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The Great Barrel Break-In Fad

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December 18, 2007

The Great Barrel Break-In Fad

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

Rifle shooting, like anything else, suffers through fads. There was the moly-coated bullet fad, which left thousands of barrels permanently bemucked with unremovable dark ugh. Then there was the cryogenics fad, in which folks would freeze your barrel for a fee, resulting in an accuracy increase of .00012 percent. And still with us is the great barrel break-in fad.

If you are not familiar with it, the GBBF states that all new barrels must be broken in according to a formula which will smooth the barrel. This consists of firing a single shot, cleaning the bore, firing another shot, cleaning, and so on until you've done it five times. Then you fire five shots and clean, then ten and clean. Under some formulas I've seen, you keep this up for 100 shots.

If this is done, sayeth the GBBF, your bore will be as smooth as glass. It will never foul and your barrel will shoot better than anything Harry Pope ever dreamed of. If you do not follow this procedure, your bore will collect more copper than there is in all the mines of Zambia, your accuracy will be nil, and your kids will develop yaws.

Now let's return to the real world. If a barrel maker wants to turn out a really smooth bore, he will cast a lead slug on the end of a steel rod, charge it with polishing compound, and run it back and forward through the bore a thousand times or so, occasionally casting a new slug when the old one wears down. The back and forth is done by hand, because knowing when to stop depends on "feel." It is a lot of work.

How the shoot-and-clean process duplicates this escapes me. And rough barrels shoot just fine anyway. I've seen cut-rifled bores, broached bores, and hammer-forged bores that looked like the battlefield at the Somme and still shot spectacularly.

Comments (166)

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from LittleR in OR wrote 6 years 12 weeks ago

I think it has been said.It's hit or miss.Either you get a good barrel from the start or not.I have a Winchester 22 model 190 that has many thousands of rounds shot threw it.I shot birds flying with it.Killed enough game with I could fill anyone heres yard 4 feet deep easy.Retired it,bought a Rem.22 viper that I could shoot flies of a wall at 75 feet,any further an I had no idea where the bullets went.Gave it awayGot single shot 12 gauge Savage 30 inch barrel full choke.Killed more game than a full size truck could pull.Bought a Rem. 870 12 gauge 28 inch barrel.Went threw every choke they made.Settled with the turkey choke.Holds a coke can pattern for more than 150 yards.With 3 inch mags.Killing machine for sure.Never been wet,hear stories of how they are rust buckets etc... .If you have the feel an the eye.All you need is a good barrel gun.There are lemons in every thing made now days.

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from airforcewx wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

I don't know what everyones problem with molly is. I have had excellent performance out of it and never had any problems. Only chance I see of a barrel getting nasty is if you never clean the thing. I use molly when prairie dog hunting shooting 500 rounds per day and never had fouling issues, simply clean and you are ready for the next day with no change in accuracy. At 500 yards I would think I would see a problem if there was one.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

Damn you guys are long winded,maybe the holiday spirits.But back to the cleaning thing.Clean your barrel first!I remember the first NIB gun I ever bought. At Kelly's gun shop (saddly gone) in St. Charles,Mo. I looked down the shiney barrel and thought I was ready to go. Luckily I had to go home first and something told me to clean it first. Good thing. After the first swab I don't know if the patch had cosmoline or what on it but I kept cleaning and didn't get to shoot till next day. That barrel may have stopped a bullet or caused undo pressure. Maybe it was in storage for WW3.

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from O Garcia wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hi Mr. Petzal,You forgot to mention that one of your magazine's (and other magazines') poster boys, Kenny Jarrett, was the biggest name responsible for this fad.I still remember one of Ross Seyfried's responses to a reader who asked about breaking in a barrel using the Kenny Jarrett formula. The reader also managed to sneak in another faddish term, "beanfield rifle". So Ross began with "I don't hunt beanfields, usually I go after deer or elk..." and then he went on to say that he owns, has shot, and has witnessed shot, many exquisitely accurate rifles, some of them a century old, that obviously were not "broken in" using the Jarrett technique.Of course, Ross isn't perfect (his departure from the Wolfe magazines, where IMO, he did some of his best work, and subsequent disappearance, became an internet topic a few years back), but he at least had the right perspective.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

25.4 millimeters to an inch makes your 9.6 a .37824... usually .375's are 9.5 but everyone has there own ideas about what is right as we can both attest. Funny thing about those .375's they named them after the groove diameter instead of the actual bore. Well the bank opened six minutes ago and I have a rather large following of children, grandchildren, step children, and a wife of over 20 years that all seem to need more money. Imagine that... time for me to play Santa.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Sarg,.last for today,..gonna go chase bunnys,..I stand corrected you got me by a few years,.. was 14in 64,.my time came 5 yrs later.Also yes different guns03 and 03a3,..you know your stuff.Phoned a friend / mentor last night ,.to say mery Christmass ,.. ( He is WWII vet)He asked how was the hunting this year,. talk turned to guns,.Asked if he still had a springfield I once tried to buy.He said yes ,. and since he is getting on now ,.. maybe sell it to me later this year. AND another 98 brno large ringHad forgoten completly about that one,. only saw it once( purdy thing ) ,..He "liberated" that one. Apparently was hunting rifle of German officer.AND,.. this maybe too good to be true not sure but a 9.6 x 72 or 74 ?Sure of diamiter but not case length. Think this is metric equivilant of 375 but dont have manual here now,.. any idea?For sure I dont need more guns,. actually at this stage of the game trying to unencumber to some extent ,.. to much "stuff" just slows me down,.But because of who he is and what he is would make sure thse guns have a protected place with me until it doisent matter to me anymore.Ok now the bunnys,.. are in trouble.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Ed J , If i had a good Mauser action that i really wanted to keep, I would rebarrel with a good barrel in a cal. I liked. If I didn't think I could i could reballel my self, any good gun smith would and set the head space for you , you could do the rest and have a nice rifle. The headspace is very important. Someone mentioned about the primers not being flattened due to excesive pressure, too much headspace can cause that also.. After the powder is ignited, the case swells to seal the pressure and the bullet starts down the barrel , the primer will protrude depending on headspace, the case will cool and be pushed back against the bolt, reseting the primer. all this takes place before the bullet has left the barrel. So have the barrel headspaced by a gunsmith

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Yohan, I don't know how old you are,but in 1964, Iwas in Cal. at Vandenburg AFB ,and then some of theNew Sptingfield 03a3 did sell from the DCM for around $80.00 Maybe a little less, Remember there were mod. 03 and mod 03A3.Ed J. I did not say not to rebarrel the91, The 91 was a good action, the 98K larg ring was a little stronger. There were a lot of diferent Models of those Mausers.. I saw a 95 still in 8MM the other day and almost bought it to tinker with when the weather gets bad,.I do like the 98 in the 7mm, one of my favorite Military rounds to sporterize. I think the 8 mm (a good round) is just a little big for whitetail here where I live.Not long a go I had a Argentina Mauser in 7mm and sporterized it then sold it when I turned down the bolt handle to clear the scope, in was nice. the bolt was made from what i thought to be Nickle steel. cleaned up real nice. Wish i haden't sold it now.. By the way the mausers are realy hard to drill for a scope.. there is a trick to it. Some one makes a scope mount for some that don,t need drilling,

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

SargeI must be a smidge older than you.My 8 X 57 ( thinking back ) was a jount effort on xmass present,..My Dad ( the ole gunsmith) said if I got $16 he would put inthe next $16,.Which if my calculator is not wrong means $32 ,.. dont think there was sales tax back then so thats what it cost.For NRA EXC conditionA springfield -06 if memory serves was $42,. M1 Garand somethig less than $100 and G-43 (8x57) was $7998 K large rings were from $29 to $36 ,. dependinh on where.I got mine at Montgomery Wards belive it ore not.Funny what you rememeber from when you were young.

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Well fellers i done spent the hole day at the horsepital in Charleston getting raphie out. We had to wate a long time fer the doctor and i dont know why cause they said he was the head psychiatric resident. I figgured that meant he was working on ralphie's head and lived in the building so why did it take him so long to get to us anyhow? He had MD after his name must have meant mighty doctor. he said ralphie was OK but has an aggressive demeanor. i said that demeaner ralphie got the more aggresive he was. The doc agreed and let him leave with me. I guess the doc was upset hisself cause he said his wife had just run off with some horse trader from michigan in a red desel dodge. They had been celebrating in a roadhouse when some local redneck nocked the feller flatter than pee in the road and the old gal called the law. Doc said he would have paid a $1000 to a seed it and ralphie told him he would set up an instant replay for that kind of cash. Doc told ralphie to lay off fightin and shootin ffer a while. I told doc that was our lives. Doc said he had a nice rifle so we down to this BMW (stands fer BIG MEDICAL WAGON i guess) and he pulled out the nicest purtiest and best built rifle i ever saw and said a Mr. Forbes made it fer him. Mr. Forbes must know more about rifles than any of us fellers just looking and not even firing that fine masterpeace of engenering. I had no idea anybody could make a rifle that good. I had to have it. He said it was a .222 . I said that i never heerd of such and he said it was a lot like the army catridge. I knowed that was a lie cause we shoot 3006 just like yohan and sarg said and by gosh they know if anybody does. I asked doc how he broke in the barrel and he told me and said that he never used any wd40 on it but once considered using JB. I told him not to trust that dang JB down at b & m Pawn and not to use it. He showed me a herd of targets that he said was 5 shots at a hunert yards but i knowed he was lieing again. Any fool could see there was only one hole but he must have been using ragged bullets cause the whole was bigger than a 22 and the edges were not smothe. Anyhow i told him i would trade him a shiny luger, a new plastic reminton, a real nice custom colored Savage, a Hawes 25 acp (stands for A CRAPPY PISTOL), the 742 and since he knew a feller who was looking for livestock i'd add on a reel nice mule. Doc smiled & swallered two or three pills from a little brown bottle and said he would think about it. Bet he had had a quick drawing accident in the past cause he walked on a walkng stick and shore acted like a smartas I bet i never hear from him but he does have one of the best rifles ever made in America and nobodie can deny that.

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

sargso you think it's not a good idea to rebarrel a 91 mauser to 22-250. About 20 years ago I did that.uuuhhh now what do I do with it?

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

yohan, your father speaks the truth, I've seen them but forgot about the springfield.. The Mausers had 4 . I can remember when for $80.00 you could have a new Springfield 03A3, 30.06 cfcourse, but were great shooters.. very good action to build on. I never liked the Enfields, the clamp around the grip was very ugly, but avery good shooter also.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Sargya,.. mine has 4 ,.. but as I said it was brand new when I got it ,..I trutfully don't think I have put more than 3500 rounds through it maybe less,.. and the barrel still looks pristineDidn't use it for some years but it is cleaned religiously.I can shoot (consistantly) 1 1/2 groups of five at 100 with it.Three will get under 1 moawhich is OK with me,..I don't shoot at stuff much over 200 yds anyway.Truthfully try to keep it way less.Maybe a new barrel would do better, but with accuaracy like that,I would try changing load before new barrel if I thought I needed more accuracy,. which I dont ,.I'm not a competition shooter.But if I draw down on something the size of deer standing at 250 ,.. that animals actuarial statictis change drasticly and immediatly.The other truth is, I hate to shoot past even 100 and I will go to grate lengths not to.IE shoting v/s hunting,.. Probabaly part of that is that for many years I bow hunted ,. just havent had the time last 3 or 4.So 1 1/2 at 100 seems to fill the bill,.for me.However if that changes with new primers ,. Ill let ya know.I never saw one,.. but my father said that durring WWII springfield manufactured a sniper rifle 30-06 with only two lands and gooves,.Aparently much care was taken with the barels ,.and it was known to do the nasty on the enimy out to 1000 yds with predictabe regularity.A long poke ,. back then.That I found pretty intersting.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Someone was talking the other day on this blog that their rifle burnt out about 3" from the muzzle, isn't this a little rare as the bore should burn-out close to the chamber or throat first if im right.. have anyone of you guys seen this before? as the throat burns out, the bullet has to jump (or travel without the spin) for a little space thus causing a higher pressure once the bullet engages the riffling. On some riffle while reloading, I've left the bullet a little long so the bullet can engage the rifling, thus giving a better length to the other reloads.. try this the next time you load for a older rifle.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Ripcord, this barrel swabbing to me is really working on the lands as well, thats means a worn out barrel tome. how do you work on the grooves but not the lands..hey yohan, ever look down the barrel (unloaded ) and count the lands in that 98 mauser.. some of the old military rifles only had 4 grooves. this was to save time at mass producing weapons.. always re barrel when possible..

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from RIPCORD wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

MERRY CHRISTMAS GANG!BELIEVE ME THAT I AM NOT A PRO IN THE BARREL BUSINESS. DO KNOW A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT METAL. THE BULLET SHOULD RIDE THE GROVES, IF CLEAN, JUST FINE WITHOUT HELP FROM BURRS. JUST LOOK AT ANY FIRED BULLET. TO GET MAX VELOCITY, LOGIC WOULD SAY THAT INSIDE THE BARREL NEEDS TO BE SMOOTH AS POSSIBLE. IF I AM GOING TO CLEAN A PIECE OF GOOD METAL, I USE THE FINEST STEEL WOOL OR EVEN A POLISHING COMPOUND. LOOK AT ANY GOOD METAL THAT HAS BEEN MACHINED WITH A MICROSCOPE AND YOU WILL SEE BURRS AND ROUGH PLACES. I'D SAY GET RID OF THEM AND KEEP YOUR BARREL CLEAN FOR MAXIMUN PERFORMANCE.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Wes Im stuck up here in the land of snow, ice, andScnda-hoovians ,.. nothin to doSso been tryin to rememeber when it was u and i got learnen from Ole Mrs tacket,..thinkin meby it was long about 2ond may third grade,. The ole gunsmith and his wife was havin a bit of a financial problem ,. and I get the dimm ecolection they use to take me to that grocery store up close to the Hyway ,.tell me to go in and get a candy bar ,.. and then be gone when I come out,.I think when I showed back up at the shack ,. third or fouth time they wus plumb tuckered out ,.So if memeory serves,.. thyhad me off workin fer folks sos they could get back on there feet a bit,..I doo rememebr a skinny ole school marm who thaougt my blond hair was what she called "juxtaposed" to the local skin hue and hare color ,.. and i rememebr it was a lot hotter where I livedd in that shed,.. than whar I come from,.So who knows meby that was mr tacket whos husband had that Elsie smith scatter gun,..,..

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Ya know thinkin back 30yars,..a neighbor said he needed some quick cash,..something about his girlfriends dog needed to get spayed,..said he had this great little Remmington auto 22 he would sell me at a bargan cause he needed the cash,.. dont recall what I paid ,.. but made him sighn a paper that said this gun was not used in a crime lately r at least since he owned it.Went to sight it in ,..and that gun would empty a magazine slicker than modle 12 winchester fulla wd40 ,opperated by one of te local speed freaks. and it would shoot at 25 yd almost all them bullets in nearly the same hole,..Only problem,.. the hole was 18 inches low and left at 7 oclock ,..never did get that one figuired out,.. any ideas ?Couldnt sell it in good conciance and never saw said vendor again. So finally took a hack saw to it and junked it.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Well,.. were in western Wi ( few days R&R) not to far from where they grow all them thar big antlered deer.The weather is given us a butt whuppin .. ..Last night, rain then sleet then snow ,.. now ocasional whiteout conditions.Wish I had my Mauser ,..didn't bring any real toys other than the two 870s I picked up.Think maybe even the Scandahoovians hunker dowen in this stuff ,.. for shore ,. the rabbits and the grouse aint gonna co-oprate ,. so looks like its a day sittin on my butt ,..Anybody got any good huntn stories? Or Mule storysCan smell coffee now and I think sausage,.. oh ya ,..I'll check in later.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Sarg ,. good mornming ,. it appears someone took a nip at Mr cooper,. YUK YUKWsnt me Coop,. although have to say ,.. wd4o manhatten might tend to wake up 5 out of the 7 voices ,.. which would be confusing.Yes Sir Sarge I realize 50gr 4064 is max according to the loading manuals. dont think I would try to push it more either,.. no need.Here the thing ,.I ve been aroud guns my entire life ,. and a few things that trickled down from the old gunsmith is that there is always exceptions to every rule.Thusly assuming exatly 50 gr,..or 49 or what ever,.. pick a numbet.If you were to use different cases and primer combinations ,.. some will be more efficiant with lower pressure,. and some less effciant with higher pressure. Cronograph agees as I have tried a number of different loading componengts over the years.Looking at the fired cases ,.. there are litteraly no signs of excess pressure. First sighn usully flattened primer ,and from there it goes.. but not even that .A few years a go we had a man lost ( not me) ,.. we were firing signal shots after dark,. with Wardens permision.The old Gunsmith was still alive then an with us hunting.He told me latr (after we got the guy out) ,.. that he noticed a few clinkers ( unburned powder) in the muzzle flash when I fired .If the enery is not released ,. there is in most cases less pressure. Which is why later in the year,. Im gonna back off the charge ,. try magnum primers and slowy move back up ,.. may not need 50 grains Ya know.I know,.. what the "H " if it aint broke dont fix it right.I agree ,. with that too.I shot a big doe with it (8 x 57) using present loads this year .. hit her just behind the shoulder at 75 steps.Probabaly some where close to 75 yards. Pretty sure that one had wings before her shoulder touched the ground,.. so no performance complaints as is.Gald I did not hit the shoulder ,. that would have been big mess.Simple explanation is that Im pretty analytical so by nature and I like to toy things out ,.seeking max performace.Be it rifle ballistic or portfolio performance,.to me all the same.That is the why of that,.and no ,.. it is NOT a 95,.. it is a large ring Mauser 98,.. my favorit action of all time,..Probbaly havent shot ALL of the modern day bolts ,.. but think without too much wuffing I can say have shot a bunch and the only one i want is Mauser 98But thanks very much for waiving the warning flag ,..saftey firstis what will keep us all in business,..I mean the business of recreational hunting.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Thank maybe sombodi done got into the cookin cherry or mebethe last of the WD40..

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

OOPS! I crossed fired!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

I do like the Governor of New Mexico. Of what little I do know, he is the only one on the Democratic ticket I would vote for on that side and not all Democrats are bad. Their just misguided!Lets elect Neal Boortz for President!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

WARNING! If you are intellectually challenged, do not read the following. Food for thought follows for the intellectuals that can read and understand the following to come to their own thought and conclusion to realize what today’s Judas Goat is really is and how it affects others.I set back and see how the left can use those including minorities and to lead their own people beholding to some ideology that will lead to economic suppression and/or eradication. The UN in itself is using countries and individuals as Judas Goats. Follow them; follow them because they say it’s ok because they know they say and they say they know it’s best for you! But what they do know is at the end of the day, they will be safe and sound, well cared of and you may have died following this Judas Goat!Think about it and how people of yesterday and today are being exploited for someone’s own personal gain.I see the Judas Goat as The Democratic party!Judas goatFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaA Judas goat is a trained goat used at a slaughterhouse and in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared. Judas goats are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.The phrase has also been used to describe a goat that is used to find feral goats that are targeted for eradication. The Judas goat is outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red and then released. The goat then finds the remaining herds of feral goats, allowing hunters to exterminate them.

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Them two brothers at B & M pawn, JB and JC did stick it to me. If the other brother JD had been ther he wouldn't a done it.I aint goin back to Bowel& Movement pawn any more The reason I gave that mule tradin feller only half a box about 200 .22 shells was that i shot up the other half in the plastic reminton. i tried to break in the barrel just like you fellers said how it ought to be done. i fared a round and clean the barl with my brush and stick and some solvet. The solvet will remain a secret but it has 2 letters and 2 numbers in it so you fellers will probably figger it out anyhows. Dang rfile stuttered and hung up so i decided to do them once at a time. Then i decided to try shorts but they didn't feed any better than the regular 22s not as good. i tried and don't do this at home to put in a magnum since the box says 22 but they wouldn't fit no matter how much wd40 i sprayed on them. i a good mind to get shed of the plastic reminton, the desel savage, and that mule right after the furst of the year. ralphie will know what to do bout this when he gets out of the hospital lockup room that the jailhous moved him to

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Boys i know what ye are going through and shore feel sory for ye. I never had a lab but know they are good dogs. i have had several pointers that broke my hart when they went on. I put up markers for three of them and carved their names in the stone. My huntin buddies tell me that pointers never get as close to ye as labs and looks like thats true I offer my sympathies to each and all that have lost good huntin friends this yer both 2 legged and 4, i shore do mean this to be sincer and not tryin to be funny at allRemember the Lord watches over us all including fools like me

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Yeah Ishawooa, that's what I miss the most too. Whenever I pulled into the driveway after work who was there with a smile to greet me? Not my kids, wife, or anyone else. Just my best friend wagging that tail so his whole body swayed, rubbing up against me and letting me know that I was his best friend too and always unconditionally loved... I need to quit before I cry.

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Dr. Ralph:Toby, my yellow lab of 13 years, passed away this year also. I let him out of the house and he didn't come back. I found him under the kid's trampoline beside his kennel. The vet had told me Toby had cancer and would not see another year through. The whole family cried and grieved for a week. We buried him under our favorite tree and one that he often enjoyed laying under in his old age. My wife also got a tombstone for him. He was a member of the family and will be missed forever. So many duck and pheasant hunts to recall but mostly just that big old lab smile and swinging his "killer" tail thumping my pickup as he walked past it.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

I lost my best friend this summer too. Black Lab that had been my bird and duck hunting partner for thirteen years I think, not exactly sure when he joined the family. Sadness doesn't even begin to describe how I felt when we dug the hole and put him in the ground. Even got him a tombstone that says Midnight... the best dog in the world.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Wes your "buddy" at the pawn shop is a better horse trader than you. Those plastic Rem's aka jam-a-matics are good for two things. Propping open doors and boat anchors, and that's only if you have a very small boat. I've got one that's never been able to empty the mag. They have three designs for the mag already, and the good folks at Remington sent me their newest version about a month ago saying they finally got it right but that old boy on the phone must have been a REMF once upon a time because the ordnance they sent me couldn't put three bullets in the chamber in a row to save it's life. Maybe if I soak it in WD-40 overnight....

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Fellers i done got ole Lusifer back. This feller in the red dodge said that fine mule thru a fit when he cranked up that rattling old desel and purt near tore up his trailor. fell went in to quiet Lusi and Lusi turned on him. Wanted his money back but i refused till he warped me in the ribs with his crutch. Scared him when i spit up blood so he let up before i had decided to hurt him. I wound up takin the mule back and given him half a box of thruderheads bullets to hep out on his gas. he said i would here from his lawyer but I an't scart cause raphie went to the kommuniti colege and got a dgree in criminal justis so he can handle it if he gets out in time. When ralphie went there i laffed cause i din't see why he had to go to school too learn to be a criminl, just no justis to it. Now thats funny too.Anyhow the feller with the dodge was happy when i showed him how he could go over it with wd40 on the hinges tailgate and sech and it would quiet it down. i put a few squirts in that motor to see if it would quiet it down too but it didnt hep much.He had a M1 that said 762 on the barel. i told him i had a reminton that was a 742 you know the one with that fars the 243 wincesters that is confusing me. When we looked at the shells shore enough his was a mite bigger bullets but same body as mine so now i know why mine is a 742 and his is a 762Afore they left i opened the glove box to put wd40 on it and saw a old nickel colt laying there. I says to my self, self these must be a pair of real shooters and his galfriend who was setting there slapped me right up side the head. She said that both her hooters were reel.Anyhow he wouldn't trade the colt for the plastic reminton 22 and take Lusi as boot. i got to go docter my head

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

yohan, 50 gr 4064 is a max losd for that bullet weight,150 gr. use with caution, and that should be2900FPS.. The mauser 98k large ring should be the strongest action around, the Jap.6.5 and 7.7 are strong action in the early models but got a little weak at the end of the war.. I used to load both, but the brassfor the 6.5 is almost imposible to find.. The 7.7 can easily be made from 30.06 brass with a .312 bullet. Now, are you sure you know the mauser 98 action from the 95? and if you do indeed use the mauser 98, besure it's the 98K large ring.

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from wes wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

FIRSt all you fellers lay off my friend yohan cause we used to go to school togather. mrs tacket remember him and me to. i took my mule to the Satday stock sell and got $350 for him from some fool that drove up in one of them red desel dodges so i didn't wait around fer him to load ole lucifer up into that purty little trailor hes got. anyhow i stopped by the nursing home and tried to buy the elsie smith from mrs tacket but she do give it to her grandson. I traded that ole dollar grade ithaca fer a brand spankin new plastic remington .22 and a hole box of thunderbolts bulletts, fool traded even down at B & M pawn i recomend them to anybody. Its been a plum good Christmas season so far. got to go now cause i done got togather enough cash to get ralphie out of the slammer so we can go huntin. Yohan com on down and let me know when you get to WV. i'll give you directions. Got to go fer now cause a feller in a red dodg jis pulled up in front of my doublewid. Must be bringing over a heffer or somethin cause hes got a bent up trailor hooked to it. i can see out my winder one of his arms is in a cast and he reching in the pickup and pullin out a crutch. i better go hep him with whatever he needs

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

ISHWOOASon of gun did you just open the memory banks,..I am now in upper midwest and we are waiting for storm to come through tonight ,.Fireplace is all primedand I'm haven,.. just wee drop of "Johnny" on the rocks,..Kllled most of the wolves that needed killing before the 1st this yearSo today is day of badly needed rest.Was gonna hunt but Im beat from,last week. If your in my business last week make you think about getting a Job and Burger King.Anyway,.. Ya,.. the Mauser is a beauty ,.. and now glad I didnt rebarrel to -06,..its a classic .Actually had a German guy offer me just plain too much for it once .It apparently reminded him of the hunting in Germany before Hitler. This was easily 20 years ago now .Im 57 and he was then well into his 70's so liley he's gone now.If I was gonna sell it,. it would have been to him just from the look in his eyes when he saw it,..his eyes actually got damp ,.. such is the power of good hunting memeories,..But I couldnt,.No,.. when I go that gun is goin with me,..like Da VIkings yaBut main reason for this post is your buddes short hair pup. my god,.. thought I would bust a gut,.. chewed up wireing on balistics lab and then decided to wreak havock on pressents,..Again a classic,.. reminds me of my chesapeak pup.If anyoe could bottle the smell of a hunting dog pup they would be a billiare in a few months.What I rememeber most is the big clunky feet ,.. the puppy smell and uqunchable curriosity ,.. and the the size of the "dumps" those littel creature are capable of producing ,. amazing !!Anyway to recount theCheapeak pup christmass story,Yes it was christmass ,. I was married only few years and we had just bought our first houseAt that time my spounce was still sane YUK YUK.It was tough sledding that year finacially ,. but Nov was pretty good so I got a pretty good check in beggining of Dec ,.. Think it was most of 15 K ,a lot back then .. which took the pressure off for Holidays.Anyway the Chessie pup was still a "dead graas" colored furry lump with four legs,.. giant feet mouth and head, all out of proportion ,. but cute as newborn fawn.I came home on a Fri with the dough ( check) ,. proving for the 20th time to my wife.I was actually not a dead beat,and that I might even be able to keep up with the scorched earth credit card deficit form of spending she had addopted YUK YUK ..We had few drinks odered Pizza and played with the puppyTHe tree was up and prsents had been gathering ,..there were 8 or 10,..it was a cozy setting made a lot better by the knowledge I could pay the bills.Intending to deposit the check the following Monday I set in on a dresser under a Bible. my mother had given me.The night wore on the fire got low and we all went to bed.Next moprning I was up and out the door bunny hunting ,..My mother inlaw was coming who I liked then ,. and she liked rabbit ,. so great excuse.The following Monday I went t o get the check and couldnt find it ,..anywhere,.. looked high and low ,. trying to rememeber if maybe I had gone and looked at it after having a few of beers on Sat,.. maybe missplaced it ,.. nothing just vansihed .Went to work came back that night looked all over,. nothing ,.. wifee asked me to get a fire going ,and in same breath did i deposiet check .. said no not yet ,..Went to the small stack of fire wood in the garage ,. picked up a few pieces and noticed a piece of light green paper way down between some pices. Took fire wood n ,. came back picked up light green papaer and there it was ,. my check with about 18000 pin holes from puppy teeth.Only think I can think of was my sent was on it ,. and anything i touched he wantd to lick ,. somehow the little $hi!nudged the Bibble off the check and carried it around,.. who knows when ,.and dropped it behind a door or maybe even in the presents ,.Wwhen I got up to get more wood ( he followed me every where ) maybe took it out there between trips hen door wa open.He had seen me go there frequenly for woodBut truthfully I just dont know how the hell that little dog did what he did .. but I found the chck and all was well,..Next day he got out of pen we had fixed up in the laudry room.Where upon in hs puppy mind every present under the tree needed opeoning ,.Then of course itg ets better Form what i was told by my wife he chased the cat up the tree which of course fell over breaking ornmants amd generally scaring the $hi! out of him ,..So ran off just far enough to to escape said falling christmass tree.Tured around and when was sure the tree want chasing him apparently ihis puppy mind decided it was time to poop ,.. big time.I walkd in just after all this happened and he was siting there looking far all the world like he Just had no idea waht all the fuss was about ,..I Loved that dog truthfully more than most people ,.He lived 15 years,. and when I had to put him down I was drunk for most of two days,.Never forget that ChristmassHappy Holidays to all

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

ahhh yup ah yup a yupyp ,.. ah did fer sher mean to sugest rebarel that monster ,.. and I ah sho nuf is sorry as a scalded hound to have ruin't yer dayHowevr .308 referes to 4 thosanths goove diamiter times two .30+8= .308 if you didnt know.I realize no name rocker feller scientists like you jes needds sometin to pic at ,..but dam son ists christmasYall shore you aint my former spouce,.. from hell ??and if you aint my x maybe you two shoud date.MR no name it seems mite get to be at times a Pi$$y little fella,.YUK YUK

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

YohanYou said you were going to rechamber 8 x 57 to 30-06? 8mm is .323 diameter and .30cal is .308 diameter. Rechamber?Like to see that!Yohan, you couldn’t hit a bull but with a base fiddle by doing so! Are you sure it wasn't rebarreling?

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohan thanks for your input. It sounds like you have a very nice 98 and sure makes me wish I had been fortunate enough to pick up on some jewels like you did when I was young. The BRNO that my buddy converted was one of three he bought from Century and it was pretty much a piece of sh*t until he reworked it. Total action job initially after pulling every thing else off it to be thrown away. It had been carried a lot but appeared to have been shot only a little. He's got a nice piece now. The same shorthair pup that chewed up his ballistic lab wiring got into the Christmas presents under the tree last night. He's rewrapping them today and wondering what a .416 will do to a shorthair. I'm certain that it is only a momentary thought that will never be acted upon. Again thanks.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Don't worry Yo... I know all about Theo. I never engage unarmed opponents, and you two are loaded for bear.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

oops cpi = consumer price index ,.Meant sami cup

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ya RalphI figured it was you ,..Sly you aint ,..But,... what the hellMarry Christmas anyway ,..Meby wen i get growed up my pelling will cach up to mymo-betta a$$ pects .Oh and Raph do not by the Mule from Theadore ,..Theadore IS a sly one,..and he aint broke neither.You know how much 1/2 mile of fence cost ?I woulda had that cussed animal on a barbacue spit for the neighbors.Uless his name was mayb Palor Budy or Bruce ,..or Ralp YUK YUK ,..Then just blast his a$$ with a load of 8's

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

IshawooaI have a brno 98 WWII vintage ,..got it when I was 16-17.It was a "find" I found out later .It was bran-spankin new ,.. still full of cosmoline,..and I mean full,.. barrel and the action.St one time was going to rechamber it ( from 8 x 57 to 30-06) but then I began to hand load.That changed my mind ,. the gun will shoot pretty well ,.Meaning 5, in 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds.Which being honest is probabaly as good as i can shoot a hunting rifle consistantly.It wears a nice italian walnut stock and has been worked so no longer battle rife but no targetr job either.The laods I settld on for that gun were 153 grain Hornady ( says 150 but they really are 152 - 153) according to powder scale.Remington cases and 50 grains of IMR 4064 they come out the end at just under 2900 fps.Im gonna back the laod op just asmige and try magnum primers tho ,.. then move chatge back up ,. I actually think fps will crawl up near 3000 fps. in 24 inch barrel.This laod does not exceed sami recomendations for 98's. which is 50000 cpiBut looking at the cases after fireing ,. absolutly no indication that action wouldnt take more.Also ( brief aside) after WWIII think one of the ordinaceworks ,. Rock Island comes to mind but not sure conducted pressure tests to see which bolt rifle would let go first.According the the old gunsmith ( my father ) the Springfield blew first ,. then the Mauser 98,. and then the Jap bolt ,.sorry ,..I do not rememebr the name or caliber of that weapon.Apparently the loads they had to feed those rifles in order get them to blow were simply hellatious ,.All guns ( actions) going far beyond expectations.So not to play expert but from personal experiance ,..once the lugs are checked for bearing surface and headspace not an issue ,. i thing these old actions are pretty capable of handling higher pressures,. not of coure the 95's and earlier But a 98 in good shape is the end all to me.Also metric calibers ,.. but thats just a preference thing.Shoot two 180 pond deer,. one with a 30-06 and one with 8 x 57,.would wager significant coin ,. the deer could not tell the difference.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey Guys, the 7.62 NATO is a little hotter, like I said, the Gov. knows what it will be shot in but a commercial co. has no Idea what you will put it through... Either way, I'm not afraid to shoot it in my Rem. and would love to have a good 98K large ring action to build something on. Maybe a good 30.06. Hey guys, when the gun is clean and ready to put up for the season, don't forget the soft brush to put on a very thin coat of a good gun oil. ( Rem Oil and a good shaving brush will work wonders.) you all have a good Christmas and agood hunting year. By the way, went down on The creek yesterday and shot a box uo 17 HMR in a new Marlin Bull barrel Rifle. love it Maybe tomorrow I'll take my new H&r bull barrel .204 down. love the shooting sport. If you guys had been good this year Santa would have brought you the piece you had your eye on...243, 338, 30.06 , you know. stay away from WD-40 for your guns,

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

SA:Thanks for the info. I believe that it might be Chuck Hawks' page that you are remembering. I had forgotten about it but will check. My old Taylor is on a Finnbear magnum action with a 24 inch Lilja. Using 400 gr Hornadys I get about 2375 fps but have never known more about the pressure than what the brass and bolt told me. Accuracy is about 1 to 1.5 inch at 100. John Wooters influenced me to build this rifle but I am yet to make an Alaskan or African hunt that requires it. Nevertheless it is fun to tinker with as my buddy found out shooting load data on .458 brass that he located in my notebook. You are right Winchester should have jumped on it but instead later on loaded .416 Rem in the M-70 as you are no doubt aware. Great round.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

IshSeeing as the .416 Taylor is a .458Win Mag, necked down (something Winchester themselves should have done...) and it pushes those 350 grainers out at about the same clip as both .416 Rem and .416 Rigby, the pressures do have to be a bit on the higher side. There was a site posted a few topics back where all the ballistics from just about any cartridge known to man are listed, Ethan Hawke authors it if memory serves, someone help out on that one please?SA

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sorry I flinched!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

YooperJackI really thought you were joking with us!I think the 7.62 NATO is hotter than factory, especially the 172 grain special ball M118. It shoots 3 clicks higher at 1000 yards over 168 grain match

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sarg,THANKS for the link on the .308 vs 7.62. The author and his methods seem very sound.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My neighbor just built a .416 Taylor on a BRNO Mauser that is dated 1948. I can't find any pressure numbers for the Taylor but figure that it should be somewhat similiar to the .338 and .458 Win but less than the .416 Rem. Collectively what is your opinion of this combination and does anyone know the max pressure for the Taylor? The rifle is built and has been fired about twenty times so this question is after the fact and just to satisfy my curiosity. The guy has a ballistics lab with a strain gauge but his German shorthair somehow recently rearranged the wiring. If anyone happens to know or have an opinion please reply.MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EACH OF YOU AND TO YOUR FAMILIES. MAY GOD BLESS IN A VERY SPECIAL WAY THOSE OF US THAT REMAIN IN UNIFORM.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Chev Jim, It is not a bad idea to chamber the Older Mauser actions in .308.. The mod. 98k used the a very good action for the 30 cal line.. Brownell sold Santa Barbra actions which were Mauser 98 k large ring actions for many years. may still do so. I don't have their cat. anymore but I'm sure they still do.. The mauser large ring has been chambered(Remember, the chamber is in the new barrels) for many bullets. The older 95 mausers may not be as good but the 98k is one of the strongest action ever produced.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey guys, concerned with shooting .308 win. in guns chambered for 7.62 NATO or just the opposite... The gov. knows the cond. of their weapons, they may be hotter, Comercial co.s don't know what you are going to stick the .308 in, so to protect themself, they don't load as hot as the Gov... as per. www.smellysmleshooters.net. I don't shoot the 7.62 NATO in my Rem. 700 because i don't have any. Would I shoot the 7.62 NATO in my Rem. 700, yes if the bullet was right. No armour piercing..

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

If you want to ruin a great firerm continue to use that gook WD 40. It builds up like tar on your hands. Use a quality cleaner such as Gun Scrubber then a oil that Rem makes. If hunting in extreme freezing weather, better wipe allthat oil off and use dry graphit. When thru hunting for season, clean well and oil litely and wipe off excess. be sure and run a oily cloth down the bbl to get a coating insede to oprevent rust. When next season begins, run another lightly oiled cloth down the tube and then wipe with a dry one. Now go shoot and don;t clean till season is over.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Clay CooperI'm sorry. I had always heard that WD-40 was derived from fish oils. I don't troll for Salmon, but I live near Lake Michigan and heard that it works for Salmon, Browns and Steelhead. Since I had more than one source, I ASSUMED it was true. We all know what assume means. It never occurred to me to Google WD-40 as you did.Again, I'm sorry for this mistake.YooperJack

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

yooperjackWD-40 is an oil derived from fish?Man, what have been drinking/smoking!WD40 is not an oil!!!• Welcome to WD-40 * About Us: Our HistoryIn 1953 , a fledgling company called Rocket Chemical Company and its staff of three set out to create a line of rust-prevention solvents and degreasers for use in the aerospace ...www.wd40.com/AboutUs/our_history.html

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

boys I dont even now what you are a talkin about can't make a lick of cents out of any of itShore hope i did not make anybody mad caus i shor don't want to upset you fellers All of you are lots smarter than me shor as my name is Theodore Wesley Partlow and i will be the first to say it and mrs tacket can vouch that my learnin was not so good back in about sixty. I never said that mule was broke to ride but he pulls a plow reel good. Jus park our desel pickup a long ways from the feld that you are a plowin. SOB tore down pert near haf mile of fence last time i left the old dodge idlin near him and he smelt the fums I shot at him with my 742 but must have used too much wd40 in the barel caus i missed Say there anothe case where the 742 is a reminton but uses 243 wincester bullets 5 shots and didn't cut a hair but did wing the plow twice on the share and once on the handel does you reckin the wd40 has somethin to do with leading the running critter

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Another spelling cop? Damn Yohan you hurt my feelings... you know I signed that letter between the lines.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

HMMMMM ,.Well Wes,..you one sly dog you are and it appears I was right,..We do have jess a bit of a wuff in wit da chickens here now,..takes one to know one I guess,..But damn if I rememeber Wes livin in WV ,.but my early years werent the best so maybe thet rented me out for a few years that I dont recal.I did have the pleasure of makin the accuaintance of West Virginian,.. many moons ago,,.But that boy was dangerous,. when he drank liquor ,.. dam fool wouldn't back down from a elephant ,..I liked him all the same though ,..the man had cohonesLost track of him in the 80'sProbably got killed by a elephant.As to our mutual school marm ,.. Im bettin ,. we got another spellin cop,..lurkin in the thick stuff,. like a coyote ,.. nip at ya,.. when your backs trned ,.. but never in a hunert years ,. get him to come at you from the front,..wd40 ?Think the other guys are ( as in each one) right to the extent that experiance has taught them ,..but if I had to pick a winner it would be Bubba and Cooper as I know the properties they mention to be true.Watch that mule now ,. my grand pappy had one ,.. real good animal but for some reason hated hound dogs ,.. dam thig would chase hound dogs all day,.. if you let em.

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I JUST REMEMBEREd that ole man tackets double barel was a elsie smith and not a barker. mrs tacket i would like to see it and if you still got it let me know. in the meanwhile don't be spraying any of that wd40 on it and are you willin to trade for a good mule since it looks like yohan dont want it. i bet the depty would let ralphie out at least for Christmas if i gave him that ole gun that still wool shur made my luger turn shiny will it stay that way

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

THanks boys, i have putwd40 on fishing lures for a long time like Yohan says, shore works. Bubba now i know why that old ithaca dollar grade single barrel is so dark where ye grip it its that dang wd40 asoaking in probably aint worth a dollar any moreI noticed that one of my old elementar school marms wrote in must have been mrs Tackett. I did not know that Yohan evern lived in WV and went to school with me and had mrs tackett too. small world here we all done got. Yohan why did ye leave WV? come on back and we'll have that bear hunt and remember that raphie is a dang good cook when it comes to boilin and rosting ber hams. bet you have eat some when you was a youngin and really miss it. Merry Christmas Mrs. Tackett you must be near a hundert and does old man tacket still got that purty double barrel it was a barker or something like that? thanks to everybody yall are good folks one and all. did yall know that mr dave writes in my huntin and fishin magazin thats how i found this here bogg

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WesNuthin' wrong with WD-40. Ya gotta understand that the stuff is a solvent, not a lubricant! Apply liberally, wipe down to a thin film and will protect firearms very well.If you use WD-40, don't allow it to accumulate on wood. Being a petroleum product, WD-40 has a nasty habit of breaking down the connective tissue in the wood, ergo, your stock begins to weakend and fall apart. This is especially true in the wrist of most stocks.Wipe down with WD-40 (spray it on a rag, not on the gun) and stand the firearm muzzle down to keep oil from saturating the stock.Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WD-40 is an oil derived from fish. Many people coat lures with it to fish in Lakes Superior and Michigan. This apparently helps for Trout and Salmon, but not Walleye. As such, it probably breaks down a lot quicker than petroleum based productsYooperJack

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from Larry wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wes, WD 40-once had a gunsmith show me a box full of ruined trigger's from it, was told by instructor's in office machine school stuff is tabo for use, bought a high standard 22 that took 2 years to clean trigger ass'y. to get crap out, taxidermist recomended polishing mt. goat horn's with it (work's great!). Long story short, it turns to laquer! I rcommend do not use on moving part's. Buy a product made for gun lubricant that say's so on label-so many choice's! Hope this help's.

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from jay wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I've switched over completely to plain old Rem-Oil. There are more hi-tech ways to get guns clean and other oils. But I wanted to clean trigger groups, rifle bolts, (& house door locks) that was simple to do, quick, and very effective. I spray down, let soak 15 minutes, spray down again, shake off and reinstall. I have tried a bunch of different products but Rem Oil turned out to be the most practical.

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

now that Mr. Cooper is one smart feller jus like Yohan. I tell you why its cause those boys down the road at Dogulass barrel factory told me the same thing as Mr. Cooper. the part i got was that it kept water from getting into still. I didn't even know that it did but it does. Water shore will go into a mule but not desel (like larry says thats funny don't care who you are. thanks for all the hep boys i'm goin huntin fer a whileI do wish each and every one of ye a Merry Christmas and a happy new year, maybe i already did that Oh and the depty said he might let raphie out so Yohan come on down and we will shoot us a bear and cook him

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

This is what I do know for fact. WD40 is designed as a water displacement agent used on the Atlas Missile at Vandenberg AFB due to being within yards of the Pacific Surf. WD40 works fantastic for short term corrosion control for rifles and inside the bore that doesn’t dramatically change the first shot unlike Break Free which will shoot abet high and settle back into accuracy after 3 rounds or so. If you’re going to shoot a lot of rounds before cleaning, Break Free works great on reducing the copper fouling especially if your shooting competition like I have were 200 to 300 is the norm. WD40 will break down due to age as any other oil/lubricant, however when it’s time to use your firearm I couldn’t think of a better corrosion preventer than WD40 along with a fine gun oil for lubrication. When I was in Alaska and hunting in 20 to 60 below zero, automatic transmission fluid works best as a lubricant and don’t plane to do a lot of shooting.Before any firearm use after prolong storage or heavy use, I use carburetor cleaner followed by a bath of Coleman Fuel to remove all the solvent that also re pregnant the metal then coated with WD40 and or fine gun oil. Coleman Fuel is a oil also by the way also know as kerosene.Bottom line is, if WD40 works for you use it! Break Free works fantastic as a lubricant on bolts etc. especially autos!

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from Wes & Yohan's elementary teacher wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

You uns qwit yer argyin! WD40 werks fine an dnandy fer guns and efen qures my artheritis. Never beeleif whut paw usses it fer. Oils that there back door yss he dose ifn yoooou uns nows whut I meen. He got a ornnry mule too YUK YUK YUK...

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wes ,.. on the wd40 ,.. only place I have used that stuff is on cranky trailer hitches and squeeky garage door rails.Im an amature carpenter (it just comes naturally) so I probabaly have more tools that the avrgae bear,who dosent make his living with themDid use wd40 on Saws-all once that had sticky blade recepticle.But I dont think I would use it on a gun. Truth is not sure why maybe t eidea that the dtuff under certain cercumstances will build up a viscous gunk.Aint been around this long not to smell a horse trader under that home spun dman smart wonderfull fellers stuff,. Then again could be wrong ,.. just that i doubt it YUK YUKDo not belive im gonna by that mule either ,.. YUK YUK

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WesThe fumes from that wd40 been eating a few of your brain-cells buddy, get out for some fresh air!LoganYour single shot 20 gauge is worth about its model number $15 bucks or so.YohanNo worries, keep posting, long and proud!SA

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave-Don't know if we have asked you this question before, but do you have a favorite rifle/caliber that you believe to be your true friend for all around big game hunting?Limiting big game to not include the dangerous bears or the really big grass eaters.

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from Chucky Flaave wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Gun Owners of America and its supporters took a knife in the backyesterday, as Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) out-smarted hiscongressional opposition into agreeing on a so-called"compromise" onHR 2640 -- a bill which now goes to the President's desk.The bill -- known as the Veterans Disarmament Act to its opponents --is being praised by the National Rifle Association and the BradyCampaign.The Brady Bunch crowed "Victory! U.S. Congress Strengthens BradyBackground Check System." The NRA stated that last minute changes tothe McCarthy bill made a "good bill even better [and that] the endproduct is a win for American gun owners."But Gun Owners of America has issued public statements decrying thislegislation.The core of the bill's problems is section 101(c)(1)(C), which makesyou a "prohibited person" on the basis of a "medicalfinding ofdisability," so long as a veteran had an "opportunity"for some sortof "hearing" before some "lawful authority" (otherthan a court).Presumably, this "lawful authority" could even be the psychiatristhimself.Note that unlike with an accused murderer, the hearing doesn't haveto occur. The "lawful authority" doesn't have to be unbiased. Theveteran is not necessarily entitled to an attorney -- much less anattorney financed by the government.So what do the proponents have to say about this?ARGUMENT: The Veterans Disarmament Act creates new avenues forprohibited persons to seek restoration of their gun rights.ANSWER: What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- hugenumbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be deniedthe right to own a firearm.And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans tospend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regainthe gun rights this very bill takes away from them.More to the point, what minimal gains were granted by the "righthand" are taken away by the "left." Section 105 providesa processfor some Americans diagnosed with so-called mental disabilities toget their rights restored in the state where they live. But then, insubsection (a)(2), the bill stipulates that such relief may occuronly if "the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerousto public safety and that the GRANTING OF THE RELIEF WOULD NOT BECONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST." (Emphasis added.)Um, doesn't this language sound similar to those state codes (likeCalifornia's) that have "may issue" concealed carry laws -- wherecitizens "technically" have the right to carry, but state law onlysays that sheriffs MAY ISSUE them a permit to carry? When given suchleeway, those sheriffs usually don't grant the permits!Prediction: liberal states -- the same states that took thesepeople's rights away -- will treat almost every person who has beenillegitimately denied as a danger to society and claim that grantingrelief would be "contrary to the public interest."Let's make one thing clear: the efforts begun during the ClintonPresidency to disarm battle-scarred veterans -- promoted by the BradyAnti-Gun Campaign -- is illegal and morally reprehensible.But section 101(c)(1)(C) of HR 2640 would rubber-stamp those illegalactions. Over 140,000 law-abiding veterans would be statutorilybarred from possessing firearms.True, they can hire a lawyer and beg the agency that took theirrights away to voluntarily give them back. But the agency doesn'thave to do anything but sit on its hands. And, after 365 days ofinaction, guess what happens? The newly disarmed veteran can spendthousands of additional dollars to sue. And, as the plaintiff, thewrongly disarmed veteran has the burden of proof.Language proposed by GOA would have automatically restored aveteran's gun rights if the agency sat on its hands for a year.Unfortunately, the GOA amendment was not included.The Veterans Disarmament Act passed the Senate and the Houseyesterday -- both times WITHOUT A RECORDED VOTE. That is, the billpassed by Unanimous Consent, and was then transmitted to the WhiteHouse.Long-time GOA activists will remember that a similar "compromise"deal helped the original Brady Law get passed. In 1993, there wereonly two or three senators on the floor of that chamber who used aUnanimous Consent agreement (with no recorded vote) to send the Bradybill to President Clinton -- at a time when most legislators hadalready left town for their Thanksgiving Break.Gun owners can go to http://www.gunowners.org/news/nws9402.htm toread about how this betrayal occurred 14 years ago.With your help, Gun Owners of America has done a yeoman's job offighting gun control over the years, considering the limitedresources that we have. Together, we were able to buck the BradyCampaign/NRA coalition in 1999 (after the Columbine massacre) andwere able to defeat the gun control that was proposed in the wake ofthat shooting.Yesterday, we were not so lucky. But we are not going to go away.GOA wants to repeal the gun-free zones that disarm law-abidingAmericans and repeal the other gun restrictions that are on thebooks. That is the answer to Virginia Tech. Unfortunately, theHouse and Senate chose the path of imposing more gun control.So our appeal to you is this -- please help us to grow this comingyear. Please help us to get more members and activists. If you add$10 to your membership renewal this year, we can reach new gun ownersin the mail and tell them about GOA.Please urge your friends to join GOA... and, at the very least, makesure they sign up for our free e-mail alerts so that we can mobilizemore gun owners than ever before!

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

dang the luck cause i got an old sangle barrel that is marked dollar grade and i hoped it might be worth more than that. if mr. love is right then i am goin to go ahead and cut the top of the stock off with my table saw so I can shoot squerrels with it. Ralphie got it for trapping i think he said. it was made by looks like thaca. i need to get the steel wool and wd40 aholt to it too and get shed of the rust so i can read it better. i'm sure proud you folks are able to help me out

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Logan, Crescent Arms is long gone.Crescent was a company that manufactured mostly utility-grade shotguns for the hardware store trade back in the late 19th on in to the early to mid 20th Century.As a matter of fact, my very first shotgun was a single-shot .410 from the Bridge Gun Company that was I believe actually made by Crescent.I think I read somewhere that Crescent guns were sold under literally hundreds of different brand names.As for worth, I'd guess not any more than whatever sentimental value you ascribe to it as an heirloom or shooter as the single-barrel guns have no collector value at all.Having said that however, I have seen a few of the small-gauge Crescent doubles go for surprising amounts if in good condition.Hope that helps...

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ishwaoadont you be telling my good friend Yohan what to do. I'll tell you tomorrow what the barrel people said about wd40 toi got a dang good mule unless you try to take him somewheres and only got a desel pickup to pull the trailer

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohan: Don't buy that mule.Wes: You are one funny dude, whether you intend to be or not I remain uncertain. The "gals" name was Ronnie but I doubt she is with us any more. Just stop using WD-40, take our word for it.Dave: I beg of you to please initiate a new subject as a Christmas present to all of us.

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from Logan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I have inherited a Crecent Arms No. 15 Empire Ejecter single shot 20 gauge and I was wondering how much it is worth and if Crecent Arms is still around?

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohanthanks for setting me straight on the ironing thing cause I thought that hank was pullin my leg. Like i said you felleers are smart and know more about guns than anybody I know. finally i can get some straight answers except for the wd40 thing. I bet Yohan or this Dave feller know but jus want to make me figger it out. Theres a place down the road at Charleston that make high priced barrels. I wil call them tomorow and find out and then pass it along to you. thanks again Yohan if you are ever in WV stop by and we go look for a bear.ralphie can get you a big un if i get that dang mule sold so he can get out of jail. does anybody remember who that gal was from michigan that wanted a mule did yall know that a savage that smells like desel will spook a muleMerry Christmas to all of you fellers and i hope and pray you all have a good year a coming to you

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey guys are you not sure that This barrel brushing and some of these other methods are as Dav. Petziel has said, A FAD. most rifle will shoot well enough for hunting.Bench rest might be another thing.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wes ,..you betcha ,.. have ironed a bunch of dings out of stocks ,..and other wood things like arrows,..I make and shoot 70lb spine wood arrows ,.. they get dings ,.. when you shoot emSteam takes dents out a lot of the time.number of ways to do it but wet cloth and hot iron works a lot of the time,..

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sarge,.Unfortunate thing with your buddyHope he's OKReally no telling where ,.. I went in up to my chest once in the Necedha area,.. and again close to the Grand River March,..When the mud is that old it really stinks,..My Chesapeak retriever was with me ,in Necedha .he actully tried to pull me out ,..got hold of my sleeve and ripped the "h" out of a nice goose down coat,..But,... better that,..than some cul walking around like nothing happened.while you sink in.No grouse that day ,.. but after change of cloths,...did whack a couple ducks and a goose,..Ulness you got some mutt like craig along ,.. its all good marine,.. its all good.Oh ,.. quick note ,.. one buddy was a cheff back then,..That night he breasted the goose cut breasts up cross grain and gently sauted the meat as if it were beef ,.. then Like that Balalie guy used hot foil wrapped brick on top of meat to finish on grill,.Tell ya what ,.. never wanted wild goose again any other way ,..yohan

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My cusin Hank has a 308 normal magnum that he cleans with some fruity stuff called hopps. He puts turpentine and paint thinner on stock. Fool even said that you can iron dents out of wood with a cloths iron. Do any of you fellers know if this is the rit thang to do? I still am wondering what is wrong with wd40. I used it on pappys old luger for years. Say I got to reading that pistol and its got a ancor and a kings crown on top of it and says 9 mm. Its old says 1906I think i will use wd40 and steel wool to clean it like one of you fellers said to do. It got rusty after ralphie droped it in the creek coon huntin

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My brother in law used to shoot a Fox double barrel when we rabbit hunted a few years ago and every season after he stored it all summer, i had to take it down and clean it. i just would not shoot until i did so. The gun was so tight and the grease so hard . I never would use any type grease myself .

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Chev, the only thing wrong with grease in wet or cold is that grease thickens when cold and collects dust and stuff when warm, I would "maybe" use some WD-40 when the gun is wet, but then wipe off and use a good grade gun oil. Breakfree is not expensive compared to the price paid for a nice rifle .You wouldn't go to the dollar store for oil for your new truck...Dave in St Pt., I didn't shoot the 762 in my Rem 700 but love the brass.Yohan, I don't know the exact place the guys went hunting but one guy stepped in the mud up to his waist, sprained his leg and layed around camp the next day..

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Just a few things . . . first, it's a very bad idea to chamber older military rifles for .308 Winchester. Mauser actions from the WWII era were designed for pressures around 46,000 psi. Some .308 Winchester loads can reach 55,000 - 60,000 psi. Ditto for the Lee Enfields. And, yes, some of those Mausers have let go--it's a real tribute to their design that many more haven't blown up, but you're pushing those actions past their design limits when you fire .308 Winchesters through them. As far as barrel break-in goes, I think it's probably not a bad idea to prevent fouling from building up right off the bat, but I never did barrel break-in per se. I bought a Model 700 Mountain Rifle about 20 years ago and took it out to the range in Heidelberg, Germany, and fired about two boxes of ammo through it to sight it in. It shot half-inch, three-shot groups at 100 yards then and does so now--and it's a .30/06. I am certainly glad that I didn't shoot moly-coated bullets; I am a somewhat "late adopter" (used to be early adopter, but learned my lesson). I don't like the idea of having to scrub barrels to get the stuff out, and I've heard that barrels can rust under that coating--just as they can under lead fouling. Lastly, if I may pontificate just a little more, you don't want to use WD-40 as a lubricant. It leaves a gummy residue behind when it dries. It also lifts gold plating off firearms--as many a sorrowful owner of a commemorative firearm has learned. It is great for driving moisture out of metal parts, but a good gun oil or grease should be used to lubricate and preserve metal surfaces from rust. I think RIG grease is unbeatable for rust prevention. Dave P. said he never saw any grease that would survive days of Alaskan downpours, but I think RIG would come the closest to doing so.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

This is perfect Craig ,..The Yohan aint form the big Wi,..I actually DO however own propety ,..in a number of venues ,, and the last mutt I would consider on either my own or a connection is a YOUSo big shot ,. blah blah ,..take care with your mouthAS what your home spun genius proves is that you aint much ,.. in a fight ,.. in a business or in the field.Sucessful soldiers (ones that are alive now) and good hunters ,..The ones who been there done that ,who have taken enough to want to give back are obviously waaay beyond your narrow numb nut little scope ,..of self,..When you pull your head out of the place where sun never shines ,..,. Nahh I was gonna be generous ,.. you just aint worth itBut Hey,.Merry Christmass anyway .

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from craig curtis wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

is everybody from Wisconsin long winded ? and ive got an idea could you girls learn how to use email . so i can read the responses to daves blog that actually pertain to the subject , without scrolling for days through fish biting grouse flushing blabla bla, unless we can come up their and hunt your property well then its a whole new ball game dontya know . to all you hard nosed dave lovers merry Christmas and don't worry the barrel takes care of itself with regular maintenance!!!!!!

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sorry fellers i dozed off for a bit but have since catched up on my reading here. I have got to say that you boys shore kno more about guns and such then anybunch i have been around and i still wish somebody wuld tell me what is wrong usin wd40 in my savage the desel one and one my other one that says 300 savage but it is my old uncles winchester says model70 on the barel. Shore is confusing i once saw a Reminton that said it was a 600 but that said 308 wincheseer on the barrel can any of you explain thisand don't forget to let me in on the wd40 since i can get it at about 2 dollar at walmart That brekfree is higher a cats back and stanks a s bad as my desel savage

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from Gil Martin wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Most of my rifles came off the used gun rack so someone else broke them in some way or another. I cannot tell the difference. I have bought new rifles and cleaned them, shot them and cleaned then again without a problem. If someone wants to micro-manage the break-in process of their rifle that is their right. All the best...Gil

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Here's one for you guysWhen I get stressed which is usaully only by relatives polititions and or certified idiots of one ilk or another.I try to excersice ,.. walking jogging,... stationary bike hitting heavy bag mnay many times,.. etc.The other day I wason the fast traine to a migraine due to dilitory genious of a relative. Dont even wanna guess what my blood pressure was.So,..because I am the boss of my little operation ,.. I gave myself the afternoon off ,. it was that or commit "cairy carrie",.Was headed for a watering hole but decided better not ,..too early.So pulled into local big box sport store,.. The clerk was a certified Pr!@k who new little to nothing about guns ,.. but as it turned out these folks were having a sale on 870 Rems,..Long story short I walked out with two,. 12 & a 20 .Now,.. due (I think) to he fact that I came from VERY humble begiinings,. VERY HUMBLE ,..I have a couple side by side doubles that cost as much as my fathers house way back in the 50 - 60s.That said here's the thing ,.. those two 870's (both) were less than $500. with rebate.(Im just as cheap as the next guy)So I figured what the "H"I'll use em for something ,.. maybe presents for nephews etc,..But then I thought why not shoot em a few time see whats what ,.And gentlemen I will be damned ,..The 20 is my new favorite toy,.. points like my finger cycles like a dream and the pattern is as good ( truthfully better) than the two doubles with a pedagree,..Same thing with the 12 except,..it has a trigger thats just too heavy,.. but that can be handled.Suffice to say I am bowled over by these two smoke poles.They aint purdy ( no pun intended) but they sure as hell shoot.Have the idea mayb a couple doubles gonna get mentioned to a couple of my uppity aquaintences ,. see how much they like em.Learn somethin every day. !!

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from Quiet Loner wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

In about 1982, I tried that. Bought a Ruger 77 in .243 & a scope at a store closing. Hurried to the range with 120 rounds & cleaning stuff. Unfortunately, only .243 brush the man had was in stainless. I KNOW, I KNOW but I had beeen taught to use a stainless brush on pistol bores at an FBI Academy. Gets lead out great but was used for far fewer strokes than in the "break in" bit.Hurried to finish by dark. Wasn't trying for accuracy but began to think groups were getting bigger. After 100 rounds, bore looked like it had been sandblasted. Wouldn't hold a group for more than 5 shots. It probably took around 100 passes with JB impregnated patches on an old BRASS brush to smooth out my break in efforts.

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

i USED wd40 on both my guns for years and now i wonder if i done the right thang after reading this here blogg. did it hurt something i don't see? i do know that deisel fuel will make the black stock on savage 308 turn sort of gray. i figger if it turns cold in the woods i can always set far to it cause the plastic and the desel will burn good. i shore wish somebody would take ralphies mule off my hands caus i need the money to bale him out of jail fer fightin at the roadhouse. jis what is wrong with wd40 anybody ever grease them with bag balm?

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from David Jordan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I used to shoot hunter rifle silhouette. I bought, off the rack a 700rem. in .260. Shot a few shots, then ran a bore swab with polishing compound through bore about 500 pases. All I can tell you is I can shoot 4.5" groups at 500 meters all day.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ok Dave...I'm convinced, for now, so my Rem-700,.35 Whelen, is not going to get the break in treatment when I do some shooting with it. Our range at the local state rec area is under renovation, and I don't feel like shooting indoors, so it will have to wait until the spring.Da*n I hate waiting, and hate city living!

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

sorry bout my typing boys gues I done drunk too much old grandad for the day so very sorry if i am a drinker cause huntin season is bout over anybody talk fishin ever used dynimit

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from wES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

com on fellers do any of you remember the brand of off brand scope that michigan gal wanted? i will try and get myself one to trade with the mule but dang it i jis cant figger out what it was that she wanted. i got a savage i need to get shed of to cause ralphie poured deisel all over it trying to get it clean after that last rain so it sort of stanks

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from Joe Anderson wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Iagree with you dave ; Ive owened several savages that shot great the fist and the entire time I owened the gun no break in only great accuracy

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Being a blackpowder, muzzle loading freak I have been told by the folks knowing more about these rifles and handguns than I [NSSA boys and girls] it takes about 200-shots to break in black powder barrels. I saw one black powder silhouette shooters wipe his Sharps and High Walls between every shot. I thought it extreme although black powder is sticky after the 6th shot.In modern rifles the *break in shots* seem more to see the bedding settle.BTW I have been to rifle matches. IMO it’s like watching grass grow. If those guys send a shot down ranges every 15-minutes I’d be surprised.

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from Wulffy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Regarding WD-40: A little bit of it on some 000 or 0000 steel wool is the best rust remover I have used. I buy many used guns, and this always works to remove surface rust and doesn't harm the finish. Give it a try. But otherwise I agree, WD-40 is not meant for guns. And neither is gear lube or the purple or black grease that comes in the cardboard tube for use on the underside of your truck. I have seen that stuff (and smelled it) on the inside of too many semi-auto pistols.

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from wes in WV wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

whatever happened to that hot chick that hunts off an mule in michigan and wanted some kind of off brand rifle scope seems like her name was beau garret and is she still writing us? i have got a mule that she mite like and I'll throw in a good used scope to boot if you are still reading get in titch with me reel soon hon

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Clay,You are right on. Break Free should not be used in a rifle bore, except maybe long term storage. I don't think I would use WD-40 for anything on a rifle. I might use WD-40 on a waterfowl shotgun that gets really wet to displace moisture, but I do like Break Free for my waterfowl M870 because it doesn't evaporate entirely like WD-40.Watch the Break Free around your ammunition, it will penetrate it. Never use any of those lubricants on a revolver chamber if you want it to go bang. Just my 2 cents.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sarge, that M4 or M16A2 flattop in nice. I just wish they would rechamber with a 25-223 instead. By the way, I had to put my 2 cents in at http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003909.htmlI know my grammar and spelling sucks! but I believe I got my point across.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hi SargeSwampy grouse country ,.. Hmm well,.. lets see.Most of the middle of Wisconsinis an ancient lake bed,. so there is one "H" of a lot of area that could be called swampy,.. and there is also what known as "The barrens" which in some places resembles tundra.The grouse places I used to go to shoot a lot of grouse and deer is west of Baraboo in what are called the Baraboo Bluffs.Mostly private land though.Oak and maple interspersed with popler and birtch ,. beautiful in the fall.But I have also whacked a lot of grouse in Jackson and Juno Co which has the Meadow Valley Wild Life area and the Necedha refugeThey are back to back and cover a lot of territory.Together maybe 150,000. acresOne square mile is 640 acres so these public areas alone are 234 sq miles +/-There is plenty of roomTwo major forests in the North are Chequamegon,. and Nicolete.They have Grouse, deer bear and maybe a suquatch or two.Have nevr seen one but do know peope who say they have,..and they dont drink any more than i do YUK YUK ,.. whioch trutfully isnt very much. Who knows?I also had good luck on grouse in the Taylor co section of the ChquamegonGot my Norwegian behind lost once up closer to Michigan too.Due to compass poles getting reveresed (yup you heard right reversed) there are ore deposits up there that raise hell with a compass.So if you and yours intend getting back away from civilzation ,. take something with GPS so you dont spend the night under a tree waiting out bad snow storm like I did.Dont mind telling peple about these places cause they are SO damn big ,.. you couldn't hunt it all in a life time,.. or two.Ok gotta goHappy Holiays.

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from Yode wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave, I had a gunsmith tell me he wouln't do it with a rifle, but would shoot then clean after a single shot with a new muzzle loader. So does it matter the gun?I say gunsmith, but it was the gunsmith at a Gander MTN not a world renowned gunsmith the likes of which you talk.My dad was told by a guide in Texas over cleaning a gun with copper/lead removing solvents can hurt the accuracy.So my second quesntion is how often to clean a rifle? a Muzzle loader?

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

"I must of been a good boy this year?"Or you "got away with it". :)On the Ishy .308, is anyone SURE that the chambers will hold up to pressure of the .308 Win (62,000) as well as the 7.62 NATO (50,000)?Thanks

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ps-I think "Santa" wife is getting me a scope for my Whelen...I must of been a good boy this year?

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Has anyone here seen the jungle carbine chambered in the .308Win?I have seen an enfield model sporterized this way at a local gun shop for around $300. The gun is in decent condition, and their gunsmith has certified the gun as properly chambered and safe to shoot.Anyone have any experience with this type of weapon?

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Clay, Sarg,Here is an article on the Ishapore 308 / 762 that says you should not shoot 308 due to pressure.http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.aspI am NOT trying to argue with you I just want a answer as I would REALLY like to by an Ishapore if I can shoot normal .308 Win in it.THANKS!

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from SFC, Retired wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Always fire a fouling shot before you go hunting. Tried molly coated bullets-did not like them. This year I started using a new product called ultra bore coat on my rifles. So far the results are very good. UBC won't cure buck fever or a flinch but it does reduce copper, lead and powder fouling. Once the bore is coated you can clean with nothing but a solvent patch and a couple dry patches (no borebrush at all). Dave, have you seen anything about this stuff. I heard it was tested on machine guns during development.I got mine from a friend and so far I love the stuff.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Right again Clay.. If you keep all the brass of the same make together, it's a plus for accuracy because of case capacity due to the differant thickness .wd-40 is good to clean with but I will not use it as a lube or preservative(I think I spelled that wrong) I do like BreakFree. Did you get to go to Military .com and read about the M-4 carbines?..

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Before the day I plan to hunt, I try to go out and shoot 3 to 5 rounds then using a patch lightly coated with WD40 swab the barrel. If you want to really blow your first 2 shots, clean you rifle and run a patch with break free thru it. Now break free works great on keeping the fouling down. You just have to fire 5 rounds for accuracy. I’ve been told by a reliable source not to shoot molly coated bullets. It’s the best way to screw-up a barrel unless you want to shoot molly for the life of the barrel.By the way, WD40 is not a lubricant!

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

To be perfectly honest, I never hunt with a clean barrel. My bro-in-law who is a gun freak which is one step beyond a gun nut told me a long time ago never to hunt with a clean barrel. Supposedly the residual gunpowder grabs the bullet and helps the rifling... I know for a fact that my Knight muzzle loader's first shot out of a clean barrel is unpredictable, but I can't really testify to much more than that. I always keep the Knight clean and on the morning I hunt pour some black powder down the barrel without a projectile and pop a cap at home. No pressure and no loud boom but it does shoot an awesome shower of sparks and makes that first shot count... you score on the first try more often with dirty girls and guns.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave in St PeteThe only difference between the brass of the 7.62 NATO compared to 308 Win is the thickness of the case. The 7.62 is a heaver case with all the dimensions the same, just another name like 13mm Auto or .45 CAL.SargI know for a fact you’ll love those 130 grain Hornady’s!!!!!!!!!!!After 11 years of NRA High Power competition, I’ve heard it all! From fire lapping to cleaning every so often. Hell, as long as I can hear the gas piston fall back and forth in my M1A during a match, I’m good to go and still kick tail 85% pluss of the 300 Mag’s at 1000 yards and that’s after 200 rounds without cleaning!

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from JW wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey Dave, thanks for the 411.I was at a rifle rang earlier this year & was wondering why this guy next to me had an entire cleaning kit with rods, solvent & patches cleaning the barrel after every shot.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wulffy ,Clay put me onto the 130 gr loads for my .308. I'm getting ready to try these myself..Thank you Clay It makes sense to load this load, it's in the "" Hornady Reload Manual""

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave in St.Pt, The .308 win should be the same round as the 7.62 NATO.. I've used many 7.62 cases in my .308 win. as a matter of fact, I love the Lake City match cartridges..

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from Wulffy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohan and Jim,Thanks guys for the ideas on my mauser. I am not too worried about the bolt lugs, I lapped them prior to setting the new barrel, and they have great contact. I was wondering about the scope, and will be trying a different one soon. I may also try a different trigger (borrowed a Bold trigger from my bro-in-law). I am also wondering if a lighter slug would help, as it got better from 180 grain to 150 grain. I haven't looked for lighter .308's, but may have to reload some lighter and check the results. Thanks again.

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Cadillac_Jack,I have read that you can not (or at least should not) shoot .308 Win out of the Ishapore. That .762 NATO was the only safe round due to chamber pressure.Is this correct?Thanks.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

RalphI have heard that some guides in AK used .35 Whelen's as a client back up gun. I have read that, too. I believe from Wayne van Swoll articles or book.While I cannot testify to the facts above, I feel comfortable withthe .35 in bear country. I don't like the .338 Win mag due to recoil at the range. That might be better, but marginally so at close range.

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from Cadillac_Jack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I bought one of the Ishapore Indian .308 Win. Enfields a few years back. My Gunsmith said the barrel was shot out. I found the section he said was bad (about 3 inches down from the muzzle) and milled it off. I polished the bore with lapping paper. I started at 600grit and worked through 1200grit. It took about 100 strokes of the entire bore with each grit. When I finished, it would keep shots under a 1 inch circle at 100 yds.I wonder if lapping paper would help with a rough bore on a new rifle? Or would it ease the break-in process?

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from lynn wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I hate to change the subject but need a recomendation from you folk. I need a .223 AR style target rifle. Needs to shoot 1"MOA, semi auto and accept a quality scope. It does not need to be too heavy (so wife can use) as it is going to be used for coyotes and stray dogs getting at my cattle. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. I really don't want to spend $3k either, value is important.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Thanks for the info WAMtnHunter...I have heard the 250grain Rem factory loads were accurate, and in my state of Michigan they will shoot flat enough I suppose?I was tempted to try some of the Nosler custom fodder, but I have always had success with my handloads, so I'll stick to working up a load.The Whelen may not be the panacia of the big game hunter, but I bet it could hold it's own against Moose and Grizzly bear, too!

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from Troy S. wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Well, what do you know?Petzal and I actually agree on something for a change!;-)

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from Ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Scott:You certainly are correct in comparing "normal shooters" to the benchrest guys. The latter is in another league altogather. This was first brought to my attention some years ago when one of these fellows showed me a used target. I remarked that the one ragged hole was rather fantastic shooting for a 5 shot 100 yard group. He blankly looked at me and replied "Its 10 shots at 200 yards." As my mouth feel open he showed me his custom somehow modified one of a kind 6 mm PPC based superduper Ford F-350 rear axle sized barrel one hole puncher. My .338 still works better on elk. As they say "whatever trips your trigger".

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

DaveSince in my experience the average hunter/shooter can do more harm than good with ye olde cleaning rod. There is a bit of hokum going on here. Hokum is the substance likeliest to cause first born sons to yaw like a rich man's sailboat in a Nor'easter!If you have a rifle which doesn't group very well out of the box it is better to check bedding, muzzle crown, action lock-up and the trigger before trying witchcraft. Next might be to shoot it a bit, without undue cleaning, to get used to it; factory rifles are 'one-size-fits-most' and so that 'practice' word someone used above comes into play.If all above fails to make the thing behave then witchcraft (or the local pawnbroker) might be the next step!Happy Solstice to All!SA

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ChadAdd " Take non-shooter to next gun show." to your list.

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Chad,My NIB breakin in just about the same.Take it out of the box, clean it, take it to the range and shoot.I have had one NIB that I didn't like (Puma Lever) sent it back, got another that shoots fine.I clean all of my guns after shooting no matter if it was one round or 100 rounds and if they have been in the safe for more than a month I swab the barrel and re-oil 'just because'.Never had a problem and even my Puma is now sub MOA at 100.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ralph the RiflemanMy .35 Whelen shoots the 200 gr Remington's good enough. The 250 gr Remington SP's shoot very well, but are a tad slow for me. I once used them for hunting thick timber, particulary in bear country. The Federal 225gr Trophy Bonded's shoot extremely well in my rifle, typically under an inch. They also shot clean through an elk at 246 yards. Also shot through a mule deer end-to-end. I have never recovered one from a deer or elk. I once bought some of Nosler's Custom Ammo with 225 gr Partitions. They did not achieve the advertised velocity and didn't group quite as well. Nosler also has an Accubond in 225gr. Those can be store bought loaded through MidwayUSA. I have not tried them. Zero'd at 2.5" high at 100 yards, the TBBC's shoot just fine for elk sized beasts out to 350 yards. The .35 Whelen is not the end all be all of elk rifles, but the mojo sure has worked for me.That 8mm Rem Mag is an elk stopper, too.

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from Carney wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

RALPH THE RIFLEMANMy Marlin 1895 like the 300 grain best (so far). Of factory ammo it only likes the PMC 320 grain +P+.Go to my page at LiveHunt.com/Carney and you can see my targets!

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from Scott wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ISHAWOOA,True enough. You know, when you stop and think about it, the logic behind polishing a barrel stands to reason. But, considering most people accept groups that would be considered normal to all but a bench rest shooter, from mass produced barrels... the time taken to polish a factory made barrel, I feel, is wasted. Some would argue otherwise, I suppose. Time is a valuable commodity and if one spends money on a precision barrel, it supersedes, IMHO, the time spent polishing a standard one.

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Here's my surefire barrel break-in procedure:Take gun from rack.Cycle bolt a few times.Remove bolt.Eyeball bore.Inform pawn shop owner the bore looks "a little rough."Dicker.Dicker some more.Take gun home.Clean it.Take it to range.Hope I didn't get screwed.Which is a convoluted way of saying it's a moot point for me as most of my guns are purchased used anyway...

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

To WAMtnhunter-I'll keep you updated on my .35 Whelen.I purchased a few boxes of the 200 grain Rem factory load for practice and brass collecting. I plan on handloading a .225 grain Nosler, or Hornady,speer?, bullet for hunting.My research about the Whelen seems to indicate the .225 grainer is the best load for all around hunting retaining MV & ME down range.Speaking of the Rem Classic rifles, my son's friend's father has a Classic in 8MM-Rem mag, according to him that has never been fired. Now, I have asked if he is interested in selling it, and the answer is NO for now....I can't understand why one would buy a rifle and not shoot it? I mean, if it were a very rare, or unshootable, I could justify it of course.

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from Jim wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wulffy:Before you give up on your Mauser, try swapping off that nice scope for another hunk o' glass and see wha' hoppen'. Sometimes even good scopes go south, and the rifle gets all the blame...

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Scott:Last I knew David Tubb actually sells a bullet based barrel break-in kit that is not that much different from what you suggested. I have never felt the need to try it but who knows maybe it works for some folks.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey guys , did some research on how long a standard roll of toilet paper lasts, depends on how much paper work was done..

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

well said Scott,Yohan, we went out early one year after Some Muskies, A twelve year old with us, Two people went one way from the ramp, Two went the other.. About 15 or20 minutes into the outing We saw the other boat comming to meet us.. The 12 year old had indeed caught a 50" musky with very lite gear, not suitable for Muskies, especially 50"ers. But, the Musky had just spauned and was very weak. Given it about another 30 minutes, he would surly not have landed that fish.Back on the Grouse, Several people I worked with went to Wi. grouse hunting. They said the grouse were plentiful but. where they were at was very swampy. They had to be very careful about getting lost. You may have an idea where they were. They really had a great hunt. Most people here that go away for Muskies, go to Canada, but I believe I would go to Wi. myself.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ralph the RiflemanI would be interested to find out how well your new M700 .35 Whelen shoots "new". My M700 Classic (1988) did not shoot very well until I put a few rounds through it and several thorough cleanings.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Mr. Dave is screwing with reality versus imagination. I say leave those people alone that want to think they’re breaking in a barrel.And, whatever you do, don’t even think about telling them that Webster removed “gullible” from the dictionary.

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from Scott wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Maybe if we used stainless steel bullets with a 600 grit finish and shot exactly 42 rounds before cleaning with a cloth patch made in England and solvent made in Wisconsin, all the while standing on one foot...the method might work as a polishing agent in the barrel. Or not. I suppose a wink's as good as a nudge, eh?

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Bubba, Glad to read your report, just bought a new Handy Rifle in .204 ruger.. Needto shot somein it...

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Oh well,Never been able to afford a real "custom" rifle. Every new firearm I've ever owned was "factory". Can't think of but one that I had accuracy problems with out of the box. That was a Handi-rifle in .22 Hornet.I cleaned, cursed mightily, fiddled with the scope(an older Weaver K4), diddled with reloads, neck sized, full length sized. It shot like the blogger above, a punt gun!Finally got the thing to shoot fairly well and just kept shooting it.Recently:Win small rifle primer9.75 grs Herco 240045 gr Sierra spire pointThis rifle must be cleaned after 20-30 rounds or accuracy suffers!Load 9.75 +/- and accuracy suffers! It's a superb round, but very finicky. And it ain't the barrel.Bubba

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ka,I left out, of course, after the wire brush bit, running cloth patches through the barrel til they come out clean - then oiling to sit out for a while.Later

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from David wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Glad to hear from the most on this blog and Doc Dave that this break in method seems to be BS.I also heard about this break in method after shooting many rounds through my guns.I have always wondered what if?I can now sleep better.Right out of the box to this day they shoot and hit where I aim it everytime.

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sand or no sand, that's way, way too many jams. Sounds like they were trying something new that didn't work.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

sorry about the typing, need to proofread. in hurry this morming.(need to learn how to type)

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Before one could truthful say that their barrel shot better after this many rounds or after this many freeze shootings, i would think that to be honest, each round would have to be exactly the same, shot under controlled conditions etc. Grant you I've seen barrel shoot different after alot of shootings. some time improving anly to deteriate a little latter. Reminds me of the testing on the new M-4 issued to the army. It was on this wise: 10 M-4s. (new). 60,000 rounds, 886 hang-ups. this was determined to be:6,000 rounds each with 6.8 Jams for each 1000 rounds. 98% of the rounds fired OO.K. 868 minor stopage, wiyh 19 requiring an armorer to clear. what they for got to mention were if the jams were in, say three or four of the weapons with the other seven or eight with no jams. .. by the way this info is at: Military.com. and wwereconducted in a very sand condition. IS this a very good test..was the results calculed .or bias. openions?

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I don't like this tagging out early crap.Seven deer in the yard this morning chewing clover - with impunity! Driving the dogs up and down the place.I can get extra doe tags for the first time in NC this year. But I don't have the heart anymore this season. Plus, I still have concerns if "he" were to step out.You know - him?What an idea for F what to do when on an extra doe tag hunt, and the biggest buck you've ever seen steps out.

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

KaAnimal,I use a ram-rod to run a wire brush through my barrel after soaking with some liquid gun-scrubber. It does a great job; once a year after the deer season; the 45 cal, the 30.06 and the .22 just to say I did. The 45 cal is a muzz. so I do it 3 or 4 times a season. You can usually find attachments in most inexpensive gun cleanig kits. It surley gets the rest of the ugh out, which in my opinion, is what helps the barrel shoot better.

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from Bill wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I got tired of the GBBF and just use GB on a swab for about 50 strokes. Seems to work OK for me.Thanks...Bill.

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from retired waycar rider wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Right-on Jack--100 rounds--(practice)--and the copper brush always works wonders for me

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Correction... I meant Rem-700 in .35 Whelen

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Carney-My Marlin 1895SS seems to favor heavy bullets better then the 300 grainers.I must admit I have not been shooting it as much as I would like, and maybe with some time at the reloading bench I can get find a load more pleasing to my pumpkin thrower?My next project is shooting my new rifle;M700-Whelen...and so the barrel break in question haunts me again!

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from Carney wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WOW! I love finding out that I didn't ruin my gun barrel after all!The fact that it's a 45-70, which lobs 300 grain jacketed hollow points, with nearly the worst possible ballistic coeffecient, at 2000fps into just barely over MOA groups(and I mean 1/16th of an inch barely over!), was never really enough to keep me from feeling guilty over screwing up that "break in" formula! WOW! Now I feel great!But then, maybe it would be sub-MOA if I'd only listened to the experts...

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WulfyCheck the locking lugs especially front ones,. sometimes they don't bear equally when closed ,.which can affect accuracy in a rather spectacular way.Use magic marker on inside of lugs work the bolt a few times.If marker on one side does not wear off or wears significantly less likely need a gunsmith to help that situation out.Its a lapping procedure.Had one like that years ago couldnt hit a cerial box a 50 yds.When the smith got done with it ,.it was a vertual tac driver.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

SargOccasionally I wake up thinking. Which is on occasion dangerousAs a Stock Broker I"cogitate" now an again upon what is best for clints and my own financial well beingTonight I decided ,..didnt like the direction I was thinking and so turned to this blog to clear my thoughtsRead you comment in another section about Grouse and what are refeirred to as Skies ( musky).As known Locally up in Madison WII dont think its regionally known that the smallest lake of the four in that city (lake Wingra) is swarming with Musky ,.. the two bigger lakes Monona nd Mendota also support a truck load of the skies.Its a pretty town too,.. not what you would consider cheap but certianly not a Chicago price structure,..I was fly roding for blue gills there a few years ago and the strangest thing happned.A musky guessing 40 + inches pretty much "sipped" a number 12 spidderI thought what the heck, took up slack ,.. hooked it just inside upper lip played that puppy ( on 4 lb leader) for nearly an hour,.. had it to within neting range ,.. but as I was blue gill fishing ,. no netSo,.. I reeled rod tip in close to fish ,.. was going to try knocking fly out with rod tip.No go,.. fish didnt like it and broke off ,..But this to say there is some very good Musky fishing right in the state capital of WI,..as well as the ledgeondary Manitowish water area.Grouse are down now in Southern WI ,.. have fanatic grouse hunting friends who go up there ,.. all te time,..They say that now you need to go way north to get into decent populations.I spent a littel time hunting deer near Eagle River WI this year ( gun seson) and I saw some grouse.Whicj usually neans if youeseem when your not looking for them ther is afew around.Grouse are amazing,.. have had em watch me as I walked by on logging trail,.. could have killed em with a stick and have seen em so spooky they flush at the click of a car door closing.Oh well grilled venison and ,.. bacon wraped grouse breast on a bed of wild rice cream corn cranbery sause along with some good sourdough bread ,.. is enough to get me in the woods most years.

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from KaAnimal wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

To ishawooa:What is Dr. Ralph's copper brush method? I did a couple of searches and didn't find anything...Just interested in an old P'dog shooters advice.

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from Wulffy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I have been on both sides of the break in fence. I have done it with some rifles, and not with others. On the other hand, most of the rifles I buy are used (already "broke-in", just in need of a good cleaning). However, I just finished building a mauser sporter, of course with a new barrel. The barrel is floated, the action is glassed, the bolt lugs lapped, the head space is correct, the trigger is crisp and consistant at 4.5 pounds, and the scope is a rather nice Nikon that is mounted tightly and in good alignment; I decided to break in the barrel. I am not as obsesive about my breaking in as I have heard others are, and did a 30 round quick break in method I have read about. I have since been out to sight in the rifle, only to find that it will not group better than 7 inches at 100 yards with 150 grain slugs. With 180 grain slugs, it won't even stay on paper. I have put 70 to 80 rounds through it so far, and can only hope it gets better after 100 rounds, but I cannot figure it will go from 7 inch groups to less than 3 inch groups (minute of deer or bear) just by putting a few more rounds through it.By the way, anybody want to buy a beautiful .308 mauser sporter? :)

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from Trae B. wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hmm.I read just a while ago that gun makers will run a wire brush down a barrel to rough up the grooves in the barrel so the bullet wil catch and spin a bit faster to make them more accurate.so I think its a good thing to keep them clean but rough is ok too.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I don't care if my kids get yaws. I just don't want them to pitch or roll.Merry Christmas to all. Have a happy and prosperous New Year.

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

On the subject of various accuracy tips and gun voodoo, Jeff Cooper used to write, "If you think something helps, then it probably does." 100 rounds down the barrel won't hurt it any, and might seat the action just a little bit more firmly into the stock bedding, if there is any give there. And confidence is half the battle.All my guns that shot well, shot well right out of the box, except for those that never shot well no matter what I did. But for me, 1" at 100 yards for three shots is shooting very well. Benchresters and other target shooters, who measure groups to the hundredth part of an inch at that range, don't look at .1" as a negligible gain; they look at it as enough to win a match. I'll bet Dave fusses with his target rifles as much as the next man.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave...you know this topic brings out all the gun experts;thus my 2 cents worth.I still am not sold on the barrel break in theory, but on a recent article from a competitor's magazine the author claimed that MOST CUSTOM rifle builders break in a barrel BEFORE it is delivered to the customer.Now, as I have stated before most of the military snipers I know use a barrel break in method, as well.Is this science? Of course not, but a barrel being new only once are we doing any injustice to the accuracy Gods by braking in a barrel? It may even give you a slight psychological edge in paying attention to trigger control,breathing, and hitting the target!

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from KalamaKowboy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My thoughts exactly jack.

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from jack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

It seems that shooting 100 rounds through a new barrel resembles something some folks call practice.[shuffles back to the cave]

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My dad and I shot Benchrest competition for a number of years before he passed away in '98. Everyone had their own method of cleaning and Barrel Break in rules for New barrels. We subscribed to the 1 shot clean for 5 shots, then 2 shots for the next 10 etc. We tried lots of different products and concoctions to try to get them clean faster. Since you would always clean between record matches, you would clean a gun as much as ten times a day. We found that during the day we would use Sweets (heavy amonia content) and at the end of the day JB Bore Paste worked the best. The JB is abrasive and will remove anything including Molly. It also acted as a rubbing compound and would smooth the tool marks in the bbl and a smoother bore fouled less. I still use it especially on new bbl. I don't use molly coated bullets anymore, instead I coat most of them with Danzak. With danzak you don't put Canuduram wax on them to keep the molly in place. I don't compete in Bench Rest anymore and I'm sure the BR boys have many new and interesting ways and theory's on how to make a rifle more accurate. Most of them will envolve the purchase of their new can't miss formula or gadget. Some will actually work. And trust me they are WAY ahead of the Manufactures on R&D.Merry Christmas and Good Shooting to all.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I hear you, Dave.Whether myth or legend, my Weatherby Mk V with a button rifled Krieger Criterion barrel seems to group better now that I have about 250 rounds through it, always with good cleanings. My son's 7mm Rem Mag maintains very good accuracy with only infrequent superficial cleaning. My .257 Roberts shoot well whether clean or dirty. So who knows?

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Well,.. if you ask me( realizing no one did)Here again is my two cents.My father was a gun smith of a very paracticle nature,..Having been one in the army (WWII) he had a lot of barrel experiance by the time he was a lot younger than 90% of any on this blog.Plus he worked for Olin or a number of years.Where they shoot guns to determine barrel life until they wear out.His take was that on occasion a barel will shoot better after a certain number of rounds through it. Yet on no consistent basis, nor should it be considered a given or rule..A lot of "accuacy" being accounted for by either barrel vibration,.. and or the tigger.Or the shooter getting "the feel" for the gun.Personally I have had only one rifle that shot better after about 40 rounds.It is an 1895 Marlin in the 45-70. New out of the box,. the targets for first 20-25 rounds looked like I shot it with a punt gun,..but along about round # 40 ( had cleaned in once atlike 28-29) it settled down,. and now shoots to a very respectable zero.Just my two cents.

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from Scrap5000 wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Awesome, Dave, thank you. This actually was something I was worried about...not in a panic or anything, but something that made me cringe a little when I thought about it. Now I feel a lot better for not having done this, ever. Was wondering why my rifles all still shot so well anyway. And now I can rest knowing that a shoe will not drop unexpectedly.You are a definite nerve calmer, Dave. Thanks.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I've had good barrels that shot bad and bad barrels that shot good. Generally a barrel from one of the big name makers will work OK to exceptional regardless of manufacturing method or system of break-in. I have used Dr. Ralph's copper brush method upon advise of an old prairie dog shooter who went to the big dawg town in the sky back in '99 and have found it to work amazing well. Must be something to it. We always attempt to make a science out of riflery but somehow the art always slips back into the picture.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I think any barrel shoots better after a hundred rounds have been fired through it. There's definitely a break in period that smooths the bore but whether cleaning after so many shots or whatever has anything to do with it I can't say. Maybe there is such a thing as the perfect barrel with no imperfections and from day one it starts to deteriorate, but I doubt it. I have noticed that a copper brush run through a gun for an hour or three will vastly improve the accuracy. I have done this with several rifles some of which were old and dirty and some of which were almost brand new with the same result.

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from LittleR in OR wrote 6 years 12 weeks ago

I think it has been said.It's hit or miss.Either you get a good barrel from the start or not.I have a Winchester 22 model 190 that has many thousands of rounds shot threw it.I shot birds flying with it.Killed enough game with I could fill anyone heres yard 4 feet deep easy.Retired it,bought a Rem.22 viper that I could shoot flies of a wall at 75 feet,any further an I had no idea where the bullets went.Gave it awayGot single shot 12 gauge Savage 30 inch barrel full choke.Killed more game than a full size truck could pull.Bought a Rem. 870 12 gauge 28 inch barrel.Went threw every choke they made.Settled with the turkey choke.Holds a coke can pattern for more than 150 yards.With 3 inch mags.Killing machine for sure.Never been wet,hear stories of how they are rust buckets etc... .If you have the feel an the eye.All you need is a good barrel gun.There are lemons in every thing made now days.

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from airforcewx wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

I don't know what everyones problem with molly is. I have had excellent performance out of it and never had any problems. Only chance I see of a barrel getting nasty is if you never clean the thing. I use molly when prairie dog hunting shooting 500 rounds per day and never had fouling issues, simply clean and you are ready for the next day with no change in accuracy. At 500 yards I would think I would see a problem if there was one.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 13 weeks ago

Damn you guys are long winded,maybe the holiday spirits.But back to the cleaning thing.Clean your barrel first!I remember the first NIB gun I ever bought. At Kelly's gun shop (saddly gone) in St. Charles,Mo. I looked down the shiney barrel and thought I was ready to go. Luckily I had to go home first and something told me to clean it first. Good thing. After the first swab I don't know if the patch had cosmoline or what on it but I kept cleaning and didn't get to shoot till next day. That barrel may have stopped a bullet or caused undo pressure. Maybe it was in storage for WW3.

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from O Garcia wrote 6 years 15 weeks ago

Hi Mr. Petzal,You forgot to mention that one of your magazine's (and other magazines') poster boys, Kenny Jarrett, was the biggest name responsible for this fad.I still remember one of Ross Seyfried's responses to a reader who asked about breaking in a barrel using the Kenny Jarrett formula. The reader also managed to sneak in another faddish term, "beanfield rifle". So Ross began with "I don't hunt beanfields, usually I go after deer or elk..." and then he went on to say that he owns, has shot, and has witnessed shot, many exquisitely accurate rifles, some of them a century old, that obviously were not "broken in" using the Jarrett technique.Of course, Ross isn't perfect (his departure from the Wolfe magazines, where IMO, he did some of his best work, and subsequent disappearance, became an internet topic a few years back), but he at least had the right perspective.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

25.4 millimeters to an inch makes your 9.6 a .37824... usually .375's are 9.5 but everyone has there own ideas about what is right as we can both attest. Funny thing about those .375's they named them after the groove diameter instead of the actual bore. Well the bank opened six minutes ago and I have a rather large following of children, grandchildren, step children, and a wife of over 20 years that all seem to need more money. Imagine that... time for me to play Santa.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Sarg,.last for today,..gonna go chase bunnys,..I stand corrected you got me by a few years,.. was 14in 64,.my time came 5 yrs later.Also yes different guns03 and 03a3,..you know your stuff.Phoned a friend / mentor last night ,.to say mery Christmass ,.. ( He is WWII vet)He asked how was the hunting this year,. talk turned to guns,.Asked if he still had a springfield I once tried to buy.He said yes ,. and since he is getting on now ,.. maybe sell it to me later this year. AND another 98 brno large ringHad forgoten completly about that one,. only saw it once( purdy thing ) ,..He "liberated" that one. Apparently was hunting rifle of German officer.AND,.. this maybe too good to be true not sure but a 9.6 x 72 or 74 ?Sure of diamiter but not case length. Think this is metric equivilant of 375 but dont have manual here now,.. any idea?For sure I dont need more guns,. actually at this stage of the game trying to unencumber to some extent ,.. to much "stuff" just slows me down,.But because of who he is and what he is would make sure thse guns have a protected place with me until it doisent matter to me anymore.Ok now the bunnys,.. are in trouble.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Ed J , If i had a good Mauser action that i really wanted to keep, I would rebarrel with a good barrel in a cal. I liked. If I didn't think I could i could reballel my self, any good gun smith would and set the head space for you , you could do the rest and have a nice rifle. The headspace is very important. Someone mentioned about the primers not being flattened due to excesive pressure, too much headspace can cause that also.. After the powder is ignited, the case swells to seal the pressure and the bullet starts down the barrel , the primer will protrude depending on headspace, the case will cool and be pushed back against the bolt, reseting the primer. all this takes place before the bullet has left the barrel. So have the barrel headspaced by a gunsmith

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Yohan, I don't know how old you are,but in 1964, Iwas in Cal. at Vandenburg AFB ,and then some of theNew Sptingfield 03a3 did sell from the DCM for around $80.00 Maybe a little less, Remember there were mod. 03 and mod 03A3.Ed J. I did not say not to rebarrel the91, The 91 was a good action, the 98K larg ring was a little stronger. There were a lot of diferent Models of those Mausers.. I saw a 95 still in 8MM the other day and almost bought it to tinker with when the weather gets bad,.I do like the 98 in the 7mm, one of my favorite Military rounds to sporterize. I think the 8 mm (a good round) is just a little big for whitetail here where I live.Not long a go I had a Argentina Mauser in 7mm and sporterized it then sold it when I turned down the bolt handle to clear the scope, in was nice. the bolt was made from what i thought to be Nickle steel. cleaned up real nice. Wish i haden't sold it now.. By the way the mausers are realy hard to drill for a scope.. there is a trick to it. Some one makes a scope mount for some that don,t need drilling,

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

SargeI must be a smidge older than you.My 8 X 57 ( thinking back ) was a jount effort on xmass present,..My Dad ( the ole gunsmith) said if I got $16 he would put inthe next $16,.Which if my calculator is not wrong means $32 ,.. dont think there was sales tax back then so thats what it cost.For NRA EXC conditionA springfield -06 if memory serves was $42,. M1 Garand somethig less than $100 and G-43 (8x57) was $7998 K large rings were from $29 to $36 ,. dependinh on where.I got mine at Montgomery Wards belive it ore not.Funny what you rememeber from when you were young.

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Well fellers i done spent the hole day at the horsepital in Charleston getting raphie out. We had to wate a long time fer the doctor and i dont know why cause they said he was the head psychiatric resident. I figgured that meant he was working on ralphie's head and lived in the building so why did it take him so long to get to us anyhow? He had MD after his name must have meant mighty doctor. he said ralphie was OK but has an aggressive demeanor. i said that demeaner ralphie got the more aggresive he was. The doc agreed and let him leave with me. I guess the doc was upset hisself cause he said his wife had just run off with some horse trader from michigan in a red desel dodge. They had been celebrating in a roadhouse when some local redneck nocked the feller flatter than pee in the road and the old gal called the law. Doc said he would have paid a $1000 to a seed it and ralphie told him he would set up an instant replay for that kind of cash. Doc told ralphie to lay off fightin and shootin ffer a while. I told doc that was our lives. Doc said he had a nice rifle so we down to this BMW (stands fer BIG MEDICAL WAGON i guess) and he pulled out the nicest purtiest and best built rifle i ever saw and said a Mr. Forbes made it fer him. Mr. Forbes must know more about rifles than any of us fellers just looking and not even firing that fine masterpeace of engenering. I had no idea anybody could make a rifle that good. I had to have it. He said it was a .222 . I said that i never heerd of such and he said it was a lot like the army catridge. I knowed that was a lie cause we shoot 3006 just like yohan and sarg said and by gosh they know if anybody does. I asked doc how he broke in the barrel and he told me and said that he never used any wd40 on it but once considered using JB. I told him not to trust that dang JB down at b & m Pawn and not to use it. He showed me a herd of targets that he said was 5 shots at a hunert yards but i knowed he was lieing again. Any fool could see there was only one hole but he must have been using ragged bullets cause the whole was bigger than a 22 and the edges were not smothe. Anyhow i told him i would trade him a shiny luger, a new plastic reminton, a real nice custom colored Savage, a Hawes 25 acp (stands for A CRAPPY PISTOL), the 742 and since he knew a feller who was looking for livestock i'd add on a reel nice mule. Doc smiled & swallered two or three pills from a little brown bottle and said he would think about it. Bet he had had a quick drawing accident in the past cause he walked on a walkng stick and shore acted like a smartas I bet i never hear from him but he does have one of the best rifles ever made in America and nobodie can deny that.

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

sargso you think it's not a good idea to rebarrel a 91 mauser to 22-250. About 20 years ago I did that.uuuhhh now what do I do with it?

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

yohan, your father speaks the truth, I've seen them but forgot about the springfield.. The Mausers had 4 . I can remember when for $80.00 you could have a new Springfield 03A3, 30.06 cfcourse, but were great shooters.. very good action to build on. I never liked the Enfields, the clamp around the grip was very ugly, but avery good shooter also.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Sargya,.. mine has 4 ,.. but as I said it was brand new when I got it ,..I trutfully don't think I have put more than 3500 rounds through it maybe less,.. and the barrel still looks pristineDidn't use it for some years but it is cleaned religiously.I can shoot (consistantly) 1 1/2 groups of five at 100 with it.Three will get under 1 moawhich is OK with me,..I don't shoot at stuff much over 200 yds anyway.Truthfully try to keep it way less.Maybe a new barrel would do better, but with accuaracy like that,I would try changing load before new barrel if I thought I needed more accuracy,. which I dont ,.I'm not a competition shooter.But if I draw down on something the size of deer standing at 250 ,.. that animals actuarial statictis change drasticly and immediatly.The other truth is, I hate to shoot past even 100 and I will go to grate lengths not to.IE shoting v/s hunting,.. Probabaly part of that is that for many years I bow hunted ,. just havent had the time last 3 or 4.So 1 1/2 at 100 seems to fill the bill,.for me.However if that changes with new primers ,. Ill let ya know.I never saw one,.. but my father said that durring WWII springfield manufactured a sniper rifle 30-06 with only two lands and gooves,.Aparently much care was taken with the barels ,.and it was known to do the nasty on the enimy out to 1000 yds with predictabe regularity.A long poke ,. back then.That I found pretty intersting.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Someone was talking the other day on this blog that their rifle burnt out about 3" from the muzzle, isn't this a little rare as the bore should burn-out close to the chamber or throat first if im right.. have anyone of you guys seen this before? as the throat burns out, the bullet has to jump (or travel without the spin) for a little space thus causing a higher pressure once the bullet engages the riffling. On some riffle while reloading, I've left the bullet a little long so the bullet can engage the rifling, thus giving a better length to the other reloads.. try this the next time you load for a older rifle.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Ripcord, this barrel swabbing to me is really working on the lands as well, thats means a worn out barrel tome. how do you work on the grooves but not the lands..hey yohan, ever look down the barrel (unloaded ) and count the lands in that 98 mauser.. some of the old military rifles only had 4 grooves. this was to save time at mass producing weapons.. always re barrel when possible..

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from RIPCORD wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

MERRY CHRISTMAS GANG!BELIEVE ME THAT I AM NOT A PRO IN THE BARREL BUSINESS. DO KNOW A LITTLE SOMETHING ABOUT METAL. THE BULLET SHOULD RIDE THE GROVES, IF CLEAN, JUST FINE WITHOUT HELP FROM BURRS. JUST LOOK AT ANY FIRED BULLET. TO GET MAX VELOCITY, LOGIC WOULD SAY THAT INSIDE THE BARREL NEEDS TO BE SMOOTH AS POSSIBLE. IF I AM GOING TO CLEAN A PIECE OF GOOD METAL, I USE THE FINEST STEEL WOOL OR EVEN A POLISHING COMPOUND. LOOK AT ANY GOOD METAL THAT HAS BEEN MACHINED WITH A MICROSCOPE AND YOU WILL SEE BURRS AND ROUGH PLACES. I'D SAY GET RID OF THEM AND KEEP YOUR BARREL CLEAN FOR MAXIMUN PERFORMANCE.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Wes Im stuck up here in the land of snow, ice, andScnda-hoovians ,.. nothin to doSso been tryin to rememeber when it was u and i got learnen from Ole Mrs tacket,..thinkin meby it was long about 2ond may third grade,. The ole gunsmith and his wife was havin a bit of a financial problem ,. and I get the dimm ecolection they use to take me to that grocery store up close to the Hyway ,.tell me to go in and get a candy bar ,.. and then be gone when I come out,.I think when I showed back up at the shack ,. third or fouth time they wus plumb tuckered out ,.So if memeory serves,.. thyhad me off workin fer folks sos they could get back on there feet a bit,..I doo rememebr a skinny ole school marm who thaougt my blond hair was what she called "juxtaposed" to the local skin hue and hare color ,.. and i rememebr it was a lot hotter where I livedd in that shed,.. than whar I come from,.So who knows meby that was mr tacket whos husband had that Elsie smith scatter gun,..,..

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Ya know thinkin back 30yars,..a neighbor said he needed some quick cash,..something about his girlfriends dog needed to get spayed,..said he had this great little Remmington auto 22 he would sell me at a bargan cause he needed the cash,.. dont recall what I paid ,.. but made him sighn a paper that said this gun was not used in a crime lately r at least since he owned it.Went to sight it in ,..and that gun would empty a magazine slicker than modle 12 winchester fulla wd40 ,opperated by one of te local speed freaks. and it would shoot at 25 yd almost all them bullets in nearly the same hole,..Only problem,.. the hole was 18 inches low and left at 7 oclock ,..never did get that one figuired out,.. any ideas ?Couldnt sell it in good conciance and never saw said vendor again. So finally took a hack saw to it and junked it.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Well,.. were in western Wi ( few days R&R) not to far from where they grow all them thar big antlered deer.The weather is given us a butt whuppin .. ..Last night, rain then sleet then snow ,.. now ocasional whiteout conditions.Wish I had my Mauser ,..didn't bring any real toys other than the two 870s I picked up.Think maybe even the Scandahoovians hunker dowen in this stuff ,.. for shore ,. the rabbits and the grouse aint gonna co-oprate ,. so looks like its a day sittin on my butt ,..Anybody got any good huntn stories? Or Mule storysCan smell coffee now and I think sausage,.. oh ya ,..I'll check in later.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Sarg ,. good mornming ,. it appears someone took a nip at Mr cooper,. YUK YUKWsnt me Coop,. although have to say ,.. wd4o manhatten might tend to wake up 5 out of the 7 voices ,.. which would be confusing.Yes Sir Sarge I realize 50gr 4064 is max according to the loading manuals. dont think I would try to push it more either,.. no need.Here the thing ,.I ve been aroud guns my entire life ,. and a few things that trickled down from the old gunsmith is that there is always exceptions to every rule.Thusly assuming exatly 50 gr,..or 49 or what ever,.. pick a numbet.If you were to use different cases and primer combinations ,.. some will be more efficiant with lower pressure,. and some less effciant with higher pressure. Cronograph agees as I have tried a number of different loading componengts over the years.Looking at the fired cases ,.. there are litteraly no signs of excess pressure. First sighn usully flattened primer ,and from there it goes.. but not even that .A few years a go we had a man lost ( not me) ,.. we were firing signal shots after dark,. with Wardens permision.The old Gunsmith was still alive then an with us hunting.He told me latr (after we got the guy out) ,.. that he noticed a few clinkers ( unburned powder) in the muzzle flash when I fired .If the enery is not released ,. there is in most cases less pressure. Which is why later in the year,. Im gonna back off the charge ,. try magnum primers and slowy move back up ,.. may not need 50 grains Ya know.I know,.. what the "H " if it aint broke dont fix it right.I agree ,. with that too.I shot a big doe with it (8 x 57) using present loads this year .. hit her just behind the shoulder at 75 steps.Probabaly some where close to 75 yards. Pretty sure that one had wings before her shoulder touched the ground,.. so no performance complaints as is.Gald I did not hit the shoulder ,. that would have been big mess.Simple explanation is that Im pretty analytical so by nature and I like to toy things out ,.seeking max performace.Be it rifle ballistic or portfolio performance,.to me all the same.That is the why of that,.and no ,.. it is NOT a 95,.. it is a large ring Mauser 98,.. my favorit action of all time,..Probbaly havent shot ALL of the modern day bolts ,.. but think without too much wuffing I can say have shot a bunch and the only one i want is Mauser 98But thanks very much for waiving the warning flag ,..saftey firstis what will keep us all in business,..I mean the business of recreational hunting.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Thank maybe sombodi done got into the cookin cherry or mebethe last of the WD40..

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

OOPS! I crossed fired!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

I do like the Governor of New Mexico. Of what little I do know, he is the only one on the Democratic ticket I would vote for on that side and not all Democrats are bad. Their just misguided!Lets elect Neal Boortz for President!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

WARNING! If you are intellectually challenged, do not read the following. Food for thought follows for the intellectuals that can read and understand the following to come to their own thought and conclusion to realize what today’s Judas Goat is really is and how it affects others.I set back and see how the left can use those including minorities and to lead their own people beholding to some ideology that will lead to economic suppression and/or eradication. The UN in itself is using countries and individuals as Judas Goats. Follow them; follow them because they say it’s ok because they know they say and they say they know it’s best for you! But what they do know is at the end of the day, they will be safe and sound, well cared of and you may have died following this Judas Goat!Think about it and how people of yesterday and today are being exploited for someone’s own personal gain.I see the Judas Goat as The Democratic party!Judas goatFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaA Judas goat is a trained goat used at a slaughterhouse and in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared. Judas goats are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.The phrase has also been used to describe a goat that is used to find feral goats that are targeted for eradication. The Judas goat is outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red and then released. The goat then finds the remaining herds of feral goats, allowing hunters to exterminate them.

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Them two brothers at B & M pawn, JB and JC did stick it to me. If the other brother JD had been ther he wouldn't a done it.I aint goin back to Bowel& Movement pawn any more The reason I gave that mule tradin feller only half a box about 200 .22 shells was that i shot up the other half in the plastic reminton. i tried to break in the barrel just like you fellers said how it ought to be done. i fared a round and clean the barl with my brush and stick and some solvet. The solvet will remain a secret but it has 2 letters and 2 numbers in it so you fellers will probably figger it out anyhows. Dang rfile stuttered and hung up so i decided to do them once at a time. Then i decided to try shorts but they didn't feed any better than the regular 22s not as good. i tried and don't do this at home to put in a magnum since the box says 22 but they wouldn't fit no matter how much wd40 i sprayed on them. i a good mind to get shed of the plastic reminton, the desel savage, and that mule right after the furst of the year. ralphie will know what to do bout this when he gets out of the hospital lockup room that the jailhous moved him to

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Boys i know what ye are going through and shore feel sory for ye. I never had a lab but know they are good dogs. i have had several pointers that broke my hart when they went on. I put up markers for three of them and carved their names in the stone. My huntin buddies tell me that pointers never get as close to ye as labs and looks like thats true I offer my sympathies to each and all that have lost good huntin friends this yer both 2 legged and 4, i shore do mean this to be sincer and not tryin to be funny at allRemember the Lord watches over us all including fools like me

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Yeah Ishawooa, that's what I miss the most too. Whenever I pulled into the driveway after work who was there with a smile to greet me? Not my kids, wife, or anyone else. Just my best friend wagging that tail so his whole body swayed, rubbing up against me and letting me know that I was his best friend too and always unconditionally loved... I need to quit before I cry.

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Dr. Ralph:Toby, my yellow lab of 13 years, passed away this year also. I let him out of the house and he didn't come back. I found him under the kid's trampoline beside his kennel. The vet had told me Toby had cancer and would not see another year through. The whole family cried and grieved for a week. We buried him under our favorite tree and one that he often enjoyed laying under in his old age. My wife also got a tombstone for him. He was a member of the family and will be missed forever. So many duck and pheasant hunts to recall but mostly just that big old lab smile and swinging his "killer" tail thumping my pickup as he walked past it.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

I lost my best friend this summer too. Black Lab that had been my bird and duck hunting partner for thirteen years I think, not exactly sure when he joined the family. Sadness doesn't even begin to describe how I felt when we dug the hole and put him in the ground. Even got him a tombstone that says Midnight... the best dog in the world.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Wes your "buddy" at the pawn shop is a better horse trader than you. Those plastic Rem's aka jam-a-matics are good for two things. Propping open doors and boat anchors, and that's only if you have a very small boat. I've got one that's never been able to empty the mag. They have three designs for the mag already, and the good folks at Remington sent me their newest version about a month ago saying they finally got it right but that old boy on the phone must have been a REMF once upon a time because the ordnance they sent me couldn't put three bullets in the chamber in a row to save it's life. Maybe if I soak it in WD-40 overnight....

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from WES wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

Fellers i done got ole Lusifer back. This feller in the red dodge said that fine mule thru a fit when he cranked up that rattling old desel and purt near tore up his trailor. fell went in to quiet Lusi and Lusi turned on him. Wanted his money back but i refused till he warped me in the ribs with his crutch. Scared him when i spit up blood so he let up before i had decided to hurt him. I wound up takin the mule back and given him half a box of thruderheads bullets to hep out on his gas. he said i would here from his lawyer but I an't scart cause raphie went to the kommuniti colege and got a dgree in criminal justis so he can handle it if he gets out in time. When ralphie went there i laffed cause i din't see why he had to go to school too learn to be a criminl, just no justis to it. Now thats funny too.Anyhow the feller with the dodge was happy when i showed him how he could go over it with wd40 on the hinges tailgate and sech and it would quiet it down. i put a few squirts in that motor to see if it would quiet it down too but it didnt hep much.He had a M1 that said 762 on the barel. i told him i had a reminton that was a 742 you know the one with that fars the 243 wincesters that is confusing me. When we looked at the shells shore enough his was a mite bigger bullets but same body as mine so now i know why mine is a 742 and his is a 762Afore they left i opened the glove box to put wd40 on it and saw a old nickel colt laying there. I says to my self, self these must be a pair of real shooters and his galfriend who was setting there slapped me right up side the head. She said that both her hooters were reel.Anyhow he wouldn't trade the colt for the plastic reminton 22 and take Lusi as boot. i got to go docter my head

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from sarg wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

yohan, 50 gr 4064 is a max losd for that bullet weight,150 gr. use with caution, and that should be2900FPS.. The mauser 98k large ring should be the strongest action around, the Jap.6.5 and 7.7 are strong action in the early models but got a little weak at the end of the war.. I used to load both, but the brassfor the 6.5 is almost imposible to find.. The 7.7 can easily be made from 30.06 brass with a .312 bullet. Now, are you sure you know the mauser 98 action from the 95? and if you do indeed use the mauser 98, besure it's the 98K large ring.

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from wes wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

FIRSt all you fellers lay off my friend yohan cause we used to go to school togather. mrs tacket remember him and me to. i took my mule to the Satday stock sell and got $350 for him from some fool that drove up in one of them red desel dodges so i didn't wait around fer him to load ole lucifer up into that purty little trailor hes got. anyhow i stopped by the nursing home and tried to buy the elsie smith from mrs tacket but she do give it to her grandson. I traded that ole dollar grade ithaca fer a brand spankin new plastic remington .22 and a hole box of thunderbolts bulletts, fool traded even down at B & M pawn i recomend them to anybody. Its been a plum good Christmas season so far. got to go now cause i done got togather enough cash to get ralphie out of the slammer so we can go huntin. Yohan com on down and let me know when you get to WV. i'll give you directions. Got to go fer now cause a feller in a red dodg jis pulled up in front of my doublewid. Must be bringing over a heffer or somethin cause hes got a bent up trailor hooked to it. i can see out my winder one of his arms is in a cast and he reching in the pickup and pullin out a crutch. i better go hep him with whatever he needs

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

ISHWOOASon of gun did you just open the memory banks,..I am now in upper midwest and we are waiting for storm to come through tonight ,.Fireplace is all primedand I'm haven,.. just wee drop of "Johnny" on the rocks,..Kllled most of the wolves that needed killing before the 1st this yearSo today is day of badly needed rest.Was gonna hunt but Im beat from,last week. If your in my business last week make you think about getting a Job and Burger King.Anyway,.. Ya,.. the Mauser is a beauty ,.. and now glad I didnt rebarrel to -06,..its a classic .Actually had a German guy offer me just plain too much for it once .It apparently reminded him of the hunting in Germany before Hitler. This was easily 20 years ago now .Im 57 and he was then well into his 70's so liley he's gone now.If I was gonna sell it,. it would have been to him just from the look in his eyes when he saw it,..his eyes actually got damp ,.. such is the power of good hunting memeories,..But I couldnt,.No,.. when I go that gun is goin with me,..like Da VIkings yaBut main reason for this post is your buddes short hair pup. my god,.. thought I would bust a gut,.. chewed up wireing on balistics lab and then decided to wreak havock on pressents,..Again a classic,.. reminds me of my chesapeak pup.If anyoe could bottle the smell of a hunting dog pup they would be a billiare in a few months.What I rememeber most is the big clunky feet ,.. the puppy smell and uqunchable curriosity ,.. and the the size of the "dumps" those littel creature are capable of producing ,. amazing !!Anyway to recount theCheapeak pup christmass story,Yes it was christmass ,. I was married only few years and we had just bought our first houseAt that time my spounce was still sane YUK YUK.It was tough sledding that year finacially ,. but Nov was pretty good so I got a pretty good check in beggining of Dec ,.. Think it was most of 15 K ,a lot back then .. which took the pressure off for Holidays.Anyway the Chessie pup was still a "dead graas" colored furry lump with four legs,.. giant feet mouth and head, all out of proportion ,. but cute as newborn fawn.I came home on a Fri with the dough ( check) ,. proving for the 20th time to my wife.I was actually not a dead beat,and that I might even be able to keep up with the scorched earth credit card deficit form of spending she had addopted YUK YUK ..We had few drinks odered Pizza and played with the puppyTHe tree was up and prsents had been gathering ,..there were 8 or 10,..it was a cozy setting made a lot better by the knowledge I could pay the bills.Intending to deposit the check the following Monday I set in on a dresser under a Bible. my mother had given me.The night wore on the fire got low and we all went to bed.Next moprning I was up and out the door bunny hunting ,..My mother inlaw was coming who I liked then ,. and she liked rabbit ,. so great excuse.The following Monday I went t o get the check and couldnt find it ,..anywhere,.. looked high and low ,. trying to rememeber if maybe I had gone and looked at it after having a few of beers on Sat,.. maybe missplaced it ,.. nothing just vansihed .Went to work came back that night looked all over,. nothing ,.. wifee asked me to get a fire going ,and in same breath did i deposiet check .. said no not yet ,..Went to the small stack of fire wood in the garage ,. picked up a few pieces and noticed a piece of light green paper way down between some pices. Took fire wood n ,. came back picked up light green papaer and there it was ,. my check with about 18000 pin holes from puppy teeth.Only think I can think of was my sent was on it ,. and anything i touched he wantd to lick ,. somehow the little $hi!nudged the Bibble off the check and carried it around,.. who knows when ,.and dropped it behind a door or maybe even in the presents ,.Wwhen I got up to get more wood ( he followed me every where ) maybe took it out there between trips hen door wa open.He had seen me go there frequenly for woodBut truthfully I just dont know how the hell that little dog did what he did .. but I found the chck and all was well,..Next day he got out of pen we had fixed up in the laudry room.Where upon in hs puppy mind every present under the tree needed opeoning ,.Then of course itg ets better Form what i was told by my wife he chased the cat up the tree which of course fell over breaking ornmants amd generally scaring the $hi! out of him ,..So ran off just far enough to to escape said falling christmass tree.Tured around and when was sure the tree want chasing him apparently ihis puppy mind decided it was time to poop ,.. big time.I walkd in just after all this happened and he was siting there looking far all the world like he Just had no idea waht all the fuss was about ,..I Loved that dog truthfully more than most people ,.He lived 15 years,. and when I had to put him down I was drunk for most of two days,.Never forget that ChristmassHappy Holidays to all

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 16 weeks ago

ahhh yup ah yup a yupyp ,.. ah did fer sher mean to sugest rebarel that monster ,.. and I ah sho nuf is sorry as a scalded hound to have ruin't yer dayHowevr .308 referes to 4 thosanths goove diamiter times two .30+8= .308 if you didnt know.I realize no name rocker feller scientists like you jes needds sometin to pic at ,..but dam son ists christmasYall shore you aint my former spouce,.. from hell ??and if you aint my x maybe you two shoud date.MR no name it seems mite get to be at times a Pi$$y little fella,.YUK YUK

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

YohanYou said you were going to rechamber 8 x 57 to 30-06? 8mm is .323 diameter and .30cal is .308 diameter. Rechamber?Like to see that!Yohan, you couldn’t hit a bull but with a base fiddle by doing so! Are you sure it wasn't rebarreling?

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohan thanks for your input. It sounds like you have a very nice 98 and sure makes me wish I had been fortunate enough to pick up on some jewels like you did when I was young. The BRNO that my buddy converted was one of three he bought from Century and it was pretty much a piece of sh*t until he reworked it. Total action job initially after pulling every thing else off it to be thrown away. It had been carried a lot but appeared to have been shot only a little. He's got a nice piece now. The same shorthair pup that chewed up his ballistic lab wiring got into the Christmas presents under the tree last night. He's rewrapping them today and wondering what a .416 will do to a shorthair. I'm certain that it is only a momentary thought that will never be acted upon. Again thanks.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Don't worry Yo... I know all about Theo. I never engage unarmed opponents, and you two are loaded for bear.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

oops cpi = consumer price index ,.Meant sami cup

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ya RalphI figured it was you ,..Sly you aint ,..But,... what the hellMarry Christmas anyway ,..Meby wen i get growed up my pelling will cach up to mymo-betta a$$ pects .Oh and Raph do not by the Mule from Theadore ,..Theadore IS a sly one,..and he aint broke neither.You know how much 1/2 mile of fence cost ?I woulda had that cussed animal on a barbacue spit for the neighbors.Uless his name was mayb Palor Budy or Bruce ,..or Ralp YUK YUK ,..Then just blast his a$$ with a load of 8's

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

IshawooaI have a brno 98 WWII vintage ,..got it when I was 16-17.It was a "find" I found out later .It was bran-spankin new ,.. still full of cosmoline,..and I mean full,.. barrel and the action.St one time was going to rechamber it ( from 8 x 57 to 30-06) but then I began to hand load.That changed my mind ,. the gun will shoot pretty well ,.Meaning 5, in 1 1/2 inches at 100 yds.Which being honest is probabaly as good as i can shoot a hunting rifle consistantly.It wears a nice italian walnut stock and has been worked so no longer battle rife but no targetr job either.The laods I settld on for that gun were 153 grain Hornady ( says 150 but they really are 152 - 153) according to powder scale.Remington cases and 50 grains of IMR 4064 they come out the end at just under 2900 fps.Im gonna back the laod op just asmige and try magnum primers tho ,.. then move chatge back up ,. I actually think fps will crawl up near 3000 fps. in 24 inch barrel.This laod does not exceed sami recomendations for 98's. which is 50000 cpiBut looking at the cases after fireing ,. absolutly no indication that action wouldnt take more.Also ( brief aside) after WWIII think one of the ordinaceworks ,. Rock Island comes to mind but not sure conducted pressure tests to see which bolt rifle would let go first.According the the old gunsmith ( my father ) the Springfield blew first ,. then the Mauser 98,. and then the Jap bolt ,.sorry ,..I do not rememebr the name or caliber of that weapon.Apparently the loads they had to feed those rifles in order get them to blow were simply hellatious ,.All guns ( actions) going far beyond expectations.So not to play expert but from personal experiance ,..once the lugs are checked for bearing surface and headspace not an issue ,. i thing these old actions are pretty capable of handling higher pressures,. not of coure the 95's and earlier But a 98 in good shape is the end all to me.Also metric calibers ,.. but thats just a preference thing.Shoot two 180 pond deer,. one with a 30-06 and one with 8 x 57,.would wager significant coin ,. the deer could not tell the difference.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey Guys, the 7.62 NATO is a little hotter, like I said, the Gov. knows what it will be shot in but a commercial co. has no Idea what you will put it through... Either way, I'm not afraid to shoot it in my Rem. and would love to have a good 98K large ring action to build something on. Maybe a good 30.06. Hey guys, when the gun is clean and ready to put up for the season, don't forget the soft brush to put on a very thin coat of a good gun oil. ( Rem Oil and a good shaving brush will work wonders.) you all have a good Christmas and agood hunting year. By the way, went down on The creek yesterday and shot a box uo 17 HMR in a new Marlin Bull barrel Rifle. love it Maybe tomorrow I'll take my new H&r bull barrel .204 down. love the shooting sport. If you guys had been good this year Santa would have brought you the piece you had your eye on...243, 338, 30.06 , you know. stay away from WD-40 for your guns,

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

SA:Thanks for the info. I believe that it might be Chuck Hawks' page that you are remembering. I had forgotten about it but will check. My old Taylor is on a Finnbear magnum action with a 24 inch Lilja. Using 400 gr Hornadys I get about 2375 fps but have never known more about the pressure than what the brass and bolt told me. Accuracy is about 1 to 1.5 inch at 100. John Wooters influenced me to build this rifle but I am yet to make an Alaskan or African hunt that requires it. Nevertheless it is fun to tinker with as my buddy found out shooting load data on .458 brass that he located in my notebook. You are right Winchester should have jumped on it but instead later on loaded .416 Rem in the M-70 as you are no doubt aware. Great round.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

IshSeeing as the .416 Taylor is a .458Win Mag, necked down (something Winchester themselves should have done...) and it pushes those 350 grainers out at about the same clip as both .416 Rem and .416 Rigby, the pressures do have to be a bit on the higher side. There was a site posted a few topics back where all the ballistics from just about any cartridge known to man are listed, Ethan Hawke authors it if memory serves, someone help out on that one please?SA

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sorry I flinched!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

YooperJackI really thought you were joking with us!I think the 7.62 NATO is hotter than factory, especially the 172 grain special ball M118. It shoots 3 clicks higher at 1000 yards over 168 grain match

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sarg,THANKS for the link on the .308 vs 7.62. The author and his methods seem very sound.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My neighbor just built a .416 Taylor on a BRNO Mauser that is dated 1948. I can't find any pressure numbers for the Taylor but figure that it should be somewhat similiar to the .338 and .458 Win but less than the .416 Rem. Collectively what is your opinion of this combination and does anyone know the max pressure for the Taylor? The rifle is built and has been fired about twenty times so this question is after the fact and just to satisfy my curiosity. The guy has a ballistics lab with a strain gauge but his German shorthair somehow recently rearranged the wiring. If anyone happens to know or have an opinion please reply.MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EACH OF YOU AND TO YOUR FAMILIES. MAY GOD BLESS IN A VERY SPECIAL WAY THOSE OF US THAT REMAIN IN UNIFORM.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Chev Jim, It is not a bad idea to chamber the Older Mauser actions in .308.. The mod. 98k used the a very good action for the 30 cal line.. Brownell sold Santa Barbra actions which were Mauser 98 k large ring actions for many years. may still do so. I don't have their cat. anymore but I'm sure they still do.. The mauser large ring has been chambered(Remember, the chamber is in the new barrels) for many bullets. The older 95 mausers may not be as good but the 98k is one of the strongest action ever produced.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey guys, concerned with shooting .308 win. in guns chambered for 7.62 NATO or just the opposite... The gov. knows the cond. of their weapons, they may be hotter, Comercial co.s don't know what you are going to stick the .308 in, so to protect themself, they don't load as hot as the Gov... as per. www.smellysmleshooters.net. I don't shoot the 7.62 NATO in my Rem. 700 because i don't have any. Would I shoot the 7.62 NATO in my Rem. 700, yes if the bullet was right. No armour piercing..

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

If you want to ruin a great firerm continue to use that gook WD 40. It builds up like tar on your hands. Use a quality cleaner such as Gun Scrubber then a oil that Rem makes. If hunting in extreme freezing weather, better wipe allthat oil off and use dry graphit. When thru hunting for season, clean well and oil litely and wipe off excess. be sure and run a oily cloth down the bbl to get a coating insede to oprevent rust. When next season begins, run another lightly oiled cloth down the tube and then wipe with a dry one. Now go shoot and don;t clean till season is over.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Clay CooperI'm sorry. I had always heard that WD-40 was derived from fish oils. I don't troll for Salmon, but I live near Lake Michigan and heard that it works for Salmon, Browns and Steelhead. Since I had more than one source, I ASSUMED it was true. We all know what assume means. It never occurred to me to Google WD-40 as you did.Again, I'm sorry for this mistake.YooperJack

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

yooperjackWD-40 is an oil derived from fish?Man, what have been drinking/smoking!WD40 is not an oil!!!• Welcome to WD-40 * About Us: Our HistoryIn 1953 , a fledgling company called Rocket Chemical Company and its staff of three set out to create a line of rust-prevention solvents and degreasers for use in the aerospace ...www.wd40.com/AboutUs/our_history.html

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

boys I dont even now what you are a talkin about can't make a lick of cents out of any of itShore hope i did not make anybody mad caus i shor don't want to upset you fellers All of you are lots smarter than me shor as my name is Theodore Wesley Partlow and i will be the first to say it and mrs tacket can vouch that my learnin was not so good back in about sixty. I never said that mule was broke to ride but he pulls a plow reel good. Jus park our desel pickup a long ways from the feld that you are a plowin. SOB tore down pert near haf mile of fence last time i left the old dodge idlin near him and he smelt the fums I shot at him with my 742 but must have used too much wd40 in the barel caus i missed Say there anothe case where the 742 is a reminton but uses 243 wincester bullets 5 shots and didn't cut a hair but did wing the plow twice on the share and once on the handel does you reckin the wd40 has somethin to do with leading the running critter

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Another spelling cop? Damn Yohan you hurt my feelings... you know I signed that letter between the lines.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

HMMMMM ,.Well Wes,..you one sly dog you are and it appears I was right,..We do have jess a bit of a wuff in wit da chickens here now,..takes one to know one I guess,..But damn if I rememeber Wes livin in WV ,.but my early years werent the best so maybe thet rented me out for a few years that I dont recal.I did have the pleasure of makin the accuaintance of West Virginian,.. many moons ago,,.But that boy was dangerous,. when he drank liquor ,.. dam fool wouldn't back down from a elephant ,..I liked him all the same though ,..the man had cohonesLost track of him in the 80'sProbably got killed by a elephant.As to our mutual school marm ,.. Im bettin ,. we got another spellin cop,..lurkin in the thick stuff,. like a coyote ,.. nip at ya,.. when your backs trned ,.. but never in a hunert years ,. get him to come at you from the front,..wd40 ?Think the other guys are ( as in each one) right to the extent that experiance has taught them ,..but if I had to pick a winner it would be Bubba and Cooper as I know the properties they mention to be true.Watch that mule now ,. my grand pappy had one ,.. real good animal but for some reason hated hound dogs ,.. dam thig would chase hound dogs all day,.. if you let em.

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I JUST REMEMBEREd that ole man tackets double barel was a elsie smith and not a barker. mrs tacket i would like to see it and if you still got it let me know. in the meanwhile don't be spraying any of that wd40 on it and are you willin to trade for a good mule since it looks like yohan dont want it. i bet the depty would let ralphie out at least for Christmas if i gave him that ole gun that still wool shur made my luger turn shiny will it stay that way

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

THanks boys, i have putwd40 on fishing lures for a long time like Yohan says, shore works. Bubba now i know why that old ithaca dollar grade single barrel is so dark where ye grip it its that dang wd40 asoaking in probably aint worth a dollar any moreI noticed that one of my old elementar school marms wrote in must have been mrs Tackett. I did not know that Yohan evern lived in WV and went to school with me and had mrs tackett too. small world here we all done got. Yohan why did ye leave WV? come on back and we'll have that bear hunt and remember that raphie is a dang good cook when it comes to boilin and rosting ber hams. bet you have eat some when you was a youngin and really miss it. Merry Christmas Mrs. Tackett you must be near a hundert and does old man tacket still got that purty double barrel it was a barker or something like that? thanks to everybody yall are good folks one and all. did yall know that mr dave writes in my huntin and fishin magazin thats how i found this here bogg

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WesNuthin' wrong with WD-40. Ya gotta understand that the stuff is a solvent, not a lubricant! Apply liberally, wipe down to a thin film and will protect firearms very well.If you use WD-40, don't allow it to accumulate on wood. Being a petroleum product, WD-40 has a nasty habit of breaking down the connective tissue in the wood, ergo, your stock begins to weakend and fall apart. This is especially true in the wrist of most stocks.Wipe down with WD-40 (spray it on a rag, not on the gun) and stand the firearm muzzle down to keep oil from saturating the stock.Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WD-40 is an oil derived from fish. Many people coat lures with it to fish in Lakes Superior and Michigan. This apparently helps for Trout and Salmon, but not Walleye. As such, it probably breaks down a lot quicker than petroleum based productsYooperJack

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from Larry wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wes, WD 40-once had a gunsmith show me a box full of ruined trigger's from it, was told by instructor's in office machine school stuff is tabo for use, bought a high standard 22 that took 2 years to clean trigger ass'y. to get crap out, taxidermist recomended polishing mt. goat horn's with it (work's great!). Long story short, it turns to laquer! I rcommend do not use on moving part's. Buy a product made for gun lubricant that say's so on label-so many choice's! Hope this help's.

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from jay wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I've switched over completely to plain old Rem-Oil. There are more hi-tech ways to get guns clean and other oils. But I wanted to clean trigger groups, rifle bolts, (& house door locks) that was simple to do, quick, and very effective. I spray down, let soak 15 minutes, spray down again, shake off and reinstall. I have tried a bunch of different products but Rem Oil turned out to be the most practical.

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

now that Mr. Cooper is one smart feller jus like Yohan. I tell you why its cause those boys down the road at Dogulass barrel factory told me the same thing as Mr. Cooper. the part i got was that it kept water from getting into still. I didn't even know that it did but it does. Water shore will go into a mule but not desel (like larry says thats funny don't care who you are. thanks for all the hep boys i'm goin huntin fer a whileI do wish each and every one of ye a Merry Christmas and a happy new year, maybe i already did that Oh and the depty said he might let raphie out so Yohan come on down and we will shoot us a bear and cook him

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

This is what I do know for fact. WD40 is designed as a water displacement agent used on the Atlas Missile at Vandenberg AFB due to being within yards of the Pacific Surf. WD40 works fantastic for short term corrosion control for rifles and inside the bore that doesn’t dramatically change the first shot unlike Break Free which will shoot abet high and settle back into accuracy after 3 rounds or so. If you’re going to shoot a lot of rounds before cleaning, Break Free works great on reducing the copper fouling especially if your shooting competition like I have were 200 to 300 is the norm. WD40 will break down due to age as any other oil/lubricant, however when it’s time to use your firearm I couldn’t think of a better corrosion preventer than WD40 along with a fine gun oil for lubrication. When I was in Alaska and hunting in 20 to 60 below zero, automatic transmission fluid works best as a lubricant and don’t plane to do a lot of shooting.Before any firearm use after prolong storage or heavy use, I use carburetor cleaner followed by a bath of Coleman Fuel to remove all the solvent that also re pregnant the metal then coated with WD40 and or fine gun oil. Coleman Fuel is a oil also by the way also know as kerosene.Bottom line is, if WD40 works for you use it! Break Free works fantastic as a lubricant on bolts etc. especially autos!

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from Wes & Yohan's elementary teacher wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

You uns qwit yer argyin! WD40 werks fine an dnandy fer guns and efen qures my artheritis. Never beeleif whut paw usses it fer. Oils that there back door yss he dose ifn yoooou uns nows whut I meen. He got a ornnry mule too YUK YUK YUK...

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wes ,.. on the wd40 ,.. only place I have used that stuff is on cranky trailer hitches and squeeky garage door rails.Im an amature carpenter (it just comes naturally) so I probabaly have more tools that the avrgae bear,who dosent make his living with themDid use wd40 on Saws-all once that had sticky blade recepticle.But I dont think I would use it on a gun. Truth is not sure why maybe t eidea that the dtuff under certain cercumstances will build up a viscous gunk.Aint been around this long not to smell a horse trader under that home spun dman smart wonderfull fellers stuff,. Then again could be wrong ,.. just that i doubt it YUK YUKDo not belive im gonna by that mule either ,.. YUK YUK

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WesThe fumes from that wd40 been eating a few of your brain-cells buddy, get out for some fresh air!LoganYour single shot 20 gauge is worth about its model number $15 bucks or so.YohanNo worries, keep posting, long and proud!SA

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave-Don't know if we have asked you this question before, but do you have a favorite rifle/caliber that you believe to be your true friend for all around big game hunting?Limiting big game to not include the dangerous bears or the really big grass eaters.

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from Chucky Flaave wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Gun Owners of America and its supporters took a knife in the backyesterday, as Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) out-smarted hiscongressional opposition into agreeing on a so-called"compromise" onHR 2640 -- a bill which now goes to the President's desk.The bill -- known as the Veterans Disarmament Act to its opponents --is being praised by the National Rifle Association and the BradyCampaign.The Brady Bunch crowed "Victory! U.S. Congress Strengthens BradyBackground Check System." The NRA stated that last minute changes tothe McCarthy bill made a "good bill even better [and that] the endproduct is a win for American gun owners."But Gun Owners of America has issued public statements decrying thislegislation.The core of the bill's problems is section 101(c)(1)(C), which makesyou a "prohibited person" on the basis of a "medicalfinding ofdisability," so long as a veteran had an "opportunity"for some sortof "hearing" before some "lawful authority" (otherthan a court).Presumably, this "lawful authority" could even be the psychiatristhimself.Note that unlike with an accused murderer, the hearing doesn't haveto occur. The "lawful authority" doesn't have to be unbiased. Theveteran is not necessarily entitled to an attorney -- much less anattorney financed by the government.So what do the proponents have to say about this?ARGUMENT: The Veterans Disarmament Act creates new avenues forprohibited persons to seek restoration of their gun rights.ANSWER: What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- hugenumbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be deniedthe right to own a firearm.And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans tospend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regainthe gun rights this very bill takes away from them.More to the point, what minimal gains were granted by the "righthand" are taken away by the "left." Section 105 providesa processfor some Americans diagnosed with so-called mental disabilities toget their rights restored in the state where they live. But then, insubsection (a)(2), the bill stipulates that such relief may occuronly if "the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerousto public safety and that the GRANTING OF THE RELIEF WOULD NOT BECONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST." (Emphasis added.)Um, doesn't this language sound similar to those state codes (likeCalifornia's) that have "may issue" concealed carry laws -- wherecitizens "technically" have the right to carry, but state law onlysays that sheriffs MAY ISSUE them a permit to carry? When given suchleeway, those sheriffs usually don't grant the permits!Prediction: liberal states -- the same states that took thesepeople's rights away -- will treat almost every person who has beenillegitimately denied as a danger to society and claim that grantingrelief would be "contrary to the public interest."Let's make one thing clear: the efforts begun during the ClintonPresidency to disarm battle-scarred veterans -- promoted by the BradyAnti-Gun Campaign -- is illegal and morally reprehensible.But section 101(c)(1)(C) of HR 2640 would rubber-stamp those illegalactions. Over 140,000 law-abiding veterans would be statutorilybarred from possessing firearms.True, they can hire a lawyer and beg the agency that took theirrights away to voluntarily give them back. But the agency doesn'thave to do anything but sit on its hands. And, after 365 days ofinaction, guess what happens? The newly disarmed veteran can spendthousands of additional dollars to sue. And, as the plaintiff, thewrongly disarmed veteran has the burden of proof.Language proposed by GOA would have automatically restored aveteran's gun rights if the agency sat on its hands for a year.Unfortunately, the GOA amendment was not included.The Veterans Disarmament Act passed the Senate and the Houseyesterday -- both times WITHOUT A RECORDED VOTE. That is, the billpassed by Unanimous Consent, and was then transmitted to the WhiteHouse.Long-time GOA activists will remember that a similar "compromise"deal helped the original Brady Law get passed. In 1993, there wereonly two or three senators on the floor of that chamber who used aUnanimous Consent agreement (with no recorded vote) to send the Bradybill to President Clinton -- at a time when most legislators hadalready left town for their Thanksgiving Break.Gun owners can go to http://www.gunowners.org/news/nws9402.htm toread about how this betrayal occurred 14 years ago.With your help, Gun Owners of America has done a yeoman's job offighting gun control over the years, considering the limitedresources that we have. Together, we were able to buck the BradyCampaign/NRA coalition in 1999 (after the Columbine massacre) andwere able to defeat the gun control that was proposed in the wake ofthat shooting.Yesterday, we were not so lucky. But we are not going to go away.GOA wants to repeal the gun-free zones that disarm law-abidingAmericans and repeal the other gun restrictions that are on thebooks. That is the answer to Virginia Tech. Unfortunately, theHouse and Senate chose the path of imposing more gun control.So our appeal to you is this -- please help us to grow this comingyear. Please help us to get more members and activists. If you add$10 to your membership renewal this year, we can reach new gun ownersin the mail and tell them about GOA.Please urge your friends to join GOA... and, at the very least, makesure they sign up for our free e-mail alerts so that we can mobilizemore gun owners than ever before!

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

dang the luck cause i got an old sangle barrel that is marked dollar grade and i hoped it might be worth more than that. if mr. love is right then i am goin to go ahead and cut the top of the stock off with my table saw so I can shoot squerrels with it. Ralphie got it for trapping i think he said. it was made by looks like thaca. i need to get the steel wool and wd40 aholt to it too and get shed of the rust so i can read it better. i'm sure proud you folks are able to help me out

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Logan, Crescent Arms is long gone.Crescent was a company that manufactured mostly utility-grade shotguns for the hardware store trade back in the late 19th on in to the early to mid 20th Century.As a matter of fact, my very first shotgun was a single-shot .410 from the Bridge Gun Company that was I believe actually made by Crescent.I think I read somewhere that Crescent guns were sold under literally hundreds of different brand names.As for worth, I'd guess not any more than whatever sentimental value you ascribe to it as an heirloom or shooter as the single-barrel guns have no collector value at all.Having said that however, I have seen a few of the small-gauge Crescent doubles go for surprising amounts if in good condition.Hope that helps...

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ishwaoadont you be telling my good friend Yohan what to do. I'll tell you tomorrow what the barrel people said about wd40 toi got a dang good mule unless you try to take him somewheres and only got a desel pickup to pull the trailer

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohan: Don't buy that mule.Wes: You are one funny dude, whether you intend to be or not I remain uncertain. The "gals" name was Ronnie but I doubt she is with us any more. Just stop using WD-40, take our word for it.Dave: I beg of you to please initiate a new subject as a Christmas present to all of us.

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from Logan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I have inherited a Crecent Arms No. 15 Empire Ejecter single shot 20 gauge and I was wondering how much it is worth and if Crecent Arms is still around?

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohanthanks for setting me straight on the ironing thing cause I thought that hank was pullin my leg. Like i said you felleers are smart and know more about guns than anybody I know. finally i can get some straight answers except for the wd40 thing. I bet Yohan or this Dave feller know but jus want to make me figger it out. Theres a place down the road at Charleston that make high priced barrels. I wil call them tomorow and find out and then pass it along to you. thanks again Yohan if you are ever in WV stop by and we go look for a bear.ralphie can get you a big un if i get that dang mule sold so he can get out of jail. does anybody remember who that gal was from michigan that wanted a mule did yall know that a savage that smells like desel will spook a muleMerry Christmas to all of you fellers and i hope and pray you all have a good year a coming to you

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey guys are you not sure that This barrel brushing and some of these other methods are as Dav. Petziel has said, A FAD. most rifle will shoot well enough for hunting.Bench rest might be another thing.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wes ,..you betcha ,.. have ironed a bunch of dings out of stocks ,..and other wood things like arrows,..I make and shoot 70lb spine wood arrows ,.. they get dings ,.. when you shoot emSteam takes dents out a lot of the time.number of ways to do it but wet cloth and hot iron works a lot of the time,..

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sarge,.Unfortunate thing with your buddyHope he's OKReally no telling where ,.. I went in up to my chest once in the Necedha area,.. and again close to the Grand River March,..When the mud is that old it really stinks,..My Chesapeak retriever was with me ,in Necedha .he actully tried to pull me out ,..got hold of my sleeve and ripped the "h" out of a nice goose down coat,..But,... better that,..than some cul walking around like nothing happened.while you sink in.No grouse that day ,.. but after change of cloths,...did whack a couple ducks and a goose,..Ulness you got some mutt like craig along ,.. its all good marine,.. its all good.Oh ,.. quick note ,.. one buddy was a cheff back then,..That night he breasted the goose cut breasts up cross grain and gently sauted the meat as if it were beef ,.. then Like that Balalie guy used hot foil wrapped brick on top of meat to finish on grill,.Tell ya what ,.. never wanted wild goose again any other way ,..yohan

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from wes wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My cusin Hank has a 308 normal magnum that he cleans with some fruity stuff called hopps. He puts turpentine and paint thinner on stock. Fool even said that you can iron dents out of wood with a cloths iron. Do any of you fellers know if this is the rit thang to do? I still am wondering what is wrong with wd40. I used it on pappys old luger for years. Say I got to reading that pistol and its got a ancor and a kings crown on top of it and says 9 mm. Its old says 1906I think i will use wd40 and steel wool to clean it like one of you fellers said to do. It got rusty after ralphie droped it in the creek coon huntin

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My brother in law used to shoot a Fox double barrel when we rabbit hunted a few years ago and every season after he stored it all summer, i had to take it down and clean it. i just would not shoot until i did so. The gun was so tight and the grease so hard . I never would use any type grease myself .

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Chev, the only thing wrong with grease in wet or cold is that grease thickens when cold and collects dust and stuff when warm, I would "maybe" use some WD-40 when the gun is wet, but then wipe off and use a good grade gun oil. Breakfree is not expensive compared to the price paid for a nice rifle .You wouldn't go to the dollar store for oil for your new truck...Dave in St Pt., I didn't shoot the 762 in my Rem 700 but love the brass.Yohan, I don't know the exact place the guys went hunting but one guy stepped in the mud up to his waist, sprained his leg and layed around camp the next day..

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Just a few things . . . first, it's a very bad idea to chamber older military rifles for .308 Winchester. Mauser actions from the WWII era were designed for pressures around 46,000 psi. Some .308 Winchester loads can reach 55,000 - 60,000 psi. Ditto for the Lee Enfields. And, yes, some of those Mausers have let go--it's a real tribute to their design that many more haven't blown up, but you're pushing those actions past their design limits when you fire .308 Winchesters through them. As far as barrel break-in goes, I think it's probably not a bad idea to prevent fouling from building up right off the bat, but I never did barrel break-in per se. I bought a Model 700 Mountain Rifle about 20 years ago and took it out to the range in Heidelberg, Germany, and fired about two boxes of ammo through it to sight it in. It shot half-inch, three-shot groups at 100 yards then and does so now--and it's a .30/06. I am certainly glad that I didn't shoot moly-coated bullets; I am a somewhat "late adopter" (used to be early adopter, but learned my lesson). I don't like the idea of having to scrub barrels to get the stuff out, and I've heard that barrels can rust under that coating--just as they can under lead fouling. Lastly, if I may pontificate just a little more, you don't want to use WD-40 as a lubricant. It leaves a gummy residue behind when it dries. It also lifts gold plating off firearms--as many a sorrowful owner of a commemorative firearm has learned. It is great for driving moisture out of metal parts, but a good gun oil or grease should be used to lubricate and preserve metal surfaces from rust. I think RIG grease is unbeatable for rust prevention. Dave P. said he never saw any grease that would survive days of Alaskan downpours, but I think RIG would come the closest to doing so.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

This is perfect Craig ,..The Yohan aint form the big Wi,..I actually DO however own propety ,..in a number of venues ,, and the last mutt I would consider on either my own or a connection is a YOUSo big shot ,. blah blah ,..take care with your mouthAS what your home spun genius proves is that you aint much ,.. in a fight ,.. in a business or in the field.Sucessful soldiers (ones that are alive now) and good hunters ,..The ones who been there done that ,who have taken enough to want to give back are obviously waaay beyond your narrow numb nut little scope ,..of self,..When you pull your head out of the place where sun never shines ,..,. Nahh I was gonna be generous ,.. you just aint worth itBut Hey,.Merry Christmass anyway .

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from craig curtis wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

is everybody from Wisconsin long winded ? and ive got an idea could you girls learn how to use email . so i can read the responses to daves blog that actually pertain to the subject , without scrolling for days through fish biting grouse flushing blabla bla, unless we can come up their and hunt your property well then its a whole new ball game dontya know . to all you hard nosed dave lovers merry Christmas and don't worry the barrel takes care of itself with regular maintenance!!!!!!

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sorry fellers i dozed off for a bit but have since catched up on my reading here. I have got to say that you boys shore kno more about guns and such then anybunch i have been around and i still wish somebody wuld tell me what is wrong usin wd40 in my savage the desel one and one my other one that says 300 savage but it is my old uncles winchester says model70 on the barel. Shore is confusing i once saw a Reminton that said it was a 600 but that said 308 wincheseer on the barrel can any of you explain thisand don't forget to let me in on the wd40 since i can get it at about 2 dollar at walmart That brekfree is higher a cats back and stanks a s bad as my desel savage

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from Gil Martin wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Most of my rifles came off the used gun rack so someone else broke them in some way or another. I cannot tell the difference. I have bought new rifles and cleaned them, shot them and cleaned then again without a problem. If someone wants to micro-manage the break-in process of their rifle that is their right. All the best...Gil

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Here's one for you guysWhen I get stressed which is usaully only by relatives polititions and or certified idiots of one ilk or another.I try to excersice ,.. walking jogging,... stationary bike hitting heavy bag mnay many times,.. etc.The other day I wason the fast traine to a migraine due to dilitory genious of a relative. Dont even wanna guess what my blood pressure was.So,..because I am the boss of my little operation ,.. I gave myself the afternoon off ,. it was that or commit "cairy carrie",.Was headed for a watering hole but decided better not ,..too early.So pulled into local big box sport store,.. The clerk was a certified Pr!@k who new little to nothing about guns ,.. but as it turned out these folks were having a sale on 870 Rems,..Long story short I walked out with two,. 12 & a 20 .Now,.. due (I think) to he fact that I came from VERY humble begiinings,. VERY HUMBLE ,..I have a couple side by side doubles that cost as much as my fathers house way back in the 50 - 60s.That said here's the thing ,.. those two 870's (both) were less than $500. with rebate.(Im just as cheap as the next guy)So I figured what the "H"I'll use em for something ,.. maybe presents for nephews etc,..But then I thought why not shoot em a few time see whats what ,.And gentlemen I will be damned ,..The 20 is my new favorite toy,.. points like my finger cycles like a dream and the pattern is as good ( truthfully better) than the two doubles with a pedagree,..Same thing with the 12 except,..it has a trigger thats just too heavy,.. but that can be handled.Suffice to say I am bowled over by these two smoke poles.They aint purdy ( no pun intended) but they sure as hell shoot.Have the idea mayb a couple doubles gonna get mentioned to a couple of my uppity aquaintences ,. see how much they like em.Learn somethin every day. !!

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from Quiet Loner wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

In about 1982, I tried that. Bought a Ruger 77 in .243 & a scope at a store closing. Hurried to the range with 120 rounds & cleaning stuff. Unfortunately, only .243 brush the man had was in stainless. I KNOW, I KNOW but I had beeen taught to use a stainless brush on pistol bores at an FBI Academy. Gets lead out great but was used for far fewer strokes than in the "break in" bit.Hurried to finish by dark. Wasn't trying for accuracy but began to think groups were getting bigger. After 100 rounds, bore looked like it had been sandblasted. Wouldn't hold a group for more than 5 shots. It probably took around 100 passes with JB impregnated patches on an old BRASS brush to smooth out my break in efforts.

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

i USED wd40 on both my guns for years and now i wonder if i done the right thang after reading this here blogg. did it hurt something i don't see? i do know that deisel fuel will make the black stock on savage 308 turn sort of gray. i figger if it turns cold in the woods i can always set far to it cause the plastic and the desel will burn good. i shore wish somebody would take ralphies mule off my hands caus i need the money to bale him out of jail fer fightin at the roadhouse. jis what is wrong with wd40 anybody ever grease them with bag balm?

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from David Jordan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I used to shoot hunter rifle silhouette. I bought, off the rack a 700rem. in .260. Shot a few shots, then ran a bore swab with polishing compound through bore about 500 pases. All I can tell you is I can shoot 4.5" groups at 500 meters all day.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ok Dave...I'm convinced, for now, so my Rem-700,.35 Whelen, is not going to get the break in treatment when I do some shooting with it. Our range at the local state rec area is under renovation, and I don't feel like shooting indoors, so it will have to wait until the spring.Da*n I hate waiting, and hate city living!

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from WES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

sorry bout my typing boys gues I done drunk too much old grandad for the day so very sorry if i am a drinker cause huntin season is bout over anybody talk fishin ever used dynimit

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from wES wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

com on fellers do any of you remember the brand of off brand scope that michigan gal wanted? i will try and get myself one to trade with the mule but dang it i jis cant figger out what it was that she wanted. i got a savage i need to get shed of to cause ralphie poured deisel all over it trying to get it clean after that last rain so it sort of stanks

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from Joe Anderson wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Iagree with you dave ; Ive owened several savages that shot great the fist and the entire time I owened the gun no break in only great accuracy

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Being a blackpowder, muzzle loading freak I have been told by the folks knowing more about these rifles and handguns than I [NSSA boys and girls] it takes about 200-shots to break in black powder barrels. I saw one black powder silhouette shooters wipe his Sharps and High Walls between every shot. I thought it extreme although black powder is sticky after the 6th shot.In modern rifles the *break in shots* seem more to see the bedding settle.BTW I have been to rifle matches. IMO it’s like watching grass grow. If those guys send a shot down ranges every 15-minutes I’d be surprised.

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from Wulffy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Regarding WD-40: A little bit of it on some 000 or 0000 steel wool is the best rust remover I have used. I buy many used guns, and this always works to remove surface rust and doesn't harm the finish. Give it a try. But otherwise I agree, WD-40 is not meant for guns. And neither is gear lube or the purple or black grease that comes in the cardboard tube for use on the underside of your truck. I have seen that stuff (and smelled it) on the inside of too many semi-auto pistols.

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from wes in WV wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

whatever happened to that hot chick that hunts off an mule in michigan and wanted some kind of off brand rifle scope seems like her name was beau garret and is she still writing us? i have got a mule that she mite like and I'll throw in a good used scope to boot if you are still reading get in titch with me reel soon hon

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Clay,You are right on. Break Free should not be used in a rifle bore, except maybe long term storage. I don't think I would use WD-40 for anything on a rifle. I might use WD-40 on a waterfowl shotgun that gets really wet to displace moisture, but I do like Break Free for my waterfowl M870 because it doesn't evaporate entirely like WD-40.Watch the Break Free around your ammunition, it will penetrate it. Never use any of those lubricants on a revolver chamber if you want it to go bang. Just my 2 cents.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sarge, that M4 or M16A2 flattop in nice. I just wish they would rechamber with a 25-223 instead. By the way, I had to put my 2 cents in at http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003909.htmlI know my grammar and spelling sucks! but I believe I got my point across.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hi SargeSwampy grouse country ,.. Hmm well,.. lets see.Most of the middle of Wisconsinis an ancient lake bed,. so there is one "H" of a lot of area that could be called swampy,.. and there is also what known as "The barrens" which in some places resembles tundra.The grouse places I used to go to shoot a lot of grouse and deer is west of Baraboo in what are called the Baraboo Bluffs.Mostly private land though.Oak and maple interspersed with popler and birtch ,. beautiful in the fall.But I have also whacked a lot of grouse in Jackson and Juno Co which has the Meadow Valley Wild Life area and the Necedha refugeThey are back to back and cover a lot of territory.Together maybe 150,000. acresOne square mile is 640 acres so these public areas alone are 234 sq miles +/-There is plenty of roomTwo major forests in the North are Chequamegon,. and Nicolete.They have Grouse, deer bear and maybe a suquatch or two.Have nevr seen one but do know peope who say they have,..and they dont drink any more than i do YUK YUK ,.. whioch trutfully isnt very much. Who knows?I also had good luck on grouse in the Taylor co section of the ChquamegonGot my Norwegian behind lost once up closer to Michigan too.Due to compass poles getting reveresed (yup you heard right reversed) there are ore deposits up there that raise hell with a compass.So if you and yours intend getting back away from civilzation ,. take something with GPS so you dont spend the night under a tree waiting out bad snow storm like I did.Dont mind telling peple about these places cause they are SO damn big ,.. you couldn't hunt it all in a life time,.. or two.Ok gotta goHappy Holiays.

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from Yode wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave, I had a gunsmith tell me he wouln't do it with a rifle, but would shoot then clean after a single shot with a new muzzle loader. So does it matter the gun?I say gunsmith, but it was the gunsmith at a Gander MTN not a world renowned gunsmith the likes of which you talk.My dad was told by a guide in Texas over cleaning a gun with copper/lead removing solvents can hurt the accuracy.So my second quesntion is how often to clean a rifle? a Muzzle loader?

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

"I must of been a good boy this year?"Or you "got away with it". :)On the Ishy .308, is anyone SURE that the chambers will hold up to pressure of the .308 Win (62,000) as well as the 7.62 NATO (50,000)?Thanks

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ps-I think "Santa" wife is getting me a scope for my Whelen...I must of been a good boy this year?

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Has anyone here seen the jungle carbine chambered in the .308Win?I have seen an enfield model sporterized this way at a local gun shop for around $300. The gun is in decent condition, and their gunsmith has certified the gun as properly chambered and safe to shoot.Anyone have any experience with this type of weapon?

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Clay, Sarg,Here is an article on the Ishapore 308 / 762 that says you should not shoot 308 due to pressure.http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.aspI am NOT trying to argue with you I just want a answer as I would REALLY like to by an Ishapore if I can shoot normal .308 Win in it.THANKS!

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from SFC, Retired wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Always fire a fouling shot before you go hunting. Tried molly coated bullets-did not like them. This year I started using a new product called ultra bore coat on my rifles. So far the results are very good. UBC won't cure buck fever or a flinch but it does reduce copper, lead and powder fouling. Once the bore is coated you can clean with nothing but a solvent patch and a couple dry patches (no borebrush at all). Dave, have you seen anything about this stuff. I heard it was tested on machine guns during development.I got mine from a friend and so far I love the stuff.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Right again Clay.. If you keep all the brass of the same make together, it's a plus for accuracy because of case capacity due to the differant thickness .wd-40 is good to clean with but I will not use it as a lube or preservative(I think I spelled that wrong) I do like BreakFree. Did you get to go to Military .com and read about the M-4 carbines?..

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Before the day I plan to hunt, I try to go out and shoot 3 to 5 rounds then using a patch lightly coated with WD40 swab the barrel. If you want to really blow your first 2 shots, clean you rifle and run a patch with break free thru it. Now break free works great on keeping the fouling down. You just have to fire 5 rounds for accuracy. I’ve been told by a reliable source not to shoot molly coated bullets. It’s the best way to screw-up a barrel unless you want to shoot molly for the life of the barrel.By the way, WD40 is not a lubricant!

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

To be perfectly honest, I never hunt with a clean barrel. My bro-in-law who is a gun freak which is one step beyond a gun nut told me a long time ago never to hunt with a clean barrel. Supposedly the residual gunpowder grabs the bullet and helps the rifling... I know for a fact that my Knight muzzle loader's first shot out of a clean barrel is unpredictable, but I can't really testify to much more than that. I always keep the Knight clean and on the morning I hunt pour some black powder down the barrel without a projectile and pop a cap at home. No pressure and no loud boom but it does shoot an awesome shower of sparks and makes that first shot count... you score on the first try more often with dirty girls and guns.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave in St PeteThe only difference between the brass of the 7.62 NATO compared to 308 Win is the thickness of the case. The 7.62 is a heaver case with all the dimensions the same, just another name like 13mm Auto or .45 CAL.SargI know for a fact you’ll love those 130 grain Hornady’s!!!!!!!!!!!After 11 years of NRA High Power competition, I’ve heard it all! From fire lapping to cleaning every so often. Hell, as long as I can hear the gas piston fall back and forth in my M1A during a match, I’m good to go and still kick tail 85% pluss of the 300 Mag’s at 1000 yards and that’s after 200 rounds without cleaning!

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from JW wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey Dave, thanks for the 411.I was at a rifle rang earlier this year & was wondering why this guy next to me had an entire cleaning kit with rods, solvent & patches cleaning the barrel after every shot.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wulffy ,Clay put me onto the 130 gr loads for my .308. I'm getting ready to try these myself..Thank you Clay It makes sense to load this load, it's in the "" Hornady Reload Manual""

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave in St.Pt, The .308 win should be the same round as the 7.62 NATO.. I've used many 7.62 cases in my .308 win. as a matter of fact, I love the Lake City match cartridges..

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from Wulffy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Yohan and Jim,Thanks guys for the ideas on my mauser. I am not too worried about the bolt lugs, I lapped them prior to setting the new barrel, and they have great contact. I was wondering about the scope, and will be trying a different one soon. I may also try a different trigger (borrowed a Bold trigger from my bro-in-law). I am also wondering if a lighter slug would help, as it got better from 180 grain to 150 grain. I haven't looked for lighter .308's, but may have to reload some lighter and check the results. Thanks again.

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Cadillac_Jack,I have read that you can not (or at least should not) shoot .308 Win out of the Ishapore. That .762 NATO was the only safe round due to chamber pressure.Is this correct?Thanks.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

RalphI have heard that some guides in AK used .35 Whelen's as a client back up gun. I have read that, too. I believe from Wayne van Swoll articles or book.While I cannot testify to the facts above, I feel comfortable withthe .35 in bear country. I don't like the .338 Win mag due to recoil at the range. That might be better, but marginally so at close range.

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from Cadillac_Jack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I bought one of the Ishapore Indian .308 Win. Enfields a few years back. My Gunsmith said the barrel was shot out. I found the section he said was bad (about 3 inches down from the muzzle) and milled it off. I polished the bore with lapping paper. I started at 600grit and worked through 1200grit. It took about 100 strokes of the entire bore with each grit. When I finished, it would keep shots under a 1 inch circle at 100 yds.I wonder if lapping paper would help with a rough bore on a new rifle? Or would it ease the break-in process?

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from lynn wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I hate to change the subject but need a recomendation from you folk. I need a .223 AR style target rifle. Needs to shoot 1"MOA, semi auto and accept a quality scope. It does not need to be too heavy (so wife can use) as it is going to be used for coyotes and stray dogs getting at my cattle. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. I really don't want to spend $3k either, value is important.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Thanks for the info WAMtnHunter...I have heard the 250grain Rem factory loads were accurate, and in my state of Michigan they will shoot flat enough I suppose?I was tempted to try some of the Nosler custom fodder, but I have always had success with my handloads, so I'll stick to working up a load.The Whelen may not be the panacia of the big game hunter, but I bet it could hold it's own against Moose and Grizzly bear, too!

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from Troy S. wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Well, what do you know?Petzal and I actually agree on something for a change!;-)

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from Ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Scott:You certainly are correct in comparing "normal shooters" to the benchrest guys. The latter is in another league altogather. This was first brought to my attention some years ago when one of these fellows showed me a used target. I remarked that the one ragged hole was rather fantastic shooting for a 5 shot 100 yard group. He blankly looked at me and replied "Its 10 shots at 200 yards." As my mouth feel open he showed me his custom somehow modified one of a kind 6 mm PPC based superduper Ford F-350 rear axle sized barrel one hole puncher. My .338 still works better on elk. As they say "whatever trips your trigger".

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

DaveSince in my experience the average hunter/shooter can do more harm than good with ye olde cleaning rod. There is a bit of hokum going on here. Hokum is the substance likeliest to cause first born sons to yaw like a rich man's sailboat in a Nor'easter!If you have a rifle which doesn't group very well out of the box it is better to check bedding, muzzle crown, action lock-up and the trigger before trying witchcraft. Next might be to shoot it a bit, without undue cleaning, to get used to it; factory rifles are 'one-size-fits-most' and so that 'practice' word someone used above comes into play.If all above fails to make the thing behave then witchcraft (or the local pawnbroker) might be the next step!Happy Solstice to All!SA

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ChadAdd " Take non-shooter to next gun show." to your list.

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Chad,My NIB breakin in just about the same.Take it out of the box, clean it, take it to the range and shoot.I have had one NIB that I didn't like (Puma Lever) sent it back, got another that shoots fine.I clean all of my guns after shooting no matter if it was one round or 100 rounds and if they have been in the safe for more than a month I swab the barrel and re-oil 'just because'.Never had a problem and even my Puma is now sub MOA at 100.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ralph the RiflemanMy .35 Whelen shoots the 200 gr Remington's good enough. The 250 gr Remington SP's shoot very well, but are a tad slow for me. I once used them for hunting thick timber, particulary in bear country. The Federal 225gr Trophy Bonded's shoot extremely well in my rifle, typically under an inch. They also shot clean through an elk at 246 yards. Also shot through a mule deer end-to-end. I have never recovered one from a deer or elk. I once bought some of Nosler's Custom Ammo with 225 gr Partitions. They did not achieve the advertised velocity and didn't group quite as well. Nosler also has an Accubond in 225gr. Those can be store bought loaded through MidwayUSA. I have not tried them. Zero'd at 2.5" high at 100 yards, the TBBC's shoot just fine for elk sized beasts out to 350 yards. The .35 Whelen is not the end all be all of elk rifles, but the mojo sure has worked for me.That 8mm Rem Mag is an elk stopper, too.

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from Carney wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

RALPH THE RIFLEMANMy Marlin 1895 like the 300 grain best (so far). Of factory ammo it only likes the PMC 320 grain +P+.Go to my page at LiveHunt.com/Carney and you can see my targets!

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from Scott wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

ISHAWOOA,True enough. You know, when you stop and think about it, the logic behind polishing a barrel stands to reason. But, considering most people accept groups that would be considered normal to all but a bench rest shooter, from mass produced barrels... the time taken to polish a factory made barrel, I feel, is wasted. Some would argue otherwise, I suppose. Time is a valuable commodity and if one spends money on a precision barrel, it supersedes, IMHO, the time spent polishing a standard one.

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Here's my surefire barrel break-in procedure:Take gun from rack.Cycle bolt a few times.Remove bolt.Eyeball bore.Inform pawn shop owner the bore looks "a little rough."Dicker.Dicker some more.Take gun home.Clean it.Take it to range.Hope I didn't get screwed.Which is a convoluted way of saying it's a moot point for me as most of my guns are purchased used anyway...

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

To WAMtnhunter-I'll keep you updated on my .35 Whelen.I purchased a few boxes of the 200 grain Rem factory load for practice and brass collecting. I plan on handloading a .225 grain Nosler, or Hornady,speer?, bullet for hunting.My research about the Whelen seems to indicate the .225 grainer is the best load for all around hunting retaining MV & ME down range.Speaking of the Rem Classic rifles, my son's friend's father has a Classic in 8MM-Rem mag, according to him that has never been fired. Now, I have asked if he is interested in selling it, and the answer is NO for now....I can't understand why one would buy a rifle and not shoot it? I mean, if it were a very rare, or unshootable, I could justify it of course.

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from Jim wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Wulffy:Before you give up on your Mauser, try swapping off that nice scope for another hunk o' glass and see wha' hoppen'. Sometimes even good scopes go south, and the rifle gets all the blame...

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from ISHAWOOA wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Scott:Last I knew David Tubb actually sells a bullet based barrel break-in kit that is not that much different from what you suggested. I have never felt the need to try it but who knows maybe it works for some folks.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hey guys , did some research on how long a standard roll of toilet paper lasts, depends on how much paper work was done..

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

well said Scott,Yohan, we went out early one year after Some Muskies, A twelve year old with us, Two people went one way from the ramp, Two went the other.. About 15 or20 minutes into the outing We saw the other boat comming to meet us.. The 12 year old had indeed caught a 50" musky with very lite gear, not suitable for Muskies, especially 50"ers. But, the Musky had just spauned and was very weak. Given it about another 30 minutes, he would surly not have landed that fish.Back on the Grouse, Several people I worked with went to Wi. grouse hunting. They said the grouse were plentiful but. where they were at was very swampy. They had to be very careful about getting lost. You may have an idea where they were. They really had a great hunt. Most people here that go away for Muskies, go to Canada, but I believe I would go to Wi. myself.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ralph the RiflemanI would be interested to find out how well your new M700 .35 Whelen shoots "new". My M700 Classic (1988) did not shoot very well until I put a few rounds through it and several thorough cleanings.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Mr. Dave is screwing with reality versus imagination. I say leave those people alone that want to think they’re breaking in a barrel.And, whatever you do, don’t even think about telling them that Webster removed “gullible” from the dictionary.

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from Scott wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Maybe if we used stainless steel bullets with a 600 grit finish and shot exactly 42 rounds before cleaning with a cloth patch made in England and solvent made in Wisconsin, all the while standing on one foot...the method might work as a polishing agent in the barrel. Or not. I suppose a wink's as good as a nudge, eh?

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Bubba, Glad to read your report, just bought a new Handy Rifle in .204 ruger.. Needto shot somein it...

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Oh well,Never been able to afford a real "custom" rifle. Every new firearm I've ever owned was "factory". Can't think of but one that I had accuracy problems with out of the box. That was a Handi-rifle in .22 Hornet.I cleaned, cursed mightily, fiddled with the scope(an older Weaver K4), diddled with reloads, neck sized, full length sized. It shot like the blogger above, a punt gun!Finally got the thing to shoot fairly well and just kept shooting it.Recently:Win small rifle primer9.75 grs Herco 240045 gr Sierra spire pointThis rifle must be cleaned after 20-30 rounds or accuracy suffers!Load 9.75 +/- and accuracy suffers! It's a superb round, but very finicky. And it ain't the barrel.Bubba

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Ka,I left out, of course, after the wire brush bit, running cloth patches through the barrel til they come out clean - then oiling to sit out for a while.Later

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from David wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Glad to hear from the most on this blog and Doc Dave that this break in method seems to be BS.I also heard about this break in method after shooting many rounds through my guns.I have always wondered what if?I can now sleep better.Right out of the box to this day they shoot and hit where I aim it everytime.

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Sand or no sand, that's way, way too many jams. Sounds like they were trying something new that didn't work.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

sorry about the typing, need to proofread. in hurry this morming.(need to learn how to type)

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from sarg wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Before one could truthful say that their barrel shot better after this many rounds or after this many freeze shootings, i would think that to be honest, each round would have to be exactly the same, shot under controlled conditions etc. Grant you I've seen barrel shoot different after alot of shootings. some time improving anly to deteriate a little latter. Reminds me of the testing on the new M-4 issued to the army. It was on this wise: 10 M-4s. (new). 60,000 rounds, 886 hang-ups. this was determined to be:6,000 rounds each with 6.8 Jams for each 1000 rounds. 98% of the rounds fired OO.K. 868 minor stopage, wiyh 19 requiring an armorer to clear. what they for got to mention were if the jams were in, say three or four of the weapons with the other seven or eight with no jams. .. by the way this info is at: Military.com. and wwereconducted in a very sand condition. IS this a very good test..was the results calculed .or bias. openions?

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I don't like this tagging out early crap.Seven deer in the yard this morning chewing clover - with impunity! Driving the dogs up and down the place.I can get extra doe tags for the first time in NC this year. But I don't have the heart anymore this season. Plus, I still have concerns if "he" were to step out.You know - him?What an idea for F what to do when on an extra doe tag hunt, and the biggest buck you've ever seen steps out.

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

KaAnimal,I use a ram-rod to run a wire brush through my barrel after soaking with some liquid gun-scrubber. It does a great job; once a year after the deer season; the 45 cal, the 30.06 and the .22 just to say I did. The 45 cal is a muzz. so I do it 3 or 4 times a season. You can usually find attachments in most inexpensive gun cleanig kits. It surley gets the rest of the ugh out, which in my opinion, is what helps the barrel shoot better.

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from Bill wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I got tired of the GBBF and just use GB on a swab for about 50 strokes. Seems to work OK for me.Thanks...Bill.

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from retired waycar rider wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Right-on Jack--100 rounds--(practice)--and the copper brush always works wonders for me

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Correction... I meant Rem-700 in .35 Whelen

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Carney-My Marlin 1895SS seems to favor heavy bullets better then the 300 grainers.I must admit I have not been shooting it as much as I would like, and maybe with some time at the reloading bench I can get find a load more pleasing to my pumpkin thrower?My next project is shooting my new rifle;M700-Whelen...and so the barrel break in question haunts me again!

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from Carney wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WOW! I love finding out that I didn't ruin my gun barrel after all!The fact that it's a 45-70, which lobs 300 grain jacketed hollow points, with nearly the worst possible ballistic coeffecient, at 2000fps into just barely over MOA groups(and I mean 1/16th of an inch barely over!), was never really enough to keep me from feeling guilty over screwing up that "break in" formula! WOW! Now I feel great!But then, maybe it would be sub-MOA if I'd only listened to the experts...

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

WulfyCheck the locking lugs especially front ones,. sometimes they don't bear equally when closed ,.which can affect accuracy in a rather spectacular way.Use magic marker on inside of lugs work the bolt a few times.If marker on one side does not wear off or wears significantly less likely need a gunsmith to help that situation out.Its a lapping procedure.Had one like that years ago couldnt hit a cerial box a 50 yds.When the smith got done with it ,.it was a vertual tac driver.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

SargOccasionally I wake up thinking. Which is on occasion dangerousAs a Stock Broker I"cogitate" now an again upon what is best for clints and my own financial well beingTonight I decided ,..didnt like the direction I was thinking and so turned to this blog to clear my thoughtsRead you comment in another section about Grouse and what are refeirred to as Skies ( musky).As known Locally up in Madison WII dont think its regionally known that the smallest lake of the four in that city (lake Wingra) is swarming with Musky ,.. the two bigger lakes Monona nd Mendota also support a truck load of the skies.Its a pretty town too,.. not what you would consider cheap but certianly not a Chicago price structure,..I was fly roding for blue gills there a few years ago and the strangest thing happned.A musky guessing 40 + inches pretty much "sipped" a number 12 spidderI thought what the heck, took up slack ,.. hooked it just inside upper lip played that puppy ( on 4 lb leader) for nearly an hour,.. had it to within neting range ,.. but as I was blue gill fishing ,. no netSo,.. I reeled rod tip in close to fish ,.. was going to try knocking fly out with rod tip.No go,.. fish didnt like it and broke off ,..But this to say there is some very good Musky fishing right in the state capital of WI,..as well as the ledgeondary Manitowish water area.Grouse are down now in Southern WI ,.. have fanatic grouse hunting friends who go up there ,.. all te time,..They say that now you need to go way north to get into decent populations.I spent a littel time hunting deer near Eagle River WI this year ( gun seson) and I saw some grouse.Whicj usually neans if youeseem when your not looking for them ther is afew around.Grouse are amazing,.. have had em watch me as I walked by on logging trail,.. could have killed em with a stick and have seen em so spooky they flush at the click of a car door closing.Oh well grilled venison and ,.. bacon wraped grouse breast on a bed of wild rice cream corn cranbery sause along with some good sourdough bread ,.. is enough to get me in the woods most years.

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from KaAnimal wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

To ishawooa:What is Dr. Ralph's copper brush method? I did a couple of searches and didn't find anything...Just interested in an old P'dog shooters advice.

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from Wulffy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I have been on both sides of the break in fence. I have done it with some rifles, and not with others. On the other hand, most of the rifles I buy are used (already "broke-in", just in need of a good cleaning). However, I just finished building a mauser sporter, of course with a new barrel. The barrel is floated, the action is glassed, the bolt lugs lapped, the head space is correct, the trigger is crisp and consistant at 4.5 pounds, and the scope is a rather nice Nikon that is mounted tightly and in good alignment; I decided to break in the barrel. I am not as obsesive about my breaking in as I have heard others are, and did a 30 round quick break in method I have read about. I have since been out to sight in the rifle, only to find that it will not group better than 7 inches at 100 yards with 150 grain slugs. With 180 grain slugs, it won't even stay on paper. I have put 70 to 80 rounds through it so far, and can only hope it gets better after 100 rounds, but I cannot figure it will go from 7 inch groups to less than 3 inch groups (minute of deer or bear) just by putting a few more rounds through it.By the way, anybody want to buy a beautiful .308 mauser sporter? :)

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from Trae B. wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Hmm.I read just a while ago that gun makers will run a wire brush down a barrel to rough up the grooves in the barrel so the bullet wil catch and spin a bit faster to make them more accurate.so I think its a good thing to keep them clean but rough is ok too.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I don't care if my kids get yaws. I just don't want them to pitch or roll.Merry Christmas to all. Have a happy and prosperous New Year.

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

On the subject of various accuracy tips and gun voodoo, Jeff Cooper used to write, "If you think something helps, then it probably does." 100 rounds down the barrel won't hurt it any, and might seat the action just a little bit more firmly into the stock bedding, if there is any give there. And confidence is half the battle.All my guns that shot well, shot well right out of the box, except for those that never shot well no matter what I did. But for me, 1" at 100 yards for three shots is shooting very well. Benchresters and other target shooters, who measure groups to the hundredth part of an inch at that range, don't look at .1" as a negligible gain; they look at it as enough to win a match. I'll bet Dave fusses with his target rifles as much as the next man.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Dave...you know this topic brings out all the gun experts;thus my 2 cents worth.I still am not sold on the barrel break in theory, but on a recent article from a competitor's magazine the author claimed that MOST CUSTOM rifle builders break in a barrel BEFORE it is delivered to the customer.Now, as I have stated before most of the military snipers I know use a barrel break in method, as well.Is this science? Of course not, but a barrel being new only once are we doing any injustice to the accuracy Gods by braking in a barrel? It may even give you a slight psychological edge in paying attention to trigger control,breathing, and hitting the target!

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from KalamaKowboy wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My thoughts exactly jack.

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from jack wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

It seems that shooting 100 rounds through a new barrel resembles something some folks call practice.[shuffles back to the cave]

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

My dad and I shot Benchrest competition for a number of years before he passed away in '98. Everyone had their own method of cleaning and Barrel Break in rules for New barrels. We subscribed to the 1 shot clean for 5 shots, then 2 shots for the next 10 etc. We tried lots of different products and concoctions to try to get them clean faster. Since you would always clean between record matches, you would clean a gun as much as ten times a day. We found that during the day we would use Sweets (heavy amonia content) and at the end of the day JB Bore Paste worked the best. The JB is abrasive and will remove anything including Molly. It also acted as a rubbing compound and would smooth the tool marks in the bbl and a smoother bore fouled less. I still use it especially on new bbl. I don't use molly coated bullets anymore, instead I coat most of them with Danzak. With danzak you don't put Canuduram wax on them to keep the molly in place. I don't compete in Bench Rest anymore and I'm sure the BR boys have many new and interesting ways and theory's on how to make a rifle more accurate. Most of them will envolve the purchase of their new can't miss formula or gadget. Some will actually work. And trust me they are WAY ahead of the Manufactures on R&D.Merry Christmas and Good Shooting to all.

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from WAMtnhunter wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I hear you, Dave.Whether myth or legend, my Weatherby Mk V with a button rifled Krieger Criterion barrel seems to group better now that I have about 250 rounds through it, always with good cleanings. My son's 7mm Rem Mag maintains very good accuracy with only infrequent superficial cleaning. My .257 Roberts shoot well whether clean or dirty. So who knows?

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Well,.. if you ask me( realizing no one did)Here again is my two cents.My father was a gun smith of a very paracticle nature,..Having been one in the army (WWII) he had a lot of barrel experiance by the time he was a lot younger than 90% of any on this blog.Plus he worked for Olin or a number of years.Where they shoot guns to determine barrel life until they wear out.His take was that on occasion a barel will shoot better after a certain number of rounds through it. Yet on no consistent basis, nor should it be considered a given or rule..A lot of "accuacy" being accounted for by either barrel vibration,.. and or the tigger.Or the shooter getting "the feel" for the gun.Personally I have had only one rifle that shot better after about 40 rounds.It is an 1895 Marlin in the 45-70. New out of the box,. the targets for first 20-25 rounds looked like I shot it with a punt gun,..but along about round # 40 ( had cleaned in once atlike 28-29) it settled down,. and now shoots to a very respectable zero.Just my two cents.

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from Scrap5000 wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

Awesome, Dave, thank you. This actually was something I was worried about...not in a panic or anything, but something that made me cringe a little when I thought about it. Now I feel a lot better for not having done this, ever. Was wondering why my rifles all still shot so well anyway. And now I can rest knowing that a shoe will not drop unexpectedly.You are a definite nerve calmer, Dave. Thanks.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I've had good barrels that shot bad and bad barrels that shot good. Generally a barrel from one of the big name makers will work OK to exceptional regardless of manufacturing method or system of break-in. I have used Dr. Ralph's copper brush method upon advise of an old prairie dog shooter who went to the big dawg town in the sky back in '99 and have found it to work amazing well. Must be something to it. We always attempt to make a science out of riflery but somehow the art always slips back into the picture.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 17 weeks ago

I think any barrel shoots better after a hundred rounds have been fired through it. There's definitely a break in period that smooths the bore but whether cleaning after so many shots or whatever has anything to do with it I can't say. Maybe there is such a thing as the perfect barrel with no imperfections and from day one it starts to deteriorate, but I doubt it. I have noticed that a copper brush run through a gun for an hour or three will vastly improve the accuracy. I have done this with several rifles some of which were old and dirty and some of which were almost brand new with the same result.

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