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This is in response to a picture posted on this website of a slaughtered wolf. Killing wolves is wrong and I am appalled and disgusted at this picture! HOW dare you? How could you possibly kill something so beautiful and innocent?
As you certainly know, your viewpoint will find no sympathy on this forum. And, probably a number of folks will respond telling you why you are wrong, misguided, etc., so I won't bother with that.
But since you've made your statement and I have read it, perhaps you would satisfy my curiousity by answering a few questions? I'm curious to know first, is it only wolves you are concerned with or are their other animals that you consider innocent and should not be killed?
Second, do you consider yourself to be an environmentalist? If so, how does saving wolves fit into your overall view of conservation?
Third, do you think that vegetarianism is the most appropriate dietary practice?
Finally, and this is only to satisfy my curiousity not to start an argument, in relation to one of the most significant social/political issues of our day, would you consider yourself to be "pro-life" or "pro-choice"?
Looking forward to your responses.
You will always be welcome to your opinion on here. We ask that you respect our opinion that killing wolves is a sound scientific practice to control wildlife populations.
Carney, I'd like to see those answers too. I doubt they are forthcoming.
We have been killing wolves for as long as both species have been around. It was part of the natural balance and wolves naturally adjusted to it or they wouldn't have survived. Yes, they almost didn't because of unrestricted hunting, but now, thanks to our intervention, they have recovered. Apparently, it is time for us to resume our natural role. For a while anyway. I would much rather see hunting restored and the wolves kept wild than watching them become some sad semi-domesticated neighborhood nuisance like the foxes and coyotes are in many localities.
I don't hunt wolves and bears because I don't need or want their meat or their hides. But I don't condemn those that do. They are doing what I know needs to be done.
I read the article in the print edition of the magazine and also have a question. How about the decimation brought on the elk herds in the areas where the wolves are coming back? How about the ranchers who are losing $$$ to them in livestock loss? I have a friend who lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 ewes to the coyotes and bears and he is a small operator who can't afford such losses. Predators need to be controlled like any other game species and should be managed by thoughtful biology, not emotion.
Who is going to save the elk, deer, and other wildlife that the wolves ravage. I can tell you that when I kill a deer its quick and humane when a wolf does it well its not so pretty. Every body wants to save the wolves and and take pictures of the wolves well they are here and I know of no one to take pictures of your so called cute puppy dogs. The wolve hav spun the fish game in in a downward sprial from loss sales in tags and licenses. So if you love them so bad I will gladley drop 10 or 20 in your back yard for you and then you can tell us how wonderfull they are after they tear you family dog apart and run down the cute kid down the street.
nice carney. Too bad the troll will probably not come back.
Gentlemen, having read past post from all of you, I know that you are all intelligent individuals with well thought out opinions garnered by either education, or life experience, or both. However, I would like to point out that when we dignify a post such as this with a reply, we only fuel the fire of the troll. Clearly, this comment was posted on this particular forum to elicit a reaction from us. We are not going to sway the opinion of the troll, but our remarks, taken out of context, or edited, may be used to advance his/her/it's/their cause.
I quote from her post:
"Killing wolves is wrong and I am appalled and disgusted at this picture! HOW dare you? How could you possibly kill something so beautiful and innocent?"
Do you think any logic or reason will actually change the mindset
of one who is so totally immersed in Disney like fantasy? Please, a complaint to the online editors, or just totally ignoring the provocation of trolls will be much more effective.
CRM, well put! The more you stir a pile, the more it stinks. I won't stir it anymore and will try not to be drawn into another pile like this. Thanks for the reminder.
wolf? what wolf??
You are right CRM. However, this person has changed my look on life. I will never kill again. Not even a poor little tomato. They are living as well ya know.
Crm 3006, we had a healthy population of timber wolves in Idaho which are not as agressive as the Canadian grey wolf. They kept to themselves and only killed what they needed, the grey wolf is a differant story all together. I appreciate oppinion.
haha looks like someone's trying to stir the pot a little. I will not respond to the comment, however i will direct you to IDAHOOUTDOORS's blog containing all of the negative emails he received about the first Idaho wolf hunt: http://wolfcomments.blogspot.com/
As you can see what you are attempting is nothing new, and it has no effect on this community.
its realy a shame like you say why do people go to sights that they know they will find pics that are offensive to them?
do they realy think that a hunter is going to read a peta coment and say " oh no i did not realize all this time that when i shoot some thing it dies , i beter stop doing this"
the hunter was there he or she knows what happend and why they did it
so I would have to say if you dont want to see hunting pics dont go to hunting web sights. yes it realy is that simple , if you dont like dont look for it.
hunters have the decentcy to stay off vegan sights so why cant vwgans and peta lovers stay off this type of sight?
I have gone full circle to now believe that reintroducing wolves to most of the lower 48 was the abosolute wrong thing to do.
Here we go again
CRM = I only respond for the points.
Just kidding -- points haven't gotten me anything that I know of so far. But it actually helps me develop my ideas better to write out thoughts that I would say if I was engaged face to face with someone. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't.
Lets put it this way anti.....
1. we dont kill any more wolves.
2. the population goes up.
3. the wolves run out of food becuase there are so many of them they eat all the deer,elk,ext.
4.they start eating all the humans.
Now my question to you (which you will probably not answer):What do we do?
I just want to say that if you read my posts on "Study Says Elk Have Fewer Calves Around Wolves" in Field Notes, I did not post this. LOL. I just respectfully disagree with our bleeding-heart friend SavetheWolves on hunting wolves as well as our dutiful contributing friend MLH on reintroduction. I could be wrong on reintroduction and I reserve the right to be wrong.
"""I am appalled and disgusted at this picture! HOW dare you? How could you possibly kill something so beautiful and innocent""""
LOL.....I can see that you have no concept of the balance of wildlife....
I have never hunted a wolf for sport because I dont want to eat one,,,although it would make a nice full body mount...But I see no problem with a controlled hunt on wolves to control their numbers,In the past the wolf population wasnt ever a real problem because there was a larger abundance of elk,deer,ect ect and mainly the vast herds of bison that roamed the country ,the wolves took the old and dying...the enormous bison herds of the past will never again be seen by anyone in this country.......since the bison were almost wiped out by the idiots of the past,the wolves and cougars turned to livestock,and those idiots of the past posted open season on wolves,cougars and almost wiped them right off the face of the earth..uncontrolled hunting also led to reductions in numbers of elk ,deer and other game....Now we are no longer idiots,we understand about animal populations and the balance that must be maintained between predator and prey to preserve all wild species......Wolves breed faster and in greater numbers than deer,elk ect....and since the elk,deer do not have the vast territory they once had ,the number of wolves must be controlled or we will see those animals fade out as well,and then all that is left for the wolf is livestock,people,pets and small children.........its a fact that animal numbers must be controlled in order to preserve all the wildlife.....
I know this entire post will go ignored by you,,because you are probably one of those PETA-like people who attach human emotions and qualities to animals... yes they are beautiful animals but when their food source dwindles to almost nothing that beautiful and innocent animal will have no problem ripping your 6 year old child into bite sized bloody chunks....and who would you blame then??....
Personally Myself I would blame the anti-hunting morons who allowed the numbers of wolves to increase to a lethal level....
Candice Berner, 32, was killed by wolves while jogging near Chignik Lake, Alaska three weeks ago. Are you going to be the one to tell her family and friends how innocent they are?
Sorry Jwallen,,,BUT YES the wolves were innnocent,they did not attack and kill her out of anger,hate,malice,or prejudices..she was not killed for money,she was not killed for her car,it was not a random act of murder or violence for no reason,,she was killed for only one of two reasons as prey by a hungry predator...or by a predator protecting their territory...
..Animals do not reason between right and wrong,good or evil,,,they reason only between survival or death...To imply that the animals were guilty of anything is to attribute human qualities to them which do not apply...animals are neither good nor evil,right or wrong,they are just animals acting on primitive instinct....To hate or dislike any animal because it follows its nature and acts like an animal really shows how small minded many people are....
"KILLING WOLVES IS WRONG" - it is? So when two wolf packs meet each other and fight for territory are they "wrong" if they kill a memeber of the opposing pack?
We just returned from a wolf hunt in Ontario and I can tell you this..the wolves up there have found that it is easier to survive where there are people because the food is easy to get.
I hunted 5 minutes from town and saw 9 wolves in just the short time I was there. We saw a total of 13 wolves on the hunt.
The locals are losing house cats and dogs almost daily. Pretty scarey stuff if you are a jogger or a child waiting for a school bus.
Killing wolves to maintain a healthy balance is certainly not a wrong approach. We have re-introduced the wolf, for better or worse, and now we have to be adult enough to realize that they travel in packs and are tremendous predators and that very few animals can stand up to their assaults. If left unchecked the results could be disaster for humans as well as wildlife and domestic stock.
Deerslayer 76, have you ever been lying in a sleeping bag and gotten the strange sensation of something watching you and opened your eyes to see a wolf looking down at you? Fifteen miles from any other human being and there is only a moment between whether he takes you or leaves. I don’t hate wolves, I don’t fear wolves but I respect wolves and they must respect me. When any large predator is not hunted they will loose their respect for humans. Yes you are correct that the word innocent should not have been used. They are wolves that lost their fear of humans and through need or opportunity chose to see a human as prey. They are very intelligent and a challenging animal to hunt. Given the right conditions they reproduce quickly and can be taken on a sustainable basis. Do I want to see every wolf killed? No but if the hunt is legal and in accordance with sound wildlife management practices there is no reason that we can’t take them.
Savethewolves thinks he knows wolves, he doesn’t.
Carney, thank you for your intelligent response to the initial post.
Heyu PETA lovewr get over it. If you were an avid hunter or farmer you will see why they have seasons on wolves and people slaughter them. Iw ill give yuou a piece of advise. You don't post KILLING WOLVES IS WRONG on a site that doesn't like PETA or people who think killing wolves is wrong. They destroy elk and deer popululation, and kill cows and other livestock. It should be up to us hunters to hgunt elk and deer to control the population. There is enough of us to take care of it. Yes you are entitled to your own opinion but take elsewhere, NOT ON FIELD AND STREAM!!!!!!!!!
I would also like to point out that Field & Stream should be proud of the open forum they allow. The person who posted this is likely a PETA supporter, possibly a member. I'm not sure if any of you has ever tried to make a post on a PETA supported site, but if you have, you know all too well that even a completely unbiased, fair, open discussion post that sides towards hunting conservation methods, will NEVER be allowed by moderators to post on the site. Absolutely no open discussion is allowed. You either agree with their beliefs or you are not allowed to speak. It's childish, cowardly, and pathetic. With the long track record PETA has of getting destroyed in court battles where they actually have to provide evidence of their claims, it's quite apparent why they would not want to attempt to actually answer any of the questions we have, or engage in dialogue of any sort. They scream their views from the mountain tops and have nothing to back them up, and would rather run and hide than have an open discussion on the topic.
Today's society has a very interesting relationship with nature...mostly they don't understand it. I find it funny when people who support the preservation of large carnivores, do not support having them in their back yards. I also find it funny that those who hunt wolves put more money into wolf conservation and preservation than all of the activist groups combined. I'm not a fan of hunting or killing wolves because they are such a magnificent and intelligent species...man's best friend, and hunting partner for thousands of years. However, there is a need to balance the needs of wildlife with the needs of people, so if a few wolves must die to preserve the species as a whole, then so be it.
may i ask u savethewolves, why are you here? this is a hunting site u should expect it. do u feel you are helping peta by posting here? no im sorry your not. I could go into detail about killing an animal and make u puke but i wont. why? cuz i have respect. i dont go to animal rights sites and post hunting storys do i? no. u are a disgrace to your group!
I just love when these kooks whose only experience with wolves is the picture on their Sierra Club calendar lecture those of us who live among the wolves and suffer their predations.
I have no hands on experience with wolves but I have done extensive reading and studying about our wildlife over the years in relation to my career. As I have studied , wolves have no natural enemies in modern times except man so unless man controls the population the wolves will eventually wipe their own species out. This is not just a bunch of BS but scientific facts. I have found it difficult to debate with someone who cannot accept scientific facts and results of scientific studies done by professional people. These people want to try to debate using the warm fuzzy feeling syndrome to try to get their point accross. When they see a dead animal from hunting or a natural cause they get a teary knee jerk reaction with no facts to back up their crying misguided statements. Without some sort of interdiction by qualified wildlife personnel to set up hunting seasons to control the wolf populations they will spiral out of control and humans will be at risk. I don't know what flavor of hikers or tree huggers the wolves like best.
First off I would like to say that I am an avid hunter and fisherman and am totally for hunting of wolves. I really dont know where to start. First I will adress the author, I agree that wolves are wonderful animals and it pains me to see them killed. But so does all the hunting that I do, I do feel a little sad every time I shoot a duck. Remember tho that humans can have that sort of feeling and sit here with huge philosophical arguments about right and wrong. You are entitled to your opinion but in the words of Montgomery Gentry "You do your thing, I'll do mine." Second. It seems to me that this is a debate that has raged for over 100 years regarding wolves. Wolves were nearly exterminated and were sucessfully extripated from many states that they once roamed. This due to the active attempts of farmers to wipe them out using guns, traps, poison, and any other means available. Less to do with hunting and more to do with "progress." Third, although the concepts of predator/prey symbiosis discussed a number of times in this thread are not wrong . . . they do fall short of the complexity of ecological systems. In any ecosystem there is an energy pyramid where the energy available decreases towards the top (where the top level predators are). Predators respond to increaseing prey numbers numerically, meaning as prey increase so do predator numbers. The idea that the wolves even have the ability to destroy themselves is wrong. When a species colonizes a new area (or is reintroduced) the population will increas until it reaches its carrying capacity and then remain constant bases on the resources available. Wolves even will kill members of their own pack to keep the size down. When a pack becomes too large it will fracture into several smaller packs and they will establish new territories. Predators and prey are connected numerically and have been for millions of years. If we want to hunt wolves to help keep them from moving to new areas thats fine. Finally, the organizations such a PETA were discussed several times in previous threads. We have to be very careful about our rights and priveleges. These people are absoulutly not going to stop until no animal is ever killed by man for any reason and we all all are vegetarians. They are motivated, organized, passionat, and very political. Much of this country has absolutely lost touch with reality and our roots as a nation. We sportsmen must be ready to defend our passions against these people because they can be lost.
killing wolves isn’t bad,and isn’t cruel..it may be a sad thing to see an animal slaughtered but thats obviously not a very humane way to do the job.
wolves, although beautiful are VERY destructive to deer,antelope, and elk herds. That is not to say that they should be hunted to extinction,but that they should be controlled so as not to throw the ecosystem out of balance. Everything in moderation. And finally, wolves are not slaughtered. they are hunted in a sportsman like manner, they are HUNTED Not Slaughtered.
Hmm. I suggest y'all check out deerfear.com. This guy is sworn to call out everybody. it's crazy.
we should kill a few wolves because that keeps their population in check
wolves killing deer is wrong too. less wolves=more deer
Why is OK for a deer or wolf to starve to death, freeze to death, or get savagely torn apart by other wolves, but somehow a quick humane kill made by a human (animal) hunter is unacceptable?
To the creator of this post,
Grow up. Until you go out and try hunting then you have no business coming here and telling us that our ways are wrong. Hunting is a spiritual experience and requires a level of respect for the outdoors and animals that you probably will never achieve. You saying that is really what's wrong here
Right on Uncle Ted, +1 well said
It's pathetic these arm chair expert know it all think they know best! Has anybody actually lived in Alaska and witnessed a Moose being brutally killed then a week later the pack never touched it except a few bears, fox's and ravens! I witnessed alot and at 700 yards, my 338 Win Mag works fantastic on spanking these critters!
Uncle Ted, you and I can play "Dueling Big Bores in outreach major"! It's a really big hit with our Troops with those 50's!
By the way, the average Bull to square mile is 1 Bull Moose to 8 square miles. That was when they had wolf control!
Once again, those pinheads along with the rest here should read up on the following links, perhaps you will learn something!
Read these links about the Kaibab and it will change the way you think and give you factual knowledge in conservation.
I think it's really funny how this guy doesn't have the stones to respond to any of our questions, because he knows what we would say back. This guy should just man up and say why he thinks wolves don't deserve to be killed.- So that we can yet again outsmart him with ease.
It’s interesting how God made critters so beautiful with all those dazzling colors, yet so deadly! Wasn't meant to be beautiful, those are the warning signs leave it the hell alone!!
Arrow frogs come to mind, here's your sign!
Cooper for president!!!
I like your style clay, say what's on your mind and don't care who it upsets.
O'HOLD ON DAR MPN!
I don't know about President, but I do know for a fact I can do a far better job than Obama!
Right now I would surround myself with those who know and most of all cherish the History and what our Founding Fathers stood for, not how to work around and to pervert the Constitution!
Anyone remember that picture of some fella holding the only remains the head of his dog eaten by wolves?
Beautiful and innocent?
You really want me to got dar!
You can't fix stupid so why argue with it?
How could a wolf kill something so lovely and innocent as a spring lamb?
For Mature Audience only!
It's pathetic how the loony tunes will see false beauty in such a perfect killing machine. Killer Whales look so beautiful I agree, but like wolves, they kill for the sport just for the hell of it!!
GO SUCK AN ARROW FROG!
To all who post here.....
Save the wolves is a kid from the UP of Michigan,has no clue about the west. Want proof, go to newwest.net, my family has land in NW Montana, I started posting on the eurotrash,worms first newwest site when I-161 came about in Montana,(trapping ban attached to I-161) Then the wolf BS started on said site, I argued with this kid for days,as did some others who actually live where these people want more wolves/no control.
You can post all the facts you want,if they don't fit his views,they are wrong, the author is anti-wolf,or some other BS.
I may be temporarily in Ohio,but I will be back home in a couple months,if you want to read the arguments many of us made check it out,I post as mountain hunter there.
This kid and company are way out there,want more wolves everywhere,say we oppose it because we only care about hunting elk,which according to him we have no right to do.
Other than that,somethin good became of being stuck in Ohio this year, got a 51" muskie at 7pm yesterday.
Those are powerful photos CC.
That's nothing to what I have witnessed!
Both the Orca and the Wolf is natures ultimate killing machine!
Here's one for ya' so cute!
Good stuff, especially Carney!
"go suck an arrow frog"
Exactly what this savethewolves needs to do.
When he started posting on the newwest site,that's to be expected,it is an anti-hunting/anti-trapping,hunters have no right to kill game on public lands,ect. kind of site. I only found it due to a link from another site,while doing research on I-161,and the trapping ban.
Every logical argument was given to him,links to facts,info from the state sites,from RMEF,and he claims they are all wrong,that we should not be able to hunt,that all the game is for wolves to eat. The worst thing is,this kid has no connection at all to the state of Montana,and acts like it affects him somehow that a wolf is killed,legally,in Montana,and in Idaho,while he is in Michigan.
Can we find arrow frogs in Michigan?
How could you possibly kill something so beautiful and innocent?
now thats funny.
wake the hell up leave the cave and get some sun light at least once a day and lay off the home grown smoke. a wolf is a killer and a pest its innocent of nothing in my op .
so killing wolves in the lower 48 states is now legal , when it has only been like 10 yrs since we reintroduced the first pack into Yellowstone, T Hey did this cause we killed all wolves off in the 1800-1900s here, why are they being slaughtered again, they naturally are drawn to man , if they were not we would not have dogs i can't ind an area that is legal to hunt wolves , they allow tags not truckloads
We just got back from a wolf hunt and if you want to see what we got in to, go to Mike Avery's Face Book page and have yourself a good read.
It is unbelievable what a person will say to another human being because they shot a wolf.
I saw first hand what a pack of wolves will do to an elk and it sickens me. People think because they are "pretty" they are like a dog and they are anything but. They are true predators and the numbers must be kept in check.
They are moving in to towns and taking dogs right off of their chains leaving nothing but the collar. It won't be long before it is a child waiting for the bus.
I have pictures to prove the devastion of these animals and what they are capable of. I watched as they pushed a huge bull elk to the edge of a cliff and the only reason he got to live was because the wolves saw us. I have seen how they push them out onto the ice and literally eat the elk alive. The wolves make a hole in the side of the animal and only eat the warm internal parts. The rest is left for the birds.
Maybe this would be a good article for the magazine but don't sugar coat it. Show the pictures and the devastation. Print the real numbers and show the decline in the elk, moose and sheep.
Check out Mike's page, that ladies comment mirrors the one on this site. Mike fired right back at her too.
The animal rights person who made that comment must be from New Jersey. The NJ Animal Rights Groups came out in hundreds to protest the New Jersey bear and coyote hunts. We don't have any wolves but they would protest that if we did.
In December 2005 members of these animal rights groups follow hunters while they were bear hunting. They sang Christmas Carols and they would screem out there is a woodpecker. They follow hunters all day in the mountains, woods or swamp they were on a mission. I learned one thing, an anti hunter will never change a hunter and a hunter will never change an anti hunter. A true Mexican standoff.
Guys please don't feed the trolls. whoever savethewolves is they have only posted this one comment. so they are just looking for attention dont give it to them.
We should kill them all, who knows, one may be a werewolf.
Here in Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota the growing wolf population has become a problem. Under the Federal Endangered Species act our states had very little latitude in controlling the problems caused by wolves. Now that the wolves endangered status has been down graded to fully recovered it allows our states to control wolf populations to co-inside with the populations of other wildlife and people. Hunting seasons are being proposed in these states as the most effective tool for controlling the wolf populations just as we use hunting and trapping to control the populations of other wildlife. No one is talking about eradication. Since the states have proposed to have a controlled hunting season you guessed it animal rights groups armed with a campaign of misinformation to stoke up clueless tweerps like this is in full force. It doesn't take much just a few pictures with a caption that reads like an old first grade primer; See the dead wolf dead, dead, dead, see the bad hunter bad, bad, bad, you get the picture. Forget about reasoning with these people they run on emotions not common sense. As for myself I'm going to apply for a wolf hunting license when they become available. As to the question of how can I kill a wolf it's easy a well placed shot in the vital area should do the trick.
Ill respond to your nonsense with this nonsense and sarcasm, say some punk teenagers go out and put bullet proof vests on all those wolves then you got invincible wolves, running around eating your cats and chasing your children, you'll be yelling someone get all these wolves outta here! well we cant, there protected plus you took away our special weapons,
Uploaded on March 24, 2010?
Whipping another dead Wolf (horse)!
This is obviously just some one who found this picture and website by googling something like dead wolf got p!$$€d off and created an account simply to make this post. Hence the name savethewolfs. I'm not going to pay this hippie any attention.
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