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June 13, 2008
Investing in Rifles
By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily
Cabela's in Ft. Worth, Texas has your exact gun for $2,200 used with a different scope.
Shoot I'll give you $100 for the Weatherby scope... go to gunbroker.com and you can auction it online. Put it in the paper or take it to a local gun store and sell it on consignment. I'll warn you nobody wants a left-handed gun though. Keep it and pass it on down the line is your best bet, and why are you trying to sell grandpa's gun anyways? I know it doesn't take up that much room. Hide it in a closet and pretend you never saw it and maybe you'll have a left-handed child who inherited that hunting gene...
Put an extra zero on that %500 I might sell it to you LOL..Carolyn
The rifle is a Weatherby Mark V 300 mangum left handed It says Made in Japan. We were just looking at it. The design is called Lazer mark design The conditon is near mint as far as I am concerned. It has a Weatherby us made scope Ithink it was 9 x 44 have to look again. Hubby is looking online said it is made of rose wood. And the one online he is looking at only has 2 lazermark oak leaf pattern ours has it on 3 places. Also we have another stock just like it. If you have any other info for us I would appreciate it. Where would be the best to take it to sell it ?? Thanks..Carolyn
p.s. I'll give you $500 sight unseen...
Carolyn you should probably have someone look at the gun. It is worth $800 to $1200 depending on condition but it could be a Crown Custom worth $5000 or more. There are many Weatherbys and the fancier the stock the higher the price... punching my name will take you to their web site and maybe you can determine the model and look at the price of a new one. Guns do not lose much value.
I would appreciate if anyone can tell me how much my husbands rife is worth. It was his fathers. And we need to scale down our home items and move. It is a Weatherby 300 magnum mark V. Very fancy and with a scope. It had a mark on it so his father bought another fancy stock to replace that one which never got on. So we have both. I believe they both have a few marks now. We just need to know approximately the price and were to take it to sell it. Thank you all for your time. Carolyn
Milton BurtonSorry I was so slow getting back to the F&S blogs.I stand corrected! Turnertown, not Turner Town!I had the priviledge to visit the shop once. Being in my late 20's, I was too "intelligent" to realize just what was going on around me! Unfortunately, we only spent about 15 minutes there!I once bought a Ruger No. 1 in .300 Win Mag. The scope I purchased to sit atop my custom stocked, barreled action (it came with target blocks!) purchase would not clear the barrel! The store I worked in was only about 80 miles from "Turnertown". One day, the owner called me to the front of the store. He was talking to a gentleman as I approached and asked me, "Is you .300 in the back?"I replied, "Yes."He then said, "This is Doug Jackson, he runs Jackson's Custom Guns in Turnertown and he can probably make you a scope base!"I shook hands and introduced myself, retrieved my gun, handed it to him. Two weeks later, Doug himself delivered the rifle with a custom built (though you couldn't tell!) scope base!It was the only two times I ever laid eyes on the gentleman. Wish I had taken the time to go to Turnertown and get to know him better!Bubba
No,way.D'arcy would never sell you a 20k M70 with mickey stock and have it lose its value.
The worst rifle stock on the market? Ruger!
Dr. RalphNate the webmaster has all our addresses. Maybe we should petition him to banish this guy if he's been a pain for so long.Maybe I don't have the right to say that but sick is sick and it could get worse.
I cried myself to sleep last night Dr. Ralph.. Now check this out! http://nimbusters.org/forum/forum.php?board=8
Show me Jim, this freak Hinton has been a thorn in the side of our site for years... luckily he has been away a long time so he is new to you but basically he's a sub-human sexually deviant sicko with Nazi's and gays as his main interests. His life is spent spamming on hundreds of sites trying in vain to make anyone out there as miserable as he.
I consider any gun I buy, trade for, etc as an investment and a tool to use for my pleasure of hunting. If I wanted a gun just to have a gun on hand, then I'd go to Wal-mart and buy a China tin can made gun. You get what you pay for, by cheapos and thats what you always will have. Pay a little more and buy a quality firearm and the value will always be there and maybe more, depending on the Brand, Caliber and demand. Beware of gun shows, as a rule a gun ther is not perfect, it has a flaw someplace. hey know you can't shot teh gun ther and when you do shoot it and find the problem, they guy at the show is 10 states away.I was at a Hotel in Colorado some years back and a guy parked beside me in a VAn. I bet he had l00 long guns and many more handguns insie. I ask what he was up to and he stated he went to many states and always bought flawed fiearms, some he could fix, others he could not,sold as were but he traveled all over the country, but never the same towns twice. Many crooked dealers around, find a dealer that has been in business a long time, buy from him. If a problem, you can return. I know for a fact as I have done just that. Shop for a gun as you would a wife???????
Buddy,What the heck was that post all about?Your a sick man, nobody will go to anything you post again.
http://nimbusters.org/forum/forum.php?board=12 Subgurls.com Wand of the Fairies Discussion Board
Investing in rifles may be a nice plan but just how many of us are willing to let go of them? I don't sell rifles... never have... inherit them, buy them, trade for them, build them and pass them on to your children. That's what my dad and granddad did and I will too... If we don't pass on the tradition and heritage and guns to our children who will?
Hey Jim:I've got a 3 yr old Granddaughter who is definitely southpaw. I've got a 3 yr old Grandson who maybe is. I've got two 6 yr old Granddaughters who are definitely right. Also have 2 sub 1 yr old whom I can't tell yet.YooperJack
PSWadda ya mean 'might be left handed'? How far you thinking ahead or is that stimulus check burning a hole in your pocket? HaHa
Yoop,I would think a left handed rifle would hold value better cause you have to make an effort to find one.
Anyone have an idea as to whether left hand rifles hold value as well as right hand? I'm talking about bolt action quality rifles. Weatherby, Sako, Ruger, etc. I'll probably still buy one as I have a couple of grandkids who might be left handed. I'm just curious.YooperJack
I always consider any firearm and invetmnt and a enjoyment to use hunting. Have bught and traded firearms for yeas, and so far nade some $$$$. However, I like to hunt with a nice looking rifle if it shoots as i prefer. No doubt Wood stocked fiearms are much more beautiful than the syn's, but teh Syn's have a place in gthe field. All depends on wher you are hunting and climbing mountains. I have both Wood and Syn's and each shoots to my liking. AS for Value, it all depends on what the other fellow is willling to pay for your gun. I have guns that are worth a few thousand dollars and some worth 500.00. Each shoots great for me and brigs down teh game I;m hunting. Pride of ownership is another consideration. Some people collect this and that, me its firearms. If I needed to sell for extra cash in AM, any gun I got would bring a premium.Regardless, buy what you like and can afford, shoot often and straight
I have had only one gun purchase appreciate in value and at the time I was completely unaware of its value. I bought a 99 on 300 Savage for $350 dollars when I was 18. It was the second year I hunted and I didn't want to borrow a rifle again. I saw the add in the paper knowing little about makes and models of firearms but I heard 300 was good(thinking) 300Win. But the rifle was looked cool and none of my buddies owned one. The caliber difference was explained I bought the correct ammo and went to the range. It shot nicely and a fellow shooter offered me $900 dollars before I left. SOLD. This spurred my interest outside of the utilitarian in guns and I still wish I had never sold it. And aside from a hideous but amazingly fun to shoot AR-15, that 99 is still the most valuable firearm I have owned. Granted were it not for my other passion, fishing, and my proximity to the Pamlico Sound I might have a safe full of my favorite firarms instead of a boat and enough tackle to start a retail outlet.As for the expense to enjoyment and respect for the animal comments all I have to say is.. WTF?
Any game that I take can rest in the fact that it was taken with an accurate firearm that is loved and cared for. Why else would you own it? Doesn't that define Gun Nuts?I do have a "hoe handle" Rem 870 Super Mag that never apologizes to ducks, geese, or turkeys.
I like Yooper Jack's attitude about buying guns--essentially, to buy what you like, then enjoy owning and using the firearms. If they increase in value, wonderful. If they don't, well, you at least have enjoyed owning them. That's been my attitude in collecting guns over the last forty-plus years and I am very content with this notion.
Just went back to Cheap Rifles II to read Del's comment and noticed you said you had just sold a $3,000 gun for $500 Dave. Sounds like some of my investments. Let's see, if you had invested $3,000 in Microsoft twenty years ago... I'll tell you guys at work my links are always off topic. I like to stick music in here that way I can punch my name and come back and read while I listen.
I remember seeing one of the Model 99 rifles at a gun show way back in the 80's going for about $450. It was a nicely stocked, and engraved, model in .243. I just knew that rifle would appreciate in value, but alas;I did not buy it.Oh if I could only go back in time!!!
LowRecoil,I hear ya. The mention of 'appreciation of quarry' kinda stuck in my craw too. Maybe it was a mistake, or not. If elitist, so be it, blue bloods will be blue bloods. We know what happens to them at the revolution.I was just thinking of the reasons to buy such guns, and its for the sake of owning them. Anyone who thinks they can appreciate the killing a Russian boar with a 30gr. sxs, more than a spear, is an a elitist. And I have no reason to socialize with them.
Eyeball and Duck Creek Dick:Please read MY post more carefully. Nowhere have I condemned those who spend huge sums of money on firearms. Fact is, if I had huge sums of money to spend on firearms, I would do it in a flash. Nor am I criticizing Rob for owning expensive rifles.What chaps my arse is the notion put forth by Rob that the unwashed masses who DON'T own top-dollar weaponry are obviously cretins who wouldn't know a Purdey shotgun from a hoe handle and somehow are less able to appreciate the game they seek. Rob equates ample means with advanced enlightenment, and that's a bunch of hooey.
No, guns should not be bought as a hedge fund, you'll lose. Try mutual funds. Pay good money for a fine gun as an investment in pleasure and personnal satisfaction. Somebody will probably get the money and more back for it, but if you bought it for that reason I'll bet its your grandkids who will reap the benefits while you have reaped the pleasure.That $450 gun that turns into $1700 is like an insider tip in the stock market, it rarely happens.
Can't really decide which side of the fence to fall on this time... I think the Brits have captured the market on snobbery whilst hunting. Old side by sides and driven hunts are not my style but I truly believe I have as much if not more respect for the game than those blokes even if I am shooting an 1100. I work harder for my animals and would like to think I am more in tune with nature when I go afield. As far as the caliber debate I say stick with the tried and true unless it is a truly rare gun.Dave, if we had invested every dime we have ever spent on hunting, guns, and ammo in mutual funds instead all of us on this blog would be much wealthier. I know I would not be happier. Guns are not an investment, don't fool yourself but you can get your money back and a little more most times and use them. That is the key. If you can take a rifle out and truly enjoy it you are creating a happy environment for yourself at no cost. Buy all you can get your greasy paws on...
Low Recoil;If you are going to drop serious coin on a top end rifle, it should be good to know that should you have to sell it someday, it will have held or increased its value. If you'd bought a custom Al Biesen .270 or .30-06 back in 1978, kept it clean, and sold it today, you would discover that you not only had you been shooting it for free for thirty years, the gun had been paying YOU to shoot it! Not a totally bad thing, and the point of this blog.I didn't know that the really good synthetic rifles (the Jarretts, ULAs, Dakotas, Remington Custom Shop jobs, etc.) did NOT hold their values, however. It would seem to me that handwork is handwork, whether spent truing an action and lapping a barrel or carving and finishing a stock. But you can't fight supply and demand, I guess.Bloggers; what is the MOST you would spend, therefore, on a synthetic rifle, and feel you were getting your money out of it in terms of actual hunting (not varminting) use? Then, what is the LEAST, same rules? My guns are all pretty old, and I need something left-handed anyway in a deer caliber.
Yooper, I agree with your Milton Friedman comment. Didn't someone else say, "have what you want, and want what you have"?Parting with a gun is tough for me...I'd sooner give it away; I guess my investment strategy is for enjoyment for myself and then my kids, or a very good friend.I was issued 2 M40A's as a shooter and still have them both. On one occasion I'd like to forget but never will, I had to leave one of them behind. A long story short, my squad recovered the gun and re-presented it to me with a custom tiger maple Monte Carlo stock that fits me like my skin. I have no interest in even knowing what the gun is worth monetarily but it's priceless to me, particularly due to the amazing reaquaintance I got with it. My other shoots as well but it has that wonderful MacMillan stock (can you say resonance?).I built a custom .224 on necked down .30 Remington and .303 British brass a number of years ago on a Winchester short wall. It has an Unertl 10x tripod scope and I use this for groundhogs. It has also a nice tiger maple stock, and while it's a wild cat one off, I love the value it holds for me. Great discussion Dave/guys.Thanks.
Jim, forgot to say these are not old guns they are models of very old guns. Probably better than the originals.
I've never looked at a firearm purchase as an "investment," though I own a few that cost more than my first car. And I never bought one in a hurry. I bought the guns I have because, for whatever reason, I liked them all. Maybe it was the feel. Maybe the look. Maybe the design and construction. But with each there is an aesthetic "something" that connected me and the firearm. Maybe someday I'll own a really fine custom-made rifle with an ornate stock and lots of fancy engraving, and maybe not, but I'll never begrudge anyone for owning such a piece, or look down upon the firearms I own. I sure like looking at all of them.
Low Recoil:You might read Rob's post a little more carefully. You assume that he is a wealthy gun snob, when it could very well be that he worked a second job and ate ramen noodles for the last six months just to afford that Mod. 12 28 gauge. One doesn't have to be rich (though it sure as hell helps) to have a refined taste in nice firearms. I have a beautiful Mannlicher Schoenauer carbine, a classic AE grade Fox and a 1946 Luscombe airplane in the hanger. I drive an 11-year old truck and live in a house I bought for $25,000 in 1989. After busting my tail working on a Bureau of Reclamation drill crew, I then made huge sums of money working retail sales for 12 years. Sound snobby to you? Can you understand Rob in a little different light now? All a matter of priorities,eh?Duck Creek Dick
Jim in MOThe Sharps is a 12 pound falling block single shot in 45-70. The gun in Quigly was a Shiloh Sharps. My gun is slightly different from the movie gun which had plain wood. That movie made demand go way up and I had to wait 5 years for mine.The Flintlock I mentioned is a muzzleloading longrifle with a long graceful barrel. It tapers down to 4" from the muzzle then flairs slightly out to the end. It really appeals to the eye, is well balanced and only weighs 6.5 pounds. Both gunstocks are loaded with figure.The Sharps has American Black walnut-looks like stump wood the other is curly maple with a dark stain that really brings out the grain in the wood. Heck I'll Email you a pic so you can see for yourself.
Blue steel and walnut will always capture my heart. You forgot to mention Dave, that considering who the rifle/shotgun belonged to can drive the price up. Having one of Uncle Bob's shotguns makes it more valuable to some of the shotgun looneys I know.
Jim,If you get the right amount of primer in the pan there is no real delay firing flintlocks, I always used FFF for main charge and primer, just sprinkle enough to barely cover the flash pan and it is dang near instant ignition as long a your flint makes a good spark. I used natural flint for practice and German Cut Flints for hunting, whooo boy do those things ever give a good shower of sparks when fresh!I have got to get another flintlock one of these days, I miss it!
And let's not forget what current laws can do to gun values, when the "assault" weapon bill went into effect I saw the value of my stamped out by the billions AK go from $100 to somewhere in the $500 to $750 range overnight. And the $75 SKS went over $300, at least locally. I recently bought a couple of handguns and was shocked to see the price jump over 10 years time, used 1911A1, almost $500, used to be 150-200 used. And a 44 Mag SS Revolver, also $500 range, last one I bought was a used 10" barreled Dan Wesson I bought about 15 years ago for $179.Anyone got a time machine?
Glad to see somebody say something nice about Jackson's Custonm Guns, althought it's in Turnertown, not Turner Town. It's out of business because Doug Jackson, the second generation passed away several years ago. He was my gunsmith and friend for many years, and I am glad to see him remembered. Aside from being a fine craftsman, he was an all-around fine guy. Much missed among shooters in our area.
I lost a little money on only one firearm, a 6.5 Sweedish Mouser, because I ruined the stock and had to build another. However, all the guns I have owned and traded or sold have made a little money.There are some I own now that have appreciated considerably, that are not for sale at any price. Most that fall into that catagory were plain jane guns at purchase, and were discontinued. An example; Ruger Blackhawk flat top .357, $50 in '64(used,as new). Purchased because a hound driven bear tried to clinb into my boat with me. Last month was offered $2200 for it,but I didn't sell. An old LC Smith 12ga.sxs that I can shoot very accurately, payed $75 worth $1500. A mod.94 Win. 30/30 made in 1953,with the box it was shipped from the factory in, still looks like new, though I have shot it many many times, payed $35, turned down $750, still have it, will when I die.I own a Rem. custom shop 700, with the most beautiful wood stock I have ever seen on a factory rifle, not for sale at any price, consistantly shoots under moa. Am I gloating? No, but What I am saying is, as stated above, this is what I wanted, this is what I enjoy, I never disfurnished my family for any purchase of gun, or gun related object, and my safe and loading room are stuffed full.
Milton Friedman, the late economist, was once asked what the best investments were. He said "Buy things that you enjoy. If the go up in value, you get monetary return. If they don't appreciate, you still enjoyed owning it. Can you think of a better description of a nice gun?YooperJack
Dave how much do you reckon a 303. british from old war times is worth in good condition.
Rob: You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're just joshing. You can't seriously believe that appreciating a certain grade of firearm equates to a higher plane of appreciation for the game to be shot with that firearm.If you truly do believe that, then you are merely one of an ever-expanding group of "sportsmen" with the means to purchase high-end equipment - firearms and other things - who feel the need to sit around and congratulate each other on their "refined" tastes and their greater appreciation of the finer things. I guess that somehow this self-aggrandizement goes a long way toward justifying the added expense of shooting, say, a Purdey rather than the pedestrian 870.Please understand that I am not in any way suggesting that custom firearms, or highly-engraved firearms, or collectible firearms, or any type of firearms are somehow elitist. Shoot, I wouldn't mind a closet full of classics. I am merely pointing out that a greater balance in the checking account does not equate to a greater appreciation of the craft and art that goes into producing a first-rate firearm or of the value of a game animal.Fact is, a vast number of hunters can be brought almost to tears by gazing upon the work of true master gunmakers. The only problem is that many of those same hunters, after that gazing, then go home to the reality of mortgage payments, doctor bills, college tuition, etc. A $10,000 gun is not an option for them, but don't delude yourself into thinking that they don't appreciate it.Get over yourself, sir.
Rob, et al,I do not think Dave missed the boat in his post. (Nor did you, necessarily in your comments) He clearly, in my mind, deliniated between wood stocked long guns and long guns not stocked in wood by saying that the non-stocked wood guns were 'working guns' and would not hold/increase in value like some wood stocked guns. I think there have been just as many (or a heck of a lot more) wood stocked guns not worth half their original price, regardless of vintage, as there are non wood stocked guns today. I am fortunate to have a few of both. I have, for example, a Rem .416 in kevlar from the Rem custom gun shop. which is as plain jane as they come, but, for a quality working gun for a working guide on dangerous game, it is one of my favorites. Perfect balance, performance and confidence go with that rifle when needed in a tight situation. I also have a couple of nicely stocked pre/64 mod 70 Win of .375 and .300 which. unfortunately, I do not tend to take into the field as I have rifles with composit (not plastic) stocks that are preferrable in the conditions in which I take them.dickgun
Some custom guns are real eye catchers and appreciate in value. Some custom guns, well, they're just high priced tent stakes.I've been over this before and I say it again, "Be very careful when selecting the caliber for a custom rifle!" Found a mind boggling custom on a used gun shelf in Dallas. Wood and metal? Superb! Caliber? It was a .333 G&H Magnum! Where ya gonna find ammo?! Had it been in .270 Win, .30-'06 Spgfl, even .338 Win Mag or .243 Win, I might have considered the purchase.Maker has a lot to do with the retained value of a custom arm. Built by Joe Bob's Real Good Guns. Who knows. Built by Griffin and Howe of New York!? Snatch it up at a reasonable price!Jackson Custom Guns in Turner Town, Texas (yeah, yeah, Melissa Lambert's home town, and yes, it's really there!) put out some very fine custom guns, but they're no longer in business. One of their arms should be worth a small fortune!Decent firearms in decent calibers will only appreciate in value! Period!Bubba
Del,I always get confused when talking about older rifles. Since I've never owned one.So the Sharps is a enclosed bullet (45-70) but yours others are blackpowder? Never shot muzzeloader but shot flint. That would take some getting used to with the delay, but I did ok.
rob,Sorry that was me.Been having comp problems lately.
rob,I new what you were talking about on your first post. If I could afford it, damn right I'd own those fine guns and never feel a need to explain to anyone.The word 'afford' trips some men up. Money in the bank doesn't mean you can afford it, theres other thing in life.
The Flinter is a Lancaster style with Tiger striped maple full stock and engraved brass patchbox. The barrel is a Getz 39" swamped with Siler lock. Natty Bumpo would have loved it. It was $1300 in 1991 I expect it is worth more today.
Just got back from the range. Shot my 2 most favorite guns. Shiloh Sharps 45-70 with Montana Vintage Arms vernier tang sights and my Bingham Flintlock long rifle. They are a joy to hold and shoot. Both have beautiful wood and are very accurate. Neither will ever be for sale in my lifetime.
Let me change that previous post a little - Not necessarily boorish, but boring. Anyone can trumpet the 870 or 110 or 700 - These are good guns, fun to shoot and will put meat on the table.But to appreciate a custom gun or a rare bird enough to buy one, or have interests in them, shows a different level of appreciation for the sport (and art) of firearms, not to mention your quarry.It doesn't make you a snob (although with some people it does), mostly it shows a refined interest in your passion. Mario Andretti wouldn't be satisfied looking at Ford Taurus', just as Petzal has probably grown weary of looking at (and appreciating) plastic stocked, Wal-mart production guns.
Being lucky enough to posess a Model 12 in 28 gauge - Skeet barrel, good wood, checkered and in mint condition - I know of hens teeth.Good guns - Classics or those built by a good custom maker - Goens, Jaeger, Fischer - Will not lose you money.Those that whine about expensive tastes are boorish, not opinion expressors.
Investing in Rifles!?How about just investing in firearms? ...guns?I have a few low (?) grade firearms in my closet. I don't have any spectacular collecter items in there either!Back in the late 70's and early 80's, I worked in a gun shop. I found out then that ANY decent, above average firearm was a good investment.I have a problem with the "investment" side of the picture because once I purchase one, I find it very difficult to sell it! But that's just me!We had a gentleman that would come in the store any time we got a shipment of arms. I can't think of how many times he purchased sets (?) of guns because of subsequent serial numbers! One gent bought a Ruger M77 Roundtop because the caliber was NOT catalogued! Two barrel sets of M12 Win shotguns. Want to find a really pricey collector's item? Look up a M12 Win in 28 ga.! They are out there, but be ready! I know, I know! I'm talking about antique type arms. But that's not all! A Raven .25 ACP isn't even a good trot line weight, but drag out a Browning in .25 ACP and watch real gun nuts slobber!I have yet to buy a firearm that hasn't appreciated in value, except for maybe my M77/22 in s/s. But I don't care, it ain't for sale anyway!Guns! Good investment!Cars! Bad investment!Bubba
Dave,as a post script to my earlier post, I hope one day to be able to afford more fancy weapons and I certainly don't begrudge anyone who owns them, I admire the beauty as much as anyone, and I dearly love to out-shoot those 5-6 figure pieces of art with my lil' stoeger...
Dave,on your advice, I purchased a Tikka T-3 .270 as my first(and only)rifle . I wanted to get it in stainless/plastic thinking in terms of maintenance, durability and functionality, but when I went to purchase the rifle Beretta was completely out of stock in anything but the hunter series in blue steel and hardwood. So with a pressing deadline(my first deer hunt)I took the wood stocked model...got my first deer and I am completely enamored with my wood stocked gun, I think that it is the most beautiful gun in the world, like the saying goes..."you always remember your first" Now I don't presuppose any long term investment value to this gun, but I don't really care, what is important to me is that everytime my eyes fall upon my Tikka...I smile.
Precious metals, land and stocks are investments.Guns and cars tend to be considered depreciating assets (for lack of a better term). You kind of figure you will lose your rump on most of them. Sure, there are a few that will actually appreciate in value, but very, very few.Having said that, to each their own. This is America, and a person can spend their money on anything they wish.But Dave, when a person disagrees with your choice of spending habits it doesn't make them a whiner, it just means they disagree and/or think you are a bit foolish (but that's their right too).Enjoy your weekend.Jim
Dear Bubba and Milton Burton, I saw your post about Doug Jackson and feel very fortunate to have had him as my father. He was a great man and is missed greatly by me and my family. It is so nice to see he was respected and thought of in this way. I am glad he touched your lives as well. He has been gone for 13 years and to read something about him on the internet is so surreal.
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