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Petzal: The Great Overbore Conundrum

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October 14, 2008

Petzal: The Great Overbore Conundrum

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

Once upon a time, the worst thing you could say to a rifleman was that
his cartridge of choice was overbore. Today this would be the equivalent
of calling him a Clintonista, or slapping him. Overbore meant that his
7mm Thunderf***er Magnum burned more powder than it could efficiently
use, and was therefore less worthy in the great pantheon of cartridges
than, say, a 7x57, or a .280, or for all I know, a 7x64. It also, by
extension, meant that the person who shot a 7mm Thunderf***er magnum was
unworthy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, or was just a squirrelheaded
son of a bitch.

There were other concerns. Huge cartridges that used gobs of powder
burned out their barrels quicker, cost more to shoot, and were more
difficult to shoot than non-overbore rounds. This is all quite true. But
there's another side. Sometimes, you want a bullet to go much faster
than a standard cartridge can manage, and the only way you can do it is
by burning lots and lots of powder. It's the same in automobiles; if you
want more speed, you need proportionately huge increases in horsepower.

An example: My favorite .338 load right now is a 225-grain Barnes XXX
backed by 72 grains of RelodeR 19*. This gives me 2,750 fps, which is
enough for any shot inside 300 yards. If I anticipate a longer shot than
that, I can go to a .338 Remington Ultra Mag, which will gulp down 93
grains of RelodeR 22*, which drives the same bullet at 3,020, making
hitting at long range somewhat easier. It is, as even the dullest among
you can see, a whopping increase in powder for a comparatively small
increase in velocity. But there you are.

Overbore, who cares? They are very useful cartridges under some
conditions, and even now, as you read this, people are making RelodeR
powder and new barrels whether we want them to or not.

*These loads are safe in my guns, but they may blow you into the next
world. That is your concern. I assume no liability from now until the
end of recorded time.

Comments (67)

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from ishawooa wrote 5 years 25 weeks ago

By the way before some of you guys jump my case about the long range shooting whys and whynots, remember that I am the guy who once suggested we all junk everything but our M-94s in .30-30. That rifle and open sights would be the only gun allowed for anything anywhere. Oddly enough no one wants to go along with me on that idea. It would put the hunt back in hunting. Perhaps we should remember back to 1894 or so when that combination was considered to be a "super" gun for radical small bore long range shooters utilizing a powder that did not produce copious amounts of smoke.

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from ishawooa wrote 5 years 25 weeks ago

A surgeon from Memphis hunted with my outfitter neighbor this past week. The doc is in his late 50's and has previous heart surgery and presently suffers from continuing cardiovascular problems. He managed to use the outfitter's Super 7 mm much like the ones you guys discussed and a lot like mine to make a one shot kill on a 310 bull at 670 yards. While they were away to fetch the pack horses Mr. Griz showed up. The bear refused to leave. The next day the outfitter brought in a game warden who also could not convince the grizzley to forgo the elk. The damned bear would lay down on the elk carcus while growling and popping its teeth at the human aggressors. The good doctor had to return home without his trophy but with many pictures and lots of memories. We will attempt to locate the head and horns next spring and sent it to him.The kid and I never fired our 7 mm mega-macho-mean-miracle-mileawaykilling magnum or the .338 Win Mag at an elk. We never found anything resembling a decent bull in the general Wyoming season. Perhaps we will use it on a nice mulie next week in an attempt to break the kid's 572 yard one shot kill performed last year. Long range shooting sure is fun if you know what you are about and have the proper equipment.By the way a guy from Mississippi was with the earlier mentioned doctor and shot his decent 5 x 6 bull using a 6.5 x .284 with an Accubond. Missed the first two shots and killed it with the third at 35 yards, yep 35 not 350.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Thats not overbore, thats what was needed!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

The Great Overbore Conundrum?That 8 point buck I shot last Saturday evening with my 50 Cal Encore with a Hornady .429 diameter 44 cal 265 grain soft point at around 2250 fps never knew what hit him.

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Lowgun:Thank you. I really don't think most 'overbore' hunters are power crazy at heart; they're just going for any edge they can get. Their lives don't let them really get ready for the season, but any hunting is better than none. So they hope that their $2,000 Weatherby rifle, $1000 scope, and $800 worth of Scent Lok clothing do for them what their too few days spent in the field cannot. The old days are gone forever.

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from Mark(A) wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

My big cartridges do their job terrifically. I just hate gettin' all that copper and powder out at the end of day at the range.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

What's that you say about the earrings?

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Dr. Ralph,Jack lighters and other game thieves suck. Way too much poaching going on still.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I think the .44 Mag is responsible for about 90% of my hearing loss... instant bell ringer.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I forgot to mention that touching off the 7mm whateveritis can be fun, but not too often, as "overbore" has it's own checks and balances system - like knife hunting for hogs.It's one thing to touch off a big bang at a bench. Quite another to be draped across a rock at an weird angle. A few centimeters off in stock mount or face position and you will remember that shot for a while! And perhaps the worst aspect of the big guns is that they don't get used in practice enough, leading to a world of abuse.Hunting aside, there is something about making all that noise that is a joy of it's own. Like a drum set and a kid. I had a .44 Mag pistol for a while, and that was probably the best part of owning it. Huge, heavy, annoying to others at the range, expensive to buy and operate (just like the Loudenboomer). Best part though was it held it's resale value! Sometimes I miss it, but not too much...

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

If it's legal it's hunting. Shoot them from 350 if you can or 1,000 yards if you're really that good. Just be honest with yourself about your abilities.The midnight bandits are the ones that make me mad... you try to pattern a deer you know good and well only spends fifteen minutes a day moving during shooting hours and someone blasts him in a field with a spotlight. It's not fair to the other hunters or the animal.I have to agree with Mo Jim about the dumbed down archery season deer. When that first gun goes off everything changes, and public hunting lands are tough all the time. Any deer that makes it five years with an army canvassing the woods every day is no fool.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Eyeball:I think you have it nailed.Having that club in the bag, that reaches out 300 yards or more, gives them more options, more "one chances". I can't imagine taking a shot into another time zone, but you're right about the mentality.Fair Chase, that should always be the standard, based on the quarry and the terrain. Some see the long shot as a test of skill, in fact most of us see accuracy as a virtue. It's the yardage that brings the debate.

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from Devil_Dog wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

It seems the issue here isn't that some hunters look for a little more ass in their weapon of choice, it's that others use these big guns for the wrong reasons.Having just started hunting the swamps of coastal North Carolina, I'm trading out my .270 for 12 ga. slug gun. I can't really see more that 50 yards anywhere, and trying to follow a blood trail through the thickets is almost impossible. I want a gun that makes a .70 caliber hole in one side and a 1.5 inch hole on the other leave a very heavy, and very short trail to follow.Now if you're talking about an inexperienced shooter thinking a Thunderf**ker magnum will replace a lack of skill, that's a problem. And I think that the shooting industry is partly to blame here because of the way they hype, promote, and advertise these cartridges.Third, and finally, is the shooter who has put the time and effort into learning these big guns. They may be able to frequently kill game at absurd ranges, but they're not hunting. To me it's the most annoying of the situations because these shooters could have put the time into learing how to be a better hunter and get a closer shot. If you want to shoot something at 500+ yards, shoot paper. If you want to go hunting, respect your quarry enough to give him a fighting chance and limit your shots to ranges where the animal has the ability to detect you and become alarmed.

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Lowgun:I stand corrected about trap and skeet with live birds. Incipient stages of Alzheimer's, I guess.What is sporting is in the hunter. If you are a country boy, farmer, or rancher, and know where every deer on your property is at any given time of the day, you may feel that a 7mm Thunder****** makes things a little too easy for you. And if you can spend weeks in the woods, you may be able to pattern that five year old buck with all those antlers and let the spikers walk.On the other hand, if you are a once a year hunter who hunts public land after scouting it with Google maps, and share the woods with dozens (or thousands) of other hunters when you finally get away from work long enough to put on orange, you need every advantage. To that guy (and in the New Millenium that guy is probably the majority of hunters), any deer is a good one, and a decent rack is a gift from above. And that guy doesn't want to pass up a shot on the last hour of his last day hunting of the year because the deer is 300 yards away.You know who you are. Me, I'm for hunting, and anyone who does it safely and legally is all right whether he uses a spear or a .338 Eargensplitten Loudenboomer with a Swarvsleicarofski laser rangefinder scope.

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from O Garcia wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

some of our revered "standards" should really have been "magnums" in the first place. The .270 is one example. It operates at higher chamber pressure than even the 7mm Rem. Mag. (65,000 PSI versus 61,000 for the Remington) and pressure-wise is right up there with .300 magnums (whether Winchester, Weatherby or WSM), and at the time of its introduction was credited with velocities that were definitely "magnum-like". Even with the slower published velocities today, the .270 should still be a magnum. The only things that prevented it from being called that were: 1) it was the first .270 of its kind 2) it didn't have a belt.

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from Michael wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I contemplated building a .257 Eargesplittenloudenboomer for a wheat field rifle, but find a 25-06 does nicely as far as my middle aged ability will allow. Besides, I prefer to tenderize my venison AFTER I shoot it.

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from jersey pig wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

i'm switching from hunting whitetail in northern maine where the cover was thick at times with pine. as such i used a remington 750 chambered in .35 whelen. this year i am switching to farm hunting in ny state where the shots will be at a greater distance.my question is: would a 7mm thunderf----r provide the excessive knock down i seek at a longer distance? and is assblaster introducing any new rounds soon, like a 375 dinoblaster or a 338 dislocator?

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Shane,I used to be a bow fanatic until my shoulder gave out. Now that I hunt strickly rifle I long for the advantage of getting first crack at the dumbed-down deer I used to hunt. Don't get me wrong stealth, concealment and camo is a bow hunting must. But really, after the bow hunters leave the woods many have really stunk it up for the shooters. No wonder the shots are longer.

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from Shane wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Good to see many commenting on the questionableness of a "hunt" that ends in a 300 yard shot. Maybe in Africa that is acceptable. But even on the dark continent, you have to take one shot at under 100 to make it into my legit hunter book. Sure i use rifles for some occasions (mountain stalks, large or scary game, etc.), but my shots are still under a football field. But in most of the nation's deer woods? I think you suck if you can't take one well under 30 with a bow. And no matter what you think of that, there is no way to rationalize that you snipers are better hunters than the guys that are arrowing 250 pound monsters at 10 paces. Until you pull it off yourself, you're just not on that level. Bottom line.

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from r wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

we do that in Florida. Especially up in north FL where dog hunting is popular and you don't have much development around. The hogs are thick and people catch and feed em for food all the time. You can worm em that way also by feeding them a can of copenhagen snuff. No lie. They eat it up and it rids them of worms. Feed em corn and dinner scraps for a few months and they go tame and taste better.

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from RJ wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I new some guys in FLA. who used to go for wild hogs in the groves, they used about 10-12 dogs to run them down, and pin them, they would then tie up the hogs and bring them back to their property were they would grain feed them for a while " cause you don't know what they are a eaten' in the groves" then they would slaughter them. True story.

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from Eric wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Dave,Why the Ultramag?? I thought you were a Weatherby guy!!!

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from PbHead wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

When I want a primitive hunt, I go with my inlaws.

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from ryan wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Mississippi and Louisiana now allow the use of any centerfire rifle designed before 1890 including the H&R handi-rifle in 45-70 with iron sights for primitive season. I don't want to see some dude with an electronic ignition TC and his leupold 12x scope on my primitive hunt! 45-70, iron sights.Actually, why dont they allow 30-30 win with iron sights?The loopholes have made primitive weapons not so primitive.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I haven't seen ol' "Ain't Right" since he went hog hunting with that Rambo knife of his....:-)To each his own.

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from Milton Burton wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Gimmie a .323 Remchester Super-snorter every time! Down my way real men even hunt quail with 'em, eschewing shotguns as faggy. Great for flusing birds, the Super-snorter is so fast you don't have to lead.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

BlueOx,Visit www.floridahuntingoutfitter.com"Outwest Farms" is the nameFrom the website:----Wild Boar Hunting FloridaThis is by far the most sought after experience I offer. My hunts are conducted at your preference, whether it be from a swamp buggy, cruising around the mash trying to kick one up with redbone hounds, from a tree stand at a feeder with a bow, or for a more adrenaline seeker, a bull dog and a knife or spear.----Let me know how that works out...Notice that "mash" instead of "marsh"...A spear vs. hog....Right tool for the job indeed....

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Blue Ox-I have an acquaintance who does that dog and knife thing with wild hogs. We have plenty of thosein Texas. The general consensus onthis guy around town is: "He ain'twrapped to tight." It may be a real "sporting" kind of hunt, but a lot of dogs get maimed and killed, an occasionally some "hunters" also. I'll stick with the '06 or .375 Winchester for anything with teeth like a wild hog.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

My muzzleloader is way less primitive than my Winchester 94 30-30. So are they making the new Model 70 in 7mm Thunderf***er? I've decided to join the 700 yard club and want to do it in style...

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from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I'd like to have a go at the whole 'dog & knife' boar hunt deal!

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from shotgun red wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

naw Lowgun, I think you bout covered it. they say that modern bow and muzzyloader huntin is "primitive" nowadays, THE HELL IT IS!

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Eyeball: Skeet shooting never involved live birds - trap did, but not skeet...I love the "It Ain't Hunting If...." stuff. I secretly agree, but the open door is just irresistable: SMILE!So you don't use a metallic cartridge gun do ya? Damn "ready to use ammo" is the end of fair chase hunting I tell you! I saw a brochure today from an outfitter in Okeechobee that offers a "Dog and Knife" wild hog hunt - Now, SON! That's a hunt don't ya know!(Let me know how that works out if'n anyone has been on one of them! That's gotta be a "Darrel" good time, buddy! I'm thinking the gator hunt could be a gas too, but I'm thinkin I would want the gun for that one...)Did they have these conversations when smokeless powder was invented?1. No optical sighting devices - real hunters don't need glass! If you can't smell your quarry you haven't done the stalk properly!2. If'n the gun doesn't have a ram rod, well, it's automated meat harvesting, not hunting. Real hunting went away when they created metallic cartridges I tell you!3.If'n a shot is taken at ranges greater than musket ball range, then the guy is not really a hunter, just a shooter.4. A real hunter will sharpen a stick and poke that ole Moose in the belly. Not that many around anymore though...the hunters I mean.Naw, just kidding - I think I'll take this here REAL hunting rifle-an '06 of course (with cryo-treated precision machined, air gauged - hand and fire lapped barrel ) - and put that new 180gr-super ballistic point- hollow point- Nosler partition-CNC milled-boattailed bullet handloaded with digital scale accuracy with 40.32 grains of Vargetter 199 (a REAL hunters round) in some varmit. Of course if'n I do plug him from a long way off (got that Leupold VX-L mounted up there), why, I'll be sure and relate that feat of uncommon ability over an adult beverage. Several times a night. Now, THAT'S real hunting!Bowhunting is ruined by that damned compound bow crap and metal broadheads..and muzzle-loading ain't muzzle-loading if'n the powder is in a pellet and a Win 209 sets it off...and don't even get me started on sabot projectiles (damn French words and all)....Did I leave anyone out?Trying to include ever'one...stirring the pot...:-)

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from Charlie Milliron wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

It's just food for thought and food for argument. I love to sit in a tree and wait for Bambi to waddle to within 25 yards(bow range) and I love to "DAD"........"Dial And Dust" another varmint(whitetails is varmints you know!!!)at 400,500,600 yards or any increment you want to put in there(for those of you who rag on the folks who use modern technology to do this, 437 yards can be dialed in to the equipment!)and I see the arguments espoused here from both sides. I love to hunt. I love to shoot. And when the shooting crosses over into the hunting, I have no problem as long as the shooter is proficient! Don't shoot a bull in the ass with a BB gun and expect him to fall!! Shot placement and knowing what you're doing with equipment(bullets and rifles in known effective chamberings) goes a long way to dispatching game in an ethical manner! Have respect for the animal you are shooting whether it's a ground squirrel or a damn elephant! Dispatch them as qquickly and as painlessly as possible. I'd rather teetotally miss anything than wound it and therefore that's why I choose to know what my rifles and WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF before pulling the trigger!!...........Last thing I shot with the 7mm whatever the author was talking about was a doe at 407 yards. Friend of mine asked if I could "hit that deer" in the logging road. I said, "Yes I can and it will be hit 4" under it's head in the neck." He said,"I'll clean it if you kill it!" No problem! He had to clean the doe with the neck blown away 4" under it's head. Could I do it again? YES. Would I do it again? YES. But I get a thrill from that doe walking into an acorn patch 20 yards from a treestand and never knowing danger was around until a 100 grain Spitfire broadhead penetrates all the way through!!What bothers me the most about some hunters is that they'd shoot at any deer they saw with a 30-30 or 30-06 or even an M1 in 30 Carbine at ridicoulous distance just becasuse "the Army used them so they must be good!"...........And they may actually hit one and wound it only to go die a slow and painful death!! Sorry for the rant! Charlie (GHD)

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Bernie Kuntz,I believe I've read the same article your speaking of. I've also seen another good visual example of differences between acceptable and overbore cartriges for folks (like me) who don't own a crono. If you have an old bed sheet, hang it up and stand a few yards back, about the same distance as you'd have your crono, and shoot at it with your standard deer rifle, say a 30-06. Take a look at the bullet hole and the black specks around it (the unburt powder). Then do the same with say a 300 Wby and compare the amount of black specks of unburnt powder between the two. Thats overbore.

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from Will Becker wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

David, you can pi** on little Johnny's shoes,or anyone who upholds slick Willy. As for the thunderf***r,I say whatever a man wants to shoot.

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from james ti wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

david, i think you pi**sed on johnnydawson's shoes with your talk of the great white liar and his oppressive manwife! way to go! keep it up. can we see him cry now?

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from Ryan wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Clay,I have a NEF 45-70. 7 lbs rifle with a round that could kill a stegasaurus at close range. Take the butt plate off and plug a plexiglass guitar slide with a cork, cut the cork off off even. Roll clear tape at an agle over the slide and past it to create a long tube. Drop it in the back and fill it with #6 heavy shot. Cut it all off at the back of the stock, pack the void spaces with paper towel and replace the butt. Then throw on a slip on limbsaver pad. You just added about a pound to the rifle which makes a big difference and the limbsaver spreads out the shock. You can also get a barrel weight if you want, but it looks dumb so I left it off. It goes from kicking like a .300 weatherby to about a .308. Also, the 405 grain kicks way less than the nifty hornadys in 350gr and super velocities. At iron sight ranges, velocity and drop dont matter and Bambi's dad is turned into dinner.

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from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

So if Assblaster arms puts out a commercial and shows some poor bastard gettin blown right off his shooting stool, I imagine they'd have a catchy tune...I can hear AC/DC singing it right now:"You've been... THUNDERF***ED!!"

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I was once good friends with a guy who would set up a tripod stand on a farm field where the deer would hang out. A month or so before hunting season he actually put flags up in the field, sort of like a golf driving range would have, denoting 200, 300, etc. yards, all the way to 800. He used the flags both for range estimation and to see what the wind was doing way out there. Up in the tripod he had three rifles; a .270 sighted in at 200 yards, a 7mm Magnum sighted at 400, and a .300 Win Mag sighted in for somewhere near the horizon, all loaded with his own slippery bullet handloads. His publicly stated ambition was to kill a deer at a half-mile. He never did (I don't think he ever got a shot), but he got his share of deer at closer ranges. I wouldn't call what he did hunting, but he was so studious about it and so disciplined about his marksmanship that you couldn't really put him down for it. In the old days trap and skeet shooters shot real birds; you could probably call what my friend does live target shooting, with the deer as the bullseye and the venison as the prize. And I don't think he ever gave a rip about whether his barrels would last 500 rounds or 5000. I haven't seen him in years, but he was the kind of guy that a 28" barreled Lazzeroni in 7mm Thunderwhatever is made for.

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from z41 wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Words can be like rifle calibers. Some are overbore capacity ohers are sweet and really deliver the goods. Overbore words hard on the ears, even if they are just read. A good wordsmith conveys thoughts with just the right word, like a clean cut with a sharp knief.A "proper word at the right time is like an apple of gold in a setting of silver."

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I still have copies of a technical article from Precision Shooting magazine in 2003, written by John Dustin, that explores in great detail this phenomenon of over-bore capacity.In summary, when you are burning one grain of powder to gain 10 fps of velocity, things are a little nutty. These mammoth cartridges require 26" barrels, muzzle brakes and too-heavy rifles. To hell with the ultras.Real hunters don't shoot at big game animals 700 yards distant. Ethical hunting includes stalking to within reasonable rifle range--something many of today's over-equipped and underskilled "hunters" find foreign.

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from johnnydawson wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

You have a problem with Bill Clinton? He left George W. with a 300 billion dollar budget surpulus. Now we have a budget DEFICIT in the trillions. Ok, Dave, rag on Clinton all you want. But to avoid being a hypocrite, would you mind please paying off my share of the national debt?

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from Beekeeper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Clay,I'll one up you on recoil. Try a 45/70 round in a New England Arms Handi-Rifle. Ouch! I will give you style points for the steel buttplate on the #3. Used to have a #3 in .375 Winchester. Using the 235 grain Speer Semi Spitzer in hunting loads it would get your attention from the bench.

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from Olsingleshot wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Putting the right bullet in the right spot is far more important than speed or size of bullets. Match your bullet to the speed of your round, barrel twist and the size of the game. Big and magnums are not always the answer.

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from SilverArrow wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

C'mon Dave, REALLY go for it! Cram a full hundred grains of the aforementioned powder into your case, add 4" to the barrel and get up to Mach 3! Imagine the boys' faces when they see that Chrony register almost 3400fps for a .338! A true half-mile shooting rifle for sure! Mach (bleepin) 3 or bust! We don't need no ScentBlocker clothes, no stinkin camouflage, no we don't need none of that stuff! Just give us the Mach 3 version of the ThunderF***r Magnum and point us to the nearest high-fence elk ranch! No stalking, no treestands, no problem! Mach 3 baby!Oh, just one little request? Don't call what you do with one of those damnable things 'Hunting' because it isn't!SA

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from Scott in Southern Illinois wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

This is an awesome thread! I can see the commercial now on Wednesday Night at the Range: (cue heavy metal/Sly Stone Funk music, irritatingly typical in today's hunting video) AssBlaster Technologies introduces the 7mm ThunderF****r Magnum (cue hot chick holding and firing the rifle in a bikini ala Sarah Palin). Jim Scoutten's voice states "the all-new ThunderF****r Magnum is ideal for taking extremely dangerous game at any distance. Just point and shoot. As your PH lases your bull, the AssBlaster Technologies laser-guided bullet will seek and destroy its target post haste. Get yours today! Shoot straight, shoot often, and, share your sport!"

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Unless something better than smokeless powder is invented, the 7mm Thunder****** has pretty much been invented. Check out this link.http://lazzeroni.com/ct_lacart.htmI admit to never having held a Lazzeroni rifle in my hands, let alone firing one. But I think we've just about hit the max here. Anything that shoots faster than these will need fire-and-forget technology. A .416 that shoots almost point blank to 400 yards? You'd have to buy your Lead Sled a Lead Sled!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Ruger #3 45-70 that is!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

The best thing and only good thing about the 7mm Rem Mag is its empty brass? It makes darn good 338 Win Mag cases, just punch the neck out and I also use 300 Win Mag cases also! Now a 264 Win Mag? O’so sweet out before its time, just needs a better barrel!You want to really try something? Try a Ruger #3 loaded at 458 Win Mag velocities!!! Nothing kicks harder than a 3½ 12 gauge!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

7mm Rem Mag is best with light weight bullets for open country. Whatever you can do with bullet weights over 162, I can do better with my 30-06!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Dick McplentyThe best Moose kill I ever witnessed was a kid with a 30-06 shooting 180 grain Remington’s!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

.338 Remington Ultra Mag, which will gulp down 93 grains of RelodeR 22*, which drives the same bullet at 3,020?David, I can do that with my 338 Win Mag, 72 grains IMR4350 behind a Hornady 225 grain soft point @ 3083fps. And yes, I’ve watched a many including my Bullwinkle’s bight the dust as if they were hit by a 460 Weatherby Mag.Is the .338 Remington Ultra Mag over bore, no.Just over cartridge!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

.338 Remington Ultra Mag, which will gulp down 93 grains of RelodeR 22*, which drives the same bullet at 3,020?You got to be kidding!I’m shooting a 225 grain Hornady out of my 338 Win Mag with 72 grains of IMR4350 and doing that and it knocks any Moose’s $ick in the dirt just fine!Overbore .338 Remington Ultra Mag?How about over cartridge!

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Without the 7mm rem mag,there wouldn't be any magnums for those who can't handle real magnums.With the advent of range finders turrets and dot reticles,I could care less about magnum anything. I've yet to see a barnes x stay inside an elk inside of 750 yards,using the various 06 based cartridges..

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from Rod McPhee wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Dave, this was a very irresponsible article for you to write. You created a sweet name for a cartridge which does not exist. Now a bunch of people are going to build custom 7mm Thunderf***er Magnums with non standard chambers and its only a matter of time before someone blows his head clean off with a sloppy chambered thunderf***ker. Next time please have the courtesy to include chamber specs. ;)

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Dave I don't think your loading data for the 338 is out of line at all unless the Triple X's bearing surface is that much greater than the partition.

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from jersey pig wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

i'm very interested in seeing the promotional material and the advertsing graphics on the boxes of 7mm thunderf****r magnum. the potential is almost unlimited.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Yeah eyeball I just don't go along with the BS about pushing tiny bullets faster to kill bigger game. Bigger is what works up close. Just ask your wife...

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from Scrap5000 wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

I just ate a big plate of beans so I can show off my Thunderf***er magnum...but when it lets loose it opens up a lot bigger than 7mm...!

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

At least Dave has his head on straight in this respect; you up velocity for the purpose of achieving flatter trajectory and less wind drift so that you can shoot animals more easily at somewhat longer ranges. If he had said, "But there are times when a 225 grain bullet out of a .338 just ain't POWERFUL enough to kill something as dead as it needs to be. THEN I load up the same bullet 250 fps faster, and the animals fall down DRT," we could have had a real good debate. If you want greater range, go faster. If you want greater killing power, go bigger.

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from Ryan wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

No, since the Thunderf***er drops 0.0002 less than the 30-06 at 300, it is more "accurate". Well worth shoulder surgury and Belltone hearing aids later in life. When you shoot the deer in the ass at 900 yards(as your shot will be off from the recoil), its guts will fly out at the speed of light. Also, when your retinas fall off it will have been worth it. I mean, if you had shot 0.0002 inches higher with your 06 the deer would have laughed at you then farted in your face right?I'm going to go kill Bambi's dad with my 7mm-08 and a heart/lung shot now. Excuse me.

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Blue Ox,The earsplitten loudenboomer was developed to drive squirt gun shooters off the benchrest range. It really has no practical balistics past 600 yards. The 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum, as previously stated,is a creation of AssBlaster Arms, and is not only viable into the next zip code, will reliably knock the unfortunate shooter off his shooting stool, and at least across one county line. Advocates of the 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum, also developed the "one shot zero technique."

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from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Is the thunderf***er chambered for the same rounds as the earsplitten loudenboomer?

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Nobody is gonna call me a Clintonista, or a squirrelheaded son of a bitch. A .30-'06 with a 165 gr. Nosler, zeroed at 200 yds.has a nine inch drop and plenty ofstuff left at 300 yds. to kill anything short of a moose or the big bears. For moose, or big bears, the .338 Win. Mag. or .375 H&H Mag. are more than adaquate, possibly a bit "overbore", but who cares with something big and mean enough to put you in a world of hurt? Who needs a 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum, the animal will be just as dead if the shooter places the bullet right. BTW, a .338 Win Mag with a 215 gr. SBT zeroed at 200 yds. also has a 9" drop at 300 yds. IMHO, anyone who cannot get within 300 yds.of their chosen quarry is not a hunter, he is an optimistic artilaryman!

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from KJ wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Ryan,The 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum is a creation of AssBlaster Arms. It is a smaller version of the .300 Lightning Sh***er. I'd suggest you google "thunderf***er" and see what comes up.

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from Ryan wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Does anybody know where I can pick up a 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

First you tell us the .338 or reasonable facsimile is the perfect all around gun... now you're pretty much advocating shooting at ranges beyond 300 yards. You might as well just go ahead and become the new spokesmodel for the .338 Lapua Magnum. Hell it penetrates body armour at over 1,000 yards. No wonder I didn't see your picture at Winchester's web site where they invited a group of so called gun writers to tour their new factory. Of course Bodinson and Carmichel were the only one's I recognized and you were probably in Africa... love you Dave.

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from ishawooa wrote 5 years 25 weeks ago

By the way before some of you guys jump my case about the long range shooting whys and whynots, remember that I am the guy who once suggested we all junk everything but our M-94s in .30-30. That rifle and open sights would be the only gun allowed for anything anywhere. Oddly enough no one wants to go along with me on that idea. It would put the hunt back in hunting. Perhaps we should remember back to 1894 or so when that combination was considered to be a "super" gun for radical small bore long range shooters utilizing a powder that did not produce copious amounts of smoke.

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from ishawooa wrote 5 years 25 weeks ago

A surgeon from Memphis hunted with my outfitter neighbor this past week. The doc is in his late 50's and has previous heart surgery and presently suffers from continuing cardiovascular problems. He managed to use the outfitter's Super 7 mm much like the ones you guys discussed and a lot like mine to make a one shot kill on a 310 bull at 670 yards. While they were away to fetch the pack horses Mr. Griz showed up. The bear refused to leave. The next day the outfitter brought in a game warden who also could not convince the grizzley to forgo the elk. The damned bear would lay down on the elk carcus while growling and popping its teeth at the human aggressors. The good doctor had to return home without his trophy but with many pictures and lots of memories. We will attempt to locate the head and horns next spring and sent it to him.The kid and I never fired our 7 mm mega-macho-mean-miracle-mileawaykilling magnum or the .338 Win Mag at an elk. We never found anything resembling a decent bull in the general Wyoming season. Perhaps we will use it on a nice mulie next week in an attempt to break the kid's 572 yard one shot kill performed last year. Long range shooting sure is fun if you know what you are about and have the proper equipment.By the way a guy from Mississippi was with the earlier mentioned doctor and shot his decent 5 x 6 bull using a 6.5 x .284 with an Accubond. Missed the first two shots and killed it with the third at 35 yards, yep 35 not 350.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Thats not overbore, thats what was needed!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

The Great Overbore Conundrum?That 8 point buck I shot last Saturday evening with my 50 Cal Encore with a Hornady .429 diameter 44 cal 265 grain soft point at around 2250 fps never knew what hit him.

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Lowgun:Thank you. I really don't think most 'overbore' hunters are power crazy at heart; they're just going for any edge they can get. Their lives don't let them really get ready for the season, but any hunting is better than none. So they hope that their $2,000 Weatherby rifle, $1000 scope, and $800 worth of Scent Lok clothing do for them what their too few days spent in the field cannot. The old days are gone forever.

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from Mark(A) wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

My big cartridges do their job terrifically. I just hate gettin' all that copper and powder out at the end of day at the range.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

What's that you say about the earrings?

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Dr. Ralph,Jack lighters and other game thieves suck. Way too much poaching going on still.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I think the .44 Mag is responsible for about 90% of my hearing loss... instant bell ringer.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I forgot to mention that touching off the 7mm whateveritis can be fun, but not too often, as "overbore" has it's own checks and balances system - like knife hunting for hogs.It's one thing to touch off a big bang at a bench. Quite another to be draped across a rock at an weird angle. A few centimeters off in stock mount or face position and you will remember that shot for a while! And perhaps the worst aspect of the big guns is that they don't get used in practice enough, leading to a world of abuse.Hunting aside, there is something about making all that noise that is a joy of it's own. Like a drum set and a kid. I had a .44 Mag pistol for a while, and that was probably the best part of owning it. Huge, heavy, annoying to others at the range, expensive to buy and operate (just like the Loudenboomer). Best part though was it held it's resale value! Sometimes I miss it, but not too much...

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

If it's legal it's hunting. Shoot them from 350 if you can or 1,000 yards if you're really that good. Just be honest with yourself about your abilities.The midnight bandits are the ones that make me mad... you try to pattern a deer you know good and well only spends fifteen minutes a day moving during shooting hours and someone blasts him in a field with a spotlight. It's not fair to the other hunters or the animal.I have to agree with Mo Jim about the dumbed down archery season deer. When that first gun goes off everything changes, and public hunting lands are tough all the time. Any deer that makes it five years with an army canvassing the woods every day is no fool.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Eyeball:I think you have it nailed.Having that club in the bag, that reaches out 300 yards or more, gives them more options, more "one chances". I can't imagine taking a shot into another time zone, but you're right about the mentality.Fair Chase, that should always be the standard, based on the quarry and the terrain. Some see the long shot as a test of skill, in fact most of us see accuracy as a virtue. It's the yardage that brings the debate.

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from Devil_Dog wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

It seems the issue here isn't that some hunters look for a little more ass in their weapon of choice, it's that others use these big guns for the wrong reasons.Having just started hunting the swamps of coastal North Carolina, I'm trading out my .270 for 12 ga. slug gun. I can't really see more that 50 yards anywhere, and trying to follow a blood trail through the thickets is almost impossible. I want a gun that makes a .70 caliber hole in one side and a 1.5 inch hole on the other leave a very heavy, and very short trail to follow.Now if you're talking about an inexperienced shooter thinking a Thunderf**ker magnum will replace a lack of skill, that's a problem. And I think that the shooting industry is partly to blame here because of the way they hype, promote, and advertise these cartridges.Third, and finally, is the shooter who has put the time and effort into learning these big guns. They may be able to frequently kill game at absurd ranges, but they're not hunting. To me it's the most annoying of the situations because these shooters could have put the time into learing how to be a better hunter and get a closer shot. If you want to shoot something at 500+ yards, shoot paper. If you want to go hunting, respect your quarry enough to give him a fighting chance and limit your shots to ranges where the animal has the ability to detect you and become alarmed.

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Lowgun:I stand corrected about trap and skeet with live birds. Incipient stages of Alzheimer's, I guess.What is sporting is in the hunter. If you are a country boy, farmer, or rancher, and know where every deer on your property is at any given time of the day, you may feel that a 7mm Thunder****** makes things a little too easy for you. And if you can spend weeks in the woods, you may be able to pattern that five year old buck with all those antlers and let the spikers walk.On the other hand, if you are a once a year hunter who hunts public land after scouting it with Google maps, and share the woods with dozens (or thousands) of other hunters when you finally get away from work long enough to put on orange, you need every advantage. To that guy (and in the New Millenium that guy is probably the majority of hunters), any deer is a good one, and a decent rack is a gift from above. And that guy doesn't want to pass up a shot on the last hour of his last day hunting of the year because the deer is 300 yards away.You know who you are. Me, I'm for hunting, and anyone who does it safely and legally is all right whether he uses a spear or a .338 Eargensplitten Loudenboomer with a Swarvsleicarofski laser rangefinder scope.

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from O Garcia wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

some of our revered "standards" should really have been "magnums" in the first place. The .270 is one example. It operates at higher chamber pressure than even the 7mm Rem. Mag. (65,000 PSI versus 61,000 for the Remington) and pressure-wise is right up there with .300 magnums (whether Winchester, Weatherby or WSM), and at the time of its introduction was credited with velocities that were definitely "magnum-like". Even with the slower published velocities today, the .270 should still be a magnum. The only things that prevented it from being called that were: 1) it was the first .270 of its kind 2) it didn't have a belt.

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from Michael wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I contemplated building a .257 Eargesplittenloudenboomer for a wheat field rifle, but find a 25-06 does nicely as far as my middle aged ability will allow. Besides, I prefer to tenderize my venison AFTER I shoot it.

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from jersey pig wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

i'm switching from hunting whitetail in northern maine where the cover was thick at times with pine. as such i used a remington 750 chambered in .35 whelen. this year i am switching to farm hunting in ny state where the shots will be at a greater distance.my question is: would a 7mm thunderf----r provide the excessive knock down i seek at a longer distance? and is assblaster introducing any new rounds soon, like a 375 dinoblaster or a 338 dislocator?

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Shane,I used to be a bow fanatic until my shoulder gave out. Now that I hunt strickly rifle I long for the advantage of getting first crack at the dumbed-down deer I used to hunt. Don't get me wrong stealth, concealment and camo is a bow hunting must. But really, after the bow hunters leave the woods many have really stunk it up for the shooters. No wonder the shots are longer.

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from Shane wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Good to see many commenting on the questionableness of a "hunt" that ends in a 300 yard shot. Maybe in Africa that is acceptable. But even on the dark continent, you have to take one shot at under 100 to make it into my legit hunter book. Sure i use rifles for some occasions (mountain stalks, large or scary game, etc.), but my shots are still under a football field. But in most of the nation's deer woods? I think you suck if you can't take one well under 30 with a bow. And no matter what you think of that, there is no way to rationalize that you snipers are better hunters than the guys that are arrowing 250 pound monsters at 10 paces. Until you pull it off yourself, you're just not on that level. Bottom line.

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from r wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

we do that in Florida. Especially up in north FL where dog hunting is popular and you don't have much development around. The hogs are thick and people catch and feed em for food all the time. You can worm em that way also by feeding them a can of copenhagen snuff. No lie. They eat it up and it rids them of worms. Feed em corn and dinner scraps for a few months and they go tame and taste better.

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from RJ wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I new some guys in FLA. who used to go for wild hogs in the groves, they used about 10-12 dogs to run them down, and pin them, they would then tie up the hogs and bring them back to their property were they would grain feed them for a while " cause you don't know what they are a eaten' in the groves" then they would slaughter them. True story.

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from Eric wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Dave,Why the Ultramag?? I thought you were a Weatherby guy!!!

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from PbHead wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

When I want a primitive hunt, I go with my inlaws.

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from ryan wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Mississippi and Louisiana now allow the use of any centerfire rifle designed before 1890 including the H&R handi-rifle in 45-70 with iron sights for primitive season. I don't want to see some dude with an electronic ignition TC and his leupold 12x scope on my primitive hunt! 45-70, iron sights.Actually, why dont they allow 30-30 win with iron sights?The loopholes have made primitive weapons not so primitive.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I haven't seen ol' "Ain't Right" since he went hog hunting with that Rambo knife of his....:-)To each his own.

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from Milton Burton wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Gimmie a .323 Remchester Super-snorter every time! Down my way real men even hunt quail with 'em, eschewing shotguns as faggy. Great for flusing birds, the Super-snorter is so fast you don't have to lead.

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

BlueOx,Visit www.floridahuntingoutfitter.com"Outwest Farms" is the nameFrom the website:----Wild Boar Hunting FloridaThis is by far the most sought after experience I offer. My hunts are conducted at your preference, whether it be from a swamp buggy, cruising around the mash trying to kick one up with redbone hounds, from a tree stand at a feeder with a bow, or for a more adrenaline seeker, a bull dog and a knife or spear.----Let me know how that works out...Notice that "mash" instead of "marsh"...A spear vs. hog....Right tool for the job indeed....

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Blue Ox-I have an acquaintance who does that dog and knife thing with wild hogs. We have plenty of thosein Texas. The general consensus onthis guy around town is: "He ain'twrapped to tight." It may be a real "sporting" kind of hunt, but a lot of dogs get maimed and killed, an occasionally some "hunters" also. I'll stick with the '06 or .375 Winchester for anything with teeth like a wild hog.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

My muzzleloader is way less primitive than my Winchester 94 30-30. So are they making the new Model 70 in 7mm Thunderf***er? I've decided to join the 700 yard club and want to do it in style...

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from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I'd like to have a go at the whole 'dog & knife' boar hunt deal!

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from shotgun red wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

naw Lowgun, I think you bout covered it. they say that modern bow and muzzyloader huntin is "primitive" nowadays, THE HELL IT IS!

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from Lowgun wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Eyeball: Skeet shooting never involved live birds - trap did, but not skeet...I love the "It Ain't Hunting If...." stuff. I secretly agree, but the open door is just irresistable: SMILE!So you don't use a metallic cartridge gun do ya? Damn "ready to use ammo" is the end of fair chase hunting I tell you! I saw a brochure today from an outfitter in Okeechobee that offers a "Dog and Knife" wild hog hunt - Now, SON! That's a hunt don't ya know!(Let me know how that works out if'n anyone has been on one of them! That's gotta be a "Darrel" good time, buddy! I'm thinking the gator hunt could be a gas too, but I'm thinkin I would want the gun for that one...)Did they have these conversations when smokeless powder was invented?1. No optical sighting devices - real hunters don't need glass! If you can't smell your quarry you haven't done the stalk properly!2. If'n the gun doesn't have a ram rod, well, it's automated meat harvesting, not hunting. Real hunting went away when they created metallic cartridges I tell you!3.If'n a shot is taken at ranges greater than musket ball range, then the guy is not really a hunter, just a shooter.4. A real hunter will sharpen a stick and poke that ole Moose in the belly. Not that many around anymore though...the hunters I mean.Naw, just kidding - I think I'll take this here REAL hunting rifle-an '06 of course (with cryo-treated precision machined, air gauged - hand and fire lapped barrel ) - and put that new 180gr-super ballistic point- hollow point- Nosler partition-CNC milled-boattailed bullet handloaded with digital scale accuracy with 40.32 grains of Vargetter 199 (a REAL hunters round) in some varmit. Of course if'n I do plug him from a long way off (got that Leupold VX-L mounted up there), why, I'll be sure and relate that feat of uncommon ability over an adult beverage. Several times a night. Now, THAT'S real hunting!Bowhunting is ruined by that damned compound bow crap and metal broadheads..and muzzle-loading ain't muzzle-loading if'n the powder is in a pellet and a Win 209 sets it off...and don't even get me started on sabot projectiles (damn French words and all)....Did I leave anyone out?Trying to include ever'one...stirring the pot...:-)

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from Charlie Milliron wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

It's just food for thought and food for argument. I love to sit in a tree and wait for Bambi to waddle to within 25 yards(bow range) and I love to "DAD"........"Dial And Dust" another varmint(whitetails is varmints you know!!!)at 400,500,600 yards or any increment you want to put in there(for those of you who rag on the folks who use modern technology to do this, 437 yards can be dialed in to the equipment!)and I see the arguments espoused here from both sides. I love to hunt. I love to shoot. And when the shooting crosses over into the hunting, I have no problem as long as the shooter is proficient! Don't shoot a bull in the ass with a BB gun and expect him to fall!! Shot placement and knowing what you're doing with equipment(bullets and rifles in known effective chamberings) goes a long way to dispatching game in an ethical manner! Have respect for the animal you are shooting whether it's a ground squirrel or a damn elephant! Dispatch them as qquickly and as painlessly as possible. I'd rather teetotally miss anything than wound it and therefore that's why I choose to know what my rifles and WHAT I AM CAPABLE OF before pulling the trigger!!...........Last thing I shot with the 7mm whatever the author was talking about was a doe at 407 yards. Friend of mine asked if I could "hit that deer" in the logging road. I said, "Yes I can and it will be hit 4" under it's head in the neck." He said,"I'll clean it if you kill it!" No problem! He had to clean the doe with the neck blown away 4" under it's head. Could I do it again? YES. Would I do it again? YES. But I get a thrill from that doe walking into an acorn patch 20 yards from a treestand and never knowing danger was around until a 100 grain Spitfire broadhead penetrates all the way through!!What bothers me the most about some hunters is that they'd shoot at any deer they saw with a 30-30 or 30-06 or even an M1 in 30 Carbine at ridicoulous distance just becasuse "the Army used them so they must be good!"...........And they may actually hit one and wound it only to go die a slow and painful death!! Sorry for the rant! Charlie (GHD)

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Bernie Kuntz,I believe I've read the same article your speaking of. I've also seen another good visual example of differences between acceptable and overbore cartriges for folks (like me) who don't own a crono. If you have an old bed sheet, hang it up and stand a few yards back, about the same distance as you'd have your crono, and shoot at it with your standard deer rifle, say a 30-06. Take a look at the bullet hole and the black specks around it (the unburt powder). Then do the same with say a 300 Wby and compare the amount of black specks of unburnt powder between the two. Thats overbore.

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from Will Becker wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

David, you can pi** on little Johnny's shoes,or anyone who upholds slick Willy. As for the thunderf***r,I say whatever a man wants to shoot.

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from james ti wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

david, i think you pi**sed on johnnydawson's shoes with your talk of the great white liar and his oppressive manwife! way to go! keep it up. can we see him cry now?

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from Ryan wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Clay,I have a NEF 45-70. 7 lbs rifle with a round that could kill a stegasaurus at close range. Take the butt plate off and plug a plexiglass guitar slide with a cork, cut the cork off off even. Roll clear tape at an agle over the slide and past it to create a long tube. Drop it in the back and fill it with #6 heavy shot. Cut it all off at the back of the stock, pack the void spaces with paper towel and replace the butt. Then throw on a slip on limbsaver pad. You just added about a pound to the rifle which makes a big difference and the limbsaver spreads out the shock. You can also get a barrel weight if you want, but it looks dumb so I left it off. It goes from kicking like a .300 weatherby to about a .308. Also, the 405 grain kicks way less than the nifty hornadys in 350gr and super velocities. At iron sight ranges, velocity and drop dont matter and Bambi's dad is turned into dinner.

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from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

So if Assblaster arms puts out a commercial and shows some poor bastard gettin blown right off his shooting stool, I imagine they'd have a catchy tune...I can hear AC/DC singing it right now:"You've been... THUNDERF***ED!!"

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I was once good friends with a guy who would set up a tripod stand on a farm field where the deer would hang out. A month or so before hunting season he actually put flags up in the field, sort of like a golf driving range would have, denoting 200, 300, etc. yards, all the way to 800. He used the flags both for range estimation and to see what the wind was doing way out there. Up in the tripod he had three rifles; a .270 sighted in at 200 yards, a 7mm Magnum sighted at 400, and a .300 Win Mag sighted in for somewhere near the horizon, all loaded with his own slippery bullet handloads. His publicly stated ambition was to kill a deer at a half-mile. He never did (I don't think he ever got a shot), but he got his share of deer at closer ranges. I wouldn't call what he did hunting, but he was so studious about it and so disciplined about his marksmanship that you couldn't really put him down for it. In the old days trap and skeet shooters shot real birds; you could probably call what my friend does live target shooting, with the deer as the bullseye and the venison as the prize. And I don't think he ever gave a rip about whether his barrels would last 500 rounds or 5000. I haven't seen him in years, but he was the kind of guy that a 28" barreled Lazzeroni in 7mm Thunderwhatever is made for.

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from z41 wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Words can be like rifle calibers. Some are overbore capacity ohers are sweet and really deliver the goods. Overbore words hard on the ears, even if they are just read. A good wordsmith conveys thoughts with just the right word, like a clean cut with a sharp knief.A "proper word at the right time is like an apple of gold in a setting of silver."

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from Bernie Kuntz wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

I still have copies of a technical article from Precision Shooting magazine in 2003, written by John Dustin, that explores in great detail this phenomenon of over-bore capacity.In summary, when you are burning one grain of powder to gain 10 fps of velocity, things are a little nutty. These mammoth cartridges require 26" barrels, muzzle brakes and too-heavy rifles. To hell with the ultras.Real hunters don't shoot at big game animals 700 yards distant. Ethical hunting includes stalking to within reasonable rifle range--something many of today's over-equipped and underskilled "hunters" find foreign.

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from johnnydawson wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

You have a problem with Bill Clinton? He left George W. with a 300 billion dollar budget surpulus. Now we have a budget DEFICIT in the trillions. Ok, Dave, rag on Clinton all you want. But to avoid being a hypocrite, would you mind please paying off my share of the national debt?

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from Beekeeper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Clay,I'll one up you on recoil. Try a 45/70 round in a New England Arms Handi-Rifle. Ouch! I will give you style points for the steel buttplate on the #3. Used to have a #3 in .375 Winchester. Using the 235 grain Speer Semi Spitzer in hunting loads it would get your attention from the bench.

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from Olsingleshot wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Putting the right bullet in the right spot is far more important than speed or size of bullets. Match your bullet to the speed of your round, barrel twist and the size of the game. Big and magnums are not always the answer.

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from SilverArrow wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

C'mon Dave, REALLY go for it! Cram a full hundred grains of the aforementioned powder into your case, add 4" to the barrel and get up to Mach 3! Imagine the boys' faces when they see that Chrony register almost 3400fps for a .338! A true half-mile shooting rifle for sure! Mach (bleepin) 3 or bust! We don't need no ScentBlocker clothes, no stinkin camouflage, no we don't need none of that stuff! Just give us the Mach 3 version of the ThunderF***r Magnum and point us to the nearest high-fence elk ranch! No stalking, no treestands, no problem! Mach 3 baby!Oh, just one little request? Don't call what you do with one of those damnable things 'Hunting' because it isn't!SA

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from Scott in Southern Illinois wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

This is an awesome thread! I can see the commercial now on Wednesday Night at the Range: (cue heavy metal/Sly Stone Funk music, irritatingly typical in today's hunting video) AssBlaster Technologies introduces the 7mm ThunderF****r Magnum (cue hot chick holding and firing the rifle in a bikini ala Sarah Palin). Jim Scoutten's voice states "the all-new ThunderF****r Magnum is ideal for taking extremely dangerous game at any distance. Just point and shoot. As your PH lases your bull, the AssBlaster Technologies laser-guided bullet will seek and destroy its target post haste. Get yours today! Shoot straight, shoot often, and, share your sport!"

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Unless something better than smokeless powder is invented, the 7mm Thunder****** has pretty much been invented. Check out this link.http://lazzeroni.com/ct_lacart.htmI admit to never having held a Lazzeroni rifle in my hands, let alone firing one. But I think we've just about hit the max here. Anything that shoots faster than these will need fire-and-forget technology. A .416 that shoots almost point blank to 400 yards? You'd have to buy your Lead Sled a Lead Sled!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Ruger #3 45-70 that is!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

The best thing and only good thing about the 7mm Rem Mag is its empty brass? It makes darn good 338 Win Mag cases, just punch the neck out and I also use 300 Win Mag cases also! Now a 264 Win Mag? O’so sweet out before its time, just needs a better barrel!You want to really try something? Try a Ruger #3 loaded at 458 Win Mag velocities!!! Nothing kicks harder than a 3½ 12 gauge!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

7mm Rem Mag is best with light weight bullets for open country. Whatever you can do with bullet weights over 162, I can do better with my 30-06!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Dick McplentyThe best Moose kill I ever witnessed was a kid with a 30-06 shooting 180 grain Remington’s!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

.338 Remington Ultra Mag, which will gulp down 93 grains of RelodeR 22*, which drives the same bullet at 3,020?David, I can do that with my 338 Win Mag, 72 grains IMR4350 behind a Hornady 225 grain soft point @ 3083fps. And yes, I’ve watched a many including my Bullwinkle’s bight the dust as if they were hit by a 460 Weatherby Mag.Is the .338 Remington Ultra Mag over bore, no.Just over cartridge!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

.338 Remington Ultra Mag, which will gulp down 93 grains of RelodeR 22*, which drives the same bullet at 3,020?You got to be kidding!I’m shooting a 225 grain Hornady out of my 338 Win Mag with 72 grains of IMR4350 and doing that and it knocks any Moose’s $ick in the dirt just fine!Overbore .338 Remington Ultra Mag?How about over cartridge!

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from Dick Mcplenty wrote 5 years 26 weeks ago

Without the 7mm rem mag,there wouldn't be any magnums for those who can't handle real magnums.With the advent of range finders turrets and dot reticles,I could care less about magnum anything. I've yet to see a barnes x stay inside an elk inside of 750 yards,using the various 06 based cartridges..

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from Rod McPhee wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Dave, this was a very irresponsible article for you to write. You created a sweet name for a cartridge which does not exist. Now a bunch of people are going to build custom 7mm Thunderf***er Magnums with non standard chambers and its only a matter of time before someone blows his head clean off with a sloppy chambered thunderf***ker. Next time please have the courtesy to include chamber specs. ;)

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Dave I don't think your loading data for the 338 is out of line at all unless the Triple X's bearing surface is that much greater than the partition.

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from jersey pig wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

i'm very interested in seeing the promotional material and the advertsing graphics on the boxes of 7mm thunderf****r magnum. the potential is almost unlimited.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Yeah eyeball I just don't go along with the BS about pushing tiny bullets faster to kill bigger game. Bigger is what works up close. Just ask your wife...

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from Scrap5000 wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

I just ate a big plate of beans so I can show off my Thunderf***er magnum...but when it lets loose it opens up a lot bigger than 7mm...!

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from eyeball wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

At least Dave has his head on straight in this respect; you up velocity for the purpose of achieving flatter trajectory and less wind drift so that you can shoot animals more easily at somewhat longer ranges. If he had said, "But there are times when a 225 grain bullet out of a .338 just ain't POWERFUL enough to kill something as dead as it needs to be. THEN I load up the same bullet 250 fps faster, and the animals fall down DRT," we could have had a real good debate. If you want greater range, go faster. If you want greater killing power, go bigger.

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from Ryan wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

No, since the Thunderf***er drops 0.0002 less than the 30-06 at 300, it is more "accurate". Well worth shoulder surgury and Belltone hearing aids later in life. When you shoot the deer in the ass at 900 yards(as your shot will be off from the recoil), its guts will fly out at the speed of light. Also, when your retinas fall off it will have been worth it. I mean, if you had shot 0.0002 inches higher with your 06 the deer would have laughed at you then farted in your face right?I'm going to go kill Bambi's dad with my 7mm-08 and a heart/lung shot now. Excuse me.

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Blue Ox,The earsplitten loudenboomer was developed to drive squirt gun shooters off the benchrest range. It really has no practical balistics past 600 yards. The 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum, as previously stated,is a creation of AssBlaster Arms, and is not only viable into the next zip code, will reliably knock the unfortunate shooter off his shooting stool, and at least across one county line. Advocates of the 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum, also developed the "one shot zero technique."

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from Blue Ox wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Is the thunderf***er chambered for the same rounds as the earsplitten loudenboomer?

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Nobody is gonna call me a Clintonista, or a squirrelheaded son of a bitch. A .30-'06 with a 165 gr. Nosler, zeroed at 200 yds.has a nine inch drop and plenty ofstuff left at 300 yds. to kill anything short of a moose or the big bears. For moose, or big bears, the .338 Win. Mag. or .375 H&H Mag. are more than adaquate, possibly a bit "overbore", but who cares with something big and mean enough to put you in a world of hurt? Who needs a 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum, the animal will be just as dead if the shooter places the bullet right. BTW, a .338 Win Mag with a 215 gr. SBT zeroed at 200 yds. also has a 9" drop at 300 yds. IMHO, anyone who cannot get within 300 yds.of their chosen quarry is not a hunter, he is an optimistic artilaryman!

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from KJ wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Ryan,The 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum is a creation of AssBlaster Arms. It is a smaller version of the .300 Lightning Sh***er. I'd suggest you google "thunderf***er" and see what comes up.

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from Ryan wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

Does anybody know where I can pick up a 7mm Thunderf***er Magnum?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 5 years 27 weeks ago

First you tell us the .338 or reasonable facsimile is the perfect all around gun... now you're pretty much advocating shooting at ranges beyond 300 yards. You might as well just go ahead and become the new spokesmodel for the .338 Lapua Magnum. Hell it penetrates body armour at over 1,000 yards. No wonder I didn't see your picture at Winchester's web site where they invited a group of so called gun writers to tour their new factory. Of course Bodinson and Carmichel were the only one's I recognized and you were probably in Africa... love you Dave.

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