The Firing Line
What is your prefrence? I prefer birdshot in my shotgun. In a defensive sitituation your more than likely going to be in a hall or small room. Probally less than 7 yerds. The birdshot has plenty of power to get the job done. You don't have to worry about over penetration like you do with buckshot. This is really great, espically if you live in an apartment or have a wife and kids in the next room.
I'd go with a larger diameter birdshot, like TTT for the first round, second & third rounds would be buckshot just to let the intruder know I'm serious.
I keep Thor (that's my black 870 pump) loaded with 00 buck. I'd rather have the power to drop someone Right Now in such a situation. I figure if it ever comes to that, the s**t must have hit the fan so we not go big
Before my children came along, I kept a Rem 870 12 gauge with an 18.5 inch barrel available, and the four 2-3/4 inch 00 Buck cartridges were in the magazine. In my opinion, any issue that requires an armed response requires adequate and decisive firepower.
Could you imagine the police, military, or SWAT team entering a house with birdshot in their pumpguns?
Birdshot is for birds, stick with the buck.
I think when it comes down to it either will get the job done. As long as you have a couple shots to fire it should take down an intruder. Has anyone tried the Hornady TAP ammo, they have a 12 ga load that is for situations like this but I have no experience with it
Consider this, just the forceful working of a shotguns action to chamber a round is like the ultimate attention getter and evacuation drill you can ring.(especially a pumpgun)
From koolpics57 Consider this, just the forceful working of a shotguns action to chamber a round is like the ultimate attention getter and evacuation drill you can ring.(especially a pumpgun)
close range both will get your point through, but bird shot is less likely to go through the wall if you miss.
When i took my concealed carry class, the instructor told us that if we ever found ourselves in a situation where we had to shoot someone, to make sure he is down for the count (with one shot, of course). I'd stick with the buck.
im not sure if rubber bullets are legal for the public but you can either just cause them a lot of pain (legs and arms) but with a head shot itll do the job. only if your unwilling to kill. better then nothing but if youve exepted the fact that you may need to protect yourself and your family and are willing to do so....buckshot
OK, check this out. Some poor fella just killed a guy he THOUGHT was stealing his mama's palm trees down here in south texas (www.themonitor.com), with a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Now they've got him for murder, and though castle laws are TOUGH in Texas, this guy is in serious trouble. I'm a former Marine grunt with a family ranch to look after, and I believe in escalation of force (even if it's REALLY, really rapid escalation). If that poor fella had had two loads of birdshot loaded first, he coulda gotten his point across without killing anybody. But when there's a nutjob INSIDE your house, whatever will do the job without any blue-on-blue. SITUATION ALWAYS DICTATES. I keep a couple birdshot shells in and the rest buckshot, although I do not believe in shooting to disable.
mattreney,
My opinion is that if a person is unwilling to kill, they really shouldn't have a gun for self-defence. I believe that an attacker has made the decision to "be put down" by somebody who knows how. In other words the decision to attack an innocent person equals a decision to take the risk that the innocent person may be prepared to fight back with lethal force.
Although #4 Buckshot is the #1 choice for Law Enforcement, you must remember what’s beyond the target. You are liable from the squeeze of the trigger to the final resting point of that projectile/projectiles and hope nobody slips and falls on it.
I've noticed a lot of guides in the great northwest who carry shotguns to protect their fishing clients start the party off with a load of #4 buck and slugs afterward. They seem happy with its effectiveness.
Pass on the buckshot, go with a 1 oz. slug. One hit, no chance of spread, and definately will put something down.
In my own guns I run 2 slugs, 1 #4 Buckshot, and the rest are slugs. The buckshot is incase I see some rather large item that I can't get on the fly with the slug.
go with some good 00 buckshot.
Hopefully looking down the barrel of a 12 gauge will be enough to get an intruder to back down. If not i would go with bird shot, lower penetration because your kid may be on the other side of that wall.
Either, Just make sure that when the police arrive you are the only living person with an account of the events that took place in that hall.
I think I will stick to the 000 buck I kept in mine. My thinking is that a person more or less is about the size of a deer or larger, and there is no why that I would take birdshoot deer hunting. The other points is that it is illegal to hunt that sized animal with birdshot, it would be only hurt the deer. Therefore I believe that birdshot would only hurt an intruder and not put him down. My life is worth more to me than an intruders, so the less shots I need the better.
Buckshot always, you never have to wonder of the intruder has enough left in him to squeeze off a shot.
If you choose not to use a buckshot load at least use #4 shot or bigger.
Do you intruder a favor and load with at least OO Buckshot and make sure he goes down and stays down.
Bird shot or buck shot doesn't matter. At the 10 yards or less you have in your house, Pattern is about the same, both are going through your drywall, and shots to the vitals are going to keep them down. If you live in the city or have really close neighbors you'll be lucky if a slugs not inside your neighbor's house. People keep comparing load results to game animals and it doesn't apply. They are tougher and stronger than we are.
ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzz
#4 Buck...Might be difficult to find, but it will do the job!
If a robber breaks in i wont really care for over-penetration. I would use 00 buck.
Have you ever seen what a 12ga 2 ¾” with 1¼ oz #8 does to a car door? ENOUGH SAID!
#4 Buck for me. It will kill through walls but should not overpenetrate to the neighbor's house. It will put someone down instantly at 20 yards. As a matter of fact, you will be able to see daylight through them. Both do the same thing at 7 yards but they are really different at 20 yards. I've been shot dead center in the chest with a hot 2 3/4 hunting load of #4 shot at 25 yards. The pattern was about the size of a basketball. It lifted me off my feet and callapsed my lungs but only one piece of shot penetrated. I had on a parka, multiple sweat shirts and long johns or it would have been nasty. However, I would not be here today had that been #4 Buck. Home intrusions call for extreme measures as far as I am concerned. If someone is shooting at me, I intend to end it quickly.
At fighting ranges this, to me, is splitting hairs. I have #4 birdshot in my Mossberg 500 and Winchester 1300 (both 12 ga and both combat shotguns). I do not in the least feel that any booger man will walk away if hit solid inside my house. Now if I have to shoot past 10-15 yards, that means the fight is outside.....things have really gone south!
Now I was an infantry grunt who spent 14 months in the Sunni Triangle in Iraq and can testify to the effectiveness of 00 buck (all we had). I can also testify that Hollywood has it all wrong, you can miss with these things across the room. It doesn't blow someone through a window, even at ranges when you can "grab their belt". But a solid hit at normal (10-15 yards) ranges, it stops them in their tracks.
Home shotgun is loaded with two #4 birdshot followed up with OO buck.
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mattreney,
My opinion is that if a person is unwilling to kill, they really shouldn't have a gun for self-defence. I believe that an attacker has made the decision to "be put down" by somebody who knows how. In other words the decision to attack an innocent person equals a decision to take the risk that the innocent person may be prepared to fight back with lethal force.
When i took my concealed carry class, the instructor told us that if we ever found ourselves in a situation where we had to shoot someone, to make sure he is down for the count (with one shot, of course). I'd stick with the buck.
I think I will stick to the 000 buck I kept in mine. My thinking is that a person more or less is about the size of a deer or larger, and there is no why that I would take birdshoot deer hunting. The other points is that it is illegal to hunt that sized animal with birdshot, it would be only hurt the deer. Therefore I believe that birdshot would only hurt an intruder and not put him down. My life is worth more to me than an intruders, so the less shots I need the better.
ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzzz
I keep Thor (that's my black 870 pump) loaded with 00 buck. I'd rather have the power to drop someone Right Now in such a situation. I figure if it ever comes to that, the s**t must have hit the fan so we not go big
Before my children came along, I kept a Rem 870 12 gauge with an 18.5 inch barrel available, and the four 2-3/4 inch 00 Buck cartridges were in the magazine. In my opinion, any issue that requires an armed response requires adequate and decisive firepower.
Could you imagine the police, military, or SWAT team entering a house with birdshot in their pumpguns?
Birdshot is for birds, stick with the buck.
Consider this, just the forceful working of a shotguns action to chamber a round is like the ultimate attention getter and evacuation drill you can ring.(especially a pumpgun)
Although #4 Buckshot is the #1 choice for Law Enforcement, you must remember what’s beyond the target. You are liable from the squeeze of the trigger to the final resting point of that projectile/projectiles and hope nobody slips and falls on it.
Either, Just make sure that when the police arrive you are the only living person with an account of the events that took place in that hall.
Buckshot always, you never have to wonder of the intruder has enough left in him to squeeze off a shot.
I'd go with a larger diameter birdshot, like TTT for the first round, second & third rounds would be buckshot just to let the intruder know I'm serious.
I think when it comes down to it either will get the job done. As long as you have a couple shots to fire it should take down an intruder. Has anyone tried the Hornady TAP ammo, they have a 12 ga load that is for situations like this but I have no experience with it
From koolpics57 Consider this, just the forceful working of a shotguns action to chamber a round is like the ultimate attention getter and evacuation drill you can ring.(especially a pumpgun)
close range both will get your point through, but bird shot is less likely to go through the wall if you miss.
im not sure if rubber bullets are legal for the public but you can either just cause them a lot of pain (legs and arms) but with a head shot itll do the job. only if your unwilling to kill. better then nothing but if youve exepted the fact that you may need to protect yourself and your family and are willing to do so....buckshot
OK, check this out. Some poor fella just killed a guy he THOUGHT was stealing his mama's palm trees down here in south texas (www.themonitor.com), with a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Now they've got him for murder, and though castle laws are TOUGH in Texas, this guy is in serious trouble. I'm a former Marine grunt with a family ranch to look after, and I believe in escalation of force (even if it's REALLY, really rapid escalation). If that poor fella had had two loads of birdshot loaded first, he coulda gotten his point across without killing anybody. But when there's a nutjob INSIDE your house, whatever will do the job without any blue-on-blue. SITUATION ALWAYS DICTATES. I keep a couple birdshot shells in and the rest buckshot, although I do not believe in shooting to disable.
I've noticed a lot of guides in the great northwest who carry shotguns to protect their fishing clients start the party off with a load of #4 buck and slugs afterward. They seem happy with its effectiveness.
go with some good 00 buckshot.
Hopefully looking down the barrel of a 12 gauge will be enough to get an intruder to back down. If not i would go with bird shot, lower penetration because your kid may be on the other side of that wall.
If you choose not to use a buckshot load at least use #4 shot or bigger.
Do you intruder a favor and load with at least OO Buckshot and make sure he goes down and stays down.
Bird shot or buck shot doesn't matter. At the 10 yards or less you have in your house, Pattern is about the same, both are going through your drywall, and shots to the vitals are going to keep them down. If you live in the city or have really close neighbors you'll be lucky if a slugs not inside your neighbor's house. People keep comparing load results to game animals and it doesn't apply. They are tougher and stronger than we are.
#4 Buck...Might be difficult to find, but it will do the job!
If a robber breaks in i wont really care for over-penetration. I would use 00 buck.
Have you ever seen what a 12ga 2 ¾” with 1¼ oz #8 does to a car door? ENOUGH SAID!
#4 Buck for me. It will kill through walls but should not overpenetrate to the neighbor's house. It will put someone down instantly at 20 yards. As a matter of fact, you will be able to see daylight through them. Both do the same thing at 7 yards but they are really different at 20 yards. I've been shot dead center in the chest with a hot 2 3/4 hunting load of #4 shot at 25 yards. The pattern was about the size of a basketball. It lifted me off my feet and callapsed my lungs but only one piece of shot penetrated. I had on a parka, multiple sweat shirts and long johns or it would have been nasty. However, I would not be here today had that been #4 Buck. Home intrusions call for extreme measures as far as I am concerned. If someone is shooting at me, I intend to end it quickly.
At fighting ranges this, to me, is splitting hairs. I have #4 birdshot in my Mossberg 500 and Winchester 1300 (both 12 ga and both combat shotguns). I do not in the least feel that any booger man will walk away if hit solid inside my house. Now if I have to shoot past 10-15 yards, that means the fight is outside.....things have really gone south!
Now I was an infantry grunt who spent 14 months in the Sunni Triangle in Iraq and can testify to the effectiveness of 00 buck (all we had). I can also testify that Hollywood has it all wrong, you can miss with these things across the room. It doesn't blow someone through a window, even at ranges when you can "grab their belt". But a solid hit at normal (10-15 yards) ranges, it stops them in their tracks.
Home shotgun is loaded with two #4 birdshot followed up with OO buck.
Pass on the buckshot, go with a 1 oz. slug. One hit, no chance of spread, and definately will put something down.
In my own guns I run 2 slugs, 1 #4 Buckshot, and the rest are slugs. The buckshot is incase I see some rather large item that I can't get on the fly with the slug.
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