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Deer Hunting with Dogs

Uploaded on April 22, 2009

Starting last year, a certain timber company the club I hunt with leases land from, prohibited the use of dogs to deer hunt. Just recently two more clubs in my area of SC have just been informed they can no longer run dogs. They said the reason for banning the running of dogs is because a lot of uproar from still hunters. I still hunt and hunt with dogs, and I have to tell you from personal experience that you are more likely to kill that trophy or for that matter a deer with dogs than if you sat up in a stand all day long. My question to all hunters, what is the uproar? Help me understand why some people who still hunt just do not like a hunting dog to run in front of him? If they run through there, the deer has too! Dogs let you know there is a deer coming. They make deer move that otherwise are just going to wait to sundown to walk. I have sat in a tree stand all day long and nothing. Time the sun went down the deer came right under the stand I was sitting in!!! People have their opinions, I respect them for that opinion. But with all the uproar going on about dog hunting, soon we will be left without the sport we love. There has got to be a middle ground that still hunters, landowners, and dog hunters can agree on that we all get what we want. If enough dog hunters do not start standing up for the sport we pour our time, sweat, love for our dogs,and most of all a lot of money spent on dog food we will loose. If the still hunters and landowners complaint is because the dog owners trespass on their land, I am sorry, because not all dog hunters do that. We have sat beside a highway into the night, paddled across a pond to just avoid trespassing!!! Tell me what you all think. This is worth a debate!

If you don't believe me about the deer harvested in front of dogs, try looking at our web page: www.myspace.com/cashlakehuntingclub .

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from vtbluegrass wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

First off claiming MORE trophy deer are killed or that you are MORE likely to kill a trophy deer in-front of dogs is a flawed statement in ways that I could fill a book with reasons. The biggest deer in the country are clearly coming from areas that do not allow dog hunting such as the upper mid-west and Texas. In areas where deer are not run all day with dogs they have less nocturnal tendencies. For example prior to moving to eastern NC where dog hunting is allowed and prevalent almost all my deer had been killed between 10am and 4pm. Since moving to a dog area almost all my deer come in the first and last 30 minutes of the day. And you say you have sat in a stand all day without seeing a deer? Oh my! the horror! Its called hunting not killing for a reason. I would say every single hunter on the planet no matter the species has experienced this so get over it.
Lets say I am stand hunting and your dogs blow through my property; once they have passed I feel my day is crap from then on. I hunt deer by scouting natural movements of deer and dogs screw that all the hell up. Yes someone else's dogs can push deer by me but they can just as easily push them away. Also I hunting in fairly thick timber most of the year and much of the season with bow, a deer being chased through these areas provide little chance at an ethical shot and almost no bow opportunity what so ever. There is no real survey to turn to but I would bet during deer season no less than 50%(probably more like 75%) of the dogs boxes I see in trucks have a swivel seat mounted on top of them. Its not at all uncommon to see this rig parked along the side of the road with a dog hunter sitting atop the box with rifle. While this may just be the idiot that get seen it is horrible public image and just freaking lazy. If you park you truck stand in a field its still lazy.
The middle ground is this if you hunt dogs get enough property to run them. There are too many a**holes out there running 10 dogs on 200 acres knowing full well the dogs are going to blow through to neighboring properties in minutes.

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from deerhunter125 wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

I can see how some people wouldn't like it but it isn't much different than when people do drives and by all means I am not putting that down because that is the way I hunt. But I personally would like to deer hunt with dogs sometime in my life.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Thanks for the comments. I can see your line of thought on dogs running through properties, but fortunately the club I hunt with is over 6000 acres and growing. The problem I don't understand is sometimes through just inexperienced hunters and young teenagers we sometimes let the deer get out of the hunt. We respect other clubs rights and private properties, we have tracking collars on the dogs so no big deal they will eventually come back to us. There are still-hunters that would just as soon shoot a dog to get rid of the problem they think they have. No our club isn't 200 acres, with a bunch of people sitting on dog boxes. As a primarily dog hunting club, we work hard to drive deer out of those swamps and creeks where the bucks lay up. Our Dog drivers, me included, we walk the woods, interior part of the hunt and do what some aren't willing to do, "Busting Briars". All of our standers are on the perimeter of about 1000 to 2000 acre section of club hunting with shotguns (rifles aren't allowed on dog drives for safety issues). I have been a stander, and let me tell you something, you have to still hunt even on a dog drive. I can not tell you how many times deer have come by me and not a dog any where around. All of our dog men have told numerous stories how they walked right up on deer. The deer is not going to move unless you move him. If dogs run through your stand, the deer has already been through there. And if the deer went that way out its going to come back that way. I can't tell you how many times the dog drive has ended and I chose to stay on my stand or move to the spot that the deer went through and I saw the deer come back!!!! I like to still-hunt but I love to dog hunt too. I can not imagine hunting deer without my dogs. The dogs get more pleasure than I do, and that's saying something! I just think still-hunters that have a problem with dog hunting, should think about what it will do to us if we aren't allowed to hunt the way we like to hunt. How would the still-hunter feel if their land were taken from them because dog people grumbled all the time. This is a real problem. I have 16 dogs all black and tan coon hounds. All of them eat good and go to the vet. I am not the only hunter that has dogs that would be affected. This thing with dog hunting can and will hurt the economy, it will hurt the animals, and it will hurt most of the dog hunter. I get meat everytime I go on a dog drive. I don't get meat everytime I still-hunt. And for the dogs, some of the dogs I have right now I have acquired because they have put out in the sandhills because of this new no-dog-running change, I feel sure. I am not against still-hunting, I like it, but I think a person ought to have the right to hunt game the way they like to, as long as it doesn't break any rules in the regulation books. IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ON A DOG DRIVE, DON'T KNOCK IT UNTIL YOU TRIED IT.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

I grew up in Ark. and dogs were/are allowed. I've hunted in several states scince then and on some of those "quite" opening mornings I still "long to hear the song". Maybe it's just us that grew up listening to/for that melody from deep in the woods that really gets the ol' ticker pumpin'.
Like outdoorchic said "don't knock it till ya' try it.

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from usmcturkey wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

I do not have much of a problem with dogs because like you said do not knock it until you have tried it. Being from the north I have not experienced it. The only problem I have with dogs is when the owners keep running the same area. The deer are constantly on the run burning much needed food they are finding. Another note was mentioned above the deer will become nocturnal or just leave the area. I do not know how I feel about dogs but I was brought up with out hunting them so I think I will always be partial to that.

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from benjismokin wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Im sorry to whomever gets upset with my words that I am about to say, I dont want to offend anyone but:

HUNTING WITH THE USE OF DOGS IS DOWN RIGHT INSANE! WHAT KIND OF A HUNTER ARE YOU SUPPOSE TO BE? I MEAN ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH THAT YOU HAVE A GUN THAT CAN PROBABLY STOP A DEER IN ITS TRACKS AT AROUND 100 TO 200 YARDS AND THEY WONT EVEN KNOW WHATS COMING..BUT NOW YOU WANT TO RUN THEM DOWN, SO THEY ARE EXHAUSTED AND SCARED TOO! I PITTY WHOEVER HAS TO USE DOGS FOR AID IN HUNTING...YOU NEED SOME MAJOR HELP!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

In response to Benjismokin, while I respect your opinion, I still disagree. On dog drives it is mandatory on our club that all hunters use shotguns. We are spaced out on a huge tract of land and contrary to what you may believe the deer isn't going to hear the dogs running one deer and all of them jump up scared and be running in every direction. I have sat on a deer drive before and dogs be running through an area close by and leave, hour or two go by I am still sitting there and a deer just walk right in front of me. No help from the dogs!! Basically still hunting. Besides if you are a deer hunter sitting up in a tree watching no should I say baiting (which mind you when I am not dog driving is just what I have done)deer, where is the sport in that. The deer walk right out in front of you, and you kill it while it is eating!!! What you then, executioner giving it its last supper? On dog drives the deer is given fair chase and it knows we are there and depending on the knowledge of the hunters its up to them to have enough of sense to know where the deer is more than likely to go or run to. And let me tell you most of the time, the deer is not run to death, we usually "harvest" the animal once its jumped within twenty minutes or so. As for the major help, you may need it when one night in the future(after they ban all dog drives) when you driving home after still hunting (more than likely hadn't seen a thing) and a big buck or doe jumps in the front of your vehicle and completely demolishes it. How many deer do you kill in a year? We have harvested over 100 a year for the past two years that I have been keeping record. There is a over abundance of deer you cut out dog drives and see how many car-deer accidents occur. We do the people driving back and forth on the roads a justice.

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from CountryboyKrc wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

I'm 14 years old from Nc and i love dog hunting. If they banned it i would most likely quit hunting its very exciting and it lowers the number of wouded deer that arent ever found. its a passion and its the only hunting i ever want to do just because some people dont like it theres a lot more that do enjoy it including me

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 48 weeks ago

Thanks CountryboyKrc!!! Some still hunters do not really understand the importance of dogs. I went still hunting last year just to try it out, because I hadn't never tried it before. I was stopped by a man that was hunting on the other end of the bottleneck I was hunting. We had some words, in short he didn't like the idea of me being there. Well, this in itself made still hunting a bad experience for me. I had permission and the guy was just mad because I was there. So I told him to call my uncle if he had a problem with me being there. I went on to the stand and began waiting. The day before I let a nice buck walk because I felt I couldn't get a kill shot with my shot gun. So I waited for the buck to return. This day, my buck came within 20 yards of my stand. He never knew I was there. To all you dedicated still hunters who spend all that money on scent cover you are wasting your money!!! Good ole cedar limbs that I carried into the field from my house done the trick!!! (I had chips in my clothes also.) Needless to say, I felt this might be my only chance since the guy was irritated with me for just being there. I took my shot the buck jumped I shot again and he went down. I stayed in the stand for a good five minutes because I wanted the deer to bleed out and the last thing I wanted was a mad buck running me down!!! The light was gone. I called my uncle and told him what happened. The only thing the deer had slipped through the bean field while I waited and was not where he fell! I told my uncle to bring my black and tan hunting dog, within 30 minutes we had found the deer and drug it to the truck. This deer left no blood trail. I shot him in the neck and chest. So tell me what would have happened to my nice 145 lb. 8 pt. if I had not had deer dogs? I will tell you, my deer would have become coyote or buzzard food. On dog drives, we are a family. Everybody gets along, and we all sit around and talk about what the dogs did or what trick the deer tried to pull on the dogs. But the best thing is we all have fun. We all get meat every time we go hunting. I have not killed my first deer at the club I hunt with yet. But even though I am female, I can't wait to be iniated into a group of people that I have come to love and respect as true sportsmen. I sat in my deer stand my uncle built for me about 2 hours, quiet, alone, and even though I killed my first deer (a buck at that) I was wishing all the time I had someone there to share it with. I climbed down from the stand and took my deer to the processor. There were no guys around to pat me on my shoulder, there was no story to tell how I got my deer. The only story I had was a disgruntled still hunter trying to stop me and my dog finding my deer. My buck walked into that field looking for the corn I put out, and the doe he thought he heard calling. There is no sport in still hunting. That deer has not a chance in getting away when he comes in range of your gun. A hunter a true hunter who wants to be challenged, will get out there on a dog drive and test his ability to kill a deer fairly. Shoot at a moving target and then see if you are as good a marksman as you brag to be!!!! Or listen to the dogs running, do you have what it takes to know that deer is about 5 sometimes 10 minutes ahead of the dogs and while you are sitting there on a dog drive basically still hunting on the ground that deer the dogs is running way on the other side of the property may have done slipped right by you and you never even saw it. Dog driving is in my blood. I am pleased to hear other young people have the same passion as me.

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from laplant wrote 4 years 47 weeks ago

i have never deer hunted with dogs but im an avid coonhunter. i think that it would be very fun. its illegal here where i live in vermont. from the stories i have read it sounds very exciting. i think that they should keep it cause it could help still hunters in the long run by getting deer moving.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Thanks laplant! Yes hunting deer with dogs is very exciting. I went yesterday to get their rabies vaccinations. They thought they were loading up to go hunting!!! Its a shame its illegal there because if you enjoy coonhunting its just as exciting. Last year I got more out of dog drives than still hunting. Its a socialable sport where we all come together and have good clean fun and we come up with meat everytime. It used to be people had to dog hunt because it was necessary to get meat to eat. It might get to be that way in the future. Its in our blood down here in the south. Those that have not done it, need to try it once with a club like ours. We have two meals a day, we have radios to communicate to others where we are and which way the deer are going. We (dog handlers) put a lot of work in to get the deer. But when you hear a pack of my black and tans and walkers mix with my buddies beagles running two of the biggest bucks ever seen in this part of the country it is worth every second of it. The best part I like about dog hunting is you get to see things you don't get to see everyday. Deer and Dogs are very intelligent animals. I have seen deer circle up and down a creek to loose the dogs jump the creek and the dogs pick up the trail and keep going. I guess thats the reason I have such good dogs, they are black and tan coon hounds. If they can track a coon they would almost certainly have to track a deer!!!Its in their blood too.

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from KingFisher907 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

you can dress it up anyway you want to make yourself feel better...
the fact is that hunting deer with dogs is not very sporting...cant run 'em down yourself? so you use dogs? no wonder the antis hate us so much...

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from KingFisher907 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

hell, why dont we all just use ATV's and handgrenades...

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from KingFisher907 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

the more I think about it, we need to stick together as hunters...just because we may not agree on methods, thats no reason to condemn each other...my apology and good hunting!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Thanks! That is more of what I was hoping to hear. We all love to hunt the way we seem to enjoy it best. My question to you, KingFisher907 is "Have you ever been on a dog drive?" I really wish you could come to our club and try it one time. There are a lot of dead set still hunters on our club that really enjoy dog drives just for the excitement and the fellowship with other hunters. I do realize that not all dog hunting clubs have the same ethics as we do, which give clubs like ours, a bad name. As you could also say some still hunters who do disrespectful things give you all a bad name. All I ask is where do we stop arguing among ourselves and stand together and stand up for our rights. And I wish you all the luck in your future hunting as well. I can't wait til this season. We shall compare deer!!!!!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Years ago, I believed hunting deer with dogs was great and everyone respected each other. Years have gone by and today the way dog owners trespassing themselves along with running their dogs across private property in total disregard to the owner and to run them anywhere anytime as they see fit even during closed season especially during archery to see it as a God given right. Not to count all the encounters of traveling down a forest road turning a corner and finding myself looking down a gun barrel with a red eyed drunken shooter standing on top of his in bed tool box with a case of Bud iced down and several empty cans tossed out in the ditch has totally changed the way I look at the use of Deer Hunting with dogs today.

Bottom line

Finding myself looking down numerous of times of a gun barrel and running dogs during archery season?

Go figure!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Sorry about that Clay Cooper. I am sorry you have had that experience. The club I hunt with is very strict about those kind of things. If you do it, you get kicked out and your money is nonrefundable. About the trespassing, well again we have thousands of acres of timber company land leased in the country where mostly nobody lives and we respect peoples properties when it comes to our dogs trespassing. We stay put. As for the alcohol if it is found on the club you are kicked out again. We are firm believers in safety first and believe that dog hunters and still hunters alike have the right to drink or what ever else but not on a club where everyone has access to loaded weapons. It just isn't safe. As for the bad experiences, I have had my share from still hunters. I was stopped by a very wealthy drunk landowner who has property connecting to where I still hunt. He not only told me in not so many words he didn't want me there, he later came back stole my corn and sabotaged my buck scrapes. He rode around shooting in the air, rode through my stand with his Gator. Just because I killed a big buck out of my stand. (I used my brains and sat my stand in a spot where the deer cross the field and come out to feed) On the club I hunt at, we have found where still hunters killed a mother and baby cut out the back strap and threw away every thing else. Wasting the meat. Down below my house my uncle has dogs at his house, who happen to be hound mixes. They used to jump deer right there at his house, just in their nature to do it, and run through all the gravel pits. Well the still hunters club that just behind his property, lets just say they put a stop to my uncles dogs period. I don't believe in killing small deer, or dogs for the sake of deer meat. Lets face it, deer meat is good but we aren't starving to death we are all out there doing it for the sport. You have bad apples in everything you go at. Don't give all dog hunters a bad name because you have had bad experiences with the ones around your house. I am a proud still hunter and dog hunter. But I just favor the dog hunting more I guess because I love my dogs and I love to mingle with good decent people who love to dog hunt as much as I do. And lets face it if you are spending around 40 to 50 dollars a week in dog food for your dogs like I am, you want them to run and bring home the meat!!!!!

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from benjismokin wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I still believe that this is not just unsporting, but its unethical as well! I am ashamed that some "so-called hunters" have come to this..but in the works of everything, charma!

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I do not agree with using dogs for deer hunting. This is for the dogs' sake, not yours.

There's enough I've seen/heard/read, here and elsewhere, about the general stupidity of hunters not smart enough to come here and learn.

To many bozos, your nice, trusting dog is going to look like either a deer or a coyote to some fool.

For duck hunting, in it's season, I've not heard of too many dogs mistaken for ducks. Watch out for my cousin, though.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

It has been both my understanding and experience running deer will drive them into harder to reach remote areas and then only to move after dark.

Deer will pattern hunters as they do my favorite place on Jacks place.

Far as hearing the dogs come, after the second day the deer are moved out and the dogs are running aimlessly barking to hear the heads rattle!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I don't know where you guys hunt but here in the country of SC hunting is nothing like what you describe. We have no problem with the deer moving to more "remote" areas. For the past five years we have averaged about 100 deer killed on our club which leases land in both SC and NC. We have over 6000 acres in which we hunt. Fortunately for us, Our dogs do not look like a coyote or deer because we have tracking collars and bells on them and another what kind of stupid hunter is going to pull a gun on a target without identifying it to begin with. As for the deer moving, the deer may leave one block of land onto another but it hardly ever leaves our leased land. And when they do, my friends the deer go right back to where they came from. Because we have pulled our dogs off the track of the deer going back into the hunt. Tell me one thing, how is hunting deer with a dogs unethical? What is so ethical and respectful about you hiding in a ground blind or up in a deer stand watching a corn pile and that poor deer unaware of you walk to get something to eat and gets shot 100 to 200 yards in front of you. Where is the sport in that? Anybody can go out there find a deer track and bait it and kill a deer. Not just anyone can go out there and jump a deer and in turn kill it. All your skills are tested on a dog hunt. You got to know where the deer run, what kind of trick the deer is going to play on your dogs, your shooting skills are tested. How well can you shoot at a moving target? Not everyone is cut out to dog drive, because lets face the truth they are just too scared of the work that goes into it. (Really all the work is done by the dog handlers) Another thing I want to add to this interesting topic. We hunt about 4 to 500 acres with maybe 2 to 3 packs of dogs. We have about 17 to 20 standers. These standers are standing on the ground with their shotgun, they are put out surrounding the block of land. Each stander is still hunting. Because from my experience and not just hear say, the deer are sometimes so far ahead of the dogs they have time to come to the stander turn go along parallel to them until they find a spot not covered or until the dogs push them on out. That deer has a chance to get away just like the stander has a chance to kill it if he stays his butt still. I have shot at deer that come out on me, because I wasn't marching like a soldier on duty!!

For the dogs, I will say this. My dogs are not stupid. My dogs are out there because they know if they do their job they will reap the benefits. No part of our deer is wasted. Yes, we feed our dogs the entrails and I might add they love to clean their teeth on a nice buck leg! My dogs do not run no road barking their head off. This hunting season I will take pictures and send it to you guys, my dogs go to those remote areas you talk about and bring the deer out to us. He is scratched all up doing what he loves to do. No this is not shameful because when he is home and running loose he don't have to hunt, but its nothing to hear him open up and run a deer all over this place. They love it just like you do. The only difference is they are willing to go get the deer in places you wouldn't put a foot.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I also want to add one more thing, we are not stupid either. Our club puts our land in a deer management program where you only kill so many does. We only dog drive three days a week and we never hunt the same tract straight in a row. We have never had a problem with the still hunters who are part of our club. We have dog drived a piece of land and that same day a still hunter go there to his stand and kill deer. My original question to this is why can't still hunters get along with dog hunters? I want to know something how would you feel if they banned baiting deer (which in my understanding is in the works) and prohibit the use of scent control and callers? Aren't these all tools to help you kill a deer. There is no difference in using dogs. Instead of arguing with one another we ought to be pulling together and stand up against non-hunters because it is slowly coming to where soon we are not going to be able to hunt at all, neither of us. UNITED WE STAND

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from Big O wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

GO Outdoorchick GO !

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Outdoorchic

As to know there are extremes to everything, from running deer with dogs to baiting just to name two. Sound management is can be not just by laws alone, but by us sportsmen! The real problem I’ve had with hunters with dogs and deer feeders is they hunt the same tract straight each and every day, shooting at anything that moves, using their rifle scopes as spotting scopes and totally annihilating the population.

Bottom line

I’m impressed with your Club and hope many good time to come!

+1 for you!

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from 007 wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

This is a good example of a virus that seems to be spreading thru the hunting community that could one day prove fatal, the "If I don't do it or approve of it, I'm not going to support it, regardless of how legal or ethical it is" flu. While you could not run fast enough to give me a cross bow, inline muzzle loader, or a .270 Winchester, and I've never hunted deer with dogs but would like to try it (I have bear hounds), if you're using them in a legal and ethical manner, then I as a fellow hunter should stand behind you. Just because I don't choose to do it that way doesn't always make it wrong. Having said that, yes, there are a lot of morons out there giving the rest of us a bad name ; road hunters, spot lighters, the greedy ones who always have to take way over the legal limit of whatever fish or game is at hand, trespassers, fence cutters, the list is endless, but not limited to those of us who thrill to the sounds of the chase. The PETAs of the world love to see us at each other's throats like this.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

BRAVO!!! I think you guys have finally found the middle ground I was so hoping to find. Thanks for being so understanding and respectful of how I choose to hunt. I hunt both ways, still hunting and dog hunting, and I would to love to branch out into other game. But along the way, I want to learn to hunt respectfully and honor the game laws and respect nonhunters rights and opinions. Me, myself, I want to show all hunters that dog hunting if done right and with the rights of others kept in mind is very thrilling and productive. If it isn't for you, then respect those that do find it enjoyable. I love hunting, it runs through my blood, and I hope the day never comes when I have to put my gun up and be told that I can't ever hunt again. Thanks you guys for all your opinions. I respect each of you as a fellow hunter, I hope that I have shown a little light on a subject that increasingly getting worse.

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from jbwill9 wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

If you like dog hunting because you like to hear the dogs run and love the thrill of the chase then take a camera. Coon hunters long ago figured out that they don't need to shoot the coon to love running with their dogs. They tree the coon, pet their dogs, and move on with a smile knowing that their dogs ran the coon well. Take pictures of all the deer your dogs jump, or bring friends so you can talk about all the good memories running your dogs. But if you want to put some meat in the freezer, leave the dogs in the kennel. If you needed the food to live I would say any means necessary, but I don't think that's the case. Find the sport in your sport. If your sport is hunting deer then hunt them. If your sport is running dogs then run them.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Sorry jbwilll9, but I kind of disagree with you. I don't eat coon and don't know of anyone who does, but why would I run a deer out and then not take it. I do need the meat because I happen to favor deer over any other kind. It tastes better and is more healthier for me. And for the dogs, I pet them and then give them their share, the most nutritious part the heart, liver, and entrails. Thanks for your opinion though, I do talk with all my buddies all 44 of them. And I can't tell you the candid conversations we have been having about what I have told them what has been wrote on here. My friends help me run my dogs so I don't have to bring them they are already there. Thats the best part about dog drives. We all come together and do what we love, we take our deer, we dress him there, and then we all eat our rewards. I can't tell you how fulfilling it is to hunt that morning, take a deer, and we dress him and cook him that day. The club I hunt with is my second family, and we all get along and love doing what we do.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Oh, by the way, did you know that veterinarians now are promoting a dog food that is primarily venison. They have found that venison fed to dogs have great health benefits. Might be why my dogs look so good and have great stamina.

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from jbwill9 wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

I agree with the health benefits of venison and the taste. I guess if your just hunting for meat I could see using dogs. I am more against trophy hunting with dogs because these bruts got to be as big as they are by being able to hide well and dogs are just too good at sniffing out their beds and stuff.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Outdoorchic

I completely debone all deer and elk down to scraps that are really not fit to eat for us, but my dogs LOVE it. I package all the "leavin's" for them. I never feed them the crap that is sold for canned dog food. Only organic lamb and rice based dry food plus organic meat scraps, mostly deer and elk and some goose. Both retrievers ( 2 and 10) and the dachshund (14) are in great shape.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Yeap I couldn't agree with you more. Where I live and hunt at we use all the deer. One of the reasons dog running is a big hit down here is because we are almost always guaranteed a successful hunt. I am not a trophy hunter, I am just a regular redneck hunter who believes in getting out there with her dogs and busting briars to get a deer. I could care less what I get as long as it is over 60 lbs. and not a doe with a baby. I absolutely do not shoot babies and mamas. Hey, during hunting season we save on feeding our dogs, they get all the trimmings!!! If you have ever seen a dog naw on a deer hindquarter before you know that they love what they do. I have to feed my dogs dry dog food with at least 27 % protein and 15 % fat. When they run so much the weight don't want to stick to them with that other cheap stuff. I even pour grease, bacon, hamburger, fish, any kind over the food.

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

I am a hound man myself and like a good chase. I can't see what the big deal is here. In my neck of the woods you can't run deer with dogs. I'm sure that in some parts of the country this is a traditional method of deer hunting and is accepted. I've said this before and I'll say it again, as hunters we have to keep working together. The anti's don't need any ammo to use against us. 007- once more you've said it well. Maybe with the exception of the 270 dinger!

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from steve182 wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

I have never hunted deer with dogs, nor do i want to, but i don't want to tell someone else their hunting traditions are no good and must come to an end any more than i want someone to tell me what i can/cannot do. Again, i can't knock what i haven't tried.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

Libertyfirst, thanks for your kind words. The .270 dinger is a joke among our deer gang and family around home. We torment the .270 users unmercifully, telling them that it's a woman's .30-06, they should trade up to a .303 British, or whatever else we can dream up. My son, while quite young, once told one of our .270 owners that "you'd be better off with my daddy's potato gun". Gotta like that. My brother-in-law has one, as does our pastor, and they get NO mercy come fall. Good hunting to you and yours.

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from BigWoodsHunter57 wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

I hate to say it but Im definetly taking the side of most of the commentors...I think its wrong, how can you even take pride in killing a large game animal if you dont even track it down and hunt it, the dogs do and you just follow them

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

Actually Mr. BigWoodsHunter57 its people like you that made me get on here and try to educate you. We as dog hunters do track down and hunt the deer we just do differently than you. It takes great skill to get out there find the deer trails, their beds, their rubs, their scrapes and know exactly where the deer is going to go out. The dogs job is only to move the deer at the time of our choosing. Mostly to go in and move hopefully that big buck. There is no way on gods green earth me or you or anybody else can go where them dogs can go. And who would want to follow them. Thats where still hunters come in. ALL deer drives have still hunters. Every stander dropped off on their stand on the perimeter of the hunt is a still stander. Now I have seen people march on their stand, smoke on their stand, eat and drink sodas. Then they ask why the deer turned when it came up to them. Then you have still-hunters who come on a deer drive and cant kill a single deer because all they know is shooting a still target!!! I am telling you something I saw something last year I couldn't believe. The dogs was running down the woodline from me and I kept looking out in front of me and to the sides. I knew they rolling fast so the deer was just a little ways in front of them. I looked in front of me again and all of a sudden I saw lightning. Yes, that buck was stretched out flat of the ground and was going so fast I blinked he was gone. Much less trying to get a shot. If you enjoy to hunt as I am sure all of you do, if its legal in your county and state this season I challenge you to find a decent dog hunting club and try it. If you choose to go out there and not still hunt on your stand you are not going to see a thing. But I promise if you go out and do as I do, get on your stand, get comfortable in your chair or own your knee, and sit there perfectly still do not get on the phone or radio just sit there and open your ears and listen to the dogs. You become one with nature, and you start to hear the same things as if you were up in that stand 20 feet up in the air. Dogs are the real hunters it is true. But it takes a skilled hunter to get on his stand and bring down the deer when it comes at him at full speed or to be able to hear that deer sneak up right behind. Hunting is hunting. Some people find some hunting techniques more enjoyable than others. But all of it is done with the same purpose. To harvest meat. I don't know about all of you but here in the south we hunt deer because that is mostly what we eat. We hunt it the way so we will be promised some meat at the end of the day. And we usually harvest about 4 to 5 deer every drive.

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from huntcamp wrote 4 years 41 weeks ago

I havenever hunted deer with dogs and never will. It is illegal here in WI. Doesn't mean it is wrong. If it is legal by all means go for it. To those saying that dogs run everywhere and ruin it for everybody, some do, but you know waht there are plenty of idiots that do not hunt with dogs that are far worse. Deer will come back. I do believe however that taken deer without the aid of dogs is much harder than with. When they are chased they do not see or smell their surroundings as well. We drive with people walking the woods, pretty effective also. i have hunted pigs with dogs. Did not find it all that challenging. Yes shots at running deer are exremely difficult. Something that I have practiced extensively. Set up a long cable and put a sliding piece of plywood with a deer drawn on it. Shot at it while it was bobbing up and down as it went through at 100 yards. Like I said before just because i do not do it and necassarily agree with it, doesn't mean it is wrong. As long as it is legal fire away.

Outdoorchic, Stick to your guns, do not let these bullies push you from what you believe.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 41 weeks ago

Thanks Huntcamp! I love hunting period. I just dont get why all of hunters cant agree to disagree that everyone has their style. We tried man driving a piece of land that the timber company we rent from banned dog running on. We had no luck at all. Of course there was a lot of the land we just couldn't get into. Where there is water thats where the deer tend to head when they feel threatened. Deer I shot at last year on a dog drive doing its bobbing as you put it, I shot him a gut shot unfortunately. So we tracked a good blood trail across this big bean field. Found where the deer went in and we couldn't go any further because it was a beaver pond. We put our tracking dogs on the track and she went in baying and when we couldn't get in to her she came back bloodied. So I know I got the deer but it was in a place that no sane person would attempt to go. Hot weather, Moccasins, rattlesnakes. Nope not for me. Although I did go in as far as I could. With that said there are plenty of idiot hunters of all styles of hunting. My belief and hope by debating this issue and many more concerning hunting is to educate people that we are all hunters and we don't need to fight or grumble about each other. This is a dying sport whether any of you know it. How you gonna hunt if they take our guns? Stand together, quit all this funnel vision thinking. There is a big world out there, there is room for us all. And believe it or not at the club I hunt at there is room for both still hunters and dog hunters, duck hunters and deer hunters. If we can all hunt together on over 4000 acres, I am sure all of you can hunt beside private properties with different people.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 41 weeks ago

Thanks Huntcamp! I love hunting period. I just dont get why all of hunters cant agree to disagree that everyone has their style. We tried man driving a piece of land that the timber company we rent from banned dog running on. We had no luck at all. Of course there was a lot of the land we just couldn't get into. Where there is water thats where the deer tend to head when they feel threatened. Deer I shot at last year on a dog drive doing its bobbing as you put it, I shot him a gut shot unfortunately. So we tracked a good blood trail across this big bean field. Found where the deer went in and we couldn't go any further because it was a beaver pond. We put our tracking dogs on the track and she went in baying and when we couldn't get in to her she came back bloodied. So I know I got the deer but it was in a place that no sane person would attempt to go. Hot weather, Moccasins, rattlesnakes. Nope not for me. Although I did go in as far as I could. With that said there are plenty of idiot hunters of all styles of hunting. My belief and hope by debating this issue and many more concerning hunting is to educate people that we are all hunters and we don't need to fight or grumble about each other. This is a dying sport whether any of you know it. How you gonna hunt if they take our guns? Stand together, quit all this funnel vision thinking. There is a big world out there, there is room for us all. And believe it or not at the club I hunt at there is room for both still hunters and dog hunters, duck hunters and deer hunters. If we can all hunt together on over 4000 acres, I am sure all of you can hunt beside private properties with different people.

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from country road wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

Outdoorchic, your club sounds like the model all other clubs should try to emulate when it comes to dog hunting deer. I grew up with dog hunting and agree that it's a lot of fun and can be very effective. I now prefer hunting without dogs and have no problem with those do. Unfortunately, over the past couple of decades most of my experiences with dog hunters have been with those who aren't members of your club and are pretty much at the other end of the spectrum. There are too many slobs and worse in all segment of the hunting population and we good guys on both sides have to make it our job to do the right thing and respect each other---take the high road.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

I agree country road. The high road is the better road. Hard and difficult but sometimes leaving something unsaid makes hard feelings between the two type of hunters lesser. People do and say some terrible things in the heat of the moment and then regret it later on. Besides the cycle has got to be broke sometime. It is respectable hunters like you and our fellow bloggers that will bring the sport good attention instead of the humiiliation that some people heap upon the art of hunting!!!!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

I agree country road. The high road is the better road. Hard and difficult but sometimes leaving something unsaid makes hard feelings between the two type of hunters lesser. People do and say some terrible things in the heat of the moment and then regret it later on. Besides the cycle has got to be broke sometime. It is respectable hunters like you and our fellow bloggers that will bring the sport good attention instead of the humiiliation that some people heap upon the art of hunting!!!!

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Well with me its a moot question because it has not been legal in any place I have lived to run hounds for deer, if it had been I probably would have done so, because as you said they will be better for traking one that ran a distance and light is bad.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Welcome Moishe!! Dogs are really helpful in bad conditions...dog hunting has been legal here Chesterfield County, SC as long as I can remember..I love to use the dogs...they love the sport and when you really want some venison, if you know what you doing you are almost guaranteed a deer...I will say though with everything becoming more populated..dog hunting has been dwendling and is only done in the extreme country and on large clubs...fortunately for me I still live in the country and is located in a place where timber companies and farmers own most of the land between me and the Great Pee Dee River...so I have quite a few deer with less complaints...if you havent never did it you are really missing out on a treat!!! I will keep you all posted on my hunts this year, so you all can see just what I mean..dogs add a skill to hunting that makes it more of a challenge and tests your skills as a hunter and a person!!! Wont be long before opening day here Sept. 15!!!!

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 38 weeks ago

Thank you Outdoorchic! I love to hunt birds with dogs, and f I ever have a chance I will try your WAY ALSO.

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from littleskin wrote 4 years 28 weeks ago

o.k. i sat here and read everybody,s comments about this. i grew up in south carolina and my daddy always had dogs. he loved these dogs...no different than anyone having one or so as just a pet. i have dogs now and they all mean just as much to me as anyone,s "pet". they're my buddies ya know...just ask anyone who knows me. as far as all this talk about "sport", i always give the same example. if you had the choice, which would you choose? either someone coming in to your environment...your "backyard" and giving you the choice of chase where you know every inch of your "hood" and you have the speed to easily get a substantial lead to determine your means of escape......' or would you rather someone just set up you a picnic table full of good eats right there in the middle of your yard and then pick you off from 20 or 30 feet up...... kinda like a sniper....while you feast away. deer gettin stll hunted kinda feel like a basketball team with their fingers crossed while they helplessly watch a guy from the other team shoot free throws to win the game with no time left on the clock....they don't have much say in the outcome of things then do they? if you stll hunters ever do get to shoot at a running deer, you might ought to thank me.....i just improved your shootin' skills and maybe even made it a little more "sportier" for ya......not unless you're just one of those people who would rather shoot a dove lit on a power line than shoot him when he comes in fast and darting right and left. you know....like a deer out ahead of a pack of dogs???? i met a fellow the other day who i call a "walmart hunter". he done gone to walmart and bought him some corn, a rifle, game camera, and a huntin' license and all of sudden, boy ol' boy he's a deer hunter. stick in there dog hunters, trends and fads are usualy what fades.....not tradition. good luck and be safe out there.....always wearing that orange. i'll still be wearing mine when i'm still out there at 10,11,12:00 at night huntin' and trackin' my dogs so i can bring them all home....just cause they're my buddies.

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from BioGuy wrote 4 years 28 weeks ago

Being from the north, I have never hunted with dogs. However, I can complely understand and respect the need to defend a successful hunting method that dates back to our ancient ancestors. As for your question, here are a couple reasons that I can think of for introducing a ban on dogs.

From a biological standpoint, running deer with dogs is energetically expensive and stressful for deer. Some may make the arguement that deer drives do the same thing, but as many drive hunters can attest to, deer can easily escape a deer drive. Escaping the nose of a well trained hound...not so easy.

From a legal standpoint, deer have no regard for property boundaries, and neither do the dogs chasing them. That may cause issues with nearby landowners, especially when it's time to get your dogs back. In the mean time, if your dogs are chasing deer on a property you cannot legally access, the deer are still being chased, which brings us back to stress and energy use.

However, there is no reason to let another time honored and very successful hunting tradition die. Instead of allowing a ban to take over, I would suggest pushing for a short period of time where dog hunting is allowed. A 3-day dog season should be more than enough to put meat in the freezer, keep deer stress and energy use low, and keep landowner complaints constrained to a short time-frame. Keep up the fight!

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from jason rieke wrote 4 years 28 weeks ago

I've never known people who hunt with dogs, and I've never seen them either. I wouldn't like to see people running their dogs in public land. They can be to loud. They scare the smaller animals away like squirrels. I have never been on a deer hunt where I haven't seen squirrels. Also if your puttin your sights on a deer and some random dog comes and scares it away, wouldn't you be pissed? I can see how it would be fun, but I would never do it on public land.

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from buckhuntr wrote 4 years 27 weeks ago

I'm from here in SC as well, and i hunt both. Stand hunt for 6 days a week, and dog hunt on Saturdays. Dog hunting is a thrill if you've never gotten to do it before. Yes, it does interfere with your stand hunting on that day, but rather than create problems, i just go along with it. Sadly, i dont think it'll be around for my kids though. i just know what dog hunting means to other hunters, so i'll let them enjoy it.

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from HoundHunter00 wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Im from Fl and I run deer hounds and I love it. The sound of the pack is what I spend most of my pay check on. From training my pups to running my older dogs it never gets old and as general gun season comes around im geting the fever and i hope the sport will still be around so my kids can get the same feeling and have fun with it. Iv come across some people who say deer hunting with dogs is like shooting fish in a barrel I disagree strongly. The reason I say that is because you have to pick you weapon of choice. See the way I hunt is, I use both a shot gun and a rifle so you have to choose which to use in the situation. Just last year I missed a 8 point 8 yards away because I thought the deer was way in front of the dogs and i had a rifle with a powerful scope and the same with a shot gun the deer could come out at 70 yards and you have a shotgun. Another reason is most all the deer iv shot at have been running full blast at about 20-200 yards and ill give it to you if you can hit a deer move fast as it can go at 175 yards. Running dogs is a skillful sport and most still hunters that dislike dog hunting have never tried it. I hunt in a national forest and the law is strongly enforced so theres no drinking and hunting with out having the state geting its intake so were helping the wildlife while conserving it with the laws. And were creating jobs in the community such as feed mills my dogs need to eat. And just in the past 2 years 4 feed houses have open becasue of new hound hunters such as me geting in to the sport. So I leave it to you. Every one has a way they hunt my is running Dogs =D

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Thanks for all your opinions!!! I do respect each and everyone of you for your style of hunting! But there is one thing I do have to clear up, well a couple of things....as far as one stand hunting and a dog come by and "mess" you up. Remember that not only hunting dogs are loose in our big outdoors!!! I have done heard of plenty of tales where coyotes have chased the deer right off of your "bait" piles. Here in SC the coyotes have become such a problem that on several occassions we as a club have quit the pursuit of the deer and started aiming at killing the coyote that was chasing the deer!!! In one day we harvested two of these deadly animals. I cant tell you how many times I have had a house dog come through my stand!! So what do I do tell people they cant have pets no longer? Another thing I must point out, squirrels arent going anywhere because of dogs!!! They are in the trees, and deer dogs ARE NOT interested anything but deer. I have sat on my stand on a deer drive just this past sat. and watch deer dogs track up and down this trail, the squirrels all around me playing and doing their thing, then I watched as the deer then the dogs come right down the trail and nothing was disturbed!!! I must point out as a dog handler myself, that while true a dog do give a deer a run for his money, that deer has just as good a chance of getting away as a deer on a man drive....there are places where I hunt that you just cant stand off that good and believe me the deer know that just as good as we do....we have been fortunate that in the area we hunt we can stand it off pretty tight and in the occassion that the deer do get by, we have been lucky to get there and get the dogs before they ever leave our land. Sure there are and always will be hunters that dont respect other peoples land and will go in after their dogs and run their dogs through other peoples land...but thats not everyone. But let me remind you there are just as many crooked still hunters, no change that there are more. Because on a dog drive, our only interest is to run our dogs, let our dogs do what they were born to do, kill the deer that they work hard to find and run. Our goal is to harvest meat and have fun doing it with all of our friends that share that joy of listening to dogs sing on the wind. Still hunters, not all but most, are out for the trophy. They are mostly solitude people who sit up in a stand for hours on end all decked out in their camo and scent cover waiting on a deer to amble out in front of them and pick them off before they even know what hit them. Productive but where is the sport? Where is the story that you can hand down to your kids? Where is the intelligence that a hunter claims to have? I am a proud dog hunter, and my heart beats for the next time I hear my dogs open up and start singing their hearts out "I am coming, I am on your track!!!" Hunting deer with dogs, I know is coming to an end, but through this message board my hope is to get enough of awareness out there that people who do not dog hunt will at least change their mind enough not to raise so much uproar that we loose our right to hunt...I mean is it really fair to us to take our away all of our joy just to please one side? Cant we find a neutral ground where dog hunting will not be banned?

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Just to let you know we had opening day of deer hunting in North Carolina yesterday. The weather was glorious. The pack in good voice and the game active. The camaradeship of the hunting club was in high spirits. Overall, a great day in the field. I still hunt and dog hunt and find pleasure in both.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Have'nt started "dogs" here yet. I love that song they sing !
Glad you had a "Great" day for it there in N.C. DC. How'd ya do ?

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

The club bagged 2 deer, a 13 y.o. got a spike, a small 7 point. I let a spike go, and saw 3 does. Saw a fox sneak past as well.
Lets face it, still hunting is nice and I like getting away from everything for a while, the dog hunt is the social interaction. One of our boys left the club with a good part of his shirt tail gone. lol. He fired 5 times and missed them all.

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

Our club has 1500 acres to hunt on, it abuts another hunting club that has 5000 acres and surrounding us is 35000 acres of game land. We really don't interfere with anybody else. I meant the 13 year old shot a spike buck, another 7 point was taken as well by another hunter.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

LOL ! Thought "we" were the only people doing the "shirt-tail" thing LOL. Thanks for the memorys of MY first "cut" !

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

Just to let you guys know, we too have land in NC that opened yesterday....couldnt have had a better hunt!!! We ended up with taking a 11pt. 146 buck, a nice 3 pt. and a doe. The 11 pt was pratically a gift from a joining hunting club. About three packs of dogs started trailing that buck and when my uncle and another guy Ricky finally got to the dogs in a beaver dam on a creek they were in waist deep in water and the deer was just standing there with about 6 dogs on him...all he had was a broke foot. But the dogs had him bayed and he wasnt going anywhere. The guy ended up shooting in the air startling the dogs long enough to get a kill shot on the deer. Then they had to float the deer down stream to this big cutdown where we had come in on another hunting club to get the deer, dogs, and the hunters!!! But yes we got permission!! Nope Big-O you are not the only ones doing the shirt tail thing...I like to had mine cut last Sat. if my uncle hadnt stepped up and paid the five dollar miss fee!!! Tried shooting a big nanny with rockets under her too far away with OO buckshot. Wasnt too successful! But thats all the fun isnt it, the stories we have to tell and pass down. Hey DC Blue what area do you all hunt? Our land is Richmond County on the state line. With Wallace, SC.

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

DC Blue is actually the name of our hunting club in Moore County. Just outside of Aberdeen about an hours drive from Richmond County. We abut the Mecklenberg Hunting Club. Sounds like a good day for you as well. We have a posterboard with shirt tails on it. Some go back a long time ago.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

HOW ABOUT SOME PICS !

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

Yeap, I know where you are talking about. At least the general area at least. My uncle ended up in Rockingham one Christmas getting his black and tan coon hound!!! We had a dog that had to go the Aberdeen Animal Hospital. We join up with quite a few clubs around us. Marks Creek, State Line, Marshwood, A & D Hunting Club and still another still hunting club dont know the name of that one. We have never had any trouble with the still hunting clubs as some of these guys on here want to say goes on. These guys actually benefit from us pushing the big bucks their way!! We had a wonderful time Saturday. A great day of just doing what we love best!

There is one thing I would like to comment on to all those dead bent on still hunting and only still hunting. Monday am my uncle (dog man) was sitting at my table where he just got through eating breakfast. It was 9 am. and the phone rings. It was a still hunter who shot a 4 pt. buck which came under his stand. He had a bad shot and the buck was hit in the gut. He asked my uncle to bring his deer dog over there and track his deer!!! My uncle put his dog "Big Mama" on the track and she took off! She went a little ways and got some guts. She eat that and kept going eating deer guts the whole way. She was singing a song that only a dog man knows what I am talkiing about. She had that deer and she knew it! She dragged my uncle through a thicket of briars around a field through some pines through more briars and finally ended up behind the stand that the still hunter had shot from! A complete circle. Point is: Still Hunters want to go out to their stands and some make bad shots and then call on a dog man to track their deer through all kinds of conditions. My uncle was all torn up from them briars, but he didnt grumble. He laughed it off and actually enjoyed it because Big Mama did what she loves to do. Dont go dis-ing dogs and hunting with them because you may never know when you will be sitting up in your deer stand wishing you had a good dog to track that deer you know you hit but cannot find. I shot a buck last year and he didnt bleed out, and went on in a bean field. Have you ever tried looking for a deer in a bean field? Thank God, my uncle had my dog to bring and he went right to the deer. One less deer wasted. There is a statement you hear a lot in the hunting world. It is "Hunt Responsibly". You know one way that can be broken down is if you are a hunter, then respect every way of hunting. Dont complain about hunting with dogs, because there is far less deer wasted with dogs than there are by still hunters. Dogs dont quit, they arent scared of water, briars, or even the deer for that matter. I have done seen it all!!! Dogs mean to get what they hunt. Maybe people need to be a little more like the dogs. Dont shoot a deer still hunting if you not going to work to get the deer!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

IF any of you guys would like to see some pics of our club you can check us out at www.myspace.com/cashlakehuntingclub. We believe in responsible safe hunting and most of all we believe in providing an environment where anyone can come and hunt and have fun doing it!!!!

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from Big O wrote 4 years 22 weeks ago

Hey Outdoorchic, Gun/Dogs Start here on SAT !

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from kodnocker wrote 4 years 21 weeks ago

I think the reason some people get worked up over dogs is the fact that their sense of smell is so much greater than ours, as well as eyesight. This would give the advantage to the hunter running the dogs. Humans can walk right by a deer bedded down and the deer will sit there. If a dog winds the scent, they are on the trail. So i can see how some hunters might view this as unfair. In Ohio it is illegal to hunt deer with dogs, so for me it is not so much an issue. If it is legal in your state, and that is the way you want to hunt, you are within your right. I don't know that I would hunt that way, but I have never tried. I sometimes get crap for using a crossbow during archery season. Just get out, follow the rules, and kill a monster trophy buck!

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from steelheader wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

I grew up hunting with dogs as well in West Virginia but don't think it's much of a sport compared to the skills needed to stalk a bih whitetail.

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from codyboyd wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

i agree with steelheader. i love the challenge of hunting and patterning them and I will never give it up. I love what i do. here in wisconsin, the dnr has the right to shoot a dog if it is chasing a deer. what do ya think of that?

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from codybrotz14 wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

i think no dogs it should be fair chase always

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from Big O wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

To Outdoorchic-
Took TWO deer today in front of a beagle and a "mutt".
Doe and a nubbin(button-buck).
GOD I LOVE THEM DOGS ! LET EM' "SING" !

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from doghunter wrote 4 years 19 weeks ago

will just say this. we hunt with dogs not because we have to or because we cant kill a deer without dogs. we hunt with them because we love doing it and love the sound of your own hunting dogs running a deer. i could go out anyday and kill a deer still hunting, i know this because every time i do still hunt i see at least 10 deer(bucks and does). also i would never kill adeer still hunting unless it was a nice buck becuase i just dont get much excitement (unless im bow hunting). hunting deer with dogs is way more challengeing because hitting a deer running flat out is way harder than sniping them out of a treestand. and dont even think about arguing with that last statement unless youve actually tried it. all in all, with all the anti hunting people these days all hunters should get along because if we dont hunting in general will go on a downward spiral.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 19 weeks ago

My home state is a Dog Hunting state. I grew up with the sound of walkers, beagles and blueticks baying and runnin deer.
My recent experiences with the dog runners is that they will run their dogs thru other peoples property to run a deer their way. It has affected my hunts when I've still hunted private property where dogs appear baying and running deer close to my hunting area.

Though I do not disagree with the use of dogs I do do disagree with them left out overnight, running on other property, I almost hit atleast 8 dogs last year driving to /from my hunting area. I've found hunting dogs that were emaciated, in piss poor shape as well throughout my years hunting my home state.

The owners have the responsibility to maintain the health and welfare of their dogs.

It's also the owners responsibility to keep track of their dogs and not run them on other peoples property to ensure they get a deer run to the adjacent property they are on.
Especially if they know someone else is hunting the other property.
MUTUAL RESPECT!

I own a walker hound I plan to use her to track not run deer, rabbit etc and she goes in the woods with me and leaves with me!

I go out of my way to return a hound or any animal to its rightful owner if found by me. And I've found and returned 2 dogs this year alone. But some of the owners don't seem to give a sh#t about their dogs.

Not knocking you or other dog hunters ... Like I said I grew up around the sights and sounds of them runnin and baying. It still gets your blood goin and breaks up the monotany of a long days hunt... but it should be done more responsibly.

Traditions are important and ensuring traditions are passed on are more important good luck and I hope you continue to pass on your tradition and can continue to get the blood pumpin by the sound of hounds hot on a trail. Do it responsibly.

I dislike hunt clubs.. bad experiences with them.. but thats another story.

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from stephensfamily@... wrote 4 years 19 weeks ago

We are all out there for similar reasons. Different areas do things differently. If you don't want to hunt with dogs don't go to the states that allow it. and visa verse. As far as the trophy aspect that is totally false. Almost all of the trophy bucks come from states that don't hunt with dogs. That's not to say they don't come from the states that do allow dogs. Just most don't.
Remember just because we don't agree with different techniques we don't need to give the anti's any ammo against us. good hunting

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 18 weeks ago

I have tried it and even tho I was lucky enough to kill a 10 pt. I dont like it! What I shot depended entirely on what the dogs were running. I got to thinking "this is not fair chase!" It is no sport at all. What is fair chase is to learn a trophy bucks habits and hunt him fair and square. Another thing that I didnt like was that was no way we could keep the dogs from tresspassing on someone else land and a landowner should have the right to keep deer dogs off his land. I finally got enough money to buy 120 ac. so that I could hunt in peace and quite,and I had made up my mind that I would not never sink low enough to shoot a deer in front of a dog again. I had to sue the timber co. that joined me because they leased to doggers that allowed their dogs to run my land. When the dogging stopped it took 3 years for the deer to start moving as normal. Dont tell me about baiting because I have seen in Alabama, Georgia and the Carolina's where they turn the dogs out on a big pile of corn in the middle of the woods. That is much worse than hunting over a greenfield or under oak trees.

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from doghunter wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

i didnt say anything about baiting i said that "sniping a deer out of a tree stand is easy" any way for that matter is easier. especially for the trophy buck hunter because once you find him you can predict every move he will make. i still cant figure out why people keep disagreeing that it is harder to still hunt than dog hunt, i know for a fact that its not because i do both. dont get me wrong i love still hunting and dog hunting to death but dog hunting, as far as a challenge goes, has got still hunting beat by a long shot. i will give an explanaiton from the dog hunter/owner perspective. firstly you have to make sure that youre tracking equipment is in check because the last thing you want is coming home at 12:00 at night with 1 dog missing. and waiting those 5 hours till sunlight to try and get up with him again. secondly the deer are never predictable. a deer, especially a buck (smarter), will do amazing things to try to get the dogs off his trail: ex. throw them off on a doe, submurge in water with just their noses exposed which are amazing things that i will never forget for the rest of my life or thirdly they may just break for it leaving your dogs behind. also dont forget the shooting aspect,its takes a darn good shot most of a time to kill a deer dog hunting. its things like that that make me love the sport (not to mention 3 generations before me).

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Dog hunter; you state that "deer are never predictable. a deer especially a buck (smarter) will do amazing things" yet you state that a stand hunter can predict every move that he makes. Not hardly.I really dont think anyone believes that sniping one out of a tree stand is eaiser than "sniping" one in front of dogs. The difference (as I see it) is that you have to hunt him and set up you stand where you think he may travel vs. letting a pack of dogs run him to you

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Outdoorchic, you make running deer with dogs sound like a lot of fun, and exciting. I'm still not convinced of the ethics. In one hunt you described three packs were chasing one buck. The buck was run until he broke a foot/leg. When the trackers finally caught up they had to scare six dogs off the deer so they could make the final kill. That is not an attractive image for hunting from my perspective. You are correct that some still hunters make bad shots. I have always believed that you don't take a shot unless you are sure of the kill. An ethical kill is a clean and quick kill. Running shots are by their nature a throw of the dice. Some hunters are more skilled than others. But, the chance of wounding the deer is high when you are taking a running shot. I am sure that with dogs you can still usually collect that wounded deer. Being dependent on dogs to track your wounded deer speaks either to poor skill or a questionable method. By far my favorite hunting style is the spot and stalk for antelope and muleys in western South Dakota. I've done my share of still hunting in Michigan, which is far more interesting with a bow than a gun. But to actively get out on foot, then sneak and crawl to within 100 yds (40 yds with a bow) of the game is challenging and great fun.

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from fsu33952 wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I believe that the sad truth as that many dog hunters are making things bad for the ones that do things the proper way. Here in the area I live in we have both a fall and spring turkey season, so I do very little deer hunting. The fall season goes out on December 31st so I went running dogs with my nephew this past season. We hunt on US Forest service land and antlered bucks are all that are legal. When we went to get on the stands, I was told "it if it is brown it is down". I told them that I wouldn't risk getting in trouble for shooting an illegal deer. They told me that "we had to shoot does in order to keep the dogs of running through onto private land". These guys turned the dogs loose and it sounded like a miniature war. These guys shoot from roads, drive like maniacs to cut dogs off, turn dogs loose on top of areas where still hunters had already taken a stand, drove over and around forest service blocked roads, on top shooting illegal deer. On top of all of that these dogs had been hunted everyday for over a week. They were worn out. I grew up deer hunting with dogs but had not done it for years. I think if it is done legally and ethically then it is great, but people I will tell you now that the consensus belief in the world is that dog hunters are outlaws. For those of you that do it the right way, you need to reel in your friends that are outlaws before they ruin it for everyone. I ended up and called ASPCA to go out and check on these dogs that I saw. They have been given a warning and two weeks to fix their issues or their dogs will be seized.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

If you are a property owner and have problems with Trespassing dogs, hunters trespassing to retrieve dogs, and dogs doing damage CONSIDER this; The timber company that leases to them can be SUED ! In my case I had several trespassing dog reports ( had to insist that the warden make the report) two trespassing to retrieve dogs reports (showed the wardens tracks where they went in) and one dogs doing damage (killed some chickens) wardens saw the remains. I took my documents to a lawyer and paid a retainer and he contacted the timber company who revoked their lease and made no dog hunting a condition of futher leases. I didnt recieve any money other than attorney's fees but it sure fixed my problem.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Get into a lot of legal jumbo that i tend to avoid if possble. Instead of creating a hunting club full of members who have no need of you What about talking to them about reimbursment and tresspass issues.Big guns going of in the woods around close would make me think a little about my dicissions to bring a lawsuit.Who you going to sue when the yotes get your chickens?

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from deerslayer1234 wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I have never used dogs for deer, nor will I ever. As long as it is done legally I won't tell you not to, but it seems a little unfair to the deer.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Outlaw, Or course I tried talking to them before I paid my money to a lawyer.The response that I got was " My dog cant read posted, I cant help where he runs and I'll go where I have to catch my dog" You are right about the big guns. I recieved many threats and intimidation untill one of them went to jail. I can get tough with you.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I have seen a group of good walker dogs run deer thirty miles and believe me have people trying to cut them off at every turn and until someone shoots the deer they are not going to stop,they will be strung out over many miles as the slower and older dogs fall out.It's work to dog hunt.I no longer live in the area but it's my heritage.Used dogs to catch hogs,tree squirrels and rabbits and to duck hunt along with some pointers to quail hunt with.It' a culture

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

257ack... Sounds like you had an issue with a hunt club like one around here that thought the property adjacent to their lease was theirs to hunt too.

They'd try to run other hunters that had written permission off the adjacent property.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

alabamoutlaw: you're right it's a culture and a heritage

Walkers, Blueticks both breeds and many others will run a deer into the next county if they can. They are bred to run and built for it.

I don't run deer with my Walker but I do use her to pick up a trail. I'd rather she run rabbit they atleast stay in the general area of where they're flushed.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Exclusive hunting clubs, running deer with dogs, worrying about chasing deer on whoever's property ... I'd hang up my guns if it ever came to that around here. I don't hunt in drives either. That business of sitting on your butt and waiting for someone or a pack of dogs to chase an animal by you is not hunting by my definition. When I'm too old to walk, I'm done hunting. I've said it before, hunting is about "seek and destroy" not sitting on your can. It is legal to hunt moose with dogs here but the dog needs to be specially licensed. Still, in more than twenty years of hunting up here in NW Ontario, I have yet to see anyone actually using dogs. Most everyone I know looks down on it. You hound hunters should try spending a day (or, as I do, a couple of weeks) in the bush alone on the trail. You will take note of things all around you that you never noticed before. Trust me, you'll never go back to gang hunting with dogs or people on some canned hunt preserve.

Deer chased all over the place are not only stressed, they're not going to taste very good either. At least, not nearly as good as they would if not heated up before being shot. Any of us who have been at this long enough know that score well enough (antelope that have been chased around aren't fit for dogfood!). And call me a softy if you want, but terrorizing deer just doesn't cut it. I at least try to get the drop on the animal and send it to heaven in an instant. I feel an ethical obligation to make every effort to cause it as little grief as possible. Chasing deer with dogs is all about causing the deer grief.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Dogs are not only a means of hunting but are a companion in the camp and memories are relished years after the animals demise.Different areas of our greatly diverse nation have to improvise in hunting tactics that were implemented during colonial times and some see no reason to change these tactics.I have been on deer slips and it is ethical by all means,No high fences and surely not like the domestic elk hunts on the Outdoor channel.I know when i am crawling in a hog pen and not just crossing a fence.To each his own as long as no law are broken.
Alabamaoutlaw

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from 007 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Ontario Honker, I respect your opinion but politely suggest that you should not criticize another's passion until you try it. I don't hound hunt for deer but thrill to the sound of a good bear chase, and spending a week with our deer gang (which goes back to the early 50's and is as much reunion as anything) making deer drives means the world and all to me. Walk a mile in my Wolverines before you look down on me.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry if I came off as being critical. Perhaps I'm just too passionate. I have walked more than a mile in the same sort of shoes (mine are White's boots). I formerly hunted with a group and I have done the drive gig. Many times. It's all about coordination, planning, etc. Too many rules for me. The freedom of hunting alone on the track is addicting. It's as genuine as you can get. Try setting up a wall tent and hunting alone for a week or two without seeing a soul except mother nature and you'll never want to stop.

I do hunt birds with dogs and I love to watch them work, but they don't chase the birds for miles. More like feet or yards. My passion is compassion when it comes to hunting. My desire to "make a kill" will never exceed my respect for the animal or bird I intend to kill. I will not leave a crippled goose in the decoys simply to attract more birds. And I won't run deer down with dogs. Guys will use dogs to hunt pigs, coons, cats, and bears and argueably in some situations that is the only effective way to thin the numbers and keep things in balance. I don't do it but I guess I'm glad someone else does. For deer (whatever the species), it's not necessary. It's more effective, I'm sure. But again, I'm not going to put my desire to make a kill above the animal's right to not be put through any undue stress.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

My Great Granfather,Grandfather and my father had a lease granted to them during the world wars to some Islands in the Mississippi river consisting of thousands of acres,in trade that they would sell thier stock to the U.S.Government for the soldiers fighting abroad.They raised cattle and hogs and without dogs it wouldn't happened,Between logging floating timber and commerical fishing it was a hand to mouth living for them.A deer meant the difference in eating and not and usually it was on Island were they didn't bother anybody.How long will it be before people consider a Pointer as an unfair advantage.Or a beagle for chasing a bunny.I have watched deer that were being chased by dogs and seen the bucks slip to the side and sneak and the wise old does circle on thier track and stand and watch the dogs go by.It is a dieing culture,As our hunting world is gobbled up in five to ten acre tracks hunting as we know it will vanish.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

O/H, We probably treed 25-30 bear last year and only took seven, as our passion lies mostly in the chase, ergo our dogs, choosing to pull the trigger only when the conditons are perfect or otherwise dictated. Neither do we always tree every bear we start on, just like the "outlaw" says above regarding deer with dogs. Thanks for your clarificaiton too. I've never done it your way either. Regards........

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Ontario Honker is on the mark with his statement:"Exclusive hunting clubs, running deer with dogs, worrying about chasing deer on whoever's property ... I'd hang up my guns if it ever came to that around here." Private hunt clubs are a threat to hunting and the health of the deer herd in Michigan and many states. If any of you prefer private clubs, then hunt at your local country club and stop fencing the public out and the deer in.

But, back to the topic... a month ago I wrote about my concerns with the ethics of deer hunting with hounds. I'd like to hear more discussion of the ethics. Restating my main points: I have always believed that you don't take a shot unless you are sure of the kill. An ethical kill is a clean and quick kill. Running shots are by their nature a throw of the dice. Some hunters are more skilled than others. But, the chance of wounding the deer is high when you are taking a running shot. I am sure that with dogs you can still usually collect that wounded deer. Being dependent on dogs to track your wounded deer speaks either to poor skill or a questionable method.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

In the majority of the country having access to enough public land to hunt is out of the question.Large private landowners will not allow access to thier lands for any purpose unless it is leased for the specfic purpose of hunting,this is how they pay the taxes on the property.As for the ability to hit a deer on the move Thats a problem i have never had.If one over the number of decades learns the habits of deer he knows that a deer will not run flatout of rifle range.Being dependent on a dog to find wounded game shows a man that can train a dog.Even a heart shot deer can run beyond belief.Speaks nothing of skill.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Yeah, and who cares if those dogs get over on someone elses property and ruins their hunt? Usually a still hunter wont shoot a deer in front of a dog (ethics) But mostly the dogs loose the deer and run round and round someones greenfield just a bawling. The deer will not enter that field untill all the dog scent is gone. So--- its all right to step on our rights as long as your right is not interefered with, Right ? Maybe thats why the few states that still allow it have greatly restricted it and even baned it in certain parts of those states. In Florida, you better not let your deer dog trespass. In Missouri no deer dogs allowed but you cant even use a squirll dog during deer season. Enough people are getting fed up and deer dogging will soon become a thing of the past in those few states if the doggers dont start controlling their dogs.

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from WhitetailHunter706 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

i still hunt deer and am also a coon hunter, but i do not like deer hunting with dogs. If you dont have the skills to find where the deer are and where they are going you shouldnt hunt deer. If you cant find a deer that you hav shot without a dog then you shouldnt be hunting deer, if you cant shoot the deer and make a good clean shot(and i dont mean everytime, we are human we make mistakes and we occasionally miss or make bad shots on deer, but not on purpose.)then you shouldnt be deer hunting.
and this is especially directed to outdoorschic if you go deer hunting with dogs and it takes 44 people to go and run dogs and shoot deer and you consider these people your friends. But then you go still hunting and look you made a shot on a deer that wasnt run with a dog, even though you couldnt hit it cause it was standing still and had to hav your dog find it and then your "friends werent there to share the moment with you then man what friends. You ever heard of still or stand hunting with a buddy or a group of friends, you ever heard of calling some of your buddies to have them come help you drag it out ,after you hav foundit, and brag to them cause you got one before them, and then having a good time when you get back to the house and you and your buddies standing around your truck talkin bout hunting. Maybe they arent your friends at the club because all of you only care about one thing killing. all any of you are worried about is killing something and then showing it off to everyone wiping ther nose in it and then leaving till thenext time you all feel like killing again.
sorry i got off on sumthing that long but if you have to hunt deer with dogs maybe you should go to the target range, go to a buddies house and hav them show you how to track a deer that youve shot thats my oppinion but im sure ninety percent of hunters and i mean true hunters not what you consider "hunters" will agree with me.
and another thing all of you dog using deer hunters say well i had a bad experience the time i went still hunting, well maybe the same here when any of us tried using dogs, o wait we realized that using dogs wasnt rite.
And another thing most still hunters dont use baits, especially pilling corn up for the deer.
Hunt ethically and im from the north indiana to be exact we already realized that it was wrong and now its against the law.

to all you real hunters Good luck and good hunting

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

How long before the coon dog is banned because he can't read or the bird dog because the hunter should be a good enough hunter to know where the birds are.Deer dogs are a thing of the past now the rest of the dogs are in the same boat.It's an indivual right that has been taken away.Each group has their own points but all are vunerable to losing their right to hunt in the way they wish.In my opinion a green field is just as much baiting as a pile of corn.Both unnatural food added to bring in game.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

You know what tellin someone their tradition is wrong if they are doing it within the laws, and responsibly then you're no better than the anti's tellin us hunting and fishing is cruel and should be banned.

Alabamaoutlaw has some valid points. What if deer dogs are banned and then next waterfowl, rabbit,fox, turkey, squirrel, coon and bird dogs because once you open one can of worms next thing you know it's all comin undone.

We are losing public lands to hunts, access to public rivers to hunt and trap on, and we are losing farm land that we used to hunt on.
We are also losing the older and younger generations in our hunting heritage. Traditions are not being passed on.

Deer hunting with dogs has been around for generations not only in the US but Europe as well.
I personnaly do not deer hunt with dogs Though I have a Walker hound that's parents are deer dogs. She does / will be used to get on a trail but not run unless it's rabbit.

I've got kin that have hunted with dogs and I've grown up around it. Beagles runnin rabbit will spook deer just as bad as a Bluetick, Walker, Red Bone or other deer dog will.

To each their own as long as it is done within the limits of the law and responsibly.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I am like 86ram I don't dog hunt anymore, although i will have a blood dog till i pass.And the bow hunters and rifle hunters who have failed in their searches for wounded game have no problems asking for the help.And i have no problems helping them.What people are failing to see that they are empowering the anti's with every move to aide in the banning of deer hunting with hounds.Coon dogs running move deer,Out stomping around in the fields and hedgerows with bird dogs move deer.Anytime a person enters the deers core area this causes changes in their habits.As far as banter back and forth i'm done,But who's going to retrieve your ducks when they take your lab?

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The difference is that bird, rabbit, retrievers, and coon dogs stay close to the hunters that they are with and almost never get on someone elses property. We dont care how much you disturb the deer on your own land as long as you leave us alone. The coon dog that I had usually treed within a 1/4 mile of where he struck and I could call him back before he crossed the property line. I have never seen a deer dog that you could call back. The chief complaint we have is trespassing dogs and those hunters trespassing to catch dogs. The doggers talk about heritage, rights, and etc. but property rights are a tradition and heritage far and above dogging rights but the deer doggers seem to disreguard property rights. I have heard no complaints about any of the other sporting dogs.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

It depends on the dogs discipline and training. I have seen deer dogs end a chase by being called off a deer and the hunters were on the heels of the dogs or just in front of em in both situations.

I've seen rabbit dogs break trail and run deer and run em pretty far and not respond to any of the whistles or commands.

We can debate this all the way around. It depends greatly on the training, the owners and the dogs.

Blueticks are aggressive long legged deer dogs, lond nose beagles can be and in a pack they will run for as long as they have a hot trail.

Not all dogs stay close to their owner or heed commands. I've seen rabbit dogs, deer dogs and coon dogs with trackin collars cause they will be all over the place.

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from casster wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I grew up in Louisiana and hunting has always been in the family and still is. I love to hunt rabbit and squirrel with a dog, but when it comes to deer thats another story. My first experience as a boy was when a young doe staggered out into the road in front of Dads truck, he stopped, she was lathered and foaming at the mouth with the dogs behind her. She stumbled off into the woods to weary she could hardly walk past us standing within feet of her. Dad caught the dog and let her escape. He said it should be outlawed then, that was in the fifties and we didn't have many deer to begin with.
It was open range then now it is private or leased and people still hunt with dogs, turn them loose close to your property, run them out, shoot from trucks and roads. Argue over the meat, which would be second rate table fare to begin with. We raised cattle and we didn't run a beef yearling around in a pasture for a while before slaughtering it. Venison ran with dogs would be tougher and gamier from the chase, not to mention shot to hell and back. I love hunting and don't want it to go away but if hunters or their dogs are caught where they shouldn't be, I think the fine should be so high the game wardens, would be willing to take to the woods to catch them

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

A petition to ban BEAR and DEER hunting with dogs um.Did you do the research for this petition yourself? THE PEOPLE OF THIS FORUM SHOULD NOT BE LIED TO,YOU STATE IN THE LINK THAT DEER HUNTING WITH DOGS IS BANNED IN ALABAMA.YOU ARE A BALDFACED LIAR. gO TO THE PETA SITE THEY WILL WELCOME YOU.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

According to my research a little over half of Alabama is still open to dog hunting. Over the past several years deer dogging became illegal in several counties and portions of several counties. The DRNC put differing restrictions on most the other counties. All the areas that are open to dog huting are under the permit system. Clubs that have complaints will loose their permit. The DRNC is trying to get the doggers to clean up thier act before closing any more land to them. I suggest that we dont start calling names such as Alabama outlaw did. Thanks for the link to the petition

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The link to ban dog hunting that is referenced above states that "Loose dog bear hunting is illegal in" (goes on to name several states) This is absolutly correct. That particular Whereas does not reference deer dogs

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thanks for the link. I forwarded it to my daughter who attends a college in NC. She's pretty politically active so she might get something going on campus.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Be careful what you wish for and y'all are walkin a very fine line on tht one.

It is a heritage and DOGS and Hunting are a part of history and if you open the the door to one ban you open the flood gates for PETA, ALF, ELF, HSUS, ASPCA and give them ideas and firepower to shut down all Dog hunting and even our Stand Hunting.

I personnaly do NOT want to give them any info to further their cause.

BAN DOG HUNTING: That log in name and his/her comment is not specific to ban just deer dogs. Sounds like and smells like ANTI's to me.

They want infighting and they want to take away all of our rights and heritage: Fishing, Hunting, Owning Hunting dogs (any kind, College Mascots (live animals), Us eating meat and wearing furs, Natives hunting Seals, Whale things they've done for 100's of yrs.

Could you live with yourself if you caused your heritage your rights or any of the above to be taken away by aiding those bottom feeding oxygen theives.

If someone were to ban your rifle (BA, Semi Auto and Single shot or Shotgun same guidleines and Compund bows, Expanding/ Mechanical Broadheads,Buckshot, Slugs, Lead Field Shot, etc Scopes, Tree stands, Non Natural Ground blinds, Buck Hunting (because of their mortality rate), Use of ATV/UTV's due to environmental impact... What would happen to hunting? What would you do? How would it impact you? Because if we single out one we open the door to those possibilities

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Y'all think about that... think about how you'd feel, react to your heritage your rights being taken away from by antis, by other hunters, by city folk livin in the country that drive by us as we head into the woods and use terminology like fear, and uncomfortable to see us going to our stands as they drive to work. Or they are behind a truck with a deer in the back so they use trauma, disgusting, barbaric etc.
The next thing you know
You cannot travel with a deer in the back of your own POV without it being 100% covered.
You cannot expose it around children or yuppies at Game Check stations. Due to trauma of seeing bambi or tom turkey dead.

I don't deer hunt with dogs but I won't give ANTIS, Yuppies, City folk an INCH! When it comes to our heritage.
I've had people express their disgust or anti hunting views not only in my home state but other states I've been stationed in and been asked do you eat what you kill, do you only hunt for the horns (antlers as we know it), What do you do with it once you kill it? I don't want to see it if you pull into your own driveway, I don't want to see it get cut up (you guessed it the neighbors)

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I believe in Fair chase, Ethical Hunting, out Heritage, Our Rights, Respect, Responsibility, Tradition.

Honoring our Heritage, Fore Fathers, Rights and Traditions and Others.
I see points to all sides but I don't taking away a legal right of any responsible person.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Have my suspisions about him as stated above.I will not be part of infringing on the rights of North Carolina when they have do me no wrong.I Know that he has lied about Alabama,The reason for Alabama changing laws is because the state has bought this land and has put it into forever wild and State run hunting lands where you have to check in and draw a stand number aand be placed on a stand at 8:30 in the morning.Have no need for this type of hunt.But our game and fish commishioner will be gone with the govenor come election time.

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

There have been enough concerns raised here to suggest that the hound/deer hunting cultural tradition may need closer regulation. Perhaps forums like this may move participants to police themselves, set their own limits, and better define what is ethical in the arena of the sport. On the other hand, if the petition led to a healthy debate, perhaps a ballot issue on the matter in NC, then the debate would be taking place at the local level where it should be. Democracy at work.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

So y'all DON't believe in Fair chase, Ethical Hunting, our Heritage, Our Rights, Respect, Responsibility, Tradition.

Honoring our Heritage, Fore Fathers, Rights and Traditions and Others.
I see points to all sides but I don't taking away a legal right of any responsible person.

How can you call yourselve hunters if you don't honor it and Fair Chase
?
Minus me all you want on that. It says alot about you!

I don't believe we should ban legal forms of hunting of any type no more than banning legal forms of trapping animals even though unintended animals get snared or trapped too.

It's up to us as Hunters, Fisherman, and also the DGIF/DNR to make those decisions on how we Hunt legally. We should not leave it up to Antis and Non Hunters.
I don't dog hunt but I won't try to get it banned. I'd rather see stricter enforcement on the dog hunters and Roadside Hunting.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I'm with you 86RAM our politicans make the rules from the capitol.None are hunters and make the rules on where they get the money.Not from the ones that buy these license and are in thefield and really know what going on in the field.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

It's about Hunting as a whole once you introduce anyone lacking experience in Fishing or Hunting or anything, you take a big chance on what they vote for or against or react.
Though I don't deer hunt with dogs though I grew up around it and am not totally in agreement with it. I know alot of people who do hunt with them and around areas I hunt. They do it legally and responsibly. Not all of them do and those guys I would like to see not hunt with dogs.
I'm more concerned with opening the door to antis that may use tactics to close other forms of hunting by what they learn from getting one form banned.

It's like saying a small game hunter can't hunt small game during deer season because it's too close to a stand or the shooting is to close to a stand.
I've read on the answers and on another forum complaints about crow hunters shooting crows legally in the woods near a stand. This is just as petty.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I get frustrated when deer dogs out in front of my truck or are in the middle of the road or they run a deer out in the road.
I also get frustrated when other HUNTERS show total lack of respect and either drive into or walk into an area you're hunting.Therefore I choose to hunt PRIVATE PROPERTY even though it has even happened there and this year.
But they are hunting LEGALLY! in some cases..
I also don't agree with the dog hunters using excuses like dog retreivel to go on other peoples property without permission from the owner. To me that is trespassing.

I don't understand the willingness to blame the dogs. It's the owners responsibility. The dog is doin what it is trained to do.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I also get frustrated when other HUNTERS show total lack of respect and either drive into or walk into an area you're hunting.Therefore I choose to hunt PRIVATE PROPERTY even though it has even happened there and this year.

This was directed towards NON DOG Hunters and a few of them.
BTW that I've had the pleasure of being walked up on by and or driven through the area I was hunting

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

The people who move to the suburbs were they can get a dog .And the first thing that happens is a dog in heat and a mob forms running through the woods killing everything in site.Oh they are deer dogs they were running deer.The dogs are not to blame it's the owners of these animals.I live right on the edge of the swamp and see them coming out every day.Everything from german Shepards to pits and jack russells.The dog catcher weighs in at about 325 and couldn't catch a cold.All dogs in the woods are not deer dogs but they are killers by nature.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

alabamaoutlaw: preachin to the choir man. I don't know how many cases of domestic dogs and cats even killing chicken. Dogs killin other dogs, kids, adults, calves, cats, sheep and they weren't huntin dogs they were pits, rotts, labs, shephards.

But it's easy to blame the huntin dogs.
You put any dog in a pack setting and they are going to set up a peckin order and what the dominant dogs do the others do.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Amen 86 RAM I know back in the sixties these dogs would be DOA.Cattlemen used to buy our ammo to ride their property and eliminate these cow and calf killers.In my neighborhood these dogs belong to people who just don't care if they run loose. One of the things growled at my youngest daughter back a few months ago and i let it go because the dude lives next door.And he says he can't keep it up.Come warm weather he better have figured it out or a gator will get it.To all good hunting

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

If he can't keep the dog that's showing aggressive behavior up in the house, pen , kennel or on a runner than he shouldn't have the dog. Cause he's liable for the dogs actions.

Alabamaoutlaw good luck to you Sir. Take it easy...

Ditto :To All Good Huntin

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Why aint the deer doggers "liable for the dogs actions" ?

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

They are liable for damages/property destruction. They have to be reported in order to be held accountable.

I don't agree with a proposed law(not sure if it passed) that give dog hunters (All) to retrieve their dogs from other peoples property without asking for assistance and at the minimum permission from the land owner. To me that's common courtesy and the right thing to do. That will minimize the accusations, bad feelings and damage if any is caused by Hunting Dogs.

I'm held accountable as a pet owner to have my pets vaccinated, sheltered and and in a clean, safe and if outdoors contained area... leash, runner etc.

When I hunt my dog is on a lead and with me. She's a pup and still learning and to me that's the responsible thing to do.

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Here in WV dogs have never been allowed to chase deer. In fact in our hunting regulations and laws it gives the Conservation Officer the authority to kill the dogs if he cannot catch them. Different terrain requires different hunting methods. I have never hunted with dogs but before the race car driver Davey Allison got killed I used to go to Alabama to hunt with him. They used to hunt with dogs but almost everyone in Alabama have started still hunting. I can see that in the swamps of the southern states dogs may be a good tool to hunt with. Davey used to come to WV to hunt with me and he said he liked it here where dogs were not allowed. I hate to say but I have in my profession had to dispose of some dogs running deer. I have seen deer that have been caught by dogs and they are trying to crawl away with half of a ham eaten off. It is not a pretty sight. Here we do not have hunting dogs running deer but wild dogs people have turned out. I have even had these packs of dogs to try to attack me. I am a retired Conservation Officer and have seen a lot of different things and usually it is not the dogs fault but the unethical hunters. These days when hunting is under attack we as hunters have to stand together reguardless of our different hunting opinions. If we divide ourselves we will be easier to conquer. Thge anti-hunters rejoice when they see hunters fighting amoung themselves.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

The guys I know that deer hunt with dogs don't allow there dogs to ham a deer or maul it. They let em run it that's it. I'm sure if a dog showed the characterisitcs you described the dog(s) would be dispatched with a quickness.

Agreed the unethical hunters should be held accountable for their actions.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Not only dogs but coyotes these days.How can you ban them.Too many people just can't come together to solve these problems.Used to if a mans dog run a deer on you property and you shot it you got half the deer.But everybody hunted together.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

I get minused for saying unethical hunters should be held accountable?

For saying that actual deer dog hunters I know don't let theire dogs do that. That their dogs only run the deer?
WTF are you some kinda coward that you wont justify yourself?
I can let you meet some of these guys and they'll tell you the same thing. They'd get rid of a dog that showed those charactoristics
If you ain't wearin my shoes or know the guys I know than you don't know sh*t about their tradition or their handling and training/usage of their dogs. Their dogs cost em too much to risk injury of the dogs when they run deer.
Minus me all you want. but here's a parting shot GFYS you hypocrite. I don't see you jumpin on the band wagon against hog huntin,coon huntin, bear huntin or even cat huntin with dogs where the dogs are used to corner, run and fight or attack the game they are runnin. Hog dogs cornere and pin or hold the hogs. Great example. But I guess you don't hunt them so they don't matter you Hypocrite.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

LMAO... Can't refute it so minus it ... Can't stand behind your minus or justify it so stay hidden...

I don't see deer dogs wearin kevlar vests like Hog Huntin dogs do and some bear dogs.

Like I said the guys I know wouldn't risk their dogs to injuries or death by attackin a deer. a $300.00 dog not counting feed and vet visits ain't worth the loss of the dog to them.

Go back yto your corner and pout hypocrite

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Maybe you're an unethical hunter and you don't want to be held accountable for your actions... That's gotta be it cause you have the charactoristics ...

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Ijust read the story about OLD DRUM on the main page,you know i think he was a deer hound.
Alabamaoutlaw.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Alabamoutlaw I think you are right Sir. Great story too.

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from tbogg10 wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

well i am not against drives or running dogs, but i personally do not like either way, simply because i like the peace and quit of the woods and those ways take that away.

for your question i would assume the problem is with the people that let their dogs go and dont care were they run whether it be on private property or not, so thats the only reason i could see outlawing dogs.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

tbogg10, How would you feel if you did without many things and saved enough money to buy 120 ac. so you could hunt in peace and quite; And deer dogs ran all over your property almost every day? They would run arround my green fields "Bawling" and leaving dog scent making all my work for naught and infringing on my property rights. They feel that my rights are not near as important as their right to run dogs wherever there is woods.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Easy fix... It's called a livestock fence.... You can gfind them at any agricultural store or Lowes. If you don't know the dogs owners and you don't want them ruining your 120 acres of hunting ground. Deer can jump the fence 6 feet or even 4 feet.

If you find the owners i.e they're trailing the dogs than you get tags, names, lawyer and make them pay for you a fence.
I'm sure they'd rather settle with a fence and restitution to you than end up serving time for trespeassing if your land is marked iaw your states laws.

Sorry you have so much trouble with the dog hunters there but you have the right to your opinion and to protect your investment so do it. Put up a fence, trail cams and notify authorities, get tag numbers hold those irresponsible knuckleheads accountable.
That still does not give you the right to put down other hunters for their opinion on an obviously heated subject.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Someone can't handle the simple truth/ and a truthful solution or 10.

Identify (Owners,Dogs,Vehicles,Tags), Notify (Authorities, Owners, Lawyer), Post Land, Get Fence Protect Property and Investment while holding the negligent parties accountable.

HMMM Perfect sense when I'm siding with you/ giving a simple solution.

If you want to to minus me and or whine about it and disagree with a working solution than STFU and Drive on Instead of putting other people down for their views/opinions.

I just think you like to minus anyone that doesn't agree with you. LMAO

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

The hunting dog has been at the side of the hunter since the dawn of time and was one of the first domesticated animals.If not for the dog we might not be here today,lending his assistance
in procuring game to feed humans.If the bully gets your lunch money once he will feel entitled to it.Make them pay,no one wants to see someones rights violated.Make them pay for your trouble.But to ban all dog hunting because of some lawbreakers.Is a bit much.Invite a cop on opening day and simply solve the problem.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

I suggest; let the affected states (mine included) have a statewide vote. Let the people decide to vote it up or down. I have no doubt how the vote will turn out. Or at least let the Counties that are suffering the most have a voice and cast their vote. What do you think?

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

WHY NOT **** let the affected states(Mine included) have a statewide vote. Let the residents have a voice, they can vote it up or down. I have no doubt how the vote will turn out. Or at least let the residents of the counties that are suffering the most,have a county vote. Let the people decide yes or no.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

257ack...
I gave you a plausible solution and even agreed with you on some of the posts to include the last two with exception to the state wide vote that would include non hunters especially antis and city people that think going to a park is being out in the woods.

I think if it involves hunting it should be first polled throughout the outdoors community withing the STATE. Especially Hunters of that STATE that have invested as you said their time and money to enhance their hunting goals and stakes Because DOGS, LAND, LEASES, HUNT CLUBS, ARCHERY HUNTING, GUN HUNTING, SCOUTING, LAND MANAGEMENT costs alot of money on all sides. All sides should have equal say and could arrange a compromise and even stricter guidelines.

It is a heritage of many Hunters and they will fight it in their traditional states if you try to force it on them.

You don't hunt every species of game in your state do you?
You open up alot of opportunites for antis if you do not first start with the Hunting Community to resolve the issue.
I've been trying to get you to see that and to settle on a compromise rather than an all out ban. Because if you and others scream deer hunting with dogs is cruel alongside the antis they will in turn use that knowledge to ban coon hunts where dogs fight and kill coons, bear, hog and cat hunts where dogs track, run, corner and even fight with the game.

Read my posts again you'll see that' ive said I don't dog hunt or totally agree with it and I've had dogs running and non dog hunters walk up on and even drive thru an area i was hunting and it pissed me off on the lack of consideration. It's not only the dogs/dog hunters it also Stand hunters that do the same thing.
There are many post on here stating that as well.

"On public lands tree stand stolen, guy walks up and though he sees me sits down and hunts 45 yards away"

Not all Dog Hunters are bad peopl just like not all stand hunters are considerate and ethical hunters.

I just want you to realize that. You have very valid points and you could propse such a poll to occur thru the local game and fisheries or even with the support of a hunting club.

We as hunters are losing ground everyday and the less hunters the less legs and voices behind us. If they are doing it legally, not trespassing, not mauling, not trashing an area just hunting their lease then let them enjoy their tradition.
HOLD THE NEGLIGENT PARTIES ACCOUNTABLE!

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

To whoever is in the shadows minusing/ dissagreeing with me when obviously I'm making sense and I have not once NOT ONCE said that negligent parties should Not be held accountable for their actions... Why do you speak up and tell me what I've said that is so wrong about legal hunting, accountability, responsibility, the right to protect property, heritage and tradition, Ethically hunting as well as not involving or givin the antis an opportunity.

Grab a pair and tell me... because quite frankly you have an issue and you are in part responsible for the loss of hunting rights and probably fit the categories of either a non hunter or an unethical hunter or just an antagonist.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Why dont you speak up... not why do you...

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

YES INDEED!! I am for baning deer dog hunting completely. You may not realize it but there are many more horror stories out there. Most much worse than mine. The next best solution would be to follow the example of the state of Florida (only 9 states allow dogging). In Florida its as much against the law to let your dog trespass as it is for you. The "Hunter Responsibility Law" is well enforced and it is very rare to have a trespassing dog. I'm not sure how they keep them on their land (Which has to be registered along with the dog and the hunter) but Ive been told tracking collars and shock collars. Below is a link to the Proposal which became law the next season.
www.flhuntingdogs.org/FAQs.pdf
P.S. I am not voting anyone up or down

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Are you for banning the other types of dog hunting? Coon, Rabbit, Waterfowl, Bear, Lion, Hog, Squirrel, Turkey

I'm not for it. I think as you mentioned stricter laws and requirements. The hunter responsibility law if it works that well than by all means good to go. But it probably doesn't only encompass hunting dogs... All dogs/breeds trespass.
Rotts, Shephards, Chows, Pits, Labs, etc have been known to attack, maul and kill children, adults, livestock,wildlife and pets.

The gun dog hunters here that I know use tracking collars and try to keep the dogs close and in a contained area. And they are successful in doing so. They also tattoo, chip and in some cases UV dye the dogs.All of them have tags and a collar with the rivetted data plate with name,and owner info.

I can only speak on behalf of tthe guys I know and what I've seen. Up here it's the roadside guys that are the serious offenders and fuel for the antis fire.

I realize that where you are at and by your valid and well stated points that they are a problem there and they as mentioend previuosly the dogs owners

I do think that some laws may go too far and brand/ stereotype anyone who owns a hunting dog breed. Registering a dog is pure BS with the collar, chips, and the collars with names and addresses on them.
Whether in my yard or being walked or in the woods my dog my Companion is by myside and collared.

Do you own a dog? If someone made it impossible or unenjoyable to own one would you take it lying down?

I won't! I stand hunt and have had run ins with non hunters that would like to see hunting as a whole banned I won't take that lying down either.
Take it easy and I hope you can resolve your issues without entirely banning a tradition/heritage that many legal, responsible and ethical hunters have enjoyed for decades.

Not all dog hunters or stand hunters are law abiding, respectful, accountable. They are the ones to hold accountable.

BTW I wasn't directing the voting thing towards you. As stated you have stated your opinion with validity.
I'm directing it towards the one that is and will not speak up or expose themself with their true colors.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

United we stand has a ring to it.If you take the deer dog and alienate them,do you not think they will say well we can't have our dogs why should anybody have a dog in the field.Once the dye has been cast there is no taking it back.These antics are driving more people away from the outdoor sports every year.They banned hunting the mountain lion in California and don't know what to say when they find them un their porch eating their dog or cat and the amount of attacks on humans to boot Look before you leap.On the vote to ban dog hunting that would make a great peta point.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Texas was the last state to wholy ban deer dogs ( Arkansas baned them in about 1/2 the state) The die hard doggers used the same scare tactics IE. "all hunting will be done away with" and "all dogs will be baned" I'm happy to say that hunting is alive and well in Texas and so are sporting dogs except deer dogs

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

So you prefer trucks driving down the roads brimming with corn poured along bait siteS with stands overlooking them.And big high fences to keep the deer in .Well thats TEXAS

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Other States Including Fla, Alabama,Ms, and the Carolinas have high fences. IT HAS BECOME NECESSARY TO KEEP THE DEER DOGS OUT! There is one close to me. Wish that I could afford one. Its mostly the "Exotic" ranches in texas that have fences. There is pleanty of open and private land to hunt. I sometimes hunt with a friend there

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

I'm not a die hard dogger though. I'm looking at it from what I know.
BTW there has been a steady decline in HUNTERS/HUNTING. I know I've seen it. I've seen it due to loss of hunting areas, $$, Landowners not allowing hunting, loss of public hunting lands,
Irrepsonsible hunters, trespassers NOT ONLY DOG HUNTERS but HUNTERS just walking onto or driving (vehicle) or tryin to push deer onto their property. Harrassment from antis.
And Hunters stop hunting when they are not feeling they are supported whaen they are trying to do the right thing and everyone is against them even their own fellow hunters.

Texas Hunting: You mean the bait state: Store bought feeders, Home built feeders, and Hunting houses along a road ... park truck here step in sit down and watch feeder. That's NOT Hunting.
If they had to actually hunt do you think they would?

Ok once again What is your opinion on Coon, Bear, Hog and Lion hunting with dogs?

I didn't say it would destroy hunting and all dogs would be banned I said it would open the doors for antis to try to get it banned. It would give them ideas on how to actually succeed. We need to stand together.

You said you agreed with Floridas law and it works yet you still want Dog Hunting Banned entirely.. What's wrong with that statement?

If an existing hunting law is on the books and working yet still allows you to do what you enjoy.. Why say it still needs to be done away with entirely?

I agree with the concept of the law in Florida. I just know that dogs other than deer hunting dogs are just as guilty of doing the same if not worse.

You've got valid points but you're one sided on this subject. Ban Entirely... I say regulate itbetter and.... So lets agree to disagree and move on.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

If you read the link on Florida dogs you will see that it only includes deer dogs. Not coon rabbit squiril etc. If a dog is running a deer and its not on the registered land its considered a deer dog. There have been no arrest of any bodies bird, rabbit, squiril,etc.dog trespassing. They usually dont get that far from the owner and dont usually run deer. but if it did get on someones land and was not running a deer there is no infraction. Before things were stablized the land owners would either catch the trespassing dogs or set out live traps and then turn the dogs over to the warden. After the 3rd offence you lost your hunting license. Now things are settled down and its not often that a "DEER" dog trespasses. Guess what: the dogs have learned to read posted signs and locate property boundries. About twice a year the wardens themself catch a dog off registered land but its not the problem that it used to be. Yes!!!! I would settle for that law "If" it was WELL enforced and would even forgive one infraction a year. The reason I support a complete ban is there would be no doubt that I could hunt in peace and quite on my own land and because I'm not sure about the enforcement here.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Ok so why not push for a law that works like the florida law.Because it is apparently effective and it holds the owners accountable.

However all types of dogs trespass and do damage to property.
I don't think a single breed or type of hunting dog should be singled out.
However I will say that there should be a specific reference within the law to Hunting Dogs that run game and since the deer dogs in your area are a problem then the offenders should be held accountable.

I like to hunt in peace and quiet as well. I also like the sound of an occasional Beagle, Walker, etc on say a rabbit hunt or even during deer season off in the distance on their own propertynot interrupting my hunt.

It sounds like you have other issues than the dogs if you aren't sure about enforcement too.
Can I suggest one thing I hadn't mentioned but just thought about..Have you tried talking to your neighbors that allow hunts and see if they would put a clause in their lease contracts to help restrict movement of hunters/dogs.
I know and understand dogs can't read. I know they don't know boundary lines. But if it helps hold the dogs owners accountable. By maybe losing their privilages to hunt adjacent properties.

Good luck to you and I hope your future hunts are peaceful and rewarding and on your property.

There are ways to ensure it if you have the $$ and the laws don't change. Best of luck to you.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

You mentioned high fance... a 6 foot livestock fence works very well but like you said it takes money and time. They're readily available and cheaper than a high fence.

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from doghunter wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

257ack, when i said "a bucks never predictable" i meant theyre never predictable when dogs are running him. in the still hunting sense once you pattern bucks its pretty easy to predict what they will do. i am just simply saying i get way more enjoyment out of killing a deer dog hunting because in my opinion its just alot more exciting not being able to predict what he will do. when you dog hunt the dogs dont hardly ever run anything to you. half of dog hunting is trying to intercept the deer while its being ran unless your a free loader who are people that dont own dogs they just sit around and try to kill a deer in front of other peoples dogs.

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from doghunter wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

I would just like everyone to answer one thing for me. what is it that is so wrong about hunting deer with dogs?? i understand that sometimes they get in peoples way when theyre still hunting but if it bothers you like it bothers some of the people on this website why not hunt somewhere else. i just dont understand why you peopel act like this. honestly its just being downright mean to us dog hunters. you have already taken away enough of our tradition, cant you just let us enjoy what little bit we have left.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

doghunter as i've said before I have nothin against dog hunting of any type. I grew up in a state where deer hunting is allowed with dogs and with out.

I also do not like to see traditions as old as this country being stripped away. I know dog hunters and some of them are my kin.

I would like to see it more regulated where there are problems with the guys that run the dogs intentionally on other peoples property and run deer towards their area.

You've read my posts you know where I stand and what I know about the Hunters both dog and still in my State.

275ack has a valid point in that it's his property being trespassed on and he wants to hunt in peace and quiet.
I can't fault him for that because that is what all hunters/ fisherman want is a place to conduct business and enjoy themselves safely and without interruption.

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from doghunter wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

thanks for understanding and i agree some people need to change their ways about the way they hunt before they ruin it for the rest of us

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Could you enlighten me on this "all dogs damage property." thing?

The most damage my dogs could do would be pee on a tree.

Mind you, I still don't like deer dogs.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Meant all breeds of dogs have been known to damage property not just Deer Dogs..

For instance this morning on the radio news that a Police officer is recovering from a pit bull attack that happened while he was anwering a disturbance call.

My downstairs neighbors boxer tore out a storm door screen trying to get out and a window screen and blind

News reports on Dogs mauling and killing kids and adults.

Dogs digging holes under fences, Chewing on things, Chasing livestock.

My dog digs holes every now and then.

So therefore all breeds of dogs are capable of damaging property

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

To all those who have never deer hunted with dogs,many not all sound like your from PETA.You say you never take a shot unless you can make a ethical shot, I guess you don't do any bird hunting than!If you hunt and live up north it's hard to get a feel for the thickness of the woods down south.The dogs never see the deer so they don't run by sight,so the deer are able to stay ahead of the deer.I known many dog men that loved working with their dogs and hearing them run more then ever killing a deer.I own 85acres that I bought just for still hunting and lease another with friends for still hunting as well.But I grew up hunting with dogs so I see both sides.What's wrong with setting on a bucket or a dog box?Hunters set in fields to shoot dove,ducks rabbits,ect.I admire those that live up North and can walk for miles in woods without many roads or hunting clubs,I wish you well,but you see too many of you have moved South and now we have lost much of the land that we use to hunt.I always said I hope things would get better up North so more of you would stay there.It's sad but true there are a few bad hunters in any type of hunting, let us work on outlawing those few not each other.Wish I could still leave my house and hunt as I did as a child,no clubs,no posted signs but I still choose to hunt as I can tell I'm no longer able or allowed.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Friends, I suggest you read "Those Were the Days" by Archibald Rutledge, and you will gain a better understanding of the tradition and romance surrounding hunting deer with hounds. It's a very good read for these snowy days. It's snowing again, and again, and again................

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from 007 wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Follow-up, does anybody really want those who live in the citys of our various states and have NO understanding of the outdoors voting on hunting issues? Look how well this has worked on 2nd amendment issues. Better to keep that genie in the bottle.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Reply to 007 **** Then make it a law that they cant allow their dogs off their land AND ENFORCE IT WELL. Us landowners have rights to0. It completely ruins our hunting. The dogs also runs our livestock and kills our chickens. Often those hunters trespass to retieve their dogs. What about PROPERTY RIGHTS ? Fla. has a system where the dogs, the dog hunters, and the land that they are allowed to hunt are registered. If the dog gets off the land its trespassing, Stiff fine. 3 rd time suspended license. Not as good as a complete ban but it makes the doggers behave and lets them keep their sport. Guess what? Those dogs have learned to read posted signs and have learned the property boundries. The situation is critical and something must be done.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

And then what's next, restricting house cats to their own front yard? I totally agree and understand about the rights of others, trespassing, etc, and have no dispute with your thoughts there, but I have yet to see a dog that recognizes or understands boundaries or posted signs. Today the hunting community is willing to throw the hound people under the bus. Tomorrow may well be the bird dogs, after that the bowhunters. Who's going to speak up for you after the rest of us are gone? Better to stick together than to hang seperately.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

How do the deer dogs in Fla. recognize boundries? My contact in Fla tells me that the doggers use gps tracking collars and shock collars. Yes, this is a inconvience but not near as inconvient as it was for the land owners before the law. This law pertains only deer dogs. No other sporting dog is included or even complained about. Yes it is well enforced in Fla. No, I'm not knocking our wardens but it seems as some of their hearts is not into enforcing the doggers. Deer dogs have been baned in other states and large portions of some states and all other types of hunting with sporting dogs is flourshing so I dont think that you should worry about that problem. At one time after suffering so much abuse threats and intimadation I almost did not care about that anyway but the truth is that I do care and since it has not happened in Texas, Arkansas and many other areas, I dont think it will happen here. I really appreciate your post, You seem concerned about the rights of others. Myself and many, many others have tried to rason with the Doggers but they wont even consider the rights of others. Their attitude is " if there is woods there its my God given right to run my dogs there". I came upon one turning out close to my property line and he said "I cant help which way my dogs go". Isnt property rights worth something? It was a long haul for a poor man like me to finally own some.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

I truely understand a landowners rights to protect his property and his ability to restrict intrusion on to said property.
I have hunted all kinds of dogs and have had coon hounds hit a hot track and be gone sometime out of earshot.I have also had beagles jump a swamp rabbit and run him just like a deer.They may have short legs but they can move.I have also fox hunted they called it but it was when coyotes were first invading Arkansas and they would have thirty dogs mostly walkers chase a coyote down and eliminate it.There was no catching them until the task was done.Why do deer dogs get the bad rap.Deer that have been run by dogs get wise and play games with the dogs by running circles,jumping to the side of the trail,hitting the water.they are not helpless little creatures,the coyotes run them year round.They are the ones that are eating up the fawn crops and the weak.

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

I just don't get it,I got my first 2 hounds for my 12 birthday and had deer hounds up till 2years ago. I'm in my 50s and the worst day I could have all season would be for land owner or the law to stop and even worn me about my dogs.I've rode the property lines and called I would wait at their gates trying to get my dogs back.The day is lost if my dogs got any where I couldn't go.It just got where I couldn't afford keeping dogs and paying the lease.Friends your problem is with the ones up holding the law not all dog hunters, there are some FOOLS that will always trespass be it on foot or with dogs grow a backbone.If someone comes on my place no body is going to be happy.I will always give someone a warnning but after that I call the Law and I keep calling till something is done.Go to the station, go to the court house.I've even gone to their house,the cops house.One man that came on my place,I went to his house as well and just talked to him.He wasn't happy to see me but he listened,I told him I wanted to get along but I waited all my life to have a place that was mine.That I would never give in to him trespassing and was willing to do what ever it took to see to that.I also told him I would help him in any way and would try to be a friend but on this matter I would not give as long as I had air in me.Guys I love hunting but I have no other word but hate for those that chose to take something from me.Dogs hunting belongs to these men just as your land belongs to you,bust those that abuse either.God Bless

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Just like you there are many of us who have nothing but hate for for those who are taking something away from us. OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS!!! We do not have the use of our property when deer dogs are trespassing. We are being robbed! We have tried the law that you speak of it tells us there is no law against trespassing dogs even if its seven days a week. There is no law against doggers turning out a few feet from your property line. The law don't care if it negates the use of your property. There are hoever civil remedies. There are many of us who would like (if it dont get better) to see hunting banned altogether if something is not soon done because then your hunting would be ruined as ours is.I dont share that same feeling (yet) I really hope that it doesn't come to that but the doggers will not control their dogs and something has to be done. I would prefer a law that makes the hunter responsible for his trespassing dogs and maybe we could both be in peace. Yes, I fixed my problem by suing the timber co but I am still spokesman for the group and they should have a right to keep deer dogs off their land

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Just like you there are many of us who have nothing but hate for for those who are taking something away from us. OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS!!! We do not have the use of our property when deer dogs are trespassing. We are being robbed! We have tried the law that you speak of it tells us there is no law against trespassing dogs even if its seven days a week. There is no law against doggers turning out a few feet from your property line. The law don't care if it negates the use of your property. There are hoever civil remedies. There are many of us who would like (if it dont get better) to see hunting banned altogether if something is not soon done because then your hunting would be ruined as ours is.I dont share that same feeling (yet) I really hope that it doesn't come to that but the doggers will not control their dogs and something has to be done. I would prefer a law that makes the hunter responsible for his trespassing dogs and maybe we could both be in peace. Yes, I fixed my problem by suing the timber co but I am still spokesman for the group and they should have a right to keep deer dogs off their land

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

257ack,you just stated the same thing I said earlyer,the law needs to be better or law enforcement.I own the land I spoke about it's only 85ac,I only still hunt now.It's still not right for all dog hunters to lose their sport because you live or hunt around a bunch of trash.That's what they are TRASH it happens, if they were on foot would you want all hunting outlawed because you couldn't keep people off you land.When the dogs come on your place,catch them and put them in a pen.CALL the owners about dark and have them pick their dogs up.I've hunted around still hunt clubs that would bring our dogs to their gate after dark.They were going to catch them so dogs wouldn't be running around or running deer,but they were not calling tell dark.If these guys care about the dogs,they will not want to be without them all day and not knowing for sure till dark if you have them or their just lost on your place.Tell them this rule and always make sure the dogs are safe.Most clubs build pens just for this.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Another thought comes to me on this, 257ack. From the way you describe the people giving you trouble, if you really stir things up with them, they might be the kind of folks who would cheerfully cut fences, shoot livestock, seed your driveway with roofing nails, etc. Better think ahead a bit, is it worth it? I ran a pair of morons off my land a couple of years ago who swore that it was theirs and not mine (I'd only lived there 40+ years) and warned them in writing that the next time I'd be calling the law. After that I had dead groundhogs piled in my driveway, my "private drive" sign shot to pieces, and huge donuts spun in my hayfields, yet local law enforcement can't do anything about all of that. Have you tried to get along with these folks and reason with them? A soft answer turneth away wrath.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

007 Yes, I experienced all that and worse and so have others. Yes, I tried my best to reason with them and even offered to work with them on an ocassional infraction. This time a soft answere did not turn away wrath. And its not just the paticular group that hunted arround me. Many others had similar experiences with other groups. I reall wanted it to work because I did not have money to hire a Lawyer but had to borrow the money. The timber co.that I sued reimbursed me for attorney fees but I did not know that at the time. I was able to have one of them arrested for harassment and a neighbor got one for trespassing (he gave him 2 warnings) Things now seem better but I'm sure they would still like to do me harm. I'm not saying all deerdoggers are like that but I have never met any that wer'nt and from the several reports there are not many that are not. By the way ** NO ONE HAS TROUBLE WITH ANY OTHER SPORTING DOG** I see from your experience that those who tried to bully you are not deerdoggers so Im not saying that all bullies are deer doggers and all deerdoggers are bullies nor am I saying that all dont respect property rights but I never met one. I do wish there was a way to resolve this without a complete ban but with their mindset that would be impossible. I feel that property rights will win out

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

257 ack you have beat this dog to death.If you have not found your answer yet i don't know if it is out there.I truely hope you can find peace within.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Agreed, We have beat this subject to death from every possible angle.
We're reinventing the wheel and just spinning tires.

Let's move on

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from Danny Buck wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

It seems that there is alot of up-roar on this subject. I am 30 yrs old and was brought up hunting and fishing not only for a sport but for food. I still hunt and hunt with dogs, it seems to me the biggest problem is greed. I remember as a kid hearing the old men in my community talking about thier child hood. They hunted coon and fox with dogs riding mules as a sport, because there were no such thing as a deer just hear say. Later years deer tracks started showing up in parts of the county but they were rarely seen. Men in the county went from fox hunting to try deer hunting. They would get together on Saturdays and ride the dirt roads hoping to find a deer track for the hounds to trail up. It was no such thing of a posted sign. All the men had cb radios to talk to each other in order to keep up with the hounds. They only killed 5 to 10 deer a year and got together as often as they could to cook and fellowship. But the population of deer stared to grow out of control like it is now. It seems to me back in the day all the men in the county hunted together until the population spread over the whole county. Thats when more people got interested in deer hunting and started forming clubs. Deer were being seen alot more often so some hunters started still hunting. Thats when grunt calls, scents, camo, food plots, tv shows showing big rack deer being killed and anything else that could be sold to increase the chance to kill a deer. Greed came along with all that then posted signs. Deer hunting has become a sport of money and greed. Just look at the tv shows they are all trying to sell something to kill a big rack deer. I have always said if every deer was made equal you would be able to hunt everywhere. So my conclusion is you greedy and out of town still hunters, think about my heritage when you come into dog running country and rent a piece of land to hunt.
Yours truly, Wetbuck

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from 007 wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Very well put, Wetbuck! 257ack, I have one more item then I too am going to quit picking at this sore spot in hopes that it can heal. I have seen the bear gang that I run with cut fire wood for a shut-in who allows us to trespass and hunt, pass the hat to pay for road repairs for a landowner, and pass the hat again to provide radios to a landowner who lets us hunt, and I understand we're going to do so for another one again this year so they can listen to us or otherwise participate in the goings on. These landowners know us and know that we not only take good care of their property, but we can also be their eyes and ears in their absence. I asked to borrow a gate key and for permission to take my ailing uncle for a ride behind a locked gate owned by one of these landowners mentioned. He cheerfully gave me a key and said to hang onto it, it might come in handy later, and gave me permission this year to take my wife on a tour of another piece of his place come spring. I will qualify tho, by saying that we are all neighbors and good friends who look out for each other. Not all dog owners are total villians. I wish you well.

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from meangene1984 wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

deer hunting with dogs is a way of life here in va. and i love it and think most would that try it and if its not there cup of tea then leave it to the ones who like it and dont try to stop it i have been to some of these states that allow baiting and you pay for a trophy and ypu get on a truck they park you in a cut over and turn on a food spreader and the deer come to it and you shoot one not my cup of tea but dont bash it and wont go back and try it again i did not even shoot a deer on that trip and would not but love to dog hunt and still hunt both

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

The season seems to be over for 'Deer Hunting With Dogs'. Let this sleeping dog lie. Your complaint seems to be about the propriety and ethics of baiting. There is a Topic/thread titled 'Baitng' under the Campfire message board. I don't think anything has been posted for a couple weeks on that so you may have to dig for it. Seems to me there is a thread somewhere on hunting ethics.

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from meangene1984 wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

hunting deer with dogs is not for all but i hunt with a club that kills over 150 deer a year and most dogs will bay a hurt deer and we kill about 10 to 20 deer each year that have arrow stuck in them or have been shot with black powder and i do both so not putting them down just saying you have guys that take bad shots as well as kill little bucks so to each there own but if we all dont respect each others method of hunting and stick together in will be outlawed for all

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

meangene1984 Wrote "If we dont respect each others method of hunting and stick together it will be outlawed for all" **** That works two ways, The deerdoggers need to respect property rights and not let their dogs trespass. Deer hunting is already "outlawed" for those property owners who have deer dogs running all over their land. Most wont shoot a deer in front of a dog and the dogs run round and round our greenfields "bawling" The hunting is ruined for us so why should we be concerned if its outlawed for you as it is for us? We will respect your way of hunting "IF" you control you dogs and keep them on your own lease. Yes!! I will keep voicing my opinion (not only here but to the politicians)until the deer doggers keep thier dogs from trespassing (not likely) or their is a complete ban on deer dogs. We have no complaints about other sporting dogs and now is the time for forming organizations that gather evidence and complaints to present to the politicians. This is the time to do it not when season starts

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from meangene1984 wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

257ack it is easy to control dogs just have do say on where the deer run and not sure what state you hunt in but here in va 95% of the land is controlled by dog hunting clubs and as a land owner and farmer i will tell you this using dogs in these thick pines is the only way to control the deer problem i dont want to go back to getting damage stamps and shooting 150 deer a year in the fields so i will have a crop and if you want to be like this then fence your land in and the dogs cant run on it im not feeding deer in my fields and losing money for anyone its very clear that your set in your ways and have no respect for others just because your having a problem does not mean we all act like that we have still hunters that tresspass does that mean you and all other still hunters do it and as far as saying you would not shoot a deer in front of dogs ok but if a 200B&C class deer ran up to you while dogs were running in you know you would shoot till you were out of shells so keep on pushing this issue and when P.E.T.A comes after hunting the millions of dog hunters and the big companies that sell us all the things we use to have our dogs wont be there to help fight them

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

Maybe that statement to the politicians needs to be presented by the dog hunters.You refuse to let this alone.If you take the deer dogs away you have an enemy that will set their sites on other dog sports.If i can't have mine you can't have yours.You can't tell me that all other dogs read your no trespass signs and don't get on your property.I hope P.E.T.A doesn't see you wringing those roosters neck next year.You saved all your life to buy property and to move into a known dog hunting area without regard to anyone and want the world to change just for you.Let sleeping dogs lie

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

meangene, alabamaoutlaw, Danny Buck,007 We've gone round and round on this subject with these guys and it's goin nowhere.
We've said what we felt needs sayin that's all you can do.

BTW
Dog Hunting in VA isn't goin anywhere or even close to being threatened yet. The tradition is strong and thriving. You're right the thickets down south are a whole other ball game.

The roadside guys are the biggest issue I have.

Happy hunting to all.

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from virge wrote 4 years 7 weeks ago

NEITHER SIDE IS LISTENING !!
I have been reading this post with a good bit of intrest and neither side is listening. Those who support hunting with dogs say that the other group should support each others rights but it seems that they only want the other side to support their rights and they wont do anything to control their dogs (they could do much more). In all the post there has not been a remark like we will try to keep our dogs on our place if you try to work with us if we slip.
The other side of the fence doesn't respect tradition and only their right to use their property. I have not seen a post by the other side that addresses tradition or says that we will work with you if you make a honest attempt to keep your dogs off me.
If the status quo is to continue then there is going to have to be some give and take on both sides. Those running dogs *must* do better at controling the dogs ; And those who dont want dogs on their property *must* forgive an occasional incident if the hunters are making a good effort to keep their dogs on their hunting land.
Some states (GA, Al,& Ark) have closed dog hunting in areas where no *compromise could be reached BUT! left it open where the hunters did a good job of controling their dogs and the landowners accepted an infringement or two if they knew that the hunters were trying to controll their dogs.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 7 weeks ago

Obviously Virge you've overlooked some of the posts saying "landowners have rights, The non productive members of society that are trespassing, breaking laws etc on both sides should be held accountable for their actions. Both parties have valid points but not enough to ban one or anothers hunting rights!

Obviously you have not read every post or you would've seen that.
Also I've personally stated that landowners have rights and that All Hunters should be held accountable for trespassing to include running their dogs on adjacent properties.

So really... the Dog guys only want their wishes respected... why don't you re read the posts before making such bold accusations:
The deer dog guys have been saying hold all parties accountable it's not only dog hunters that trespass but still hunters do too.

I've had walkers conduct deer drives on public land I was hunting and the completely ignored signs that another hunter was there to include a big a$$ truck, blaze orange markings etc.

We're listening and I don't even dog hunt deer but when someone hollers ban it where it should be regulate it more and hold misfits accountable then there is somethin wrong with that.

The anti deer doggers /dog hunting are hollerin ban it What's your take on that? Do you live in a state where dog hunting isn't allowed? Have you ever been around it?

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from Reddragonccc15 wrote 4 years 6 weeks ago

Hunting deer with dogs should be allowed but only if the dogs can be contained to the specified area that is to be hunted...Most dog hunting clubs have/lease a vast area of several hundred acres or more for their members to hunt on so they are not the problem....and many states that allow deer hunting with dogs on public lands have a set season for it to allow both still hunters and dog hunters a chance to enjoy their sport......But time and time again these dog hunters allow their animals to cross private property and run deer from those properties,this is what causes the main problem..I have 130 acres of private land in MS which backs up to the Homochitto National Forest which allows hunting with dogs,I spend a fair amount of money and time to put in food plots,deer feeders,salt licks,and sow a few acres full of rye grass and clover,I put in a 1 acre pound not only for stock fishing but as a water source for the deer,also I have planted some pine thickets to allow deer suitable cover.Basically my property is set up not only to hunt deer but to keep deer staying year round...The property is posted every 20 feet with clear readable signs and in some areas with a 3 wire fence...but these dog hunters do not seem to care and they let their dogs run right through my property while they walk along the property line,they have an entire forrest to hunt in yet they want to run deer off of private property so they can shoot them on public property...now of course no one owns the deer nor can anyone lay claim to them but I believe allowing dogs to enter someone elses property is the same as tresspassing...and this happened very often in this area for years and years,,,so much so that a few years back they made it legal for a property owner to shoot and kill on sight any hunting dog that was activiely seeking deer on their property.This of course did reduce the number of hunters who allowed their dogs to cross private property but it does still happen every year...I have hunted with a few people a few times with dogs but I found it to be not much of a sport since the dogs ran the deer down until the deer was so tired it couldnt run anymore and they just had a clean shot at a completely exhausted animal that couldnt hardly move anymore if its life depended on it...like shooting fish in a barrel no sport at all..the dogs did the real hunting and they just did the killing.
I say Hunt with dogs all you want if thats what you like but keep them off my property and stop interfering with my sport and wasting my time and money I put in to my property so I can enjoy my sport on my own land...

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 6 weeks ago

RED, Your problem is so much like what we have here. As you said, the doggers allow their dogs to invade private property. My experience is that those doggers actually encourage the dogs to trespass. After running their property to death, they try to run the deer back. They dont care how much you spent or how hard you worked to have a place to hunt as you wish. The doggers do not respect your rights but they want you to honor their "tradition". The behavior of the doggers at your place is typical of doggers everywhere, Yet they say that there are only a few bad apples. I am convinced that the only way that they will contain their dogs is to enact a good law such as Fla has and enforce it "well", as they do down there. If a deer dog trespasses then there is a stiff fine for the owner and after the 3rd time he looses his license. The problem here would be to get good enforcement and probally where your at also. The real solution is a complete ban on deer dog hunting. Not other sporting dogs, just deer dogs. Not many states allow deer dogging and in some states you are allowed to shoot a dog running a deer but that wont happen here. I wish you the best

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 6 weeks ago

It appears to me that what I talked about is happening on this question. One hunter shouldn't badmouth another just because he dosen't hunt that way. The anti-hunters smile when they see hunters badmouth each other over the ways we hunt. Let us all stick together so that hunting will be there for my grandsons and great grandson. If we fight enough amoung ourselves we will lose. I'm not saying we can't disagree we just need to know the civil way to go about it.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

We are not bad mouthing another hunter because of the way he hunts! Most of us dont care how he hunts unless it ruins our hunting. We are saying that we spent lots of money and worked hard to have a place to hunt as we like. We are complaining because they allow their dogs to invade our private property and ruin our hunting. If the doggers were invaded by the anti's going thru the woods whooping and running the deer off then they would have a right to complain about them Just as we do for those who are ruining our hunting. If they didnt ruin our hunting then we would not say anything about them running dogs. The reason we support a total ban on deer dogs is because they refuse to control their dogs and that is the only way that it is going to stop. The doggers saw this coming a long time ago but they thought that their "tradition" trumped property rights. They should have started controling their dogs and kept them on their own lease.

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I really enjoyed the phone call this evening 007. The items we were discussing this evening about all the hunters getting along must have made someone mad because they gave me a -1 on the last post I did on this site. I remember when I went to work here in Grant county you could get permission from over 95 % of the landowners to hunt and now 40 years later I would say it wouldn't be 5 %. As I told you one of these days it will be decided at the ballot box if we hunt or if we don't. I hate that because I have 2 sons, 2 grandsons, and 1 great-grandson and I would hate to think that they won't be able to enoy the sport of hunting like I have and continue to do.. I will be waiting to find out how the new gun shoots. Should be a great piece. You didn't tell me what action you were making it on. I guess you and your boy will be like me and tear up the deer too bad when we shoot them after you get that gun built. Looking forward to a visit some day this spring when you decide to fish the North Fork. Good Luck

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

007,
You will notice the user name has changed, thought it might be a good idea.

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from Deerslayer76 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Hunting with dogs is fine,,,If you can keep the dogs on the designated hunting area,,,which usually isnt a problem with hunting clubs because they have/lease large tracts of land,,and in many states they have a designated season for hunting deer with dogs on public land,and hunters are still allowed to Still/Tree hunt during that time if they want to,but they know the dogs are out,,so there is no suprise there.......
But there are always problems every year between a few unattentive dog hunters and property owners,such as reports of property damage because the dogs run through a pasture spooking cattle or horses causing them to run into fences,,the occassional off track and poorly trained dogs that have been found running goats instead of deer....reports of police being called to settle an ownership dispute in public hunting areas because a Still/Tree hunter shot and killed a deer that another hunters dogs were chasing...just to name a few....Hunting deer with dogs is legal in my state but its not very well regulated...
My county has a huge deer population and a large majority of hunters who hunt their own land,lease farm property ect..and as long as I can remember there were on going problems with dog hunters who dont pay attention...it all ended in 1996 when the county passed an ordinance that put restrictions on hunting deer with dogs,now to hunt with dogs you have to purchase a $75 permit...all dogs must be licensed,tagged and have their shots up to date..numbers are limited to the use of only 4 dogs per permit...hunting with dogs on rented/leased/owned property is limited to tracts of no less than 250 acre's...If the dogs are found tresspassing on private land and captured by the poperty owner the hunter could be fined upto $250 per dog.....
The ordinance restrictions didnt apply to those hunting in the state park or on state owned public lands...except the part about being fined for dogs on private property......after a while with the large increase in the numbers of dog hunters using the state park and the few public areas they reduced the season down to only 2 weeks instead of 4....it solved alot of problems since the state is relatively poor and can not monitor and regulate hunting with dogs as much as it should....

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from 007 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Sarge, just saw your post, hadn't been to this one for a bit. I too enjoyed our visit and look forward to a good cup of coffee, either on your side of the hump or mine. I'll keep you posted on the new toy, being built on a Ruger 77 MK II, the gunsmith assures me it will happen this year. Regards........

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Deerslayer, that was a good comment. You nailed the problem. "TRESPASSING DOGS" Most deer doggers wont or cant control their dogs and that is why it is being outlawed/restricted in more and more areas. The areas where the doggers have respect for property rights are still holding on to their sport. Those who dont respect someone else rights and just care about their fun are loosing ground and are ruining it for those who try to keep their dogs under control. Its all about property rights and we dont want deer dogs running across our land that we worked so hard for.

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from MPN wrote 4 years 5 days ago

Well here is my thought. Hunt the way you want to hunt. We can pick each other apart and then the anti's work is all done and they didn't even have to get their hands dirty. Just get out there and enjoy the great sport of hunting. Instead of worry about how we do it let's just get out there and do it!

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 5 days ago

MPN Hunting the way that they want is to let their dogs run on everyone else land. I cant hunt that way and I cant hunt the way I want when they do that.I Cant enjoy hunting when there are dogs running on my property. "Cant just do it" as you say,I have standards. Etiics keeps me from shooting a deer in front of a dog. I Cant expect to see deer when dogs are running round and round my green field just a bawling, trying to pick up the scent they lost. Deer wont come back into that field for several days. It completely ruins hunting for me. Do I not have a right to own and use property? I cant use it when someone else is running dogs on my land. I worked hard for it, sweated blood and tears and you tell me the doggers have a right to hunt it by using dogs. Are you trying to tell me I should hunt like that bunch of outlaws and start shooting deer in front of dogs and let dogs run all over someone else land? Aint no way. If they ruin it for me, should I not ruin it for them? Do you expect for people to just give up the use of their land so that the doggers can hunt it all they want?

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from MPN wrote 4 years 5 days ago

257ack,
Thanks for the -1. I can understand your view but don't you dare tell me my ethics are wrong because I don't care how others hunt! Respect my opinion and I'll respect yours but if you attack my ethics well let's just say your gonna start a fight. Oh and I never said I personally would hunt with dogs.

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from virge wrote 4 years 5 days ago

Personaly, I dont care how you hunt. If its with dogs,where it is legal,thats your business; But ,if you let your dogs trespass on my land then it becomes my business and in some states you can shoot a dog that running a deer. Where I am it is legal to trap on your own land. The main problem is that most deer doggers dont respect private owned property and that is why it is becoming illegal in more and more areas. States such as Ark.,Al.' and Ga. that used to be wide open have closed about 1/2 of the counties and highly regulated the other 1/2. Those who still think "I cant help where my dogs run,my dogs cant read, its my God given right" etc will soon ensure that deer dogs are outlawed everewhere. Even NC. and SC. are closing some areas. As someone said, property rights will prevail.

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from ten-o-see wrote 4 years 5 days ago

Nothing ruins my hunting like a deer dog comong through my area. Nothing brings more misery to a farmer or landowner than a bunch of renagades running dogs across his land. In order to make a living, I moved from a civilized state that outlawed that uncivilized sport years ago. Now I dont even bother to try to hunt here anymore.

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from Pronger wrote 4 years 4 days ago

Yeah dogs suck but I'm not gonna complain about how others wanna hunt.

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from Short Tract hunter wrote 4 years 4 days ago

Pronger,
I agree.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 51 weeks ago

"Let me tell you somethin There’s people out there that wanna stop you caus they don’t care bout the way you do things in the south ain’t nothing wrong bein raised this way and I don’t give a d#mn what they say drop that tailgate and let em run"

"Rich man came from outta state buyin up property and puttin up gates and sayin you I don’t want you and your dogs on my land…I’ve never been for runnin dogs and it ought to be against the law cause all you need is a big pile of corn and stand"

Truisms in these words ... Tradition shouldn't be pushed aside for baiting or expensive food plots and because some rich guy from up north where they don't dog hunt who decides to move south and buy land tries to impose his will...

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 51 weeks ago

To each their own: You don't like it don't do it... But don't try tpo impose your will on or put down those who do!

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from _tuff wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

Living in the mountains of PA we are not aloud to use dog hunting and i am greatful i don't have to worry about it. Call me and my family old fashioned or claim its cruelity to animals but around here a dog who runs deer is shot.It amazes me that its a sport. I mean hey, what ever floats your boat i suppose.But when you get down to it, its just people who have more money than passion to pour into dogs to run down the game instead of enjoying being out and getting the full hunting experience. As a teenager when i take to the woods its just me, my hot seat, 270 on my back shells and knife in my pocket along with the drag rope. The idea of dogs running deer in my eyes is not along the lines in fair chase and its a good thing to me that we don't have that situation around here. But then again, i've never done it, and in some areas maybe its the best way to hunt. But of my knowledge now, and the way i was raised i don't agree with it.

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from _tuff wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

Living in the mountains of PA we are not aloud to use dog hunting and i am greatful i don't have to worry about it. Call me and my family old fashioned or claim its cruelity to animals but around here a dog who runs deer is shot.It amazes me that its a sport. I mean hey, what ever floats your boat i suppose.But when you get down to it, its just people who have more money than passion to pour into dogs to run down the game instead of enjoying being out and getting the full hunting experience. As a teenager when i take to the woods its just me, my hot seat, 270 on my back shells and knife in my pocket along with the drag rope. The idea of dogs running deer in my eyes is not along the lines in fair chase and its a good thing to me that we don't have that situation around here. But then again, i've never done it, and in some areas maybe its the best way to hunt. But of my knowledge now, and the way i was raised i don't agree with it.

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from virge wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

I was born and raised in the south too. But unlike another poster, I was raised to respect another mans property and his rights. Some of us are not rich yankee's. Some did without many things to own a few acres. Some of us dont feel that it right to deer hunt with dogs but will leave you alone if you leave us alone. When you "just drop the tailgate and let them run" then your running all over the land we worked so hard for. It ruins our hunting because as someone else said we dont think its right to shoot a deer in front of a dog. After the dogs run on our land we dont see another deer during the daylight for several days. You completely ruin our hunting. In effect you are hunting the land that we paid for!

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

If you'd paid attention I have alot of respect for other peoples property. I just don't respect you or your views on how others hunt or chose to hunt as long as it is legal and shows "respect towards the land owner and adjacent land owners"

I was stating that the song in a sense made sense.
The drop the tailgate and let em run part of the song was meant to state the lack of respect stand hunters show towards dog hunters whether or not it's on the dog Hunters land or their leased land and that the dog hunters should be allowed to hunt as per their traditions.

It's all about how you percieve what you read I guess.
I have no problems with the dog hunters if they are doing it legally with respect.

What do you think about the stand hunters that treaspass on other peoples property or drive their trucks thru other peopls farm fields? I guess you ain't got a problem with them because they don't have a dog box in the back or a dog or dogs.

Once again it's not only SOME dog hunters that are bad apples but Some Stand Hunters too.

Why don't you want to acknowledge that fact? Not every dog hunter is runnin dogs on or across property that isn't leased or owned by them and quite a few of them are actually responsible with their dogs, where they hunt and how they hunt.

Just like I'm sure you are responsible in the way you hunt and I'm sure you've never walked across someone elses property line in the woods or to get to your spot...

I stand hunt but you guys take the cake when it comes to selfishness. Let me guess you'd rather hunt a bait pile or food plot?

You paid for the land then hold the trespassers dog hunter or stand hunter accountable for their actions... I've not had a problem with dogs runnin cross my property runnin deer. I've had them in adjacent feilds but not in my line of sight or area I was hunting.

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from 60256 wrote 3 years 49 weeks ago

I agree with Ontario way back on page one.
I have never tried it, but I believe that hunting with dogs would ruin the experience for me. I will get grilled for this, but I really have a hard time seeing not only the need for dogs, but the difference between hunting with dogs and using ATVs. They are unneeded, and prefer to hunt more of the spot and stalk way than have someone push it my way.
With that said, I will take part in drives, but only if I am one walking; I would have none of it if we got a little extra assistance.

Nate

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 49 weeks ago

Ruin the experience! Just be glad that you are not in an area where they run dogs all over you and truly ruin the experience. Imagine hunting in an area where the dogs have lost the trail and are running arround in circles just a "bawling" What do you think your chances of seeing a deer are? Worse than that: what if you owned land and they let their dogs run on your land? I agree that it is no worse to shoot a deer that has ben chased by an ATV that shoot one in front of a dog. Just aint sporting is it?

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 3 years 49 weeks ago

Shooting, shooting at, wounding deer that are chased by dogs, or that you chase in your PU or on your ATV all falls under 'unfair chase', and all are illegal and considered unethical in most states.

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from Drew McClure wrote 3 years 48 weeks ago

I have never seen a deer being ran by dogs give me an ethical shot, I prefer still hunting scrape lines for trophies. After the rut I don't mind hearing some good dog races, but during prime time I want to still hunt. Arkansas hunters enjoy bow hunting Oct 1- Late Feb plenty of time to bow hunt, still hunt with guns, and have dog races. I mostly want a dog to blood trail in very very thick areas.

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 47 weeks ago

THE WAY A DOGGER THINKS ----- (not my feelings)--- " I say drop the tail gate and let them run-- dont matter where they go-- if there is woods there its our right to hunt it-----
- its our heritage! If they run on someone else property thats fine. Still hunters will just have to deal with it--in fact they should enjoy it. Farmers who suffer loss or damage should come to expect it. After all any good deer dog will chase a horse or cow-- might even kill a chicken or two-- its just part of it. You land owners think you own the world-- the deer belong to the state and its our right to run the deer off your land. Dont tell me how hard it was for you to do without and save enough to buy your land. Dont tell me how hard it is to make it farming these days. You really need to see it our way. We feed those dogs all year to have a little sport during hunting season. You should be thrilled to hear a pack of dogs chasing a deer across you land. You really need to see it our way-- after all, its our heritage.

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from 007 wrote 3 years 47 weeks ago

As a houndsman who has hunted black bear with dogs for the last 20 years, as a landowner, as a bowhunter of whitetails, and as a deer hunter in general, I find it offensive (as well as this post) to be lumped in with others who give some a bad name, and I'm starting to wonder if someone other than the houndmen starting this peeing contest.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Some folks just like to fight about anything! If there is too much interference between hound hunters and still hunters, encourage your state to set separate seasons.

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from Bassmasterking wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

dogs have NOthing to do with skill, it is all preference

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Obviously some of the respondents have never trained a pack of hounds judging by some of the "skill" comments.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Farmers get crop damage from drought,storms, fire, wildlife & insects (Geese, Deer, Hogs, Locust, grass hoppers,corn worms, grubs, beetles, weavels, crows and others)

Ground hogs and burrowers create holes or weaken the ground with their tunnels and cause damage to farm equipment.
People plowing throughb their fields

I've not heard a single case of dogs damaging crops and I live in a dog hunting state. Tell some one else that load of BS.

Most crops are already harvested by the time GUN hunting season has started unless it's winter hay, rye, alfalfa etc and late soy bean crops atleast where I'm at in a DOG HUNTING STATE!
Oh and btw some of those dog hunters are FARMERS themselves!

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T DO IT, YOUR CHOICE!

Don't try to impose your laws/will on others that do.

Law abiding hunters have the right to hunt as long as it is a legal method.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Open your minds a little bit just like the auther of this article:

Hunting Bears With Hounds in Idaho's Boise National Forest

Try reading it if you want It's very informative and a very open minded, fair and refreshing article found on this F&S site.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Someone can't handle facts or rebuke truthful statements once again they lurk in the shadows sniping and minusing LMAO
Yes I'm calling you out

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

BTW Feral cats, weasels, non hunting dogs (pits, rotties, shephards, sheep dogs, terriers,and even labs),cats, hawks, harriers, coyotes, bear, snakes, cougar, and wolves have been known to chase, kill or maim goats, sheep, chickens, calves, foals, ducks, geese, rabbits etc. So don't give me that it's only good deer dogs that do it crap either... because it's NOT true!

It's easy to blame one animal or type of animal you're biased againstthen it is to look at the overall aspect that other domestic breeds and animals are fully capable of and have been recorded as doing the same thing you blame hunting (deer dogs) for.

I also mentioned predatory wildlife as well in that category as well.

Not gonna argue with you over this anymore because one your facts are unfounded and polluted by biased opinion on deer dogs because no other animals in your mind have been recorded in doing the things you accuse the deer dogs of doing, none of these other forementioned animals are capable of it or willing to do it... There is no other reason for me to continue a closed minded biased debate.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Shadow lurker woooo woooo speak your mind and justify yourselfor forever bite your tongue and be the fly on the wall sniping away.
Either way I think you're afraid to speak for yourself and you show your colors well (yellow)

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

NON HUNTING DOGS (pits, rotties, shephards,sheep dogs, mutts, terriers,and even labs),
domestic cats, cats,
Wildlife: feral cats, hawks, harriers, coyotes, bear, snakes, cougar,fox and wolves

All of the formentioned have been known to chase, kill or maim goats, sheep, chickens, calves, foals, ducks, geese, rabbits etc.

So don't give me that it's only good deer dogs or hunting dogs in general that do it crap either... because it's NOT true!

It's easy to blame one animal or type of animal you're biased against then it is to look at the overall aspect that other domestic animals and predatory wildife are fully capable of and have been recorded as doing the same thing you blame hunting (deer dogs) for.Farmers get crop damage from drought,storms, fire, wildlife & insects (Geese, Deer, Hogs, Locust, grass hoppers,corn worms, grubs, beetles, weavels, crows and others)

Ground hogs and other burrowers create holes or weaken the ground in fields or on their edges with their tunnels and cause damage to farm equipment.
People plowing through crop fields and pastures also damage crops.

All Facts and if you can't see that through your single minded biased opinion than so be it but they are facts none the less.

So keep minusing shadow lurker and keep biting your YELLOW tongue. It suits you. But hopefully others that read these posts see through the fog and reallize that:
1. Not all dog hunters are bad people that break the law and are unethical.
2. All Hunters have the right to hunt legally and within the guidelines of their states laws and game regulations.
3. Hunters legally hunting with or without dogs should not be chastized or harrassed for their method, tradition of hunting.
4. Not every hound dog (Hunting dog) is a vicious crop damaging, livestock chasing, blood lusting wildlife/livestock maiming/killing dog. Simply NOT True!
5. Not all dog hunters allow their dogs to trespass on other peoples property.
6. That there are law abiding and respectfuld dog hunters.
7. There are 2 sides to every story.
8. Everyone is biased in some manner.
9. That there are unethical, trespassing, field damaging, poaching STAND HUNTERS out there.

I read more stories about STAND HUNTERS poaching /trespassing whether it's spotlighting, shooting from a vehicle, trespassing on or damaging other peoples property than I hear about dogs doing it
So what does that say about Stand Hunters?

If you've never seen the south or the thickets here than you don't know the benefit of a good hound for coon, deer, rabbit bear, turkey in some cases (fall only).
Not to mention quail, duck, dove and pheasant.
If you never grew up around the sounds of the hunt the singing of the dogs

So shadow lurker speak up or hold your postion in the shadows you're obviously oblivious to the nature of the subject.

Not gonna argue with you over this because your mind is made up and we have different opinions on the subject.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

So keep minusing shadow lurker and keep biting your YELLOW tongue. It suits you. But hopefully others that read these posts see through the fog and reallize that:
1. Not all dog hunters are bad people that break the law and are unethical.
2. All Hunters have the right to hunt legally and within the guidelines of their states laws and game regulations.
3. Hunters legally hunting with or without dogs should not be chastized or harrassed for their method, tradition of hunting.
4. Not every hound dog (Hunting dog) is a vicious crop damaging, livestock chasing, blood lusting wildlife/livestock maiming/killing dog. Simply NOT True!
5. Not all dog hunters allow their dogs to trespass on other peoples property.
6. That there are law abiding and respectfuld dog hunters.
7. There are 2 sides to every story.
8. Everyone is biased in some manner.
9. That there are unethical, trespassing, field damaging, poaching STAND HUNTERS out there.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

I read more stories about STAND HUNTERS poaching /trespassing whether it's spotlighting, shooting from a vehicle, trespassing on or damaging other peoples property than I hear about dogs doing it
So what does that say about Stand Hunters?

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

I read more stories about STAND HUNTERS poaching /trespassing whether it's spotlighting, shooting from a vehicle, trespassing on or damaging other peoples property than I hear about dogs doing it
So what does that say about Stand Hunters?

Let's not forget the stories of Stand Hunters, Stalking and shooting Livestock (cows and horses)that they misidentify as wildlife.

And the stories of stand/still hunters mistakenly shooting other hunters including their hunting companions.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

few examples: BTW No Dogs involved!

Discussion Topic: Oklahoma Man Shot In Poaching Accident

Deer Hunter Kills College Student, Injures Two Others

Minnesota Poacher Busted With World Record-Size 8-Point Buck

Night Hunter Mistakes Park Ranger for Coyote, Shoots Him Dead

Beard Blamed in Turkey Hunting Death
31
A man's camouflage clothing and beard apparently contributed to his shooting death in a weekend hunting accident, Tehama County Sheriff Clay Parker said Monday. Larry Gene Pendley, 54, of Vacaville was shot in the head Saturday morning with a 12-gauge shotgun on the opening day of turkey hunting season ... by Stephen Henderson, 50, of Fremont ...

Illinois Man Sells DVDs Of Himself Running Down Deer

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Illinois Hunter Killed By Friend In Bowhunting Accident
Discussion Topic: Vermont Teen Convicted in Hunting Accident
Another Wildlife Official Caught Poaching
Would-Be Record Muley Was Poached
15-Pointer Poached From Ohio Park
Vermont Dad Tells Son to Poach Moose
Three Californians Charged With Poaching in Yosemite
Former Illinois State Attorney Cited For Poaching Deer
Former Vermont Fish & Wildlife Board Member Caught Poaching Again
700-Pound PA Black Bear Poached Over Pastries
Michigan State Police Jailed For Poaching Deer
Kentucky Man Faces Stiff Poaching Penalties
Front-Page Deer Photo Leads To Poaching Charges
Wisconsin Wolf Poacher Gets $2,500 Fine
Discussion Topic: Elderly Women Charged With Beating Fawn To Death
Discussion Topic Update: Iowa Tree Farmer Convicted of Poaching
Remember Kevin Kelly? He shot a deer out of season that he said was damaging his Iowa tree-farm property. Then he called the state DNR and asked to be charged. He eventually was and promised to argue at his court case that a 1915 Iowa Supreme Court ru ...

Wardens Caught Poaching: Arkansas wildlife officers demoted for Tennessee game violation

Accused Poacher No Einstein - February 26, 2007
Ohio Poacher Picks Right Day, Wrong Warden - February 26, 2007
Internet Bragging Costs Poacher - February 12, 2007

Law-Breaking Outfitter Sentenced to 10 Years - December 19, 2007
Giant Gators In SC 28
... light in the eyes and shoot them??? Up here they call it poaching! Cheers C what a pig that gator is what a pig that gator is ...
Record Ram 47
... felon with them on the hunt of a lifetime?? The Lewton poaching incident has been all over the news here in Montana so even though

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

LMAO! Struck a nerve huh all these facts and none involving Hunting dogs or Dog Hunters OH MY, MY, MY!

I stand hunt. I have mutual respect for all Hunters that do it legally and within the guidelins of their states laws and regs.
They are entitled to Hunt the way they choose, Like I choose to Bow, Rifle and shotgun Hunt. I hunt deer with a shotgun (Slugs and at times Buckshot) The thickets determine that. I plane to hunt with my Hunting dog whether it's rabbit, birds or squirrel or I may even join my cousin on one of his deer hunting ventures with his dogs or even a coon hunt.

IMVHO: Stand hunter's kill or maim and wound more livestock, trespass, POACH and do more damage to property then the dog hunters and their dogs and they take more reckless shots without positively identifying their targets. Atleast that's what the media topics on F&S , Outdoor Life, Mossy Oak and I'm sure oother publications have on them about poachers, trespasssers and hunting accidents.

I can find more examples I'm sure. I'll try to find some livestock ones and share them as well since I've gotten such a warm response of minuses.

Not gonna argue just keep adding to my previous statements until someone justifies to me why Deer or any type of Dog hunting should be banned or is unethical.

Unethical is not a justification
Trespassing is not a justification
Fair Chase is not a justification
Baiting and Fenced/Canned hunts are not a justification.
Lack of respect for others choice of hunting Not a justification
Lack of respect for landowners not a justification.
Property Damage Not a justification
Crop damage: Not a justification
Livestock harassment/killing not a justification

Because:
BTW: Stand/ Still Hunters make and take unethical shots as well. Some of those shots wound, cripple or eventually kill the animal but none the less it's still an unethical or questionable shot.
And reasons given in previous posts.

So before you beat up the Dog hunters and their dogs look in your own neck of the woods and at your fellow unethical hunters in your chosen way of hunting.

Look forward to the minuses from the shadow lurkers: Thank you! Much appreciated and truth sure does hurt don't it.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

BTW Hound hunters from my understanding tend to recover more game they've taken than a stand hunter.
The dogs find them / their trails.

BTW The Dog hunters don't leave game to bleed out over night either.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Man aims at coyote, shoots cow | Kalamazoo News Archive - MLive ...
And anyway, shooting coyotes is illegal during deer-shooting season. Authorities asked the ... I don't know how he hit a several-thousand-pound cow mistaking it for a coyote," Heckman ...

Cows, Bull Mistaken For Deer Shot - News Story - WPXI Pittsburgh

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SALTLICK TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- A Fayette County family looks for justice after hunters shot three of their cows and a bull. The two suspects said they thought the animals were deer when they shot them on the first day of deer hunting season in November. That is little comfort to their owner, Sadie Sipe. She lost her favorite milking cow, her 5-month-

Cows, Bull Mistaken For Deer Shot 2 People Face Animal Cruelty Charges For Shooting Animals ... She lost her favorite milking cow, her 5-month-old calf, another cow and bull.
idaho mountain express : Cow and calf moose gunned down - Information ...
Cow and calf moose gunned down Information leading ... They should not have been mistaken for anything." ... Various Wood River Valley deer and elk hunting

Officers seek archers after several incidents - Hunting Violation ...
The cow, which Kendrick said still has a calf, is a large black animal that would not likely be mistaken for a deer. "There's no way this could have been an accident," he ...

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

WAM and 007 I tried to give you pluses but the snipers took em away.
BTW Well said Gentleman. Happy Hunting

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Someone can't handle the facts....So closed minded and biased against a tradition/hunting style they no nothing about or have had limited or NO experiences with and yet they are very quick to condemn it.
The headlines forementioned speak for themselve had NO Hunting dogs involved and yet hmm there was guns, archery, poaching, killing of other hunters and some non hunters and killing of livestock.

I'm pro hunting and I don't respect you hypocrites quick to blame hunting dogs and dog hunters when there is more about incidents of property damage, accidental shootings, livestock endangerment, trespassing than there are of the legally hunting (dog hunters) out there. Yet you condemn them.

You just want quiet in the woods
You don't want dogs runnin on the adjacent property
You don't want dogs running game

Got it but as long as it's legal than by all means let em hunt because stand hunting/stilll hunting if you want to use your analogies is no better or worse.

Also, btw no matter how a game animal is killed it is still looked down upon and judged by non hunters!
CityPeople/Town People /Rural people/ Non Hunters still want to ban hunting and are upset by seeing game in the backs of trucks.
They think all hunters are unethical inhumane etc

So either way you want to take away one tradition/style of hunting to impose your views/ways of hunting and increase food plots/baiting cause it's easier than trailin game with a dog or just sittin on the edge of a crop field and using the rub lines, browsing lines, bedding ares, roosts, natural forrage.

Simply put if you are a person who dis agrees with dog hunting don't do it.

If you are a landowner/hunter that doesn't like hunt clubs don't join one.

If you move to a state by choice from another state and the state you move to allows hunting with dogs. Than accept that states laws or do research before you move their and chose a county that may not allow hunting /hunting with dogs because they are mainly urban sprawl.

If you have land and don't want dogs on it don't wine and complain about adjacent land leases put up a livestock fence and enjoy your hunt. Though I've not had an incident hunting land where dogs were run on adjacent property and they don't run deer across my parents land which is also ajacent to a dog huntewrs land.

If a dog hunter/ still/stand hunter was trying to enter property that is yours and you see it you do the right thing: If the land is posted or not. You confront, get their tags, warn them or you call law enforcement to handle the situation you obviously cannot deal with yourself.

Thank you in advance for your close minded unfounded and biased minuses!

You guys are real peices of work. Hypocrites.
To each their

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

I forgot another thing (i get it)
You don't want dogs trespassing/on your property

I'm doing this because some people will say you're not listening and you don't get what we're trying to say... blah blah blah!

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Interrestring facts on Non hunting dog incidents: Headlines found online:

Potential benefits
with using guard dogs
A good guard dog that is well
supervised can:
➤ reduce predation.
➤ reduce labor that was previously
required to confine or
corral sheep at night.
➤ make more efficient use of pastures
and improve the condition
of sheep if night confinement
is no longer needed.
➤ increase the use of acres where
predators used to make grazing
prohibitive.
➤ provide the opportunity to
increase the size of the flock or
herd if more acres are free of
predators.
➤ alert owner to predator and
other disturbances near the
livestock.
➤ increase the owner’s selfreliance
in managing predator
problem.
➤ provide protection for family
members and farm property.
Potential problems
with using guard dogs
Guard dogs require training and
supervision, but there are no guarantees
that their temperament will
allow them to be a good guard
dog. Even a trained dog must be
supervised because they may:
➤ harass livestock resulting in
injury or death.
➤ be overly aggressive to people.
➤ harass wildlife or other livestock.
➤ destroy property.
➤ be subject to illness, injury or
premature death.
➤ roam beyond farm boundaries
causing problems with neighbors.
➤ interfere when livestock are
moved or interfere with herd
dog.
➤ affect the use of other predator
methods.

Hastings farmer kills pit bull after attack on cow
Johns County Animal Control official said Blanton's dog was involved in an attack against Secorsky's goat earlier this month. Blanton was found guilty in a St. Johns County courtroom two weeks ago and was fined up to $500 for the attack but…
St. Augustine Record
·
1 day ago
Family Pit Bull Fatally Mauls SoCal Toddler
The child, whose name has not been released, was taken to Loma Linda University Medical Center with head injuries after the attack. No one else was hurt. Walker says the family had more than one dog, but only one was involved in the attack.
KPIX
·
1 day ago
Two dogs kill four pet sheep in Petersburg
... Southdown sheep kept as pets in a fenced area in historic Petersburg were mauled to death yesterday morning by two roaming dogs. "It was ... For us this WILL be a lessoned learned. One commented here about the prior attack on the sheep…
Richmond Times-Dispatch
·
5/22/2010
Survey: Addressing Saginaw's dangerous dogs
View full size Jeff Schrier | The Saginaw News One of the pit bulls involved in last year's attack that injured several people in Buena Vista Township stands in its cage at the Saginaw County Animal Care Center, 1312 Gratiot in Saginaw.…
MLive.com
·
5/27/2010
Wolves kill 13 sheep in hills near Boise
... Mitchell, a Fish and Game spokesman, says such attacks were to be expected: There are domestic sheep grazing in Boise's undulating mountains, and there have been wolves here off-and-on for years. Mitchell advises keeping dogs on a leash…
Oregonian
·
5/27/2010
Court Docket: Woman faces new charges of allowing dogs to…
One of the dogs died. Because of the vicious nature of the attack, and because the pit bull did not have a dog license or vaccinations, the dog was seized by Livingston County Animal Control. The owner asked animal control officials to…
Livingston Daily.com
·
5/26/2010
Boy’s arm ripped open in dog attack
The attack came as the teenager - who can't be named for legal reasons - put up posters pleading for help to find his own dog, a labrador called Daxter ... His dad, a telecoms analyst, said: "Medics have told us the odds on him being…
The Sun
·
5/27/2010
Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to ... 

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Check out a sneak peak of Scribd's new HTML reading experience. Learn more about the future of reading.

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 22, 2009

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada ... Merritt Clifton editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE. Dog Statistics USA Canada fatal attack ... Dogsbite Report Dog Attacks on Livestock and Horse ...
www.scribd.com/doc/24436191/Dog-attack-deaths-and-maimings-U-S-Canada-Se...... · Cached page

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

1. Not all dog hunters are bad people that break the law and are unethical.
2. All Hunters have the right to hunt legally and within the guidelines of their states laws and game regulations.
3. Hunters legally hunting with or without dogs should not be chastized or harrassed for their method, tradition of hunting.
4. Not every hound dog (Hunting dog) is a vicious crop damaging, livestock chasing, blood lusting wildlife/livestock maiming/killing dog. Simply NOT True!
5. Not all dog hunters allow their dogs to trespass on other peoples property.
6. That there are law abiding and respectfuld dog hunters.
7. There are 2 sides to every story.
8. Everyone is biased in some manner.
9. That there are unethical, trespassing, field damaging, poaching STAND HUNTERS out there.

I read more stories about STAND HUNTERS poaching /trespassing whether it's spotlighting, shooting from a vehicle, trespassing on or damaging other peoples property than I hear about dogs doing it

Not gonna argue just keep adding to my previous statements until someone justifies to me why Deer or any type of Dog hunting should be banned or is unethical.

Unethical is not a justification
Trespassing is not a justification
Fair Chase is not a justification
Baiting and Fenced/Canned hunts are not a justification.
Lack of respect for others choice of hunting Not a justification
Lack of respect for landowners not a justification.
Property Damage Not a justification
Crop damage: Not a justification
Livestock harassment/killing not a justification

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

I see I have alot of fans that can't stand to hear the truth or justify why dog hunting should be banned.

I also see that no one is willing to rebuke the true statements I posted about stand/still hunting accidents, livestock shootings
and showing other dogs than HUNTING dogs are fully capable and more noted as harassing/injuring/killing livestock.

Also that Crop damage occurs due to acts of nature, wildlife and peoples (hunters and non hunters)

The fact that both sides of the line Dog Hunters and Stand/Still hunters have good and bad personnel:
Both have people who break the law, trespass,take unethical shots,

So who's close minded now? Who's not listening?
Who is showing lack of respect for other Hunters, land owners (BTW Dog Hunters own land,farm and manage their property too) OMG what a shocker!

You hypocrites are that's who! So quit whining accept that they are fellow hunters.
Accept that Stand/Still hunters have their fair share of unethical,traspassing personnel as well.

You don't lkike it Don't do it!
As WAM said ask for seperate seasons(if you can't share public lands or put up a fence, or let them enjoy their legal method of hunting on leased or even their own property or their friend/families property.

But you can't accept that or any other facts that support dog hunting in a good way. You can't and aren't willing to compromise.

You can't accept their are some bad apples on your side of the house and you get butt hurt when someone points it out to YOU!

Thank you for the minuses! Thanks for the open mindeness.

Most of all I appreciate the ability of being able to show how much of biased group of people you are and the fact you can't accept facts.

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

HE!! NO!!!! I cant accept the fact that deer dogs will invade, trespass,run deer on my property that I sweated blood and tears for. It completely ruins my hunting on my property that I have e right to hunt without trespassing dogs. I spent a lot of time and money preparing my land to hunt in peace and quite. Ya'll must think you have a right to hunt MY land by running the deer with dogs to a place where you can shoot them. That is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Many of us are madder than HE** and are trying to outlaw deer dogging

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

No one here said they want to unleash an onslaught of hunting dogs on your property!
No one here said they feel they have the right to do so or to hunt on your property!
If someone feels that way then they are WRONG and if they act upon their misguided delusions they are wrong and breaking the law and are not respecting you as a landowner and they are not HUNTERS they are not acting responsibly.
They should be held accountable for their actions whether they are stand or dog hunters!
It is your property and you alone have the right to hunt, farm, protect, preserve, or do what you want to include allowing or disallowing hunting on your property or not allowing people or domestic animals on your property. (Dogs, Cats, Cattle, etc)

Laws, Property rights and land owners right, hunters rights and hunting laws/regs were put in place for a reason.

Fences, posted signs, marking tape/paint, deeds, platts, cameras, pens, pencils, paper, phones, license plates, hunting/fishing permission cards alll serve a purpose if used for what they are intended to do.

Neighbors communicationg with neighbors on adjacent property about activities or respect and responsibility also has a place.
We don't do that anymore we'd rather ruffle feathers and bang drums on TV and online instead of talking to a neighbor and handling a situation rapidly and easily.

Example: I had a guy walk up on me who didn't have permission to be there, I immediately confronted him and then went to the land owner the land owner spoke with him and told him he no longer had access to the property. The guy never came back.

I don't see a reason to blame or ban one style of hunting over another due to bias. Especially when stand hunters drive thru fields, shoot livestock, trespass, sit on adjacent land and shoot game on other peoples property and try to claim it ran over there so they were retreving it.... Without notifying or trying to notify the land owner or having permission to do so.

So therefore I see no viable reason to ban deer hunting with dogs because of a few bad apples on both sides of the fence and the undue bias and closed mindedness.

I respect dog and stand hunters. I do not respect the ones or anyone that trespass or believe they have the right to trespass or conduct illegal activities. I also respect landowners, I think it is their right to utilize their property and to also post it and act in accordnace with the laws. I also think they should Identify, Report, Intercept, Approach, Confront a trespasser or someone that has damaged their property and hold the individuals ACCOUNTABLE not the Entire group of hunters that are following the Regs/Laws put in place for them to enjoy their rights to hunt on property that they are LEGALLY hunting.

They have a right to Hunt just like stand hunters and bait hunters have the right to hunt so long as it is LEGAL! There is no reason or justification to ban hunting with dogs.

I'm pretty sure this is what I've been saying all along and just like before it will go in one ear and out the other, I will get minused again with no reply or common courtesy of a reply.

I understand the crowd I'm debating with as being biased, closed minded and hypocritical for the most part.

What is going to happen when the dogs are gone and it's your neighbor trespassing to retreive game he shot on your property from his or if he decides he wants to hunt your property by conductin a drive or just drives his truck up on it and decided to do donuts in your field? Are you gionna want to ban stand hunting then? Or are you going to hold the bad apples accountable without bias?

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from virge wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

I agree with 257. The deer doggers wont control the dogs and those dogs will trespass on other property and thats wrong. In the state of Fla there is a big fine for trespassing deer dogs and not many other states allow deer dogs at all. Here, There is no recourse for dogs running on our land here and its not against the law. Deer doggers cant be held acountable for trespassing dogs. There is more "bad apples" than you think I feel that the doggers are the ones who are closed minded and biased. They cant understand why we dont want those dogs on our property. You better not mention infringement or property rights or controlling the dogs to them. That is why We will need to continue our battle to ban deer dogs here because the doggers do not respect property rights. At our last meeting, many property owners said that they would release dogs a few feet from their property line in an attempt to run the deer back that they had run off their land.I say, Either pass a law against trespassing dogs (not likely here) or ban it completely which is a good possibility. If there is any deer doggers who act responsibly we have not met them. You say they have a right to hunt if its legal. Its not illegal to turn out deer dogs 10 ft from someones property line as long as they themselfs dont cross that line. It is not illegal for those dogs to run on your property and that is flat wrong!!! Not illegal just WRONG!! If it were illegal maybe we wouldn't have this problem. Something must be done!

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

I disagree with you both on a ban or making itb illegal. You ever heard of a group called Gun Dog Coalition I think they will put up a hell orf a fight to maintain the rights for All dog hunters.

I hope they continue the fight.

Most of the dog hunters I know use Collars with tags rivetted to them. The tags have all the information you need to contact and return the the dogs. Most of them also use tracking collars, dyes and tattoos as well as microchips to ensure the dogs are returned and are accounted for.
The bad apples are the ones predominantly not using collars at all and just letting their dogs run rampant.

I have had dog hunters ask me if their collared dogs that I returned to them had interrupted my hunt or caused damage and were concerned with the dogs health and where it was found. Because the dogs tend to go to the roads or right a ways around here or to the nearest person they find in my experience that tells me those guys don't want their dogs on other peoples property and they want their dogs retrieved and that says alot about them. So that being said and knowing how my kin take care of their dogs and ensure the dogs are recovered and not causing problems I respect them and feel they have the right to hunt and continue to hunt.

I know there are bad apples on both sides (dog and stand hunters) I've repeatedly stated that.
Whether it's greed, negligence, not givin a rip about anyone else or thewir property.

You're right it is not right for them to turn out 10 feet from adjacent property and expect the dogs who don't know what a property line is to stay on their side of the property unless there is a barrier (fence).
But they have the right to HUNT THEIR PROPERTY if it is 10 feet from an adjacent property just like a STILL/STAND hunter has the right to shotgun, bow or rifle hunt 10 feet from adjacent property. And don't say that those still/ stand hunters are all honest and law abiding and don't shoot deer or other game on the adjacent property. Because some of them do. Some of them ignore the signs or known property lines and cross them even if it is fenced off. I've seen it and had it happen!
I had a hunt club try to conduct a drive on land I had permission to hunt on and they DID NOT! They tried to tell me I needed to leave because they were hunting it and had leased it though they didn't even know who owned the land.

You want something done about it you confront them when they trespass. You get their tags you get their vehicle and personal description. You hold them accountable for any trespass, neglect or damage they do and you put up posted signs, marking tape or paint and you give only people you want to hunt or access your land written permission to do so. If you recover a dog with a tagged collar you call the number and when ol boy comes to retrieve the dog you have a face to face discussion and if you're inclined you invite a deputy or a game warden along to witness it.

I have met dog hunters that have acted responsibly and some that did not.
I've met Stand hunters that acted responsibly and those that have not.

A dog might leave poop but stand hunters i've run into left trash, ruts in fields, torn up roads, broken gates.
We can debate this forever because both sides have bad apples.

There are laws in place and they are enforced when they are actually reported.
I don't see a reason to ban dog hunting. I see a reason for the possibilty of separate seasons afforded for them much like the separation of Archery, Muzzleloader and Modern Firearms seasons.

The landscape is too thick not to use dogs in some areas especially in swamps and in some of the thickets I hunt near. Those thickets mainly contain the dogs when they are used in hunting deer. I guess that's part of the reason I've not had as many problems with dog hunters as you 2 obviously had.

Let's just agree to disagree on this. I'll accept my minuses and the biased reactions I have gotten and leave it at that.
I think I've made a point somewhat, Atleast I've stated what
I feel is right and on time / on target. You don't have to agree or open your minds and life is too short for this.

I will say that if you ban hunting of any type or assist the antis in succeeding you're shooting your self in the foot and we will lose more hunters and when we lose those hunters we lose numbers and funding to support hunting, conservation and habitat. We lose our VOICE or speaking power our power to fight the antis.
Without other hunters and with the decline in hunting/hunters and properties to hunt We ALL Everyone of us LOSE! WE AS A WHOLE FAIL AND FAIL EACH OTHER!
Everything I've said is based on facts I know and my own experiences with both stand and dog hunters.

So go on and aid the antis and continue to be biased and seek the ban on dog hunting knowing instead of being part of a solution you're part of the problem and the cause for a decline in hunters and hunting rights, property to hunt and loss of voice when it comes to preserving the right to hunt.

You can seek laws you can protect land by mrking, fencing and reporting trespassers and holding the bad apples accontable.

I will be fencing my property and posting it because I will be investing alot of time energy and money into it and my dog. No one is going to tell me I can't hunt my land or work my land or let my dog run on my land and I take offense to anyone and will not bow down to anyone who tries to. I'll defend my rights and property and my dog with everything I have legally and within my right.

No one! NO one has the right to force their views and wishes on anyone legally and citizens in this country (AMERICA) because we are given basic human rights, the bill of rights and the Constitution to protect our rights to own property, to hunt, to have freedom.

That goes for you me or anyone else in this country abiding by the laws.
I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and the rights and freedom of the people of this country and the freedom of this nation and I take that seriously. I also take the defense of my personal freedoms and rights and those of my family just as seriously. Since I beleive in the right to hunt and fish how you choose to legally I will defend it.

If you were to come on my property you'd better have a better reason than what I'm doin on it or the fact that I own a dog or the fact I stand hunt or am hunting.

So I know how the dog hunters feel when this biased and obvious want to ban a tradition of theirs and their way of hunting. Especially when stand hunters are just as guilty of similar more frequent showing of lack of respect for others and property.

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from 86Ram wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

No one! NO one has the right to force their views and wishes on anyone legally and citizens in this country (AMERICA) because we are given basic human rights, the bill of rights and the Constitution to protect our rights to own property, to hunt, to have freedom.

That goes for you me or anyone else in this country abiding by the laws. (Stand and Dog Hunters Alike)

I take the defense of my personal freedoms and rights and those of my family and freinds just as seriously. Since I beleive in the right to hunt and fish how you choose to legally I will defend it.

Virge and 275 atleast you gave a reply and speak your mind and allowed me to do the same. The shadow lurker though has no intestinal fortitude or opinion other than sniping in minuses. I guess they like to remain in the shadows and hide rather than justify their minus.

I've stated my opinion and I am done with this subject. Life is too short. Take care and happy hunting.
I still see no reason to ban dog hunting or stand hunting.

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from br579 wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

deer hunting with dogs is a infringement on the other hunters unless they can control their dogs. by their own admission, they say they cant control where the dogs run. i dont think they have a right to infringe on my rights. i dont care how others hunt until they start infringing on the way i hunt which is way to often

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from MPN wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

If they can keep the dogs on their property then why not? It's their property and their rights, but just keep them from infringing on others rights.

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from virge wrote 3 years 42 weeks ago

A QUESTION FOR YOU DEER DOGGERS *** By your own admissions, you cant controll where your dogs go, SO, what gives you the right to allow those dogs to trespass on someone else's land??? You dont seem to mind infringing on someone else's rights but you dont want (what you call) your rights infringed on. I will respect your "rights" if you respect mine. If you have a right to allow your dogs to trespass then the land owner, certainly, has a right to protect his investment by what ever means he can. RIGHT? If you dont want your dogs trapped, then keep them on your own property. I dont mind you running dogs on your land *** BUT *** I'm not gonna put up with dogs running on my land. It ruins my hunting just so you can have your fun. Once again, What gives you the fight to allow dogs your dogs to invade some one else's land and infringe on their rights???

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from mikeclow85 wrote 3 years 42 weeks ago

I don't agree with hunting with dogs however I respect the fact that its legal in places and that it is a tradition that used properly shouldn't always stay that way. What I don't like us the use of STILL HUNTER or DOG HUNTER. We are all hunters and if you have had bad experiances with a person using that particular method do not condem a whole group of people. I saw a post were someone saw a doe and fawn killed by STILL HUNTERS and wasted. If you were not there and didn't witness it don't assume you know it was still hunters. Poachers are poachers and they could've used dogs also. Or a spot light, you don't know. Anther post stated coming upon a drunken dog hunter in a box on his truck. That is that indivduals poor choice to hunt while drinking. I still hunt and know of others who unfortunatly would rather drink than be a proper role model. Thank goodness I don't hunt with or near them. We all need to find some sort of common ground just to ensure that we can hunt at all in this country. So lets let the unifying of all hunters begin!

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

I will only "UNIFY" with the doggers when they start controlling their dogs and keep them off my land. They "SAY" they dont want their dogs to trespass. Well, we can find some common ground, as you say, when they Keep their dogs off us. The common ground the doggers want is to let them puppies run on every one's land. After all if there is woods there then its their God-given right to run their dogs across it. Sure we will respect their "rights" when they start respecting ours. I'snt property rights as important as running dogs?

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from 007 wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

Good grief, here we go again!!! I thought sure this thread had run it's course.

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from 007 wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

257ack, rest assured, this is the very LAST time I will stir this pile. I understand your concern about property rights, but for your sake I hope you never find yourself in a jam where you need those evil deer doggers to help with some calamity that may befall you because you may find that you have alienated your neighbors over something way less important than, Heave forbid, that fire, flood, missing child, sick family member, trip to the ER, the vehicle that slid out of the slick road, or whatever. Good luck with it.

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

The only ones the doggers will help is themselfs, so I'm not counting on them. In fact, Last season one of my neighbors was going arround a curve on a dirt road when 2- 4wds with dog boxes came sliding arround (must have been trying to get ahead of the dogs) and ran her off the road. They never came back and she had to call a tow truck.

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from rock rat wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

I started reading this thread last night, took me most of the first page to realize it was an old thread. Wish I could have told Outdorrchick that even though they don't hunt deer or bear with dogs out here I certainly am glad they do where he is at and that he enjoys doing so. It's all hunting right?

One of the best stories ever told in the English Language is about the hunt of one bear with dogs.

http://www.enotes.com/short-story-criticism/bear-william-faulkner

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from DogRunninGirl wrote 3 years 1 week ago

just saying but i cant tell you how many times i've had still hunters stop by me while im running dogs and say thank you cause we ran a deer to them that they have killed so to all you still hunters your welcome and we dont mind doing the work while you sit there :)

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from nchunt101 wrote 3 years 1 week ago

what work do dog hunters do? i have worked for an outfitter in eastern nc specializing in deer hunting. we bushhog, place stands, cut shooting lanes etc so clients have a good time and get thier monies worth. around all of our leases 2500+ acres dog hunter drop dogs and ruin not only my personal hunting but that of clients. I have no poblem if people want to run dogs on a big enough block 2000+ acres but the clubs that do that here in eastern nc and southern va dont do that. also i feel that bucks shot in front of dogs have no right to be recognized in record books. what skill is there in shooting a booner from the road? if people from areas that do not allow dog hunting had to tolerate we still hunters in eastern nc had to live with they would be foming at the mouth. the deer becom nocturnal, ALL DEER ARE SHOT, deer are thrown on top of a dog box a ridden around to be shown off until the meat spoils, gates cut and posted signs used for toliet paper. dog hunting is for people who are too lazy to actually HUNT and need a large group of people to actually kill something to be sucessful. in my opinion shooting a deer being run by dogs is no harder than killing one with a spotlight

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from nchunt101 wrote 3 years 1 week ago

i would also like to add i rabbit hunt woth beagles and have respect for bear hounds, those dogs are trained. any dog will run a deer no training needed.

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from cptanselmi wrote 2 years 49 weeks ago

I can tell you that deer hunting with dogs is illegal in Colorado.

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from virge wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

Yes, and it soon will be illegal in the handful of un-civilized states that still allow it. Even in those states it is being more regulated. Deer dogging is just a form of infringing on others and they think that they have that right. They dont care how much misery that they cause you as long as they have their fun. They have no respect for property rights and allow their dogs to trespass on mine and others lands. Some of us are working hard to make sure that it becomes illegal here and that will eventually come to pass.

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from 007 wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

Virge, and then when someone decides that they don't approve of something YOU enjoy legally and ethically, archery, black powder, or whatever, and they decide to make it illegal because they don't like it, you'll be in the same boat as the dog folks you're trying to throw under the bus; instead of trying to find common ground and work together against those who oppose us and don't really care what type of hunting it is, they just want to ban it all, in this case by divide and conquer, you're foolishly playing right into their hands. Why can't you people see this?? The PETA folks must love guys like you.

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from virge wrote 2 years 40 weeks ago

If I'm doing something that greatly infringes on someones rights then thats not ethical and it should be made illegal. (Just good common sense) Common ground would be that I wont push to outlaw dogging if they dont run dogs on my land. Its the doggers that cause all the trouble with their "if there are woods then its my God given right to run dogs there" attitude. Believe me they dont want any common ground, Just the right to let their dogs trespass on my land and they will not give an inch. Sure, we would work with them but they let and often cause the dogs to trespass and then say "my dogs cant read". Well, if they cant (wont)keep them off private property then it should be outlawed. I cant tell you what all I gave up just to have a little piece of my own land to enjoy. Instead of enjoying it has become pure misery.

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from scrawford8872 wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

Hunt whatever way you want, as long as its legal. Personally, I just wonlt take a shot on a moving target.

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from 257ack wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

scrawford, let me ask you a question. You say to hunt whatever way you want, as long as its legal. In my case the doggers back up within a few feet of my property line and turn loose. That is LEGAL but it is WRONG!!!. When I approached those doggers they told me "I cant help which way my dogs run" I sweated blood and tears to save enough to buy 120 ac just to hunt in piece and quite. I will not shoot a deer in front of a dog so it completly ruins all enjoyment of my land. If I bought a new truck then I would have a right to enjoy it. Is not property more valuable than a truck? Dosn't your right stop when it greatly violates my right?

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from Teikataz wrote 2 years 35 weeks ago

I have an idea ! why don't you just get a baby, bottle feed it, raise it in your yard until it's full grown, then walk out and shoot it and tell all your friends what a hard , smart , thing you did !( it is kind of like sitting in a tree stand all day or setting up a feeding station, takes brains and hard work to get one like that ) That way, you don't have to do any work, get any exercise tracking or anything ! my goodness I can't believe I thought of that..... I'm soo darn proud of myself!!!!

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from LC wrote 2 years 31 weeks ago

Deer dogs are a huge problem in my area in Arkansas. The owners have no respect for private land or any one else hunting around them. If a deer dog hunter can not keep his dogs off of land he does not have permission to be on then he should lose the privelage to use deer dogs. If in a certain area it is basically impossible to control deer dogs then that area should be banned to deer dogs. Private property owners should have more rights on their land than deer dogs or their owners.

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from ten0see43 wrote 2 years 31 weeks ago

LC I feel your pain. And you are correct sir, doggers dont care about how you sweated to buy your land and to prepare it for you to hunt on. All they care about is having their fun at others expense. Unfortunately you have no right to protect your property and there is no law against trespassing dogs even if they turn loose 5 feet from your line. All that is changing slowly. Even Arkansas has outlawed dogs in many areas. Out of the 6 or 7 other states or portions thereof, more and more restrictions for deer dogs are being implemented. About half of Ga. and Al. are now closed to doggin. Fla has a law against trespassing deer dogs. This is because more and more of us are contacting our politicians and complaining. You and others in your area need to flood your politicians with complaints. Change will come.

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from drskintbackkennels wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

I had a still hunter SHOOT one of my dogs. How ethical is that.

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from virge wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

Almost as unethical as letting your dogs trespass on his land. I'll bet that dog dont trespass on somebody any more.Most of us are so fed up that we sometimes take matters in our own hands.Most of the time thats the only recourse we have. If you cant control them then dont run them. Something has to be done to protect property rights. Property rights are more important than deer dogs. And as Tennosee said "contact your politicians"

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from drskintbackkennels wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

Why dont you go eat a sandwich in your stand and beat your meat virge. People like you are the reason I have to take matters in my own hand and break the law.

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from drskintbackkennels wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

Why dont you go eat a sandwich in your stand and beat your meat virge. People like you are the reason I have to take matters in my own hand and break the law.

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from drskintbackkennels wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

VIRGE you are stating that shooting a domestic animal is ethical. Whats the point in calling a politician, reckon its because both of you could care less about the law. I have GPS collars on all my dogs and never turn out on land thats not mine. If a dog could read he would not trespass and they would make a better politician than you or the guys you call to report it. How would you like a still hunter to shoot you family Shih tzu cause he ran by him while he was in the stand eating his sandwich. It works both ways, Also there is a stiffer fine in shooting a dog than trespassing here in NC. There is also a 5000 dollar fine for tampering with an electronic device that an owner puts on his dog to keep control of it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

To many times I've drove around the corner on a Forrest road and be looking down the barrel of a fella in back of his pick up drinking beer with a group of guys running dogs.

So my thoughts of running deer with dogs is obvious!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

Times have changed as we no longer have free roaming cattle clearing the under brush.

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from drskintbackkennels wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

Thats 1 forrest road out of thousands that are out there. You just let 1 person ruin your opinion about it then that just shows your ignorance.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

I probably have more experience with hunters running dogs than anyone here. 007 may not like to hear what I have to say because it involves our state but the unethical dog hunters outnumber the ethical dog hunters 10 to 1. That is why the ethical hunters have such a bad time trying to find a place to hunt and take the grief from everyone. My complaints from landowners were numerous when raccoon and bear season came in when the hunters started running them with dogs. Don't get me wrong I have hunted bear with dogs, and some of my good friends are dog hunters. Our problem is that our big tracts of land are being subdivided and there aren't many big tracts of land where a hunter can run his dog without getting on posted land. The place I deer hunt is small and we don't want people running dogs on our property and one of the guys who owns the property has bear dogs and runs his on National Forest. Things and situations change and we have to change with them. We as hunters have to respect each others sport and each others property.

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from drskintbackkennels wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

I juust got back from riding off a piece and sure enough there are 2 deer at the end of the service road by my house with their horns cut off. Big bodied deer dont know how big they were but bow season come in here two weeks ago, guess them darn dog hunters turned out and shot these deer with their bow, cut the horns off and left them. We all know both sides break the law but I see this every year. When I was a child I killed a robin and my Grandad cooked that sucker up and made me eat it(never did that again) i quit duck hunting years ago because I dont eat ducks. At least what I dont eat off killing deer with my dogs I give to them and they will eat it all.

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from 007 wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

Sarge, you get no argument from me, for the most part we (and not just we houndsmen) are our own worst enemy, showing our worst side in public instead of the better. I hope hound hunting outlives me but the jury is still out.

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from billyjo bondurant wrote 2 years 29 weeks ago

I would love to take my dog hunting. she has a way of hypnetising the deer so that the deer moves closer. and she will run up to a snake and touch it with her nose.

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from Bigg Matt Smith wrote 2 years 25 weeks ago

Ive been on dog drives all my life in the lower part of SC. I love it, its a lot of fun, and ive NEVER seen a decrease in deer population because of it. And i know some people dont like it, but those people have never done it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 24 weeks ago

BMS

All depends on the area you hunt.

Allot of illegal deer do get shot and some wounded.

As for myself why I'm no longer for it?

I'm fed up driving around a corner looking down a barrel of someone standing in the back of a pickup bed with a ice chest full of beer!

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from Derek Jeffords wrote 2 years 23 weeks ago

and for all you people that think you cant kill a big bug dog hunting jus last week a big buck was killed in front of my dogs and the funny thing is that i have been tryin to kill that deer still huntin for a while now. every time i got him on camera it was like 12 o'clock at night so i would never be able to kill him, but with the help of my dogs they made him come out in the middle of the day and we finally got him. so dog huntin is a lot more fun and effective than still huntin even though i like both. and for those of you who say that the dogs drive the big bucks out then how come that big buck has stayed in our club for a while now until we shot him? so that proves that the dogs wont make your deer leave because deer are somewhat territorial and they tend to stay in the same places unless a bigger or more mature deer pushes them out not a dog.

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from Derek Jeffords wrote 2 years 23 weeks ago

to clay cooper not all places have rules on what type of deer you can shoot justhow many, and if u r only allowed 3 does and 2 bucks or somethin like thatand you shoot over your bag limit then someone else can claim the deer and it is no longer illegal. and i see nothing wrong with doing that because bag limits are not made to keep an individual from shooting what he wants but to ensure that all hunters in the area dont kill to many deer and thin down the population to much. and not all dogs hunters get drunk. in our club no one is allowedto drink during the day if they want to hunt and we have stand numbers down the road and we draw numbers out of a hat to pick stands so that everyone is spaced out safely and that no one is riding around gettin shot at. so as u can see not all dog hunters are a bunch of dumb drunk idiots that dont worry about safety.

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from Derek Jeffords wrote 2 years 23 weeks ago

and one more thing if dog hunting is outlawed what do you think all the dumb drunk idiots that give dog hunters a bad name are gunna do? they are gunna come on the land of all you still hunters that are complaining rite now and start fire hunting, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? i didnt think so, so just be careful for what you wish for.

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from CoBowHunter wrote 2 years 23 weeks ago

Wow! Obviously this topic has hit a nerve or two or a thousand. The mere fact that many are commenting on this topic indicates to me that there isn't agreement on this technique of using dogs. I don't ever want to discourage hunting, so I really wont comment. However, when we hunt, we expect a reasonable challenge for the effort and we would all like to do this so it's not interferring with others enjoyment of the sport. I support hunting and as long as it's not just shooting and the majority agree with the approach and conservation is on the forefront of the approach, I'm good with it.

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from wildcaller11 wrote 2 years 23 weeks ago

i feel you have the right to do this, but i don't think it is very sporting. it defiantly takes away from the "man vs. beast" aspect of hunting, and i wouldn't do it. i strongly support the use of dogs to track a deer you have shot, though that is a slightly different matter. i understand it is not much different from hunting birds if you get right down too it...but i don't find that as logical of an appeal, seeing as deer are larger and can not hide as easily, where as birds can.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 22 weeks ago

Wow, what a long debate. It took me a few hours to scroll to the bottom. I know that some will disagree with what I have to say but I will say it anyways. I feel that deer hunting with dogs is wrong, probably because I was brought up never doing being that it is illegal in my state. I have had countless days of sitting in the woods and not seeing a thing. That is what makes hunting so fun however. If I was able to see deer everyday that I went hunting, it would not be as special as waiting for only a few to come in. The art of deer hunting should be based on human knowledge and skill without the aid of a sidekick that has a very good nose. I know that many of you think that it is ok to use dogs and I respect your decision. I don't want to tell you that you can't or your stupid for doing so. I do however think that having a dog for tracking a wounded animal would be helpful and ethical however just to put the deer out of pain as soon as possible. Using dogs for waterfowl hunting is different I believe because the dogs are only used to retrieve the birds and not find them.

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from fortknox02 wrote 2 years 22 weeks ago

I dont wanna get anything stirred up again and i know im kinda late commenting but i started out hunting deer with dogs. It is legal in south Georgia but the older i got the more dangerous i found it to be. Ive seen some great hunting dogs get shot or run over by traffic because they got passed the people that was supposed to catch them.. Good dogs. Some dogs i raised from a puppy. Ive had a good friend of the family get hit by the few shotgun pellets that missed the deer. This does NOT happen all the time but it only takes once by an unexperienced person. I myself find it safer and more peaceful to sit in a tree and wait on a deer to walk out in its natural habitat not being slam full of adrenaline from runnning from a pack of dogs for an hour. Ive seen way bigger bucks get killed by a hunter sitting in a tree.

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from 257ack wrote 2 years 21 weeks ago

Lets be truthful,Deer doggin' is an abomination. As already mentioned its dangerous, unsportsmanlike, violates fair chase, interferes with others trying to hunt, and violates property rights; which they are completly unconcerned about. Their only concern is their fun and it dont matter who they run over doing it. They freely admit " my dog dont know property lines" so obvisouly, they completely disreguard property rights which to most of us are sacred. I cant count the number of times that I have came arround a curve on a dirt road and ran upon "bubba" with a shotgun in one hand and a Bud lite in the other. If we start bugging our politicians it will become outlawed!

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from rebelman6330 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

iv just bought my new black and tan puppy and t would kill me if they banded dog huntin in alabama befor i got to run her....i love runnin my dogs its very fun and is grate exersice for them. dont get me wrong i love scoot hunting and stand huntng but in my apenion none are as fun as running my dogs...they get just as exsited as i do when i load them into there dog box and tell them that its time to go hunting.....i really dont understand why so many people hate it when you run dogs.its just lke huntng the way they hunt other than they dont have dogs...my grandpa lved to run his dogs and got me lovng it to before he passed away and everytime i run mine its just lke hes there wth me...

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from 007 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

I said once before that I wouldn't waste my time with this thread anymore and I let myself be dragged back into it again so rest assured, this is absolutely the LAST time I will bandy words with fools. 257, I have to wonder, who made you judge and jury of what's sportsmanlike, safe, or fair chase? I suppose that with the next group that upsets you, you'll cheerfully throw them under the bus too until the only ones left are you and those who do exactly what you like to do, exactly as you like to do it, be they bird hunters who (horrors) use dogs or whatever else you deem unfit at that particular moment. Isn't this the same thing as gun control? "I see no reason to have a semi-auto anything so I'm calling my congressman to get it banned, but don't dare think of touching what I like or favor". You sanctimonious moron, can't you see that this is a people issue, not a practice issue? There are thousands of dog hunters in this country who are among the finest people around, just the same as there are that many who like whatever it is that you prefer and are just as wonderful people, yet you choose to lump them all into one group because a handful pissed you off. Do you consider all Muslims to be terrorists? That sounds like this other stuff you so effortlessly spout. I wish you luck in this perfect outdoors you're trying to create. Enjoy it because at the rate you're going, you'll be mostly alone. Think about it.

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from virge wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Well! I guess that Im a fool and a sanctimonious mooron too, because for the most part, I agree with 357. At least hes not a liar. Heres a quote from over a year ago by 007 "rest assured this is the very LAST time I will stir this pile" The way that I read 357's post, He was just agreing with the last several posters and offering a remedy. 007 you seem so unconcerned about property rights; Do you really think you have a right to run them across every one else's land? From reading all the post here your the one whos mostly alone. We do agree on one thing, I sure dont see it your way. (I see that many other posters dont see it your way either) You seem to think that we should just give in and let you run all over us. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Personally I think you should stir it more.

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from virge wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Rebelman, My friend in Alabama tells me that they have already banned deer dogs in 1/2 of the Alabama counties. And a special permit is needed in most of the other counties. If they have too many trespassing dog complaints then they pull the permit. The doggers have pissed the land owners and stalkers off so bad untill they united and got something done. Many of us here are working on that also. Its not so much that were against hunting or even doggin. Its just the trespassing dogs and other infringments. It only got to this point because they would not keep the dogs on their own land.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

I don't deer hunt with dogs, but I sure liked to coon hunt with my dawg and the pack when I was younger. I, too, don't need liberal do-gooders telling me what I can do and what I ought not to do because "they" don't like it. I don't like the cripple and leave bowhunters and the other slobs that shoot at anything that moves and can't find their butts with both hands much less a wounded deer crowd either, but you don't see me bashing them. Drinking while hunting? Not in my camp. It is also against the law in most jurisdictions to possess a firearm while intoxicated. That does not just apply to CCW holders either.

Virge, I agree with your self assessment in the first post above.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

The thing about dogs as that even the tamest of dogs can be hard to control. Tell me, what happens when your dog won't listen to commands and ends up going on a wild goose chase on private property after an animal? Better yet what happens if your dog gets a hold of the deer? I believe that by adding a dog to your arsenal, it greatly takes away the human skill needed to harvest deer. Even though many of you do not want to hear this, hunting deer should be 100% human skill without the aid of an excellent dog nose.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Turkey101

You said, "Even though many of you do not want to hear this, hunting deer should be 100% human skill without the aid of an excellent dog nose."

Who says? What higher authority gives you the ability to make up the rules as you see fit? Men have been using dogs to hunt deer, stag, boar, and hart before the New World was even settled. Traditions much older than the new age ethics that johnny-come-lately's like yourself (and those posting above) espouse. Your kind believe they are correct just because they think it. You got yourself some learnin' to do. Which you just might do assuming you live long enough.

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from ten0see43 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Turkeytalk, you are correct sir! Its not only unsportsmanly but violates fair chase. Thats why most states have banned it completely. There are a 2or3 states that still allow it in certain areas and 2or3 that allow it statewide. Even in those states its being highly restricted. ( the state is considered a higher authority) I hunted in PA. years ago and a hunter was expected to shoot dogs chasing deer. MN. has adopted that policy this year. A warden from WV. posted here that he was required to shoot dogs running deer. Also It is indeed a great injustice to those landowners above. I would hate to spend big bucks for land that I could not hunt because of trespassing deer dogs. Keep in mind that we are only talking deer dogs here. Myself I have no problem with rabbit or bird dogs.

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from rock rat wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

I've said on here before that I'm ok with dog hunting deer. While I had some time on the holidays I thought I'd expand on the idea, bear with me.

Where I live hunting anything other than mountain lions is extremely illegal with dogs. It's illegal to bait deer or bear, and I even look askance at prepared shooting positions. If you call any fish and game officer or deputy sheriff here and tell him you've seen a dog chasing deer they'll tell you to shoot the thing. But where I live isn't the south eastern United States.

Some things to consider.

Once a part of a culture dies out it's gone forever. People can try to revive it but it's never the same as the knowledge passed on from one generation to the next.

Sometimes people who know how to hunt with dogs, and dogs that know how to hunt, provide an invaluable service. Like when there is a cougar eating people. Don't laugh, it happens. Predators seldom prey on people but in those rare instances when they do, finding the thing and eliminating it quickly is important.

As far as fair chase... that's up to the traditions of the area and the individual. If dog hunting is similar to many other types of hunting there is probably a lot more involved than is apparent. Is it high fence? No. I'd think it a lot harder than a lot of guided hunts we have out here.

I understand many areas are too crowded for dog hunting without trespass. Maybe the state game departments can make dog hunting by permit only and in National Forest. There might well come a day when people will be glad that someone knows how to hunt with dogs.

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from br579 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

i wish they would bring to a vote in my state. i would vote it down. iam sick and tired of them. it wouldnt brother me so much ifn they would control their dogs and keep em where they belong. its not fair to the rest of us.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter, the thing about this website is that there is a significant amount of opinions. Why, because it is tough to include facts. I have tried to include facts in some of my recent posts before and they have been criticized because they were hard to believe but true. You never know if what people on this website say is credible or not. What I find interesting is that there have been 286 opinions on this topic and yet you zero in on me and criticize my opinion. Why? Because you like the idea of using dogs while I think that it is wrong. What would you call this? Opinions. There is no right or wrong answer. My opinion is that it should be based upon 100% human skill while you think that everyone else has done it before so that means it should be right. I respect your opinion as much as I wish for you to respect mine. There is no need to start fights over this or any other post however. I am beginning to become frustrated with your negative comments towards me saying that I should shut up and leave and I do not know the facts. I would much appreciate if you would stop. I am a hunter just like you. I am giving my opinion on this website just as hundreds others do. If my opinion is not what you want to hear, just block it out but please don't hate. There are two sides on this topic and neither of them is right or wrong. The purpose of posting however is to let your side be known so that you can educate other hunters and hope that they will learn from your beliefs. WA MtnHunter, I respect your opinions even if I disagree. However, I will never say that your opinion is wrong. I wish you safe and successful hunting in the future.

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from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Turkeytalk101,

Me thinks you doth protest too much!

"There are two sides on this topic and neither of them is right or wrong."

The direct quote above seems to be in disagreement with your stance on dogging deer as you vehemently disagree with a hunter’s right to dog deer.

I have never supported using hounds to run deer in open woodlands and never will as there is no need to.

If you lived in the flat woods of South Georgia and had to contend with thousands of acres of palmetto/gallberry thickets and 3-5 year old planted pines thick with the same your opinion would be different I'm sure, as would the opinion of others posting in the negative about dog hunting. Not only is it a tradition here but a necessity in many cases as the stuff is near impenetrable and spotting one near impossible, forget about blood trailing one. Dogging deer is a deep tradition in such areas in part due to necessity and should always be.

We are losing our hunting traditions in a rapid pace because of individuals that don't think beyond their own back yards when it comes to hunting. Hunting territory is different even in the same state. Here in GA I can hunt in the Blue Ridge Mountains, the rolling hills of the Piedmont, the Ag fields of the coastal plain and flat woods of the coastal section. All with different terrain features and native flora that require a different hunting approach and different tactics. By the way, dog hunting requires as much skill and patience as does any other form of hunting. Training hounds, deploying hounds, posting hunters, recovering dogs and recovering game all require an expertise that you and others don't seem to recognize.

Think about this. Someone might want to take part of your traditional hunting methodology away from you some day as a knee jerk reaction of disagreement with how you do things. What then? Benjamin Franklin said of the signing of the Declaration of Independence that "We must all hang together, for we will surely hang separately..."

It has been said that you cannot truly judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. All I ask is that you walk the mile before you post.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

TT101

I am not a proponent of deer hunting with dogs. However, I stand firm in preserving the tradition of hound hunting for various species where it works out. Just to say that it is not a valid or ethical method of hunting is just plain wrong just because you think it so. Your generation needs to understand tradition and ethics apart from your media and egocentric thoughts and opinions. If you want others making the rules for you, vote for Obama.

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Beekeeper and WAM Well said. I grew up hunting with hounds in Florida. We hunted bears, 'coons, bobcats,fox and most of all deer. Bee is right on about the skills and difficulties involved. Some of my best memories involve hounds. Here in Kansas we don't need them for deer. You can bet that if I go back to Marion County Fla to hunt with family it will be with dogs. A buck with hounds on his track is very alert and a tough animal to get a shot at. If you critiques think getting a nice buck with dogs is easy I challenge you to go South and see if you can get one. Hint: a nice buck is much easier to get in Kansas or Missouri without dogs.

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Beekeeper and WAM Well said. I grew up hunting with hounds in Florida. We hunted bears, 'coons, bobcats,fox and most of all deer. Bee is right on about the skills and difficulties involved. Some of my best memories involve hounds. Here in Kansas we don't need them for deer. You can bet that if I go back to Marion County Fla to hunt with family it will be with dogs. A buck with hounds on his track is very alert and a tough animal to get a shot at. If you critiques think getting a nice buck with dogs is easy I challenge you to go South and see if you can get one. Hint: a nice buck is much easier to get in Kansas or Missouri without dogs.

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

I would like to add that we hunted on public land. Local tradition was that when a hunter shoots a deer in front of another hunters dogs the dog owner gets half the carcass. Wish I had a dollar for every so called self righteous still hunter that shot a buck in front of our dogs and hauled azz to avoid sharing the meat.
You guys that don't like dogs don't forget to hold you fire when they chase a deer by your stand. BTW I won't hold my breath.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

You can criticized this thought if you want but this is what I personally believe. For the record, I am not saying this is what you should all believe or that this is correct. I think that when harvesting deer, you should put them down as soon as possible and they should never see it coming. Killing deer should be as humane as possible. I personally feel that by adding dogs into the equation, the deer sense the trouble coming. This is more of a mental issue for me. I don't want to see an animal in fear when I harvest them. I want them to leave having no emotional distress and with as little pain as possible. This is just my own opinion and beliefs. I respect your decisions if you feel otherwise.

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from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Turkeytalk101,
I'd like for you to look up the word anthropomorphic and read the definition. Come back later and read it again. Maybe you'll understand life and wildlife a little better after that.
So as I understand it you believe that killing a rabbit in front of beagles is wrong and stressful on the rabbit. Shooting a squirrel that has been treed by a squirrel dog is stressful on the squirrel and wrongful for the hunter. Shooting quail, grouse or pheasant that have been brought to point by a dog is stressful on the bird and wrong. Shooting a coon out of a tree above coon hounds is wrong and stressful for the coon...
I could go on but it is apparent that in your young life you have not been exposed to enough stress beyond getting turned down for a date. No matter the species stress is part of life and stress itself kills. Tell your beliefs to the man who dies of a heart attack because of the stress from being laid off from his job and having no way to feed his family. Tell that to the wild turkey that runs from the very slightest of movements. Tell that to the deer that has been chased by coyotes until it can't run anymore and they begin to tear its flesh from its bones before it is dead. Tell that to the archaic human that shivered in the dark when a saber tooth cat entered the cave he was using for the night. Share your beliefs with any animal making its own living in the wild in the dead of winter when there is no food available and predators are abundant.
Current generations have been raised away from the natural world for way too long. Young folks like you and probably your parents have been able to by cuts of meat wrapped on sanitary Styrofoam at the grocery store with a clean conscious. You had no part in raising an animal, you did not look into its eyes at slaughter, and you had no part of processing it into that steak you ate last weekend. You have not worried over a crop that receives no rain. You don't understand that fresh peaches from Chile aren't normal for Late November in our northern hemisphere.
No hunter or farmer wants an animal to suffer before the death that gives us life. Yet no animal lives a stress free life, including humans. Stress is a part of the world wild or domestic. Sensitivity is one matter, anthropomorphic behavior is another.
One of the most productive relationships in human history was formed when the first canine became partners with man. That relationship has put protein on the menu for both species for tens of thousands of years and given comfort to both for the same. Now you wish to turn your back on one of the foundations of human existence. My how short our perspectives have become. I for one will stick with the canines that have been at our dance for thousands of years while you wander the wistful land of new age thought.

I leave you with a quote to think over:

"We shall escape the absurdity of growing a whole chicken in order to eat the breast or wing, by growing these parts separately under a suitable medium."

-Winston Churchill

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Bee, Me thinks you must have been a great writer in another life. Maybe we should call you "Papa" or "Steinbeck". I'm waiting patiently for the first book. Gotta go get a grand daughter "fix".

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

TT101 You could make a huge leap in character if you would swallow pride and admit to yourself (forget about us) that you (and most liberals in general)are wrong.

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from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Thanks Del, but more like jack of all trades and master of none!

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from vtbluegrass wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

First off claiming MORE trophy deer are killed or that you are MORE likely to kill a trophy deer in-front of dogs is a flawed statement in ways that I could fill a book with reasons. The biggest deer in the country are clearly coming from areas that do not allow dog hunting such as the upper mid-west and Texas. In areas where deer are not run all day with dogs they have less nocturnal tendencies. For example prior to moving to eastern NC where dog hunting is allowed and prevalent almost all my deer had been killed between 10am and 4pm. Since moving to a dog area almost all my deer come in the first and last 30 minutes of the day. And you say you have sat in a stand all day without seeing a deer? Oh my! the horror! Its called hunting not killing for a reason. I would say every single hunter on the planet no matter the species has experienced this so get over it.
Lets say I am stand hunting and your dogs blow through my property; once they have passed I feel my day is crap from then on. I hunt deer by scouting natural movements of deer and dogs screw that all the hell up. Yes someone else's dogs can push deer by me but they can just as easily push them away. Also I hunting in fairly thick timber most of the year and much of the season with bow, a deer being chased through these areas provide little chance at an ethical shot and almost no bow opportunity what so ever. There is no real survey to turn to but I would bet during deer season no less than 50%(probably more like 75%) of the dogs boxes I see in trucks have a swivel seat mounted on top of them. Its not at all uncommon to see this rig parked along the side of the road with a dog hunter sitting atop the box with rifle. While this may just be the idiot that get seen it is horrible public image and just freaking lazy. If you park you truck stand in a field its still lazy.
The middle ground is this if you hunt dogs get enough property to run them. There are too many a**holes out there running 10 dogs on 200 acres knowing full well the dogs are going to blow through to neighboring properties in minutes.

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from usmcturkey wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

I do not have much of a problem with dogs because like you said do not knock it until you have tried it. Being from the north I have not experienced it. The only problem I have with dogs is when the owners keep running the same area. The deer are constantly on the run burning much needed food they are finding. Another note was mentioned above the deer will become nocturnal or just leave the area. I do not know how I feel about dogs but I was brought up with out hunting them so I think I will always be partial to that.

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from KingFisher907 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

you can dress it up anyway you want to make yourself feel better...
the fact is that hunting deer with dogs is not very sporting...cant run 'em down yourself? so you use dogs? no wonder the antis hate us so much...

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from KingFisher907 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

the more I think about it, we need to stick together as hunters...just because we may not agree on methods, thats no reason to condemn each other...my apology and good hunting!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Years ago, I believed hunting deer with dogs was great and everyone respected each other. Years have gone by and today the way dog owners trespassing themselves along with running their dogs across private property in total disregard to the owner and to run them anywhere anytime as they see fit even during closed season especially during archery to see it as a God given right. Not to count all the encounters of traveling down a forest road turning a corner and finding myself looking down a gun barrel with a red eyed drunken shooter standing on top of his in bed tool box with a case of Bud iced down and several empty cans tossed out in the ditch has totally changed the way I look at the use of Deer Hunting with dogs today.

Bottom line

Finding myself looking down numerous of times of a gun barrel and running dogs during archery season?

Go figure!

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I do not agree with using dogs for deer hunting. This is for the dogs' sake, not yours.

There's enough I've seen/heard/read, here and elsewhere, about the general stupidity of hunters not smart enough to come here and learn.

To many bozos, your nice, trusting dog is going to look like either a deer or a coyote to some fool.

For duck hunting, in it's season, I've not heard of too many dogs mistaken for ducks. Watch out for my cousin, though.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

This is a good example of a virus that seems to be spreading thru the hunting community that could one day prove fatal, the "If I don't do it or approve of it, I'm not going to support it, regardless of how legal or ethical it is" flu. While you could not run fast enough to give me a cross bow, inline muzzle loader, or a .270 Winchester, and I've never hunted deer with dogs but would like to try it (I have bear hounds), if you're using them in a legal and ethical manner, then I as a fellow hunter should stand behind you. Just because I don't choose to do it that way doesn't always make it wrong. Having said that, yes, there are a lot of morons out there giving the rest of us a bad name ; road hunters, spot lighters, the greedy ones who always have to take way over the legal limit of whatever fish or game is at hand, trespassers, fence cutters, the list is endless, but not limited to those of us who thrill to the sounds of the chase. The PETAs of the world love to see us at each other's throats like this.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Ontario Honker, I respect your opinion but politely suggest that you should not criticize another's passion until you try it. I don't hound hunt for deer but thrill to the sound of a good bear chase, and spending a week with our deer gang (which goes back to the early 50's and is as much reunion as anything) making deer drives means the world and all to me. Walk a mile in my Wolverines before you look down on me.

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from deerhunter125 wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

I can see how some people wouldn't like it but it isn't much different than when people do drives and by all means I am not putting that down because that is the way I hunt. But I personally would like to deer hunt with dogs sometime in my life.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

It has been both my understanding and experience running deer will drive them into harder to reach remote areas and then only to move after dark.

Deer will pattern hunters as they do my favorite place on Jacks place.

Far as hearing the dogs come, after the second day the deer are moved out and the dogs are running aimlessly barking to hear the heads rattle!

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from casster wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I grew up in Louisiana and hunting has always been in the family and still is. I love to hunt rabbit and squirrel with a dog, but when it comes to deer thats another story. My first experience as a boy was when a young doe staggered out into the road in front of Dads truck, he stopped, she was lathered and foaming at the mouth with the dogs behind her. She stumbled off into the woods to weary she could hardly walk past us standing within feet of her. Dad caught the dog and let her escape. He said it should be outlawed then, that was in the fifties and we didn't have many deer to begin with.
It was open range then now it is private or leased and people still hunt with dogs, turn them loose close to your property, run them out, shoot from trucks and roads. Argue over the meat, which would be second rate table fare to begin with. We raised cattle and we didn't run a beef yearling around in a pasture for a while before slaughtering it. Venison ran with dogs would be tougher and gamier from the chase, not to mention shot to hell and back. I love hunting and don't want it to go away but if hunters or their dogs are caught where they shouldn't be, I think the fine should be so high the game wardens, would be willing to take to the woods to catch them

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Here in WV dogs have never been allowed to chase deer. In fact in our hunting regulations and laws it gives the Conservation Officer the authority to kill the dogs if he cannot catch them. Different terrain requires different hunting methods. I have never hunted with dogs but before the race car driver Davey Allison got killed I used to go to Alabama to hunt with him. They used to hunt with dogs but almost everyone in Alabama have started still hunting. I can see that in the swamps of the southern states dogs may be a good tool to hunt with. Davey used to come to WV to hunt with me and he said he liked it here where dogs were not allowed. I hate to say but I have in my profession had to dispose of some dogs running deer. I have seen deer that have been caught by dogs and they are trying to crawl away with half of a ham eaten off. It is not a pretty sight. Here we do not have hunting dogs running deer but wild dogs people have turned out. I have even had these packs of dogs to try to attack me. I am a retired Conservation Officer and have seen a lot of different things and usually it is not the dogs fault but the unethical hunters. These days when hunting is under attack we as hunters have to stand together reguardless of our different hunting opinions. If we divide ourselves we will be easier to conquer. Thge anti-hunters rejoice when they see hunters fighting amoung themselves.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

I grew up in Ark. and dogs were/are allowed. I've hunted in several states scince then and on some of those "quite" opening mornings I still "long to hear the song". Maybe it's just us that grew up listening to/for that melody from deep in the woods that really gets the ol' ticker pumpin'.
Like outdoorchic said "don't knock it till ya' try it.

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from laplant wrote 4 years 47 weeks ago

i have never deer hunted with dogs but im an avid coonhunter. i think that it would be very fun. its illegal here where i live in vermont. from the stories i have read it sounds very exciting. i think that they should keep it cause it could help still hunters in the long run by getting deer moving.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Thanks laplant! Yes hunting deer with dogs is very exciting. I went yesterday to get their rabies vaccinations. They thought they were loading up to go hunting!!! Its a shame its illegal there because if you enjoy coonhunting its just as exciting. Last year I got more out of dog drives than still hunting. Its a socialable sport where we all come together and have good clean fun and we come up with meat everytime. It used to be people had to dog hunt because it was necessary to get meat to eat. It might get to be that way in the future. Its in our blood down here in the south. Those that have not done it, need to try it once with a club like ours. We have two meals a day, we have radios to communicate to others where we are and which way the deer are going. We (dog handlers) put a lot of work in to get the deer. But when you hear a pack of my black and tans and walkers mix with my buddies beagles running two of the biggest bucks ever seen in this part of the country it is worth every second of it. The best part I like about dog hunting is you get to see things you don't get to see everyday. Deer and Dogs are very intelligent animals. I have seen deer circle up and down a creek to loose the dogs jump the creek and the dogs pick up the trail and keep going. I guess thats the reason I have such good dogs, they are black and tan coon hounds. If they can track a coon they would almost certainly have to track a deer!!!Its in their blood too.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Thanks! That is more of what I was hoping to hear. We all love to hunt the way we seem to enjoy it best. My question to you, KingFisher907 is "Have you ever been on a dog drive?" I really wish you could come to our club and try it one time. There are a lot of dead set still hunters on our club that really enjoy dog drives just for the excitement and the fellowship with other hunters. I do realize that not all dog hunting clubs have the same ethics as we do, which give clubs like ours, a bad name. As you could also say some still hunters who do disrespectful things give you all a bad name. All I ask is where do we stop arguing among ourselves and stand together and stand up for our rights. And I wish you all the luck in your future hunting as well. I can't wait til this season. We shall compare deer!!!!!

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

I am a hound man myself and like a good chase. I can't see what the big deal is here. In my neck of the woods you can't run deer with dogs. I'm sure that in some parts of the country this is a traditional method of deer hunting and is accepted. I've said this before and I'll say it again, as hunters we have to keep working together. The anti's don't need any ammo to use against us. 007- once more you've said it well. Maybe with the exception of the 270 dinger!

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from ten-o-see wrote 4 years 5 days ago

Nothing ruins my hunting like a deer dog comong through my area. Nothing brings more misery to a farmer or landowner than a bunch of renagades running dogs across his land. In order to make a living, I moved from a civilized state that outlawed that uncivilized sport years ago. Now I dont even bother to try to hunt here anymore.

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from _tuff wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

Living in the mountains of PA we are not aloud to use dog hunting and i am greatful i don't have to worry about it. Call me and my family old fashioned or claim its cruelity to animals but around here a dog who runs deer is shot.It amazes me that its a sport. I mean hey, what ever floats your boat i suppose.But when you get down to it, its just people who have more money than passion to pour into dogs to run down the game instead of enjoying being out and getting the full hunting experience. As a teenager when i take to the woods its just me, my hot seat, 270 on my back shells and knife in my pocket along with the drag rope. The idea of dogs running deer in my eyes is not along the lines in fair chase and its a good thing to me that we don't have that situation around here. But then again, i've never done it, and in some areas maybe its the best way to hunt. But of my knowledge now, and the way i was raised i don't agree with it.

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from virge wrote 3 years 42 weeks ago

A QUESTION FOR YOU DEER DOGGERS *** By your own admissions, you cant controll where your dogs go, SO, what gives you the right to allow those dogs to trespass on someone else's land??? You dont seem to mind infringing on someone else's rights but you dont want (what you call) your rights infringed on. I will respect your "rights" if you respect mine. If you have a right to allow your dogs to trespass then the land owner, certainly, has a right to protect his investment by what ever means he can. RIGHT? If you dont want your dogs trapped, then keep them on your own property. I dont mind you running dogs on your land *** BUT *** I'm not gonna put up with dogs running on my land. It ruins my hunting just so you can have your fun. Once again, What gives you the fight to allow dogs your dogs to invade some one else's land and infringe on their rights???

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

I will only "UNIFY" with the doggers when they start controlling their dogs and keep them off my land. They "SAY" they dont want their dogs to trespass. Well, we can find some common ground, as you say, when they Keep their dogs off us. The common ground the doggers want is to let them puppies run on every one's land. After all if there is woods there then its their God-given right to run their dogs across it. Sure we will respect their "rights" when they start respecting ours. I'snt property rights as important as running dogs?

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Thanks for the comments. I can see your line of thought on dogs running through properties, but fortunately the club I hunt with is over 6000 acres and growing. The problem I don't understand is sometimes through just inexperienced hunters and young teenagers we sometimes let the deer get out of the hunt. We respect other clubs rights and private properties, we have tracking collars on the dogs so no big deal they will eventually come back to us. There are still-hunters that would just as soon shoot a dog to get rid of the problem they think they have. No our club isn't 200 acres, with a bunch of people sitting on dog boxes. As a primarily dog hunting club, we work hard to drive deer out of those swamps and creeks where the bucks lay up. Our Dog drivers, me included, we walk the woods, interior part of the hunt and do what some aren't willing to do, "Busting Briars". All of our standers are on the perimeter of about 1000 to 2000 acre section of club hunting with shotguns (rifles aren't allowed on dog drives for safety issues). I have been a stander, and let me tell you something, you have to still hunt even on a dog drive. I can not tell you how many times deer have come by me and not a dog any where around. All of our dog men have told numerous stories how they walked right up on deer. The deer is not going to move unless you move him. If dogs run through your stand, the deer has already been through there. And if the deer went that way out its going to come back that way. I can't tell you how many times the dog drive has ended and I chose to stay on my stand or move to the spot that the deer went through and I saw the deer come back!!!! I like to still-hunt but I love to dog hunt too. I can not imagine hunting deer without my dogs. The dogs get more pleasure than I do, and that's saying something! I just think still-hunters that have a problem with dog hunting, should think about what it will do to us if we aren't allowed to hunt the way we like to hunt. How would the still-hunter feel if their land were taken from them because dog people grumbled all the time. This is a real problem. I have 16 dogs all black and tan coon hounds. All of them eat good and go to the vet. I am not the only hunter that has dogs that would be affected. This thing with dog hunting can and will hurt the economy, it will hurt the animals, and it will hurt most of the dog hunter. I get meat everytime I go on a dog drive. I don't get meat everytime I still-hunt. And for the dogs, some of the dogs I have right now I have acquired because they have put out in the sandhills because of this new no-dog-running change, I feel sure. I am not against still-hunting, I like it, but I think a person ought to have the right to hunt game the way they like to, as long as it doesn't break any rules in the regulation books. IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ON A DOG DRIVE, DON'T KNOCK IT UNTIL YOU TRIED IT.

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from CountryboyKrc wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

I'm 14 years old from Nc and i love dog hunting. If they banned it i would most likely quit hunting its very exciting and it lowers the number of wouded deer that arent ever found. its a passion and its the only hunting i ever want to do just because some people dont like it theres a lot more that do enjoy it including me

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Sorry about that Clay Cooper. I am sorry you have had that experience. The club I hunt with is very strict about those kind of things. If you do it, you get kicked out and your money is nonrefundable. About the trespassing, well again we have thousands of acres of timber company land leased in the country where mostly nobody lives and we respect peoples properties when it comes to our dogs trespassing. We stay put. As for the alcohol if it is found on the club you are kicked out again. We are firm believers in safety first and believe that dog hunters and still hunters alike have the right to drink or what ever else but not on a club where everyone has access to loaded weapons. It just isn't safe. As for the bad experiences, I have had my share from still hunters. I was stopped by a very wealthy drunk landowner who has property connecting to where I still hunt. He not only told me in not so many words he didn't want me there, he later came back stole my corn and sabotaged my buck scrapes. He rode around shooting in the air, rode through my stand with his Gator. Just because I killed a big buck out of my stand. (I used my brains and sat my stand in a spot where the deer cross the field and come out to feed) On the club I hunt at, we have found where still hunters killed a mother and baby cut out the back strap and threw away every thing else. Wasting the meat. Down below my house my uncle has dogs at his house, who happen to be hound mixes. They used to jump deer right there at his house, just in their nature to do it, and run through all the gravel pits. Well the still hunters club that just behind his property, lets just say they put a stop to my uncles dogs period. I don't believe in killing small deer, or dogs for the sake of deer meat. Lets face it, deer meat is good but we aren't starving to death we are all out there doing it for the sport. You have bad apples in everything you go at. Don't give all dog hunters a bad name because you have had bad experiences with the ones around your house. I am a proud still hunter and dog hunter. But I just favor the dog hunting more I guess because I love my dogs and I love to mingle with good decent people who love to dog hunt as much as I do. And lets face it if you are spending around 40 to 50 dollars a week in dog food for your dogs like I am, you want them to run and bring home the meat!!!!!

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I don't know where you guys hunt but here in the country of SC hunting is nothing like what you describe. We have no problem with the deer moving to more "remote" areas. For the past five years we have averaged about 100 deer killed on our club which leases land in both SC and NC. We have over 6000 acres in which we hunt. Fortunately for us, Our dogs do not look like a coyote or deer because we have tracking collars and bells on them and another what kind of stupid hunter is going to pull a gun on a target without identifying it to begin with. As for the deer moving, the deer may leave one block of land onto another but it hardly ever leaves our leased land. And when they do, my friends the deer go right back to where they came from. Because we have pulled our dogs off the track of the deer going back into the hunt. Tell me one thing, how is hunting deer with a dogs unethical? What is so ethical and respectful about you hiding in a ground blind or up in a deer stand watching a corn pile and that poor deer unaware of you walk to get something to eat and gets shot 100 to 200 yards in front of you. Where is the sport in that? Anybody can go out there find a deer track and bait it and kill a deer. Not just anyone can go out there and jump a deer and in turn kill it. All your skills are tested on a dog hunt. You got to know where the deer run, what kind of trick the deer is going to play on your dogs, your shooting skills are tested. How well can you shoot at a moving target? Not everyone is cut out to dog drive, because lets face the truth they are just too scared of the work that goes into it. (Really all the work is done by the dog handlers) Another thing I want to add to this interesting topic. We hunt about 4 to 500 acres with maybe 2 to 3 packs of dogs. We have about 17 to 20 standers. These standers are standing on the ground with their shotgun, they are put out surrounding the block of land. Each stander is still hunting. Because from my experience and not just hear say, the deer are sometimes so far ahead of the dogs they have time to come to the stander turn go along parallel to them until they find a spot not covered or until the dogs push them on out. That deer has a chance to get away just like the stander has a chance to kill it if he stays his butt still. I have shot at deer that come out on me, because I wasn't marching like a soldier on duty!!

For the dogs, I will say this. My dogs are not stupid. My dogs are out there because they know if they do their job they will reap the benefits. No part of our deer is wasted. Yes, we feed our dogs the entrails and I might add they love to clean their teeth on a nice buck leg! My dogs do not run no road barking their head off. This hunting season I will take pictures and send it to you guys, my dogs go to those remote areas you talk about and bring the deer out to us. He is scratched all up doing what he loves to do. No this is not shameful because when he is home and running loose he don't have to hunt, but its nothing to hear him open up and run a deer all over this place. They love it just like you do. The only difference is they are willing to go get the deer in places you wouldn't put a foot.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

GO Outdoorchick GO !

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Outdoorchic

As to know there are extremes to everything, from running deer with dogs to baiting just to name two. Sound management is can be not just by laws alone, but by us sportsmen! The real problem I’ve had with hunters with dogs and deer feeders is they hunt the same tract straight each and every day, shooting at anything that moves, using their rifle scopes as spotting scopes and totally annihilating the population.

Bottom line

I’m impressed with your Club and hope many good time to come!

+1 for you!

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from jbwill9 wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

I agree with the health benefits of venison and the taste. I guess if your just hunting for meat I could see using dogs. I am more against trophy hunting with dogs because these bruts got to be as big as they are by being able to hide well and dogs are just too good at sniffing out their beds and stuff.

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from steve182 wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

I have never hunted deer with dogs, nor do i want to, but i don't want to tell someone else their hunting traditions are no good and must come to an end any more than i want someone to tell me what i can/cannot do. Again, i can't knock what i haven't tried.

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from huntcamp wrote 4 years 41 weeks ago

I havenever hunted deer with dogs and never will. It is illegal here in WI. Doesn't mean it is wrong. If it is legal by all means go for it. To those saying that dogs run everywhere and ruin it for everybody, some do, but you know waht there are plenty of idiots that do not hunt with dogs that are far worse. Deer will come back. I do believe however that taken deer without the aid of dogs is much harder than with. When they are chased they do not see or smell their surroundings as well. We drive with people walking the woods, pretty effective also. i have hunted pigs with dogs. Did not find it all that challenging. Yes shots at running deer are exremely difficult. Something that I have practiced extensively. Set up a long cable and put a sliding piece of plywood with a deer drawn on it. Shot at it while it was bobbing up and down as it went through at 100 yards. Like I said before just because i do not do it and necassarily agree with it, doesn't mean it is wrong. As long as it is legal fire away.

Outdoorchic, Stick to your guns, do not let these bullies push you from what you believe.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

My Great Granfather,Grandfather and my father had a lease granted to them during the world wars to some Islands in the Mississippi river consisting of thousands of acres,in trade that they would sell thier stock to the U.S.Government for the soldiers fighting abroad.They raised cattle and hogs and without dogs it wouldn't happened,Between logging floating timber and commerical fishing it was a hand to mouth living for them.A deer meant the difference in eating and not and usually it was on Island were they didn't bother anybody.How long will it be before people consider a Pointer as an unfair advantage.Or a beagle for chasing a bunny.I have watched deer that were being chased by dogs and seen the bucks slip to the side and sneak and the wise old does circle on thier track and stand and watch the dogs go by.It is a dieing culture,As our hunting world is gobbled up in five to ten acre tracks hunting as we know it will vanish.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

O/H, We probably treed 25-30 bear last year and only took seven, as our passion lies mostly in the chase, ergo our dogs, choosing to pull the trigger only when the conditons are perfect or otherwise dictated. Neither do we always tree every bear we start on, just like the "outlaw" says above regarding deer with dogs. Thanks for your clarificaiton too. I've never done it your way either. Regards........

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Ontario Honker is on the mark with his statement:"Exclusive hunting clubs, running deer with dogs, worrying about chasing deer on whoever's property ... I'd hang up my guns if it ever came to that around here." Private hunt clubs are a threat to hunting and the health of the deer herd in Michigan and many states. If any of you prefer private clubs, then hunt at your local country club and stop fencing the public out and the deer in.

But, back to the topic... a month ago I wrote about my concerns with the ethics of deer hunting with hounds. I'd like to hear more discussion of the ethics. Restating my main points: I have always believed that you don't take a shot unless you are sure of the kill. An ethical kill is a clean and quick kill. Running shots are by their nature a throw of the dice. Some hunters are more skilled than others. But, the chance of wounding the deer is high when you are taking a running shot. I am sure that with dogs you can still usually collect that wounded deer. Being dependent on dogs to track your wounded deer speaks either to poor skill or a questionable method.

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from WhitetailHunter706 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

i still hunt deer and am also a coon hunter, but i do not like deer hunting with dogs. If you dont have the skills to find where the deer are and where they are going you shouldnt hunt deer. If you cant find a deer that you hav shot without a dog then you shouldnt be hunting deer, if you cant shoot the deer and make a good clean shot(and i dont mean everytime, we are human we make mistakes and we occasionally miss or make bad shots on deer, but not on purpose.)then you shouldnt be deer hunting.
and this is especially directed to outdoorschic if you go deer hunting with dogs and it takes 44 people to go and run dogs and shoot deer and you consider these people your friends. But then you go still hunting and look you made a shot on a deer that wasnt run with a dog, even though you couldnt hit it cause it was standing still and had to hav your dog find it and then your "friends werent there to share the moment with you then man what friends. You ever heard of still or stand hunting with a buddy or a group of friends, you ever heard of calling some of your buddies to have them come help you drag it out ,after you hav foundit, and brag to them cause you got one before them, and then having a good time when you get back to the house and you and your buddies standing around your truck talkin bout hunting. Maybe they arent your friends at the club because all of you only care about one thing killing. all any of you are worried about is killing something and then showing it off to everyone wiping ther nose in it and then leaving till thenext time you all feel like killing again.
sorry i got off on sumthing that long but if you have to hunt deer with dogs maybe you should go to the target range, go to a buddies house and hav them show you how to track a deer that youve shot thats my oppinion but im sure ninety percent of hunters and i mean true hunters not what you consider "hunters" will agree with me.
and another thing all of you dog using deer hunters say well i had a bad experience the time i went still hunting, well maybe the same here when any of us tried using dogs, o wait we realized that using dogs wasnt rite.
And another thing most still hunters dont use baits, especially pilling corn up for the deer.
Hunt ethically and im from the north indiana to be exact we already realized that it was wrong and now its against the law.

to all you real hunters Good luck and good hunting

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Reply to 007 **** Then make it a law that they cant allow their dogs off their land AND ENFORCE IT WELL. Us landowners have rights to0. It completely ruins our hunting. The dogs also runs our livestock and kills our chickens. Often those hunters trespass to retieve their dogs. What about PROPERTY RIGHTS ? Fla. has a system where the dogs, the dog hunters, and the land that they are allowed to hunt are registered. If the dog gets off the land its trespassing, Stiff fine. 3 rd time suspended license. Not as good as a complete ban but it makes the doggers behave and lets them keep their sport. Guess what? Those dogs have learned to read posted signs and have learned the property boundries. The situation is critical and something must be done.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

How do the deer dogs in Fla. recognize boundries? My contact in Fla tells me that the doggers use gps tracking collars and shock collars. Yes, this is a inconvience but not near as inconvient as it was for the land owners before the law. This law pertains only deer dogs. No other sporting dog is included or even complained about. Yes it is well enforced in Fla. No, I'm not knocking our wardens but it seems as some of their hearts is not into enforcing the doggers. Deer dogs have been baned in other states and large portions of some states and all other types of hunting with sporting dogs is flourshing so I dont think that you should worry about that problem. At one time after suffering so much abuse threats and intimadation I almost did not care about that anyway but the truth is that I do care and since it has not happened in Texas, Arkansas and many other areas, I dont think it will happen here. I really appreciate your post, You seem concerned about the rights of others. Myself and many, many others have tried to rason with the Doggers but they wont even consider the rights of others. Their attitude is " if there is woods there its my God given right to run my dogs there". I came upon one turning out close to my property line and he said "I cant help which way my dogs go". Isnt property rights worth something? It was a long haul for a poor man like me to finally own some.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Just like you there are many of us who have nothing but hate for for those who are taking something away from us. OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS!!! We do not have the use of our property when deer dogs are trespassing. We are being robbed! We have tried the law that you speak of it tells us there is no law against trespassing dogs even if its seven days a week. There is no law against doggers turning out a few feet from your property line. The law don't care if it negates the use of your property. There are hoever civil remedies. There are many of us who would like (if it dont get better) to see hunting banned altogether if something is not soon done because then your hunting would be ruined as ours is.I dont share that same feeling (yet) I really hope that it doesn't come to that but the doggers will not control their dogs and something has to be done. I would prefer a law that makes the hunter responsible for his trespassing dogs and maybe we could both be in peace. Yes, I fixed my problem by suing the timber co but I am still spokesman for the group and they should have a right to keep deer dogs off their land

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 22 weeks ago

Wow, what a long debate. It took me a few hours to scroll to the bottom. I know that some will disagree with what I have to say but I will say it anyways. I feel that deer hunting with dogs is wrong, probably because I was brought up never doing being that it is illegal in my state. I have had countless days of sitting in the woods and not seeing a thing. That is what makes hunting so fun however. If I was able to see deer everyday that I went hunting, it would not be as special as waiting for only a few to come in. The art of deer hunting should be based on human knowledge and skill without the aid of a sidekick that has a very good nose. I know that many of you think that it is ok to use dogs and I respect your decision. I don't want to tell you that you can't or your stupid for doing so. I do however think that having a dog for tracking a wounded animal would be helpful and ethical however just to put the deer out of pain as soon as possible. Using dogs for waterfowl hunting is different I believe because the dogs are only used to retrieve the birds and not find them.

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from virge wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Rebelman, My friend in Alabama tells me that they have already banned deer dogs in 1/2 of the Alabama counties. And a special permit is needed in most of the other counties. If they have too many trespassing dog complaints then they pull the permit. The doggers have pissed the land owners and stalkers off so bad untill they united and got something done. Many of us here are working on that also. Its not so much that were against hunting or even doggin. Its just the trespassing dogs and other infringments. It only got to this point because they would not keep the dogs on their own land.

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from br579 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

i wish they would bring to a vote in my state. i would vote it down. iam sick and tired of them. it wouldnt brother me so much ifn they would control their dogs and keep em where they belong. its not fair to the rest of us.

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from tawster wrote 2 years 14 weeks ago

I found this article for all the reasons many folks hate the practice of hunting with dogs: Last week, I was still-hunting private property when 10 dogs came running through. 3 days in a row. Morning... and afternoon. Hunt ruined.

On day 2 of this crap, one of the dog owners came by looking for one of his lost dogs. I told him he is lucky it isn't dead. He shrugged that off (gee, I bet he treats those dogs well).

Look, I understand tradition. But let's not have any illusions: Hunting with dogs is not really hunting. It just isn't. It's "harvesting". Shooting something from 400 yards away isn't hunting either (before y'all start criticizing). You don't have to understand deer to hunt with dogs. There is no woodsmanship. Fair chase? Please.

But brute-force nature of hunting with dogs is not even my biggest gripe. My biggest criticism is the lack of respect of local property owners by many of these "hunters". Yes, I could say _some_ but it is really very accurate to say _many_. I complained about all this to a hunt club member waiting for his dogs and he says to me "well, I can't control where they go, y'know?" And I said "if you can't control them, then you can't have them out there. You are trespassing."

Unwelcome dogs trucking through my hunting grounds chasing deer all over the place ruins it for everyone except those who own the dogs. The deer are scattered, their patterns and behaviors are changed. Often they just go nocturnal. It's just disrespectful. If they have a bazillion acres to run them, great. Most of them don't though.

Gee. I wonder why hunting with dogs is banned in so many counties here in NC? The worst enemy of this tradition are the "hunters" themselves.

Next time I see dogs running on that property... They will be shot. I hate to kill the dogs when the owner is at fault, but what recourse do I have? The only positive aspect of shooting the dogs is that putting down dog #22 would probably be a blessing for that animal.

Ok, "hunters", I have an idea: Get out there; Learn the land; Learn the sign; Take off the training wheels and learn to hunt.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 48 weeks ago

Thanks CountryboyKrc!!! Some still hunters do not really understand the importance of dogs. I went still hunting last year just to try it out, because I hadn't never tried it before. I was stopped by a man that was hunting on the other end of the bottleneck I was hunting. We had some words, in short he didn't like the idea of me being there. Well, this in itself made still hunting a bad experience for me. I had permission and the guy was just mad because I was there. So I told him to call my uncle if he had a problem with me being there. I went on to the stand and began waiting. The day before I let a nice buck walk because I felt I couldn't get a kill shot with my shot gun. So I waited for the buck to return. This day, my buck came within 20 yards of my stand. He never knew I was there. To all you dedicated still hunters who spend all that money on scent cover you are wasting your money!!! Good ole cedar limbs that I carried into the field from my house done the trick!!! (I had chips in my clothes also.) Needless to say, I felt this might be my only chance since the guy was irritated with me for just being there. I took my shot the buck jumped I shot again and he went down. I stayed in the stand for a good five minutes because I wanted the deer to bleed out and the last thing I wanted was a mad buck running me down!!! The light was gone. I called my uncle and told him what happened. The only thing the deer had slipped through the bean field while I waited and was not where he fell! I told my uncle to bring my black and tan hunting dog, within 30 minutes we had found the deer and drug it to the truck. This deer left no blood trail. I shot him in the neck and chest. So tell me what would have happened to my nice 145 lb. 8 pt. if I had not had deer dogs? I will tell you, my deer would have become coyote or buzzard food. On dog drives, we are a family. Everybody gets along, and we all sit around and talk about what the dogs did or what trick the deer tried to pull on the dogs. But the best thing is we all have fun. We all get meat every time we go hunting. I have not killed my first deer at the club I hunt with yet. But even though I am female, I can't wait to be iniated into a group of people that I have come to love and respect as true sportsmen. I sat in my deer stand my uncle built for me about 2 hours, quiet, alone, and even though I killed my first deer (a buck at that) I was wishing all the time I had someone there to share it with. I climbed down from the stand and took my deer to the processor. There were no guys around to pat me on my shoulder, there was no story to tell how I got my deer. The only story I had was a disgruntled still hunter trying to stop me and my dog finding my deer. My buck walked into that field looking for the corn I put out, and the doe he thought he heard calling. There is no sport in still hunting. That deer has not a chance in getting away when he comes in range of your gun. A hunter a true hunter who wants to be challenged, will get out there on a dog drive and test his ability to kill a deer fairly. Shoot at a moving target and then see if you are as good a marksman as you brag to be!!!! Or listen to the dogs running, do you have what it takes to know that deer is about 5 sometimes 10 minutes ahead of the dogs and while you are sitting there on a dog drive basically still hunting on the ground that deer the dogs is running way on the other side of the property may have done slipped right by you and you never even saw it. Dog driving is in my blood. I am pleased to hear other young people have the same passion as me.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

BRAVO!!! I think you guys have finally found the middle ground I was so hoping to find. Thanks for being so understanding and respectful of how I choose to hunt. I hunt both ways, still hunting and dog hunting, and I would to love to branch out into other game. But along the way, I want to learn to hunt respectfully and honor the game laws and respect nonhunters rights and opinions. Me, myself, I want to show all hunters that dog hunting if done right and with the rights of others kept in mind is very thrilling and productive. If it isn't for you, then respect those that do find it enjoyable. I love hunting, it runs through my blood, and I hope the day never comes when I have to put my gun up and be told that I can't ever hunt again. Thanks you guys for all your opinions. I respect each of you as a fellow hunter, I hope that I have shown a little light on a subject that increasingly getting worse.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Oh, by the way, did you know that veterinarians now are promoting a dog food that is primarily venison. They have found that venison fed to dogs have great health benefits. Might be why my dogs look so good and have great stamina.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

Libertyfirst, thanks for your kind words. The .270 dinger is a joke among our deer gang and family around home. We torment the .270 users unmercifully, telling them that it's a woman's .30-06, they should trade up to a .303 British, or whatever else we can dream up. My son, while quite young, once told one of our .270 owners that "you'd be better off with my daddy's potato gun". Gotta like that. My brother-in-law has one, as does our pastor, and they get NO mercy come fall. Good hunting to you and yours.

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from country road wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

Outdoorchic, your club sounds like the model all other clubs should try to emulate when it comes to dog hunting deer. I grew up with dog hunting and agree that it's a lot of fun and can be very effective. I now prefer hunting without dogs and have no problem with those do. Unfortunately, over the past couple of decades most of my experiences with dog hunters have been with those who aren't members of your club and are pretty much at the other end of the spectrum. There are too many slobs and worse in all segment of the hunting population and we good guys on both sides have to make it our job to do the right thing and respect each other---take the high road.

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from jason rieke wrote 4 years 28 weeks ago

I've never known people who hunt with dogs, and I've never seen them either. I wouldn't like to see people running their dogs in public land. They can be to loud. They scare the smaller animals away like squirrels. I have never been on a deer hunt where I haven't seen squirrels. Also if your puttin your sights on a deer and some random dog comes and scares it away, wouldn't you be pissed? I can see how it would be fun, but I would never do it on public land.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

LOL ! Thought "we" were the only people doing the "shirt-tail" thing LOL. Thanks for the memorys of MY first "cut" !

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from codyboyd wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

i agree with steelheader. i love the challenge of hunting and patterning them and I will never give it up. I love what i do. here in wisconsin, the dnr has the right to shoot a dog if it is chasing a deer. what do ya think of that?

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Outdoorchic, you make running deer with dogs sound like a lot of fun, and exciting. I'm still not convinced of the ethics. In one hunt you described three packs were chasing one buck. The buck was run until he broke a foot/leg. When the trackers finally caught up they had to scare six dogs off the deer so they could make the final kill. That is not an attractive image for hunting from my perspective. You are correct that some still hunters make bad shots. I have always believed that you don't take a shot unless you are sure of the kill. An ethical kill is a clean and quick kill. Running shots are by their nature a throw of the dice. Some hunters are more skilled than others. But, the chance of wounding the deer is high when you are taking a running shot. I am sure that with dogs you can still usually collect that wounded deer. Being dependent on dogs to track your wounded deer speaks either to poor skill or a questionable method. By far my favorite hunting style is the spot and stalk for antelope and muleys in western South Dakota. I've done my share of still hunting in Michigan, which is far more interesting with a bow than a gun. But to actively get out on foot, then sneak and crawl to within 100 yds (40 yds with a bow) of the game is challenging and great fun.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Exclusive hunting clubs, running deer with dogs, worrying about chasing deer on whoever's property ... I'd hang up my guns if it ever came to that around here. I don't hunt in drives either. That business of sitting on your butt and waiting for someone or a pack of dogs to chase an animal by you is not hunting by my definition. When I'm too old to walk, I'm done hunting. I've said it before, hunting is about "seek and destroy" not sitting on your can. It is legal to hunt moose with dogs here but the dog needs to be specially licensed. Still, in more than twenty years of hunting up here in NW Ontario, I have yet to see anyone actually using dogs. Most everyone I know looks down on it. You hound hunters should try spending a day (or, as I do, a couple of weeks) in the bush alone on the trail. You will take note of things all around you that you never noticed before. Trust me, you'll never go back to gang hunting with dogs or people on some canned hunt preserve.

Deer chased all over the place are not only stressed, they're not going to taste very good either. At least, not nearly as good as they would if not heated up before being shot. Any of us who have been at this long enough know that score well enough (antelope that have been chased around aren't fit for dogfood!). And call me a softy if you want, but terrorizing deer just doesn't cut it. I at least try to get the drop on the animal and send it to heaven in an instant. I feel an ethical obligation to make every effort to cause it as little grief as possible. Chasing deer with dogs is all about causing the deer grief.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Yeah, and who cares if those dogs get over on someone elses property and ruins their hunt? Usually a still hunter wont shoot a deer in front of a dog (ethics) But mostly the dogs loose the deer and run round and round someones greenfield just a bawling. The deer will not enter that field untill all the dog scent is gone. So--- its all right to step on our rights as long as your right is not interefered with, Right ? Maybe thats why the few states that still allow it have greatly restricted it and even baned it in certain parts of those states. In Florida, you better not let your deer dog trespass. In Missouri no deer dogs allowed but you cant even use a squirll dog during deer season. Enough people are getting fed up and deer dogging will soon become a thing of the past in those few states if the doggers dont start controlling their dogs.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The difference is that bird, rabbit, retrievers, and coon dogs stay close to the hunters that they are with and almost never get on someone elses property. We dont care how much you disturb the deer on your own land as long as you leave us alone. The coon dog that I had usually treed within a 1/4 mile of where he struck and I could call him back before he crossed the property line. I have never seen a deer dog that you could call back. The chief complaint we have is trespassing dogs and those hunters trespassing to catch dogs. The doggers talk about heritage, rights, and etc. but property rights are a tradition and heritage far and above dogging rights but the deer doggers seem to disreguard property rights. I have heard no complaints about any of the other sporting dogs.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Why aint the deer doggers "liable for the dogs actions" ?

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from tbogg10 wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

well i am not against drives or running dogs, but i personally do not like either way, simply because i like the peace and quit of the woods and those ways take that away.

for your question i would assume the problem is with the people that let their dogs go and dont care were they run whether it be on private property or not, so thats the only reason i could see outlawing dogs.

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

I just don't get it,I got my first 2 hounds for my 12 birthday and had deer hounds up till 2years ago. I'm in my 50s and the worst day I could have all season would be for land owner or the law to stop and even worn me about my dogs.I've rode the property lines and called I would wait at their gates trying to get my dogs back.The day is lost if my dogs got any where I couldn't go.It just got where I couldn't afford keeping dogs and paying the lease.Friends your problem is with the ones up holding the law not all dog hunters, there are some FOOLS that will always trespass be it on foot or with dogs grow a backbone.If someone comes on my place no body is going to be happy.I will always give someone a warnning but after that I call the Law and I keep calling till something is done.Go to the station, go to the court house.I've even gone to their house,the cops house.One man that came on my place,I went to his house as well and just talked to him.He wasn't happy to see me but he listened,I told him I wanted to get along but I waited all my life to have a place that was mine.That I would never give in to him trespassing and was willing to do what ever it took to see to that.I also told him I would help him in any way and would try to be a friend but on this matter I would not give as long as I had air in me.Guys I love hunting but I have no other word but hate for those that chose to take something from me.Dogs hunting belongs to these men just as your land belongs to you,bust those that abuse either.God Bless

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from virge wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

I was born and raised in the south too. But unlike another poster, I was raised to respect another mans property and his rights. Some of us are not rich yankee's. Some did without many things to own a few acres. Some of us dont feel that it right to deer hunt with dogs but will leave you alone if you leave us alone. When you "just drop the tailgate and let them run" then your running all over the land we worked so hard for. It ruins our hunting because as someone else said we dont think its right to shoot a deer in front of a dog. After the dogs run on our land we dont see another deer during the daylight for several days. You completely ruin our hunting. In effect you are hunting the land that we paid for!

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 27 weeks ago

The only ones the doggers will help is themselfs, so I'm not counting on them. In fact, Last season one of my neighbors was going arround a curve on a dirt road when 2- 4wds with dog boxes came sliding arround (must have been trying to get ahead of the dogs) and ran her off the road. They never came back and she had to call a tow truck.

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from 257ack wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

scrawford, let me ask you a question. You say to hunt whatever way you want, as long as its legal. In my case the doggers back up within a few feet of my property line and turn loose. That is LEGAL but it is WRONG!!!. When I approached those doggers they told me "I cant help which way my dogs run" I sweated blood and tears to save enough to buy 120 ac just to hunt in piece and quite. I will not shoot a deer in front of a dog so it completly ruins all enjoyment of my land. If I bought a new truck then I would have a right to enjoy it. Is not property more valuable than a truck? Dosn't your right stop when it greatly violates my right?

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from fortknox02 wrote 2 years 22 weeks ago

I dont wanna get anything stirred up again and i know im kinda late commenting but i started out hunting deer with dogs. It is legal in south Georgia but the older i got the more dangerous i found it to be. Ive seen some great hunting dogs get shot or run over by traffic because they got passed the people that was supposed to catch them.. Good dogs. Some dogs i raised from a puppy. Ive had a good friend of the family get hit by the few shotgun pellets that missed the deer. This does NOT happen all the time but it only takes once by an unexperienced person. I myself find it safer and more peaceful to sit in a tree and wait on a deer to walk out in its natural habitat not being slam full of adrenaline from runnning from a pack of dogs for an hour. Ive seen way bigger bucks get killed by a hunter sitting in a tree.

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from 257ack wrote 2 years 21 weeks ago

Lets be truthful,Deer doggin' is an abomination. As already mentioned its dangerous, unsportsmanlike, violates fair chase, interferes with others trying to hunt, and violates property rights; which they are completly unconcerned about. Their only concern is their fun and it dont matter who they run over doing it. They freely admit " my dog dont know property lines" so obvisouly, they completely disreguard property rights which to most of us are sacred. I cant count the number of times that I have came arround a curve on a dirt road and ran upon "bubba" with a shotgun in one hand and a Bud lite in the other. If we start bugging our politicians it will become outlawed!

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from virge wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

Well! I guess that Im a fool and a sanctimonious mooron too, because for the most part, I agree with 357. At least hes not a liar. Heres a quote from over a year ago by 007 "rest assured this is the very LAST time I will stir this pile" The way that I read 357's post, He was just agreing with the last several posters and offering a remedy. 007 you seem so unconcerned about property rights; Do you really think you have a right to run them across every one else's land? From reading all the post here your the one whos mostly alone. We do agree on one thing, I sure dont see it your way. (I see that many other posters dont see it your way either) You seem to think that we should just give in and let you run all over us. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Personally I think you should stir it more.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

The thing about dogs as that even the tamest of dogs can be hard to control. Tell me, what happens when your dog won't listen to commands and ends up going on a wild goose chase on private property after an animal? Better yet what happens if your dog gets a hold of the deer? I believe that by adding a dog to your arsenal, it greatly takes away the human skill needed to harvest deer. Even though many of you do not want to hear this, hunting deer should be 100% human skill without the aid of an excellent dog nose.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

You can criticized this thought if you want but this is what I personally believe. For the record, I am not saying this is what you should all believe or that this is correct. I think that when harvesting deer, you should put them down as soon as possible and they should never see it coming. Killing deer should be as humane as possible. I personally feel that by adding dogs into the equation, the deer sense the trouble coming. This is more of a mental issue for me. I don't want to see an animal in fear when I harvest them. I want them to leave having no emotional distress and with as little pain as possible. This is just my own opinion and beliefs. I respect your decisions if you feel otherwise.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 17 weeks ago

You have some very nice writing skills Beekeeper. Maybe you should consider publishing a book. Just to clarify, I do raise the animals that I eat (Steers and sheep) and I do raise the crops that I tend to. I personally try not to worry about anything in life however. I know that what ever happens happens and God will provide for me.

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from virge wrote 2 years 14 weeks ago

I'm with you Tawster, If they cant control them then they shouldnt run them. I have heard many say we try to control our dogs and then see the same ones with the tailgate down, letting out dogs just a few feet off my property line. What they are doing, in fact is hunting our property by letting the dogs jump a deer on our land and run it till it gets to where they can shoot it. Its wrong, verry verry wrong, but they dont care bout nothing but their sport.Please contact your politicians and tell them how you feel. They are starting to get enough complaints now that they are starting to listen to us. Let your voice be heard!!!

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 14 weeks ago

Tawster, you took the words out of my mouth. I believe that hunting should be about skill that is developed through years of practice and learning. Hunting with dogs is harvesting not hunting. While using a dog, the skill in finding and chasing the deer is in the dog. The only human skill is in raising the gun and pulling the trigger. I find hunting to be so arousing because I use my hard earned skills to find the animal and lure it in to kill it all on my own. Another aspect that hits me is that when the deer is running from the dog, you have no time to think of where that bullet is going. Your thinking about how fast you can put the cross hairs on the deer before it gets away. The difference between a shotgun and rifle is the distance that the bullet travels. Even in Wisconsin, I am afraid to shoot at ground level at a deer with a rifle. The woods are densely populated with hunters and if I am not in a tree stand, I know that the bullet is not going straight into the ground.

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from ten0see43 wrote 2 years 14 weeks ago

Our country was founded on religious freedom and property rights-----NOT DEER DOGS--- Trespassing deer dogs deprive me of the property rights that I worked so hard to get. I completely agree with those who oppose it on the grounds that its not fair chase to shoot a deer in front of a dog, that its not fit to eat after it is run to death, and all the other unsportsman like comments that have been made. My main gripe is dogs running all over my land ruining my hunting. Altho I dont agree with it or like deer doggin, I believe in live and let live; but they wont let me live. They infringe on my rights. Therefore, I have joined the fight to completely ban deer dogs. I have united with other groups that are getting large enough to have political clout and they are listening. Like has already been said, contact your officials and join in with one of the groups that have been organized.

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from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

You folks who are so happy with all the minus 1's can pile on more.

I find it quite laughable that you all talk about how unfair dog hunting deer is. This tells me not a one of you have one speck of experience with dog hunting at all. You are simply tossing in an opinion gathered from pure conjecture or what someone else said in an opinion piece.

The bunch of you make it sound as if the hound delivers the deer to your stand site at a prearranged delivery time and ties it down while you take your good time to shoot it. If any of you had actually ever been on a deer dogging hunt you would know better. As with any other form of hunting there is no guarantee that you will even see a deer much less get a shot at one.

I'll bet that a good number of you boo hooing dog hunting deer don't mind perching over a pile of corn in your "fair chase" pursuit of said deer.

Be very aware of who and what you want to ban. Hunting is a sport of tradition and petty bickering and jealousy will only hasten the end for ALL OF US!

By the way, I don't dog hunt deer, but I have been there and bought the T-Shirt.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

In response to Benjismokin, while I respect your opinion, I still disagree. On dog drives it is mandatory on our club that all hunters use shotguns. We are spaced out on a huge tract of land and contrary to what you may believe the deer isn't going to hear the dogs running one deer and all of them jump up scared and be running in every direction. I have sat on a deer drive before and dogs be running through an area close by and leave, hour or two go by I am still sitting there and a deer just walk right in front of me. No help from the dogs!! Basically still hunting. Besides if you are a deer hunter sitting up in a tree watching no should I say baiting (which mind you when I am not dog driving is just what I have done)deer, where is the sport in that. The deer walk right out in front of you, and you kill it while it is eating!!! What you then, executioner giving it its last supper? On dog drives the deer is given fair chase and it knows we are there and depending on the knowledge of the hunters its up to them to have enough of sense to know where the deer is more than likely to go or run to. And let me tell you most of the time, the deer is not run to death, we usually "harvest" the animal once its jumped within twenty minutes or so. As for the major help, you may need it when one night in the future(after they ban all dog drives) when you driving home after still hunting (more than likely hadn't seen a thing) and a big buck or doe jumps in the front of your vehicle and completely demolishes it. How many deer do you kill in a year? We have harvested over 100 a year for the past two years that I have been keeping record. There is a over abundance of deer you cut out dog drives and see how many car-deer accidents occur. We do the people driving back and forth on the roads a justice.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I also want to add one more thing, we are not stupid either. Our club puts our land in a deer management program where you only kill so many does. We only dog drive three days a week and we never hunt the same tract straight in a row. We have never had a problem with the still hunters who are part of our club. We have dog drived a piece of land and that same day a still hunter go there to his stand and kill deer. My original question to this is why can't still hunters get along with dog hunters? I want to know something how would you feel if they banned baiting deer (which in my understanding is in the works) and prohibit the use of scent control and callers? Aren't these all tools to help you kill a deer. There is no difference in using dogs. Instead of arguing with one another we ought to be pulling together and stand up against non-hunters because it is slowly coming to where soon we are not going to be able to hunt at all, neither of us. UNITED WE STAND

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Outdoorchic

I completely debone all deer and elk down to scraps that are really not fit to eat for us, but my dogs LOVE it. I package all the "leavin's" for them. I never feed them the crap that is sold for canned dog food. Only organic lamb and rice based dry food plus organic meat scraps, mostly deer and elk and some goose. Both retrievers ( 2 and 10) and the dachshund (14) are in great shape.

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from BigWoodsHunter57 wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

I hate to say it but Im definetly taking the side of most of the commentors...I think its wrong, how can you even take pride in killing a large game animal if you dont even track it down and hunt it, the dogs do and you just follow them

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 41 weeks ago

Thanks Huntcamp! I love hunting period. I just dont get why all of hunters cant agree to disagree that everyone has their style. We tried man driving a piece of land that the timber company we rent from banned dog running on. We had no luck at all. Of course there was a lot of the land we just couldn't get into. Where there is water thats where the deer tend to head when they feel threatened. Deer I shot at last year on a dog drive doing its bobbing as you put it, I shot him a gut shot unfortunately. So we tracked a good blood trail across this big bean field. Found where the deer went in and we couldn't go any further because it was a beaver pond. We put our tracking dogs on the track and she went in baying and when we couldn't get in to her she came back bloodied. So I know I got the deer but it was in a place that no sane person would attempt to go. Hot weather, Moccasins, rattlesnakes. Nope not for me. Although I did go in as far as I could. With that said there are plenty of idiot hunters of all styles of hunting. My belief and hope by debating this issue and many more concerning hunting is to educate people that we are all hunters and we don't need to fight or grumble about each other. This is a dying sport whether any of you know it. How you gonna hunt if they take our guns? Stand together, quit all this funnel vision thinking. There is a big world out there, there is room for us all. And believe it or not at the club I hunt at there is room for both still hunters and dog hunters, duck hunters and deer hunters. If we can all hunt together on over 4000 acres, I am sure all of you can hunt beside private properties with different people.

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

Our club has 1500 acres to hunt on, it abuts another hunting club that has 5000 acres and surrounding us is 35000 acres of game land. We really don't interfere with anybody else. I meant the 13 year old shot a spike buck, another 7 point was taken as well by another hunter.

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

DC Blue is actually the name of our hunting club in Moore County. Just outside of Aberdeen about an hours drive from Richmond County. We abut the Mecklenberg Hunting Club. Sounds like a good day for you as well. We have a posterboard with shirt tails on it. Some go back a long time ago.

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from kodnocker wrote 4 years 21 weeks ago

I think the reason some people get worked up over dogs is the fact that their sense of smell is so much greater than ours, as well as eyesight. This would give the advantage to the hunter running the dogs. Humans can walk right by a deer bedded down and the deer will sit there. If a dog winds the scent, they are on the trail. So i can see how some hunters might view this as unfair. In Ohio it is illegal to hunt deer with dogs, so for me it is not so much an issue. If it is legal in your state, and that is the way you want to hunt, you are within your right. I don't know that I would hunt that way, but I have never tried. I sometimes get crap for using a crossbow during archery season. Just get out, follow the rules, and kill a monster trophy buck!

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from codybrotz14 wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

i think no dogs it should be fair chase always

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from doghunter wrote 4 years 19 weeks ago

will just say this. we hunt with dogs not because we have to or because we cant kill a deer without dogs. we hunt with them because we love doing it and love the sound of your own hunting dogs running a deer. i could go out anyday and kill a deer still hunting, i know this because every time i do still hunt i see at least 10 deer(bucks and does). also i would never kill adeer still hunting unless it was a nice buck becuase i just dont get much excitement (unless im bow hunting). hunting deer with dogs is way more challengeing because hitting a deer running flat out is way harder than sniping them out of a treestand. and dont even think about arguing with that last statement unless youve actually tried it. all in all, with all the anti hunting people these days all hunters should get along because if we dont hunting in general will go on a downward spiral.

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from stephensfamily@... wrote 4 years 19 weeks ago

We are all out there for similar reasons. Different areas do things differently. If you don't want to hunt with dogs don't go to the states that allow it. and visa verse. As far as the trophy aspect that is totally false. Almost all of the trophy bucks come from states that don't hunt with dogs. That's not to say they don't come from the states that do allow dogs. Just most don't.
Remember just because we don't agree with different techniques we don't need to give the anti's any ammo against us. good hunting

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 18 weeks ago

I have tried it and even tho I was lucky enough to kill a 10 pt. I dont like it! What I shot depended entirely on what the dogs were running. I got to thinking "this is not fair chase!" It is no sport at all. What is fair chase is to learn a trophy bucks habits and hunt him fair and square. Another thing that I didnt like was that was no way we could keep the dogs from tresspassing on someone else land and a landowner should have the right to keep deer dogs off his land. I finally got enough money to buy 120 ac. so that I could hunt in peace and quite,and I had made up my mind that I would not never sink low enough to shoot a deer in front of a dog again. I had to sue the timber co. that joined me because they leased to doggers that allowed their dogs to run my land. When the dogging stopped it took 3 years for the deer to start moving as normal. Dont tell me about baiting because I have seen in Alabama, Georgia and the Carolina's where they turn the dogs out on a big pile of corn in the middle of the woods. That is much worse than hunting over a greenfield or under oak trees.

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from fsu33952 wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I believe that the sad truth as that many dog hunters are making things bad for the ones that do things the proper way. Here in the area I live in we have both a fall and spring turkey season, so I do very little deer hunting. The fall season goes out on December 31st so I went running dogs with my nephew this past season. We hunt on US Forest service land and antlered bucks are all that are legal. When we went to get on the stands, I was told "it if it is brown it is down". I told them that I wouldn't risk getting in trouble for shooting an illegal deer. They told me that "we had to shoot does in order to keep the dogs of running through onto private land". These guys turned the dogs loose and it sounded like a miniature war. These guys shoot from roads, drive like maniacs to cut dogs off, turn dogs loose on top of areas where still hunters had already taken a stand, drove over and around forest service blocked roads, on top shooting illegal deer. On top of all of that these dogs had been hunted everyday for over a week. They were worn out. I grew up deer hunting with dogs but had not done it for years. I think if it is done legally and ethically then it is great, but people I will tell you now that the consensus belief in the world is that dog hunters are outlaws. For those of you that do it the right way, you need to reel in your friends that are outlaws before they ruin it for everyone. I ended up and called ASPCA to go out and check on these dogs that I saw. They have been given a warning and two weeks to fix their issues or their dogs will be seized.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry if I came off as being critical. Perhaps I'm just too passionate. I have walked more than a mile in the same sort of shoes (mine are White's boots). I formerly hunted with a group and I have done the drive gig. Many times. It's all about coordination, planning, etc. Too many rules for me. The freedom of hunting alone on the track is addicting. It's as genuine as you can get. Try setting up a wall tent and hunting alone for a week or two without seeing a soul except mother nature and you'll never want to stop.

I do hunt birds with dogs and I love to watch them work, but they don't chase the birds for miles. More like feet or yards. My passion is compassion when it comes to hunting. My desire to "make a kill" will never exceed my respect for the animal or bird I intend to kill. I will not leave a crippled goose in the decoys simply to attract more birds. And I won't run deer down with dogs. Guys will use dogs to hunt pigs, coons, cats, and bears and argueably in some situations that is the only effective way to thin the numbers and keep things in balance. I don't do it but I guess I'm glad someone else does. For deer (whatever the species), it's not necessary. It's more effective, I'm sure. But again, I'm not going to put my desire to make a kill above the animal's right to not be put through any undue stress.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

In the majority of the country having access to enough public land to hunt is out of the question.Large private landowners will not allow access to thier lands for any purpose unless it is leased for the specfic purpose of hunting,this is how they pay the taxes on the property.As for the ability to hit a deer on the move Thats a problem i have never had.If one over the number of decades learns the habits of deer he knows that a deer will not run flatout of rifle range.Being dependent on a dog to find wounded game shows a man that can train a dog.Even a heart shot deer can run beyond belief.Speaks nothing of skill.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

How long before the coon dog is banned because he can't read or the bird dog because the hunter should be a good enough hunter to know where the birds are.Deer dogs are a thing of the past now the rest of the dogs are in the same boat.It's an indivual right that has been taken away.Each group has their own points but all are vunerable to losing their right to hunt in the way they wish.In my opinion a green field is just as much baiting as a pile of corn.Both unnatural food added to bring in game.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

According to my research a little over half of Alabama is still open to dog hunting. Over the past several years deer dogging became illegal in several counties and portions of several counties. The DRNC put differing restrictions on most the other counties. All the areas that are open to dog huting are under the permit system. Clubs that have complaints will loose their permit. The DRNC is trying to get the doggers to clean up thier act before closing any more land to them. I suggest that we dont start calling names such as Alabama outlaw did. Thanks for the link to the petition

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

They are liable for damages/property destruction. They have to be reported in order to be held accountable.

I don't agree with a proposed law(not sure if it passed) that give dog hunters (All) to retrieve their dogs from other peoples property without asking for assistance and at the minimum permission from the land owner. To me that's common courtesy and the right thing to do. That will minimize the accusations, bad feelings and damage if any is caused by Hunting Dogs.

I'm held accountable as a pet owner to have my pets vaccinated, sheltered and and in a clean, safe and if outdoors contained area... leash, runner etc.

When I hunt my dog is on a lead and with me. She's a pup and still learning and to me that's the responsible thing to do.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

257ack...
I gave you a plausible solution and even agreed with you on some of the posts to include the last two with exception to the state wide vote that would include non hunters especially antis and city people that think going to a park is being out in the woods.

I think if it involves hunting it should be first polled throughout the outdoors community withing the STATE. Especially Hunters of that STATE that have invested as you said their time and money to enhance their hunting goals and stakes Because DOGS, LAND, LEASES, HUNT CLUBS, ARCHERY HUNTING, GUN HUNTING, SCOUTING, LAND MANAGEMENT costs alot of money on all sides. All sides should have equal say and could arrange a compromise and even stricter guidelines.

It is a heritage of many Hunters and they will fight it in their traditional states if you try to force it on them.

You don't hunt every species of game in your state do you?
You open up alot of opportunites for antis if you do not first start with the Hunting Community to resolve the issue.
I've been trying to get you to see that and to settle on a compromise rather than an all out ban. Because if you and others scream deer hunting with dogs is cruel alongside the antis they will in turn use that knowledge to ban coon hunts where dogs fight and kill coons, bear, hog and cat hunts where dogs track, run, corner and even fight with the game.

Read my posts again you'll see that' ive said I don't dog hunt or totally agree with it and I've had dogs running and non dog hunters walk up on and even drive thru an area i was hunting and it pissed me off on the lack of consideration. It's not only the dogs/dog hunters it also Stand hunters that do the same thing.
There are many post on here stating that as well.

"On public lands tree stand stolen, guy walks up and though he sees me sits down and hunts 45 yards away"

Not all Dog Hunters are bad peopl just like not all stand hunters are considerate and ethical hunters.

I just want you to realize that. You have very valid points and you could propse such a poll to occur thru the local game and fisheries or even with the support of a hunting club.

We as hunters are losing ground everyday and the less hunters the less legs and voices behind us. If they are doing it legally, not trespassing, not mauling, not trashing an area just hunting their lease then let them enjoy their tradition.
HOLD THE NEGLIGENT PARTIES ACCOUNTABLE!

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

YES INDEED!! I am for baning deer dog hunting completely. You may not realize it but there are many more horror stories out there. Most much worse than mine. The next best solution would be to follow the example of the state of Florida (only 9 states allow dogging). In Florida its as much against the law to let your dog trespass as it is for you. The "Hunter Responsibility Law" is well enforced and it is very rare to have a trespassing dog. I'm not sure how they keep them on their land (Which has to be registered along with the dog and the hunter) but Ive been told tracking collars and shock collars. Below is a link to the Proposal which became law the next season.
www.flhuntingdogs.org/FAQs.pdf
P.S. I am not voting anyone up or down

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

doghunter as i've said before I have nothin against dog hunting of any type. I grew up in a state where deer hunting is allowed with dogs and with out.

I also do not like to see traditions as old as this country being stripped away. I know dog hunters and some of them are my kin.

I would like to see it more regulated where there are problems with the guys that run the dogs intentionally on other peoples property and run deer towards their area.

You've read my posts you know where I stand and what I know about the Hunters both dog and still in my State.

275ack has a valid point in that it's his property being trespassed on and he wants to hunt in peace and quiet.
I can't fault him for that because that is what all hunters/ fisherman want is a place to conduct business and enjoy themselves safely and without interruption.

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Could you enlighten me on this "all dogs damage property." thing?

The most damage my dogs could do would be pee on a tree.

Mind you, I still don't like deer dogs.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Meant all breeds of dogs have been known to damage property not just Deer Dogs..

For instance this morning on the radio news that a Police officer is recovering from a pit bull attack that happened while he was anwering a disturbance call.

My downstairs neighbors boxer tore out a storm door screen trying to get out and a window screen and blind

News reports on Dogs mauling and killing kids and adults.

Dogs digging holes under fences, Chewing on things, Chasing livestock.

My dog digs holes every now and then.

So therefore all breeds of dogs are capable of damaging property

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

To all those who have never deer hunted with dogs,many not all sound like your from PETA.You say you never take a shot unless you can make a ethical shot, I guess you don't do any bird hunting than!If you hunt and live up north it's hard to get a feel for the thickness of the woods down south.The dogs never see the deer so they don't run by sight,so the deer are able to stay ahead of the deer.I known many dog men that loved working with their dogs and hearing them run more then ever killing a deer.I own 85acres that I bought just for still hunting and lease another with friends for still hunting as well.But I grew up hunting with dogs so I see both sides.What's wrong with setting on a bucket or a dog box?Hunters set in fields to shoot dove,ducks rabbits,ect.I admire those that live up North and can walk for miles in woods without many roads or hunting clubs,I wish you well,but you see too many of you have moved South and now we have lost much of the land that we use to hunt.I always said I hope things would get better up North so more of you would stay there.It's sad but true there are a few bad hunters in any type of hunting, let us work on outlawing those few not each other.Wish I could still leave my house and hunt as I did as a child,no clubs,no posted signs but I still choose to hunt as I can tell I'm no longer able or allowed.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

Follow-up, does anybody really want those who live in the citys of our various states and have NO understanding of the outdoors voting on hunting issues? Look how well this has worked on 2nd amendment issues. Better to keep that genie in the bottle.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

I truely understand a landowners rights to protect his property and his ability to restrict intrusion on to said property.
I have hunted all kinds of dogs and have had coon hounds hit a hot track and be gone sometime out of earshot.I have also had beagles jump a swamp rabbit and run him just like a deer.They may have short legs but they can move.I have also fox hunted they called it but it was when coyotes were first invading Arkansas and they would have thirty dogs mostly walkers chase a coyote down and eliminate it.There was no catching them until the task was done.Why do deer dogs get the bad rap.Deer that have been run by dogs get wise and play games with the dogs by running circles,jumping to the side of the trail,hitting the water.they are not helpless little creatures,the coyotes run them year round.They are the ones that are eating up the fawn crops and the weak.

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

257ack,you just stated the same thing I said earlyer,the law needs to be better or law enforcement.I own the land I spoke about it's only 85ac,I only still hunt now.It's still not right for all dog hunters to lose their sport because you live or hunt around a bunch of trash.That's what they are TRASH it happens, if they were on foot would you want all hunting outlawed because you couldn't keep people off you land.When the dogs come on your place,catch them and put them in a pen.CALL the owners about dark and have them pick their dogs up.I've hunted around still hunt clubs that would bring our dogs to their gate after dark.They were going to catch them so dogs wouldn't be running around or running deer,but they were not calling tell dark.If these guys care about the dogs,they will not want to be without them all day and not knowing for sure till dark if you have them or their just lost on your place.Tell them this rule and always make sure the dogs are safe.Most clubs build pens just for this.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

Another thought comes to me on this, 257ack. From the way you describe the people giving you trouble, if you really stir things up with them, they might be the kind of folks who would cheerfully cut fences, shoot livestock, seed your driveway with roofing nails, etc. Better think ahead a bit, is it worth it? I ran a pair of morons off my land a couple of years ago who swore that it was theirs and not mine (I'd only lived there 40+ years) and warned them in writing that the next time I'd be calling the law. After that I had dead groundhogs piled in my driveway, my "private drive" sign shot to pieces, and huge donuts spun in my hayfields, yet local law enforcement can't do anything about all of that. Have you tried to get along with these folks and reason with them? A soft answer turneth away wrath.

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from Danny Buck wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

It seems that there is alot of up-roar on this subject. I am 30 yrs old and was brought up hunting and fishing not only for a sport but for food. I still hunt and hunt with dogs, it seems to me the biggest problem is greed. I remember as a kid hearing the old men in my community talking about thier child hood. They hunted coon and fox with dogs riding mules as a sport, because there were no such thing as a deer just hear say. Later years deer tracks started showing up in parts of the county but they were rarely seen. Men in the county went from fox hunting to try deer hunting. They would get together on Saturdays and ride the dirt roads hoping to find a deer track for the hounds to trail up. It was no such thing of a posted sign. All the men had cb radios to talk to each other in order to keep up with the hounds. They only killed 5 to 10 deer a year and got together as often as they could to cook and fellowship. But the population of deer stared to grow out of control like it is now. It seems to me back in the day all the men in the county hunted together until the population spread over the whole county. Thats when more people got interested in deer hunting and started forming clubs. Deer were being seen alot more often so some hunters started still hunting. Thats when grunt calls, scents, camo, food plots, tv shows showing big rack deer being killed and anything else that could be sold to increase the chance to kill a deer. Greed came along with all that then posted signs. Deer hunting has become a sport of money and greed. Just look at the tv shows they are all trying to sell something to kill a big rack deer. I have always said if every deer was made equal you would be able to hunt everywhere. So my conclusion is you greedy and out of town still hunters, think about my heritage when you come into dog running country and rent a piece of land to hunt.
Yours truly, Wetbuck

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from virge wrote 4 years 7 weeks ago

NEITHER SIDE IS LISTENING !!
I have been reading this post with a good bit of intrest and neither side is listening. Those who support hunting with dogs say that the other group should support each others rights but it seems that they only want the other side to support their rights and they wont do anything to control their dogs (they could do much more). In all the post there has not been a remark like we will try to keep our dogs on our place if you try to work with us if we slip.
The other side of the fence doesn't respect tradition and only their right to use their property. I have not seen a post by the other side that addresses tradition or says that we will work with you if you make a honest attempt to keep your dogs off me.
If the status quo is to continue then there is going to have to be some give and take on both sides. Those running dogs *must* do better at controling the dogs ; And those who dont want dogs on their property *must* forgive an occasional incident if the hunters are making a good effort to keep their dogs on their hunting land.
Some states (GA, Al,& Ark) have closed dog hunting in areas where no *compromise could be reached BUT! left it open where the hunters did a good job of controling their dogs and the landowners accepted an infringement or two if they knew that the hunters were trying to controll their dogs.

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from Deerslayer76 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Hunting with dogs is fine,,,If you can keep the dogs on the designated hunting area,,,which usually isnt a problem with hunting clubs because they have/lease large tracts of land,,and in many states they have a designated season for hunting deer with dogs on public land,and hunters are still allowed to Still/Tree hunt during that time if they want to,but they know the dogs are out,,so there is no suprise there.......
But there are always problems every year between a few unattentive dog hunters and property owners,such as reports of property damage because the dogs run through a pasture spooking cattle or horses causing them to run into fences,,the occassional off track and poorly trained dogs that have been found running goats instead of deer....reports of police being called to settle an ownership dispute in public hunting areas because a Still/Tree hunter shot and killed a deer that another hunters dogs were chasing...just to name a few....Hunting deer with dogs is legal in my state but its not very well regulated...
My county has a huge deer population and a large majority of hunters who hunt their own land,lease farm property ect..and as long as I can remember there were on going problems with dog hunters who dont pay attention...it all ended in 1996 when the county passed an ordinance that put restrictions on hunting deer with dogs,now to hunt with dogs you have to purchase a $75 permit...all dogs must be licensed,tagged and have their shots up to date..numbers are limited to the use of only 4 dogs per permit...hunting with dogs on rented/leased/owned property is limited to tracts of no less than 250 acre's...If the dogs are found tresspassing on private land and captured by the poperty owner the hunter could be fined upto $250 per dog.....
The ordinance restrictions didnt apply to those hunting in the state park or on state owned public lands...except the part about being fined for dogs on private property......after a while with the large increase in the numbers of dog hunters using the state park and the few public areas they reduced the season down to only 2 weeks instead of 4....it solved alot of problems since the state is relatively poor and can not monitor and regulate hunting with dogs as much as it should....

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from MPN wrote 4 years 5 days ago

257ack,
Thanks for the -1. I can understand your view but don't you dare tell me my ethics are wrong because I don't care how others hunt! Respect my opinion and I'll respect yours but if you attack my ethics well let's just say your gonna start a fight. Oh and I never said I personally would hunt with dogs.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 46 weeks ago

Some folks just like to fight about anything! If there is too much interference between hound hunters and still hunters, encourage your state to set separate seasons.

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from 257ack wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

HE!! NO!!!! I cant accept the fact that deer dogs will invade, trespass,run deer on my property that I sweated blood and tears for. It completely ruins my hunting on my property that I have e right to hunt without trespassing dogs. I spent a lot of time and money preparing my land to hunt in peace and quite. Ya'll must think you have a right to hunt MY land by running the deer with dogs to a place where you can shoot them. That is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Many of us are madder than HE** and are trying to outlaw deer dogging

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from virge wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

I agree with 257. The deer doggers wont control the dogs and those dogs will trespass on other property and thats wrong. In the state of Fla there is a big fine for trespassing deer dogs and not many other states allow deer dogs at all. Here, There is no recourse for dogs running on our land here and its not against the law. Deer doggers cant be held acountable for trespassing dogs. There is more "bad apples" than you think I feel that the doggers are the ones who are closed minded and biased. They cant understand why we dont want those dogs on our property. You better not mention infringement or property rights or controlling the dogs to them. That is why We will need to continue our battle to ban deer dogs here because the doggers do not respect property rights. At our last meeting, many property owners said that they would release dogs a few feet from their property line in an attempt to run the deer back that they had run off their land.I say, Either pass a law against trespassing dogs (not likely here) or ban it completely which is a good possibility. If there is any deer doggers who act responsibly we have not met them. You say they have a right to hunt if its legal. Its not illegal to turn out deer dogs 10 ft from someones property line as long as they themselfs dont cross that line. It is not illegal for those dogs to run on your property and that is flat wrong!!! Not illegal just WRONG!! If it were illegal maybe we wouldn't have this problem. Something must be done!

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from MPN wrote 3 years 43 weeks ago

If they can keep the dogs on their property then why not? It's their property and their rights, but just keep them from infringing on others rights.

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from virge wrote 2 years 40 weeks ago

If I'm doing something that greatly infringes on someones rights then thats not ethical and it should be made illegal. (Just good common sense) Common ground would be that I wont push to outlaw dogging if they dont run dogs on my land. Its the doggers that cause all the trouble with their "if there are woods then its my God given right to run dogs there" attitude. Believe me they dont want any common ground, Just the right to let their dogs trespass on my land and they will not give an inch. Sure, we would work with them but they let and often cause the dogs to trespass and then say "my dogs cant read". Well, if they cant (wont)keep them off private property then it should be outlawed. I cant tell you what all I gave up just to have a little piece of my own land to enjoy. Instead of enjoying it has become pure misery.

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from LC wrote 2 years 31 weeks ago

Deer dogs are a huge problem in my area in Arkansas. The owners have no respect for private land or any one else hunting around them. If a deer dog hunter can not keep his dogs off of land he does not have permission to be on then he should lose the privelage to use deer dogs. If in a certain area it is basically impossible to control deer dogs then that area should be banned to deer dogs. Private property owners should have more rights on their land than deer dogs or their owners.

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from ten0see43 wrote 2 years 31 weeks ago

LC I feel your pain. And you are correct sir, doggers dont care about how you sweated to buy your land and to prepare it for you to hunt on. All they care about is having their fun at others expense. Unfortunately you have no right to protect your property and there is no law against trespassing dogs even if they turn loose 5 feet from your line. All that is changing slowly. Even Arkansas has outlawed dogs in many areas. Out of the 6 or 7 other states or portions thereof, more and more restrictions for deer dogs are being implemented. About half of Ga. and Al. are now closed to doggin. Fla has a law against trespassing deer dogs. This is because more and more of us are contacting our politicians and complaining. You and others in your area need to flood your politicians with complaints. Change will come.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 30 weeks ago

To many times I've drove around the corner on a Forrest road and be looking down the barrel of a fella in back of his pick up drinking beer with a group of guys running dogs.

So my thoughts of running deer with dogs is obvious!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 24 weeks ago

BMS

All depends on the area you hunt.

Allot of illegal deer do get shot and some wounded.

As for myself why I'm no longer for it?

I'm fed up driving around a corner looking down a barrel of someone standing in the back of a pickup bed with a ice chest full of beer!

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from CoBowHunter wrote 2 years 23 weeks ago

Wow! Obviously this topic has hit a nerve or two or a thousand. The mere fact that many are commenting on this topic indicates to me that there isn't agreement on this technique of using dogs. I don't ever want to discourage hunting, so I really wont comment. However, when we hunt, we expect a reasonable challenge for the effort and we would all like to do this so it's not interferring with others enjoyment of the sport. I support hunting and as long as it's not just shooting and the majority agree with the approach and conservation is on the forefront of the approach, I'm good with it.

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from Turkeytalk101 wrote 2 years 20 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter, the thing about this website is that there is a significant amount of opinions. Why, because it is tough to include facts. I have tried to include facts in some of my recent posts before and they have been criticized because they were hard to believe but true. You never know if what people on this website say is credible or not. What I find interesting is that there have been 286 opinions on this topic and yet you zero in on me and criticize my opinion. Why? Because you like the idea of using dogs while I think that it is wrong. What would you call this? Opinions. There is no right or wrong answer. My opinion is that it should be based upon 100% human skill while you think that everyone else has done it before so that means it should be right. I respect your opinion as much as I wish for you to respect mine. There is no need to start fights over this or any other post however. I am beginning to become frustrated with your negative comments towards me saying that I should shut up and leave and I do not know the facts. I would much appreciate if you would stop. I am a hunter just like you. I am giving my opinion on this website just as hundreds others do. If my opinion is not what you want to hear, just block it out but please don't hate. There are two sides on this topic and neither of them is right or wrong. The purpose of posting however is to let your side be known so that you can educate other hunters and hope that they will learn from your beliefs. WA MtnHunter, I respect your opinions even if I disagree. However, I will never say that your opinion is wrong. I wish you safe and successful hunting in the future.

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from 257ack wrote 2 years 14 weeks ago

Deer huntinh with dogs violates fair chase, is not sportsman like and is very unfair to land owners. It is an abomination. KEEP UP THE PUSH TO OUTLAW IT! Sue those who lease land to them ,sue the dog owners that chase or kill your chickens,pigs, goats etc. Mark those politicians who support the doggers and vote them out. Make your voice heard. There are enough of us to get it stopped.

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from br579 wrote 2 years 14 weeks ago

deer dogs will be outlawed. it might not be too long now either.its mostly their own fault, they think they own the world or least can let them dogs run all over it. i am sisk and tried of it. good ridence

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from KingFisher907 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

hell, why dont we all just use ATV's and handgrenades...

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Sorry jbwilll9, but I kind of disagree with you. I don't eat coon and don't know of anyone who does, but why would I run a deer out and then not take it. I do need the meat because I happen to favor deer over any other kind. It tastes better and is more healthier for me. And for the dogs, I pet them and then give them their share, the most nutritious part the heart, liver, and entrails. Thanks for your opinion though, I do talk with all my buddies all 44 of them. And I can't tell you the candid conversations we have been having about what I have told them what has been wrote on here. My friends help me run my dogs so I don't have to bring them they are already there. Thats the best part about dog drives. We all come together and do what we love, we take our deer, we dress him there, and then we all eat our rewards. I can't tell you how fulfilling it is to hunt that morning, take a deer, and we dress him and cook him that day. The club I hunt with is my second family, and we all get along and love doing what we do.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Yeap I couldn't agree with you more. Where I live and hunt at we use all the deer. One of the reasons dog running is a big hit down here is because we are almost always guaranteed a successful hunt. I am not a trophy hunter, I am just a regular redneck hunter who believes in getting out there with her dogs and busting briars to get a deer. I could care less what I get as long as it is over 60 lbs. and not a doe with a baby. I absolutely do not shoot babies and mamas. Hey, during hunting season we save on feeding our dogs, they get all the trimmings!!! If you have ever seen a dog naw on a deer hindquarter before you know that they love what they do. I have to feed my dogs dry dog food with at least 27 % protein and 15 % fat. When they run so much the weight don't want to stick to them with that other cheap stuff. I even pour grease, bacon, hamburger, fish, any kind over the food.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 41 weeks ago

Thanks Huntcamp! I love hunting period. I just dont get why all of hunters cant agree to disagree that everyone has their style. We tried man driving a piece of land that the timber company we rent from banned dog running on. We had no luck at all. Of course there was a lot of the land we just couldn't get into. Where there is water thats where the deer tend to head when they feel threatened. Deer I shot at last year on a dog drive doing its bobbing as you put it, I shot him a gut shot unfortunately. So we tracked a good blood trail across this big bean field. Found where the deer went in and we couldn't go any further because it was a beaver pond. We put our tracking dogs on the track and she went in baying and when we couldn't get in to her she came back bloodied. So I know I got the deer but it was in a place that no sane person would attempt to go. Hot weather, Moccasins, rattlesnakes. Nope not for me. Although I did go in as far as I could. With that said there are plenty of idiot hunters of all styles of hunting. My belief and hope by debating this issue and many more concerning hunting is to educate people that we are all hunters and we don't need to fight or grumble about each other. This is a dying sport whether any of you know it. How you gonna hunt if they take our guns? Stand together, quit all this funnel vision thinking. There is a big world out there, there is room for us all. And believe it or not at the club I hunt at there is room for both still hunters and dog hunters, duck hunters and deer hunters. If we can all hunt together on over 4000 acres, I am sure all of you can hunt beside private properties with different people.

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

I agree country road. The high road is the better road. Hard and difficult but sometimes leaving something unsaid makes hard feelings between the two type of hunters lesser. People do and say some terrible things in the heat of the moment and then regret it later on. Besides the cycle has got to be broke sometime. It is respectable hunters like you and our fellow bloggers that will bring the sport good attention instead of the humiiliation that some people heap upon the art of hunting!!!!

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from BioGuy wrote 4 years 28 weeks ago

Being from the north, I have never hunted with dogs. However, I can complely understand and respect the need to defend a successful hunting method that dates back to our ancient ancestors. As for your question, here are a couple reasons that I can think of for introducing a ban on dogs.

From a biological standpoint, running deer with dogs is energetically expensive and stressful for deer. Some may make the arguement that deer drives do the same thing, but as many drive hunters can attest to, deer can easily escape a deer drive. Escaping the nose of a well trained hound...not so easy.

From a legal standpoint, deer have no regard for property boundaries, and neither do the dogs chasing them. That may cause issues with nearby landowners, especially when it's time to get your dogs back. In the mean time, if your dogs are chasing deer on a property you cannot legally access, the deer are still being chased, which brings us back to stress and energy use.

However, there is no reason to let another time honored and very successful hunting tradition die. Instead of allowing a ban to take over, I would suggest pushing for a short period of time where dog hunting is allowed. A 3-day dog season should be more than enough to put meat in the freezer, keep deer stress and energy use low, and keep landowner complaints constrained to a short time-frame. Keep up the fight!

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from buckhuntr wrote 4 years 27 weeks ago

I'm from here in SC as well, and i hunt both. Stand hunt for 6 days a week, and dog hunt on Saturdays. Dog hunting is a thrill if you've never gotten to do it before. Yes, it does interfere with your stand hunting on that day, but rather than create problems, i just go along with it. Sadly, i dont think it'll be around for my kids though. i just know what dog hunting means to other hunters, so i'll let them enjoy it.

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from HoundHunter00 wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Im from Fl and I run deer hounds and I love it. The sound of the pack is what I spend most of my pay check on. From training my pups to running my older dogs it never gets old and as general gun season comes around im geting the fever and i hope the sport will still be around so my kids can get the same feeling and have fun with it. Iv come across some people who say deer hunting with dogs is like shooting fish in a barrel I disagree strongly. The reason I say that is because you have to pick you weapon of choice. See the way I hunt is, I use both a shot gun and a rifle so you have to choose which to use in the situation. Just last year I missed a 8 point 8 yards away because I thought the deer was way in front of the dogs and i had a rifle with a powerful scope and the same with a shot gun the deer could come out at 70 yards and you have a shotgun. Another reason is most all the deer iv shot at have been running full blast at about 20-200 yards and ill give it to you if you can hit a deer move fast as it can go at 175 yards. Running dogs is a skillful sport and most still hunters that dislike dog hunting have never tried it. I hunt in a national forest and the law is strongly enforced so theres no drinking and hunting with out having the state geting its intake so were helping the wildlife while conserving it with the laws. And were creating jobs in the community such as feed mills my dogs need to eat. And just in the past 2 years 4 feed houses have open becasue of new hound hunters such as me geting in to the sport. So I leave it to you. Every one has a way they hunt my is running Dogs =D

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from Outdoorchic wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Thanks for all your opinions!!! I do respect each and everyone of you for your style of hunting! But there is one thing I do have to clear up, well a couple of things....as far as one stand hunting and a dog come by and "mess" you up. Remember that not only hunting dogs are loose in our big outdoors!!! I have done heard of plenty of tales where coyotes have chased the deer right off of your "bait" piles. Here in SC the coyotes have become such a problem that on several occassions we as a club have quit the pursuit of the deer and started aiming at killing the coyote that was chasing the deer!!! In one day we harvested two of these deadly animals. I cant tell you how many times I have had a house dog come through my stand!! So what do I do tell people they cant have pets no longer? Another thing I must point out, squirrels arent going anywhere because of dogs!!! They are in the trees, and deer dogs ARE NOT interested anything but deer. I have sat on my stand on a deer drive just this past sat. and watch deer dogs track up and down this trail, the squirrels all around me playing and doing their thing, then I watched as the deer then the dogs come right down the trail and nothing was disturbed!!! I must point out as a dog handler myself, that while true a dog do give a deer a run for his money, that deer has just as good a chance of getting away as a deer on a man drive....there are places where I hunt that you just cant stand off that good and believe me the deer know that just as good as we do....we have been fortunate that in the area we hunt we can stand it off pretty tight and in the occassion that the deer do get by, we have been lucky to get there and get the dogs before they ever leave our land. Sure there are and always will be hunters that dont respect other peoples land and will go in after their dogs and run their dogs through other peoples land...but thats not everyone. But let me remind you there are just as many crooked still hunters, no change that there are more. Because on a dog drive, our only interest is to run our dogs, let our dogs do what they were born to do, kill the deer that they work hard to find and run. Our goal is to harvest meat and have fun doing it with all of our friends that share that joy of listening to dogs sing on the wind. Still hunters, not all but most, are out for the trophy. They are mostly solitude people who sit up in a stand for hours on end all decked out in their camo and scent cover waiting on a deer to amble out in front of them and pick them off before they even know what hit them. Productive but where is the sport? Where is the story that you can hand down to your kids? Where is the intelligence that a hunter claims to have? I am a proud dog hunter, and my heart beats for the next time I hear my dogs open up and start singing their hearts out "I am coming, I am on your track!!!" Hunting deer with dogs, I know is coming to an end, but through this message board my hope is to get enough of awareness out there that people who do not dog hunt will at least change their mind enough not to raise so much uproar that we loose our right to hunt...I mean is it really fair to us to take our away all of our joy just to please one side? Cant we find a neutral ground where dog hunting will not be banned?

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from DC Blue wrote 4 years 26 weeks ago

Just to let you know we had opening day of deer hunting in North Carolina yesterday. The weather was glorious. The pack in good voice and the game active. The camaradeship of the hunting club was in high spirits. Overall, a great day in the field. I still hunt and dog hunt and find pleasure in both.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 25 weeks ago

HOW ABOUT SOME PICS !

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from steelheader wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

I grew up hunting with dogs as well in West Virginia but don't think it's much of a sport compared to the skills needed to stalk a bih whitetail.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 19 weeks ago

My home state is a Dog Hunting state. I grew up with the sound of walkers, beagles and blueticks baying and runnin deer.
My recent experiences with the dog runners is that they will run their dogs thru other peoples property to run a deer their way. It has affected my hunts when I've still hunted private property where dogs appear baying and running deer close to my hunting area.

Though I do not disagree with the use of dogs I do do disagree with them left out overnight, running on other property, I almost hit atleast 8 dogs last year driving to /from my hunting area. I've found hunting dogs that were emaciated, in piss poor shape as well throughout my years hunting my home state.

The owners have the responsibility to maintain the health and welfare of their dogs.

It's also the owners responsibility to keep track of their dogs and not run them on other peoples property to ensure they get a deer run to the adjacent property they are on.
Especially if they know someone else is hunting the other property.
MUTUAL RESPECT!

I own a walker hound I plan to use her to track not run deer, rabbit etc and she goes in the woods with me and leaves with me!

I go out of my way to return a hound or any animal to its rightful owner if found by me. And I've found and returned 2 dogs this year alone. But some of the owners don't seem to give a sh#t about their dogs.

Not knocking you or other dog hunters ... Like I said I grew up around the sights and sounds of them runnin and baying. It still gets your blood goin and breaks up the monotany of a long days hunt... but it should be done more responsibly.

Traditions are important and ensuring traditions are passed on are more important good luck and I hope you continue to pass on your tradition and can continue to get the blood pumpin by the sound of hounds hot on a trail. Do it responsibly.

I dislike hunt clubs.. bad experiences with them.. but thats another story.

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from deerslayer1234 wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I have never used dogs for deer, nor will I ever. As long as it is done legally I won't tell you not to, but it seems a little unfair to the deer.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I have seen a group of good walker dogs run deer thirty miles and believe me have people trying to cut them off at every turn and until someone shoots the deer they are not going to stop,they will be strung out over many miles as the slower and older dogs fall out.It's work to dog hunt.I no longer live in the area but it's my heritage.Used dogs to catch hogs,tree squirrels and rabbits and to duck hunt along with some pointers to quail hunt with.It' a culture

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

257ack... Sounds like you had an issue with a hunt club like one around here that thought the property adjacent to their lease was theirs to hunt too.

They'd try to run other hunters that had written permission off the adjacent property.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

alabamoutlaw: you're right it's a culture and a heritage

Walkers, Blueticks both breeds and many others will run a deer into the next county if they can. They are bred to run and built for it.

I don't run deer with my Walker but I do use her to pick up a trail. I'd rather she run rabbit they atleast stay in the general area of where they're flushed.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Dogs are not only a means of hunting but are a companion in the camp and memories are relished years after the animals demise.Different areas of our greatly diverse nation have to improvise in hunting tactics that were implemented during colonial times and some see no reason to change these tactics.I have been on deer slips and it is ethical by all means,No high fences and surely not like the domestic elk hunts on the Outdoor channel.I know when i am crawling in a hog pen and not just crossing a fence.To each his own as long as no law are broken.
Alabamaoutlaw

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

You know what tellin someone their tradition is wrong if they are doing it within the laws, and responsibly then you're no better than the anti's tellin us hunting and fishing is cruel and should be banned.

Alabamaoutlaw has some valid points. What if deer dogs are banned and then next waterfowl, rabbit,fox, turkey, squirrel, coon and bird dogs because once you open one can of worms next thing you know it's all comin undone.

We are losing public lands to hunts, access to public rivers to hunt and trap on, and we are losing farm land that we used to hunt on.
We are also losing the older and younger generations in our hunting heritage. Traditions are not being passed on.

Deer hunting with dogs has been around for generations not only in the US but Europe as well.
I personnaly do not deer hunt with dogs Though I have a Walker hound that's parents are deer dogs. She does / will be used to get on a trail but not run unless it's rabbit.

I've got kin that have hunted with dogs and I've grown up around it. Beagles runnin rabbit will spook deer just as bad as a Bluetick, Walker, Red Bone or other deer dog will.

To each their own as long as it is done within the limits of the law and responsibly.

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from 257ack wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The link to ban dog hunting that is referenced above states that "Loose dog bear hunting is illegal in" (goes on to name several states) This is absolutly correct. That particular Whereas does not reference deer dogs

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from Dakotah Dan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thanks for the link. I forwarded it to my daughter who attends a college in NC. She's pretty politically active so she might get something going on campus.

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from alabamaoutlaw wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I'm with you 86RAM our politicans make the rules from the capitol.None are hunters and make the rules on where they get the money.Not from the ones that buy these license and are in thefield and really know what going on in the field.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I get frustrated when deer dogs out in front of my truck or are in the middle of the road or they run a deer out in the road.
I also get frustrated when other HUNTERS show total lack of respect and either drive into or walk into an area you're hunting.Therefore I choose to hunt PRIVATE PROPERTY even though it has even happened there and this year.
But they are hunting LEGALLY! in some cases..
I also don't agree with the dog hunters using excuses like dog retreivel to go on other peoples property without permission from the owner. To me that is trespassing.

I don't understand the willingness to blame the dogs. It's the owners responsibility. The dog is doin what it is trained to do.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Alabamoutlaw I think you are right Sir. Great story too.

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