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March Madness: The Long-Range Deer Cartridge Championship

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April 02, 2013

March Madness: The Long-Range Deer Cartridge Championship

By Dave Hurteau

I am just back from testing bows in Kentucky with a Norwegian and a couple of rednecks. Before I left, I checked the status of our Final Four matchups and saw that the .30-06 was flogging the life out of it’s little .25 caliber nephew—shocker—and that the .270 was inching ahead of the .300 Win. Mag.

This had me a little afraid to return. I knew that if nothing changed our long-range deer cartridge final would be a .30-06-vs.-.270 repeat of the all-purpose deer cartridge final of 2010, and that I would have to fall down dead from ennui.

It was a damned near thing. But lucky for me (if not for you), the .300 made a last-minute surge, and here I am, still standing, to present you with a championship matchup that is only half as boring as it might have been.

And so, without further buildup, it is the .30-06 vs. the .300 Win. Mag. for all the long-range deer marbles. Have at it. Vote for you preferred cartridge below to crown the Champ (and if you pick the .30-06 again, I’m going to drive to your house and steal the bolt out of your Remington 700).

Comments (57)

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from TM wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Don't blame me, I voted winmag.

BTW, I like that the sweet 16 competition is about as democratic as your average banana republic election.

You can vote for whatever candidate you want, as long as it is .300wm.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from MaxPower wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Dave, I want to know how mad Simpson is that the STW got upset in the first round.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Proverbs wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Was a mistake to have the 06 in the same quarter bracket as the 7mm mag.

Not much difference between the finalists, really. I'm talking with those who actually shoot long range, not everybody who just looks at manufacturer's ballistic charts.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dave Hurteau wrote 1 year 1 week ago

TM, and all,
Just joshing.
Vote what you like.
I won't really come to your house—not uninvited anyway...

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from hawndog wrote 1 year 1 week ago

How do I vote?

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from Chewylouie wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Dave, I have a 770, not a 700. The reason I vote 30-06 is because I have experience with it. I know it is not that accurate. I voted for the 243 (another gun I have experience with) over the 30-06, Because I know that it is more accurate. If I had shot a 300 WM, and new that it was more accurate, I would vote for that.

-5 Good Comment? | | Report
from NHshtr wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Please don't make me vote!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dave Hurteau wrote 1 year 1 week ago

You don't have to justify your choice, Chewy. I'm just busting.
This whole thing's just for fun.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tim Platt wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I've been killing deer for over 30 years and have come to the conclusion that the 30-06 is the winner every time, hands down. It has no equal.

Maybe the .300 Win Mag kills faster and shoots flatter, but an average man will not shoot the gun as well. You have to take the recoil into account, and for my money anything bigger than an ought six on deer is a waste. And really I am not very impressed with high velocity, I have shot a lot of deer with the .257 Weatherby Magnum and it is not the supercartridge Roy claims it to be.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from BigTex wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Y'all realize we're shooting DEER here, right? The rule of thumb is 800ft lbs of energy. A 22-.250 has that at 250 yards.

Now even if we go mule deer, which the title didn't stipulate, we're still talking only 1000ft lbs.

Overkill much?

The average shooter can tolerate 17ft lbs of recoil. Even if y'all are all super sized bad mamma jammas like your deer appear to be, everybody is more accurate with less recoil.

Magnumitis, and idiocy, are very much alive. Carry on.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Douglas wrote 1 year 1 week ago

So Dave, what caliber did you end up using on your nilgai hunt?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dave Hurteau wrote 1 year 1 week ago

.45-70. If I can manage to catch up on other stuff, I'll may post Part II before next season. Thanks for asking, Doug.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Outsider wrote 1 year 1 week ago

This is nothing more than a glorified popularity contest...the 2 most ballistically superior cartridges are already out of the contest...

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from richhayes wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Ballistics coefficient, bullet selection, case design all favor the 7 mm Rem Mag for the better long range for anything up to moose. Since it is out I have to go with the 300 Mag

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from John Schneider wrote 1 year 1 week ago

springfield 03, good enough for my dad, good enough for me!

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I'm an Alaskan resident and hunter. When it comes to long range (say 500 plus meters) , up mountain or down mountain or simply over a limitless stretch of tundra shots ill take my .300WM anytime. Depending on the game and location I also prefer either my .338WM or .338 Lapua. It's not that I don't have several 30.06 in the safe, I do. Just don't see them as the "all round" Carthage any longer. The .300WM for the hunting and areas I hunt in is by far the more versatil of the two. Both my Teka T3 an my Mossburg 4x4 in .300 are light, accurate an weather resistant in the extreme and made as if for Alaska alone. Both have muzzle brakes and are topped with Burris 3-9x40 Ballistic Plex optics. These are great both great cartages and I'm sure there are most likely more .06's out there hunting than .300WM. But if its distance, accuracy, and terminal knock down energy at distance this one needs to go to the .300WM.
Next time you do one of these how about just the mid range belted Magnums and Short Mags?
Bet you'd find a few points of contention an disagreement there! Any who, thumbs up to the .300 Winchester Belted Magnum!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bruce Wright wrote 1 year 1 week ago

.06 over 300 - less kickback + lighter gun = better accuracy. outside of a range! in real life! standing & aiming! From what I've seen 300M is for the "Prestige" Crowd! My Stick's bigger than ur stick, isn't a valid argument! I've seen a fellow shoot a 300M with a compres- sion load -- the hole is the target wasn't any bigger BUT he had a nice circlar scar around his eye with 6 stitches, from the scope blowing backwards and hitting him in the eye 3 times! I had to tell him to reverse the "v" mount, so the scope would stay on!! Also Convenience ! ? .06 ammo is cheaper! .06 is what 9 out of 10 guys i know use! so when U leave UR ammo @ home, or in the truck, U buddies will usually have ammo U can borrow!!! HEY MY BULLET IS BIGGER THAT UR BULLET! Why do U think my name is Single Shot??? In my teens it was a tease, now it's an honour!!!

-3 Good Comment? | | Report
from cazador1022 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

It's Ok guys. I understand that man of you don't have the ranges and space to really enjoy a .300 win mag but it is superior cartridge for long range over the 30.06.

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from Charliel wrote 1 year 1 week ago

So isn't this supposed to be a LONG RANGE competition? If so, then the only ones that should have even been in it are the WBY, the STW, the .264, the 7MM mag, the .300WM. I assume the .300 Wby was excluded since had it been there, there would be no need for a competition. A 243, a 260 and a 7mm-08 really? Did long range just get reduced to varmints at 400-500 yds? And a 3006 vs. a 300Win? Snipers have made kills out t 2000 yds with the 300. Has anyone or anything ever been killed by a 3006 at more than 1000? For all you afraid of a little recoil and complaining about cost, the better and world renouned accuracy winner in this whole lot is the .308, I'd vote for it long before the '06 and hope you did as well.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Dunderheads voted all manner of mid-range cartridges into the Sweet Sixteen. The shootout should have been between the .300 Roy, .300 Win Mag, &mm Weatherby, and 7mm STW or the 7mm rem mag. All else was poppycock.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Woops, 7mm Weatherby

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Robert Dawson wrote 1 year 1 week ago

No doubt the 300 Win Mag shoots flatter than a 30-06 can past 250 yards. But taking into account the added recoil versus holding a little higher, the 30-06 is a better choice for the average hunter. For a long range shot at deer I'd prefer the 270 over the 30-06.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from coleprice59 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

How in the heck did you know that I had a Remington 700, .30-06? . . . That's Spooky! Please don't steal my bolt (indicates how I voted even though there’s no doubt that the 300 Win Mag is the superior long range cartridge. The .30-06 is so much more pleasant to shoot).

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Charliel wrote 1 year 1 week ago

For those that are recoil shy, so put a brake on it. At the range you wear ear protection and hunting you don't hear it much or at all anyway. I use a Mtn weight .340 WBY (with a brake of course) which I might add would dust everything in this competition and is in my book superior to even the .338 Lapua (due to cost), and when hunting the only people that hear it go off are everyone else for a mile or 3. With the brake, it produces the same recoil as an '06. A good judge of a long range rifle might be one that far exceeds the better than avg shooters' capability. All the Wby's do that and of this list the 300 winch would be the only one that made the final four.

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from dempsy1 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

The .300 win mag is hands down a better "long range" cartridge, I think both are over kill for whitetail but......everybody likes bigger guns! The .300 out-preforms the 30-06 no question, it is not a matter of what most hunters shoot better but of a better round. I think the 30-30(Hornady) or a .308 are the BEST and only needed whitetail cartridges!! How many shots does the average hunter take over 200 yards? Not many and most that brag about 400 yard shots don't own a range finder!!!!!!!!! After 100-150 yards shooting becomes incredibly difficult unless practiced often. I bet most whitetail killed are shot under 100 yards. But, for this vote .300 win mag ballistically superior!(KICKS LIKE MULE!)

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I just was rereading the posts an would like to weigh in on several of the concerns noted here about he .300 WBM and the name/question of this contest.
There seems to be some confusion how the term "deer" is to be defined in concern with this contest. I presumed that " deer" in this reference meant the "Deer Family" as it was preceded by the term "Long Range". I know that many of you may not need to consider having to take a shot at ranges much greater than 150 to 200 yards max and consider that long range. In White Tail an Black Tail country I would agree. But if you consider the other members of this family Mule, Elk, Moose and for some Caribou then one starts thinking in terms of 400 an 500 meter or greater ranges.
There also seems to be a number of posts here that have misconceptions about the .300 WM. When this cartridge was first introduced along with the platforms to handle it, one heard many of the comments voiced above as well as "the gun is to heavy to carry in the field all day" . . . "The recoil is brutal" . . . "The ammo is expensive" . . . "It's to much gun except for really big game" . . . "If I wanted a cannon...." . . . Hmmmmmmm.
Well, they are lighter today then a Rem 700, look at the Tika T3 or Mossburg 4x4, . . ., recoil is reduced by a muzzle break to less than a 7mm or 30.06 that are without one and a good muzzle break is inexpensive. . .,
Ammo is still spendy but not by much more than any other large caliber . . .,
With the availability and range of factory load offerings, and/or the components for reloading this caliber may be loaded and used for any game in North America, at any range within in its capability for a one shot kill by an experienced hunter and competent shooter. . .,
Cannon? You want a cannon? Try a safari grade .475 H&H if your looking to compare any of the arguments noted here with a large caliber. That will give you perspective for sure about recoil, cost and weight to name a few.
I understand that everyone has a fav caliber and that most may never get the opportunity to hunt in places like Alaska, Africa, New Zealand and such other places where the Belted Boys, Short Mags, and Express cartridges hold court. I understand that for the most part most hunters will never shoot much beyond 250 meters or be comfortable doing so, as for most this is a long range shot. The majority will not shoot their deer rifle but a few times a year. In that case almost any of the above listed calibers are acceptable within a large portion of the lower 48 states and for the most part you will have good and productive hunts with what you know and were brought up on.
However, the question was "long range" for "Deer". Considering the deer family members and some of here corresponding sizes the .300WBM may be the best all-round for the job. It's a flat shooter, carries its energy to range and target, provides terminal impact allowing for more confident long range shots. Even in the Western States it is not uncommon to take the long shot, 350+ yd?, at a trophy Elk.
The .300 Winchester Belted Magnum deserves its place in this final head to head with the venerable 30.06. On all the levels and for all the same reasons and then some that the .06 is there in the first place.
Vote the question. I'll hunt the .300 most every time, but I won't get rid of any of my 30.06's either.

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from dws wrote 1 year 1 week ago

35 Rem, Marlin lever.

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from Hobob wrote 1 year 1 week ago

30-06 and let the dogs out when you come for the bolt, the treats are above the microwave. If it isn't broke don't fix it. Most hunters know long range is relative and most hunters relate to 200 yards or less for 99.9% of hunting situations in most areas. In fact most deer probably are harvested under 100.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 1 year 1 week ago

30-06 Long range deer.
.300 Long range elk.

dws, your comment killed me, I have a .35 Rem. and in Mo it is the best short (80yd) cartrige ever made. The deer just drop.

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from scratchgolf72 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

what is all this recoil crap? those of you who are blabbing a .300 win mag is to much recoil must turn in your man cards immediately!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from benmc68 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I'd like to see a poll of the voters and commenters who have real time in the field at 300-1000yds. The high BCs and heavy for caliber options in the 6.5mm, 7mm and .338cals are standouts, the real problem is that most people don't have/dont need one of these and they won't(didn't) get any votes. You want to know good LR cartridges, look at the leaderboard of your local benchrest/F-Class match.

I'm no LR master but I do have ethical, clean, 1 shot kills in the 400-700yd range on deer, coyotes, and pigs. I think that's the most important fact that determines "long-range hunting". Never should the allure of distance out pace your ability to be an ethical hunter.

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from shane wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Did anyone read? This is the long range bracket. Heavy/high BC bullets and plenty of powder rules here, so while I like the .280 Remington and find a 7mm STW to be short of desireable, it looks pretty stupid when the .280 wins. I swear if you put the .30-30 in here people would be voting for it. And recoil? Not an issue. Long range hunters are clearly not into walking or brush busting any more than they have to, so they shoot long, heavy rifles that negate a lot of recoil.

I'd also be a lot happier if I heard less blabber about accurate and inaccurate cartridges. There's nothing up there that can't shoot groups tighter than would even be necessary. "Inherently accurate" cartridges get out-shot by cartridges not usually known for their accuracy all the time.

You're not a real American if you don't love and own a .30-06, but the choice for winner should clearly be the Winchester. Hence the Springfield winning. There's the internet in a nutshell.

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from shane wrote 1 year 1 week ago

If I became obese, lazy, smelly and loud, or stopped considering hunting a challenge and a source of food and just thought of it as source of thrills via blasting an animal from farther away than it has a chance of sensing itself being hunted, I would choose a .270 WSM or 7mm Remington. .300 is a bit more than you need unless you're grossly into seeing how far away you can kill something, and at that point you might as well have a .338 RUM or something completely ridiculous.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gem Gram wrote 1 year 1 week ago

An old Master gunsmith named John Le Bout and I often laugh about our toys. We both agree that if they had stopped in 1903 with what became the 30-06 we really would not have missed having anything else. Of course each of us has at least one of every caliber in that final 16 plus a few more. Still every thing we have done on deer with any caliber could easily have been accomplished with that same 30-06. All the rest are just our toys that we love to play with. I have taken deer with several caliber guns but quite honestly NOTHING has ever killed a whitetail for me any better than a 150 grains from a 30-06. I have sot deer that kept running with a 300 Weatherby and several other calibers, but EVERY deer I have ever shot with that 30-06 dropped like he was swatted with a magical flyswatter.

The most accurate rifles I have ever shot were a 25-06 and a 7MM08. But they certainly have not seemed to have the same impact on deer. I also have a totally 100% custom heavy barreled 7MM08, will shoot a .25 MOA. Still does not drop deer like that 06. Same with a total custom 260 Rem. Of course I am a little partial to the 7MM Remmy Mag. I love all that ballistic stuff and my 3 or 4 of them really do shoot great, but if I had to pick among my rifles when I absolutely wanted to kill a whitetail at 500 to 700 yards then I really would grab one of those 30-06's

So Old John and I would seem to be correct. You can kill deer at fair distance with all sorts of things, but NOTHING will kill them any deader than that caliber that came along over 100 years ago. We really could have stopped at that time and only missed our many toys we still love to play with, but don't really NEED. :-)

Besides, that was the caliber that Carlos took all those kills in Vietnam with and some of those were out there at the 1000 yard distance. I have six or seven of them that are damn accurate and a dozen or so that are only MOD or MOM accurate. (That is "Moment of Deer" and "Moment of Man" accurate.

Gem Gram

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from mike0714 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I agree with benmc68 6.5mm, 7mm, .284, .338, and 30mags are long range hunting rounds. you will almost never see a 30-06 in a F class competition, or on hunts for sheep, Mountain Goats, or Coues deer. Heck you don't often hear about people hunting antelope with a 30-06 any more. yes most of these rounds have more recoil than a 30-06 but once you adjust to the recoil or if recoil does not bother you long range shooting and doping wind become much easier.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Even though it's a hell of a cartridge, I can't stand the 30-06, and these kind of pointless comparisons add to my dislike. The real championship should have been between the 7mm Rem and the 300 Win.

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from Drew McClure wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I would like to take this moment to invite you to the "Calibers that win wars" forum aka "Pre-64 Model 70 30-06 fan club" or you can join "Ought-6 cheaters Anonymous", but please avoid any references to ballistic tables, bullet coefficients, muzzle velocity, drop over 100 yard increments, any of that other data that means little to double lung shot deer with no medical insurance.Just remember if aint broke, don't fix it. Cheers to 3,350 voters all with the ability to justify just about anything.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Levi Rogers wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I've carried the .300 win mag. in Rem. 700 since I was 13 years old. 6 years ago I broke my neck so I had a muzzlebreak put on. I'm 43 now I have 30-06 same model that is a very nice rifle. The .300 has better OPTICS so it is the better long range rifle. Optics are as important as anything else. Remember that.

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from fng wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Sweet Odin, guys. This isn't a "what works" thread.

You don't get asked "Hey, what do you think is a fancy sportscar?" and say "F*** sportscars! MY toyota gets me to work in the morning!"

As to the .300 being beastly, granted, I've shot 100 rounds of .300 in a sitting, unbraked. I've done the same with the brake on it. It is not for a 12 year old or your 90 pound sister/gf/wife/grandmother.

But if you can't stomach a pop to the shoulder, and a little muzzle blast, how are you going to handle walking 30 miles in a day, up ridges and nastiness? and even if you do, how then do you walk back with an 800 pound elk? or even dragging a 200 pound deer?

Where I live, south-central Alberta, I do, indeed, have a general rifle (a 6.5x55 that flies pretty nice to 400). However, once my Manners stock gets in, I am strapping my .300 plus scope, bipod, monopod, and match trigger, to my back, and going up the side of a goddamn mountain. Why? I'd rather power through a calf burn and have the materials to put a 210 or 208 or 200 grain VLD hunting bullet into something's boilermaker at ANY range. It needs to drop whitetail, possibly muley, elk or moose.

And as I am in grizzly/cougar/black bear country, I need it to be able to punch into a grizzlies' shoulder and break it and into vitals, yet light enough that a smaller predator charge won't overwhelm me.

Don't vote for a smartcar JUST BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY CAR YOU FEEL YOU, in particular, NEED. VOTE FOR THE QUESTION ASKED.

I'd give 2 cents for some of your thoughts, but most of em don't seem to be worth a wet fart and a dry spit.

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from habben97 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

30-06 is not the best long rang deer cartridge.

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from Drew McClure wrote 1 year 1 week ago

If it aint broke, fix it better, anyhow. I prefer the "7mm voodoo McClure wildcat" which kills whitetails at 6 miles DRT.

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from W. Mathew Drumm wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I like my Tikka T3 in .308, pushing Sierra 168 gr. BTHP. Is it the ideal cartridge for all conditions, ranges,etc.? Of course not. I can I make damned good use of it, at the ranges I'm comfortable shooting at? You better believe it. To contend that there is one cartridge best for deer regardless of who's behind the trigger or what it is they're shooting is in MHO kind of pointless and betrays a lack of understanding as it pertains to hunters of different age, size, gender, etc. In an earlier thread about MSR's someone put their foot in their mouth contending that the .223 is not a legitimate hunting round, and of little use for deer. In places like Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi it's plenty of round for the wiry bucks they grow there. Would it work as well on a big cold-weather hardwood forest-dwelling antlered hog in Illinois, Ohio or my home state of Pennsylvania? Probably not. The round that best suits the rifle and the person using it is best as far as I'm concerned.

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from benmc68 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

"I swear if you put the .30-30 in here people would be voting for it." -Shane
Shane, you sir have won the Internet! Hahahahahahaha!

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from Ranx wrote 1 year 1 week ago

How about when the contest is over you take the numbers one of the guys quoted and check them against the various rifle, barrel length, ammunition possibilities.

Find the combination that stays under 17 ft lb. of recoil, delivers 800 lb. of knock down power, and does it at the longest distance with as little drop as possible.

You could even standardize on a certain weight and barrel length in the rifle to even it out. Those who argue that certain calibers are preferable due to the large assortment of ammunition loadings would have that advantage included as the best round to achieve those goals could be selected. Those calibers with fewer choices would be more constrained.

At least you could get some semblance of objectivity.

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from mike0714 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

People seem to believe this is a what gun you hunt with thing but it is what gun does the job best thing. An example is sure you can drag race in a stock 1960's Volkswagen bug but I think everyone here who wants to win would choose a Bugatti, McLaren F, Aston Martin, Lambo, or Ferrari(or any other super car). It is the same with a 30-06 it can take deer at long range but it is not a "super car" it is a chevy or ford truck wide spread, good and reliable but not amazing in anything other that reliability and dependability . The 30-06 is a great hunting round just not the best for long range. Long range round usually have a BC of .5 or better while the 30-06 is right around .4-.45 with the highest quality rounds money can buy being roughly .55(with a muzzle volicty of about 2650fps), long range rounds usually have a muzzle velocity of 2,800 or better. 7mm rounds have coefficients of .65 and muzzle velocities around 2900fps, .300 mags are .5-.55 with velocities of 3100+. My .284 WIN shoots a 175gr spitzer boat tail with a ballistic coefficient of roughly .6 at 2950 with a hot hand load. This is a pretty common setup for long range hunting and competitions(or a similar setup).

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

This is to much fun! I've been waking up in the morning and reading the new posts even before I have a cup of coffee in my hand. Very entertaining! Some replyes . . . :
BEMMC68 : I for one hunt often in the 300 to 600 meter envelope, I practice at it as well the year round with the rifles I hunt with both on the range and in open field practice conditions. That's mostly the .300 and .338 WBM's I have never competed in F class and should look into that, does anyone know if there is a group in Alaska? I have always enjoyed extreme long range shooting, and the development of bullets and loadings for such calibers as .338 Lapua, .50 BMG, and the marvel of them all the .416 Barret. It's great fun designing then lathing solid brass or hard copper projectiles to see what BC's and accurate distances may be accomplished with these monsters. I would not presume to call myself an "LR master" as that is not for me to determine, it sounds a little Zen to me and I'm passed the age of being addressed as "Grasshopper". I am a competent and accomplished LR hunter and work at to stay that way. In the environments and at the ranges I hunt I work hard for the clean,clear unobstructed shooting window to archive clean kills. I concur 100% with your ethics of fair hunt and one shot kills. Maybe this contest was to wide in the net that was cast? Maybe next time say . . Cartages for mid and small deers, White Tail or smaller might cut out some of the sniveling. Just a thought.
LEVI ROGERS: I think its a fact that if you grow up with a thing it becomes second nature! My first big bore was a 1903A3 still in the cosmolean from an NRA buy for like $20. My dad got it for me for my 13th birthday with 4 boxes of 185gr SPBT's, still have it. It was responsible for a lot of meat over the years and reminded in its MilSec configuration to this day. Didn't get my first .300 till I was 15 and that changed my hunting world! The .300WBM is a winner.
OL KRUSTY : Think your right. This is all kinda silly but a good read in the morning all the same! 7mm vs .300 would be a fairer comparison for the LR cartages.
SHANE: 30-30. Indeed!! It an maybe the .22 have perhaps taken more game including deer than all the other combined! . . . . . 30-30! LMAO. YOU WIN!
Second cup of coffee is gone, the iPad has been wiped off from coffee spray after laughing so hard and red flag is up an I'm off to my shop and range motivated by a good morning read!

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Hey Scott and Dave,
I'm trying to figure out what the best description for this MMLRDC contest is, its down to. . .
" Opppssss, we really stepped in it this time!"
Or
" Hey Scott!, Yeah Dave? Can you give me a hand getting these worms back in the can!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thank for the daily dose!

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Hey Scott and Dave,
I'm trying to figure out what the best description for this MMLRDC contest is, its down to. . .
" Opppssss, we really stepped in it this time!"
Or
" Hey Scott!, Yeah Dave? Can you give me a hand getting these worms back in the can!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thank for the daily dose!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 1 week ago

No dought the '06 is a fine deer rifle; it is what I use most of the time. But how many people given the opertunity to sit on a gas line where you can see for what seems like miles, would pick up the old trusty '06 in favor of a heavy barreled 300 Win.

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from rjhickson wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Darn I don't have a Remington 700 yet!!!!

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from dws wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I thought of another one, the 45-70 if you get the trajectory right.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 1 week ago

To all of the shooters on the recoil bandwagon. If recoil is the biggest reason to vote for the 06, then how in the hell do you justify the 06 beating the 7mm Rem?

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from PAtroutbum wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I'd be quite happy with either rounds as I have rifles in each cartridge. HOWEVER, if we're talking LONG RANGE anything, I'm taking the 300 win over the 'ol thutty-06. Check out any ballistics program and the win mag is simply a flatter shooting round. That's not to say that someone could easily out shoot me with an 06. PS, ask any bench rest shooter which is the more inherently accurate cartridge. In my opinion the real discussion would be among the .257 wby, 7mm Rem, 264, 270wsm, 7stm and the .284 norma of which I'd take the 270 wsm for the simple reason of just because.

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from Chris338378 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Talk about completely mismatched competitors. Who in their right mind would put a .257 Roberts against a .257 Weatherby Magnum or a .30-06 against a .243 Winchester for examples. To me the pairs should've been more equal since such mismatches would all but guarantee the larger caliber a win. Why not put say a .300 Weatherby Magnum against a .300 H&H or even a .338 Winchester, now that would be an even match. Nice try but lacks the attention to detail and validity if you ask me.

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from Carl Good wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I have been in the military for 17 years and I once was the head of there sniper program and you keep asking how many guys have made a shot at a 1,000 yards. Well I made a shot on a animal that was not a deer in Laos that was ranged at 1,983 meters with my own custom made 30-06 with hand loads that were at there maximum. Firing a Sierra match king 168grain HPBT.
And it only took one shot for the animal to fall dead. So I will stick with my 30-06. If I need further range then I will move up to the 338 Lapula. But I feel a 300 WSM Is way over kill for a white tail deer. Plus like a lot of the others have said its a lot easier to get good 30-06 factory or hand loads than it is 300 WSM. That should be enough said.
Carl Good

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from dws wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Say what you want, speed goat at 827 yards with a 7mm Rem, that works for me. Bigger then 300RUM.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Carl Good,
1983 meters with a 168gr match bullet out of a 06 ? I call BS. Besides, this contest isn't about a rifle being used as a sniper or target round, its about regular rifles with regular optics, using a cartridge that maximizes hold over. Not a $3000 sniper rifle with a $2000 scope with 100 MOA of adjustment to compensate for bullet drop out to 2000 meters.

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from Tim Platt wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I've been killing deer for over 30 years and have come to the conclusion that the 30-06 is the winner every time, hands down. It has no equal.

Maybe the .300 Win Mag kills faster and shoots flatter, but an average man will not shoot the gun as well. You have to take the recoil into account, and for my money anything bigger than an ought six on deer is a waste. And really I am not very impressed with high velocity, I have shot a lot of deer with the .257 Weatherby Magnum and it is not the supercartridge Roy claims it to be.

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from TM wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Don't blame me, I voted winmag.

BTW, I like that the sweet 16 competition is about as democratic as your average banana republic election.

You can vote for whatever candidate you want, as long as it is .300wm.

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from scratchgolf72 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

what is all this recoil crap? those of you who are blabbing a .300 win mag is to much recoil must turn in your man cards immediately!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Dunderheads voted all manner of mid-range cartridges into the Sweet Sixteen. The shootout should have been between the .300 Roy, .300 Win Mag, &mm Weatherby, and 7mm STW or the 7mm rem mag. All else was poppycock.

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from Proverbs wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Was a mistake to have the 06 in the same quarter bracket as the 7mm mag.

Not much difference between the finalists, really. I'm talking with those who actually shoot long range, not everybody who just looks at manufacturer's ballistic charts.

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from benmc68 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I'd like to see a poll of the voters and commenters who have real time in the field at 300-1000yds. The high BCs and heavy for caliber options in the 6.5mm, 7mm and .338cals are standouts, the real problem is that most people don't have/dont need one of these and they won't(didn't) get any votes. You want to know good LR cartridges, look at the leaderboard of your local benchrest/F-Class match.

I'm no LR master but I do have ethical, clean, 1 shot kills in the 400-700yd range on deer, coyotes, and pigs. I think that's the most important fact that determines "long-range hunting". Never should the allure of distance out pace your ability to be an ethical hunter.

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from shane wrote 1 year 1 week ago

If I became obese, lazy, smelly and loud, or stopped considering hunting a challenge and a source of food and just thought of it as source of thrills via blasting an animal from farther away than it has a chance of sensing itself being hunted, I would choose a .270 WSM or 7mm Remington. .300 is a bit more than you need unless you're grossly into seeing how far away you can kill something, and at that point you might as well have a .338 RUM or something completely ridiculous.

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from richhayes wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Ballistics coefficient, bullet selection, case design all favor the 7 mm Rem Mag for the better long range for anything up to moose. Since it is out I have to go with the 300 Mag

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from BigTex wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Y'all realize we're shooting DEER here, right? The rule of thumb is 800ft lbs of energy. A 22-.250 has that at 250 yards.

Now even if we go mule deer, which the title didn't stipulate, we're still talking only 1000ft lbs.

Overkill much?

The average shooter can tolerate 17ft lbs of recoil. Even if y'all are all super sized bad mamma jammas like your deer appear to be, everybody is more accurate with less recoil.

Magnumitis, and idiocy, are very much alive. Carry on.

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from Douglas wrote 1 year 1 week ago

So Dave, what caliber did you end up using on your nilgai hunt?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Woops, 7mm Weatherby

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from shane wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Did anyone read? This is the long range bracket. Heavy/high BC bullets and plenty of powder rules here, so while I like the .280 Remington and find a 7mm STW to be short of desireable, it looks pretty stupid when the .280 wins. I swear if you put the .30-30 in here people would be voting for it. And recoil? Not an issue. Long range hunters are clearly not into walking or brush busting any more than they have to, so they shoot long, heavy rifles that negate a lot of recoil.

I'd also be a lot happier if I heard less blabber about accurate and inaccurate cartridges. There's nothing up there that can't shoot groups tighter than would even be necessary. "Inherently accurate" cartridges get out-shot by cartridges not usually known for their accuracy all the time.

You're not a real American if you don't love and own a .30-06, but the choice for winner should clearly be the Winchester. Hence the Springfield winning. There's the internet in a nutshell.

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from fng wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Sweet Odin, guys. This isn't a "what works" thread.

You don't get asked "Hey, what do you think is a fancy sportscar?" and say "F*** sportscars! MY toyota gets me to work in the morning!"

As to the .300 being beastly, granted, I've shot 100 rounds of .300 in a sitting, unbraked. I've done the same with the brake on it. It is not for a 12 year old or your 90 pound sister/gf/wife/grandmother.

But if you can't stomach a pop to the shoulder, and a little muzzle blast, how are you going to handle walking 30 miles in a day, up ridges and nastiness? and even if you do, how then do you walk back with an 800 pound elk? or even dragging a 200 pound deer?

Where I live, south-central Alberta, I do, indeed, have a general rifle (a 6.5x55 that flies pretty nice to 400). However, once my Manners stock gets in, I am strapping my .300 plus scope, bipod, monopod, and match trigger, to my back, and going up the side of a goddamn mountain. Why? I'd rather power through a calf burn and have the materials to put a 210 or 208 or 200 grain VLD hunting bullet into something's boilermaker at ANY range. It needs to drop whitetail, possibly muley, elk or moose.

And as I am in grizzly/cougar/black bear country, I need it to be able to punch into a grizzlies' shoulder and break it and into vitals, yet light enough that a smaller predator charge won't overwhelm me.

Don't vote for a smartcar JUST BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY CAR YOU FEEL YOU, in particular, NEED. VOTE FOR THE QUESTION ASKED.

I'd give 2 cents for some of your thoughts, but most of em don't seem to be worth a wet fart and a dry spit.

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I'm an Alaskan resident and hunter. When it comes to long range (say 500 plus meters) , up mountain or down mountain or simply over a limitless stretch of tundra shots ill take my .300WM anytime. Depending on the game and location I also prefer either my .338WM or .338 Lapua. It's not that I don't have several 30.06 in the safe, I do. Just don't see them as the "all round" Carthage any longer. The .300WM for the hunting and areas I hunt in is by far the more versatil of the two. Both my Teka T3 an my Mossburg 4x4 in .300 are light, accurate an weather resistant in the extreme and made as if for Alaska alone. Both have muzzle brakes and are topped with Burris 3-9x40 Ballistic Plex optics. These are great both great cartages and I'm sure there are most likely more .06's out there hunting than .300WM. But if its distance, accuracy, and terminal knock down energy at distance this one needs to go to the .300WM.
Next time you do one of these how about just the mid range belted Magnums and Short Mags?
Bet you'd find a few points of contention an disagreement there! Any who, thumbs up to the .300 Winchester Belted Magnum!

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from habben97 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

30-06 is not the best long rang deer cartridge.

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from dws wrote 1 year 1 week ago

35 Rem, Marlin lever.

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from dws wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Say what you want, speed goat at 827 yards with a 7mm Rem, that works for me. Bigger then 300RUM.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 1 week ago

To all of the shooters on the recoil bandwagon. If recoil is the biggest reason to vote for the 06, then how in the hell do you justify the 06 beating the 7mm Rem?

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from Ranx wrote 1 year 1 week ago

How about when the contest is over you take the numbers one of the guys quoted and check them against the various rifle, barrel length, ammunition possibilities.

Find the combination that stays under 17 ft lb. of recoil, delivers 800 lb. of knock down power, and does it at the longest distance with as little drop as possible.

You could even standardize on a certain weight and barrel length in the rifle to even it out. Those who argue that certain calibers are preferable due to the large assortment of ammunition loadings would have that advantage included as the best round to achieve those goals could be selected. Those calibers with fewer choices would be more constrained.

At least you could get some semblance of objectivity.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 1 year 1 week ago

30-06 Long range deer.
.300 Long range elk.

dws, your comment killed me, I have a .35 Rem. and in Mo it is the best short (80yd) cartrige ever made. The deer just drop.

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from MaxPower wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Dave, I want to know how mad Simpson is that the STW got upset in the first round.

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from Outsider wrote 1 year 1 week ago

This is nothing more than a glorified popularity contest...the 2 most ballistically superior cartridges are already out of the contest...

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from Hobob wrote 1 year 1 week ago

30-06 and let the dogs out when you come for the bolt, the treats are above the microwave. If it isn't broke don't fix it. Most hunters know long range is relative and most hunters relate to 200 yards or less for 99.9% of hunting situations in most areas. In fact most deer probably are harvested under 100.

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from Drew McClure wrote 1 year 1 week ago

If it aint broke, fix it better, anyhow. I prefer the "7mm voodoo McClure wildcat" which kills whitetails at 6 miles DRT.

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from Dave Hurteau wrote 1 year 1 week ago

TM, and all,
Just joshing.
Vote what you like.
I won't really come to your house—not uninvited anyway...

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from Dave Hurteau wrote 1 year 1 week ago

You don't have to justify your choice, Chewy. I'm just busting.
This whole thing's just for fun.

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from Dave Hurteau wrote 1 year 1 week ago

.45-70. If I can manage to catch up on other stuff, I'll may post Part II before next season. Thanks for asking, Doug.

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from Chris338378 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Talk about completely mismatched competitors. Who in their right mind would put a .257 Roberts against a .257 Weatherby Magnum or a .30-06 against a .243 Winchester for examples. To me the pairs should've been more equal since such mismatches would all but guarantee the larger caliber a win. Why not put say a .300 Weatherby Magnum against a .300 H&H or even a .338 Winchester, now that would be an even match. Nice try but lacks the attention to detail and validity if you ask me.

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from Charliel wrote 1 year 1 week ago

So isn't this supposed to be a LONG RANGE competition? If so, then the only ones that should have even been in it are the WBY, the STW, the .264, the 7MM mag, the .300WM. I assume the .300 Wby was excluded since had it been there, there would be no need for a competition. A 243, a 260 and a 7mm-08 really? Did long range just get reduced to varmints at 400-500 yds? And a 3006 vs. a 300Win? Snipers have made kills out t 2000 yds with the 300. Has anyone or anything ever been killed by a 3006 at more than 1000? For all you afraid of a little recoil and complaining about cost, the better and world renouned accuracy winner in this whole lot is the .308, I'd vote for it long before the '06 and hope you did as well.

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from Charliel wrote 1 year 1 week ago

For those that are recoil shy, so put a brake on it. At the range you wear ear protection and hunting you don't hear it much or at all anyway. I use a Mtn weight .340 WBY (with a brake of course) which I might add would dust everything in this competition and is in my book superior to even the .338 Lapua (due to cost), and when hunting the only people that hear it go off are everyone else for a mile or 3. With the brake, it produces the same recoil as an '06. A good judge of a long range rifle might be one that far exceeds the better than avg shooters' capability. All the Wby's do that and of this list the 300 winch would be the only one that made the final four.

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from NHshtr wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Please don't make me vote!!

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from cazador1022 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

It's Ok guys. I understand that man of you don't have the ranges and space to really enjoy a .300 win mag but it is superior cartridge for long range over the 30.06.

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I just was rereading the posts an would like to weigh in on several of the concerns noted here about he .300 WBM and the name/question of this contest.
There seems to be some confusion how the term "deer" is to be defined in concern with this contest. I presumed that " deer" in this reference meant the "Deer Family" as it was preceded by the term "Long Range". I know that many of you may not need to consider having to take a shot at ranges much greater than 150 to 200 yards max and consider that long range. In White Tail an Black Tail country I would agree. But if you consider the other members of this family Mule, Elk, Moose and for some Caribou then one starts thinking in terms of 400 an 500 meter or greater ranges.
There also seems to be a number of posts here that have misconceptions about the .300 WM. When this cartridge was first introduced along with the platforms to handle it, one heard many of the comments voiced above as well as "the gun is to heavy to carry in the field all day" . . . "The recoil is brutal" . . . "The ammo is expensive" . . . "It's to much gun except for really big game" . . . "If I wanted a cannon...." . . . Hmmmmmmm.
Well, they are lighter today then a Rem 700, look at the Tika T3 or Mossburg 4x4, . . ., recoil is reduced by a muzzle break to less than a 7mm or 30.06 that are without one and a good muzzle break is inexpensive. . .,
Ammo is still spendy but not by much more than any other large caliber . . .,
With the availability and range of factory load offerings, and/or the components for reloading this caliber may be loaded and used for any game in North America, at any range within in its capability for a one shot kill by an experienced hunter and competent shooter. . .,
Cannon? You want a cannon? Try a safari grade .475 H&H if your looking to compare any of the arguments noted here with a large caliber. That will give you perspective for sure about recoil, cost and weight to name a few.
I understand that everyone has a fav caliber and that most may never get the opportunity to hunt in places like Alaska, Africa, New Zealand and such other places where the Belted Boys, Short Mags, and Express cartridges hold court. I understand that for the most part most hunters will never shoot much beyond 250 meters or be comfortable doing so, as for most this is a long range shot. The majority will not shoot their deer rifle but a few times a year. In that case almost any of the above listed calibers are acceptable within a large portion of the lower 48 states and for the most part you will have good and productive hunts with what you know and were brought up on.
However, the question was "long range" for "Deer". Considering the deer family members and some of here corresponding sizes the .300WBM may be the best all-round for the job. It's a flat shooter, carries its energy to range and target, provides terminal impact allowing for more confident long range shots. Even in the Western States it is not uncommon to take the long shot, 350+ yd?, at a trophy Elk.
The .300 Winchester Belted Magnum deserves its place in this final head to head with the venerable 30.06. On all the levels and for all the same reasons and then some that the .06 is there in the first place.
Vote the question. I'll hunt the .300 most every time, but I won't get rid of any of my 30.06's either.

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Hey Scott and Dave,
I'm trying to figure out what the best description for this MMLRDC contest is, its down to. . .
" Opppssss, we really stepped in it this time!"
Or
" Hey Scott!, Yeah Dave? Can you give me a hand getting these worms back in the can!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thank for the daily dose!

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Hey Scott and Dave,
I'm trying to figure out what the best description for this MMLRDC contest is, its down to. . .
" Opppssss, we really stepped in it this time!"
Or
" Hey Scott!, Yeah Dave? Can you give me a hand getting these worms back in the can!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thank for the daily dose!

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from dws wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I thought of another one, the 45-70 if you get the trajectory right.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Even though it's a hell of a cartridge, I can't stand the 30-06, and these kind of pointless comparisons add to my dislike. The real championship should have been between the 7mm Rem and the 300 Win.

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from Ol Krusty wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Carl Good,
1983 meters with a 168gr match bullet out of a 06 ? I call BS. Besides, this contest isn't about a rifle being used as a sniper or target round, its about regular rifles with regular optics, using a cartridge that maximizes hold over. Not a $3000 sniper rifle with a $2000 scope with 100 MOA of adjustment to compensate for bullet drop out to 2000 meters.

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from hawndog wrote 1 year 1 week ago

How do I vote?

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from hawndog wrote 1 year 1 week ago

No dought the '06 is a fine deer rifle; it is what I use most of the time. But how many people given the opertunity to sit on a gas line where you can see for what seems like miles, would pick up the old trusty '06 in favor of a heavy barreled 300 Win.

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from PAtroutbum wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I'd be quite happy with either rounds as I have rifles in each cartridge. HOWEVER, if we're talking LONG RANGE anything, I'm taking the 300 win over the 'ol thutty-06. Check out any ballistics program and the win mag is simply a flatter shooting round. That's not to say that someone could easily out shoot me with an 06. PS, ask any bench rest shooter which is the more inherently accurate cartridge. In my opinion the real discussion would be among the .257 wby, 7mm Rem, 264, 270wsm, 7stm and the .284 norma of which I'd take the 270 wsm for the simple reason of just because.

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from mike0714 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I agree with benmc68 6.5mm, 7mm, .284, .338, and 30mags are long range hunting rounds. you will almost never see a 30-06 in a F class competition, or on hunts for sheep, Mountain Goats, or Coues deer. Heck you don't often hear about people hunting antelope with a 30-06 any more. yes most of these rounds have more recoil than a 30-06 but once you adjust to the recoil or if recoil does not bother you long range shooting and doping wind become much easier.

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from mike0714 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

People seem to believe this is a what gun you hunt with thing but it is what gun does the job best thing. An example is sure you can drag race in a stock 1960's Volkswagen bug but I think everyone here who wants to win would choose a Bugatti, McLaren F, Aston Martin, Lambo, or Ferrari(or any other super car). It is the same with a 30-06 it can take deer at long range but it is not a "super car" it is a chevy or ford truck wide spread, good and reliable but not amazing in anything other that reliability and dependability . The 30-06 is a great hunting round just not the best for long range. Long range round usually have a BC of .5 or better while the 30-06 is right around .4-.45 with the highest quality rounds money can buy being roughly .55(with a muzzle volicty of about 2650fps), long range rounds usually have a muzzle velocity of 2,800 or better. 7mm rounds have coefficients of .65 and muzzle velocities around 2900fps, .300 mags are .5-.55 with velocities of 3100+. My .284 WIN shoots a 175gr spitzer boat tail with a ballistic coefficient of roughly .6 at 2950 with a hot hand load. This is a pretty common setup for long range hunting and competitions(or a similar setup).

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from rjhickson wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Darn I don't have a Remington 700 yet!!!!

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from Gem Gram wrote 1 year 1 week ago

An old Master gunsmith named John Le Bout and I often laugh about our toys. We both agree that if they had stopped in 1903 with what became the 30-06 we really would not have missed having anything else. Of course each of us has at least one of every caliber in that final 16 plus a few more. Still every thing we have done on deer with any caliber could easily have been accomplished with that same 30-06. All the rest are just our toys that we love to play with. I have taken deer with several caliber guns but quite honestly NOTHING has ever killed a whitetail for me any better than a 150 grains from a 30-06. I have sot deer that kept running with a 300 Weatherby and several other calibers, but EVERY deer I have ever shot with that 30-06 dropped like he was swatted with a magical flyswatter.

The most accurate rifles I have ever shot were a 25-06 and a 7MM08. But they certainly have not seemed to have the same impact on deer. I also have a totally 100% custom heavy barreled 7MM08, will shoot a .25 MOA. Still does not drop deer like that 06. Same with a total custom 260 Rem. Of course I am a little partial to the 7MM Remmy Mag. I love all that ballistic stuff and my 3 or 4 of them really do shoot great, but if I had to pick among my rifles when I absolutely wanted to kill a whitetail at 500 to 700 yards then I really would grab one of those 30-06's

So Old John and I would seem to be correct. You can kill deer at fair distance with all sorts of things, but NOTHING will kill them any deader than that caliber that came along over 100 years ago. We really could have stopped at that time and only missed our many toys we still love to play with, but don't really NEED. :-)

Besides, that was the caliber that Carlos took all those kills in Vietnam with and some of those were out there at the 1000 yard distance. I have six or seven of them that are damn accurate and a dozen or so that are only MOD or MOM accurate. (That is "Moment of Deer" and "Moment of Man" accurate.

Gem Gram

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from dempsy1 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

The .300 win mag is hands down a better "long range" cartridge, I think both are over kill for whitetail but......everybody likes bigger guns! The .300 out-preforms the 30-06 no question, it is not a matter of what most hunters shoot better but of a better round. I think the 30-30(Hornady) or a .308 are the BEST and only needed whitetail cartridges!! How many shots does the average hunter take over 200 yards? Not many and most that brag about 400 yard shots don't own a range finder!!!!!!!!! After 100-150 yards shooting becomes incredibly difficult unless practiced often. I bet most whitetail killed are shot under 100 yards. But, for this vote .300 win mag ballistically superior!(KICKS LIKE MULE!)

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from W. Mathew Drumm wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I like my Tikka T3 in .308, pushing Sierra 168 gr. BTHP. Is it the ideal cartridge for all conditions, ranges,etc.? Of course not. I can I make damned good use of it, at the ranges I'm comfortable shooting at? You better believe it. To contend that there is one cartridge best for deer regardless of who's behind the trigger or what it is they're shooting is in MHO kind of pointless and betrays a lack of understanding as it pertains to hunters of different age, size, gender, etc. In an earlier thread about MSR's someone put their foot in their mouth contending that the .223 is not a legitimate hunting round, and of little use for deer. In places like Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi it's plenty of round for the wiry bucks they grow there. Would it work as well on a big cold-weather hardwood forest-dwelling antlered hog in Illinois, Ohio or my home state of Pennsylvania? Probably not. The round that best suits the rifle and the person using it is best as far as I'm concerned.

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from benmc68 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

"I swear if you put the .30-30 in here people would be voting for it." -Shane
Shane, you sir have won the Internet! Hahahahahahaha!

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from Levi Rogers wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I've carried the .300 win mag. in Rem. 700 since I was 13 years old. 6 years ago I broke my neck so I had a muzzlebreak put on. I'm 43 now I have 30-06 same model that is a very nice rifle. The .300 has better OPTICS so it is the better long range rifle. Optics are as important as anything else. Remember that.

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from Drew McClure wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I would like to take this moment to invite you to the "Calibers that win wars" forum aka "Pre-64 Model 70 30-06 fan club" or you can join "Ought-6 cheaters Anonymous", but please avoid any references to ballistic tables, bullet coefficients, muzzle velocity, drop over 100 yard increments, any of that other data that means little to double lung shot deer with no medical insurance.Just remember if aint broke, don't fix it. Cheers to 3,350 voters all with the ability to justify just about anything.

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from John Schneider wrote 1 year 1 week ago

springfield 03, good enough for my dad, good enough for me!

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from Robert Dawson wrote 1 year 1 week ago

No doubt the 300 Win Mag shoots flatter than a 30-06 can past 250 yards. But taking into account the added recoil versus holding a little higher, the 30-06 is a better choice for the average hunter. For a long range shot at deer I'd prefer the 270 over the 30-06.

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from pcspecht wrote 1 year 1 week ago

This is to much fun! I've been waking up in the morning and reading the new posts even before I have a cup of coffee in my hand. Very entertaining! Some replyes . . . :
BEMMC68 : I for one hunt often in the 300 to 600 meter envelope, I practice at it as well the year round with the rifles I hunt with both on the range and in open field practice conditions. That's mostly the .300 and .338 WBM's I have never competed in F class and should look into that, does anyone know if there is a group in Alaska? I have always enjoyed extreme long range shooting, and the development of bullets and loadings for such calibers as .338 Lapua, .50 BMG, and the marvel of them all the .416 Barret. It's great fun designing then lathing solid brass or hard copper projectiles to see what BC's and accurate distances may be accomplished with these monsters. I would not presume to call myself an "LR master" as that is not for me to determine, it sounds a little Zen to me and I'm passed the age of being addressed as "Grasshopper". I am a competent and accomplished LR hunter and work at to stay that way. In the environments and at the ranges I hunt I work hard for the clean,clear unobstructed shooting window to archive clean kills. I concur 100% with your ethics of fair hunt and one shot kills. Maybe this contest was to wide in the net that was cast? Maybe next time say . . Cartages for mid and small deers, White Tail or smaller might cut out some of the sniveling. Just a thought.
LEVI ROGERS: I think its a fact that if you grow up with a thing it becomes second nature! My first big bore was a 1903A3 still in the cosmolean from an NRA buy for like $20. My dad got it for me for my 13th birthday with 4 boxes of 185gr SPBT's, still have it. It was responsible for a lot of meat over the years and reminded in its MilSec configuration to this day. Didn't get my first .300 till I was 15 and that changed my hunting world! The .300WBM is a winner.
OL KRUSTY : Think your right. This is all kinda silly but a good read in the morning all the same! 7mm vs .300 would be a fairer comparison for the LR cartages.
SHANE: 30-30. Indeed!! It an maybe the .22 have perhaps taken more game including deer than all the other combined! . . . . . 30-30! LMAO. YOU WIN!
Second cup of coffee is gone, the iPad has been wiped off from coffee spray after laughing so hard and red flag is up an I'm off to my shop and range motivated by a good morning read!

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from Carl Good wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I have been in the military for 17 years and I once was the head of there sniper program and you keep asking how many guys have made a shot at a 1,000 yards. Well I made a shot on a animal that was not a deer in Laos that was ranged at 1,983 meters with my own custom made 30-06 with hand loads that were at there maximum. Firing a Sierra match king 168grain HPBT.
And it only took one shot for the animal to fall dead. So I will stick with my 30-06. If I need further range then I will move up to the 338 Lapula. But I feel a 300 WSM Is way over kill for a white tail deer. Plus like a lot of the others have said its a lot easier to get good 30-06 factory or hand loads than it is 300 WSM. That should be enough said.
Carl Good

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from coleprice59 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

How in the heck did you know that I had a Remington 700, .30-06? . . . That's Spooky! Please don't steal my bolt (indicates how I voted even though there’s no doubt that the 300 Win Mag is the superior long range cartridge. The .30-06 is so much more pleasant to shoot).

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from Bruce Wright wrote 1 year 1 week ago

.06 over 300 - less kickback + lighter gun = better accuracy. outside of a range! in real life! standing & aiming! From what I've seen 300M is for the "Prestige" Crowd! My Stick's bigger than ur stick, isn't a valid argument! I've seen a fellow shoot a 300M with a compres- sion load -- the hole is the target wasn't any bigger BUT he had a nice circlar scar around his eye with 6 stitches, from the scope blowing backwards and hitting him in the eye 3 times! I had to tell him to reverse the "v" mount, so the scope would stay on!! Also Convenience ! ? .06 ammo is cheaper! .06 is what 9 out of 10 guys i know use! so when U leave UR ammo @ home, or in the truck, U buddies will usually have ammo U can borrow!!! HEY MY BULLET IS BIGGER THAT UR BULLET! Why do U think my name is Single Shot??? In my teens it was a tease, now it's an honour!!!

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from Chewylouie wrote 1 year 1 week ago

Dave, I have a 770, not a 700. The reason I vote 30-06 is because I have experience with it. I know it is not that accurate. I voted for the 243 (another gun I have experience with) over the 30-06, Because I know that it is more accurate. If I had shot a 300 WM, and new that it was more accurate, I would vote for that.

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