I shot my first deer with a .243 when I was 13. That 7 point buck dropped in his tracks with a shot through the heart, and it's dropped many other deer and coyotes since then. That Rem. 700 in 243 remains one of my favorite guns today.
For the Texas whitetail I encounter, I'd say that the .243 is a superb hunting cartridge.
Yes, but if you want to appear more savvy to your hunting buds, get a .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, or 6.5x55 Swedish. Everybody except me has a .243 Win. Boring and not a very good selection of bullet weights suitable for deer or larger game.
The gun is plentey capable of killing a deer, and I have killed many deer with my dads .243, but given the choice I would choose something a little bigger like a .270 or 25-06.
I know, as so eloquently pointed out already, legions of deer have fallen to the .243/6mm but I'm just not a fan, I prefer more bullet weight, therefore the lightest I prefer is the .257 Roberts.
Yes it is a very good deer rifle. It works very good for hunting in the Sandhills of Western Nebraska. I have killed many deer using this gun. Mostly any gun will kill a deer if you know where to shoot.
My first deer and thin skinned dedicated rifle was a Browning BLR in 243 topped with a Leupold VX 2-8 power scope. I dropped well over 3 dozen, picked my shots carefully and only had 1 that I needed to track more than 50 yards and found him quickly after i figured out he rolled down a hill side. Almost every one dropped in their tracks. I used factory loaded 100 grain Remington Cor lokts soft points and they performed well. No meat spoilage, not much recoil, all around good round and darn near perfect rifle when you need to scabbard your firearm for whitetail out to 200 yards.
A friend of mine shot a deer this year with his .243 hitting it in the shoulder. The bullet did not penetrate the rib cage. The deer kept going on its other 3 legs and was finished off by his hunting partner about a quarter mile away. My .308 would have dropped it in its tracks (I speak from plenty of experience) with the same shot and would have caused no more damage to the meat. I agree with the point that accuracy is most important but knock down power is also a factor - especially in heavily hunted public lands where a deer could be shot by others if it does not go down right away. I have also heard complaints from hunters in heavy brush that the .243 can deflect easily but not having hunted with one myself, I am not sure if it was deflecting or just bad aiming...
I am always amazed that we think that a .243 is a gun for young and inexperienced beginning hunters . Just the opposite it should be a rifle for an experienced hunter that can place his shot at a very exact spot to cleanly kill the deer. The .243 is not a "rifle for young hunters and women" like we hear alot unless they are expert shots. Of course I will go on record as saying I don't think that it is a fine deer rifle at all.
Sarge, i believe it is good for women and young hunters because they won't be scared of it, allowing them to develop good shooting habits without a flinch. I do not believe it is a good caliber for anyone who is not selective about their shots, but few calibers are. I have watched a couple kids at our camp literally drill deer with the .243 and drop'em right in their footprints, but these kids are good hunters and riflemen. I have also seen the internal results from that speedy little pill and have though maybe it need not be so fast. It's no bonecrusher but in my experience it's very effective on average sized whitetails. Perhaps not a good choice in Maine or Saskatchewan.
I think that the point that I was trying to make was that everyone says the .243 is a fine caliber for kids and women but dosen't imply that it is a good caliber for adult men. If it is a good caliber for kids and women then it is good for seasoned adult men. Still personally I don't perfer it for deer hunting however I'm sure alot of people have had success with the caliber. I know an old man near me that has killed a truck load of deer with a .22 Hornet but I don't consider it a fine deer cartridge either.
I'm with Sarge, in my limited experience, shot placement is very important with the .243
Just this morning I found out that my brother-in-law lost a deer he shot Friday at dark using his grandson's .243 Handi-Rifle. My sis says there was lots of blood but the trail was lost in the dark. No luck on finding it the next day either. I don't know other details such as shot placement and load.
Last year my wife lost what would of been her first deer when she hit it with a Barnes 85 grain TSX bullet from her .243 Handi-Rifle. We were in a pop-up blind sitting on a Management Area food plot when a nice buck walked out at last light about 50 yards away. She took a steady rest, fired, and we both saw the buck go down right where he stood, just over a little rise from us. I told her to reload and quickly exit so that we could finish the job if needed. Much to our surprise, there was no deer, no blood, and no indication of which way he had escaped. I searched around for another hour and never found a blood trail. Because of work and warm weather, I didn't return the next day so we never found it. The coyotes probably got a good meal.
Our best guess is that she held too high and the bullet impacted the area between the top of the lungs and the spine. Being a smaller probably means less shock to transfer when missing the vitals. Before the end of the week we went to the range with a full deer paper target containing highlighted vitals. She practiced until comfortable in hitting the kill zone at 100 yards. A week later she made a perfect double lung shot on a small buck to claim her first 'recovered' deer.
I'm considering sending her receiver to H&R after this hunting season to have a 7mm-08 or .308 barrel fitted.
It depends on the bullet. A varmint bullet will likely explode without causing much damage. A good big game bullet should expand, but retain most of its weight. Good shot placement is a necessity regardless of caliber. The .243 is based on the .308 cartridge and is part of a family of cartridges that includes the .260 Rem. and the 7mm-08, all good deer cartridges. The Barnes TSX bullet, being solid copper should be a great bullet for deer.
I'm not a big fan of them you step up to a .270 or 30-06 and you have so many more bullet choices if you ever want to shoot an elk or something bigger than a deer.
I just finished my 6th box of various grains and bullet styles in my new 243 Handi rifle. 4 cartridges left, shot them with 2 being 2 inches apart followed by 2 being 6" and 12" below the first 2. Tried different scope with little improvement. After the last 4 shots, I was off to the sporting goods store to return my cute little single shot.
I received store credit, bought an Axis Savage in 243 along with
another box of shells. I came home with a 3x9 scope. I shot it at 25 yards, adjusted it and moved back to 100 yards. Shot 6 times with some adjusting. My last 3 shots I could cover with a quarter. The trigger is really stiff, so I know that I am looking at a rifle that is capable of shooting 3 shots and cover
them with a dime.
A gentleman who sights most of the stores rifles in said to me;
see all of these thousand dollar and up rifles, your new rifle will compete with almost all of them. Smart buy.
You had the same experience with your Handi Rifle that I had with the 2 that I had in .243. Didn't own them long. As far as the Savage Axis competing with the other rifles, notice he said almost and not all. They do shoot good but won't shoot with my Tikka, Sako or my Weatherby. My buddy has one in .308 and it shoots good too. Don't lose the clip, he did and had an awful time getting another one. Your gunsmith may be able to do something with the trigger.
Shucks, with those Axis/Edge rifles being so accurate and all, Big Green and Ed Weatherby better find another line of work. But you can't wash off fugly.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time long ago. She was an expert cook, was fine in bed, but she was so ugly you had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly you have to look at them all of the time and I can look at my Sako and Weatherby and smile.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time. She was a great cook and was great lover but I had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly, I can look at my Sako and my Weatherby and smile.
I've had good success with our two Handi-Rifles and have no complaints about accuracy. My .45-70 will put three rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards.
Absolutely, I have taken three deer this season with a remington 700 in .243 win with a tasco 4x32 scope. After borrowing the gun I fired a few shots to check zero and went hunting. With no previous experience with high-powered rifles I took these deer at 200-300 yards. One other deer appeared to be hit(mule-kicked and ran like its tail was on fire) but was never recovered. Blame it the stupidity of the shooter not the power of the gun. It was almost dark at aprox. 300 yards with a rifle I had barely used from the sitting position. Deer probably died in a creek, log pile, or across the property lines wich weren't far away. The rest of the deer died on the spot or within a few yards. Oh,and none of my shots were perfect either. One-lungers mostly. Keep your shots under 300 yds., learn to shoot, and you will do fine. However, from my research I consider the 25-06 and 7mm-08 better deer guns for the low-recoil enthusiast.
willisriverbuck,
Did you look for the buck that got away, it sounded like you didn't even look for it. Was there a blood trail or anything ? Were the shots measured or are you guessing at the yardage ? 300 yards is an alwful long ways from a sitting position, with an unfamiliar rifle. About the only thing that I gather from your post is that yes a 25-06 or a 7MM-08 makes a better deer gun.
I did look for the doe that got away, both that evening and the next day. I found some blood, but it rained right after I shot the deer making blood trailing almost impossible. The property line was only about 75 yards away downhill. The deer was running towards the preperty line when I last saw it. I was not able to mesasure the distance because of terrain and lack of a range finder. The distance is a guess, but I have measured similar distances by stepping them off. I only compared it to similar known distances. I was unclear in my last post. Under 300 yards a .243 is a great deer gun, if you know how to shoot it. However, if you can stand the slight increase in recoil the 25-06 and 7mm-08 make for better blood-letters.
The 243 is a good deer round, with the right bullet and proper shot placement they will go down quick every time. If you hand load try the Barnes bullet I shoot a 85 gr TSX and it works well. Keep your shots under 300 yds and it will serve you well.
No doubt the .257 is a great round as well as the .280. I love my .280 and have killed two elk with it. Having said that a deer is nothing compared to an elk. A .300 is way over kill, as I have yet to track an elk that I have shot with my .300. The .243 is a great round for deer. If shot is placed right you will not even track the deer. I have only taken a few deer with my .243 but one was a nice mule deer and the thing folded in its tracks at 400 yards according the the range finder. What I love about the .243 is the trajectory and the bullet selection. I prefer the 95 grain superformance hornady's. The .25-06 is another gun I love but just don't get it out much now that I have my new .243.
it will do especially with a well constructed bullet around 100 grains. personally i am a fan of .25 or even 6.5 to give you a better selection. the 25-06 has my heart.
I have used the 243in a Mod 100/Winchester for 20+ years in New York State a truck load of Deer a two bares all with the 80Gr Rem Ammo I fond the 100Gr to Damaging on 165# white tails....so spend your Money on a Good Rifle in the Caliber of your Chose. I now use a 7MM-08 it stops Hogs Faster with 140Gr Hornady Ammo.
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
Like many of the folks here, i have heard hunters swear by their .243 and tell me how many deer they have killed. I am not as fond of the round as they are. Although it is quite capable of killing a deer and is just as good for men as it is for women and children, I would choose a .270, 7mm mag. or 30-06.
I still hear stories from other friends talking about the one that got away when their .243's couldn't bring down a big buck. Whitetail deer are thin skinned light boned animals and you don't always need a large caliber to bring them down. But remember that a sacrifice in power puts even more emphasis on making a great shot. I would not take anything but a broadside shot on a deer with .243 whereas a 30-06 for example has the power to blast through the shoulder. Plus the 30-06 or .270 are versatile rounds for most of North America's game species.
A little Smart car will get me from point A to point B, but my full sized loaded Ford Taurus will get me there quicker and alot more comfortable. Point being small will marginally get the job done but not for me bigger is better and for me that is my .280 Remington or my 300WSM. Since all of my shots are high shoulder shots those two rifles are my choices. That is why they make all of the calibers that they make so all of us will have a favorite choice of what we want to use. If we only had one choice for a cartridge it would be boring.
my 53 year old hunting partner has a 243 rem 700 and only one deer did not drop in its tracks and theat was a butt shot i have whitnessed hin drop several deer with it
I shot my first deer with a .243 when I was 13. That 7 point buck dropped in his tracks with a shot through the heart, and it's dropped many other deer and coyotes since then. That Rem. 700 in 243 remains one of my favorite guns today.
For the Texas whitetail I encounter, I'd say that the .243 is a superb hunting cartridge.
Yes, but if you want to appear more savvy to your hunting buds, get a .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, or 6.5x55 Swedish. Everybody except me has a .243 Win. Boring and not a very good selection of bullet weights suitable for deer or larger game.
I know, as so eloquently pointed out already, legions of deer have fallen to the .243/6mm but I'm just not a fan, I prefer more bullet weight, therefore the lightest I prefer is the .257 Roberts.
Yes it is a very good deer rifle. It works very good for hunting in the Sandhills of Western Nebraska. I have killed many deer using this gun. Mostly any gun will kill a deer if you know where to shoot.
Sarge, i believe it is good for women and young hunters because they won't be scared of it, allowing them to develop good shooting habits without a flinch. I do not believe it is a good caliber for anyone who is not selective about their shots, but few calibers are. I have watched a couple kids at our camp literally drill deer with the .243 and drop'em right in their footprints, but these kids are good hunters and riflemen. I have also seen the internal results from that speedy little pill and have though maybe it need not be so fast. It's no bonecrusher but in my experience it's very effective on average sized whitetails. Perhaps not a good choice in Maine or Saskatchewan.
It depends on the bullet. A varmint bullet will likely explode without causing much damage. A good big game bullet should expand, but retain most of its weight. Good shot placement is a necessity regardless of caliber. The .243 is based on the .308 cartridge and is part of a family of cartridges that includes the .260 Rem. and the 7mm-08, all good deer cartridges. The Barnes TSX bullet, being solid copper should be a great bullet for deer.
You had the same experience with your Handi Rifle that I had with the 2 that I had in .243. Didn't own them long. As far as the Savage Axis competing with the other rifles, notice he said almost and not all. They do shoot good but won't shoot with my Tikka, Sako or my Weatherby. My buddy has one in .308 and it shoots good too. Don't lose the clip, he did and had an awful time getting another one. Your gunsmith may be able to do something with the trigger.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time long ago. She was an expert cook, was fine in bed, but she was so ugly you had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly you have to look at them all of the time and I can look at my Sako and Weatherby and smile.
The gun is plentey capable of killing a deer, and I have killed many deer with my dads .243, but given the choice I would choose something a little bigger like a .270 or 25-06.
My first deer and thin skinned dedicated rifle was a Browning BLR in 243 topped with a Leupold VX 2-8 power scope. I dropped well over 3 dozen, picked my shots carefully and only had 1 that I needed to track more than 50 yards and found him quickly after i figured out he rolled down a hill side. Almost every one dropped in their tracks. I used factory loaded 100 grain Remington Cor lokts soft points and they performed well. No meat spoilage, not much recoil, all around good round and darn near perfect rifle when you need to scabbard your firearm for whitetail out to 200 yards.
A friend of mine shot a deer this year with his .243 hitting it in the shoulder. The bullet did not penetrate the rib cage. The deer kept going on its other 3 legs and was finished off by his hunting partner about a quarter mile away. My .308 would have dropped it in its tracks (I speak from plenty of experience) with the same shot and would have caused no more damage to the meat. I agree with the point that accuracy is most important but knock down power is also a factor - especially in heavily hunted public lands where a deer could be shot by others if it does not go down right away. I have also heard complaints from hunters in heavy brush that the .243 can deflect easily but not having hunted with one myself, I am not sure if it was deflecting or just bad aiming...
I am always amazed that we think that a .243 is a gun for young and inexperienced beginning hunters . Just the opposite it should be a rifle for an experienced hunter that can place his shot at a very exact spot to cleanly kill the deer. The .243 is not a "rifle for young hunters and women" like we hear alot unless they are expert shots. Of course I will go on record as saying I don't think that it is a fine deer rifle at all.
I think that the point that I was trying to make was that everyone says the .243 is a fine caliber for kids and women but dosen't imply that it is a good caliber for adult men. If it is a good caliber for kids and women then it is good for seasoned adult men. Still personally I don't perfer it for deer hunting however I'm sure alot of people have had success with the caliber. I know an old man near me that has killed a truck load of deer with a .22 Hornet but I don't consider it a fine deer cartridge either.
I'm with Sarge, in my limited experience, shot placement is very important with the .243
Just this morning I found out that my brother-in-law lost a deer he shot Friday at dark using his grandson's .243 Handi-Rifle. My sis says there was lots of blood but the trail was lost in the dark. No luck on finding it the next day either. I don't know other details such as shot placement and load.
Last year my wife lost what would of been her first deer when she hit it with a Barnes 85 grain TSX bullet from her .243 Handi-Rifle. We were in a pop-up blind sitting on a Management Area food plot when a nice buck walked out at last light about 50 yards away. She took a steady rest, fired, and we both saw the buck go down right where he stood, just over a little rise from us. I told her to reload and quickly exit so that we could finish the job if needed. Much to our surprise, there was no deer, no blood, and no indication of which way he had escaped. I searched around for another hour and never found a blood trail. Because of work and warm weather, I didn't return the next day so we never found it. The coyotes probably got a good meal.
Our best guess is that she held too high and the bullet impacted the area between the top of the lungs and the spine. Being a smaller probably means less shock to transfer when missing the vitals. Before the end of the week we went to the range with a full deer paper target containing highlighted vitals. She practiced until comfortable in hitting the kill zone at 100 yards. A week later she made a perfect double lung shot on a small buck to claim her first 'recovered' deer.
I'm considering sending her receiver to H&R after this hunting season to have a 7mm-08 or .308 barrel fitted.
I'm not a big fan of them you step up to a .270 or 30-06 and you have so many more bullet choices if you ever want to shoot an elk or something bigger than a deer.
I just finished my 6th box of various grains and bullet styles in my new 243 Handi rifle. 4 cartridges left, shot them with 2 being 2 inches apart followed by 2 being 6" and 12" below the first 2. Tried different scope with little improvement. After the last 4 shots, I was off to the sporting goods store to return my cute little single shot.
I received store credit, bought an Axis Savage in 243 along with
another box of shells. I came home with a 3x9 scope. I shot it at 25 yards, adjusted it and moved back to 100 yards. Shot 6 times with some adjusting. My last 3 shots I could cover with a quarter. The trigger is really stiff, so I know that I am looking at a rifle that is capable of shooting 3 shots and cover
them with a dime.
A gentleman who sights most of the stores rifles in said to me;
see all of these thousand dollar and up rifles, your new rifle will compete with almost all of them. Smart buy.
Shucks, with those Axis/Edge rifles being so accurate and all, Big Green and Ed Weatherby better find another line of work. But you can't wash off fugly.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time. She was a great cook and was great lover but I had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly, I can look at my Sako and my Weatherby and smile.
I've had good success with our two Handi-Rifles and have no complaints about accuracy. My .45-70 will put three rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards.
Absolutely, I have taken three deer this season with a remington 700 in .243 win with a tasco 4x32 scope. After borrowing the gun I fired a few shots to check zero and went hunting. With no previous experience with high-powered rifles I took these deer at 200-300 yards. One other deer appeared to be hit(mule-kicked and ran like its tail was on fire) but was never recovered. Blame it the stupidity of the shooter not the power of the gun. It was almost dark at aprox. 300 yards with a rifle I had barely used from the sitting position. Deer probably died in a creek, log pile, or across the property lines wich weren't far away. The rest of the deer died on the spot or within a few yards. Oh,and none of my shots were perfect either. One-lungers mostly. Keep your shots under 300 yds., learn to shoot, and you will do fine. However, from my research I consider the 25-06 and 7mm-08 better deer guns for the low-recoil enthusiast.
willisriverbuck,
Did you look for the buck that got away, it sounded like you didn't even look for it. Was there a blood trail or anything ? Were the shots measured or are you guessing at the yardage ? 300 yards is an alwful long ways from a sitting position, with an unfamiliar rifle. About the only thing that I gather from your post is that yes a 25-06 or a 7MM-08 makes a better deer gun.
I did look for the doe that got away, both that evening and the next day. I found some blood, but it rained right after I shot the deer making blood trailing almost impossible. The property line was only about 75 yards away downhill. The deer was running towards the preperty line when I last saw it. I was not able to mesasure the distance because of terrain and lack of a range finder. The distance is a guess, but I have measured similar distances by stepping them off. I only compared it to similar known distances. I was unclear in my last post. Under 300 yards a .243 is a great deer gun, if you know how to shoot it. However, if you can stand the slight increase in recoil the 25-06 and 7mm-08 make for better blood-letters.
The 243 is a good deer round, with the right bullet and proper shot placement they will go down quick every time. If you hand load try the Barnes bullet I shoot a 85 gr TSX and it works well. Keep your shots under 300 yds and it will serve you well.
No doubt the .257 is a great round as well as the .280. I love my .280 and have killed two elk with it. Having said that a deer is nothing compared to an elk. A .300 is way over kill, as I have yet to track an elk that I have shot with my .300. The .243 is a great round for deer. If shot is placed right you will not even track the deer. I have only taken a few deer with my .243 but one was a nice mule deer and the thing folded in its tracks at 400 yards according the the range finder. What I love about the .243 is the trajectory and the bullet selection. I prefer the 95 grain superformance hornady's. The .25-06 is another gun I love but just don't get it out much now that I have my new .243.
it will do especially with a well constructed bullet around 100 grains. personally i am a fan of .25 or even 6.5 to give you a better selection. the 25-06 has my heart.
I have used the 243in a Mod 100/Winchester for 20+ years in New York State a truck load of Deer a two bares all with the 80Gr Rem Ammo I fond the 100Gr to Damaging on 165# white tails....so spend your Money on a Good Rifle in the Caliber of your Chose. I now use a 7MM-08 it stops Hogs Faster with 140Gr Hornady Ammo.
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
Like many of the folks here, i have heard hunters swear by their .243 and tell me how many deer they have killed. I am not as fond of the round as they are. Although it is quite capable of killing a deer and is just as good for men as it is for women and children, I would choose a .270, 7mm mag. or 30-06.
I still hear stories from other friends talking about the one that got away when their .243's couldn't bring down a big buck. Whitetail deer are thin skinned light boned animals and you don't always need a large caliber to bring them down. But remember that a sacrifice in power puts even more emphasis on making a great shot. I would not take anything but a broadside shot on a deer with .243 whereas a 30-06 for example has the power to blast through the shoulder. Plus the 30-06 or .270 are versatile rounds for most of North America's game species.
A little Smart car will get me from point A to point B, but my full sized loaded Ford Taurus will get me there quicker and alot more comfortable. Point being small will marginally get the job done but not for me bigger is better and for me that is my .280 Remington or my 300WSM. Since all of my shots are high shoulder shots those two rifles are my choices. That is why they make all of the calibers that they make so all of us will have a favorite choice of what we want to use. If we only had one choice for a cartridge it would be boring.
my 53 year old hunting partner has a 243 rem 700 and only one deer did not drop in its tracks and theat was a butt shot i have whitnessed hin drop several deer with it
I shot my first deer with a .243 when I was 13. That 7 point buck dropped in his tracks with a shot through the heart, and it's dropped many other deer and coyotes since then. That Rem. 700 in 243 remains one of my favorite guns today.
For the Texas whitetail I encounter, I'd say that the .243 is a superb hunting cartridge.
thats what i hunt with a remington 243, droped all my der i killed
It's plenty of rifle to kill a deer. Accuracy is more important then caliber.
Yes the .243 is enough gun for deer sized game, but like CoBowHunter said, "Accuracy is more important then caliber" is so true.
Yes, but if you want to appear more savvy to your hunting buds, get a .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, or 6.5x55 Swedish. Everybody except me has a .243 Win. Boring and not a very good selection of bullet weights suitable for deer or larger game.
No. It's in the same class as a .223. Closer to a varmint gun than a hunting round.
I know, I know. I'll take some flak for this, but someone has to say it.
It's great for deer sized game.
The gun is plentey capable of killing a deer, and I have killed many deer with my dads .243, but given the choice I would choose something a little bigger like a .270 or 25-06.
I know, as so eloquently pointed out already, legions of deer have fallen to the .243/6mm but I'm just not a fan, I prefer more bullet weight, therefore the lightest I prefer is the .257 Roberts.
Heck yeah it's a good deer rifle. If you shoot straight it will kill deer within any reasonable distance.
Yes it is a very good deer rifle. It works very good for hunting in the Sandhills of Western Nebraska. I have killed many deer using this gun. Mostly any gun will kill a deer if you know where to shoot.
My first deer and thin skinned dedicated rifle was a Browning BLR in 243 topped with a Leupold VX 2-8 power scope. I dropped well over 3 dozen, picked my shots carefully and only had 1 that I needed to track more than 50 yards and found him quickly after i figured out he rolled down a hill side. Almost every one dropped in their tracks. I used factory loaded 100 grain Remington Cor lokts soft points and they performed well. No meat spoilage, not much recoil, all around good round and darn near perfect rifle when you need to scabbard your firearm for whitetail out to 200 yards.
A friend of mine shot a deer this year with his .243 hitting it in the shoulder. The bullet did not penetrate the rib cage. The deer kept going on its other 3 legs and was finished off by his hunting partner about a quarter mile away. My .308 would have dropped it in its tracks (I speak from plenty of experience) with the same shot and would have caused no more damage to the meat. I agree with the point that accuracy is most important but knock down power is also a factor - especially in heavily hunted public lands where a deer could be shot by others if it does not go down right away. I have also heard complaints from hunters in heavy brush that the .243 can deflect easily but not having hunted with one myself, I am not sure if it was deflecting or just bad aiming...
The 243. is a great gun especially for younger hunters.The only problem I ever had with it when I was younger was the weight.
I am always amazed that we think that a .243 is a gun for young and inexperienced beginning hunters . Just the opposite it should be a rifle for an experienced hunter that can place his shot at a very exact spot to cleanly kill the deer. The .243 is not a "rifle for young hunters and women" like we hear alot unless they are expert shots. Of course I will go on record as saying I don't think that it is a fine deer rifle at all.
.243 is a nasty little sob on deer. never lost one with it
Sarge, i believe it is good for women and young hunters because they won't be scared of it, allowing them to develop good shooting habits without a flinch. I do not believe it is a good caliber for anyone who is not selective about their shots, but few calibers are. I have watched a couple kids at our camp literally drill deer with the .243 and drop'em right in their footprints, but these kids are good hunters and riflemen. I have also seen the internal results from that speedy little pill and have though maybe it need not be so fast. It's no bonecrusher but in my experience it's very effective on average sized whitetails. Perhaps not a good choice in Maine or Saskatchewan.
I think that the point that I was trying to make was that everyone says the .243 is a fine caliber for kids and women but dosen't imply that it is a good caliber for adult men. If it is a good caliber for kids and women then it is good for seasoned adult men. Still personally I don't perfer it for deer hunting however I'm sure alot of people have had success with the caliber. I know an old man near me that has killed a truck load of deer with a .22 Hornet but I don't consider it a fine deer cartridge either.
I'm with Sarge, in my limited experience, shot placement is very important with the .243
Just this morning I found out that my brother-in-law lost a deer he shot Friday at dark using his grandson's .243 Handi-Rifle. My sis says there was lots of blood but the trail was lost in the dark. No luck on finding it the next day either. I don't know other details such as shot placement and load.
Last year my wife lost what would of been her first deer when she hit it with a Barnes 85 grain TSX bullet from her .243 Handi-Rifle. We were in a pop-up blind sitting on a Management Area food plot when a nice buck walked out at last light about 50 yards away. She took a steady rest, fired, and we both saw the buck go down right where he stood, just over a little rise from us. I told her to reload and quickly exit so that we could finish the job if needed. Much to our surprise, there was no deer, no blood, and no indication of which way he had escaped. I searched around for another hour and never found a blood trail. Because of work and warm weather, I didn't return the next day so we never found it. The coyotes probably got a good meal.
Our best guess is that she held too high and the bullet impacted the area between the top of the lungs and the spine. Being a smaller probably means less shock to transfer when missing the vitals. Before the end of the week we went to the range with a full deer paper target containing highlighted vitals. She practiced until comfortable in hitting the kill zone at 100 yards. A week later she made a perfect double lung shot on a small buck to claim her first 'recovered' deer.
I'm considering sending her receiver to H&R after this hunting season to have a 7mm-08 or .308 barrel fitted.
It depends on the bullet. A varmint bullet will likely explode without causing much damage. A good big game bullet should expand, but retain most of its weight. Good shot placement is a necessity regardless of caliber. The .243 is based on the .308 cartridge and is part of a family of cartridges that includes the .260 Rem. and the 7mm-08, all good deer cartridges. The Barnes TSX bullet, being solid copper should be a great bullet for deer.
I'm not a big fan of them you step up to a .270 or 30-06 and you have so many more bullet choices if you ever want to shoot an elk or something bigger than a deer.
Yes i shoot a .243 it s remington model 700 sps its great for teens(like me) or adults
I just finished my 6th box of various grains and bullet styles in my new 243 Handi rifle. 4 cartridges left, shot them with 2 being 2 inches apart followed by 2 being 6" and 12" below the first 2. Tried different scope with little improvement. After the last 4 shots, I was off to the sporting goods store to return my cute little single shot.
I received store credit, bought an Axis Savage in 243 along with
another box of shells. I came home with a 3x9 scope. I shot it at 25 yards, adjusted it and moved back to 100 yards. Shot 6 times with some adjusting. My last 3 shots I could cover with a quarter. The trigger is really stiff, so I know that I am looking at a rifle that is capable of shooting 3 shots and cover
them with a dime.
A gentleman who sights most of the stores rifles in said to me;
see all of these thousand dollar and up rifles, your new rifle will compete with almost all of them. Smart buy.
You had the same experience with your Handi Rifle that I had with the 2 that I had in .243. Didn't own them long. As far as the Savage Axis competing with the other rifles, notice he said almost and not all. They do shoot good but won't shoot with my Tikka, Sako or my Weatherby. My buddy has one in .308 and it shoots good too. Don't lose the clip, he did and had an awful time getting another one. Your gunsmith may be able to do something with the trigger.
I have heard many similar stories about the handi-rifle
Shucks, with those Axis/Edge rifles being so accurate and all, Big Green and Ed Weatherby better find another line of work. But you can't wash off fugly.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time long ago. She was an expert cook, was fine in bed, but she was so ugly you had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly you have to look at them all of the time and I can look at my Sako and Weatherby and smile.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time. She was a great cook and was great lover but I had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly, I can look at my Sako and my Weatherby and smile.
Sorry for the double post, it looked like the first one didn't post.
I've had good success with our two Handi-Rifles and have no complaints about accuracy. My .45-70 will put three rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards.
Absolutely, I have taken three deer this season with a remington 700 in .243 win with a tasco 4x32 scope. After borrowing the gun I fired a few shots to check zero and went hunting. With no previous experience with high-powered rifles I took these deer at 200-300 yards. One other deer appeared to be hit(mule-kicked and ran like its tail was on fire) but was never recovered. Blame it the stupidity of the shooter not the power of the gun. It was almost dark at aprox. 300 yards with a rifle I had barely used from the sitting position. Deer probably died in a creek, log pile, or across the property lines wich weren't far away. The rest of the deer died on the spot or within a few yards. Oh,and none of my shots were perfect either. One-lungers mostly. Keep your shots under 300 yds., learn to shoot, and you will do fine. However, from my research I consider the 25-06 and 7mm-08 better deer guns for the low-recoil enthusiast.
willisriverbuck,
Did you look for the buck that got away, it sounded like you didn't even look for it. Was there a blood trail or anything ? Were the shots measured or are you guessing at the yardage ? 300 yards is an alwful long ways from a sitting position, with an unfamiliar rifle. About the only thing that I gather from your post is that yes a 25-06 or a 7MM-08 makes a better deer gun.
I did look for the doe that got away, both that evening and the next day. I found some blood, but it rained right after I shot the deer making blood trailing almost impossible. The property line was only about 75 yards away downhill. The deer was running towards the preperty line when I last saw it. I was not able to mesasure the distance because of terrain and lack of a range finder. The distance is a guess, but I have measured similar distances by stepping them off. I only compared it to similar known distances. I was unclear in my last post. Under 300 yards a .243 is a great deer gun, if you know how to shoot it. However, if you can stand the slight increase in recoil the 25-06 and 7mm-08 make for better blood-letters.
The 243 is a good deer round, with the right bullet and proper shot placement they will go down quick every time. If you hand load try the Barnes bullet I shoot a 85 gr TSX and it works well. Keep your shots under 300 yds and it will serve you well.
yes its a good gun all around for big game to preadetors i love them and they put the animal down without to much tracking
Give me my .257 Weatherby, .280 or my 300WSM anytime over a .243. I live by the SOCOM slogon "Bring enough gun".
No doubt the .257 is a great round as well as the .280. I love my .280 and have killed two elk with it. Having said that a deer is nothing compared to an elk. A .300 is way over kill, as I have yet to track an elk that I have shot with my .300. The .243 is a great round for deer. If shot is placed right you will not even track the deer. I have only taken a few deer with my .243 but one was a nice mule deer and the thing folded in its tracks at 400 yards according the the range finder. What I love about the .243 is the trajectory and the bullet selection. I prefer the 95 grain superformance hornady's. The .25-06 is another gun I love but just don't get it out much now that I have my new .243.
The .243 could kill any big game animal in North America. The 7mm-08 is also good for new hunters.
it will do especially with a well constructed bullet around 100 grains. personally i am a fan of .25 or even 6.5 to give you a better selection. the 25-06 has my heart.
I have used the 243in a Mod 100/Winchester for 20+ years in New York State a truck load of Deer a two bares all with the 80Gr Rem Ammo I fond the 100Gr to Damaging on 165# white tails....so spend your Money on a Good Rifle in the Caliber of your Chose. I now use a 7MM-08 it stops Hogs Faster with 140Gr Hornady Ammo.
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
Like many of the folks here, i have heard hunters swear by their .243 and tell me how many deer they have killed. I am not as fond of the round as they are. Although it is quite capable of killing a deer and is just as good for men as it is for women and children, I would choose a .270, 7mm mag. or 30-06.
I still hear stories from other friends talking about the one that got away when their .243's couldn't bring down a big buck. Whitetail deer are thin skinned light boned animals and you don't always need a large caliber to bring them down. But remember that a sacrifice in power puts even more emphasis on making a great shot. I would not take anything but a broadside shot on a deer with .243 whereas a 30-06 for example has the power to blast through the shoulder. Plus the 30-06 or .270 are versatile rounds for most of North America's game species.
A little Smart car will get me from point A to point B, but my full sized loaded Ford Taurus will get me there quicker and alot more comfortable. Point being small will marginally get the job done but not for me bigger is better and for me that is my .280 Remington or my 300WSM. Since all of my shots are high shoulder shots those two rifles are my choices. That is why they make all of the calibers that they make so all of us will have a favorite choice of what we want to use. If we only had one choice for a cartridge it would be boring.
my 53 year old hunting partner has a 243 rem 700 and only one deer did not drop in its tracks and theat was a butt shot i have whitnessed hin drop several deer with it
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I shot my first deer with a .243 when I was 13. That 7 point buck dropped in his tracks with a shot through the heart, and it's dropped many other deer and coyotes since then. That Rem. 700 in 243 remains one of my favorite guns today.
For the Texas whitetail I encounter, I'd say that the .243 is a superb hunting cartridge.
It's plenty of rifle to kill a deer. Accuracy is more important then caliber.
thats what i hunt with a remington 243, droped all my der i killed
Yes the .243 is enough gun for deer sized game, but like CoBowHunter said, "Accuracy is more important then caliber" is so true.
Yes, but if you want to appear more savvy to your hunting buds, get a .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, or 6.5x55 Swedish. Everybody except me has a .243 Win. Boring and not a very good selection of bullet weights suitable for deer or larger game.
I know, as so eloquently pointed out already, legions of deer have fallen to the .243/6mm but I'm just not a fan, I prefer more bullet weight, therefore the lightest I prefer is the .257 Roberts.
Yes it is a very good deer rifle. It works very good for hunting in the Sandhills of Western Nebraska. I have killed many deer using this gun. Mostly any gun will kill a deer if you know where to shoot.
.243 is a nasty little sob on deer. never lost one with it
Sarge, i believe it is good for women and young hunters because they won't be scared of it, allowing them to develop good shooting habits without a flinch. I do not believe it is a good caliber for anyone who is not selective about their shots, but few calibers are. I have watched a couple kids at our camp literally drill deer with the .243 and drop'em right in their footprints, but these kids are good hunters and riflemen. I have also seen the internal results from that speedy little pill and have though maybe it need not be so fast. It's no bonecrusher but in my experience it's very effective on average sized whitetails. Perhaps not a good choice in Maine or Saskatchewan.
It depends on the bullet. A varmint bullet will likely explode without causing much damage. A good big game bullet should expand, but retain most of its weight. Good shot placement is a necessity regardless of caliber. The .243 is based on the .308 cartridge and is part of a family of cartridges that includes the .260 Rem. and the 7mm-08, all good deer cartridges. The Barnes TSX bullet, being solid copper should be a great bullet for deer.
You had the same experience with your Handi Rifle that I had with the 2 that I had in .243. Didn't own them long. As far as the Savage Axis competing with the other rifles, notice he said almost and not all. They do shoot good but won't shoot with my Tikka, Sako or my Weatherby. My buddy has one in .308 and it shoots good too. Don't lose the clip, he did and had an awful time getting another one. Your gunsmith may be able to do something with the trigger.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time long ago. She was an expert cook, was fine in bed, but she was so ugly you had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly you have to look at them all of the time and I can look at my Sako and Weatherby and smile.
yes its a good gun all around for big game to preadetors i love them and they put the animal down without to much tracking
No. It's in the same class as a .223. Closer to a varmint gun than a hunting round.
I know, I know. I'll take some flak for this, but someone has to say it.
It's great for deer sized game.
The gun is plentey capable of killing a deer, and I have killed many deer with my dads .243, but given the choice I would choose something a little bigger like a .270 or 25-06.
Heck yeah it's a good deer rifle. If you shoot straight it will kill deer within any reasonable distance.
My first deer and thin skinned dedicated rifle was a Browning BLR in 243 topped with a Leupold VX 2-8 power scope. I dropped well over 3 dozen, picked my shots carefully and only had 1 that I needed to track more than 50 yards and found him quickly after i figured out he rolled down a hill side. Almost every one dropped in their tracks. I used factory loaded 100 grain Remington Cor lokts soft points and they performed well. No meat spoilage, not much recoil, all around good round and darn near perfect rifle when you need to scabbard your firearm for whitetail out to 200 yards.
A friend of mine shot a deer this year with his .243 hitting it in the shoulder. The bullet did not penetrate the rib cage. The deer kept going on its other 3 legs and was finished off by his hunting partner about a quarter mile away. My .308 would have dropped it in its tracks (I speak from plenty of experience) with the same shot and would have caused no more damage to the meat. I agree with the point that accuracy is most important but knock down power is also a factor - especially in heavily hunted public lands where a deer could be shot by others if it does not go down right away. I have also heard complaints from hunters in heavy brush that the .243 can deflect easily but not having hunted with one myself, I am not sure if it was deflecting or just bad aiming...
The 243. is a great gun especially for younger hunters.The only problem I ever had with it when I was younger was the weight.
I am always amazed that we think that a .243 is a gun for young and inexperienced beginning hunters . Just the opposite it should be a rifle for an experienced hunter that can place his shot at a very exact spot to cleanly kill the deer. The .243 is not a "rifle for young hunters and women" like we hear alot unless they are expert shots. Of course I will go on record as saying I don't think that it is a fine deer rifle at all.
I think that the point that I was trying to make was that everyone says the .243 is a fine caliber for kids and women but dosen't imply that it is a good caliber for adult men. If it is a good caliber for kids and women then it is good for seasoned adult men. Still personally I don't perfer it for deer hunting however I'm sure alot of people have had success with the caliber. I know an old man near me that has killed a truck load of deer with a .22 Hornet but I don't consider it a fine deer cartridge either.
I'm with Sarge, in my limited experience, shot placement is very important with the .243
Just this morning I found out that my brother-in-law lost a deer he shot Friday at dark using his grandson's .243 Handi-Rifle. My sis says there was lots of blood but the trail was lost in the dark. No luck on finding it the next day either. I don't know other details such as shot placement and load.
Last year my wife lost what would of been her first deer when she hit it with a Barnes 85 grain TSX bullet from her .243 Handi-Rifle. We were in a pop-up blind sitting on a Management Area food plot when a nice buck walked out at last light about 50 yards away. She took a steady rest, fired, and we both saw the buck go down right where he stood, just over a little rise from us. I told her to reload and quickly exit so that we could finish the job if needed. Much to our surprise, there was no deer, no blood, and no indication of which way he had escaped. I searched around for another hour and never found a blood trail. Because of work and warm weather, I didn't return the next day so we never found it. The coyotes probably got a good meal.
Our best guess is that she held too high and the bullet impacted the area between the top of the lungs and the spine. Being a smaller probably means less shock to transfer when missing the vitals. Before the end of the week we went to the range with a full deer paper target containing highlighted vitals. She practiced until comfortable in hitting the kill zone at 100 yards. A week later she made a perfect double lung shot on a small buck to claim her first 'recovered' deer.
I'm considering sending her receiver to H&R after this hunting season to have a 7mm-08 or .308 barrel fitted.
I'm not a big fan of them you step up to a .270 or 30-06 and you have so many more bullet choices if you ever want to shoot an elk or something bigger than a deer.
Yes i shoot a .243 it s remington model 700 sps its great for teens(like me) or adults
I just finished my 6th box of various grains and bullet styles in my new 243 Handi rifle. 4 cartridges left, shot them with 2 being 2 inches apart followed by 2 being 6" and 12" below the first 2. Tried different scope with little improvement. After the last 4 shots, I was off to the sporting goods store to return my cute little single shot.
I received store credit, bought an Axis Savage in 243 along with
another box of shells. I came home with a 3x9 scope. I shot it at 25 yards, adjusted it and moved back to 100 yards. Shot 6 times with some adjusting. My last 3 shots I could cover with a quarter. The trigger is really stiff, so I know that I am looking at a rifle that is capable of shooting 3 shots and cover
them with a dime.
A gentleman who sights most of the stores rifles in said to me;
see all of these thousand dollar and up rifles, your new rifle will compete with almost all of them. Smart buy.
I have heard many similar stories about the handi-rifle
Shucks, with those Axis/Edge rifles being so accurate and all, Big Green and Ed Weatherby better find another line of work. But you can't wash off fugly.
I had a girlfriend like the Axis one time. She was a great cook and was great lover but I had to tie a bone around her neck to get the dog to play with her. That was before I got my eyes checked. WAM you are right you can't wash off ugly, I can look at my Sako and my Weatherby and smile.
Sorry for the double post, it looked like the first one didn't post.
I've had good success with our two Handi-Rifles and have no complaints about accuracy. My .45-70 will put three rounds into one ragged hole at 100 yards.
Absolutely, I have taken three deer this season with a remington 700 in .243 win with a tasco 4x32 scope. After borrowing the gun I fired a few shots to check zero and went hunting. With no previous experience with high-powered rifles I took these deer at 200-300 yards. One other deer appeared to be hit(mule-kicked and ran like its tail was on fire) but was never recovered. Blame it the stupidity of the shooter not the power of the gun. It was almost dark at aprox. 300 yards with a rifle I had barely used from the sitting position. Deer probably died in a creek, log pile, or across the property lines wich weren't far away. The rest of the deer died on the spot or within a few yards. Oh,and none of my shots were perfect either. One-lungers mostly. Keep your shots under 300 yds., learn to shoot, and you will do fine. However, from my research I consider the 25-06 and 7mm-08 better deer guns for the low-recoil enthusiast.
willisriverbuck,
Did you look for the buck that got away, it sounded like you didn't even look for it. Was there a blood trail or anything ? Were the shots measured or are you guessing at the yardage ? 300 yards is an alwful long ways from a sitting position, with an unfamiliar rifle. About the only thing that I gather from your post is that yes a 25-06 or a 7MM-08 makes a better deer gun.
I did look for the doe that got away, both that evening and the next day. I found some blood, but it rained right after I shot the deer making blood trailing almost impossible. The property line was only about 75 yards away downhill. The deer was running towards the preperty line when I last saw it. I was not able to mesasure the distance because of terrain and lack of a range finder. The distance is a guess, but I have measured similar distances by stepping them off. I only compared it to similar known distances. I was unclear in my last post. Under 300 yards a .243 is a great deer gun, if you know how to shoot it. However, if you can stand the slight increase in recoil the 25-06 and 7mm-08 make for better blood-letters.
The 243 is a good deer round, with the right bullet and proper shot placement they will go down quick every time. If you hand load try the Barnes bullet I shoot a 85 gr TSX and it works well. Keep your shots under 300 yds and it will serve you well.
Give me my .257 Weatherby, .280 or my 300WSM anytime over a .243. I live by the SOCOM slogon "Bring enough gun".
No doubt the .257 is a great round as well as the .280. I love my .280 and have killed two elk with it. Having said that a deer is nothing compared to an elk. A .300 is way over kill, as I have yet to track an elk that I have shot with my .300. The .243 is a great round for deer. If shot is placed right you will not even track the deer. I have only taken a few deer with my .243 but one was a nice mule deer and the thing folded in its tracks at 400 yards according the the range finder. What I love about the .243 is the trajectory and the bullet selection. I prefer the 95 grain superformance hornady's. The .25-06 is another gun I love but just don't get it out much now that I have my new .243.
The .243 could kill any big game animal in North America. The 7mm-08 is also good for new hunters.
it will do especially with a well constructed bullet around 100 grains. personally i am a fan of .25 or even 6.5 to give you a better selection. the 25-06 has my heart.
I have used the 243in a Mod 100/Winchester for 20+ years in New York State a truck load of Deer a two bares all with the 80Gr Rem Ammo I fond the 100Gr to Damaging on 165# white tails....so spend your Money on a Good Rifle in the Caliber of your Chose. I now use a 7MM-08 it stops Hogs Faster with 140Gr Hornady Ammo.
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
I shot my first buck, a 148 lb 8 point with a .243 and the bullet performance was fine. I agree that it is a good rifle for a younger shooter/hunter because it has more to it than a .22 caliber center fire. also, if someone has hunted with that rifle since they were a kid, then I don't see why they cant use it later on in life
Like many of the folks here, i have heard hunters swear by their .243 and tell me how many deer they have killed. I am not as fond of the round as they are. Although it is quite capable of killing a deer and is just as good for men as it is for women and children, I would choose a .270, 7mm mag. or 30-06.
I still hear stories from other friends talking about the one that got away when their .243's couldn't bring down a big buck. Whitetail deer are thin skinned light boned animals and you don't always need a large caliber to bring them down. But remember that a sacrifice in power puts even more emphasis on making a great shot. I would not take anything but a broadside shot on a deer with .243 whereas a 30-06 for example has the power to blast through the shoulder. Plus the 30-06 or .270 are versatile rounds for most of North America's game species.
A little Smart car will get me from point A to point B, but my full sized loaded Ford Taurus will get me there quicker and alot more comfortable. Point being small will marginally get the job done but not for me bigger is better and for me that is my .280 Remington or my 300WSM. Since all of my shots are high shoulder shots those two rifles are my choices. That is why they make all of the calibers that they make so all of us will have a favorite choice of what we want to use. If we only had one choice for a cartridge it would be boring.
my 53 year old hunting partner has a 243 rem 700 and only one deer did not drop in its tracks and theat was a butt shot i have whitnessed hin drop several deer with it
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