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The February issue's story on global warming was irresponsible. Please check out the following link
for a simple to follow lesson on climate change.
Its a theory, if its so warm, why is this the coldest winter in like 30 years for us?
Your story on global warming was undoubtedly the most important in the issue for the overall future of hunting and fishing in the U.S.
Maybe your readers will trust you enough to learn something from it. I notice that you didn't have the courage to feature it on the cover. It'll be interesting to see the state of the question in your magazine ten years from now, if print media still exists then. Anyway, thanks for publishing it. I'd love to hear these global warming deniers' reaction to the die off of western forests. Check out the video on the NY Times Science site.
I concur with Alex. If we are in a global warming state it would have been proven by the glacial studies that were conducted in Alaska in the ice fields. This study discounted the global warming theory. It was on a Discovery Channel special. Also, I think that we could have given the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE to someone more deserving than a crackpot with a theory that most of the scientific community, if they haven't been brainwashed doesn't agree with. A theory is a theory until it is proved and then becomes a proof. This is simple science and physics 101.
I think this whole global warming thing has to get back to common sense. If you have a cold room, the more people you put in it the warmer its going to get. 2000 years ago lets say there were only 1 billion people alive, not there are more than 6 billion and the number is rising. Now we have cars, planes and all sorts of stuff that puts out heat. Yes the world is going to get warmer. But also, does anyone remember floods, plagues, famine, drought, and all sorts of storms from say 2000-6000 years ago. It was all recorded in the Bible. Also if they want to blame global warming, why did the same types of things happen 30 or 50 or 70 or 100 years ago? When I moved up here everyone told me of the crazy storm of 50this or 60 that or way back when in 20this or 18hundred and something. It comes in cycles and if you don't want global warming, then the people who scream about it the most need to stop driving, stop using electricity and stop having children. We are all a part of the problem, its just up to us to be as responsible as we can. I personally like to drive and have electricity. If I didn't I couldn't have driven to work today and posted this :).
Alex, you ask a good question, one that has been asked by many people. I myself asked this question and was told that the term "Global Warming" has been replaced by "climate change". (Note the last term isn't capitalized) "Global Warming", it seems is an extremist term and NOBODY wants to be viewed as an extremist. But "climate change" gives the impression of a concerned citizen who just wants us all to think about what we are doing. Personally, I think it's a bunch of, to borrow from Col. Sherman Potter, "Buffalo Biscuits"!
Dude. think a minute. have you ever stood on a paved road during summer and felt the heat radiating off the blacktop? and have you then stepped into the woods at the side of the road where it's about ten degrees cooler? now, how many millions of square miles of forest have been replaced by heat retaining roads and buildings? and your saying this has no effect??
now i agree with sere that the earth has its own cycles and would go thru heating and cooling cycles even if humans didn't inhabit it. (and, it sure is true that GW is always worse when a republican is in office, isnt it?) you're right, its a damn cold winter, but you have to look at the long term. and the long term numbers show that we are getting warmer.
Global Warming is a complete joke! Since when did we trust our government when they wanted money. If a bunch of politicians say "hey you're all going to die if you dont start giving us money," we should assume that they're right. THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE! Also did you ever notice that anti-global warming viewpoints get absolutly no air time. In fact anti-global warming advocates have gotten FIFTEEN MINUTES air time on national news. Sound fishy? Sure does to me. I also read an article in American Snowmobiler Magazine in which the founder of the Weather Channel talks about "Global Warming" and guess what, he thinks it's the biggest joke in the world of climatology. He says that he has never heard anything more rediculous in his professional career. If you still believe in global warming read "State Of Fear" by the late Michael Crichton. Also I believe in climate change, but that it is completely natural. The earth's climate has been flucuating since its formation. Again, just because Mr. Gore says we should be afraid, that's probably and indicator that nothing is wrong. Politicians always lie, and always have an adjenda!
This is the biggest problem with getting people to understand global warming. Everyone thinks that it only means that things will get warmer. It will first cause changes in weather patterns and cause more extreme precipitation events. Things will turn into a rain forest before they turn into a desert. There are many scientific publications that you can review that show that global warming is infact real. For those of you wanting people to read "State of Fear" that book happens to be fiction so read away and while your at it read "Jurassic Park" (written by the same author) and get ready for the attack of the dinosaurs!! Until all you nay sayers actually read some scientific papers and studies don't pretend like you are the leading authority on climate change.
Just to add a few more comments, I understand that climate changes are normal throughout geologic time, however we are well above any fluctuations that occured in the past. We are do for a warming trend around now and the next ten thousand years but we are speeding things up and making them more severe by our day to day actions.
There have been noted changes in the climate over the last few years and you can look at past trends to see it is due again. We do need to make some changes to prevent these changes from becoming more obvious and more damaging to us all.
I appreciate the fact that articles like this are being presented because it allows everyone to see both sides of these issues, you can believe it or disbelieve the global warming issue.
The best thing to do is research it and take the time to really look at the issue in depth and then make a change if you feel you need to or ignore it, it's a choice each person has to make for themselves.
Marceaton, if you actually read the book, Crichton cites all his sources, which is about three pages long. Just read it, it probably would do you some good, start thinking for yourselves people instead of listening to the joke scientists who work for the U.N., and Al Gore. Once again i dont trust a politician any farther than I can throw one. And if you actually look at unskewed graphs, you'll note that the total change of temperature is less than a couple degrees celsius. HOW IS THAT GLOBAL WARMING? Yes climate change is happening, but its not global warming, and not man made!
Marceaton, if yould actually read State Of Fear, you would see that Crichton cites all the statements in the book, which sounds pretty legit, unlike the papers of your so called "scientists". Who are these people employed by, THE U.N. And why should we trust those people? Once again, think for yourselves! Just becasue U.N. scientists and actors (who by the way, don't even know the time of day, much less anything like climate changes) doesn't mean we should stop all forms of thinking and follow their way! Global Warming isn't happening and never has happened! Climate change is happening and we don't have anything to do with it! Icebergs are not melting because the ocean is warming up, but because the icebergs are actually expanding into warming waters. Also, polar bears are not dying off like everyone thinks. Like Ted Nugent says "the only polar bears that are dying are the ones infront of my bow" (Nugent, 2008)
Well there Mr. abmcp13 I have read the book, just because you cite research doesn't mean you are citing it correctly, thats the first thing you learn about research, never trust someone elses citations, read it yourself. I've read scientific papers on both sides of the story and have attended several of Steve Runnings (Nobel Peace Prize Laureate for researching global warming, currently at the University of Montana) courses, and by the way he does not work for the UN. I'm not trying to push global warming on anyone but I do think that if you are going to make an argument for or against it you are better off reading actual scientific research than quoting a fiction writer and a rock star (neither of which have any involvment in climate change research).
As I sat here reading all the replies, I could only think about one thing. How some of these people can honestly say that they dont believe that global warming is and effect caused by man.
In all honesty, think about how things were years and years ago. How simple everything was and how man NEEDED the land more then ever.
Now think about how it is in todays world. People look at the land as a place to not only desicrate but to destroy. Everyday there are new and more ways man figures out how to manipulate nature to make life "easier" for us.
There has been wars, disease, polution, nuclear testing, over-flowing landfills, forests being cleared for building construction and faster travle routes, the list could go on and on.
Now everybody has there own twist on who created life and all the creatures, Heaven and Hell, all that good stuff. But if I had to say there is one thing I honestly believe in and that is Mother Nature.
For years and years she has given us many gifts, from beautiful landscapes to the very gas we use to power our lives, she has been there to help. And with time, us as MAN, has taken those gifts forgranted!
Now Mother Nature has another plan. She is going on the defense. We have overlooked so many things for so many years, that it is all coming back to haunt us. Nobody wants to take the blame, nobody wants to take the time and effort to pay her back and she knows it. She knows how to restore herself and look after hefslef and that is what she is doing.
All these natural disasters are her way of "cleansing" herslef so to speak, to clean out the bad and start with new. To let us know that She, is and always will be, in control.
I think we need to step up and take responsibilty for what we have been doing over the years to our wonderful planet and take the actions to let Mother Nature do her job.
global warming is real face the facts it may have been cold this year but look at the downfall in ice in the northern and southern hemispheres.
This is a debate that will likely go on for a long time. Fortunately we will at some point find out for sure who was right. And whichever side you fall on bring your arguments to the table, just make sure you can support them with facts and evidence. You will never get anyone to agree with you by brow beating them. Make a clear statement and support it with facts. The more information we can bring to the discussion the better decisions we can make. And that is what we all should want, not just to be right but to come up with the best possible solution with the best possible outcome. Personally I hope we are not the cause of global climate change, I don't want to be responsible for a legacy of destruction and pollution that we will leave to our children and grandchildren. I don't want them to miss out on the things I take for granted the same way I have missed out on things previous generations took for granted. Endless herds of bison and flocks of passenger pigeons so immense they couldn't be counted. These are things we will never see again and it is because of the generations before us. So I urge you to think about the world we will leave to the future and not just what is going on today.
I agree with you very much golfing sportsman.
We really DO need to realize that there is going to be something that is going to happen with this global warming and like you, I dont want to be the cause either, Im sure none of us do.
And yes its sad to say that generations before us didnt take the right procautions to help aid in preserving our lands and animals, but that does not mean that we should fall into the same category.
I remember an old saying my father always said to us kids and I too us it now:
"I want you kids to be better then your ol' man. Dont follow my footsteps or walk my same path. Instead use them as a guide and create your own."
This is what needs to be done. Instead of blaming each other for our mistakes, we need to just take responsiblity for them and do what it takes to make them right.
I've heard all about the "world's gonna end in December --, 2012". What's that all about too?
I think the planets are aligning in 2012. My only question is, do the fish bite before or after a planet alignment?
Theory that 2012 will be the end of the world has to do with that time being the end of either the aztec or mayan calander i cant recall which. They say that during the day 12/21/12 there will be a cataclimic event that will change the world that me know. Yes i do believe that the events going on in our world today are man made. For example the fast paced extinction of many species, melting of polar ice caps, increase in ocean water temperature and global temperature. All of our fossil fuel emissions are causing the build up of greenhouse gases which are trapping UV rays in our atomosphere which is what i believe it calling all of this. But hey i also believe big foot too so take it or leave it.
1998 was either the warmest or closest to the warmist year in history according to some. 10 years later, after India and China have quadrupled their greenhouse gas productions and no one has cut back its snowing in the UAB and London. Its below zero in the north of north america and F&S has a new global warming scare out. If 98 was so hot because of co2, why is 2008 so cold after ten more years of co2 production? Please think of the tons, the hundreds of thousands of tons of co2 emitted since 98. How can that increase of co2 lead to a decrease in temp? What model would predict that? Please use logic vs emotion on this issue. Remember, people believed in the Cardiff Giant too.
I believe that this is just a cycle, but that we are speeding it up at the same time.
if you watch the show "Nostradamus" on the History Channel, apparently all the stars align in December 20-30 of 2012.
I have to ask, what is he Cardiff Giant?
The cardiff giant was a sensation in the 1800s in NY. The plaster giant was a money making fraud foisted upon a willing public about a giant human that was scientifically proven to have pre-existed modern man. Many supposed experts were fooled. The cardiff Giant made real money for its believers, but it was a hoax. Get my meaning now?
The author is that the science on this absolute and there is no doubt that this is occurring. That is absolutely nonsense. There used to absolute science that the world was flat and that if you sailed to far you would drop off the edge. It also used to be absolute that the earth was the center of the universe. Not too long ago it was also absolute that we were on the dawn of another ice age. It's a theory. Theory isn't fact the last time I checked. I live in Milwaukee and we just finished the 5th coldest January on record. In fact more and more scientists are rejecting this ridiculous claim. Global warming is a scare tactic used by the liberal left to get control of the economy and to be able to control people's behavior to their liking. I cannot believe that we believe predictions 100 years out from the same people that can't predict tomorrow's weather. It's an absolute travesty that Field and Stream would run an article like this. The same people that are perpetrating this lie are the same people that would love to put an end to the second amendment and our hunting and fishing privileges. Wake up to the lies people. It's time to start fighting back against this propaganda instead of marching like lemmings to the edge of the cliff into the ocean.
Why doesn't F&S do a story on Oil City Pa. The first oil well in the world, the Drake well, was drilled there 150 years ago this year. Incredible pollution followed, with vast deforestation and sickening water contamination. Pictures are availible. Old pipes and wooden vats are everywhere.
Today at least a dozen Bald Eagle nests are in the area. Trout ate in the streams. My inlaws killed a 10 & a 9 pt buck this past fall. That's the real American Story. Cut the crap on Global Warming and show young Americans the real story of this country.
Global-warming may be real but the political scare tactics are ridiculous. My super lib brother sent me this aarticle from F&S Feb issue... Shame on F&S for publishing this!
on another post, CJK wrote "It's an absolute travesty that Field and Stream would run an article like this. The same people that are perpetrating this lie are the same people that would love to put an end to the second amendment and our hunting and fishing privileges."
and to add to my/their disgust:
1) F&S did not list the author on this load of bull
2) The 11 items in the conclusion or "what we can expect" contain 16 statements that include the word "SHOULD", 6 with "MAY", 3 with "WILL LIKELY" and at least 2 with "SCIENTIST BELIEVE" statements...
3) BASICALLY NONE OF THIS IS FACTS, JUST GUESSES AND SCARE TACTICS!
If there are real problems with our wildlife and game, it is a shame that it is getting lost in the global warming BS and we are missing the necessary research into what is the real cause.
global warming, HA!! And my ancestors were monkeys. Tell the global warming junk to the people in florida having 30 degree weather last week.
In North Dakota, 5, count em 5 days above zero in the month of january. Record snow in december. GLobal warming my a**!
I remember back in the eighties when I was in grade school. The big environmental push back then was Acid Rain. Every week there was a doom and gloom story about how acid rain was going to kill all the plants and trees and blahblahblah. The argument made since; pollution goes up in the air; falls back down in precipitation. Fact is, if you are not over the age of 35 you probably don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about. The media likes to pick a doom and gloom topic and run with it. It sells magazines, and advertising slots. If its not acid rain its aids, if its not aids it is the avian byrd flu. global warming has now taken center stage.
Global warming is a bunch of crap!!! It's magnified 20 times over when there's a democrat in office not a republican. There's been huge climate changes throughout history, and the average increase fluctuates between .5 and 1 degree. There will be more heat and more cold spells in the eons to come, or whenever GOD say's he's had enough!
Ok, riddle me this global warming/liberal experts, why can we not recycle our reuseable energy sources that we have been stockpiling since the 1970's? I am referring to nuclear waste. It is a consumable/reusable energy source that needs to be reused because the storage and waste cost of it is too high. Everyone here needs to read Uncle Ted's book: RED, TED, and BLUE.
I htink global warming is happening I've seen pictures of glaciers that are completly gone
I don't, it's weather patterns that make the earth heat up and cool down on a 30-50 year cycle.
It's a fact that there was an ice age. It's also a fact that it melted away without any factories or SUV's. The climate has always been changing and always will. Man can neither stop it or cause it!
PS. CO2 is plant food
HELL YEAH UR RIGHT. its a natural occurance that i can't even fell and the magazine should be ashamed for publishing that libral, dumb,bull
All you nay sayers make me sick!!!! A true sportsman is ALSO a conservationist. If we don't care for and protect the environment around us, we won't have anywhere or anything to hunt or fish. Climate change is not a political (Democrat/Republican)issue. It is a global issue that effects every man, woman, and child on this planet!!!
Rjbedrock, just because we naysayers don't believe in man-made global warming and the impending catasprophy doesn't mean we aren't conservationists. You are right though, climate change isn't politcal. It's natural. But go ahead and buy into the hype and let the government use the global warming "crisis" to convince you to let it control everything you do. We are in a democracy...for now anyway.
Not cool rjbedrock i love the environment and i do believe that the world is ever so slowly getting warmer. However i don't really think that we are playing much of a role in it, i think that it is happening naturally. Also id like to add that up in northern Wisconsin the winter hit us early and fast and is still going strong and probably will for another month, so what about global warming!?
I wish we humans had more respect for Mother Nature.
Great Comment Wally! Those facts blew me away. I cant believe how dumb politicians can be! It's an awesome book and everyone who cares about our country should read it (except liberals, they'd be too offended, and probably burn the book)
I can't believe that this is even an argueable subject.Maybe some people don't realize that "global warming" is just a name for it and a very bad one at that.It's not a bout how warm your winter was this year.But on that note if you told me that the weather was the same in your region as it was when you were a kid.I would say either you are from somewhere along the equator or you were lying.Even if this isn't really going on would it hurt anything to be a little more environmentally concious?We obviously have a huge responsibility not just because we are humans, but because we are on a website called field and stream.
Way to start a firestorm CRAWLIFE... sorry I'm late to the conversation. I'm from Michigan and the winters are just like when I was a kid in the late 70s and 80s. Yes, I believe that the earth goes through it's cycles, and the Great Lakes water levels rising and falling and rising over the last decade proves this. But I think we should all do our part and be consious of our surroundings and what we put into our planet. Now I'm not some tree hugging, otter scrubbing, hippy (sorry mom and dad), but we have a direct effect on where we fish and hunt. And everyone should do their part, one way or another.
wallofsam, I like a little gas on the fire.I am glad we can agree to disagree.I'm here to learn not to make points and I appreciate your posts.Wish there was more honest dudes like yourself.
I'm a junior at one of the top environmental schools in the nation majoring in environmental science. I have yet to see real evidence that "man-made" climate change is really occurring. Has the temperature been increasing the last 40 or 50 years? YES. Why? You see, the only real consensus amongst scientists is that the temperature has gone up. That's where the consensus stops. I think that the whole global warming thing is mostly political with little scientific evidence. Back in the 70's, scientists were afraid of "global cooling" (some of you may remember that, but that was before my day). However, I do think that people should try to reduce fuel usage and recycle, because many of our resources are limited.
Global warming is fake.
These posts remind me of the "stages of grief" where the first stage is denial, the second is anger, the third stage is depression and the fourth is acceptance.
All you have to see is the houses washing away on the coast to note that sea level is slowly rising. Glacier national park is going to need renaming soon as the glacier is vanishing and going the way of the snows of MT Kilaminjaro.
I definately feel climate change is on it's way and the overpopulation and industrialization of the planet is to blame, in other words Humans are causing it.
I had a person tell me in all seriousness that the sea ice was increasing in the Arctic and therefore there can't be global warming (but it is still winter, duh). If that is the case then why is the worlds merchant fleets all excited about an ice free Northwest Passage? A confusing factor is that warmer temps actually mean more energy in weather systems or bigger storms. Hence the snowiest winter in a decade here in New England. Couple this with the hypothesis that freshwater melt from Greenland pouring into the Davis Strait dilutes the salinity of the Gulf Stream, which could turn off the Halide(salt) conveyer and turn off the Gulf Stream. Therefore QED Global warming will make any place warmed by the Gulf Stream COLDER. Meanwhile areas normally cooled by the other side of the Stream get a lot hotter.
The date of Winter Solstice 2012 has dire portents conveyed by about 6 traditional prophecies and another half dozen nontraditional prognosticators. You may not think much of Edgar Cayce, or the Mayan or Hopi prophecies, or the couplets of Nostradamus or Mother Shipton, or for that matter the "Da Vinci Code" but they all say startlingly similar things. All together they are offering a fairly dire and consistant warning.
Now if a whole lot of people say something is going to happen it may or may not. None of these prophecies claim the world is going to end...only the world we know. So if you stay in denial and make no preperations for uncertain contingencies you may be fine if nothing happens (but things are happening), or if you try to move towards more sustainable living practices, store some food water and ammo if nothing happens you are not out too much. But If Sh-t Happens how much better off are you and yours if you did something to help insure your kids survival?
I don't like the odds of doing nothing, I believe in sustainable living principles so even if nothing happens I am still better off. And if we get hit by an asteroid the size of Bejing we're toast anyway!
Once again I must say “The whole aim of Obama's Democrat politics is to keep the populace alarmed and thus clamorous to be led to safety by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary!”
The oceans are cooling and the atmosphere is cleaner now than in decades. Now there’s a new volcano in the south pacific and how much pollutants is that is putting out!
The earth is 2/3rds water that cleanses and the microcosms thrive and soaks up the CO2
I think the whole man-made global warming thing is purely political. I think that there are two things people are ignoring that are rather significant to earth's climate. The first is the big ball of fire in the sky commonly known as THE SUN. Earth's climate has always fluctuated with solar activity. Just look at the medieval warm period. The other is what clay mentioned. this planet has a lot of water on it, most of it in the oceans. Anybody want to guess where the highest concentration of CO2 on earth is? Yup, the oceans!!! What happens when the ball of fire in the sky makes earth a tad warmer? The oceans warm up, evaporating faster and releasing enormous amounts of CO2. Never fear, though, for the sun won't act up forever. Things will calm down, and may already be. By the way, you never hear that water vapor is the most effective greenhouse gas. And Clay, that is an awesome quote!!! I think that this whole global warming thing is just an attempt to create a single, one-world government.
Man can hardly touch what Mother Nature puts forth. She is the one who says it will get warmer. And over the last hundred years she brought up the temperature up only about a degree. Our man caused affect on that is minuscule. That's not to say we shouldn't care about the environment because we should try to make it better. But getting taxed on every mile you drive or every barbecue you have is not going to change a thing. Plus, here in school, they teach it like it is fact already. There is still so much debate as you can see. This whole age of misrepresentation is really going to hurt later on I think.
I believe that global warming exists, I just do not get how some people have experienced the coldest winters this year?
The more one knows, the more reasons to be concerned. My thought is that it isn't "just" Global Warming we need to be worried about at this time and these circumstances. Yes there is lots of evidence that points to global warming with concurrant sea level rise (although the forecast level of rise varies greatly). Massive melting took place in Greenland last summer and the ranges of southern species of songbirds and other avian species are expanding northward. It used to be rare to see a cardinal in winter here in New England, but I noted one in the Forsythia back in January. I understand that folks take offence to the notion that we as a technological species have caused climatic changes that will impact our own survival. Fine, call it what you will but deny it and a body is liable to have to eat their words and accept eventually. So what if "we" did it or if old Sol is merely going into a hotter cycle, it doesn't matter. Adapt or oh well ...you know.
Meanwhile we also have an increased likely hood of the long overdue magnetic pole reversal occurring. Not only will this play hob with our wonderfull new wireless technology but vast amounts of radiation normally blocked by the magnetic field will fry anybody exposed with unknown consequences...Wanna know when it happens? Carry a pocket compass and check it every so often. If you are outside at night watching a particularly vivid aurora and that wrist compass suddenly decides north is south, well now you can guess why. Of course Humanity will have nothing to do with causing this particular doomsday but adapt or mutate, so it goes..
Then there is the Supervolcano under Yellowstone, also overdue and a ticking bomb that will trash America in particular, when Yellowstone goes it will make Mount St. Helens look tiny. We know this because we can dig the bones of critters up out of 30' deep volcanic ash beds from the last time Yellowstone went boom. Mt. Rainier (I'm likely spelling it wrong) west of Seattle is also overdue the vulcanologists say, when that mountain blows Seattle is toast, but Yellowstone will dwarf anything recorded in the last 200 years, including Krakatoa (and that effected the whole planet causing the "year without a summer" I forget the date).
So we have terrible odds for global warming being interrupted by Yellowstone blowing up and causing a new ice age (but we're still toast in America).
Not to forget that there are ongoing environmental disasters for which Humans are completely responsible...Mountain top removal, The mess left by tar sand mining in Canada, ongoing contamination of watersupplies by endocrine disrupting agricultural chemicals and fertilizer runoff (causing massive "dead zones" in the Gulf of Mexico)
I have come to believe that at this time the threats posed by human thoughtlessness and stupidity is equal to any other horror we can imagine. Everything pales before the awesome distructive power of Stupidity and we are powerless before it. Stupid is as Stupid does. Kiss your hienie goodby.
Bella, you mentioned something about all the ice melting. People are asking the wrong question when it comes to the ice. They are asking "why is the ice melting?" without asking how it got there in the first place. I think that is where the conversation should start.
How did the ice accumulate in the Arctic and Antarctic? Simply enough thousands of years of snowfall piling up, compacting, freesing up,and not melting in the summer. The ice has layers like tree rings that preserve not only data about precipitation but also trap atmospheric gasses (in tiny bubbles) and particulate matter (volcanic ash, airborne pollutants etc.) The Greenland ice cap formed the same way glaciers do...and the same thing that is happening to glaciers down below the Arctic circle is also happening to the ice up north. Hundreds of millions of human beings depend on glacial melt for their water supplies. Both the Ganges river and the Amazon both have their sources from glacial melt.
Scientists say at one time the whole earth was covered in ice except for a tiny band in tropical regions. Of course the continents were in different places back then, techtonic theory has it that the continents drifted to their present positions gradually over eons of time. Rock in New York State matches rock in Scotland, and rock from the Nashoba Block (south of Boston) matches rock from Africa. This was before any vertibrates walked the land, but the evidence is there...
Now some may choose to believe that Terra was created in 4004 BC, and those individuals are welcome to keep believing that if they wish. I grew up a Mormon myself and had it explained to me that a moment in the mind of the Creator God is as 10,000 years to mortal man. I am quite thankfull to have escaped that deceptive power hungry authoritarian cult, but I still see that to be as good an explanation as any. After all, it is the greatest hubris to put limits on the mind of God.
If I were willing to live in ignorance, without awareness or knowlege, I could be happily oblivious to the perils we humans face. I could happily accept whatever blarney was put out by a Pope or a Prophet (or men who claim to be so), but I think for myself and I'd rather know the odds. I will let no man claim to speak for God to me, when God wants to talk to me, She will.
Bella, I can see that you are not going to change on your position. That's fine. Believe what you want to. However, I am not changing my position either.
Now that that's out of the way, the ice in the Arctic is not a case of thousands of years of snowfall, compaction, and freezing. You can believe that if you want to. I would agree that the earth probably had a bunch of ice on it at one time. It wasn't a very long time, though. I believe the Bible, and the flood of Noah really happened. Now is the part where you are going to call me crazy (go ahead, I don't care). There is enormous evidence to support the Flood, such as trees being found upright in layers of strata, and the biggest evidence, glaciers. The incredible amount of water from the Flood would have frozen in the colder Northern and southern areas and especially at higher elevations. We have evidence of glaciers having been in Missouri at one time. Do you really think that glacier came from thousands of years at snowfall? Not me.
As for talking about God: obviously, you don't have any faith in the Bible because you called God a she. The Bible always refers to God as HE. You are correct about Mormonism being a cult. The passage in the Bible saying that one day is as a thousand years to HIM is saying that GOD is not bound by time, as we are. Also, GOD gave us HIS WORD to speak to us. Also, I would address the issue of bubbles and volcanic gases in the ice, but I'm tired of typing. Maybe next time.
Well JLfreeborn, no you are not likely to change my mind. There is geological evidence for a lot of great floods, at different times andv places. One flood happened when a glacial lake burst its empoundment and created the scablands in Oregon, Another flood happened when the Mediterranean flooded the Black Sea and others have happened at other times. Most peoples have stories about great floods, wether one refers to Noahs flood , Ut-Naptishms floor (Sumerian legend, where Abram hailed from before he changed his name) or White Shell Girl and Turquois Boy's flood (Dineh legend AKA Navaho).
I would be interested for your explanation of atmospheric gas bubbles and volcanic ash in glacial ice. You know they have taken core samples that go back millenia...
jlfreeborn, It is great to know somebody else that firmly believes in the Bible and Noah's flood. You and right on!
I had an interruption but to finish my thought...
Science is the process whereby reality is investigated by asking a series of questions and doing tests to find out what the answers are. The science process mirrors how we learn, by asking questions and creating experiments that reveal how things work. Science has given us our modern world, yet it seems that when the scientific process reveals something that is "inconvenient" or that disproves some cherished belief system many are all roused to toss that science out the window. A seemingly rational individual can talk to his grandchildren by a cell phone and even see pictures of the little dickenses then go off about how these godless scientists are ruining everything by engaging in stem cell research (and that same fellow might just have a brother dieing of Parkinson's disease who just might be helped by the very technology excoriated for "murdering fetuses"). Too many folks just love science when it creates a cool new laser sight or night vision goggles but freak out when it is pointed out that that same science suggests that they share 98% of their DNA with a chimpanzee. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I furthermore find it galling when some grade school educated geezer thinks he has the direct pipeline to the allmighty, when all that he has are opininions and an overlarge ego. Why should the Divine Will choose only Jews and white folks of european ancestry to favor (sounds kinda egotistical to me, and ethnocentric, theres a $2 word for you). Every Nation that has lived has had some variation on faith, and their own sacred records detailing the teachings traditional to that people. Each and every one of those traditional faiths has adherants that believe as fervently as any Pentacostal. THe Rig Veda, the Popol Vuh, the Bardo Thodol are all the word of spiritual teachers passed down to us. To say the Bible is true because some grade school educated preacher who never even read Shakespeare said so is rather unenlightened. Sure Believers believe and would rather not see their beliefs put to scientific inquiry. You don't need to think to believe, it doesn't require examination and often suffers under scrutiny (and there goes the worldview, with the pins knocked out from under it).
The reality is even the Amish use technology derived by science (16th century science but still). Diss science if you like, but if you are going to do so take a look around and see what science has done for you and maybe you will allow your religion to cut science a little slack (or take off your factory made clothing wrap some skins around your butt and just TRY to make a stone axe to get your dinner of fresh termites with)
First of all, you are correct that there are surviving flood legends from all over the world. I'm no genius, but I think the reason for that is that there was a FLOOD! Seems logical to me. How do you know these stories are from different times? Radiometric dating that is severely flawed?
The explanation for volcanic ash and air bubbles is quite simple, actually. Air bubbles could have been trapped by numerous methods. Volcanic ash, not so much. It all goes back to the Great Flood. What most people don't realize when we talk about the Flood is that was not only the result of 40 days and nights' worth rain, but the BIBLE says in Gen. 7:11-12 that "...the same day were all the fountains of the deep broken up..." Now this was a catastrophe!!! A catastrophe of these proportions would have spewed water through the crust of the earth. When this happened, volcanoes would have erupted spewing the volcanic ash that you find in the core samples. And yes, I have heard all about the core samples. How do they know they are so old?
Questions for you, Bella. What is "inconvenient" for me and disproved my beliefs? If you are saying that chimp DNA being 98% similar to ours is inconvenient for me, you are wrong. My explanation is a lot easier to believe than yours. Just like an artist has his own trademarks in his paintings, I believe GOD has trademarks in HIS Creation. The 98% similarity simply tells me that the same ARTIST made everything. Our nervous system is remarkably similar to that of a grasshopper. Does that mean we all evolved from a common ancestor? No. It just means GOD created everything and saw no need to give a grasshopper different nerves. Can't have my cake and eat it too?
The thing about stem cell research...Is it right to sacrifice an unborn child for research? Let's go farther than that...Is it right to sacrifice one life for the life of another in the name of science? I could debate this till the cows come home.
Show me in the BIBLE where GOD chose white people of European decent, please. Yes, Isrealites are GOD's chosen people, but the BIBLE clearly puts every person, black and white, on an equal level. CHRIST died for everybody.
I believe the BIBLE is true because I see the evidence of it. I don't see how you can look out at CREATION and say, "Wow. Look at what millions of years have made." Check out DNA. Every living organism has DNA. You can't tell me that these strands came together by themselves.
One more thing...I have not dissed science one time. Science is fantastic. It's just that a lot of religious ideas hide themselves under the shroud of science. The entire idea of evolution is a religion. I say that because you have no proof, and you still believe it. I will admit that I have no empirical evidence to test for the presence of GOD. I believe it by faith. It's the same for a lot of your beliefs. Also, my worldview holds up quite well scientifically and nobody has ever "knocked the pins out from under it."
i can see it now in 10 years on the front page of new york times GLOBEL COOLING
and the best part is its all just loads of crap
pure ignorance, how can any of you that call yourselves sportmans not want to do everything in your power to improve the environment regardless of global warming? that is the reason the earth is going in the crapper, beacuase people like you refuse to change your lifestyles just a little to atleast try to imrpove the condition of our planet.
Geological dating of rock strata isn't neccesarilly dependant on "radiography". There are several ways of knowing that one layer of rock is older than another, microscopic examination of crystaline structures within the rock (like zircons)is one, intrusion of lava, sedimentation, erosion, metamorphosis and other processes can date rock.Glacial ice is even easier to date as it accumulates in layers like tree rings and you simply count them. By comparing sequences of rings and matching them with other cores of ice or wood precise dating can be applied.
I should clarify that I intend no personal aspersions against anyone and when I refer to grade school educated geezers with too much ego I am not referring to any person encountered on this blog, but to individuals of singular unenlightenment I have encountered in other spheres.
For instance I do not believe that the divine will has granted any special entitlement to any race or culture. But I grew up amoungst those who do and who would eagerly prosletize their supremracist views. There were those recently controlling our government who fervently believe that they were divinely ordained to rule and impose their "morality" on others. They sought to shackle science to the narrow confines of their religion despite the words in our constitution saying no state religion can be imposed on the people. Some persons seem to feel that as their religion is "true" that they should have the right to decide what nonbelievers should do with their lives. These same folks seem to want to impose some sort of "Sharia" law on everybody but how would they yelp with indignation if say, Hinduism was imposed on them!
So do I believe in evolution? I say that evolution is a theory with enough evidence behind it (that I have seen) to make it highly plausible. I do not need to "believe" in evolution because it is a scientific theory and science doesn't require "belief". Belief is an emotional way of judging things, faith is an emotion. While feelings are important to evaluation situations, rational evaluation of the facts on any issue has little to do with Faith, which can even skew analysis, considering the tendancy of people to find evidence for what they want to believe. The best way to address any problem is to consider the emotions issues raise as input to decisions, but not to let emotion rule the outcome. If something is true it should be true in both an emotional and a rational sense.
I had a discussion with a co-worker recently about the veracity of the Bible (I prefer King James, for the literary qualities).
He asked me if I "believed" in the Bible. I replyeds that I thought it was an excellent history book, but it is not the history of my people. I believe the Bible is subject to analysis just like any other document and if one considers whether it is "Divine Writ" one has to ask was the Byzantine Emperor Constantine who conviened the Council of Nicea divinely inspired?
After all it was the Emperor who set in motion the process that lead to what we know as the Bible today. Many books considered scripture (The Book of Jubilees, the Book of Mary, the Book of Judas) were not included yet we know of thier existance because monks hid the texts rather than destroy them when the Emperors Bishops decided they were heretical. We know far more about early Christianity these days due to such recovered early works, and the picture is quite unlike what we see in modern practice. So then if one is questioning the veracity of the Bible as "Divine Writ" one has to ask, which one? Tyndales? The Vulgate? King James? The "Blue Jeans Bible"? Or should one go to the trouble of learning Aramaic and classical Greek so the original source material can be accessed? Or does anybody actually think Yeshua (yep that would be His name, Jesus is Greek)spoke English? I have every respect for persons who Actually practice the teachings of Yeshua, especially the bit about loving thy neighbor as thyself, judging not, giving aid to the unfortunate, turning the other cheek and other teachings actually attributed to Yeshua (as opposed to the fabrications of Saul, who never even met Yeshua in the first place). I personally do not practice Christianity myself,I have my own faith and I do not prosletize it out. Damn me if you will, but when you do you only damn yourself (and that's according to what Yeshua taught).
Oh one other point, floods do not leave vertical trees in strata. Floods rip everything up and leave it in a tangled pile when the water goes down. Ashfall leaves tree trunks vertical in strata for subsequent mineralization and petrification. Vertical tree trunks preserved in rock strata are evidence of continental type volcanos (as opposed to basaltic oceanic crustal volcanos). Floods leave entirely different signatures as do Tsunami.
Bubbles form in compacted glacial ice because the was air between the snow crystals that was trapped during compaction. These bubbles can be sampled and analysed for the atmospheric content and provide data on the air eons ago.
There have been many "great floods" at many times in prehistory. There have also been tsunami that made the wave that hit Java look like a ripple. If even a small asteroid hits the ocean again in our lives we could see one a klick high. Such a wave could take out the easten seaboard entirely, so hope we never see it. They can move at 200+ mph so they can be hard to outrun. The area near Seattle has geological traces of such a happening, we know where the waves washed up. I know of no evidence to support the notion that there was only one "great flood" and a lot of data to the contrary. We have been fortunate to live in a period of reletive geologic calm, but it can't last forever.
If you've never seen a petrified tree protruding through numerous layers, you should check out Cookville, TN. There are numerous examples here. Most of the trees are found in coal seams. They start in one coal seam and end in another.
Coal is petrified Peat Moss. Peat grows and forms layers over time and yes you can find vertical dead trees in Peat, just like in Coal. Such petrified logs are not created by flooding much less "the great flood". They usually date from the aptly named Carboniferous Era when the Peat that eventually compressed into coal. Basic Geology 101.
UH, what about the ICE AGE? Did man create global warming? I don't thinks so. The Earth goes through stages and cycle. We cannot predict the weather accurately let alone predict what will happen in 20 or 30 years. Bottom line, This global warming is a scam to make money and have power. I'm all for picking up trash and recycling, but saying that the polar caps are melting a that the sea level will rise 20 feet in a few years is just a scare tactic that apparently allot of you have fallen pray to. There will be nothing you or I can do to slow it or stop it. And Co2 is something plants need to survive and we need plants to survive. It was called Photosynthesis at one time, not Green house gas.
Honestly, I have found Global Warming to be a load of crap. There has been no proof positive evidence that there is something to be truly worried about. I heard that a scientist said that all ice in the poles would be gone in the year 2060, that very same year, we had the coldest winter in 30+ years. I also heard that the ice we had lost in the last 20 years had amazingly returned. How is that going to fit into the whole plan of ice gone by the year 2060, now what 2080 or 2090? I am very interested in weather and climates, and have found that all this Global Warming is actually the Earth recovering from a mini iceage that dropped Earth's average temperature. Even better, there have been periods millions of years ago, long before cars and road ways, when the Earth had no ice on it, and Alligators lived in Ellesmere Island, at 78 degrees north. Hmmm.... maybe this Global Warming thing is really just a bunch of bologna!
Touchy subject and everyone takes sides. It shows at least that we care. As human beings all clustered together in a reasonably small place we have every right to be careful with our world. I don't know if global warming is an issue or not. I try to read everything that I can find from authentic scientific media and I do see a trend away from the hard line "warmer caused by human activity theory". For anyone to say "absolutely yes" or "absolutely no" to this issue shows exactly what the majority of scientists say, and that is that there's no consensus.
I don't know how we are supposed to cut down on our industries and start using bicycles to go to work, etc, as the Chinese and Indians go to town ignoring all these concerns.
the real question is how much of the climate change is really human caused and how much is just cyclical anyway. I do not vote for drastic actions. And I don't know that Field and Stream needs to weigh in.
final thought: as hunters we have to be at least open to ideas about Conservation and less pollution in general. But let's reject the idea it is an emergency.
Climate change is the "real deal" boys. Anyone who took high school chemistry can prove it for themselves. Our earth is just a large test tube. There are certainly several factors at work, even natural trends, but the amount of carbon dioxide we are pumping into the atmosphere will change things over time. The key issue to understand is that the earth will not get warmer every where. Some areas may even become colder. But overall the earth is getting hotter. Not sure what the rest of you do but I've worked as a professional geologist for over 15 years and the science does not lie. (Unless it's made to)
Take some time to review the folks doing the studies. Generally, those that say it isn't happening are funded by private industry - mainly by the oil and gas industry.
The US Military has warned of climate change for many years due to their concern of unstable governments as a result of refugees as a result of starving citizens. Just wait till Mexico starts having regular day time highs of over 110 degrees. You think we have a problem with an open border now? - Just you wait! Buy property now in Canada for your kids to hunt and live. In 40 to 50 years it’ll feel just like North Carolina!
Go ahead do you own research. When you do, common sense tells you which studies to trust. This will become a real "I told you so" issue in the next 10-20 years.
Well thought out posting. I have a few things that I've heard about that I would appreciate your response to. I've heard that carbon in the atmosphere is unmeasurable by current scientific standards. Some of the incomparable totals seem to bear this out. I've also read that most of the United Nations scientists, even some of those that Al Gore based his movie on have reversed their position and now say that the theory of "man made global warming is probably not true", although they basically all agree that the world is warming, they now agree that they don't know why. I have searched for studies that show the amount of carbon being put into the atmosphere by man in relationship to that being placed by nature. I've thrown out the far left and the far right and I'm left with no credible information. How are average people supposed to be able to make a sound decision for or against if information is so tainted by one side or the other?
Peat moss, eh? What made it petrify?
I don't see how you can place the same variables in a test tube, that are in the Earth's atmosphere and come up with an accurate answer? Isn't Science exact, based on fact, not theory?
Science is far from being exact. just take this global warming thing for example. what are the facts? depends on who you ask.
What is science? Observe a phenomenon. Devise a theory to explain that phenomenon. Prove your theory.
If you prove your theory you have science, if you do not prove your theory you do not have science you have theory.
To say that the earth is warming from man made causes is a theory.
My point exactly.........
Why are the oceans cooling SLICK!
>a few things that I've heard about that I would appreciate
>your response to.
I think the science is generally sound that says greenhouse gases are likely having an effect, the question becomes how much of the current evident warming is manmade. The alarmists get ahold of this and are trying to misuse the science to their own ends, sometimes their agenda just seems to be having government control everything. My own opinion is that we might as well wait and see if the Chinese and Indians are going to be on board with reducing emissions or I am *not* going to be giving my support to advocates of us reducing our carbon use. Frankly, I see little sign of sincerity anywhere, just lip service.
>I've heard that carbon in the atmosphere is
>unmeasurable by current scientific standards.
I would respect the scientists too much to doubt they can measure it. I suspect the original question was whether or not we would wind up asphyxiating ourselves, since there is a limit to how much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere we can take. Since this has never been a real concern it makes me suspicious of what they are focusing on.
>Anyone who took high school chemistry can prove it for themselves
the scientists are not using that kind of chemistry, they are using climate models using computers. That kind of science is new and has its critics.
Geologists and Climatologists seem to [generally] be on one side and the Meteorologists on the other. What do you make of that?
I ask you this? Someone says we can save the world with electric cars. The best electric car can drive about 200 miles with one charge. How is this going to work for people like me that live farther from the closest city on a round trip than that? How are you going to farm with an electric tractor, or harvest with electricity? At this point and time there is no way to do this. So global warming may be happening, I don't think it is man caused, but we cannot think that we can make drastic changes instantly and be okay. I think most people like to eat and have their commodities.
Another thing to think about is when did man become not a part of nature?
The IPCC has over 700 advisory scientists at their disposal. Only 52 at the time of Al Gore's movie signed on to the manmade global warming THEORY. Over 650 of the remaining scientists simply didn't buy this hype. Now some of the 52 have backed away from their earlier stance. These are not scientists bought and paid for by the oil companies or George Soros, these are the best professional minds of our time and for political expedience we refuse to listen.
Regardless of whether you believe in global warming or not shouldn't we be worried that the animals we consider game are at risk?
Thaught this video fits the subject in question.
The real question is whether or not the climate/weather is dependant on human impact.
Its been both hotter and cooler than it is now. Any living species has been an invasive species at some point in time or it wouldn't be alive today.
And able is right...those who say global warming is happening are missing the entire point...It is whether man caused it. And that has not been proven. In fact over 600 scientists said the lefts scientific evidence of mans involvement was contrived, poorly collected data, falsified data..I'm with Perry on this one...bogus science, but he again, could have said it better than coming across as rejecting science.
Sometimes it isn't the statement, it's the "perception" it was recieved in.
BTW, my father-in-law swears up and down that "jet airplanes" are the "major" cause of "Global Warming"!
"A jet engine ain't anything but a big heat pump!"
He's a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat!! LOL!!!
Probably thinks flying those jets at 35,000 ft punctures holes in the ozone layer. And they are a heat pump. From the time I hear that landing gear thump up that sounds like they hit the ground, I sweat.
Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth is really a Convenient Lie that made him a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of money.
Recent heat wave across the country has spurred the global warming advocates out of the woodwork again. The mainstream media had to run the supposed evidence scares again. Many legitimate scientists have indicated it is all a scare, all a hoax. Another hoski/rat plan to syphon lots of money away from Corporate America via the carbon tax, and divert the monies to their socialist causes. Obama is right now as I type trying to circumvent congress knowing his democrats in congress won't pass the carbon tax...circumvent them, and have the EPA, impose the tax. Called hoski/rat agressive "Progressivism"...avoid the system, and use anything that works.
Last week we had record lows for this time of the year. I'm sure that a dinosaur farting millions of years ago had something to do with that gas in the atmosphere.
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