mdpaulous,

You must also believe in Unicorns, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus the Easter Bunny and that the state of Islam engenders good will towards the United States. That marketing mush might sound good fresh off the page but in the real world that ain't the way it works.

My wife happens to be in the hunting/shooting/ammo trade. On her desk at any one time you will find 2-3 boxes of returned ammo and recall notices for out of spec ammo from Federal (ATK), Winchester, Remington and Hornady. All the premium companies make and sell a certain amount of junk, it is called price point ammo.

Plain and simple they make what they can sell. If someone wants to feed a .410 slugs they will make them and gladly tell you to sally forth and slay animals or even zombies if you wish.

I realize that you have probably killed a few deer at close range with that .410 and that is all well and good. If all you have is a hammer pretty soon the whole world begins to look like a nail. All we have been trying to tell you is there are better tools for the job.

Son, work with me here. The point is that there are LOTS of things that sell, based upon people's willingness to open their wallet and NOT always on performance or value. Think Chia pet and Barak Obama.

Having take a grand total of one deer with a shotgun, I'm hardly an expert but the .410 just seems awfully anemic to me and Federal's ballistics charts seem to bear that out. (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/slug.aspx?d=144)
According to Federal's site a 109 grain .410 slug is doing 1,337 fps at 50 yards with an energy of 432 foot #. A 125 grain .357 magnum is doing 1,240 fps at 50 yards and providing 427 foot pounds of energy. I have to wonder, if we'd hardly consider a 125 gr. loaded .357 magnum adequate for medium big game at 50 yards, why would we consider a .410 slug of similiar ballistics to be suitable?

I have some penile enlargement pills to sell you. Guaranteed to work or they could not be sold, right?

I know some people do it, but it's marginal at all but very short range in my opinion. By short range i mean archery distance. I doesn't have "knock-down power".

Sure it would kill a deer but why would you want to use it. It's effectiveness is very limited. The 20 ga is better and the 12 ga is, IMO, ideal.

.410 Slug a deer killing machine? The best .410 slug generates about 700 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Most states require a cartridge to generate a minimum of 1000 foot pounds to be legal for deer. No doubt many deer have been killed by .410 slugs but they are far from ideal. The 20 gauge slug would be much better.

When I was about 8 or 9 years old I shot a big Boar Coon out of a pecan tree with a Peters .410 slug on the family farm. The coon was only ablut 20 feet off the ground and the shot was probably no more than 30 feet or about 10 yards. It killed the coon but the slug did not penetrate the hide on the offside. Not my idea of a deer load.

Longhunter,

Are you related to "Snafu" who posts here regularly? Must be, becasue in most jurisdictions that I am familiar with, a .410 bore shotgun is not legal for deer. But you can shoot them with your Gamo air rifle and I could give a rip.

BTW, those who know it all are usually irritated by those who think they know it all.

Ok, deal me in. I know I've told this before but it bears repeating here. Fellow of my acquaintence was expounding on the virtures of a Marlin .357 magnum rifle as a deer round, "killed one at a dead run with it last year". I asked where he hit it and it was in the neck. I asked if a .22 magnum wouldn't have been just as effective and tried to explain the 1000 ft. # of energy at 100 yards rule of thumb for taking whitetailed deer. He didn't really care what I thought, he was going to still use it. Being the smart alec I can be, I told him it would help him refine his blood trailing skills. Don't we owe it to the game to use the most effective weapon we have available to us? And no, I don't own a .458 Lott or .460 Weatherby, not too many cape buffalo in eastern WV, my tastes run between a .257 Roberts and a .338-06 A-Square. By the way, I do however have a .410 barrel for my Contender, it's great for squirrels, rabbits, and snakes. What does that tell ya?

Longhunter thought it was a Bud Light moment but is only now looking at the can he opened...

LH, curiosity on my part, is the .410 all you have?

Ooops "will". I did learn that in grade school....fingers just don't always cooperate.

How about posting a photo of that 164 incher and your trusty .410 cradled in the antlers?

We have some Old Boys Called the "FourTenners" That's all they use for every thing from Ducks,small Game to Deer, they all use Brenneke Magnum Silver Slugs in there 410 Bore guns in every type of 410 bore Gun made, these Boys have the Largest collation of 410
Singleshot,O/Us,SxS,Pumps,Lever,Autos.

There you go. I was just waiting for the know it alls to come out. Did the raccoon die and really if something bigger had hit it would it be any deader? Do you mean that the .410 slug bounces off of them and that the deer that we have now a days are much tougher (ie slug proof) than they were in the past? What would you reccomend then a .460 Weatherby, .458 Lott? Really, would like to learn from your infinite amount of wisdom on this subject. I have also shot a few deer with a 12 gauge 21/2 Lightfield and guess what? On one buck that was chest shot it did not exit out the other side. Now tell me in all honesty that you would assume from that incident that the 12 gauge is too light for deer too. You are correct about one thing. The .410 is not that impressive on paper but out in the field (where it actually counts) it has worked pretty well. I guess my actual field experience on this subject doesn't really mean anything correct?

ps Neither Longhunter and I are saying it is better than anyother caliber for deer, we are saying it works. And also it depends how you hunt it has much less recoil or mine does anyways so when hunting thick timber where 50 yard max shots are why not take a gun with little recoil? If I have to take longer shots yes I take 20 or 12 to the blind.

Well, son it seems like you really have your panties in a bunch. As far as handling something bigger is concerned, I played in the Big Ten and was a super heavyweight boxer so I am not afraid of being bruised. You are barking up the wrong tree if you are trying to impress anyone with your machismo.

I think my opinion is certainly as valuable as yours and as far as no one giving a *#$@ about my opinion I don't believe that this blog is yours and I don't know why you are egotistical enough to speak for everyone else.

I enjoy these types of blogs and while I don't agree with you, I will try to respect your opinion. Personal attacks are not what this is about so I would suggest to agree to disagree.

Welcome aboard! How do you quantify effectiveness? If something dies quickly after being hit in a vital area than I would agree it did its job. The .410 was tested here before it was made legal and it was determined to be effective. I did have some intial doubts about it but not anymore. As far as the 1,000 lbs of energy used to kill a deer I presume that is a rule of thumb. Not to sound like a smart alec but if the cartridge had 900 lbs of energy left does that mean that it would not be effective? The .410 is legal but also remember we are not making the canyon shots like you are able to do in your home state. Our shots here in the Midwest are much closer. No, I don't advocate .22 or air rifles for deer but whatever we bring that is legal and brings us some game is what we should use. Geez, what a can of worms this is!

Pig Hunter I do think that you are correct that it was indeed Colonel Whelen who initiated the 1,000 lbs of energy principle. I do disagree that head shots are not necessary for the .410 and the deer that were shot were all taken in the lung area behind the shoulder. For what it is worth, and not getting into any graphic detail, there was a great deal of internal damage. Seriously, why would I use a 20 guage when a 12 gauge is more effective than that? Or a 10 guage? If a .338 is more effective than a 30-06 than why wouldn't we use a .338 on everything? If something dies when you shoot it,and dies quickly and humanely I would have to say that it is effective.

My youngest brother once killed a doe by shooting it with .22 shorts from a single-shot kids rifle but that doesn't prove it's the best round either. My other brother uses a .338 magnum for deer and they go feet up on impact. The reason I mentioned the 20 gauge is for reduced recoil compared to a similar weighted 12 gauge. By all means, use a 12 gauge since you are a strong man. Every animal I've shot with twelve gauge slugs didn't have enough meat and bone to contain the projectile. The same goes for those I've killed with the .45-70. My preference is for an exit hole for increased blood loss. To each their own.

007 No, it is not all that I have and I actually own several slug guns and all of the rest of them are in 12 gauge. I have shot deer with them too and they work great. I like the .410 primarily because it comes in a slick, lever action and you can't find one in any other gauge besides a .410. I did some research on it's capabilities from other sites and wanted to give it a try. No, I never stated that it was the best round for deer. I spent a lot of pre-season time shooting it and getting to know it. The groups that I shot at 50 yards were the best that I could get out of any of my shotguns. I picked my shots carefully but I seriously would have done this with any gun that I own. A good quality scope does not hurt either. Certainly, this is not for everyone and that's more than fine. I would not pursue larger and tougher animals with it and my 12 gauges get the nod when the range gets a bit longer. However, knowing the capabilities of what we shoot is I feel, important regardless.

007 on that federal sight they say the use for the slug is medium game such as deer. To me it is funny that everyone thinks you can't or its not ethical yet the elite ammo producers make .410 slugs for deer. Huh makes me wonder why they do that? Because their is a market for them? Very doubtful since most people do not use them. But there are some of us who do and they work great.

I cannot vouch for the .223 on deer although those persons who are involved in culling operations use it quite a bit. I don't personally have any field experience with it. I believe that there are other factors involved in deer hunting besides calibre which include distance, shot placement, type of ammo ect. There are always better calibres to use and if they made a lever action 20 gauge I would probably be using it. However, several years ago, (yeah, I am probably older than you think) the 20 gauge itself was thought to be too small for deer hunting. There has been many significant advances in slug design in that period of time that changed many peoples minds.

To answer the original question I would have to say yes, you can kill a deer ethically with a .410. As far as the other part of the question was concerned I would say no. I know that there are certain cartridges that provide knock down power for game animals but I am not certain how this applies to deer hunting. It seems though, that certain, high velocity rifle cartridges kill deer quicker than some of the more powerfull ones who would have more knock down power. I believe that there is a formula out there somewhere for this. Anyway, there is good website called "Dedicated to smallbore shotguns" which is pretty interesting. To each his own.

i wouldn't do it try a 20 or 12 gauge.

WAM Oh, I am sorry. I forgot that you were the ultimate authority on firearms. To say that I am not concerned with the game that I hunt is slanderous and frankly I had expected a bit more from you. Did you forget about the legal in this state part? One of my friends sons shot 2 deer with a .410 and since they apprently did not read they were not supposed to die did.
As far as getting youngsters involved in hunting is concerned I think that they will probably kill more deer when they are not flinching and are not afraid of what they are shooting. If it is an accurate .410 I am fine with that. Besides if more of them are not hunting we will not have anything to argue about.

007 I understand economics but a company like Federal is not going to risk putting a product on the shelf that gets bad reviews or does not work for the reasons I explained above.

So basically you are calling federal out? Wow thats like saying Browning overunders are S***. Federal and other elite manufactures will not make something that does not work and proven to work hence why all ammunition from manufactures like federal, hornady, and wichester are all tested. Also people would not buy them at all if they didn't work which in turn they would not make them.