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March 10, 2008

Where the Metal Meets the Meat

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

Somewhere back in the .338 blogs someone asked about bullets. Here's what I know about bullets. The last bad bullet I saw was in 1988. It was a short-lived version of the Winchester Silvertip (not to be confused with the present Ballistic Silvertip) that blew apart upon encountering dense pockets of air, drifting milkweed, or blown kisses. Winchester got so much heat for this that they came out with one of the best bullets ever, the Fail-Safe, and the whole industry took a lesson and began testing its bullets much more thoroughly and much more realistically.

Since then, everything I've used at any length has been terrific. This includes:
Swift A-Frames, Swift Scirocco IIs, Remington Core-Lokt Ultras, Garrett Cartridges' hard-lead Hammerheads, Hornady Interloks, Hornady solids, Nosler Accubond, Barnes XXX, and Winchester Ballistic Silvertips.

The most impressive have been the Swifts. I have yet to recover a Scirocco; they expand and go through everything deer-sized I've shot with them. The A-Frames are simply unreal. I have shot the following unfortunate creatures with them: Alaska moose, .338, 275 grain; common eland, .375, 300 grain, Cape buffalo, .416, 400-grain, and lesser beasts with smaller bullets. Of the A-Frames I've been able to recover, weight retention has always been over 90 percent, and the mushrooming has always been perfect.

And then there is the Nosler Partition. Any man who would say a hard word against the Partition would spit on the flag.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Bullets are like Auto's to each his own. I use Rem Core-lokts for 45years and no problems. I decided to go to the Rockies in 93 ad started pratcing at 200 yds with a 742 in 30-06. THe Cre-lkts did ok, but did not pattern as I wanted. Then Remington made the l65 gr.Extended range which I bough up a supply and man did they work well. I shot my Elk at l65 yds, and bullet went thru to far side just under the hide. Then Rem stopped making the extended and I switched to the Scirocco'sin l80. Last year I shot a 4 x 4 deer at 345 yds and the bullet went completely thru,took out all his vitals. Athome I shot a 4 x 3 at 270 yds and bullet went completely thru both front legs and vitals. This bullet is by far the better bullet I;ve used. Makes a good long range shot look easy, by being a boattail, it flies flat and long.When hunting the Rockies I use teh l80's as I;m hunting both Mulies and Elk, here at home use the l50 grs.But, I bet more game is killed annually with Core-lokts that all the othe bullets combined,other than the re-loaders.Never shot but one reload, my first and last. I kinda figure if I'm gonna spend the $$$ to go west, I can afford the best Ammo available, or I should stay at home. I will use a cheaper bullet to pratice with as at near 40.00 a box, pratice gets kinda high dollar. Wish they (REM) made the 25-06 in the Scirocco's in a l30 gr bullet. Any you guys bought and shot the new KL7 by Marlin yet? if so what do you think of this new firearm? I;ve never owned a 270, but looking at one of the Marlins for W-tails here at home and Lopes in WY next year. The 25-06 works well on Lopes, just think a l30-l40 gr bullet boattail would be better, as some very long shots out there. The distance will fool you, so by all means get a rangefinder before you go. Hopefully can get a nice Mulie/Elk in MT or C0 this fall. At 73 yrs old and disabled, few long trips left in this worn out body. Since my disabilities in l990-91, had it not been for hunting (hunting from a vehicle or chair)and fooling with guns, I think would have gone more crazy. Good hunting guys,shoot often and straight.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Clay,..wasnt looking for sympathy ,.. but no one turns away from a prayer ,.. thank you.Have come to terms with it by the way so no sympathy required,..Really meant to say,..Its good to hear of a father son relationship that was ,.. well ,... good. many are notIn summer as you say click on a anothet year,..57 nowbut feel good and still in for the fight (not you and me) the one you look for every morning once the cofee kicks in.When I stop looking for that fight ,.. pretty soon will be taking the long nap.From what I can gather your in the west (Arizona maybe ) never hunted threre,. so if you say 125 - 150 yds Im good with that.AS stated earlier have hunted around quite a bit but latley (mostly) in WI.Central Wisconsin is mostly aan ancient lake bedThere are huge ,tammarac filled Bog type marshes,..They can be 3/4 of mile long and half as wide ,an so hellish thick you could walk past 100 deer ina day and not see em. It nearly inpossible to hunt that stuff unless you just find a tree big enough to hold you,.. get in it and stay there.There are clearings and there are fire cuts ,. pine plantations,.. not to mention farm fleldsSo if your looking for the 300 -400 yd shot you most certainly can find it.But there is also a lot of woods from oak savanas in the south to jack pine and scrub oak in the north,..and far north of course the big pine country. Geting toward Yooper counttryNot far from where John D. and Hlelen H Suquatch live YUK YUK.There is a an area in the northern part also known as the Barrens,.. that looks for all the world like tundra or scottish moore.or rough prarie.Door county ( the thumb sticking out into lake Michigan) looks one hell of a lot like Norway. Which is liklley why a lot Norvagans settled there .Not much hnting ther now .,.. mostly a resort area.So terraine is diverseBut to answer your question directly ,..My guess would be (all things considered) the avergae kill shot on a deer is less than 75 yds.I think quite a few get wounded buy guys who think they can shoot and cant ,.. at 75 and out.More get wouded by weekend wariors who shoot a bounding deer and ,the ones who maybe shouldnt shoot at anything uless its tied to a tree,.but that just my opinion.Longest (deer) shot i ever made was close to 300 ,. would not shoot that far now ,..especilly wih open sights ,..which was what it was then. But again te vison.The dam thing walked ten feet out of the woods and stood there ,.. and sood there. and stood there.Finally I thought,.. well pretty sure i got the distace doped ,..so got up against a tree with a branch from different tree as a rest. Held where I thought was rght ,..and let one go from my 8 x 57Thought I heard the bullet thump.but no reaction.Deer looked around ,. turned back toward the woods he came from,.. took a couple steps and folded up.Shot was behind the leg a litte high.150gr Hornady over 50 grains 4064 imr,.. did a nice job.Still had enough juice to mess up te lungs pretty good and it was a through shot.Yooper ,. dont blame you,.. Buddy,. had it done,.. they put a lenz in your eye,.He says it alot better but he still needs reading glasses ,.. I just dont knowI call him ole iron eye now,.. yuk yuk cause if you catch it just right in just the right light the lenz reflects makes him look like his eyeball is steel.,. I am blessed as to vison I know and I dont take it for granted,..Clasic example is when goose hunting ,.. frequently see em coming as much as a minute before other hunters,..I say 5 coming in 1 oclock ,.they don't pick em up before Im reading the mail in their pockets YUK YUK or Ill say 3ird from right has feathers missing on rght wing ,.. they just dont believe me ,.. until there close eough to throw rocks at,..and then when they do see what I see ,.. they just shake thier heads,..Yes am lucky that way,..have a good week guys ,.. im out til next week.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Yohan:Ooh, I'm jealous. Started with glasses in 5th grade. Eyes got worse every exam. 58 years old, bi-focals, buying my first riflescope. I remember hunting, rain coming down, seeing deer, knowing there are horns but I couldn't see. If I hadn't heard acouple of horror stories about the surgery, I'd get that done. Unfortunately, these are the only eyes I've got so I'm reluctant to try it.YooperJackP.S. Are you in WI? What part?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

YohanNow 52 and in May I’ll click another year on, I find now looking back thru my life, there are those that when I pray, I’ll be including those in my prayer both you and your father. Life for each is a finger print, isn’t that right Doc and Mark1 and Yes you to Mr. Petzal! That what makes us Shooting Sportsmen so unique. Go to a ball game and every one sings the same song and rants the same and bore each other in an hour and the fight is on! Yet those like you and I and the rest here can be on an extended hunt someplace together for the first time and act as if we are all old friends, just haven’t met yet and the friendship will be at its best. I remember a previous post of a group of men getting together and neither of them had anything in common and how they enjoyed each other company. O'Brother, I can imagine the stories and jokes these guys would tell!YohanYou and your Father will be in my prayers this Sunday at Church!One more thing , what’s the average maximum shot distance? I would say 125 to 150 myelf!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Rocky Mtn HunterNext time you are in the wilds of Montana and need an ammo fix, try The Fort in Big Timber. Guns, groceries, gas, ammo, deli - you name it. Just off I-90 east side of Big Twig. If they don't have your ammo, you probably don't have a proper rifle!Grand Hotel "downtown" has fine food and cold malt beverages to boot.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

ClayRunning up and down mountains with your father would keep you in shape and I understand Also (dont denie) your physical conditioning from it.Speedy somb1tch was attempt at humorAs your father,..My condolences (truly) lost mine 19995 suddenly.Did not have the relationship with mine that you did.Mine was a heavy handed man ( brilliant and tortured) Im told by some,. but uneduacted( immigrent) with a temper.Hard to say but true,.the man beat me until I got big enough to make him stop.But some how even through that as men,.. we came to an understanding ,.. it was not a closeness like you had with yours but a kind of mutual respect.Probabaly all one could hope for give the situationOnce he realized I could & would beat him senseless if he touiched me or other family memebers again fear had to enetr the picture. which bread anger.He was 6"2' and about 240 when I looked him in the eye and explained I was gonna beat him to within an inch of his life in the next few minuets if he didnt stop the physical abuse to family memebers.Was just shy of 19I knew full well I could do it (was a pretty tough kid) and so did he.Will never forget if I live 500 years ,. could see it in hus eyes,. first it was im gonna kick this kids a$$ I ready ,.. then it was as if alight went out.That made it necessary for him to be another person, and it changed me foreever.A change by the way i sincerly which I did not have to make.As I no longer had a father figure .. but then again as I have turned it over a million timsin my mind since,..I never did to any real exstent.Still once the dust setteled from that,. we did deer hunt together ,. but always with buffering people involved.In his defenceHe was just used up,. one of the lucky contestants that made it thorough,. not only the Battle of Bulge the Hurtgen (sp?) Forest,. the cluster F^^K of a battle of Bastone and other attnding skerbmishes in WW11 .He was also one the first few troops through the gates of Dachow.It is no wonder he was a little f^^ked up.I know all this by the way as muy God Father ( uncle) who retired a Brigadier Gen. tolds me later in the attempt to help with some closure.Took him until I was 30,.years old not to just get Pissed at the soud of a Germannames.But he finally seperated Germans from Nazies ( in his mind) and after that awakening,.. life was easier for him and local citizens of German descent.YUK YUKSuch is the price of freedom.I am then to some extent envious of you and your fathers relationship.I believe you were 165 of pi$$ and other liquids YUK YUK and that teams wanted you.But solder ,. if you picked up 100 do the family a favor and try backing it off a tad.Im sure thy want you around for a while.Not to mention you wanna see and help with as mcuh of thier lives as you can.As to the shootingNot that Im such a great long range shot. I am however a very good (quick) shot at realively close range. (75 ys and under)Its my eyes,.. ( vison)Was tested and confirmed with20-10 vision in my late teens,.. They actually thought it was better but didnt have a test to confirm. Accordingly I was invited to attend sniper school which I declined.Last summer (2007) eyes tested 20-10 at ten feet passed what ever standard eye test distance is.Doc was amazed,..said my eyes better than most pilots half my age that fly heavies and fighters.But need #1 reading glasses ( 1st 25 inches,..Just not as good as it once was)I shoot those groups at the bench or sitting ,.. but if sitting,.. only if Im real comfortable.My bigest conccern is trigger,.. Think most peole would do a LOT better,.. off hand,.. off the bench or where ever,.. if trigger is good for them. I even had triggers on my levers worked on ,.. waaaaay better accuracy.it allows more control.Guy I deal with occcasionally former Arrow Space Engineer,.59 ys old ,.. still has 20-15 vision and DOSENT NEED reading glasses yet.Lastly guns / bullets to me are tools,Used in order to engage in an activity which I callHunting,..Carpenters use toolsI know quite a few carpenters and I dont know one who would use a finish hammer to spike wall sections to a floor.Truth is they all use air nailers but you dont see pin nailers used for frameing.Same with guns / cartridgesAppropriate mass / weight ,..sectional density at speeds sppropriate for bullet conmstruction /weoght creating a minimum of 1000 foot pounds ( for deer sized game) which to me is ususally between 2400fps and 3000fps at muzzle with properly constructed projectiles is a minimum standard.With which to embark on the taking of an anmals life in what I consider ethical and sportsman like nmannor.Which translates to use a bullet heavy enough to kill the dam thing. As to the debate about pass though or not. I want an entry wound and significant would channel and an exit whole twice the size of entry.And then as Raph and other have said ,.. location location location.Have a great day

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Dave,Since you've never given me an answer to anything else I don't really expect one this time but.One of my pet peeves. We see all the TV shows and read all the stories and every time the writer gets a huge buck with whatever he is selling(bow, blind, gun, etc). And with a camera man along no less. It is my strong suspition that most of these deer are raised and hunted in a pasture with a high fence around it. They may even be tame deer. Heck, there's an Amish farmer near La Plata MO with a pen full of huge tame bucks. So tell me how far from the truth is this assertion? Anyone else care to weigh in?

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Chill Clay C.!I understand what composite, hollow point and spire point do to living matter! I killed a deer with a 90 gr HP built by Sierra. No exit wound! Blood shot out the waa-zoo! Swore I'd never do that again. Have been shooting 130 gr Sierra BTSP ever since. I have yet to collect a spent bullet, every shot has been a pass through! Not near the tissue damage of the hollow point with a soft point bullet!I don't believe that a projectile "must" expend "all" it's energy within the target. I agree with KJ, a few footpounds of energy dumped on a backstop is okay!Bubba

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

I'm still on the location, location, location philosophy. Hit them up close in the right spot and a .22 will kill just about anything. Too much speed will cause bullet failure also. My brother in law hand loaded .22-250's for a Ruger No.1 "really really hot" one time and we absolutely could not even hit a 4X8 sheet of plywood at 50 yards... he swears the bullets were disintegrating in mid air? I saw a 25-06 bullet explode on the shoulder bone of a deer once and go no further, but the deer died instantly so who knows what that was all about. Hydrostatic shock? No visible damage to the heart lung area, the bullet just exploded on the shoulder and had a softball sized entry wound.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Bubba, I'm with you. I don't think a few foot-pounds of energy dumped onto the hillside behind the animal is much of a waste, and sometimes they will run. I like a good blood trail. Interestingly enough, of all the deer I've shot (a few dozen) I've had exactly one instance where the bullet didn't completely penetrate and exit, and that was a 180 grain Remington Core-Loct .30-06 I shot at a doe standing quartering away at 80 yards. I was surprised, to say the least. Fortunately, she dropped on the spot. Tracking her would have been a nightmare.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

BubbaHave you seen the difference of meat damage of a composite bullet compared to a hollow point bullet on a full size roast? The hollow point doesn’t do too much damage and passes clean thru still making some damage. The composite bullet destroys the roast like a bomb and doesn’t exit. WOW!So you Personally, don't buy it?Think again!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

KJLet me take a shot.Optimum bullet performance for some is that the bullet expend "all" it's energy "within" the target! Ergo: maximum energy transfer, maximum damage, maximum kill!Personally, I don't buy it! But, different strokes for different folks!Bubba

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from KJ wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Sarg, I'm interested to learn why you don't want the bullet to exit. It would seem to me that, in the event the animal runs, you would want an exit wound and blood trail. I know that in the places I get to hunt, where the brush is thick, a blood trail is essential to finding an animal that runs even 50 yards, especially in low-light situations.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

BA, Post :March 10, I agreen with your thinking, If the .243 is marginal on deer(I agree), why use on an Elk or Black bear? One should always match bullet and calibre to the game, I don't belive in exiting bullets, I as do the older people, the bullet should stay inside.. I've had 150 gr.Rem. core lock stay inside, I've had them exit., I like to dig the bullet out,examine it, and make my decision on performance then....

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

YohanInstead of saying, that was back in 1974 in High School, I implied that was when I weighed in at 165 pounds of pure piss and vinegar running up and down mountain sides in Arizona practically every weekend hunting! Both the Football and Track & Field Coach wanted me on the team. Every time I would go out, they would say, either come out for practice or go with your Father! I chose to go out with my Father every time because he was an awesome Father that enjoyed taking me places and showing me how to do things that I loved to do and just to be with him. I’m glad I did that, September of 2006, I kidnapped both him and mom due to his deteriorating health and moved them in with Mary and I. Dad passed away last September of lung cancer and other crippling ailments due to the exposure to highly toxic chemicals and radiation from the Titan II ICBM Missile. When I go into the woods, I glance over and he is no longer there. Today, Alex my Grandson occupies that seat with his big blue eyes and smile ear to ear just I did when I was his age. Alex doesn’t have the heavy built that I had then and that 20 gauge Mossberg 500 is a little to much gun for him, so I’m going to replace the recoil pad and add some weight in the but of the gun.By the way, those groups at 200 yards of 2.5 -3 inches, is that off the bench or sitting position? Sitting position? I’ll believe that! and if so, why are you not out shooting High Power Competition. That group falls into the Master Class Yohan!I know you are capable of doing it BROTHER!!

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Yohan,I've read that California and Barret do not get along well since Ca. has banned the 50 cal. So Mr. Barret created the 416. Probably did it just to piss them off but I hear its a fine piece.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Ya Clay ,.. have heard of 416 Barrett,..but for the life of me I cannot tell you where from.This of course would be second hand but,.. if not mistaken that or someting similar is the piece snipers are using in Afganastan to reach out and scracth the bad guys ears.Also 50 of course,.. but heard from someone ( damn) can't think who ,.. they are getting them so far a way./Other than reading terain secondary strike (bullet goes through bad guy hits earth rock etc),.. they (bad guys) cant tell where its comming from.Anyway will check in on next subject100 lbs clay?UFFFFDAHH !!You musta been one speedy sumbitch !! YUK YUK

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

YohanYou know that if I didn’t pick on you, you probably think I was mad at you! 2 months ago my Grandson Alex told his Teacher that I ran 4 miles in 24 minutes. The teacher looked at me and I immediately replied, yes I did and that Sir was 100 pounds ago. I thought the teacher was going to die laughing, looked at me and said, we are getting old and what kids will do to us my friend!By the way, Barret came out with a cartridge that is smaller in diameter and smaller case, but on lighter armor that the 50 BMG can take this rifle outshoots it at 2500 yards. It’s called the .416 Barrett! 400 grain bullet smoking out about 3300 fps!

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from KJ wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Well said, Yohan.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Truly clay I was wondering what it would take to get you to rise to the bate YUK YUKIts a never ending story,.. this debate about guns and cartridges,.. and I like to read what you and others have to say ,.But the debate is about hudredths or thousanths of an inch,Nowwoth the advent of fancy shmancy( better) bullets. It has as someone mentioned blurred to a great degree the caliber debate.As a better "bullettoes" will whack a bigger animal easier from smaller cannon.Simple as that.So it comes down to emotion and or experiance and or maybe some engineering backgound.(me)_Or all three,.. Gun, cartriges ballistics ( terminal primarily) like women ,.. most of em similar unless ugly ,.. its just what you like and or what your used to.As to marksmanship.I doubt tommorrow I could out shoot you,. in most venues.But i also doubt i shoot as much as you do.I probbaly pop off ( maybe) 1500 ronds per year in the deer size calbers,( at targets) ..and that amount with a 22,.. many hundreds of shots with a 65lb recurve bow with wooden arrows that I make,.. and 2-3 hundred shot shells depending on the year.I can howevr say with realtive certainty that I will keep most of my shots with handloaded 8 x 57 a 6.5 x 55 and a 30-06 within 2.5 -3 inches at 200 yds .45 x 70 and 30-30 one ragged hole at 50 yds.Best group at 80 yds with 45-70 11/2 inch,.. 30-30 about the same or a smidge less.However beyond 200 yds +/- is a distance to me regardless of what smoke pole one is shooting,that becomes marginal for over 90 % of the "sports" in he woods. Mostly cause they dont know( cant tell) 200yds from 325yds across a swamp,..or down a fire cut.In additoon I agree with Mr Petzal in that there are game shots and there are papaer puchers.Much the same as one may distinguish betwenn hanger jockys and Fighter pilotsYUK YUK.So it appears to me that you and i are many times not even on the same page.Ths due in my humble opinion to your apparent need to be right and the same time the big dog. Which by the way IS a pursuit that is your right,.to the point of nausia if you choose.Therefore, thusly, and accordingly.The activity I engage in for the most part is hunting,.. with a favorite tool ( rifle, shot gun bow & arrow,..etc)Accordingly a good part of it to me is intentionally NOT shooting somehting in the next zip code.Were I to engage in that ( and it has occured to me) it would be with a 50 cal.Elg at 1000 yds would be a diffrent kind of rush.Maybe similar to getting so close to a animal you can smell it.Which is also something I have done.( with a bow)I saw a deer shoulder shot with a .243,.. in the early 80's.I saw and heard the round ( think 90 gr) hit the anmal,on the point of the shoulder,...at 50 yds +/- certainly less than 60yd.Blood all over but the animal was lost ,.. not suficant penetration.If that would have beena 6.5 or 7 x5 or any number of calibers with bullet weight of 140-160,...dead deer.Point being the physics and math do not change over time ..sigficant/ appropriate mass/ sufficant speed 2400 fps (is good good enough) and a higher sectional density is what i consider resposible ethical hunting and sportsmanship.Marksmanship is opart of it ,.. but you dont shoot tanks from long distance with 30-06Have a great day Clay ,..

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

YohanIf a 243 is a sissy gun YUK YUK?Why do you make up due to lack of marksmanship with a bigger bullet! YUK YUK YUK!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Then I might have to buy me a .25-06 and find out!

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from Walt Smith wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave, I don't understand your thinking about the Winchester silver tips. My dad used 180 grainers for years and never had a problem with them. Of course he always shot all his deer in the neck.I use the same bullet in his old Rem.740 and it is the most accurate bullet I've found for it. My other 30-06 seems to digest Remington core locs the best. When I head to the swamps I always chamber a 180 grain Winchester fail safe , which is the best bullet ever made as far as I'm concerned. I've neck shot 3 bucks with this round at close range and every one of them have literaly sat on their a** and never took a step. I'm not sold on the XP-3, cost is way too much and I've got a lot of fail safes left Ha Ha.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterEvery 25-06 I've came across loves IMR4831 for 100-120 grain bullets!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim In MO,.. OOOOPS ,..Certianly you know where you are so I am appropriatly corrected .Those guys in Wyomming tho at the Chianne Wild West days were however some crazy dudes.Other than one venue in Tiwan(one night in that town makes a grown man tremble)Never seen so much drinkin and fightin.I was amature an boxerx soldier and was mentored by special forces friend to some extent in the martial arts.And i can tell ya the,.. celbration in Chianne was at the time not a place for children or the timmid.Or anyone really who didnt wanna drink and fight.That bunch ranch hands cowboys rodio guys and attending women , so to speak make the bad ass bikers look like a nitting club in an honest fist fight.However to the point ,. I am at present blissfully divorced.Former wife was an only child so no sisters ,. which may well not be a bad thing.The English "stewardess" was not my wife ,. although after a point she did broach the subject.I was to be honest for a time not known for my keen judgemt regarding the women in my life and I passed.As I did on a couple other beautiful down to earth women who I m certain would have been fantastic spousal candidates.The reasons why I was married to whom i was married are not really inportant,..aside from the fact that I would sooner se myself on fire than to do that again.I will say now,. what will be on my tomb stone ,.."It is what it is,. not more and not less",.. keep an eye peeled for what sneakin up behind ya Jim ,.. but keep movin ahead,.. life is for livinnot wishin and hopin.Have found also that there is likley no woman on earth (unless she actually hunts or fishes) or her father or brother hunts or has hunted.Who will understand,.. a 7 daytrip to the deer , turky grouse woods.That program is not downloaded into her brain not woven ino heremotional an phycological fabric.Clasic example is a good friend explaining to his recent"East coast wife" ,. that he wanted to go bowhunting ,. tree stand hunting ,. for a 2 1/2 days.Her respoce is why does it take 2 1/2 days ,. her father palyed 18 all the time and it only took 4- 5 hours .I rest my caseIf I feel the need,.. or am suficiantly guilted into it.I now just inform the tender gender. Which is another misnomer as they (the ladies) are waaay tougher mentally and emotionally than 99% of men.That i have decided to go hunting or fishing.I f this does not interfear withcovert plans she has been harboring that i have not to date been made aware of.I will be gone for an estimated time unless I feel I can get away with a longer stay.Thusly unless I am siwashing in a tent with buddies she ( the woman of the moment ) is welcome to accompany me so long as I dont experiance the classic whine and bitch after the first 2 whole days.Which brings me to this.Due to professiona endevors I have come in contact over the years with quite a few women.If I EVER get married again it will be to a woman who either (1)already shoots in some capacity or actully wants to learn(2) Has no issue with hunting and who either doesm or has and or is willing to learn to hunt or fish(3)Who has no problem with wild meat in the kitchen meaning fish fowl or venisonand (4) is not a social climbing coury club wanna be,..As stated I would sooner set myslef on fire as do that circut again.Not that i hate country clubs or golf or tennis,.or the people who doI used to golf but it bores me, beyond torture .. I was /am a guy who religiously works out most days most of my life.Its just I just have very littel in common with people who just golf. The other truth is once I played a course a few times ,.. to me it was like wacthing the same movie over and over.So find what you like to do and do it ,.if its hunting and or fishing so be it,.. or golf or just shooting guns ,.. what ever.Find those who like to do what you do or at least are not opposed to what you do and engage in the appropriate activity with them,..If you do that i gurante thisYou won't have the time to deal with the ones that are in yourway.and they will not be able to get to you.When that happes you win by your absence in venue that is poison to who and what you are.which will allow you to spend more guilt free time and money pursuing the a most noble couse in lifeThe pursuit of a higher you. which leads to an amazing aray of other awakinings243 is a sissy gun YUK YUK

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

How is this for "fancy schmancy" bullets: 265 gr. .430 flat point bullets cast from mostly wheel weight metal at about 1300-1350 fps from my .44 mags. It don't get much fancier than that. My hunting buds and I have killed quite a few mulies and goats with this bullet but admitedly not all were one shot kills by any means. The reason as you might expect turned out to be inadequate shot placement rather than poor projectile performance.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA Mntnhunter,You didn't mention the barrel length on that 2506. My recommendation would be to take Clay's advice (hard to beat) and if that doesn't work try 50 gr Vihta-Vuori N 560 or 51 gr Reliant Reloader 19 if you have a 22" or shorter barrel. For a long barrel (say 23+) 53 gr Reloader 22, 55 gr IMR 7828, 55.5 gr Hodgdon H1000 and 60 gr Retumbo are powders to consider. In other words taylor your powder according to how much barrel you have to burn it in. Generally the longer the barrel the slower the powder you should use. These are all max loads so start low and work up to them in your gun. The Nosler manual gives a very slight edge to IMR4831 with the 120 part. My experience with a chronograph indicates that each gun usually has it's own favorite powder so I try many. Keep a sharp eye out for signs of high pressure especially if you are using military brass.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Tom,Would love to talk to you about that. Love '06, wondered about loadings for big game such as African plains game and TB.

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from Tom wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

My favorite bullet is Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 180 gr in 30-06 loaded by Federal. Accurate and deadly. I used on deer and African game.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Yohan,No, what I quantify as 'best day of all' is being gone all week hunting and coming back at last minute and she understands!!!!!!!!Does your wife have a sister?PS, Mo. is Missouri, but whats a couple miles

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

retired way car riderI've tried all sorts of "bullets" in my .270. Everything from the 90 grain FBHP that Sierra builds to the Nosler 160 grain Partition.About the only thing I haven't shot in it yet is the 140 grain by anybody.At this point, the only loads I shoot are the 90 gr and 130 gr, both by Sierra. The 90 shoots 3 inches high at 100 instead of 1.5 inches. Six clicks down on my scope and the 90 shoots 1.5 inches high at a hundred and I have a kick a#& varmint rifle. Six clicks back up, 130 gr deer rifle.Outside deer season, I carry my .22 Hornet with a 45 grain spitzer Sierra with 9.75 grains of Herco 2400.Killed a pig (small) at about 75 yards with the Hornet just last Sunday while I was out shed hunting!Bubba

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from retired way car rider wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba, I feel the same as you do about the 270 Win, but, as I live almost next door the the Hornady factory, I use their 130 grain SST--60 grains of H 4831-- federal match primers--great load and caliber for me---the only thing I don't use Hornady bullets for is the wife's pet 243 Win---use Speer 105 grain spitzers in it---these two guns have killed a lot of Nebraska mule deer.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterTry IMR4831 with a Federal 215 mag primer and let me know

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay,I have found those "fancy schmansy" bullets worth every penny.WA Mtnhunter,When I loaded for my 7mm Rem mag, I used the NP-120 with,as I recall,62grs of 4350. I had never chrono'ed it, but I'm sure it was cooking at over 3000fps. This was my P-dog load for practice with the occasional coyote and fox added to the bag.Just as accurate as the day was long, and dropped animals with a bad attitude!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

ClayThe 120 gr Partitions shoot fine in my .257 Roberts (all 3) but not so good in my 'naught six.I have loaded with H380 and IMR 4350 with Rem and Win LR primers with good results for the 120 gr Partition and 110 gr Accubond.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Reagrding "fancy schmansy" bullets,.. I concure.Unless and untill Im back in the places where critters make a habit of dinning on indigenous personal, and the odd hunter or two.I have found standard Hornady,. to be a faithfull and consistant performer. for all North American ruminants.Not to metion ( as is has been from by others here in ) not requiring significant transfer of funds to checking in order to cover the purchaese of a few hundred projectiles.and that is all I have to sayabout that.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Way to go Clay! Now I have a new problem. I wear bi-focals. Does that mean that I have look for something special in a scope?First, I was shopping for a rifle. Next, I was going to put a scope on it. Now, apparently, I need something other than a scope from a catalogue or sporting goods store.Also, my Optometrist is an avid hunter/rifleman. Should I consult him before buying anything?YooperJack

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

PSAnd my Father too!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

You guys with your fancy smancy bullets, I’ll stick to my Hornady bullets that are tried and proven by me, myself and I with 45 years of hunting and competition!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

ShakyDepends on the time of year, and the workload received to process the item. Leopold does have a fast turnaround I must agree and it was the #1 seller in Alaska when I was there 86-90 and I’ll bet is still the #1 seller for performance reliability and warranty integrity by Leopold. Please don’t get me wrong about Leopold; they are worthy to be on any of my rifles for competition and hunting in the most extremes along with Sightron period. However Sightron you just go to a Sightron dealer and simply exchange right then and there for a brand new one so beet that! Remember, the price of a Sightron compared to a Leopold is the equivalent to the next higher model Leopold. By the way about Zeiss optics, they are the best in the world and are used by NASA etc. I’m not looking for aliens on some distant planet. LOL! To get serious about it, I believe you’re paying more for the name, rather than the product. This goes back to the report that off the shelf eye wear at Wal-Mart for less than 30 bucks or less has superior optics compared to eye masters etc. that you $200 to $500 for the same strength of lens and shape. Bi and tri focal are a deferent story for they are made specifically for the person.

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from Y0--han wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim in MontanaYa ya,. and her ve go some more yet too,.. ya ?Nuts ??? please,.. qualify nuts.It may be difeent in Montana,.I say this as I was in Wyoming once ( Wild west ays,.Chianne ) back in 70's,.. now those boys are / were nuts.Also as wondefull as that experiance was ( assume you refer to two deer in one day way back when up in Wisconsin ) it was by no means my best day.Depending on how one qualifies these things .That came later, involving 4 deer in two days (2 with one shot from 12 ga slug) my 8 x 57 and a very well constructed airline stewardess from England (currently refered to as "attendants") who was quite fond cooking and other domestic endevors.You would simply not believe what that woman could do with a Canada Goose.She was not a half bad shot either ,.. but her true genius lay in more womanly venues.The experiane related (your all knowingness) was secondary as to intent and focus, and only used to make a point ,..Which is,.. there just aint much you can say negative about 30-06 and 180gr core locks.Unless the recoil is more than one may care to deal with.Have one scope cut ( wery faded now) and my nose broken by recoil,.(twice) so I speak in this regard from some experiance.Please keep in mind however ,ths round (30 -06) is not my "go to" cartridge,..As previously stated I have predisposition to metric stuff, and of late (under 100 steps)my 45-70 thumper.Realizing 40 plus years, chasing Whitetails and other creatures.. some birds, bunnys and waterfowl(no bears) ,.. does not make me an expert ,..I there fore, thusly and accordingly,.. most humbly seek your indulgence in these important matters of discussion.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have much experience with the Nosler Partition, which were all 1 shot kills.Most bullets I did not recover, and some were complete pass through shots;but the animals were dead within 20 yds when shot.I also have used Speer, and Sierra bullets with good results, and I must admit the Hornady Interlock is a winner for the price. I purchased some because they were cheap(100 count box for $24.99)and they are worth at least twice the price in my opinion.Currently, I am going to try the Accubond 225 gr bullets in my .35 Whelen as soon I can get to the range.About minimum caliber for deer;that could take another blog discussion...have we debated this topic before Dave?

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay,Sir; I'll tell you a story about a Leupold VX11 that quit adjusting up & down. Sent to the factory 2/28/08, recieved repaired, 3/11/08. That is NOT 10 weeks,sir, that is 11 days. The scope is a 1968 mod. with a forward erector, signified by a tiny dimple about 7/8" behind the front bell. Leupold informed me that clamping the ring over the little dimple will cause the scope to loose verticle adjustment. When I baught that scope in '68, that is exactly where I clamped the front ring, firmly, so it wouldn't slip. It stood the recoil of the 300 Weatherby for about 1400 or so rounds, but I put it on a 30/06,and had no adjustment,(I moved the ring about 1/4"), I never knew what that dimple was for. Anyway, it is rare that I get a chance to rattle your chain, so I could't pass it up,yuk,yuk.Back on subject, my 2cents worth on various designer bullets, when I am supplied with designer game to shoot, I'll start shooting designer bullets. Until then, Hornady makes as fine a game bullet as I need. I refuse to plop down a dollar apiece for bullets that don't kill any deader than those that costs .25c.I would have to cut my shooting by 75%. I know, some of you will say "practice with the cheap stuff and hunt with the better", but none will print the same, and my old standby still kills "graveyard dead", as one stated it. But if you fellows can afford the desinger bullets, and like them, go right ahead.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterWhat grain Nosler Partition, powder and primer you using in that 257 Roberts that your not a happy camper with?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dr. RalphWhat part of the country you in?

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from Brian wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave,Thank you for awnsering my bullet question. I became interested in bullet performance after a Hornady Interlock deframented on 190 class mulie. I got the deer, but I swore I would choose a better bullet in the future.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

To my thinking and teh game and where I hunt, the REm Core-lokt and the Swift Scirocco in l50 or l80 gr bullets is enough for 99.9% of what we hunt. I do like the Sciroccos for long range shooting and the Core-lokts for short range. I use the 180 Scirocco;s out west as I hunt Mule Deer and Elk at same time.No doubt more game has been killd with the Core-lokt than all the othr combined. It works fine out to 200 yds, then kind of falls off. Plus with the Scirocco'c I love the Polymer tip for opening and teh boattail's.The l50 gr is now a very long range bullet. As a rule 200 yds is about my range, as my western guns are zeroed in for, but here at home at 200 yds or less the Core-lokts in l50 grs are gret for W-tails. If truth be known, I bet l/2 the hunters in the Western states use Corer-lokts on hunts today. They can be purchased at many out of the way stores if you shoot up all teh ammo you brought out..I even stoped at a Saloon in the Wilds of MT and they had 3 calibers of ammo. 270, 30-06 and 300 win mag allCore-lokts. shoot what-ever shoots best for you and what your fiearm likes & the game you hunting.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Yohan,Your nuts, You should have posted that experience on Daves' blog 'My best day of All'.Of course maybe it wasn't your best. Lucky

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

oddball,Yes , I've had a weird experience with the Fusion and will never buy them again. My son was new to hunting, had never taken a deer so against my better judgement I thought I'd hook him up with something new and would hold together for penetration if his shot placement wasn't perfect. So I bought several boxes of Fusions and we went to the range. To make a long story short when I arrived at the dead doe (very small) I asked him about the shot, he said she was only 15 yds so he shot before she ran. I said that exit hole is really big (size of small pear), he said, dad thats where I shot her. He was right, no exit hole just large meat damage and metal fragments inside. Luckily enough lung damage had been done he got his first deer. If that deer had been a 200 lb. buck it would have been gone deep in woods to die a nasty death.I have a box of 19 fusion '06 bullets, cheap.

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from chuckb wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave: Nice to see a word from DickGun, who's probably seen 10,000 rounds shot at big game in his career as a guide and outfitter. He could write a book on bullets, and probably should.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

By the by Bubba ,. that laod sound very familiar,..Could it be ,..that was Cactus Jacks recipie ?

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba ,.. That is the way it is ,. guns especially bolt guns that are Purdy ,.. kinda like women ,..36 c vs 36 c+After a point its in the eye of the beholder,.. or ahhem,.the hands of the beholderwhich reminds me ,..have a great eveming

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ripper IIIAs an after thought, welcome to the world of the white tail freaks! We have fun, we argue, we've even been know to throw male bovine fecal matter about, but if you need help, SOMEBODY on these blogs will provide an answer!Bubba

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ripper IIIThe .270 Winchester is just a good caliber!Now, most of what I post is personal preference with what I "know" about thrown in on the rare occasion!Is the .270 Winchester "THE" caliber? NO! To me? YES!I just like the .270. It was the first caliber I picked up after realizing there was something out there besides a .30-30 Win. I have killed many deer with it. I have lost some, not many! I have missed some, not many! When all is said and done, I'll take my .270 Win with it's 130 grain Sierra BTSP sitting on top of 46.5 grains of IMR 4895 and a Win LR primer. It shoots right along with factory loads and performs admirably. Well enough that I see no need to go elsewhere!Once again, my thoughts, nothing etched in stone!Bubba

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ray,...Was gonna stop but this to youI hunted a lot of the upper tier of states for a few years.Most times in Wi as that is where my father lived when he was still walking the planetBut also Minnisota ,..Michigan PA and New York. Never made it to Main ,. always wanted to but just how it goesI was up (way up) in WI this past year.As predictable as the sun coming up in the east,.. unless your compass gets screwed up which is another storyMany rifles many rounds but the predominat flavor and round used by the boys who know what they are about in the big woodsis 30-06 180gr soft point.That round IS,....HUNTING UP NORT in da big pine country.I get teased as due to predisposition toward metric calibers e I carry 8 x 57,.. 6.5 x 55 or 30 -30and latley a 45-70 cause i like the way it sounds when i shoot it YUK YUK ,.. and it is a butt kicker under 100 yds.But make no mistake,..Guys who actually shoot deer on a consistant basis know.A 180 grain Rem core lock out of your choice of 30-06 will get it done posty hasty ,Unless of course you are shooting them through the tops of their deer earsYup,.. you got right gun and right round,.. never shot anything with a 220 ,.. so cant comment ,.. but know fellas who have,.. they like it for bear too.one guy said 220 gr also good for shooting hole in frozen lake for ice fishing ,.. again cant comment .Once many moons ago hunting way up in WI,.. on Monday following opemnih weekend(99.9%) OF ALL HUNTERS were back home working,.wacthing football etc.We were young .. had the time so decided to hunt until the day before thanks giving.Not marrid yet so wife to be was kinda pissed but she was warned and she did get over it. Made it bak in time for turkey .There was no one else in the woods for miles except me my buddys and the trees.And what ever else lives in that giant God forsaken country ,.. that i love to hunt in.I dropped my Mauser on a rock(only time ever) bent the front site beyond repair.Only had one gun with me and I was sick.But it broke the spell ,. we started seeing deer right away after that.A buddy had a backup Browning bolt 1960's vintage 30-06,.. with 2x scope,..and a box of 180gr Rem corelocsTwo rounds in a dixie cup at 100 yds told me I was good to go.I used that gun to shoot two deer the nexy day.One running like crazy, (flat out running like a horse) ,.. not bounding across a swamp ,did about 14 summerault when it got hit,.. and one standing in a clearing just wating to get shot YUK YUK..Both deer dropped like they were pole axed,. tried to buy the gun ,. but my fiend would not sell ,..Yup 30-06 in my humble opinion is the "Big Dog" in the North Woods

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from oddball wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

My 25-06 loves the federal fusions. Shoots them well under an inch. I shot a 190 dressed 9 pt from about 30 yards and had complete pass through. Heart and lungs were completely destroyed. He ran all of 20 yards. Anyone else had any experience with fusions. I haven't seen any one mention them.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

In summary, after all is said and done. The one bullet designer that I admire more than any other, remember this is a personal thing now, is Joyce Hornady. To me he made reliable reloading bullets affordable to all. If I had to pick just one bullet type to use on all North American big game, it would be the Hornady Spire Point Interlock. It is this bullet that I have come to judge all others by. Sure, there are better bullets and there are lesser bullets. There are a host of good bullet designers out there also. My only regret is that I didn't discover them sooner. I imagine lots of you are like me, you just like to try different bullets to test them and to see how they perform. I've been doing this off and on for years. The most convenient testing media for me has been Blacktail Deer during legal hunting seasons. This may contribute to some extent on poor results. Like being too close, too high of velocity, not enough mass to the animal, etc. It's alot of fun and I'll continue to do it. But if I had to choose just one bullet, regardless of the Hornady Company's attitude toward my fellow hunters, it would be the Spire Point Interlock. In the meantime I'll shoot plenty of other bullets too.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Raph how ya doin ,..pretty busy of late ,.. but check in ,.. when time permits,..Was a little woried ,..that Moc something or other guy was gonna kick my a$$ YUK YUK,..unt here ve go agin more.As I have stated in earlier miss-spellings,. it has been my lot and privialge to take (now) a smidge over 110 white tails of varying sizes ,..This of course does not refer to that associated with a caucasion house of ill repute.Having done this (shot deer) with litteraly everything from a 22 LR ( which was purly and simply self defence and 36 yeras ago ) to 45-70 12 ga slugs and,....one with 375 H&HUnderstated,you don't need 375 H&H for deer.. It was a messy proposition ,.. decent deer maybe 150- 160lb on the hoof ,. hit it head on (270gr) ,.. and completly ruind a hind 1/4.Did not however have to look for it.This (also) in my humble opinion is classic example of deminshing marginal returns.In adition ,..it is now,. has been and will continue to be my humble opinion.Regardless of the caliber of the "arrow" ,.. to a point .Sufficant weight /mass,. and sectional density at speeds under warp three,and above 2400fps, .. correctly placed will kill dead ,.. anything that breaths,.. that is not evil.This of course excluding x wife.who may well withstand tank canister at close range.These ballalistic paramaters do not apply to shotgun and front loaders.Raltives in Norway say they on regular basis dispatch the" ELG " (moose) with 160 gr 6.5 x 55 ,..and most Scandanvian countries Finland included are all pretty high on the .308Yup 7.62 natoThey consider it good Elg ( moose) and seal medicine.One guy in Norway says,..Ya I hand load .308 with 160 gr bullets and the Elg / moose get pretty sick pretty quick.He also says 150 gr work good to ,. he just prefers a heaver bullet ,..as he says,..you yust neever know.The same guy also recently got hold of a Marlin 45-70(from somwhere) and he just loves that gun.He says,.. ya Yohan shotta beeg cow behind da front leg running across a bog at 70 meter ,. legs get tangle up pretty quick,.. YUK YUKPretty sure he was using 300 gr winchester hp.The few deer I could not find,.. (not included in body count) .Were small deer marginally hit with light fast projectiles,..(yes 243 with 90 grainers) up close which is when I simply stopped using anything less than than 150 gr on deer..The deer taken with 6.5 (160 gr) were dead before they knew there was a serious problem,.. but had blow up with 25-06 with light bulletsMay take is most of my lost animals,.. may well have not been lost using a heavier "arrow" at slower speed.Knew an old gunsmith ( not my father) who was crippled (polio) who said "he couldn't chase em in his wheel chair".So he shot a minor truck load of whitetails from his truck (special permit) with 110 gr out of 30-06,..But he did tell me one day over coffee.Had gone to get a gun he had stocked.A few he shot at close range ,under 30 yds,.. his son had to go find. some he didnt find.His take ?? bullet failure,..as stated her in by other participants.Thusly ,.. after due onsideration.His conclusion was not to shoot deer of any size with that load ,..under 30 - 40 ydsHe kept a 30-30 scope sighted Marlin along side for the close stuff.Which to me becomes the interseting partAs it did over time come to pass that he decided.Out to 50 yds +/-,..A 30-30 ( 150 gr) was better killer,..than 06 with 110 grain pill just over warp 3.within that distance.Past the 60-70 yd mark he said 110 grain pill out of 06 had enough time to slow down, so bullet would not fragmet.. and the deer acted like they got hit by lightning.UUUUUFDAAA !!!

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from Gary wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I just realized that my second paragraph makes absolutely no sense.It should have read something along the lines of: lighter designed bullets propelled at modest velocities.Sorry

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from Gary wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I wish I had paid more attention in physics class, as I am sure it would lend support to what I am about to say. But alas.I tend to believe that if the majority of your shots--on whitetails--are at close range, then slower lighter designed bullets are best.Most of the hunting I have done occured in a part of West Virginia where a long shot is seventy five yards and the majority of shots are significanlty shorter.When I first started reloading, I fell under the illusion that faster is always better. Needless to say, I loaded everything to the max. There was only one problem with this, no matter what bullets I used, most seeemed to pass straight through with little in the way of internal damage. Then I read that most commercial ammo is loaded significantly below max so that it was safe to shoot in older firearms. So I started to back off on the velocity and miraculously the problem abated.In addition, one of the guys that hunts with us has carried a TC Contender with a twelve inch barrel chambered for the 6.5 TCU ( a 223 case necked up to accept the 6.5mm bullets) since the early 1980s. This gun propels a 120 grain Ballistic Tip at about 1800 fps, yet we have never tracked a deer he shot with it. Occassionally, there will not be an exit wound, but the internal damage is always so severe that most of the deer he has shot dropped on the spot.

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from 1729 wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I'm still trying to figure out what a .243 is good for. I've shot plenty of prairie dogs with mine, and I've taken deer. It does both of those just fine, dead is dead. I'm going to guess that it would do alright on pronghorn, impala, duikar, or any other variety of African plains antelope that weighs in at less than 230 pounds.It will also kill coyotes, racoons, foxes, badgers, and such. It is a good cartridge for beginning shooters - low recoil. It is a good cartride for beginners because of the variety of bullets available and overall low cost.There are a lot of things the .243 isn't good at. It can't wash your car, it can't televise the revolution, and it can't brew coffee.Changing gears:A lot of people say the .243 is a dandy cartridge for deer, but you have to be careful about shot placement. Please find me a rifle that I don't have to be careful about shot placement. Please find me a rifle that whenever I pull the trigger my target is going to die because shot placement is not important.

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from Jim wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have been using a .243 since the early 1960s. My Remington 600 was a whole $67.99 at Gibson's in North Platte, NE. It's on it's 4th barrel and while it has killed thousands and thousands of P. Dogs, and over a 100 deer have been hung in the barn using it. All shot with 95 to 100 grain bullets. I have never lost a deer and I have made some long shots, but most are under 150 yards. I feel I'm a good shot thanks to the P. Dogs mainly. We like to shot them at the 1/4 mile fence line or 440 yards. When you get 90% of those shots, any deer is an easy shot. The ol'600 is ugly with most of the blue and stock finish gone, but it will always put 5 shoots touching at 100 yards if you do your part. New Shilen barrel always helps. It has never had a factory round, only handloads neck sized only.I have also shot over 50 deer with a muzzleloader and never had to track a one. I even killed a ton Bison with one shot with a muzzleloader using 150 grs Triple 7 and a 440 gr PowerBelt Bullet at 80 yards. Broke front shoulder facing me, took off the top of the heart and lodged in the off front shoulder. It was recovered at the locker plant and wighted 411 grains.Bullet placement is first, then bullet power and strenght. A gun yo can accurately shoot is very important, more important than a .007 increase in bullet diamenter.

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from Heath wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have shot a 243 with very good success, many of the deer falling in their tracks. I also shot a 150 lb doe right behind the shoulder with a 220 gr. bullet from a 300 win mag. That deer fell in its track and then got up and ran over 250 yds. and jumped a fence before expiring. I know shoot a .30-378 Weatherby Mag. The only animal that i have shot with it that did not fall in its tracks was a 200 lb Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Shooting 180 gr. Barnes X at 3450 fps MV, the bullet did not expand at all. I thought i was missing. The deer fell within 15 yards of the first shot, but never even reacted to the first 2 shots. Upon recovering the deer, 3 shots right behind the front shoulder. Point is, even though you have perfect shot placement, some animals just have a will to live.

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from Roy wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

With all of the talk of <200 yard shots, I am surprised no one mentioned the boring old Remington Core-Lokt Round Nose Bullet? I have used this factory bullet in 180 and 220 grain from my 30-06 Remington 700 Titanium for the past few years yeilding nine whitetail deer with the 180's and two black bear (180# and 356#) with the 220's. Shots were all one shot one kill and ranged from 25 yards to 130 yards. None of these critters traveled more than fifteen yards, but then again, shot placement was where it needed to be.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Yohan welcome back I have had the exact same experience with my Norma 150 gr. 7X57's... UUUFDAHHH!

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay, I was speaking from experience... if I could find a place to hunt that actually offered shots over 100 yards I would probably say they are the best at long range too.RipperIII your ballistic tip did exactly what it was supposed to do... They are designed for thin skinned animals and blow up on impact taking out internal organs and the base exits for a blood trail, which is never needed. Massive damage as you witnessed. I am in a state of bewilderment though. If you were taking Petzal's advice you would have purchased a .338 and missed the deer completely, cut your eyebrow in half and been knocked out of a perfectly good tree stand breaking your neck and coming face to face with the ghost of recoil past...I'm going to re-ask crm3006's comment... Paul, what's the .243 for?

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

And here dey go again,..Ya ya ,.. vill someone please pull da plug already .Shoot da animal to close mit da light bullet it is gonna do goofy tings ya.We all know dat ,. also we all know dat preimium bulletoes let people shoot bigger criters mit da light bullet but,..too close mit da speedy ones is recipie for bad terminal ballistic ,.. ve all know dat one too,.. ya ??No matter what caliber da arrow is like to see minimum 130 gr for da deer ,.. and 165 ( 30-06) for da moose.Not of von da pills need to go fastr than 3000 fps niether no how.I whacked a couple bucks up nort once mit da 8 x 57 and da 159 grNorma,.. UUUFDAHHH boys.89 yds both,.. one right after da odderYou could have put NFL regulaton football on da wound channel.All da old timers know ,.. to fast is too fast bullets act funny ,.. especialy when you shoot da critter up close and personal like.as to da moose / elk ,. 200 grain turdy oh six is preeeeety good ,..moose medicine you bet.Some of da boys even in Africa use it to shoot da Elephant, ya

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

As I read the posts, the common denominator with the Nosler Partition failures as shedding of mass and failure to penetrate completely. I hear (and have seen) all the time about the bullet that "came to rest under the off side hide". Therein lies the problem. As I previously posted, and still believe, a penetrating shot that perforates the chest cavity forward of the diaphram will cause lungs to collapse and limit distance run after the hit. A deer hit will either run or stand and drop. Hard to predict which. The only thing that guarantees a drop is massive damage to the brain or spinal column and associated nerve bundles. Any deer not instantly paralyzed can run 100+ yards on adrenalin regardless of organ destruction.If you just have to have the one-shot-drop-in-the-tracks everytime, better get real good on brain and spine shots. Otherwise place your shots well and know that you might have to do a little tracking.ClayMy .257 is a Roberts, not a Weatherby Mag, although I'm thinking about buying one. My Wby MK V is a .30-06.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

RipperIIIThere is no real comparison between 243/270.As far as the 7/08-270, are you asking which is more powerful? My nod would go to the 270. The bullet weights are basically the same, the 7mm diameter is bigger but by only .007". The real difference is in the case size. The 270 holds more powder and thus more velocity and more recoil. If my buying decision came down to power I'd say 270, if it was about recoil then 7/08 but only with the same weight rifle otherwise your not gaining a thing.

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from dickgun wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave,I have not had extensive experience with all of the bullets you refer to. However, as I have commented before in this blog, I have had extensive experience with Swift A-Frame bullets on huge brown bear. Shortly after Lee brought the bullets to market a client used them on a bear in the 10' class. Both bullets were recovered after the kill and were most impressive in both pentration and expansion - the two most critical elements on dangerous game. Since we never allowed handloads in company rifles (for obvious reasons) we did not start using Swift in company backup guns until they were available in factory loads. Then they became standard. They were the bullet of recommendation to all my clients. Personally, I have used Scirocco with good results on mountain game. As for the "partition issue" I will not (heh,heh,heh) get into that.dickgun

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from Gerald Keller wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I had complete faith in Nosler Partitions untill I shot a buck at about 55 yards with a 225 gr. Partition from a .358 Win.Deer went down,came up running and did not provide a second shot because of the brush.Never found it.Couple of days later I shoot another buck,same load,45 yds. through the shoulder.Deer runs off and I don't find him till nezt morning(27 degree night,meat was fine).Traveled over 250 yds.with double back which made finding trail in dark immpossible.Bullet had shed all lead and we only found the jacket in the body cavity.There were no lungs left.I've switched to Barnes Triple Shocks,and love them.As to pressure,I find that I can usually load from one to four grains more powder then the Barnes book calls for with regular "X's",and get higher velocity with no signs of excess pressure.as far as the 243 is concerned,I know an outfitter in Wyoming that shoots elk,deer,and moose with a 75gr. hollow point with his 243,but he has the time an patience to take only broadside lung shots.Most of us who save for years for an elk hunt don't have that luxury,and must over compinsate with our choice of cartride and bullet.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay,One more time is it the arrer or the "indi'n" (as pronouned by Dustin Hoffman in "The little big man"). I can't remember.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I sort of agree with Bubba when he said that a marginal hit from a .243 bullet of less than 100 grains is less likely to be instantly or quickly fatal. Small bullets will kill - .22 calibers have killed lots of deer - but the shot has to be precise, and nobody can make a precise shot every time under real hunting conditions. A larger bullet has a larger margin of error when things don't go exactly right. Yes, shot placement is the most important factor, but until you can put every shot precisely where you intend every time under real hunting conditions, reducing the margin of error is critical. We owe it to the game we hunt to minimize errors.

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from SL wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

It's funny but years ago I used the run of the mill Remington and Federal cartridges in my .270 and got more instant drop kills on deer than I have ever gotten with any of the new high priced Premium cartridges of late. I have to say that my shot placements have been way better in recent years also. I just think the premium stuff is really not necessary for deer sized game. They are too tough and zip right through the animal without expanding a whole lot. Almost act like full-metal jackets on thin skinned game like deer. Yeah, it will surely kill the deer with a well placed shot, but it will most likely run a ways. Sometimes in areas with a lot of hunter pressure it isn't exactly a good thing to have a deer run off and then have someone else take a shot at it. You might gain a little in accuracy with the premium loads, but otherwise they really are not worth the extra cost for deer in my opinion.

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Gentlemen,speaking of the .243, how much difference is there in the size/weight of the .243 vs. .270?Is the amount of powder a big factor in the difference in performance of these two rounds? How about the difference between a 7mm/08 vs. .270?Thanks,RipperIII

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Del in KSI agree that bands on the XXX do alleviate some of the higher pressure associated with Barnes bullets but it still doesn’t cure the problem of a solid copper bullet.WA MtnhunterWhat’s your loading data you using for your 257 Weatherby Mag with Nosler partitions?

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Chuck,I had the exact same experience two years ago but at 50yds with my 06, 165gr handloads. Bullet went in chest clipped everything off as you named (you a doc?) and came to settle in left ham in hide. She took off dead as a door nail and she must have been blind at that point cause she ran square into a log, fell and flopped like a fish. Tell me a human could be that tough?

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba,as a "new shooter" I can attest to the efficacy of ear protection, I have a pair of amplified muffs with the noise canceling feature, just knowing that my ears are protected gave me the confidence to ease the trigger with out concern for muzzle blast, and even while a the range I never noticed any real recoil from my .270.RipperIII

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba,It seems to be the universal line of thought that you give a 'first timer' or a small statured person a smaller caliber. My line of thought is that these people have the least shooting and field experience so maybe a tad larger caliber,say a 7/08 over a 243, for them may be better because a less than perfect shot may be compensated by the larger bullet.Another thing that I have noticed provide immeasurable amount of help to new shooters is good ear protection. One boy just wasn't shooting well so I put a double set on him, plugs and ear muffs. His shooting really picked up.

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from Chuck wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

A number of years back, I made about a 160 yard shot at a nice doe who, when hit, lowered her head and took off like a rocket into dense cover. She ran a total of 110 yards, the last 30 into very heavy cover. As I field dressed her, I found that my .270 Federal Premium High Energy bullet had completely destoyed her heart. Both of the atria,the chambers at the top of the heart, as well as the vessels bring blood to them (Vena Cavae and the Pulmonary Vein) were shredded and unable to transport any blood to the venticles, the larger chambers that actually send blood to the rest of the body. Her chest cavity was full of blood. I did not recover the bullet. There was nothing wrong with shot placement or with the bullet. Her heart was dead when the bullet hit her, just her head didn't know it, so she ran when she felt it hit. Some times you do everything right, the shot is where it needs to be and still things don't work like you want them to. Stuff happens.

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Thanks Del,I have a friend who just moved to Kansas, I'm looking forward to heading out there for a hunt.

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

In '87 I got on a lease in Deep South Texas. There were 8 of us. Several of the men had young boys who hunted with them on occasion. This is where my bad feelings for the .243 started. Most of the boys had .243's they hunted with all generally sighted in at about 1" high at 100 yards. This was way before laser range finders were available so there was a lot more guess work envolved. Picture the scene. Dad and jr. hunting in a Tower blind, looking in several directions down S. Texas senderos (they run for miles). Out steps a Good buck and Jr. asks "Dad can I shoot Him? how far is he?" Dad guesses about 175 yards and says hold on his shoulder about 1/3 way up. Later after they come to camp and say they have been tracking a wounded deer all afternoon and they would like some help. We step off the shot and it's 350 paces and we have a leg shot buck who may never be found but we spend several hours looking unsucessfully. This happens 4 times in one season. I've had the same scenerio happen in the Texas Hill Country (smaller deer, closer shots)always with a .243 and a inexperienced hunter. I think that the .243 is a fine varmit round and a deer round only in the hands of an expert. In '87 I showed up with a 25-06 in s. Texas, shooting 120 gr. fbsp Sierra's, and the next year I stepped up to a 7mm Mag. Yes I wanted a larger hole and more blood on the ground. It seems that the ground in S. Texas is mainly cliche clay and when a drop of blood hits it, it forms a ball, no visible blood, so you blood trail by poking little balls of dirt until your finger comes up bloody. And oh yes, the brush is very thick and deer disapear very quickly.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ripper 111,Click rifles on the right side of the home page. Then scroll down to "270 vs 3006" and read. Plenty of info on 270 win. It's a good round. Millions of critters have been shot with it including many of my own. 'Tho recently I decided to do my deer hunting with a 2506. The 25 has more velocity and less recoil than the 270. Everthing I've shot with either round expired quickly when hit in the vitals.

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Gentlemen,I have been reading your posts for quite awhile as I am brand new to this sport of hunting, and need all the info I can get. I purchased a .270 (on the recommendation of Mr. Petzal) because I wanted an all-round rifle since I can't at this point afford one rifle for every animal, however I don't hear much conversation about this caliber.My only experience with this gun happened a few weeks back on my first deer hunt. I killed a buck at 130yds quartering away,shot through the right shoulder area and exited at the base of the neck on the left side with nickle sized wound. the bullet was a federal 130gr. nosler ballistic tip, the animal raised up on his hind legs and fell over backwards, rested a few seconds then did the "curly shuffle" and expired.There was plenty of blood on the ground had I need to track this buck. I had to feel around for the entry wound as there was no visible mark. When the deer was hoisted up to be dressed, a veritable river of blood rushed out of the exit wound and as the skin was removed ,a lot of blood was present causing my guide to remark that "the bullet must have broken up". I didn't get to see the organs, but I think that the bullet stayed intact and severed the jugler on the way out. I feel very confident in both my rifle and my bullet choice(even for a rookie)as they went were they were aimed and did the job at hand, but i would really like to hear some of you guys respond.Thanks,RipperIII

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

The Nosler Partitions are overrated as an elk bullet in my opinion. The front core is designed to mushroom and depart, leaving the rear core with half the weight and perhaps 20 percent of remaining energy to complete the penetration. Yeah, yeah, I know many of you have killed many deer and elk with the NP. No wonder since it has been around so long. Just like Core-Lokt's.I find that the Partition fails to provide acceptable accuracy in my Weatherby. The Nosler custom loads in .35 Whelen provide acceptable accuracy, but not as consistent as the Federal Trophy Bonded for $15 less. The Accubonds did not shoot well in the Weatherby either. The Barnes TSX is a different story. Sub-MOA with Federal loads and devastating performance on game. They perform so well in my Weatherby that I'm not messing around with handloads for it any more, except for field practice loads.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

The .243 Winchester is, without a doubt, a hunting rifle/round. It has killed "lotsa" deer sized game and will continue on. As I've stated before in these blogs, the "problem" is, -and folks, I'm not trying to be ugly or mean!- most guys buy them for a kid's or wife's "first" rifle. That's not the "problem".They take the "family member" to the range, discover the recoil is still a bit much until they shoot a bullet of less than 100 grains.Here is where the problem lies.A .244 caliber bullet of less than 100 grains means a marginal hit is less likely to be immediately/quickly fatal; ergo: lost animal!A bullet that light needs precise placement to work reliably, "that's" what I'm saying!Bubba

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bullet placement is always the key. You can shoot an animal with pretty much any projectile traveling at even moderate to low velocity and kill it grave yard dead if you disrupt the nervous system or pumping station. Years back when I was in college doing research, we collected whitail specimens for hemoragic disease studies by head shooting them with a .22 magnum. If the range was less than 30 yards we would use a .22 long rifle with a CCI Mini Mag 40 grain solid point. Place either round at the base of the ear and it is lights out! The reason for using either round was to lessen tissue damage. We also wanted to prevent pass through shots because we collected most of the deer from urban areas where they were over populated.Everybody has their favorite bullet. Mine is now the Nosler Accubond. Good tissue damage, good exit wound. Have not needed the exit wound to blood trail so far!

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from LowRecoil wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Count me among the proponents of the .243. I think Paul Brinkley said it well: "Anyone who says a .243 is marginal on deer has never spent time hunting with one, or isnt a competent marksman."I have either killed or witnessed the killing of roughly 50 whitetails with a .243. Two- count 'em- ran after the shot. The rest fell where they were standing. The two that ran were poorly hit, with the shooter at fault. Those two deer would have run no matter the caliber.This is the part where I expect the big-bore boys to really go ballistic. (Ballistic. I kill me.) The bullets that are dropping these deer in their tracks are 75 grain (yes, 75) Hornadys. All the expert opinions that I'm using undersized bullets won't convince me. I know from experience that these bullets group phenomonally from my M700, and that they are Death Itsownself on whitetails.As a note, the deer I've seen killed have not been spectacularly large: small does up to a few bucks in the 200-pound range. If you tell me that the .243 is fine for the small ones but woefully undersized for the 300-pound bruisers of, say, Saskatchewan, I won't argue with you. I've never seen the results of a small bullet on deer that large.Additionally: I am NOT suggesting that Congress should outlaw everything but 75-grain .243 bullets for deer. The larger-caliber rounds have proven their worth innumerable times. In fact, I have killed several deer with a .30-06, and I frequently carry a 6.5x55 M700 that I am in love with beyond all reason. I am merely defending the poor little .243 from all the big-bore bullies who want to call it too small.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay , I still have a handfull of the Rem. Silver tips in .308 that I loaded. I like them. I usually load Serria bullets in my .308 and 7.x57. I just last night loaded a hand full of .204 Ruger's to try using the 39gr. BlitzKing's and BLC-2 powder. I really haven't shot this .204 much, just zeroed but when the weather gets better will try them out.

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from retired waycar rider wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

hummmmmmmmm--- after 41 mule deer--the 105-- speer in 243 has been great for my wifes Remington model 600--range up to 200 yards and never went over 5 yards after being hit---no meat damage either---can't get any better than that-- H4831 and federal match primers--- works great here in the northern high plains

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from crm3006 wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

What is the .243 for?

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from Paul Brinkley wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Premium bullets have leveled the caliber playing field for sure. But for deer I think a plain old silvertip or powerpoint is better. Anyone who says a .243 is marginal on deer has never spent time hunting with one, or isnt a competent marksman. Elk, maybe not, deer and smaller are DRT. A 30'06 and a .243 are the only 2 rifles a man will ever need, unless a brown bear or high volume prarie dog town is on the agenda.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

i have three rules of shooting-placement, placement, placement. i've killed bear, elk, deer (both mulie and whitetail) and antelope with 150 gr remington coreloct and never had an animal go more than twenty yards. i have also shot lots of antelope and mule deer with a .243 using 100 gr federal loads and they fall where they were standing. i once saw an antelope hit with a 7mm mag run 100 yards, go under a fence and expire on the other side. she had a exit hole bigger than my fist, but the shot was back a bit and missed the lungs. i even taken an antelope with a 55 gr .22-250 and that one ran about thirty yards before dropping. its where you hit them that counts.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Just for the record: Last year was my first experience with the Swift A-frame. I shot a buck at about 25 yds and after I pulled the trigger I realized there were some dry Manzanita brush (twigs) between him and me. The 150 gn .270WSM A-frame load bulldozed through the twigs and went on through the buck killing it instantly. Upon examining the deer, the entrance hole was about 3/4 inch and the exit about 2 inches. A double lunger that made jelly of the heart also. I thought: This has to be one heck of a tough bullet to be this reliable. Obviously the bullet had started expanding a little before it hit the animal. There was no excessive tissue damage to the shoulder area, just a minimal amount. Later on I killed a nice clean (odorless) 240 lb Black Bear at 200 yards with the same load, another heart/lungshot. The same result, a minimal amount of meat loss. Neither animal went 10 ft after being hit. Just for the record.....Looks like the A-frame could be considered extremely reliable. Just make sure you don't miss the vitals.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay: Your statement validates my theory based upon my readingsDel: Your findings will no doubt be informative.Thanks guys

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

John R,True the neck shot will really put them down but if you miss the spine a little high the deer will get away everytime with a nasty flesh wound. I hit a trophy Alaskan Black tail there with a 350 Rem magnum(He was dead on his feet running after the first shot went thru the liver). It made a huge open wound on that buck's neck. He ran until a 3rd shot dropped him.Another gent of my aquaintance had a "dead" neckshot Whitetail buck get up and run away (never found) while he was getting his camera out.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

BA,A few years ago I shot a 7 pointer broadside at 20 yds with a Win Mdl 70 fwt in 270 Win. The Nosler 140 gr BTwent between 2 ribs and put a pencil sized hole thru both lungs and exited with a small hole. The deer reacted by bounding underneath my tree stand and stopped at a nearby cattle fence to look for danger. My second shot from above and slightly behind broke his neck. Up 'til then I had good results with that bullet. After that switched to partitions with never a problem. I plan to shoot the Barnes XXX next year because it is more accurate in my 2506 and has a higher BC. I guess there are no perfect bullets and the plethora of variables such as caliber, velocity, bullet weight, rifling twist, size of animal, etc further compounds the matter. It is also my contention that it matters if the bullet hits flesh or bone on the way into the critters body.Clay and Ishawooa,The bands on the XXX are supposed to aleviate the higher pressure issues with Barnes bullets. I am working on loads for the 100 grainer in 2506. So far only one trip to the range and it was too dang cold to fool with the Ohler. Did get good accuracy in the wind no less. Since then made up loads using 4 different powders and 2 brands of brass. Waiting for good weather for next trip to the range. Will report when I have some results.

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from John R wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ethically speaking Bubba is correct. I wouldn't personally recommend a .223 as a deer caliber even though a lot of people here use a .223 or a 22-250. I preferred the '06 for most of my adult life but the last couple of years have switched to its kissin cousin, the .308.My hunting buddy however has used his .243 for most of his adult life and wound up giving it to his daughter (she shot her first deer with it). He bought himself another one and uses it mostly. We have never lost deer because we only take neck shots. It makes you shoot more precisely. The deer usually drop on the spot, and I have found that if we do happen to miss, it's usually a clean miss. We don't worry about wounded deer running off to die.It has been said many times before, shoot the rifle you can comfortably shoot the best with and as Bubba said above pay close attention to shot placement.Another good thing about neck shots is one doesn't destroy the shoulders.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Del in KS,To say the least this buck acted like he thought he was hid or something because he didn't even flinch until about the 3rd or 4th shot. That's why my brother kept shooting it. He thought he was missing the deer. It was like the deer didn't even feel it. Then after 3 or 4 shots he took off for parts unknown. I had the same thing happen to me about 10 years before that. I had a new friend with me and I was shooting a new Model 70 featherweight .270 Win. This was about 1960. I spotted a buck standing in the shade about 75 yds away. I dropped to the sitting position and let one fly. To our amazement the deer never even flinched. I shot again, and again, and finally before I could shoot the next shot his knees buckled and down he went. My friend said "remind me never to buy one of those 270's, I thought you said they were good?" I had no answer. But there were three nice holes in the deer about an inch apart. You tell me why this critter didn't go down or run. It's another unexplainable reaction of wild game I guess. It appeared perfectly healthy. Believe me, the gun was good. I killed lots of bucks in those days. That gun was a real sweetie as long as I wasn't shooting at a paper target. I didn't pay that much attention to the details of bullet performance in those days. The bullets sometimes would blow up before getting to the animal if you hit a twig or some grass or whatever, or they would blow a large exit hole in them sometimes. It was somewhat erratic. Other times the performance was good. I was younger and less experienced in the realm of bullet construction. When I saw an antelope blown in half by a 7mm Mag and only a thin piece of hide holding the two parts together I knew then that I had to look for a reliable bullet. Last year I shot the Hornady Interbond and Swift A-frame and experienced wonderful results in 270WSM. This year it will be Barnes TSX in the same caliber. Thanks for your input Del.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

CUP PSI what ever!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

IshawooaThe harder the bullet, the higher the CUP will be!

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I don't have a strain gauge and do like the performance of Barnes bullets. However given the same powder charge, case, primer, and rifle it appears to me that the signs of higher (not excessive) pressure are more evident with a Barnes XXX than more conventionally constructed bullets. I have a theory about this but cannot substanciate it. Has anyone else ever noticed this phenomenon or is it just myobservation and/or imagination?

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

BA,Did that buck just stand there and let the guy shoot him 5 times?I've never seen a deer shot once that did not either drop or run at the shot.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave and the gang.To date six deer have been shot with my 6mmX284 Win using Nosler 85 gr partitions at 3500 fps from 30 out to 240 yds. Only one bullet stopped in the deer and it penetrated from the chest to the hip bone after demolishing the heart and lungs. My gun had a 1 in 12" twist 26" Shilen barrel and would not stabilize a heavier bullet. Most 6's and 243's, are 1 in 10" or less. I read someplace that the resulting higher RPM's of a faster twist barrel can cause a bullet to react more violently. Could that account for guys having different experiences with same bullet?BTW that was a max. load and it was chonographed on my Ohler mod 35. Never should have let Ray Smith (the builder) talk me into the 1 in 12" barrel.Sold the gun last fall to raise $ for the Kimber 2506 that I dearly love.

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from Trae B. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave next time you go moose hunting invite me.If I had money you wouldent believe how much i'd pay to go moose hunting.I dont even want to kill one I just want to get one in my cross-hairs then i'd be happy.

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from tay wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Winchester XP3's have never let me down but I've never killed anything bigger than whitetail deer.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dr. RalphYou got to be kidding, right?Federal 30-06 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips are absolutely the best medicine on whitetail under 100 yards? C’mon Doc, that bullet is just getting started! Why do I have so many excellent results out of a Hornady 130 grain soft point out of my 30-06 from Jackrabbits to mule deer as far out as 600 yards

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Remington Bronze point, the original ballistic tip!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim in Mo.In Oklahomo, any .22 centerfire is acceptable. Ergo; my .22 Hornet is legal! I have killed a deer with it! Bullet performance was exceptional. He stopped at about 35 yards and looked away from me. I slipped that 45 gr Sierra FBSP behind his left ear. He never even wiggled. I did not recover the bullet, but the experience expounded to me the importance of bullet "placement"! I DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT suggest the .22 Hornet for a body shot! As far as that goes, IMHO, if you're going to shoot a .244 caliber, shoot at least a 100 grain bullet. I would suggest this as the bottom limit for "deer" caliber!I know, I know, lots of folks out there hunt with the .223 and the .22-250 and the like. I still think the .244 and a 100 grain bullet is the bottom end!Bubba

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Federal 30-06 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips are absolutely the best medicine on whitetail under 100 yards... they all work if you hit them right, but I used the cheapest Winchester soft points (power points?) forever and finally lost one deer I hit twice. It was a buck so I got mad and broke up with them. Partitions never knocked a deer down in it's tracks for me and the Remington core-lokts have had spotty accuracy in my guns at best. Hornady SST's have dropped every deer I've hit with them within ten yards but I still prefer Ballistic Tips. I'm too old to crawl around on my knees up a hollow looking for blood.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Gary, John R.,In my home state of Mo. the conservation dept. people at one time in the 80's had a discussion about putting a minimum caliber on hunting whitetail. They never could agree so it remains any centerfire cartridge.Not making any assumptions here good or bad. Any ideas?

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from John R wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Sometimes the manufacturers make a great bullet and discontinue it. Winchester made a great 64 grain, .223 bullet called the Power Point Plus. It is or was rated CXP2 (for deer) on the box and it works. I shot a large Whitetail buck with my AR-15 that was chasing 3 does and stopped when I grunted at him. He was only 30 yards away. I shot him in the neck and because of the angle the bullet traveled through the neck and stopped just under the hide on his armpit. I have the bullet. It retained 75% of its weight (45 gr.). Oh yeah, the deer dropped in his tracks with no thrashing. I wouldn't shoot deer 150 yards away with the .223, but shot placement plus a good bullet makes a big difference. It is legal to use the .223 in my state also.

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from Gary wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I once helped field dress a deer that had been shot with a 60 grain Nosler Partition fired from a 223. It was a perfect heart shot, and the bullet liquified all the vital organs.Before anyone ask, this took place in a state that allows the use of the .22 caliber bullets.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Just had to play the washing machine part, huh, KJ?Bubba

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Well, BA, I'd have to say a large, big-boned coyote. I'm of the opinion that a deer is too big for a .243, even one loaded with NPs. Now - that'll get the howls flying.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Most of my shooting for hunting has been accomplished utilizing .17 to .338 employing the majority of the brands and types of bullets that Dave mentioned. I previously recounted that I have also had very good success on long range shots with Berger VLD bullets. To assist in gaining the high BC these projectiles are physically long and may cause seating problems with magazine rifles so one needs to do a little measuring prior to loading up a bunch. Spectacular one shot kills are the norm. If I had to select only one bullet it would be the Scirocco just because I have repeatedly had or have seen very predictable results. This in no way faults the Partition which is as good now as it was decades ago when we thought it was absolutely the best. On the other hand my unscientific and totally unverified assessment of which bullet is used by most guys and gals to kill the majority of big game in Wyoming and Montana each year is just like I have said before...whatever is on sale at Walmart.I can't speak for African large game but I do know lots about shooting stumps, rocks, hay bales, washing machines, old cars, and stacks of books with the larger calibers. Due to a percieved general lack of interest I will not go into details about the results of these shots.

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from JasonB wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have shot three deer with the Remington 165 grain Core-Lokt in .30-06. All three dropped in their tracks. They suit me just fine.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

The only deer I ever killed with a Nosler partition had a .277 entry wound and a .277 exit wound. The shot,(braggingly) was perfectly placed, BUT the deer didn't go down and ran directly AT me. When I reloaded and raised my rifle, he saw me and turned at about 5 yards. The next round was a Texas heart shot, through the pelvis that flipped him over, spun him around and slammed him down on the ground. The second round? Entry, .277, exit .277! It was a 160gr Nosler Partition I had loaded for mulies in Colorado.I now shoot, without exception, Sierra 130gr BTSP in my .270 and have yet to have one fail when I do my part and put it (the bullet) where it's 'post ta be!It's still marksmanship guys. The best bullet, misplaced, means a trail job!Bubba

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

KJ....Just what kind of a large, big boned animal is a .243 cal (6mm)95 gn Partition designed to kill? If I considered a bullet marginal on a deer, I surely wouldn't try it on anything larger.In those days, the 70's, we had trouble with 130 gn Sierras blowing up on a blade of grass. We wanted a reliable bullet. We hadn't discovered Hornadys for some reason. After giving up on Partitions, we discovered the Speer Hot Cores and the wonderful Grand Slam and never looked back. Since then I've had pretty good luck other Nosler designs like the Solid Base Boattail, and the Accubond. And of course Dave named a myriad of others. Thanks for the input.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

That should read "180 gr. Remington Core-Loct .30-06 bullet." I don't want to create the impression that I threw my rifle at her from 80 paces and achieved near complete penetration.That would be a good trick, though.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

From Beekeeper:"Problems usually arise when we ask a bullet to do something we shouldn't."I agree, and would add to that it only makes sense to match the bullet with the prey. Premium bullets are constructed for tough-skinned and big-boned game animals. They'll work on deer, but that isn't what they are made for. And bullet failure happens sometimes. I shot a big doe one year at 80 paces. She was quartered away and the 180 gr. Remington Core-Loct .30-06 entered her right side just behind the rib cage and lodged under the skin on her left side, right behind the shoulder. She dropped on the spot, but there was no exit. I expected complete penetration. Still, she was very dead.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have been a big fan of Nosler Bullets for over 25 years. I have shot game at distances ranging from just off the end of the barrel to 300 yards with Partitions, Ballistic Tips, and the old Solid Base. I have learned a bit about thier stregths and limitations. With the exception of the early Ballistic Tips which were a bit on the fragile side (since corrected) they all perform as suggested. Problems usually arise when we ask a bullet to do something we shouldn't.The extreme cases of bullet failure I have seen have been on animals at close range (less than 50 yards). When we drive bullets at high velocity and they strike semisolids (Animals) they tend to do the things we hope they won't.I once shot a feral hog of about 250 pounds in the pump works with a 165 grain Ballistic Tip launched from an '06 at 2750 fps. The hog was 15 yards. The bullet exploded, but the hog died in its tracks. A week later I put the same load into another similar sized hog at 120 yards and the pass through killed a another hog standing 5 yards behind it.I shot an average sized whitetail through the shoulders at 20 yards with a 100 grain Barnes X spat from a 25/06. Impact velocity was over 3100 fps. The petals sheared off under the hide on the entrance side while the shank plowed through leaving a pencil sized exit wound. The deer died within sight.The most miserable job of tracking I ever had came about one rainy eve when my Dad put a 150 grain Partition from a .308 through an average buck at 10 paces. The buck made it 100 yards through greenbrier and heavy brush before expiring. The bullet did what John Nosler designed it to do. The front core blew up and the rear core pushed through. The bucks chest looked like a bomb had gone off inside, leaving only a pencil sized exit wound. Not a bad bullet, just a bad situation!Don't expect a 95 grain lead cored bullet at 3000 plus to stay together when it wacks an animal on the far end of a basketball court...Five rounds through the chest at 150 yards... that's a tough deer even with solids...!Nosler keep building them and I will keep shooting them.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave,As a veteran I resent the implication of this column. I will always call a spade a spade. In the 70's I was looking for a bullet that at high velocity wouldn't blow up on a deers hide and make a big mess of it. Jim Carmichael touted the Nosler Partition to such an extent as being the holy grail of bullets, so I tried some 95 gn partitions in 6mm Rem. They grouped nicely. When I shot my first buck with them at 30 yards, with nothing but thin air between it and me, the bullet's front core blew up on the hide and the rear core bounced around inside the deer and ended up under the skin on the same side I shot him on. Well it killed the deer alright, but upon inspection I looked for the exit hole. There was none. I want a bullet to go straight through, not become unstable and go awry. My brother shot a large buck through the rib cage 5 times at about 150 yds with 165 gn 30-06 partitions. We found the buck about 500 yards away from where it was shot. No expansion was evident. Everyone was laughing and asked him when he was going to buy a real rifle. If this isn't bullet failure I guess I don't know what bullet failure is. I hope the partition lovers of this column can accept my criticism of the partition as one mans opinion. To me the proof is in the pudding. I come from a long line of hunter/reloaders. That's why I always test bullets and loads on game, before establishing an opinion. You can talk bad about the bullets I love but don't you dare spit on my FLAG.

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from B. Cameron wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I'm sure they're fabulous bullets. Amazing loads. Incredible cartridges overall.However, I can't justify a box of .270Win Winchester XP3 at $41.99 (Cabela's online) when I can get a box of .270Win Remington CoreLokt for $15.99 at my local gun shop.Maybe I'm missing something here... but if I'm doing my part (i.e., shooting within my limits and placing it well), isn't it just throwing dollar bills down the barrel?

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from Jason N. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I shot my last two elk with 150 gr. Sciroccos from my 7mm. First one passed through leaving a first sized exit wound(shot in back of neck at close to 100 yards). Second went through two rib bones and nicked backbone and recovered under hide on off shoulder at 75 yards. Probably 80 percent of bullet left as squished mushroom. Elk only went ten steps after hit. Have not had a chance to try on deer yet.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Bullets are like Auto's to each his own. I use Rem Core-lokts for 45years and no problems. I decided to go to the Rockies in 93 ad started pratcing at 200 yds with a 742 in 30-06. THe Cre-lkts did ok, but did not pattern as I wanted. Then Remington made the l65 gr.Extended range which I bough up a supply and man did they work well. I shot my Elk at l65 yds, and bullet went thru to far side just under the hide. Then Rem stopped making the extended and I switched to the Scirocco'sin l80. Last year I shot a 4 x 4 deer at 345 yds and the bullet went completely thru,took out all his vitals. Athome I shot a 4 x 3 at 270 yds and bullet went completely thru both front legs and vitals. This bullet is by far the better bullet I;ve used. Makes a good long range shot look easy, by being a boattail, it flies flat and long.When hunting the Rockies I use teh l80's as I;m hunting both Mulies and Elk, here at home use the l50 grs.But, I bet more game is killed annually with Core-lokts that all the othe bullets combined,other than the re-loaders.Never shot but one reload, my first and last. I kinda figure if I'm gonna spend the $$$ to go west, I can afford the best Ammo available, or I should stay at home. I will use a cheaper bullet to pratice with as at near 40.00 a box, pratice gets kinda high dollar. Wish they (REM) made the 25-06 in the Scirocco's in a l30 gr bullet. Any you guys bought and shot the new KL7 by Marlin yet? if so what do you think of this new firearm? I;ve never owned a 270, but looking at one of the Marlins for W-tails here at home and Lopes in WY next year. The 25-06 works well on Lopes, just think a l30-l40 gr bullet boattail would be better, as some very long shots out there. The distance will fool you, so by all means get a rangefinder before you go. Hopefully can get a nice Mulie/Elk in MT or C0 this fall. At 73 yrs old and disabled, few long trips left in this worn out body. Since my disabilities in l990-91, had it not been for hunting (hunting from a vehicle or chair)and fooling with guns, I think would have gone more crazy. Good hunting guys,shoot often and straight.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Clay,..wasnt looking for sympathy ,.. but no one turns away from a prayer ,.. thank you.Have come to terms with it by the way so no sympathy required,..Really meant to say,..Its good to hear of a father son relationship that was ,.. well ,... good. many are notIn summer as you say click on a anothet year,..57 nowbut feel good and still in for the fight (not you and me) the one you look for every morning once the cofee kicks in.When I stop looking for that fight ,.. pretty soon will be taking the long nap.From what I can gather your in the west (Arizona maybe ) never hunted threre,. so if you say 125 - 150 yds Im good with that.AS stated earlier have hunted around quite a bit but latley (mostly) in WI.Central Wisconsin is mostly aan ancient lake bedThere are huge ,tammarac filled Bog type marshes,..They can be 3/4 of mile long and half as wide ,an so hellish thick you could walk past 100 deer ina day and not see em. It nearly inpossible to hunt that stuff unless you just find a tree big enough to hold you,.. get in it and stay there.There are clearings and there are fire cuts ,. pine plantations,.. not to mention farm fleldsSo if your looking for the 300 -400 yd shot you most certainly can find it.But there is also a lot of woods from oak savanas in the south to jack pine and scrub oak in the north,..and far north of course the big pine country. Geting toward Yooper counttryNot far from where John D. and Hlelen H Suquatch live YUK YUK.There is a an area in the northern part also known as the Barrens,.. that looks for all the world like tundra or scottish moore.or rough prarie.Door county ( the thumb sticking out into lake Michigan) looks one hell of a lot like Norway. Which is liklley why a lot Norvagans settled there .Not much hnting ther now .,.. mostly a resort area.So terraine is diverseBut to answer your question directly ,..My guess would be (all things considered) the avergae kill shot on a deer is less than 75 yds.I think quite a few get wounded buy guys who think they can shoot and cant ,.. at 75 and out.More get wouded by weekend wariors who shoot a bounding deer and ,the ones who maybe shouldnt shoot at anything uless its tied to a tree,.but that just my opinion.Longest (deer) shot i ever made was close to 300 ,. would not shoot that far now ,..especilly wih open sights ,..which was what it was then. But again te vison.The dam thing walked ten feet out of the woods and stood there ,.. and sood there. and stood there.Finally I thought,.. well pretty sure i got the distace doped ,..so got up against a tree with a branch from different tree as a rest. Held where I thought was rght ,..and let one go from my 8 x 57Thought I heard the bullet thump.but no reaction.Deer looked around ,. turned back toward the woods he came from,.. took a couple steps and folded up.Shot was behind the leg a litte high.150gr Hornady over 50 grains 4064 imr,.. did a nice job.Still had enough juice to mess up te lungs pretty good and it was a through shot.Yooper ,. dont blame you,.. Buddy,. had it done,.. they put a lenz in your eye,.He says it alot better but he still needs reading glasses ,.. I just dont knowI call him ole iron eye now,.. yuk yuk cause if you catch it just right in just the right light the lenz reflects makes him look like his eyeball is steel.,. I am blessed as to vison I know and I dont take it for granted,..Clasic example is when goose hunting ,.. frequently see em coming as much as a minute before other hunters,..I say 5 coming in 1 oclock ,.they don't pick em up before Im reading the mail in their pockets YUK YUK or Ill say 3ird from right has feathers missing on rght wing ,.. they just dont believe me ,.. until there close eough to throw rocks at,..and then when they do see what I see ,.. they just shake thier heads,..Yes am lucky that way,..have a good week guys ,.. im out til next week.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Yohan:Ooh, I'm jealous. Started with glasses in 5th grade. Eyes got worse every exam. 58 years old, bi-focals, buying my first riflescope. I remember hunting, rain coming down, seeing deer, knowing there are horns but I couldn't see. If I hadn't heard acouple of horror stories about the surgery, I'd get that done. Unfortunately, these are the only eyes I've got so I'm reluctant to try it.YooperJackP.S. Are you in WI? What part?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

YohanNow 52 and in May I’ll click another year on, I find now looking back thru my life, there are those that when I pray, I’ll be including those in my prayer both you and your father. Life for each is a finger print, isn’t that right Doc and Mark1 and Yes you to Mr. Petzal! That what makes us Shooting Sportsmen so unique. Go to a ball game and every one sings the same song and rants the same and bore each other in an hour and the fight is on! Yet those like you and I and the rest here can be on an extended hunt someplace together for the first time and act as if we are all old friends, just haven’t met yet and the friendship will be at its best. I remember a previous post of a group of men getting together and neither of them had anything in common and how they enjoyed each other company. O'Brother, I can imagine the stories and jokes these guys would tell!YohanYou and your Father will be in my prayers this Sunday at Church!One more thing , what’s the average maximum shot distance? I would say 125 to 150 myelf!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Rocky Mtn HunterNext time you are in the wilds of Montana and need an ammo fix, try The Fort in Big Timber. Guns, groceries, gas, ammo, deli - you name it. Just off I-90 east side of Big Twig. If they don't have your ammo, you probably don't have a proper rifle!Grand Hotel "downtown" has fine food and cold malt beverages to boot.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

ClayRunning up and down mountains with your father would keep you in shape and I understand Also (dont denie) your physical conditioning from it.Speedy somb1tch was attempt at humorAs your father,..My condolences (truly) lost mine 19995 suddenly.Did not have the relationship with mine that you did.Mine was a heavy handed man ( brilliant and tortured) Im told by some,. but uneduacted( immigrent) with a temper.Hard to say but true,.the man beat me until I got big enough to make him stop.But some how even through that as men,.. we came to an understanding ,.. it was not a closeness like you had with yours but a kind of mutual respect.Probabaly all one could hope for give the situationOnce he realized I could & would beat him senseless if he touiched me or other family memebers again fear had to enetr the picture. which bread anger.He was 6"2' and about 240 when I looked him in the eye and explained I was gonna beat him to within an inch of his life in the next few minuets if he didnt stop the physical abuse to family memebers.Was just shy of 19I knew full well I could do it (was a pretty tough kid) and so did he.Will never forget if I live 500 years ,. could see it in hus eyes,. first it was im gonna kick this kids a$$ I ready ,.. then it was as if alight went out.That made it necessary for him to be another person, and it changed me foreever.A change by the way i sincerly which I did not have to make.As I no longer had a father figure .. but then again as I have turned it over a million timsin my mind since,..I never did to any real exstent.Still once the dust setteled from that,. we did deer hunt together ,. but always with buffering people involved.In his defenceHe was just used up,. one of the lucky contestants that made it thorough,. not only the Battle of Bulge the Hurtgen (sp?) Forest,. the cluster F^^K of a battle of Bastone and other attnding skerbmishes in WW11 .He was also one the first few troops through the gates of Dachow.It is no wonder he was a little f^^ked up.I know all this by the way as muy God Father ( uncle) who retired a Brigadier Gen. tolds me later in the attempt to help with some closure.Took him until I was 30,.years old not to just get Pissed at the soud of a Germannames.But he finally seperated Germans from Nazies ( in his mind) and after that awakening,.. life was easier for him and local citizens of German descent.YUK YUKSuch is the price of freedom.I am then to some extent envious of you and your fathers relationship.I believe you were 165 of pi$$ and other liquids YUK YUK and that teams wanted you.But solder ,. if you picked up 100 do the family a favor and try backing it off a tad.Im sure thy want you around for a while.Not to mention you wanna see and help with as mcuh of thier lives as you can.As to the shootingNot that Im such a great long range shot. I am however a very good (quick) shot at realively close range. (75 ys and under)Its my eyes,.. ( vison)Was tested and confirmed with20-10 vision in my late teens,.. They actually thought it was better but didnt have a test to confirm. Accordingly I was invited to attend sniper school which I declined.Last summer (2007) eyes tested 20-10 at ten feet passed what ever standard eye test distance is.Doc was amazed,..said my eyes better than most pilots half my age that fly heavies and fighters.But need #1 reading glasses ( 1st 25 inches,..Just not as good as it once was)I shoot those groups at the bench or sitting ,.. but if sitting,.. only if Im real comfortable.My bigest conccern is trigger,.. Think most peole would do a LOT better,.. off hand,.. off the bench or where ever,.. if trigger is good for them. I even had triggers on my levers worked on ,.. waaaaay better accuracy.it allows more control.Guy I deal with occcasionally former Arrow Space Engineer,.59 ys old ,.. still has 20-15 vision and DOSENT NEED reading glasses yet.Lastly guns / bullets to me are tools,Used in order to engage in an activity which I callHunting,..Carpenters use toolsI know quite a few carpenters and I dont know one who would use a finish hammer to spike wall sections to a floor.Truth is they all use air nailers but you dont see pin nailers used for frameing.Same with guns / cartridgesAppropriate mass / weight ,..sectional density at speeds sppropriate for bullet conmstruction /weoght creating a minimum of 1000 foot pounds ( for deer sized game) which to me is ususally between 2400fps and 3000fps at muzzle with properly constructed projectiles is a minimum standard.With which to embark on the taking of an anmals life in what I consider ethical and sportsman like nmannor.Which translates to use a bullet heavy enough to kill the dam thing. As to the debate about pass though or not. I want an entry wound and significant would channel and an exit whole twice the size of entry.And then as Raph and other have said ,.. location location location.Have a great day

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Dave,Since you've never given me an answer to anything else I don't really expect one this time but.One of my pet peeves. We see all the TV shows and read all the stories and every time the writer gets a huge buck with whatever he is selling(bow, blind, gun, etc). And with a camera man along no less. It is my strong suspition that most of these deer are raised and hunted in a pasture with a high fence around it. They may even be tame deer. Heck, there's an Amish farmer near La Plata MO with a pen full of huge tame bucks. So tell me how far from the truth is this assertion? Anyone else care to weigh in?

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Chill Clay C.!I understand what composite, hollow point and spire point do to living matter! I killed a deer with a 90 gr HP built by Sierra. No exit wound! Blood shot out the waa-zoo! Swore I'd never do that again. Have been shooting 130 gr Sierra BTSP ever since. I have yet to collect a spent bullet, every shot has been a pass through! Not near the tissue damage of the hollow point with a soft point bullet!I don't believe that a projectile "must" expend "all" it's energy within the target. I agree with KJ, a few footpounds of energy dumped on a backstop is okay!Bubba

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

I'm still on the location, location, location philosophy. Hit them up close in the right spot and a .22 will kill just about anything. Too much speed will cause bullet failure also. My brother in law hand loaded .22-250's for a Ruger No.1 "really really hot" one time and we absolutely could not even hit a 4X8 sheet of plywood at 50 yards... he swears the bullets were disintegrating in mid air? I saw a 25-06 bullet explode on the shoulder bone of a deer once and go no further, but the deer died instantly so who knows what that was all about. Hydrostatic shock? No visible damage to the heart lung area, the bullet just exploded on the shoulder and had a softball sized entry wound.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Bubba, I'm with you. I don't think a few foot-pounds of energy dumped onto the hillside behind the animal is much of a waste, and sometimes they will run. I like a good blood trail. Interestingly enough, of all the deer I've shot (a few dozen) I've had exactly one instance where the bullet didn't completely penetrate and exit, and that was a 180 grain Remington Core-Loct .30-06 I shot at a doe standing quartering away at 80 yards. I was surprised, to say the least. Fortunately, she dropped on the spot. Tracking her would have been a nightmare.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

BubbaHave you seen the difference of meat damage of a composite bullet compared to a hollow point bullet on a full size roast? The hollow point doesn’t do too much damage and passes clean thru still making some damage. The composite bullet destroys the roast like a bomb and doesn’t exit. WOW!So you Personally, don't buy it?Think again!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

KJLet me take a shot.Optimum bullet performance for some is that the bullet expend "all" it's energy "within" the target! Ergo: maximum energy transfer, maximum damage, maximum kill!Personally, I don't buy it! But, different strokes for different folks!Bubba

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from KJ wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Sarg, I'm interested to learn why you don't want the bullet to exit. It would seem to me that, in the event the animal runs, you would want an exit wound and blood trail. I know that in the places I get to hunt, where the brush is thick, a blood trail is essential to finding an animal that runs even 50 yards, especially in low-light situations.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

BA, Post :March 10, I agreen with your thinking, If the .243 is marginal on deer(I agree), why use on an Elk or Black bear? One should always match bullet and calibre to the game, I don't belive in exiting bullets, I as do the older people, the bullet should stay inside.. I've had 150 gr.Rem. core lock stay inside, I've had them exit., I like to dig the bullet out,examine it, and make my decision on performance then....

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

YohanInstead of saying, that was back in 1974 in High School, I implied that was when I weighed in at 165 pounds of pure piss and vinegar running up and down mountain sides in Arizona practically every weekend hunting! Both the Football and Track & Field Coach wanted me on the team. Every time I would go out, they would say, either come out for practice or go with your Father! I chose to go out with my Father every time because he was an awesome Father that enjoyed taking me places and showing me how to do things that I loved to do and just to be with him. I’m glad I did that, September of 2006, I kidnapped both him and mom due to his deteriorating health and moved them in with Mary and I. Dad passed away last September of lung cancer and other crippling ailments due to the exposure to highly toxic chemicals and radiation from the Titan II ICBM Missile. When I go into the woods, I glance over and he is no longer there. Today, Alex my Grandson occupies that seat with his big blue eyes and smile ear to ear just I did when I was his age. Alex doesn’t have the heavy built that I had then and that 20 gauge Mossberg 500 is a little to much gun for him, so I’m going to replace the recoil pad and add some weight in the but of the gun.By the way, those groups at 200 yards of 2.5 -3 inches, is that off the bench or sitting position? Sitting position? I’ll believe that! and if so, why are you not out shooting High Power Competition. That group falls into the Master Class Yohan!I know you are capable of doing it BROTHER!!

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Yohan,I've read that California and Barret do not get along well since Ca. has banned the 50 cal. So Mr. Barret created the 416. Probably did it just to piss them off but I hear its a fine piece.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Ya Clay ,.. have heard of 416 Barrett,..but for the life of me I cannot tell you where from.This of course would be second hand but,.. if not mistaken that or someting similar is the piece snipers are using in Afganastan to reach out and scracth the bad guys ears.Also 50 of course,.. but heard from someone ( damn) can't think who ,.. they are getting them so far a way./Other than reading terain secondary strike (bullet goes through bad guy hits earth rock etc),.. they (bad guys) cant tell where its comming from.Anyway will check in on next subject100 lbs clay?UFFFFDAHH !!You musta been one speedy sumbitch !! YUK YUK

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

YohanYou know that if I didn’t pick on you, you probably think I was mad at you! 2 months ago my Grandson Alex told his Teacher that I ran 4 miles in 24 minutes. The teacher looked at me and I immediately replied, yes I did and that Sir was 100 pounds ago. I thought the teacher was going to die laughing, looked at me and said, we are getting old and what kids will do to us my friend!By the way, Barret came out with a cartridge that is smaller in diameter and smaller case, but on lighter armor that the 50 BMG can take this rifle outshoots it at 2500 yards. It’s called the .416 Barrett! 400 grain bullet smoking out about 3300 fps!

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from KJ wrote 6 years 5 weeks ago

Well said, Yohan.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Truly clay I was wondering what it would take to get you to rise to the bate YUK YUKIts a never ending story,.. this debate about guns and cartridges,.. and I like to read what you and others have to say ,.But the debate is about hudredths or thousanths of an inch,Nowwoth the advent of fancy shmancy( better) bullets. It has as someone mentioned blurred to a great degree the caliber debate.As a better "bullettoes" will whack a bigger animal easier from smaller cannon.Simple as that.So it comes down to emotion and or experiance and or maybe some engineering backgound.(me)_Or all three,.. Gun, cartriges ballistics ( terminal primarily) like women ,.. most of em similar unless ugly ,.. its just what you like and or what your used to.As to marksmanship.I doubt tommorrow I could out shoot you,. in most venues.But i also doubt i shoot as much as you do.I probbaly pop off ( maybe) 1500 ronds per year in the deer size calbers,( at targets) ..and that amount with a 22,.. many hundreds of shots with a 65lb recurve bow with wooden arrows that I make,.. and 2-3 hundred shot shells depending on the year.I can howevr say with realtive certainty that I will keep most of my shots with handloaded 8 x 57 a 6.5 x 55 and a 30-06 within 2.5 -3 inches at 200 yds .45 x 70 and 30-30 one ragged hole at 50 yds.Best group at 80 yds with 45-70 11/2 inch,.. 30-30 about the same or a smidge less.However beyond 200 yds +/- is a distance to me regardless of what smoke pole one is shooting,that becomes marginal for over 90 % of the "sports" in he woods. Mostly cause they dont know( cant tell) 200yds from 325yds across a swamp,..or down a fire cut.In additoon I agree with Mr Petzal in that there are game shots and there are papaer puchers.Much the same as one may distinguish betwenn hanger jockys and Fighter pilotsYUK YUK.So it appears to me that you and i are many times not even on the same page.Ths due in my humble opinion to your apparent need to be right and the same time the big dog. Which by the way IS a pursuit that is your right,.to the point of nausia if you choose.Therefore, thusly, and accordingly.The activity I engage in for the most part is hunting,.. with a favorite tool ( rifle, shot gun bow & arrow,..etc)Accordingly a good part of it to me is intentionally NOT shooting somehting in the next zip code.Were I to engage in that ( and it has occured to me) it would be with a 50 cal.Elg at 1000 yds would be a diffrent kind of rush.Maybe similar to getting so close to a animal you can smell it.Which is also something I have done.( with a bow)I saw a deer shoulder shot with a .243,.. in the early 80's.I saw and heard the round ( think 90 gr) hit the anmal,on the point of the shoulder,...at 50 yds +/- certainly less than 60yd.Blood all over but the animal was lost ,.. not suficant penetration.If that would have beena 6.5 or 7 x5 or any number of calibers with bullet weight of 140-160,...dead deer.Point being the physics and math do not change over time ..sigficant/ appropriate mass/ sufficant speed 2400 fps (is good good enough) and a higher sectional density is what i consider resposible ethical hunting and sportsmanship.Marksmanship is opart of it ,.. but you dont shoot tanks from long distance with 30-06Have a great day Clay ,..

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

YohanIf a 243 is a sissy gun YUK YUK?Why do you make up due to lack of marksmanship with a bigger bullet! YUK YUK YUK!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Then I might have to buy me a .25-06 and find out!

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from Walt Smith wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave, I don't understand your thinking about the Winchester silver tips. My dad used 180 grainers for years and never had a problem with them. Of course he always shot all his deer in the neck.I use the same bullet in his old Rem.740 and it is the most accurate bullet I've found for it. My other 30-06 seems to digest Remington core locs the best. When I head to the swamps I always chamber a 180 grain Winchester fail safe , which is the best bullet ever made as far as I'm concerned. I've neck shot 3 bucks with this round at close range and every one of them have literaly sat on their a** and never took a step. I'm not sold on the XP-3, cost is way too much and I've got a lot of fail safes left Ha Ha.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterEvery 25-06 I've came across loves IMR4831 for 100-120 grain bullets!

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim In MO,.. OOOOPS ,..Certianly you know where you are so I am appropriatly corrected .Those guys in Wyomming tho at the Chianne Wild West days were however some crazy dudes.Other than one venue in Tiwan(one night in that town makes a grown man tremble)Never seen so much drinkin and fightin.I was amature an boxerx soldier and was mentored by special forces friend to some extent in the martial arts.And i can tell ya the,.. celbration in Chianne was at the time not a place for children or the timmid.Or anyone really who didnt wanna drink and fight.That bunch ranch hands cowboys rodio guys and attending women , so to speak make the bad ass bikers look like a nitting club in an honest fist fight.However to the point ,. I am at present blissfully divorced.Former wife was an only child so no sisters ,. which may well not be a bad thing.The English "stewardess" was not my wife ,. although after a point she did broach the subject.I was to be honest for a time not known for my keen judgemt regarding the women in my life and I passed.As I did on a couple other beautiful down to earth women who I m certain would have been fantastic spousal candidates.The reasons why I was married to whom i was married are not really inportant,..aside from the fact that I would sooner se myself on fire than to do that again.I will say now,. what will be on my tomb stone ,.."It is what it is,. not more and not less",.. keep an eye peeled for what sneakin up behind ya Jim ,.. but keep movin ahead,.. life is for livinnot wishin and hopin.Have found also that there is likley no woman on earth (unless she actually hunts or fishes) or her father or brother hunts or has hunted.Who will understand,.. a 7 daytrip to the deer , turky grouse woods.That program is not downloaded into her brain not woven ino heremotional an phycological fabric.Clasic example is a good friend explaining to his recent"East coast wife" ,. that he wanted to go bowhunting ,. tree stand hunting ,. for a 2 1/2 days.Her respoce is why does it take 2 1/2 days ,. her father palyed 18 all the time and it only took 4- 5 hours .I rest my caseIf I feel the need,.. or am suficiantly guilted into it.I now just inform the tender gender. Which is another misnomer as they (the ladies) are waaay tougher mentally and emotionally than 99% of men.That i have decided to go hunting or fishing.I f this does not interfear withcovert plans she has been harboring that i have not to date been made aware of.I will be gone for an estimated time unless I feel I can get away with a longer stay.Thusly unless I am siwashing in a tent with buddies she ( the woman of the moment ) is welcome to accompany me so long as I dont experiance the classic whine and bitch after the first 2 whole days.Which brings me to this.Due to professiona endevors I have come in contact over the years with quite a few women.If I EVER get married again it will be to a woman who either (1)already shoots in some capacity or actully wants to learn(2) Has no issue with hunting and who either doesm or has and or is willing to learn to hunt or fish(3)Who has no problem with wild meat in the kitchen meaning fish fowl or venisonand (4) is not a social climbing coury club wanna be,..As stated I would sooner set myslef on fire as do that circut again.Not that i hate country clubs or golf or tennis,.or the people who doI used to golf but it bores me, beyond torture .. I was /am a guy who religiously works out most days most of my life.Its just I just have very littel in common with people who just golf. The other truth is once I played a course a few times ,.. to me it was like wacthing the same movie over and over.So find what you like to do and do it ,.if its hunting and or fishing so be it,.. or golf or just shooting guns ,.. what ever.Find those who like to do what you do or at least are not opposed to what you do and engage in the appropriate activity with them,..If you do that i gurante thisYou won't have the time to deal with the ones that are in yourway.and they will not be able to get to you.When that happes you win by your absence in venue that is poison to who and what you are.which will allow you to spend more guilt free time and money pursuing the a most noble couse in lifeThe pursuit of a higher you. which leads to an amazing aray of other awakinings243 is a sissy gun YUK YUK

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

How is this for "fancy schmancy" bullets: 265 gr. .430 flat point bullets cast from mostly wheel weight metal at about 1300-1350 fps from my .44 mags. It don't get much fancier than that. My hunting buds and I have killed quite a few mulies and goats with this bullet but admitedly not all were one shot kills by any means. The reason as you might expect turned out to be inadequate shot placement rather than poor projectile performance.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA Mntnhunter,You didn't mention the barrel length on that 2506. My recommendation would be to take Clay's advice (hard to beat) and if that doesn't work try 50 gr Vihta-Vuori N 560 or 51 gr Reliant Reloader 19 if you have a 22" or shorter barrel. For a long barrel (say 23+) 53 gr Reloader 22, 55 gr IMR 7828, 55.5 gr Hodgdon H1000 and 60 gr Retumbo are powders to consider. In other words taylor your powder according to how much barrel you have to burn it in. Generally the longer the barrel the slower the powder you should use. These are all max loads so start low and work up to them in your gun. The Nosler manual gives a very slight edge to IMR4831 with the 120 part. My experience with a chronograph indicates that each gun usually has it's own favorite powder so I try many. Keep a sharp eye out for signs of high pressure especially if you are using military brass.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Tom,Would love to talk to you about that. Love '06, wondered about loadings for big game such as African plains game and TB.

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from Tom wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

My favorite bullet is Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 180 gr in 30-06 loaded by Federal. Accurate and deadly. I used on deer and African game.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Yohan,No, what I quantify as 'best day of all' is being gone all week hunting and coming back at last minute and she understands!!!!!!!!Does your wife have a sister?PS, Mo. is Missouri, but whats a couple miles

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

retired way car riderI've tried all sorts of "bullets" in my .270. Everything from the 90 grain FBHP that Sierra builds to the Nosler 160 grain Partition.About the only thing I haven't shot in it yet is the 140 grain by anybody.At this point, the only loads I shoot are the 90 gr and 130 gr, both by Sierra. The 90 shoots 3 inches high at 100 instead of 1.5 inches. Six clicks down on my scope and the 90 shoots 1.5 inches high at a hundred and I have a kick a#& varmint rifle. Six clicks back up, 130 gr deer rifle.Outside deer season, I carry my .22 Hornet with a 45 grain spitzer Sierra with 9.75 grains of Herco 2400.Killed a pig (small) at about 75 yards with the Hornet just last Sunday while I was out shed hunting!Bubba

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from retired way car rider wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba, I feel the same as you do about the 270 Win, but, as I live almost next door the the Hornady factory, I use their 130 grain SST--60 grains of H 4831-- federal match primers--great load and caliber for me---the only thing I don't use Hornady bullets for is the wife's pet 243 Win---use Speer 105 grain spitzers in it---these two guns have killed a lot of Nebraska mule deer.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterTry IMR4831 with a Federal 215 mag primer and let me know

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay,I have found those "fancy schmansy" bullets worth every penny.WA Mtnhunter,When I loaded for my 7mm Rem mag, I used the NP-120 with,as I recall,62grs of 4350. I had never chrono'ed it, but I'm sure it was cooking at over 3000fps. This was my P-dog load for practice with the occasional coyote and fox added to the bag.Just as accurate as the day was long, and dropped animals with a bad attitude!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

ClayThe 120 gr Partitions shoot fine in my .257 Roberts (all 3) but not so good in my 'naught six.I have loaded with H380 and IMR 4350 with Rem and Win LR primers with good results for the 120 gr Partition and 110 gr Accubond.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Reagrding "fancy schmansy" bullets,.. I concure.Unless and untill Im back in the places where critters make a habit of dinning on indigenous personal, and the odd hunter or two.I have found standard Hornady,. to be a faithfull and consistant performer. for all North American ruminants.Not to metion ( as is has been from by others here in ) not requiring significant transfer of funds to checking in order to cover the purchaese of a few hundred projectiles.and that is all I have to sayabout that.

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from YooperJack wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Way to go Clay! Now I have a new problem. I wear bi-focals. Does that mean that I have look for something special in a scope?First, I was shopping for a rifle. Next, I was going to put a scope on it. Now, apparently, I need something other than a scope from a catalogue or sporting goods store.Also, my Optometrist is an avid hunter/rifleman. Should I consult him before buying anything?YooperJack

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

PSAnd my Father too!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

You guys with your fancy smancy bullets, I’ll stick to my Hornady bullets that are tried and proven by me, myself and I with 45 years of hunting and competition!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

ShakyDepends on the time of year, and the workload received to process the item. Leopold does have a fast turnaround I must agree and it was the #1 seller in Alaska when I was there 86-90 and I’ll bet is still the #1 seller for performance reliability and warranty integrity by Leopold. Please don’t get me wrong about Leopold; they are worthy to be on any of my rifles for competition and hunting in the most extremes along with Sightron period. However Sightron you just go to a Sightron dealer and simply exchange right then and there for a brand new one so beet that! Remember, the price of a Sightron compared to a Leopold is the equivalent to the next higher model Leopold. By the way about Zeiss optics, they are the best in the world and are used by NASA etc. I’m not looking for aliens on some distant planet. LOL! To get serious about it, I believe you’re paying more for the name, rather than the product. This goes back to the report that off the shelf eye wear at Wal-Mart for less than 30 bucks or less has superior optics compared to eye masters etc. that you $200 to $500 for the same strength of lens and shape. Bi and tri focal are a deferent story for they are made specifically for the person.

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from Y0--han wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim in MontanaYa ya,. and her ve go some more yet too,.. ya ?Nuts ??? please,.. qualify nuts.It may be difeent in Montana,.I say this as I was in Wyoming once ( Wild west ays,.Chianne ) back in 70's,.. now those boys are / were nuts.Also as wondefull as that experiance was ( assume you refer to two deer in one day way back when up in Wisconsin ) it was by no means my best day.Depending on how one qualifies these things .That came later, involving 4 deer in two days (2 with one shot from 12 ga slug) my 8 x 57 and a very well constructed airline stewardess from England (currently refered to as "attendants") who was quite fond cooking and other domestic endevors.You would simply not believe what that woman could do with a Canada Goose.She was not a half bad shot either ,.. but her true genius lay in more womanly venues.The experiane related (your all knowingness) was secondary as to intent and focus, and only used to make a point ,..Which is,.. there just aint much you can say negative about 30-06 and 180gr core locks.Unless the recoil is more than one may care to deal with.Have one scope cut ( wery faded now) and my nose broken by recoil,.(twice) so I speak in this regard from some experiance.Please keep in mind however ,ths round (30 -06) is not my "go to" cartridge,..As previously stated I have predisposition to metric stuff, and of late (under 100 steps)my 45-70 thumper.Realizing 40 plus years, chasing Whitetails and other creatures.. some birds, bunnys and waterfowl(no bears) ,.. does not make me an expert ,..I there fore, thusly and accordingly,.. most humbly seek your indulgence in these important matters of discussion.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have much experience with the Nosler Partition, which were all 1 shot kills.Most bullets I did not recover, and some were complete pass through shots;but the animals were dead within 20 yds when shot.I also have used Speer, and Sierra bullets with good results, and I must admit the Hornady Interlock is a winner for the price. I purchased some because they were cheap(100 count box for $24.99)and they are worth at least twice the price in my opinion.Currently, I am going to try the Accubond 225 gr bullets in my .35 Whelen as soon I can get to the range.About minimum caliber for deer;that could take another blog discussion...have we debated this topic before Dave?

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from Shaky wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay,Sir; I'll tell you a story about a Leupold VX11 that quit adjusting up & down. Sent to the factory 2/28/08, recieved repaired, 3/11/08. That is NOT 10 weeks,sir, that is 11 days. The scope is a 1968 mod. with a forward erector, signified by a tiny dimple about 7/8" behind the front bell. Leupold informed me that clamping the ring over the little dimple will cause the scope to loose verticle adjustment. When I baught that scope in '68, that is exactly where I clamped the front ring, firmly, so it wouldn't slip. It stood the recoil of the 300 Weatherby for about 1400 or so rounds, but I put it on a 30/06,and had no adjustment,(I moved the ring about 1/4"), I never knew what that dimple was for. Anyway, it is rare that I get a chance to rattle your chain, so I could't pass it up,yuk,yuk.Back on subject, my 2cents worth on various designer bullets, when I am supplied with designer game to shoot, I'll start shooting designer bullets. Until then, Hornady makes as fine a game bullet as I need. I refuse to plop down a dollar apiece for bullets that don't kill any deader than those that costs .25c.I would have to cut my shooting by 75%. I know, some of you will say "practice with the cheap stuff and hunt with the better", but none will print the same, and my old standby still kills "graveyard dead", as one stated it. But if you fellows can afford the desinger bullets, and like them, go right ahead.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

WA MtnhunterWhat grain Nosler Partition, powder and primer you using in that 257 Roberts that your not a happy camper with?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dr. RalphWhat part of the country you in?

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from Brian wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave,Thank you for awnsering my bullet question. I became interested in bullet performance after a Hornady Interlock deframented on 190 class mulie. I got the deer, but I swore I would choose a better bullet in the future.

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from Rocky Mtn Hunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

To my thinking and teh game and where I hunt, the REm Core-lokt and the Swift Scirocco in l50 or l80 gr bullets is enough for 99.9% of what we hunt. I do like the Sciroccos for long range shooting and the Core-lokts for short range. I use the 180 Scirocco;s out west as I hunt Mule Deer and Elk at same time.No doubt more game has been killd with the Core-lokt than all the othr combined. It works fine out to 200 yds, then kind of falls off. Plus with the Scirocco'c I love the Polymer tip for opening and teh boattail's.The l50 gr is now a very long range bullet. As a rule 200 yds is about my range, as my western guns are zeroed in for, but here at home at 200 yds or less the Core-lokts in l50 grs are gret for W-tails. If truth be known, I bet l/2 the hunters in the Western states use Corer-lokts on hunts today. They can be purchased at many out of the way stores if you shoot up all teh ammo you brought out..I even stoped at a Saloon in the Wilds of MT and they had 3 calibers of ammo. 270, 30-06 and 300 win mag allCore-lokts. shoot what-ever shoots best for you and what your fiearm likes & the game you hunting.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Yohan,Your nuts, You should have posted that experience on Daves' blog 'My best day of All'.Of course maybe it wasn't your best. Lucky

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

oddball,Yes , I've had a weird experience with the Fusion and will never buy them again. My son was new to hunting, had never taken a deer so against my better judgement I thought I'd hook him up with something new and would hold together for penetration if his shot placement wasn't perfect. So I bought several boxes of Fusions and we went to the range. To make a long story short when I arrived at the dead doe (very small) I asked him about the shot, he said she was only 15 yds so he shot before she ran. I said that exit hole is really big (size of small pear), he said, dad thats where I shot her. He was right, no exit hole just large meat damage and metal fragments inside. Luckily enough lung damage had been done he got his first deer. If that deer had been a 200 lb. buck it would have been gone deep in woods to die a nasty death.I have a box of 19 fusion '06 bullets, cheap.

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from chuckb wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave: Nice to see a word from DickGun, who's probably seen 10,000 rounds shot at big game in his career as a guide and outfitter. He could write a book on bullets, and probably should.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

By the by Bubba ,. that laod sound very familiar,..Could it be ,..that was Cactus Jacks recipie ?

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba ,.. That is the way it is ,. guns especially bolt guns that are Purdy ,.. kinda like women ,..36 c vs 36 c+After a point its in the eye of the beholder,.. or ahhem,.the hands of the beholderwhich reminds me ,..have a great eveming

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ripper IIIAs an after thought, welcome to the world of the white tail freaks! We have fun, we argue, we've even been know to throw male bovine fecal matter about, but if you need help, SOMEBODY on these blogs will provide an answer!Bubba

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ripper IIIThe .270 Winchester is just a good caliber!Now, most of what I post is personal preference with what I "know" about thrown in on the rare occasion!Is the .270 Winchester "THE" caliber? NO! To me? YES!I just like the .270. It was the first caliber I picked up after realizing there was something out there besides a .30-30 Win. I have killed many deer with it. I have lost some, not many! I have missed some, not many! When all is said and done, I'll take my .270 Win with it's 130 grain Sierra BTSP sitting on top of 46.5 grains of IMR 4895 and a Win LR primer. It shoots right along with factory loads and performs admirably. Well enough that I see no need to go elsewhere!Once again, my thoughts, nothing etched in stone!Bubba

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ray,...Was gonna stop but this to youI hunted a lot of the upper tier of states for a few years.Most times in Wi as that is where my father lived when he was still walking the planetBut also Minnisota ,..Michigan PA and New York. Never made it to Main ,. always wanted to but just how it goesI was up (way up) in WI this past year.As predictable as the sun coming up in the east,.. unless your compass gets screwed up which is another storyMany rifles many rounds but the predominat flavor and round used by the boys who know what they are about in the big woodsis 30-06 180gr soft point.That round IS,....HUNTING UP NORT in da big pine country.I get teased as due to predisposition toward metric calibers e I carry 8 x 57,.. 6.5 x 55 or 30 -30and latley a 45-70 cause i like the way it sounds when i shoot it YUK YUK ,.. and it is a butt kicker under 100 yds.But make no mistake,..Guys who actually shoot deer on a consistant basis know.A 180 grain Rem core lock out of your choice of 30-06 will get it done posty hasty ,Unless of course you are shooting them through the tops of their deer earsYup,.. you got right gun and right round,.. never shot anything with a 220 ,.. so cant comment ,.. but know fellas who have,.. they like it for bear too.one guy said 220 gr also good for shooting hole in frozen lake for ice fishing ,.. again cant comment .Once many moons ago hunting way up in WI,.. on Monday following opemnih weekend(99.9%) OF ALL HUNTERS were back home working,.wacthing football etc.We were young .. had the time so decided to hunt until the day before thanks giving.Not marrid yet so wife to be was kinda pissed but she was warned and she did get over it. Made it bak in time for turkey .There was no one else in the woods for miles except me my buddys and the trees.And what ever else lives in that giant God forsaken country ,.. that i love to hunt in.I dropped my Mauser on a rock(only time ever) bent the front site beyond repair.Only had one gun with me and I was sick.But it broke the spell ,. we started seeing deer right away after that.A buddy had a backup Browning bolt 1960's vintage 30-06,.. with 2x scope,..and a box of 180gr Rem corelocsTwo rounds in a dixie cup at 100 yds told me I was good to go.I used that gun to shoot two deer the nexy day.One running like crazy, (flat out running like a horse) ,.. not bounding across a swamp ,did about 14 summerault when it got hit,.. and one standing in a clearing just wating to get shot YUK YUK..Both deer dropped like they were pole axed,. tried to buy the gun ,. but my fiend would not sell ,..Yup 30-06 in my humble opinion is the "Big Dog" in the North Woods

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from oddball wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

My 25-06 loves the federal fusions. Shoots them well under an inch. I shot a 190 dressed 9 pt from about 30 yards and had complete pass through. Heart and lungs were completely destroyed. He ran all of 20 yards. Anyone else had any experience with fusions. I haven't seen any one mention them.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

In summary, after all is said and done. The one bullet designer that I admire more than any other, remember this is a personal thing now, is Joyce Hornady. To me he made reliable reloading bullets affordable to all. If I had to pick just one bullet type to use on all North American big game, it would be the Hornady Spire Point Interlock. It is this bullet that I have come to judge all others by. Sure, there are better bullets and there are lesser bullets. There are a host of good bullet designers out there also. My only regret is that I didn't discover them sooner. I imagine lots of you are like me, you just like to try different bullets to test them and to see how they perform. I've been doing this off and on for years. The most convenient testing media for me has been Blacktail Deer during legal hunting seasons. This may contribute to some extent on poor results. Like being too close, too high of velocity, not enough mass to the animal, etc. It's alot of fun and I'll continue to do it. But if I had to choose just one bullet, regardless of the Hornady Company's attitude toward my fellow hunters, it would be the Spire Point Interlock. In the meantime I'll shoot plenty of other bullets too.

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Raph how ya doin ,..pretty busy of late ,.. but check in ,.. when time permits,..Was a little woried ,..that Moc something or other guy was gonna kick my a$$ YUK YUK,..unt here ve go agin more.As I have stated in earlier miss-spellings,. it has been my lot and privialge to take (now) a smidge over 110 white tails of varying sizes ,..This of course does not refer to that associated with a caucasion house of ill repute.Having done this (shot deer) with litteraly everything from a 22 LR ( which was purly and simply self defence and 36 yeras ago ) to 45-70 12 ga slugs and,....one with 375 H&HUnderstated,you don't need 375 H&H for deer.. It was a messy proposition ,.. decent deer maybe 150- 160lb on the hoof ,. hit it head on (270gr) ,.. and completly ruind a hind 1/4.Did not however have to look for it.This (also) in my humble opinion is classic example of deminshing marginal returns.In adition ,..it is now,. has been and will continue to be my humble opinion.Regardless of the caliber of the "arrow" ,.. to a point .Sufficant weight /mass,. and sectional density at speeds under warp three,and above 2400fps, .. correctly placed will kill dead ,.. anything that breaths,.. that is not evil.This of course excluding x wife.who may well withstand tank canister at close range.These ballalistic paramaters do not apply to shotgun and front loaders.Raltives in Norway say they on regular basis dispatch the" ELG " (moose) with 160 gr 6.5 x 55 ,..and most Scandanvian countries Finland included are all pretty high on the .308Yup 7.62 natoThey consider it good Elg ( moose) and seal medicine.One guy in Norway says,..Ya I hand load .308 with 160 gr bullets and the Elg / moose get pretty sick pretty quick.He also says 150 gr work good to ,. he just prefers a heaver bullet ,..as he says,..you yust neever know.The same guy also recently got hold of a Marlin 45-70(from somwhere) and he just loves that gun.He says,.. ya Yohan shotta beeg cow behind da front leg running across a bog at 70 meter ,. legs get tangle up pretty quick,.. YUK YUKPretty sure he was using 300 gr winchester hp.The few deer I could not find,.. (not included in body count) .Were small deer marginally hit with light fast projectiles,..(yes 243 with 90 grainers) up close which is when I simply stopped using anything less than than 150 gr on deer..The deer taken with 6.5 (160 gr) were dead before they knew there was a serious problem,.. but had blow up with 25-06 with light bulletsMay take is most of my lost animals,.. may well have not been lost using a heavier "arrow" at slower speed.Knew an old gunsmith ( not my father) who was crippled (polio) who said "he couldn't chase em in his wheel chair".So he shot a minor truck load of whitetails from his truck (special permit) with 110 gr out of 30-06,..But he did tell me one day over coffee.Had gone to get a gun he had stocked.A few he shot at close range ,under 30 yds,.. his son had to go find. some he didnt find.His take ?? bullet failure,..as stated her in by other participants.Thusly ,.. after due onsideration.His conclusion was not to shoot deer of any size with that load ,..under 30 - 40 ydsHe kept a 30-30 scope sighted Marlin along side for the close stuff.Which to me becomes the interseting partAs it did over time come to pass that he decided.Out to 50 yds +/-,..A 30-30 ( 150 gr) was better killer,..than 06 with 110 grain pill just over warp 3.within that distance.Past the 60-70 yd mark he said 110 grain pill out of 06 had enough time to slow down, so bullet would not fragmet.. and the deer acted like they got hit by lightning.UUUUUFDAAA !!!

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from Gary wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I just realized that my second paragraph makes absolutely no sense.It should have read something along the lines of: lighter designed bullets propelled at modest velocities.Sorry

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from Gary wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I wish I had paid more attention in physics class, as I am sure it would lend support to what I am about to say. But alas.I tend to believe that if the majority of your shots--on whitetails--are at close range, then slower lighter designed bullets are best.Most of the hunting I have done occured in a part of West Virginia where a long shot is seventy five yards and the majority of shots are significanlty shorter.When I first started reloading, I fell under the illusion that faster is always better. Needless to say, I loaded everything to the max. There was only one problem with this, no matter what bullets I used, most seeemed to pass straight through with little in the way of internal damage. Then I read that most commercial ammo is loaded significantly below max so that it was safe to shoot in older firearms. So I started to back off on the velocity and miraculously the problem abated.In addition, one of the guys that hunts with us has carried a TC Contender with a twelve inch barrel chambered for the 6.5 TCU ( a 223 case necked up to accept the 6.5mm bullets) since the early 1980s. This gun propels a 120 grain Ballistic Tip at about 1800 fps, yet we have never tracked a deer he shot with it. Occassionally, there will not be an exit wound, but the internal damage is always so severe that most of the deer he has shot dropped on the spot.

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from 1729 wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I'm still trying to figure out what a .243 is good for. I've shot plenty of prairie dogs with mine, and I've taken deer. It does both of those just fine, dead is dead. I'm going to guess that it would do alright on pronghorn, impala, duikar, or any other variety of African plains antelope that weighs in at less than 230 pounds.It will also kill coyotes, racoons, foxes, badgers, and such. It is a good cartridge for beginning shooters - low recoil. It is a good cartride for beginners because of the variety of bullets available and overall low cost.There are a lot of things the .243 isn't good at. It can't wash your car, it can't televise the revolution, and it can't brew coffee.Changing gears:A lot of people say the .243 is a dandy cartridge for deer, but you have to be careful about shot placement. Please find me a rifle that I don't have to be careful about shot placement. Please find me a rifle that whenever I pull the trigger my target is going to die because shot placement is not important.

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from Jim wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have been using a .243 since the early 1960s. My Remington 600 was a whole $67.99 at Gibson's in North Platte, NE. It's on it's 4th barrel and while it has killed thousands and thousands of P. Dogs, and over a 100 deer have been hung in the barn using it. All shot with 95 to 100 grain bullets. I have never lost a deer and I have made some long shots, but most are under 150 yards. I feel I'm a good shot thanks to the P. Dogs mainly. We like to shot them at the 1/4 mile fence line or 440 yards. When you get 90% of those shots, any deer is an easy shot. The ol'600 is ugly with most of the blue and stock finish gone, but it will always put 5 shoots touching at 100 yards if you do your part. New Shilen barrel always helps. It has never had a factory round, only handloads neck sized only.I have also shot over 50 deer with a muzzleloader and never had to track a one. I even killed a ton Bison with one shot with a muzzleloader using 150 grs Triple 7 and a 440 gr PowerBelt Bullet at 80 yards. Broke front shoulder facing me, took off the top of the heart and lodged in the off front shoulder. It was recovered at the locker plant and wighted 411 grains.Bullet placement is first, then bullet power and strenght. A gun yo can accurately shoot is very important, more important than a .007 increase in bullet diamenter.

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from Heath wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have shot a 243 with very good success, many of the deer falling in their tracks. I also shot a 150 lb doe right behind the shoulder with a 220 gr. bullet from a 300 win mag. That deer fell in its track and then got up and ran over 250 yds. and jumped a fence before expiring. I know shoot a .30-378 Weatherby Mag. The only animal that i have shot with it that did not fall in its tracks was a 200 lb Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Shooting 180 gr. Barnes X at 3450 fps MV, the bullet did not expand at all. I thought i was missing. The deer fell within 15 yards of the first shot, but never even reacted to the first 2 shots. Upon recovering the deer, 3 shots right behind the front shoulder. Point is, even though you have perfect shot placement, some animals just have a will to live.

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from Roy wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

With all of the talk of <200 yard shots, I am surprised no one mentioned the boring old Remington Core-Lokt Round Nose Bullet? I have used this factory bullet in 180 and 220 grain from my 30-06 Remington 700 Titanium for the past few years yeilding nine whitetail deer with the 180's and two black bear (180# and 356#) with the 220's. Shots were all one shot one kill and ranged from 25 yards to 130 yards. None of these critters traveled more than fifteen yards, but then again, shot placement was where it needed to be.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Yohan welcome back I have had the exact same experience with my Norma 150 gr. 7X57's... UUUFDAHHH!

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay, I was speaking from experience... if I could find a place to hunt that actually offered shots over 100 yards I would probably say they are the best at long range too.RipperIII your ballistic tip did exactly what it was supposed to do... They are designed for thin skinned animals and blow up on impact taking out internal organs and the base exits for a blood trail, which is never needed. Massive damage as you witnessed. I am in a state of bewilderment though. If you were taking Petzal's advice you would have purchased a .338 and missed the deer completely, cut your eyebrow in half and been knocked out of a perfectly good tree stand breaking your neck and coming face to face with the ghost of recoil past...I'm going to re-ask crm3006's comment... Paul, what's the .243 for?

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from Yohan wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

And here dey go again,..Ya ya ,.. vill someone please pull da plug already .Shoot da animal to close mit da light bullet it is gonna do goofy tings ya.We all know dat ,. also we all know dat preimium bulletoes let people shoot bigger criters mit da light bullet but,..too close mit da speedy ones is recipie for bad terminal ballistic ,.. ve all know dat one too,.. ya ??No matter what caliber da arrow is like to see minimum 130 gr for da deer ,.. and 165 ( 30-06) for da moose.Not of von da pills need to go fastr than 3000 fps niether no how.I whacked a couple bucks up nort once mit da 8 x 57 and da 159 grNorma,.. UUUFDAHHH boys.89 yds both,.. one right after da odderYou could have put NFL regulaton football on da wound channel.All da old timers know ,.. to fast is too fast bullets act funny ,.. especialy when you shoot da critter up close and personal like.as to da moose / elk ,. 200 grain turdy oh six is preeeeety good ,..moose medicine you bet.Some of da boys even in Africa use it to shoot da Elephant, ya

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

As I read the posts, the common denominator with the Nosler Partition failures as shedding of mass and failure to penetrate completely. I hear (and have seen) all the time about the bullet that "came to rest under the off side hide". Therein lies the problem. As I previously posted, and still believe, a penetrating shot that perforates the chest cavity forward of the diaphram will cause lungs to collapse and limit distance run after the hit. A deer hit will either run or stand and drop. Hard to predict which. The only thing that guarantees a drop is massive damage to the brain or spinal column and associated nerve bundles. Any deer not instantly paralyzed can run 100+ yards on adrenalin regardless of organ destruction.If you just have to have the one-shot-drop-in-the-tracks everytime, better get real good on brain and spine shots. Otherwise place your shots well and know that you might have to do a little tracking.ClayMy .257 is a Roberts, not a Weatherby Mag, although I'm thinking about buying one. My Wby MK V is a .30-06.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

RipperIIIThere is no real comparison between 243/270.As far as the 7/08-270, are you asking which is more powerful? My nod would go to the 270. The bullet weights are basically the same, the 7mm diameter is bigger but by only .007". The real difference is in the case size. The 270 holds more powder and thus more velocity and more recoil. If my buying decision came down to power I'd say 270, if it was about recoil then 7/08 but only with the same weight rifle otherwise your not gaining a thing.

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from dickgun wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave,I have not had extensive experience with all of the bullets you refer to. However, as I have commented before in this blog, I have had extensive experience with Swift A-Frame bullets on huge brown bear. Shortly after Lee brought the bullets to market a client used them on a bear in the 10' class. Both bullets were recovered after the kill and were most impressive in both pentration and expansion - the two most critical elements on dangerous game. Since we never allowed handloads in company rifles (for obvious reasons) we did not start using Swift in company backup guns until they were available in factory loads. Then they became standard. They were the bullet of recommendation to all my clients. Personally, I have used Scirocco with good results on mountain game. As for the "partition issue" I will not (heh,heh,heh) get into that.dickgun

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from Gerald Keller wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I had complete faith in Nosler Partitions untill I shot a buck at about 55 yards with a 225 gr. Partition from a .358 Win.Deer went down,came up running and did not provide a second shot because of the brush.Never found it.Couple of days later I shoot another buck,same load,45 yds. through the shoulder.Deer runs off and I don't find him till nezt morning(27 degree night,meat was fine).Traveled over 250 yds.with double back which made finding trail in dark immpossible.Bullet had shed all lead and we only found the jacket in the body cavity.There were no lungs left.I've switched to Barnes Triple Shocks,and love them.As to pressure,I find that I can usually load from one to four grains more powder then the Barnes book calls for with regular "X's",and get higher velocity with no signs of excess pressure.as far as the 243 is concerned,I know an outfitter in Wyoming that shoots elk,deer,and moose with a 75gr. hollow point with his 243,but he has the time an patience to take only broadside lung shots.Most of us who save for years for an elk hunt don't have that luxury,and must over compinsate with our choice of cartride and bullet.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay,One more time is it the arrer or the "indi'n" (as pronouned by Dustin Hoffman in "The little big man"). I can't remember.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I sort of agree with Bubba when he said that a marginal hit from a .243 bullet of less than 100 grains is less likely to be instantly or quickly fatal. Small bullets will kill - .22 calibers have killed lots of deer - but the shot has to be precise, and nobody can make a precise shot every time under real hunting conditions. A larger bullet has a larger margin of error when things don't go exactly right. Yes, shot placement is the most important factor, but until you can put every shot precisely where you intend every time under real hunting conditions, reducing the margin of error is critical. We owe it to the game we hunt to minimize errors.

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from SL wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

It's funny but years ago I used the run of the mill Remington and Federal cartridges in my .270 and got more instant drop kills on deer than I have ever gotten with any of the new high priced Premium cartridges of late. I have to say that my shot placements have been way better in recent years also. I just think the premium stuff is really not necessary for deer sized game. They are too tough and zip right through the animal without expanding a whole lot. Almost act like full-metal jackets on thin skinned game like deer. Yeah, it will surely kill the deer with a well placed shot, but it will most likely run a ways. Sometimes in areas with a lot of hunter pressure it isn't exactly a good thing to have a deer run off and then have someone else take a shot at it. You might gain a little in accuracy with the premium loads, but otherwise they really are not worth the extra cost for deer in my opinion.

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Gentlemen,speaking of the .243, how much difference is there in the size/weight of the .243 vs. .270?Is the amount of powder a big factor in the difference in performance of these two rounds? How about the difference between a 7mm/08 vs. .270?Thanks,RipperIII

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Del in KSI agree that bands on the XXX do alleviate some of the higher pressure associated with Barnes bullets but it still doesn’t cure the problem of a solid copper bullet.WA MtnhunterWhat’s your loading data you using for your 257 Weatherby Mag with Nosler partitions?

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Chuck,I had the exact same experience two years ago but at 50yds with my 06, 165gr handloads. Bullet went in chest clipped everything off as you named (you a doc?) and came to settle in left ham in hide. She took off dead as a door nail and she must have been blind at that point cause she ran square into a log, fell and flopped like a fish. Tell me a human could be that tough?

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba,as a "new shooter" I can attest to the efficacy of ear protection, I have a pair of amplified muffs with the noise canceling feature, just knowing that my ears are protected gave me the confidence to ease the trigger with out concern for muzzle blast, and even while a the range I never noticed any real recoil from my .270.RipperIII

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bubba,It seems to be the universal line of thought that you give a 'first timer' or a small statured person a smaller caliber. My line of thought is that these people have the least shooting and field experience so maybe a tad larger caliber,say a 7/08 over a 243, for them may be better because a less than perfect shot may be compensated by the larger bullet.Another thing that I have noticed provide immeasurable amount of help to new shooters is good ear protection. One boy just wasn't shooting well so I put a double set on him, plugs and ear muffs. His shooting really picked up.

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from Chuck wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

A number of years back, I made about a 160 yard shot at a nice doe who, when hit, lowered her head and took off like a rocket into dense cover. She ran a total of 110 yards, the last 30 into very heavy cover. As I field dressed her, I found that my .270 Federal Premium High Energy bullet had completely destoyed her heart. Both of the atria,the chambers at the top of the heart, as well as the vessels bring blood to them (Vena Cavae and the Pulmonary Vein) were shredded and unable to transport any blood to the venticles, the larger chambers that actually send blood to the rest of the body. Her chest cavity was full of blood. I did not recover the bullet. There was nothing wrong with shot placement or with the bullet. Her heart was dead when the bullet hit her, just her head didn't know it, so she ran when she felt it hit. Some times you do everything right, the shot is where it needs to be and still things don't work like you want them to. Stuff happens.

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Thanks Del,I have a friend who just moved to Kansas, I'm looking forward to heading out there for a hunt.

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from Fischerhunts wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

In '87 I got on a lease in Deep South Texas. There were 8 of us. Several of the men had young boys who hunted with them on occasion. This is where my bad feelings for the .243 started. Most of the boys had .243's they hunted with all generally sighted in at about 1" high at 100 yards. This was way before laser range finders were available so there was a lot more guess work envolved. Picture the scene. Dad and jr. hunting in a Tower blind, looking in several directions down S. Texas senderos (they run for miles). Out steps a Good buck and Jr. asks "Dad can I shoot Him? how far is he?" Dad guesses about 175 yards and says hold on his shoulder about 1/3 way up. Later after they come to camp and say they have been tracking a wounded deer all afternoon and they would like some help. We step off the shot and it's 350 paces and we have a leg shot buck who may never be found but we spend several hours looking unsucessfully. This happens 4 times in one season. I've had the same scenerio happen in the Texas Hill Country (smaller deer, closer shots)always with a .243 and a inexperienced hunter. I think that the .243 is a fine varmit round and a deer round only in the hands of an expert. In '87 I showed up with a 25-06 in s. Texas, shooting 120 gr. fbsp Sierra's, and the next year I stepped up to a 7mm Mag. Yes I wanted a larger hole and more blood on the ground. It seems that the ground in S. Texas is mainly cliche clay and when a drop of blood hits it, it forms a ball, no visible blood, so you blood trail by poking little balls of dirt until your finger comes up bloody. And oh yes, the brush is very thick and deer disapear very quickly.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ripper 111,Click rifles on the right side of the home page. Then scroll down to "270 vs 3006" and read. Plenty of info on 270 win. It's a good round. Millions of critters have been shot with it including many of my own. 'Tho recently I decided to do my deer hunting with a 2506. The 25 has more velocity and less recoil than the 270. Everthing I've shot with either round expired quickly when hit in the vitals.

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from RipperIII wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Gentlemen,I have been reading your posts for quite awhile as I am brand new to this sport of hunting, and need all the info I can get. I purchased a .270 (on the recommendation of Mr. Petzal) because I wanted an all-round rifle since I can't at this point afford one rifle for every animal, however I don't hear much conversation about this caliber.My only experience with this gun happened a few weeks back on my first deer hunt. I killed a buck at 130yds quartering away,shot through the right shoulder area and exited at the base of the neck on the left side with nickle sized wound. the bullet was a federal 130gr. nosler ballistic tip, the animal raised up on his hind legs and fell over backwards, rested a few seconds then did the "curly shuffle" and expired.There was plenty of blood on the ground had I need to track this buck. I had to feel around for the entry wound as there was no visible mark. When the deer was hoisted up to be dressed, a veritable river of blood rushed out of the exit wound and as the skin was removed ,a lot of blood was present causing my guide to remark that "the bullet must have broken up". I didn't get to see the organs, but I think that the bullet stayed intact and severed the jugler on the way out. I feel very confident in both my rifle and my bullet choice(even for a rookie)as they went were they were aimed and did the job at hand, but i would really like to hear some of you guys respond.Thanks,RipperIII

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

The Nosler Partitions are overrated as an elk bullet in my opinion. The front core is designed to mushroom and depart, leaving the rear core with half the weight and perhaps 20 percent of remaining energy to complete the penetration. Yeah, yeah, I know many of you have killed many deer and elk with the NP. No wonder since it has been around so long. Just like Core-Lokt's.I find that the Partition fails to provide acceptable accuracy in my Weatherby. The Nosler custom loads in .35 Whelen provide acceptable accuracy, but not as consistent as the Federal Trophy Bonded for $15 less. The Accubonds did not shoot well in the Weatherby either. The Barnes TSX is a different story. Sub-MOA with Federal loads and devastating performance on game. They perform so well in my Weatherby that I'm not messing around with handloads for it any more, except for field practice loads.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

The .243 Winchester is, without a doubt, a hunting rifle/round. It has killed "lotsa" deer sized game and will continue on. As I've stated before in these blogs, the "problem" is, -and folks, I'm not trying to be ugly or mean!- most guys buy them for a kid's or wife's "first" rifle. That's not the "problem".They take the "family member" to the range, discover the recoil is still a bit much until they shoot a bullet of less than 100 grains.Here is where the problem lies.A .244 caliber bullet of less than 100 grains means a marginal hit is less likely to be immediately/quickly fatal; ergo: lost animal!A bullet that light needs precise placement to work reliably, "that's" what I'm saying!Bubba

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Bullet placement is always the key. You can shoot an animal with pretty much any projectile traveling at even moderate to low velocity and kill it grave yard dead if you disrupt the nervous system or pumping station. Years back when I was in college doing research, we collected whitail specimens for hemoragic disease studies by head shooting them with a .22 magnum. If the range was less than 30 yards we would use a .22 long rifle with a CCI Mini Mag 40 grain solid point. Place either round at the base of the ear and it is lights out! The reason for using either round was to lessen tissue damage. We also wanted to prevent pass through shots because we collected most of the deer from urban areas where they were over populated.Everybody has their favorite bullet. Mine is now the Nosler Accubond. Good tissue damage, good exit wound. Have not needed the exit wound to blood trail so far!

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from LowRecoil wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Count me among the proponents of the .243. I think Paul Brinkley said it well: "Anyone who says a .243 is marginal on deer has never spent time hunting with one, or isnt a competent marksman."I have either killed or witnessed the killing of roughly 50 whitetails with a .243. Two- count 'em- ran after the shot. The rest fell where they were standing. The two that ran were poorly hit, with the shooter at fault. Those two deer would have run no matter the caliber.This is the part where I expect the big-bore boys to really go ballistic. (Ballistic. I kill me.) The bullets that are dropping these deer in their tracks are 75 grain (yes, 75) Hornadys. All the expert opinions that I'm using undersized bullets won't convince me. I know from experience that these bullets group phenomonally from my M700, and that they are Death Itsownself on whitetails.As a note, the deer I've seen killed have not been spectacularly large: small does up to a few bucks in the 200-pound range. If you tell me that the .243 is fine for the small ones but woefully undersized for the 300-pound bruisers of, say, Saskatchewan, I won't argue with you. I've never seen the results of a small bullet on deer that large.Additionally: I am NOT suggesting that Congress should outlaw everything but 75-grain .243 bullets for deer. The larger-caliber rounds have proven their worth innumerable times. In fact, I have killed several deer with a .30-06, and I frequently carry a 6.5x55 M700 that I am in love with beyond all reason. I am merely defending the poor little .243 from all the big-bore bullies who want to call it too small.

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from sarg wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay , I still have a handfull of the Rem. Silver tips in .308 that I loaded. I like them. I usually load Serria bullets in my .308 and 7.x57. I just last night loaded a hand full of .204 Ruger's to try using the 39gr. BlitzKing's and BLC-2 powder. I really haven't shot this .204 much, just zeroed but when the weather gets better will try them out.

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from retired waycar rider wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

hummmmmmmmm--- after 41 mule deer--the 105-- speer in 243 has been great for my wifes Remington model 600--range up to 200 yards and never went over 5 yards after being hit---no meat damage either---can't get any better than that-- H4831 and federal match primers--- works great here in the northern high plains

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from crm3006 wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

What is the .243 for?

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from Paul Brinkley wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Premium bullets have leveled the caliber playing field for sure. But for deer I think a plain old silvertip or powerpoint is better. Anyone who says a .243 is marginal on deer has never spent time hunting with one, or isnt a competent marksman. Elk, maybe not, deer and smaller are DRT. A 30'06 and a .243 are the only 2 rifles a man will ever need, unless a brown bear or high volume prarie dog town is on the agenda.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

i have three rules of shooting-placement, placement, placement. i've killed bear, elk, deer (both mulie and whitetail) and antelope with 150 gr remington coreloct and never had an animal go more than twenty yards. i have also shot lots of antelope and mule deer with a .243 using 100 gr federal loads and they fall where they were standing. i once saw an antelope hit with a 7mm mag run 100 yards, go under a fence and expire on the other side. she had a exit hole bigger than my fist, but the shot was back a bit and missed the lungs. i even taken an antelope with a 55 gr .22-250 and that one ran about thirty yards before dropping. its where you hit them that counts.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Just for the record: Last year was my first experience with the Swift A-frame. I shot a buck at about 25 yds and after I pulled the trigger I realized there were some dry Manzanita brush (twigs) between him and me. The 150 gn .270WSM A-frame load bulldozed through the twigs and went on through the buck killing it instantly. Upon examining the deer, the entrance hole was about 3/4 inch and the exit about 2 inches. A double lunger that made jelly of the heart also. I thought: This has to be one heck of a tough bullet to be this reliable. Obviously the bullet had started expanding a little before it hit the animal. There was no excessive tissue damage to the shoulder area, just a minimal amount. Later on I killed a nice clean (odorless) 240 lb Black Bear at 200 yards with the same load, another heart/lungshot. The same result, a minimal amount of meat loss. Neither animal went 10 ft after being hit. Just for the record.....Looks like the A-frame could be considered extremely reliable. Just make sure you don't miss the vitals.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Clay: Your statement validates my theory based upon my readingsDel: Your findings will no doubt be informative.Thanks guys

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

John R,True the neck shot will really put them down but if you miss the spine a little high the deer will get away everytime with a nasty flesh wound. I hit a trophy Alaskan Black tail there with a 350 Rem magnum(He was dead on his feet running after the first shot went thru the liver). It made a huge open wound on that buck's neck. He ran until a 3rd shot dropped him.Another gent of my aquaintance had a "dead" neckshot Whitetail buck get up and run away (never found) while he was getting his camera out.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

BA,A few years ago I shot a 7 pointer broadside at 20 yds with a Win Mdl 70 fwt in 270 Win. The Nosler 140 gr BTwent between 2 ribs and put a pencil sized hole thru both lungs and exited with a small hole. The deer reacted by bounding underneath my tree stand and stopped at a nearby cattle fence to look for danger. My second shot from above and slightly behind broke his neck. Up 'til then I had good results with that bullet. After that switched to partitions with never a problem. I plan to shoot the Barnes XXX next year because it is more accurate in my 2506 and has a higher BC. I guess there are no perfect bullets and the plethora of variables such as caliber, velocity, bullet weight, rifling twist, size of animal, etc further compounds the matter. It is also my contention that it matters if the bullet hits flesh or bone on the way into the critters body.Clay and Ishawooa,The bands on the XXX are supposed to aleviate the higher pressure issues with Barnes bullets. I am working on loads for the 100 grainer in 2506. So far only one trip to the range and it was too dang cold to fool with the Ohler. Did get good accuracy in the wind no less. Since then made up loads using 4 different powders and 2 brands of brass. Waiting for good weather for next trip to the range. Will report when I have some results.

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from John R wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Ethically speaking Bubba is correct. I wouldn't personally recommend a .223 as a deer caliber even though a lot of people here use a .223 or a 22-250. I preferred the '06 for most of my adult life but the last couple of years have switched to its kissin cousin, the .308.My hunting buddy however has used his .243 for most of his adult life and wound up giving it to his daughter (she shot her first deer with it). He bought himself another one and uses it mostly. We have never lost deer because we only take neck shots. It makes you shoot more precisely. The deer usually drop on the spot, and I have found that if we do happen to miss, it's usually a clean miss. We don't worry about wounded deer running off to die.It has been said many times before, shoot the rifle you can comfortably shoot the best with and as Bubba said above pay close attention to shot placement.Another good thing about neck shots is one doesn't destroy the shoulders.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Del in KS,To say the least this buck acted like he thought he was hid or something because he didn't even flinch until about the 3rd or 4th shot. That's why my brother kept shooting it. He thought he was missing the deer. It was like the deer didn't even feel it. Then after 3 or 4 shots he took off for parts unknown. I had the same thing happen to me about 10 years before that. I had a new friend with me and I was shooting a new Model 70 featherweight .270 Win. This was about 1960. I spotted a buck standing in the shade about 75 yds away. I dropped to the sitting position and let one fly. To our amazement the deer never even flinched. I shot again, and again, and finally before I could shoot the next shot his knees buckled and down he went. My friend said "remind me never to buy one of those 270's, I thought you said they were good?" I had no answer. But there were three nice holes in the deer about an inch apart. You tell me why this critter didn't go down or run. It's another unexplainable reaction of wild game I guess. It appeared perfectly healthy. Believe me, the gun was good. I killed lots of bucks in those days. That gun was a real sweetie as long as I wasn't shooting at a paper target. I didn't pay that much attention to the details of bullet performance in those days. The bullets sometimes would blow up before getting to the animal if you hit a twig or some grass or whatever, or they would blow a large exit hole in them sometimes. It was somewhat erratic. Other times the performance was good. I was younger and less experienced in the realm of bullet construction. When I saw an antelope blown in half by a 7mm Mag and only a thin piece of hide holding the two parts together I knew then that I had to look for a reliable bullet. Last year I shot the Hornady Interbond and Swift A-frame and experienced wonderful results in 270WSM. This year it will be Barnes TSX in the same caliber. Thanks for your input Del.

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

CUP PSI what ever!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

IshawooaThe harder the bullet, the higher the CUP will be!

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I don't have a strain gauge and do like the performance of Barnes bullets. However given the same powder charge, case, primer, and rifle it appears to me that the signs of higher (not excessive) pressure are more evident with a Barnes XXX than more conventionally constructed bullets. I have a theory about this but cannot substanciate it. Has anyone else ever noticed this phenomenon or is it just myobservation and/or imagination?

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

BA,Did that buck just stand there and let the guy shoot him 5 times?I've never seen a deer shot once that did not either drop or run at the shot.

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from Del in KS wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave and the gang.To date six deer have been shot with my 6mmX284 Win using Nosler 85 gr partitions at 3500 fps from 30 out to 240 yds. Only one bullet stopped in the deer and it penetrated from the chest to the hip bone after demolishing the heart and lungs. My gun had a 1 in 12" twist 26" Shilen barrel and would not stabilize a heavier bullet. Most 6's and 243's, are 1 in 10" or less. I read someplace that the resulting higher RPM's of a faster twist barrel can cause a bullet to react more violently. Could that account for guys having different experiences with same bullet?BTW that was a max. load and it was chonographed on my Ohler mod 35. Never should have let Ray Smith (the builder) talk me into the 1 in 12" barrel.Sold the gun last fall to raise $ for the Kimber 2506 that I dearly love.

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from Trae B. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave next time you go moose hunting invite me.If I had money you wouldent believe how much i'd pay to go moose hunting.I dont even want to kill one I just want to get one in my cross-hairs then i'd be happy.

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from tay wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Winchester XP3's have never let me down but I've never killed anything bigger than whitetail deer.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dr. RalphYou got to be kidding, right?Federal 30-06 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips are absolutely the best medicine on whitetail under 100 yards? C’mon Doc, that bullet is just getting started! Why do I have so many excellent results out of a Hornady 130 grain soft point out of my 30-06 from Jackrabbits to mule deer as far out as 600 yards

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from Clay Cooper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Remington Bronze point, the original ballistic tip!

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Jim in Mo.In Oklahomo, any .22 centerfire is acceptable. Ergo; my .22 Hornet is legal! I have killed a deer with it! Bullet performance was exceptional. He stopped at about 35 yards and looked away from me. I slipped that 45 gr Sierra FBSP behind his left ear. He never even wiggled. I did not recover the bullet, but the experience expounded to me the importance of bullet "placement"! I DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT suggest the .22 Hornet for a body shot! As far as that goes, IMHO, if you're going to shoot a .244 caliber, shoot at least a 100 grain bullet. I would suggest this as the bottom limit for "deer" caliber!I know, I know, lots of folks out there hunt with the .223 and the .22-250 and the like. I still think the .244 and a 100 grain bullet is the bottom end!Bubba

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Federal 30-06 150 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips are absolutely the best medicine on whitetail under 100 yards... they all work if you hit them right, but I used the cheapest Winchester soft points (power points?) forever and finally lost one deer I hit twice. It was a buck so I got mad and broke up with them. Partitions never knocked a deer down in it's tracks for me and the Remington core-lokts have had spotty accuracy in my guns at best. Hornady SST's have dropped every deer I've hit with them within ten yards but I still prefer Ballistic Tips. I'm too old to crawl around on my knees up a hollow looking for blood.

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from Jim in Mo. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Gary, John R.,In my home state of Mo. the conservation dept. people at one time in the 80's had a discussion about putting a minimum caliber on hunting whitetail. They never could agree so it remains any centerfire cartridge.Not making any assumptions here good or bad. Any ideas?

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from John R wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Sometimes the manufacturers make a great bullet and discontinue it. Winchester made a great 64 grain, .223 bullet called the Power Point Plus. It is or was rated CXP2 (for deer) on the box and it works. I shot a large Whitetail buck with my AR-15 that was chasing 3 does and stopped when I grunted at him. He was only 30 yards away. I shot him in the neck and because of the angle the bullet traveled through the neck and stopped just under the hide on his armpit. I have the bullet. It retained 75% of its weight (45 gr.). Oh yeah, the deer dropped in his tracks with no thrashing. I wouldn't shoot deer 150 yards away with the .223, but shot placement plus a good bullet makes a big difference. It is legal to use the .223 in my state also.

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from Gary wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I once helped field dress a deer that had been shot with a 60 grain Nosler Partition fired from a 223. It was a perfect heart shot, and the bullet liquified all the vital organs.Before anyone ask, this took place in a state that allows the use of the .22 caliber bullets.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Just had to play the washing machine part, huh, KJ?Bubba

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Well, BA, I'd have to say a large, big-boned coyote. I'm of the opinion that a deer is too big for a .243, even one loaded with NPs. Now - that'll get the howls flying.

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from ishawooa wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Most of my shooting for hunting has been accomplished utilizing .17 to .338 employing the majority of the brands and types of bullets that Dave mentioned. I previously recounted that I have also had very good success on long range shots with Berger VLD bullets. To assist in gaining the high BC these projectiles are physically long and may cause seating problems with magazine rifles so one needs to do a little measuring prior to loading up a bunch. Spectacular one shot kills are the norm. If I had to select only one bullet it would be the Scirocco just because I have repeatedly had or have seen very predictable results. This in no way faults the Partition which is as good now as it was decades ago when we thought it was absolutely the best. On the other hand my unscientific and totally unverified assessment of which bullet is used by most guys and gals to kill the majority of big game in Wyoming and Montana each year is just like I have said before...whatever is on sale at Walmart.I can't speak for African large game but I do know lots about shooting stumps, rocks, hay bales, washing machines, old cars, and stacks of books with the larger calibers. Due to a percieved general lack of interest I will not go into details about the results of these shots.

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from JasonB wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have shot three deer with the Remington 165 grain Core-Lokt in .30-06. All three dropped in their tracks. They suit me just fine.

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from Bubba wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

The only deer I ever killed with a Nosler partition had a .277 entry wound and a .277 exit wound. The shot,(braggingly) was perfectly placed, BUT the deer didn't go down and ran directly AT me. When I reloaded and raised my rifle, he saw me and turned at about 5 yards. The next round was a Texas heart shot, through the pelvis that flipped him over, spun him around and slammed him down on the ground. The second round? Entry, .277, exit .277! It was a 160gr Nosler Partition I had loaded for mulies in Colorado.I now shoot, without exception, Sierra 130gr BTSP in my .270 and have yet to have one fail when I do my part and put it (the bullet) where it's 'post ta be!It's still marksmanship guys. The best bullet, misplaced, means a trail job!Bubba

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

KJ....Just what kind of a large, big boned animal is a .243 cal (6mm)95 gn Partition designed to kill? If I considered a bullet marginal on a deer, I surely wouldn't try it on anything larger.In those days, the 70's, we had trouble with 130 gn Sierras blowing up on a blade of grass. We wanted a reliable bullet. We hadn't discovered Hornadys for some reason. After giving up on Partitions, we discovered the Speer Hot Cores and the wonderful Grand Slam and never looked back. Since then I've had pretty good luck other Nosler designs like the Solid Base Boattail, and the Accubond. And of course Dave named a myriad of others. Thanks for the input.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

That should read "180 gr. Remington Core-Loct .30-06 bullet." I don't want to create the impression that I threw my rifle at her from 80 paces and achieved near complete penetration.That would be a good trick, though.

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from KJ wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

From Beekeeper:"Problems usually arise when we ask a bullet to do something we shouldn't."I agree, and would add to that it only makes sense to match the bullet with the prey. Premium bullets are constructed for tough-skinned and big-boned game animals. They'll work on deer, but that isn't what they are made for. And bullet failure happens sometimes. I shot a big doe one year at 80 paces. She was quartered away and the 180 gr. Remington Core-Loct .30-06 entered her right side just behind the rib cage and lodged under the skin on her left side, right behind the shoulder. She dropped on the spot, but there was no exit. I expected complete penetration. Still, she was very dead.

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from Beekeeper wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I have been a big fan of Nosler Bullets for over 25 years. I have shot game at distances ranging from just off the end of the barrel to 300 yards with Partitions, Ballistic Tips, and the old Solid Base. I have learned a bit about thier stregths and limitations. With the exception of the early Ballistic Tips which were a bit on the fragile side (since corrected) they all perform as suggested. Problems usually arise when we ask a bullet to do something we shouldn't.The extreme cases of bullet failure I have seen have been on animals at close range (less than 50 yards). When we drive bullets at high velocity and they strike semisolids (Animals) they tend to do the things we hope they won't.I once shot a feral hog of about 250 pounds in the pump works with a 165 grain Ballistic Tip launched from an '06 at 2750 fps. The hog was 15 yards. The bullet exploded, but the hog died in its tracks. A week later I put the same load into another similar sized hog at 120 yards and the pass through killed a another hog standing 5 yards behind it.I shot an average sized whitetail through the shoulders at 20 yards with a 100 grain Barnes X spat from a 25/06. Impact velocity was over 3100 fps. The petals sheared off under the hide on the entrance side while the shank plowed through leaving a pencil sized exit wound. The deer died within sight.The most miserable job of tracking I ever had came about one rainy eve when my Dad put a 150 grain Partition from a .308 through an average buck at 10 paces. The buck made it 100 yards through greenbrier and heavy brush before expiring. The bullet did what John Nosler designed it to do. The front core blew up and the rear core pushed through. The bucks chest looked like a bomb had gone off inside, leaving only a pencil sized exit wound. Not a bad bullet, just a bad situation!Don't expect a 95 grain lead cored bullet at 3000 plus to stay together when it wacks an animal on the far end of a basketball court...Five rounds through the chest at 150 yards... that's a tough deer even with solids...!Nosler keep building them and I will keep shooting them.

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from BA wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

Dave,As a veteran I resent the implication of this column. I will always call a spade a spade. In the 70's I was looking for a bullet that at high velocity wouldn't blow up on a deers hide and make a big mess of it. Jim Carmichael touted the Nosler Partition to such an extent as being the holy grail of bullets, so I tried some 95 gn partitions in 6mm Rem. They grouped nicely. When I shot my first buck with them at 30 yards, with nothing but thin air between it and me, the bullet's front core blew up on the hide and the rear core bounced around inside the deer and ended up under the skin on the same side I shot him on. Well it killed the deer alright, but upon inspection I looked for the exit hole. There was none. I want a bullet to go straight through, not become unstable and go awry. My brother shot a large buck through the rib cage 5 times at about 150 yds with 165 gn 30-06 partitions. We found the buck about 500 yards away from where it was shot. No expansion was evident. Everyone was laughing and asked him when he was going to buy a real rifle. If this isn't bullet failure I guess I don't know what bullet failure is. I hope the partition lovers of this column can accept my criticism of the partition as one mans opinion. To me the proof is in the pudding. I come from a long line of hunter/reloaders. That's why I always test bullets and loads on game, before establishing an opinion. You can talk bad about the bullets I love but don't you dare spit on my FLAG.

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from B. Cameron wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I'm sure they're fabulous bullets. Amazing loads. Incredible cartridges overall.However, I can't justify a box of .270Win Winchester XP3 at $41.99 (Cabela's online) when I can get a box of .270Win Remington CoreLokt for $15.99 at my local gun shop.Maybe I'm missing something here... but if I'm doing my part (i.e., shooting within my limits and placing it well), isn't it just throwing dollar bills down the barrel?

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from Jason N. wrote 6 years 6 weeks ago

I shot my last two elk with 150 gr. Sciroccos from my 7mm. First one passed through leaving a first sized exit wound(shot in back of neck at close to 100 yards). Second went through two rib bones and nicked backbone and recovered under hide on off shoulder at 75 yards. Probably 80 percent of bullet left as squished mushroom. Elk only went ten steps after hit. Have not had a chance to try on deer yet.

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