Are we not all Americans? Thats the "team" we should all remember.

Divide and conquer...

I though this post was about keeping our firearms and sticking together to protect our gun rights and not to badmouth a guy because he used a particular type of firearm or he participated in a certain type of hunting. I must have missed something along the way. ( To the guy who said he had never heard anything negative about a crossbow, I hear bow hunters badmouthing crossbows everyday here in WV )

You do hear some arguements between some groups of hunters against other groups but I believe they are in the vast minority. My guess is 95% of hunters and gun owners don't care what the other hunters are doing. For instance I live in Ohio where crossbows are legal as well as compounds. In my thirty plus years of hunting I have never heard a cross word between the two groups. I even hunt with crossbow hunters.

The real danger is apathy. Hunters must understand that all issues apply to them because what goes around comes around. Example: I do not bear hunt with dogs and have no interest in the sport but I understand that if a state wishes to take that right away from others I must help defend them. I may need their help some day.

But I'll be damn if I hunt with a guy who drives a Chevy. lol.

Hoski,
You forgot: au revoir, salut, à la prochaine, à bientôt

The Health care system will never become viable. The cost and lack of professional care will doom this system as it has doomed national care all over the world. This system can't work and no one can point to a single example where it worked without disaster at every turn. The French want to do away with theirs, the British want to do away with theirs and the Canadians all come here when ever they need professional care. This doesn't have to do with Dem-Rep. This has to do with intellect and concern. This is an poor idea and simply can't be touted as any sort of victory for anyone. How in the world does anyone expect this pathetic government to run national health care for the expected 60+ million announced when the VA is a dismal failure for our vets???? If you can't manage 10 bucks how can you manage a million??

Supreme Court

I see where Mr. Cooper now wants folks to qualify themselves as to why one agrees or disagrees with any posted statement. Wants reasons given when folks issue a plus or minus. To my knowledge this has never been required before, why now? I’ll be happy to give you my reasons for disagreeing with the poster in question. I’ve grown weary of certain individuals who constantly turn any generalized topic of discussion into a rant against the current administration. From premature male pattern baldness to sun spots, it’s all Obama’s fault. I don’t mind that folks disagree on specific subjects, hell that’s what debate is, but twisting every single thing into a political rant is just getting old. He should layoff the “infiltration” train of thought too.

gun owners vs. anti-gun owners all right, but the gun owners have to have commonsense, or the anti's use the kooky argument to win the debate.
It is all about open debate, and the public makes the judgement. The only exception to the open debate American way is Obama who gets policy changed behind closed doors, and through the use of Czars.

Hoski ..You need to go back to 8th grade and take ECON 101 and listen this time. Healthcare will turn out to be a a huge financial ruin, and the administration wants no info to come out on it now that we know it will create huge debt, and very poor healthcare.
Financial reform? lol That was a joke right? The very liberal folks that caused the world, financial meltdown, are now in charge of reforming it? Just more regulation and taxes that will hurt jobs and the economy.
And besides all the financial ruin this guy and his liberal buddies in congress have created THIS GUY IS THE MOST RACIALLY DIVISIVE PRESIDENT IN US HISTORY BAR NONE!

Hoski...You are a joke. Any credible analyst will tell you that opening up state borders to insurance co. competition would provide over 300 different choices. That is a fact. This administration does not want that simple fix. They want a single payer system, and socialized medicine period. They jammed through a 1,200 pg. document before anyone could understand what was in it. Matter of fact, Pelosi said to pass it, and then read it! Obama told his own party members that didn't want it, that it was cost neutral..no additional debt...THAT WAS A BIG LIE!!!
The insurance co.'s are not the problem! The fact you want anyone to believe this administration favors competition of any kind discredits you as a credible source of information...that is an outright lie. They want to eliminate co. and oversee business. They have regulated the auto industry, the insurance industry, the student loan business, banks, and with the carbon tax they will control most all industry. Now spend your time researching the Mass. healthcare system that is a disaster...just what Obama wants.

See for yourself:

http://www.fordpic.com/Ford/2009/09/Ford_Raptor_R_Concept_153612_2008110...

John I have a friend comin into town next week and the bass are startin to pick up cant wait. But if you and Clay are right if Obama said he does not want our guns and 2nd amendmant rights then why is he appointing all these people who are against them into office and on the supreme court?

Do either of you guys (Hoski/Moishe) remember when Canada went to socialized medicine!?
I do!
I lived in a town of twenty thousand in East Texas that gained four FINE Canadian doctors because socialized medicine would ruin them!
As far as the economy goes!
You gotta go back to the turn of the 20th century for all the answers.
In 1900 our government was solvent. By 1950, it was in ruins and continues down hill today.
The whole world praises FDR for bringing America out of the Great Depression. It didn't have anything to do with FDR, World War II and the need for ward materials ended the Great Depression. FDR gave us income tax and social security.
James E. Carter in the 70's told banks they could no longer refuse home loans because of income. Ergo, Fannie Mae! If I'm not mistaken, it was Wild Bill that brought us Freddie Mac!
The four programs that I mentioned above are costing Americans.
Now Barry O' wants socialized medicine. (a rose by any other name is still a rose!)
Banks and loans are the least of our worries!!!

Just remember this one fact!
"In recorded history, no Democracy has lasted more than two hundred years. Every day the sun comes up over the East coast sets a new record!"

History DOES repeat itself gentlemen.
America is now into year 234!

Bubba

FirstBubba, I realize you may be entering here kind of in the middle of ongoing debate. For the record I've stated before that I'll support good ideas from either party, I don't "automatically" support anybody. Now some will say I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I don’t see it that way. I won’t confine myself by wearing any “brand”, blindly following any ideology. And for the record, I'm not asking for anybody’s support, I'm all grown up and dried out behind the ears. My complaint here specifically is concerning certain posters who continually blame this administration for everything. IMO they want a convenient scapegoat. As an example, let’s look to my above post concerning the fiscal commission. The current administration has turned to the ONLY folks who’ve successfully created a balanced federal budget in recent memory for suggestions leading this country out of the fiscal mess we find ourselves in now. The commission comprises folks from both parties. This certainly sounds like a common sense approach to me. This implies to me that Obama is honestly trying, but is there any credit for effort given? Sadly, no, most are still seeking their scapegoat. Watch how some will condemn this as “just political theater”, or “it isn’t genuine”, or some version of master plan hatched in Kenya to turn this country into the new socialist utopia.

Really? Who owns GM? What did Obama do to GM? And Obama's bailout of the big banks. That one flew over your head?..Obama isn't regulating the credit bank lending that is causing the economic meltdown? Flakes can still get homes with little credit while good credit folks that can pay back their loans have trouble getting a loan. Banks are closing by the dozens weekly because they won't lend to the flakes, and can't lend to good creditors. The failure was caused by Fannie and Freddie that were run by democrats that insisted that banks loan to flakes with no credit...the American entitlement thing that anyone should be able to own a home. Banks took no risk in lending to flakes because Fannie and Freddie bought up the bad loans, called subprime loans from the banks. Why wouldn't you write the loan and get the loan fee if the govt was going to remove the risk? Then these bad loans were bundled, called derivatives, and sold to central banks around the world. These bad loans dragged other good loans into foreclosure and down went credit ratings around the world...then Obama decided to bailout a lot of these banks around the world with tax payer money!!!!! You must be awful young because you are sure awful ignorant of what happened. Blaming US industry, and banks was a diversionary tactic used by the left.

Hoski, Sorry that the facts are getting in your way. I didn't imply that the Bush bailout of banks happened because of liberals...just the fact that Paulson is a liberal...that is fact. The bailout was supported by both parties...that is a fact. And it is a fact that Obama has seized on the opportunity to regulate credit by the banks...that is a fact. Banks are shutting down because of it, loans aren't being made when banks have plenty of money to loan, because of Obama's credit regulations. And when I say a bank closes, some of these banks have 30-40 branch banks!!!!!!! Get real! Obama is a financial disaster, and now the fatcat CEO's on WallST. won't contribute to the guy when they donated heavily to his campaign...wakeup bud. And GM? Obana got rid of their CEO!!! Put his own guy in as CEO!! Ever heard of a President doing that? Find out if 1 out of 4 vehicles has to be a clown car..a concession the environmentalists got from Obama!

Wam that was a great post, its to bad that there are people in this country that take so much for granted and do not thank those that have for this country. Thank You for your service.

The State Government run health care system that I have access to are the Mass. and Maine programs. Both are disasters and can't even come close to the proposed estimates for self sustaining activities. Everyone in Maine has to pay high additional fees if you are self insured to pay for the Dirigo program. Many doctors are refusing to treat Dirigo patients because the state is more than two years behind in payments. The same stories are coming out of Mass. and my information comes from one of the original drafters of the plan, a long time customer and a man who has devoted his life to providing health care to those who can't afford it. If this fine gentleman, with all of his expertise and ability is ready to throw in the towel, who are we to say stay the the course? The issue with both Mass. and Maine is the state gov. refusal to let the free enterprise system exist. In Maine, there are only two insurance companies that we can choose from, one private and one gov. plan. Maine refuses to let fair competition take place. I can remember when I could choose from more than 15 insurers and the cost was reasonable and the service was excellent. Now that the state gov. says who can and who can't insure me the service is horrible and the costs are off the charts. The same is true of the gov. run plan. I checked the cost against my own insurers comparable plan and the cost are virtually identical except the gov. plan has many more restrictions as to the services that my doctor can provide. Nothing that any State or Federal government does will be better than the service the private sector will provide. Nothing is ever perfect, but what we have now is the envy of the entire world. When your life is on the line you will do what is required to save yourself and people from all over the world come to this country to avail themselves of the finest in medical attention. I've told this story before but it bears repeating occasionally. I'm close to the second largest hospital in Maine and on any given day of the year approximately 50% of the cars in the parking lot are Canadian. The Canadian health care is free but the service is very bad. If you have a serious condition you may have to stand in line and even then maybe not ever see a specialist. This is information from many of my Canadian friends who come here on a regular basis. This national health care plan of the current administration is sliding downhill fast and will crash before it can make a correction. All of the current cost estimates, including those from the administrations own accounting office, say that it can't work.

Hey Hoski

Like country music?
"You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything!"

You gotta git off'n that fence sometime or you'll end up in no man's land with lead flying from both directions!

Bubba

idduckhntr,Im glad the ice is finaly off the river over there.American falls is producing I hear.
buckhunter,you had me hook line and sinker!!And that last line!BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!! its a slippery slope!!You wanna hear jaws pop go out with a group of staunch Flyfishermen and hook up a big ol'night crawler...It's all good. G'night gentlemen.

Sayfu, Fact, you are correct when you state banks now have money to loan. Fact, US Presidents don't "instruct" banks on which loans to make or not make, that's a loan officer’s job description. Fact, bank bailout provided funds so banks would free-up credit (loans) which banks so far haven't done by THEIR choice. Fact, if you run a business to near collapse and then come to me for funds, your damn right I'm going to put restrictions in.

Sayfu, check today's AP wire, Bernanke has some interesting things to say concerning banks and lending. Again, who controls lending?

Moishe, any co-operation on my part will be in direct coralation to your usage of pig reference when implying yours truly, regards.

When I referred to Obama bailing out the big banks, it was an opportunity to seize control of the big banks via the bailout. Bush's congress bailed out the banks, both republicans and Dems, and it is still debatable what would have happened had they not. Paulson, and his wife, by the way, were liberals. But now, through the bailouts Obama is controlling the credit is my point. Flakes can still get loans and stay in their homes which continues to bring on more foreclosures. The money they have been provided is money down the tube, they just end up in foreclosure again. Credit worthy folks have a difficult time getting a loan. This is where OBAMA'S STATEMENT "let no crisis go wasted" comes in and he can implement more socialism. And when GM came to the govt for help the normal BK process wasn't followed. Obama ran the show and GAVE the GM stockholders their proceeds to the UNION. The bondholders were also left holding the bag. That is the corruption, and govt control we are witnessing, and what Obama wants with healthcare...not open competition for insurance. Then the environmentalists won the day in the GM case getting the concession that 1 out of 4 vehicles has to be a clown car as if they can be forced onto the consumer. That insures profits will not be made, and we will bailout the union for a long, long time going forward. And the union pension plans that go unfunded because of Obama's economic policy of not growing private sector jobs? Liberals in congress just proposed that the taxpayer dump another $165 Billion into their coffers to keep them afloat!!!,,,incredible!

The rassle is coming in Nov. at the polls. Any liberal up for relection will be gone. A GOP moderate up for re-election will be gone. And they will be held to their voting record by the TeaParty-ers. We have to, this is crunch time for this country. People see govt workers pensions, and jobs cut back by Greece, as they burn cars and bust out store windows rioting, but California's debt is far, far deeper than Greece's debt, and that is but one state! New York, Illinois, are deeeeep in debt, and will Obama let them go into receivership, and a judge determine who gets what to get financially solvent?...or will he bail them out with taxpayer money which is what happened with the 800B stimulus...states just covered their budget shortfalls, and back to business as usual...I say it happens again!! And how does this relate to guns, and ammo, and fishing...massive inflation down the road, and folks lucky to pay their bills let alone hunt and fish. Socialism ALWAYS makes the poor, and the middle class pay dearly.

Banks and loans the worst of our worries..bubba

Small business creates 70% of all new jobs that foot the bills for the health and welfare of our nation. Right now they are not expanding, creating new business, creating new jobs. Private industry is shrinking. Small business depends on bank loans they are not taking out because they are worried about new taxes, their healthcare costs going forward because of ObamaCare. Private business is shrinking, and banks are closing down because loans are not being made. I'd say banks making loans is a very big concern.

What didn't I get a grip on? What is your position on FDR's NEW DEAL and bringing us out of a depression. I suspect I know.
And did you catch the response Erskine Bowles provided Obama today regarding his report as head of the Debt Commission who the Democrats appointed?..."stay the course you are on, and we are headed off the cliff"
I rest my case, and it has scared the bejesus out of a lot of Democrats up for re-election that are now turning against Obama.

I hear that the government owns part of GM even after they paid their debts. I hear that the price of cigarettes have gone up, more people cannot smoke in more places. The Green movement and Global Warming are complete scams (greed). There were even emails to other scientists to agree on global warming 'exaggerations' aka lies. Why do green products cost more? Car inspections are pointless (on newish cars, lol)! Why do I need a car inspection on my perfectly running Toyota???

Man, I understand what is going on. I use common sense. I see how the government controls too much and takes too much. They feed us fake news. You can see the control, the greed. America is free to a point. Our financial system is based on greed. Sure, I could use some more money, who couldn't? But I'm not going to take more out of others' paychecks or force them to get additional car inspections. Just awful! Just using a car has enough bills...

As for one good thing Obama did--the paycheck a lot of people got in the mail. Forget what it was called. Remember?

The answer is better use of finances. Watch what we spend. Don't be surprised when we (America) need to cut back. It happens. But complete failure of our financial system? More bills? Higher sudden prices? There is no excuse!.. besides greed, the love of money.

I am not against our government. We need control. We need to pay our dues. But it has gotten too excessive... too excessive.

Bubba, this is not a Democracy, that is MOB RULE, we are (SUPPOSEDLY) until the recent farcical village idiot, a Constitutional Republic, there is a very big difference.

Awright Clay and WMA,

Respectfully, I had to go back to the old dictionary and look this one up. Here's what I found.

de-moc-ra-cy - n. pl. -cies
1. government in which the people hold the ruling power either directly or through elected representatives
2. a country, state, etc. with such government
3. majority rule
4. the principle of equality of right, opportunity, etc., or the practice of this principle.

From: Webster's NewWorld Dictionary - second concise edition

Sounds to me like what our founding fathers had in mind!

Bubba

Okay, definitions aside, MY answer to your post is:

No, the current administration isn't responsible for ALL our ills.
Now, go back and read my earlier post.
At the turn of the twentieth century, America was solvent. FDR is credited with bringing the US out of the Depression. World War II brought us out of the depression with the demand in war materials.
What did FDR do?
Income Tax
Social Security
Dismantle the Gold Standard
It's been downhill from there.

Bubba

Clay, as you know the administration merely wanted some true competition for the insurers, who still hold all the strings and continue to demand ever escalating premiums, sadly, that wasn't allowed through conservatives’ refusal to even hold debate. If by chance some private folks could/would create a healthcare insurance that didn’t put individual profits above all else, there would be competition and I’d support it. Alas, that’s unlikely. Nothing wrong with making a buck, there’s just something wrong with selling the idea that an individuals’ healthcare is covered only to learn that when it’s needed, the procedure you need is deemed to be not covered.
If we’re going to talk guns then lets talk guns.
Sayfu, how the heck did you manage to work race into this? Only you.

Let’s get YOUR facts straight parrot, GM and Chrysler came to the govt. for help, not the other way around. Bank bailout? (Which I’ve previously stated I opposed) was initiated by your hero Bush, $700 BILLION worth to be implemented by Henry Paulson with a 3 page memo as a guide line as you so conveniently forgot, your selective memory is showing again. Tell me Mr. Wizard, which administration official held a gun to lender’s heads to make all those unsecured loans? Which administration official held a gun to the heads of Leman Brothers or AIG’s forcing them to buy into that mess? They took their chances; they should’ve stood the consequences. The term here is GREED. So now everybody should just ignore the chance that it could happen all over again, or, strong regulations could be implemented to protect citizens from that risk. I choose financial regulation. Oh yeah, I should mention that it was the republican congress that repealed financial regulations during Bush’s administration, selective memory thing again.

Cleared the land, etc. Take half my dinner, etc. would get your butt handed to you. The pay for production question answers itself. Any production facility I'm aware of that pays per unit produced, also has tracking verifying who does what.

FirstBubba, welcome.
Some time back myself and fellow posters had the definition debate, all kind of agreed everyone was right. Scroll up and see my first post on this thread, it still stands. I'm still asking fellow posters and citizens if this country's ills were brought on solely by current administration or did it develop over many.

Sayfu, First Bubba's quote is as follows, "The whole world praises FDR for bringing America out of the Great Depression. It didn't have anything to do with FDR, World War II and the need for war..."etc. So essentially you two are in agreement, but you rushed to argue first instead of understanding what was said. And yes I did catch Mr. Bowles statement regarding ongoing fiscal commission meetings. Also heard frm. Republican Senator Alan Simpson's and Ben Bernanke's statements. Below are just some of their statements.
"Bowles, former President Bill Clinton's White House chief of staff, said changes to the country’s defense, tax, spending and entitlement policies were necessary to deal with a $13 trillion debt expected to grow faster in future years".

Bowles called on the commission to find ways to extend Social Security’s solvency and reduce health costs beyond savings from the president’s healthcare reform law."
"Bowles told Democrats that the healthcare bill would help reduce debt but doesn’t go far enough".
“I think you got all of the cost out there to get right now,” Bowles said. “I think you can be darned proud of that, but we do have to get more costs out of healthcare or it will just consume the budget.”

He also called for tax code reform, singling out costly tax breaks that haven't had their intended effects.

“The greatest contribution we can make to that is to work to simplify it, broaden the base and make it so that America is more competitive in a knowledge-based economy,” Bowles said.
How do you interperet these recommendations into "turning against Obama"?

Liberal cops that are censoring posts? Yeah, you're not paranoid at all. It's all part of the master plan.
Beautiful day out there, I'm going fishin.

FirstBubba, do you get ALL your life's answers from music? I'll just keep shootin back in all directions with the truth, Thanks.

Clay, Carrot and stick thing, always a good policy.

I hope you are not referring to me. I blame liberalism. Socialism has creped into our system for years...mainly since FDR. Reagan fought it saying the enemy is Us...the big spenders in congress. It has just accelerated dramatically since Obama and the left took over.
Stimulus spending package...ObamaCare. immigration issue now, wanting a phony carbon tax., now going to dramatically raise taxes to pay for all the debt created...more debt created in a year and a half than all the 8 yrs. of Bush, at a time when tax receipts are dwindling! The guy IS a disaster.

Looks to me like this thread has some liberal cops that are censoring posts.
Must think they are part of the mainstream media.

posting, posting..

Whew! It sure is more fun sitting on the sidelines reading this one than getting into the fray! LOL

Sic 'em, boys!

We were founded as a republic governed by our Constitution, not a democratic society. The terms republic and democracy have little to do with the political parties and their platforms (both of which are rotten and shaky). Constitutional Republic defines our form of government better than most other terms. Look it up.

Bush was only President for 32 Quarters....

At this point, I'd settle for a few that were honorable and accountable in positions of authority...

Hoski, I prefer you would not quote me to make a point. Thank you so much.

Hoski

Arguing with a fool never works. It soon gets to the point where you can't tell who is who!!

Adios!!

Bubba

It remains amazing to me how individuals that frequent this site can warp history into “facts”. The Parrot implies Obama used bank bailout to take ownership of said banks. As if this is all some devious master plan that he initiated. Parrot pays passing admission that it was Bush who initiated bank bailout but quickly moves blame to Bushes appointee Paulson as a liberal in disguise. The Parrot implies that the whole country is continuing to get questionable housing loans. Oh really? Last time I checked housing market is near collapse. Parrot says GM bailout went directly to the unions. Got any documentation, or did that come straight from your butt too? Environmentalists now running GM? Joe the Plumber? Are you kidding me? Unemployed tax delinquent trying to buy business? Are you serious? Where does this guy get this stuff? More importantly, why am I the only one who questions the Parrot? Seems to me more of the posters at this site who call yourselves true conservatives would be more than a little embarrassed by some of the Parrots wilder claims.

If only all men were honorable, accountable. I suppose there's always been the shifty ones. Used to be Mother Nature was allowed to run her course and weed out the undesirables, now we're civilized.