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July 29, 2008

Record Cutthroat

By Tim Romano & Kirk Deeter

Cutthroat_2

Congratulations to Marvin Green of Porterville, California, who caught this pending IGFA world record cutthroat trout (11 pounds, 1 ounce) on a woolly bugger at Nevada's Pyramid Lake. Green caught the fish on April 21. Pyramid Lake is responsible for six of seven tippet class world records for cutthroat trout.

A lot like Lake Diefenbaker in Saskatchewan, where Adam and Sean Konrad have redefined IGFA benchmarks on rainbow trout, including this 43.6-pound all-tackle record caught last June.

Rainbow

I don't want to be the guy who pees in the Cheerios (but I will). Don't you think there's something out-of-whack by counting "world records" when they're caught out of a "hog pen" body of water? The Diefenbaker fish are triploid mutants that escaped from a fish farm, for example. Kinda like "Hogzilla," you know the pen raised piggie that became an urban legend when someone shot it, just outside the fence. You can draw your own conclusions about Pyramid Lake. In no way am I questioning the skill or motives of the anglers. If I had a chance at hooking fish like these, I'd take it. And then call it what it is. A really big fish.

But not a world record. Michael Phelps sets world records. Asafa Powell and Usain Bolt set world records. Ben Johnson once set world records, but they were negated when everyone clued in on the fact that he was a doper. I say fish that grow up in the hog pen waters, from trout-chomping bass in the lakes in Southern California (this is where the next world record bass will be caught), to fish farm escapees in a Canadian reservoir, to hand-fed carp in Farmer Jones' pond are all dopers also.

And those people who want to count them as world records... well, they're just dopes.

Deeter

from Randall Williams wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

Dear Alex Foster,You present a poorly reasoned argument. While the lake may be a world-class fishery and also contain native rainbows, the genetic make-up of the trout in question conclusively proves that it was farm-raised and bred to its impressive (and highly unnatural) size. Furthermore, your grammar, spelling, and facundity are embarrassing. I would have mistaken this for the garbled diatribe of a thirteen year old if I hadn't seen the impressive list of credentials that you were kind enough to include at the bottom of your comment. For the sake of myself and others, please refrain from posting another word on this blog.SincerelyRandall Williams

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Visitor wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

Congrats Alex D Foster...... you Canuck Douche Bag. By the way it called STOCKED not "stalked" !!!!!!!! You should stick to hockey.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Alex Foster wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

for your info Diefenbaker lake is 113 miles long over 500 miles of shore line has depths of 300 ft and has natural rainbows in it as well as some that escaped, it has had Walleye that were captured for milking in the 20 to 25lb range , it has sturgeon in the 100lb classpike to over 40.lb lake white fish over 14 lbs burbot that were weighed to 25lbs yeah that's right 25lbs sauger to 8 lbs and on and on Al Linder him self called the lake "the sleeping giant" it produces exteramly large fish so who are you to say that this lake and this fish shouldn't be recognized as a world record fish and fishery ? you Americans make me sick! you think the fish in your so called great lakes are acceptable as world record fish yet there all stalked like most of your fishing your country pond bass are considered for records how can you tell me that fish was form the pen ? we have native rainbows in that lake,, and like you have ever seen a wild trout that size to compare it too get a life. That's why you guys fly up here to hunt and fish you don't hear any crap coming out of your mouth when "you" take home your Trophy's from Saskatchewan Typical American thinking. Alex D Foster i hold two World records a Canadian record freshwater fishing hall of fame and over 140 master angler walleye.

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from brad wrote 5 years 29 weeks ago

For all your info. I have studied trout species in a hatchery for about 10 years now.All hatchery fish (which make up most of our US fisheries anymore) are genetically altered in some way. But this altering usually causes smaller sizes not larger. This has come from almost a hundred years of selective breeding in which there is no 'the strongest survive' factor.I agree that the triploid rainbow shoudn't be considered for the record. That is the risk of having these farms in systems with native fish. But the cutty is a different story. If you know what goes into makin a trout triploid then you know what I'm talking about.And yes, the lahontan cutthroat that originated in pyramid are extinct. But the cutthroat trout from the other lake are very close genetically. Many native cutthroat streams and lakes in Montana maintain the 'native cuttroat status' even when most of these waters do not contain original(3,000 yr old)alleles.On the other side. If we are not going to count anything unnatural as records. Then we shouldn't count anything out of artificial water ways such as reservoirs, irragation canals, marinas, and such. Many of MT state records are out of reservoirs. Go figure. Just saying.By the way. Many states in the NW are considering planting tripoids in many waters. Including MT.

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from Tyler P wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

It's all preposterous hype designed to get more people to fish those perspective waters. I agree wholeheartedly on the doping standards in most cases. Yet when a genetically enhanced steelhead of the IDAHO B Runs sneaks up the Deschutes river for a peek and somebody sticks it on a purpil peril....The tip pool increases mightily handsome....

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Woodstock wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Yep, Deeter, I completely agree (remember our exchange from a year ago?).Expanding on your Track & Field analogy, I'd like to point out that what makes fish records meaningful are the relative rarity of the captured quarry. That's why we hold them in such regard. When we artificially - and even more appropriate to this topic - *deliberately* mess with the conditions that produce those rare specimens, then the meaningfulness of the records float away like PMD in a spring creek..Also like you, I don't want to be critical of the anglers that pursue these fish (some of the biggest rainbow trout I've ever caught were escapees from a trout farm in southern Chile - I caught them with glee in a gorgeous river). But nope, genetically altered fish that spent the first several years of their life eating pellets in a pen don't belong in record books.

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from ninja wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Don't forget Carl Lewis.

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from Alex Pernice the fly rod winner wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Corn!

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from joey wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

ethan,yes, those fish are lahontan. but read carefully in the link i posted. this was confirmed to me years ago when i was living and fishing in california, in waters that were stocked with lahontans. the lahontans in pyramid are not the original strain, but from summit lake in nevada, which don't grow anywhere near the size of the original lahontan's that pyramid was famous for, which grew to sizes of 30-40 pounds.so, dopers or not, they are all non-native transplants.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ethan wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Joey~Lahontan cutthroats were indeed native to Pyramid Lake, and were indeed technically extinct in the watershed by the middle of the last century. But since then, there have been (as you can see) moderately successful efforts at restocking Lahontans from other watersheds into the Pyramid Lake system. As we can all see, that is a purebred Lahontan Cutthroat, with nary a trace of Rainbow in him, and of wild origins at that. Awesome fish. Pure Awesome.And Deeter, that thing from Canuckville, well...I agree...its like Barry Bonds still being counted as one of the home run leaders. But the Cutt is a totally different thing...that's like Manny Ramirez or A-Rod (who so far as we know are not dopers).

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from joey wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

native pyramid lake strain of lahontan cutthroat were extinct by 1943 due to over harvest and STOCKING of rainbow trout (inbreeding and competition).read about it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahontan_cutthroat_trout

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from joey wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

looks more like a record THROAT CUT!!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

World record or not, them are still a couple of big honkin' fish!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from KD wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

You're right on Pyramid being a totally different ballgame.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hoagie wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Not sure I get the connection here. I'm with you on the triploid freaks, but Pyramid Lake is pretty huge, and those cutts are native to the watershed, aren't they? If they're native, and not artificially bloated like that nasty pigfish rainbow from Deifenbaker (sp?), what's not to like?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from tobewan77 wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

at least the cut looks like a real fish.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Cole wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Deet, I completely agree!

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from Visitor wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

Congrats Alex D Foster...... you Canuck Douche Bag. By the way it called STOCKED not "stalked" !!!!!!!! You should stick to hockey.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Randall Williams wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

Dear Alex Foster,You present a poorly reasoned argument. While the lake may be a world-class fishery and also contain native rainbows, the genetic make-up of the trout in question conclusively proves that it was farm-raised and bred to its impressive (and highly unnatural) size. Furthermore, your grammar, spelling, and facundity are embarrassing. I would have mistaken this for the garbled diatribe of a thirteen year old if I hadn't seen the impressive list of credentials that you were kind enough to include at the bottom of your comment. For the sake of myself and others, please refrain from posting another word on this blog.SincerelyRandall Williams

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Alex Foster wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

for your info Diefenbaker lake is 113 miles long over 500 miles of shore line has depths of 300 ft and has natural rainbows in it as well as some that escaped, it has had Walleye that were captured for milking in the 20 to 25lb range , it has sturgeon in the 100lb classpike to over 40.lb lake white fish over 14 lbs burbot that were weighed to 25lbs yeah that's right 25lbs sauger to 8 lbs and on and on Al Linder him self called the lake "the sleeping giant" it produces exteramly large fish so who are you to say that this lake and this fish shouldn't be recognized as a world record fish and fishery ? you Americans make me sick! you think the fish in your so called great lakes are acceptable as world record fish yet there all stalked like most of your fishing your country pond bass are considered for records how can you tell me that fish was form the pen ? we have native rainbows in that lake,, and like you have ever seen a wild trout that size to compare it too get a life. That's why you guys fly up here to hunt and fish you don't hear any crap coming out of your mouth when "you" take home your Trophy's from Saskatchewan Typical American thinking. Alex D Foster i hold two World records a Canadian record freshwater fishing hall of fame and over 140 master angler walleye.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from brad wrote 5 years 29 weeks ago

For all your info. I have studied trout species in a hatchery for about 10 years now.All hatchery fish (which make up most of our US fisheries anymore) are genetically altered in some way. But this altering usually causes smaller sizes not larger. This has come from almost a hundred years of selective breeding in which there is no 'the strongest survive' factor.I agree that the triploid rainbow shoudn't be considered for the record. That is the risk of having these farms in systems with native fish. But the cutty is a different story. If you know what goes into makin a trout triploid then you know what I'm talking about.And yes, the lahontan cutthroat that originated in pyramid are extinct. But the cutthroat trout from the other lake are very close genetically. Many native cutthroat streams and lakes in Montana maintain the 'native cuttroat status' even when most of these waters do not contain original(3,000 yr old)alleles.On the other side. If we are not going to count anything unnatural as records. Then we shouldn't count anything out of artificial water ways such as reservoirs, irragation canals, marinas, and such. Many of MT state records are out of reservoirs. Go figure. Just saying.By the way. Many states in the NW are considering planting tripoids in many waters. Including MT.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tyler P wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

It's all preposterous hype designed to get more people to fish those perspective waters. I agree wholeheartedly on the doping standards in most cases. Yet when a genetically enhanced steelhead of the IDAHO B Runs sneaks up the Deschutes river for a peek and somebody sticks it on a purpil peril....The tip pool increases mightily handsome....

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Woodstock wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Yep, Deeter, I completely agree (remember our exchange from a year ago?).Expanding on your Track & Field analogy, I'd like to point out that what makes fish records meaningful are the relative rarity of the captured quarry. That's why we hold them in such regard. When we artificially - and even more appropriate to this topic - *deliberately* mess with the conditions that produce those rare specimens, then the meaningfulness of the records float away like PMD in a spring creek..Also like you, I don't want to be critical of the anglers that pursue these fish (some of the biggest rainbow trout I've ever caught were escapees from a trout farm in southern Chile - I caught them with glee in a gorgeous river). But nope, genetically altered fish that spent the first several years of their life eating pellets in a pen don't belong in record books.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ninja wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Don't forget Carl Lewis.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Alex Pernice the fly rod winner wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Corn!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from joey wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

ethan,yes, those fish are lahontan. but read carefully in the link i posted. this was confirmed to me years ago when i was living and fishing in california, in waters that were stocked with lahontans. the lahontans in pyramid are not the original strain, but from summit lake in nevada, which don't grow anywhere near the size of the original lahontan's that pyramid was famous for, which grew to sizes of 30-40 pounds.so, dopers or not, they are all non-native transplants.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ethan wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Joey~Lahontan cutthroats were indeed native to Pyramid Lake, and were indeed technically extinct in the watershed by the middle of the last century. But since then, there have been (as you can see) moderately successful efforts at restocking Lahontans from other watersheds into the Pyramid Lake system. As we can all see, that is a purebred Lahontan Cutthroat, with nary a trace of Rainbow in him, and of wild origins at that. Awesome fish. Pure Awesome.And Deeter, that thing from Canuckville, well...I agree...its like Barry Bonds still being counted as one of the home run leaders. But the Cutt is a totally different thing...that's like Manny Ramirez or A-Rod (who so far as we know are not dopers).

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from joey wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

native pyramid lake strain of lahontan cutthroat were extinct by 1943 due to over harvest and STOCKING of rainbow trout (inbreeding and competition).read about it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahontan_cutthroat_trout

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from joey wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

looks more like a record THROAT CUT!!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

World record or not, them are still a couple of big honkin' fish!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from KD wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

You're right on Pyramid being a totally different ballgame.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hoagie wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Not sure I get the connection here. I'm with you on the triploid freaks, but Pyramid Lake is pretty huge, and those cutts are native to the watershed, aren't they? If they're native, and not artificially bloated like that nasty pigfish rainbow from Deifenbaker (sp?), what's not to like?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from tobewan77 wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

at least the cut looks like a real fish.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Cole wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

Deet, I completely agree!

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment