Oh boy, I've got to say this...

First, my family is basically a Christian family. We try to follow all the rules we can. Raised our son right. Work with animal rescue groups. Volunteer.

It's not God my wife and I have an issue with, it's man's interpretation. Here's one of my points; I was raised in the Episcopalian way, and my wife was raised Catholic. Both of us were married and divorced in our youth. When we wanted to get married, the Catholics wouldn't let us because I wasn't Catholic and not divorced through the church... an "official" divorce. The Episcopal church wouldn't marry us simply because we were divorced. So, we went to a Presbyterian church, who said; "Sure! Come on in!". Note that we both wanted to be married in the church, not a judge, and not Vegas.

Now, depending on how your own belief system works, you may think several things...
1. At least we wanted the church behind our marriage.
2. God didn't want us to be married. Shame.
3. God did want us to be married, and found us a way.
4. We "played the system" until we got what we wanted.

Man's interpretation of God has affected what man gets to hear, and read, about God from the beginning. And yes, I mean the Holy Bible. Dating to the 4th century, when the Holiest of all the Church has a big hoopla to decide just how to finalize the Bible, and the teachings, to consolodate many different ways. During this time, and through the middle ages, what we finally recieved as the Holy Bible is a compromise that has been heavily edited. The omitted and edited Books could have taught us more.

Take the amount of superstition in the Bible. For the centuries that the simple cat was considered a creature of the devil, all references and mention of cats was eu for reading dited out. To this day, the cat is the only common animal not listed anywhere in the Bible.

Thank you for your indulgence. Don't interpret this as against God, just another issue with mankind.

After reading this through a few times, I'm not quite sure which side I'm helping more. But he did say he wanted what we believed, and after my last comment, I owe that fairly.

1. From history and books (not exactly the bible) that people have written about their experiences back then that have been handed down from generation to generations. We simply didn't evolve from apes or other wise your child that you have now, you wouldn't be the dad or mom a monkey would be. That dosen't make sense.

2. Its all about what you personally beleive in. If you beleive Jesus died on the cross for us than being a Christian is the right place for you. read the bible too. If you follow all of the ten commandments you will have no trouble in life.

3.Yes. i have in mind to be creamated and spread my ashes somewhere where I enjoy to be. Its all about what you want to do.

Actually, I think you're trying to "present an argument" just by attitude. You've certainly gone out of your way to make your appearance both controversial, topics that are a slap in the face to some, and in bad taste keeping with this site.

My case presented is that while different viewpoints are welcomed, you have repeatedly reworded the exact same theme many times in order to stir up religious discussion. Clicking on your name and going over the history proves that. You have used symbols deliberately to provoke, including your name.

Now it's fine to be proud of your religion! I do call paganism a religion, since it follows the rules of such. Methodists and Baptists aren't on here provoking each other all day, why are you so unsure of yourself you need to reinforce your belief constantly provoking others?

Most people comfortable comfortable in their belief, whatever it is, don't need to mouth off about it all day. I've been cut off in traffic by more mercedes with fish symbols on the back than I can count. Actions.

You say you used to be a Christian. Fine. Then you know what a Christian feels and thinks. Find religious boards to talk on, boards and chats that are built for those subjects. I can't figure out your reasoning of coming to Field & Stream, sporting a pentagram and spouting off about this.

I don't even condemn your beliefs, since nobody on the planet can prove who's right and wrong, and saying so would assume greater knowledge than one has.

Great comment, Jeff. Spot on.

My grandparents had the same issue with bigoted churches refusing to marry them, and they never had the divorce factor. Ridiculous.

Apparently the WWJD thing was fun for wristbands, but no good for real life. Just great.

I think Jeff also raised a valid point that mans interpretation severely affects our Religion. My father was raised catholic, my mother presbyterian, she had to be baptized for them to get married.

Pagan_Hunter
To your questions of "how do you know there is god, if so what do you chose, how do you know this"

It's really simple and it's called faith. How they get up every morning and have faith in god, is no different than how they get up everymorning and have faith in themselves and the world. How do i know I'm not going to get hit by a car? struck by lightning? Mugged? You don't. But you have faith. You have to accept that there are things that we will never, and can never fully understand, or know. These could be the last words I ever type, I don't know that they wont, correct?

I personally have no religious belief, but I am sick of Religions tearing each other apart. Especially Pagans or Athiests condemning others beliefs and claiming that they are enlightened and the masses are like sheep. Not to say Christians/muslims/jewish etc don't, its just that highschool was recent, and teeming with wannabe communists and athiests.

This thread that paganhunter has posted is a classic sign of what we call trolling in forums. You post a question or make a statement that you know is going to be controversial and cause a stir, then reply to the people who comment on your thread in a way to further provoke them even in a polite way sometimes, to continue to keep the conversation going and thus racking up more points, or counts or stars on a forum. Bravo paganhunter, you have wasted every ones time and did exactly what you set out to do, troll.
And I cant help but laugh that you gave your self away so easily by saying that you were once a christian, but now you want to know what Christians think, lmao too funny man. Christianity hasn't changed much since you were a christian, no matter how long its been.

If all paths are valid, then none of them are....

Pagan_Hunter

With all due respect for you and your somewhat misguided philosophy, I would like to add that most of the folks who post on here are good folks who fear the good Lord GOD Almighty, Jehovah and do not cotton to your twisted logic. Some of the young 'uns might have a little trouble expressing their points of view here, but are well grounded in their faith. You and evolutionists like Ken.Mcloud are barking up the wrong tree. The Lord will have little mercy on your soul at the judgement seat. If you can't abandon you blasphemy and repent, eternity in the Lake of Fire will be a long, long time. But of course if you don't believe that will happen, you can live in your bliss until that day....

the best argument to one god and that being the christian god is that the bible is to my understanding tihe only religious book containg prophecy and depending on whose numbers you look at has had many of these fufilled (from several hundred to thousand depending on whose nubers you use) and if the conclusions bring you to the conclusion that it is the word of God then there is only one because the bible says. And as for the inconsistancys in it I do think most of it is in error of translation, when someone more educated than I comment and discuss them they seem to disappear.

1) I do not know there is only one god only GOD could know that

2) I know my religion is the one for me to follow because it is the one I was born into and the one I have chosen to stay in. If god wants us in another religion he makes it happen or at least strongly suggests, free will and all.

3) if there is one true path then we all are on it or have been given the choice daily.

The fool hath said in his heart there is no God, Proverbs.

All three of them! Have a happy Thanksgiving!

WMH

And that includes you, Pagan_ Hunter

This is a fishing and hunting forum, brother........ Why start a religious debate?

http://www.family-outdoors.com/

Believing in many gods is the same as believing in no gods. There is only one truth not many truths. There is right and there is wrong, nothing in between.

OH, excuse me Bella! I was not aware that you were there for Christ's death. Jesus "gave up the ghost" on his own. Jesus said " Into thy hands I commit my spirit" talking to his heavenly father. He did not die because of the cross, He gave up his life willingly so that all who will repent can have eternal life.

Buddhism, taoism, Hinduism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto,all these faiths and more came to be without anything to do with the "bible". A big problem with the Bible is the fact that almost nobody reads the original texts, which were themselves heavily redacted by politicians back in AD. 404. Buddist, Hindu and the sacred texts of many other faiths exist entire in the original languages and are truer to the intent of the writers. God has spoken to every people on the earth, through a thousand different holy men. To maintain the obnoxious claim that only "your" version of divinity is real and everybody else's experience of God is delusionary only disses other people and pisses them off. But most of the self rightious evangelical types I have met actually Like to piss people off. They thrive on dissent, and usually try to expand their egos at others expense. Constantly harping about others they see as less rightious than themselves, they are the very embodyment of everything their "Savior" preached against. Yeshua taught love, toleration, and the Golden Rule, but one sees none of this in the so called Christian Right. I accept the beauty and wonder of the glory of the Divine in All of the forms the Divine reveals to mortals, I am unwilling to bind God, or put limits on the wonder and diversity of God, such would be Hubris. But I know that We are all part God, all born of the Gods and that without that spark of God within, we are just meat. Is there some purpose to suggesting that God only resides within a tiny few, when opening one's eyes tells us that God is within Everyone (just some are blinded to that Light)? Would anyone be so self possessed as to suggest that God is within them, but that others are not? Some of such individuals (Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptists, for instance) claim to be possessed of the Spirit, but then act so vile that anyone not co-opted by him already might guess that he was possessed by the spirit of Bealzebub, Lord of the Flies rather than the loving, tolerant spirit of Yeshua bin Yussef. (Jesus is a greek name, Yeshua was a Jew).
Most scientists recognise that science is to religion like math is to Art. Apples and oranges. One doesn't need to prove the existance of the Divine (by any label) with instruments because the proof is in your own heart. You seek God (of whatever sort) by looking within, not without. Yeshua himself taught this.
Certainly modern brain research suggests that persons in the midst of a devotional practice experience massive dopamine release. This would suggest that either our experience of the Divine is "hormonal" or that even more exciting possibility that we have evolved to experience God. God loves us do we were given built in dopamine and endorphins to experience God. But is there Christian Dopamine, Islamic dopamine and Buddhist Dopamine? No there is Dopamine and it is the same for Jew and Jaina. You can be getting that holy feeling in a church or in a sweatlodge, because you make it yourself. You provide the cultural context from your milleau, but that only makes your Dopamine Divinity experience truely yours. To claim that only Your version of God dispenses Dopamine is merely ethnocentric and egocentric. Get over it. Go make some dopamine for yourself in church.

Many of us were raised by persons claiming to be christian, or taught by those who claimed to be christian, but who as time unfolded revealed how they merely used "christianity" as a cover, foil and excuse for doing vile things to others. So Paganhunters position is valid, because in general the number of folks who use purported "christianity" as a tool to achieve their agendas outnumber those who adhere to the teachings of Yeshua Bin Yussif in their hearts. Hitler used christianity when it suited him and "Gott icht mitt Uns" was a slogan seen as often under the Fyflot Flag as under the Stars and Stripes. But we won and they lost so....
I don't like Fascists, but in general claiming the sole support of a monotheistic (and antagonistic) Deity is a typical tactic.
God IS within us All, just some are blind to the Light within and others deny the Light of Gods in others, because their ego and selfishness blind them to possibilities. Are there Many Gods or One?
There are many different people who might each happen to see God each in their own way. It is the God within each of us that is the most important to each of us, whether that expression of Divinity be seen as unitary or faceted. If I personnaly have a ministry, it is to assist others to witness the Divinity within themselves, rather than to enforce my own dogmas. So are there one God or Many? Doesn't really matter. What matters is your own relationship with the Divine, not mine. Mine is none of yer cottin' pickin' business.
Blessed Be.

I only have one thing to say to the writer of this page, pick a Bible up and actually read it, think about what it is saying, comprehend it, enjoy it, pray to God. Then all of these questions that you are asking will be answered.

I am often puzzeled myself by the ethnocentricity I encounter in so many American Christians, especially those who like alabamaoutlaw use a generic term (god) and assume that their version of Divinity has sole right to be defined by it. I find many Christians to be paragons of ignorance, even about their own faith! It isn't as if Christianity is secret or something, but such people attribute things to Jesus that he didn't say and didn't preach, all to justify their own petty prejudices under a veneer of false sanctity.
Prophesy is easy and is no special monopoly of monotheists, just as spiritual healing or miracles are no monopoly of monotheism either.
I have joined people of many faiths in worship, giving due respect to each and I can tell you that I have felt the Divine Spirit's touch at most of 'em. Of course if you walk into the Ashram or the Temple with your mind closed you wouln't notice a thing.
I think many so called christians blind themselves with this "mine is better than yours" sort of delusion. Most of you who claim this conceit (that your version of god "is the Only True whatever") have no scale to measure how or why they feel personally superior and favored other than that they simply feel that way. Why would one want to say such a thing as my God is the onlyest and yours is false, unless one was trying to score points or something in some kind of weird contest. Poor self esteem perhaps? Perhaps in making this statement a person is trying to make another person feel demeaned, one certainly wouldn't attempt to prove the superiority of one's God with such a tactic, as it proves nothing and offers no evidence except that of the ego of the speaker.
My own take is that we are all born of the Gods, and many of them are our ancestors. Is a body proposing that somebody elses ancestors weren't Gods but that his is?
We have always elevated our notables to "god" status, Roman Emperors used to insist on worship (that is what they actually nailed Yeshua up for, is refusing to worship Augustus as Jove).
We treat our sports stars like demigods and enshrine them in the respective "hall of fame" when they are dead or sufficiently retired. Celebrity Bimbo's are feted like fertility goddesses and Presidents get Libraries and if they are sufficiently Great, their own temples and monuments.
The Egyptian God Thoth was once a man, and it is likely Allfather Odin was as well. I know of my own name that I am descended from Frey the Good Who was once a man, just as Yeshua was. Am I to deny my own ancestors for someone not of my blood? My blood is that of northern peoples and just because St. Olaf converted Norway at the point of a sword (as did Charlemagne) doesn't mean that 10 or 20 generations later people should feel allegiance to such a forced choice.
In the end, you have to face that which you believe in alone. It doesn't matter at that time if the God you believed in was one of one or one of many, it is just you and the Divinity, the number of people you have "converted" means nothing, your wealth means nothing, and your delusions will only hold you from going on. It is important that you believe in something at that time when you die, but your blaming, your recriminations, your prejudices, none of that is worth a fart when it is just you and the Divine (however you see Her/ Him/It or Them.
It serves nothing but only irritates people when fundies get all hepped up on denouncing everybody else they perceive as sinners. Many so-called Christians seem to think that their own pronounciations of religious fervor are the only allowable declarations of faith and that because they don't want to hear that others believe differently or don't hold their dogmatic prejudices, such are invalid and shouldn't be "allowed". One rule for us, another rule for all those "unbelievers" out there. Once again people mistaking ethnocentrism for religious certainty.
I have spiritual certainty because I worked for it, with ordeals I wouln't go into culminating in a powerful spiritual vision I have no interest in enlightening you about. Go get your own vision!
But I am never so foolish as to put limits on the minds and powers of the Gods (whatever their origin), the Divine is indwelling in us all and to say that these people over here have true faith, while these do not denys the simple fact that All People have a little God in them (that is why the Gods are omnipresent) and only those with dead souls themselves would deny the light of the Gods that shines through the eyes of any happy child or any loving mother or proud father. The Lakotah say "we are all relatives" and everything science and faith tells us reinforces this, that we are all related.
To say "my God is true but yours is satanic devil worship" is to deny the ties between us all and seek dominion for the sake of a man made dogma. Mankind has always made it's own Gods as time has past, look at the Really Really Long view and you see how even the Gods themselves evolve.
And Alabamaoutlaw, I did the soul searching and it lead me to my present beliefs.
The Mormons when they send missionaries to try to convert people will tell people to do "the Moroni Test" wherein you read the Book of Mormon (or attempt to do so, Mark Twain called it "cloroform in print") and then pray about it, whence apon, so they say a still small voice will assure you as to the B of M's veracity. But if you do this thing and pray about it as suggested and the still small voice tells you the B of M is pure baloney, then the they will tell you that you did it wrong as the only answer that is acceptable to them is that the B of M is valid. Actually the Book of Mormon may be the worst book ever plagiarized and it is almost completely unreadable...but hey, if you want to believe something, you will.
So thank you for your blessing and I bless you in turn that you will see the beauty of the diversity of God in your own time. For God is generic.

Rabbitgestapo, Questions are more important than answers because they star the inquiry process by which new knowlege is brought forth. There is ALWAYS more than one answer to any question. It all depends on how the question is framed.
Truth and correct action are always situational, light itself comes in multiple colors and wavelengths (most we cannot even see). The only true constant I know of at the moment is the speed of light.

Believing in many gods is by no means anything like atheism or agnosticism even. I could say the same of you, that believing in only one God, who chooses to have so little to do with mortals as yours does is almost the same as atheism, but it serves no point. Rabbity person, you fail to see that, as we are both Deists, we should by rights be in unity, My belief system doesn't exclude yours, I just happen to firmly believe that ice cream comes in more flavors than vanilla and that Diversity is the law of the universe.
The Truth is in Diversity, not exclusivity, as there are many different kinds of Stars in many different kinds of galaxies, then there are many kinds of Gods and Goddesses, just as there are many different kinds of people. Your monotheism is solely ethnocentrism and your insistance on closing your mind to the infinate realm of possibilities that truely exist. You actually Deny the Gods in your hubris, but then you wouldn't know or care about the dire sin of hubris. But Hubris always catches up with men...
I love the Gods who have blessed and sustained me, I have walked a very hard path for my beliefs and why should I care if Lepus confuses me with an Athiest, as far as right and wrong goes, often thatr choice is situational, as any adult who has lived a while will inform you. There is no black or white but only shades of grey.
Fundimentalists and persons with borderline personality disorder resort to Black/white binary thinking because it allows them to catagorize the whole world easily if inaccurately when they try to have their prejudices enshrined as law. But life is full of choices, and often you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
You live a long time and you come to see that quite a few folks are perminantly whipsawed by choices that weren't wrong when they made them, but were the best choices they had at the time. Nope, the world is not black and white, but a thousand shades of brilliant color. Binary thinking- black/ white my way or the highway decision making will only get you into trouble in life. No decision you can make in society is without implications or consequences, but just as you cannot perceive all the wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum (but only a tiny band of light) there are always other options you may not be aware of. But not if your mind is closed.
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when opened.

Sorry about the double posting, my server was slow and I wasn't sure it had loaded.
And just because you think you have some monopoly on God, doesn't mean that you do. Perhaps this is why the Christians God answers to few of His adherents prayers, because so many of them are requesting things that Yeshua would never approve of, Like Hegemony and Egoism!
Dogmatists always object to anything that conflicts with their carefully surmised worldviews, because their minds are closed. They wish to cherish their prejudices and justify them with misinterpeted "scripture", so they can continue on with their blind lives heedless of the harm they do others with their self rightious attitudes.

To Fluger I say, the Question was what was important in the first place, not the Answer. As I said before it doesn't really matter if there are many Gods or One, There are many different cultures where the Divine is seen in different ways, America is a multicultural society with room for all at the table. If you don't accept this multicultural principle, then you just weren't taught a fundimental American Principle! You want diversity in what you eat and drink, you like Polish Sausage and Italian Spagetti and Chinese Kung Pau Chicken. You wanna drive your Japanese (forgive me, Korean..) car and shoot that shotgun made in Turkey while you eat yer bananas and liken to English Rockers. But you can't have diversity in all this other stuff without opening the door spiritually as well, and well, Western Civilization has no monopoly on God. So Muse on that while you drink a nice South African Reisling with your Pad Thai.