Deer Hunting
Guys, have any of you tried the Barnes TSX bullet? I am trying different rounds through a new rifle (270 WSM) and would like to hear some input on how this bullet performs on deer before I buy a box. Are they known for damaging a lot of meat, or are they a good, controlled expansion type round? Thanks in advance for any input.
I shoot the 168 grain TSX out of my .308 Win. and it shoots very well (Under 1/2 MOA). They perform very well on game, I've taken around 5 elk with them and 2 deer and have never had to shoot them again. As far as destroying meat, I don't feel the damage is excessive, however, do expect to loose some around the entrance and exit wounds (you'll have both with a Barne's, trust me). I really like the Barne's terminal performance and accuracy, but the groves cut into the bullet accompanied by they shallow boattails significantly lowers their ballistc coefficients, which makes them a poor choice for long range hunting. They have a minimum expansion velocity of 1800 fps so as long as they impact the animal at or above this velocity they will get the job done.
Thanks for the input. Where I hunt in the south, 300 yards is about the farthest shots that we are presented with. It sounds like an excellent round for whitetails out to 300. Going to buy a box and see how the new gun likes them.
You're welcome, I'm sure they'll work very well for whitetails. Best of luck to you.
I've worked up a half dozen loads with Barnes Tipped TSX, 180 grains for 300winmag but haven't been out to the range to see what they will do yet.
However, when I was researching what premium bullet I would be trying this year the internet forums ran about 20:1 in favor of the TSX.
My goal is to find the best case, bullet, powder combination to turn this particular rifle into an MOA weapon. So far, the tightest group has been 1.5 MOA -- up to 4 inch groups...
I was having trouble finding a great bullet that shot well in my '06 until I bought a box of Federal Premium 165 grain TSX. Rifle shoots cloverleafs with them and gets the job done on the large bodied mule deer I have shot with them. I am not saying to run out and buy Federal factory loads, but factory or handload, you can't beat the Barnes Tsx or TTSX! Folks will tell you that this bullet or that bullet is better, yada yada, etc. There may be some bullets just as good, but none better sez me! FWIW
Guys, I bought a box of the Federal Premium Barnes TSX for my 270 WSM based on your feedback. I looked at the TSX bullet next to a 270 WSM core lokt and nosler partition, and noticed that the TSX was longer than the other two. I chambered one and noticed that my bolt was harder to close with the TSX. I like the idea of the TSX bullet being closer to the rifling and having less jump before it hits the lands inside the barrel, but I am curious if any of you have noticed your bolt being harder to close with the TSX. Thanks.
I handload so I don't have that problem. However, your encounter with the TSX is not surprising. Being an all copper bullet, to get the bullet to weigh as much as a standard lead cored bullet they must increase the bullets overall length. By doing this, you sacrifice case capacity by seating the bullet to standard length and risk jamming the rifle into the rifling (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) if you seat them out a little longer than standard length, along with risk having your COAL too long to function out of a short action. But, since you bought factory ammo, the seating depth should be to SAMMI specs, so what I would think is the TSX had a more forward ogive location than the other bullets you tried. How did the TSX's shoot for you out of curiosity?
Whoa! The TSX should be about .050" off the lands and probably no closer than .020" to keep pressure down. That should not be happening. Maybe the brass is a bit long and tight on hte shoulder while headspacing off the belt. Try marking a bullet with a magic marker and seat it to see if it is touching the lands and marking the bullet. Might also try that with the shoulder. Maybe the nickel plated brass is a fuzz thicker?
WA Mtnhunter, the brass is identical in length to the brass from a core lokt and federal premium nosler partition. It's just that the barnes bullet protrudes farther past the front end of the brass than the other bullets. I am goung to try the marker deal. Someone also gave me a tip about rubbing some wav on the bullet and seeing if I can see rifling impressions after chambering it.
BigBboy25, I have not shot the tsx yet. I just chambered one to see how they fed, once I noticed the difference in length.
The overall length is not as important as the shape of the bullet ogive and at what point does the bullet diameter equal the diameter of the lands of the rifling. Some like the SST have such a sleek taper from the nose that their diameter does not equal bore diameter until right at the case mouth. SAAMI specs dictate the freebore and leade in front of the case mouth before the rifling. The WSM headspaces off the belt and maybe the shoulder is a little tight and overall length is fine, or your chamber is a little short/tight. I would only be concerned if the bullet is engaging the rifling by force of the bolt. The wax idea sounds good too. Just be sure to remove any residue from the chamber throat before firing.
Got seven loads out to the range today. Most groups were disappointing until the very last. 80.4 grns. of H1000 behind the Barnes TTSX 180 grn bullet. 100 yrds. 4 bullets. 1 flier. 3 bullets cloverleafed into a 5/8" group!!!
Sounds like a good load. I'd start playing around with powder charge +/- .1 grain now and once I got that dialed in I'd play with seating depth +/- .005", but that's just me. You could leave that load right where it is and I'm sure you'd do just fine in the woods.
Sorry, late to this. TSX is overkill for deer, but I use them anyway, just so accurate in my guns. Besides, don't need another load for larger game.
Like WAM said, Barnes does recommend them seating further off the rifling. If they are loading hard then just make sure the bullet is not impacting the rifling or being driven down into the case. Both will increase pressure. Never tried the wax - interesting. Just plain black marker on the bullet should work or just measure the OAL before an after.
Went to our local outdoor range on Saturday. I was about to load one of the TSX's to shoot and noticed the bullet was loose in the brass. This was a Federal Premium load, 130 grain TSX is 270 WSM. I had two boxes of the shells, and went through them. 9 out of 20 were loose in the first box, and 3 out of 20 in the other. I could literally pull on the bullets and move them around 1/8" and then push them back in. I didn't shoot any of them. I shot a few out of the box of the Federal Premium nosler partition shells I had, and my gun did not group them well. Disappointing. I shot 2 four shot groups at 100 yards with Rem core lokts, and could cover them with a quarter. I guess the bullet searching for this rifle is over.
Just got back from RMEF Convention in Reno so am late on this issue.
Remember the rifle will tell you what it likes to shoot. Having made that statement, I have taken a couple of hundred animals with the Triple Shock since they have come out. I don't use anything else as long as the rifle will shoot them accurately. Calibers from 30 06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H & H, 416 Rigby.
They mushroom well, but tend to sail through animals of all sizes. Have found them to be exceedingly accurate in most calibers.
Oh, pay attention to WA Mnthunter, he knows what he is writing about.
I'm late on this too. I shot the old Barnes bullets and quit using them because of inconsistent accuracy. Then when Barnes made the TSX with the grooves, they became my most accurate bullet in the .30 and .375 calibers and among the best in the .25 caliber. Now I consider them to be the best hunting bullet available. However, their cost prevents me from using them as much as I would like. I consider them to be overkill for deer since many other less expensive bullets kill them just as dead. They do allow you to step down a size in bullet for the same penetration though and that can add speed to your hunting bullets if you need it. For example, I would feel comfortable using 90 grain TSX bullets in my 25-06 for deer although I do currently use 100 grains for them. Try them and I am sure you will like them... like all accurate bullets, you have to test seating depth in your rifle to find the best OAL.
I'm late on this too. I shot the old Barnes bullets and quit using them because of inconsistent accuracy. Then when Barnes made the TSX with the grooves, they became my most accurate bullet in the .30 and .375 calibers and among the best in the .25 caliber. Now I consider them to be the best hunting bullet available. However, their cost prevents me from using them as much as I would like. I consider them to be overkill for deer since many other less expensive bullets kill them just as dead. They do allow you to step down a size in bullet for the same penetration though and that can add speed to your hunting bullets if you need it. For example, I would feel comfortable using 90 grain TSX bullets in my 25-06 for deer although I do currently use 100 grains for them. Try them and I am sure you will like them... like all accurate bullets, you have to test seating depth in your rifle to find the best OAL.
Thanks, Happy Myles.
Bet you had fun at Elk Camp. I was wanting to go, but work got in the way. Our chapter banquet is June 12th. Maybe next year.
Best regards,
WMH
Can I venture and ask—with all the arguments about .224 calibers for deer, will Barnes triple-X give this caliber the "okay" for small deer/antelope inside 100 yards? (here we go).
-Pablo
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I shoot the 168 grain TSX out of my .308 Win. and it shoots very well (Under 1/2 MOA). They perform very well on game, I've taken around 5 elk with them and 2 deer and have never had to shoot them again. As far as destroying meat, I don't feel the damage is excessive, however, do expect to loose some around the entrance and exit wounds (you'll have both with a Barne's, trust me). I really like the Barne's terminal performance and accuracy, but the groves cut into the bullet accompanied by they shallow boattails significantly lowers their ballistc coefficients, which makes them a poor choice for long range hunting. They have a minimum expansion velocity of 1800 fps so as long as they impact the animal at or above this velocity they will get the job done.
Whoa! The TSX should be about .050" off the lands and probably no closer than .020" to keep pressure down. That should not be happening. Maybe the brass is a bit long and tight on hte shoulder while headspacing off the belt. Try marking a bullet with a magic marker and seat it to see if it is touching the lands and marking the bullet. Might also try that with the shoulder. Maybe the nickel plated brass is a fuzz thicker?
Thanks for the input. Where I hunt in the south, 300 yards is about the farthest shots that we are presented with. It sounds like an excellent round for whitetails out to 300. Going to buy a box and see how the new gun likes them.
You're welcome, I'm sure they'll work very well for whitetails. Best of luck to you.
I've worked up a half dozen loads with Barnes Tipped TSX, 180 grains for 300winmag but haven't been out to the range to see what they will do yet.
However, when I was researching what premium bullet I would be trying this year the internet forums ran about 20:1 in favor of the TSX.
My goal is to find the best case, bullet, powder combination to turn this particular rifle into an MOA weapon. So far, the tightest group has been 1.5 MOA -- up to 4 inch groups...
I was having trouble finding a great bullet that shot well in my '06 until I bought a box of Federal Premium 165 grain TSX. Rifle shoots cloverleafs with them and gets the job done on the large bodied mule deer I have shot with them. I am not saying to run out and buy Federal factory loads, but factory or handload, you can't beat the Barnes Tsx or TTSX! Folks will tell you that this bullet or that bullet is better, yada yada, etc. There may be some bullets just as good, but none better sez me! FWIW
Guys, I bought a box of the Federal Premium Barnes TSX for my 270 WSM based on your feedback. I looked at the TSX bullet next to a 270 WSM core lokt and nosler partition, and noticed that the TSX was longer than the other two. I chambered one and noticed that my bolt was harder to close with the TSX. I like the idea of the TSX bullet being closer to the rifling and having less jump before it hits the lands inside the barrel, but I am curious if any of you have noticed your bolt being harder to close with the TSX. Thanks.
I handload so I don't have that problem. However, your encounter with the TSX is not surprising. Being an all copper bullet, to get the bullet to weigh as much as a standard lead cored bullet they must increase the bullets overall length. By doing this, you sacrifice case capacity by seating the bullet to standard length and risk jamming the rifle into the rifling (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) if you seat them out a little longer than standard length, along with risk having your COAL too long to function out of a short action. But, since you bought factory ammo, the seating depth should be to SAMMI specs, so what I would think is the TSX had a more forward ogive location than the other bullets you tried. How did the TSX's shoot for you out of curiosity?
WA Mtnhunter, the brass is identical in length to the brass from a core lokt and federal premium nosler partition. It's just that the barnes bullet protrudes farther past the front end of the brass than the other bullets. I am goung to try the marker deal. Someone also gave me a tip about rubbing some wav on the bullet and seeing if I can see rifling impressions after chambering it.
BigBboy25, I have not shot the tsx yet. I just chambered one to see how they fed, once I noticed the difference in length.
The overall length is not as important as the shape of the bullet ogive and at what point does the bullet diameter equal the diameter of the lands of the rifling. Some like the SST have such a sleek taper from the nose that their diameter does not equal bore diameter until right at the case mouth. SAAMI specs dictate the freebore and leade in front of the case mouth before the rifling. The WSM headspaces off the belt and maybe the shoulder is a little tight and overall length is fine, or your chamber is a little short/tight. I would only be concerned if the bullet is engaging the rifling by force of the bolt. The wax idea sounds good too. Just be sure to remove any residue from the chamber throat before firing.
Got seven loads out to the range today. Most groups were disappointing until the very last. 80.4 grns. of H1000 behind the Barnes TTSX 180 grn bullet. 100 yrds. 4 bullets. 1 flier. 3 bullets cloverleafed into a 5/8" group!!!
Sounds like a good load. I'd start playing around with powder charge +/- .1 grain now and once I got that dialed in I'd play with seating depth +/- .005", but that's just me. You could leave that load right where it is and I'm sure you'd do just fine in the woods.
Sorry, late to this. TSX is overkill for deer, but I use them anyway, just so accurate in my guns. Besides, don't need another load for larger game.
Like WAM said, Barnes does recommend them seating further off the rifling. If they are loading hard then just make sure the bullet is not impacting the rifling or being driven down into the case. Both will increase pressure. Never tried the wax - interesting. Just plain black marker on the bullet should work or just measure the OAL before an after.
Went to our local outdoor range on Saturday. I was about to load one of the TSX's to shoot and noticed the bullet was loose in the brass. This was a Federal Premium load, 130 grain TSX is 270 WSM. I had two boxes of the shells, and went through them. 9 out of 20 were loose in the first box, and 3 out of 20 in the other. I could literally pull on the bullets and move them around 1/8" and then push them back in. I didn't shoot any of them. I shot a few out of the box of the Federal Premium nosler partition shells I had, and my gun did not group them well. Disappointing. I shot 2 four shot groups at 100 yards with Rem core lokts, and could cover them with a quarter. I guess the bullet searching for this rifle is over.
Just got back from RMEF Convention in Reno so am late on this issue.
Remember the rifle will tell you what it likes to shoot. Having made that statement, I have taken a couple of hundred animals with the Triple Shock since they have come out. I don't use anything else as long as the rifle will shoot them accurately. Calibers from 30 06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 375 H & H, 416 Rigby.
They mushroom well, but tend to sail through animals of all sizes. Have found them to be exceedingly accurate in most calibers.
Oh, pay attention to WA Mnthunter, he knows what he is writing about.
I'm late on this too. I shot the old Barnes bullets and quit using them because of inconsistent accuracy. Then when Barnes made the TSX with the grooves, they became my most accurate bullet in the .30 and .375 calibers and among the best in the .25 caliber. Now I consider them to be the best hunting bullet available. However, their cost prevents me from using them as much as I would like. I consider them to be overkill for deer since many other less expensive bullets kill them just as dead. They do allow you to step down a size in bullet for the same penetration though and that can add speed to your hunting bullets if you need it. For example, I would feel comfortable using 90 grain TSX bullets in my 25-06 for deer although I do currently use 100 grains for them. Try them and I am sure you will like them... like all accurate bullets, you have to test seating depth in your rifle to find the best OAL.
I'm late on this too. I shot the old Barnes bullets and quit using them because of inconsistent accuracy. Then when Barnes made the TSX with the grooves, they became my most accurate bullet in the .30 and .375 calibers and among the best in the .25 caliber. Now I consider them to be the best hunting bullet available. However, their cost prevents me from using them as much as I would like. I consider them to be overkill for deer since many other less expensive bullets kill them just as dead. They do allow you to step down a size in bullet for the same penetration though and that can add speed to your hunting bullets if you need it. For example, I would feel comfortable using 90 grain TSX bullets in my 25-06 for deer although I do currently use 100 grains for them. Try them and I am sure you will like them... like all accurate bullets, you have to test seating depth in your rifle to find the best OAL.
Thanks, Happy Myles.
Bet you had fun at Elk Camp. I was wanting to go, but work got in the way. Our chapter banquet is June 12th. Maybe next year.
Best regards,
WMH
Can I venture and ask—with all the arguments about .224 calibers for deer, will Barnes triple-X give this caliber the "okay" for small deer/antelope inside 100 yards? (here we go).
-Pablo
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