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Rifles

Why Are The Ammo Shelves Empty? What, Exactly, Are People Afraid Of?

Uploaded on February 22, 2009

All . . .

Yesterday in the early evening I stopped by the Gander Mountain in the town near where I live. I went there because I wanted to buy a box or two of 150-grain loads in .308, and because my buddies had been telling me that the ammo shelves at all the gun stores in town were emptying fast.

I surveyed the ammo shelves and was mightily shocked. In essence, any centerfire ammunition from .223 up through the major .30 calibers (.308, 30-06, .300 Winchester) was either in short supply or in no supply at all. As in None Available.

In a Gander Mountain retail store that usually has at least ten to fifteen 500-round cases of .223/5.56mm ammo on hand at any one time, last night there were perhaps 300 rounds of .223/5.56mm ammo in the entire store. Most of it was in just-opened-but-not-unpacked boxes that had clearly gone from the delivery truck directly to the store's ammo shelves. It was obvious that as soon as a case of 5.56mm hit the shelf, within a few hours someone would snatch it like a starving dog coming upon a fresh bone.

The .24, .25 and .26 caliber areas of the ammo shelves had perhaps one or two boxes--total--on display.

There were three or four boxes of .270 Winchester ammo.

In a store that usually has half a dozen boxes of 7x57 Mauser ammo and at least that much 7mm-08 ammo on display, there were none. Zero.

I don't believe there were any boxes of 7mm Magnum, but there may have been one, perhaps two.

The .308 shelves were completely empty except for one or two old boxes of Winchester slow velocity 180-grain loads. These did not interest me.

I looked around. Vast empty acreage on the ammo shelves.

I went and found two Gander Mountain sales guys in the Gun Department. I asked them if there was any .308 Winchester or 7.62mm NATO ammo anywhere in the store in bullet weights under 180-grains. They escorted me back to the ammo shelves which I already knew were empty and which I had already informed them were empty. One of the sales guys picked up a lone box of .308 Marlin Express ammo, offered it to me like I was a blind dummy, and said, "Here's a box of .308 ammo for you. This will do you just fine."

I paused for a moment to see if the sales guy would catch his own mistake. The sales guy attempted to hand me the box of .308 Marlin Express ammo again. I refused to accept it. I politely (but bluntly) pointed out that I had no desire to experience my rifle blowing up and perhaps killing me with its very first shot of .308 Marlin Express ammo, considering my rifle was chambered in ".308 WINCHESTER or 7.62mm NATO."

The sales guy looked confused. The other sales guy suddenly realized his partner's mistake (of epic, perhaps lethal, proportions), grabbed the box of .308 Marlin Express ammo from his buddy's hand, and claimed, "Well, your rifle wouldn't chamber this stuff anyway."

I nodded my head. I said, "Yeah. Thanks for the ammo lesson, though I'm not the guy who needs it. Now back to the first question I asked you a few minutes ago: is there any .308 Winchester or 7.62mm ammo anywhere in the store?"

The sales guys shuffled their feet and looked around at the empty acres of ammo shelves. "Guess not," one of them finally said.

I asked, "Do you have any idea why the shelves are so empty? What are people afraid of?"

The smarter sales guy--the one who hadn't handed me the box of .308 Marlin Express to shoot in my .308 WINCHESTER rifle--said, "I don't know. But the people are sure afraid of something."

I concur.

President Obama has made no moves to restrict the sales of guns or ammo to law-abiding, sane, reasonable citizens. And the state in which I live, Texas, is a very pro-gun state.

So, dear readers, why are the ammo shelves empty? What, exactly, are people afraid of?

Please discuss and analyze.

T.W. Davidson

Top Rated
All Replies
from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Well T.W. it is simple. People believe, correctly so by the way, that ammunition prices will absolutely skyrocket during this president's administration. Ammunition prices have already increased about 40% in the last year and a half in my region.

Do I believe that they will "outlaw" ammunition? Sure if they had their way. But more realistically I think they have chosen to use a "back door" approach.

They will simply make it so expensive through the implementation of taxes and fees that the average person will have difficulty purchasing more than a few boxes a year. They achieve the result of a partial ban without having to fight a lengthly drawn out battle to win it.

Check the shelves containing reloading equipment also. Dry. This includes many online sellers who have most of what you need on back order.

Get ready for a New York City school safety tax even if you live in Utah. Get ready for increased Federal, state, and the ever popular "special local" tax, etc, etc, etc. All coming to a sporting goods store near you.

Mike

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

It's the fear that Obama will do something. Just because Obama has done nothing yet does not mean that he won't. Hunters are smart enough to catch a wiff of NOT GOOD coming and prepare. I see him raising taxes on ammunition and guns, and also making a very valiant attempt at trying to get our guns registered.
Mike, i don't know if you knew this or not, but the democrats are trying to push a bill that would make it law to have all handguns and semi-automatic weapons registered. What would be next would be all shotguns, and then rifles. When they have it all registered, BAM! here they are ready to take them away now knowing that you have them.
I just feel sorry for anybody that would have to go around collecting the guns from people. 99% would not be happy. Of the 99% i would say that 75% or more would put up a fight.

Nate

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from Bella wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

The whole Obama will take your guns away is a shibboleth, a red herring. The fact is that Obama has said 2 things, 1. he doesn't want to interfere with American sporting traditions 2, he might consider bringing back the Assault weapons ban. However, the American people after 8 years of lies, manipulation and fearmongering are more willing to listen to guys like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity than more reasonable and accurate sources.
Funny here in Massachusetts we have some of the toughest gun laws in the country but hey, there is ammo on the shelves and there has been no run on preban SKS carbines or other "black rifles" either. My local gun store has plenty of inventory. Perhaps this is because New Englanders overwhelmingly voted for Obama (I did) and greeted his election with a sigh of relief. Perhaps in parts of the country where the fearmongering is more prevelant this leads to panicked buying of hardware and rounds. Hey, with the oncoming economic difficulties ammo is likely a good investment, lead ain't gonna get any cheaper soon. Obama will not take your guns away. 1, he has enough on his plate cleaning up the neocons mess, 2 he doesn't want to "shoot himself in the foot" by advocating something so controversial. 3 how would the feds find all the guns there are to be found?
I sense the fact that Americans horrified by the perversions of the torturers, the greed of the deregulators and the military industrial complex and the big oil companies united to throw off the deceitful neocons but the folks who drank the neocon coolaid must be feeling rather insecure these days, now that Obama is in the White House. Americans, when the going gets tough, go shopping. If you are paranoid as hell, buying every box of ammo in stock is like an obsessive compulsive self soothing tactic. A gun in the hand does make a body feel more secure, perhaps this is like Neocon Lorazepam. Oh and I don't doubt Obama will raise taxes...on those who have been avoiding paying their share by stashing money in the Caymans and in Zurich. The income tax was always supposed to dun those best able to afford it but in the last decade the richest 1% of Americans have used their influence to escape nearly all taxation with the connivance of those who would destroy the middle class and create a corporate aristocracy to lord it over everyone else. Willy Sutton was asked why he robbed banks and he said "thats where the money is!"
The working and middle classes have their backs to the wall, The corporations (which somehow wound up having more rights than actual human beings) got everything they wanted during the Neocons regime and impoverished the rest of us. Lets make em give it back! They already exported all the jobs overseas, working people without jobs can't pay taxes so go where the money is and take back those ill gotten gains.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Bella . . .

Thank you for, in my opinion, a brilliant analysis and commentary. I don't agree with every single word you've said, but I do agree with about 98% of it. (For me, that's nearly a miracle.)

I agree with you that President Obama is at present attempting to save the country from, financially speaking, permanantly going down the drain and taking the heart of the country with it. He doesn't have time to screw with Americans' clearly established 2nd Amendment gun rights. He's not going to have time for years to come. And he has said that he has no interest in screwing with peoples' right to own and possess guns. I believe him. I voted for him, too.

To borrow a quote from one of our greatest presidents, FDR, back when this country was amidst the dark days of The Great Depression, I think the "only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."

Like you, I believe the neoconservatives repeatedly and materially:

1. Lied to the American people about their excuse for invading a foreign country and starting a foreign war: the alleged WMDS that don't exist and didn't exist when we rolled into Bagdhad.

2. Not only permitted but advocated the use of torture, secret prisons, and not-so-secret prisons on foreign soil, thus showing the rest of the world that we have the hypocritical audacity to preach and lecture and harp at countries around the world about protecting human rights while egregiouisly violating them ourselves whenever we feel like it, wherever we feel like it, against anyone we wish. Gosh, this sounds an awful lot like late 1930s Germany. Or Japan in China just a year or two later.

3. Sent--or permitted--this country to slide toward bankruptcy while banks and corporations--and their executives--robbed the American people blind;

4. Protected corporations and banks at the sacrifice of individual citizens' rights, freedoms and savings;

5. Ruined America's former hard-earned good will and good standing with most or all all of the civilized world--because no independent country and no civilized person likes a bully, although that is exactly what America was for 8 years under the neoconservatives.

By the way, I wore a uniform for 8 years. I know you wore a uniform. I think we both have a little standing here.

Unlike the neoconservatives who gladly urged the lower class and middle class families of America to send their daughters and sons off to war, the neoconservatives--and their own daughters and sons--don't serve in our armed forces, haven't served, and are almost certainly never going to serve. Just like their can't-get-their-hands-dirty, can't-actually-risk-their-own-tender butts--poppas and mommas. People like the loathsome Carl Rowe, who in my opinion either is, or is perilously close to being, a traitor to this country. Just like some of his former bosses.

Imagine the following: Every pro-war Senator's and Congressman's sons and daughters are involuntarily drafted and, after 13 weeks of crawling around in the mud and the heat and the art of detecting boobie traps, and after engaging in "Combat In The Urban Environment" training for another month or two, are sent directly to the front lines as infantry or other direct combat arms soldiers or Marines. Put them right up front. Where the bleeding and dying is.

Does anyone wish to speculate how long our foreign wars would last under these--if they existed or came to exist--real, actual, sacrifice-from-and-of-the-power-elite conditions?

I think many Americans are very afraid these days, but they don't exactly know what it is they're afraid of. I also believe that many Americans are in a sort of circle-the-wagons-mode right now, and aren't willing to seriously think about and shock themselves into discovering that they fear . . . ghosts that don't exist, rumors that aren't true, terrible laws that haven't been passed and aren't going to be, taxes that don't exist and aren't going to, and 2nd Amendment rights that will last as brightly and strongly as this country does, or beyond.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself. That's what I believe.

Please keep up the good commentary, Bella. Your words are like the effect of a heavy rain storm on a wild fire: they help clear the smoke, cool the air, and dampen--or stop--the spread of the fire.

TWD

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from Bella wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Thank you TWD, I think I agree with your comment 100%.
I would be curious to know if there is ammo on the shelves of other "blue" states as there is here in Mass (except at thrallmart, where they seem to be carrying less and less shootin' stuff anyway). If there is ammo to be had in "blue" states but the shelves are bare in "red" states, that would be a rather telling demographic. Perhaps "red" state paranoia and "sore looser syndrome" might have the effect of causing a run on supplies, while in the "Blue" folks have had their fears ameliorated somewhat.
Oh well, I gave up on expecting human beings to act rationally years ago. Humans tend to make most decisions based on direct emotional response, sometimes tempered by the memory of past emotional reactions. People can and do learn,and even change behaviors, but rarely for any rational reason. People liked GWB because he openly admitted making decisions "from the gut" or based on his personal emotional response. Most people will not admit it but the notion that the "decider" was using the same gut based analysis as they is comforting. Another emotional reaction, right there. Hey I'm no stoic myself, but I do try to look with perspective on things and my own emotional reactions when I look to an uncertain future are terribly mixed. I remind myself though, that the future has always been uncertain, change is always certain, and I have survived the poop hitting the air impeller before. Then I calm down.

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

* 1994 to 2001 - Obama was on the board of the anti-gun Joyce Foundation. This foundation is the largest funding source for radical anti-gun groups in the country.
* 1996 - Obama supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.
* 1999 - Obama proposed a 500 percent increase in the excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. This tax would effectively punish gun owners for buying guns and ammunition.
* 2003 - Obama voted in support of legislation that would have banned privately owned hunting shotguns, target rifles and black powder rifles in Illinois.
* 2004 - Obama voted against legislation intended to protect homeowners from prosecution in cases where they used a firearm to halt a home invasion.

Do you really still believe he has no gun agenda?

Really folks. Mike

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Mike:

Did a single one of the proposed firearms bans or anti-gun legislation you mention in your recent post get passed into law? No.

Did Obama change course on guns during his campaign to run for President? Yes.

Why? Because Obama as a Senator responsible for his state is much different than Obama as the President of our 50 states and U.S. territories, answerable to the American people in totality. Also, Obama would not have been elected had he attempted to significantly reduce or deprive Americans of their gun rights.
He is intensely aware of these vital facts.

Truth: More Americans exist that like their guns than Americans who exist who can't tolerate any guns at all.

Truth: There are many millions of additional Americans who will concede that reasonable, sane citizens do, in fact, have the right to possess firearms even if they themselves personally choose not to do so.

Truth: Most critically, the majority of Americans will not tolorate any one person or any one political entity or group of political entities from screwing too much or too far with their 2nd Amendment gun rights, particularly now that the U.S. Supreme Court has actually finally declared that Americans have the right to possess firearms. Anyone who dares to seriously screw with gun rights on a national basis will be defeated, or at least their proposed legislation will be.

The most critical truth: Abolishing guns and ammunition isn't even on the President's radar screen these days. Saving this country--and keeping America intact as a country--is.

FDR was as correct in 1929 as he would be if he were here today to repeat his words again: The only thing the American people have to fear, is fear itself.

TWD

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from steve182 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

It is highly unlikely Obama will be collecting your guns. He will, however, be Taxxing your guns and ammo to a degree Unseen before and he will lump many sporting arms into the "Assault Weopan" category, thereby outlawing them when he reinstates the ban, modified of course to further that Agenda. I'm with Mike on this one. The dire straits confronting this country right now make it easy to rush Legislation through with riders that threaten our rights. Watch out. And if you're out of ammo, good luck finding it for a reasonable price in the future.

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from steve182 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Not just Obama... Billary, Biden, Pelosi, Fienstein. A worse collection of anti-gunners has never been assembled in Washington. With the majority as they have, you're a fool if you don't believe they're coming after your 2nd Ammendmant rights.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I have no doubt that Billary, Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein, et. al, would all love take every gun away from every American in this country.

But I'd guess that roughly 250 million or more of the roughly 300 million Americans in this country own guns or support the rights of other Americans to own guns.

Last time I checked, our government still answered to the American people. That's why we have a new president (and new administration) who is nothing like the one we had for the last years.

Vote. Engage in democracy. Lobby for the NRA. Give public speeches. Publish letters and writings. Get people to join your cause. Nothing adverse will happen to our gun rights as long as pro-2nd. Amendment Americans keep elected officials sharply aware that without our votes, they lose their jobs.

TWD

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from buckhunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Could it be inventory tax?

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from n99 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Get real.
Ammunition prices went up 40% during Bush's last year, and had been going up steadily in all 7 previous Bush years. The scarcity (which is somewhat true at the shop I frequent in Maryland, in that they were out of .22 CB cartriges) has nothing to do with President Obama. The President has far too much on his plate to take on the gun lobby.

I think the "ammunition shortage" is a ploy by ammunition makers to stir up some panic and raise prices even more. Just like the insurance companies did, with their tarted-up and blatantly false "liability crisis", so that insurance rates could be jacked to to allow Insurance companies compensate for their losses in real estate holdings.

Blaming the lawyers, Democrats and blaming the new administration makes great copy for the uninformed, but doing so is simplistic at best, actually, deceptive and false, and thereby, IMHO, unAmerican.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

N99 . . .

Bravo. I was unaware of the ammo price facts you stated in your first paragraph--I'm primarily a handloader, but I have noticed that the price of copper bullets in particular has gone up considerably in the last year or two--but I concur completely with your assessment that our president is a little too busy right now to take on the gun lobby.

As to whether the "ammunition shortage" is a ploy by ammunition makers to ultimately satisfy their corporate greed, I've wondered about that myself. Since I view corporations in general as evil entities spawned by Satan (not really, but my words accurately reflect my revulsion of them), I therefore view corporations with distrust, suspicion, and am apt to believe that "good conduct" is not part of their corporate charters though "runaway greed" is. I wish you were wrong, but I think you're right.

Your final paragraph states my own opinion better than I could. Again, bravo. People need to conquer their fears by reading anything and everything they can get their hands on promulgated by all sides of a debate, by talking, by questioning, by challenging, by arguing in a civilized way, by educating themselves (a nonstop, neverending process), and, finally, by forcing politicians to follow the will of the people who elected them or get the boot.

TWD

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

"the U.S. Supreme Court has actually finally declared that Americans have the right to possess firearms. Anyone who dares to seriously screw with gun rights on a national basis will be defeated, or at least their proposed legislation will be."

T.W. once you read the entire U.S. Supreme court brief on Heller you will see that the court affirmed the right of an individual to protect himself with the most commonly used means (a hangun) while in the home. However, the decision was narrow in scope and more importantly for gun owners addressed the broader rights of government, specifically local government, to enact regulation or law both restricting certain types of weapons and also preserving the rights of those entities to charge fees, taxes, etc concerning the sale of those items. For example, Senator Obama's proposed 500% increase in taxes on ammunition and firearms.

When evaluating a politician I try very hard to examine their record first and what they say second. Mr. Obama may be focusing all his attention on the economy now, but eventually he will focus on other issues. No presidency is dominated by one issue alone. Sadly, this will include the firearm issue. He need not ever have had any legislation passed.

"Did a single one of the proposed firearms bans or anti-gun legislation you mention in your recent post get passed into law? No."

For me it is enough that he tried to have it passed. That shows his true intention. As gun owners, now more than ever, we need to be watchful.

Mike

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from jay wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Take it for what its worth but the guy at walmart said "its because of the war". Obviously he doesn't have any more of a reason than the rest of us have.

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from Bella wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

The point of ammo prices having risen greatly during the last few years is highly relevant here. I run my town's recycling center and can attest to the sharp rise (and subsequent fall) in scrap metal prices. Copper got up to $4 a pound and thieves were ripping the downspouts off old churches to sell for scrap. Lead got high enough I was getting $9 apiece for dead car batteries. Then came the fall, prices crashed. The last batch of dead batteries I sold I only got $3 each, still better than the buck or 2 I'd get when I started runnin' the show.
My own observation regarding the lack of scarcity here in my own region is more likely associated with the lack of shooters here, rather than market factors. We do have very restrictive gun laws here in Mass. and it does tend to discourage some. I think a bigger factor hindering would be firearms enthusiasts here is the lack of places to shoot! All along the BosWash corridor, (the great eastern megacity) population is far too dense with suburban sprawl. With houses 30 yards apart it is hard to find a place to site a proper range. I don't think this is due to any sort of conspiracy to disarm us, it is just that there is too damn many of us! I personally believe strongly in the ethic of sustainability, so when we bought land we made sure to get enough of it to do what we want. Finding the local Rod and Gun Club closed to new membership and not accessable I made my own range and I'm thinking of starting my own gun club too! (leave me out of your fun will ya, I'll go build my own playground!)
With my own range I have been able to bring new folks into the shootin' sport, build it, they will come!

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

JUST READ HR 45. Obama administration and friends do not have time to enact back door gun ban's? My God who have we elected?

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from Sheepdog wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Please don't forget that there has been an tremendous amount of ammo expended in the middle east theater of operations. My police department has had great difficulty getting ammunition for qualification as havem many.

Again, Obama and his administration is very anti-second amendment, with respect to those here who aren't worried about his agenda, I ain't drinkin' that kool-aid.

As someone already commented on - The Blair Holt Bill introduced by Bobby Rush (D-IL); one example of many to come.

Check out the present bill in New Hampshire Reaffirming State's Rights. A number of other states are following suit: http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/02/new-hampshire-reclaims-...

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from Ibewsparkie wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I don't believe that it is just the Obama factor, HR 45, or etc. There has been a tremendous amount of chatter at work, at the grocery store, at the gun shop, about being prepared for a coming hoard of starving people / revolt, all regarding the crashing economy. Even the states themselves are worried about what the feds are doing. To reitterate Sheepdog, Just google news search for "state sovereignty" and read a few articles. the states are starting to reassert their rights. We were born as a republic, and are becoming a socialist federal democracy. Even the typical public is seeing the writing on the wall, and are getting ready to cover ther butts. The feds have quadrupled the amount of money in circulation in two moneys, simply by running the printing presses. the amount of printed cash between 1980 and 2000 doubled, what happened to the price of cars?

Just a bunch of scared, but wise, rednecks, covering their butts.

If food quadruples in a year to a year and a half, and no jobs are available that pay enough, what's going to happen? Remember the old Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared."

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from matthew wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

my my my.
what can i say.
well first i wonder what you guys weigh? for obama, or maybe it's his board that has you all fooled. maybe i could ask him or them, what they caught you all on?

hopefully it was sometype of finesse rig, maybe a texas or carolina rigged worm? or maybe he caught ya'll on a clouser minnow. either way they got ya to bite.

oh and by the way if you dont understand that you need to go fishing some more, and get some dirt under your nails and fish slime on your hands. and kiss all the fish you release as well does wonders for the soul.

and as far as the obama not trying to backdoor our gun rights they have all ready started the process. follow this link here to read the full article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29338891/. this was pointed out to me by my dad on my day off this week. and even though the article only says handguns it's just a hop skip and a jump till our shotguns, rifles, air rifles, and muzzel loaders get put under this licensing. this right here is just down right wrong.

and another thing take a look at the "economic stimulus package" that was passed let me ask you this how does making about 700 billion dollars out of thin air help?????? it doesn't plain and simple as that. and the fact that the bill was 400 pages long(at least that is all they published here http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills...) there is no way that anyone would of had time to read the whole damn thing in a few days and fully understand it. let a lone the president of our nation.

overall i personally think that this presdency will be a very dangorous one for owning guns and hunting in particular. but anyways back to why the ammo shelves are empty. it might be because alot of us in the hunting community are mainly in blue collar situations where it helps us to kill a couple of deer and 20 mallards and 30 geese a year on our food bill. and with the W2's and tax time appraoching everyone is probably getting their taxes in early and going out to buy as much ammo as they can because as far as i know ammo doesn't tend to go bad if stored correctly. thus if we do get into really hard times in america here there will be at least some form of being able to get meat on the table during the fall, even if we have to walk 20 miles to kill the deer or other game and drag it back another 20 miles.

oh and if anyone wants to talk on why gun licensing is a bad idea i'm pretty sure F&S will give us a forum for that no problem. and i can tell you in this day and age my computer that i sit at this very minute is by far more dangorous than ANY gun i could ever own.

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from rabbittdog wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I wonder if the buying rush on ammo has anythig to do with the rumor that they want to barcode all ammo. any comments??

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from dreamweaver wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

The real reason ammunition is hard to find in some states is an e-mail message that is traveling rapidly around the net. I don't know if it's true or not, but here's the message I got in my inbox. If you follow the link at the bottom to the website it sure looks real. I live in PA and I followed the link at the website to the actual bill before the PA House

> Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
> It has already started....
> Ammunition Accountability Legislation
> Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take
> your guns? Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun
> world have no problem with taking your ammo!
> The bill 20 that is being pushed in 18 states (including
> Illinois and Indiana ) requires all ammunition to be encoded
> by the manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. So
> they will know how much you buy and what calibers.
> Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
> unless the ammunition is coded.
> Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by
> July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.)
> They will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so
> every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or
> more!
> If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take
> your gun!
> This legislation is currently pending in 18 states:
> Alabama , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Hawaii ,
> Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky , Maryland , Mississippi ,
> Missouri , New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode
> Island , South Carolina , Tennessee , and Washington .
> Send to your friends in these states AND fight to dissolve
> this BILL!!
> To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring
> this legislation and the specific legislation for each
> state, go to:
> http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

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from Hogman7 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Just wait, obama and the anti-gunners will tax ammo, guns, scopes, laser sights, and know telling what else. Sarah Brady will champion obama's cause as well.

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from earlybird wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

There is some really good debate on this subject. "Why and what" questions concerning the shortage of ammo will be known to us all by next year, ia all liklihood. I suspect the big legislative push by the Democrats will happen then. My son in law is a deputy sheriff in a large southern city. He said that the requests for gun purchase permits has increased from 2-3 per day, to 200-300 per week! Reports from recent gun shows give the same indication. The gun buying public is anticipating legislation that will limit the ability to purchase firearms, or in the alternative legislate taxes that will make the cost of ammo and firearms soar!

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from Big Mark wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Well for those of you who thought Mr. Obama wasn't going to go after your guns. It is reported in the congressional notes for today. Mr. Obama proposed reintroducing the assault weapon ban to include phases which include semiautomatic shotguns and high capacity handguns. Sales taxes on the ammunition for those weapons to increase several hundred percent.
But by some fluke Mrs. Pelosi claimed the timing isn't right and asked for it to be tabled until a later date.
Watch what they do not what they say when running for office!

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from Alex_The_Bob wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

T.W. Davidson,

Concerning your comment that "President Obama has made no moves to restrict the sales of guns or ammo to law-abiding, sane, reasonable citizens."

You forgot to add the word "yet" after the word "citizens". Please read the link below, which came out February 26th, 2009.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

It is coming. People's concerns for the second amendment are well justified it appears...

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from WestGaHunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I'm never surprised to find a completely polarized "discussion" about the nation's politics.
For all who fear the bar-coding of ammunition, start pulling bullets and use a microscope to look for evidence of that. BTW, dremel one open and look inside the copper jacket, too. Don't you think they'd go that far to escape detection?
If you're not willing to go that far for your own proof save your spew until BATF shows up on your doorstep because of a stray shot you took at a horrible angle that crashed into a neighbors house.
I live in a red state where I hear the paranoic theories and irrational fears about Democrats' challenges to the 2nd Amendment three times a week just standing at the counter at Walmart. Gatherings of men standing around feeding on each other's paralytic fear.
You have a better chance at being shot by Dick Cheney than having a first-term president challenging gun-owning Americans over our right to own firearms and our ability to shoot back. So stop the incessant whining and go stand near Dick out there in the dove field.
Who has called Remington or Olin or Hornaday to start fact-gathering about the perceived ammo shortage? No one. Why am I not surprised. Why not ask the gun writers here to do that. They can take request you know, especially from customers.
Who called Exxon about the $4 price for a gallon of unleaded lst year? Same rules apply.
Of course, my scepticism tells me that a lot of you are Republicans and Libertarians who will say anything to foment fear and distrust in the American public to ensure the failure of President Obama. So I'm certain we'll hear this rant for three years and 11 months more.
I can change the channel; can you?

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

WestGaHunter . . .

I concur with much of your comment. Thank you for contributing.

Mr. Petzal, please directly ask the major ammo and bullet manufacturers in this country why the shelves in so many sporting goods and guns stores are empty, and why even Midway USA is canceling backorders for ammunition. This just happened to a friend of mine who ordered a case of .223 ammo weeks ago; Midway USA nixed his backorder because the company wrote him and said it couldn't be sure when or whether the ammo would ever arrive.

Also, please ask the ammo manufacturers to explain and justify their ever-higher prices.

Then publish a story about it in F&S. (Or permit me to do so, please. I'd be happy to take on this project.)

TWD

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from matthew wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

well evidently westgahunter didnt read alex_the_bob's article there one thing stuck out very clearly to me

"I think closing the gun show loophole, the banning of cop-killer bullets and I also think that making the assault weapons ban permanent, would be something that would be permitted under Heller,"

now last time i checked cops were still human. and last time i checked a 9mm and a .22 can kill a human, if it doesn't kill them it will do a bit of damage. anyone care to debate that just go think of the last animal you killed with one of those bullets how many of the those acctual bullets did you find still in the animals?

point being they will find a way and we need to stand up for our rights because without our loads for our guns. the guns become nothing more than an expensive club.

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from JLeMay wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Funny - I came out to the web in search of answers to this very same question. I just got done modifying a 20 gauge pump shotgun for home defense and realized afterward that there's not a box of 23/4 20 gauge buckshot to be found in my county. I then went to see if I could purchase some online- no dice. Out of stock everywhere.

I read an interview with Barack Obama in this very publication some time ago- I think our guns and ammo are safe for the foreseeable future. I think the stockpiling of ammo is part of what I like to think of as the "wingnut revolution". If Barack Obama had a different name and were white, I have no doubt I could get my hands on the shells I need.

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

WestGAHunter:

If you are at the stage where the BATF shows up at your door. It is too late.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

All:

It occurred to me a moment ago that Uncle Dick (as in former VP Cheney) will always have guns and ammunition--and, I'm absolutely sure, will never ever face an empty ammo shelf at a sporting goods store--yet I think most of here, and regardless of our widely varied political leanings, would likely agree that he shouldn't have guns and ammo in his possession. After all, our former VP accidentally shot his best friend in the face with a shotgun, then permitted (or encouraged) his PR minions to spin a story to the press which strongly (but falsely)implied his best friend was at fault for getting shot.

Why wasn't Mr. Cheney charged with, at a minimum, deadly conduct, which in this situation would have been a felony? Particularly when any of us, in the same situation, certainly would have been? Does anyone believe there isn't strong, real and actual class disparity in this country?

TWD

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from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Cheney was at fault cause he pulled the trigger, his friend was an idiot and can only blame himself for putting himself in that position. And no, Cheney shouldn't be charged with anything. He wouldn't be here in the midwest, guess its different in NE. Why do libdems go over the line every time they try to make a point?

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from WestGaHunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Gentlemen, we're a nation of extremists. We want all and the idiots on the other side want us to have nothing. Each side accuses the other of sparing no bounds to get their way. Diametrically opposed zealots glaring across some foggy abyss at the other.
I'm a gun nut, dammit, not a wingnut ... not a neo anything ... not a radical "fill in the blank" and not a paranoic. And that's why I get wary of all the talk that says our way of life is threatened.
I love to shoot and hunt. I love to feel the heft of my rifle .. my pistol .... my revolver. I don't expect anyone to understand the way I feel ... not even you guys. I accept that my passion is probably unique to me. It's my joy and not anyone's problem.
I don't talk to naive people who want to rid the planet of evil firearms and I also don't talk to those who think Howitzers should be sold over the counters.
I bristle when I see somebody buying every private sale gun at gun shows (I've seen guys who can barely speak English with an arm load of show guns). And I loathe Mike Bloomberg's tar brush that paints any gun dealer as a threat to the safety of New York City.
There are countless contradictions in the world of guns and gun enthusiasts, but they won't be resolved by taking extreme positions. So, maybe they won't be solve at all.

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from Bella wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

Westgahunter, there is a certain good feeling I get too, when I have my hand on one of my firearms for some good reason, For the reason having observed this also in so many others, I am considering if we are catagorizing ourselves correctly. The way so many firearms afficionados interact with their arms seems to corrospond more to a religion than a political issue. We need a "Gun Church" that admits and allows folk to hold more than one faith at a time, Christians, Muslims and Jews could all join in reverence at Gun Church, along with Native American Shamen, Shintoists, Witches and Nothern tradition Heathens, all aiming for the same targets!
No one can doubt the spiritual value in bearing arms and martial arts practice. Marksmen and martial artists both learn self control, breath control and mental focus. The ability to attain the capacity for achieving victory in conflict yet to learn not to terrorize others when one has the power to do so promotes the sense of personal honor; a concept often neglected today.
People gain mastery in both marksmanship and martial arts by submitting to a mentor who teaches them that which one cannot aquire from books. This promotes respect between young and old.
Hunting also is a spiritual pursuit, or it should be considered so, for when it is considered so positive ethics are more likely to be instilled in young hunters. Gun Church!
We'd likely have to work out the theology, I'd like to see the mystery of steel worked into it somehow, you know how steel starts out as iron rich dirt and if you put it through the fire and beat the hell out of it then do it again, you eventually get fine hard flexible steel that you can make a blade or a gun barrel from. The steel is forged, milled of the superfulous, tempered & polished then you have something fine, though there is a lot of ways to totally bodge the process on the way. People are like steel. Some never quite make it past that dried blood colored mud, others are cast iron (they been smelted, but they are brittle). Then there are those whose steel is mild and untempered, they will bend and not take and edge. The ideal is to be like the finest work, true bored, tempered steel, precise and dependable. I believe these things, Gun Church!
I don't want no bossy prophet types involved here, There are enough new religions run by megalomaniacs, we can all be our own clergy and minister with powder and ball! Gun Church! Hey!

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from garybusam wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

The reason for the ammo shortage is the ammo accontability act that is in congress now. We as sportsmen need to contact our representatives and congresspersons and tell them to vote no on this bill

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

RE: Federal Premium - Ask the Expert Form
Tuesday, March 3, 2009 6:07 AM

Shortage is due to ammunition demand and military/government orders. We
expect primer shortage to continue through 2009.

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from summit229 wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

Not picking at you Clay, but at Federals answer, Of Course the shortage is due to DEMAND. That says absolutely nothing. There would be no shortage if there wasn't demand, and without demand there would be no shortage. Sounds to me like they're talking like politicians.

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from TmH wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

from Bella wrote "The whole Obama will take your guns away is a shibboleth - The fact is that Obama has said 2 things, 1. he doesn't want to interfere with American sporting traditions 2, he might consider bringing back the Assault weapons ban. However, the American people after 8 years of lies, manipulation and fearmongering are more willing to listen to guys"

Bella unfortunately you're comments above and teh residual I didn't copy demonstrate that you are either blind or stupid. I understand that you've bought into the media's villification of PResident Bush advocating a double standard of verbal abbuse and lies that you and the media will scream about when applied to your messiah - B Obama. But, the real issue is how easy you cite lies of the past 8 years and ignore all the whoppers Obama and his administration have already put out there. Let's talk about just a couple. Obama cited that he wouldn't support earmarks - wow thats a doosy - 9,000 in the Omnibus and uncounted numbers in the Spendulus Bill. He stated early in his campaign that upon taking office he would pull all troops out of Iraq (stupid but he said it). Now he's says he's leaving 50K in there - we'll see I'll bet it end up being more. He said he wasn't going to raise taxes on us middle classers. Right he just calls it something else and thinks we're stupid. Carbon, HealthCare, $3.6T he is going to raise everyone's taxes! Finally, yes he and some lame sportsman group the Dems bought said he was for sportsmen. What a crock! He has hunted or fished a day in his life. While in the Illinois Senate he advocate a total - get it total ban of firearms ownership. Even in the deceptive statement that he touts sensible gun ownership laws - by whose standards (probably your Brady Campaign rules, BTW are you a memeber of that group?). Finally with the AG Holder acting in his place the lib Dems have added exponentially to what guns would be banned in the new Assault Weapons Ban. To name just a few the Remington 1100 semi auto shotgun, Springfield Armory M1, and there is a proposal to even include pump action shotguns now. So, don't pretend the lib Dems don't want to ulitmately ban gun ownership altogether, they're just taking a strategy of incrementally attacking and chipping away at our 2nd Amendment rights. Spew it somewhere else - Please!

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from Bella wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

You know TMH the kind of insults a body chooses to denigrate another are often more relevant to the insecurities of the person doing the insulting than that individuals target.
Obama ain't my messiah, I don't want no such thing. My internal condition is more accurately described as thoughtful suspicion of damn near everybody masked with a cheery smile and hokey aphorisms for any situation. I'm a pollyanna pessimist, and frankly the damage done by George Bush and company is in general so breathtaking I would have voted for damn near anybody to repudiate those self serving liars. As far as the Obama presidency goes I am in wait and see mode, he is a politician, I expect a bit of the usual political duplicity, but I want him to succeed, because if he fails it will be bad. It is likely to be bad anyway, but he got the job and his success is Americas success. I am also more comfortable having a guy in charge who has worked for positive social change on the grassroots level, rather than a corporate patsy. The mismanagement, secrecy and outright graft of the last administration amount to levels of perfidiousness that are tough to match in any administration. Relaxation of environmental standards, givaways of mineral rights on public lands, no bid contracts and other financial excesses are what put us in this economic downturn, that is unless you are a follower of that false messiah Rush Limbaugh.
If you believe that guy you'll believe anything. As a Previous poster noted there are people who want Obama to fail (like Limbaugh) and they will say anything and allege anything (with twisted statistics) to malign and spoil his name and efforts. If you want the president to fail you are no patriot. Rush is a self absorbed hypocrite attention seeker, or have you noticed the contradictions between what he says and what he does? He don't walk his talk. Of course gullible people never notice such contrasts between behavior and ideals, such persons only hear what they want to hear and therefore are perfect targets for spew mongers like Limbaugh.
The entire constitution is important to me, or did the parts of the constitution that the Bushies ignored matter to you? When Obama violates his oath, then impeach him (as should have happened with Bush and Cheney) untill then he is POTUS and if he fails, we fail. So goes America. So are you a patriot? I am. Let us all succeed together. And hope to god you never need to use all those guns you got stashed, because if it comes to that the future could be dark indeed. I already seen hard times, I don't prefer to go there again.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Bravo, Bella! Like you, it is the entire Constitution of the United States--and our country itself--that I am concerned with, not just the 2nd Amendment.

I have no desire to see guns taken away from law-abiding, sane, reasonable persons. I would vote against and lobby against the specific actions of any politician who tries to do this even as I may approve of other goals or objectives that very same politician is trying to achieve.

But I am equally concerned about free speech, due process, the right to be free of unreasonable detentions and unreasonable searches and seizures, and much more. I am concerned about a government that answers to the American people, rather than engages in an 8-year campaign to deceive it.

I have no idea whether our new President will succeed in getting our country back on its feet again, but I hope he does, not to pat him on the back, but to see the average American citizen not be afraid anymore, and to see real, actual, positive changes in the way things currently are for most Americans across the country.

I hope our economy is rebuilt, that jobs are restored and new jobs are created, that the average citizen becomes prosperous or at least has the potential to become prosperous with hard work and a little luck, and that corporations and their executives become extremely concerned---even obsessed--about doing the right thing rather than getting away with the wrong thing(s) for so many years while the past administration sat by and did nothing. I also hope--with all my heart--that our foreign wars end as soon as possible and that our people in uniform--who have fought, bled and died (and for what? to what end?) for so many years finally come home.

To want our president to fail, to want this administration to fail, is to want the people of this country to suffer even more than they are at the present time, and for years to come, with no relief in sight. What good is that for anyone in the country? What good is that for the country itself? I agree with you, Bella, that anyone who advocates for that kind of horrible, negative, dark, dispairing "future" in our country is no patriot and no friend to our America, and should never be confused as such.

Mind you, I don't have a problem with people disliking our president. I don't have a problem with people wishing he wasn't the president. I don't have a problem with people wishing someone else was the president and taking action to have a different president through a legal, fair, democratic, electoral process. I don't have a problem with people marching down the street engaging in peaceful civil protests and lobbying and harassing their local politicians to follow the will of their constituents. But for anyone to wish a brand new president and his administration to utterly fail at a time when this country is in more trouble than it has been since 1929 smacks of greed, ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, meanness, cruelty, hypocracy, and perhaps even of racism, too. Rush, your false emperor's clothes--you know, your white robe, hood, and pointy witch's hat--are leaking from the shadows into the light of day.

TWD

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from Bella wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

ThenTWD, we are in accord. I hope we all get to keep our arms and I hope that we all get through whatever looms ahead.

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from hunt_fish_sleep wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

TWD, If you're shopping at Gander for ammo, you're paying far too much. Head on down to your local Walmart. They do have less selection, but the price is unbeatable. Our Walmart was out of ammo for the longest time, only recently have they gotten more ammo then they know what to do with.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Hunt_fish_sleep . . .

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it.

TWD

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from kenhillwa wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I bcan't believe people are blaming the shortage of ammo on the war. I go into the major stores and the shelves are empty of 38, 357 and 9mm rounds. Are these being used in high volumes in Iraq? I doubt it. I hear the manufacturers are working 24/6 to keep up with the demand rigt now. I think it is because people are afraid of the future, right or wrong, and buying in bulk. I'm sure the demand wil go down, but in the meantime, people want to know they can protect themselves without the government knowing exactly what they have.

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

T.W. Davidson
"Did a single one of the proposed firearms bans or anti-gun legislation you mention in your recent post get passed into law? No."
It doesn't matter whether or not it got passed, what matters is that he introced and support these legislations, and we don't need that, especially not now with a democratic majority.

Nate

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Nate . . .

I understand your point, however what Mr. Obama did as Senator Obama is not necessarily the same as what Mr. Obama is doing, or has done, as president since he assumed the post about 47 days ago. Also, I read on the news this morning that Speaker of the House Pelosi (a Democrat) essentially vanquished any proposed Assault Rifle Ban with her news interview in which she stated that the more sensible thing to be done across the country (in lieu of an Assault Rifle Ban) would be for the states (and presumably the Feds, too) to enforce existing gun laws. What I find particularly interesting is that Pelosi's comment happens to almost exactly echo a major argument and talking point . . . of the NRA. Could Pelosi's real motive be to slow the sales of firearms and ammo across the country by saying soothing words that match NRA talking points? Sure. In fact, probably yes. But maybe it is also because Pelosi and others in Congress realize that the majority of their constituents across the country are in no mood at this time to tolerate politicians' infringements upon the peoples' 2nd Amendment rights, and are acting accordingly.

TWD

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Nate . . .

I understand your point, however what Mr. Obama did as Senator Obama is not necessarily the same as what Mr. Obama is doing, or has done, as president since he assumed the post about 47 days ago. Also, I read on the news this morning that Speaker of the House Pelosi (a Democrat) essentially vanquished any proposed Assault Rifle Ban with her news interview in which she stated that the more sensible thing to be done across the country (in lieu of an Assault Rifle Ban) would be for the states (and presumably the Feds, too) to enforce existing gun laws. What I find particularly interesting is that Pelosi's comment happens to almost exactly echo a major argument and talking point . . . of the NRA. Could Pelosi's real motive be to slow the sales of firearms and ammo across the country by saying soothing words that match NRA talking points? Sure. In fact, probably yes. But maybe it is also because Pelosi and others in Congress realize that the majority of their constituents across the country are in no mood at this time to tolerate politicians' infringements upon the Peoples' 2nd Amendment rights, and are acting accordingly.

TWD

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from AlaskanPride wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I had a friend tell me other day "Obama will make a box of ammo $100-150" My reaction...are you @%#$ing kidding me?

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from New Age Bubba wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I beg to differ with the Obama/Pelosi rants, two things for you to consider: the war, and the economy!

Don't any of you remember during the 60's when houses were built with aluminum wiring because copper was so expensive? I thought you had to over 50 to subscribe to F&S. And haven't you seen the current reports of houses being stripped for copper? Also, I live in Texas and there is no shortage of ammo here at my locally owned store, but prices are higher (see preceeding two points!).

Apparently the economic debacle (is this really Obamas's fault?) is causing an inventory control panic among all types of business from what I can tell from the headlines. Rumor is that a big box outdoors chain doing business in Texas on I-35 is about to go under this year (no, not Cabellas).

Have you considered re-loading?

Bubba

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

New Age Bubba,
would happen to be the same bubba that always had great commentary and opinion on the old site?

Nate

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from New Age Bubba wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

By the way, this is a recent article from the Financial Times on copper prices:

Copper up 6% amid hopes of China demand
By Chris Flood

Published: March 5 2009 02:00 | Last updated: March 5 2009 02:00

Copper led a rally for the base metals sector yesterday amid expectations that China would announce new spending plans for infrastructure and manufacturing today on top of the stimulus plans which were unveiled in November.

Copper jumped 6 per cent to $3,750 a tonne yesterday, up 22.1 per cent since the start of the year. Copper stocks at London Metal Exchange warehouses fell 4,850 tonnes yesterday and have dropped 22,000 tonnes over the past week. Stock declines have forced some of the hedge funds that were betting on further price weakness to close their short positions.

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from shedantlers wrote 5 years 4 weeks ago

In order for things to change, we should encourage more kids and more women to shot and hunt.

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from huntcamp wrote 5 years 4 weeks ago

First of all do not believe anything Obama says about the issue. He will tell both sides what they want to hear. Not just him though all polititions. Look at his past and his past is not for us. It is up to us to not let them take what is ours. Obama is every sportsmen or women's worst enemy. This stimilus package is not a good idea. How is making free contrceptives going to help stimulate the economy.

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from jmoss wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

Glad to see most of the mania turned out to be a red herring. No doubt some of it will come back in the last half of 2011 and early 2012, but I was just getting into guns and to see the ammo and gun prices skyrocket in such a way was pretty disheartening.

Politics aside, demand was high and supply stayed the same. Since then, supply has ramped up and demand has leveled off. The lesson here is how psychology can affect demand.

I still want a nice AR, and I don't want to pay $1200 for it.

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from IowaGuy wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

The scarcity and price is related is all self-driven by the people buying ammo. They are scared someone will take their guns or tax their ammo. The price and scarcity has been going up since 9/11. People like to use Obama as an excuse.

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from rabbitpolice88 wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

I wouldn't call Obama an "excuse" he would take our guns and tax ammo in a heartbeat of he thought he could get away with it. I think people have a legit reason to be concerned.

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from jmoss wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

The irony is that despite the fact that no tax has come, prices have increased by a factor considerably higher than any tax we would have accepted.

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from Ben Reese wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Also, and it is in the news and on this message board...people are afraid of the United Nations Arms Agreement that the main pusher was Clinton, and Pelosi pushing this while all America's eyes were on the oil spill crises a few months ago.

My understanding is that people are afraid that if this is passed the UN will be dictating what we here in America can do with our guns..keep them or not. This may or may not really be a case, but it has Americans afraid that they will have no personal pertection if it is true. I mean talk about coming door to door demanding your guns, etc. True or not it has gun owners on the move.

I just yesterday mailed a 2 page letter to my congressman concerning this UN treaty. I hope others will follow suit on writing their congressman about our rights under the 2nd Amendmant.

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from Jeff Shear wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

Guys, we've been fighting 19 (or so) man-years of war now, and doctrine says that we lay down lots of fire rather than lay down lives. For that reason, the demand for ammunition to fight this wars has created an enormous demand for brass, copper, gunpowder and lead. (And whatever they use to make primers.) It's a simple matter of supply and demand. Demand exceeds supply, and the price goes up. Maybe with the war in Iraq winding down (although we feed tons of ammo to PSCs and Iraqis) we'll see more supply and lower prices. Also, the troops will be cut back under the new budget plan-- 100,000 ground troops -- may free up more ammo. After all, what are bullets if not a commodity, kind of like pork bellies with a blast. So, I'm no economist, but I think ammo went up because war ate up supply, and 40 million gun owners panicked. Now, who set off the panic? That's the real question, not why has ammo disappeared from the shelves. Bottom line, when we're out of Afghanistan prices will come down and folks will quit rumor mongering at gun shows. Wow, I wish everyone would relax. And, hey, loading-your-own is fun!

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from steve182 wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

A predicted collapse of our monetary system also contributed to ammo shortages. As did the emergence of the Tea Party.

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

Steve, respectively I disagree. The Tea Party emergence has nothing to do with it.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

Supply and demand tilted on it's end by hoarding for an imaginary crisis. I have not seen an empty ammo shelf in nearly 2 years. Oh, woo-hoo --- it is now 2012. Dated post reared from the grave.

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from Mike Stevenson wrote 1 year 6 weeks ago

America is in a panic! because our President wants to ban guns. He wants to take the freedom we have to own and possess firearms and re-write the Constitution to do so. I have read some of the other posts and people cannot or will not believe that Obama would do this...Well if you are not a Democrat you are not on board with the "Plan" for our country! Even some say the shortage is because the military gets priority over consumer. Well either we are fighting somewhere that Americans don't know about or the government has plans to stop production and distribution of ammo then your firearms are paperweights. Some are saying the prices of metals are too high and some are hard to get...REALLY!!!! When we went to war with Japan, we made ammo and even then we had ammo!!!! Democrats challenging the 2nd Amendment rights are for real if you want to believe or not! I think the ammo makers are afraid that the government is going to put them out of business and they will just because Obama has handlers that want to ban all guns not just a few, get rid of them all. Wake up!!!!! This is happening all over America and what happens if we run into a scenario like the movie "Red Dawn" and we get invaded by another country??? Nobody has ammo to fight??? just give the country away without a fight? Just wait ammo will go up drastically! because of one thing....OBAMA!

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from Cbass wrote 1 year 5 weeks ago

Deadlines!

Ammunition suppliers are either under-ordering, or their suppliers are underproducing. Both stand to reap huge profits. Demand can be met. Pay the overtime. Your customers will afford it.

The construction business has understood this for decades. That's why I'm working overtime on a bridge 450 miles from my home, missing my wife and children, .243, .30-06, and brand new 7mm STW that is yet unfired.

All the best everyone!

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from Paul Farris wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I conducted some local research to find out why our Bass Pro, Wal-Mart, Dicks, didn't have ammo...the answers were aggrivating to say the least. What's happening is we're all willing to pay too much for AMMO. When I asked folks at the local retail shops what happens when ammo arrives, they said "most of the local Gun Shop owners and their employees are waiting in line when we get it"...yes, you heard right, your friendly local Gun Shop Owners. When I asked one of these owners, he said "damn right, I just spent 50,000 thousand dollars on retail ammo and am reselling it online and at the store".... If it's not on the shelves at Wal-Mart, they have to buy from me or buy it online...

So, as long as you're willing to pay 30.00 a box for 22lr, these folks are motivated to clean off the retail shelfs so they can resell it to you. I'm not saying this is the "entire" reason for ALL the empty shelves, BUT IT IS A HUGE PART OF IT. If a Gun Shop can make 300% on an item in demand, you can bet your last 22lr they will do what they can to keep it in demand.... And at 300% markup they can afford it...

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from Sarge01 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

If Obama doesn't have a anti-gun agenda, why when the country's economic shape is in a terrible condition, unemployment is terrible, people on foodstamps is staggering and people say that gun control is on the bottom of their list as far as priorities go, is Obama running around all over the country on his "Gun Control Tour" using kids and police for backdrops to try to get knee jerk reactions for his gun control agenda. There are 50% of the Sandy Hook parents that don't want gun control but he didn't give them a ride to Washington on Air Force One, wonder why ?

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from Knife Freak wrote 45 weeks 6 days ago

Paul
Its not 30 bucks a box for .22 lr its 100 bucks and up for a brick of 500 rds.

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

* 1994 to 2001 - Obama was on the board of the anti-gun Joyce Foundation. This foundation is the largest funding source for radical anti-gun groups in the country.
* 1996 - Obama supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.
* 1999 - Obama proposed a 500 percent increase in the excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. This tax would effectively punish gun owners for buying guns and ammunition.
* 2003 - Obama voted in support of legislation that would have banned privately owned hunting shotguns, target rifles and black powder rifles in Illinois.
* 2004 - Obama voted against legislation intended to protect homeowners from prosecution in cases where they used a firearm to halt a home invasion.

Do you really still believe he has no gun agenda?

Really folks. Mike

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

"the U.S. Supreme Court has actually finally declared that Americans have the right to possess firearms. Anyone who dares to seriously screw with gun rights on a national basis will be defeated, or at least their proposed legislation will be."

T.W. once you read the entire U.S. Supreme court brief on Heller you will see that the court affirmed the right of an individual to protect himself with the most commonly used means (a hangun) while in the home. However, the decision was narrow in scope and more importantly for gun owners addressed the broader rights of government, specifically local government, to enact regulation or law both restricting certain types of weapons and also preserving the rights of those entities to charge fees, taxes, etc concerning the sale of those items. For example, Senator Obama's proposed 500% increase in taxes on ammunition and firearms.

When evaluating a politician I try very hard to examine their record first and what they say second. Mr. Obama may be focusing all his attention on the economy now, but eventually he will focus on other issues. No presidency is dominated by one issue alone. Sadly, this will include the firearm issue. He need not ever have had any legislation passed.

"Did a single one of the proposed firearms bans or anti-gun legislation you mention in your recent post get passed into law? No."

For me it is enough that he tried to have it passed. That shows his true intention. As gun owners, now more than ever, we need to be watchful.

Mike

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from jmoss wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

The irony is that despite the fact that no tax has come, prices have increased by a factor considerably higher than any tax we would have accepted.

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from steve182 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

It is highly unlikely Obama will be collecting your guns. He will, however, be Taxxing your guns and ammo to a degree Unseen before and he will lump many sporting arms into the "Assault Weopan" category, thereby outlawing them when he reinstates the ban, modified of course to further that Agenda. I'm with Mike on this one. The dire straits confronting this country right now make it easy to rush Legislation through with riders that threaten our rights. Watch out. And if you're out of ammo, good luck finding it for a reasonable price in the future.

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from steve182 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Not just Obama... Billary, Biden, Pelosi, Fienstein. A worse collection of anti-gunners has never been assembled in Washington. With the majority as they have, you're a fool if you don't believe they're coming after your 2nd Ammendmant rights.

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from WestGaHunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Gentlemen, we're a nation of extremists. We want all and the idiots on the other side want us to have nothing. Each side accuses the other of sparing no bounds to get their way. Diametrically opposed zealots glaring across some foggy abyss at the other.
I'm a gun nut, dammit, not a wingnut ... not a neo anything ... not a radical "fill in the blank" and not a paranoic. And that's why I get wary of all the talk that says our way of life is threatened.
I love to shoot and hunt. I love to feel the heft of my rifle .. my pistol .... my revolver. I don't expect anyone to understand the way I feel ... not even you guys. I accept that my passion is probably unique to me. It's my joy and not anyone's problem.
I don't talk to naive people who want to rid the planet of evil firearms and I also don't talk to those who think Howitzers should be sold over the counters.
I bristle when I see somebody buying every private sale gun at gun shows (I've seen guys who can barely speak English with an arm load of show guns). And I loathe Mike Bloomberg's tar brush that paints any gun dealer as a threat to the safety of New York City.
There are countless contradictions in the world of guns and gun enthusiasts, but they won't be resolved by taking extreme positions. So, maybe they won't be solve at all.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Bravo, Bella! Like you, it is the entire Constitution of the United States--and our country itself--that I am concerned with, not just the 2nd Amendment.

I have no desire to see guns taken away from law-abiding, sane, reasonable persons. I would vote against and lobby against the specific actions of any politician who tries to do this even as I may approve of other goals or objectives that very same politician is trying to achieve.

But I am equally concerned about free speech, due process, the right to be free of unreasonable detentions and unreasonable searches and seizures, and much more. I am concerned about a government that answers to the American people, rather than engages in an 8-year campaign to deceive it.

I have no idea whether our new President will succeed in getting our country back on its feet again, but I hope he does, not to pat him on the back, but to see the average American citizen not be afraid anymore, and to see real, actual, positive changes in the way things currently are for most Americans across the country.

I hope our economy is rebuilt, that jobs are restored and new jobs are created, that the average citizen becomes prosperous or at least has the potential to become prosperous with hard work and a little luck, and that corporations and their executives become extremely concerned---even obsessed--about doing the right thing rather than getting away with the wrong thing(s) for so many years while the past administration sat by and did nothing. I also hope--with all my heart--that our foreign wars end as soon as possible and that our people in uniform--who have fought, bled and died (and for what? to what end?) for so many years finally come home.

To want our president to fail, to want this administration to fail, is to want the people of this country to suffer even more than they are at the present time, and for years to come, with no relief in sight. What good is that for anyone in the country? What good is that for the country itself? I agree with you, Bella, that anyone who advocates for that kind of horrible, negative, dark, dispairing "future" in our country is no patriot and no friend to our America, and should never be confused as such.

Mind you, I don't have a problem with people disliking our president. I don't have a problem with people wishing he wasn't the president. I don't have a problem with people wishing someone else was the president and taking action to have a different president through a legal, fair, democratic, electoral process. I don't have a problem with people marching down the street engaging in peaceful civil protests and lobbying and harassing their local politicians to follow the will of their constituents. But for anyone to wish a brand new president and his administration to utterly fail at a time when this country is in more trouble than it has been since 1929 smacks of greed, ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, meanness, cruelty, hypocracy, and perhaps even of racism, too. Rush, your false emperor's clothes--you know, your white robe, hood, and pointy witch's hat--are leaking from the shadows into the light of day.

TWD

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from n99 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Get real.
Ammunition prices went up 40% during Bush's last year, and had been going up steadily in all 7 previous Bush years. The scarcity (which is somewhat true at the shop I frequent in Maryland, in that they were out of .22 CB cartriges) has nothing to do with President Obama. The President has far too much on his plate to take on the gun lobby.

I think the "ammunition shortage" is a ploy by ammunition makers to stir up some panic and raise prices even more. Just like the insurance companies did, with their tarted-up and blatantly false "liability crisis", so that insurance rates could be jacked to to allow Insurance companies compensate for their losses in real estate holdings.

Blaming the lawyers, Democrats and blaming the new administration makes great copy for the uninformed, but doing so is simplistic at best, actually, deceptive and false, and thereby, IMHO, unAmerican.

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

JUST READ HR 45. Obama administration and friends do not have time to enact back door gun ban's? My God who have we elected?

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from matthew wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

my my my.
what can i say.
well first i wonder what you guys weigh? for obama, or maybe it's his board that has you all fooled. maybe i could ask him or them, what they caught you all on?

hopefully it was sometype of finesse rig, maybe a texas or carolina rigged worm? or maybe he caught ya'll on a clouser minnow. either way they got ya to bite.

oh and by the way if you dont understand that you need to go fishing some more, and get some dirt under your nails and fish slime on your hands. and kiss all the fish you release as well does wonders for the soul.

and as far as the obama not trying to backdoor our gun rights they have all ready started the process. follow this link here to read the full article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29338891/. this was pointed out to me by my dad on my day off this week. and even though the article only says handguns it's just a hop skip and a jump till our shotguns, rifles, air rifles, and muzzel loaders get put under this licensing. this right here is just down right wrong.

and another thing take a look at the "economic stimulus package" that was passed let me ask you this how does making about 700 billion dollars out of thin air help?????? it doesn't plain and simple as that. and the fact that the bill was 400 pages long(at least that is all they published here http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills...) there is no way that anyone would of had time to read the whole damn thing in a few days and fully understand it. let a lone the president of our nation.

overall i personally think that this presdency will be a very dangorous one for owning guns and hunting in particular. but anyways back to why the ammo shelves are empty. it might be because alot of us in the hunting community are mainly in blue collar situations where it helps us to kill a couple of deer and 20 mallards and 30 geese a year on our food bill. and with the W2's and tax time appraoching everyone is probably getting their taxes in early and going out to buy as much ammo as they can because as far as i know ammo doesn't tend to go bad if stored correctly. thus if we do get into really hard times in america here there will be at least some form of being able to get meat on the table during the fall, even if we have to walk 20 miles to kill the deer or other game and drag it back another 20 miles.

oh and if anyone wants to talk on why gun licensing is a bad idea i'm pretty sure F&S will give us a forum for that no problem. and i can tell you in this day and age my computer that i sit at this very minute is by far more dangorous than ANY gun i could ever own.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I have no doubt that Billary, Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein, et. al, would all love take every gun away from every American in this country.

But I'd guess that roughly 250 million or more of the roughly 300 million Americans in this country own guns or support the rights of other Americans to own guns.

Last time I checked, our government still answered to the American people. That's why we have a new president (and new administration) who is nothing like the one we had for the last years.

Vote. Engage in democracy. Lobby for the NRA. Give public speeches. Publish letters and writings. Get people to join your cause. Nothing adverse will happen to our gun rights as long as pro-2nd. Amendment Americans keep elected officials sharply aware that without our votes, they lose their jobs.

TWD

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

N99 . . .

Bravo. I was unaware of the ammo price facts you stated in your first paragraph--I'm primarily a handloader, but I have noticed that the price of copper bullets in particular has gone up considerably in the last year or two--but I concur completely with your assessment that our president is a little too busy right now to take on the gun lobby.

As to whether the "ammunition shortage" is a ploy by ammunition makers to ultimately satisfy their corporate greed, I've wondered about that myself. Since I view corporations in general as evil entities spawned by Satan (not really, but my words accurately reflect my revulsion of them), I therefore view corporations with distrust, suspicion, and am apt to believe that "good conduct" is not part of their corporate charters though "runaway greed" is. I wish you were wrong, but I think you're right.

Your final paragraph states my own opinion better than I could. Again, bravo. People need to conquer their fears by reading anything and everything they can get their hands on promulgated by all sides of a debate, by talking, by questioning, by challenging, by arguing in a civilized way, by educating themselves (a nonstop, neverending process), and, finally, by forcing politicians to follow the will of the people who elected them or get the boot.

TWD

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from Bella wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

The point of ammo prices having risen greatly during the last few years is highly relevant here. I run my town's recycling center and can attest to the sharp rise (and subsequent fall) in scrap metal prices. Copper got up to $4 a pound and thieves were ripping the downspouts off old churches to sell for scrap. Lead got high enough I was getting $9 apiece for dead car batteries. Then came the fall, prices crashed. The last batch of dead batteries I sold I only got $3 each, still better than the buck or 2 I'd get when I started runnin' the show.
My own observation regarding the lack of scarcity here in my own region is more likely associated with the lack of shooters here, rather than market factors. We do have very restrictive gun laws here in Mass. and it does tend to discourage some. I think a bigger factor hindering would be firearms enthusiasts here is the lack of places to shoot! All along the BosWash corridor, (the great eastern megacity) population is far too dense with suburban sprawl. With houses 30 yards apart it is hard to find a place to site a proper range. I don't think this is due to any sort of conspiracy to disarm us, it is just that there is too damn many of us! I personally believe strongly in the ethic of sustainability, so when we bought land we made sure to get enough of it to do what we want. Finding the local Rod and Gun Club closed to new membership and not accessable I made my own range and I'm thinking of starting my own gun club too! (leave me out of your fun will ya, I'll go build my own playground!)
With my own range I have been able to bring new folks into the shootin' sport, build it, they will come!

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from WestGaHunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I'm never surprised to find a completely polarized "discussion" about the nation's politics.
For all who fear the bar-coding of ammunition, start pulling bullets and use a microscope to look for evidence of that. BTW, dremel one open and look inside the copper jacket, too. Don't you think they'd go that far to escape detection?
If you're not willing to go that far for your own proof save your spew until BATF shows up on your doorstep because of a stray shot you took at a horrible angle that crashed into a neighbors house.
I live in a red state where I hear the paranoic theories and irrational fears about Democrats' challenges to the 2nd Amendment three times a week just standing at the counter at Walmart. Gatherings of men standing around feeding on each other's paralytic fear.
You have a better chance at being shot by Dick Cheney than having a first-term president challenging gun-owning Americans over our right to own firearms and our ability to shoot back. So stop the incessant whining and go stand near Dick out there in the dove field.
Who has called Remington or Olin or Hornaday to start fact-gathering about the perceived ammo shortage? No one. Why am I not surprised. Why not ask the gun writers here to do that. They can take request you know, especially from customers.
Who called Exxon about the $4 price for a gallon of unleaded lst year? Same rules apply.
Of course, my scepticism tells me that a lot of you are Republicans and Libertarians who will say anything to foment fear and distrust in the American public to ensure the failure of President Obama. So I'm certain we'll hear this rant for three years and 11 months more.
I can change the channel; can you?

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

WestGaHunter . . .

I concur with much of your comment. Thank you for contributing.

Mr. Petzal, please directly ask the major ammo and bullet manufacturers in this country why the shelves in so many sporting goods and guns stores are empty, and why even Midway USA is canceling backorders for ammunition. This just happened to a friend of mine who ordered a case of .223 ammo weeks ago; Midway USA nixed his backorder because the company wrote him and said it couldn't be sure when or whether the ammo would ever arrive.

Also, please ask the ammo manufacturers to explain and justify their ever-higher prices.

Then publish a story about it in F&S. (Or permit me to do so, please. I'd be happy to take on this project.)

TWD

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from matthew wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

well evidently westgahunter didnt read alex_the_bob's article there one thing stuck out very clearly to me

"I think closing the gun show loophole, the banning of cop-killer bullets and I also think that making the assault weapons ban permanent, would be something that would be permitted under Heller,"

now last time i checked cops were still human. and last time i checked a 9mm and a .22 can kill a human, if it doesn't kill them it will do a bit of damage. anyone care to debate that just go think of the last animal you killed with one of those bullets how many of the those acctual bullets did you find still in the animals?

point being they will find a way and we need to stand up for our rights because without our loads for our guns. the guns become nothing more than an expensive club.

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from garybusam wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

The reason for the ammo shortage is the ammo accontability act that is in congress now. We as sportsmen need to contact our representatives and congresspersons and tell them to vote no on this bill

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

RE: Federal Premium - Ask the Expert Form
Tuesday, March 3, 2009 6:07 AM

Shortage is due to ammunition demand and military/government orders. We
expect primer shortage to continue through 2009.

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from TmH wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

from Bella wrote "The whole Obama will take your guns away is a shibboleth - The fact is that Obama has said 2 things, 1. he doesn't want to interfere with American sporting traditions 2, he might consider bringing back the Assault weapons ban. However, the American people after 8 years of lies, manipulation and fearmongering are more willing to listen to guys"

Bella unfortunately you're comments above and teh residual I didn't copy demonstrate that you are either blind or stupid. I understand that you've bought into the media's villification of PResident Bush advocating a double standard of verbal abbuse and lies that you and the media will scream about when applied to your messiah - B Obama. But, the real issue is how easy you cite lies of the past 8 years and ignore all the whoppers Obama and his administration have already put out there. Let's talk about just a couple. Obama cited that he wouldn't support earmarks - wow thats a doosy - 9,000 in the Omnibus and uncounted numbers in the Spendulus Bill. He stated early in his campaign that upon taking office he would pull all troops out of Iraq (stupid but he said it). Now he's says he's leaving 50K in there - we'll see I'll bet it end up being more. He said he wasn't going to raise taxes on us middle classers. Right he just calls it something else and thinks we're stupid. Carbon, HealthCare, $3.6T he is going to raise everyone's taxes! Finally, yes he and some lame sportsman group the Dems bought said he was for sportsmen. What a crock! He has hunted or fished a day in his life. While in the Illinois Senate he advocate a total - get it total ban of firearms ownership. Even in the deceptive statement that he touts sensible gun ownership laws - by whose standards (probably your Brady Campaign rules, BTW are you a memeber of that group?). Finally with the AG Holder acting in his place the lib Dems have added exponentially to what guns would be banned in the new Assault Weapons Ban. To name just a few the Remington 1100 semi auto shotgun, Springfield Armory M1, and there is a proposal to even include pump action shotguns now. So, don't pretend the lib Dems don't want to ulitmately ban gun ownership altogether, they're just taking a strategy of incrementally attacking and chipping away at our 2nd Amendment rights. Spew it somewhere else - Please!

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from Bella wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

You know TMH the kind of insults a body chooses to denigrate another are often more relevant to the insecurities of the person doing the insulting than that individuals target.
Obama ain't my messiah, I don't want no such thing. My internal condition is more accurately described as thoughtful suspicion of damn near everybody masked with a cheery smile and hokey aphorisms for any situation. I'm a pollyanna pessimist, and frankly the damage done by George Bush and company is in general so breathtaking I would have voted for damn near anybody to repudiate those self serving liars. As far as the Obama presidency goes I am in wait and see mode, he is a politician, I expect a bit of the usual political duplicity, but I want him to succeed, because if he fails it will be bad. It is likely to be bad anyway, but he got the job and his success is Americas success. I am also more comfortable having a guy in charge who has worked for positive social change on the grassroots level, rather than a corporate patsy. The mismanagement, secrecy and outright graft of the last administration amount to levels of perfidiousness that are tough to match in any administration. Relaxation of environmental standards, givaways of mineral rights on public lands, no bid contracts and other financial excesses are what put us in this economic downturn, that is unless you are a follower of that false messiah Rush Limbaugh.
If you believe that guy you'll believe anything. As a Previous poster noted there are people who want Obama to fail (like Limbaugh) and they will say anything and allege anything (with twisted statistics) to malign and spoil his name and efforts. If you want the president to fail you are no patriot. Rush is a self absorbed hypocrite attention seeker, or have you noticed the contradictions between what he says and what he does? He don't walk his talk. Of course gullible people never notice such contrasts between behavior and ideals, such persons only hear what they want to hear and therefore are perfect targets for spew mongers like Limbaugh.
The entire constitution is important to me, or did the parts of the constitution that the Bushies ignored matter to you? When Obama violates his oath, then impeach him (as should have happened with Bush and Cheney) untill then he is POTUS and if he fails, we fail. So goes America. So are you a patriot? I am. Let us all succeed together. And hope to god you never need to use all those guns you got stashed, because if it comes to that the future could be dark indeed. I already seen hard times, I don't prefer to go there again.

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from kenhillwa wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I bcan't believe people are blaming the shortage of ammo on the war. I go into the major stores and the shelves are empty of 38, 357 and 9mm rounds. Are these being used in high volumes in Iraq? I doubt it. I hear the manufacturers are working 24/6 to keep up with the demand rigt now. I think it is because people are afraid of the future, right or wrong, and buying in bulk. I'm sure the demand wil go down, but in the meantime, people want to know they can protect themselves without the government knowing exactly what they have.

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from rabbitpolice88 wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

I wouldn't call Obama an "excuse" he would take our guns and tax ammo in a heartbeat of he thought he could get away with it. I think people have a legit reason to be concerned.

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

It's the fear that Obama will do something. Just because Obama has done nothing yet does not mean that he won't. Hunters are smart enough to catch a wiff of NOT GOOD coming and prepare. I see him raising taxes on ammunition and guns, and also making a very valiant attempt at trying to get our guns registered.
Mike, i don't know if you knew this or not, but the democrats are trying to push a bill that would make it law to have all handguns and semi-automatic weapons registered. What would be next would be all shotguns, and then rifles. When they have it all registered, BAM! here they are ready to take them away now knowing that you have them.
I just feel sorry for anybody that would have to go around collecting the guns from people. 99% would not be happy. Of the 99% i would say that 75% or more would put up a fight.

Nate

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from Bella wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Thank you TWD, I think I agree with your comment 100%.
I would be curious to know if there is ammo on the shelves of other "blue" states as there is here in Mass (except at thrallmart, where they seem to be carrying less and less shootin' stuff anyway). If there is ammo to be had in "blue" states but the shelves are bare in "red" states, that would be a rather telling demographic. Perhaps "red" state paranoia and "sore looser syndrome" might have the effect of causing a run on supplies, while in the "Blue" folks have had their fears ameliorated somewhat.
Oh well, I gave up on expecting human beings to act rationally years ago. Humans tend to make most decisions based on direct emotional response, sometimes tempered by the memory of past emotional reactions. People can and do learn,and even change behaviors, but rarely for any rational reason. People liked GWB because he openly admitted making decisions "from the gut" or based on his personal emotional response. Most people will not admit it but the notion that the "decider" was using the same gut based analysis as they is comforting. Another emotional reaction, right there. Hey I'm no stoic myself, but I do try to look with perspective on things and my own emotional reactions when I look to an uncertain future are terribly mixed. I remind myself though, that the future has always been uncertain, change is always certain, and I have survived the poop hitting the air impeller before. Then I calm down.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Mike:

Did a single one of the proposed firearms bans or anti-gun legislation you mention in your recent post get passed into law? No.

Did Obama change course on guns during his campaign to run for President? Yes.

Why? Because Obama as a Senator responsible for his state is much different than Obama as the President of our 50 states and U.S. territories, answerable to the American people in totality. Also, Obama would not have been elected had he attempted to significantly reduce or deprive Americans of their gun rights.
He is intensely aware of these vital facts.

Truth: More Americans exist that like their guns than Americans who exist who can't tolerate any guns at all.

Truth: There are many millions of additional Americans who will concede that reasonable, sane citizens do, in fact, have the right to possess firearms even if they themselves personally choose not to do so.

Truth: Most critically, the majority of Americans will not tolorate any one person or any one political entity or group of political entities from screwing too much or too far with their 2nd Amendment gun rights, particularly now that the U.S. Supreme Court has actually finally declared that Americans have the right to possess firearms. Anyone who dares to seriously screw with gun rights on a national basis will be defeated, or at least their proposed legislation will be.

The most critical truth: Abolishing guns and ammunition isn't even on the President's radar screen these days. Saving this country--and keeping America intact as a country--is.

FDR was as correct in 1929 as he would be if he were here today to repeat his words again: The only thing the American people have to fear, is fear itself.

TWD

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from buckhunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Could it be inventory tax?

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from jay wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Take it for what its worth but the guy at walmart said "its because of the war". Obviously he doesn't have any more of a reason than the rest of us have.

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from Sheepdog wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Please don't forget that there has been an tremendous amount of ammo expended in the middle east theater of operations. My police department has had great difficulty getting ammunition for qualification as havem many.

Again, Obama and his administration is very anti-second amendment, with respect to those here who aren't worried about his agenda, I ain't drinkin' that kool-aid.

As someone already commented on - The Blair Holt Bill introduced by Bobby Rush (D-IL); one example of many to come.

Check out the present bill in New Hampshire Reaffirming State's Rights. A number of other states are following suit: http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/02/new-hampshire-reclaims-...

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from Ibewsparkie wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I don't believe that it is just the Obama factor, HR 45, or etc. There has been a tremendous amount of chatter at work, at the grocery store, at the gun shop, about being prepared for a coming hoard of starving people / revolt, all regarding the crashing economy. Even the states themselves are worried about what the feds are doing. To reitterate Sheepdog, Just google news search for "state sovereignty" and read a few articles. the states are starting to reassert their rights. We were born as a republic, and are becoming a socialist federal democracy. Even the typical public is seeing the writing on the wall, and are getting ready to cover ther butts. The feds have quadrupled the amount of money in circulation in two moneys, simply by running the printing presses. the amount of printed cash between 1980 and 2000 doubled, what happened to the price of cars?

Just a bunch of scared, but wise, rednecks, covering their butts.

If food quadruples in a year to a year and a half, and no jobs are available that pay enough, what's going to happen? Remember the old Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared."

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from dreamweaver wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

The real reason ammunition is hard to find in some states is an e-mail message that is traveling rapidly around the net. I don't know if it's true or not, but here's the message I got in my inbox. If you follow the link at the bottom to the website it sure looks real. I live in PA and I followed the link at the website to the actual bill before the PA House

> Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
> It has already started....
> Ammunition Accountability Legislation
> Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take
> your guns? Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun
> world have no problem with taking your ammo!
> The bill 20 that is being pushed in 18 states (including
> Illinois and Indiana ) requires all ammunition to be encoded
> by the manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. So
> they will know how much you buy and what calibers.
> Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009
> unless the ammunition is coded.
> Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by
> July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo.)
> They will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so
> every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or
> more!
> If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take
> your gun!
> This legislation is currently pending in 18 states:
> Alabama , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Hawaii ,
> Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky , Maryland , Mississippi ,
> Missouri , New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode
> Island , South Carolina , Tennessee , and Washington .
> Send to your friends in these states AND fight to dissolve
> this BILL!!
> To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring
> this legislation and the specific legislation for each
> state, go to:
> http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

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from earlybird wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

There is some really good debate on this subject. "Why and what" questions concerning the shortage of ammo will be known to us all by next year, ia all liklihood. I suspect the big legislative push by the Democrats will happen then. My son in law is a deputy sheriff in a large southern city. He said that the requests for gun purchase permits has increased from 2-3 per day, to 200-300 per week! Reports from recent gun shows give the same indication. The gun buying public is anticipating legislation that will limit the ability to purchase firearms, or in the alternative legislate taxes that will make the cost of ammo and firearms soar!

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from Big Mark wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Well for those of you who thought Mr. Obama wasn't going to go after your guns. It is reported in the congressional notes for today. Mr. Obama proposed reintroducing the assault weapon ban to include phases which include semiautomatic shotguns and high capacity handguns. Sales taxes on the ammunition for those weapons to increase several hundred percent.
But by some fluke Mrs. Pelosi claimed the timing isn't right and asked for it to be tabled until a later date.
Watch what they do not what they say when running for office!

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from Alex_The_Bob wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

T.W. Davidson,

Concerning your comment that "President Obama has made no moves to restrict the sales of guns or ammo to law-abiding, sane, reasonable citizens."

You forgot to add the word "yet" after the word "citizens". Please read the link below, which came out February 26th, 2009.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

It is coming. People's concerns for the second amendment are well justified it appears...

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from JLeMay wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Funny - I came out to the web in search of answers to this very same question. I just got done modifying a 20 gauge pump shotgun for home defense and realized afterward that there's not a box of 23/4 20 gauge buckshot to be found in my county. I then went to see if I could purchase some online- no dice. Out of stock everywhere.

I read an interview with Barack Obama in this very publication some time ago- I think our guns and ammo are safe for the foreseeable future. I think the stockpiling of ammo is part of what I like to think of as the "wingnut revolution". If Barack Obama had a different name and were white, I have no doubt I could get my hands on the shells I need.

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

WestGAHunter:

If you are at the stage where the BATF shows up at your door. It is too late.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Cheney was at fault cause he pulled the trigger, his friend was an idiot and can only blame himself for putting himself in that position. And no, Cheney shouldn't be charged with anything. He wouldn't be here in the midwest, guess its different in NE. Why do libdems go over the line every time they try to make a point?

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from Bella wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

Westgahunter, there is a certain good feeling I get too, when I have my hand on one of my firearms for some good reason, For the reason having observed this also in so many others, I am considering if we are catagorizing ourselves correctly. The way so many firearms afficionados interact with their arms seems to corrospond more to a religion than a political issue. We need a "Gun Church" that admits and allows folk to hold more than one faith at a time, Christians, Muslims and Jews could all join in reverence at Gun Church, along with Native American Shamen, Shintoists, Witches and Nothern tradition Heathens, all aiming for the same targets!
No one can doubt the spiritual value in bearing arms and martial arts practice. Marksmen and martial artists both learn self control, breath control and mental focus. The ability to attain the capacity for achieving victory in conflict yet to learn not to terrorize others when one has the power to do so promotes the sense of personal honor; a concept often neglected today.
People gain mastery in both marksmanship and martial arts by submitting to a mentor who teaches them that which one cannot aquire from books. This promotes respect between young and old.
Hunting also is a spiritual pursuit, or it should be considered so, for when it is considered so positive ethics are more likely to be instilled in young hunters. Gun Church!
We'd likely have to work out the theology, I'd like to see the mystery of steel worked into it somehow, you know how steel starts out as iron rich dirt and if you put it through the fire and beat the hell out of it then do it again, you eventually get fine hard flexible steel that you can make a blade or a gun barrel from. The steel is forged, milled of the superfulous, tempered & polished then you have something fine, though there is a lot of ways to totally bodge the process on the way. People are like steel. Some never quite make it past that dried blood colored mud, others are cast iron (they been smelted, but they are brittle). Then there are those whose steel is mild and untempered, they will bend and not take and edge. The ideal is to be like the finest work, true bored, tempered steel, precise and dependable. I believe these things, Gun Church!
I don't want no bossy prophet types involved here, There are enough new religions run by megalomaniacs, we can all be our own clergy and minister with powder and ball! Gun Church! Hey!

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from summit229 wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

Not picking at you Clay, but at Federals answer, Of Course the shortage is due to DEMAND. That says absolutely nothing. There would be no shortage if there wasn't demand, and without demand there would be no shortage. Sounds to me like they're talking like politicians.

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from Bella wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

ThenTWD, we are in accord. I hope we all get to keep our arms and I hope that we all get through whatever looms ahead.

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from hunt_fish_sleep wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

TWD, If you're shopping at Gander for ammo, you're paying far too much. Head on down to your local Walmart. They do have less selection, but the price is unbeatable. Our Walmart was out of ammo for the longest time, only recently have they gotten more ammo then they know what to do with.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Hunt_fish_sleep . . .

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it.

TWD

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

T.W. Davidson
"Did a single one of the proposed firearms bans or anti-gun legislation you mention in your recent post get passed into law? No."
It doesn't matter whether or not it got passed, what matters is that he introced and support these legislations, and we don't need that, especially not now with a democratic majority.

Nate

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from AlaskanPride wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I had a friend tell me other day "Obama will make a box of ammo $100-150" My reaction...are you @%#$ing kidding me?

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from New Age Bubba wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

By the way, this is a recent article from the Financial Times on copper prices:

Copper up 6% amid hopes of China demand
By Chris Flood

Published: March 5 2009 02:00 | Last updated: March 5 2009 02:00

Copper led a rally for the base metals sector yesterday amid expectations that China would announce new spending plans for infrastructure and manufacturing today on top of the stimulus plans which were unveiled in November.

Copper jumped 6 per cent to $3,750 a tonne yesterday, up 22.1 per cent since the start of the year. Copper stocks at London Metal Exchange warehouses fell 4,850 tonnes yesterday and have dropped 22,000 tonnes over the past week. Stock declines have forced some of the hedge funds that were betting on further price weakness to close their short positions.

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from shedantlers wrote 5 years 4 weeks ago

In order for things to change, we should encourage more kids and more women to shot and hunt.

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from huntcamp wrote 5 years 4 weeks ago

First of all do not believe anything Obama says about the issue. He will tell both sides what they want to hear. Not just him though all polititions. Look at his past and his past is not for us. It is up to us to not let them take what is ours. Obama is every sportsmen or women's worst enemy. This stimilus package is not a good idea. How is making free contrceptives going to help stimulate the economy.

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from jmoss wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

Glad to see most of the mania turned out to be a red herring. No doubt some of it will come back in the last half of 2011 and early 2012, but I was just getting into guns and to see the ammo and gun prices skyrocket in such a way was pretty disheartening.

Politics aside, demand was high and supply stayed the same. Since then, supply has ramped up and demand has leveled off. The lesson here is how psychology can affect demand.

I still want a nice AR, and I don't want to pay $1200 for it.

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

Steve, respectively I disagree. The Tea Party emergence has nothing to do with it.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

Supply and demand tilted on it's end by hoarding for an imaginary crisis. I have not seen an empty ammo shelf in nearly 2 years. Oh, woo-hoo --- it is now 2012. Dated post reared from the grave.

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from Paul Farris wrote 1 year 1 week ago

I conducted some local research to find out why our Bass Pro, Wal-Mart, Dicks, didn't have ammo...the answers were aggrivating to say the least. What's happening is we're all willing to pay too much for AMMO. When I asked folks at the local retail shops what happens when ammo arrives, they said "most of the local Gun Shop owners and their employees are waiting in line when we get it"...yes, you heard right, your friendly local Gun Shop Owners. When I asked one of these owners, he said "damn right, I just spent 50,000 thousand dollars on retail ammo and am reselling it online and at the store".... If it's not on the shelves at Wal-Mart, they have to buy from me or buy it online...

So, as long as you're willing to pay 30.00 a box for 22lr, these folks are motivated to clean off the retail shelfs so they can resell it to you. I'm not saying this is the "entire" reason for ALL the empty shelves, BUT IT IS A HUGE PART OF IT. If a Gun Shop can make 300% on an item in demand, you can bet your last 22lr they will do what they can to keep it in demand.... And at 300% markup they can afford it...

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from Sarge01 wrote 1 year 1 week ago

If Obama doesn't have a anti-gun agenda, why when the country's economic shape is in a terrible condition, unemployment is terrible, people on foodstamps is staggering and people say that gun control is on the bottom of their list as far as priorities go, is Obama running around all over the country on his "Gun Control Tour" using kids and police for backdrops to try to get knee jerk reactions for his gun control agenda. There are 50% of the Sandy Hook parents that don't want gun control but he didn't give them a ride to Washington on Air Force One, wonder why ?

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from mikemontague wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Well T.W. it is simple. People believe, correctly so by the way, that ammunition prices will absolutely skyrocket during this president's administration. Ammunition prices have already increased about 40% in the last year and a half in my region.

Do I believe that they will "outlaw" ammunition? Sure if they had their way. But more realistically I think they have chosen to use a "back door" approach.

They will simply make it so expensive through the implementation of taxes and fees that the average person will have difficulty purchasing more than a few boxes a year. They achieve the result of a partial ban without having to fight a lengthly drawn out battle to win it.

Check the shelves containing reloading equipment also. Dry. This includes many online sellers who have most of what you need on back order.

Get ready for a New York City school safety tax even if you live in Utah. Get ready for increased Federal, state, and the ever popular "special local" tax, etc, etc, etc. All coming to a sporting goods store near you.

Mike

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from rabbittdog wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I wonder if the buying rush on ammo has anythig to do with the rumor that they want to barcode all ammo. any comments??

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from Hogman7 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Just wait, obama and the anti-gunners will tax ammo, guns, scopes, laser sights, and know telling what else. Sarah Brady will champion obama's cause as well.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

All:

It occurred to me a moment ago that Uncle Dick (as in former VP Cheney) will always have guns and ammunition--and, I'm absolutely sure, will never ever face an empty ammo shelf at a sporting goods store--yet I think most of here, and regardless of our widely varied political leanings, would likely agree that he shouldn't have guns and ammo in his possession. After all, our former VP accidentally shot his best friend in the face with a shotgun, then permitted (or encouraged) his PR minions to spin a story to the press which strongly (but falsely)implied his best friend was at fault for getting shot.

Why wasn't Mr. Cheney charged with, at a minimum, deadly conduct, which in this situation would have been a felony? Particularly when any of us, in the same situation, certainly would have been? Does anyone believe there isn't strong, real and actual class disparity in this country?

TWD

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Nate . . .

I understand your point, however what Mr. Obama did as Senator Obama is not necessarily the same as what Mr. Obama is doing, or has done, as president since he assumed the post about 47 days ago. Also, I read on the news this morning that Speaker of the House Pelosi (a Democrat) essentially vanquished any proposed Assault Rifle Ban with her news interview in which she stated that the more sensible thing to be done across the country (in lieu of an Assault Rifle Ban) would be for the states (and presumably the Feds, too) to enforce existing gun laws. What I find particularly interesting is that Pelosi's comment happens to almost exactly echo a major argument and talking point . . . of the NRA. Could Pelosi's real motive be to slow the sales of firearms and ammo across the country by saying soothing words that match NRA talking points? Sure. In fact, probably yes. But maybe it is also because Pelosi and others in Congress realize that the majority of their constituents across the country are in no mood at this time to tolerate politicians' infringements upon the peoples' 2nd Amendment rights, and are acting accordingly.

TWD

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

Nate . . .

I understand your point, however what Mr. Obama did as Senator Obama is not necessarily the same as what Mr. Obama is doing, or has done, as president since he assumed the post about 47 days ago. Also, I read on the news this morning that Speaker of the House Pelosi (a Democrat) essentially vanquished any proposed Assault Rifle Ban with her news interview in which she stated that the more sensible thing to be done across the country (in lieu of an Assault Rifle Ban) would be for the states (and presumably the Feds, too) to enforce existing gun laws. What I find particularly interesting is that Pelosi's comment happens to almost exactly echo a major argument and talking point . . . of the NRA. Could Pelosi's real motive be to slow the sales of firearms and ammo across the country by saying soothing words that match NRA talking points? Sure. In fact, probably yes. But maybe it is also because Pelosi and others in Congress realize that the majority of their constituents across the country are in no mood at this time to tolerate politicians' infringements upon the Peoples' 2nd Amendment rights, and are acting accordingly.

TWD

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from New Age Bubba wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

I beg to differ with the Obama/Pelosi rants, two things for you to consider: the war, and the economy!

Don't any of you remember during the 60's when houses were built with aluminum wiring because copper was so expensive? I thought you had to over 50 to subscribe to F&S. And haven't you seen the current reports of houses being stripped for copper? Also, I live in Texas and there is no shortage of ammo here at my locally owned store, but prices are higher (see preceeding two points!).

Apparently the economic debacle (is this really Obamas's fault?) is causing an inventory control panic among all types of business from what I can tell from the headlines. Rumor is that a big box outdoors chain doing business in Texas on I-35 is about to go under this year (no, not Cabellas).

Have you considered re-loading?

Bubba

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

New Age Bubba,
would happen to be the same bubba that always had great commentary and opinion on the old site?

Nate

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from IowaGuy wrote 4 years 20 weeks ago

The scarcity and price is related is all self-driven by the people buying ammo. They are scared someone will take their guns or tax their ammo. The price and scarcity has been going up since 9/11. People like to use Obama as an excuse.

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from Ben Reese wrote 3 years 31 weeks ago

Also, and it is in the news and on this message board...people are afraid of the United Nations Arms Agreement that the main pusher was Clinton, and Pelosi pushing this while all America's eyes were on the oil spill crises a few months ago.

My understanding is that people are afraid that if this is passed the UN will be dictating what we here in America can do with our guns..keep them or not. This may or may not really be a case, but it has Americans afraid that they will have no personal pertection if it is true. I mean talk about coming door to door demanding your guns, etc. True or not it has gun owners on the move.

I just yesterday mailed a 2 page letter to my congressman concerning this UN treaty. I hope others will follow suit on writing their congressman about our rights under the 2nd Amendmant.

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from Jeff Shear wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

Guys, we've been fighting 19 (or so) man-years of war now, and doctrine says that we lay down lots of fire rather than lay down lives. For that reason, the demand for ammunition to fight this wars has created an enormous demand for brass, copper, gunpowder and lead. (And whatever they use to make primers.) It's a simple matter of supply and demand. Demand exceeds supply, and the price goes up. Maybe with the war in Iraq winding down (although we feed tons of ammo to PSCs and Iraqis) we'll see more supply and lower prices. Also, the troops will be cut back under the new budget plan-- 100,000 ground troops -- may free up more ammo. After all, what are bullets if not a commodity, kind of like pork bellies with a blast. So, I'm no economist, but I think ammo went up because war ate up supply, and 40 million gun owners panicked. Now, who set off the panic? That's the real question, not why has ammo disappeared from the shelves. Bottom line, when we're out of Afghanistan prices will come down and folks will quit rumor mongering at gun shows. Wow, I wish everyone would relax. And, hey, loading-your-own is fun!

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from steve182 wrote 2 years 10 weeks ago

A predicted collapse of our monetary system also contributed to ammo shortages. As did the emergence of the Tea Party.

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from Mike Stevenson wrote 1 year 6 weeks ago

America is in a panic! because our President wants to ban guns. He wants to take the freedom we have to own and possess firearms and re-write the Constitution to do so. I have read some of the other posts and people cannot or will not believe that Obama would do this...Well if you are not a Democrat you are not on board with the "Plan" for our country! Even some say the shortage is because the military gets priority over consumer. Well either we are fighting somewhere that Americans don't know about or the government has plans to stop production and distribution of ammo then your firearms are paperweights. Some are saying the prices of metals are too high and some are hard to get...REALLY!!!! When we went to war with Japan, we made ammo and even then we had ammo!!!! Democrats challenging the 2nd Amendment rights are for real if you want to believe or not! I think the ammo makers are afraid that the government is going to put them out of business and they will just because Obama has handlers that want to ban all guns not just a few, get rid of them all. Wake up!!!!! This is happening all over America and what happens if we run into a scenario like the movie "Red Dawn" and we get invaded by another country??? Nobody has ammo to fight??? just give the country away without a fight? Just wait ammo will go up drastically! because of one thing....OBAMA!

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from Cbass wrote 1 year 5 weeks ago

Deadlines!

Ammunition suppliers are either under-ordering, or their suppliers are underproducing. Both stand to reap huge profits. Demand can be met. Pay the overtime. Your customers will afford it.

The construction business has understood this for decades. That's why I'm working overtime on a bridge 450 miles from my home, missing my wife and children, .243, .30-06, and brand new 7mm STW that is yet unfired.

All the best everyone!

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from Knife Freak wrote 45 weeks 6 days ago

Paul
Its not 30 bucks a box for .22 lr its 100 bucks and up for a brick of 500 rds.

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from Bella wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

The whole Obama will take your guns away is a shibboleth, a red herring. The fact is that Obama has said 2 things, 1. he doesn't want to interfere with American sporting traditions 2, he might consider bringing back the Assault weapons ban. However, the American people after 8 years of lies, manipulation and fearmongering are more willing to listen to guys like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity than more reasonable and accurate sources.
Funny here in Massachusetts we have some of the toughest gun laws in the country but hey, there is ammo on the shelves and there has been no run on preban SKS carbines or other "black rifles" either. My local gun store has plenty of inventory. Perhaps this is because New Englanders overwhelmingly voted for Obama (I did) and greeted his election with a sigh of relief. Perhaps in parts of the country where the fearmongering is more prevelant this leads to panicked buying of hardware and rounds. Hey, with the oncoming economic difficulties ammo is likely a good investment, lead ain't gonna get any cheaper soon. Obama will not take your guns away. 1, he has enough on his plate cleaning up the neocons mess, 2 he doesn't want to "shoot himself in the foot" by advocating something so controversial. 3 how would the feds find all the guns there are to be found?
I sense the fact that Americans horrified by the perversions of the torturers, the greed of the deregulators and the military industrial complex and the big oil companies united to throw off the deceitful neocons but the folks who drank the neocon coolaid must be feeling rather insecure these days, now that Obama is in the White House. Americans, when the going gets tough, go shopping. If you are paranoid as hell, buying every box of ammo in stock is like an obsessive compulsive self soothing tactic. A gun in the hand does make a body feel more secure, perhaps this is like Neocon Lorazepam. Oh and I don't doubt Obama will raise taxes...on those who have been avoiding paying their share by stashing money in the Caymans and in Zurich. The income tax was always supposed to dun those best able to afford it but in the last decade the richest 1% of Americans have used their influence to escape nearly all taxation with the connivance of those who would destroy the middle class and create a corporate aristocracy to lord it over everyone else. Willy Sutton was asked why he robbed banks and he said "thats where the money is!"
The working and middle classes have their backs to the wall, The corporations (which somehow wound up having more rights than actual human beings) got everything they wanted during the Neocons regime and impoverished the rest of us. Lets make em give it back! They already exported all the jobs overseas, working people without jobs can't pay taxes so go where the money is and take back those ill gotten gains.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Bella . . .

Thank you for, in my opinion, a brilliant analysis and commentary. I don't agree with every single word you've said, but I do agree with about 98% of it. (For me, that's nearly a miracle.)

I agree with you that President Obama is at present attempting to save the country from, financially speaking, permanantly going down the drain and taking the heart of the country with it. He doesn't have time to screw with Americans' clearly established 2nd Amendment gun rights. He's not going to have time for years to come. And he has said that he has no interest in screwing with peoples' right to own and possess guns. I believe him. I voted for him, too.

To borrow a quote from one of our greatest presidents, FDR, back when this country was amidst the dark days of The Great Depression, I think the "only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."

Like you, I believe the neoconservatives repeatedly and materially:

1. Lied to the American people about their excuse for invading a foreign country and starting a foreign war: the alleged WMDS that don't exist and didn't exist when we rolled into Bagdhad.

2. Not only permitted but advocated the use of torture, secret prisons, and not-so-secret prisons on foreign soil, thus showing the rest of the world that we have the hypocritical audacity to preach and lecture and harp at countries around the world about protecting human rights while egregiouisly violating them ourselves whenever we feel like it, wherever we feel like it, against anyone we wish. Gosh, this sounds an awful lot like late 1930s Germany. Or Japan in China just a year or two later.

3. Sent--or permitted--this country to slide toward bankruptcy while banks and corporations--and their executives--robbed the American people blind;

4. Protected corporations and banks at the sacrifice of individual citizens' rights, freedoms and savings;

5. Ruined America's former hard-earned good will and good standing with most or all all of the civilized world--because no independent country and no civilized person likes a bully, although that is exactly what America was for 8 years under the neoconservatives.

By the way, I wore a uniform for 8 years. I know you wore a uniform. I think we both have a little standing here.

Unlike the neoconservatives who gladly urged the lower class and middle class families of America to send their daughters and sons off to war, the neoconservatives--and their own daughters and sons--don't serve in our armed forces, haven't served, and are almost certainly never going to serve. Just like their can't-get-their-hands-dirty, can't-actually-risk-their-own-tender butts--poppas and mommas. People like the loathsome Carl Rowe, who in my opinion either is, or is perilously close to being, a traitor to this country. Just like some of his former bosses.

Imagine the following: Every pro-war Senator's and Congressman's sons and daughters are involuntarily drafted and, after 13 weeks of crawling around in the mud and the heat and the art of detecting boobie traps, and after engaging in "Combat In The Urban Environment" training for another month or two, are sent directly to the front lines as infantry or other direct combat arms soldiers or Marines. Put them right up front. Where the bleeding and dying is.

Does anyone wish to speculate how long our foreign wars would last under these--if they existed or came to exist--real, actual, sacrifice-from-and-of-the-power-elite conditions?

I think many Americans are very afraid these days, but they don't exactly know what it is they're afraid of. I also believe that many Americans are in a sort of circle-the-wagons-mode right now, and aren't willing to seriously think about and shock themselves into discovering that they fear . . . ghosts that don't exist, rumors that aren't true, terrible laws that haven't been passed and aren't going to be, taxes that don't exist and aren't going to, and 2nd Amendment rights that will last as brightly and strongly as this country does, or beyond.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself. That's what I believe.

Please keep up the good commentary, Bella. Your words are like the effect of a heavy rain storm on a wild fire: they help clear the smoke, cool the air, and dampen--or stop--the spread of the fire.

TWD

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