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A Savage And Unwarranted Attack On GPS

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August 27, 2007

A Savage And Unwarranted Attack On GPS

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

I've been lost three times, once in Vermont, once in Montana, and once in what was Rhodesia. In all three cases I figured out where I was in about a half hour. The reason for my sterling record is this: I do not boldly go where no man has gone before. I'll make the trip, but I will be practically peeing my longjohns in terror. I always carry three compasses: a big Silva with a mirror, a smaller Silva with a mirror, and a little bubble compass that I pin on my orange vest.

Most important, I pay attention to where I am and where I am going. I shoot back azimuths occasionally, and am not above making notes about times, distances, terrain features, etc. Most of the hunters who get lost, I think, do so because they're tracking game and forget to do stuff like this.

I learned to use a compass in the Maine woods when I was 13. It has stood me in good stead ever since. And no compass has ever refused to give me directions because the moon was not in the Seventh House and Jupiter was not aligned with Mars.

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from Dylan wrote 6 years 31 weeks ago

It's good have knowledge of "old school" methods such as maps and compass, but GPS are very handy. I am an environmental science major in college, and have done a lot of wildlife research in many areas (including Costa Rica as mentioned above). GPS are very handy in research for their ability to pinpoint sample locations in the field. I also just recently started taking a GPS out hunting with me. Most GPS have functions on them that most people know nothing about. For example, you could locate an awesome new treestand location, mark it on your GPS (waypoint), and then return early in the morning(while it's still dark) without wasting any unneccessary time. When hunting you can also mark the last place you saw the animal wait until it bleeds out and then return to that exact spot to continue tracking, or if you are in really rough terrain you can mark downed game then go get someone else in your party to help you drag it out. Another great function of the GPS is a track log which takes a waypoint every couple of seconds, you can follow these tracks on your GPS whereever you need to go. If you buy ARS GIS software for your computer you can create your maps with your favorite hunting locations. For example you have several sites that you want to hunt on this three thousand acre property. You take your GPS out while scouting, mark the points, return home, and download the points on Arc GIS. YOu can then download a raster (aerial map) of your county, and those points you took will come up on the map. Then you print off the map, and you have an easy to follow map of all the places you wanted to hunt. I understand that there are instances where a GPS loses reception, but in those circumstances you should know how to use maps and compasses. Most the GPS are pretty good, and are getting more and more accurate. Your GPS also has a compass screen(which isn't affected by iron deposits). It's always a good idea to mark base camp or your vehicle on your GPS. As mentioned before rescue teams can locate your GPS. I also am not a big proponent on tech advances for hunting, but the GPS is a good tool. It doesn't give you the upper hand in the hunt but does give you the upper hand in safety.Good luck hunting to everyone this fall!

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from wolden wrote 6 years 31 weeks ago

northern wis ,big woods ,has lots of hunters who had the ufo or compass pole reversed thing i guide seen itmaybe 25 times over last decade thing is you can follow tracks in snow with same brand compass next day and nothinghappens,

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from Russ wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

I use it because of one question:How do I tell someone exactly where I am or was?I volunteer for DNR and need to describe precisely were I found invasive plant patches. I also need to find the exact location of photo-monitoring camera placements, especially in places where strollers, hikers, hunters and angry bucks have destroyed the markers.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Tony O. AS for the 30-06 in everone's hands, got to be a good reason, right? As a firearm thats been around l00 years and still going strong, it has to be a great caliber. Forget the WSM's and WSSM's as they gonna be short lived,(plus ammo will be impossible to find, re-loads only) mark my word. Buy your self a quality 06 and then you can hunt all of N.America, exclude the Brown/Griz's. AS ammo available from 55 grs to 220 factory made. I have several 06's and I;ve killed small game up to a 6 x 6 Elk with a l65 or l80 gr bullet.AS for recoil, if you buy a syn stock, add about 2 lbs of lead (old wheel wts) to the stock wrapped in foam. If a Wood stock, bore a 3/4 hole and add lead shot(l ot 2 lbs) I did that to a brand new REM 700 CDL walnut stock ( killed me to see the hole go in), but now I can handle the recoil like a 243.My gun weighs about 9 l/2 lb, scoped, loaded, and love the added wt at the butt end, as then I can hold the front end more steady. If the 06 is not your choice, then get a 25-06,(l20 gr factory) a flat shoting gun, little recoil. I killed a Lope last yr In Wy at 325 yds with the 25-06 and in MT killed a 4 x 4 deer with the 06 using l80 gr. at 345 yds, both one shot kills.(I was hunting both Deer/Elk then)I;m repeating myself, as I;ve stated the above many times on this Blog. Again,the 06 will suit you great. A Savage is a good firearm, add a mid-price $500.00 scope, mine all carry NIKON Monarch's). I;m a Rem. guy myself, so all my hunting guns are 700's of all calibers I use. But for the $$$ a Savage will be great, they have a Walnut gun out now, looks like the Rem BDL. Plus Savage has a 3 position slide safety, which is good.Rem. has just come out with a Black Syn stocked Model 715,( all calibers) that should be a good firearm, reasonabled priced,less than 500 bucks. with Det Mag.Let us know on this Blog what firearm you do purchase,will be interesting on your choice. Good Luck, shoot a lot and straight.PS; Scopes: Forget the scops at Wall- World, buy the best scope you can afford, be what-ever brand you choose. I just like the Nikons,@98% light gathering, been most successful for me. If you go west, by all means, buy a Rangefinder, as one is a must to be successful out there,

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from East of Miss; wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Ricardo. Thanks for the info. I may decide to give Mexico a try next year, if I do I surely will contact you thru this Blog for further information. My plans are already set for this fall's hunting trips. Just not enough hunting days or Money$$$ available for me to hunt all I would love to. Got spoiled on the Rocky Mountains many years ago (l990) and feel lost each fall if I don;t go out. HAve made some contacts with disabled clubs and guys who will take a disabled guy out. Only problem I have so far is the draw for the areas I would like to hunt hunt. Where I hunt(privatr property) , tags no problem, as the folks I hunt with do help me out in that dept. Here in the deep south, we got zillions of W-tails, Coyotes, rabbits, Foxes, some pigs, few Quail. We plant cover crops for the small game and also food for the w-tails to keep them in our area we hunt. Hunting areas are getting harder every year to find.So much development, the woods taken out and paved or a new home built.In you country, am sure you got lots of game. Man would I love to tag a Elk/Mulie in Mexico. AS stated earlier, if see my way to come to Mexico , will be in contact. Thanks again for replying to my questions, been most helpful.PS; If I did make it to Mexico, what are the chances of you hunting with me?????? as I;m sure you know where the game is.

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

RR of Old Mexico:What's the hunting like in central and southern Mexico? I only hear of the Northern Areas.Do you shoot and gamble on live Pigeons? I learned the hard way not to live pigeon shoot against Spanish and Italian speaking types. :-)

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from arch wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

I know all the GPS technical problems - GDoP, latency, wormholes, vulnerability to repeater jamming, battery life, limitations in urban and rugged terrain. I own two Garmin units and a Uniden GPS radar detector. It's a good nav aid, but learn to live without it.One of the most useful features of my eTrek is the "Find" menu. If you do not know where you are, push "find" and select the "nearest" option. It gives you a range and bearing to the nearest town. Knowing that, you can find the town, reverse the bearing and put your finger on where you are, or you can start walking in that direction, or you can tell rescue precisely where you are.The biggest problem is that users learn rely on it. They fail to familiarize themselves with the local terrain and keep track of what direction they have traveled, how fast and for how long. Also, they do not learn to map read.

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from Ricardo Rodríguez wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

East of Miss.The best place to get big wt buks in all Mexico is in the surrounings of Nuevo Laredo, just crossing the bridge from Laredo, TX. There they are as you wish they were, big and abundant.There are many places where you can hunt Elk, but only as an exotic, in fenced rranches. Mule Deer you can hunt in the North Western states of Chihuahua and Sonora. There are a few berrendos (antilopes) too, but are protected.For a foreign hunter, an outfitter, usually the owner of the managemente unit or a person specialized in that area, is necessary to make the paperwork for the hunting license, required by the state you hunt in, and for the temporary import of the guns, required by the Defense. The hunting license in Mexico is not like in the U.S., it is more like a driving license (no car included), so it is cheap. The cost of a Mule deer can vary greatly, but must be more expensive than for white tail. They can let you hunt for the full season (two months) the tags you bought, only valid for that ranch, or you can pay for each trip like in a hotel and pay extra for each deer you kill; or go to a "guaranteed" hunt where the deer are so abundant or are fenced so you can´t have not a chance. Many ranch owners are organized under a group called ANGADI (Natl. Diversified Cattle Org.), and they could have a list of providers that would serve foreigners in a regular basis.Hope this is of help.Best regards.

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from Thor Jphnson wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

It is often asked, How did Buddy Hinton of Sturmgewehr.com become the New Left's foremost political guru? How did this immigrant cobbler's son become the hottest consultant/shaman/whipcrack to top world leaders and the haute art/fashion crowd on this or any planet?Why do the famous and not so famous movers and shakers, world leaders, trend-setters, dictators and democrats, Hollywood glamourites and hep young Xgen streetpeople beat a path to his ornate carved mahogany doors? Why are these A-list celebs and notorious oppressors and everyone else from J!mmie Carter to Papa Soros to Vlad Putin to Bobby Trendy to Hillary and the Pope lined up to get into Buddy Hinton's Euro-fab digs in the incredible old Sutro mansion outside of Frisco?It could be the incredible fried pies and the world class wine cellar, but it's not. It could be the treasures of sculpture and avante-gard furnishings, but it's really not that, either. The whole-house Bose system? No, not even that. So... what is it about this itinerate cobbler's son become raconteur and fashion policeman to the world's glitterati that makes him the center of today's Powerpeoples' world?

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from East of Miss; wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Thanks Ricardo. Would have thought in your living area you would have some Elk, etc. But little knowledge of Mexico and hunting. Have wanted to hunt for a big,wide rack deer in Texas, where you see dozens of bucks a day and just choose the one you want. Where I hunt in the Rockies, many w-tails, but a 4 x 4 about it in the l6 to 20" range. We have many W-tails here in the deep south, but horn growth is minor. Need a good culling job on some Does and sub- standard Bucks. My Son and I own a small farm, about 90 A total(but access to about 400 joining ours),so last year we started killing many deformed bucks . If no improvement in quality of Bucks, then will begin to kill some young does and leave the 1l/2 yr bucks alone and see what developes in couple years. For the Non-Res. what do licenses cost to hunt Mexico? Elk if any available or Mulies? Thanks again for the reply. Good hunting. Shoot-um-straight and often. The old Gunslinger down south.

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from Ricardo Rodríguez wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

To East of the Miss. Sportsman and Zermoid:As I was saying, we were not so lost really, but the vegetation and weather didn´t help us to find our way out. I have read a little about orientation but there was no landmark near or way to see it for that matter. A simple stick in the ground casting a shadow would help us find north and our way out, but it was too cloudy. Our main error was to walk looking to the ground to find a blood track to the deer. The main concern was not to waste time getting out and save us the scratching of our skin and clothes, because if you walk around the bushes into the clear spots to avoid harm you end walking in circles.Sorry, but I am in North East Mexico, not Texas. I used McAllen TX, a border town, as a reference, but it is about the same country and game here as in South Texas. You can hunt White tailed deer, Javalina, bobcat, cottontail,jackrabbits, bobwhite and scale quails, turkey, doves, specially white winged, very popular among americans, and in winter we have waterfowl as pintail and canadian goose among others. There are some cougars, and black bears in the Sierra, but they are protected.For more than 8 years, all hunting has to be arranged by the landlords in UMAs or Management Units, which get the permits and tags for the game. You can get a deer hunt from about 1,000 Dlls up to 10,000 Dlls or more depending of the area you are and the facilities, and if you hunt fenced or free range. The outfitter shall get you the permits for the guns.It could seem that this privatization of hunting would disminish the number of hunters, but it seem to be all the contrary, as many more tags have become available, although it has become more expensive for those who used to hunt in private lands only with the owners´ permit and a license.

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from Zermoid wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Make a mental note of which way the road runs (N/S, E/W, NE/SW, Whatever) and the general direction you are heading into the woods in (N, S, E, W, if you want to be more precise go ahead but this has always served me) now if the road goes N/S and you headed East into the woods it don't take rocket science to figure out going West will get you back onto the road, at this point you will either recognize the road or not. If you recognize it your probably between where you parked your truck and where you came from, go in the same direction as you drove in. If it looks so foreign to you that you wonder if your even still on Earth then you are probably past where ya Parked, or were too stupid to LOOK at the road you drove in on a few hour earlier.Fairly simple and has worked for me for the last 30 or so years of hunting, I've always gotten back without Search & Rescue getting involved, had a few LONG hikes back but have always figured out just how screwed up I was and figured the way back by stopping and thinking, how many turns, how far I went, and knowing the general area (this means drive the area you plan on hunting a few days ahead in daylight and get familiar with the roads).I also carry a cell phone, no I do not count on it working when needed as it usually dosen't, but they have a GPS chip in it, which should help in locating my remains in case I do something incredibly Stupid while out hunting (or someone else does something incredibly Stupid and I'm on the receiving end) as my family will be calling someone to go retrieve me if I'm not home shortly after dark!

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from East of the Miss. sportsman wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Can understand being lost from Texas. We got a guy from Texas in Washinton D.C. who's been lost for 8 or more years. Hopefully, he can find his way back in 2009. Had to point that out for the 3 guys lost in Texas. They should not feel bad, at least they had enough sense to figure out a way to find home. All my youth, I wanted to be a Cowboy. too bad I never was able to do so.Now too old to even consider such a venture. What i would give to have bought a ranch back in the 50's and now would be able to hunt every day, plus love those Horses and cattle. Now I just hunt the states i can draw and watch many out-door-hunting TV shows.PS: do you know the price of NR hunting licenses for the better hunting areas of Texas, also, other than Deer, what native game is available in Texas

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from Ricardo Rodríguez wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I once got myself kind of lost, together with a brother and a cowboy in my own ranch, about 150 miles W-SW of McAllen, TX, nothing really serious, we were never in any danger and knew that walking in any direction would take us to a barbwire fence sooner or later, but it is quite irritating (and humiliating)not knowing where the hell you really are.We were following a wounded deer into a wooded area the cows never enter, so it was pretty dense with mezquite, huizache and other bushes with a lot of thorns about 9 feet high. After half hour of following possible tracks we desisted and found out we didn´t know where the truck was. The bush was so dense we could not see more than 60 feet in any direction and needed to go thru the thorny branches or under them to walk in a straigh line, so what we really wanted was to find the shortest way to our vehicle to avoid all the scratching, walking 5 minutes instead of 1 hour or more. The sky was heavy with clouds and no shadow was cast in the ground to find north. The cowhand got to climb an ebano tree that surpassed the surrounding trees and distingished the ranch house tin roof, 2 miles away, so we figured out our position and walked out to the road where the truck was, bearing for the fartest tall tree we could see and looking back to the ebano tree for reference. We ended only 200 yards away from our truck, but could have ended 1 mile away from it onto the nearest wire fence, all scratched up.Since that day I always carry a tiny water compass in my cloths when hunting.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony O ,.. you need some help,..which is fine ,There are a lot of good guys (maybe even a few women) on this here blog,.. who know a lot ,.. .. who will willingly helpHunteres (well sportsman) are like thatIf you ask they will do thier best to help you.Usually to the estent that you become nervous and jerky in your own home wondering who will try to help next.But fear not Tony O,.. once they deteemine you are well and truly launched as a sportsman.They will then begin to argue with you ,.. which of cours is when you know you have truly arrved. YUK YUKOne because they like it and two because there are less and less of us. But I think mostly because they are willing to share ,.. which I can tell you is a rare thing ,.. in and of any group.As SSgnt cooper said,.. gut it where it falls ,.. unless of course you happen to drop one,.. in down town (where ever) ,..Which I can then unequivically say is gonna be bad,..Did that once when i was a sapling ,.. made one hellova shot(in my humble opinion) on a small buck ,.. but the deer refused to die ,..Said wounded deer then ran accross a shallow river and into town.Where upon it fetched up deader than a three day old mackeral against a local Realors front door ,..As you may immagine ,.. given the fact that most husbands were occupied in the woods in a similar undertaking to mine.The more tender gender were at the time the majority of the occupants of said commercial establishment.Not positive,... but,..the screaming ansd swooning ,.. may have reached unprecedented levels,. which of course was made imeasurably worse by my subsequent 16 year old countennece looming ( from what they said) LARGE ,..sfter following the blood trail from the woods from behind the establishment .Appearing of couse to shoot yet again,.. the poor dead ( bamby) deer with what they later called a HUGE GUN ( 98 mauser)Yup ,.. couldnt even get my girlfired (who just did not fathom why i wouil track a wounded der to the local Realors office with loaded gun) to talk to me for maybe 10 days after that ,.All female resedents being of the opinion I had turned into a crazed blood thirsty killer.Some of which Tony O is true ,.. Looking back ,..I would have tracke that deer into the ocval ofice ,.. such is the instinct one aroused.But that of cours would be anorther story .If you do unfortunatly happen upon that scenario.I would then suiggest you put out urgent message to one PATRICkMC MANNUS ,. ( of a different publication) who may well have experiance in this arena.As I do not ,.. well just that one time .But if not he himslef ,.. possibley his sister"The Troll",.. may have improtant input,.YUK YUKYou should also be thankfull Tony O that your lovley wife is directionally or positionally challeged ,.What this means is ,.. short of placing one of those exploding anckle braclets on you,.. set to go off 15 minutes after hunting hours.She will not be able to tell if you stop off (briefly) at( Bruen-hildas Fied biscuts,.. mystery meat and spirits ) ,.. to compare notes with the hunting brethren that you will certianly meet and become aquainted with.Yes Tony O you are embarking upon a temendously fullfilling and speritually enlightneg path,..one word to the wise ,.. hunt a few miles from town,..Best RegardsYohan

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Clay: at-87 deg, how does it feel with-out any balls? As fo fiearms, I'd neve fire my weapon unless a matter of life or death, as that metal will burst all to pieces at -87. In fact in Colorado, Kremlin) when Temps reach -40 school buses don;t run, as axels will break at that and below temps. At 72 ys old, and many hunters younger, -87 is too cold to even begin to stay warm with layer upon layer of cloths. I have ample cold weather gear, but none to handle -87 at night and no FIRE. I;ve hunted the Rockies at -20 degs; wind of 25MPH and thats cold enough. Little time in the outside, more time spent in the tent, etc. I plan on Montana this fall, tell me what cloths to take along for -87,OK. no bull S---, please. Old gun-slingerin the South-Land

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

87 below? Clay we need to go to Alaska! Forget the Rockies...

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I'm missing something.How can a person get lost and not figure something out returning them to civilization riding an ATV?Also, I find it difficult to believe people blaze trails to and hunt in virgin lands via ATV. Must be a real logarithmic scales working.I've also gotten turned around in mountains stalking elk. I figured my way out, but the disorientation lasted an entire day, even to dribe back to Great Falls, Mt on highways. Freaky feeling.Excuse the spelling and grammar.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Lets get serious for a moment. If your really lost you are going to wish you had some things that would have prevented you from being lost. What would they be and no Macho stuff. Show me an expert woodsman that never been lost and I’ll show you someone that has not been out there long enough. It’s not the question of if? It’s a question of when! Good topo maps and the best compass in the best of hands still fall short of the perfect, Were in the hell am I!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

There are those that will look down on another hunters by the way they look, the way they dress, the way they outfit themselves just because they make it more easier on themselves. They are more comfortable in the heat or cold and their means of hunting. To some are considered an edge over others. Whither it’s the use of an ATV, shortening their barrel on a magnum to the use of a GPS. We all have our own flavors and standards. I’ve been in conditions hunting from minus 87 below zero to 124 plus. At sub zero temps, batteries, lighters that use fluids/gas and waterproof matches don’t work, guns and equipment freezes up. Because of the experiences and training that I have, the bottom line is this and I will challenge anyone with respect on this. I’d rather carry a GPS to be safe, period! Those Mountaineers on Mount Hood by law must carry EPRB’s. Emergency Positioning Radio Beacons. Activate the EPRB anyplace in the world, everyone and God knows your in trouble and help is on its way. I hunt alone in unfamiliar and some of the harshest environments. When you’re at the table of cards and your life is on the line. I bet you will like to have that 5th Ace up your sleeve!

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

So there's another "mark" lurking on this blog going by the handle of "mark [a]".I'll be that other guy "Mark-1" from now on. :-)

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

3 mile backup on the highway and running late. My Lowrance iFinder® Hunt C GPS Unit got me there on time. Back roads? no problem!OK I'm spoiled!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Rocky Mtn HunterThe Rocky Mountains?GODS COUNTRY!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Cracks me up when a hunter has to use trail tape. Hey everybody this is my hunting spot!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OGut it there Tony you don't need that extra weight to be pulling

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from mark (A) wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To Silver Arrow:Thanks for pointing that out. I am not at all familiar with spending time in the woods in or near densely populated areas i.e. "547" people onto my trail. So it never occurred to me. I don't know if most people would even recognize one of my trails. Flags don't have to be bright orange. Blazes weather.I agree that there is more to finding your way around, or out of, the "bush" than maps,gps's, compasses and the like. Knowledge of nature is a big part of it. The little bit that I know is from what has been passed on to me, and from my own experiences. I'm not sure some things can be taught...but I better stop there.Best of luck to you.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Agree with Dave and Wayne: I got enough stuff to carry around, don;t need a new toy. I do carry a roll of orange marking tap, and if hunting new woods I mark my trail every so often. Do carry a compass.I am 72, so most times i;m buddy hunting. If became lost, I'd say put, build a fire and make a bed/shelter. Say put and you will be found within 48 hrs. As for firearms. I've used a 06 for 50 yrs. I now use the new Sciricco l80 gr bonded out west where shots exceed 200 yds. Here at home where short shots, I either use my 25-06 or my 30-30. And, the 25-06 a great out west gun for Lopes and long distance w-tail deer. But in the thick woods here in the south,with small fields around, the 30-30 with open sights is all you need. Trust Wayne, he knows what he's talking about and has hunted more than most of us dream of. Before i buy a new fiearm or a question on Ammo I contact him for his opinion, so far he's been 100% correct.I go hunting for the enjoyment of being in the woods, not playing with toys. If a nice shootable animal comes by, thats a bonus. In you day pack, pack a 6 x8ft piece of clear plastic, dry matches, and a tad of Jerkey and few spoonfuls of coffee packed in your metal coffee cup. Build that small warm fire and enjoy the beautiful sky at night, and keep your firearm dry and handy. Just don;t get all-bent-out-of -shape and you will be just fine.O, don;t forget you knife and a few extra rounds of ammo. The Rocky Mountains have so much scenery to see, so just enjoy them and think positive. Before you go, pratice a lot, and then pratice again. Good-luck ;ye old Gunslinger down south

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

i believe you have convinced me on the 06 but i have another question, i have studied hunting as much as i can, but im still confused do i gut my deer right there or do i drag it out first?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I disagree. I learned land navagation and map reading in the US Army and can was very good at navigating by azimuth very accurately. I've had a GPS for about 3-4 years and they are excellent tools for marking anything from trails to hunting areas. I've never had problems with reception even in thick cedar swamps. I've learned a lot of tips and always carry a trusty compass as back up but have yet to rely on it due to my GPS not working. Anyone who is against them due to technology I only ask, do you also refuse to wear modern clothing to keep warm such as polypropelene, goretex, or thinsulate? Do you refuse to use items to help conceal or cover your scent? Or modern archery equipment with composite arrows, 300 fps speeds, etc. Or finally modern bullets with modern powders in firearms? This is no different.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OTake form someone that has the experience in knowledge and experience. Some day you might get a chance to go Elk or Moose hunting. That 30-06 will in fact do anything you want from busting critters to Moose, Period. I’ve seen hunters both in Alaska and in the lower 48 have more successful shots with the 30-06 than any cartridge. Magnums are great if your shooting past 175 yards and handle the excessive recoil. Never before have I seen one of the biggest Bull Moose literally blown off its feet at 75 yards as a young teenager shooting a 30-06 with off the shelf Remington core lock 180 grain bullets. My 338 Win Mag or any other Magnum could not have done a better job.Remember Sir; it’s all about bullet placement!And far as GPS are concern, if you don’t like one, then don’t carry one!To each there own I say!Hey, did anyone see Uncle Ted on the O’Reilly Factor last night?WOW!

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from JA Demko wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I'm willing to bet that when compasses were first invented there were old bastards complaining about them kids and their newfangled northpointers. "A REAL outdoorsman wouldn't depend on one them needle thingies. Ya never know when it might decide to point somewheres else. In my day we navigated by the stars and we were glad to do it!"

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OIn my experience, the 7mm Rem Mag with 150 or 160 gr bullets has a little more recoil than a .30-06 with 180 gr bullets, but not much. Neither are much fun for extended practice sessions, which a new rifle shooter needs.I would predict that the 175 gr. 7mm Rem has substantially more felt recoil than the .30-06. I have had folks who shot my .35 Whelen w/225 gr bullets complain of the recoil, which to me is about same felt recoil of a 7mm Rem Mag.A .308 Win with lighter bullets will kill any whitetail on the planet. The .308 and .257 Roberts are much more pleasant to shoot than the 7mm Rem or .30-06. Any of the options you name or have been suggested (except Clay's M-72 LAW) are quite adequate for the purpose stated.Hell, get 2 or 3 rifles. More is better, anyway. I am trying to decide which rifles (I already own) to hunt with this fall , too!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OForgot the 270 also a very good round.pretty much a .277 diamieter bullet ona 30-06 case.The late Jack O'conor thought it was magic,.. others of ciourse are 25:06 & 257 Roberts,, ,.. But 270 best bullet generally speaking is 130 grain. The 06 has a plethora of bullet weights not inclusing the accel;erators from 110 grain to 220 grain.The difference between 7mm and 270 is only about 5 thousanths of an inch ,. which in practicale terms is not worth mentioning.By the by ,.gotta be a littel careful here but,.. in my humble opinion,. ballistically for the 06 best bullet is 165 gr boat tail.Soft point sptzer.With that you can take anything from grond hogs to elk / moose,..And an old gunsmith I usd to know,.. who hand loaded 200 grian spitzers in his 06 wowed the Guide buy dropping a couple moose and big black bear like they were rabbits . Tis woud of course lead us to futher discussion of balistic coeffiiant and sectional density,.. but for now if you can get your arms around it ,. if your going to have one gun in the Us the 06 is a pretty fool proof choice.165 grain "bucks" a little more than 150 grain but down range retained velocity visa-v energy is superior in 165 ,However .either one for Missouri deer in the brush..The standard upper midwest "go to round" for the last,.. God knows how long ,.. is 30-06 180gr soft point,. and the boys up north know what works for what they do.But truthfully any of the three provided your gun shoots where you point it, will not let you down.Ther are better and worse calibers for specific applications ,..But if your gonna have one gun to hunt the stuff bigger than rabbits ad msaller the grizz or browns.A 30;06 is what I would tell my son to get.Versitaile practical and you don't need to take out a second mortgae on your house to by ammuinition.

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

my wife could get lost in our own house, so i think that gps might help, but i believe that its mostly if you wanna use or lose it its all up to you. the native americans didn't even need a compass so i guess its just up to you.

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from Paul L wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

OK, here's my $.02.I carry both a compass/map and a GPS. I have been lost in the winter woods in a snowstorm before on XC skis and I can tell you that that is not a comfortable feeling.The problem with a compass/map is that it is dependent on light to read it by. And try reading a map out in the woods during a southern downpour.The problem with GPS, other than the obvious reception and battery problem, is that it can turn you around if you are not moving. If you stop to read the compass, it can swing around to a random reading. This cost me a few hours travel before I figured that out.However, I have to say that the GPS has saved me countless miles, wandering back to camp, on the shortest route in deteriorating weather. And it does it so quickly.The BEST thing about GPS is marking landmarks like turkey and deer sign, and to retracing a trip onto a topo map. I have a nice database of where I have spotted bears, turkey, deer, grouse, as well as water sources and fishing spots.I'll continue to carry both compass/map and GPS and leave you with this warning: If you do not know how to read a map and compass, and rely solely on your GPS, you are probably going to spend a night out in the woods at some point. Good luck to you.

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

i have heard that a 270 will do the job well too. but maybe your right and i just need to concede to a 30.06 and be happy with myself for the deer and not the rifle.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Shootem like Cape Buffalo!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OYohan has a good point. If you want to really be different, get you a Laws Rocket. Gunny would be proud of you!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

And by the way, a 25-06 is perfect for any deer

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OA little factoid from Alaska.Any respectable hunting guide will tell you to leave your 7mm Rem Mag at home. You must have a 30-06 or larger.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OHave looked at your comments ,..Never hunted in Missouri Being completly honest and with no attempt to guild the lily I have taken well over 100 whitetails,..hopefully this will make me beleivableJust lukey enough to be able to hunt where poulations were good in multiple places,. multiple times.I can say for deer a 30-30 is plenty of gun out to 150 yds ,..and with the new hornady loads ,.. further,i shot a number of deer with a 30;30 but recall specifically a medium sized deer at 175 +/- yds once ,.. hit it amidships just behind the shoulder ,.. it walked a few steps and tipped over,.A7MM mag deopending on bullet weight can kick the snott out you .Heavier bullet heavier recoil.Not like 375 but not far behind 338,.. with 175 gr bulletCurious ,..Why not an O6?Its reasonable cost wise to shoot it will kill literaly anything and you can get anmmo anywhere,..7x57 is a great round but ammo more expensive and not availabe like -06,.. 280 Rem another good choice ( its a 7mm bullet sitting on 30-06 case) for all practical epurposes.and its Jim Carmichaes pet caliber .7mm-08 another excelent round.(7mm bullet on a 308 case.What ever you do get something that will not bestow upon you the gift ( curse) of the flinch,.. Flinching makes you missand if you miss you can shoot at a deer with a 458 mag (elephant gun ) all day with no effectIf the recoil and blast makes you scrunch up and jerk the trigger its no good ,..If your recoil sensitiveHave seen 243 take plenty of deer ,.. low recoil light bullet plenty for deer,.. but if you( for now)are dealing with one gun.Get something that you can afford to shoot cause practice is the key ,.. minimum 100 round per yesr to reasonabnly expect clean deadly hits.Vey likley a .308 winchester would serve you well ,.Ammo readily availabe ,.cost reasonable ,.. recoil reasonable and a lot of smack for the amount of powder burnedHope that helps,..

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from mudman wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I dont see how anyone can say that a gps is not a valuble tool. Dont tell me that if I mark a waypoint with my gps that you could get there quicker with a compass. I'm not saying dont take a compass with you but I would take the gps anyday!

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

how is the recoil on a 7 mm mag anyway?

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from Steven Dale wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

A couple of years ago killed a nice Bull Elk. The Packhorses I needed were at our spike camp (which I had marked on my GPS). After the kill I marked the downed animal on my GPS. With the GPS I could walk a straighter and quicker path to the camp and then back to the animal. Quicker and easier!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Just happned to look before calling it a day.To the guy with no name 08-29-2007 07'10PMI should by a compas that dosent come with the fruit loops.My responce is another genius exposed ,..So MR. no nmae if I could afford multiple extended hunting trips in my 20's ,.. likely I can afford a good compass.Probbaly one that cost as much as your wifes wedding ring.But that dosent stop magnetic fields from affecting its polarizationOnce again more deductive geniusYUK YUK Have a great evening.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Hey Yohan, perhaps you need to get a quality compass and please, don't use the one that comes from a box like Fruit Loops! Perhaps one that cost more than a dollar. YUK! YUK!

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from Barney Rouse wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Learned to use a map and compass from my Granddad and my Dad. Learned additional compass/map skills in the Army while in RVN. I currently have one of the popular name brand GPS systems, but always carry a map and compass as a backup. The GPS has difficulty locating satellites in some mountainous areas, particurlarly in deep canyons. I won't bother to mention the additional weight of the extra batteries required to operate the beast. I am not convinced that GPS is in any way superior to a map and compass when well used. It is helpful, also, to plan your trip while studying maps of the intended hunting area. Looking for terrain features, geological breaks, water, etc. In some ways, a map supercedes the GPS. Happy hunting.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

All know is that my fanny pack weights too much.At the end of the day my back is sore.Too may extra batteries for the lazer range finder, 2 flashlights, headlamp,8 mi radio,GPS,cell phone.My father and grandfather didn't carry all this stuff with them and they survived the woods.Oh! I called Garmin up the other day with a question about my GPS and they had to get back to me because it was considered old technology (6 yrs old).I ask you who is the fool?

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony O.30-30 will do a fine job on your short range Missouri whitetail shots. Light to carry, easy on the shoulder, easy on the wallet.Other good choices for you include the .257 Roberts as mentioned, 7mm-30 Waters, .44Mag rifle.SA

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from Eli Griggs wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I carry a compass, one of the big Brunton's with mirror, transparent base plate and plastic 'how-to' pages in the bottom of the protective rubber base. I love that thing. It tells me anything I want to know, from how tall that old oak is, to the angle of that hill I have to climb. It is a marvel of compass-kind and I carry it everywhere, 'cause it will also tell me where the sun will rise or set for photographs I take at the beginning and end of the day, when the light is just right. My compass gets used in the city (mostly for practice) as well as the woods and it is my first line tool for navigation.I also have a couple of GPS units and use them as well. Here in the East, I hunt public lands, which are rife with camping sites, private parcels, no gun zones, etc. I use a GPS mostly to make notes where I find good game sign, etc, and to tell me when I'm too close to a camping site; to avoid firing in that direction and as a reminder that within x number of yards of a designated camping area, you are not allowed to shoot. I might not go into an area for several years, but my GPS remembers for me and that's a real convenice. That's something no compass can not do for me, especially after a dark foggy morning, slipping in and out of tree covered ravines and traversing steep hills without a clear line of sight to a landmark. Sometimes I lose a signal, but it is much easer to find a sweet spot to grab onto a couple of satellites than to climb most of the way up a small wooded mountain for a clear view to local landmarks.I don't consider GPS to be better or worst than a good compass, simply a tool that augments my ability to get from here to there and back again.A side note; I once fell ill while hunting on family lands, something I had been doing for ten years or so, and was without a compass, in the pre-GPS days. I became so disoriented with fever that, with the temperature dropping and light failing, the only way I could find my way out was an eight mile hike along transformer lines and a long nightmarish walk alone a dark country road back to my car. That was the last time I went without a coat and compass into ANY woods, a hard and embarrassing lesson no one should have to experience in this day of inexpensive quality compasses and GPS.

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from Wayne McClellan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Try navigating with a compass and terrain features at night and you will realize the value of a GPS. I am a coon hunter that spends 4 or 5 nights a week in the woods--often strange woods. Going from point A to point B and returning with a compass is no problem. However, once you get to point A and the dogs have moved to point C and some to point D, you will get turned around and spending a lot of unessary time finding your way back. Most anti GPS hunters simply do not understand or want to learn how to navigate with a GPS. Once thing for sure, you have to keep the GPS exposed to the sky. If you put it in your pocket, you are lost. Above all, you must have your compass as well because when you are stading still, the GPS compass will not work. Some of the electronic versions do. I always carry both. I love my Garmin etrex and Garmin Rhino 120. These systems, coupled with Map Tech topo map systems, are the greatest asset any hunter can have.

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from Brian wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

GPS has a club-brain in steep-sided mountain valleys. Batteries don't work well in X-cold. Yup, superseded by new models, can't be fixed. However, when thrown up in the air, my GPS could still point "down."I have had to use a compass twice and those were twice too often but without my old, bubble-filled Prospector, I'd still be walking! F&S claimed that the Brunton Eclipse 1066 was the Best-of- the-Best. Right on.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Sounds like you want to be different rather than utilitarian. I can appreciate that!There is a reason the .30-06 is overused......Find a .257 Roberts. Ruger still chambers for it. Used ones around also. Federal makes a dandy 120 grain Nosler Partition for it.Great hunting!

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

The .06 is too overused and everybody and their cousin uses it. im looking for something that will do the job of killing deer in missouri. in the woods in southwest missouri your shots are almost never going to be over 150 yards.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Is the .30-06 a little too manly for you? The 7mm Rem Mag has more recoil and blast. The .270 more blast with a little less recoil, depending on bullet weight.If the recoil bothers you, get a .257 Roberts. A deer killer extraordinaire.

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from Tony O. wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

i will be hunting whitetail in the missouri brush. as for the '06 i was just never quite comfortable with it. i've been thinking of the 7mm or the .270 but im not settled yet

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Walt,..My fathr was still alive then ,.70"sYour take is pretty much what he thought,. probabaly ore deposit,..some more magnetic than others which would account for reversed poles.That compass from then on was always reversed.Also according to him apparently some of the 32ond Keystone Divsion (his outfit) under Patton had similar experioances outside Germany , Couldnt prove it by me but my Dad was no B.S.'er.Cooper you give me hope, that some day the world will identify those pontificating posturing individules.Who boldly state the obvious,.. attemtoing to mezmerize the rest of the population into attemting to ptove the negative into a catagory or maybe even ubspiecies.Your ,cooper-isms just clasicLets think of two hundred other ways to say always exception to the rule by starting with coopers law,.. Like gag me with a spoon... someon aleady said it coop you dont need to.No coop ,. no UFO ,..just an exoeriance aparently shared by others that is quite simply outside your life experiance.Thusly to follow all your previous deductive paths to you,. simply impossible.Jeeze ,.. never heard a guy like to hear himlsef talk so much and still maintain his inaliable right to be correct about everything. YUK YUKThing is your probbaly OK,.. for Hanger Jocky trying to prove he's AJ exoert on everthing.So,.. what the Hell,.. you have a nice Holiday too Coop.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OYou don't say what you will be hunting or where. Nor do we know why the '06 doesn't suit you. With those questions answered we can give you reasoned advice on what you could look at.Mark and YohanI too know that feeling of the hair standing up on the back of your neck and all the other biological warning signs when you ARE being watched/perhaps hunted/ Was in New Jersey's Ramapo Mountains armed with only my cameras and a .38 Sp. Never saw a blasted thing but man did I feel IT. I related the story to a couple of older friends who knew that area well and they told me just how lucky I was to have come out. Over the years several people have gone missing there and a Ranger of a local Boy Scout camp was killed in the mid 1960s. Supposedly there are still descendants of a mixed race colony from the time of the American Revolution living in the woods. Sounds bizarre to be sure, two hours drive from New York City an area dense and feral enough to hide in like that but to be On Topic your trusty old compass will not work well there either (due to lots of iron ore).

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!David, was that your stomach?OOPS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Walt SmithYou watch those diehards. One day soon they will be carrying one. Yep’ I can see good Ol’David peeking into his backpack to take a sneak peek at his hidden GPS. Just a matter of time!You know I got to harass David once in awhile or He thinks I’m mad or ignoring him!What’s that in you ear David? Thought it was a hearing aid? Thought I herd a woman’s voice, “TURN LEFT!”?

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from Walt Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Yohan-- I also know the feeling of discovering that your compass completly flip-floped 180 degrees and you just walked a couple miles in the wrong direction and low and behold the sun is setting and you didn't bring a flashlight!! Bad Bad feeling Huh? Happened to me in the western U.P. only thing I could figure out was I was standing right on top of a Iron deposit, I've carried a GPS ever since. And to BLUE OX-- your right, there in the big woods of Wis. and Mi. are large ones that like to watch,and follow us.I used to laugh and doubt until a five minute event one Nov.evening.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Remember Murphy’s Law? Over a 1000+ things that can go wrong.I go by SSgt. Coopers Law and it has only one law and one law only.SSgt. Coopers Law is,Murphy was an optimist!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Poles reversed? Sounds like, Yohan had a UFO encounter!The main problem here is, there are those that rely totally on electronics rather than century old ways of navigation. So many times while out in the country someone is broke down and tried to call out on a cell phone or just make a call. Those cell phones do not have the punch to get out, blocked by mountains and tropospheric ducting plays hell with the cell phones. (http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ducting.html) I would allow them to use My VHF HAM radio with 50 watts that has 167 times more punch to call out for help or just to contact someone. However I still don’t rely totally on any electronic wizardry! Yes I carry a cell phone, got my ham radio and my GPS. I know better to put any faith in any of them.Do you know how to turn a watch with hands into a compass?

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from Mark wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Yohan,Had a moment like yours hunting Hound Creek area in Montana. There was one break going up into the rocks that putting one foot forward gave me the willies. Couldn't see anything, carrying a 7mm Mag, but there that "survival" feeling that told me don't go up that creek for love or money....And Yes. You know you're being watched and somthing's plotting.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony what is it about the 06 you don't like?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OGo caveman!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony O.30-30

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To Gary ,.. Thanks for the heads up ,.. but respectfully I know /knew better than to take one look. First thing I was taught ,.. make sure no metal ( weapons, equipment or say a K-Bar kind of fighting knife) can affecr it. I still carry one of those,.. know there is beter but just used to it.I went as far as to scrape away snow set the compass on the ground that moring and step away ,.Rifle was against a tree 10 feet distant with knife snd pack ,.the compass pole waa reversed. That simple.It was at that point I considered myself lost .As one other guy said I have also been somewhat conmfused ,and walked out late or even vary late ,.. but this time I was lost.Point beingYou betcha a good compass will get you out if somehow it dosent get itself turned inside outIf you know how to use it.Which I do.But that experiance made it clear once and for allThere is always an exception to any rule .Had the sun not been visable that next morning.With my training(BELIEVE YOUR COMPASS) I would have been MORE THAN 20 miles in the wrong direction by days end.And that country is plenty big enough to do that and still lacking a zip code.This assuming no panic and rough terriane travel at aprox,.3 mph plus distance I had already traveled in the wrong direction.Still you would think a sensible person walking for say two to three hours would say Hmmm,. didnt take me this long to get in yesterday ,.. so where in the Hell am I and why,.. am I not at a road.As I say if not for the sun that morning ,. do believe I would have been in there another day,.. maybe more.If some of these "hunters"wanna play Danile Boone fine by meJust saying ,. compass is the standby ,.. but if it fits in the budget,.. it makes sene to have more than one means of determining position.Being honest 3 is better than one and 4 if you count the sun.Would bet a Kansas city steak dinner the wives and girlfriends may well agree.Also I do stand corrected ,. in remote areas ( salelite phone far better,..).To the Blue Ox ,..It was blowing like hell that night so when I went to look for tracks in the morning,..cuae i was sure something out there couldn't find anythingI can tell ya the hair on my arms is standing up just thinking about it and I don't scare easy.I didnt do any sleeping that night either ,.. Mostly becuase about evrty 25-30 minutes ,. the hair on the back of my neck got pretty stiff.and I could fell goose bupos the size of chick peas on my skin.If your "in country" in combat situation your sences will elevate ,. miltary knows this ,.. Have seen guys actually smell the enimy. Not smoke either ,.. smell there body odor from quite a distance . Whcih saved a buddys behind one day in 1969.It was a little like that,.. that night ,.. couldnt see or smell anyhing except once just a faint rank odor ,..but that could have ben my own sweat ,..However the other (sixth) sence that sometimes saves our bacon ,.. had me down right alert.Rifle moving back and forth on the dark fringe past fire light,,..The feeling or sence mitigated about an hour before light,..Yes sir Mr. Blue Ox,.. pretty damn strainge,.is all I can say.When I got back,..had two bowls of soup and slept for 14 hrs.Have not been back to that spot ,.. and i think safe to say ,.. no plans either.One other thing Blue ox,.. what I did see the next mornig were marks faded from blowing snow that looked like wing marks ,..no turkys back then that I knew of . and by dark they roost anywayYes sir ,. pretty damn strange.Have a good holiday weekend.

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from Tony O. wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

this is actually off subject, but i need advice about hunting rifles. im not new to the rifle, but i am to hunting. a lot of people recommend the 30.06 but i don't think im a real big fan of it. are there any other rifles that i can get without spending a lot of time and money trying to get too it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

CITY FOLKS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Get lost they are both packed for the trip alone with the cell phone?I’m going to be nice nice this time!LOL!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterThose Air Force guys usualy didn't need a compass or GPSThats a good one!

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Yohan,I grew up in the big woods of northern Wisconsin, and know all about getting lost in there. People i've known for years have gone in and never come out. And I myself have seen things back there that I can't explain, much less try to understand. But I can tell you that the local indians aren't bullshitting.You WERE being watched.

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

OK, all you GPS techno-geeks, if one of us technically challenged can't-turn-on-his-computer-without-help guys WERE to consider a GPS, what SIMPLE, reasonably priced units would you recommend? Most of us just want to get from point A to point B and back again. I don't need to know how to land my 747. I have pilots to do that for me.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I can barely use my computer, I sure don't need a GPS! Got lost after it snowed on me one time down here in Tennessee. Man everything looks a whole lot different after the ground is covered in white... got a Silva. Problem solved.

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from David wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Anytime I go to a new area or an area that I have a possibilty to get lost they are both packed for the trip alone with the cell phone.I also take a GPS when hunting familiar areas to mark points of interest.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

MarkBlazing or flagging a trail on public lands is not the best idea. You'll get to your 'perfect' stand at zero dark thirty only to find 547 other hunters squabbling over whose stand it is.If you do find yourself 'misplaced' in the woods then flagging is a way to help the rescue party find you as you get deeper into the forest. Seriously; if you are lost and DO have to move then flag your back trail (best bet in most cases is to stay put and build a signal fire).OrwellYes; my cell phone is GPS enabled but battery life on it is abysmal. I want to preserve every minute for calling out if needs be.Orienteering, as it used to be called, truly involves more than just map and compass. Nature gives pretty good directions if you know what you are looking at. There are times and places where compasses are not 100% reliable so knowing how to find and follow small watercourses among other techniques can still save your bacon.SA

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from Lloyd W wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

The GPS is one piece of technology I've made peace with. In combination with a compass and the general awareness of my surroundings, the GPS can save time and energy, not to mention being able to walk right back to the spot where I cached part of my elk.I've never been lost, but have been a mite bewildered for a day or so. With a GPS, you just save enough pain and anguish to make it worthwhile.

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from mark wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

No one has mentioned blazing the trail. Flagging the trail. If you're in doubt.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago
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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Amen, Dave!I'm trying to get rid of some of my piano before elk season. Colorado this year.I hunted the Crazies in 2003 and really would like to go back before I can't!

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To WA MtnHunter: Ah, but it was not always so. There was a time when I was young, and could run up a Crazy drainage with a piano on my back.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Gary SmithThose Air Force guys usualy didn't need a compass or GPS to find the NCO club or the golf course.....

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Come now, DaveWe all know that you are too old and slow to navigate the Crazy Mountains in Montana! Except maybe on horseback. That is some ball-bustin terrain and GPS is not effective in many of the ravines and valleys shielded by the steep elevations.GPS is great for saving some time and shoe leather when hunting a circuitous route back to camp or truck or returning to downed game with help.However, there is no better tool than a good compass, a map, and the knowledge to use them. I learned how to effectively use map and compass in Ranger school many moons ago. I still have my non-Army issue Silva orienteering compass from 1969. Never needs batteries. It goes around my neck every time I get out of sight of my truck.As a sidebar, I watched a friend of mine let two cow elk slip right past him in broken timber while he was head down playing around with his new GPS for about 5 minutes. He had a cow tag for the hunt! I was about 800 yards away and watched it play out through my binoculars! When I asked him about the two coes, his reply was, "What elk?". He thought I was kidding until we walked down about 150 yards and found the fresh tracks. right where I said they were. His batteries were also about gone from fat finger functioning the unit. They all use a lot of battery power every key stroke.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Gary SmithDo you know what a half-minute of angle will do to a hunter traveling 1 mile?

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WOHAN, you may have been trying to read your compass with your rifle and other metal gear on, DON"T do it. get rid of your gear and walk away from your camp a few yards befor trying to read your compass. This happens a lot, even to the military. I'm sure Clay and some of you other guys have seen this. It does not take but just a few degree swing on the compass an d you are LOST.

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Clay, sound like you know your business when it comes to your compass. That's one good thing you learn in the military. Any one not sure of them self with the compass or GPS, I'm sure you know some one who was in the military that would be glad to help you. Don't be afraid to seek help. I know i have loaned my map books out lots of times.

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Don't over look the fact that a GPS MUST obtain at least three satalites which may not always be possible in the mountains. When GPS's first became popular a lot of people were getting lost in the mountains because of this. Always carry a good compass and orient your self to your map BEFORE leaving camp. this is very important.

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

All you guys that have been in the Army latly need to brush up on using your compass, if you have not been in, there is a good book out (USING A MAP AND COMPASS) by Don Geary, (STACKPOLE BOOKS) This will help you understand the use of the compass, then get a good GPS. If you have trouble with it, fall back on the compass. I personally like my GPS, not a fancy one, but good, . I still kept my mape reading books from the Army and brush up sometimes. My advice to anyone is that a compass can be just as difficuly to use as a GPS if not trained to do so. when I was in the Air Force we didn,t do a lot of map courses, but in the Army as a combat engineer (C) (M) (Heavy), map, compass and GPS were a daily practice. Again as I've said, use your GPS and Compas until you feel confident. You don't have to use all the functions of the GPS but why not...

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Phillip, you need to check your pockets, you had a magnet some where.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Hunters and trail hikers that used a compass that got lost didn’t know how to use it in referencing it to a map such as, Magnetic north vs. true north and this my friends can put you in really deep trouble!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WOW, everyone wants to go on a guided hunt in Canada, Africa, and New Zealand or someplace like Colorado. There is no ranting against these hunters. So what’s the big deal against guided hunts? All I see on MOR and the Out Door channel is mainly guided hunts and allot are canned. So what’s the big deal about using a GPS, Guided Personal System? Ok, so I twisted it a little. I did it to prove a point. 99% of all my hunts are by myself and totally without the aid of others. My Father gave the GPS so I can show him the areas I’ll be in and I find it really useful in going to new and unknown areas. It shows boundaries for US Forests, hunting units, Wildlife Management Units and a lot more. It doesn’t show jeep trails. I can get right up close to closed to hunting areas without trespassing into them, if I choose to do so.Besides, I just might be in a location were someone needs emergency help. For me, it has happened several times. One hunter jumped down into a embankment the stock of his rifle hit the hammer of his 22 Mag revolver and drilled the center of his foot. Shattering it all the tiny bones. A rattlesnake bit another hunter; one broke his leg, a couple twisted ankles and the ones that got lost. The list goes on and on!My next rescue?It just might be you!

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from Bill Wiley wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I don't need a GPS to tell me I am lost. But I do know a $4.00 compass will get you out.

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from Todd wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I do use a GPS.. I prefer the Garmin Rino because of the convenience is has.. It has a two way radio so I can keep in touch with my hunting party (some of the old guys need help getting there deer out of the woods sometimes), it has a built in compass, built in maps, and when I see a scrap or some sort of markings I can set a way-point into it so I can take it back, load it into my computer at home and maybe even figure out where the deer are moving.. I tend to hunt in real thick, dense woods, and I know from experience that those same woods can look completely different after the sun goes down and well a GPS just doesn’t seem to notice the change in light. It always knows where I parked the ATV (as long as I remembered to enter it in)… No it’s not something I need to have, I could navigate the woods with out it, but it is nice to have around to make things easier..

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from Galen Burgett wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

This is one exception in the "shed the technology" part of hunting that I personally allow me to have. I disagree with you Mr. Petzal. GPS is a very useful tool. That said, anyone who ventures into the wild or semi-wild without knowing how to use a compass and a topographic map is a fool. I teach the kids how to navigate with a compass starting when they are 6-7 years old. They absorb GPS on their own as 21st Century kids seem to do with the latest computer chip technology. If one is going to bring on a "savage and unwarranted attack on technology", by all means sound the charge!! I would love to savage and disparage in-line muzzleloaders, compound bows, infrared/heat sensing devices of any type, game cameras, quality game management (i.e., baiting), ATVs, telescopic sights, computer aided hunting, and another couple dozen techno-nonsense things modern hunters seem to think they have to have. But, GPS is useful and after learning to use a compass, use of a GPS unit should be encouraged.

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from wolf wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

cell phone ha ha where do you hunt new york city? i guide bear hunters and lake trout fisherman in lake superior area cell phones 30-40 percent service at base,out in the sticks zero,satelite phones are better ,but ify too,God old compass almost always 90 percent magnetic deposits of iron ore tend to mess them up sometimes ,gps works on the water but dense woods and ravines give them the slushes alaska after anchorage cell phones are dead weight too..

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from Orwell wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

SilverArrow your cell IS a GPS

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I got lost in Vermont too.It was after leaving a bar in Burlington, years later I'm still not sure about getting back to my girl's place at UVM. Boilermakers ugg!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Spent a night in the deer woods once ,.. becuse (some how) compass had poles reversed.,Yup you read right,.. poles eversed ..between the time I left camp in th emorning and about 2 that afternoon..am certain of this becuase I took a reading before I went in,.the sun was visable and in th east.I also had topo maps from US Geological survey which were usless due to nearly zero visiability later in the day.This occured on one of a number of Wisconsin hunts in back in the 70's.Who ever said"Northern Wisconsin is big woods is correctIf you get to know a couple of the older local hunters ( tough nut to crack I can say ) they will tell you people over the years, "went in" and just didnt come out.Never heard from again,.. searches found no rifls no clothing ,. nothing ,.. just gone.Espeically in the earlier part of last century. (Years prior to WWII).Local American Indians say, there are things in those woods people arent meant to deal with.I will say, I saw no Sasquatches or spirits that night ,.. but I did have the feeling I was being watched ,.after I decided to get a fire going and wait for morning. Night comes quickly in that kind of weather one minuts its light and the next ,.. it aint.On a grey November day, no sun thick woods,. visiablilty limited by falling snow, no land marks save a tiny fire tower 4-5 miles away that you can't see,.. it remarkably all begins to look the same.You cant back track cuse the snow started not long beofre you decide to camp.Without a compas You cant tell one direction from the other.Its nearly dark and if your thinking straight at all ,. you know your stuck.,.I would advocate taking all the equipment you can afford and reasonnably carry,.Compass off course but gps, cell, maps what ever. Learn to use them all before you go.During the night weather cleared thank God and it got windy & cold.Still, with a fire going a loaded gun and a couple candy bars,.. figured I would walk out,.. .. the next day,... somwhere.However according to my compass the next morning . the sun was coming up in the west.I had been trained by the boys who know( ground recon ) to BELIEVE YOUR COMPASS,.. so one might imaging the mental gyrations which followedBut finally wasn't buying the compass.. GPs and cells not here yet.So decided go by the sun,.. if that changed over night probabaly wouldnt matter anyway.Three hours later I was within about a mile of our camp. Had been going the wrong direction ( headed for cananda) for about 1 1/2 hours before deciding to wait it out.Kept that compass for over 25 years to show people who just could not believe it,..Finally tossed it last year looking back should have held on to it.Just goes to showNever, never,.. and never always but when your hunting in big woods or skydiving ,.. have at least two chutes.

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from John wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I love GPS. Now if they would just add the darn feature where you crank a handle and it charges up an internal backup battery. Why in the world don't ALL emergency equipment devices have a feature like that??

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from buckstopper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Growing in up in SE Arkansas, trying to find your duck hole, in the dark, in flooded timber(Bayou Meto WMA) where everything looks the same, everyone and their cuzin' has a trail marked, it would have been a good thing to have a GPS, could have kept some people from wandering into someone elses honey hole. I'll take technology whenever its affordable and available. Of course, know how to use a compass, look at maps, scout your area, but as they say time is money. I'd rather hunt than be lost. I've been confused at times where I should have been, but always knew where I was at. When I was very young,(7 or 8), my dad would take me squirrel hunting with his favorite dog, Rip, and we would walk several miles (before the days of leased land) through the briars and the creeks treein' squirrels until we got our limit and always we would alway come out of the woods at the pick-up truck where we started. I was always amazed how that happenned. As I got older I discovered his engineers compass in his huntin' coat. Now huntin'in the Alabama woods. I got a GPS a couple of years ago, still have maps and a compass like dad's, but I can go straight to my tree stand in the pitch dark and not shine a light all over creation looking for markers and such, take less time and making less noise. Got time to climb safely and settle down in the climber before the woods come alive in the morning light. I think a few extra AA bat'rys won't weight down my daypack too much.

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from Michael wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I carry a GPS and 2 compasses, maps of the area and keep notes as I travel (distance, time, terrain). I have been on long trips into the wilderness and both are a must have in my book.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

"introduced" sorry

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from youngun wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I just got introducet to hunting so im trying to learn every thing i can.but i have one question,sorry if its dumb but is it the red needle or the the silver needle that points north?

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Same here on every count, Matt, but the cheapo GPS units are tempting me...

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from Matt Mallery wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I guess I'm real old fashioned because I use a compass, don't have a robo duck, don't have an ATV, and don't use trail camares.

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from Thomas Hall wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I succumbed to the gadget mongers mumbo-jumbo last fall and bought a Lowrance i-finder expedition-c.So far the most useful features for me have been getting a set of coordinates that I can transfer to a map, and to keep track of my position when I'm hunting on public lands. (Here in Minnesota land doesn't have to be posted because the no nonsense people of that state feel that if you don't know where you are then you shouldn't be there in the first place.)My biggest disappointment is that the level of detail in what Lowrance call Topo maps falls far short of the USGS Topo maps that some of us are familiar with. For example it doesn't differentiate between field and swamp, and in my area where about half of the land is swamp that's a major shortcoming.And finally, it's a terrible thing for the maps to be propriatary. National Geographic makes really good digital Topo maps but they aren't compatable with my Lowrance GPS. At the very least, for safety's sake, you should be able to plug any map into any GPS unit and get the basic navagation functions.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Ol'Thrasher is a over 10 point buck that destroys trees with his rubs.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

ListonYes I’m old fashion, never before would I use a GPS, I really didn’t care for it. I am finding locations now that have been overlooked by deer hunters for decades. Talk about a couple hot spots for this deer season, WOW! I even found Ol’Tharshers getaway route! A couple weekends I was 4-wheling and my ATV was acting up. I was able to find a trail I never knew it existed to get on a main road. It would have been a lllooooonnnngggg walk out if I didn’t have it and if broke down.

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from liston wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

GPS systems arent just for hunting, they are also great for locating fishing spots on later trips

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Mark, what’s really funny when some clown comes up pretending to be you and says your trespassing!

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from Mark wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

MY first experience with GPS was on a bush plane in Alaska. The Beaver’s instrument panel looked like Swiss cheese except for very basic gauges and a GPS. My last experience with GPS was watching a couple of curmudgeons look at the thing, ponder what the GPS was saying, ignored it and proceeded to get lost. I don’t own a GPS. I’m too old fashion with a good compass with a sight line and a topo map.BTY—I found it curious other hunters have been having problems with “Regulators” policing lands often not owned, nor do they seem to have any clear cut idea where property lines are. It’s coming to the point where these modernize “range detectives” have placed posted signs on my land, or attempted to “regulate” me and other hunters off neighbors’ property, or my property, where we hunters have permission to hunt. New York State has very definite laws guarding against this harassment. One, it’s illegal to post land not own. Two, the landowners is the only authorized person to call “trespassing”.All in all, a very odd situation since access really isn’t a hunting issue in this area. E.g. Lots of Mennonite farms. Mennonites don’t post their land. I can see myself calling State LE’s on these “regulators” this coming season.

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from waltsmith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

The problem most people have with GPS's is they make the biggest mistake first.They buy the most expensive one they can find with the most gadgets you can get on one.Honestly you don"t need all the extra B.S. that comes on them.The one I have is the Magellan Explorist 100. It costs around $90.00 at your local Walmart and it is so simple even an "old fart like Dave" can use it. I still carry a compass for back up but I always carry the gps with me know because its so nice to be able to mark a new hotspot and be able to go right to it in a straight line the next year. Take the money you'll save on the expensive units and buy more ammo.

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from Eric wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

"Every year I would stumble across an individual saying I’m on private land, when in fact it’s National Forest. It’s great to whoop out my Lowrance iFinder® Hunt C GPS Unit and prove to them that there lying.Before I got my gps, I would windup on the backside of some hotheaded landowner threatening to shoot me, take away my gun and call the Game Warden."I also hunt an area that is part county, state, and federal land, with private land inter-mixed. I running across more and more land owners trying to claim public land as their own and even posting it.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

EricBe careful of buying a gps online. I was at the Bass Pro in Springfield Mo and it was $47 cheaper and it had the latest software to go with it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

David, what did you do/hunt in Costa Rican rainforest?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

It’s funny to watch a hunter with a compass holding it next his gun barrel or down at his belt buckle!Got a thousand monkeys jumping on my key board!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

P.S.It’s funny to watch a hunter with a compass holding it need his gun barrel or down at his belt buckle!

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from Eric wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

While GPS costs to much for me to spend on it for what I need it for, I would love to have one. Mainly for the reason that I now live out of state where I hunt and being a public land hunter, that as been forced out of areas I know like the back of my hand it would be nice. Mostly for knowing exactly where members of my group are and the fact I am unable to go on many scouting trips due to time.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Have you ever wondered how those folks in a swamp or bayou ever get around yet alone in the Amazon jungle?When I was younger, I had the ability to track across unknown country to go to a location without any aid. Kind of like internal navigation. The old saying is true, use it or lose it!

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

In reference to Mike Strehlow's excellent comments above, I have to agree. Kidding aside, and despite the fact I'm often accused of being a Luddite I actually think GPS can be a pretty damn useful tool for hunters even in places where it's almost physically impossible to get lost for any length of time.For example, the public hunting area where I do the majority of my deer hunting is around 15,000 acres of contiguous land, mainly rolling mixed grass sand-sage prairie interspersed by a number of fairly steep draws leading to a riparian corridor along a typical prairie river. It's not flat by any means and parts of it are downright rugged, but the Bob Marshall it's not. Even the most talcum-soft of the hordes of metro-area hunters who converge here every rifle season could, if lost, choose literally any direction, start walking, and within a few hours they may lose their pride but they'd find themselves on a section line road, a lease road or a highway (provided of course they don't step on a rattler first...)No compass or GPS needed.But at 4 a.m. in the morning when you're trying to find that one perfect little spot after a two-mile walk up and down a bunch of tree-choked draws is where I think GPS has the potential to shine.I know my particular WMA very well but I don't know how many times I've gotten a little turned around in the dark and ended up somewhere other than where I wanted to be.As there gets to be more and more pressure and competition on public areas I think little things like GPS will become more and more common.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

You know when you’re in trouble?When a big brown bear is carrying away your backpack and it has all your stuff in it including map and compass. Not to mention that your britches are down around your knees.True story!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Dave PetzalNorthern Quebec?I bet you had a blast!Got a few pic’s of the hunt?At night, did the roof of your tent look like it was on fire?To tell you the truth, I really wouldn’t be using one, but my Father got it for my birthday and insisted that I would use it, so I can show him the locations I will be at. When you hunt by yourself, as you know it’s best to let someone know the area you will be in.Besides, if I didn’t pick on you, you would think I’m mad at you!Equal opportunity harassment! Not to be confused with the Office PC variety.338 RUM? My ears are still ringing! LOL!

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To Clay Cooper: No, I was not kidding, I really don't want one.The only place I've found a compass useless is way up in northern Quebec on the Laurentian Shield, where there's so much iron underfoot that your needle just spins in despair. Aside from that, the places where I'd least like to navigate are:1. The eastern end of Anticosti Island.2. The Crazy Peaks in Montana.3. The Costa Rican rainforest.

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from Phillip wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Only got truly lost once... in the Adirondacks of upper New York, the Forever Wild area, if anyone knows of it.Way back in the Hemlock swamps on a dull, rainy, grey day, is a bad place to get turned around. I had topos and a compass, but without any visibility to landmarks it becomes pretty pointless. It becomes even worse when every time I'd turn 90 degrees, the compass needle swung with me. So when south becomes north, then becomes west or east... well, orienteering gets a little tricky. Best I can figure is there were some kind of iron deposits or something and they totally whacked my compass.I finally settled my head and trusted my instincts until I reach a spot that was open enough to mark a high peak and match it to my topo. With that in mind, and a good guess, I was able to recross the only maintained trail in the wilderness and find camp.Point being, even the old-school stuff can fail you. A GPS would probably not have worked well under that canopy of hemlocks either.But I have GPS now, and it can be a pretty handy tool. I'm not real thrilled about ever staking my life on something that uses batteries, but it has its place.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Come-on David, you know you want one. I know you do!I like to take you to a few places I hunted. Your compasses would be absolutely worthless! The only thing that is 100% reliable is a good topo map and know how to read it! A gps works excellent to, provided you have plenty of batteries to feed it and it doesn’t fail!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Ditto's Black Rifle addictWhen it comes to orienteering, I know I can give the best the run for there money. But with less time or no time to prescout an area, it makes it very difficult to hunt in area that’s boarded by National Forest, absolutely no reference points, 50 yard or less visibility and riddled with private land. Every year I would stumble across an individual saying I’m on private land, when in fact it’s National Forest. It’s great to whoop out my Lowrance iFinder® Hunt C GPS Unit and prove to them that there lying.Before I got my gps, I would windup on the backside of some hotheaded landowner threatening to shoot me, take away my gun and call the Game Warden. I would give them my humble apology and say I didn’t know. Then I would tell them, I’ve been Federally incarcerated for 20 years and a lot of things have changed. This scares the hell out of out of them and they instantly back down. After a couple of minutes I would let them know that I was in the Military and not in jail at anytime. What can I say? It works and I’ve been given the permission from a few of them to return to hunt.One more thing, if you’re really good at orienteering, you can dive straight into an area with little or no problem. Besides, in case of an emergency, I can press two buttons on my gps that marks the location as “MAN OVERBOARD” and it will guide me by providing several screens of going back to that location with help.

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from Mike Diehl wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I mostly do not use a GPS. I find it *is* useful for knowing the locations of dirt access roads and turn-offs from dirt access roads when I'm driving in some unfamiliar place.But when I hunt it's quad maps and two compasses. Sort of funny 'cause where I live now the range is so open and the mountain peaks so obvious it feels impossible to get lost. Yet I always have my brunton and my old pocketwatch style brass compass. I'd never be without them.I learned to use a compass the same place Dave did. In the Maine woods.

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Back when I lived in Wyoming, whenever there was an unexpected snowstorm (which can happen any time of the year), you'd hear of elk hunters lost in the mountains. Wyoming's Bighorn Mountains are a good place for a hunter to carry a GPS device; there aren't a lot of roads, the ground is more than big enough to get lost in, and a compass loses a lot of value if you can't see landmarks due to inclement weather.On one of my last Wisconsin hunting trips, my friend and I drove past a hunter walking on the side of the road, dragging his gun behind him by the barrel. We picked him up and took him back to town (he was still about ten miles out), and he told us that he was a lifelong resident of the county, went into woods like he had a thousand times before (and northern Wisconsin is BIG woods), got turned around, used his compass, and came out, safe, but on the wrong fire road. By the time we found him, he said the water in the ditch was starting to look good to him. His compass got him out, but again, if you are completely surrounded by trees that go on for miles and miles in all directions, there's not much you can orienteer on with it. If you are lost the compass will keep you from walking in circles, but you have to have a good idea of the direction you wish to travel in, and you may come out a ways away from where you went in; this happened to me once, and I know how to use a compass, something not every 'outdoorsman' can honestly say. A GPS device could be a handy thing to have in big woods.That all said, I know of guys who take their GPS units with them when they hunt litle 40 acre stands of woods that are surrounded by farmers' fields. They do this because they think that GPS units are fun to use, and and so they use them whenever they can. The little geek that lives in most of us can relate to this. So long as the earth possesses a magnetic field, a compass is the most reliable thing you can carry, but "fun" defies arguments to the contrary. Carry your GPS and have fun with it; it can save your life, or at least get you back in time for dinner. But keep a compass in your pocket.

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from Matt in MN wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Glad you're posting again Chad. You crack me up!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Agreed; mostly.1. Map and Compass should be a required part of every hunter safety course.2. Three compasses come out with me every time and yes I do take a bearing once in a while.3. Cell phone isn't going to work everywhere either, especially in rotten weather. Duh.4. Getting lost IS going to happen to most of us if we spend enough time in the woods.5. Getting 'un-lost' is more about state of mind than technological wonders.6. Almost all survival situations are more about presence of mind than a buttpack, backpack or wheelbarrel load of Geek Gadgets.BUTWere I to have a heart attack while hunting or come upon another person having a medical emergency in the woods the cell phone is very comforting to have. It would also be nice to guide rescuers in via GPS coordinates.Just my $.02SA

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from Dennis Crabtrey II wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

GPS is great if you can get in an open area to get reception. You should always plan your routes around good landmarks and learn to use a compass properly. I got lost once flying in Iraq when my GPS on the Aircraft died. All I had for reference was a compass, a big lake and a very rough map of where i was going. Good thing it was dark. We got there on time, but now I fly with a spare Garmin Foretrex 101 (about $100) excellent GPS for the money. Small, light, and runs on AAAs. Always have a backup!!!

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I don't own a GPS but I do see the value in them. I do carry a cell phone and a compass. Lucky for me I've not been lost (so far), but I try to be prepared just in case.Hell, F&S should do their yearly "Your compass and how the hell to use it" article and the follow that up with "GPS, necessity or high tech hype?".

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Silly people...who needs GPS OR the compass when you have a cell phone? Like, duh! Just text some rescue-type person and have them come pick you up! There, problem solved.

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

A good GPS might be a nifty little gadget to have around, once you figure out how it works. But Murphy will always be there to make it crap out on you whenever you need it the most. (you guys know what i'm talking about.) I'll take the compass and mirror, the landmarks, and the stars every time.

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from Greg Morris wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I have to agree with Dave here, mostly. I like my GPS just fine for navigation on the water (and marking great fishing spots) but I've found that they are nothing but extra weight when you are in thick woods or mountainous terrain. I carry a GPS out into the wilderness sometimes, but I won't rely on it. I usually keep a topo of the area and always a good compass with me.I've been lost in the wilderness _with_ my GPS, because it wouldn't sync up with the satellites. But using a compass and a good overall knowledge of the terrain, I got un-lost rather quickly.

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from Dan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I agree a compass is the most important thing to have and know how to use. I'm 27, and have never used a GPS but I think they can be a great addition and safety item to have. I also grew up hunting in the thick Maine woods where my father taught me all about bearings and knowing landmarks. Something I've added in recent years are aerial images, topo maps, and a good recent Delhomme atlas...that when taken together shows recent logging activity, new roads, etc. That way, I always know what direction to head in to hit a road, brook, pond, to get myself the hell out!Here in CT on the other hand, if you walk a mile in any direction and you're on a paved highway, so getting lost around here isn't a big deal. However, if I ever get out west, I think I'll invest in a good GPS, but will be sure to bring along a compass or two.Dan

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from Black Rifle addict wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Dave-I agree with you that the compass is a very effective tool in the wild, but being old school when it comes to GPS is like you not using a computer.This is not going to happen. Besides, it the case of an emergency, GPS allows for down right pinpoint accuracy needed to guide help to a location.I'm 50-ish, and if I can be taught to use a GPS-ANYONE CAN!ps-it's a great tool to have on the boat, too!

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from PigHunter wrote 3 years 10 weeks ago

This is an old rant of yours but I'll comment anyway because of your obvious lack of reasoning. I don't see an issue with using a GPS as another tool to fix location. Extra batteries, compass, and map should also be carried as a back-up. When it's cloudy, dark, or thick cover that's flat there is nothing of reference in sight to shoot azmuths. If you don't backtrack that compass is no way as accurate in fixing position as a GPS. If you want to get to your treestand from a new direction, in the dark, that compass will cause you much more time and I wager you will still be playing with it as the sun is rising. Finally, if you do need to call in help, a GPS fix will get rescurers to your position a lot quicker. Please think a little more before writing such trash.

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from Dylan wrote 6 years 31 weeks ago

It's good have knowledge of "old school" methods such as maps and compass, but GPS are very handy. I am an environmental science major in college, and have done a lot of wildlife research in many areas (including Costa Rica as mentioned above). GPS are very handy in research for their ability to pinpoint sample locations in the field. I also just recently started taking a GPS out hunting with me. Most GPS have functions on them that most people know nothing about. For example, you could locate an awesome new treestand location, mark it on your GPS (waypoint), and then return early in the morning(while it's still dark) without wasting any unneccessary time. When hunting you can also mark the last place you saw the animal wait until it bleeds out and then return to that exact spot to continue tracking, or if you are in really rough terrain you can mark downed game then go get someone else in your party to help you drag it out. Another great function of the GPS is a track log which takes a waypoint every couple of seconds, you can follow these tracks on your GPS whereever you need to go. If you buy ARS GIS software for your computer you can create your maps with your favorite hunting locations. For example you have several sites that you want to hunt on this three thousand acre property. You take your GPS out while scouting, mark the points, return home, and download the points on Arc GIS. YOu can then download a raster (aerial map) of your county, and those points you took will come up on the map. Then you print off the map, and you have an easy to follow map of all the places you wanted to hunt. I understand that there are instances where a GPS loses reception, but in those circumstances you should know how to use maps and compasses. Most the GPS are pretty good, and are getting more and more accurate. Your GPS also has a compass screen(which isn't affected by iron deposits). It's always a good idea to mark base camp or your vehicle on your GPS. As mentioned before rescue teams can locate your GPS. I also am not a big proponent on tech advances for hunting, but the GPS is a good tool. It doesn't give you the upper hand in the hunt but does give you the upper hand in safety.Good luck hunting to everyone this fall!

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from wolden wrote 6 years 31 weeks ago

northern wis ,big woods ,has lots of hunters who had the ufo or compass pole reversed thing i guide seen itmaybe 25 times over last decade thing is you can follow tracks in snow with same brand compass next day and nothinghappens,

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from Russ wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

I use it because of one question:How do I tell someone exactly where I am or was?I volunteer for DNR and need to describe precisely were I found invasive plant patches. I also need to find the exact location of photo-monitoring camera placements, especially in places where strollers, hikers, hunters and angry bucks have destroyed the markers.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Tony O. AS for the 30-06 in everone's hands, got to be a good reason, right? As a firearm thats been around l00 years and still going strong, it has to be a great caliber. Forget the WSM's and WSSM's as they gonna be short lived,(plus ammo will be impossible to find, re-loads only) mark my word. Buy your self a quality 06 and then you can hunt all of N.America, exclude the Brown/Griz's. AS ammo available from 55 grs to 220 factory made. I have several 06's and I;ve killed small game up to a 6 x 6 Elk with a l65 or l80 gr bullet.AS for recoil, if you buy a syn stock, add about 2 lbs of lead (old wheel wts) to the stock wrapped in foam. If a Wood stock, bore a 3/4 hole and add lead shot(l ot 2 lbs) I did that to a brand new REM 700 CDL walnut stock ( killed me to see the hole go in), but now I can handle the recoil like a 243.My gun weighs about 9 l/2 lb, scoped, loaded, and love the added wt at the butt end, as then I can hold the front end more steady. If the 06 is not your choice, then get a 25-06,(l20 gr factory) a flat shoting gun, little recoil. I killed a Lope last yr In Wy at 325 yds with the 25-06 and in MT killed a 4 x 4 deer with the 06 using l80 gr. at 345 yds, both one shot kills.(I was hunting both Deer/Elk then)I;m repeating myself, as I;ve stated the above many times on this Blog. Again,the 06 will suit you great. A Savage is a good firearm, add a mid-price $500.00 scope, mine all carry NIKON Monarch's). I;m a Rem. guy myself, so all my hunting guns are 700's of all calibers I use. But for the $$$ a Savage will be great, they have a Walnut gun out now, looks like the Rem BDL. Plus Savage has a 3 position slide safety, which is good.Rem. has just come out with a Black Syn stocked Model 715,( all calibers) that should be a good firearm, reasonabled priced,less than 500 bucks. with Det Mag.Let us know on this Blog what firearm you do purchase,will be interesting on your choice. Good Luck, shoot a lot and straight.PS; Scopes: Forget the scops at Wall- World, buy the best scope you can afford, be what-ever brand you choose. I just like the Nikons,@98% light gathering, been most successful for me. If you go west, by all means, buy a Rangefinder, as one is a must to be successful out there,

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from East of Miss; wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Ricardo. Thanks for the info. I may decide to give Mexico a try next year, if I do I surely will contact you thru this Blog for further information. My plans are already set for this fall's hunting trips. Just not enough hunting days or Money$$$ available for me to hunt all I would love to. Got spoiled on the Rocky Mountains many years ago (l990) and feel lost each fall if I don;t go out. HAve made some contacts with disabled clubs and guys who will take a disabled guy out. Only problem I have so far is the draw for the areas I would like to hunt hunt. Where I hunt(privatr property) , tags no problem, as the folks I hunt with do help me out in that dept. Here in the deep south, we got zillions of W-tails, Coyotes, rabbits, Foxes, some pigs, few Quail. We plant cover crops for the small game and also food for the w-tails to keep them in our area we hunt. Hunting areas are getting harder every year to find.So much development, the woods taken out and paved or a new home built.In you country, am sure you got lots of game. Man would I love to tag a Elk/Mulie in Mexico. AS stated earlier, if see my way to come to Mexico , will be in contact. Thanks again for replying to my questions, been most helpful.PS; If I did make it to Mexico, what are the chances of you hunting with me?????? as I;m sure you know where the game is.

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

RR of Old Mexico:What's the hunting like in central and southern Mexico? I only hear of the Northern Areas.Do you shoot and gamble on live Pigeons? I learned the hard way not to live pigeon shoot against Spanish and Italian speaking types. :-)

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from arch wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

I know all the GPS technical problems - GDoP, latency, wormholes, vulnerability to repeater jamming, battery life, limitations in urban and rugged terrain. I own two Garmin units and a Uniden GPS radar detector. It's a good nav aid, but learn to live without it.One of the most useful features of my eTrek is the "Find" menu. If you do not know where you are, push "find" and select the "nearest" option. It gives you a range and bearing to the nearest town. Knowing that, you can find the town, reverse the bearing and put your finger on where you are, or you can start walking in that direction, or you can tell rescue precisely where you are.The biggest problem is that users learn rely on it. They fail to familiarize themselves with the local terrain and keep track of what direction they have traveled, how fast and for how long. Also, they do not learn to map read.

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from Ricardo Rodríguez wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

East of Miss.The best place to get big wt buks in all Mexico is in the surrounings of Nuevo Laredo, just crossing the bridge from Laredo, TX. There they are as you wish they were, big and abundant.There are many places where you can hunt Elk, but only as an exotic, in fenced rranches. Mule Deer you can hunt in the North Western states of Chihuahua and Sonora. There are a few berrendos (antilopes) too, but are protected.For a foreign hunter, an outfitter, usually the owner of the managemente unit or a person specialized in that area, is necessary to make the paperwork for the hunting license, required by the state you hunt in, and for the temporary import of the guns, required by the Defense. The hunting license in Mexico is not like in the U.S., it is more like a driving license (no car included), so it is cheap. The cost of a Mule deer can vary greatly, but must be more expensive than for white tail. They can let you hunt for the full season (two months) the tags you bought, only valid for that ranch, or you can pay for each trip like in a hotel and pay extra for each deer you kill; or go to a "guaranteed" hunt where the deer are so abundant or are fenced so you can´t have not a chance. Many ranch owners are organized under a group called ANGADI (Natl. Diversified Cattle Org.), and they could have a list of providers that would serve foreigners in a regular basis.Hope this is of help.Best regards.

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from Thor Jphnson wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

It is often asked, How did Buddy Hinton of Sturmgewehr.com become the New Left's foremost political guru? How did this immigrant cobbler's son become the hottest consultant/shaman/whipcrack to top world leaders and the haute art/fashion crowd on this or any planet?Why do the famous and not so famous movers and shakers, world leaders, trend-setters, dictators and democrats, Hollywood glamourites and hep young Xgen streetpeople beat a path to his ornate carved mahogany doors? Why are these A-list celebs and notorious oppressors and everyone else from J!mmie Carter to Papa Soros to Vlad Putin to Bobby Trendy to Hillary and the Pope lined up to get into Buddy Hinton's Euro-fab digs in the incredible old Sutro mansion outside of Frisco?It could be the incredible fried pies and the world class wine cellar, but it's not. It could be the treasures of sculpture and avante-gard furnishings, but it's really not that, either. The whole-house Bose system? No, not even that. So... what is it about this itinerate cobbler's son become raconteur and fashion policeman to the world's glitterati that makes him the center of today's Powerpeoples' world?

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from East of Miss; wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Thanks Ricardo. Would have thought in your living area you would have some Elk, etc. But little knowledge of Mexico and hunting. Have wanted to hunt for a big,wide rack deer in Texas, where you see dozens of bucks a day and just choose the one you want. Where I hunt in the Rockies, many w-tails, but a 4 x 4 about it in the l6 to 20" range. We have many W-tails here in the deep south, but horn growth is minor. Need a good culling job on some Does and sub- standard Bucks. My Son and I own a small farm, about 90 A total(but access to about 400 joining ours),so last year we started killing many deformed bucks . If no improvement in quality of Bucks, then will begin to kill some young does and leave the 1l/2 yr bucks alone and see what developes in couple years. For the Non-Res. what do licenses cost to hunt Mexico? Elk if any available or Mulies? Thanks again for the reply. Good hunting. Shoot-um-straight and often. The old Gunslinger down south.

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from Ricardo Rodríguez wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

To East of the Miss. Sportsman and Zermoid:As I was saying, we were not so lost really, but the vegetation and weather didn´t help us to find our way out. I have read a little about orientation but there was no landmark near or way to see it for that matter. A simple stick in the ground casting a shadow would help us find north and our way out, but it was too cloudy. Our main error was to walk looking to the ground to find a blood track to the deer. The main concern was not to waste time getting out and save us the scratching of our skin and clothes, because if you walk around the bushes into the clear spots to avoid harm you end walking in circles.Sorry, but I am in North East Mexico, not Texas. I used McAllen TX, a border town, as a reference, but it is about the same country and game here as in South Texas. You can hunt White tailed deer, Javalina, bobcat, cottontail,jackrabbits, bobwhite and scale quails, turkey, doves, specially white winged, very popular among americans, and in winter we have waterfowl as pintail and canadian goose among others. There are some cougars, and black bears in the Sierra, but they are protected.For more than 8 years, all hunting has to be arranged by the landlords in UMAs or Management Units, which get the permits and tags for the game. You can get a deer hunt from about 1,000 Dlls up to 10,000 Dlls or more depending of the area you are and the facilities, and if you hunt fenced or free range. The outfitter shall get you the permits for the guns.It could seem that this privatization of hunting would disminish the number of hunters, but it seem to be all the contrary, as many more tags have become available, although it has become more expensive for those who used to hunt in private lands only with the owners´ permit and a license.

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from Zermoid wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Make a mental note of which way the road runs (N/S, E/W, NE/SW, Whatever) and the general direction you are heading into the woods in (N, S, E, W, if you want to be more precise go ahead but this has always served me) now if the road goes N/S and you headed East into the woods it don't take rocket science to figure out going West will get you back onto the road, at this point you will either recognize the road or not. If you recognize it your probably between where you parked your truck and where you came from, go in the same direction as you drove in. If it looks so foreign to you that you wonder if your even still on Earth then you are probably past where ya Parked, or were too stupid to LOOK at the road you drove in on a few hour earlier.Fairly simple and has worked for me for the last 30 or so years of hunting, I've always gotten back without Search & Rescue getting involved, had a few LONG hikes back but have always figured out just how screwed up I was and figured the way back by stopping and thinking, how many turns, how far I went, and knowing the general area (this means drive the area you plan on hunting a few days ahead in daylight and get familiar with the roads).I also carry a cell phone, no I do not count on it working when needed as it usually dosen't, but they have a GPS chip in it, which should help in locating my remains in case I do something incredibly Stupid while out hunting (or someone else does something incredibly Stupid and I'm on the receiving end) as my family will be calling someone to go retrieve me if I'm not home shortly after dark!

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from East of the Miss. sportsman wrote 6 years 32 weeks ago

Can understand being lost from Texas. We got a guy from Texas in Washinton D.C. who's been lost for 8 or more years. Hopefully, he can find his way back in 2009. Had to point that out for the 3 guys lost in Texas. They should not feel bad, at least they had enough sense to figure out a way to find home. All my youth, I wanted to be a Cowboy. too bad I never was able to do so.Now too old to even consider such a venture. What i would give to have bought a ranch back in the 50's and now would be able to hunt every day, plus love those Horses and cattle. Now I just hunt the states i can draw and watch many out-door-hunting TV shows.PS: do you know the price of NR hunting licenses for the better hunting areas of Texas, also, other than Deer, what native game is available in Texas

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from Ricardo Rodríguez wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I once got myself kind of lost, together with a brother and a cowboy in my own ranch, about 150 miles W-SW of McAllen, TX, nothing really serious, we were never in any danger and knew that walking in any direction would take us to a barbwire fence sooner or later, but it is quite irritating (and humiliating)not knowing where the hell you really are.We were following a wounded deer into a wooded area the cows never enter, so it was pretty dense with mezquite, huizache and other bushes with a lot of thorns about 9 feet high. After half hour of following possible tracks we desisted and found out we didn´t know where the truck was. The bush was so dense we could not see more than 60 feet in any direction and needed to go thru the thorny branches or under them to walk in a straigh line, so what we really wanted was to find the shortest way to our vehicle to avoid all the scratching, walking 5 minutes instead of 1 hour or more. The sky was heavy with clouds and no shadow was cast in the ground to find north. The cowhand got to climb an ebano tree that surpassed the surrounding trees and distingished the ranch house tin roof, 2 miles away, so we figured out our position and walked out to the road where the truck was, bearing for the fartest tall tree we could see and looking back to the ebano tree for reference. We ended only 200 yards away from our truck, but could have ended 1 mile away from it onto the nearest wire fence, all scratched up.Since that day I always carry a tiny water compass in my cloths when hunting.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony O ,.. you need some help,..which is fine ,There are a lot of good guys (maybe even a few women) on this here blog,.. who know a lot ,.. .. who will willingly helpHunteres (well sportsman) are like thatIf you ask they will do thier best to help you.Usually to the estent that you become nervous and jerky in your own home wondering who will try to help next.But fear not Tony O,.. once they deteemine you are well and truly launched as a sportsman.They will then begin to argue with you ,.. which of cours is when you know you have truly arrved. YUK YUKOne because they like it and two because there are less and less of us. But I think mostly because they are willing to share ,.. which I can tell you is a rare thing ,.. in and of any group.As SSgnt cooper said,.. gut it where it falls ,.. unless of course you happen to drop one,.. in down town (where ever) ,..Which I can then unequivically say is gonna be bad,..Did that once when i was a sapling ,.. made one hellova shot(in my humble opinion) on a small buck ,.. but the deer refused to die ,..Said wounded deer then ran accross a shallow river and into town.Where upon it fetched up deader than a three day old mackeral against a local Realors front door ,..As you may immagine ,.. given the fact that most husbands were occupied in the woods in a similar undertaking to mine.The more tender gender were at the time the majority of the occupants of said commercial establishment.Not positive,... but,..the screaming ansd swooning ,.. may have reached unprecedented levels,. which of course was made imeasurably worse by my subsequent 16 year old countennece looming ( from what they said) LARGE ,..sfter following the blood trail from the woods from behind the establishment .Appearing of couse to shoot yet again,.. the poor dead ( bamby) deer with what they later called a HUGE GUN ( 98 mauser)Yup ,.. couldnt even get my girlfired (who just did not fathom why i wouil track a wounded der to the local Realors office with loaded gun) to talk to me for maybe 10 days after that ,.All female resedents being of the opinion I had turned into a crazed blood thirsty killer.Some of which Tony O is true ,.. Looking back ,..I would have tracke that deer into the ocval ofice ,.. such is the instinct one aroused.But that of cours would be anorther story .If you do unfortunatly happen upon that scenario.I would then suiggest you put out urgent message to one PATRICkMC MANNUS ,. ( of a different publication) who may well have experiance in this arena.As I do not ,.. well just that one time .But if not he himslef ,.. possibley his sister"The Troll",.. may have improtant input,.YUK YUKYou should also be thankfull Tony O that your lovley wife is directionally or positionally challeged ,.What this means is ,.. short of placing one of those exploding anckle braclets on you,.. set to go off 15 minutes after hunting hours.She will not be able to tell if you stop off (briefly) at( Bruen-hildas Fied biscuts,.. mystery meat and spirits ) ,.. to compare notes with the hunting brethren that you will certianly meet and become aquainted with.Yes Tony O you are embarking upon a temendously fullfilling and speritually enlightneg path,..one word to the wise ,.. hunt a few miles from town,..Best RegardsYohan

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Clay: at-87 deg, how does it feel with-out any balls? As fo fiearms, I'd neve fire my weapon unless a matter of life or death, as that metal will burst all to pieces at -87. In fact in Colorado, Kremlin) when Temps reach -40 school buses don;t run, as axels will break at that and below temps. At 72 ys old, and many hunters younger, -87 is too cold to even begin to stay warm with layer upon layer of cloths. I have ample cold weather gear, but none to handle -87 at night and no FIRE. I;ve hunted the Rockies at -20 degs; wind of 25MPH and thats cold enough. Little time in the outside, more time spent in the tent, etc. I plan on Montana this fall, tell me what cloths to take along for -87,OK. no bull S---, please. Old gun-slingerin the South-Land

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

87 below? Clay we need to go to Alaska! Forget the Rockies...

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I'm missing something.How can a person get lost and not figure something out returning them to civilization riding an ATV?Also, I find it difficult to believe people blaze trails to and hunt in virgin lands via ATV. Must be a real logarithmic scales working.I've also gotten turned around in mountains stalking elk. I figured my way out, but the disorientation lasted an entire day, even to dribe back to Great Falls, Mt on highways. Freaky feeling.Excuse the spelling and grammar.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Lets get serious for a moment. If your really lost you are going to wish you had some things that would have prevented you from being lost. What would they be and no Macho stuff. Show me an expert woodsman that never been lost and I’ll show you someone that has not been out there long enough. It’s not the question of if? It’s a question of when! Good topo maps and the best compass in the best of hands still fall short of the perfect, Were in the hell am I!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

There are those that will look down on another hunters by the way they look, the way they dress, the way they outfit themselves just because they make it more easier on themselves. They are more comfortable in the heat or cold and their means of hunting. To some are considered an edge over others. Whither it’s the use of an ATV, shortening their barrel on a magnum to the use of a GPS. We all have our own flavors and standards. I’ve been in conditions hunting from minus 87 below zero to 124 plus. At sub zero temps, batteries, lighters that use fluids/gas and waterproof matches don’t work, guns and equipment freezes up. Because of the experiences and training that I have, the bottom line is this and I will challenge anyone with respect on this. I’d rather carry a GPS to be safe, period! Those Mountaineers on Mount Hood by law must carry EPRB’s. Emergency Positioning Radio Beacons. Activate the EPRB anyplace in the world, everyone and God knows your in trouble and help is on its way. I hunt alone in unfamiliar and some of the harshest environments. When you’re at the table of cards and your life is on the line. I bet you will like to have that 5th Ace up your sleeve!

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from Mark-1 wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

So there's another "mark" lurking on this blog going by the handle of "mark [a]".I'll be that other guy "Mark-1" from now on. :-)

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

3 mile backup on the highway and running late. My Lowrance iFinder® Hunt C GPS Unit got me there on time. Back roads? no problem!OK I'm spoiled!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Rocky Mtn HunterThe Rocky Mountains?GODS COUNTRY!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Cracks me up when a hunter has to use trail tape. Hey everybody this is my hunting spot!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OGut it there Tony you don't need that extra weight to be pulling

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from mark (A) wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To Silver Arrow:Thanks for pointing that out. I am not at all familiar with spending time in the woods in or near densely populated areas i.e. "547" people onto my trail. So it never occurred to me. I don't know if most people would even recognize one of my trails. Flags don't have to be bright orange. Blazes weather.I agree that there is more to finding your way around, or out of, the "bush" than maps,gps's, compasses and the like. Knowledge of nature is a big part of it. The little bit that I know is from what has been passed on to me, and from my own experiences. I'm not sure some things can be taught...but I better stop there.Best of luck to you.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Agree with Dave and Wayne: I got enough stuff to carry around, don;t need a new toy. I do carry a roll of orange marking tap, and if hunting new woods I mark my trail every so often. Do carry a compass.I am 72, so most times i;m buddy hunting. If became lost, I'd say put, build a fire and make a bed/shelter. Say put and you will be found within 48 hrs. As for firearms. I've used a 06 for 50 yrs. I now use the new Sciricco l80 gr bonded out west where shots exceed 200 yds. Here at home where short shots, I either use my 25-06 or my 30-30. And, the 25-06 a great out west gun for Lopes and long distance w-tail deer. But in the thick woods here in the south,with small fields around, the 30-30 with open sights is all you need. Trust Wayne, he knows what he's talking about and has hunted more than most of us dream of. Before i buy a new fiearm or a question on Ammo I contact him for his opinion, so far he's been 100% correct.I go hunting for the enjoyment of being in the woods, not playing with toys. If a nice shootable animal comes by, thats a bonus. In you day pack, pack a 6 x8ft piece of clear plastic, dry matches, and a tad of Jerkey and few spoonfuls of coffee packed in your metal coffee cup. Build that small warm fire and enjoy the beautiful sky at night, and keep your firearm dry and handy. Just don;t get all-bent-out-of -shape and you will be just fine.O, don;t forget you knife and a few extra rounds of ammo. The Rocky Mountains have so much scenery to see, so just enjoy them and think positive. Before you go, pratice a lot, and then pratice again. Good-luck ;ye old Gunslinger down south

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

i believe you have convinced me on the 06 but i have another question, i have studied hunting as much as i can, but im still confused do i gut my deer right there or do i drag it out first?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I disagree. I learned land navagation and map reading in the US Army and can was very good at navigating by azimuth very accurately. I've had a GPS for about 3-4 years and they are excellent tools for marking anything from trails to hunting areas. I've never had problems with reception even in thick cedar swamps. I've learned a lot of tips and always carry a trusty compass as back up but have yet to rely on it due to my GPS not working. Anyone who is against them due to technology I only ask, do you also refuse to wear modern clothing to keep warm such as polypropelene, goretex, or thinsulate? Do you refuse to use items to help conceal or cover your scent? Or modern archery equipment with composite arrows, 300 fps speeds, etc. Or finally modern bullets with modern powders in firearms? This is no different.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OTake form someone that has the experience in knowledge and experience. Some day you might get a chance to go Elk or Moose hunting. That 30-06 will in fact do anything you want from busting critters to Moose, Period. I’ve seen hunters both in Alaska and in the lower 48 have more successful shots with the 30-06 than any cartridge. Magnums are great if your shooting past 175 yards and handle the excessive recoil. Never before have I seen one of the biggest Bull Moose literally blown off its feet at 75 yards as a young teenager shooting a 30-06 with off the shelf Remington core lock 180 grain bullets. My 338 Win Mag or any other Magnum could not have done a better job.Remember Sir; it’s all about bullet placement!And far as GPS are concern, if you don’t like one, then don’t carry one!To each there own I say!Hey, did anyone see Uncle Ted on the O’Reilly Factor last night?WOW!

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from JA Demko wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I'm willing to bet that when compasses were first invented there were old bastards complaining about them kids and their newfangled northpointers. "A REAL outdoorsman wouldn't depend on one them needle thingies. Ya never know when it might decide to point somewheres else. In my day we navigated by the stars and we were glad to do it!"

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OIn my experience, the 7mm Rem Mag with 150 or 160 gr bullets has a little more recoil than a .30-06 with 180 gr bullets, but not much. Neither are much fun for extended practice sessions, which a new rifle shooter needs.I would predict that the 175 gr. 7mm Rem has substantially more felt recoil than the .30-06. I have had folks who shot my .35 Whelen w/225 gr bullets complain of the recoil, which to me is about same felt recoil of a 7mm Rem Mag.A .308 Win with lighter bullets will kill any whitetail on the planet. The .308 and .257 Roberts are much more pleasant to shoot than the 7mm Rem or .30-06. Any of the options you name or have been suggested (except Clay's M-72 LAW) are quite adequate for the purpose stated.Hell, get 2 or 3 rifles. More is better, anyway. I am trying to decide which rifles (I already own) to hunt with this fall , too!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OForgot the 270 also a very good round.pretty much a .277 diamieter bullet ona 30-06 case.The late Jack O'conor thought it was magic,.. others of ciourse are 25:06 & 257 Roberts,, ,.. But 270 best bullet generally speaking is 130 grain. The 06 has a plethora of bullet weights not inclusing the accel;erators from 110 grain to 220 grain.The difference between 7mm and 270 is only about 5 thousanths of an inch ,. which in practicale terms is not worth mentioning.By the by ,.gotta be a littel careful here but,.. in my humble opinion,. ballistically for the 06 best bullet is 165 gr boat tail.Soft point sptzer.With that you can take anything from grond hogs to elk / moose,..And an old gunsmith I usd to know,.. who hand loaded 200 grian spitzers in his 06 wowed the Guide buy dropping a couple moose and big black bear like they were rabbits . Tis woud of course lead us to futher discussion of balistic coeffiiant and sectional density,.. but for now if you can get your arms around it ,. if your going to have one gun in the Us the 06 is a pretty fool proof choice.165 grain "bucks" a little more than 150 grain but down range retained velocity visa-v energy is superior in 165 ,However .either one for Missouri deer in the brush..The standard upper midwest "go to round" for the last,.. God knows how long ,.. is 30-06 180gr soft point,. and the boys up north know what works for what they do.But truthfully any of the three provided your gun shoots where you point it, will not let you down.Ther are better and worse calibers for specific applications ,..But if your gonna have one gun to hunt the stuff bigger than rabbits ad msaller the grizz or browns.A 30;06 is what I would tell my son to get.Versitaile practical and you don't need to take out a second mortgae on your house to by ammuinition.

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

my wife could get lost in our own house, so i think that gps might help, but i believe that its mostly if you wanna use or lose it its all up to you. the native americans didn't even need a compass so i guess its just up to you.

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from Paul L wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

OK, here's my $.02.I carry both a compass/map and a GPS. I have been lost in the winter woods in a snowstorm before on XC skis and I can tell you that that is not a comfortable feeling.The problem with a compass/map is that it is dependent on light to read it by. And try reading a map out in the woods during a southern downpour.The problem with GPS, other than the obvious reception and battery problem, is that it can turn you around if you are not moving. If you stop to read the compass, it can swing around to a random reading. This cost me a few hours travel before I figured that out.However, I have to say that the GPS has saved me countless miles, wandering back to camp, on the shortest route in deteriorating weather. And it does it so quickly.The BEST thing about GPS is marking landmarks like turkey and deer sign, and to retracing a trip onto a topo map. I have a nice database of where I have spotted bears, turkey, deer, grouse, as well as water sources and fishing spots.I'll continue to carry both compass/map and GPS and leave you with this warning: If you do not know how to read a map and compass, and rely solely on your GPS, you are probably going to spend a night out in the woods at some point. Good luck to you.

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

i have heard that a 270 will do the job well too. but maybe your right and i just need to concede to a 30.06 and be happy with myself for the deer and not the rifle.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Shootem like Cape Buffalo!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OYohan has a good point. If you want to really be different, get you a Laws Rocket. Gunny would be proud of you!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

And by the way, a 25-06 is perfect for any deer

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OA little factoid from Alaska.Any respectable hunting guide will tell you to leave your 7mm Rem Mag at home. You must have a 30-06 or larger.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OHave looked at your comments ,..Never hunted in Missouri Being completly honest and with no attempt to guild the lily I have taken well over 100 whitetails,..hopefully this will make me beleivableJust lukey enough to be able to hunt where poulations were good in multiple places,. multiple times.I can say for deer a 30-30 is plenty of gun out to 150 yds ,..and with the new hornady loads ,.. further,i shot a number of deer with a 30;30 but recall specifically a medium sized deer at 175 +/- yds once ,.. hit it amidships just behind the shoulder ,.. it walked a few steps and tipped over,.A7MM mag deopending on bullet weight can kick the snott out you .Heavier bullet heavier recoil.Not like 375 but not far behind 338,.. with 175 gr bulletCurious ,..Why not an O6?Its reasonable cost wise to shoot it will kill literaly anything and you can get anmmo anywhere,..7x57 is a great round but ammo more expensive and not availabe like -06,.. 280 Rem another good choice ( its a 7mm bullet sitting on 30-06 case) for all practical epurposes.and its Jim Carmichaes pet caliber .7mm-08 another excelent round.(7mm bullet on a 308 case.What ever you do get something that will not bestow upon you the gift ( curse) of the flinch,.. Flinching makes you missand if you miss you can shoot at a deer with a 458 mag (elephant gun ) all day with no effectIf the recoil and blast makes you scrunch up and jerk the trigger its no good ,..If your recoil sensitiveHave seen 243 take plenty of deer ,.. low recoil light bullet plenty for deer,.. but if you( for now)are dealing with one gun.Get something that you can afford to shoot cause practice is the key ,.. minimum 100 round per yesr to reasonabnly expect clean deadly hits.Vey likley a .308 winchester would serve you well ,.Ammo readily availabe ,.cost reasonable ,.. recoil reasonable and a lot of smack for the amount of powder burnedHope that helps,..

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from mudman wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I dont see how anyone can say that a gps is not a valuble tool. Dont tell me that if I mark a waypoint with my gps that you could get there quicker with a compass. I'm not saying dont take a compass with you but I would take the gps anyday!

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

how is the recoil on a 7 mm mag anyway?

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from Steven Dale wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

A couple of years ago killed a nice Bull Elk. The Packhorses I needed were at our spike camp (which I had marked on my GPS). After the kill I marked the downed animal on my GPS. With the GPS I could walk a straighter and quicker path to the camp and then back to the animal. Quicker and easier!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Just happned to look before calling it a day.To the guy with no name 08-29-2007 07'10PMI should by a compas that dosent come with the fruit loops.My responce is another genius exposed ,..So MR. no nmae if I could afford multiple extended hunting trips in my 20's ,.. likely I can afford a good compass.Probbaly one that cost as much as your wifes wedding ring.But that dosent stop magnetic fields from affecting its polarizationOnce again more deductive geniusYUK YUK Have a great evening.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Hey Yohan, perhaps you need to get a quality compass and please, don't use the one that comes from a box like Fruit Loops! Perhaps one that cost more than a dollar. YUK! YUK!

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from Barney Rouse wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Learned to use a map and compass from my Granddad and my Dad. Learned additional compass/map skills in the Army while in RVN. I currently have one of the popular name brand GPS systems, but always carry a map and compass as a backup. The GPS has difficulty locating satellites in some mountainous areas, particurlarly in deep canyons. I won't bother to mention the additional weight of the extra batteries required to operate the beast. I am not convinced that GPS is in any way superior to a map and compass when well used. It is helpful, also, to plan your trip while studying maps of the intended hunting area. Looking for terrain features, geological breaks, water, etc. In some ways, a map supercedes the GPS. Happy hunting.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

All know is that my fanny pack weights too much.At the end of the day my back is sore.Too may extra batteries for the lazer range finder, 2 flashlights, headlamp,8 mi radio,GPS,cell phone.My father and grandfather didn't carry all this stuff with them and they survived the woods.Oh! I called Garmin up the other day with a question about my GPS and they had to get back to me because it was considered old technology (6 yrs old).I ask you who is the fool?

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony O.30-30 will do a fine job on your short range Missouri whitetail shots. Light to carry, easy on the shoulder, easy on the wallet.Other good choices for you include the .257 Roberts as mentioned, 7mm-30 Waters, .44Mag rifle.SA

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from Eli Griggs wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I carry a compass, one of the big Brunton's with mirror, transparent base plate and plastic 'how-to' pages in the bottom of the protective rubber base. I love that thing. It tells me anything I want to know, from how tall that old oak is, to the angle of that hill I have to climb. It is a marvel of compass-kind and I carry it everywhere, 'cause it will also tell me where the sun will rise or set for photographs I take at the beginning and end of the day, when the light is just right. My compass gets used in the city (mostly for practice) as well as the woods and it is my first line tool for navigation.I also have a couple of GPS units and use them as well. Here in the East, I hunt public lands, which are rife with camping sites, private parcels, no gun zones, etc. I use a GPS mostly to make notes where I find good game sign, etc, and to tell me when I'm too close to a camping site; to avoid firing in that direction and as a reminder that within x number of yards of a designated camping area, you are not allowed to shoot. I might not go into an area for several years, but my GPS remembers for me and that's a real convenice. That's something no compass can not do for me, especially after a dark foggy morning, slipping in and out of tree covered ravines and traversing steep hills without a clear line of sight to a landmark. Sometimes I lose a signal, but it is much easer to find a sweet spot to grab onto a couple of satellites than to climb most of the way up a small wooded mountain for a clear view to local landmarks.I don't consider GPS to be better or worst than a good compass, simply a tool that augments my ability to get from here to there and back again.A side note; I once fell ill while hunting on family lands, something I had been doing for ten years or so, and was without a compass, in the pre-GPS days. I became so disoriented with fever that, with the temperature dropping and light failing, the only way I could find my way out was an eight mile hike along transformer lines and a long nightmarish walk alone a dark country road back to my car. That was the last time I went without a coat and compass into ANY woods, a hard and embarrassing lesson no one should have to experience in this day of inexpensive quality compasses and GPS.

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from Wayne McClellan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Try navigating with a compass and terrain features at night and you will realize the value of a GPS. I am a coon hunter that spends 4 or 5 nights a week in the woods--often strange woods. Going from point A to point B and returning with a compass is no problem. However, once you get to point A and the dogs have moved to point C and some to point D, you will get turned around and spending a lot of unessary time finding your way back. Most anti GPS hunters simply do not understand or want to learn how to navigate with a GPS. Once thing for sure, you have to keep the GPS exposed to the sky. If you put it in your pocket, you are lost. Above all, you must have your compass as well because when you are stading still, the GPS compass will not work. Some of the electronic versions do. I always carry both. I love my Garmin etrex and Garmin Rhino 120. These systems, coupled with Map Tech topo map systems, are the greatest asset any hunter can have.

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from Brian wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

GPS has a club-brain in steep-sided mountain valleys. Batteries don't work well in X-cold. Yup, superseded by new models, can't be fixed. However, when thrown up in the air, my GPS could still point "down."I have had to use a compass twice and those were twice too often but without my old, bubble-filled Prospector, I'd still be walking! F&S claimed that the Brunton Eclipse 1066 was the Best-of- the-Best. Right on.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Sounds like you want to be different rather than utilitarian. I can appreciate that!There is a reason the .30-06 is overused......Find a .257 Roberts. Ruger still chambers for it. Used ones around also. Federal makes a dandy 120 grain Nosler Partition for it.Great hunting!

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from Tony O wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

The .06 is too overused and everybody and their cousin uses it. im looking for something that will do the job of killing deer in missouri. in the woods in southwest missouri your shots are almost never going to be over 150 yards.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Is the .30-06 a little too manly for you? The 7mm Rem Mag has more recoil and blast. The .270 more blast with a little less recoil, depending on bullet weight.If the recoil bothers you, get a .257 Roberts. A deer killer extraordinaire.

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from Tony O. wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

i will be hunting whitetail in the missouri brush. as for the '06 i was just never quite comfortable with it. i've been thinking of the 7mm or the .270 but im not settled yet

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Walt,..My fathr was still alive then ,.70"sYour take is pretty much what he thought,. probabaly ore deposit,..some more magnetic than others which would account for reversed poles.That compass from then on was always reversed.Also according to him apparently some of the 32ond Keystone Divsion (his outfit) under Patton had similar experioances outside Germany , Couldnt prove it by me but my Dad was no B.S.'er.Cooper you give me hope, that some day the world will identify those pontificating posturing individules.Who boldly state the obvious,.. attemtoing to mezmerize the rest of the population into attemting to ptove the negative into a catagory or maybe even ubspiecies.Your ,cooper-isms just clasicLets think of two hundred other ways to say always exception to the rule by starting with coopers law,.. Like gag me with a spoon... someon aleady said it coop you dont need to.No coop ,. no UFO ,..just an exoeriance aparently shared by others that is quite simply outside your life experiance.Thusly to follow all your previous deductive paths to you,. simply impossible.Jeeze ,.. never heard a guy like to hear himlsef talk so much and still maintain his inaliable right to be correct about everything. YUK YUKThing is your probbaly OK,.. for Hanger Jocky trying to prove he's AJ exoert on everthing.So,.. what the Hell,.. you have a nice Holiday too Coop.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OYou don't say what you will be hunting or where. Nor do we know why the '06 doesn't suit you. With those questions answered we can give you reasoned advice on what you could look at.Mark and YohanI too know that feeling of the hair standing up on the back of your neck and all the other biological warning signs when you ARE being watched/perhaps hunted/ Was in New Jersey's Ramapo Mountains armed with only my cameras and a .38 Sp. Never saw a blasted thing but man did I feel IT. I related the story to a couple of older friends who knew that area well and they told me just how lucky I was to have come out. Over the years several people have gone missing there and a Ranger of a local Boy Scout camp was killed in the mid 1960s. Supposedly there are still descendants of a mixed race colony from the time of the American Revolution living in the woods. Sounds bizarre to be sure, two hours drive from New York City an area dense and feral enough to hide in like that but to be On Topic your trusty old compass will not work well there either (due to lots of iron ore).

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!David, was that your stomach?OOPS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Walt SmithYou watch those diehards. One day soon they will be carrying one. Yep’ I can see good Ol’David peeking into his backpack to take a sneak peek at his hidden GPS. Just a matter of time!You know I got to harass David once in awhile or He thinks I’m mad or ignoring him!What’s that in you ear David? Thought it was a hearing aid? Thought I herd a woman’s voice, “TURN LEFT!”?

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from Walt Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Yohan-- I also know the feeling of discovering that your compass completly flip-floped 180 degrees and you just walked a couple miles in the wrong direction and low and behold the sun is setting and you didn't bring a flashlight!! Bad Bad feeling Huh? Happened to me in the western U.P. only thing I could figure out was I was standing right on top of a Iron deposit, I've carried a GPS ever since. And to BLUE OX-- your right, there in the big woods of Wis. and Mi. are large ones that like to watch,and follow us.I used to laugh and doubt until a five minute event one Nov.evening.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Remember Murphy’s Law? Over a 1000+ things that can go wrong.I go by SSgt. Coopers Law and it has only one law and one law only.SSgt. Coopers Law is,Murphy was an optimist!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Poles reversed? Sounds like, Yohan had a UFO encounter!The main problem here is, there are those that rely totally on electronics rather than century old ways of navigation. So many times while out in the country someone is broke down and tried to call out on a cell phone or just make a call. Those cell phones do not have the punch to get out, blocked by mountains and tropospheric ducting plays hell with the cell phones. (http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ducting.html) I would allow them to use My VHF HAM radio with 50 watts that has 167 times more punch to call out for help or just to contact someone. However I still don’t rely totally on any electronic wizardry! Yes I carry a cell phone, got my ham radio and my GPS. I know better to put any faith in any of them.Do you know how to turn a watch with hands into a compass?

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from Mark wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Yohan,Had a moment like yours hunting Hound Creek area in Montana. There was one break going up into the rocks that putting one foot forward gave me the willies. Couldn't see anything, carrying a 7mm Mag, but there that "survival" feeling that told me don't go up that creek for love or money....And Yes. You know you're being watched and somthing's plotting.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony what is it about the 06 you don't like?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony OGo caveman!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Tony O.30-30

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To Gary ,.. Thanks for the heads up ,.. but respectfully I know /knew better than to take one look. First thing I was taught ,.. make sure no metal ( weapons, equipment or say a K-Bar kind of fighting knife) can affecr it. I still carry one of those,.. know there is beter but just used to it.I went as far as to scrape away snow set the compass on the ground that moring and step away ,.Rifle was against a tree 10 feet distant with knife snd pack ,.the compass pole waa reversed. That simple.It was at that point I considered myself lost .As one other guy said I have also been somewhat conmfused ,and walked out late or even vary late ,.. but this time I was lost.Point beingYou betcha a good compass will get you out if somehow it dosent get itself turned inside outIf you know how to use it.Which I do.But that experiance made it clear once and for allThere is always an exception to any rule .Had the sun not been visable that next morning.With my training(BELIEVE YOUR COMPASS) I would have been MORE THAN 20 miles in the wrong direction by days end.And that country is plenty big enough to do that and still lacking a zip code.This assuming no panic and rough terriane travel at aprox,.3 mph plus distance I had already traveled in the wrong direction.Still you would think a sensible person walking for say two to three hours would say Hmmm,. didnt take me this long to get in yesterday ,.. so where in the Hell am I and why,.. am I not at a road.As I say if not for the sun that morning ,. do believe I would have been in there another day,.. maybe more.If some of these "hunters"wanna play Danile Boone fine by meJust saying ,. compass is the standby ,.. but if it fits in the budget,.. it makes sene to have more than one means of determining position.Being honest 3 is better than one and 4 if you count the sun.Would bet a Kansas city steak dinner the wives and girlfriends may well agree.Also I do stand corrected ,. in remote areas ( salelite phone far better,..).To the Blue Ox ,..It was blowing like hell that night so when I went to look for tracks in the morning,..cuae i was sure something out there couldn't find anythingI can tell ya the hair on my arms is standing up just thinking about it and I don't scare easy.I didnt do any sleeping that night either ,.. Mostly becuase about evrty 25-30 minutes ,. the hair on the back of my neck got pretty stiff.and I could fell goose bupos the size of chick peas on my skin.If your "in country" in combat situation your sences will elevate ,. miltary knows this ,.. Have seen guys actually smell the enimy. Not smoke either ,.. smell there body odor from quite a distance . Whcih saved a buddys behind one day in 1969.It was a little like that,.. that night ,.. couldnt see or smell anyhing except once just a faint rank odor ,..but that could have ben my own sweat ,..However the other (sixth) sence that sometimes saves our bacon ,.. had me down right alert.Rifle moving back and forth on the dark fringe past fire light,,..The feeling or sence mitigated about an hour before light,..Yes sir Mr. Blue Ox,.. pretty damn strainge,.is all I can say.When I got back,..had two bowls of soup and slept for 14 hrs.Have not been back to that spot ,.. and i think safe to say ,.. no plans either.One other thing Blue ox,.. what I did see the next mornig were marks faded from blowing snow that looked like wing marks ,..no turkys back then that I knew of . and by dark they roost anywayYes sir ,. pretty damn strange.Have a good holiday weekend.

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from Tony O. wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

this is actually off subject, but i need advice about hunting rifles. im not new to the rifle, but i am to hunting. a lot of people recommend the 30.06 but i don't think im a real big fan of it. are there any other rifles that i can get without spending a lot of time and money trying to get too it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

CITY FOLKS!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Get lost they are both packed for the trip alone with the cell phone?I’m going to be nice nice this time!LOL!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterThose Air Force guys usualy didn't need a compass or GPSThats a good one!

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Yohan,I grew up in the big woods of northern Wisconsin, and know all about getting lost in there. People i've known for years have gone in and never come out. And I myself have seen things back there that I can't explain, much less try to understand. But I can tell you that the local indians aren't bullshitting.You WERE being watched.

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from Dumba** wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

OK, all you GPS techno-geeks, if one of us technically challenged can't-turn-on-his-computer-without-help guys WERE to consider a GPS, what SIMPLE, reasonably priced units would you recommend? Most of us just want to get from point A to point B and back again. I don't need to know how to land my 747. I have pilots to do that for me.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I can barely use my computer, I sure don't need a GPS! Got lost after it snowed on me one time down here in Tennessee. Man everything looks a whole lot different after the ground is covered in white... got a Silva. Problem solved.

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from David wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Anytime I go to a new area or an area that I have a possibilty to get lost they are both packed for the trip alone with the cell phone.I also take a GPS when hunting familiar areas to mark points of interest.

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

MarkBlazing or flagging a trail on public lands is not the best idea. You'll get to your 'perfect' stand at zero dark thirty only to find 547 other hunters squabbling over whose stand it is.If you do find yourself 'misplaced' in the woods then flagging is a way to help the rescue party find you as you get deeper into the forest. Seriously; if you are lost and DO have to move then flag your back trail (best bet in most cases is to stay put and build a signal fire).OrwellYes; my cell phone is GPS enabled but battery life on it is abysmal. I want to preserve every minute for calling out if needs be.Orienteering, as it used to be called, truly involves more than just map and compass. Nature gives pretty good directions if you know what you are looking at. There are times and places where compasses are not 100% reliable so knowing how to find and follow small watercourses among other techniques can still save your bacon.SA

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from Lloyd W wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

The GPS is one piece of technology I've made peace with. In combination with a compass and the general awareness of my surroundings, the GPS can save time and energy, not to mention being able to walk right back to the spot where I cached part of my elk.I've never been lost, but have been a mite bewildered for a day or so. With a GPS, you just save enough pain and anguish to make it worthwhile.

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from mark wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

No one has mentioned blazing the trail. Flagging the trail. If you're in doubt.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago
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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Amen, Dave!I'm trying to get rid of some of my piano before elk season. Colorado this year.I hunted the Crazies in 2003 and really would like to go back before I can't!

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To WA MtnHunter: Ah, but it was not always so. There was a time when I was young, and could run up a Crazy drainage with a piano on my back.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Gary SmithThose Air Force guys usualy didn't need a compass or GPS to find the NCO club or the golf course.....

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Come now, DaveWe all know that you are too old and slow to navigate the Crazy Mountains in Montana! Except maybe on horseback. That is some ball-bustin terrain and GPS is not effective in many of the ravines and valleys shielded by the steep elevations.GPS is great for saving some time and shoe leather when hunting a circuitous route back to camp or truck or returning to downed game with help.However, there is no better tool than a good compass, a map, and the knowledge to use them. I learned how to effectively use map and compass in Ranger school many moons ago. I still have my non-Army issue Silva orienteering compass from 1969. Never needs batteries. It goes around my neck every time I get out of sight of my truck.As a sidebar, I watched a friend of mine let two cow elk slip right past him in broken timber while he was head down playing around with his new GPS for about 5 minutes. He had a cow tag for the hunt! I was about 800 yards away and watched it play out through my binoculars! When I asked him about the two coes, his reply was, "What elk?". He thought I was kidding until we walked down about 150 yards and found the fresh tracks. right where I said they were. His batteries were also about gone from fat finger functioning the unit. They all use a lot of battery power every key stroke.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Gary SmithDo you know what a half-minute of angle will do to a hunter traveling 1 mile?

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WOHAN, you may have been trying to read your compass with your rifle and other metal gear on, DON"T do it. get rid of your gear and walk away from your camp a few yards befor trying to read your compass. This happens a lot, even to the military. I'm sure Clay and some of you other guys have seen this. It does not take but just a few degree swing on the compass an d you are LOST.

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Clay, sound like you know your business when it comes to your compass. That's one good thing you learn in the military. Any one not sure of them self with the compass or GPS, I'm sure you know some one who was in the military that would be glad to help you. Don't be afraid to seek help. I know i have loaned my map books out lots of times.

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Don't over look the fact that a GPS MUST obtain at least three satalites which may not always be possible in the mountains. When GPS's first became popular a lot of people were getting lost in the mountains because of this. Always carry a good compass and orient your self to your map BEFORE leaving camp. this is very important.

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from Gary Smith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

All you guys that have been in the Army latly need to brush up on using your compass, if you have not been in, there is a good book out (USING A MAP AND COMPASS) by Don Geary, (STACKPOLE BOOKS) This will help you understand the use of the compass, then get a good GPS. If you have trouble with it, fall back on the compass. I personally like my GPS, not a fancy one, but good, . I still kept my mape reading books from the Army and brush up sometimes. My advice to anyone is that a compass can be just as difficuly to use as a GPS if not trained to do so. when I was in the Air Force we didn,t do a lot of map courses, but in the Army as a combat engineer (C) (M) (Heavy), map, compass and GPS were a daily practice. Again as I've said, use your GPS and Compas until you feel confident. You don't have to use all the functions of the GPS but why not...

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Phillip, you need to check your pockets, you had a magnet some where.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Hunters and trail hikers that used a compass that got lost didn’t know how to use it in referencing it to a map such as, Magnetic north vs. true north and this my friends can put you in really deep trouble!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

WOW, everyone wants to go on a guided hunt in Canada, Africa, and New Zealand or someplace like Colorado. There is no ranting against these hunters. So what’s the big deal against guided hunts? All I see on MOR and the Out Door channel is mainly guided hunts and allot are canned. So what’s the big deal about using a GPS, Guided Personal System? Ok, so I twisted it a little. I did it to prove a point. 99% of all my hunts are by myself and totally without the aid of others. My Father gave the GPS so I can show him the areas I’ll be in and I find it really useful in going to new and unknown areas. It shows boundaries for US Forests, hunting units, Wildlife Management Units and a lot more. It doesn’t show jeep trails. I can get right up close to closed to hunting areas without trespassing into them, if I choose to do so.Besides, I just might be in a location were someone needs emergency help. For me, it has happened several times. One hunter jumped down into a embankment the stock of his rifle hit the hammer of his 22 Mag revolver and drilled the center of his foot. Shattering it all the tiny bones. A rattlesnake bit another hunter; one broke his leg, a couple twisted ankles and the ones that got lost. The list goes on and on!My next rescue?It just might be you!

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from Bill Wiley wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I don't need a GPS to tell me I am lost. But I do know a $4.00 compass will get you out.

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from Todd wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I do use a GPS.. I prefer the Garmin Rino because of the convenience is has.. It has a two way radio so I can keep in touch with my hunting party (some of the old guys need help getting there deer out of the woods sometimes), it has a built in compass, built in maps, and when I see a scrap or some sort of markings I can set a way-point into it so I can take it back, load it into my computer at home and maybe even figure out where the deer are moving.. I tend to hunt in real thick, dense woods, and I know from experience that those same woods can look completely different after the sun goes down and well a GPS just doesn’t seem to notice the change in light. It always knows where I parked the ATV (as long as I remembered to enter it in)… No it’s not something I need to have, I could navigate the woods with out it, but it is nice to have around to make things easier..

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from Galen Burgett wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

This is one exception in the "shed the technology" part of hunting that I personally allow me to have. I disagree with you Mr. Petzal. GPS is a very useful tool. That said, anyone who ventures into the wild or semi-wild without knowing how to use a compass and a topographic map is a fool. I teach the kids how to navigate with a compass starting when they are 6-7 years old. They absorb GPS on their own as 21st Century kids seem to do with the latest computer chip technology. If one is going to bring on a "savage and unwarranted attack on technology", by all means sound the charge!! I would love to savage and disparage in-line muzzleloaders, compound bows, infrared/heat sensing devices of any type, game cameras, quality game management (i.e., baiting), ATVs, telescopic sights, computer aided hunting, and another couple dozen techno-nonsense things modern hunters seem to think they have to have. But, GPS is useful and after learning to use a compass, use of a GPS unit should be encouraged.

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from wolf wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

cell phone ha ha where do you hunt new york city? i guide bear hunters and lake trout fisherman in lake superior area cell phones 30-40 percent service at base,out in the sticks zero,satelite phones are better ,but ify too,God old compass almost always 90 percent magnetic deposits of iron ore tend to mess them up sometimes ,gps works on the water but dense woods and ravines give them the slushes alaska after anchorage cell phones are dead weight too..

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from Orwell wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

SilverArrow your cell IS a GPS

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I got lost in Vermont too.It was after leaving a bar in Burlington, years later I'm still not sure about getting back to my girl's place at UVM. Boilermakers ugg!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Spent a night in the deer woods once ,.. becuse (some how) compass had poles reversed.,Yup you read right,.. poles eversed ..between the time I left camp in th emorning and about 2 that afternoon..am certain of this becuase I took a reading before I went in,.the sun was visable and in th east.I also had topo maps from US Geological survey which were usless due to nearly zero visiability later in the day.This occured on one of a number of Wisconsin hunts in back in the 70's.Who ever said"Northern Wisconsin is big woods is correctIf you get to know a couple of the older local hunters ( tough nut to crack I can say ) they will tell you people over the years, "went in" and just didnt come out.Never heard from again,.. searches found no rifls no clothing ,. nothing ,.. just gone.Espeically in the earlier part of last century. (Years prior to WWII).Local American Indians say, there are things in those woods people arent meant to deal with.I will say, I saw no Sasquatches or spirits that night ,.. but I did have the feeling I was being watched ,.after I decided to get a fire going and wait for morning. Night comes quickly in that kind of weather one minuts its light and the next ,.. it aint.On a grey November day, no sun thick woods,. visiablilty limited by falling snow, no land marks save a tiny fire tower 4-5 miles away that you can't see,.. it remarkably all begins to look the same.You cant back track cuse the snow started not long beofre you decide to camp.Without a compas You cant tell one direction from the other.Its nearly dark and if your thinking straight at all ,. you know your stuck.,.I would advocate taking all the equipment you can afford and reasonnably carry,.Compass off course but gps, cell, maps what ever. Learn to use them all before you go.During the night weather cleared thank God and it got windy & cold.Still, with a fire going a loaded gun and a couple candy bars,.. figured I would walk out,.. .. the next day,... somwhere.However according to my compass the next morning . the sun was coming up in the west.I had been trained by the boys who know( ground recon ) to BELIEVE YOUR COMPASS,.. so one might imaging the mental gyrations which followedBut finally wasn't buying the compass.. GPs and cells not here yet.So decided go by the sun,.. if that changed over night probabaly wouldnt matter anyway.Three hours later I was within about a mile of our camp. Had been going the wrong direction ( headed for cananda) for about 1 1/2 hours before deciding to wait it out.Kept that compass for over 25 years to show people who just could not believe it,..Finally tossed it last year looking back should have held on to it.Just goes to showNever, never,.. and never always but when your hunting in big woods or skydiving ,.. have at least two chutes.

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from John wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I love GPS. Now if they would just add the darn feature where you crank a handle and it charges up an internal backup battery. Why in the world don't ALL emergency equipment devices have a feature like that??

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from buckstopper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Growing in up in SE Arkansas, trying to find your duck hole, in the dark, in flooded timber(Bayou Meto WMA) where everything looks the same, everyone and their cuzin' has a trail marked, it would have been a good thing to have a GPS, could have kept some people from wandering into someone elses honey hole. I'll take technology whenever its affordable and available. Of course, know how to use a compass, look at maps, scout your area, but as they say time is money. I'd rather hunt than be lost. I've been confused at times where I should have been, but always knew where I was at. When I was very young,(7 or 8), my dad would take me squirrel hunting with his favorite dog, Rip, and we would walk several miles (before the days of leased land) through the briars and the creeks treein' squirrels until we got our limit and always we would alway come out of the woods at the pick-up truck where we started. I was always amazed how that happenned. As I got older I discovered his engineers compass in his huntin' coat. Now huntin'in the Alabama woods. I got a GPS a couple of years ago, still have maps and a compass like dad's, but I can go straight to my tree stand in the pitch dark and not shine a light all over creation looking for markers and such, take less time and making less noise. Got time to climb safely and settle down in the climber before the woods come alive in the morning light. I think a few extra AA bat'rys won't weight down my daypack too much.

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from Michael wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I carry a GPS and 2 compasses, maps of the area and keep notes as I travel (distance, time, terrain). I have been on long trips into the wilderness and both are a must have in my book.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

"introduced" sorry

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from youngun wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I just got introducet to hunting so im trying to learn every thing i can.but i have one question,sorry if its dumb but is it the red needle or the the silver needle that points north?

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Same here on every count, Matt, but the cheapo GPS units are tempting me...

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from Matt Mallery wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I guess I'm real old fashioned because I use a compass, don't have a robo duck, don't have an ATV, and don't use trail camares.

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from Thomas Hall wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I succumbed to the gadget mongers mumbo-jumbo last fall and bought a Lowrance i-finder expedition-c.So far the most useful features for me have been getting a set of coordinates that I can transfer to a map, and to keep track of my position when I'm hunting on public lands. (Here in Minnesota land doesn't have to be posted because the no nonsense people of that state feel that if you don't know where you are then you shouldn't be there in the first place.)My biggest disappointment is that the level of detail in what Lowrance call Topo maps falls far short of the USGS Topo maps that some of us are familiar with. For example it doesn't differentiate between field and swamp, and in my area where about half of the land is swamp that's a major shortcoming.And finally, it's a terrible thing for the maps to be propriatary. National Geographic makes really good digital Topo maps but they aren't compatable with my Lowrance GPS. At the very least, for safety's sake, you should be able to plug any map into any GPS unit and get the basic navagation functions.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Ol'Thrasher is a over 10 point buck that destroys trees with his rubs.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

ListonYes I’m old fashion, never before would I use a GPS, I really didn’t care for it. I am finding locations now that have been overlooked by deer hunters for decades. Talk about a couple hot spots for this deer season, WOW! I even found Ol’Tharshers getaway route! A couple weekends I was 4-wheling and my ATV was acting up. I was able to find a trail I never knew it existed to get on a main road. It would have been a lllooooonnnngggg walk out if I didn’t have it and if broke down.

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from liston wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

GPS systems arent just for hunting, they are also great for locating fishing spots on later trips

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Mark, what’s really funny when some clown comes up pretending to be you and says your trespassing!

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from Mark wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

MY first experience with GPS was on a bush plane in Alaska. The Beaver’s instrument panel looked like Swiss cheese except for very basic gauges and a GPS. My last experience with GPS was watching a couple of curmudgeons look at the thing, ponder what the GPS was saying, ignored it and proceeded to get lost. I don’t own a GPS. I’m too old fashion with a good compass with a sight line and a topo map.BTY—I found it curious other hunters have been having problems with “Regulators” policing lands often not owned, nor do they seem to have any clear cut idea where property lines are. It’s coming to the point where these modernize “range detectives” have placed posted signs on my land, or attempted to “regulate” me and other hunters off neighbors’ property, or my property, where we hunters have permission to hunt. New York State has very definite laws guarding against this harassment. One, it’s illegal to post land not own. Two, the landowners is the only authorized person to call “trespassing”.All in all, a very odd situation since access really isn’t a hunting issue in this area. E.g. Lots of Mennonite farms. Mennonites don’t post their land. I can see myself calling State LE’s on these “regulators” this coming season.

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from waltsmith wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

The problem most people have with GPS's is they make the biggest mistake first.They buy the most expensive one they can find with the most gadgets you can get on one.Honestly you don"t need all the extra B.S. that comes on them.The one I have is the Magellan Explorist 100. It costs around $90.00 at your local Walmart and it is so simple even an "old fart like Dave" can use it. I still carry a compass for back up but I always carry the gps with me know because its so nice to be able to mark a new hotspot and be able to go right to it in a straight line the next year. Take the money you'll save on the expensive units and buy more ammo.

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from Eric wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

"Every year I would stumble across an individual saying I’m on private land, when in fact it’s National Forest. It’s great to whoop out my Lowrance iFinder® Hunt C GPS Unit and prove to them that there lying.Before I got my gps, I would windup on the backside of some hotheaded landowner threatening to shoot me, take away my gun and call the Game Warden."I also hunt an area that is part county, state, and federal land, with private land inter-mixed. I running across more and more land owners trying to claim public land as their own and even posting it.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

EricBe careful of buying a gps online. I was at the Bass Pro in Springfield Mo and it was $47 cheaper and it had the latest software to go with it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

David, what did you do/hunt in Costa Rican rainforest?

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

It’s funny to watch a hunter with a compass holding it next his gun barrel or down at his belt buckle!Got a thousand monkeys jumping on my key board!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

P.S.It’s funny to watch a hunter with a compass holding it need his gun barrel or down at his belt buckle!

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from Eric wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

While GPS costs to much for me to spend on it for what I need it for, I would love to have one. Mainly for the reason that I now live out of state where I hunt and being a public land hunter, that as been forced out of areas I know like the back of my hand it would be nice. Mostly for knowing exactly where members of my group are and the fact I am unable to go on many scouting trips due to time.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Have you ever wondered how those folks in a swamp or bayou ever get around yet alone in the Amazon jungle?When I was younger, I had the ability to track across unknown country to go to a location without any aid. Kind of like internal navigation. The old saying is true, use it or lose it!

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

In reference to Mike Strehlow's excellent comments above, I have to agree. Kidding aside, and despite the fact I'm often accused of being a Luddite I actually think GPS can be a pretty damn useful tool for hunters even in places where it's almost physically impossible to get lost for any length of time.For example, the public hunting area where I do the majority of my deer hunting is around 15,000 acres of contiguous land, mainly rolling mixed grass sand-sage prairie interspersed by a number of fairly steep draws leading to a riparian corridor along a typical prairie river. It's not flat by any means and parts of it are downright rugged, but the Bob Marshall it's not. Even the most talcum-soft of the hordes of metro-area hunters who converge here every rifle season could, if lost, choose literally any direction, start walking, and within a few hours they may lose their pride but they'd find themselves on a section line road, a lease road or a highway (provided of course they don't step on a rattler first...)No compass or GPS needed.But at 4 a.m. in the morning when you're trying to find that one perfect little spot after a two-mile walk up and down a bunch of tree-choked draws is where I think GPS has the potential to shine.I know my particular WMA very well but I don't know how many times I've gotten a little turned around in the dark and ended up somewhere other than where I wanted to be.As there gets to be more and more pressure and competition on public areas I think little things like GPS will become more and more common.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

You know when you’re in trouble?When a big brown bear is carrying away your backpack and it has all your stuff in it including map and compass. Not to mention that your britches are down around your knees.True story!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Dave PetzalNorthern Quebec?I bet you had a blast!Got a few pic’s of the hunt?At night, did the roof of your tent look like it was on fire?To tell you the truth, I really wouldn’t be using one, but my Father got it for my birthday and insisted that I would use it, so I can show him the locations I will be at. When you hunt by yourself, as you know it’s best to let someone know the area you will be in.Besides, if I didn’t pick on you, you would think I’m mad at you!Equal opportunity harassment! Not to be confused with the Office PC variety.338 RUM? My ears are still ringing! LOL!

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from Dave Petzal wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

To Clay Cooper: No, I was not kidding, I really don't want one.The only place I've found a compass useless is way up in northern Quebec on the Laurentian Shield, where there's so much iron underfoot that your needle just spins in despair. Aside from that, the places where I'd least like to navigate are:1. The eastern end of Anticosti Island.2. The Crazy Peaks in Montana.3. The Costa Rican rainforest.

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from Phillip wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Only got truly lost once... in the Adirondacks of upper New York, the Forever Wild area, if anyone knows of it.Way back in the Hemlock swamps on a dull, rainy, grey day, is a bad place to get turned around. I had topos and a compass, but without any visibility to landmarks it becomes pretty pointless. It becomes even worse when every time I'd turn 90 degrees, the compass needle swung with me. So when south becomes north, then becomes west or east... well, orienteering gets a little tricky. Best I can figure is there were some kind of iron deposits or something and they totally whacked my compass.I finally settled my head and trusted my instincts until I reach a spot that was open enough to mark a high peak and match it to my topo. With that in mind, and a good guess, I was able to recross the only maintained trail in the wilderness and find camp.Point being, even the old-school stuff can fail you. A GPS would probably not have worked well under that canopy of hemlocks either.But I have GPS now, and it can be a pretty handy tool. I'm not real thrilled about ever staking my life on something that uses batteries, but it has its place.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Come-on David, you know you want one. I know you do!I like to take you to a few places I hunted. Your compasses would be absolutely worthless! The only thing that is 100% reliable is a good topo map and know how to read it! A gps works excellent to, provided you have plenty of batteries to feed it and it doesn’t fail!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Ditto's Black Rifle addictWhen it comes to orienteering, I know I can give the best the run for there money. But with less time or no time to prescout an area, it makes it very difficult to hunt in area that’s boarded by National Forest, absolutely no reference points, 50 yard or less visibility and riddled with private land. Every year I would stumble across an individual saying I’m on private land, when in fact it’s National Forest. It’s great to whoop out my Lowrance iFinder® Hunt C GPS Unit and prove to them that there lying.Before I got my gps, I would windup on the backside of some hotheaded landowner threatening to shoot me, take away my gun and call the Game Warden. I would give them my humble apology and say I didn’t know. Then I would tell them, I’ve been Federally incarcerated for 20 years and a lot of things have changed. This scares the hell out of out of them and they instantly back down. After a couple of minutes I would let them know that I was in the Military and not in jail at anytime. What can I say? It works and I’ve been given the permission from a few of them to return to hunt.One more thing, if you’re really good at orienteering, you can dive straight into an area with little or no problem. Besides, in case of an emergency, I can press two buttons on my gps that marks the location as “MAN OVERBOARD” and it will guide me by providing several screens of going back to that location with help.

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from Mike Diehl wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I mostly do not use a GPS. I find it *is* useful for knowing the locations of dirt access roads and turn-offs from dirt access roads when I'm driving in some unfamiliar place.But when I hunt it's quad maps and two compasses. Sort of funny 'cause where I live now the range is so open and the mountain peaks so obvious it feels impossible to get lost. Yet I always have my brunton and my old pocketwatch style brass compass. I'd never be without them.I learned to use a compass the same place Dave did. In the Maine woods.

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from Mike Strehlow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Back when I lived in Wyoming, whenever there was an unexpected snowstorm (which can happen any time of the year), you'd hear of elk hunters lost in the mountains. Wyoming's Bighorn Mountains are a good place for a hunter to carry a GPS device; there aren't a lot of roads, the ground is more than big enough to get lost in, and a compass loses a lot of value if you can't see landmarks due to inclement weather.On one of my last Wisconsin hunting trips, my friend and I drove past a hunter walking on the side of the road, dragging his gun behind him by the barrel. We picked him up and took him back to town (he was still about ten miles out), and he told us that he was a lifelong resident of the county, went into woods like he had a thousand times before (and northern Wisconsin is BIG woods), got turned around, used his compass, and came out, safe, but on the wrong fire road. By the time we found him, he said the water in the ditch was starting to look good to him. His compass got him out, but again, if you are completely surrounded by trees that go on for miles and miles in all directions, there's not much you can orienteer on with it. If you are lost the compass will keep you from walking in circles, but you have to have a good idea of the direction you wish to travel in, and you may come out a ways away from where you went in; this happened to me once, and I know how to use a compass, something not every 'outdoorsman' can honestly say. A GPS device could be a handy thing to have in big woods.That all said, I know of guys who take their GPS units with them when they hunt litle 40 acre stands of woods that are surrounded by farmers' fields. They do this because they think that GPS units are fun to use, and and so they use them whenever they can. The little geek that lives in most of us can relate to this. So long as the earth possesses a magnetic field, a compass is the most reliable thing you can carry, but "fun" defies arguments to the contrary. Carry your GPS and have fun with it; it can save your life, or at least get you back in time for dinner. But keep a compass in your pocket.

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from Matt in MN wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Glad you're posting again Chad. You crack me up!

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from SilverArrow wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Agreed; mostly.1. Map and Compass should be a required part of every hunter safety course.2. Three compasses come out with me every time and yes I do take a bearing once in a while.3. Cell phone isn't going to work everywhere either, especially in rotten weather. Duh.4. Getting lost IS going to happen to most of us if we spend enough time in the woods.5. Getting 'un-lost' is more about state of mind than technological wonders.6. Almost all survival situations are more about presence of mind than a buttpack, backpack or wheelbarrel load of Geek Gadgets.BUTWere I to have a heart attack while hunting or come upon another person having a medical emergency in the woods the cell phone is very comforting to have. It would also be nice to guide rescuers in via GPS coordinates.Just my $.02SA

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from Dennis Crabtrey II wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

GPS is great if you can get in an open area to get reception. You should always plan your routes around good landmarks and learn to use a compass properly. I got lost once flying in Iraq when my GPS on the Aircraft died. All I had for reference was a compass, a big lake and a very rough map of where i was going. Good thing it was dark. We got there on time, but now I fly with a spare Garmin Foretrex 101 (about $100) excellent GPS for the money. Small, light, and runs on AAAs. Always have a backup!!!

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from jstreet wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I don't own a GPS but I do see the value in them. I do carry a cell phone and a compass. Lucky for me I've not been lost (so far), but I try to be prepared just in case.Hell, F&S should do their yearly "Your compass and how the hell to use it" article and the follow that up with "GPS, necessity or high tech hype?".

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from Chad Love wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Silly people...who needs GPS OR the compass when you have a cell phone? Like, duh! Just text some rescue-type person and have them come pick you up! There, problem solved.

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from Blue Ox wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

A good GPS might be a nifty little gadget to have around, once you figure out how it works. But Murphy will always be there to make it crap out on you whenever you need it the most. (you guys know what i'm talking about.) I'll take the compass and mirror, the landmarks, and the stars every time.

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from Greg Morris wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I have to agree with Dave here, mostly. I like my GPS just fine for navigation on the water (and marking great fishing spots) but I've found that they are nothing but extra weight when you are in thick woods or mountainous terrain. I carry a GPS out into the wilderness sometimes, but I won't rely on it. I usually keep a topo of the area and always a good compass with me.I've been lost in the wilderness _with_ my GPS, because it wouldn't sync up with the satellites. But using a compass and a good overall knowledge of the terrain, I got un-lost rather quickly.

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from Dan wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

I agree a compass is the most important thing to have and know how to use. I'm 27, and have never used a GPS but I think they can be a great addition and safety item to have. I also grew up hunting in the thick Maine woods where my father taught me all about bearings and knowing landmarks. Something I've added in recent years are aerial images, topo maps, and a good recent Delhomme atlas...that when taken together shows recent logging activity, new roads, etc. That way, I always know what direction to head in to hit a road, brook, pond, to get myself the hell out!Here in CT on the other hand, if you walk a mile in any direction and you're on a paved highway, so getting lost around here isn't a big deal. However, if I ever get out west, I think I'll invest in a good GPS, but will be sure to bring along a compass or two.Dan

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from Black Rifle addict wrote 6 years 33 weeks ago

Dave-I agree with you that the compass is a very effective tool in the wild, but being old school when it comes to GPS is like you not using a computer.This is not going to happen. Besides, it the case of an emergency, GPS allows for down right pinpoint accuracy needed to guide help to a location.I'm 50-ish, and if I can be taught to use a GPS-ANYONE CAN!ps-it's a great tool to have on the boat, too!

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from PigHunter wrote 3 years 10 weeks ago

This is an old rant of yours but I'll comment anyway because of your obvious lack of reasoning. I don't see an issue with using a GPS as another tool to fix location. Extra batteries, compass, and map should also be carried as a back-up. When it's cloudy, dark, or thick cover that's flat there is nothing of reference in sight to shoot azmuths. If you don't backtrack that compass is no way as accurate in fixing position as a GPS. If you want to get to your treestand from a new direction, in the dark, that compass will cause you much more time and I wager you will still be playing with it as the sun is rising. Finally, if you do need to call in help, a GPS fix will get rescurers to your position a lot quicker. Please think a little more before writing such trash.

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