Are you a young or old, is there a good reason for this? I can understand a 410 for some upland game, if your a great shot. But I guess at some point you have to ask yourself if your using enough gun. A 22 will kill a deer but is it proper. You have to decide that for yourself. When I shoot ducks with a 12 gauge with steel shot I feel under-gunned. In the days of lead you could really knock them down. Many of the guides I know switch to 10 gauges when geese come in.

The .410 is a good gun for everything from dragonflies to swans, but as it said in Field and Stream, you have to know its limitations

Yeah, I'm also curious about what non-tox shell in .410 you're using for ducks?

A .old single shot .410 was the first shotgun I got and I have used it for all types of game.

a .410 is a good upland gun, it is light and you can carry it all day effortlessly, it is good for young and old shooters alike if you want to fine tune your wing shooting, if you can hit it with a .410 you surely can hit it with any other gun. it has sufficient knockdown power for pheasant and grouse alike.

Yes, they do make .410 steel shot. Probably shouldn't. If you hunt uplands on a federal bird refuge you must use non-toxic shot. I'm guessing that's the market for those shells, not waterfowl.

it will work just fine. all ou have to do is hit the bird

Sayfu, just curious but how is hunting with a .410 is not giving conideration to game? If you know the guns limit and do not push it than it is just as sportsman as a 12 guage. It only takes one pellet to kill something it is not defined as the caliber that pellet comes from. A .410 has more power than you think it just depends on who's hands it is in. My grandfather can shoot his .410 way better than I can shoot any other gun. I think it depends on the skill of the shooter.

Well to me he is because if he is shooting ducks than they are within 30 yards to me thats what its all about. Plus pellet count has nothing to do with hence why a .410 is a good shooters gun. It only takes one pellet to kill a bird not 50. I killed my first coyote at 40 yards with a .410 and the thing ran maybe 30 yards and that is generous. I do not hunt ducks with a .410 because I am not that good of a shot. However I have and still at times use it for upland hunting and it has the same knock down power as any other caliber you just have to shoot them in the head as is ture with any caliber. It all comes down to the skill and comfortability with the gun. Just because you can't do it does not mean it is not ethical or completly fine for someonelse to do it. I find someone who hunt's with a .410 as more of a sportsman than anyone else because they are not out to kill rather get a show from the birds with the occassional chance at a great shot.

I doubt they will because they are not that STUPID. seriously 3 pellets to kill a bird. Sorry one pellet through the brain kills anything roaming this earth. Also they do make steel shot for 65 guage and I have seen them in 4's. Thus if waterfowl hunting with a 65 guage than the duck must be close and that is what good hunters do, they get close to the game. Sorry you do not need a ten guage to kill a damn duck or pheasant or quail but if I take your advice I will make sure to load my .416 rigby the next time I go rabbit hunting.

With a shot shell? Talk flying birds and shot shells. What are you using in that 65 guage?

The problem is I know more than you!!! Seriously you say they dont even make steel shot for .410's when they do. I think you need to read up or shut up!!!

If you think you can get but a few #4 steel in a 65 guage you've been smokin again. And, even if you could It is UNSPORTSMANLIKE...why would you use such a stupid settup anyway? Pose the question to Phil on the "BIRD PAGE" He's taking shotgun questions right now. Go for it. He'll probably be nice to you, and say you are only a little bit stupid.

Plus if you actually went to that sight you would see 4's aren't the only option :). Also no where did I say it was ideal for the NORMAL hunter I said marksman (big difference). If the .410 did not work than people would never use it and two there would be no shells because no one would bye them. Guess it goes to show that people are better than you. I am not one of them because I do not use one for ducks just upland but guess what it kills stuff.

One a bird is a bird planted or wild so if you can kill one you can kill the other especially when hunting with pointing dogs. Two I have a degree that allows me to be a game warden. I use 4 shot on ducks because it patterns great out of my chokes. Once again if you read my post I do not hunt ducks with a .410 only upland which is lead shot. Also yes there is irresponsible people out there and if a .410 was not ethical than it would not be allowed to be used by law (learned that in warden school). Laslty Marajuana is legal in the state of california, it is healthier than tobacco, and has its place in the medical field. So that argument is invalid except in the point people mis use it. Same as a .410 some people would mis use it hence in my arguments why I said marksman once again which is diffferent than some idiot. Your parents must have dropped you down the stairs as an infant.

Well considering I am a warden amoung other things for the feds I think I am a bit more qualified than some guy rambling on a website. I just try to help people who actually are not the people who think they need a punt gun to kill a mouse.

Actually the feds issue use .410 for self denfense. It is a nasty little round. The gun is much under looked. We actually the use of .410 for waterfowl and upland birds using the Remington HeviShot. Being with the FWS waterfowl is our main objective and we take kids out and have ssen kids use .410's up to 12's. With kids the shots are easy generally mallards or pintails that are locked up landing in the decoys at 10-15 yards and the .410 with heavy shot knocks them ducks dead. I don't need any luck but thanks anyways we go through six years of college six months of combat training and six months of firearm proficincy. I earned everything I got and will enjoy passing hunting on to the youth who still have a chance. Have a great day as this is my last post you.

mdpaulus here in Wyoming the wardens also took us youth hunting with .410's and it was great. My first hunt ever was a pheasant hunt with a .410 and the warden had his dog and it was truely the best thing I could have asked for at that age. They were the ones that hooked me on hunting for life. Thank you for doing what you do and to all other game wardens that serve our public.

Ya I do becuase I was told and taught by game wardens here in Wyoming just as he talked about. I also killed my first deer with a .410 on game warden youth hunt as well as ducks, pheasants and grouse all killed with a .410. So ya I know he is telling the truth and knows his stuff.

I do not use one still I shoot mostly a 20 but at times a 12 just depends on what and where I am hunting. I just started my hunting journeys with a .410 as did the C.O.'s here and my father and my grandpa. The only times I get out the .410 anymore is for a rabbit or squirrel. The main reason is I cannot afford the shells for it.

Everyone is right you are a MORON!!!

If it just takes name calling to get a victory I beat you long ago Sayfu. lol

this is unethical. If you are sensitive to noise use a 20 gauge. there is no difference in noise. Its the same as hunting deer with a .22. it can be done. Honestly you can do it but it's always better to kill it instantly.

Who determines if something is unethical or unsportsmanlike? Thats what I want to know, I killed a multitude of ducks last year with winchester 3/8 oz 3" #6 shot .410 loads. Where I hunt them they are in your face close range and it is ALL that I need, they are travelling pretty hot @ 1400fps and thats pretty much the average speed for a waterfowl load. They kill no problem. A hunter should never be determined by his methods, especially if they are legal and ethical. In my mind I determine ethical as one shot kill everytime, which it is, you just need to hit the target. It is all you ever need, people just want 12ga for larger ducks like mallards and geese from longer ranges and so that they don't miss as much. I like the challenge and it has always worked for me.

Boy did this thread heat up. First, all this talk about the lethality of pellets in the head is nonsense. If any of you have been at this any time at all you have seen plenty of birds shot in the head that didn't die. Secondly, for every bird not hit in the head, how many pellets hit it other places without enough juice to bring the bird down? That is the point of the pattern density and power discussions. All these claims that the birds shot with .410 ALL fell dead tells me that a lot of them flew away banged up. There is, of course, a point of diminishing returns. Like the guys who shoot 3.5" shells at geese landing on them in a layout blind. Turning a fine bird into hamburger isn't ethical either. Yes, it's dead, but it's also wasted, and that's the worst case scenerio for hunting ethics. The odds of bringing a pheasant or duck down - dead or alive - with a .410 are absurdly lower than they are for even a 20 gauge. That's just a fact given the .410's physical properties. The issue is not about how well the gun can be shot. It's about probability. And particularly probability of NOT causing unnecessary pain and suffering. If you guys wanna take chances, drive on the freeway without a seatbelt. But don't cause others, particularly wildlife, to suffer because of a "taking risks is fine" ethic.

On most days I bat .500 or better shooting honkers with a 3" mag 12 gauge. I'm sorry, but it is totally absurd to think anyone could have that kind of average using a puny .410. And I'm not a long ball hitter either. In spite of my legendary effectiveness, I have punched a hell of a lot of em at thirty yards or less and they still flew away banged up. It doesn't feel good but at least I can say I did my best for them. I can't begin to imagine how many more geese would have flown away crippled if I'd been using a pea shooter instead. Could I then still say the same thing? Not without lying to myself.

Don't know why anyone would want to go less than 20 Ga. It doesn't save you anything on shells! I bought my son a ann HR 410 for his 9th birthday. Dam thing kicked worse than my citori 12 Ga.

To all his own but stupid is a little far. People dye from .410 accidents as my cousin was killed three years ago by a .410. They were squirrel hunting and my cousin was walking up a hill and got shot in the head and the report said it was around 50 yards. I hate to talk about it but it proves the power the little gun punches. It is classified as an ethical big game caliber by state law. I do not care what you think but all calibers need to be respected as some may suprise you that off the charts of pellet counts etc they still kill.

Doubt it very, very much that he was shot at 50 yds. Somebody's math is a little suspect. When you can't kill a bird at 50 yds. with a .410 I doubt that 7.5 shot, or smaller using a .410 will kill a human.

I don't think anyone is being heartless. A kid dying from gunshot wound is always a tragedy. The greater tragedy is that apparently the official story on record for the accident is untrue. I am in the midst of a scandalous piece of extremely stressful litigation over the cause of my son's death. I understand only too well how important it is to get the facts right when dealing with the death of a loved one. Closure is much more than just a word. And Sayfu is absolutely right. The facts are not right in that kid's death. I seriously doubt a 3" mag 12 gauge with 7 1/2 shot could injure anyone at fifty yards. A 410 using that size shot would be incapable of causing ANY injury at that distance. And, yes, a .410 slug is a barely passable big game round at very close range. But this thread is about bird hunting with it as a SHOTgun. Apples and oranges.

When I was a kid a jerk duckhunter shot at my lab with 12 gauge waterfowl loads. He was about 60 yards away. Didn't penetrate her hide and I didn't even hear her yipe (but she did have her mouth full at the time). I saw the shot pattern cover her on the water. And it was lead shot. Long before anyone ever heard of steel shot. I don't know if a load of #2 shot from my 12 ga 3" in that guy's direction caused him any significant injury but he sure moved outa there without any difficulty. And he looked fine when I saw him in school Monday morning although I only got a fleeting glimpse before he was moving out of my sight again. Again, I'm sorry but something just isn't right with that 410 story. Only makes it sadder to deal with. Sounds like someone was trying to make this a hail mary freak thunderbolt when it really wasn't. It's called mitigating the damages. But probably at the expense of the bereaved. Or for their benefit? Sorry, but I think there's something more to this story. I don't doubt the boy was killed with a shotgun and maybe it was a 410. But not at that range.

How did we get to the possibility of this poster using lead shot in his .410 to duck hunt with? It still would be inappropriate for normal duck hunting situations unless he described some abnormal situations, but it apearred to be in recent years, and he had to be using steel. You can be guaranteed that when mdpaulus jumps in on a discussion it gets radically distorted, and far from the truth.

md...Politics has a lot to do with your reaction to me not showing compassion for someone's loved on being killed. Liberals make those stupid, emotional retorts, not conservatives. The death has long been over, and I didn't bring it up again. What was brought up was a false report as to how it happened IMO...killed with a .410 with bird shot at 50 yds. Facts always get in the way of you liberals.

jtoc24 sayfu is right as far as the shot is the exact same it is all based on pellet count difference in the guages, and no doubt the 12 gauge patterns better and has longer killing ranges. However the .410 is a fine choice if you know its limits. As far as unsporting, unethical, etc, if it was no state would have it legal under laws especially when hunting federal birds. However if you are taking longer shots take sayfu's advice as the 12 or 20 is much better options. .410 with steel the limit is about 25 yards but that 5-15 yards it is great. I personally don't use one but the youth I take out do and seen them kill ducks. Just know the ammo, weapon, choke, pattern, etc before abusing the gun like most hunters do. Like sAYFU SAID BEFORE MOST PEOPLE DO IT TO SHOW off but I have seen from experience like ducks that land 5 yards away the .410 is a great choice for youth just have to pick shots and know the gun is not preforming well after that 20 yard mark.

Many .410 are single shots to begin with so one shot is all these kids get and at 15 yards it is more than enough to kill a bird. Sure a pump or over under by that second shot birds can compltley get out of range quick but that does not mean the first shot cannot be deadly. P.S. if you cannot call or decoy ducks in to .410 range (5-15 yards) than maybe you should practace your calling or decoy set better, cuz I know here it is nothing to pull them birds into that range. I am not them best caller but pride myself on decoy set up and managing land the ducks can't resist and the payoff is great for the youth I take out.

You are dumb, do you know how to read. I said the youth I take out. If you think I turn some 12 year old lose with a shotgun you are dumb. No responsible person does that. We take kids out and call for them also we call shot when the duck are landing in the decoys for the easiest shots, I feel sorry if you have kids cuz there is nothing more I love than my kids begging me to take them out hunting and mounting their first several ducks they killed with .410's. If it is so irresponsible than go to your state and lobby the gfp or dnr and get them to change the law, they will laugh if your face and go the other way. It comes down to gun limtis and knowing them. Maybe you just don't know hoe to hunt waterfowl and thats your problem. But just cuz you cant get ducks to 5-15 yards does not mean others can't.

I know exactly what a .410 is, and I know exactly what a guy that decides to hunt ducks with a .410 ga. shotgun is as well. And I know the person is a young person because an older person would hopefully have more sense. They kill over 1,000 lb steers with a .22 cal. gun as well. Your u-tube proves nothing.

P.S. that guy in the video is at least 50 so clearly older people use them still.

In my opinion, anytime someone has to resort to name calling they have no argument. And that apparently applies to almost everyone on this thread. And there's nothing ethical about duck hunting with a .410. It's a great snake gun, and even a good gun for kids to dove hunt or squirrel hunt with. But for everything else, get the kids a 20 gauge and teach the kids to hunt the ethical way and put down all game as quickly as possible. If their shoulder is sore the next day, tell em good job. And the argument that a .410 will kill them is void. A well placed shot from a slingshot will too.

jtoc. Steel compared to lead is about a 2 shot size difference. So shooting 3/8 oz. of size #6 steel is like shooting ducks with size # 8 lead.
I doubt those loads were made for waterfowl. You'd make a better match shooting doves at close ranges.

Agree, but this guy sticks with the steel shot in a .410 for waterfowl. I'm glad I don't have to use steel for anything else, but in my waterfowl `12 ga. I have some nice guns, and 20 ga. as well, I'm glad I don't have to run steel through them. And the other thing on uplands. When I down a bird with lead, and virtually never find the bird torn up with lead....steel penetrates bigtime right throgh the meat.

I asked a gun manager yesterday about this guy using a .410 with steel shot for waterfowl hunting. The guy said "Why?" " Why not buy a 20 ga. if he wants a lighter gun, and have a gun that applies to what he is using it for?" Quite a difference between a 20 ga. and a 65 ga. I've supported the notion that everyone should have to take a rigid exam to be able to get a hunting license, and hunt. It would eliminate guys like this guy.

I lived in Western, WA..sure glad I moved. Too many liberals, and why you have that foolish regulation. But good to see you moved up to a 20 ga.

Good thinkin 357..You pass the test.; You can get a license.

Good post Ontario. And you have a habit of making good posts.

Not true turkey....Your use of the word "power" is incorrect. A particular sized shot going at "X" speed cares not whether it comes out of a `12 ga barrel, or a .410 ga barrel, it will produce the same amount of energy which ever barrel it comes out of, and the speed it exits is about the same. It is strictly the amount of pellets in the pattern. And for geese? Irresponsible to even take the .410 out into the goose field.

Hi...

Yes, I've taken lots of small game with a .22/.410 over/under. The .410 has taken many rabbits, partridges, pheasants...and was excellent for puddle-jumping wood ducks.

The .22 of course, was for squirrels.

The guy that hunted the geese with a 28 ga. was not a sportsman, he was an egocentric dude. And there is a HUGE difference between shooting a lesser Canadian goose, and a Greater Canadian Goose. A Greater Canadian Goose can be 3 times bigger than a lesser that can be just slightly larger than a Greenhead Mallard.

The bigger the bird, the greater the need to concentrate on the head as your target, not the body. Ducks and geese...even pheasants can absorb a lot of body punishment (maybe to die later); not so with their heads. SHOOT 'em IN THE HEAD!!!!