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First Look: The Browning X-Bolt and Winchester Model 70

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October 26, 2007

First Look: The Browning X-Bolt and Winchester Model 70

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

Winchester Model 70. Yes, it’s back, and no it’s not made in Japan.  U.S. Repeating Arms’ FN Manufacturing plant in Columbia, S.C., will produce this American classic along with the rifles it currently makes for the military. This new Model 70 is still the “Rifleman’s Rifle” that so many shooters missed when it ceased production last year, but there are some notable improvements.

M70_closeupFirst, the trigger is the new “M.O.A Trigger System,” which is marketingspeak for a completely redesigned three-lever trigger. Like the X-Bolt, it was very fine, with zero creep. It is factory set at 3 ¾ pounds and ranges from 3 to 5 pounds.

The other big improvement on this gun is its accuracy. Some of the guns coming out of the Connecticut factory toward the end of the original Model 70’s run were downright awful, and Winchester is very serious about correcting that problem. The barrels are hammer forged, and the goal is 1-MOA accuracy for 3-shot groups. All of the new Model 70s I shot in Quebec were very accurate. The 3-position safety, stock styling, and ejector are all classic Model 70.

The rifle will come in several versions including: Super Grade, Featherweight Deluxe, Sporter Deluxe, and Extreme Weather SS models. Prices from $1,000 to $1,200.

70_bull

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from B Shupe wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

I just spoke to a Customer Service Representative at Winchester again and he said the Super Grade is scheduled to be available in stores around the end of November and early December '08.

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from B Shupe wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I just spoke to a Customer Service Representative at Winchester and he said the Super Grade should be available in stores around the middle of November '08.

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from Lee wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

First the new Winchester firearms are made and assembled in Columbia, SC. Not overseas, period. Only time will tell though whether they will sell. They were supposed to ship early last month but I still have yet to see one and it's almost August. They're really going to need to get them into the gun stores in time for hunting season or this year will be pretty much a loss.

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from Darryl wrote 5 years 40 weeks ago

I'm very pleased that the Winchester name is staying in the rifle business and that the 70 is still here! I have 2, one is my 243 deer rifle (made in'73)and is a beautiful rifle and shoots like it. The other is an action only (began life as a late model 270) that I'm building into a match rifle. I have 2 Winchester Model 52's myself and 4 in the family. If you're unfamiliar with this rifle, it was the BADDEST 22lr on the planet for 50years. One of my 52's is an 18lb target rifle fired at 200 yards in competition and the other is a sporterized custom from the first year of production(1920). The Match rifle is sub 1/4MOA and the sporter is sub 1/2 MOA. I know that Winchester made cuts in assembly and fit and finish in the later years, but their metallurgy and design are top notch. Several of the gun writers back in the '60s really hurt winchester's reputation with comments about the fit and finish of the m70 (argueably not unfounded) but these fit and finish problems were solved in a few years and it became prettier than it ever was pre'64. I agree with one writer who said that the pre'64 rifles "look old". the shape of the stock just isn't what it became in the '70's. (long live the Monte Carlo shaped piece of Walnut!!!! free float it, bed it, and not only will it shoot beautifully but any piece of wood looks better than all that Plastic!!!) the push feed action is stronger and a more accurate design than the pre'64 as well. I hope that the Winchester rifles all come back, I'm probably dreaming, but the 94, the 52, and of course the 70 should all be alive and well. In their respective classes, they were always Top of the Heap.DPS

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from Dom wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

270 Winchester vs 270 WSMIf you are debating between either of these there's something to keep in mind.If you buy factory ammunitionthe Velocity,Energy and bullet drop ratings are tested with a 24" barrel.Most 270 winchester barrels are 22" - 23" long, not the 24" of the test barrels, so actual velocity is going to be off by approximately 25fps per inch. This will impact energy and bullet drop accordingly so check the barrel length.270WSM rifles all come with 24" barrels so off the shelf ammunition should perform as advertised.I've also noticed a trend with ammunition manufacturers in that they are downloading the 270 Winchester, even conservative handloads can outperform factory ammunition. I'm assuming the "official reason" for this is that they are downloading this cartridge because of the age of some 270 Winchester rifles.Or it could be because they want a wider performance gap to the 270WSM.Keep in mind that if you travel some countries will only allow factory ammunition- not handloads across their borders.

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from Dom wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

There's a few questions I'd like to answer on here.First- the new model 70 Extreme Weather will have a full length aluminum bedding block and it's a Bell and Carlson stock (Medalist version) so there's no worries about flexy stocks here.I've had two Sako 75 Stainless rifles in 270WSM- neither one has fed reliably and both ejected cases into the bottom of my scope. I tried another magazine $110- that didn't solve the feeding issue. It was also only shot 6MOA groups- tried handloads and every box of 270WSM on the market, (except Black hills). So I sent it back to Beretta. They sent me a completely new rifle.This one also didn't feed reliably and also ejected cases into the bottom of my scope. I tried Warne and Sako's stock rings- it didn't make a difference.I've talked to other that have had no problems with their Sako's but my luck has been so bad I'm trading this one in for a Winchester.

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from Hans Kirkman wrote 6 years 14 weeks ago

Which .270 to buy?I will be using the rifle for deer 90% of the time and elk 10%. It will most likely be the only hunting rifle I have so I want to be able to use for both. Price isn't huge, the biggest concern I have is quality and accuracy. It will become an extension of my body so it needs to last.Any advice is appreciated.

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from Del in Kansas wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hans Kirkman,If the approximately $1000 price tag is not too much for the budget the Kimber Model 8400 classic stands head and shoulders above the others. Every Kimber I have seen had nice wood, good fit and finish and was accurate. My 2506 came right out of the box with a 3 lb trigger pull with no creep or overtravel. Just remember to put a quality scope and rings on whatever you buy. You did not say what you will hunt with the gun but if it is deer the 2506 has less recoil and will kill them just as dead as any 270.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hans Kirkman:The new Ruger Hawkeye has received very good reviews and its a very nice looking rifle! Apparently, they just announced that this rifle will be available as a lefty. As such, I will definitely look into it. I had my heart set on a Sako, but the ones I was watching disappeared before I could act. Being left-handed, the choices sometimes are slim, especially when you want a certain caliber.Also, in another Dave Petzal Blog, someone wrote that had bought something on one of the gunsites, paid for the item, but had not received it. Internet shopping for something like a high dollar rifle scares the crap out of me.YooperJack

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from Hans Kirkman wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

I'm looking for wisdom and advice. I will be purchasing a .270 this March and am looking for recommendations and why. I've had and liked a Sako in the past but am hearing much about Savage and Browning...what is the most recommended make of all, for the dollar? Probably like asking which is better Ford or Chevy...

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from JKeene wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

I hope that the new M70s are as good as the Classics from the 90s. I also hope that they come in left hand configurations. If so, I will buy a few more especially if they make a short action version chambered for standard cartridges not WSMs.Next, Big Al, I agree with you on Savage actions being rough. First, clean all the manufacturing debris out of them. That generally helps a lot. Next, on a cold winter night with nothing to do but sit in front of the tube, sit and work the action while you do. If you feel brave, put a little polishing compound on the action when you do. Save you a few bucks doing so.Jim

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from Big Al wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Has anyone but me noticed that Savage bolt action rifles simply do not cycle as smoothly as Remingtons, Brownings, Sakos, and so on? Accuracy is terrific, I like Savage rifles, but the actions are a little harder to work than others. They defintiely do not have a "smooth as butter" action. I sent my Savage to Sharp Shooters in Delphos, Ohio, and they smoothed the action out beautifully!

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from T.Bertram wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

I have a 97 M 70 in featherweight that is good to fit and finish, shoots 150s very well' but have seen some real wrecks sudsequent to it, one really did look like sabotage.All this talk about youth calibers and light recoil, .243 is for expert shooters ie .410 shotguns, a nice .260 Rem or 7mm08 are much better and for my picks excell over the 25-06.

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from Triton wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Okay I have to ask. The above article also is about a new Browning X-bolt introduction.I understand why the Winchester announcement has your attention but why is there no discussion about the Browning. When I read forums it seems that the comments center around Remingtons. I guess by question is, what is wrong with the A-bolt that I can never find a definative answer for. For example...ie...I understand about winchester quality being lost due to corporate ignorance and greed, or Ruger cast recievers, but what is the negative issues with A-bolts?

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from timmy wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

i love feild and stream

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

For those questioning the asking prices of M70 XTR's in .257 R, check GunBroker. bids up to $775, asking $1200.

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from Me wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

Well, seeing as how I can get a X-Bolt for 50% off retail since I work at a dealer for them I'm going to do so. I can get a X-Bolt Medallion for $475 which in my opinion is a heck of a deal. I'm sure it will shoot like a dream. Now just to pick a caliber...

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

I know the Winchester M70 Featherweight XTR's are not as esteemed as the much touted pre - 64. The one I have is very well done with nary a stray machine mark or blemish in the wood. It is also a tack driver. I doubt that I'll part with it anytime soon. Maybe I have been falsely led by the digital gun brokers.

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from Rocky Mt Hunter wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

Have not seen teh new Model Winc. 70, so will hold my opinion till I do so. Many of the factory built firearms with Syn stocks can have teh fit and looks improved witha little filling and sandpaper. That put-togethr rib on back side wher the mold came together can re removed with a tad of filling, then put a coat of flat=black or liwuid shoe polish over the sanding, you can neversee again.But with a little elbow greese, the stock cn be made to fit the action much better, same applies to wood.With wood, file to fit teh metal and then use a very thin shim between the wood and metal, a tad shorter than the wood or metal adn guarantee teh wood will never split from over oiling and standing in the safe corner. I jut bought a Semi-cistom gun, anf about 2 hrs it look all together different, like it was suppose to look. On a Savage, with the 2 screws into Alum, when you fill the syn stock to fit the metal, those screws will pull the stock against the stock and metal . It works guys,. but a tad of work involved. A good cold, snowy job this winter when you crying over the missed deer you let get by. I;m buying one more Turk Mauser to sporterize and will leave the bbl as is. Will have rechambered to a 338, bolt jeweled and bolt bent and spoon shaped. All the metal from the bbl to stock will be buffed to the white and keep oiled, after a nonrust preventive paste applied and buffed in.Will stock with a Boyds Laminatedstock in Blk/Grey. Not a arm/leg expense, but will give me a job this winter, and a great long range rifle for Elk next fall, if able to go. ALso, will enstall a Gentry safety and set the trigger at 3 lbs. A 29" bbl is long, but the way I hunt is mostly sit, teh extra length only enhances my ability for a long distance shot. I;m from the old school, that the longer bbl does have a advantage. As all my present huntin guns carry 24 and 26" bbls regardless fo caliber. Why do the Varmite guns have a longer bbl than a Deer bbl.????

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from O Garcia wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

If the Belgians are going to oversee the Model 70 production, we should be able to sleep soundly at night. FN had a long association with John Browning, and aside from making the Hi-Power pistol, they (FN) are also responsible for the FAL, the best of the 1950's 7.62x51mm rifles (the others being the M14 and the H&K G3).For a country that was pretty much neutral from the end of the Napoleonic Wars to the end of WW2 (they're part of NATO now), Belgium has a pretty robust arms industry. It must be a "neutral country" trait, the Swedes and the Swiss make pretty good guns, too.Well, it's nice to see the Model 70 back.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

A Remington CDL or XCR doesnt have the features a model 70 has so its only natural a 70 would cost more.Ditto Weatherbys, although with them your paying for a name and a gawd awfull stock.....BTW a shill bid is when the person selling the gun has freinds or uses alternate identities to bid up the guns. If you watch the sights many of the same guns are for sale/auction over and over.To get a pulse of what your guns going for check out for sale sections of sites like 24hourcampfire or accurate reloading.I think what you will find is very few XTR's going for anywhere close to $1000. The XTR isnt a bad gun by any meens its just not as desirable as say a early to mid 90's classic.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Perhaps they are shill bids, whatever that is. Most are starting prices. I don't look every day. Guns America is a listing , not an auction to my knowledge. So maybe the guy who offered me $850 for mine was just kidding. I'm suppose some of the proces I saw reflected the buying frenzy following the closure announcement. Once their mediocre guns go back into production, prices will drop I'm sureI'd darn sure not pay $900 for a Remington CDL or XCR when I could pony up a few more bucks and get another Weatherby Mk V.

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from b.walker@voyager.net wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I believe the $900-1000 XTR's on Gunbroker are shill bids.A much more desirable early model classic will very rarely go for that much and only then if its on a rare chambering like a 300 weatehrby or is a supergrade.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Dr. Ralph and others: I;ve stated many times the Savage is a great firearm, quality material, shoots well and to point of sight. Now with the Walnut Stock they have come out with, the gun equals any Winchester to be made again. I do believe Savage has gone un-noticed or not really pumped up as the Rem.Winch.Whby, etc. For the money, you cannot beat a USA made firearm, such as the Savage. My complaint with the Vanguard is that stamp on the bbl made in JAPAN. Also, Savage sells more 22's than all the other Co's combined. I do plan on another firearm prior to my next trip to the Rockies and It will be a Savage in 270, Walnut Stock, Accutrigger. Not that I don;t like my 700's, I do prefer them, but now $$$$ enters the picture and for the $$$ Savage cannot be beat, and I feel with a quality scope it will perform as well as I;m able to shoot.At AGE 72, I'M NOT LOOKIGN FOR A LONG TERM FIREARM ANYMORE, JUST ONE THAT 1 CAN AFFORD AND one that will shoot as well as I;m able to shoot. My long Mtn climbs are over, now its find a trail, have a seat and enjoy the scenery and pray a quality, shootable animal comes by in your range of perfection. Have a good season, pratice a lot and buy more USA mfgered firearms.( Be careful of gun parts made in other countries). Be careful of it saying assembled in USA. That is not a USA made firearm, just the China, JApan parts shipped here and put together by cheap labor here.I want my gun, all of it, made in the USA.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Remington CDL list $907- available in eight standard calibers and two Ultra Mags. .243 to .35 Whelen... BDL's for $877-... Weatherby Vanguard fifteen calibers from .223 to .338 $525- guarantee minute and a half groups, walnut stock model $712-... Savage with accu-trigger $539- The only reason to buy an experimental Winchester Model 70 "Rifleman's Rifle" is the unique stock that so many fell head over heels in love with. It is a statement. It is a man driving a '63 Corvette with that split window and an ear to ear grin you couldn't wipe off with a 2X4...

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Bubba: Thanks for verifying what I;ve been trying to get across to the guys on this Blog for many months. A W-W firearm is not the same quality as for your local, long in business gun shop. WW tells the mfgers the # of certain firearms they want and what they will pay for them. So, the sales Rep for the mfger feathers his monthly commision check by having the mfgering dept to make a firearm as cheap as possible and then ship AS IS to WW. Any firearm I plan to use myself, I want the best quality I can get. So I spend a few extra dollars and get a first class firearm that has been checked out from A to Z. Granted, you may now and then get a firearm from WW that performs ok, lucky you. Try to take it back afer 90 days and see what problem you run into. It's yours, do the best you can with the mfger or a local gun-smith. There is a big difference in quality and quanity. Also, never, never buy a firearm sight un-seen from anyone, even your local dealer. I did just that and now the firearm is in limbo as to what the Dealer, Mfger, importer will do. I'm of the opinion its mine as is.Quality, pride in workmanship and trust has long gone out the window. It;s a dog eat dog world now. $$$ an cents run this country, Sad, but very true.Also, never purchase a firearm from anyone that they tells you it's a special run and on sale for a limited time at that price. Most Mfges will special run a few as l00 of the same fiearm and make as cheap as possible, cut evry corner they can. Cheap metal,un-matched wood, lousy SYN stocks and triggers like a Auto jack.Bolts that need a tube of graphite to slide the bolt into the chamber, extractors that you need pliers to remove shot shell.Then, pray you still have your eyes after shooting. Yep, I;m PISSED as trusted this Dealer on a firearm, and he let me down. My fault,but his also.Can bet the word is traveling on his behalf.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Talked recently with a gent that worked in Wally-World ware house for a period of time. He had done some gunsmithing so know how to handle the paperwork, so they assigned him there.According to him, Wally-World, a year in advance, buys x number of firearms at a set price. These are what they call straight-run guns. They are delivered to Wally-World just as they came off the assembly line with no QA adjustments or corrections. If the bolt doesn't close smoothly, a screw was butchered, a hole not tapped, stock does not fit properly, whatever, WM accepts them and sells them to the public, "AS IS"!If your gun has a problem, they replace it and ship the other off where it is corrected and sold to another store, (NOT WM) at a reduced cost.Knew a guy that bought a Win Mod. 70 from WM. When he reported it stolen 3 years later, he was almost arrested for possessing a stolen rifle! When the dust cleared, WM had written down the wrong serial number for his gun, the number on his gun showed to have been stolen from a WM in another town.To sell to WM, at their price, they cut some corners. In WM's case, it just happens to be QA.Bubba

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Just one point on older actions used for custom rifles. The pre-war Model 70s sometimes had too much sulfur in the steel used in the receivers. No other personage than Dick Casull served as an expert witness in a case where a modified Model 70 blew up. Winchester claimed the modification was to blame, but Casull did a metalurgical analysis, and showed that the high sulfur content had made the metal brittle. I think the conversion was from .257 Roberts to .270 Winchester. Also, there are old Mauser actions used for .308 Winchester and magnum cartridges, and the old Mausers were designed to work around 46,000 pounds per square inch (psi) pressures, and NOT the 55,000 - 70,000 generated by many modern cartridges. So, you might have a custom Mauser sporter that is valued around $5,000, but it's an accident waiting to happen. What I want to see is guns showing fine craftsmanship like in the old days, but with modern steels--that would be the best of both worlds!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

BenCheck Guns America and Gunbroker dot com. XTR featherweights in .257 Roberts, 7x57, etc. have been selling for $900 - $1,000. I paid $425 for mine a couple of years ago in LNIB condition.I'll take all the early XTR's in LNIB condition you can find for $400! And I don't particlarly like Winchesters!Other Posters:Is there realy a difference between a low end rifle at Wal-Mart and one sold elsewhere? Or, are the finish grades of rifles sold at Wally World just aimed at the customer base and what they will spend for a rifle?

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Chev. Jim. Good for you.I also agree that I want my best shooting rifles to look the part, Nice and functional. Do agree however, if I were hunting in severe foul weather the syn stocks/ss bbls with floor plate have their place. Here we go again, but I;ve tried to tell many guys on this Blog, that Wal-mart carries a special built to their specks firearm that is not the real gun dealers carry. I bought one of the 70 WSM's from them due to price, My axe looked a lot bettr and did function a lot better. It soon found a new Home, replaced by a New Remington. I just hope Remington don;t fall in same trap as Winchester did and start cutting corners to sell cheap built guns.Wal-mart has taken guns out of l000 stores to date and more to go. To me the Savage is a far better firearm than a Winchester, but I don't like the claw extractor period and I have a Custom built 06 with a Mauser action ,plus one other sporterized Turk Mauser 8 mm. Neither go with me out West on a serious high $ hunt. Someday,. some guy with lots of Money and pockets on fire will offer me enough that both the Mausers will go with him. In the intrium, I will just use my 700's and bring home the bacon. Why pray tell is the pre 64 such a better firearm than a post 64. If I;m gonna go with a new Custom built gun, I sure want new parts not 50 yr or more used stuff. My Mausers, especially the Turk is over 75 yrs old and the Custom who knows how old the action is. Just wish the action could be changed out to a Remington 700 with out costing a ton of $. The wood on the custom is worth several $$$$$ dollars, plus the dble set triggers. O well, its in the Vault, not going away yet. Read a interesting article last night about a guy built a 44 special on a old style flat top Black-hawk 357 mag with 4-5/8" bbl and Ram horns for grips. Only 7 of those were built SS-l thru SS-7 are the S#'s. But my A.Uberti is better built i think in 45 LC. O well, we all got our favorits, and thats great for business. Just wish had the extra $ for all the firearms and hunting trips I want. Shoot often and straight.

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I absolutely hated those "Wal-Mart" Model 70s that had the blind magazine boxes. I do not like to unload a rifle by cycling all of the ammmo through the action! Besides that, they were just plain ugly. I never bought one of those rifles. I much preferred to go to a regular gun shop and get something a little more "upscale." A rifle should provide some pride of ownership. If it looks like a plastic coated crowbar, it might still work after a fashion but it will not be a pleasure to carry or shoot. We accept cheapness in so many areas of our lives--but guns are where I draw the line. I cannot afford a Purdey or Holland and Holland double, but I'm fussy about what I CAN afford!

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from MattG wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I meant cheap Model 70 Wal-Mart specials.

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from MattG wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

The problem with Model 70's as I see it, was the fac that there were so many "cheap Wal-Mart specials". I have a '02 Mod 70 Featherweight in .270 Win and a '05Featherweight in .300 WSM. Clean cut checkering, shnabel (sp?) fore grip, nice fit and best of all, sub MOA in both rifles. The above pic of the 70 featherweight looks good.

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from ben wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Winchester's on the used market can be had very resonably. A 85 XTR wont go for much over $400 from what I have seen. A early Classic sells for around $700 wtih newer clasics going for $5-600.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

My comments on the new M70 from Winchester. I have a M70 XTR Featherweight circa 1985. The fit and finish is impeccable and it shoots 1 MOA with my handloads, which are the only .257 Roberts ammo I shoot. The trigger is out of the box and a little stiff, but otherwise fine for a hunting rifle. It is in the safe since the value has gone sky high on New Haven Winchesters on the used market. I have 2 older M700 rifles (.308 & .35 Whelen) that will shoot less than MOA with most ammo. Both are bedded and free floated. My Weatherby Mk V will shoot MOA with a few loads, most notably 180 gr A-Frames and 165 gr Triple Shocks.Those new M70's had better beat that or stay under the porch. One of the guys in our hunting group missed 3 elk and a deer last week with 2 different Winchesters. Boy howdy did he catch crap for that. Whether it was him or the rifles, the blame was slanted toward the Winchesters and the reputation they have enjoyed (?) the past few years. I think I will keep my one and only M70 and spend any spare $1000 bills on a Weatherby.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I'm going to stick with my Remington's. Tried and proven! I do own a Browning A-Bolt in 338 Win Mag that shoots like a house on fire!

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I know a LOT of firearms use investment cast frames and receivers, and I know what they say about maintaining high quality, but I don't want any more of them. The grain structure in an investment cast arm is totally different from one that is forged, and the bottom line is that you have to pile more metal onto an investment cast frame or receiver to make it as strong as a forged one. The very best actions are milled from heat treated bar stock--pre-heat treated so there's no warpage involved with the finished product. Ruger receivers don't come out of those molds straight--they begin warping and have to be beaten straight with a hammer. Maybe that's why you don't see any winning target rifles built on Ruger actions. One of these days I'm going to get an Ed Brown pistol, because I don't want investment cast frames or slides, and I don't want MIM parts on something I'll be staking my life on. It's one thing for an investment casting or MIM part to break at the range, but it's quite another when you're in a firefight. If I had been a policeman and that Dan Wesson had let go in a duel with the bad guys, I'd have been in a lot of trouble! The extractor on my Model 70 Safari Express is cast, and I'm replacing it with one made of forged, spring steel. Investment casting may be fine for boat anchors, but I don't think it has any place in what is supposed to be a high-quality firearm!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Matt in WV: Have you seen, handled the new Savage in Walnut stock? Do think you will be impressed with this firearm.Also,Mosseburg has come a long way with their rifles as well. They too have a Walnut Stocked rifle in most allcalibers. With the ecomony in such poor condition, most of us hunters, gun owners have resorted to less expensive firearms. I;m a Remington Nut and own many in different calibers in the Model 700's. However, if were to buy a new rifle in Am, sure would have to consider a Savage or Mosseburg. May not be the finest finished product, but they both shoot well and the one's I;ve shot are very accurate. At a savings of $500.00 or more over the de-flunt 70's, that is a good reason to give Savsge and Mosseburg a try. After all, a dead animal is dead if you shoot properly, it could care less if shot by???????.I am not convinced that the maybe new 70??? is New per-sai. If were to gamble, would place my $$$ on Japan parts and assembled, shipped to the S.C. coast and packaged by some Co. Time will tell after afew f you guys purchase one.Me, I;ve been down that road with a WSM, that was enough. Wonder how many gun owners know that Savage firearms all have a 3 position slide safety??? Two dealers I talked with in past month,been in business many years,did not know that. Savage is one of the safetist firearms mfgered plus shoot l MOA and don;t cost 2 arms and a leg. Fora haul around by 4 wheeler, pickup or extreme bad weather the syn stocks do have a place in the shooting/hunting world.The Model ll0 has been around many years and has a proven track record at least to me for my purpose. But for a mid- high $$ western hunt, my 700's go with me always. If zeroed in properly and a quality scope,Ammo, the 700 cannot be beaten, provding you pratice enough to shoot accurate and take only make-able shots as i must do, due to my disability of not being able to track wounded game at 500 yds away. Good hunting, shot often and straight.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

The new Winchester will not be cast, unl;ike a Kimber which cost more.SA, if the South Carolina built guns are the equal of the late production New Haven guns they would still be much better than a Savage. Without Hew Havens crap managment and labour the quality should go no where but up. The only thing I am worried about is the new trigger and what chamberings they chose to offer.Savage has some neet guns, but they are as refined as a 2x6 and the features of the 110 action are not near as good as a Model 70.

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from Jeff wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

My wish list from Winchester regarding the M70:1) Quality as others have mentioned.2) Detachable magazine.3) 358 Winchester.4) Start making different 200, 225 & 250 gr. ammo in 358 WIN as well.And if they start making the M94 again, same comments apply to 356 WIN.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

ChevJimMore makers than you realize use investment casting. I know a lady who worked at T/C in New Hampshire and one job she had there was molding the wax forms.Investment castings at Ruger are subjected to incredibly high pressures and stresses in their quality control process and I am sure that other makers do likewise. Unit inspection techniques have also progressed since that Dan Wesson of yours came off the production line. I doubt that the legal eagles for any maker would allow it to market weapons that are even remotely suspect in the safety department.SA

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I hope the new Winchester Model 70s are NOT investment cast. I won't buy an investment cast firearm--ever since a Dan Wesson frame (not cylinder) let go while I was firing factory .357 ammo. You may say that Rugers are strong--and I'm sure they are--but there's also more metal piled on to make up for the lack of strength you have in forged steel. I also know that Ruger investment cast receivers are straightened out by a guy with a HAMMER when they come out of the molds! Hey, Ruger's got some nice firearms but I'll take the slimmer, forged steel rifles and handguns every time. Ounce for ounce, the forged steel guns are stronger, and you won't get "voids" in forged steel like my Dan Wesson probably had. You can talk about how strong investment cast guns are all you want, but once you have one "blow up" in your hand you will change your mind!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

BenYou state that Savage is not in the same ballpark with Winchester.I think the jury is still out on just what 'ballpark' this new iteration of Winchester will be in. Will they consistently deliver the finest quality reliable well finished weapons or will they slack off? Will they back their products with a lifetime warranty? Will they support a dealer network properly? So many questions have to be answered. Honestly it is hard to say just how long we shooters will give them to answer. We have so many choices now both traditional makers and new ones.SA

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Ok so the Winchester website is glitzy.The semi-auto rifle is -- to be kind -- not aesthetically pleasing to me.The real problem I see is that they seem bound and determined to stay with the WSM/WSSM lineup to the exclusion of most 'normal' chamberings; I simply won't buy into them.SA

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from Jack wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Can you buy a Kimber in left hand? I'm looking for a nice bolt action .25/06. I really like the Sako but my wallet says different.Jack

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from Ben wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Savage isnt even in the same ball park as Winchester or even Remington and Ruger for that matter.If you want a cheap POS than by all means look at a Savage.BTW Kimber seems to be doing a pretty good job of selling rifles in that price range. And they are made from Cast metal!

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from Black Rifle Addict wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

All good points made on the Mod-70, and I totally agree with MattWV on the savage rifles. My GOD the sythetic stocks they have are ugly as sin! They perform, however; which is their saving grace and the accu trigger design is quite the innovation. I hope they rewarded the engineer(s) and designers that came up with it!Much is also said about the .25/06 here and about how it preforms nicely on game with minimal recoil-sweet. I hope the ammo maunfactures are listening?

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from mose wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

click on products, then firearms, then rifles. you will eventually get there. lol.

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from mose wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

sorry all you doom and gloomers....but the best is back?http://www.winchesterint.com/winchester/intro.html

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from MattWV wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Tyflier,I'm in no way trying to justify the prices listed for the new M70s but understand that first off they're most likely retail and these rifles will hopefully be somewhat cheaper than what's listed.Secondly, Savages and Stevens are $500 cheaper for reasons other than just the name. I mean the Accu-trigger is a great design but these rifles are definitely missing the fit and finish that comes with most rifles that are hundreds more. Don't get me wrong, Savage is turning out some great products and the Accu-trigger really opened a lot of eyes but things like their synthetic stocks are still pretty God-awful. I just don't understand how you can let a rifle stocked in a synthetic with a mold line running from fore-end to heel leave the factory.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

ClayMy reason for potentially choosing a .25-06 is that one of these years I might head west for Pronghorn. Otherwise it is a toss up; the .243 is easily effective at any range I would ever shoot in my neck of the woods for deer or coyotes, not being a handloader I like the selection of factory ammo in either. I don't think there is significant recoil difference between the two chamberings. I am looking at the Rossi Trifecta set up as a training weapon system for my kids and grandkids, the centerfire rifle barrel with that set is .243 so we would match on that ammo. Decisions, decisions!Still would love a handy lever action carbine in .460 S&W too, if any of the new Winchester decision makers are listening!SA

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Thoughtthe 70 was to be built in Japan? maybe the parts are ad assembled here???? As for the price, it's dead already. i like Rems better, but they also getting a tad pricey. Look what Savage has done with their line.Can buy a hunting rifle, scoped ( etc cheap) and a box of Amm for less than 500 bucks and go kill a Deer.I bought one of the last 70's made in Ct in 300 WSM.Shot that sucker adozen times and it got worse with eachshot. Found a 70 nut and unloaded it.Did take him a year to pay me but at least I got most of my$ back and then bought a Rem 700 CDL. Now i;m happy. Just need to hunt more. The 25-06 is so underated by most, all they need t do is try a box of ammo thru one and then decide. I have a Classic, its a greatflat shooter and easy on the shoulder.Most of all trigger is about 3 lbs and with the best Ammo will fly flat and straight out to 400 yds most days, provding wind is not 50MPH.Winchester or whom -ever is building the new 70 has a lot to overcome, and the last batches from CT sure killed any idea of me owning one. Plus their price is a major factor as well.Look out here comes SAVAGE to save our day.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

SilverArrowLast week I just received from Midsouth Shooters, a Ramline Cadet Youth stock for my new Remington 700CDL 25-06 for my 7 year old Grandson for the youth hunt Nov. 3-4. I prefer the 25-06 over the 243 any day!

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from David wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Wont buy either one for $900 or more when I can get a Ruger Hawkeye for $500 The money I save will go towards the scope.

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from tyflier wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I'm looking for my next long gun, and if the post release reports are good, I might go for it. But with others like the Savage-Stevens combos priced in the mid $300 range, it's hard to justify the extra money for the name. Sako has a new model guaranteing MOA with 5 shot groups. That's worth investigating. But with Weatherby, Remington and Savage offering MOA rifles, Winchester is still too high on the $ to compete.

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from Paul Brinkley wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I know that the last model 70's sucked. I know that people were disgusted with them. But I also know that they have already sold one if they do a lefty and they do indeed live up to the evaluation above, a 25-06 with that lovely featherweight stock.the Winchester mystique is alive and well.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Chev JimAmen, brother! Made in the good old U.S. of A. I will buy one just for that reason, but I do want quality and of course safety!No I won't buy one of the WSM/WSSM chamberings. I will probably go for a .243 or .25-06 as a multipurpose rifle I can use myself or teach my children on.SA

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from Chev.Jim wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Agree with Matthew. A lot of the last Winchester 70s were terrible, including my Safari Express, with its horrendous wood to metal fit. Here's what Winchester needs to do: (1) Pay particular attention to fit and finish; (2) don't overprice the rifles, particularly in view of past quality control problems; (3) chamber for the WSMs or kiss these cartridges goodbye forever; (4) watch those triggers--gritty or heavy trigger pulls will kill these rifles when there are "lawyer-less alternatives,"; (5) watch out for accuracy, because a 2 1/2 or 3 MOA rifle won't cut it; (6) think about building-in some "Weaver type" attachment points on the receiver; (7) make sure that the actions feed and eject well, that the safeties work and that the rifles cannot inadvertently fire--a recall could kill off these rifles forever; and (8) Winchester should offer a lifetime warranty--if Taurus and Smith and Wesson can do it, a decent rifle maker should be able to do it. Again, these rifles need to look, function and shoot like they are worth every penny of the price. Nostalgia won't keep these rifles afloat if they aren't built to "rifleman's rifle" standards. One thing: thanks for not having them made in Japan or China!

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from Matthew Acton wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Great. I'm really happy that my favorite gun, the Model 70, is back. Now how about pricing it so that I don't have to take a second mortgage out to afford it?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

So where's DEP hunting this week? Lucky ba$+@*o! I'm beginning to understand this 300+ head of big game animals before one can truly become proficient.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Both rifles look interesting but as has been mentioned; may be priced above their relative worth when you look at Savage among others. The 'new' Winchester' company has a hell of a row to hoe if it wants to sell on that name, it had better live up to the reputation that WAS and not fall into slacker habits which ruined the original company! They ought to bring back the M94 with a brand new chambering; the .460 S&W magnum.Random thoughts on a rainy saturday.SA

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I am hoping that Winchester is serious about the new Model 70. I believe that the Model 70 in its original incarnation was the best rifle ever made on a mass-produced basis. Then came 1964 and the rifle was cheapened to the point of absurdity--a free-floated barrel with 1/8-inch clearance on both sides, worthless impressed checkering, a a stiff action that you could hardly operate from the shoulder. The anti-bind device added later really helped, and Winchester dropped the slick stock finish. But the damage was done. The Remington 700 series was made from the start to be an economically manufactured rifle--it wasn't made to a higher standard and then cheapened, as was the Model 70. I like the Remington Model 700, too, and they cannot be beaten as actions for target rifles. For some reason, rifles with a round-bottom receiver tend to be more accurate than flat-bottom receivers, although you'd think the latter would bed better and be less subject to torque. I suppose it's the rigidly of a "tube-type" receiver. Anyway, I still prefer the Mauser-type extractor in a dangerous-game rifle and it just has a panache that the push feed rifles lack. I also agree with others about the impact of the Savage Accu-Trigger. That innovation finally got the lawyers out of the trigger-pull business. I, personally, would never buy a rifle with a lawyer-trigger, and I never did. I believe that when you buy something new, you shouldn't have to have it "fixed," whether it's a new rifle or a "1911" pistol. Let's hope that neither the new Browning X-Bolt or Winchester Model 70 need "fixing" after purchase for any reason--if they do, they can remain on the dealers' shelves for all I care.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

$1,000- is a lot of money for a gun who's reputation is suspect at best... Face it, it's been 44 years since they produced a top quality product.

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Ralph the Rifleman wrote:By the way, it seems like the Model 70 received so much bashing why would it be resurrected in production?Ralph,'Cause baby boomers are suckers for nostalgia. Pure and simple.Jim

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Both rifles seem like nice shooters, but can the shooting market support all these new models hitting the market do they have a chance of success?By the way, it seems like the Model 70 received so much bashing why would it be resurrected in production?

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from alabamahunter wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Ruger has listened. The new Hawkeye has a much improved trigger over the M77 MarkII. I have a MarkII and my dad just bought a Hawkeye and it has a pretty good trigger that pulls at a little over 4 pounds.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

AnthonyThe picture of the Browning appears to have a German/Austrian look to it. Where is it manufactured and/or the origin of design?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Well, I dropped of the .257 Wby Mag Vanguard for a trigger job today and will have a sub minute of angle rifle with an excellent trigger for less than $500-... Winchester and Browning still have a lot of catching up to do.

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I just posted the news releases fromhttp://www.shootingwire.com/shooting_wire.html?date=2007-10-24

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from John Thompson wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Where is your post jstreet? I must of missed it and now I can't find it. Did you hunt with the guns? What'd ya think of them?

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I scooped you and posted this three days ago on this blog.

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from Frank Fox wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

They both look like sweet rifles. Its amazing how much triggers have turned around in the last few years, and KJ is right--its all because of the accutrigger.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I love how Savage and their "Accutrigger" has forced the competition to improve. I hope Ruger is listening.

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from MattWV wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Let me be the first to say that they'd better plan on turning out some left-handed models.

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from B Shupe wrote 5 years 21 weeks ago

I just spoke to a Customer Service Representative at Winchester again and he said the Super Grade is scheduled to be available in stores around the end of November and early December '08.

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from B Shupe wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I just spoke to a Customer Service Representative at Winchester and he said the Super Grade should be available in stores around the middle of November '08.

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from Lee wrote 5 years 37 weeks ago

First the new Winchester firearms are made and assembled in Columbia, SC. Not overseas, period. Only time will tell though whether they will sell. They were supposed to ship early last month but I still have yet to see one and it's almost August. They're really going to need to get them into the gun stores in time for hunting season or this year will be pretty much a loss.

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from Darryl wrote 5 years 40 weeks ago

I'm very pleased that the Winchester name is staying in the rifle business and that the 70 is still here! I have 2, one is my 243 deer rifle (made in'73)and is a beautiful rifle and shoots like it. The other is an action only (began life as a late model 270) that I'm building into a match rifle. I have 2 Winchester Model 52's myself and 4 in the family. If you're unfamiliar with this rifle, it was the BADDEST 22lr on the planet for 50years. One of my 52's is an 18lb target rifle fired at 200 yards in competition and the other is a sporterized custom from the first year of production(1920). The Match rifle is sub 1/4MOA and the sporter is sub 1/2 MOA. I know that Winchester made cuts in assembly and fit and finish in the later years, but their metallurgy and design are top notch. Several of the gun writers back in the '60s really hurt winchester's reputation with comments about the fit and finish of the m70 (argueably not unfounded) but these fit and finish problems were solved in a few years and it became prettier than it ever was pre'64. I agree with one writer who said that the pre'64 rifles "look old". the shape of the stock just isn't what it became in the '70's. (long live the Monte Carlo shaped piece of Walnut!!!! free float it, bed it, and not only will it shoot beautifully but any piece of wood looks better than all that Plastic!!!) the push feed action is stronger and a more accurate design than the pre'64 as well. I hope that the Winchester rifles all come back, I'm probably dreaming, but the 94, the 52, and of course the 70 should all be alive and well. In their respective classes, they were always Top of the Heap.DPS

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from Dom wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

270 Winchester vs 270 WSMIf you are debating between either of these there's something to keep in mind.If you buy factory ammunitionthe Velocity,Energy and bullet drop ratings are tested with a 24" barrel.Most 270 winchester barrels are 22" - 23" long, not the 24" of the test barrels, so actual velocity is going to be off by approximately 25fps per inch. This will impact energy and bullet drop accordingly so check the barrel length.270WSM rifles all come with 24" barrels so off the shelf ammunition should perform as advertised.I've also noticed a trend with ammunition manufacturers in that they are downloading the 270 Winchester, even conservative handloads can outperform factory ammunition. I'm assuming the "official reason" for this is that they are downloading this cartridge because of the age of some 270 Winchester rifles.Or it could be because they want a wider performance gap to the 270WSM.Keep in mind that if you travel some countries will only allow factory ammunition- not handloads across their borders.

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from Dom wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

There's a few questions I'd like to answer on here.First- the new model 70 Extreme Weather will have a full length aluminum bedding block and it's a Bell and Carlson stock (Medalist version) so there's no worries about flexy stocks here.I've had two Sako 75 Stainless rifles in 270WSM- neither one has fed reliably and both ejected cases into the bottom of my scope. I tried another magazine $110- that didn't solve the feeding issue. It was also only shot 6MOA groups- tried handloads and every box of 270WSM on the market, (except Black hills). So I sent it back to Beretta. They sent me a completely new rifle.This one also didn't feed reliably and also ejected cases into the bottom of my scope. I tried Warne and Sako's stock rings- it didn't make a difference.I've talked to other that have had no problems with their Sako's but my luck has been so bad I'm trading this one in for a Winchester.

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from Hans Kirkman wrote 6 years 14 weeks ago

Which .270 to buy?I will be using the rifle for deer 90% of the time and elk 10%. It will most likely be the only hunting rifle I have so I want to be able to use for both. Price isn't huge, the biggest concern I have is quality and accuracy. It will become an extension of my body so it needs to last.Any advice is appreciated.

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from Del in Kansas wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hans Kirkman,If the approximately $1000 price tag is not too much for the budget the Kimber Model 8400 classic stands head and shoulders above the others. Every Kimber I have seen had nice wood, good fit and finish and was accurate. My 2506 came right out of the box with a 3 lb trigger pull with no creep or overtravel. Just remember to put a quality scope and rings on whatever you buy. You did not say what you will hunt with the gun but if it is deer the 2506 has less recoil and will kill them just as dead as any 270.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hans Kirkman:The new Ruger Hawkeye has received very good reviews and its a very nice looking rifle! Apparently, they just announced that this rifle will be available as a lefty. As such, I will definitely look into it. I had my heart set on a Sako, but the ones I was watching disappeared before I could act. Being left-handed, the choices sometimes are slim, especially when you want a certain caliber.Also, in another Dave Petzal Blog, someone wrote that had bought something on one of the gunsites, paid for the item, but had not received it. Internet shopping for something like a high dollar rifle scares the crap out of me.YooperJack

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from Hans Kirkman wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

I'm looking for wisdom and advice. I will be purchasing a .270 this March and am looking for recommendations and why. I've had and liked a Sako in the past but am hearing much about Savage and Browning...what is the most recommended make of all, for the dollar? Probably like asking which is better Ford or Chevy...

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from JKeene wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

I hope that the new M70s are as good as the Classics from the 90s. I also hope that they come in left hand configurations. If so, I will buy a few more especially if they make a short action version chambered for standard cartridges not WSMs.Next, Big Al, I agree with you on Savage actions being rough. First, clean all the manufacturing debris out of them. That generally helps a lot. Next, on a cold winter night with nothing to do but sit in front of the tube, sit and work the action while you do. If you feel brave, put a little polishing compound on the action when you do. Save you a few bucks doing so.Jim

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from Big Al wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Has anyone but me noticed that Savage bolt action rifles simply do not cycle as smoothly as Remingtons, Brownings, Sakos, and so on? Accuracy is terrific, I like Savage rifles, but the actions are a little harder to work than others. They defintiely do not have a "smooth as butter" action. I sent my Savage to Sharp Shooters in Delphos, Ohio, and they smoothed the action out beautifully!

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from T.Bertram wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

I have a 97 M 70 in featherweight that is good to fit and finish, shoots 150s very well' but have seen some real wrecks sudsequent to it, one really did look like sabotage.All this talk about youth calibers and light recoil, .243 is for expert shooters ie .410 shotguns, a nice .260 Rem or 7mm08 are much better and for my picks excell over the 25-06.

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from Triton wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Okay I have to ask. The above article also is about a new Browning X-bolt introduction.I understand why the Winchester announcement has your attention but why is there no discussion about the Browning. When I read forums it seems that the comments center around Remingtons. I guess by question is, what is wrong with the A-bolt that I can never find a definative answer for. For example...ie...I understand about winchester quality being lost due to corporate ignorance and greed, or Ruger cast recievers, but what is the negative issues with A-bolts?

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from timmy wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

i love feild and stream

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

For those questioning the asking prices of M70 XTR's in .257 R, check GunBroker. bids up to $775, asking $1200.

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from Me wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

Well, seeing as how I can get a X-Bolt for 50% off retail since I work at a dealer for them I'm going to do so. I can get a X-Bolt Medallion for $475 which in my opinion is a heck of a deal. I'm sure it will shoot like a dream. Now just to pick a caliber...

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

I know the Winchester M70 Featherweight XTR's are not as esteemed as the much touted pre - 64. The one I have is very well done with nary a stray machine mark or blemish in the wood. It is also a tack driver. I doubt that I'll part with it anytime soon. Maybe I have been falsely led by the digital gun brokers.

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from Rocky Mt Hunter wrote 6 years 23 weeks ago

Have not seen teh new Model Winc. 70, so will hold my opinion till I do so. Many of the factory built firearms with Syn stocks can have teh fit and looks improved witha little filling and sandpaper. That put-togethr rib on back side wher the mold came together can re removed with a tad of filling, then put a coat of flat=black or liwuid shoe polish over the sanding, you can neversee again.But with a little elbow greese, the stock cn be made to fit the action much better, same applies to wood.With wood, file to fit teh metal and then use a very thin shim between the wood and metal, a tad shorter than the wood or metal adn guarantee teh wood will never split from over oiling and standing in the safe corner. I jut bought a Semi-cistom gun, anf about 2 hrs it look all together different, like it was suppose to look. On a Savage, with the 2 screws into Alum, when you fill the syn stock to fit the metal, those screws will pull the stock against the stock and metal . It works guys,. but a tad of work involved. A good cold, snowy job this winter when you crying over the missed deer you let get by. I;m buying one more Turk Mauser to sporterize and will leave the bbl as is. Will have rechambered to a 338, bolt jeweled and bolt bent and spoon shaped. All the metal from the bbl to stock will be buffed to the white and keep oiled, after a nonrust preventive paste applied and buffed in.Will stock with a Boyds Laminatedstock in Blk/Grey. Not a arm/leg expense, but will give me a job this winter, and a great long range rifle for Elk next fall, if able to go. ALso, will enstall a Gentry safety and set the trigger at 3 lbs. A 29" bbl is long, but the way I hunt is mostly sit, teh extra length only enhances my ability for a long distance shot. I;m from the old school, that the longer bbl does have a advantage. As all my present huntin guns carry 24 and 26" bbls regardless fo caliber. Why do the Varmite guns have a longer bbl than a Deer bbl.????

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from O Garcia wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

If the Belgians are going to oversee the Model 70 production, we should be able to sleep soundly at night. FN had a long association with John Browning, and aside from making the Hi-Power pistol, they (FN) are also responsible for the FAL, the best of the 1950's 7.62x51mm rifles (the others being the M14 and the H&K G3).For a country that was pretty much neutral from the end of the Napoleonic Wars to the end of WW2 (they're part of NATO now), Belgium has a pretty robust arms industry. It must be a "neutral country" trait, the Swedes and the Swiss make pretty good guns, too.Well, it's nice to see the Model 70 back.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

A Remington CDL or XCR doesnt have the features a model 70 has so its only natural a 70 would cost more.Ditto Weatherbys, although with them your paying for a name and a gawd awfull stock.....BTW a shill bid is when the person selling the gun has freinds or uses alternate identities to bid up the guns. If you watch the sights many of the same guns are for sale/auction over and over.To get a pulse of what your guns going for check out for sale sections of sites like 24hourcampfire or accurate reloading.I think what you will find is very few XTR's going for anywhere close to $1000. The XTR isnt a bad gun by any meens its just not as desirable as say a early to mid 90's classic.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Perhaps they are shill bids, whatever that is. Most are starting prices. I don't look every day. Guns America is a listing , not an auction to my knowledge. So maybe the guy who offered me $850 for mine was just kidding. I'm suppose some of the proces I saw reflected the buying frenzy following the closure announcement. Once their mediocre guns go back into production, prices will drop I'm sureI'd darn sure not pay $900 for a Remington CDL or XCR when I could pony up a few more bucks and get another Weatherby Mk V.

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from b.walker@voyager.net wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I believe the $900-1000 XTR's on Gunbroker are shill bids.A much more desirable early model classic will very rarely go for that much and only then if its on a rare chambering like a 300 weatehrby or is a supergrade.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Dr. Ralph and others: I;ve stated many times the Savage is a great firearm, quality material, shoots well and to point of sight. Now with the Walnut Stock they have come out with, the gun equals any Winchester to be made again. I do believe Savage has gone un-noticed or not really pumped up as the Rem.Winch.Whby, etc. For the money, you cannot beat a USA made firearm, such as the Savage. My complaint with the Vanguard is that stamp on the bbl made in JAPAN. Also, Savage sells more 22's than all the other Co's combined. I do plan on another firearm prior to my next trip to the Rockies and It will be a Savage in 270, Walnut Stock, Accutrigger. Not that I don;t like my 700's, I do prefer them, but now $$$$ enters the picture and for the $$$ Savage cannot be beat, and I feel with a quality scope it will perform as well as I;m able to shoot.At AGE 72, I'M NOT LOOKIGN FOR A LONG TERM FIREARM ANYMORE, JUST ONE THAT 1 CAN AFFORD AND one that will shoot as well as I;m able to shoot. My long Mtn climbs are over, now its find a trail, have a seat and enjoy the scenery and pray a quality, shootable animal comes by in your range of perfection. Have a good season, pratice a lot and buy more USA mfgered firearms.( Be careful of gun parts made in other countries). Be careful of it saying assembled in USA. That is not a USA made firearm, just the China, JApan parts shipped here and put together by cheap labor here.I want my gun, all of it, made in the USA.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Remington CDL list $907- available in eight standard calibers and two Ultra Mags. .243 to .35 Whelen... BDL's for $877-... Weatherby Vanguard fifteen calibers from .223 to .338 $525- guarantee minute and a half groups, walnut stock model $712-... Savage with accu-trigger $539- The only reason to buy an experimental Winchester Model 70 "Rifleman's Rifle" is the unique stock that so many fell head over heels in love with. It is a statement. It is a man driving a '63 Corvette with that split window and an ear to ear grin you couldn't wipe off with a 2X4...

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Bubba: Thanks for verifying what I;ve been trying to get across to the guys on this Blog for many months. A W-W firearm is not the same quality as for your local, long in business gun shop. WW tells the mfgers the # of certain firearms they want and what they will pay for them. So, the sales Rep for the mfger feathers his monthly commision check by having the mfgering dept to make a firearm as cheap as possible and then ship AS IS to WW. Any firearm I plan to use myself, I want the best quality I can get. So I spend a few extra dollars and get a first class firearm that has been checked out from A to Z. Granted, you may now and then get a firearm from WW that performs ok, lucky you. Try to take it back afer 90 days and see what problem you run into. It's yours, do the best you can with the mfger or a local gun-smith. There is a big difference in quality and quanity. Also, never, never buy a firearm sight un-seen from anyone, even your local dealer. I did just that and now the firearm is in limbo as to what the Dealer, Mfger, importer will do. I'm of the opinion its mine as is.Quality, pride in workmanship and trust has long gone out the window. It;s a dog eat dog world now. $$$ an cents run this country, Sad, but very true.Also, never purchase a firearm from anyone that they tells you it's a special run and on sale for a limited time at that price. Most Mfges will special run a few as l00 of the same fiearm and make as cheap as possible, cut evry corner they can. Cheap metal,un-matched wood, lousy SYN stocks and triggers like a Auto jack.Bolts that need a tube of graphite to slide the bolt into the chamber, extractors that you need pliers to remove shot shell.Then, pray you still have your eyes after shooting. Yep, I;m PISSED as trusted this Dealer on a firearm, and he let me down. My fault,but his also.Can bet the word is traveling on his behalf.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Talked recently with a gent that worked in Wally-World ware house for a period of time. He had done some gunsmithing so know how to handle the paperwork, so they assigned him there.According to him, Wally-World, a year in advance, buys x number of firearms at a set price. These are what they call straight-run guns. They are delivered to Wally-World just as they came off the assembly line with no QA adjustments or corrections. If the bolt doesn't close smoothly, a screw was butchered, a hole not tapped, stock does not fit properly, whatever, WM accepts them and sells them to the public, "AS IS"!If your gun has a problem, they replace it and ship the other off where it is corrected and sold to another store, (NOT WM) at a reduced cost.Knew a guy that bought a Win Mod. 70 from WM. When he reported it stolen 3 years later, he was almost arrested for possessing a stolen rifle! When the dust cleared, WM had written down the wrong serial number for his gun, the number on his gun showed to have been stolen from a WM in another town.To sell to WM, at their price, they cut some corners. In WM's case, it just happens to be QA.Bubba

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Just one point on older actions used for custom rifles. The pre-war Model 70s sometimes had too much sulfur in the steel used in the receivers. No other personage than Dick Casull served as an expert witness in a case where a modified Model 70 blew up. Winchester claimed the modification was to blame, but Casull did a metalurgical analysis, and showed that the high sulfur content had made the metal brittle. I think the conversion was from .257 Roberts to .270 Winchester. Also, there are old Mauser actions used for .308 Winchester and magnum cartridges, and the old Mausers were designed to work around 46,000 pounds per square inch (psi) pressures, and NOT the 55,000 - 70,000 generated by many modern cartridges. So, you might have a custom Mauser sporter that is valued around $5,000, but it's an accident waiting to happen. What I want to see is guns showing fine craftsmanship like in the old days, but with modern steels--that would be the best of both worlds!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

BenCheck Guns America and Gunbroker dot com. XTR featherweights in .257 Roberts, 7x57, etc. have been selling for $900 - $1,000. I paid $425 for mine a couple of years ago in LNIB condition.I'll take all the early XTR's in LNIB condition you can find for $400! And I don't particlarly like Winchesters!Other Posters:Is there realy a difference between a low end rifle at Wal-Mart and one sold elsewhere? Or, are the finish grades of rifles sold at Wally World just aimed at the customer base and what they will spend for a rifle?

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Chev. Jim. Good for you.I also agree that I want my best shooting rifles to look the part, Nice and functional. Do agree however, if I were hunting in severe foul weather the syn stocks/ss bbls with floor plate have their place. Here we go again, but I;ve tried to tell many guys on this Blog, that Wal-mart carries a special built to their specks firearm that is not the real gun dealers carry. I bought one of the 70 WSM's from them due to price, My axe looked a lot bettr and did function a lot better. It soon found a new Home, replaced by a New Remington. I just hope Remington don;t fall in same trap as Winchester did and start cutting corners to sell cheap built guns.Wal-mart has taken guns out of l000 stores to date and more to go. To me the Savage is a far better firearm than a Winchester, but I don't like the claw extractor period and I have a Custom built 06 with a Mauser action ,plus one other sporterized Turk Mauser 8 mm. Neither go with me out West on a serious high $ hunt. Someday,. some guy with lots of Money and pockets on fire will offer me enough that both the Mausers will go with him. In the intrium, I will just use my 700's and bring home the bacon. Why pray tell is the pre 64 such a better firearm than a post 64. If I;m gonna go with a new Custom built gun, I sure want new parts not 50 yr or more used stuff. My Mausers, especially the Turk is over 75 yrs old and the Custom who knows how old the action is. Just wish the action could be changed out to a Remington 700 with out costing a ton of $. The wood on the custom is worth several $$$$$ dollars, plus the dble set triggers. O well, its in the Vault, not going away yet. Read a interesting article last night about a guy built a 44 special on a old style flat top Black-hawk 357 mag with 4-5/8" bbl and Ram horns for grips. Only 7 of those were built SS-l thru SS-7 are the S#'s. But my A.Uberti is better built i think in 45 LC. O well, we all got our favorits, and thats great for business. Just wish had the extra $ for all the firearms and hunting trips I want. Shoot often and straight.

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I absolutely hated those "Wal-Mart" Model 70s that had the blind magazine boxes. I do not like to unload a rifle by cycling all of the ammmo through the action! Besides that, they were just plain ugly. I never bought one of those rifles. I much preferred to go to a regular gun shop and get something a little more "upscale." A rifle should provide some pride of ownership. If it looks like a plastic coated crowbar, it might still work after a fashion but it will not be a pleasure to carry or shoot. We accept cheapness in so many areas of our lives--but guns are where I draw the line. I cannot afford a Purdey or Holland and Holland double, but I'm fussy about what I CAN afford!

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from MattG wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I meant cheap Model 70 Wal-Mart specials.

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from MattG wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

The problem with Model 70's as I see it, was the fac that there were so many "cheap Wal-Mart specials". I have a '02 Mod 70 Featherweight in .270 Win and a '05Featherweight in .300 WSM. Clean cut checkering, shnabel (sp?) fore grip, nice fit and best of all, sub MOA in both rifles. The above pic of the 70 featherweight looks good.

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from ben wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Winchester's on the used market can be had very resonably. A 85 XTR wont go for much over $400 from what I have seen. A early Classic sells for around $700 wtih newer clasics going for $5-600.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

My comments on the new M70 from Winchester. I have a M70 XTR Featherweight circa 1985. The fit and finish is impeccable and it shoots 1 MOA with my handloads, which are the only .257 Roberts ammo I shoot. The trigger is out of the box and a little stiff, but otherwise fine for a hunting rifle. It is in the safe since the value has gone sky high on New Haven Winchesters on the used market. I have 2 older M700 rifles (.308 & .35 Whelen) that will shoot less than MOA with most ammo. Both are bedded and free floated. My Weatherby Mk V will shoot MOA with a few loads, most notably 180 gr A-Frames and 165 gr Triple Shocks.Those new M70's had better beat that or stay under the porch. One of the guys in our hunting group missed 3 elk and a deer last week with 2 different Winchesters. Boy howdy did he catch crap for that. Whether it was him or the rifles, the blame was slanted toward the Winchesters and the reputation they have enjoyed (?) the past few years. I think I will keep my one and only M70 and spend any spare $1000 bills on a Weatherby.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I'm going to stick with my Remington's. Tried and proven! I do own a Browning A-Bolt in 338 Win Mag that shoots like a house on fire!

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I know a LOT of firearms use investment cast frames and receivers, and I know what they say about maintaining high quality, but I don't want any more of them. The grain structure in an investment cast arm is totally different from one that is forged, and the bottom line is that you have to pile more metal onto an investment cast frame or receiver to make it as strong as a forged one. The very best actions are milled from heat treated bar stock--pre-heat treated so there's no warpage involved with the finished product. Ruger receivers don't come out of those molds straight--they begin warping and have to be beaten straight with a hammer. Maybe that's why you don't see any winning target rifles built on Ruger actions. One of these days I'm going to get an Ed Brown pistol, because I don't want investment cast frames or slides, and I don't want MIM parts on something I'll be staking my life on. It's one thing for an investment casting or MIM part to break at the range, but it's quite another when you're in a firefight. If I had been a policeman and that Dan Wesson had let go in a duel with the bad guys, I'd have been in a lot of trouble! The extractor on my Model 70 Safari Express is cast, and I'm replacing it with one made of forged, spring steel. Investment casting may be fine for boat anchors, but I don't think it has any place in what is supposed to be a high-quality firearm!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Matt in WV: Have you seen, handled the new Savage in Walnut stock? Do think you will be impressed with this firearm.Also,Mosseburg has come a long way with their rifles as well. They too have a Walnut Stocked rifle in most allcalibers. With the ecomony in such poor condition, most of us hunters, gun owners have resorted to less expensive firearms. I;m a Remington Nut and own many in different calibers in the Model 700's. However, if were to buy a new rifle in Am, sure would have to consider a Savage or Mosseburg. May not be the finest finished product, but they both shoot well and the one's I;ve shot are very accurate. At a savings of $500.00 or more over the de-flunt 70's, that is a good reason to give Savsge and Mosseburg a try. After all, a dead animal is dead if you shoot properly, it could care less if shot by???????.I am not convinced that the maybe new 70??? is New per-sai. If were to gamble, would place my $$$ on Japan parts and assembled, shipped to the S.C. coast and packaged by some Co. Time will tell after afew f you guys purchase one.Me, I;ve been down that road with a WSM, that was enough. Wonder how many gun owners know that Savage firearms all have a 3 position slide safety??? Two dealers I talked with in past month,been in business many years,did not know that. Savage is one of the safetist firearms mfgered plus shoot l MOA and don;t cost 2 arms and a leg. Fora haul around by 4 wheeler, pickup or extreme bad weather the syn stocks do have a place in the shooting/hunting world.The Model ll0 has been around many years and has a proven track record at least to me for my purpose. But for a mid- high $$ western hunt, my 700's go with me always. If zeroed in properly and a quality scope,Ammo, the 700 cannot be beaten, provding you pratice enough to shoot accurate and take only make-able shots as i must do, due to my disability of not being able to track wounded game at 500 yds away. Good hunting, shot often and straight.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

The new Winchester will not be cast, unl;ike a Kimber which cost more.SA, if the South Carolina built guns are the equal of the late production New Haven guns they would still be much better than a Savage. Without Hew Havens crap managment and labour the quality should go no where but up. The only thing I am worried about is the new trigger and what chamberings they chose to offer.Savage has some neet guns, but they are as refined as a 2x6 and the features of the 110 action are not near as good as a Model 70.

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from Jeff wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

My wish list from Winchester regarding the M70:1) Quality as others have mentioned.2) Detachable magazine.3) 358 Winchester.4) Start making different 200, 225 & 250 gr. ammo in 358 WIN as well.And if they start making the M94 again, same comments apply to 356 WIN.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

ChevJimMore makers than you realize use investment casting. I know a lady who worked at T/C in New Hampshire and one job she had there was molding the wax forms.Investment castings at Ruger are subjected to incredibly high pressures and stresses in their quality control process and I am sure that other makers do likewise. Unit inspection techniques have also progressed since that Dan Wesson of yours came off the production line. I doubt that the legal eagles for any maker would allow it to market weapons that are even remotely suspect in the safety department.SA

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

I hope the new Winchester Model 70s are NOT investment cast. I won't buy an investment cast firearm--ever since a Dan Wesson frame (not cylinder) let go while I was firing factory .357 ammo. You may say that Rugers are strong--and I'm sure they are--but there's also more metal piled on to make up for the lack of strength you have in forged steel. I also know that Ruger investment cast receivers are straightened out by a guy with a HAMMER when they come out of the molds! Hey, Ruger's got some nice firearms but I'll take the slimmer, forged steel rifles and handguns every time. Ounce for ounce, the forged steel guns are stronger, and you won't get "voids" in forged steel like my Dan Wesson probably had. You can talk about how strong investment cast guns are all you want, but once you have one "blow up" in your hand you will change your mind!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

BenYou state that Savage is not in the same ballpark with Winchester.I think the jury is still out on just what 'ballpark' this new iteration of Winchester will be in. Will they consistently deliver the finest quality reliable well finished weapons or will they slack off? Will they back their products with a lifetime warranty? Will they support a dealer network properly? So many questions have to be answered. Honestly it is hard to say just how long we shooters will give them to answer. We have so many choices now both traditional makers and new ones.SA

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Ok so the Winchester website is glitzy.The semi-auto rifle is -- to be kind -- not aesthetically pleasing to me.The real problem I see is that they seem bound and determined to stay with the WSM/WSSM lineup to the exclusion of most 'normal' chamberings; I simply won't buy into them.SA

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from Jack wrote 6 years 24 weeks ago

Can you buy a Kimber in left hand? I'm looking for a nice bolt action .25/06. I really like the Sako but my wallet says different.Jack

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from Ben wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Savage isnt even in the same ball park as Winchester or even Remington and Ruger for that matter.If you want a cheap POS than by all means look at a Savage.BTW Kimber seems to be doing a pretty good job of selling rifles in that price range. And they are made from Cast metal!

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from Black Rifle Addict wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

All good points made on the Mod-70, and I totally agree with MattWV on the savage rifles. My GOD the sythetic stocks they have are ugly as sin! They perform, however; which is their saving grace and the accu trigger design is quite the innovation. I hope they rewarded the engineer(s) and designers that came up with it!Much is also said about the .25/06 here and about how it preforms nicely on game with minimal recoil-sweet. I hope the ammo maunfactures are listening?

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from mose wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

click on products, then firearms, then rifles. you will eventually get there. lol.

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from mose wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

sorry all you doom and gloomers....but the best is back?http://www.winchesterint.com/winchester/intro.html

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from MattWV wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Tyflier,I'm in no way trying to justify the prices listed for the new M70s but understand that first off they're most likely retail and these rifles will hopefully be somewhat cheaper than what's listed.Secondly, Savages and Stevens are $500 cheaper for reasons other than just the name. I mean the Accu-trigger is a great design but these rifles are definitely missing the fit and finish that comes with most rifles that are hundreds more. Don't get me wrong, Savage is turning out some great products and the Accu-trigger really opened a lot of eyes but things like their synthetic stocks are still pretty God-awful. I just don't understand how you can let a rifle stocked in a synthetic with a mold line running from fore-end to heel leave the factory.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

ClayMy reason for potentially choosing a .25-06 is that one of these years I might head west for Pronghorn. Otherwise it is a toss up; the .243 is easily effective at any range I would ever shoot in my neck of the woods for deer or coyotes, not being a handloader I like the selection of factory ammo in either. I don't think there is significant recoil difference between the two chamberings. I am looking at the Rossi Trifecta set up as a training weapon system for my kids and grandkids, the centerfire rifle barrel with that set is .243 so we would match on that ammo. Decisions, decisions!Still would love a handy lever action carbine in .460 S&W too, if any of the new Winchester decision makers are listening!SA

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Thoughtthe 70 was to be built in Japan? maybe the parts are ad assembled here???? As for the price, it's dead already. i like Rems better, but they also getting a tad pricey. Look what Savage has done with their line.Can buy a hunting rifle, scoped ( etc cheap) and a box of Amm for less than 500 bucks and go kill a Deer.I bought one of the last 70's made in Ct in 300 WSM.Shot that sucker adozen times and it got worse with eachshot. Found a 70 nut and unloaded it.Did take him a year to pay me but at least I got most of my$ back and then bought a Rem 700 CDL. Now i;m happy. Just need to hunt more. The 25-06 is so underated by most, all they need t do is try a box of ammo thru one and then decide. I have a Classic, its a greatflat shooter and easy on the shoulder.Most of all trigger is about 3 lbs and with the best Ammo will fly flat and straight out to 400 yds most days, provding wind is not 50MPH.Winchester or whom -ever is building the new 70 has a lot to overcome, and the last batches from CT sure killed any idea of me owning one. Plus their price is a major factor as well.Look out here comes SAVAGE to save our day.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

SilverArrowLast week I just received from Midsouth Shooters, a Ramline Cadet Youth stock for my new Remington 700CDL 25-06 for my 7 year old Grandson for the youth hunt Nov. 3-4. I prefer the 25-06 over the 243 any day!

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from David wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Wont buy either one for $900 or more when I can get a Ruger Hawkeye for $500 The money I save will go towards the scope.

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from tyflier wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I'm looking for my next long gun, and if the post release reports are good, I might go for it. But with others like the Savage-Stevens combos priced in the mid $300 range, it's hard to justify the extra money for the name. Sako has a new model guaranteing MOA with 5 shot groups. That's worth investigating. But with Weatherby, Remington and Savage offering MOA rifles, Winchester is still too high on the $ to compete.

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from Paul Brinkley wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I know that the last model 70's sucked. I know that people were disgusted with them. But I also know that they have already sold one if they do a lefty and they do indeed live up to the evaluation above, a 25-06 with that lovely featherweight stock.the Winchester mystique is alive and well.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Chev JimAmen, brother! Made in the good old U.S. of A. I will buy one just for that reason, but I do want quality and of course safety!No I won't buy one of the WSM/WSSM chamberings. I will probably go for a .243 or .25-06 as a multipurpose rifle I can use myself or teach my children on.SA

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from Chev.Jim wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Agree with Matthew. A lot of the last Winchester 70s were terrible, including my Safari Express, with its horrendous wood to metal fit. Here's what Winchester needs to do: (1) Pay particular attention to fit and finish; (2) don't overprice the rifles, particularly in view of past quality control problems; (3) chamber for the WSMs or kiss these cartridges goodbye forever; (4) watch those triggers--gritty or heavy trigger pulls will kill these rifles when there are "lawyer-less alternatives,"; (5) watch out for accuracy, because a 2 1/2 or 3 MOA rifle won't cut it; (6) think about building-in some "Weaver type" attachment points on the receiver; (7) make sure that the actions feed and eject well, that the safeties work and that the rifles cannot inadvertently fire--a recall could kill off these rifles forever; and (8) Winchester should offer a lifetime warranty--if Taurus and Smith and Wesson can do it, a decent rifle maker should be able to do it. Again, these rifles need to look, function and shoot like they are worth every penny of the price. Nostalgia won't keep these rifles afloat if they aren't built to "rifleman's rifle" standards. One thing: thanks for not having them made in Japan or China!

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from Matthew Acton wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Great. I'm really happy that my favorite gun, the Model 70, is back. Now how about pricing it so that I don't have to take a second mortgage out to afford it?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

So where's DEP hunting this week? Lucky ba$+@*o! I'm beginning to understand this 300+ head of big game animals before one can truly become proficient.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Both rifles look interesting but as has been mentioned; may be priced above their relative worth when you look at Savage among others. The 'new' Winchester' company has a hell of a row to hoe if it wants to sell on that name, it had better live up to the reputation that WAS and not fall into slacker habits which ruined the original company! They ought to bring back the M94 with a brand new chambering; the .460 S&W magnum.Random thoughts on a rainy saturday.SA

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I am hoping that Winchester is serious about the new Model 70. I believe that the Model 70 in its original incarnation was the best rifle ever made on a mass-produced basis. Then came 1964 and the rifle was cheapened to the point of absurdity--a free-floated barrel with 1/8-inch clearance on both sides, worthless impressed checkering, a a stiff action that you could hardly operate from the shoulder. The anti-bind device added later really helped, and Winchester dropped the slick stock finish. But the damage was done. The Remington 700 series was made from the start to be an economically manufactured rifle--it wasn't made to a higher standard and then cheapened, as was the Model 70. I like the Remington Model 700, too, and they cannot be beaten as actions for target rifles. For some reason, rifles with a round-bottom receiver tend to be more accurate than flat-bottom receivers, although you'd think the latter would bed better and be less subject to torque. I suppose it's the rigidly of a "tube-type" receiver. Anyway, I still prefer the Mauser-type extractor in a dangerous-game rifle and it just has a panache that the push feed rifles lack. I also agree with others about the impact of the Savage Accu-Trigger. That innovation finally got the lawyers out of the trigger-pull business. I, personally, would never buy a rifle with a lawyer-trigger, and I never did. I believe that when you buy something new, you shouldn't have to have it "fixed," whether it's a new rifle or a "1911" pistol. Let's hope that neither the new Browning X-Bolt or Winchester Model 70 need "fixing" after purchase for any reason--if they do, they can remain on the dealers' shelves for all I care.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

$1,000- is a lot of money for a gun who's reputation is suspect at best... Face it, it's been 44 years since they produced a top quality product.

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Ralph the Rifleman wrote:By the way, it seems like the Model 70 received so much bashing why would it be resurrected in production?Ralph,'Cause baby boomers are suckers for nostalgia. Pure and simple.Jim

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Both rifles seem like nice shooters, but can the shooting market support all these new models hitting the market do they have a chance of success?By the way, it seems like the Model 70 received so much bashing why would it be resurrected in production?

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from alabamahunter wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Ruger has listened. The new Hawkeye has a much improved trigger over the M77 MarkII. I have a MarkII and my dad just bought a Hawkeye and it has a pretty good trigger that pulls at a little over 4 pounds.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

AnthonyThe picture of the Browning appears to have a German/Austrian look to it. Where is it manufactured and/or the origin of design?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Well, I dropped of the .257 Wby Mag Vanguard for a trigger job today and will have a sub minute of angle rifle with an excellent trigger for less than $500-... Winchester and Browning still have a lot of catching up to do.

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I just posted the news releases fromhttp://www.shootingwire.com/shooting_wire.html?date=2007-10-24

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from John Thompson wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Where is your post jstreet? I must of missed it and now I can't find it. Did you hunt with the guns? What'd ya think of them?

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I scooped you and posted this three days ago on this blog.

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from Frank Fox wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

They both look like sweet rifles. Its amazing how much triggers have turned around in the last few years, and KJ is right--its all because of the accutrigger.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

I love how Savage and their "Accutrigger" has forced the competition to improve. I hope Ruger is listening.

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from MattWV wrote 6 years 25 weeks ago

Let me be the first to say that they'd better plan on turning out some left-handed models.

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