Remember also for all you gun owners out there that think you are protected by the 2nd Amendment that a big spinoff of these gun sales to Mexico by our arrogant, do as we want administration, was to create the case that guns in this country were killing innocent people because of the problem at the border, and an international problem that would be dealt with through international laws getting around the 2nd Amendment.

The programs ran by the Dept. of Justice and the BATF-E are an example of this administration's over zealous attempt to pin the problems of the cartels in Mexico on our lawfully operating and legitimate gun brokers and re-sellers. Enough evidence exists to support Rep. Issa's claim that Eric Holder in fact knew that these firearms would be allowed to walk over the border and into the hands of the cartels. Holder's DOJ agents even advised the gun store owners in Arizona and other states, that they were required by law to sell the weapons involved such as those that killed US Customs and Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry to individuals that the gun store owners were suspicious about.

I fully support Rep. Issa's holding of Eric Holder in Contempt of Congress- write your congressman and urge him or her to support Darrel Issa (R-CA) in holding Eric Holder's and Obama's feet to the fire.

Let's just have some accountability for dumbass policy and failed programs. I know I am accountable at work. How about you?

Hoski, thanks for the welcome back- the BATF-E has had an acting director that stepped down, Kenneth Melsom quite some time ago. Holder has changed his position on file footage and in depositions stating that at first, he had no knowledge of this program, and now he has admitted to knowing about it and other programs like it.

The BATF-E will not live this one down, neither should the DOJ. Holder has been above the law that his department is sworn to uphold. I certainly hope that he's out on his heels soon. He's no friend to any gun owner, and definitely needs to take responsibility for his overall jurisdiction for the BATF-E. Obama has been quick to seal the records related to Brian Terry's death; how does that compare to the "most transparent administration" pledge from his campaign?

Rat, it don't believe the issue is "gun dealer profits". It's knowingly putting guns in the hands of thugs to further a political agenda and then these same guns being used in crimes against Americans namely Border and Law enforcement agents. Of course you're not concerned because CNN hardly touched the story. And it seems clear that Holder has blood on his hands. To be fair to the current administration, the ATF has a long history of major F'ups.

Obama bought everyone off to get his ObamaCare passed, and that is a fact! I jam it up AARP's arse everytime they call! And they can't avoid me, because I found the number to call! Obama bought off AARP, and 60,000 subscribers dropped AARP because they were bought off...the fatcats at the top were bought off. And the poor wonder where the money is? Where's the money Obama promised us?...it went to his fatcat contributors...tax payer money went to his fatcat contributors, many of them billionaires.

Issa asked Holder if he had punished ANYONE yet for their disgraceful administering of the program? "NO NOT YET." Holder is up against a tough one in ISSA. The guy takes no prisoners.

No TV here Steve 182.

And I haven't followed this story at all. Uninteresting. Not that I don't value the lives of the agents concerned and heck coming from a Christian society one has to value every life lost wether they are US, Mexican, criminal, or LEO, right?

Doesn't law enforcement allow criminals, spies, drug dealers, mafioso, to continue to operate to find out who the guys at the top are? Isn't this fairly SOP?

Just asking.

by the way rock, if you truly don't have a TV i'm envious of you. I can't imagine how much better my kids would be without the "boob-tube" and then how much easier my life would be.

Rat, while letting some criminals get a free pass to take out the head honcho does happen in law enforcement this is a bit different, and you know it!

Telling FFL Holders to sell to suspect individuals, letting the guns get across the border, and then specifically saying infront of the media that most guns going to Mexico are from America, is just a ploy to try and bring about more gun laws in the U.S. It's sickening that our government allowed this to happen, and then tried to make a case for more gun laws because of their own stupidity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgkh_1sgFrs
Obama is either a fool or a liar.

whitetailfreek,
I think you're combining a couple different issues.
Yes, lower level bad guys are let go as bait all the time, and in this instance it could very well be the case.
The issue of some honcho announcing that most of the guns the cartels are using to further their criminal empire has been shown to be mostly black market military arms, as we all know, civilians don't walk into any gun store and buy automatic or belt fed arms.
Wasn't that Mexican President (Fox?) who made some speech about backdoor gun control? And if so, why in the world would any thinking American citizen put any stock in anything a Mexican politician has to say?
He**, most of us know enough not to put a lot of faith our own promise.

Again, you guys lose your focus. The big intent of the govt was to enact GUN CONTROL. It backfired on them, but the key here is they wanted to enact gun control through international law. There are so many examples of this by liberal organizations, and congress folks supporting anti-hunting and fishing it is hard for me to think that liberals on a thread like this are hunters, or fishermen...called charlatans. Did I spell charlatan right?

whitetailfreek,
I agree "if" that was the intent.
I think it was a more straight forward attempt to just trace the network and ID the culprits, and it got away from them, whether from ineptitude, visions of grandeur, or just plain stupidity.
Assigning a more devious end game (US gun control) to the operation as it's original intent is a bit of a stretch.

bubber,
are you sure you wouldn't want to go back to the birther conspiracy?

A top priority Whitetail...restrict gun ownership. That's why they did it.

whitetailfreek,
Yes, I did watch the clip. You'll notice I trust, President Obama said we have a responsibility to stop the demand for drugs here and to stop the southerly flow of cash and guns to Mexico.

So exactly where do you make the leap from controlling guns illegally crossing the border, to a country wide backdoor gun control policy that he's never proposed?

Please whitetailfreek, please please please, tell me you're not one of the conspiracy theorists who see hidden motives behind every utterance.

International law Obama intended to use to control gun ownership avoiding the constitution. Used under the guise that we, the ugly capitalists are selling guns to the Mexican drug cartels...a lie. The left promoted the notion that sales were rampant. And the story went south when the govt was caught selling guns. My conservative blogs identified this administrations attempt to limit gun ownership long before they were even caught in Operation Gun Runner.

Thanks for jumping in here Sarge with your wisdom.
Now perhaps you'll be so kind as to explain to us how "Fast and Furious", which involved civilian arms somehow presto changoed to fully automatics.
Then when that's accomplished, you could detail the "white Gun" operation and how it likewise magically changed civilian arms to military arms.

I had several HS students make the easy conversion. How'd you like to be on hoski's side of the fence defending every liberal policy? Life would really be good would it not?

Boy that's a hoot!
Let's see, as a class project snafu brings to class a firearm and the conversion parts and educates his students on the ease of converting a civilian firearm into a fully automatic military arm.
Does anyone see anything just slightly suspicious here?

That's not the only kind of "Back Door" maneuvers that bunch orchestrates!

Sarge,
First off, evidently you haven't been paying attention. I have repeatedly posted my opinion concerning Mr. Holder...come to think of it I'm sure you read them because you also commented.
Secondly, I cannot find any reference to the 2 firearms recovered at the scene as being converted from civilian semi-auto to select fire or full auto.
Were they from Lone Wolf Trading in Arizona? Yes.
Were they converted to full auto? Don't know.
But either way, I'll ask you too: how many gun control pieces of legislation has Obama proposed again?

Oh yeah, emails from the crazy cousin don't count as reliable sources.

I just find it hard to believe that Obama did not know of this operation that the ATF was working. And if he didn't, then that looks even worse! A President that doesn't even know what the hell is going on within LE departments is sad and pathetic. And why the hell isn't Eric Holder fired yet?

You are correct, Homaski! Obabble has not, himself, offered up one single, solitary bit of "Gun" legislation!
Nor has he made any attempt at defeating or getting rid of any existing, useless, lame, ignorant, gun legislation!
Can you say, "Guilty by association!", or maybe, "Guilt by exclusion!"?
What kind of "ANY" legislation has Obabble actually offered up?
Well, NONE, of any consequence! Ex: No budget in 1000 days!
Obabble only tells his minions what he expects, then signs whatever they foist upon the American public.
THAT WAY, his hands are clean.....!

Obabble has GOT to go!

Bubba

It's called "Mob Mentality"

whitetailfreek,
Run rather poorly?
Oh I don't know Freek, our military hasn't had to shell any cities here at home lately because the citizens were getting fiesty, (see Syria, Libya for instance). We haven't hung a former leader in ages.
Was Fast and Furious run poorly? You bet.
Ill conceived? I don't know, as somebody else here has said we have a history of letting littler fish go in hopes of catching bigger ones. At the very least as soon as the arms crossed the border swarms of agents should've made arrests, then sweat the littler fish to give up the bigger ones.
Concerning your view about the dept heads of our many agencies who deal with law enforcement, border security, Immigration Control, etc. for sure there needs to be better co-ordination. But as a former Marine I'm quite sure you're familiar with the various dept heads you had to deal with and their protection of their own little fiefdoms.
Now is our Govt. way too big? Now we're back to my point about there being 360 million or so of us. As we grow, as different circumstances arise, so does the need to deal with them.
Should we combine the agencies I mentioned above into one, with only one directer, who will likewise be even more powerful?
You are familiar with the legacy of J. Edgar Hoover's FBI right.
That should serve as a pretty good example of why too much authority shouldn't be in one person's hands.

whitetailfreek,
Please tell me just which part of our Govt. services you'd do away with. Obviously, at some point a majority of citizens must have thought whatever agency you choose to examine was a pretty good idea and worth funding.
Per streamlining, are you perhaps referring to the proposition President Obama made when he asked for Congressional approval to combine several agencies with overlapping and redundant services? I would like to point out that historically, Presidents have had the authority to take such actions on their own when necessary but until quite recently the authority has been rescinded. Obama would like to combine 5 different housing agencies that are redundant and at least a dozen dealing with food and drug safety thereby reducing the size of Govt and shrinking the federal workforce...so why does Congress oppose such measures? Could it be the ugly head of "if Obama wants it, we have to fight it" making another appearance?

I would beg to differ on the race issue. Obama is as much Caucasian as he is African, not even raised in the black community as far as we can document (Barry Soetero?). He is who he is because of his raising, education, and politics. More goverment control of ANYTHING is not good for us citizens, we are controlled to the point of asphixiation already. Big government politics and power grabbing brought us Obama, not the other way around.

whitetailfreek,
Correct on the party that held majorities in both houses...so you may ask yourself why 18 months were spent debating and ultimately passing healthcare legislation. One could even go so far as to ask, "geez, as long as we held both houses why didn't we just ram it through in a week or two and be done with it and move on to bigger and better things"?
The truth is 18 months were spent trying to get a bipartisan piece of legislation, and in the end somewhere around 175 Republican amendments were included...so enough with the it coulda been done quickly huh? Not to mention Obama's campaign platform cornerstone was healthcare.
As for the position of "if Obama wants it--we have to fight it" smacking of having racial undertones, it has absolutely nothing to do with skin color...I am merely repeating what Senator M. McConnell has openly declared as his prime agenda from day one.

Now there's another brilliant display of deep thinking.