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Meditations on the Whitetail Deer

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November 19, 2007

Meditations on the Whitetail Deer

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

BeaugarrettbwWhat follows was meditated in a tower blind in northern Maine this past week. It was interspersed by reflections on Ms. Beau Garrett, a particularly wonderful-looking young actress who appears in a dopey movie called Turistas.

****

I saw on the Discovery Channel a few weeks ago that tele-transportation, as practiced by the Starship Enterprise, is not possible. Well, it may not be for humans, but whitetails do it all the time. You can stare at a spot where there are no deer, and in less time than it takes to blink your eyes a deer will materialize. Obviously, their molecules are disassembled, projected elsewhere, and reassembled by some force that is denied to us.

****

Like the Shadow, the old radio thriller character, whitetails have the power to cloud men's minds. One of the hunters in camp, a 70-year-old who has taken a great many big deer and is a fine shot, was out with a Remington pump gun when a mildly retarded but very big buck strolled into sight not 40 yards away. Since this gentleman was in a truck and his rifle had to be kept unloaded, he unassed the truck, shoved a round into the chamber, and slowly, softly, so as not to spook the deer, ran the fore-end forward.

Now if you know from Remington pumps, you're aware that they are to be racked back and forth with great violence or else they don't work, and that's what happened. He pulled the trigger and…nothing. And then, despite the fact that he knew it was the wrong way to work the rifle, he did the same thing twice more. Finally, he slammed the action shut--and missed. The next day, using his old familiar .270 Model 700, he took a much more difficult shot at a nice buck and killed it deader than world peace.

There are animals that are bigger than the whitetail, more exotic, more impressive on the wall, and better to eat, but for some reason whitetails are able to make grown men addled, and I think this is why we love to hunt them so much.

Comments (112)

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

Hey Dr. Ralph,Guess what the first 3 guns I bought were.3 hints: Marlin, Mossberg, Remington.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

Yeah, O'Connor was a big fan of the 30-06 too. In fact he said if those fast 150 grain bullets had been available when he was forming his opinions he might have favored it... but all he could find were the 180's and they just didn't perform like the .270 bullets. Didn't open up fast enough and didn't shoot flat enough he claims. But he did say if a man could only own three guns he could hunt any animal in the world. A .22, a 12 ga., and a 30-06! I love Cactus Jack because we're both opinionated assholes...

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

I weighed l80 lbs prior to my cancer, now at l28. A 06 is the max I can handle. When I hunt out west,I either hunting Lopes with the 25-06 or Mulies/Elk at same time and therfore need the 06 in l80 gr Scricco's to handle the Elk.Until Remigton stopped making the extended range l68 gr that was what I use all the time. When the 700 CDL came out, I bought the first one my Dealer got and tried many brands of ammo.The Rem Scricco put 3 shots at 200 yds that a l/2 dollar will cover, so thats my choice now. I realize a l80 gr is a lot for w-tails, but with only 3-4" drop at 345 yds why change? and a 800 lb Bull may show up and the 25-06 at ll7 grs not enought for me. Rather be over gunned than under-gunned. I want that animal to fall. O well, we all got our choices for what we can shoot better. Never owned a 270,figure the 25-06 is as good or the 06 at l50 gr. better. Got my doubts that O'Conner used the 270 as his only hunting rifle, kinda figure he slipped in a 06 now and then, but his articles on 270's was good reading provding you had a 270

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

I would love to have a pre-64 Winchester M70 in .300 H&H! Not because it is the most efficient, fastest, flattest shooting, or any other reason except it is a classic big game caliber. Yeah, I know it is not superior to a good '06 load or a .300 Win Mag, but it IS a classic.Who cares if it is a little heavier due to the long action and longer barrel? Get off the couch, exercise those flabby muscles, and lose 10 pounds1 Then you will feel better carrying that heavy old rifle!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

I bet more game been killed with Rems, Core-lokt than all other ammo combined. Hand loading is ok,providing you spend a ton on rquiptment and the stuff you need to reload. A friend gave me 3 boxes of lst time reloades, non will eject after I fire them.So from now on will just buy factory ammo as it's come a long way in past 10 yrs. It takes quality ammo to kill but shot placement is the secret, but you gotta pratice a lot to achive accuracy. I got a buddy who hunts w-tails with a 22 mag. All his shots are head shots,between the eye and ear, and his freezer is already full this year. I told him now he needs to try the 22 mag on a Texas shot??????. Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

I've shot an old Winchester 70 in .300 H&H Magnum before and everyone was taking turns shooting each others guns. Everyone said my old Rem 30-06 was the hardest kicking gun there but it had a steel butt plate. We were all surprised how little the .300 H&H kicked. It certainly wouldn't be bad in a Ruger No. 1 because we all know they weigh something like 20 pounds...

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackI'm a dyed-in-the-wool .270 Win, Jack O'Connor lover! The only bore in my closet larger than .277 is shotgun, black powder and one hand-me-down .30-30 Win I got from my Grampa!If it can't be killed with a .270 Win, I just won't hunt it!If I can't get within 250 yards of it, I just won't shoot!I have one, and only ONE, magnum itch that will probably never be scratched. I would love to have a .300 H&H Mag in a heavy bbl No. 1 Ruger! Why a .300 H&H? It's old, and, if you'll look through a reloading manual, it will do what the .300 Win and .300 Wby will with less powder! The .300 H&H may not be able to achieve the top end the others can, but I don't go there anyway because it isn't necessary! (It's a handloader thing!)My biggest delimma is: Since it's almost a straight wall case, how is the recoil? I'd really hate to spend that much money on a "Custom" rifle, and then not be able to shoot it "comfortably".Hey Clay C., had much experience with Holland's Super .30?Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Thanks Bubba:I guess I never really considered the cost of reloading. Frankly, I don't know if I would shoot enough to save money on reloading. My observation was that a fellow (Clay Cooper) goes out and shoots massive animals with rather small rifles. Given; he's an expert rifleman but assume for a minute that someone else on that same level of marksmanship, shot just as much but used only ammo purchased from WallyWorld. My theory is that the storebought would perform at a somewhat lower level, both for hunting and target shooting.I believe your in the 30-06 camp. Clay leans toward the 25-06 with a reservation (buyem both). The handloading is something that I've never considered in 57 years.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackHere's a bit of a delimma for you.For your shooting buck (dollar), you will find that reloaders probably spend the same money, if not more that those that shoot factory ammo! BUT, you get a whole lot more bang for the buck! The most expensive part of reloading is the case, then the bullet. One pound of powder is 7000 grains. My .270 absolutely loves 46.5 grains of IMR 4895 and a Sierra 130 gr BTSP.How many loads can I get from one pound of powder? At least 150!I don't think reloaders do "it" any cheaper, they just get a whole lot more bang for their "collective" buck! (dollar or deer)Bubba

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Thanks, Clay.I might be a slow learner but I do try. :)

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Yooper JBuy both the Sako's and you'll never be under-gunned!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Dave in St PeteCongratulations Sir, you’re getting my point! Just imagine if you reload your own ammo what you can do

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay Cooper:I'm not sucked into any fad. I'm just shopping for a left handed bolt. If there are 7 Rugers, there are 6 7MM & 300 Win Mags. If there are 12 Remingtons, at least 10 will be 7MM Mag or 300 mag. I found a SAKO 30-06 and a SAKO 25-06. I'm pondering between the two right now. Actually my biggest challenge right now is finding my beloved of 35 years a Christmas present. Boy she's hard to shop for.No I haven't read that story. I would like to though. It sounds like something I'd like.Thanks Again

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay,For a grin I ran some calibers / bullets on the Remington Shoot! program to compare.I optimized them for a 3 inch kill zone.Here are the numbers;30-06 125 grain PSP, point blank range 222 yards. remaining FPS 2387, remaining energy 1581 ft/lbs.270 130 grain PSP, point blank range 222 yards. remaining FPS 2457, remaining energy 1746 ft/lbs.25-06 120 grain PSP, point blank range 217 yards. remaining FPS 2438, remaining energy 1584 ft/lbs.Those sound like identicle triplets!!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackP.S.Please don't get sucked into the fad crowd!Have you ever read the story about the old hunter on the mountain with an old Remington Model 721 30-06?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Magnums are ok if you can handle the recoil and shoot accurately. Besides, I know too many hunters that if they had a 30-06 in Alaska rather than that big shoulder dislocating, snot nockerouter, ear splitting magnum rifle, they would have something on the wall to show rather empty pockets! I can handle a 338 Win Mag on shots at long range. This doesn’t make everyone else to jump on the band wagon and do the same. Trust me Sir on this one and ask yourself this question. Do I really need that big magnum or can the tried and proven 06 family do it and do it better for me? I’ve been there and done the big magnum game YooperJack and I find myself going back to the 06 family! Next year I’m hoping to be Elk hunting and my 338 Win Mag is coming out of mothballs. Yes, if I didn’t have the 338 I wouldn’t give using my 30-06 a second thought.The bottom line is this. What is the largest cartridge you can handle accurately and the maximum range of your shooting ability that is proper for the terrain and game?

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

ClayI think you might have a lot of folks reading whatever you write.Whatever website I go to, there are probably 7 or 8 magnums for every 25-06 or 30-06 that is available for that particular make and model.Thanks Again!YooperJack

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackWhat you say, Sad thing is he probably thought it was easy, not knowing how much preparation and experience that you put into the hunt.That s so true now days and what our Fathers or Grandfathers didn’t pass down to us.By the way on if you decide to reload? The 30-06 has some super neat loads you can cook up! For example, if you live in open country like cross canyon shots over 200 yards are the norm, Hornady’s 130 grain soft point with 54 grains of IMR4064 is absolutely ideal. You can thump it out a 24 inch barrel in a 30-06 around 3300 fps making a super great load for coyotes and monster mule deer with less recoil than a 150 grain. This is a dirty little secret I know that the ammo makers don’t want you to know! Ya Ya I know, I love my 25-06 over my 30-06 on deer but when it gets down to the nitty gritty on getting a fellow shooter on line the right way, I got to do and say what is right so I know for a fact their hunt is a successful hunt and what I’ve done for them is the best what anyone can do, besides I’m putting my reputation on it and for those that truly know me, they do know it’s good as gold and you can take it to the bank! By the way Honady makes a 190 grain soft point boat tail I load it at 2830 making it a superior load over the 7mm Rem Mag 175 grain bullet even at 1000 yards! Knowing how to load and tweak and peak a load takes allot of learning.If anyone says to load a bullet just deep enough to touch the lands of the rifling to get better accuracy is full of BS! If this is to be true, Weatherby rifles and my 03-A3 would be the most inaccurate rifle on the planet. This is one of the best way to blow you gun up!!!Now if you decide to go the 25-06 route, I got some loads that will really make the magnum shooters take notice! That Hornady 117 grain SST my 8 year old Grandson really made an impression on everyone from the field to the check in station to the game processing shop. Every young kid was shooting 223 to 243 and was totally blown away on the 25-06 when Alex is only about 5 inches taller than the rifle. After Alex’s deer hunt with the 25-06, I am totally convinced that the 25-06 is the #1 best choice from youth to women to those that are recoil sensitive to extreme shooters!

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay:Thanks again for more info. Maybe I'll have to take up reloading for a hobby.Still haven't decided between 30-06 and 25-06. I can do either.Also, hats off to you for taking the lad hunting. I'm sure you made that into the trip of a lifetime. Sad thing is he probably thought it was easy, not knowing how much preparation and experience that you put into the hunt.Thanks Again.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

PS: My shooting ability needs no improvement to "step into a .25-06."

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Good on you, Clay! Sponsoring that kid is a great thing to do.I too am a closet quarter bore fan. My two .257 Roberts rifles are my favorite deer rifles, although I don't use them much on combination deer and elk hunts because I think they are marginal for elk. I usually take two elk rifles when I hunt out of town. A .35 Whelen (just because) and a .30-06. I haven't taken my .257 R to Colorado just to keep from lugging three rifles. One of them is going this year primed with some 100 grain Barnes TSX handloads! The next bargain I find on a .25-06 will be added to my battery.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterI’m a sponsor for a young gentleman I nicknamed Rocky from the Dominican Republic for his US citizenship. Two weekends ago I took him out to Jacks place, about 100 plus acres of land for his first deer hunt. He was using my 30-06 700ADL 22 inch barrel (cough, gag!) using Hornady 150 grain SST loaded just over 3050 fps and dropped a nice 5 point buck with one shot. He has shot both my 25-06 and the 30-06 now and asked what should be his next rifle? He wants to go Elk hunting with me next year so the obvious answer is the 30-06! WAH depending on the terrain you’re hunting makes choosing the right cartridge a challenge of its own. If I was to own one rifle and one rifle only, it would be the 30-06!The bottom line from Ol’Sarge is this, when choosing the best cartridge the ultimate choice is the 30-06! I’ve hunted every environment a hunter can be from swamps to New Mexico to Alaska to name a few and the 30-06 for having only one rifle is the best choice. Later you can step into buying a 25-06 once you’ve learned the ropes of caliber usage on game vs terrain and your shooting ability.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackSo you really want to buy a bolt action deer rifle but boy there's lots I don't know?Brother………THAT’S NO JOKE!The best way to answer your question is like this.Yes I do all my reloading for all my rifles and handguns. It’s the only way I can afford to shoot and get the trigger time to keep my shooting skills in shape.Buying your ammo at WallyWorld is like buying chicken from KFC. Yes its good tasting but it’s not near as good as on the back porch BBQ!When I reload, I can tweak and peak a load for a specific rifle for a hunt to get the best performance and load bullets that are too expensive and/or not on the shelves at the sporting goods store. Besides, it cuts the cost of ammo dramatically and if you shoot as much as I do, it pays for the equipment fast!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

ClayI think you are on to something.I took this year's buck out of a honey hole that three guys had hunted hard (?) the past four days. Something about hunting the wind, being quiet, staying off the skyline, and watching the other critters and their reactions to the goings on around them, etc....You are right about not needing a moose load for deer. However, most of the places where I hunt I am not at the top ofthe food chain without a .30 caliber or greater equalizer. If the biggest things around with claws and fangs are bobcats and coyotes, then a .25-06 is about right.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay:Something just hit me reading your post. Do you make your own ammo? If so, could you be getting much better performance from a certain caliber (25-06) than I could buying my ammo at WallyWorld?This concept is really scary. I really want to buy a bolt action deer rifle but boy there's lots I don't know.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

You guys crack me up, no joke! Why in the world do you need a Moose load on a white tail or mule deer?Man, if you can’t bring the brown down, go back to town!25-06 Hornady 117 SST @3248 fps ROCKS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Yesterday evening a thick cloud bank rolled into the top off the ridges so I thought I try an old hunting place. Within 100 yards to the top of this mammoth step ridge on an old cat trail, I noticed a big doe playing pick a boo with me. As I got 50 yards of here she laid flat on the ground and disappeared. When I just got passed her, her head popped up, eyes and ears erected like radar thinking I didn’t see her watching me go by. I wonder how many times I’ve been on those ridges just blowing up those ridges on my 4x4 ATV Suzuki 500 and just crused by ol’thrasher?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Get some Federal 180 grain Cast Core .357's. I doubt there is anything in Montana that it won't kill at close range. I shot through 8 inches of treated fir boards with a S&W Mod 19 4" at 15 feet. Then had to dig it out of the stump backstop. Barely deformed the bullet.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

I use a 700 30-06 and a 700 25-06.Both firearms have their place in hunting.Last year I proved myself wrong about a 06 being a extreme long range rifle, but only 3-4" drop at 345 yds with a 200 yd zero. My hunting guns out west are all zeroed for 200 yds. Then I killed a Lope at 325 yds with the 25-06 using Ballastic tips. I use thr Scricco l80 grs in the 30-06. I killed a nice buck here last week at 260 yds, and bullet went all way thru both front shoulders, tore out the lungs, that deer jumped a 6 ft ft wire fence, then ran about 70 yds before he fell over. I can;t understand how he did such with 2 broken front legs. But to say the 06 is not a long range firearm and will not take any game in North Amercia is stupid. It will handle anything other than maybe a Charged up mean old Sow Griz, if was hunting them, would surely want a back up hunter with a 375 H&H or larger. But with correct ammo, the 06 and 25-06 are all the gun you need anywhere.I plan to use the 25-06 tomorrow and remainder of season, as don;t want the bullet to go allway thru the game, just wnat to tear his boiler system up. As I say, was proven wrong on both Ammo, firearm and animal last week, in the fact a deer jumped a 6 ft fence,with 2 broken shoulders and lung gone, but still runs 70 yds. As a Rule my game falls in its tracts, but this deer was shot 2=3" too high to get heart. My fault at 260 yds in low light. Buy good provem Ammo and you get resuls if you do your part. Was proud of myself at 72, to be able to even hunt, but at that distance, unbeleaveable in my book. But we got the heads to prove th fact. Hey you guys know anything about a handgun A. UBERTI, imported by Benelli from Italy? If so, whats your thoughts on quality and looks in general. I want a new side arm for the Rockies. My 357's not enough in my book.Or, maybe just another excuse to buy another firearm.I figure at my age, what the heck, buy all you can afford and just hunt/ buy more guns. My trip next year to the Rockies will be my last, as the 3 week trip just takes its toll on me. Flying 2500 miles to Idaho Border, is hard work holding up that huge plane.But want l last Elk, Lope,Mulie. Got W-tails larger here. But killed many out in MT. W-tails in MT a dime a dozen, but finding a large mass 8 or above is tough. Got a nice 8 last 2 yrs,m and one here, now want a huge Monster in 8 or above with a 24+ s[pread in Mulie or w-tail. But the Mulies stay high with Elk till snow moves tthem down to bottoms after snow get 10 ft deep at 10-12K feet.Got my first Mulie on on opening day l hr after light at 8K feet but was bitter cold, near 0. Only Mulie I saw shotable to me for 2 more weeks. But some years thats the way animals move around. OK, shoot straight and often,

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

mr.bYou've got a lot of willpower. I probably couldn't do that on my first buck. Did you get one yet? Please keep us informed, one way or the other. My hat will be off to you either way!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Thought you had escaped, huh?I find it amusing and entertaining that I can get both pictures of Ms. Garrett on my computer screen simultaneously due to their placement on the page.Was that intended Mr. D. Petzal?Think you're cute, huh?!Well, just turn a bored red neck loose with a loaded computer and now you know what happens!Bubba

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I showed up in S. Texas with a 25-06 because my Dad was a wildcatter in the 60's when the 25-06 was getting popular. He hunter Mule deer and Whitetails with his and claimed that was all you needed. Several years of one shot kills at 400+ yards were very convincing. When he offered to build me a gun for my H.S. Graduation I of course wanted one. I used it for everthing but all I hunted were WT in central Texas. S Texas Opened My eyes. I graduated? to a 7MM Rem Mag w/Brake because I was afraid of the recoil I had heard from all the Gun Gurus of the day. A few years later I went to S texas again but this time I hunted Nilgai. Killed one with the 7 mag and my handloaded 175gr TBBC but did so with a neck shot and realized that the 375 H&H my buddy used was much better for much bigger game. This opened my eyes to exotics and dreams of Africa, so I bought a 375 and learned to shoot it (no Muzzel Brake). After that I threw away the MB on the 7 mag. Elk Hunting in the Rockies lead to the 300 Win Mag which is my go to gun in S Texas. If I'm going to hunt in the Texas Hill Country I use a 7-08. I'm supposed to be leaving for Tanzania next Oct to hunt Cape Buffalo so now I have a 458 win mag. It's actually been fun to shoot. The new recoil pads R-3 and Kick Ez make a HUGE difference from the hard rubber POS that showed up on the Ruger.Happy Thanksgiving.Good Huntin'Use Enough Gun.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

You go mr.bJust this year, I blatted two bucks into gun range. Neither would have been my first, if I could have gotten a shot, but I had never used a doe blat until then. They are both still out there, waiting for me. The thrill of having them respond? Immeasurable!!BubbaP.S. neither was a monster, but both were respectable!

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from mr.b wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

To no one in particular: I'm near 53, and finally had all the elements fall into place. I was lucky enough to grunt call a doe and fork-horn buck to within 25 ft. of me. What a sight, and what a rush! Had the fork in my sights, and passed. Never bagged a deer yet, and I'm holding out for a bigger boy to tag as my first. But the thrill of that morning will stick with me for awhile........thanks for listening.......

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

ClayIt was never intended to be a joke. I compare our ecosystem knowledge to knowledge of space. Its not that we don't try. I think we're just overwhelmed. we have had very inteligent people working on forestry and wildlife challenges for around 100 years. Every time something new is tried, the term "Unforeseen Consequences" seems to arise. I hate to get religon but I honestly believe that the Good Lord put us on this earth to be masters of this domain. But I also believe that we have to work very hard to accomplish this. While we need some areas to be free from hunting and some to be designated wilderness. This gives us control areas to compare with areas that are actively managed. But for us to believe that we can control wildlife populations by simply enacting laws, that's just pure liberal arrogance.Hope the season is going well for you. I still really value your insight into the 25-06 and hope to be shooting one by next season.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Yooperjackhow much we don't know about our ecosystem?Thats no joke!

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey Everyone!HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!YooperJack

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from lastearlofshaw wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Geez, Dave: If I had to keep my rifle un-loaded in my pickup, I'd never have time to get a round off at any of my Ozark neighbors...

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from Flatwater wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

That's what I love about this post-the little tangents we shoot off on. I've seen disappearing and reappearing deer (walked within 10 feet of one deer, three times, before he finally jumped up and scared the heck out of me. I missed), jumped on and off the "short-fat-ultra-makeyoureyesbleed-poopinyourpants-mag" bandwagon (now it's an '06 with 150gr. handloads and a Model 1900, 2-1/2" chamber 12 ga.), and know what it's like to be a little sore in the morning (six weeks of traction w/shattered elbow @ 3-yrs old-wrecked my bicycle. Titanium plate, 9 screws, 5 pins, 200 stitches, 14 staples @ 29, six months ago-wrecked my Harley. Hmm, a pattern...plus several broken arms, nose, both feet, etc.)

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey Clay we make more mistakes every day. In 1986, the Safari Club financed the trapping and relocation of I believe 50 moose from Canada into Michigan's Upper Peninsula. The goal was to have a population of about 1,000 animals by year 2000 and a limited hunting season. For many reasons that no one could have predicted in advance, this year we have between 400 and 450. I believe that the count is low, but not that low. The animals have dispersed over a much larger area than was thought in 1986. I believe that the effort was well worth the cost, in spite of the low population.Vince Lombardi once said "winning isn't everything but trying to win is". The Safari Club tried.I've been a practicing forester now for over thirty years and I'm amazed at how much we don't know about our ecosystem. Man is very insignificant compared to the good lord above!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperjackHow so true and we look back and say,O’GOD!WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!Even today this tragedy has been swept under the carpet and I’m still surprised but then again I’m not that David Petzal hasn’t picked up on this. I suppose it isn’t proper “PC” for Field and Stream to do this kind of story….

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Met a fella many years ago that used to say, "The only reason they build magnum shotguns is so the Cajuns in south Louisiana can hear noise and feel pain when they pull the trigger!"I read an article once that stated the only cartridge that "actually" needed the belted case was the .300 H&H, with little shoulder, they had to have a point from which to determine head space! Since that article was printed, maybe some other cartridges out there need belted cases.Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Thanks Clay! That pretty much parallels the Yellowstone Case Study. One could draw a conclusion that TR was pretyy dumb with respect to wildlife management but a lot wasn't known about this science back then. At least he tried! I'm surw he's turning over in his grave right now, seeing some of the results. He was willing to bring conservation of natural resources to the forefront in America.

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Bubba; I really did'nt missunderstand what you wrote, but was pulling your leg, I hope it wasn't the one that's the worst messed up.The disappearing,and appearing,of deer is not confined to wt,but also to mulies and especially to black tailed deer. I have listened very carefully for one to scream into his wrist watch"beam me up, Scotty",but so far haven't been able to verify.Will keep you posted.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperJackHere is the link to the info on Kaibab. It’s in several parts/links and you must read all of it without skipping any info.http://depts.alverno.edu/nsmt/youngcc/research/kaibab/story1.htmlI can’t believe that David Petzal never picked up on this, I got the wrong job!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I'll do a litle backround on this and get back with you.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperJackThey closed hunting on the Kaibab Plateau and the result was devastating! They slowly reopened it over the years and carefully rebuilt the ecosystem. Back 1993 you could still see the browse line in some areas.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Ed J, hell if using as much gun you can handle, I'd be out with my 338 also!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Dennis220gr nosler partion loaded into a .300 WInMAg at about 275-300 yards? Yes I do and help gut a bunch of them. By the way, don't forget a god piece of string the next time you gut one.Ed J, You can push a 190 grain 2865fps in a 30-06!

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Now I feel inadaquate. I've been hunting whitetails with a 25/06 for the past forty seasons or so and now I read that I should use as much gun as to the recoil i can handle. I don't think I need to use my 338-378 Weatherby for whitetails. Its plenty of gun for elk though.

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey ClayThe Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading doesn't agree with you. It says the 7mm is faster and flater shooting.

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from Dennis wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey ClayIf you have seen what happens when you hit a moose at 200yards out of a 30-06 you ought to see what happens when you hit one with a 220gr nosler partion loaded into a .300 WInMAg at about 275-300 yards. I lost a bit of meat but it floored him with one shot. I think this load would be great on elk but they dont want us to shoot them here. I like my 7mm RUM with 175gr Noslers which works great on anyhting including a 400lb bear at about 15 yards.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Clay:I've heard other references to the Kaibab Plateau before but have never seen any background on it. I can't believe that any place closed to hunting without a natural predation balance wouldn't be ruined. We do have Isle Rayale N.P. in Michigan where wolves coexist with moose. This is an island in Lake Superior with very litle immigration of either species but its really neat to watch the population fluctuation between the two. I think that immigration would really throw a monkey wrench into a place in the Southwest.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Knocked down two telephone poles with a Mustang when I was 18, totaled 3 vehicles before I was 20, ran broadside into the side of a car going 50 on a motorcycle when I was 23 and drove off a bridge on a motorcycle when I was 25. The bike landed on my leg twisting it backwards and ripping and tearing all the ligaments and tendons below my knee. Oh yeah and I ripped my bicep in half about ten years ago. I know when it's going to rain before it happens by the aches and pains... and I'm only 47.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

dickgun, don't really know if I'm related to that Clay Cooper, but I am related to Clay Dalton of the Dalton gang!O’Hell Michael, you should take stock in the IB drug company!Man, you crazy or what! I’m still setting here with a cold pack on my knee!!Hey Bubba, take a reloading manual that isn’t watered down and compare the 30-06 to the 7mm Rem Mag. First take the 7mm Rem Mag bullet weight and then take the maximum bullet weight from a 30-06 to match that velocity. You will find when you get into the heavier grain bullets, the 30-06 will outperform the 7mm Rem Mag in foot pound energy and trajectory. I can push a 190 grain just as fast as a 175 out of the 7mm a tad bet faster and flatter even at 1000 yards! 30-06 bullet has more frontal area on impact for larger wound cavity and more shock. Dirty little secret I know and you should see what a 30-06 does to a moose at 200 yards with a Remington 180 grain bullet!The proper way to compare one caliber cartridge to another caliber cartridge is the heaviest bullet you can push “AT” the same velocity of the two. The only common factor between the two is not bullet weight but equal velocity and then heaviest bullet at that velocity. Now calculate the advantage of one over the other.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Michael,My dad had one brother, no sisters. My mother had five sisters, no brothers. I have three sisters, no brothers. I have two daughters, no sons. I've had female problems all my life, along with the other maladies that I have been able to impose upon myself by youth and ignorance! If you've ever had to use your hands to swing a leg out of bed, you pass the physical. If you have a tendency to take Extra Strength Tylenol like they're M&M's! Come on in, you fit the bill!Bubba

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from Greg wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

We are in the same boat Micheal. 41 Titanium knee, 31 year old honey and 3 boys 3,9,and 12. We can be the youngsters in the ibu club. Oh yea motorcycle wreck!

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from Michael wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Coop, Bubba,All you old guys! I got a new hip at 42. 6 yrs foward combat air controller, jumping out of planes, choppers. Bull riding for 10 yrs. I'm currently 43. My beautiful wife is 32. My youngest is 2 and my oldest is 9, w/ a 5 yr old thrown in the middle. All girls. Even though I'm younger, can I join the Ibu club?

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from dickgun wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

To Clay Cooper,In the "Encyclopedia of Western Gunfighters" I recently read of a Jim and Clay Cooper who came to NM in 1883 and ranched the Tularosa country.Just curious if your roots go back to that time and place. Since that is personal history feel free to disregard.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Just about the time I hit the "Post" button, I had another thought. Maybe some of you have had some experience with this.A big, heavy, slow-moving slug does a real number on white tails and you can eat right up to the bullet hole! Very little blood shot meat!The ol' .45-70 Gov't, realizing it's limitations, (range, trajectory) is a great round.Bubba

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

BubbaJust make sure you have your hip boots handy....Have a nice Thanksgiving!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Clay and I have points we disagree on, and that's okay! If we all drove Fords, it would be a dreary world.BUT, here's one point we totally agree on.I worked in a gun store for a short while (abt 2 years) and was continually asked, "What's the best caliber for deer?"My standard reply was, "The largest caliber YOU can shoot comfortably."One of my little sales pitches was to break out the reloading manual (Sierra, at that time) and show them the difference between a .270 Win and a 7mm Rem Mag. With comparable bullet weights, the 7mm ballistic gain is at best, slight. If they didn't hand load, I would then drag out a box of each caliber round.I absolutely detest the .30-'06 Spgfld. Does that make it any less the epitomy of "all around"? I don't think so, for the "one rifle" hunter, he can't go wrong with the '06.You go Clay, I'll stand with you on the pulpit of "Bullet Placement" and "Practice" any day!Bubba

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

My Dearest Mr. D. PetzalYou are so funny! HA! HA! HA!Fifty seven!Titanium hip!Opposite side heel crushed!No weight bearing limbs left undamaged! Hypertension (can't get the exercise I used to, ergo, overweight!)I thank my lucky stars I CAN get out of bed!Besides being very pretty, (Ms. Garrett) what I miss is the young, supple skin instead of my sagging exterior. I miss the smoothness instead of this roadmap I have for a face! I miss the muscle tone instead of the turkey wattles!I'm over 50, but not dead, YET!!!!Thank you very much, Mr. P!!!!Bubba(having fun, not angry!)

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from KJ wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Chev Jim, you are truly The Man.

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Ms. Garrett and I used to share a tree stand, but her perfume invariably spooked the deer. So, I told her that we couldn't hunt together any more. I really hated to do it, but while you can always get a Ms. Garrett to sit in a stand with you, the trophy buck of a lifetime only comes by once in a lifetime, and you've got to be ready! You've got to have your priorities straight!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

FischerHuntsIf you going to use a 300 Win Mag on those rodents in Texas, try 130 grain Hornady soft points in it. Crank it out about 3500fps pluss!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

David E. PetzalWhy don't you do a column on the Kaibab Plateau when they closed all hunting?Now that would raise some heads and give the ProHunting the ability to go nuclear with the anti’s!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey David Petzal, so you’re your age?Join us old farts in the IB (Ibuprofen) Club!Military tried to kill me, got kicked in the leg by a horse and gained 75 pounds since I retired. YA YA, I know!

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Nice eye candy...as for recoil this is a matter of opinion.I think most us hunters know our limits if we have been shooting for sometime, and there is no doubt that practice is an important key to hunting success; but knowing how to shoot your gun well to many does not require alot of target practice. I have 3 canadian friends that barely fire a handful of shots before deer season to sight-in, and they get a deer every year for the past 20+ years. All farm boys(that retired from city jobs)and have been around guns all there lives.As for the 25/06 being acceptable for Elk,I don't beleive it a minimum caliber for that animal.Sorry boys, but if you are going for Elk, use as much gun as you can handle with a minimum .270 caliber.oh...and the ghost trick deer make in being/not being seen is quite amazing, and that's what makes hunting them so exciting.

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from Clay Cooepr wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperJackHumane Society on TV last night? What a nutcase! I wish Lara Ingram knew about what happened to the Kaibab Plateau when they closed it to all hunting! She would have nailed that SOB!

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

WAMtnhunterI'm 57 years old, got all the aches and pains described above, but really enjoy hunting. Every time I go to the eye doctor, they get worse. In Feb., I'll have my 6th grandchild. One is definitely southpaw, one maybe. What the hell, I might as well enjoy whatever deer seasons are left and then pass the guns on. I don't hunt the "fish fesces" of Texas, I don't hunt the Rockies, or Sierras I just hunt the massive bucks in the U.P.

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from Michael wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

to FischerHunts:My special lightweight Ruger no 1 25-06 track record so far is 7 one-shot kills on whitetails with 100 gr. corelokts. Meat loss was negligible. Two of the bucks dressed 160+. And yes, it will definitely do a number on coyotes!2 thoughts to Dave Petzal:whitetails ARE uncanny in their ability to disappear (or appear) if you blink.Does Ms. Garrett hunt? Looking at her makes me want to hook some brush.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

UP'erIf an adequate caliber rifle makes one flinch, then one needs to take up basket weaving, quilting, or varmint shooting or some other Nancy-boy pastime. I did not suggest a .25-06 is not an adequate deer rifle. In fact, a .257 Roberts is all the deer rifle most will ever need.I've been practicing for the past 40 years on various types of targets. I've ditched a 10 ga. and .338 Win mag because of recoil, not their adequacy. To each their own. Just be advised that when someone posts BS here, someone will call them on it.

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from FischerHunts wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I used to hunt with a 25-06 until I spent a season in South Texas, where the brush swallows up everything and the shots can be LONG. Buck of your Dreams may appear for only a brief few seconds crossing a 30ft wide sendero hot on the heels of his version of Ms. Garrett. A larger hole makes tracking easier when the fish feces that makes up the ground there sucks up blood like a sponge. You blood trail by poking dirt balls with your finger until you draw blood. A 300 Win Mag makes a fine Deer Rifle. A 25-05 is a good coyote gun. Use enough gun.

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Gotta admit at 59 I feel aches and pains every morning, too. …Too many injuries from 11-years in combat units and five years jumping horses. I actually incurred more injuries from horse competition than my military career. Whatever. I have a deep reverence for my waterbed in my age [aka: The Womb].Whitetails do seem to slip in and out of alternative dimensions at will. I find it strange I vividly recall all the bucks I missed and hunt them over and over again in my memory.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

WAMtnhunterYou missed the point that Clay Cooper, Dave Petzal, Kbhead and Mike Strehlow were trying to make. The lighter the recoil, the more you will practice. The lighter the recoil, the less chance that you'll flinch. That should result in a more accurate shot! At least that's what I took from this discussion.THANKS EVERYONE!

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from Greg wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

If she would I wouldn't know what the hell to do with it!!!!

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from Greg wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

There is an article about deer? Not gonna get much interest in the articles with aphoto like that! I wonder if my wife will let me have one of those for Xmas!!?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I would suggest a .30-06 over any .25 caliber on elk for the experienced or inexperienced. I don't think 117 - 120 grain bullets offer the mass to provide penetration on large game like elk and moose.Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can kill most anything with most any modern centerfire. I believe that elk bullets start at 150 grains and 165 to 200 grain are ideal to get the combination of mass and velocity. The assumption that a light projectile will penetrate better than a heavier one at similar velocities ignores laws of physics.Get a manly rifle or stay home!

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from Brian T wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Any fool knows that whitetails can't do StarTrek teleportation. They just pop up out of the ground like grouse, elk and turkeys.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

All of the advice ie well taken, thanks everyone! I'll wait until a 25-06 comes around. I might have to spend a little more but it should be worth the extra cost and I've got most of the year to look. My hunting is Michigan Whitetails, I really enjoy that and have no real desire to hunt anywhere else.On another note, there was some moron from the Humane Society on TV last night. They're trying to eliminate hunters donating wild game to food pantries. My world has turned upside down!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Amen, DaveThose over 50 with no pain: (a) have led a sheltered life, (b) don't do much, or (c) are chronic liars.Seven years of Airborne Infantry and 15 more years of less damanding military service coupled with a few nasty car wrecks, a helicopter crash, and a few falls along the way have ensured the survival of chiropractors and the pharmaceutical industry. My wife questions why I just HAVE to deer and elk hunt every year...... Answer: Because I may not be able to next year! Then I'll just fish in the pond and shoot crows and starlings out of the garden. Recently got a new Lab pup. I am looking forward to hunting and with him for the next ten or so years.

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

To Bubba: If you're over 50 years old and don't shriek in pain when you get out of bed in the morning, it's probably because you've died during the night.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I've got another disappearing deer story. Sitting on a ridge maybe twenty five years ago with my friend and hear something coming through the woods like a train wreck... big buck pops over the hill and continues wide open right at us... suddenly he's fifty yards away and sees us. What does he do? Jumps straight up in the air and sticks his front legs out and lays his head flat and slides right in front of us like Pete Rose coming into third. It's completely quiet and my friend says "where did he go?" I say "he's under the leaves right in front of us"... no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is... I know unless there's a tunnel right there he has to be right in front of me but we couldn't see him. We stand up and take a few steps and look around but nothing. Finally we decide he just teleported and laugh and right then he comes out of the ground and scares the crap out of us and runs away. We never fired a shot.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

DON'T THINK IN THE BOX!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I know it’s coming so I’m going to say it now. Why does a person who lacks the ability to shoot believe in making it up in firepower to think they must use a nuke when actually they need to shoot accurately first then work up to the largest cartridge they can handle. I suggest to the new hunters in Alaska, if you going to use a 300 Mag, get a 338 Win Mag instead. If you going to get the hell kicked out of you might as well do it right! Besides, a 30-06 is the best overall choice for the beginner hunter for even Moose. Yes I would suggest a 30-06 over a 25-06 on Elk for the inexperienced.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

David, you went running out of camp like a whipped dog? That’s my kind of weather!!25-06 with a 117 grain bullet will take a deer down just as stone dead as any other rifle! Less kick equals no flinch equals more concentration on the shot and you can reach out just as good as the big magnums. The only real advantage a 30 caliber magnums have is the ability to buck the wind or better put, less wind drift when the wind is up, period! David, you need to get you a 25-06 and go jack rabbit hunting and really tone up your skills!! The 25-06 is one of the best by far cartridges on the market! Best all around choice from youth to Women to extreme shooting. A 120 grain partition Nosler has the steam to take down an Elk! In fact it is the smallest on the recommendation list of cartridges for taking Elk. By the way, a Hornady 130 grain in a 30-06 works fantastic on Mule Deer!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

You must be very careful what you write, 'cause somebody's going to misinterpret it!Shaky, your time of dead day dreaming all day will come soon enough, as will mine also!It's the photo, that I dream of daily, and it's not necessarily because of Ms. Garrett's looks, (though she's awful easy on the eyes!) I miss the exuberance of youth! Getting out of bed and not hurting like I need to get back into bed!Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Dennis:Thanks for the heads up. I found the M93 22mag on their web site and I'll bet Wal-Mart could even order one.MattIf I saw the Janet Reno picture with anything less than a sixpack in me, I'd probably have to buy a new laptop cause this one's barfed on. Also, if anything comes up with respect Hillary, I think why buy new guns now. They'll be gone within 2 terms.

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Bubba; I also am old, but my daily dream is not of being being dead.

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from Dennis wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey all of you guys that are southpaws like me i just thought of a left handed rifle that is cheap to shoot. It a savage either model 93(22mag) or a model mkII(22LR). I havent used either of them but i have a model 93 on order. Your talking about $200 for them the 93 is slightly more expensive. Maybe Dave knows something about them

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from Matt wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I'm so very sorry, Dave. I don't have a clue in hell what you just wrote about. I was busy staring at two things... I'm pretty sure you know what those things are! My two cents: If you want anyone to read what you write, either open up with a photo of a scantily-clad woman who looks like Janet Reno after a week-long bender, or (preferably, for the sake of man-kind) open with the line "So I was b***h-slapping Hillary Clinton the other day and got to thinking..."

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I have to agree with DP’s basics on 25-06 for big game. I shot for years with a 257 Roberts for deer and varmints, and the cartridge did very well in this role. Upon hunting Montana a season there was no doubt a long, skinny120-grain bullet in 25-cal would take items larger than deer, but it was marginal at best. From that time my big game rifles have always been those cartridges that would throw a slug 140-grains or more.It would seem DP’s experience is the same and likely he uses the 130-grain bullet in his 6.5 Swede.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Jeez, after all these years experience and all this combined intellgence, and you guys don't know? I thought everybody knew! God drops deer out of the sky like rain! The one's he drops on the ground do fine, the one's that hit the pavement splatter a bit. I know you've seen those lying beside the highway.Had a button buck during bonus season (it WAS antlerless!) staring me down in my blind. Pin fell twice on a dud primer. Tried slowly to retract bolt, extractor dropped round just out of reach. Finally dropped the butt of my rifle and the errant round rattled around the action and magazine before finally thumping to the sandy soil of the pop-up floor. Slowly bolted another round down hole and did the "nasty" as the little varmint continued to stare me down! Felt it was my duty to help clean the ignorance gene out of my local deer herd!As far as Ms. Garrett! I may be old, but I ain't DEAD!!! For me at my age, THAT is a "daily" dream!Bubba

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Ms. Garrett certainly makes my tail wag...Yeah, the white-tailed deer is a very special animal. I've hunted most of the major species in North America and still love hunting whitetails. Whitetail bucks never cease to get my heart pumping! And it is comforting to note that I always will be able to afford to hunt this species, unlike some species like wild sheep, grizzly bears and private lands elk. Much of that has gone of of my financial reach in recent years.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

KJ, my size starts with lots of Xs and ends with Ls. When Bass Pro or Cabela's lets me down, I head to Omar the Tent Maker.Yooperjack, a very good point regarding having the same sighting equipment on the 22 and big game weapon. Regarding the LH, RH number of practice repetitions, this is a complex issue. A rare persom may do it but most of us struggle with the left/right dominance issue.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Deader than world peace... excuse me, while I steal this line. Help me.Jimi

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

While the rack pictured above is not B&C huge, it is close enough to perfect for me....I wouldn't mind seeing those hams and backstrap.....

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I beg to differ!! There is a supervisor where I work who is endowed with the uncanny ability to appear out of thin air. And it's always when you least expect it, too. I'd be workin', doin' my thing, then as soon as I turn around, that sumbitch is standing right there, eyeballin' me! Scares the crap out of me every time. It works the other way, too. Say you need his keys to open the supply room or something. The man then disappears and is nowhere to be found. And I know that I'm not the only one here who has witnessed this phenomenon, y'all agree?

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

PbheadWould it make much difference using a RH .22 for target practice? I'm sure I'll never get lucky enough to find a LH .22 or .22WMR. I would like to get one with a scope similar to the scope I would buy for the deer rifle.I can't explain deer camo. I swear that deer change their color to match their surroundings. Even the fawns in the spring are invisible. You can almost step on them unless they're on green grass. If you don't have snow for deer season, you just don't see them unless you hear them first.

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from Gman wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Dave:I climbed 3/4 of the way to the top of one of the Catskills' big peaks yesterday, and did not see Beau Garrett (or a deer).There are no acorns up high this year and the deer have all yarded behind the old farmhouse. So much for high country bucks this year. I am assuming Ms. Garrett will stay off the peak also. Look for her in the laurels in the lowlands.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

There...My brother had a similar experience with a borrowed Remington 7400. On the way to his stand he saw a nice buck, and since he wasn't in his stand yet he hadn't loaded his rifle. Needless to say, the "click" of the firing pin falling spooked the buck.PbHead, what size do you wear? Bass Pro might have something in your size (heh heh...)

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from Dennis wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I know that deer are pretty smart and they can camoflauge themselves really well but they also do some stupid things. My buddies got back for the deer camp last night with a really nice 12point that dressed out a little over 200 pounds. My friend saw him just before dark as he was headed in,the problem was that he was out over 250+ yards and dan was packing his 45-70 and so he didnt want to try for the shot. The buck stayed there while he went back to camp to get his 6.5x55(swedish mauser) and come back. He dropped the buck with one shot(heart and lungs). The problem was the stupid thing fell into the swamp and he had a real fun time getting him out and back to camp. Only decent buck they saw all week but they also got three does. A nice bag of central ontario whitetails

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

So Dave how do you get away with all these comments regarding fine young women? Obviously a bachelor... I was walking through a horse pasture with a muzzle loader once upon a time ducked down so the landowner would not see me (don't ask) and a mule started following much too closely and the next thing I knew I almost stepped on an eight point buck. He bounced once and was obviously disassembled and projected elsewhere because it was a big field and he literally disappeared...

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

A .25-06 will have about 2/3 the kick of a .30-06, shoot flatter, and kill deer just as well. Unless you are an elk, bear, or moose hunter, the .30-06 is more than you need, despite how many of us (me included) hunt deer with them. I've been thinking about a .25-06 myself.As for Dave's tales of deer transporting, etc., I've believed every story I've heard about whitetails since the time in Wyoming when I saw a buck with a rack like a Christmas tree raise his head about 20 yards from me. I didn't know he was there and the grass he was hiding in was about a foot and a half high. When I got to where he'd been, he was gone. I was carrying a camera that day, but I missed him anyway. Deer can vanish, all right. I've always thought they used mirrors, but Dave may be on to something with this transporter theory, although Steve C's cloaker idea is also worth following up.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Practice, practice, practice. Work that action either at the range or by dry firing. It takes at least 3,000 repetitions to be able to perform a physical task without thinking. Another case for the 22 rifle action matched to the big game gun.Dave, regarding Ms. Garrett's outfit: Is it appropriate for a Maine tower blind? Does it come in camo patterns? Can I get one in time for Christmas?

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

No wolves in Maine that I know of, but coyotes that are the same size as Rin-Tin-Tin, and they have about the same effect as wolves.As for the .25/06, it's not an exotic cartridge, but it's never been really popular. An '06 would do you fine; it kicks more than the .25/06, but is far more versatile. A .25/06 is for light game; a .30/06 can take on anything. Use any good 150-grain bullet for deer.I did not get a deer in Maine; in fact I went running out of camp like a whipped dog. Logging and a day of torrential rain turned the roads to soup, and with a cold front coming in I was advised to leave now or leave much, much later. Life is not all beer and skittles.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

“Mildly retarded” is a term that would only apply to any hunter stupid enough to buy into the theory that a deer is able to tele-transport. However, they do have the ability to cloak when there's a loaded weapon in the vicinity.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey Dave:After all the rants in previous posts about staying on subject you interjected Beau Garrett and a movie I'm sure none of us ever heard of?Any I could care less (she's quite pretty but young enough to be my daughter)After all that's been said about the light calibers between you and Clay Cooper, I've got a hair up my butt about buying a left-handed rifle. I really like the Sakos, would love a 25-06, but they seem to be really rare. I found one in 30-06 for a good price in a store near here. Is there a lot of practical difference in ballistics and recoil?I shoot a 94 Winchester with open sights and would love to go with something that I could put a scope on. If I wait for a 25-06, I might not live that long.It sounds like you had a nice trip to Maine. Glad the guy got the buck. Lots of Wolves in Michigan. I think its having an affect on our deer herd. Same in Maine?

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

to B. Cameron: I am merely relating the tale as it was told to me, and from my experience pumps do work better if they are operated smartly, as do bolts and levers and sem-autos.

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from B. Cameron wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Again with the shotgun bash, Dave? For shame!Yes, in order to get a good eject from an 870, you have to run the slide *back* pretty firmly - but if you're putting one in the chamber and closing the action, you can do it just as fast or slow as you want. Or perhaps I've got the only 870 that allows this?Or, then again, maybe you're bashing the 760/7600? My 760 has chambered at all speeds with nary a hiccup. You have to be firm at the last to make sure the bolt face is seated, but again, never an issue with a slow rack!Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my treestand... it's nap time! Dreaming about deer seems to be the only sure way to see any this week.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I'd write something but I'm meditating on Ms. Beau Garrett...

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from Tommy wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

Hey Dr. Ralph,Guess what the first 3 guns I bought were.3 hints: Marlin, Mossberg, Remington.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

Yeah, O'Connor was a big fan of the 30-06 too. In fact he said if those fast 150 grain bullets had been available when he was forming his opinions he might have favored it... but all he could find were the 180's and they just didn't perform like the .270 bullets. Didn't open up fast enough and didn't shoot flat enough he claims. But he did say if a man could only own three guns he could hunt any animal in the world. A .22, a 12 ga., and a 30-06! I love Cactus Jack because we're both opinionated assholes...

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

I weighed l80 lbs prior to my cancer, now at l28. A 06 is the max I can handle. When I hunt out west,I either hunting Lopes with the 25-06 or Mulies/Elk at same time and therfore need the 06 in l80 gr Scricco's to handle the Elk.Until Remigton stopped making the extended range l68 gr that was what I use all the time. When the 700 CDL came out, I bought the first one my Dealer got and tried many brands of ammo.The Rem Scricco put 3 shots at 200 yds that a l/2 dollar will cover, so thats my choice now. I realize a l80 gr is a lot for w-tails, but with only 3-4" drop at 345 yds why change? and a 800 lb Bull may show up and the 25-06 at ll7 grs not enought for me. Rather be over gunned than under-gunned. I want that animal to fall. O well, we all got our choices for what we can shoot better. Never owned a 270,figure the 25-06 is as good or the 06 at l50 gr. better. Got my doubts that O'Conner used the 270 as his only hunting rifle, kinda figure he slipped in a 06 now and then, but his articles on 270's was good reading provding you had a 270

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

I would love to have a pre-64 Winchester M70 in .300 H&H! Not because it is the most efficient, fastest, flattest shooting, or any other reason except it is a classic big game caliber. Yeah, I know it is not superior to a good '06 load or a .300 Win Mag, but it IS a classic.Who cares if it is a little heavier due to the long action and longer barrel? Get off the couch, exercise those flabby muscles, and lose 10 pounds1 Then you will feel better carrying that heavy old rifle!

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 19 weeks ago

I bet more game been killed with Rems, Core-lokt than all other ammo combined. Hand loading is ok,providing you spend a ton on rquiptment and the stuff you need to reload. A friend gave me 3 boxes of lst time reloades, non will eject after I fire them.So from now on will just buy factory ammo as it's come a long way in past 10 yrs. It takes quality ammo to kill but shot placement is the secret, but you gotta pratice a lot to achive accuracy. I got a buddy who hunts w-tails with a 22 mag. All his shots are head shots,between the eye and ear, and his freezer is already full this year. I told him now he needs to try the 22 mag on a Texas shot??????. Shoot-um-straight and often.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

I've shot an old Winchester 70 in .300 H&H Magnum before and everyone was taking turns shooting each others guns. Everyone said my old Rem 30-06 was the hardest kicking gun there but it had a steel butt plate. We were all surprised how little the .300 H&H kicked. It certainly wouldn't be bad in a Ruger No. 1 because we all know they weigh something like 20 pounds...

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackI'm a dyed-in-the-wool .270 Win, Jack O'Connor lover! The only bore in my closet larger than .277 is shotgun, black powder and one hand-me-down .30-30 Win I got from my Grampa!If it can't be killed with a .270 Win, I just won't hunt it!If I can't get within 250 yards of it, I just won't shoot!I have one, and only ONE, magnum itch that will probably never be scratched. I would love to have a .300 H&H Mag in a heavy bbl No. 1 Ruger! Why a .300 H&H? It's old, and, if you'll look through a reloading manual, it will do what the .300 Win and .300 Wby will with less powder! The .300 H&H may not be able to achieve the top end the others can, but I don't go there anyway because it isn't necessary! (It's a handloader thing!)My biggest delimma is: Since it's almost a straight wall case, how is the recoil? I'd really hate to spend that much money on a "Custom" rifle, and then not be able to shoot it "comfortably".Hey Clay C., had much experience with Holland's Super .30?Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Thanks Bubba:I guess I never really considered the cost of reloading. Frankly, I don't know if I would shoot enough to save money on reloading. My observation was that a fellow (Clay Cooper) goes out and shoots massive animals with rather small rifles. Given; he's an expert rifleman but assume for a minute that someone else on that same level of marksmanship, shot just as much but used only ammo purchased from WallyWorld. My theory is that the storebought would perform at a somewhat lower level, both for hunting and target shooting.I believe your in the 30-06 camp. Clay leans toward the 25-06 with a reservation (buyem both). The handloading is something that I've never considered in 57 years.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackHere's a bit of a delimma for you.For your shooting buck (dollar), you will find that reloaders probably spend the same money, if not more that those that shoot factory ammo! BUT, you get a whole lot more bang for the buck! The most expensive part of reloading is the case, then the bullet. One pound of powder is 7000 grains. My .270 absolutely loves 46.5 grains of IMR 4895 and a Sierra 130 gr BTSP.How many loads can I get from one pound of powder? At least 150!I don't think reloaders do "it" any cheaper, they just get a whole lot more bang for their "collective" buck! (dollar or deer)Bubba

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Thanks, Clay.I might be a slow learner but I do try. :)

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Yooper JBuy both the Sako's and you'll never be under-gunned!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Dave in St PeteCongratulations Sir, you’re getting my point! Just imagine if you reload your own ammo what you can do

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay Cooper:I'm not sucked into any fad. I'm just shopping for a left handed bolt. If there are 7 Rugers, there are 6 7MM & 300 Win Mags. If there are 12 Remingtons, at least 10 will be 7MM Mag or 300 mag. I found a SAKO 30-06 and a SAKO 25-06. I'm pondering between the two right now. Actually my biggest challenge right now is finding my beloved of 35 years a Christmas present. Boy she's hard to shop for.No I haven't read that story. I would like to though. It sounds like something I'd like.Thanks Again

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay,For a grin I ran some calibers / bullets on the Remington Shoot! program to compare.I optimized them for a 3 inch kill zone.Here are the numbers;30-06 125 grain PSP, point blank range 222 yards. remaining FPS 2387, remaining energy 1581 ft/lbs.270 130 grain PSP, point blank range 222 yards. remaining FPS 2457, remaining energy 1746 ft/lbs.25-06 120 grain PSP, point blank range 217 yards. remaining FPS 2438, remaining energy 1584 ft/lbs.Those sound like identicle triplets!!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackP.S.Please don't get sucked into the fad crowd!Have you ever read the story about the old hunter on the mountain with an old Remington Model 721 30-06?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Magnums are ok if you can handle the recoil and shoot accurately. Besides, I know too many hunters that if they had a 30-06 in Alaska rather than that big shoulder dislocating, snot nockerouter, ear splitting magnum rifle, they would have something on the wall to show rather empty pockets! I can handle a 338 Win Mag on shots at long range. This doesn’t make everyone else to jump on the band wagon and do the same. Trust me Sir on this one and ask yourself this question. Do I really need that big magnum or can the tried and proven 06 family do it and do it better for me? I’ve been there and done the big magnum game YooperJack and I find myself going back to the 06 family! Next year I’m hoping to be Elk hunting and my 338 Win Mag is coming out of mothballs. Yes, if I didn’t have the 338 I wouldn’t give using my 30-06 a second thought.The bottom line is this. What is the largest cartridge you can handle accurately and the maximum range of your shooting ability that is proper for the terrain and game?

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

ClayI think you might have a lot of folks reading whatever you write.Whatever website I go to, there are probably 7 or 8 magnums for every 25-06 or 30-06 that is available for that particular make and model.Thanks Again!YooperJack

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackWhat you say, Sad thing is he probably thought it was easy, not knowing how much preparation and experience that you put into the hunt.That s so true now days and what our Fathers or Grandfathers didn’t pass down to us.By the way on if you decide to reload? The 30-06 has some super neat loads you can cook up! For example, if you live in open country like cross canyon shots over 200 yards are the norm, Hornady’s 130 grain soft point with 54 grains of IMR4064 is absolutely ideal. You can thump it out a 24 inch barrel in a 30-06 around 3300 fps making a super great load for coyotes and monster mule deer with less recoil than a 150 grain. This is a dirty little secret I know that the ammo makers don’t want you to know! Ya Ya I know, I love my 25-06 over my 30-06 on deer but when it gets down to the nitty gritty on getting a fellow shooter on line the right way, I got to do and say what is right so I know for a fact their hunt is a successful hunt and what I’ve done for them is the best what anyone can do, besides I’m putting my reputation on it and for those that truly know me, they do know it’s good as gold and you can take it to the bank! By the way Honady makes a 190 grain soft point boat tail I load it at 2830 making it a superior load over the 7mm Rem Mag 175 grain bullet even at 1000 yards! Knowing how to load and tweak and peak a load takes allot of learning.If anyone says to load a bullet just deep enough to touch the lands of the rifling to get better accuracy is full of BS! If this is to be true, Weatherby rifles and my 03-A3 would be the most inaccurate rifle on the planet. This is one of the best way to blow you gun up!!!Now if you decide to go the 25-06 route, I got some loads that will really make the magnum shooters take notice! That Hornady 117 grain SST my 8 year old Grandson really made an impression on everyone from the field to the check in station to the game processing shop. Every young kid was shooting 223 to 243 and was totally blown away on the 25-06 when Alex is only about 5 inches taller than the rifle. After Alex’s deer hunt with the 25-06, I am totally convinced that the 25-06 is the #1 best choice from youth to women to those that are recoil sensitive to extreme shooters!

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay:Thanks again for more info. Maybe I'll have to take up reloading for a hobby.Still haven't decided between 30-06 and 25-06. I can do either.Also, hats off to you for taking the lad hunting. I'm sure you made that into the trip of a lifetime. Sad thing is he probably thought it was easy, not knowing how much preparation and experience that you put into the hunt.Thanks Again.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

PS: My shooting ability needs no improvement to "step into a .25-06."

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Good on you, Clay! Sponsoring that kid is a great thing to do.I too am a closet quarter bore fan. My two .257 Roberts rifles are my favorite deer rifles, although I don't use them much on combination deer and elk hunts because I think they are marginal for elk. I usually take two elk rifles when I hunt out of town. A .35 Whelen (just because) and a .30-06. I haven't taken my .257 R to Colorado just to keep from lugging three rifles. One of them is going this year primed with some 100 grain Barnes TSX handloads! The next bargain I find on a .25-06 will be added to my battery.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterI’m a sponsor for a young gentleman I nicknamed Rocky from the Dominican Republic for his US citizenship. Two weekends ago I took him out to Jacks place, about 100 plus acres of land for his first deer hunt. He was using my 30-06 700ADL 22 inch barrel (cough, gag!) using Hornady 150 grain SST loaded just over 3050 fps and dropped a nice 5 point buck with one shot. He has shot both my 25-06 and the 30-06 now and asked what should be his next rifle? He wants to go Elk hunting with me next year so the obvious answer is the 30-06! WAH depending on the terrain you’re hunting makes choosing the right cartridge a challenge of its own. If I was to own one rifle and one rifle only, it would be the 30-06!The bottom line from Ol’Sarge is this, when choosing the best cartridge the ultimate choice is the 30-06! I’ve hunted every environment a hunter can be from swamps to New Mexico to Alaska to name a few and the 30-06 for having only one rifle is the best choice. Later you can step into buying a 25-06 once you’ve learned the ropes of caliber usage on game vs terrain and your shooting ability.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

YooperJackSo you really want to buy a bolt action deer rifle but boy there's lots I don't know?Brother………THAT’S NO JOKE!The best way to answer your question is like this.Yes I do all my reloading for all my rifles and handguns. It’s the only way I can afford to shoot and get the trigger time to keep my shooting skills in shape.Buying your ammo at WallyWorld is like buying chicken from KFC. Yes its good tasting but it’s not near as good as on the back porch BBQ!When I reload, I can tweak and peak a load for a specific rifle for a hunt to get the best performance and load bullets that are too expensive and/or not on the shelves at the sporting goods store. Besides, it cuts the cost of ammo dramatically and if you shoot as much as I do, it pays for the equipment fast!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

ClayI think you are on to something.I took this year's buck out of a honey hole that three guys had hunted hard (?) the past four days. Something about hunting the wind, being quiet, staying off the skyline, and watching the other critters and their reactions to the goings on around them, etc....You are right about not needing a moose load for deer. However, most of the places where I hunt I am not at the top ofthe food chain without a .30 caliber or greater equalizer. If the biggest things around with claws and fangs are bobcats and coyotes, then a .25-06 is about right.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Clay:Something just hit me reading your post. Do you make your own ammo? If so, could you be getting much better performance from a certain caliber (25-06) than I could buying my ammo at WallyWorld?This concept is really scary. I really want to buy a bolt action deer rifle but boy there's lots I don't know.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

You guys crack me up, no joke! Why in the world do you need a Moose load on a white tail or mule deer?Man, if you can’t bring the brown down, go back to town!25-06 Hornady 117 SST @3248 fps ROCKS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Yesterday evening a thick cloud bank rolled into the top off the ridges so I thought I try an old hunting place. Within 100 yards to the top of this mammoth step ridge on an old cat trail, I noticed a big doe playing pick a boo with me. As I got 50 yards of here she laid flat on the ground and disappeared. When I just got passed her, her head popped up, eyes and ears erected like radar thinking I didn’t see her watching me go by. I wonder how many times I’ve been on those ridges just blowing up those ridges on my 4x4 ATV Suzuki 500 and just crused by ol’thrasher?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

Get some Federal 180 grain Cast Core .357's. I doubt there is anything in Montana that it won't kill at close range. I shot through 8 inches of treated fir boards with a S&W Mod 19 4" at 15 feet. Then had to dig it out of the stump backstop. Barely deformed the bullet.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 20 weeks ago

I use a 700 30-06 and a 700 25-06.Both firearms have their place in hunting.Last year I proved myself wrong about a 06 being a extreme long range rifle, but only 3-4" drop at 345 yds with a 200 yd zero. My hunting guns out west are all zeroed for 200 yds. Then I killed a Lope at 325 yds with the 25-06 using Ballastic tips. I use thr Scricco l80 grs in the 30-06. I killed a nice buck here last week at 260 yds, and bullet went all way thru both front shoulders, tore out the lungs, that deer jumped a 6 ft ft wire fence, then ran about 70 yds before he fell over. I can;t understand how he did such with 2 broken front legs. But to say the 06 is not a long range firearm and will not take any game in North Amercia is stupid. It will handle anything other than maybe a Charged up mean old Sow Griz, if was hunting them, would surely want a back up hunter with a 375 H&H or larger. But with correct ammo, the 06 and 25-06 are all the gun you need anywhere.I plan to use the 25-06 tomorrow and remainder of season, as don;t want the bullet to go allway thru the game, just wnat to tear his boiler system up. As I say, was proven wrong on both Ammo, firearm and animal last week, in the fact a deer jumped a 6 ft fence,with 2 broken shoulders and lung gone, but still runs 70 yds. As a Rule my game falls in its tracts, but this deer was shot 2=3" too high to get heart. My fault at 260 yds in low light. Buy good provem Ammo and you get resuls if you do your part. Was proud of myself at 72, to be able to even hunt, but at that distance, unbeleaveable in my book. But we got the heads to prove th fact. Hey you guys know anything about a handgun A. UBERTI, imported by Benelli from Italy? If so, whats your thoughts on quality and looks in general. I want a new side arm for the Rockies. My 357's not enough in my book.Or, maybe just another excuse to buy another firearm.I figure at my age, what the heck, buy all you can afford and just hunt/ buy more guns. My trip next year to the Rockies will be my last, as the 3 week trip just takes its toll on me. Flying 2500 miles to Idaho Border, is hard work holding up that huge plane.But want l last Elk, Lope,Mulie. Got W-tails larger here. But killed many out in MT. W-tails in MT a dime a dozen, but finding a large mass 8 or above is tough. Got a nice 8 last 2 yrs,m and one here, now want a huge Monster in 8 or above with a 24+ s[pread in Mulie or w-tail. But the Mulies stay high with Elk till snow moves tthem down to bottoms after snow get 10 ft deep at 10-12K feet.Got my first Mulie on on opening day l hr after light at 8K feet but was bitter cold, near 0. Only Mulie I saw shotable to me for 2 more weeks. But some years thats the way animals move around. OK, shoot straight and often,

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

mr.bYou've got a lot of willpower. I probably couldn't do that on my first buck. Did you get one yet? Please keep us informed, one way or the other. My hat will be off to you either way!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Thought you had escaped, huh?I find it amusing and entertaining that I can get both pictures of Ms. Garrett on my computer screen simultaneously due to their placement on the page.Was that intended Mr. D. Petzal?Think you're cute, huh?!Well, just turn a bored red neck loose with a loaded computer and now you know what happens!Bubba

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I showed up in S. Texas with a 25-06 because my Dad was a wildcatter in the 60's when the 25-06 was getting popular. He hunter Mule deer and Whitetails with his and claimed that was all you needed. Several years of one shot kills at 400+ yards were very convincing. When he offered to build me a gun for my H.S. Graduation I of course wanted one. I used it for everthing but all I hunted were WT in central Texas. S Texas Opened My eyes. I graduated? to a 7MM Rem Mag w/Brake because I was afraid of the recoil I had heard from all the Gun Gurus of the day. A few years later I went to S texas again but this time I hunted Nilgai. Killed one with the 7 mag and my handloaded 175gr TBBC but did so with a neck shot and realized that the 375 H&H my buddy used was much better for much bigger game. This opened my eyes to exotics and dreams of Africa, so I bought a 375 and learned to shoot it (no Muzzel Brake). After that I threw away the MB on the 7 mag. Elk Hunting in the Rockies lead to the 300 Win Mag which is my go to gun in S Texas. If I'm going to hunt in the Texas Hill Country I use a 7-08. I'm supposed to be leaving for Tanzania next Oct to hunt Cape Buffalo so now I have a 458 win mag. It's actually been fun to shoot. The new recoil pads R-3 and Kick Ez make a HUGE difference from the hard rubber POS that showed up on the Ruger.Happy Thanksgiving.Good Huntin'Use Enough Gun.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

You go mr.bJust this year, I blatted two bucks into gun range. Neither would have been my first, if I could have gotten a shot, but I had never used a doe blat until then. They are both still out there, waiting for me. The thrill of having them respond? Immeasurable!!BubbaP.S. neither was a monster, but both were respectable!

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from mr.b wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

To no one in particular: I'm near 53, and finally had all the elements fall into place. I was lucky enough to grunt call a doe and fork-horn buck to within 25 ft. of me. What a sight, and what a rush! Had the fork in my sights, and passed. Never bagged a deer yet, and I'm holding out for a bigger boy to tag as my first. But the thrill of that morning will stick with me for awhile........thanks for listening.......

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

ClayIt was never intended to be a joke. I compare our ecosystem knowledge to knowledge of space. Its not that we don't try. I think we're just overwhelmed. we have had very inteligent people working on forestry and wildlife challenges for around 100 years. Every time something new is tried, the term "Unforeseen Consequences" seems to arise. I hate to get religon but I honestly believe that the Good Lord put us on this earth to be masters of this domain. But I also believe that we have to work very hard to accomplish this. While we need some areas to be free from hunting and some to be designated wilderness. This gives us control areas to compare with areas that are actively managed. But for us to believe that we can control wildlife populations by simply enacting laws, that's just pure liberal arrogance.Hope the season is going well for you. I still really value your insight into the 25-06 and hope to be shooting one by next season.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Yooperjackhow much we don't know about our ecosystem?Thats no joke!

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey Everyone!HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!YooperJack

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from lastearlofshaw wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Geez, Dave: If I had to keep my rifle un-loaded in my pickup, I'd never have time to get a round off at any of my Ozark neighbors...

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from Flatwater wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

That's what I love about this post-the little tangents we shoot off on. I've seen disappearing and reappearing deer (walked within 10 feet of one deer, three times, before he finally jumped up and scared the heck out of me. I missed), jumped on and off the "short-fat-ultra-makeyoureyesbleed-poopinyourpants-mag" bandwagon (now it's an '06 with 150gr. handloads and a Model 1900, 2-1/2" chamber 12 ga.), and know what it's like to be a little sore in the morning (six weeks of traction w/shattered elbow @ 3-yrs old-wrecked my bicycle. Titanium plate, 9 screws, 5 pins, 200 stitches, 14 staples @ 29, six months ago-wrecked my Harley. Hmm, a pattern...plus several broken arms, nose, both feet, etc.)

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey Clay we make more mistakes every day. In 1986, the Safari Club financed the trapping and relocation of I believe 50 moose from Canada into Michigan's Upper Peninsula. The goal was to have a population of about 1,000 animals by year 2000 and a limited hunting season. For many reasons that no one could have predicted in advance, this year we have between 400 and 450. I believe that the count is low, but not that low. The animals have dispersed over a much larger area than was thought in 1986. I believe that the effort was well worth the cost, in spite of the low population.Vince Lombardi once said "winning isn't everything but trying to win is". The Safari Club tried.I've been a practicing forester now for over thirty years and I'm amazed at how much we don't know about our ecosystem. Man is very insignificant compared to the good lord above!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperjackHow so true and we look back and say,O’GOD!WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!Even today this tragedy has been swept under the carpet and I’m still surprised but then again I’m not that David Petzal hasn’t picked up on this. I suppose it isn’t proper “PC” for Field and Stream to do this kind of story….

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Met a fella many years ago that used to say, "The only reason they build magnum shotguns is so the Cajuns in south Louisiana can hear noise and feel pain when they pull the trigger!"I read an article once that stated the only cartridge that "actually" needed the belted case was the .300 H&H, with little shoulder, they had to have a point from which to determine head space! Since that article was printed, maybe some other cartridges out there need belted cases.Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Thanks Clay! That pretty much parallels the Yellowstone Case Study. One could draw a conclusion that TR was pretyy dumb with respect to wildlife management but a lot wasn't known about this science back then. At least he tried! I'm surw he's turning over in his grave right now, seeing some of the results. He was willing to bring conservation of natural resources to the forefront in America.

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Bubba; I really did'nt missunderstand what you wrote, but was pulling your leg, I hope it wasn't the one that's the worst messed up.The disappearing,and appearing,of deer is not confined to wt,but also to mulies and especially to black tailed deer. I have listened very carefully for one to scream into his wrist watch"beam me up, Scotty",but so far haven't been able to verify.Will keep you posted.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperJackHere is the link to the info on Kaibab. It’s in several parts/links and you must read all of it without skipping any info.http://depts.alverno.edu/nsmt/youngcc/research/kaibab/story1.htmlI can’t believe that David Petzal never picked up on this, I got the wrong job!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I'll do a litle backround on this and get back with you.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperJackThey closed hunting on the Kaibab Plateau and the result was devastating! They slowly reopened it over the years and carefully rebuilt the ecosystem. Back 1993 you could still see the browse line in some areas.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Ed J, hell if using as much gun you can handle, I'd be out with my 338 also!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Dennis220gr nosler partion loaded into a .300 WInMAg at about 275-300 yards? Yes I do and help gut a bunch of them. By the way, don't forget a god piece of string the next time you gut one.Ed J, You can push a 190 grain 2865fps in a 30-06!

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Now I feel inadaquate. I've been hunting whitetails with a 25/06 for the past forty seasons or so and now I read that I should use as much gun as to the recoil i can handle. I don't think I need to use my 338-378 Weatherby for whitetails. Its plenty of gun for elk though.

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from Ed J wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey ClayThe Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading doesn't agree with you. It says the 7mm is faster and flater shooting.

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from Dennis wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey ClayIf you have seen what happens when you hit a moose at 200yards out of a 30-06 you ought to see what happens when you hit one with a 220gr nosler partion loaded into a .300 WInMAg at about 275-300 yards. I lost a bit of meat but it floored him with one shot. I think this load would be great on elk but they dont want us to shoot them here. I like my 7mm RUM with 175gr Noslers which works great on anyhting including a 400lb bear at about 15 yards.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Clay:I've heard other references to the Kaibab Plateau before but have never seen any background on it. I can't believe that any place closed to hunting without a natural predation balance wouldn't be ruined. We do have Isle Rayale N.P. in Michigan where wolves coexist with moose. This is an island in Lake Superior with very litle immigration of either species but its really neat to watch the population fluctuation between the two. I think that immigration would really throw a monkey wrench into a place in the Southwest.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Knocked down two telephone poles with a Mustang when I was 18, totaled 3 vehicles before I was 20, ran broadside into the side of a car going 50 on a motorcycle when I was 23 and drove off a bridge on a motorcycle when I was 25. The bike landed on my leg twisting it backwards and ripping and tearing all the ligaments and tendons below my knee. Oh yeah and I ripped my bicep in half about ten years ago. I know when it's going to rain before it happens by the aches and pains... and I'm only 47.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

dickgun, don't really know if I'm related to that Clay Cooper, but I am related to Clay Dalton of the Dalton gang!O’Hell Michael, you should take stock in the IB drug company!Man, you crazy or what! I’m still setting here with a cold pack on my knee!!Hey Bubba, take a reloading manual that isn’t watered down and compare the 30-06 to the 7mm Rem Mag. First take the 7mm Rem Mag bullet weight and then take the maximum bullet weight from a 30-06 to match that velocity. You will find when you get into the heavier grain bullets, the 30-06 will outperform the 7mm Rem Mag in foot pound energy and trajectory. I can push a 190 grain just as fast as a 175 out of the 7mm a tad bet faster and flatter even at 1000 yards! 30-06 bullet has more frontal area on impact for larger wound cavity and more shock. Dirty little secret I know and you should see what a 30-06 does to a moose at 200 yards with a Remington 180 grain bullet!The proper way to compare one caliber cartridge to another caliber cartridge is the heaviest bullet you can push “AT” the same velocity of the two. The only common factor between the two is not bullet weight but equal velocity and then heaviest bullet at that velocity. Now calculate the advantage of one over the other.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Michael,My dad had one brother, no sisters. My mother had five sisters, no brothers. I have three sisters, no brothers. I have two daughters, no sons. I've had female problems all my life, along with the other maladies that I have been able to impose upon myself by youth and ignorance! If you've ever had to use your hands to swing a leg out of bed, you pass the physical. If you have a tendency to take Extra Strength Tylenol like they're M&M's! Come on in, you fit the bill!Bubba

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from Greg wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

We are in the same boat Micheal. 41 Titanium knee, 31 year old honey and 3 boys 3,9,and 12. We can be the youngsters in the ibu club. Oh yea motorcycle wreck!

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from Michael wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Coop, Bubba,All you old guys! I got a new hip at 42. 6 yrs foward combat air controller, jumping out of planes, choppers. Bull riding for 10 yrs. I'm currently 43. My beautiful wife is 32. My youngest is 2 and my oldest is 9, w/ a 5 yr old thrown in the middle. All girls. Even though I'm younger, can I join the Ibu club?

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from dickgun wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

To Clay Cooper,In the "Encyclopedia of Western Gunfighters" I recently read of a Jim and Clay Cooper who came to NM in 1883 and ranched the Tularosa country.Just curious if your roots go back to that time and place. Since that is personal history feel free to disregard.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Just about the time I hit the "Post" button, I had another thought. Maybe some of you have had some experience with this.A big, heavy, slow-moving slug does a real number on white tails and you can eat right up to the bullet hole! Very little blood shot meat!The ol' .45-70 Gov't, realizing it's limitations, (range, trajectory) is a great round.Bubba

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

BubbaJust make sure you have your hip boots handy....Have a nice Thanksgiving!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Clay and I have points we disagree on, and that's okay! If we all drove Fords, it would be a dreary world.BUT, here's one point we totally agree on.I worked in a gun store for a short while (abt 2 years) and was continually asked, "What's the best caliber for deer?"My standard reply was, "The largest caliber YOU can shoot comfortably."One of my little sales pitches was to break out the reloading manual (Sierra, at that time) and show them the difference between a .270 Win and a 7mm Rem Mag. With comparable bullet weights, the 7mm ballistic gain is at best, slight. If they didn't hand load, I would then drag out a box of each caliber round.I absolutely detest the .30-'06 Spgfld. Does that make it any less the epitomy of "all around"? I don't think so, for the "one rifle" hunter, he can't go wrong with the '06.You go Clay, I'll stand with you on the pulpit of "Bullet Placement" and "Practice" any day!Bubba

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

My Dearest Mr. D. PetzalYou are so funny! HA! HA! HA!Fifty seven!Titanium hip!Opposite side heel crushed!No weight bearing limbs left undamaged! Hypertension (can't get the exercise I used to, ergo, overweight!)I thank my lucky stars I CAN get out of bed!Besides being very pretty, (Ms. Garrett) what I miss is the young, supple skin instead of my sagging exterior. I miss the smoothness instead of this roadmap I have for a face! I miss the muscle tone instead of the turkey wattles!I'm over 50, but not dead, YET!!!!Thank you very much, Mr. P!!!!Bubba(having fun, not angry!)

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from KJ wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Chev Jim, you are truly The Man.

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from Chev Jim wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Ms. Garrett and I used to share a tree stand, but her perfume invariably spooked the deer. So, I told her that we couldn't hunt together any more. I really hated to do it, but while you can always get a Ms. Garrett to sit in a stand with you, the trophy buck of a lifetime only comes by once in a lifetime, and you've got to be ready! You've got to have your priorities straight!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

FischerHuntsIf you going to use a 300 Win Mag on those rodents in Texas, try 130 grain Hornady soft points in it. Crank it out about 3500fps pluss!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

David E. PetzalWhy don't you do a column on the Kaibab Plateau when they closed all hunting?Now that would raise some heads and give the ProHunting the ability to go nuclear with the anti’s!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey David Petzal, so you’re your age?Join us old farts in the IB (Ibuprofen) Club!Military tried to kill me, got kicked in the leg by a horse and gained 75 pounds since I retired. YA YA, I know!

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Nice eye candy...as for recoil this is a matter of opinion.I think most us hunters know our limits if we have been shooting for sometime, and there is no doubt that practice is an important key to hunting success; but knowing how to shoot your gun well to many does not require alot of target practice. I have 3 canadian friends that barely fire a handful of shots before deer season to sight-in, and they get a deer every year for the past 20+ years. All farm boys(that retired from city jobs)and have been around guns all there lives.As for the 25/06 being acceptable for Elk,I don't beleive it a minimum caliber for that animal.Sorry boys, but if you are going for Elk, use as much gun as you can handle with a minimum .270 caliber.oh...and the ghost trick deer make in being/not being seen is quite amazing, and that's what makes hunting them so exciting.

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from Clay Cooepr wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

YooperJackHumane Society on TV last night? What a nutcase! I wish Lara Ingram knew about what happened to the Kaibab Plateau when they closed it to all hunting! She would have nailed that SOB!

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

WAMtnhunterI'm 57 years old, got all the aches and pains described above, but really enjoy hunting. Every time I go to the eye doctor, they get worse. In Feb., I'll have my 6th grandchild. One is definitely southpaw, one maybe. What the hell, I might as well enjoy whatever deer seasons are left and then pass the guns on. I don't hunt the "fish fesces" of Texas, I don't hunt the Rockies, or Sierras I just hunt the massive bucks in the U.P.

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from Michael wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

to FischerHunts:My special lightweight Ruger no 1 25-06 track record so far is 7 one-shot kills on whitetails with 100 gr. corelokts. Meat loss was negligible. Two of the bucks dressed 160+. And yes, it will definitely do a number on coyotes!2 thoughts to Dave Petzal:whitetails ARE uncanny in their ability to disappear (or appear) if you blink.Does Ms. Garrett hunt? Looking at her makes me want to hook some brush.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

UP'erIf an adequate caliber rifle makes one flinch, then one needs to take up basket weaving, quilting, or varmint shooting or some other Nancy-boy pastime. I did not suggest a .25-06 is not an adequate deer rifle. In fact, a .257 Roberts is all the deer rifle most will ever need.I've been practicing for the past 40 years on various types of targets. I've ditched a 10 ga. and .338 Win mag because of recoil, not their adequacy. To each their own. Just be advised that when someone posts BS here, someone will call them on it.

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from FischerHunts wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I used to hunt with a 25-06 until I spent a season in South Texas, where the brush swallows up everything and the shots can be LONG. Buck of your Dreams may appear for only a brief few seconds crossing a 30ft wide sendero hot on the heels of his version of Ms. Garrett. A larger hole makes tracking easier when the fish feces that makes up the ground there sucks up blood like a sponge. You blood trail by poking dirt balls with your finger until you draw blood. A 300 Win Mag makes a fine Deer Rifle. A 25-05 is a good coyote gun. Use enough gun.

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Gotta admit at 59 I feel aches and pains every morning, too. …Too many injuries from 11-years in combat units and five years jumping horses. I actually incurred more injuries from horse competition than my military career. Whatever. I have a deep reverence for my waterbed in my age [aka: The Womb].Whitetails do seem to slip in and out of alternative dimensions at will. I find it strange I vividly recall all the bucks I missed and hunt them over and over again in my memory.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

WAMtnhunterYou missed the point that Clay Cooper, Dave Petzal, Kbhead and Mike Strehlow were trying to make. The lighter the recoil, the more you will practice. The lighter the recoil, the less chance that you'll flinch. That should result in a more accurate shot! At least that's what I took from this discussion.THANKS EVERYONE!

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from Greg wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

If she would I wouldn't know what the hell to do with it!!!!

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from Greg wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

There is an article about deer? Not gonna get much interest in the articles with aphoto like that! I wonder if my wife will let me have one of those for Xmas!!?

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I would suggest a .30-06 over any .25 caliber on elk for the experienced or inexperienced. I don't think 117 - 120 grain bullets offer the mass to provide penetration on large game like elk and moose.Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can kill most anything with most any modern centerfire. I believe that elk bullets start at 150 grains and 165 to 200 grain are ideal to get the combination of mass and velocity. The assumption that a light projectile will penetrate better than a heavier one at similar velocities ignores laws of physics.Get a manly rifle or stay home!

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from Brian T wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Any fool knows that whitetails can't do StarTrek teleportation. They just pop up out of the ground like grouse, elk and turkeys.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

All of the advice ie well taken, thanks everyone! I'll wait until a 25-06 comes around. I might have to spend a little more but it should be worth the extra cost and I've got most of the year to look. My hunting is Michigan Whitetails, I really enjoy that and have no real desire to hunt anywhere else.On another note, there was some moron from the Humane Society on TV last night. They're trying to eliminate hunters donating wild game to food pantries. My world has turned upside down!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Amen, DaveThose over 50 with no pain: (a) have led a sheltered life, (b) don't do much, or (c) are chronic liars.Seven years of Airborne Infantry and 15 more years of less damanding military service coupled with a few nasty car wrecks, a helicopter crash, and a few falls along the way have ensured the survival of chiropractors and the pharmaceutical industry. My wife questions why I just HAVE to deer and elk hunt every year...... Answer: Because I may not be able to next year! Then I'll just fish in the pond and shoot crows and starlings out of the garden. Recently got a new Lab pup. I am looking forward to hunting and with him for the next ten or so years.

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

To Bubba: If you're over 50 years old and don't shriek in pain when you get out of bed in the morning, it's probably because you've died during the night.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I've got another disappearing deer story. Sitting on a ridge maybe twenty five years ago with my friend and hear something coming through the woods like a train wreck... big buck pops over the hill and continues wide open right at us... suddenly he's fifty yards away and sees us. What does he do? Jumps straight up in the air and sticks his front legs out and lays his head flat and slides right in front of us like Pete Rose coming into third. It's completely quiet and my friend says "where did he go?" I say "he's under the leaves right in front of us"... no he isn't, yes he is, no he isn't, yes he is... I know unless there's a tunnel right there he has to be right in front of me but we couldn't see him. We stand up and take a few steps and look around but nothing. Finally we decide he just teleported and laugh and right then he comes out of the ground and scares the crap out of us and runs away. We never fired a shot.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

DON'T THINK IN THE BOX!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I know it’s coming so I’m going to say it now. Why does a person who lacks the ability to shoot believe in making it up in firepower to think they must use a nuke when actually they need to shoot accurately first then work up to the largest cartridge they can handle. I suggest to the new hunters in Alaska, if you going to use a 300 Mag, get a 338 Win Mag instead. If you going to get the hell kicked out of you might as well do it right! Besides, a 30-06 is the best overall choice for the beginner hunter for even Moose. Yes I would suggest a 30-06 over a 25-06 on Elk for the inexperienced.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

David, you went running out of camp like a whipped dog? That’s my kind of weather!!25-06 with a 117 grain bullet will take a deer down just as stone dead as any other rifle! Less kick equals no flinch equals more concentration on the shot and you can reach out just as good as the big magnums. The only real advantage a 30 caliber magnums have is the ability to buck the wind or better put, less wind drift when the wind is up, period! David, you need to get you a 25-06 and go jack rabbit hunting and really tone up your skills!! The 25-06 is one of the best by far cartridges on the market! Best all around choice from youth to Women to extreme shooting. A 120 grain partition Nosler has the steam to take down an Elk! In fact it is the smallest on the recommendation list of cartridges for taking Elk. By the way, a Hornady 130 grain in a 30-06 works fantastic on Mule Deer!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

You must be very careful what you write, 'cause somebody's going to misinterpret it!Shaky, your time of dead day dreaming all day will come soon enough, as will mine also!It's the photo, that I dream of daily, and it's not necessarily because of Ms. Garrett's looks, (though she's awful easy on the eyes!) I miss the exuberance of youth! Getting out of bed and not hurting like I need to get back into bed!Bubba

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Dennis:Thanks for the heads up. I found the M93 22mag on their web site and I'll bet Wal-Mart could even order one.MattIf I saw the Janet Reno picture with anything less than a sixpack in me, I'd probably have to buy a new laptop cause this one's barfed on. Also, if anything comes up with respect Hillary, I think why buy new guns now. They'll be gone within 2 terms.

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Bubba; I also am old, but my daily dream is not of being being dead.

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from Dennis wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey all of you guys that are southpaws like me i just thought of a left handed rifle that is cheap to shoot. It a savage either model 93(22mag) or a model mkII(22LR). I havent used either of them but i have a model 93 on order. Your talking about $200 for them the 93 is slightly more expensive. Maybe Dave knows something about them

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from Matt wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I'm so very sorry, Dave. I don't have a clue in hell what you just wrote about. I was busy staring at two things... I'm pretty sure you know what those things are! My two cents: If you want anyone to read what you write, either open up with a photo of a scantily-clad woman who looks like Janet Reno after a week-long bender, or (preferably, for the sake of man-kind) open with the line "So I was b***h-slapping Hillary Clinton the other day and got to thinking..."

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I have to agree with DP’s basics on 25-06 for big game. I shot for years with a 257 Roberts for deer and varmints, and the cartridge did very well in this role. Upon hunting Montana a season there was no doubt a long, skinny120-grain bullet in 25-cal would take items larger than deer, but it was marginal at best. From that time my big game rifles have always been those cartridges that would throw a slug 140-grains or more.It would seem DP’s experience is the same and likely he uses the 130-grain bullet in his 6.5 Swede.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Jeez, after all these years experience and all this combined intellgence, and you guys don't know? I thought everybody knew! God drops deer out of the sky like rain! The one's he drops on the ground do fine, the one's that hit the pavement splatter a bit. I know you've seen those lying beside the highway.Had a button buck during bonus season (it WAS antlerless!) staring me down in my blind. Pin fell twice on a dud primer. Tried slowly to retract bolt, extractor dropped round just out of reach. Finally dropped the butt of my rifle and the errant round rattled around the action and magazine before finally thumping to the sandy soil of the pop-up floor. Slowly bolted another round down hole and did the "nasty" as the little varmint continued to stare me down! Felt it was my duty to help clean the ignorance gene out of my local deer herd!As far as Ms. Garrett! I may be old, but I ain't DEAD!!! For me at my age, THAT is a "daily" dream!Bubba

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Ms. Garrett certainly makes my tail wag...Yeah, the white-tailed deer is a very special animal. I've hunted most of the major species in North America and still love hunting whitetails. Whitetail bucks never cease to get my heart pumping! And it is comforting to note that I always will be able to afford to hunt this species, unlike some species like wild sheep, grizzly bears and private lands elk. Much of that has gone of of my financial reach in recent years.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

KJ, my size starts with lots of Xs and ends with Ls. When Bass Pro or Cabela's lets me down, I head to Omar the Tent Maker.Yooperjack, a very good point regarding having the same sighting equipment on the 22 and big game weapon. Regarding the LH, RH number of practice repetitions, this is a complex issue. A rare persom may do it but most of us struggle with the left/right dominance issue.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Deader than world peace... excuse me, while I steal this line. Help me.Jimi

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

While the rack pictured above is not B&C huge, it is close enough to perfect for me....I wouldn't mind seeing those hams and backstrap.....

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I beg to differ!! There is a supervisor where I work who is endowed with the uncanny ability to appear out of thin air. And it's always when you least expect it, too. I'd be workin', doin' my thing, then as soon as I turn around, that sumbitch is standing right there, eyeballin' me! Scares the crap out of me every time. It works the other way, too. Say you need his keys to open the supply room or something. The man then disappears and is nowhere to be found. And I know that I'm not the only one here who has witnessed this phenomenon, y'all agree?

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

PbheadWould it make much difference using a RH .22 for target practice? I'm sure I'll never get lucky enough to find a LH .22 or .22WMR. I would like to get one with a scope similar to the scope I would buy for the deer rifle.I can't explain deer camo. I swear that deer change their color to match their surroundings. Even the fawns in the spring are invisible. You can almost step on them unless they're on green grass. If you don't have snow for deer season, you just don't see them unless you hear them first.

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from Gman wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Dave:I climbed 3/4 of the way to the top of one of the Catskills' big peaks yesterday, and did not see Beau Garrett (or a deer).There are no acorns up high this year and the deer have all yarded behind the old farmhouse. So much for high country bucks this year. I am assuming Ms. Garrett will stay off the peak also. Look for her in the laurels in the lowlands.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

There...My brother had a similar experience with a borrowed Remington 7400. On the way to his stand he saw a nice buck, and since he wasn't in his stand yet he hadn't loaded his rifle. Needless to say, the "click" of the firing pin falling spooked the buck.PbHead, what size do you wear? Bass Pro might have something in your size (heh heh...)

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from Dennis wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I know that deer are pretty smart and they can camoflauge themselves really well but they also do some stupid things. My buddies got back for the deer camp last night with a really nice 12point that dressed out a little over 200 pounds. My friend saw him just before dark as he was headed in,the problem was that he was out over 250+ yards and dan was packing his 45-70 and so he didnt want to try for the shot. The buck stayed there while he went back to camp to get his 6.5x55(swedish mauser) and come back. He dropped the buck with one shot(heart and lungs). The problem was the stupid thing fell into the swamp and he had a real fun time getting him out and back to camp. Only decent buck they saw all week but they also got three does. A nice bag of central ontario whitetails

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

So Dave how do you get away with all these comments regarding fine young women? Obviously a bachelor... I was walking through a horse pasture with a muzzle loader once upon a time ducked down so the landowner would not see me (don't ask) and a mule started following much too closely and the next thing I knew I almost stepped on an eight point buck. He bounced once and was obviously disassembled and projected elsewhere because it was a big field and he literally disappeared...

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

A .25-06 will have about 2/3 the kick of a .30-06, shoot flatter, and kill deer just as well. Unless you are an elk, bear, or moose hunter, the .30-06 is more than you need, despite how many of us (me included) hunt deer with them. I've been thinking about a .25-06 myself.As for Dave's tales of deer transporting, etc., I've believed every story I've heard about whitetails since the time in Wyoming when I saw a buck with a rack like a Christmas tree raise his head about 20 yards from me. I didn't know he was there and the grass he was hiding in was about a foot and a half high. When I got to where he'd been, he was gone. I was carrying a camera that day, but I missed him anyway. Deer can vanish, all right. I've always thought they used mirrors, but Dave may be on to something with this transporter theory, although Steve C's cloaker idea is also worth following up.

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from PbHead wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Practice, practice, practice. Work that action either at the range or by dry firing. It takes at least 3,000 repetitions to be able to perform a physical task without thinking. Another case for the 22 rifle action matched to the big game gun.Dave, regarding Ms. Garrett's outfit: Is it appropriate for a Maine tower blind? Does it come in camo patterns? Can I get one in time for Christmas?

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

No wolves in Maine that I know of, but coyotes that are the same size as Rin-Tin-Tin, and they have about the same effect as wolves.As for the .25/06, it's not an exotic cartridge, but it's never been really popular. An '06 would do you fine; it kicks more than the .25/06, but is far more versatile. A .25/06 is for light game; a .30/06 can take on anything. Use any good 150-grain bullet for deer.I did not get a deer in Maine; in fact I went running out of camp like a whipped dog. Logging and a day of torrential rain turned the roads to soup, and with a cold front coming in I was advised to leave now or leave much, much later. Life is not all beer and skittles.

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from Steve C wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

“Mildly retarded” is a term that would only apply to any hunter stupid enough to buy into the theory that a deer is able to tele-transport. However, they do have the ability to cloak when there's a loaded weapon in the vicinity.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Hey Dave:After all the rants in previous posts about staying on subject you interjected Beau Garrett and a movie I'm sure none of us ever heard of?Any I could care less (she's quite pretty but young enough to be my daughter)After all that's been said about the light calibers between you and Clay Cooper, I've got a hair up my butt about buying a left-handed rifle. I really like the Sakos, would love a 25-06, but they seem to be really rare. I found one in 30-06 for a good price in a store near here. Is there a lot of practical difference in ballistics and recoil?I shoot a 94 Winchester with open sights and would love to go with something that I could put a scope on. If I wait for a 25-06, I might not live that long.It sounds like you had a nice trip to Maine. Glad the guy got the buck. Lots of Wolves in Michigan. I think its having an affect on our deer herd. Same in Maine?

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

to B. Cameron: I am merely relating the tale as it was told to me, and from my experience pumps do work better if they are operated smartly, as do bolts and levers and sem-autos.

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from B. Cameron wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

Again with the shotgun bash, Dave? For shame!Yes, in order to get a good eject from an 870, you have to run the slide *back* pretty firmly - but if you're putting one in the chamber and closing the action, you can do it just as fast or slow as you want. Or perhaps I've got the only 870 that allows this?Or, then again, maybe you're bashing the 760/7600? My 760 has chambered at all speeds with nary a hiccup. You have to be firm at the last to make sure the bolt face is seated, but again, never an issue with a slow rack!Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my treestand... it's nap time! Dreaming about deer seems to be the only sure way to see any this week.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 21 weeks ago

I'd write something but I'm meditating on Ms. Beau Garrett...

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