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A Few Kind Words About Mr. Niedner's Cartridge

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August 14, 2007

A Few Kind Words About Mr. Niedner's Cartridge

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

Because of the savage space constraints imposed on me, I was unable to mention it in my July cartridge guide in Field & Stream magazine, but trust me, it is one of the very best deer/antelope cartridges around. What it offers is enough bullet weight (120 or 115 grains), high but not insane velocity (way over 3,000 fps when loaded to its full potential) and light recoil. I use a .25/06 as my beanfield rifle, and see no reason to every change.

George Herron, the great South Carolina knifemaker of whom I have writ here, killed over 150 deer with a heavy-barreled Ruger Number One .25/06. He loaded 90-grain Sierra hollow-points to something like 3,500 fps and took only head shots. He and I differed strongly about that last part, but he was a marksman of the first rank, and never lost an animal as far as I know.

Like the .270, the .25/06 is something of a poor man's magnum. Its muzzle blast will not detach your ears, its flash will not start range fires, and the wounds it makes do not burp and bubble for hours afterward. But 87 years after its birth, it has yet to be surpassed in its particular niche.

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from Visitor wrote 5 years 42 weeks ago

i have an a. uberti new dakota .45 4.75" barrell. can you tell me what it is worth

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from Tom Ogle wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

All you rifle loonies,Anybody know how precise the Greenhill equation is in predicting minimal barrel twist for bullet stablization? My 25-06 shoots 100 gr and 115 gr within 1 MOA but 120 gr bullets don't shoot worth a tinkers damn. My 1:10 twist barrel is marginally adequate for the 100 gr. according to Greenhill equation, thus 115 gr should not shoot well. I think the twist is too slow for the 120 gr. bullet, explaining its poor accuracy. , Some gun writers have stated that for modern rifle cartridges a constant of 180 should be used in the equation instead of the traditional 150. Greenhill was a British artilleryman and came up with the 150 factor empirically working with the slower velocities of artillery, so perhaps the 180 is justified. However, according to the equation, the ratio of bullet length to bullet diameter in calibers is the only determinate--velocity is not in the equation. Obviously, at the extremes of velocity (very high and very low) the Greenhill equation probably would not hold. So, do you guru's have a notion about the relationship between bullet stabilization and velocity? TOgle

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter, good luck on your hunt Sir. Next year and God willing, I’ll be up dar to! No telling what rifle I will be using? Perhaps I’ll buy another 25-06. It’s always duz the trick. That 130 will do you a fine job I know it will. I grew up using that bullet in Arizona.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Thanks, ClayI think I will load some 130's for my .308 for mule deer in Colorado this fall.You are right. You don't need artillery to kill deer. Just have to hit 'em right.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterIt's a soft point. It’s not a fancy bullet; But O’Man they really do work, no joke! Winchester 748 should work great. 53.8 grains will push that pill at 3100fps. I’ve loaded hundreds for friends and thousands for myself using the Hornady 130 for 30-06 & 308 and they love that load better than the heaver bullets. Once you tried them, it’s hard to go back to anything else. Shot a monster hog in Louisiana. That 130 out of my 30-06 dropped it like a ton of bricks with one shot. That load on critters and Mule Deer, WOW! Turns your 308 or 30-06 to shoot like a magnum! You don’t need a bazooka to knock down a deer!Another bullet I really love and works fantastic including Alaska is the Hornady 190 grain soft point boat tail is one of the best and overlooked bullets on the market. I turned a lot of people onto this bullet when I was in Alaska and it’s a really flat shooting bullet. 2837fps out of my 30-06 with 58 grains of IMR4831, Federal 215 primer in a Military case. One inch group at 200 yards! Eat your heart out Range Monkeys!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

ClayI think I will try some Hornady 130 Gr in my .308 Win. Is that a BTSP or SST that you recommend?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

MattIf I was you and deer is the largest game? I would pick the 25-06 hands down. I did everything with it just as good as my 300 Win Mag. Hell on varmints and deer. And one more thing that is being overlooked, even by me, darn! Great for shooting around cattle to! Do not use bullets like Barnes or Partition bullets that will have complete pass thru that would carry around cattle and make sure of what’s beyond your target regardless! I even got complete pass thru with my 22-250, so be careful Matt.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

SilverArrow2 true stories.1. A Colonel Daughter wanted to shoot competition. She wanted to shoot with the Holloman AFB High Power Team. We made her stay with small bore. This was around March of 85. June of 86, she was trying out for the Olympic shooting team at the Whittington Center in Raton New Mexico..2. While in Alaska, I got a call from one of the Squadron Commanders to open the range after hours to sight in his 340 Weatherby Mag. No problem! About the 5 or so round, the inside of the scope detonated. Busted lenses and the cross hairs where like coiled springs. It looked like a Mac Truck drove thru it. 45 minutes later, He had a new scope on it. A Tasco scope with short eye relief. I told him it would not work and He put it on anyway while I got the roll of paper towels out for the inevitable! First round, you guessed it, 3 stitches. With his hunt looking totally doomed, I let hem try my 30-06 with Hornady 190 BTSP @2835fps. Didn’t tell Him what it was, but he loved it. Love at first shot! 3 hours later, I was sighting in a brand new Remington 30-06 for His Sheep hunt the next day. Got his sheep and had a good time! That season also slammed his hunt with grizz, Moose, Caribou and was working on his 3rd Black Bear.Once again, this proves its not the Arrow, It’s the Indian!And how to destroy or save a shooters ability!Big Magnums, limited oneself to short range shots?I wonder?A 25-06 with a Nosler 120 partition works great on Caribou!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Clay writes:Since you’re new to Hunting, I strongly recommend staying clear of the Magnum Rifles, until you get proficient and able to handle the recoil.Can we get an Amen!SA

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from matt wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Thanks for the pointers guys they'r greatly appreciated.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

city folks (Dr. Ralph) just don't get it

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Know whut I mean Vern? Hell Clay do they sell Purity milk where you live or are you just personal friends with Ernest?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

But overall I still lov my 25-06!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterThat 308 Win is no punk at long range Brother!Just got to know how to hold your jaw just right. Know what I saying Vern! By the way, if you reload for that 308 try loading up some Hornady 130 grain. It’s dynamite on deer! Winchester 748 you can scream it out at 3100fps, 30-06 at 3300fps, 300 Win Mag 3500fps and 300 Weatherby 3700fps! Don’t pay any attention about the foot-pound energy, especially at long range. It will nock the biggest Buck *i*k in the dirt! No joke! I cut my teeth on them and know for a fact what they will do! Good Ol’Uncle Joyce W. Hornady did us a fine job, He did! Another excellent bullet that’s overlooked is the Hornady 190 BTSP! Flatter shooting and harder hitting in a 30-06 than a 7mm Rem Mag 175 grain at 1000yds.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

MattSilverArrow brings up a very good point. The 7.62 is not really a bad round. However SilverArrow is right about saving your coins up and get a quality rifle in a cartridge that is relatively available. I don’t know your abilities and what part of the country your in. If you live in the east, Hoarnay just came out with a new round for the 30-30 called the 30-30 WIN 160 GR LEVERevolution. This round makes the 30-30 a good 200 yard rifle. If you live in the west a 25-06 or 270. But if you plan to go Elk or Moose the 30-06 will do you a great job hands down or just want a rifle that will handle anything that comes along. I have personally witnessed a many Moose and Grizz taken with a 30-06 and it’s no punk! Personally I would go for the Remington 700BDL in 30-06. I’ve sighted in hundreds of rifles and it’s by far in my book the most accurate and reliable rifle straight out of the box. But remember, it’s not what someone else’s want; it’s what Matt wants and is comfortable shooting. Since you’re new to Hunting, I strongly recommend staying clear of the Magnum Rifles, until you get proficient and able to handle the recoil.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Clay:I did a bit of long range shooting in my younger days in the Army. A little herd culling....I don't have any good places to shoot nearby. If I did, I would ike to do some long range silhoutte shooting. I have thought about putting together a long 7mm magnum of some flavor. But for now, I 'm going to get a longer lens on my .308 for limited activity.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

MattIf that Moisin Nagant is all that you can fund at the moment it will do the job. If you can hold off, perhaps borrow a rifle for this season and find something in .30-30 or the like you will be better served. Ammo will be more available and lots less expensive hence you can practice more.SA

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from matt wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Im just getting in to deer hunting. But I dont have alot of money to spend on a rifle. I've ben looking at getting a mosin nagant 91/30 chambered in the only cartrige that they were7.62x54. if anyone has input it would be appriceated.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

I don’t know if I want to call it interesting or sad? Individuals buying rifles capable of extreme shooting (past 250 yards). And not training and educating oneself in doing just that. Ok you got this big magnum that’s out performs my rifle and you limit yourself to 100 yards or less?Like I said, The 25-06 lets the novice shooter, shoot like a PRO. Not only this, the 25-06 is for extreme shooters like myself. I can hear the Range Monkeys now!It would be an Honor and a blast to get Mr. David Petzal out to an area like New Mexico to teach him a few tricks and have him join the ranks of the SITNCC Club! There’s nothing special about it. In fact, it’s really nothing more than basic marksmanship.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Ed JI’m sorry Ed, we were using, Sierra GameKing® .338 Diameter 250 grain SPBT. Not only we had jacket separation, I experienced the same with my 25-06 with Sierra Gamekings 117 BTSP also. I shot a Jackrabbit at 300 yds plus and some change in New Mexico and found the bullet lying on top of the sand dune just a few feet past the critter. I was able to flip the core out with my thumbnail. I thought it was just a fluke so I went back to the spot I fired from and repeated it with 5 more rounds and all 5 did the same thing.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterDaveHave you ever considered in taking up long range silhouette shooting?The deal with the two-diameter bullets, must be due to the type of barrel they where using. New one on me!

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

ClayNow you know why Sierra says don't use Matchkings for hunting I tried them too.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Ed J - Thanks for your explanation of two-diameter bullets.Clay C.-Where I got the two-diameter reference was from the "Gun Nut Cartridge Quiz" from Mr. Petzal on this blog/F&S web site. Quoted below:"Next Question (13 of 15)Question 13. The .264 Winchester Magnum, which offered high velocity even at long range, was never a success. Why?A: It required a 26-inch barrel and special two-diameter bullets to reach its advertised speed. Without those, it was just an extra-loud .270.B: Jack O'Connor hated it, and said so.C: Both A and B."Cheers

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Several of us one Caribou season all used the Sierra Matchking 338 cal 250 BTSP. One hole going in and two going out!

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Claytry the Speer reloading manual #8 for the 6.5mm bullets.WA MtnhunterThe two diameter they are refering to is the radius of the ogive.The ogive being the curved part of the bullet, ya know the part where the bullet goes from being a cylinder to the point.Winchester used a tangent ogive, where as the "normal ogive" as used by the other calibers used a seacant ogive. If you are familiar with trigonometry you know what I'm talking about ,if not welllll. Ihave an article on it. As soon as I find it I'll let you know so you can read it yourself.Look at a Sierra Matchking and a typical soft point you'll see how the tapered part is longer.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterI've been around a long time and this is a first on me? Were did you come across on this 2 diam?

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from John Chenelle wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

The ans. to your cartrige quiz question #5 is wrong. In 1940 Du Pont introduced IMR 4350,a powder with about the same burning rate as H4831 ,the salvaged 20mm cannon powder, years before Hogden made 4831 available.Some early lots of H 4831 had virtually the same rate as IMR 4350

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

I have several friends in Texas who use .25-06, .257 Weatherby, .257 Roberts Ackley Imp., etc. on deer and elk (not in Tejas). I always thought they were a little light in bullet weight for elk. But perhaps with bullets like the Trophy Bonded or Triple Shocks, the .25's would be fine. But I think I'll stick with my .35 Whelen and .30-06 for the big boys.I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what a two-diameter bullet is.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

In fact I have looked at the 257 Weatherby Mag and to tell you the truth the only reason I don’t have one is feeding the damn thing! I shoot too much!

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from Guess Who wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Anything the 25-06 can do the 257 Wby. can do 200 fps faster... Clay you know you want one.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Have you ever seen what a 22-250 or 25-06 a does to the lungs of a deer? What a bloody mess!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Have you ever seen what a 22-250 or a does to the lungs of a deer? What a bloody mess!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Devil_DogDo you really think I would use a 22-250 on Elk, HEL NO! Deer, you better believe it. I would use my 338 Win Mag with a Nosler 210 or 250 partitions. Everyone that has hunted or knows of those that have will tell you if you don’t anchor that Bull on the first shot, it’s going off the side of the mountain. My point is this sir. More and more hunters think that they need an Elk or Moose gun/load just to knock down a deer. I have proven to a lot of other magnum hunters that you can do the job just as good if not better on deer by using a 25-06. I know of a Hunter that put his 340 Weatherby back in the safe and bought a 30-06 for Caribou. Not everyone can shoot a magnum accurately do to the recoil involved? I speak with a lifetime of experience while those that just watch TV, read magazines and got to be able to brag that my gun is bigger than your gun. Follow what I’m saying Devil Dog.I didn’t say I would be using a 22-250 on Elk. I’m just saying it can be done. I would prefer my 338 Win Mag.One more thingIt's not the arrowIT's THE INDIAN!

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from Devil_Dog wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

It isn't a question of whether or not you can do the job with a mini Nosler, it's a question of should you, and if so, do you really think it's ethical?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

.224 diam Nosler 60 grain partition would work on Elk

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from Eric at Gunsite wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Sorry to piss in this intellectual gumbo, but the name is/was spelled 'Niedner', pron. NEED-ner.Please make a note of it. Then resumed quibbling. Ready? Set? Go!

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from Devil_Dog wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

" This season I’m going to use my 22-250 and I will put it up against any other rifle out there. Dead is dead!However, for those with confidence in there ability to shoot, a 25-06 will do just a good of a job as any other rifle including Elk. That is why this season; I’m using my 22-250."Posted 16 Aug 2007 @ 1015Maybe I read wrong, wouldn't be the first time. But it sounds like elk hunting with a 22-250 to me.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Devil_DogWho said taking Elk with a .224 cal! The smallest sudjested cartridge for Elk is 25-06!

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

DD: You aren't wrong. Most State Game Departments won't allow .22 cal anythings for big game hunting - and rightly so.

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from Devil_Dog wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

22-250 for elk? This will start a fecal-storm for sure, but a .22 cal bullet for deer, much less elk, is pushing unethical. I know, I know "it's the indian not the arrow", but a smart indian uses broad heads not field points. 22 bullets make tiny holes, and tiny holes don't allow as quick a death. And if the ultimate goal of an ethical hunter is the fastest, most reliable death possible, I say .22 bullets are too small. And don't tell me you can take head shots with 22's because of the low recoil and awesome accuracy. Head shots are for straight up idiots, and it's no-questions unethical move.Again, yes .22's can and will kill, and yes, dead is in fact dead. I just think the odds of something bad happening are too great, and that there are plenty of other rounds that do the same thing ten times better.Now then, gun nut blog posting allstars; ready...set...tell me how wrong I am!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterWow, you scared me for a moment!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Clay Cooper:In response to your "WA Mtnhunter you never herd of a 264 Win Mag one of the flattest shooting Commercial Magnum cartridges?"To clarify my comment, I meant that I have never heard of a two-diameter bulet for the .264 Win Mag. I am not disputing it's existence, just that I had never heard of it! I have certainly heard of the .264 Win Mag, but it is way down the trail on my personal wish list.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I stated s few nights back that the WSM's and WSSM's were shot lived, ammo will be a problem to find. Take a 30-30,30-06,270 and most country stores will have them on the shelve. These new fangled Short, fat bullets will pass in the night. If I owned one of the WSM's I'd be looking for a trade ASAP. I hunt the Rocky Mountains as often as my $$$ will allow, and I take my Rem 700 Classic 25-06 and my Rem CDL in 30-06. I can-do hunt all the game I can draw tags for. I love the 25-06 on Lopes and w-tails but go to the 06 for Elk and Mule deer. In my 25-06 I use Winchester Ballastic tip 1l5 gr and in the 06, use the l80 scricco bonded. Each rifle will shoot beyond my capabilities with correct ammo,(3 shots @200yds a Silver Dollar covers) but being 72 yrs old, disabled/handicpped I try only one shot kills and I can;t track a wounded animal. My suggestion, buy a quality standard rifle, tried and proven ammo and pratice as much as possible. Leave the new Fatties on the shelve. A 100 bucks worth of pratice ammo can make all the difference in a 5K hunt. PS Any of you guys own a (A. Uberti 6 shooter in 45? )I;m in the market for a new one with Walnut grips and 4 3/4" or 5 l/2" bbl. I;m told Stoeger is the only importer of this handgun now, mfgered in Italy. Any info will be appreciated. This handgun is suppose to be exact copy of orig. Colt peacemaker?????. I want a new side arm for Mtn hunting and I can;t handle a 44 mag. I would apreciate any info you gys have on the A Uberti. Thanks. And finally, us gun nuts only need 4 firearms; a 22 rim fire, a 25-06, a 30-06 and a 12 ga shotgun either a Auto or dble bbl.But if we only had 4 guns, the gun shops would go out of business, right? I;ll just take one of each that I like.The old Gun Slinger down south,.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

25-06 ROCKS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dumba** |H4831 I haven’t used. IMR4831 I’ve burned up tons of this stuff since I was 7. I would reduce my charge by 2 grains and rework it up using Federal 215 magnum. The reason being, I have found you can squeeze a bit more velocity and more accuracy with a hotter primer. The slower the powder, the harder to ignite it. Winchester 760 with CCI 200 I get hang fires almost every time. Switch to Federal or Winchester primers fixes the problem. For deer, any bullet would work great in the 25-06. I hope your hunts will be as memorable as my hunts!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Goly’Ge their Mr. Jeff Nelson,Weatherby sells one hell of a lot of rifles and ammo to people?What continent are these people on, Africa perhaps? Of all the places I’ve been, Marlin, Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Thompson Contender and once in a while a Savage will show up. Besides, I’ve done a lot of hunting and thinking about it, a Weatherby would have not been kneaded on all accounts. Alaska Natives use 30-30 on Grizzly, Brown (the same bear as a Grizzly) and Polar Bear. They are good at what they do and don’t waist time and effort in doing so. There far better hunters than anyone you can come up with, yet alone name!Besides, I have more fun and adventure with my 25-06 than you will ever know! By the way, have you ever shot a barrel out yet (3 barrels in 25-06, 2 barrels in 22-250) or better yet, wore a action clean out? I have!The 25-06 ROCKS!Girly Men can’t handle the 25-06!Posted by: Clay Cooper | August 16, 2007 at 07:41 PMDr. RalphWhat happened to all the Anti-Crossbow people? You would think they would be here condemning these BIG AND BAD MAGNUMS, that it's unsportsmanship to have so much of an edge on other hunters? I wonder perhaps these Magnum People are the Anti-Cross bowers themselves?Humm? Got to think this one over? They do have the same level of rage against other Sportsmen!What do you think Doc?Personally, what ever you fell comfortable and able to do the job, go for it! 700 Nitro on deer, what ever!Posted by: Clay Cooper | August 16, 2007 at 07:50 PMImagine you travel to go on a fly in hunt or some special guided hunt and your luggage comes up missing? Your ammo is gone! Your dear sweet Weatherby Ammo is GONE! O’MY! And you’re in some hellhole! Try and find the ammo you need and good luck sucker in finding it!Posted by: Clay Cooper | August 16, 2007 at 07:57 PM

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from Mike Diehl wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I hear you. I used a .30-30 in Maine for years. For eastern woodland hunting it's a great round.I'm just saying the .30-06 does more if you can afford one rifle only. It does more than the .30-30, any 6mm, the 7mm mag, or the .270, without the horrid recoil of the magnum 30cals.That's needed here in Arizona where I now live. If I ever draw a pronghorn tag a .30-30 would simply be a poor choice for the job. The .30-06 would do it (although my first choice for antelope will be, when the time comes, my .243).

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Mike Diehl what is that, the pi round or round pie? Love the 30-30... have an ancient Model 94 that my fifteen year old uses. The action is sloppy, it's rusty and the wood could use re-finishing but it's probably killed more deer than any other rifle I own. Not by me of course, but it was at least forty years old when I bought it from my old 3 tour of duty Nam vet neighbor and I know he and his son both did a lot of damage with it. It is the perfect companion for a fifteen year old in the Tennessee hills. It is small, light, carries a heck of a lot of ammo and never fails to fire.

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from Mike Diehl wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

In re the .30-30 in Alaska -- I'd say it is probably a great round for shooting seals.The best all around cartridge for "Joe Average" guys like me is the .30-06. I say "Joe Average" because I don't believe in "tack drivers" except in the hands of people who have nothing to do every day but go to the range. And I don't hand-load my rounds, so I don't spend a lifetime bejiggering the perfect load for that .314159-26 (or whatever) goofball round that someone invented a half-century ago.I shoot factory ammo. My .30-06 in my hands shoots just under 1MOA. In my dad's hands (he's 73) it shoots better. It's a factory gun shooting factory ammo and it comes in a sufficient range of bullet weights that I can find a nice spitzer boat that will do the job just right on anything I want to shoot. I can get -06 rounds that vary from 55 grains (why I'd want one that light escapes me, but Rem makes 'em) to 220 grains and most decent intervals in between.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Thuty-thuty! Still see lots of them in the woods up here; Marlins, Winchesters of course, even some of the single-shot break open NEF and HR rifles. My own Winchester M-94 is a favorite companion in the woods.SA

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Alaska natives primary rifle is the 30-30. What say YOU!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Good point Clay.Reminds me of a bit of local (Northwoods) lore regarding an older Native American hunter. Seems he went out every year and got his moose; the exact caliber varies with the version of the tale but I have heard .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .56 Spencer. He would always gut-shoot the moose so it would find its way to water where it would die, hence the hunter could just float the moose downstream to the camp rather than having to drag it. I am NOT opining that it is OK to gut-shoot any animal, by the way. My point is that regardless of exactly which cartridge he used he knew how to place his shot to get the desired result. None of the cartridges I've heard mentioned in the story are -- by today's standards -- adequate to take a moose but this man did so very regularly.It is the Indian not the arrow.SA

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from Clay Coope wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

WOW, Look at all the “Armchair Specialists” coming out of the woodwork! One of my friends in Alaska favorite rifle for Caribou is a 270 with a 130 grain bullet. Drop the Bulls just as dead as my 338 Win Mag! Reason why I carried the 338 is someone will wound a Grizz and will have to assist tracking it down. Another hunter had to have a 375 H&H for Caribou and yes it worked fine until He wounded a nice Bull ran of Taylor Mountain and knocked down three cows deader than a doornail just with one shot, good job shooter, stupid person! I told him that it’s to big of a rifle for Caribou, but he had to use it. Cost him a nice fine and suspended hunting license for the remainder of the season!This season I’m going to use my 22-250 and I will put it up against any other rifle out there. Dead is dead!My point is, there are those that lack the skill, confidence and knowledge in their ability to do something, so they think they must use a bigger hammer. The 270 is a very good rifle indeed and if someone wanted one rifle only to hunt with, this be the one of the best choices. However, for those with confidence in there ability to shoot, a 25-06 will do just a good of a job as any other rifle including Elk. That is why this season; I’m using my 22-250. For those that brag and cut down those saying they are afraid of a little kick? Lets step out to do some 600 yard shots with my Browning A-Bolt 338 Win Mag loaded with 250 Nosler partitions @2835fps and shoot 50 rounds and see if you can hit and stay up with this old man!I like to set Mark on top a 5 gallon can full of water and shoot it with a 25-06. I wonder what will happen?Silly boys, It’s the Indian, NOT THE ARROW!

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Hey, what about Marlin's .32 special?

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Mr. PetzalI meant no ill to you in the comments above.A J McClain was certainly the Gentleman's Gentleman to all, and one of the finest writers to grace the pages of any outdoor magazine.Half the fun of this Blog is the debate and the not so humble opinions. The other half is that you don't get enough ink in the magazine so we get to read more of your 'stuff' between issues.BestSA

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from Mark wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

The 270 obviously does a wonderful job for deer size game, probably better than any 6mm or .25-cal bullet, but I hardly would call a 270 the premier North American cartridge. From my personal experience I want bullet weight heavier than 130-grains for animals larger than deer and the 7mm and .30-cal cartridges fit this bill and can do it better than 270 using bullets heavier than 130-grains. It’s also my personal observation there’s not much difference between a 120-grain 25-cal bullet going 2900+ at the muzzle and the 270 130-grain bullet, or for that matter: 120-grain 6.5mm bullets.BTY if a person wants to varmint hunt with a 270 by all means do it, but I’ve yet to see a 270 than can group and is as accurate as a 25-cal, 6mm, or a 6.5mm cartridge. Why this is so escapes me, but if this observation is wrong everybody be using 270’s for varmints. Maybe 270 bullets aren’t made to close tolerances.O yes, Hydrostatic Shock?????? You gotta be kidding me. I don’t believe I’ve ever witness a more misleading term or superstitious belief on this blog. The bigger an animal is, the harder it is to kill. A bullet must get inside an animal and shed its energy quickly to kill quickly. What works well on pronghorn and deer may not work as well on an elk or moose, and visa versa. However, anything with a .338 hole or larger drilled through its vitals on this continent is dead meat.

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from Jason Hinkle wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Duplicate entry '342023' for key 1INSERT INTO board_data (id,board,author,email,subject,thread,parent,body,ip,host,datestamp,link,linkname,image,vipflag,email_replies,hide_email) VALUES ('342023','8','Bobby Flay','','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','342002','342016','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','65.54.98.109','4.174.237.217',NOW(),'','','','','','')

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from Jason Hinkle wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Duplicate entry '342023' for key 1INSERT INTO board_data (id,board,author,email,subject,thread,parent,body,ip,host,datestamp,link,linkname,image,vipflag,email_replies,hide_email) VALUES ('342023','8','Bobby Flay','','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','342002','342016','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','65.54.98.109','4.174.237.217',NOW(),'','','','','','')

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

This is now officially the .25-06/Cactus Jack blog. I don't like the .270 Winchester. The .270 kicks a lot harder than the 7mm-08 sorry Dave. It kicks so much harder than a .25-06 it ain't even funny. It kicks harder than my .257 Wby. Mag... check out Chuck Hawks rifle recoil table. It kicks just a little bit less than my '06 and I'll take the '06 every day of the week. O'Connor's three gun battery; .22 12ga. 30-06. The only reason he didn't fall in love with it is because mainly heavier bullets were available then and he couldn't reach out and touch them out west where he hunted like his 130 gr. .270 could. Maybe it's my imagination or the lack of recoil but it seems like all of the .25-06 rifles I have shot were really accurate. Much more so than .270's. The pre-64 Model 70 .270 may have been the perfect deer slayer but things have changed. Welcome to the twenty first century with Nosler Partitions and super accurate varmint variations of the quarter inch '06...

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from Jeff Nelson wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

After doing some work with the cartridge, I just can't see why anyone would choose the .25-06 over the .270 Win, unless they're recoil-shy. The 130 grain .270 bullet can be driven over 100 fps faster than the 120 grain .25 bullet, giving flatter trajectory and more energy. Same with the 110 grain .270 bullet versus the 100 grain .25 bullet. For varmints, the .25-06 doesn't do anything the 6mm Remington can't do equally as well with less recoil. I've concluded that the .25-06 is just about as useless as the .280 Remington. Neither cartridge is the equal of the .270 Winchester.The O'Connor bashing will never cease, but I suppose that's bound to happen when you're a dead icon. Funny that I never see as much Keith bashing, but he was a lot more "down-home" (i.e. uneducated) than Jack was, hence easier for most folks to relate to. Dave has met the man, so his opinion of O'Connor is certainly valid, but when he says that Jack bullied people who "couldn't fight back", I think that's an indictment of his adversaries' intellectual capabilities (or lack thereof). Jack O'Connor was one smart cookie, and he didn't let anyone forget it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dumba**It’s obvious you want to use a heavy grain bullet. That’s not where the knock down power of the 25-06 is. Because you’re using an Ultra High Velocity round, other factors move into play. One factor is hydrostatic shock and this balances out for less foot-pound energy using lighter bullet. Instead of hitting it with a Mac truck, you’re using a small pill at ultra high velocity causing massive damage like a bomb.Lets see? What would I recommend? First I’m going to take it for granted that your largest game is deer. The 115, 117 and 120 grain are great, but I prefer the 100 grain. The 100 grain will knock both Coyote and deer down with no problem. I never lost a deer using 100 grain bullets. Do not use Sierra because you will get bullet separation unless it’s a core-bonded bullet. At 600 yards, the 100 grain is 10 inches flatter than the 120. In a 100 grain bullet, I use Hornady 100 grain Spire Point #2540, Necked down Military Match Cases(same lot ball cases work just as fine), Federal 215 Magnum Primer and according to my Hornady reloading book third addition using IMR4831 shows 53.6 is max, but I use 55.0 and this load crony’s out at 3550 fps and the overall length is 3.120”.Now if your compelled to use heavier grain bullets, I still would recommend a 100 grain like the Nosler Partition. The beauty about the 25 caliber, that there is so many bullets available and the reason I prefer the Hornady 100 grain spire point is because the lead core is locked in, it doesn’t cost you an arm and a leg to reload for and it’s the actual load that you’ll be hunting with. You get plenty of trigger time playing with it busting critters and small rocks at long range making you a better shot when it’s hunting season. Shoot like a Pro you will!My primary bullet is a Hornady 100 grain bullet for all game, except Elk. I loaded up some 120 grain Nosler Partitions last year and shot the biggest White Tail Doe I’ve ever seen. It literally blew both sides of the shoulder out like you hit here with a bomb at 200 yards, No Joke it was nasty! I’ve shot deer with a 300 Win Mag and they didn’t do this amount of destruction. I’ve shot a lot of game in my life, but that 25-06 is one of the wicked cartridges I’ve ever come across.Remember one thing about the 25-06, it’s a ultra high velocity round your working with and that’s my Friend is where the magic of the cartridge is at. You’re using the hydrostatic shock, rather than foot-pound energy to kill. It’s the detonation of internal organs causing massive hemorrhaging, leaving one hell of a blood trail.So if your looking for a cartridge that is fun and want to shoot like a Pro, then I would recommend the 25-06 over all other cartridges. Remember, the 257 WSSM falls short of the 25-06 by 100 fps and the cost of the 257 WSSM round is $$$$$$ compared to the 25-06!One more thing, Hodgens and IMR with the same number H4895 vs IMR4895 and H4831 vs IMR4831 are/ is not the same powder and have different burning rates. Substituting one for the other can and will blow your rifle up and make your day very unhappy if you survive to tell about it!Check all loads with your reloading book before using and follow there recommended guidelines!

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from Rc Helleberg wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I have two rifles in 25-06--TC Encore with a 24 inch tube and a model 7600 Remington ---they made a special run of them--even has a factory black laminated stock---I use the Encore with 120 nosler partiton's for both mule deer and whitails and 87 grain Hornady's for coyotes and other critters--love the 7600-- for critters--both guns will shot sub-moa's all day long if you do your part--

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Clay: I'm just barely smart enough not to get into this "big bore .vs. small bore" & "Jack .vs. Elmer" debate (see above). So, back to the .25-06: I'm a big H-4831 fan but am considering trying IMR-7828 and RL-25 (the super slow stuff) with the 115 & 120 gr. Noslers. Any thoughts and load recommondations?

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from ChevJim wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Back in the late 1960s, when I was a teenager, I corresponded with Jack. He really did answer his own letters. I remember that he told me to forget having a bore chrome-plated, as Charles Askins had advised. Jack said he saw the chrome get shot out of the barrels of anti-aircraft guns. He told me that he liked the Model 70 Winchester, but wasn't "married" to any brand. I got his last book, appropriately titled, "The Last Book." He took a swipe at the big-bore advocates of the day, including our own Dave Petzal, whom Jack feared had fallen under the spell of Elmer Keith. All Jack was saying was that you didn't need a cannon for most game animals. When you read O'Connor and Keith side-by-side, you will see that they actually agreed about 90 percent of the time. According to Jack, Keith was being paid peanuts for his gun writing, while Jack was doing very well for himself. He supposedly helped Keith secure a writing job with Guns & Ammo--if I recall correctly. I think we all owe Jack a lot. He showed us that you don't have to lug around a big-bore magnum and absorb punishing recoil in order to successfully hunt most North American game--or even similar game in Africa. He emphasized marksmanship and shot placement over kinetic energy and the size of the hole in one's muzzle. By doing so, Jack helped to keep the gun manufacturers honest. He also drove more than one nail into the coffin of that abomination, the post-1964 Model 70 Winchester. It was Jack who taught me to appreciate the beauty of firearms--whether it was a handsome factory sporter or a custom rifle. Now, as to the small vs. large caliber debate, here we have Dave Petzal singing the praises of the .25-06. Back in the 1970s, I'd venture to say that Dave favorite pronghorn rifle was probably a .300 magnum or larger. Now I'll bet that Dave doesn't see the need for all of that extra horsepower. But lest anyone accuse me of being one of Jack's unquestioning disciples, let me say that I haven't owned a .270 since 1971--and that I'd take a .30/06 over a .270 any day of the week. That said, there is evidence suggesting that the .30/06 was Jack's hands-on favorite, too!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dumba**I prefer calibers of the 06 class. Plenty of 270 and 30-06 to reform cases from! Believe it of not, I’ve have taken 300 Win Mag cases and reformed them to 338 Win Mag. Works great, but after about the 3’rd or 4th reload the neck would split. What the hell, they were free! I also use 7mm Rem Mag cases also and it’s really funny to shoot a 5 gallon bucket with another shooter with a 7mm Rem Mag and they want to know where did I get the explosive bullets from. All I show them is the 7mm Rem Mag stamp of the case. They don’t know that there reformed 338 Win Mag and really is a hoot to watch them try to chamber one!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I've shot more deer with my 25-05 than all my other rifles combined! I'm toying with the idea of using my 338 Win Mag loaded with a Hornady 225 grain SST @ 3000fps this deer season, but that really sounds sadistic?

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Clay: 6.5x.284 is your answer, too bad it's still a wildcat. Use a long action so 120gr. & up can be seated no deeper than base of the neck. Those medium to heavy 6.5 bullets have unbelieveable SD. It started out as a long range target round, but it's also a superb deer/goat round with 120 and up bullets. Don't kick much, either.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I would like to see a 264-06/6.5-06 on the market. Now that would be a real good deer rifle!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Ok Dr Ralph, I know you and a few others been waiting for me to come on line on the 25-06.Where do I start? The 25-06 is one of the best cartridges ever made.My 25-06, I’ve worn the barrel out 3 times and yes I do shoot that much.I have a 22-250, 25-06 and 30-06 but I love that 25-06 and it’s my #1 deer rifle.You can load bullets from 75 grain @ 3700fps that are 22-250 velocities, great for Jackrabbits and coyotes to 120 Grain @ 3000 FPS for Caribou and Elk.Lets start, the 25-06 is the smallest cartridge recommended for Elk. Imagine that! With a 120 grain Nosler Partition at 3000 fps you will get complete pass thru and literally blow both shoulders out of the largest deer. I would prefer a 100 grain bullet for deer. If you cross the performance of 270 with a 22-250, you’ll have a 25-06. The 257 WSSM believe it or not 100 feet per second slower than the 25-06 and I’ll pick the Quarter Pounder (my rifles nickname and a 25 cent coin group at 200 yards) 25-06 over the 257 WSSM any day, WHAT A JOKE THE 257 WSSM IS!Shooting the 25-06 is really sweet! You get the range, the required knock down power and no kick compared to a magnums that will just clean your plow every time you pull the lanyard on that cannon!If you like a recommended rifle that will take every thing from jackrabbits to Elk, the 25-06 is one of my best choices! Of course with Elk, you must place your shot carefully, but this is where the magic of the 25-06 comes in. It lets the novice shooter, shoot like a PRO, NO JOKE! With hardly any kick, there is no flinch factor and you can concentrate 100 % on the shot!WA Mtnhunter you never herd of a 264 Win Mag one of the flattest shooting Commercial Magnum cartridges? The reason the 264 Win Mag never really came to be a big player is because of its barrel life. It’s one of the flattest commercially made cartridges at 1000 yards. If I were a Gun Manufacturer, I would explore better metals for making a superior barrel to handle the heat generated by this very fine cartridge. The 264 Win Mag is next on my list! 85 grain bullets @ 3700fps to 160 @2900 makes it a real Hunters Rifle!Clay’s bottom line!I have shot every caliber at magnum velocities on the market with 45 years of competition and hunting under my belt. This is my bottom lin, if you want a cartridge that has the range, the knock down power and want to shoot like a Pro? The 25-06 is your #1 choice, Period! It’s the ultimate Youth and Women’s rifle. Better than a 243 hands down! Easy on the pocket book, you will get a lot of service out of this cartridge and it’s a blast to shoot.I remember my hunts in New Mexico, Paul Turner, George Krug and Mac Thompson would be shooting at a critter at long range. I would wait until the criiter gets beyond their range. They would hear a crack, boom, see the critter blowing up and the detonation pop of the impact of the bullet. Then one of them would yell out, Clay I think you gottem!Not recommended for shooting Turkeys at 400 yards! YUCK!

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from Lyn wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

.25-06, .270, 7mm-08---own them all, love them all. The 25-06 and 7mm-08 are noticably lighter in recoil vs. the .270. Difference on deer sized game is negliglble given reasonable range. Depends on what type of terrain I'm hunting, but most times I reach for my Browning A-bolt composite stalker in 7mm-08----speaks softly and knocks stuff flat.

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from David wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

HmmShould I get a 308 or a 25-06??

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from R Adams in Wyoming wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

For over 20 years in Texas plains & Brush Country the wife & I hunted occasionally. She carried a 25/06 Remington 700 BDL (made about 1970 impressed checkering)& loved it. I carried my Custom '03 Springfield Remington Action Shilen Stiff Barrel 30/06 (8.6 lb scoped).I'm almost to retire now up here in the thinner air & am getting some arthritis. The 25/06 is not with us; so a replacement is needed. Should we BOTH get new .270's balancing range effectiveness vs. gun weight/recoil ?

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To Gablesadovsky: I would get the T3.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Silver Arrow-You are correct, sir. Most of the opinions expressed are not very humble, mine included. I shan't use IMHO again! I mean no disrespect for Cactus Jack. Just because he was as ass doesn't mean he was not a great man. George S. Patton....?".35 Whelan" is properly spelled ".35 Whelen". Townsend W. spelled his name that way, although "a" is a common spelling for the name.Does the .25-06 really do a better job than the .257 Roberts at moderate ranges? I get near-.25-06 velocity with handloads. Almost all the .257 Roberts factory loads are anemic.Ralph the Rifleman -Ah, the .358 Winchester. Talk about killing like the 'Hammer of Thor'! My old 99 in .358 is a favorite for timber hunting.

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from David wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Yo Bro Mr 25-06 Man Good read

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from Tom wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Very good commentary on the .25-06. Except...Charles Newton was the originator, not Neidner. However, Neidner promoted it, and is usually given credit for it, whereas Newton dropped it, in favor of his .256 Newton which is the '06 necked to6.5, instead of .25 cal.But Newton was first.Best regards,Tom

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To fgrant: The Sheridan Inn - thank you, sir. You're a gentleman and a scholar. And I stand behind the "superb steaks and the pork chop is almost better than sex" comment. If you're ever in Sheridan, give it a try. Best food in town, and I've tried them all. If you want to visit a true "old west saloon", head to the Mint Bar on Main Street. It's a classic. The "heads" and old photos alone are worth the visit. Thanks again.

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from gablesadovsky wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dave,I cant decide which to purchase--I am looking at either the Tika T3 Hunter or the Ruger 77 Mark II (or if I cant find one the new Hawkeye)in .338 Win Mag. Let me know what you think.

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from Mark wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Ditto’s and Kudo’s on the 25-06. I don’t know of many cartridges based on the ’06 that haven’t made it in some shape, form, or another.People who have done more ambitious hunting, and writing, than I say O’Connor became a game hog in his age. These folks claim O’Connor made too many Sheep Grand Slams and took poor heads on his later sheep hunts. However, the guy had the field hunting experience and did it in wild country.Writing and Expert—When I was just starting out I hung on O’Connor’s every word, but as I gained field experience along with shooting and loading experience I had the opinion O’Connor had his favorites and prejudices in rifles and shotguns…that he could write very well about. I thought most his ideas on shotguns and shotgunning were horrible and real bush league. I think O‘Connor defined the custom rifle criteria superbly.Point: Do a lot of reading by different authors to get a more complete picture of this sport

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I should have mentioned that I had this rifle built in 1972 and it continues to print five-shot groups of 1" to 1-1/4" at 100 yds.

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago
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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I had a .25/06 built on a Finnish Sako action, Sako barrel and French walnut stock by Reinhart Fajen. I still have an old 6X Redfield scope on it, and the rifle has taken dozens of deer and pronghorns in North Dakota, Wyoming and Montana. It is undoubtedly my favorite rifle for pronghorns. I use 120-gr. Speer Spitzers and 120-grain Nosler Partitions ahead of 55 grs. of H-4831.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Where are you Clay? This is your baby... I don't have a lot of experience with the 25-06 but my brother in law did shoot one deer with his when we were hunting together. He was using Nosler Ballistic Tip hand loads and the entrance hole looked just like an exit hole. The whole shoulder of the deer was blown out right where he hit it. My only guess is that the bullet was going really fast (he is notorious for dangerous hand loads and he too was using the Ruger No.1 so that falling block can withstand a lot of pressure) and exploded on impact with the shoulder. Either way it was dead less than 10 yards away.As for O'Connor I have to agree with the bully part, but we all know he was a hard man to get along with just from his books. If you disagreed with him you were wrong and an idiot and that was that. I still love him...

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from fgrant wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

The steak house in Sheridan is the Sheridan Inn - old hotel where Buffalo Bill used to audition acts on the front lawn.Located on 5th street, one block east of Main St.

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To Silverarrow: O'Connor has no greater fan than I, but he habitually picked--hard--on people who couldn't fight back. Just out of meanness, and because he could.Al McClane, our late and much-missed fishing editor, was an even greater figure in his world than O'Connor was in his, and no nicer man ever drew breath. An unfailing gentleman--to everyone, large and small.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Being a shotgun and bow hunter my first 20 years in the field, I didn't get my first big game rifle until the 1977, a Winchester Mod 70 in 25-06. I didn't know much about the cartridge but it came highly recommended from a knowledgable neighbor (editor for American Hunter) so I took the leap. I never regretted it.An excellent all-around cartridge made even better with todays bullet designs.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Funny thing; the normally super-wary Tom Turkey will come literally running when a more dominant Tom has been shot. Run right out into the kill zone to kick and otherwise punish the fallen superior. Sometimes I think we humans have the same instinct. As I recall one did not disparage Cactus Jack while he was able to do something about it. He was the most influential gun-scribe of his time and jealously guarded that influence -- if that made him a bully so be it. Pompous? Not really; he did talk big, but he walked big too. He didn't suffer the fool at all well but would take the time to explain a point to a neophyte. His favorite insult was to snort, loudly, and say (also loudly) "Hell, man, Eleanor can shoot better'n you do!" Eleanor of course was Mrs. O'Connor -- and yes she could shoot a durn sight better'n many.I am not nominating him for Sainthood but give Jack O'Connor his due respect.

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from Curious wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I am looking for a semi-auto shotgun that doesn't cost a fortune, but is reliable. I will mainly use it in the dove field. I saw the Remington SPR453 but don't know much about it. Any suggestions?

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dave: Glad to finally see some good press on the .25-06. My Montana rancher friend highly recommended it for deer & goats when I first started hunting "Big Sky" country 30+ years ago and it was great advice. It's still my "go to" rifle every time I head West. Can't beat the 120 gr. Nosler Partition over H-4831. Kills like the Hammer of Thor. Keep thinking about trying IMR-7828 and RL-25 behind that Nosler, but then then figure "If it ain't broke........" And by the way, at the risk of starting WWIII again, give my regards to your friend JZ. I miss his writing. Hope he's doing OK. And the next time you're in Sheridan, WY, be sure and have dinner at that Steakhouse over by the old Steam Locomotive. Superb steaks and the pork chop is almost better than sex. Damnit, I can't remember the name of the place - it's hell gettin old. Then again, can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, so I shouldn't feel too bad... Ask around, the locals will point you in the right direction.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

What about cartridges which are seeing renewed interest? Think .405 Win, .35 Whelan (although that one we have pretty well hacked through), .264 Win Mag, .225 Win Mag, 6mm Rem, and did someone mention a new weapon chambered in .17 Rem?I'd opine that a particular cartridge fades away from lack of wide spread investment in rifles for it, however wonderfully it performs. The proprietary Savage rounds, the Ackley Improved bunch, a multitude of metric numbers from around the globe. They never achieve enough investment in this country.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

IMHO = In My Humble OpinionHard to figure out because most of the opinions are hardly humble!Have to say I wondered about the omission of the .25-06 from your list in the magazine. Along with the .30-06, .270 Win and .30-30 ammo for it is likely to be found at any crossroads country store in game country; not so for the 7mm-08. Just another reason to choose it.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

The .25/06 is a sweet cartridge for sure--thanks for honoring it Dave.My dying cartridge for discussion is the .358 Winchester.

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from Michael wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Mr. Petzel,I wondered if a category that didn't appear in the cartridge guide was "woods rifle" cartridges? What might be the top ones there? Or should people just get semi autos chambered in your suggestions for all-around cartridges?Michael

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To All: Dying cartridges sounds like a good idea. I think it would work better on the blog than in the magazine, but we shall see.To Sam Iacabone: The 7mm/08 kicks a little ligher than the .270, but to tell the truth, it's hard to notice the difference. The 270 has it all over the 7mm/08 for shooting at long range (300 yards plus) and that is the one I'd go with.To Wa MTN Hunter: You left out bully. He was superb at it. Also, what does IMHO mean?

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from Matt in MN wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I like PbHead's idea! Let's have an article or at least a blog on fading cartidges. I just bought an old 99 in .300 Savage and would like to hear your thoughts Dave!

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from sam iacobone wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

i am looking to purchase a rifle for mostly deer but want the ability for all around game. i was told either the 7mm 08 or the 270 win. which do you prefer? which has a lighter recoil yet better range?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

DaveI took your Gun Nut Hard Quiz and got 14 of 15, so it wasn't THAT hard! What is a two diameter bullet for the .264 Win Mag? Never heard of that before.Also, IMHO, O'Connor was an excellent writer but somewhat of an elitist and pompous ass. If he was so righteous in his ramblings, we would all be using a .270 Win.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I enjoyed your cartride guide article. How about an article on good cartidges that are fading away for no good reason? My vote would be for the 250 Savage.

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from Visitor wrote 5 years 42 weeks ago

i have an a. uberti new dakota .45 4.75" barrell. can you tell me what it is worth

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from Tom Ogle wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

All you rifle loonies,Anybody know how precise the Greenhill equation is in predicting minimal barrel twist for bullet stablization? My 25-06 shoots 100 gr and 115 gr within 1 MOA but 120 gr bullets don't shoot worth a tinkers damn. My 1:10 twist barrel is marginally adequate for the 100 gr. according to Greenhill equation, thus 115 gr should not shoot well. I think the twist is too slow for the 120 gr. bullet, explaining its poor accuracy. , Some gun writers have stated that for modern rifle cartridges a constant of 180 should be used in the equation instead of the traditional 150. Greenhill was a British artilleryman and came up with the 150 factor empirically working with the slower velocities of artillery, so perhaps the 180 is justified. However, according to the equation, the ratio of bullet length to bullet diameter in calibers is the only determinate--velocity is not in the equation. Obviously, at the extremes of velocity (very high and very low) the Greenhill equation probably would not hold. So, do you guru's have a notion about the relationship between bullet stabilization and velocity? TOgle

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter, good luck on your hunt Sir. Next year and God willing, I’ll be up dar to! No telling what rifle I will be using? Perhaps I’ll buy another 25-06. It’s always duz the trick. That 130 will do you a fine job I know it will. I grew up using that bullet in Arizona.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Thanks, ClayI think I will load some 130's for my .308 for mule deer in Colorado this fall.You are right. You don't need artillery to kill deer. Just have to hit 'em right.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterIt's a soft point. It’s not a fancy bullet; But O’Man they really do work, no joke! Winchester 748 should work great. 53.8 grains will push that pill at 3100fps. I’ve loaded hundreds for friends and thousands for myself using the Hornady 130 for 30-06 & 308 and they love that load better than the heaver bullets. Once you tried them, it’s hard to go back to anything else. Shot a monster hog in Louisiana. That 130 out of my 30-06 dropped it like a ton of bricks with one shot. That load on critters and Mule Deer, WOW! Turns your 308 or 30-06 to shoot like a magnum! You don’t need a bazooka to knock down a deer!Another bullet I really love and works fantastic including Alaska is the Hornady 190 grain soft point boat tail is one of the best and overlooked bullets on the market. I turned a lot of people onto this bullet when I was in Alaska and it’s a really flat shooting bullet. 2837fps out of my 30-06 with 58 grains of IMR4831, Federal 215 primer in a Military case. One inch group at 200 yards! Eat your heart out Range Monkeys!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

ClayI think I will try some Hornady 130 Gr in my .308 Win. Is that a BTSP or SST that you recommend?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

MattIf I was you and deer is the largest game? I would pick the 25-06 hands down. I did everything with it just as good as my 300 Win Mag. Hell on varmints and deer. And one more thing that is being overlooked, even by me, darn! Great for shooting around cattle to! Do not use bullets like Barnes or Partition bullets that will have complete pass thru that would carry around cattle and make sure of what’s beyond your target regardless! I even got complete pass thru with my 22-250, so be careful Matt.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

SilverArrow2 true stories.1. A Colonel Daughter wanted to shoot competition. She wanted to shoot with the Holloman AFB High Power Team. We made her stay with small bore. This was around March of 85. June of 86, she was trying out for the Olympic shooting team at the Whittington Center in Raton New Mexico..2. While in Alaska, I got a call from one of the Squadron Commanders to open the range after hours to sight in his 340 Weatherby Mag. No problem! About the 5 or so round, the inside of the scope detonated. Busted lenses and the cross hairs where like coiled springs. It looked like a Mac Truck drove thru it. 45 minutes later, He had a new scope on it. A Tasco scope with short eye relief. I told him it would not work and He put it on anyway while I got the roll of paper towels out for the inevitable! First round, you guessed it, 3 stitches. With his hunt looking totally doomed, I let hem try my 30-06 with Hornady 190 BTSP @2835fps. Didn’t tell Him what it was, but he loved it. Love at first shot! 3 hours later, I was sighting in a brand new Remington 30-06 for His Sheep hunt the next day. Got his sheep and had a good time! That season also slammed his hunt with grizz, Moose, Caribou and was working on his 3rd Black Bear.Once again, this proves its not the Arrow, It’s the Indian!And how to destroy or save a shooters ability!Big Magnums, limited oneself to short range shots?I wonder?A 25-06 with a Nosler 120 partition works great on Caribou!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Clay writes:Since you’re new to Hunting, I strongly recommend staying clear of the Magnum Rifles, until you get proficient and able to handle the recoil.Can we get an Amen!SA

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from matt wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Thanks for the pointers guys they'r greatly appreciated.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

city folks (Dr. Ralph) just don't get it

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Know whut I mean Vern? Hell Clay do they sell Purity milk where you live or are you just personal friends with Ernest?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

But overall I still lov my 25-06!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterThat 308 Win is no punk at long range Brother!Just got to know how to hold your jaw just right. Know what I saying Vern! By the way, if you reload for that 308 try loading up some Hornady 130 grain. It’s dynamite on deer! Winchester 748 you can scream it out at 3100fps, 30-06 at 3300fps, 300 Win Mag 3500fps and 300 Weatherby 3700fps! Don’t pay any attention about the foot-pound energy, especially at long range. It will nock the biggest Buck *i*k in the dirt! No joke! I cut my teeth on them and know for a fact what they will do! Good Ol’Uncle Joyce W. Hornady did us a fine job, He did! Another excellent bullet that’s overlooked is the Hornady 190 BTSP! Flatter shooting and harder hitting in a 30-06 than a 7mm Rem Mag 175 grain at 1000yds.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

MattSilverArrow brings up a very good point. The 7.62 is not really a bad round. However SilverArrow is right about saving your coins up and get a quality rifle in a cartridge that is relatively available. I don’t know your abilities and what part of the country your in. If you live in the east, Hoarnay just came out with a new round for the 30-30 called the 30-30 WIN 160 GR LEVERevolution. This round makes the 30-30 a good 200 yard rifle. If you live in the west a 25-06 or 270. But if you plan to go Elk or Moose the 30-06 will do you a great job hands down or just want a rifle that will handle anything that comes along. I have personally witnessed a many Moose and Grizz taken with a 30-06 and it’s no punk! Personally I would go for the Remington 700BDL in 30-06. I’ve sighted in hundreds of rifles and it’s by far in my book the most accurate and reliable rifle straight out of the box. But remember, it’s not what someone else’s want; it’s what Matt wants and is comfortable shooting. Since you’re new to Hunting, I strongly recommend staying clear of the Magnum Rifles, until you get proficient and able to handle the recoil.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Clay:I did a bit of long range shooting in my younger days in the Army. A little herd culling....I don't have any good places to shoot nearby. If I did, I would ike to do some long range silhoutte shooting. I have thought about putting together a long 7mm magnum of some flavor. But for now, I 'm going to get a longer lens on my .308 for limited activity.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

MattIf that Moisin Nagant is all that you can fund at the moment it will do the job. If you can hold off, perhaps borrow a rifle for this season and find something in .30-30 or the like you will be better served. Ammo will be more available and lots less expensive hence you can practice more.SA

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from matt wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Im just getting in to deer hunting. But I dont have alot of money to spend on a rifle. I've ben looking at getting a mosin nagant 91/30 chambered in the only cartrige that they were7.62x54. if anyone has input it would be appriceated.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

I don’t know if I want to call it interesting or sad? Individuals buying rifles capable of extreme shooting (past 250 yards). And not training and educating oneself in doing just that. Ok you got this big magnum that’s out performs my rifle and you limit yourself to 100 yards or less?Like I said, The 25-06 lets the novice shooter, shoot like a PRO. Not only this, the 25-06 is for extreme shooters like myself. I can hear the Range Monkeys now!It would be an Honor and a blast to get Mr. David Petzal out to an area like New Mexico to teach him a few tricks and have him join the ranks of the SITNCC Club! There’s nothing special about it. In fact, it’s really nothing more than basic marksmanship.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Ed JI’m sorry Ed, we were using, Sierra GameKing® .338 Diameter 250 grain SPBT. Not only we had jacket separation, I experienced the same with my 25-06 with Sierra Gamekings 117 BTSP also. I shot a Jackrabbit at 300 yds plus and some change in New Mexico and found the bullet lying on top of the sand dune just a few feet past the critter. I was able to flip the core out with my thumbnail. I thought it was just a fluke so I went back to the spot I fired from and repeated it with 5 more rounds and all 5 did the same thing.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterDaveHave you ever considered in taking up long range silhouette shooting?The deal with the two-diameter bullets, must be due to the type of barrel they where using. New one on me!

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

ClayNow you know why Sierra says don't use Matchkings for hunting I tried them too.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Ed J - Thanks for your explanation of two-diameter bullets.Clay C.-Where I got the two-diameter reference was from the "Gun Nut Cartridge Quiz" from Mr. Petzal on this blog/F&S web site. Quoted below:"Next Question (13 of 15)Question 13. The .264 Winchester Magnum, which offered high velocity even at long range, was never a success. Why?A: It required a 26-inch barrel and special two-diameter bullets to reach its advertised speed. Without those, it was just an extra-loud .270.B: Jack O'Connor hated it, and said so.C: Both A and B."Cheers

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Several of us one Caribou season all used the Sierra Matchking 338 cal 250 BTSP. One hole going in and two going out!

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Claytry the Speer reloading manual #8 for the 6.5mm bullets.WA MtnhunterThe two diameter they are refering to is the radius of the ogive.The ogive being the curved part of the bullet, ya know the part where the bullet goes from being a cylinder to the point.Winchester used a tangent ogive, where as the "normal ogive" as used by the other calibers used a seacant ogive. If you are familiar with trigonometry you know what I'm talking about ,if not welllll. Ihave an article on it. As soon as I find it I'll let you know so you can read it yourself.Look at a Sierra Matchking and a typical soft point you'll see how the tapered part is longer.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterI've been around a long time and this is a first on me? Were did you come across on this 2 diam?

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from John Chenelle wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

The ans. to your cartrige quiz question #5 is wrong. In 1940 Du Pont introduced IMR 4350,a powder with about the same burning rate as H4831 ,the salvaged 20mm cannon powder, years before Hogden made 4831 available.Some early lots of H 4831 had virtually the same rate as IMR 4350

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

I have several friends in Texas who use .25-06, .257 Weatherby, .257 Roberts Ackley Imp., etc. on deer and elk (not in Tejas). I always thought they were a little light in bullet weight for elk. But perhaps with bullets like the Trophy Bonded or Triple Shocks, the .25's would be fine. But I think I'll stick with my .35 Whelen and .30-06 for the big boys.I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what a two-diameter bullet is.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

In fact I have looked at the 257 Weatherby Mag and to tell you the truth the only reason I don’t have one is feeding the damn thing! I shoot too much!

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from Guess Who wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Anything the 25-06 can do the 257 Wby. can do 200 fps faster... Clay you know you want one.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Have you ever seen what a 22-250 or 25-06 a does to the lungs of a deer? What a bloody mess!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Have you ever seen what a 22-250 or a does to the lungs of a deer? What a bloody mess!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Devil_DogDo you really think I would use a 22-250 on Elk, HEL NO! Deer, you better believe it. I would use my 338 Win Mag with a Nosler 210 or 250 partitions. Everyone that has hunted or knows of those that have will tell you if you don’t anchor that Bull on the first shot, it’s going off the side of the mountain. My point is this sir. More and more hunters think that they need an Elk or Moose gun/load just to knock down a deer. I have proven to a lot of other magnum hunters that you can do the job just as good if not better on deer by using a 25-06. I know of a Hunter that put his 340 Weatherby back in the safe and bought a 30-06 for Caribou. Not everyone can shoot a magnum accurately do to the recoil involved? I speak with a lifetime of experience while those that just watch TV, read magazines and got to be able to brag that my gun is bigger than your gun. Follow what I’m saying Devil Dog.I didn’t say I would be using a 22-250 on Elk. I’m just saying it can be done. I would prefer my 338 Win Mag.One more thingIt's not the arrowIT's THE INDIAN!

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from Devil_Dog wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

It isn't a question of whether or not you can do the job with a mini Nosler, it's a question of should you, and if so, do you really think it's ethical?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

.224 diam Nosler 60 grain partition would work on Elk

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from Eric at Gunsite wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Sorry to piss in this intellectual gumbo, but the name is/was spelled 'Niedner', pron. NEED-ner.Please make a note of it. Then resumed quibbling. Ready? Set? Go!

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from Devil_Dog wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

" This season I’m going to use my 22-250 and I will put it up against any other rifle out there. Dead is dead!However, for those with confidence in there ability to shoot, a 25-06 will do just a good of a job as any other rifle including Elk. That is why this season; I’m using my 22-250."Posted 16 Aug 2007 @ 1015Maybe I read wrong, wouldn't be the first time. But it sounds like elk hunting with a 22-250 to me.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

Devil_DogWho said taking Elk with a .224 cal! The smallest sudjested cartridge for Elk is 25-06!

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

DD: You aren't wrong. Most State Game Departments won't allow .22 cal anythings for big game hunting - and rightly so.

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from Devil_Dog wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

22-250 for elk? This will start a fecal-storm for sure, but a .22 cal bullet for deer, much less elk, is pushing unethical. I know, I know "it's the indian not the arrow", but a smart indian uses broad heads not field points. 22 bullets make tiny holes, and tiny holes don't allow as quick a death. And if the ultimate goal of an ethical hunter is the fastest, most reliable death possible, I say .22 bullets are too small. And don't tell me you can take head shots with 22's because of the low recoil and awesome accuracy. Head shots are for straight up idiots, and it's no-questions unethical move.Again, yes .22's can and will kill, and yes, dead is in fact dead. I just think the odds of something bad happening are too great, and that there are plenty of other rounds that do the same thing ten times better.Now then, gun nut blog posting allstars; ready...set...tell me how wrong I am!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 34 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterWow, you scared me for a moment!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Clay Cooper:In response to your "WA Mtnhunter you never herd of a 264 Win Mag one of the flattest shooting Commercial Magnum cartridges?"To clarify my comment, I meant that I have never heard of a two-diameter bulet for the .264 Win Mag. I am not disputing it's existence, just that I had never heard of it! I have certainly heard of the .264 Win Mag, but it is way down the trail on my personal wish list.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I stated s few nights back that the WSM's and WSSM's were shot lived, ammo will be a problem to find. Take a 30-30,30-06,270 and most country stores will have them on the shelve. These new fangled Short, fat bullets will pass in the night. If I owned one of the WSM's I'd be looking for a trade ASAP. I hunt the Rocky Mountains as often as my $$$ will allow, and I take my Rem 700 Classic 25-06 and my Rem CDL in 30-06. I can-do hunt all the game I can draw tags for. I love the 25-06 on Lopes and w-tails but go to the 06 for Elk and Mule deer. In my 25-06 I use Winchester Ballastic tip 1l5 gr and in the 06, use the l80 scricco bonded. Each rifle will shoot beyond my capabilities with correct ammo,(3 shots @200yds a Silver Dollar covers) but being 72 yrs old, disabled/handicpped I try only one shot kills and I can;t track a wounded animal. My suggestion, buy a quality standard rifle, tried and proven ammo and pratice as much as possible. Leave the new Fatties on the shelve. A 100 bucks worth of pratice ammo can make all the difference in a 5K hunt. PS Any of you guys own a (A. Uberti 6 shooter in 45? )I;m in the market for a new one with Walnut grips and 4 3/4" or 5 l/2" bbl. I;m told Stoeger is the only importer of this handgun now, mfgered in Italy. Any info will be appreciated. This handgun is suppose to be exact copy of orig. Colt peacemaker?????. I want a new side arm for Mtn hunting and I can;t handle a 44 mag. I would apreciate any info you gys have on the A Uberti. Thanks. And finally, us gun nuts only need 4 firearms; a 22 rim fire, a 25-06, a 30-06 and a 12 ga shotgun either a Auto or dble bbl.But if we only had 4 guns, the gun shops would go out of business, right? I;ll just take one of each that I like.The old Gun Slinger down south,.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

25-06 ROCKS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dumba** |H4831 I haven’t used. IMR4831 I’ve burned up tons of this stuff since I was 7. I would reduce my charge by 2 grains and rework it up using Federal 215 magnum. The reason being, I have found you can squeeze a bit more velocity and more accuracy with a hotter primer. The slower the powder, the harder to ignite it. Winchester 760 with CCI 200 I get hang fires almost every time. Switch to Federal or Winchester primers fixes the problem. For deer, any bullet would work great in the 25-06. I hope your hunts will be as memorable as my hunts!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Goly’Ge their Mr. Jeff Nelson,Weatherby sells one hell of a lot of rifles and ammo to people?What continent are these people on, Africa perhaps? Of all the places I’ve been, Marlin, Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Thompson Contender and once in a while a Savage will show up. Besides, I’ve done a lot of hunting and thinking about it, a Weatherby would have not been kneaded on all accounts. Alaska Natives use 30-30 on Grizzly, Brown (the same bear as a Grizzly) and Polar Bear. They are good at what they do and don’t waist time and effort in doing so. There far better hunters than anyone you can come up with, yet alone name!Besides, I have more fun and adventure with my 25-06 than you will ever know! By the way, have you ever shot a barrel out yet (3 barrels in 25-06, 2 barrels in 22-250) or better yet, wore a action clean out? I have!The 25-06 ROCKS!Girly Men can’t handle the 25-06!Posted by: Clay Cooper | August 16, 2007 at 07:41 PMDr. RalphWhat happened to all the Anti-Crossbow people? You would think they would be here condemning these BIG AND BAD MAGNUMS, that it's unsportsmanship to have so much of an edge on other hunters? I wonder perhaps these Magnum People are the Anti-Cross bowers themselves?Humm? Got to think this one over? They do have the same level of rage against other Sportsmen!What do you think Doc?Personally, what ever you fell comfortable and able to do the job, go for it! 700 Nitro on deer, what ever!Posted by: Clay Cooper | August 16, 2007 at 07:50 PMImagine you travel to go on a fly in hunt or some special guided hunt and your luggage comes up missing? Your ammo is gone! Your dear sweet Weatherby Ammo is GONE! O’MY! And you’re in some hellhole! Try and find the ammo you need and good luck sucker in finding it!Posted by: Clay Cooper | August 16, 2007 at 07:57 PM

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from Mike Diehl wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I hear you. I used a .30-30 in Maine for years. For eastern woodland hunting it's a great round.I'm just saying the .30-06 does more if you can afford one rifle only. It does more than the .30-30, any 6mm, the 7mm mag, or the .270, without the horrid recoil of the magnum 30cals.That's needed here in Arizona where I now live. If I ever draw a pronghorn tag a .30-30 would simply be a poor choice for the job. The .30-06 would do it (although my first choice for antelope will be, when the time comes, my .243).

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Mike Diehl what is that, the pi round or round pie? Love the 30-30... have an ancient Model 94 that my fifteen year old uses. The action is sloppy, it's rusty and the wood could use re-finishing but it's probably killed more deer than any other rifle I own. Not by me of course, but it was at least forty years old when I bought it from my old 3 tour of duty Nam vet neighbor and I know he and his son both did a lot of damage with it. It is the perfect companion for a fifteen year old in the Tennessee hills. It is small, light, carries a heck of a lot of ammo and never fails to fire.

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from Mike Diehl wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

In re the .30-30 in Alaska -- I'd say it is probably a great round for shooting seals.The best all around cartridge for "Joe Average" guys like me is the .30-06. I say "Joe Average" because I don't believe in "tack drivers" except in the hands of people who have nothing to do every day but go to the range. And I don't hand-load my rounds, so I don't spend a lifetime bejiggering the perfect load for that .314159-26 (or whatever) goofball round that someone invented a half-century ago.I shoot factory ammo. My .30-06 in my hands shoots just under 1MOA. In my dad's hands (he's 73) it shoots better. It's a factory gun shooting factory ammo and it comes in a sufficient range of bullet weights that I can find a nice spitzer boat that will do the job just right on anything I want to shoot. I can get -06 rounds that vary from 55 grains (why I'd want one that light escapes me, but Rem makes 'em) to 220 grains and most decent intervals in between.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Thuty-thuty! Still see lots of them in the woods up here; Marlins, Winchesters of course, even some of the single-shot break open NEF and HR rifles. My own Winchester M-94 is a favorite companion in the woods.SA

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Alaska natives primary rifle is the 30-30. What say YOU!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Good point Clay.Reminds me of a bit of local (Northwoods) lore regarding an older Native American hunter. Seems he went out every year and got his moose; the exact caliber varies with the version of the tale but I have heard .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .56 Spencer. He would always gut-shoot the moose so it would find its way to water where it would die, hence the hunter could just float the moose downstream to the camp rather than having to drag it. I am NOT opining that it is OK to gut-shoot any animal, by the way. My point is that regardless of exactly which cartridge he used he knew how to place his shot to get the desired result. None of the cartridges I've heard mentioned in the story are -- by today's standards -- adequate to take a moose but this man did so very regularly.It is the Indian not the arrow.SA

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from Clay Coope wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

WOW, Look at all the “Armchair Specialists” coming out of the woodwork! One of my friends in Alaska favorite rifle for Caribou is a 270 with a 130 grain bullet. Drop the Bulls just as dead as my 338 Win Mag! Reason why I carried the 338 is someone will wound a Grizz and will have to assist tracking it down. Another hunter had to have a 375 H&H for Caribou and yes it worked fine until He wounded a nice Bull ran of Taylor Mountain and knocked down three cows deader than a doornail just with one shot, good job shooter, stupid person! I told him that it’s to big of a rifle for Caribou, but he had to use it. Cost him a nice fine and suspended hunting license for the remainder of the season!This season I’m going to use my 22-250 and I will put it up against any other rifle out there. Dead is dead!My point is, there are those that lack the skill, confidence and knowledge in their ability to do something, so they think they must use a bigger hammer. The 270 is a very good rifle indeed and if someone wanted one rifle only to hunt with, this be the one of the best choices. However, for those with confidence in there ability to shoot, a 25-06 will do just a good of a job as any other rifle including Elk. That is why this season; I’m using my 22-250. For those that brag and cut down those saying they are afraid of a little kick? Lets step out to do some 600 yard shots with my Browning A-Bolt 338 Win Mag loaded with 250 Nosler partitions @2835fps and shoot 50 rounds and see if you can hit and stay up with this old man!I like to set Mark on top a 5 gallon can full of water and shoot it with a 25-06. I wonder what will happen?Silly boys, It’s the Indian, NOT THE ARROW!

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Hey, what about Marlin's .32 special?

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Mr. PetzalI meant no ill to you in the comments above.A J McClain was certainly the Gentleman's Gentleman to all, and one of the finest writers to grace the pages of any outdoor magazine.Half the fun of this Blog is the debate and the not so humble opinions. The other half is that you don't get enough ink in the magazine so we get to read more of your 'stuff' between issues.BestSA

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from Mark wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

The 270 obviously does a wonderful job for deer size game, probably better than any 6mm or .25-cal bullet, but I hardly would call a 270 the premier North American cartridge. From my personal experience I want bullet weight heavier than 130-grains for animals larger than deer and the 7mm and .30-cal cartridges fit this bill and can do it better than 270 using bullets heavier than 130-grains. It’s also my personal observation there’s not much difference between a 120-grain 25-cal bullet going 2900+ at the muzzle and the 270 130-grain bullet, or for that matter: 120-grain 6.5mm bullets.BTY if a person wants to varmint hunt with a 270 by all means do it, but I’ve yet to see a 270 than can group and is as accurate as a 25-cal, 6mm, or a 6.5mm cartridge. Why this is so escapes me, but if this observation is wrong everybody be using 270’s for varmints. Maybe 270 bullets aren’t made to close tolerances.O yes, Hydrostatic Shock?????? You gotta be kidding me. I don’t believe I’ve ever witness a more misleading term or superstitious belief on this blog. The bigger an animal is, the harder it is to kill. A bullet must get inside an animal and shed its energy quickly to kill quickly. What works well on pronghorn and deer may not work as well on an elk or moose, and visa versa. However, anything with a .338 hole or larger drilled through its vitals on this continent is dead meat.

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from Jason Hinkle wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Duplicate entry '342023' for key 1INSERT INTO board_data (id,board,author,email,subject,thread,parent,body,ip,host,datestamp,link,linkname,image,vipflag,email_replies,hide_email) VALUES ('342023','8','Bobby Flay','','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','342002','342016','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','65.54.98.109','4.174.237.217',NOW(),'','','','','','')

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from Jason Hinkle wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Duplicate entry '342023' for key 1INSERT INTO board_data (id,board,author,email,subject,thread,parent,body,ip,host,datestamp,link,linkname,image,vipflag,email_replies,hide_email) VALUES ('342023','8','Bobby Flay','','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','342002','342016','1965 Buick Wildcat===It took 20 years to find this car.','65.54.98.109','4.174.237.217',NOW(),'','','','','','')

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

This is now officially the .25-06/Cactus Jack blog. I don't like the .270 Winchester. The .270 kicks a lot harder than the 7mm-08 sorry Dave. It kicks so much harder than a .25-06 it ain't even funny. It kicks harder than my .257 Wby. Mag... check out Chuck Hawks rifle recoil table. It kicks just a little bit less than my '06 and I'll take the '06 every day of the week. O'Connor's three gun battery; .22 12ga. 30-06. The only reason he didn't fall in love with it is because mainly heavier bullets were available then and he couldn't reach out and touch them out west where he hunted like his 130 gr. .270 could. Maybe it's my imagination or the lack of recoil but it seems like all of the .25-06 rifles I have shot were really accurate. Much more so than .270's. The pre-64 Model 70 .270 may have been the perfect deer slayer but things have changed. Welcome to the twenty first century with Nosler Partitions and super accurate varmint variations of the quarter inch '06...

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from Jeff Nelson wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

After doing some work with the cartridge, I just can't see why anyone would choose the .25-06 over the .270 Win, unless they're recoil-shy. The 130 grain .270 bullet can be driven over 100 fps faster than the 120 grain .25 bullet, giving flatter trajectory and more energy. Same with the 110 grain .270 bullet versus the 100 grain .25 bullet. For varmints, the .25-06 doesn't do anything the 6mm Remington can't do equally as well with less recoil. I've concluded that the .25-06 is just about as useless as the .280 Remington. Neither cartridge is the equal of the .270 Winchester.The O'Connor bashing will never cease, but I suppose that's bound to happen when you're a dead icon. Funny that I never see as much Keith bashing, but he was a lot more "down-home" (i.e. uneducated) than Jack was, hence easier for most folks to relate to. Dave has met the man, so his opinion of O'Connor is certainly valid, but when he says that Jack bullied people who "couldn't fight back", I think that's an indictment of his adversaries' intellectual capabilities (or lack thereof). Jack O'Connor was one smart cookie, and he didn't let anyone forget it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dumba**It’s obvious you want to use a heavy grain bullet. That’s not where the knock down power of the 25-06 is. Because you’re using an Ultra High Velocity round, other factors move into play. One factor is hydrostatic shock and this balances out for less foot-pound energy using lighter bullet. Instead of hitting it with a Mac truck, you’re using a small pill at ultra high velocity causing massive damage like a bomb.Lets see? What would I recommend? First I’m going to take it for granted that your largest game is deer. The 115, 117 and 120 grain are great, but I prefer the 100 grain. The 100 grain will knock both Coyote and deer down with no problem. I never lost a deer using 100 grain bullets. Do not use Sierra because you will get bullet separation unless it’s a core-bonded bullet. At 600 yards, the 100 grain is 10 inches flatter than the 120. In a 100 grain bullet, I use Hornady 100 grain Spire Point #2540, Necked down Military Match Cases(same lot ball cases work just as fine), Federal 215 Magnum Primer and according to my Hornady reloading book third addition using IMR4831 shows 53.6 is max, but I use 55.0 and this load crony’s out at 3550 fps and the overall length is 3.120”.Now if your compelled to use heavier grain bullets, I still would recommend a 100 grain like the Nosler Partition. The beauty about the 25 caliber, that there is so many bullets available and the reason I prefer the Hornady 100 grain spire point is because the lead core is locked in, it doesn’t cost you an arm and a leg to reload for and it’s the actual load that you’ll be hunting with. You get plenty of trigger time playing with it busting critters and small rocks at long range making you a better shot when it’s hunting season. Shoot like a Pro you will!My primary bullet is a Hornady 100 grain bullet for all game, except Elk. I loaded up some 120 grain Nosler Partitions last year and shot the biggest White Tail Doe I’ve ever seen. It literally blew both sides of the shoulder out like you hit here with a bomb at 200 yards, No Joke it was nasty! I’ve shot deer with a 300 Win Mag and they didn’t do this amount of destruction. I’ve shot a lot of game in my life, but that 25-06 is one of the wicked cartridges I’ve ever come across.Remember one thing about the 25-06, it’s a ultra high velocity round your working with and that’s my Friend is where the magic of the cartridge is at. You’re using the hydrostatic shock, rather than foot-pound energy to kill. It’s the detonation of internal organs causing massive hemorrhaging, leaving one hell of a blood trail.So if your looking for a cartridge that is fun and want to shoot like a Pro, then I would recommend the 25-06 over all other cartridges. Remember, the 257 WSSM falls short of the 25-06 by 100 fps and the cost of the 257 WSSM round is $$$$$$ compared to the 25-06!One more thing, Hodgens and IMR with the same number H4895 vs IMR4895 and H4831 vs IMR4831 are/ is not the same powder and have different burning rates. Substituting one for the other can and will blow your rifle up and make your day very unhappy if you survive to tell about it!Check all loads with your reloading book before using and follow there recommended guidelines!

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from Rc Helleberg wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I have two rifles in 25-06--TC Encore with a 24 inch tube and a model 7600 Remington ---they made a special run of them--even has a factory black laminated stock---I use the Encore with 120 nosler partiton's for both mule deer and whitails and 87 grain Hornady's for coyotes and other critters--love the 7600-- for critters--both guns will shot sub-moa's all day long if you do your part--

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Clay: I'm just barely smart enough not to get into this "big bore .vs. small bore" & "Jack .vs. Elmer" debate (see above). So, back to the .25-06: I'm a big H-4831 fan but am considering trying IMR-7828 and RL-25 (the super slow stuff) with the 115 & 120 gr. Noslers. Any thoughts and load recommondations?

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from ChevJim wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Back in the late 1960s, when I was a teenager, I corresponded with Jack. He really did answer his own letters. I remember that he told me to forget having a bore chrome-plated, as Charles Askins had advised. Jack said he saw the chrome get shot out of the barrels of anti-aircraft guns. He told me that he liked the Model 70 Winchester, but wasn't "married" to any brand. I got his last book, appropriately titled, "The Last Book." He took a swipe at the big-bore advocates of the day, including our own Dave Petzal, whom Jack feared had fallen under the spell of Elmer Keith. All Jack was saying was that you didn't need a cannon for most game animals. When you read O'Connor and Keith side-by-side, you will see that they actually agreed about 90 percent of the time. According to Jack, Keith was being paid peanuts for his gun writing, while Jack was doing very well for himself. He supposedly helped Keith secure a writing job with Guns & Ammo--if I recall correctly. I think we all owe Jack a lot. He showed us that you don't have to lug around a big-bore magnum and absorb punishing recoil in order to successfully hunt most North American game--or even similar game in Africa. He emphasized marksmanship and shot placement over kinetic energy and the size of the hole in one's muzzle. By doing so, Jack helped to keep the gun manufacturers honest. He also drove more than one nail into the coffin of that abomination, the post-1964 Model 70 Winchester. It was Jack who taught me to appreciate the beauty of firearms--whether it was a handsome factory sporter or a custom rifle. Now, as to the small vs. large caliber debate, here we have Dave Petzal singing the praises of the .25-06. Back in the 1970s, I'd venture to say that Dave favorite pronghorn rifle was probably a .300 magnum or larger. Now I'll bet that Dave doesn't see the need for all of that extra horsepower. But lest anyone accuse me of being one of Jack's unquestioning disciples, let me say that I haven't owned a .270 since 1971--and that I'd take a .30/06 over a .270 any day of the week. That said, there is evidence suggesting that the .30/06 was Jack's hands-on favorite, too!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dumba**I prefer calibers of the 06 class. Plenty of 270 and 30-06 to reform cases from! Believe it of not, I’ve have taken 300 Win Mag cases and reformed them to 338 Win Mag. Works great, but after about the 3’rd or 4th reload the neck would split. What the hell, they were free! I also use 7mm Rem Mag cases also and it’s really funny to shoot a 5 gallon bucket with another shooter with a 7mm Rem Mag and they want to know where did I get the explosive bullets from. All I show them is the 7mm Rem Mag stamp of the case. They don’t know that there reformed 338 Win Mag and really is a hoot to watch them try to chamber one!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I've shot more deer with my 25-05 than all my other rifles combined! I'm toying with the idea of using my 338 Win Mag loaded with a Hornady 225 grain SST @ 3000fps this deer season, but that really sounds sadistic?

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Clay: 6.5x.284 is your answer, too bad it's still a wildcat. Use a long action so 120gr. & up can be seated no deeper than base of the neck. Those medium to heavy 6.5 bullets have unbelieveable SD. It started out as a long range target round, but it's also a superb deer/goat round with 120 and up bullets. Don't kick much, either.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I would like to see a 264-06/6.5-06 on the market. Now that would be a real good deer rifle!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Ok Dr Ralph, I know you and a few others been waiting for me to come on line on the 25-06.Where do I start? The 25-06 is one of the best cartridges ever made.My 25-06, I’ve worn the barrel out 3 times and yes I do shoot that much.I have a 22-250, 25-06 and 30-06 but I love that 25-06 and it’s my #1 deer rifle.You can load bullets from 75 grain @ 3700fps that are 22-250 velocities, great for Jackrabbits and coyotes to 120 Grain @ 3000 FPS for Caribou and Elk.Lets start, the 25-06 is the smallest cartridge recommended for Elk. Imagine that! With a 120 grain Nosler Partition at 3000 fps you will get complete pass thru and literally blow both shoulders out of the largest deer. I would prefer a 100 grain bullet for deer. If you cross the performance of 270 with a 22-250, you’ll have a 25-06. The 257 WSSM believe it or not 100 feet per second slower than the 25-06 and I’ll pick the Quarter Pounder (my rifles nickname and a 25 cent coin group at 200 yards) 25-06 over the 257 WSSM any day, WHAT A JOKE THE 257 WSSM IS!Shooting the 25-06 is really sweet! You get the range, the required knock down power and no kick compared to a magnums that will just clean your plow every time you pull the lanyard on that cannon!If you like a recommended rifle that will take every thing from jackrabbits to Elk, the 25-06 is one of my best choices! Of course with Elk, you must place your shot carefully, but this is where the magic of the 25-06 comes in. It lets the novice shooter, shoot like a PRO, NO JOKE! With hardly any kick, there is no flinch factor and you can concentrate 100 % on the shot!WA Mtnhunter you never herd of a 264 Win Mag one of the flattest shooting Commercial Magnum cartridges? The reason the 264 Win Mag never really came to be a big player is because of its barrel life. It’s one of the flattest commercially made cartridges at 1000 yards. If I were a Gun Manufacturer, I would explore better metals for making a superior barrel to handle the heat generated by this very fine cartridge. The 264 Win Mag is next on my list! 85 grain bullets @ 3700fps to 160 @2900 makes it a real Hunters Rifle!Clay’s bottom line!I have shot every caliber at magnum velocities on the market with 45 years of competition and hunting under my belt. This is my bottom lin, if you want a cartridge that has the range, the knock down power and want to shoot like a Pro? The 25-06 is your #1 choice, Period! It’s the ultimate Youth and Women’s rifle. Better than a 243 hands down! Easy on the pocket book, you will get a lot of service out of this cartridge and it’s a blast to shoot.I remember my hunts in New Mexico, Paul Turner, George Krug and Mac Thompson would be shooting at a critter at long range. I would wait until the criiter gets beyond their range. They would hear a crack, boom, see the critter blowing up and the detonation pop of the impact of the bullet. Then one of them would yell out, Clay I think you gottem!Not recommended for shooting Turkeys at 400 yards! YUCK!

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from Lyn wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

.25-06, .270, 7mm-08---own them all, love them all. The 25-06 and 7mm-08 are noticably lighter in recoil vs. the .270. Difference on deer sized game is negliglble given reasonable range. Depends on what type of terrain I'm hunting, but most times I reach for my Browning A-bolt composite stalker in 7mm-08----speaks softly and knocks stuff flat.

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from David wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

HmmShould I get a 308 or a 25-06??

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from R Adams in Wyoming wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

For over 20 years in Texas plains & Brush Country the wife & I hunted occasionally. She carried a 25/06 Remington 700 BDL (made about 1970 impressed checkering)& loved it. I carried my Custom '03 Springfield Remington Action Shilen Stiff Barrel 30/06 (8.6 lb scoped).I'm almost to retire now up here in the thinner air & am getting some arthritis. The 25/06 is not with us; so a replacement is needed. Should we BOTH get new .270's balancing range effectiveness vs. gun weight/recoil ?

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To Gablesadovsky: I would get the T3.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Silver Arrow-You are correct, sir. Most of the opinions expressed are not very humble, mine included. I shan't use IMHO again! I mean no disrespect for Cactus Jack. Just because he was as ass doesn't mean he was not a great man. George S. Patton....?".35 Whelan" is properly spelled ".35 Whelen". Townsend W. spelled his name that way, although "a" is a common spelling for the name.Does the .25-06 really do a better job than the .257 Roberts at moderate ranges? I get near-.25-06 velocity with handloads. Almost all the .257 Roberts factory loads are anemic.Ralph the Rifleman -Ah, the .358 Winchester. Talk about killing like the 'Hammer of Thor'! My old 99 in .358 is a favorite for timber hunting.

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from David wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Yo Bro Mr 25-06 Man Good read

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from Tom wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Very good commentary on the .25-06. Except...Charles Newton was the originator, not Neidner. However, Neidner promoted it, and is usually given credit for it, whereas Newton dropped it, in favor of his .256 Newton which is the '06 necked to6.5, instead of .25 cal.But Newton was first.Best regards,Tom

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To fgrant: The Sheridan Inn - thank you, sir. You're a gentleman and a scholar. And I stand behind the "superb steaks and the pork chop is almost better than sex" comment. If you're ever in Sheridan, give it a try. Best food in town, and I've tried them all. If you want to visit a true "old west saloon", head to the Mint Bar on Main Street. It's a classic. The "heads" and old photos alone are worth the visit. Thanks again.

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from gablesadovsky wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dave,I cant decide which to purchase--I am looking at either the Tika T3 Hunter or the Ruger 77 Mark II (or if I cant find one the new Hawkeye)in .338 Win Mag. Let me know what you think.

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from Mark wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Ditto’s and Kudo’s on the 25-06. I don’t know of many cartridges based on the ’06 that haven’t made it in some shape, form, or another.People who have done more ambitious hunting, and writing, than I say O’Connor became a game hog in his age. These folks claim O’Connor made too many Sheep Grand Slams and took poor heads on his later sheep hunts. However, the guy had the field hunting experience and did it in wild country.Writing and Expert—When I was just starting out I hung on O’Connor’s every word, but as I gained field experience along with shooting and loading experience I had the opinion O’Connor had his favorites and prejudices in rifles and shotguns…that he could write very well about. I thought most his ideas on shotguns and shotgunning were horrible and real bush league. I think O‘Connor defined the custom rifle criteria superbly.Point: Do a lot of reading by different authors to get a more complete picture of this sport

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I should have mentioned that I had this rifle built in 1972 and it continues to print five-shot groups of 1" to 1-1/4" at 100 yds.

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago
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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I had a .25/06 built on a Finnish Sako action, Sako barrel and French walnut stock by Reinhart Fajen. I still have an old 6X Redfield scope on it, and the rifle has taken dozens of deer and pronghorns in North Dakota, Wyoming and Montana. It is undoubtedly my favorite rifle for pronghorns. I use 120-gr. Speer Spitzers and 120-grain Nosler Partitions ahead of 55 grs. of H-4831.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Where are you Clay? This is your baby... I don't have a lot of experience with the 25-06 but my brother in law did shoot one deer with his when we were hunting together. He was using Nosler Ballistic Tip hand loads and the entrance hole looked just like an exit hole. The whole shoulder of the deer was blown out right where he hit it. My only guess is that the bullet was going really fast (he is notorious for dangerous hand loads and he too was using the Ruger No.1 so that falling block can withstand a lot of pressure) and exploded on impact with the shoulder. Either way it was dead less than 10 yards away.As for O'Connor I have to agree with the bully part, but we all know he was a hard man to get along with just from his books. If you disagreed with him you were wrong and an idiot and that was that. I still love him...

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from fgrant wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

The steak house in Sheridan is the Sheridan Inn - old hotel where Buffalo Bill used to audition acts on the front lawn.Located on 5th street, one block east of Main St.

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To Silverarrow: O'Connor has no greater fan than I, but he habitually picked--hard--on people who couldn't fight back. Just out of meanness, and because he could.Al McClane, our late and much-missed fishing editor, was an even greater figure in his world than O'Connor was in his, and no nicer man ever drew breath. An unfailing gentleman--to everyone, large and small.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Being a shotgun and bow hunter my first 20 years in the field, I didn't get my first big game rifle until the 1977, a Winchester Mod 70 in 25-06. I didn't know much about the cartridge but it came highly recommended from a knowledgable neighbor (editor for American Hunter) so I took the leap. I never regretted it.An excellent all-around cartridge made even better with todays bullet designs.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Funny thing; the normally super-wary Tom Turkey will come literally running when a more dominant Tom has been shot. Run right out into the kill zone to kick and otherwise punish the fallen superior. Sometimes I think we humans have the same instinct. As I recall one did not disparage Cactus Jack while he was able to do something about it. He was the most influential gun-scribe of his time and jealously guarded that influence -- if that made him a bully so be it. Pompous? Not really; he did talk big, but he walked big too. He didn't suffer the fool at all well but would take the time to explain a point to a neophyte. His favorite insult was to snort, loudly, and say (also loudly) "Hell, man, Eleanor can shoot better'n you do!" Eleanor of course was Mrs. O'Connor -- and yes she could shoot a durn sight better'n many.I am not nominating him for Sainthood but give Jack O'Connor his due respect.

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from Curious wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I am looking for a semi-auto shotgun that doesn't cost a fortune, but is reliable. I will mainly use it in the dove field. I saw the Remington SPR453 but don't know much about it. Any suggestions?

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Dave: Glad to finally see some good press on the .25-06. My Montana rancher friend highly recommended it for deer & goats when I first started hunting "Big Sky" country 30+ years ago and it was great advice. It's still my "go to" rifle every time I head West. Can't beat the 120 gr. Nosler Partition over H-4831. Kills like the Hammer of Thor. Keep thinking about trying IMR-7828 and RL-25 behind that Nosler, but then then figure "If it ain't broke........" And by the way, at the risk of starting WWIII again, give my regards to your friend JZ. I miss his writing. Hope he's doing OK. And the next time you're in Sheridan, WY, be sure and have dinner at that Steakhouse over by the old Steam Locomotive. Superb steaks and the pork chop is almost better than sex. Damnit, I can't remember the name of the place - it's hell gettin old. Then again, can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning, so I shouldn't feel too bad... Ask around, the locals will point you in the right direction.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

What about cartridges which are seeing renewed interest? Think .405 Win, .35 Whelan (although that one we have pretty well hacked through), .264 Win Mag, .225 Win Mag, 6mm Rem, and did someone mention a new weapon chambered in .17 Rem?I'd opine that a particular cartridge fades away from lack of wide spread investment in rifles for it, however wonderfully it performs. The proprietary Savage rounds, the Ackley Improved bunch, a multitude of metric numbers from around the globe. They never achieve enough investment in this country.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

IMHO = In My Humble OpinionHard to figure out because most of the opinions are hardly humble!Have to say I wondered about the omission of the .25-06 from your list in the magazine. Along with the .30-06, .270 Win and .30-30 ammo for it is likely to be found at any crossroads country store in game country; not so for the 7mm-08. Just another reason to choose it.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

The .25/06 is a sweet cartridge for sure--thanks for honoring it Dave.My dying cartridge for discussion is the .358 Winchester.

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from Michael wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

Mr. Petzel,I wondered if a category that didn't appear in the cartridge guide was "woods rifle" cartridges? What might be the top ones there? Or should people just get semi autos chambered in your suggestions for all-around cartridges?Michael

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

To All: Dying cartridges sounds like a good idea. I think it would work better on the blog than in the magazine, but we shall see.To Sam Iacabone: The 7mm/08 kicks a little ligher than the .270, but to tell the truth, it's hard to notice the difference. The 270 has it all over the 7mm/08 for shooting at long range (300 yards plus) and that is the one I'd go with.To Wa MTN Hunter: You left out bully. He was superb at it. Also, what does IMHO mean?

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from Matt in MN wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I like PbHead's idea! Let's have an article or at least a blog on fading cartidges. I just bought an old 99 in .300 Savage and would like to hear your thoughts Dave!

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from sam iacobone wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

i am looking to purchase a rifle for mostly deer but want the ability for all around game. i was told either the 7mm 08 or the 270 win. which do you prefer? which has a lighter recoil yet better range?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

DaveI took your Gun Nut Hard Quiz and got 14 of 15, so it wasn't THAT hard! What is a two diameter bullet for the .264 Win Mag? Never heard of that before.Also, IMHO, O'Connor was an excellent writer but somewhat of an elitist and pompous ass. If he was so righteous in his ramblings, we would all be using a .270 Win.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 35 weeks ago

I enjoyed your cartride guide article. How about an article on good cartidges that are fading away for no good reason? My vote would be for the 250 Savage.

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