The Firing Line
Ok, fellow gun cranks, I'm looking around for a short barreled shotgun for home defense. What is your opinion of a side by side double as compared to a pump? The pump could be kept with a loaded magazine as opposed to the double but the double would be more simplistic for family members with less on-hands experience. I'm leaning toward a 20 gauge stoked with #4 buck. Your thoughts?
There is a Stevens 311 SxS loaded with #3 buckshot (20 pellets) on the wife's side of the bed. I don't know if #4 Buck is available in 20 ga. My 12 ga. S&W autoloader is also handy with 3" steel BB's.
Or you could go with the pump and teach and instruct your family how to handle, load, work the action, and shoot the gun. take them bluerock shooting. the first time i shot my first shotgun i did not know how to work the action or anything. after a few days of bluerock shooting i knew good and well how to operate a shotgun. you don't need to take your family out hunting, just shoot some clays.
I would go with the 870 tactical version. It is fairly inexpensive holds 7 rounds has a shorter barrel and you know they are reliable. You could teach them how to shoot a pump gun in one day.
you should always teach proper safe gun handling anyway. in the time it takes to teach safe handling of a double barrel you can teach safe use of a pump.
I have this Home defense buckshot that is one .60 caliber ball and six 0 buck pellets. Great performance on the range. Made by Centurion, its about a dollar a shot.
Nothing is too expensive for a perp...he he
I favor a pump for the simple reason that even the dumbest criminal knows the sound of a round being racked into the chamber and that is a fine deterrent right there no matter what the choice of load.
I like to alternate buck sho and slugs just in case. Remington 870 16 ga,
shot^
Well forst get a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip and no back stock. Then get your family together and train train train. A gun is no good unless they know how to use it.
You could pick up a Rem.1100 cheap. don't get much simpler than safety off, fire. As far as a double, anything is better then nothing, but why limit yourself to two shots. I would shy away from pistol grip shotguns they look cool but when the shot counts do you want your loved ones shooting from the hip or holding it out in front of them? I know I know everyone says its a shotgun how can you miss, but in the real world the contact distance in a house, your shot will not be much bigger then the barrel it just came out of.
As far as the sound of racking a shell into a pump, I've always heard that from other officers and friends, and have been in plenty of situations wear shotguns were being racked all over the place and I can't say that i've ever seen any reaction from the people the shotguns were being loaded for till they were aimed at them.
Your choice of load is perfect for a home, you don't need to be blasting through the walls. And as hjohn429 said Train, Train, Train!
Also make sure they have the right mindset,you have a right to protect yourself, don't let them think that maybe if they just wound them everything will be ok, that only works on TV.
Good points Lawman, I have 5 Shotguns in the house, all of whixh are ready to use My plan is that the wife has the l100 I have the 870 both are loaded with alternating 00 & Slugs, believe me no one will be complaining after that!
I consider the shotgun a better option for home defense because it's better learning curve and greater confidence-builder than a handgun for less experienced shooters and no less effective for experienced individuals. Of the available shotguns, the Remington 870 with 18.5 or 20-inch barrel. For practice, make a game of it for training purposes using stationary balloons, clay targets, plastic beverage bottles. If the training progresses well, add a measure of difficulty by suspending and swinging the targets, by gently tossing the clays. In time, use combat silhouettes because the concept of self-defense is easier to absorb than the reality, and training should approximate the worse-case scenario. If the safest room in your home or a hallway approach is 20-28 feet, build to that distance with aimed and instinctive shooting. A shotgun can be an intimidating weapon on both sides of the trigger assembly, so start with short distances and low brass, but build to the longer distances and 00 buckshot. Focus on building confidence and skill through familiarity, not "shock and awe". Keep it low stress. For an investment of 7-12 boxes of 12 or 20 gauge, your return on investment will be a better trained and prepared spouse.
if their not familiar with the gun they won't think to get it if someone breaks into your house it should become second nature to go for the gun they wont have time to think oh crap this guys gonna kill me what should i do and you wont always be there to talk them through it
Well I'd buy a mossberg 500 cruiser in 20 gauge with a load of 2s you don't have to worry about over penetration but the 2s will let him know your there.
a stevens 311 cut to 20 inches, loaded with 3in. #4 shot will stop anything creeping around my house and not harm the neighbors doing it.
by the way, my 311 is a 12gauge
Just picked up a Saiga 12ga. What an awesome home defense gun.
It's built on the AK 47 platform in Russia. It comes with a 5 round detatchable box mag, but they also come in 3rd, 10rd, 12rd box and a 20rd drum. In the time it would take someone to stuff two rounds in an 870, I can have a 12rd mag locked and loaded. The only thing I need is a weapon mounted light (which I believe in very strongly) and I'm good to go. It realy is an outstanding weapon, and simple for the wife and kids to use. Very low recoil due to the semi auto gas sys. There is a couple on youtube, check them out!
I went with a used 12ga.rem.870 mag.roit gun $267 my cost. but mossburg makes 20ga.With 18.5 in.or a 410 with an 18.5 in barrel.
Some shotguns have parts made of alum. that i do not trust in a shotgun.
NO gun or firearm is anygood too someone that does not know how to use it! train train train!!
You can't go wrong with a Mossberg 500, a Remington 870 or a Winchester 1300. They're ultra-reliable, ultra-tough, ultra-cheap and easy to use.
I have a Mossberg 500 and love it. The action cycles reliably and has never jammed. Im glad I chose it over an 870.
I saw a guy at the gun range years ago that had a "snake charmer"...
A .410 double-barreled pistol! I'd never seen one before, although I don't typically look at such weapons since they are outside of the traditional hunting stock. I've always thought that it would be an interesting addition to a home defense arsenal, as well as a great thing to have at hand if wading through some snake-infested swamp.
Certainly wouldn't be my weapon of choice for protecting the home, but it sure looked cool.
crosshairy's story reminded me, I know a young man who has a double barreled .410 handgun, not a cut down anything, but factory made somewhere along the way. He's your typical country boy, big, quiet, slow and soft speaking. He was sitting in his truck one evening when a guy walked up to his truck window and demanded his wallet. Bringing the .410 up to eye level from the map pocket, he asked in that quiet drawl "How bad do you want it?" End of robbery right there.
Well having a side by side may look bad a$$ in the movies I don't think its practical for home defense. Two shots and you have to reload. I would definitely go with a tactical pump gun either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Then I would take the extra time to teach my family how to use the gun so that if something does happen there not fiddling with a gun they don't know how to shoot.
I have a remington 870 express 12-gauge that i keep right next to my bed. actually, its on my bed. i have a back-up (http://www.home-backup-protection.com/) that holds the gun right next to me as i sleep. its a great setup that lets my gun always be within arm's reach.
Keep my Mossberg 500 by my bed. I have to go with what "country road" said, the sound of racking a round may make them run. I'd rather not have to shoot anyone if I don't have to.
Right now I've just got #6 in it. I'm still grappling with my religious beliefs about self defense. My hope right now is that it would be enough to make him leave, but not enough to kill. In the dark, all he's gonna know is that he's been shot. A compromise I've considered is having 2 rounds of lowbrass bird/game shot first, and then maybe a self defense load third - just in case.
EVERYBODY knows what a "slide" on a pump sounds like !
T R O U B L E ! ( If your a bad guy ! )
i would use #2 buckshot with a pump 12 ga.
Big O has it right.
Bonus for the pump: The shick-shick of chambering a shell will send the smart criminals running. (pity the dumb ones who stick around to see what the noise was)
Good call, Big O and Luke..... Get a pump and you probably will never even have to fire it in self-defense.
As far as the "pump" sound goes why should an intruder hear that ? What if he has a firearm ? Tactically unsound! The last noise an intruder hears should be boom, provided your state has a castle doctrine. If someone is in my house uninvited then all bets are off, they wernt scared coming in why should I scare them with a pump sound.
If you are hiding behind the corner wall whatever of your bedroom an intruder can shoot you thru the drywall if he hears "that pump sound". If you do have to "make the pump sound" a shot better be coming out real fast afterwards. Never do it blindly just to scare someone out of the woodworks. Get positive ID abd do or avoid giving your position away.
Think about it if I am armed and I hear "the pump sound" my weapon will come up and I am shootin an scootin!!!
Just a thought!
Take it from a guy who carried an 870 professionally for too many years That pump sound changed the mind suddenly of many a bad guy, Now that said, Its not your job to play hide and seek with a crook in your house. It is your job to defend you and yours by making your stand if the stupid bastard is dumb enough to come after you especially after you've made it known that you are well armed. Removing that one from the gene pool would be a public service. Now ammo. Slugs and buckshot will not be contained by a wood frame house and blow through drywall like it wasn't there. SO, how close are the neighbors and is all of your family accounted for and not in harms way from your "friendly fire"? A good goose or turkey load will make a fatal mess of a torso at social distances without over penetration. Plus a hunting load is easier to defend in court than an anti-personnel round.
My personal prefrence would be an 870 rack the slide watch em run or somone says loudly "ITS ME" makes for good target id before you blind them with a tac light. Theres another plus of a nice room broom that your not going to have alot of over penetration using a small shot buck shot sounds nice but most engagement ranges within the home will be quite short how long is your hallway anyway? So some bird shot from 10ft away will make a nasty hole with the wad penetrating right behind it.
PS not alot of tactically trained and minded people do B&E They make think they are but watching CSI Miami to learn dynamic entry will not cut the mustard. So in that regard rack the slide and generaly one of two things will happen they will run or go "ITS ME" loudly personally as a person who is tactially trained to enter and clear a room I dont like playing in somone else's back yard keep that in mind that those who break in probably are not in a sober sane mind as you and I are.. I doubt your going to pop smoke and draw fire racking the slide on your weapon.
Follow up - 5:00 am this past Saturday morning, 4 miles from my back door, a neighbor's door was kicked in by some pilled up moron who did not know where he was or why. Don't know what kind of response he received from the homeowner but I doubt it was too friendly. Sadly, the police could only charge him with breaking and entering. Since I made this original post, I have acquired a Mossberg 500 12 gauge that will reside in a basement closet close at hand, stoked with #4 high brass and perhaps a couple of #4 buck at the tail end (we're pretty rural, no real concerns there). Be safe, all.
Alex's mossberg 500 youth 20 ga with any shot at close range would work. Have you seen what #6's does to a car door at 12 feet! Of course #4 Buckshot comes to mind, but it's the pass thru walls and carry over to the neighbors house I'd worry about!
Agreed with passing thru walls as to occupants of our house, but the nearest neighbor would require a stout rifle to reach his place.
a coach gun is what i would use it is a short barrell 12 ga with 2 triggers and you can also use 3 inch shells as well as 2 3/4 i would use a #4 round in one barrell and 00 in the other caus eif it comes to pulling a gun on someone i want to know they arent going to walk away from it
I personally like the Rem 870 tactical with A4 style adjustable stock. But any shotgun is a great home defense gun no matter the action. The only thing I will contradict is everyone’s choice of round. Don’t get me wrong, my shotgun has buckshot ON it for easy access if I go outside. But for action inside the house #6 birdshot really is a better choice. At the range you shoot in most houses the shot stays together so tightly it is like one solid slug . But it will usually not penetrate even two layers of dry-wall past about 10 feet. Even at closer range it loses so much velocity it is much less powerful after initial contact. But it still goes deep enough to cause severe tissue damage at that range. What this means is it will stop any attacker you want, but will be less dangerous to your loved ones in another room of the house should you miss. I know we all think that “I won’t miss!”, but let’s be honest, even professionals miss. Don’t believe me? Try it yourself. Just get some 2x4’s and dry wall, build a small wall structure, take a few steps back and fire. Then try it on a jug and see the difference. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it is true. Like I said, slugs and buckshot are attached to the gun in case I need to go outside to resolve the problem. But it sits ready with #6 birdshot for quick response inside.
Just my 2 cents.
that's suppose to be "a jug of water"
Benelli nova 12 or 20 loaded with #6 shot and a modified choke.99% of the time you won't need to pull the trigger, just racking the slide will make most intruders shake in their boots.
Home defense calls for close encounters...something that will put the perp's belt buckle through the wall behind him/her. You want to smoke the bad guy/girl, not the extended member of your family sleeping in the next bedroom. Taurus 410/.45 ACP hand gun...no worries about swinging a 20" barrel in the dark, bumping into a trophy case in the front room...been there...the Taurus is the answer.
I carried a Rem 870 18 inch barrel in my patrol car for 35 years. There is nothing like the rack of an 870 in the middle of the night. It gets everyone's attention. My favorite load is #4 Buck. If you make the mistake of breaking into my house I hope you are at peace with the Lord because that is where you are headed. The best advice I can give to you is to get your family members together and train, train, train, and train some more. I was the training officer for over 20 years and I realize how important training is. In a fight a person will revert back to how they were trained, you don't really think you react on instinct. Training is easy to do your local Sheriff's office will be glad to give you some pointers on what you need to do. A pump shotgun is easy to learn , you can keep the chamber empty and you can have several rounds at your disposal if needed. Inside your house all you need is low brass rounds, you don't need 3 inch magnums or high brass shells. Your family members will be confident once they have fired the shotgun several times and see what it can do.
countitandone -- I thought the judge was chambered for the .45 long colt, not the acp?
Get a pump. The sound alone is sometimes enough to scare any intruders away.
Jay, right you are and thanks.
Alot of you guys are talking about the SOUND of a pump shotgun, but realistically in my household, if you present yourself as an imminent threat, you will probably not hear the racking of the slide, due to the fact you will be dead after I chamber a fresh round.
It may be different for you guys with kids, and I would never advise you to keep a loaded firearm around the house. I keep mine loaded knowing my fiance won't mess with it, unless she knows she has to use it.
Just something to keep in mind.
Freek
Don't figure you will ever see this, but here goes.
As my two children grew, I started them on .22 handguns and long guns. I was fortunate enough to have .22's in semi-auto, bolt, and lever.
As they grew and developed, as size dictated, they were allowed to shoot larger and larger calibers.
When both were in Jr. High, the four of us were home one weekend when I decided to "test" them. I laid a .22 Ruger Single Six (unloaded!) on the dining room table and told the wife what was going on.
As the four of us worked around the house, inside and out, the two of them "NEVER" touched the revolver!
Why? They had handled the gun so many times in the past, they were no longer curious. They also knew, if they wanted to look, touch, feel, shoot a firearm, dad would allow it or explain why, and I NEVER used, "Because I said so!".
They both now carry firearms as part of their daily routine.
One is a Federal LEO, the other is State!
Bubba
Good comment Bubba on this old thread. I trained mine in a simular fashion.
First let me say having worked as a Commissioned Security Officer in some of the most dangerous areas of Fort Worth and Dallas Texas I carried as my service piece a Colt 45 1911 combat elite, AND a Mossburg 500. For what ever reason bad guys just don't fear side arms like they do shot guns, and while I worked partol I never kept a round in the pipe of the mossburg just so I could rack one during a possible incounter. 99% persent of the time when you rack a round in front of someone the problem ends right there. So I have to agree with the rest on racking a round, and in a quiet house the sound is 10 fold. Here is the main point I wanted to make to my reply....It's the mind set portion of this subject that has to be established in each person's mind. It doesn't matter if you have a XD-40, a 500 Mossburg or a 7.62 mini gun beside your bed. If you hear someone in your house at night you need to understand you might have to take a life that night. If you hesatate it might be your life that will be taken. I know this is a hard thing for some people to get their arms around. The best way to be prepaired is play out possible incounter's in your mind and be prepaired mentailly to react, so it become's second nature.
Good Training and a positive mindset shall go a long way to saving you and your family's life if you have to take action in the middle of the night.
I keep my mossburgh 535 between my bed and night stand. A pump is definitely better than a double for home defense. I prefer low brass number sevens for home defense. At the kind of ranges you are going to be shooting at in a home defense situation it will kill someone just as fast as a magnum buckshot load would and it will stop after one wall instead of going through three or four( this is especially important for me since I live in townhouse so even if I know where my family is I don't want to accidentally kill my neighbor.
I keep my mossburgh 535 between my bed and night stand. A pump is definitely better than a double for home defense. I prefer low brass number sevens for home defense. At the kind of ranges you are going to be shooting at in a home defense situation it will kill someone just as fast as a magnum buckshot load would and it will stop after one wall instead of going through three or four( this is especially important for me since I live in townhouse so even if I know where my family is I don't want to accidentally kill my neighbor.
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I favor a pump for the simple reason that even the dumbest criminal knows the sound of a round being racked into the chamber and that is a fine deterrent right there no matter what the choice of load.
I would go with the 870 tactical version. It is fairly inexpensive holds 7 rounds has a shorter barrel and you know they are reliable. You could teach them how to shoot a pump gun in one day.
I have this Home defense buckshot that is one .60 caliber ball and six 0 buck pellets. Great performance on the range. Made by Centurion, its about a dollar a shot.
you should always teach proper safe gun handling anyway. in the time it takes to teach safe handling of a double barrel you can teach safe use of a pump.
Nothing is too expensive for a perp...he he
I consider the shotgun a better option for home defense because it's better learning curve and greater confidence-builder than a handgun for less experienced shooters and no less effective for experienced individuals. Of the available shotguns, the Remington 870 with 18.5 or 20-inch barrel. For practice, make a game of it for training purposes using stationary balloons, clay targets, plastic beverage bottles. If the training progresses well, add a measure of difficulty by suspending and swinging the targets, by gently tossing the clays. In time, use combat silhouettes because the concept of self-defense is easier to absorb than the reality, and training should approximate the worse-case scenario. If the safest room in your home or a hallway approach is 20-28 feet, build to that distance with aimed and instinctive shooting. A shotgun can be an intimidating weapon on both sides of the trigger assembly, so start with short distances and low brass, but build to the longer distances and 00 buckshot. Focus on building confidence and skill through familiarity, not "shock and awe". Keep it low stress. For an investment of 7-12 boxes of 12 or 20 gauge, your return on investment will be a better trained and prepared spouse.
There is a Stevens 311 SxS loaded with #3 buckshot (20 pellets) on the wife's side of the bed. I don't know if #4 Buck is available in 20 ga. My 12 ga. S&W autoloader is also handy with 3" steel BB's.
Or you could go with the pump and teach and instruct your family how to handle, load, work the action, and shoot the gun. take them bluerock shooting. the first time i shot my first shotgun i did not know how to work the action or anything. after a few days of bluerock shooting i knew good and well how to operate a shotgun. you don't need to take your family out hunting, just shoot some clays.
You could pick up a Rem.1100 cheap. don't get much simpler than safety off, fire. As far as a double, anything is better then nothing, but why limit yourself to two shots. I would shy away from pistol grip shotguns they look cool but when the shot counts do you want your loved ones shooting from the hip or holding it out in front of them? I know I know everyone says its a shotgun how can you miss, but in the real world the contact distance in a house, your shot will not be much bigger then the barrel it just came out of.
As far as the sound of racking a shell into a pump, I've always heard that from other officers and friends, and have been in plenty of situations wear shotguns were being racked all over the place and I can't say that i've ever seen any reaction from the people the shotguns were being loaded for till they were aimed at them.
Your choice of load is perfect for a home, you don't need to be blasting through the walls. And as hjohn429 said Train, Train, Train!
Also make sure they have the right mindset,you have a right to protect yourself, don't let them think that maybe if they just wound them everything will be ok, that only works on TV.
Good points Lawman, I have 5 Shotguns in the house, all of whixh are ready to use My plan is that the wife has the l100 I have the 870 both are loaded with alternating 00 & Slugs, believe me no one will be complaining after that!
a stevens 311 cut to 20 inches, loaded with 3in. #4 shot will stop anything creeping around my house and not harm the neighbors doing it.
EVERYBODY knows what a "slide" on a pump sounds like !
T R O U B L E ! ( If your a bad guy ! )
Well forst get a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip and no back stock. Then get your family together and train train train. A gun is no good unless they know how to use it.
if their not familiar with the gun they won't think to get it if someone breaks into your house it should become second nature to go for the gun they wont have time to think oh crap this guys gonna kill me what should i do and you wont always be there to talk them through it
Well I'd buy a mossberg 500 cruiser in 20 gauge with a load of 2s you don't have to worry about over penetration but the 2s will let him know your there.
by the way, my 311 is a 12gauge
I went with a used 12ga.rem.870 mag.roit gun $267 my cost. but mossburg makes 20ga.With 18.5 in.or a 410 with an 18.5 in barrel.
Some shotguns have parts made of alum. that i do not trust in a shotgun.
NO gun or firearm is anygood too someone that does not know how to use it! train train train!!
Well having a side by side may look bad a$$ in the movies I don't think its practical for home defense. Two shots and you have to reload. I would definitely go with a tactical pump gun either a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. Then I would take the extra time to teach my family how to use the gun so that if something does happen there not fiddling with a gun they don't know how to shoot.
Keep my Mossberg 500 by my bed. I have to go with what "country road" said, the sound of racking a round may make them run. I'd rather not have to shoot anyone if I don't have to.
Right now I've just got #6 in it. I'm still grappling with my religious beliefs about self defense. My hope right now is that it would be enough to make him leave, but not enough to kill. In the dark, all he's gonna know is that he's been shot. A compromise I've considered is having 2 rounds of lowbrass bird/game shot first, and then maybe a self defense load third - just in case.
i would use #2 buckshot with a pump 12 ga.
As far as the "pump" sound goes why should an intruder hear that ? What if he has a firearm ? Tactically unsound! The last noise an intruder hears should be boom, provided your state has a castle doctrine. If someone is in my house uninvited then all bets are off, they wernt scared coming in why should I scare them with a pump sound.
If you are hiding behind the corner wall whatever of your bedroom an intruder can shoot you thru the drywall if he hears "that pump sound". If you do have to "make the pump sound" a shot better be coming out real fast afterwards. Never do it blindly just to scare someone out of the woodworks. Get positive ID abd do or avoid giving your position away.
Think about it if I am armed and I hear "the pump sound" my weapon will come up and I am shootin an scootin!!!
Just a thought!
Take it from a guy who carried an 870 professionally for too many years That pump sound changed the mind suddenly of many a bad guy, Now that said, Its not your job to play hide and seek with a crook in your house. It is your job to defend you and yours by making your stand if the stupid bastard is dumb enough to come after you especially after you've made it known that you are well armed. Removing that one from the gene pool would be a public service. Now ammo. Slugs and buckshot will not be contained by a wood frame house and blow through drywall like it wasn't there. SO, how close are the neighbors and is all of your family accounted for and not in harms way from your "friendly fire"? A good goose or turkey load will make a fatal mess of a torso at social distances without over penetration. Plus a hunting load is easier to defend in court than an anti-personnel round.
My personal prefrence would be an 870 rack the slide watch em run or somone says loudly "ITS ME" makes for good target id before you blind them with a tac light. Theres another plus of a nice room broom that your not going to have alot of over penetration using a small shot buck shot sounds nice but most engagement ranges within the home will be quite short how long is your hallway anyway? So some bird shot from 10ft away will make a nasty hole with the wad penetrating right behind it.
PS not alot of tactically trained and minded people do B&E They make think they are but watching CSI Miami to learn dynamic entry will not cut the mustard. So in that regard rack the slide and generaly one of two things will happen they will run or go "ITS ME" loudly personally as a person who is tactially trained to enter and clear a room I dont like playing in somone else's back yard keep that in mind that those who break in probably are not in a sober sane mind as you and I are.. I doubt your going to pop smoke and draw fire racking the slide on your weapon.
I personally like the Rem 870 tactical with A4 style adjustable stock. But any shotgun is a great home defense gun no matter the action. The only thing I will contradict is everyone’s choice of round. Don’t get me wrong, my shotgun has buckshot ON it for easy access if I go outside. But for action inside the house #6 birdshot really is a better choice. At the range you shoot in most houses the shot stays together so tightly it is like one solid slug . But it will usually not penetrate even two layers of dry-wall past about 10 feet. Even at closer range it loses so much velocity it is much less powerful after initial contact. But it still goes deep enough to cause severe tissue damage at that range. What this means is it will stop any attacker you want, but will be less dangerous to your loved ones in another room of the house should you miss. I know we all think that “I won’t miss!”, but let’s be honest, even professionals miss. Don’t believe me? Try it yourself. Just get some 2x4’s and dry wall, build a small wall structure, take a few steps back and fire. Then try it on a jug and see the difference. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it is true. Like I said, slugs and buckshot are attached to the gun in case I need to go outside to resolve the problem. But it sits ready with #6 birdshot for quick response inside.
Just my 2 cents.
I carried a Rem 870 18 inch barrel in my patrol car for 35 years. There is nothing like the rack of an 870 in the middle of the night. It gets everyone's attention. My favorite load is #4 Buck. If you make the mistake of breaking into my house I hope you are at peace with the Lord because that is where you are headed. The best advice I can give to you is to get your family members together and train, train, train, and train some more. I was the training officer for over 20 years and I realize how important training is. In a fight a person will revert back to how they were trained, you don't really think you react on instinct. Training is easy to do your local Sheriff's office will be glad to give you some pointers on what you need to do. A pump shotgun is easy to learn , you can keep the chamber empty and you can have several rounds at your disposal if needed. Inside your house all you need is low brass rounds, you don't need 3 inch magnums or high brass shells. Your family members will be confident once they have fired the shotgun several times and see what it can do.
countitandone -- I thought the judge was chambered for the .45 long colt, not the acp?
Freek
Don't figure you will ever see this, but here goes.
As my two children grew, I started them on .22 handguns and long guns. I was fortunate enough to have .22's in semi-auto, bolt, and lever.
As they grew and developed, as size dictated, they were allowed to shoot larger and larger calibers.
When both were in Jr. High, the four of us were home one weekend when I decided to "test" them. I laid a .22 Ruger Single Six (unloaded!) on the dining room table and told the wife what was going on.
As the four of us worked around the house, inside and out, the two of them "NEVER" touched the revolver!
Why? They had handled the gun so many times in the past, they were no longer curious. They also knew, if they wanted to look, touch, feel, shoot a firearm, dad would allow it or explain why, and I NEVER used, "Because I said so!".
They both now carry firearms as part of their daily routine.
One is a Federal LEO, the other is State!
Bubba
I keep my mossburgh 535 between my bed and night stand. A pump is definitely better than a double for home defense. I prefer low brass number sevens for home defense. At the kind of ranges you are going to be shooting at in a home defense situation it will kill someone just as fast as a magnum buckshot load would and it will stop after one wall instead of going through three or four( this is especially important for me since I live in townhouse so even if I know where my family is I don't want to accidentally kill my neighbor.
I like to alternate buck sho and slugs just in case. Remington 870 16 ga,
shot^
Just picked up a Saiga 12ga. What an awesome home defense gun.
It's built on the AK 47 platform in Russia. It comes with a 5 round detatchable box mag, but they also come in 3rd, 10rd, 12rd box and a 20rd drum. In the time it would take someone to stuff two rounds in an 870, I can have a 12rd mag locked and loaded. The only thing I need is a weapon mounted light (which I believe in very strongly) and I'm good to go. It realy is an outstanding weapon, and simple for the wife and kids to use. Very low recoil due to the semi auto gas sys. There is a couple on youtube, check them out!
You can't go wrong with a Mossberg 500, a Remington 870 or a Winchester 1300. They're ultra-reliable, ultra-tough, ultra-cheap and easy to use.
I have a Mossberg 500 and love it. The action cycles reliably and has never jammed. Im glad I chose it over an 870.
I saw a guy at the gun range years ago that had a "snake charmer"...
A .410 double-barreled pistol! I'd never seen one before, although I don't typically look at such weapons since they are outside of the traditional hunting stock. I've always thought that it would be an interesting addition to a home defense arsenal, as well as a great thing to have at hand if wading through some snake-infested swamp.
Certainly wouldn't be my weapon of choice for protecting the home, but it sure looked cool.
crosshairy's story reminded me, I know a young man who has a double barreled .410 handgun, not a cut down anything, but factory made somewhere along the way. He's your typical country boy, big, quiet, slow and soft speaking. He was sitting in his truck one evening when a guy walked up to his truck window and demanded his wallet. Bringing the .410 up to eye level from the map pocket, he asked in that quiet drawl "How bad do you want it?" End of robbery right there.
I have a remington 870 express 12-gauge that i keep right next to my bed. actually, its on my bed. i have a back-up (http://www.home-backup-protection.com/) that holds the gun right next to me as i sleep. its a great setup that lets my gun always be within arm's reach.
Big O has it right.
Bonus for the pump: The shick-shick of chambering a shell will send the smart criminals running. (pity the dumb ones who stick around to see what the noise was)
Good call, Big O and Luke..... Get a pump and you probably will never even have to fire it in self-defense.
Follow up - 5:00 am this past Saturday morning, 4 miles from my back door, a neighbor's door was kicked in by some pilled up moron who did not know where he was or why. Don't know what kind of response he received from the homeowner but I doubt it was too friendly. Sadly, the police could only charge him with breaking and entering. Since I made this original post, I have acquired a Mossberg 500 12 gauge that will reside in a basement closet close at hand, stoked with #4 high brass and perhaps a couple of #4 buck at the tail end (we're pretty rural, no real concerns there). Be safe, all.
Alex's mossberg 500 youth 20 ga with any shot at close range would work. Have you seen what #6's does to a car door at 12 feet! Of course #4 Buckshot comes to mind, but it's the pass thru walls and carry over to the neighbors house I'd worry about!
Agreed with passing thru walls as to occupants of our house, but the nearest neighbor would require a stout rifle to reach his place.
a coach gun is what i would use it is a short barrell 12 ga with 2 triggers and you can also use 3 inch shells as well as 2 3/4 i would use a #4 round in one barrell and 00 in the other caus eif it comes to pulling a gun on someone i want to know they arent going to walk away from it
that's suppose to be "a jug of water"
Benelli nova 12 or 20 loaded with #6 shot and a modified choke.99% of the time you won't need to pull the trigger, just racking the slide will make most intruders shake in their boots.
Home defense calls for close encounters...something that will put the perp's belt buckle through the wall behind him/her. You want to smoke the bad guy/girl, not the extended member of your family sleeping in the next bedroom. Taurus 410/.45 ACP hand gun...no worries about swinging a 20" barrel in the dark, bumping into a trophy case in the front room...been there...the Taurus is the answer.
Get a pump. The sound alone is sometimes enough to scare any intruders away.
Jay, right you are and thanks.
First let me say having worked as a Commissioned Security Officer in some of the most dangerous areas of Fort Worth and Dallas Texas I carried as my service piece a Colt 45 1911 combat elite, AND a Mossburg 500. For what ever reason bad guys just don't fear side arms like they do shot guns, and while I worked partol I never kept a round in the pipe of the mossburg just so I could rack one during a possible incounter. 99% persent of the time when you rack a round in front of someone the problem ends right there. So I have to agree with the rest on racking a round, and in a quiet house the sound is 10 fold. Here is the main point I wanted to make to my reply....It's the mind set portion of this subject that has to be established in each person's mind. It doesn't matter if you have a XD-40, a 500 Mossburg or a 7.62 mini gun beside your bed. If you hear someone in your house at night you need to understand you might have to take a life that night. If you hesatate it might be your life that will be taken. I know this is a hard thing for some people to get their arms around. The best way to be prepaired is play out possible incounter's in your mind and be prepaired mentailly to react, so it become's second nature.
Good Training and a positive mindset shall go a long way to saving you and your family's life if you have to take action in the middle of the night.
Alot of you guys are talking about the SOUND of a pump shotgun, but realistically in my household, if you present yourself as an imminent threat, you will probably not hear the racking of the slide, due to the fact you will be dead after I chamber a fresh round.
It may be different for you guys with kids, and I would never advise you to keep a loaded firearm around the house. I keep mine loaded knowing my fiance won't mess with it, unless she knows she has to use it.
Just something to keep in mind.
Good comment Bubba on this old thread. I trained mine in a simular fashion.
I keep my mossburgh 535 between my bed and night stand. A pump is definitely better than a double for home defense. I prefer low brass number sevens for home defense. At the kind of ranges you are going to be shooting at in a home defense situation it will kill someone just as fast as a magnum buckshot load would and it will stop after one wall instead of going through three or four( this is especially important for me since I live in townhouse so even if I know where my family is I don't want to accidentally kill my neighbor.
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