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Hunting

It's beyond time to stop the madness!!

Uploaded on January 26, 2009

What's it going to take to delist wolves? They are showing up in places that they weren't intended to be. We have confirmed sightings in the southern part of Idaho where, to my knowledge,they never lived before. When are the enviro-nuts going to let well enough alone. The outdoor sportsmen in this country know how to "manage" the wildlife in our respective states and it doesn't mean wholesale slaughter like they want the uninformed to believe. We can and should be allowed to manage this animal as well. They've rebounded so well that they will probably never be eradicated again.There are a lot of people losing money to these predators, and not just outfitters and livestock ranchers. Gas station and grocery store owners, sporting goods stores, cafes and restaraunts. All are being affected because we don't have the people (resident and non-resident alike)spending their hard earned $$$ to go hunting in areas where the wolves are supreme.

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from herbie57_57 wrote 5 years 12 weeks ago

Well first you need some people in government who understand what all is happening instead of people who avoid learning what is going on.

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from victorytw228 wrote 5 years 12 weeks ago

And then you need people who will act on that understanding and not just twiddle their thumbs!

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from sere9501 wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

This sounds to me a lot like politicians who make military decisions without ever having served. Unless you are out there have done it, you will not truly know the heart of the matter. There are a lot of bunny-huggers here in Washington state and the same thing has happened up here in the past ten years. "Don't kill, trap, or harm the wolves!" Then when little Fluffy dies, they wonder why someone didn't do something about it.

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from dwaynez wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

I am all for protecting an animal when it's needed, but from everything i have read the wolves need to be removed, if you over protect they will cause more damage.

The need to see some actual footage and statements from people who have been negatively impacted by the action of these wolves so they can make a decision that is based on facts and figures.

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from Brutus3542 wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

People need to take a step back and think. Wolves should be managed just like other game animals. When there are too many then a season should be reopened and when there are too few then the season should be more limited. Since the wolves population is starting to get to large then the season should reopen. I think it should be a limited hunt to start with but some progress in the right direection is better than nothing at all.

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from Carney wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

You think this is bad -- better hope the Y2Y project doesn't gain any ground!!! Check out this website http://eastkootenay.blogspot.com/search/label/Y2Y (even though it is a Canadian blog) and then check to see if your own state has legislation pending. In Washington State it is SB 5064. I emailed my Senator who responded with "seems pretty innocuous. What's your beef?" I sent him to that website and he was shocked to see what it was really all about and the sweeping impact.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from marceaton wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

Just a little tid bit of information for everyone. The Endangered Species Act requires any animal to be inhabited on all of its historic home range or a greater portion thereof. This is obviously impossible to achieve in this day and age. Wolves did naturally occur in all of Idaho and a significant portion of the entire united states. Wolves have been coming back strong and they ARE being delisted in Montana and Idaho as of a few weeks ago and will be full steam ahead in a month or two. The only reason they haven't been delisted in Wyoming is because Wyoming can't seem to figure out how to write a descent management plan and they haven't proven that there are seperate genetic populations between Yellowstone wolves and other wolves in the area. Obviously law suits can hold up the process. I agree its about time wolves were taken off the list but saying that wolves are ruining our hunting is just ignorant. Monana has an estimated population of 422 wolves and 130,000 to 160,000 elk. This is the third year of record elk populations recorded in the state of Montana. If the wolves were decimating the big game populations then how exactly do we have more elk than EVER before in this state. Ranchers get paid for any livestock that has been proven to be prayed upon by wolves. The economy has not been taking a hit because of wolves its because of bad politics. Brutus3542 said it perfectly, we will get our season and wolf haters can finally pull the trigger on one, but like any other game animal proper management must be exicuted to ensure the well being of the species.

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from wally wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I think the extremists have the political sympathetic ear. Politicians and all Americans need to be educated in wildlife management and carrying capacity. If this continues other animals will have to go on the list, elk and moose.

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from marceaton wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

To say that elk and moose will have to go on the Endangered Species List at this point in time is just plain ignorant. If you had any education in wildlife management or carrying capacity you would not be saying that. According to your comments I believe you belong in the "extremists" group you speak of.

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from Christian Emter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I hate wolves. Tehy are no good.

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I will say I agree that the wolves should be taken off the endangered list.

There seems to be a huge... like ten year+ delay between talking about these things and doing them, though. How 'bout them Canadian geese? Huh? Endangered my... um... tookus. We're up to our armpits in them. That took a while to decide.

And in North Carolina, in my area, coyotes are eating pets. We've never been known for coyotes. My cat doesn't go out any more.

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from s-kfry wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Last week I saw an article on the nightly news, a female wolf from Yellowstone is now known to be roaming just north of I-70 in western Colorado (they have a tracking collar on her). I can only assume that this means that she has some friends with her. I don't have a problem with wolves per se, certainly Rocky Mountain National Park could use a couple to stop the ecological damage the elk are doing but my real concern is that if we have reintroduced wolves we need to make sure that livestock owners have a right to shoot them on their property to defend their stock and livelihood.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 5 years 3 weeks ago

Wolves are becoming a problem here in WI Actually they already are. The fact that they do not cover their natural habitat fully, should not restrict different areas with way to many wolves to maage as they need to. I know it is money but why not trap where there are too many and take where they are not doing so well? WI for instance thier goal was 350 and it isestimated that the numbers are up over 550. Note one was getting ready to attack my dog unitl it saw me. If it did it would have died and I would have been in big trouble. I know it is just a dog, but what if it was a child and by law you need proof of infinate danger, so does that mean I have to let it attack my child first. I don't think so.

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from huntcamp wrote 5 years 3 weeks ago

We need to be able to remove problem wolves. Without delisting that is not possible.

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from ken.mcloud wrote 5 years 2 weeks ago

So, not to force too much science on anyone but there is no such thing as "too many wolves" ecologically speaking.

It is possible to have "too many deer" or "too many elk". This is because we have systematically exterminated predator species over the last century. Deer and elk populations would normally be limited by predators but without them, the populations grew to the level where they actually had a negative impact on the local vegetation.

Many hunting programs are targeted at culling this excess population. (this is where many of you get the misguided "hunter vs nature" notion, where we are intended to "manage" excess populations long-term)

This simply doesn't apply to wolves. This is because there is no analog to the exterminated-predator situation. If wolf populations were to grow "too large" then prey populations would rapidly fall. This would lead to the excess wolves dieing of starvation. This has not happened yet, therefore the wolf population is not "too large" ecologically speaking.

Now, it is possible for the wolf population to be too large based on your opinion. This is however your opinion, not scientific fact. You are entitled to your opinion, but conservation policy should be based on science, not opinions.

This does not mean us hunters do not have a place in a naturally functioning ecosystem. Populations go through natural cycles where they dip as winter or dropping prey populations cause individuals to die of starvation. Then, the population rebounds when spring comes around and fawns are born.

well managed hunting works by harvesting that excess population in the fall before winter gets the chance. Then, when spring rolls around the population is the same as if there were no hunters at all. This is acceptable because in a natural ecosystem, the populations limit themselves.

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from shane wrote 5 years 1 week ago

Showing up in places they weren't intended to be? Like where? Where are wolves not intended to be? Who is doing the intending? You? God? Mother Nature?

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from huntcamp wrote 5 years 1 week ago

Yes there is a such of a thing as too many wolves. In WI almost all wolves live north of HWY 64, which is no bigger than 1/3 of the state. It doesn't take much science when my eyes tell me the story. Wolves around northern WI are starting to become diseased, saw three diff wolves in on day with the mainge. Do not even tell me that they are not getting bolder. I literally walked from about 60 yards to 20 yards straight at a wolf laying down by a farmers calf barn. Wasn't much fear there. People keep losing dogs which sucks but is expected. Livestock are starting to fall. In northern WI money is very few and far between. Losing livestock is a huge deal. It is funny not always the case, but people who do not live around wolves think everything is hunky dorry and think people who live around and have real problems with wolves are just naive. In my "opinion" it is only a matter of time before a kid gets taken. I know they a wolf has never killed a person. that is because there is no proof. It is all too easy to blame other animals to better their cause. I have read on what it takes to document a wolf attack and it is rediculus. My eyes are the only science I need on this subject.

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from shehunter wrote 5 years 16 hours ago

They have even been spotted here in Northern Illinois!

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Post a Reply

from marceaton wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

Just a little tid bit of information for everyone. The Endangered Species Act requires any animal to be inhabited on all of its historic home range or a greater portion thereof. This is obviously impossible to achieve in this day and age. Wolves did naturally occur in all of Idaho and a significant portion of the entire united states. Wolves have been coming back strong and they ARE being delisted in Montana and Idaho as of a few weeks ago and will be full steam ahead in a month or two. The only reason they haven't been delisted in Wyoming is because Wyoming can't seem to figure out how to write a descent management plan and they haven't proven that there are seperate genetic populations between Yellowstone wolves and other wolves in the area. Obviously law suits can hold up the process. I agree its about time wolves were taken off the list but saying that wolves are ruining our hunting is just ignorant. Monana has an estimated population of 422 wolves and 130,000 to 160,000 elk. This is the third year of record elk populations recorded in the state of Montana. If the wolves were decimating the big game populations then how exactly do we have more elk than EVER before in this state. Ranchers get paid for any livestock that has been proven to be prayed upon by wolves. The economy has not been taking a hit because of wolves its because of bad politics. Brutus3542 said it perfectly, we will get our season and wolf haters can finally pull the trigger on one, but like any other game animal proper management must be exicuted to ensure the well being of the species.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carney wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

You think this is bad -- better hope the Y2Y project doesn't gain any ground!!! Check out this website http://eastkootenay.blogspot.com/search/label/Y2Y (even though it is a Canadian blog) and then check to see if your own state has legislation pending. In Washington State it is SB 5064. I emailed my Senator who responded with "seems pretty innocuous. What's your beef?" I sent him to that website and he was shocked to see what it was really all about and the sweeping impact.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Brutus3542 wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

People need to take a step back and think. Wolves should be managed just like other game animals. When there are too many then a season should be reopened and when there are too few then the season should be more limited. Since the wolves population is starting to get to large then the season should reopen. I think it should be a limited hunt to start with but some progress in the right direection is better than nothing at all.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from marceaton wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

To say that elk and moose will have to go on the Endangered Species List at this point in time is just plain ignorant. If you had any education in wildlife management or carrying capacity you would not be saying that. According to your comments I believe you belong in the "extremists" group you speak of.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from herbie57_57 wrote 5 years 12 weeks ago

Well first you need some people in government who understand what all is happening instead of people who avoid learning what is going on.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from victorytw228 wrote 5 years 12 weeks ago

And then you need people who will act on that understanding and not just twiddle their thumbs!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from sere9501 wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

This sounds to me a lot like politicians who make military decisions without ever having served. Unless you are out there have done it, you will not truly know the heart of the matter. There are a lot of bunny-huggers here in Washington state and the same thing has happened up here in the past ten years. "Don't kill, trap, or harm the wolves!" Then when little Fluffy dies, they wonder why someone didn't do something about it.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from dwaynez wrote 5 years 11 weeks ago

I am all for protecting an animal when it's needed, but from everything i have read the wolves need to be removed, if you over protect they will cause more damage.

The need to see some actual footage and statements from people who have been negatively impacted by the action of these wolves so they can make a decision that is based on facts and figures.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff Bowers wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I will say I agree that the wolves should be taken off the endangered list.

There seems to be a huge... like ten year+ delay between talking about these things and doing them, though. How 'bout them Canadian geese? Huh? Endangered my... um... tookus. We're up to our armpits in them. That took a while to decide.

And in North Carolina, in my area, coyotes are eating pets. We've never been known for coyotes. My cat doesn't go out any more.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from s-kfry wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Last week I saw an article on the nightly news, a female wolf from Yellowstone is now known to be roaming just north of I-70 in western Colorado (they have a tracking collar on her). I can only assume that this means that she has some friends with her. I don't have a problem with wolves per se, certainly Rocky Mountain National Park could use a couple to stop the ecological damage the elk are doing but my real concern is that if we have reintroduced wolves we need to make sure that livestock owners have a right to shoot them on their property to defend their stock and livelihood.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 5 years 3 weeks ago

Wolves are becoming a problem here in WI Actually they already are. The fact that they do not cover their natural habitat fully, should not restrict different areas with way to many wolves to maage as they need to. I know it is money but why not trap where there are too many and take where they are not doing so well? WI for instance thier goal was 350 and it isestimated that the numbers are up over 550. Note one was getting ready to attack my dog unitl it saw me. If it did it would have died and I would have been in big trouble. I know it is just a dog, but what if it was a child and by law you need proof of infinate danger, so does that mean I have to let it attack my child first. I don't think so.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 5 years 3 weeks ago

We need to be able to remove problem wolves. Without delisting that is not possible.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ken.mcloud wrote 5 years 2 weeks ago

So, not to force too much science on anyone but there is no such thing as "too many wolves" ecologically speaking.

It is possible to have "too many deer" or "too many elk". This is because we have systematically exterminated predator species over the last century. Deer and elk populations would normally be limited by predators but without them, the populations grew to the level where they actually had a negative impact on the local vegetation.

Many hunting programs are targeted at culling this excess population. (this is where many of you get the misguided "hunter vs nature" notion, where we are intended to "manage" excess populations long-term)

This simply doesn't apply to wolves. This is because there is no analog to the exterminated-predator situation. If wolf populations were to grow "too large" then prey populations would rapidly fall. This would lead to the excess wolves dieing of starvation. This has not happened yet, therefore the wolf population is not "too large" ecologically speaking.

Now, it is possible for the wolf population to be too large based on your opinion. This is however your opinion, not scientific fact. You are entitled to your opinion, but conservation policy should be based on science, not opinions.

This does not mean us hunters do not have a place in a naturally functioning ecosystem. Populations go through natural cycles where they dip as winter or dropping prey populations cause individuals to die of starvation. Then, the population rebounds when spring comes around and fawns are born.

well managed hunting works by harvesting that excess population in the fall before winter gets the chance. Then, when spring rolls around the population is the same as if there were no hunters at all. This is acceptable because in a natural ecosystem, the populations limit themselves.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 5 years 1 week ago

Showing up in places they weren't intended to be? Like where? Where are wolves not intended to be? Who is doing the intending? You? God? Mother Nature?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntcamp wrote 5 years 1 week ago

Yes there is a such of a thing as too many wolves. In WI almost all wolves live north of HWY 64, which is no bigger than 1/3 of the state. It doesn't take much science when my eyes tell me the story. Wolves around northern WI are starting to become diseased, saw three diff wolves in on day with the mainge. Do not even tell me that they are not getting bolder. I literally walked from about 60 yards to 20 yards straight at a wolf laying down by a farmers calf barn. Wasn't much fear there. People keep losing dogs which sucks but is expected. Livestock are starting to fall. In northern WI money is very few and far between. Losing livestock is a huge deal. It is funny not always the case, but people who do not live around wolves think everything is hunky dorry and think people who live around and have real problems with wolves are just naive. In my "opinion" it is only a matter of time before a kid gets taken. I know they a wolf has never killed a person. that is because there is no proof. It is all too easy to blame other animals to better their cause. I have read on what it takes to document a wolf attack and it is rediculus. My eyes are the only science I need on this subject.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from shehunter wrote 5 years 16 hours ago

They have even been spotted here in Northern Illinois!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from wally wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I think the extremists have the political sympathetic ear. Politicians and all Americans need to be educated in wildlife management and carrying capacity. If this continues other animals will have to go on the list, elk and moose.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Christian Emter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I hate wolves. Tehy are no good.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report

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