Rifles
I've tried just about every ammo brand that I can think of & that friends have told me to try - the gun just doesn't group like I expect it to.
Today I even tried the clean it after every shot for 10 - shoot 5 more & clean it - grouping after all that at 100 yards (Hornady Superformance 150 gr) is about 2 & 1/2 inches (disappointing).
I've only tried 150 & 165 grain ammo - is it possible that the VTR with the muzzle brake should be shooting lighter grain bullets to improve accuracy.
This is my first Remington model 700 & I'm very disappointed - all the hype about how this rifle drives tacks is killing me.
My Remington 7600 pump (that I've had since I was 15 - 25 years ago) 30-06 with a 2x7 scope shoots groups of less than 1 inch at 100 yards.
Make sure you don't have any copper fouling.
Is your scope mounted securely?
Have you tried a different scope?
I hope you reload, if so play with the bullet seating depth.
Check the muzzle crown, make sure its centered and is smooth.
Are the action screws torqued correctly.
Is there a spot on the stock causing uneven pressure on the barrel?
Might need a bedding job.
Thats about all I can think of, good luck!!
I bought some factory Hornady 154 grain 7mm Weatherby magnum ammo a year or so ago and I could barely keep it on the paper. That rifle shot Weatherby ammo into less than an inch!
Several of my hunting buddies have had the same experience with Hornady factory ammo. All crap for accuracy. Go buy yourself some decent ammunition like Remington 150 grain Core-Lokts and have someone check your scope mounts and rings. If thhat doesn't fix it, there's always the next gun show.
From your post you say you have tried just about every brand of ammo so I suspect the problem is not in the ammo. I would look at the scope mounting system and the scope first. If the scope base and rings are solid I would try another scope. I reload so I would have tried probably 30 or more loads by this time. If the scope is good I would find a new home for the rifle.
Something just isn't right?
Back in AK got a 911 call at 10 pm from one of the guys who frequents the rang having the same problem and was air bound north at 9am in the the morning.
Met him at the range at 6am with all my HP Competition gear shooting coat and all. With every shot, the bullet kept dropping at 5 o'clock by at least 2-3 inches.
What happened is, the rifle muzzle break one of 2 things happened. Either the rifle fail striking the muzzle break and bending it or the barrel threads wasn't aligned right when cut.
I removed the muzzle break and instantly solved the problem. After season, the rifle was sent back to the company and a new barreled action, not a new barrel, a new barreled action was installed along with a case of 165 grain bullets.
I don't remember what manufacturer it was, but they sure back there products!
Got a Tasco?
In my .45-70 Hornady ammo is very accurate.
The VTR is magna ported it dosen't have a muzzlebrake. The only experience is with a .223 and it shot very well. I still suspect the scope or mounting system.
I just came from my buddy's garage and he had a target on the wall that he shot over the weekend with his Remington 700 VTR .308 using 155 grain Berger bullets that was a 2 inch group at 500 yards. I don't think the problem is with your gun.
I wonder if the nut is loose that mounts just behind the kick pad?
there are a multitude of issues it could be, not just the ammo, scope, or scope mounts...are the action screws adjusted to the right torque, does the action need to be bedded....and i dont think lighter bullets are the answer, typically heavier grain bullets shoot better through rifles. something to do with more surface area of the longer bullet gripping the rifling.
hengst pretty much outlined all the issues i can think of as well.
I'll bet on solid rest his crosshairs move when he repositions his eye, up, down, left, right and all around!
Oh man sorry to hear that. I agree with everyone perhaps you have a scop or mounting issue. I have a remington tlr and boy does she shoot. I would start by making sure the barrel is free floating. Check the screws and torque to spec call remington for the values. Make sure the bore isnt copper fouled. Every fifth cleaning use sweets 7.62 IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA! that stuff can get u real sick. Other than that its the scope rings or mount. I absolutly love burris signature zee rings the inserts hold the scope perfectly. Make sure you have a good base too spend a 150 on a good single piece one. Mine is a 20 moa from ggg tactical out of arizona. Im betting its the scope however.
I believe the gun has a 1 in 10 twist so I would say 150 or 165. I have a bone stock stainless 700 with a burris scope and with anything 150 or 165 grain it shoot about 1.5 at 100 or better even with cheap surplus ammo. WIth my handloads Sub MOA. Remington typically have a long bore so if you handload and seat to the lands you can get amazing accuracy but wont be able to use the magazine.....
I had one of those back before I joined the Corps. I had the same issue, and when I checked to see whether the barrel was truly free floated, there are these little rabbit ears under the barrel on the stock that touch the barrel. Shave those off (use a dremel drill) and try Winchester 150 grain PP's. Mine shot quarter groups once I got rid of those rabbit ears touching the barrel with Wal-Mart Winchester PP 150 grain
1-10 twist wouldn't hurt the accuracy of a 150 or a 165. 1-10 are used in High Power competition for 168 through 200 grain. 1-11 are used by Palma Match shooters using 155's in 308's at 1000 yards. Doubt very seriously it's the barrel twist.
Sounds like it might be the scope itself by the size of the group. My 25-06 went instantly from a 3/8's to a 5 inch group at 100 yards by just changing the scope.
1: Make sure the rifle is unloaded and remove the bolt.
2: Bench the scoped rifle and pick out a small target at 100 yards
3: Without moving/disturbing the rifle, look through the scope at the target.
4: Again without disturbing the rifle, move your head up, down, left to right and all around.
Question: Did the crosshairs move as your eye moved? If so, it's the scope!
Redbone
Seating to the lands is a very dangerous thing to do.
I have an 03-A3 and even with 100 grain Plinkers, I can cover the group with a dime at 100 yards.
I have a 700vtr in .308 as I have been breaking it in I have been zeroing it at 25 yard increments and so far it easily overlaps holes on paper. I initially broke the barely in with 23 rounds with a complete cool down and thorough cleaning between each shot. this rifle has been a gem to me and it is also my first rifle ever. i spent hours mounting the scope: because I'm new to scoped weapons and wanted it to be perfect. I want to be the issues not the rifle/optics. I have been using hornady steel match throughout the process and have had absolutely no issues.
went out yesterday and found Hornady superformance sst 150's to be the best in my 700 vtr 308. I grouped with steel match at 50 yards and then set out for 100 yards. With the superformance sst 150's I was hitting just low of center at 100 yards all rounds were within 1 inch I think if I had more time and experience I could really dial them in. I then proceed to aim at a 300 yard bowling pin I'd line up on the center of its head and nailed it with all 4 rounds. I also tried Federal with barnes triple shocks at 150 grain and a few other rounds. The Hornady Superformance sst 150's were amazing.
hengst gave you some excellent things to check. In addition, research reveals that the .308 VTR comes with a 1 in 12" twist, and the optimum bullet weight for 1 in 12" is 168 gr. Also, I have owned several Remington 700's and to date, every one of them needed the barrel floated in order to obtain good groups. You might look into floating the barrel, I would do that before considering a bedding job. Regards
PS... Try Federal Premium with the 168 gr. Match King bullet.
As long as all screws are tight and you have a good scope, the next most likely cause of the problem is the bullet velocity. The vibration characteristics of each rifle are different and you have to find a harmonic velocity/bullet for each rifle. Some of my best rifles shoot 2 1/2 inch groups with the wrong bullets and sometimes those bullets are only 50 fps different than my best. Do that by stepping reloads. It can be expensive to do with factory ammo and you may never find a harmonic factory load. It is best to reload and use an accurate powder like Varget or H335.
If you reload, I suggest starting with Sierra Pro Hunter or Hornady Interlock flat based bullets. The top slotted muzzle brake exerts unbalanced force on the bullet as it passes the slots. This could more severely affect boat tail bullets so you might try flat base bullets first and concentrate your shooting on 100 yard targets.
If you get a an accurate flat based bullet grouping well, then test a great long range boat tail bullet like a 168g Berger or a Sierra Match King. They might not be quite as accurate as the flat base at 100 yards but they might still be better at 500 yards because they might straighten out consistently as they fly.
If that doesn't work, more drastic action may be necessary. The 700 VTR is poorly bedded and the barrel may wander from shot to shot because of the triangular barrel and it's less than ideal heat dissipation. The forearm provides pressure on the barrel to compensate for these.
I suggest glass/pillar bedding the action and free floating the barrel. Sand out the ridge in the forearm so you can slide a dollar bill all the way down the barrel channel. You can do this yourself pretty easily with a $35 bedding kit, a dremmel and some sandpaper. If it doesn't help or it gets worse, you can always add epoxy back to the forend.
The VTR is a rifle whose design revolves around the funky triangular barrel with a slotted "non-brake". If all else fails, put a good varmint or heavy contour Krieger barrel on that nice Rem 700 action and shoot lights out.
Well one of the many things I learned from the military about marksmenship is know your firearm and learn from it. Usaully when rating a grain amout for a round that is the max effective range which means thats the max range it will hit a target just hit not very much grouping. So if it says 165 grains that the max it should fire. So dont be afraid to go with a lower grain and remember not every ammo manufactor uses the same chemical mixture. Say you by a Winchester 308 165 grain and buy remington 308 155 grain you may get the same range but the remington may have better grouping at the same range because of a strong chemical accelerate charge of powder. Basically you shouldnt have to do anything to the rifle just read your manual and play with your ammo it takes time to figure out what works best for you and your rifle and keep a log of the weather conditions you are shooting in that makes a hugh differeince with temp, wettness, dryness and wind a lot of things factor so sit back relax and enjoy firing your rifle. Semper Fi.
Good suggestions have already been offered. I've tried the VTR in .223, but haven't used it in .308. I would check the trigger guard screws, the secure installation of scope mounts and rings, the bedding, and check if the barreled action is binding anywhere in the inletting by looking for uneven wear spots. Poor performance is not typical of this model. Experiment with different bullets and seating depths. This may require patience.
I would check all mentioned and if it will not group after that... go to ebay and buy a take off replacement Barrel for under $100 in 308 Win, 7mm 08, 300 WSM, 270 WSM, etc... Then some cash to the gunsmith for a barrel change and action true. DNZ scope mounts are a step up from the 2 piece sets for some low coin.
Better yet, buy a Tikka and forget about Remington. After owning several 700's, doing the trigger job tuning, HS Precision stocks, torque settings, etc and then Good Glass, Nikon / Burris / Vortex Viper being the low - $400 end and Leupold being a good $1000 high end. Endstate a custom rifle build minus custom barrel for $1500 to $2000 after the build and work. Shoots 1/2 MOA zone. Or, Tikka that shoots MOA with factory ammo and if handloading- 1/2 MOA out of the box for $660. Remington better get with the program with it's cheap stocks and inconsistent triggers. They will be hurting in the next 10 years the way the market is going toward Tikka's T3 stainless. Tikka did it right. I would rather Remington spend the time and did a deal with Bell and Carlson selling it at $700 then the cheapie flex stocks it mounts it 700 actions on. They are failing in the market.
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Make sure you don't have any copper fouling.
Is your scope mounted securely?
Have you tried a different scope?
I hope you reload, if so play with the bullet seating depth.
Check the muzzle crown, make sure its centered and is smooth.
Are the action screws torqued correctly.
Is there a spot on the stock causing uneven pressure on the barrel?
Might need a bedding job.
Thats about all I can think of, good luck!!
I bought some factory Hornady 154 grain 7mm Weatherby magnum ammo a year or so ago and I could barely keep it on the paper. That rifle shot Weatherby ammo into less than an inch!
Several of my hunting buddies have had the same experience with Hornady factory ammo. All crap for accuracy. Go buy yourself some decent ammunition like Remington 150 grain Core-Lokts and have someone check your scope mounts and rings. If thhat doesn't fix it, there's always the next gun show.
I just came from my buddy's garage and he had a target on the wall that he shot over the weekend with his Remington 700 VTR .308 using 155 grain Berger bullets that was a 2 inch group at 500 yards. I don't think the problem is with your gun.
From your post you say you have tried just about every brand of ammo so I suspect the problem is not in the ammo. I would look at the scope mounting system and the scope first. If the scope base and rings are solid I would try another scope. I reload so I would have tried probably 30 or more loads by this time. If the scope is good I would find a new home for the rifle.
Something just isn't right?
Back in AK got a 911 call at 10 pm from one of the guys who frequents the rang having the same problem and was air bound north at 9am in the the morning.
Met him at the range at 6am with all my HP Competition gear shooting coat and all. With every shot, the bullet kept dropping at 5 o'clock by at least 2-3 inches.
What happened is, the rifle muzzle break one of 2 things happened. Either the rifle fail striking the muzzle break and bending it or the barrel threads wasn't aligned right when cut.
I removed the muzzle break and instantly solved the problem. After season, the rifle was sent back to the company and a new barreled action, not a new barrel, a new barreled action was installed along with a case of 165 grain bullets.
I don't remember what manufacturer it was, but they sure back there products!
Got a Tasco?
In my .45-70 Hornady ammo is very accurate.
The VTR is magna ported it dosen't have a muzzlebrake. The only experience is with a .223 and it shot very well. I still suspect the scope or mounting system.
I wonder if the nut is loose that mounts just behind the kick pad?
there are a multitude of issues it could be, not just the ammo, scope, or scope mounts...are the action screws adjusted to the right torque, does the action need to be bedded....and i dont think lighter bullets are the answer, typically heavier grain bullets shoot better through rifles. something to do with more surface area of the longer bullet gripping the rifling.
hengst pretty much outlined all the issues i can think of as well.
I'll bet on solid rest his crosshairs move when he repositions his eye, up, down, left, right and all around!
Oh man sorry to hear that. I agree with everyone perhaps you have a scop or mounting issue. I have a remington tlr and boy does she shoot. I would start by making sure the barrel is free floating. Check the screws and torque to spec call remington for the values. Make sure the bore isnt copper fouled. Every fifth cleaning use sweets 7.62 IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA! that stuff can get u real sick. Other than that its the scope rings or mount. I absolutly love burris signature zee rings the inserts hold the scope perfectly. Make sure you have a good base too spend a 150 on a good single piece one. Mine is a 20 moa from ggg tactical out of arizona. Im betting its the scope however.
1-10 twist wouldn't hurt the accuracy of a 150 or a 165. 1-10 are used in High Power competition for 168 through 200 grain. 1-11 are used by Palma Match shooters using 155's in 308's at 1000 yards. Doubt very seriously it's the barrel twist.
Sounds like it might be the scope itself by the size of the group. My 25-06 went instantly from a 3/8's to a 5 inch group at 100 yards by just changing the scope.
1: Make sure the rifle is unloaded and remove the bolt.
2: Bench the scoped rifle and pick out a small target at 100 yards
3: Without moving/disturbing the rifle, look through the scope at the target.
4: Again without disturbing the rifle, move your head up, down, left to right and all around.
Question: Did the crosshairs move as your eye moved? If so, it's the scope!
As long as all screws are tight and you have a good scope, the next most likely cause of the problem is the bullet velocity. The vibration characteristics of each rifle are different and you have to find a harmonic velocity/bullet for each rifle. Some of my best rifles shoot 2 1/2 inch groups with the wrong bullets and sometimes those bullets are only 50 fps different than my best. Do that by stepping reloads. It can be expensive to do with factory ammo and you may never find a harmonic factory load. It is best to reload and use an accurate powder like Varget or H335.
If you reload, I suggest starting with Sierra Pro Hunter or Hornady Interlock flat based bullets. The top slotted muzzle brake exerts unbalanced force on the bullet as it passes the slots. This could more severely affect boat tail bullets so you might try flat base bullets first and concentrate your shooting on 100 yard targets.
If you get a an accurate flat based bullet grouping well, then test a great long range boat tail bullet like a 168g Berger or a Sierra Match King. They might not be quite as accurate as the flat base at 100 yards but they might still be better at 500 yards because they might straighten out consistently as they fly.
If that doesn't work, more drastic action may be necessary. The 700 VTR is poorly bedded and the barrel may wander from shot to shot because of the triangular barrel and it's less than ideal heat dissipation. The forearm provides pressure on the barrel to compensate for these.
I suggest glass/pillar bedding the action and free floating the barrel. Sand out the ridge in the forearm so you can slide a dollar bill all the way down the barrel channel. You can do this yourself pretty easily with a $35 bedding kit, a dremmel and some sandpaper. If it doesn't help or it gets worse, you can always add epoxy back to the forend.
The VTR is a rifle whose design revolves around the funky triangular barrel with a slotted "non-brake". If all else fails, put a good varmint or heavy contour Krieger barrel on that nice Rem 700 action and shoot lights out.
I believe the gun has a 1 in 10 twist so I would say 150 or 165. I have a bone stock stainless 700 with a burris scope and with anything 150 or 165 grain it shoot about 1.5 at 100 or better even with cheap surplus ammo. WIth my handloads Sub MOA. Remington typically have a long bore so if you handload and seat to the lands you can get amazing accuracy but wont be able to use the magazine.....
I had one of those back before I joined the Corps. I had the same issue, and when I checked to see whether the barrel was truly free floated, there are these little rabbit ears under the barrel on the stock that touch the barrel. Shave those off (use a dremel drill) and try Winchester 150 grain PP's. Mine shot quarter groups once I got rid of those rabbit ears touching the barrel with Wal-Mart Winchester PP 150 grain
Redbone
Seating to the lands is a very dangerous thing to do.
I have an 03-A3 and even with 100 grain Plinkers, I can cover the group with a dime at 100 yards.
I have a 700vtr in .308 as I have been breaking it in I have been zeroing it at 25 yard increments and so far it easily overlaps holes on paper. I initially broke the barely in with 23 rounds with a complete cool down and thorough cleaning between each shot. this rifle has been a gem to me and it is also my first rifle ever. i spent hours mounting the scope: because I'm new to scoped weapons and wanted it to be perfect. I want to be the issues not the rifle/optics. I have been using hornady steel match throughout the process and have had absolutely no issues.
went out yesterday and found Hornady superformance sst 150's to be the best in my 700 vtr 308. I grouped with steel match at 50 yards and then set out for 100 yards. With the superformance sst 150's I was hitting just low of center at 100 yards all rounds were within 1 inch I think if I had more time and experience I could really dial them in. I then proceed to aim at a 300 yard bowling pin I'd line up on the center of its head and nailed it with all 4 rounds. I also tried Federal with barnes triple shocks at 150 grain and a few other rounds. The Hornady Superformance sst 150's were amazing.
hengst gave you some excellent things to check. In addition, research reveals that the .308 VTR comes with a 1 in 12" twist, and the optimum bullet weight for 1 in 12" is 168 gr. Also, I have owned several Remington 700's and to date, every one of them needed the barrel floated in order to obtain good groups. You might look into floating the barrel, I would do that before considering a bedding job. Regards
PS... Try Federal Premium with the 168 gr. Match King bullet.
Well one of the many things I learned from the military about marksmenship is know your firearm and learn from it. Usaully when rating a grain amout for a round that is the max effective range which means thats the max range it will hit a target just hit not very much grouping. So if it says 165 grains that the max it should fire. So dont be afraid to go with a lower grain and remember not every ammo manufactor uses the same chemical mixture. Say you by a Winchester 308 165 grain and buy remington 308 155 grain you may get the same range but the remington may have better grouping at the same range because of a strong chemical accelerate charge of powder. Basically you shouldnt have to do anything to the rifle just read your manual and play with your ammo it takes time to figure out what works best for you and your rifle and keep a log of the weather conditions you are shooting in that makes a hugh differeince with temp, wettness, dryness and wind a lot of things factor so sit back relax and enjoy firing your rifle. Semper Fi.
Good suggestions have already been offered. I've tried the VTR in .223, but haven't used it in .308. I would check the trigger guard screws, the secure installation of scope mounts and rings, the bedding, and check if the barreled action is binding anywhere in the inletting by looking for uneven wear spots. Poor performance is not typical of this model. Experiment with different bullets and seating depths. This may require patience.
I would check all mentioned and if it will not group after that... go to ebay and buy a take off replacement Barrel for under $100 in 308 Win, 7mm 08, 300 WSM, 270 WSM, etc... Then some cash to the gunsmith for a barrel change and action true. DNZ scope mounts are a step up from the 2 piece sets for some low coin.
Better yet, buy a Tikka and forget about Remington. After owning several 700's, doing the trigger job tuning, HS Precision stocks, torque settings, etc and then Good Glass, Nikon / Burris / Vortex Viper being the low - $400 end and Leupold being a good $1000 high end. Endstate a custom rifle build minus custom barrel for $1500 to $2000 after the build and work. Shoots 1/2 MOA zone. Or, Tikka that shoots MOA with factory ammo and if handloading- 1/2 MOA out of the box for $660. Remington better get with the program with it's cheap stocks and inconsistent triggers. They will be hurting in the next 10 years the way the market is going toward Tikka's T3 stainless. Tikka did it right. I would rather Remington spend the time and did a deal with Bell and Carlson selling it at $700 then the cheapie flex stocks it mounts it 700 actions on. They are failing in the market.
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