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ZUMBOMANIA, PART II: David E. Petzal responds to your comments

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February 23, 2007

ZUMBOMANIA, PART II: David E. Petzal responds to your comments

By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily

As has been pointed out by those of you with long memories, I wrote a piece 13 years ago about the then-looming assault rifle ban. The story was unpopular with a lot of people, but nowhere in it did I endorse the ban, as some are claiming. I note that none of you have seen fit to haul up the many, many times I’ve said critical things about Senators Clinton, Schumer, Feinstein, and of course our beloved former President Bubba. But then it seems that most of you who are visiting here don't read this blog, or Field & Stream, or what I've written to defend the Second Amendment over the years.

Here’s some other relevant information: When I wrote it, black guns were not nearly as important a part of shooting as they are now. We can’t afford to sacrifice them, just as we can’t afford to sacrifice .50-caliber rifles (which I wrote about positively a couple of issues ago in a story called “Way Out There”).

In case you’re wondering, I’ve been using black rifles since 1965, when I hunted woodchucks with one of the very first AR-15s sold commercially by Colt. I’ve worked over many a prairie dog town with one AR variant or another, and if Les Baer were to send me one of his rifles (a heavy barrel flattop in .223, please), I would not send it back. I currently own an M1A. I don’t know if that qualifies or not.

Most important, you shouldn’t construe any of this as an apology. It isn’t. But it is the last thing I’m going to say in this space about the Zumbo matter.

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from flintinfrizzen wrote 5 years 29 weeks ago

I realize there is a huge gap in time between my posts on this issue, but I couldn't help noticing the juvenile nature of my above posting (two or three up, I think). I beg your forgiveness, for I've forgotten how others laughed at my bad hearing. If one can't help his situation, why contribute to his hardship? Also, forgive my straying from the topic at hand. A gun, any gun, is a tool that we have the right to own, and only we should be the judges of what specifications we require for whatever purpose.

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from hooka wrote 5 years 33 weeks ago

This is my first time visiting your site and i must say i like it very much.Your message was an interesting read.I will definetly come back here more often!hooka

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from Papper Shredders wrote 5 years 39 weeks ago

They seem so simple, but this kind of organization will help save a lot of time. It can also help you appear more professional and on-the-ball should you ever meet with clients in your home office.

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from flintinfrizzen wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I read this comment elsewhere (I forget where and by whom), but in some situations it fits precisely: "Fighting online is like the special olympics-even if you win, you're still retarded." I know this is a cruel, crude comment, but I couldn't help laughing my a$$ off. #@!* it's starting again! Lord help me!

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from Ron Santarpio wrote 6 years 11 weeks ago

Can you supply reloading info for the Broomhandle Mauser in 30Cal?Bullet dia >308 or is it .309?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 47 weeks ago

Give it a rest, please... you're all preaching united we stand divided we fall and then doing the exact opposite!!!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 47 weeks ago

Remember everyone the man claims he never said this, even though it was printed in black and white in Field and Stream."at some point we must face the fact that an Uzi or an AKM or an Ak-47 should no more be generally available than a Claymore mine or a block of C4 explosive. It is time for these guns to be limited to people with Treasury Department licenses, just as with fully automatic arms. I doubt if anyone would suffer much without assault weapons. Surely, we will suffer with them."-- Column by David Petzal, "Endangered Tradition" column in Field and Stream, June 1994.

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from Brian wrote 6 years 51 weeks ago

Well ladies and gentlemen when I was in grammer school i was taught that all the ammendments of the Constitution of the United states were important not just the ones i like. i do not agree with mr. zumbos comments but i do agree with mr. petzels and want to say when we stop protection of the First Amendment then the Second will be sure to follow.

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from Brian wrote 6 years 51 weeks ago

Well ladies and gentlemen when I was in grammer school i was taught that all the ammendments of the Constitution of the United states were important not just the ones i like. i do not agree with mr. zumbos comments but i do agree with mr. petzels and want to say when we stop protection of the First Amendment then the Second will be sure to follow.

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from tford wrote 7 years 6 days ago

"Gun Nut?" Why would you eaven go there? You and I both know that one word to the anti's from any of you gun writers is "bolld in the water!"Forget the Mia Copa's, and start standing up for ALL gun right's!We do not need any more Nevil Chamberlins in our ranks, we need more Winston Churchill's!Tom Ford

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from Roger Reeves wrote 7 years 4 weeks ago

Man o Man: Will this subject ever end? It's not the type gun I;m afraid of , it's those IDIOTS who use them that bothers me. As for me, I've said, wrote, etc. many things I wish I had not done so. Why not let this Issue of Black guns/Zumbo die and move on to other subjects, such as hunting. As for type of gun to use, I suggest you hunt with what-ever is comfortable for you. I'm a true gun NUT, don;t want all the guns, just one of each. Also, if the readers on this bog don;t like what is stated by Dave, for gods sake read something you do agree with in another magazine or screen. For past month, all we have read and written is bitching about someone's opinion, don;t each of us have a opinion?Roger

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from tford wrote 7 years 4 weeks ago

At this juncture in firearms history, when we have every rabid anti gun fool in Congress, why would you come out against any firearm?Winston Churchill once said "an appeaser is one who feeds the aligator, hoping he will eat him last."Your either on our side, or yur not, make up your mind!tford

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from Jonas wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Fifty Caliber Institute AlertMarch 8, 2007Illinios Passes "Assault Weapons Ban" Out of Committee:Hot on the heels of the introduction of .50 ban legislation in NJ, the state of Illinois, yesterday, passed out of Senate committee a bill of its own banning the caliber.SB16, Chicago Mayor Daley's "Assault Weapons Ban" legislation can now move to the Illinois Senate for a vote at any time. The bill would require Illinois citizens to register a huge list of firearms (rifles and shotguns) with the state police and prohibit future ownership.Included in the ban are .50 BMG caliber target rifles, .50 BMG caliber ammunition, and large capacity ammunition magazines of any caliber. Prohibiting the sale, transfer, and ownership, Illinois residents would have 90 days to register them or face felony charges. Manufacture of a .50 BMG caliber firearm or .50 BMG caliber ammunition is prohibited. (You will no longer be able to reload your own .50 ammo!)Exceptions were granted to military & law enforcement, the movie industry, and competitions held only at the Sparta IL shooting complex.The caliber banned is any .50. Exceptions are granted only for firearms defined as "antique" by United States Code 18, Section 921(a) (16).The bill was passed out of the Senate Public Health Committee on Wednesday March 7. What's particularly onerous about all this is that, while those in favor of the legislation were allowed to testify for the bill, NO ONE was allowed to testify against it, under the orders of Committee Chairman Susan Garrett.Apparently the last shreds of freedom have finally been torn from the fingers of Illinois residents.Firearms owners in Illinois, .50 caliber or otherwise, should IMMEDIATELY contact their legislators and recover their constitutional rights.Details of the bill can be found here: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/default.aspYou can find your Senator's contact information here: http://www.ilga.gov/senate/Do it today, before the knock at your door.Fifty Caliber Institutewww.fiftycal.org

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from Gig wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I value thecorrespondence I get from people back home in Wisconsin, and Iwould like to take this opportunity to address your concerns.As you may know, H.R. 1022, the Assault Weapons Banand Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007, was introduced byRepresentative Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) on February 13, 2007.This legislation would reinstate the federal ban on the sale ofcertain semi-automatic assault weapons. This prohibition, whichwas originally passed as part of the Violent Crime Control andLaw Enforcement Act of 1994, expired on September 30, 2004.I agree that the right of law abiding Americans to own agun should be protected. However, laws prohibiting felons andother potentially dangerous individuals from owning guns arereasonable and effective ways to reduce violent crime in ourcommunities. In the past, the Senate has considered a variety ofgun safety measures. I carefully evaluate each of these proposals,and I only support gun control legislation that corresponds to twoimportant principles. First, I do not believe we should deprive lawabiding gun owners, particularly hunters and target shooters, oftheir Second Amendment rights. Second, I only support proposalsthat I believe will unquestionably make our communities safer.H.R. 1022 has been referred to the House Committee on theJudiciary. Similar legislation has not yet been introduced in theSenate. I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind should thislegislation be considered by the Senate.Again, thank you for contacting me. I appreciate hearingfrom you.Sincerely,Herb KohlU.S. Senator

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from Blckhrn wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

http://forums.gunbroker.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4 Zumbo was right.GET OVER IT NUTBALLS

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Good job Mike, Yea that is ironic. But don't think about putting a folder on that 10-22 thats an "Evil" feature. The peasants are not worthy. Sad isn't it. If any of this legislation gets over on us, firearms R & D work will die out. Wm Stojack

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from Mike Diehl wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Thanks Wm.I sent in my NRA app form & fee today just to stand with you guys... even though as it turns out HR1022 exempts .22cal rimfire from the magazine capacity limit. Ironic name for that bill don't you think?Wish the Mini 30 came in a Mini .30-06.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Hi Mike, The "word" on the street here is that the Zombies are now wearing goalie masks, fritz helmets & body armor. So I guess that the bottom line is use what you feel best with. And in the latest legislation (HR 1022) both those items would be banned anyway. Heck, the folks in Cal can't have bayonet-lugs ,( there was that rash of drive-bys with them a few years back in Fresno )So your choice is up to you. For now. Wm Stojack

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from Mike Diehl wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

I'm a "Fudd" kind of guy who also totally supports "EBR" firearms ownership. I have a serious question ('tho I'm trying to bring out the humour in all this) for the "EBR" crowd.What's the attraction? If you ever needed to repel an Undead Hoard, wouldn't a .22LR semiauto like the 10/.22 with, say, four or five preloaded 50 round magazines and a low power scope serve your needs better?

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from Lloyd wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago
from Steve Holsten wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

http://216.22.2.74/cgi-local/ffa2.cgi?noframes Second Amendment Gun Shop'sdie Volkenwaffen Kammer"The Peoples Armory"

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

BinzWoW! That was a well written disertation. Not that I agree with very much of it but well written none the less. Excuse me for being somewhat more brief in my reply.Having been around the world more than just a few times and having the seen first hand the results of facist's and other classes of despots I have a somewhat different view of things. Your's is more than just a little niave (I probably mispelled that but I really don't care). Before you talk about US not tortouring people in WWII you should really talk to some of the fine gentlemen who served in that era. There are about 1 Billion people in the world that would love nothing better than to cut your head off with a dull knife. They could care less about rights freedoms and what not. The only thing that matters to them is impossing Sharia on the world. They are well positioned in this country allready and when they decide to kick it off you won't have the luxury of whining into your Wash Post. The only thing they understand is brute force. Unfortuantely America has probably seen her zeinith and she's not going to go down with a crash. It's going be a slow and lingering thing. We're seeing the first signs right now. PC armchair commentators forcing our troops to fight with ludicrous rules of engagement against an enemy that won't even adhere to the low standards of engagement that our Nazi foes followed in WWII. And by the way some of the members of the "Greatest Generation" tortoured the $h!t out some Nazi's if the situation demanded it. But that's just my 2 cents.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Bobby, Glad you are here to express your opinion. Is there any other point you care to express ? So All of these folks that disagree with your stand are now lumped in a big pile with Pot Pol etc. I read your post twice , but I still cannot see where you are coming from on some of your statements. Obviously you are entitled to them. But they seem to have the feel to them that you also take exception to from others ? I thought that Dave just posted a new column on barrel length ? So the censorship is where ? I have not called for much of anything from Dave____ Wm Stojack

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from bobby binzer wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

AIRFORCE, I made a mistake.I looked again and I saw you were not the person with the inane demand for an 'appology' (there seems to be several of those in here).I see now that as my browser loads slowly, I got parts of the column of comments, and your name on your post appeared at the bottom. I thought it was you. I'm sorry.But dang, kind of shot myself in the foot, didn't I, railing on you sounding just like some of the fools I was railing against.Oh but you 'Dave you traitor-this' and 'Dave you traitor-that' twits are not off the hook. Don't even think it extends to there. That kind of stuff is beyond foolishness.binz

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from bobby binzer wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

The people here love to play with the bigness of their littleness.So esoteric a discussion, so passionate about so very little.I'm a gun owner, but I can't understand for the life of me why so many insist on minutiae as if their own definition of being depended on it.So many here exalt and split hairs over the bathwater and have no clue about the baby.And for those who simply cannot ever resist bringing up Clinton (either male or female) -- Go get a real life. It's well into 2007 now. Hello -- where have you been for most of the past decade? Time to grow up and move on. Didn't we get our black rifles back? Like, the better part of a decade ago?I don't give a hoot about getting my black rifles back.I want my habeas corpus back. And my privacy. And my sense of American decency that went along with knowing that we didn't torture people, no matter the situation or how heinous the crime of the war criminal. Because that's what fascists did. And Stalin's men. And we weren't like that. But not any more.But all the black rifles and Barret sniper rifles didn't seem to deter that from going away.What's the use of a thirty round now-legit pre-ban magazine if you are thrown in a jail without charges or access to counsel or ability to face your accusers? Oh, I've heard it before: Sticking someone's head in a wet bag until they think they are drowning isn't really torture. It's just 'harsh interrogation'. No more than frat-boy hijinks. Sure it is.I think the hi-cap sunset was a pacifier thrown to those most susceptible to this insidious rot. I think it worked, too.But wait! If you're white and Christian, why worry? Only culprits need fear. Herr Himmler said that himself.I'm glad I read this article and these comments. I'm glad the author had the integrity to say what he had to say.It's so revealing that being even nowhere near pro-gun lopsided is now so often seized upon as being somehow akin to treason. Dave even felt the need to defend himself -- "In case you’re wondering, I’ve been using black rifles since 1965". Please stop that, Dave. It detracts from the courage it took you to take your position, and does nothing for those who attack you. Do not apologize to fools. They will jump on you for even an extremely mild case of objectivity.Dave please stop defending your position against people who have no desire for critical thinking, have no desire other than to see things in black and white, and have no respect for differing viewpoints fairly presented. Calling you a Quisling is a cheap insult; it's an attack, and a cowardly one at that. It's easy to throw anonymous spitwads from the back of a big room.They're gonna hate you for even your *thinking* about being even-handed. Which incidentally, as you knew and tried to point out, you weren't. Not especially. You were able to take a temporary objective view. But Dave you are dealing with a readership of very conservative people. A hypocritical sleight-of-hand conservatism, as conservatism now is in reality radical. Both fascism and communism in the '30s were radical. I'd be surprised if you haven't gotten any death threats from this stuff (as silly and trivial and ridiculous and petty as this whole subject seems). After all, you already were compared here in the comments to a fascist traitor -- and keep in mind what happened to ol' Vidkun. And we all know what they do to traitors. Thus to tyrants, and all that.Well poor Dave. You are probably now learning that anything remotely approaching objectivity is a no-no (and you sure as heck weren't skewed toward them gun-bannin' libruls -- you made it very clear on that score) but alas, to no avail. No effort is extreme enough when you are dealing with extremists.Stupid stunted shriveled rightwing authoritarians.How else can one explain what's behind this veiled threat of a post of "Thanks a lot, Dave. Quisling then, Quisling now."?Vidkun Quisling was the name of a Norwegian who played the willing puppet to his Fascist masters. And for those Google-impaired Fox News readers, please look up 'fascist'. It's not the same as you've been told. Is about as far away from liberalism or New Deal as it is from Goldwater conservatism. But not too far from what's going right... um.. shh. Hate to get called a traitor. Nasty business. People like to act out on it, think they're Lord Protectors of the Realm and all that. Defenders of Democracy. Patriots. And they don't have worry about volunteering to go to Iraq. That can get messy, crimp one's lifestyle. Or just crimp one's life. Taking a baseball bat to my mailbox or threatening my wife is so easy. No real danger, no real sacrifice. Just like those "support the troops" yellow ribbons on those SUVs. For a dollar ninety-nine, apparently one can buy immunity to the irony.Say, why are we in Iraq? Can't be about oil. I know Cheney still says Saddam was behind 9\11 and all that, but everyone else in the world, including the 9\11 Commission, says that's soap bubbles. Saudis flew those planes. Fifteen of the 19. More than three quarters. They own more than three quarters of the oil, too. None came from Iraq. None from Iran. None were based in Iraq. Nor Iran. None had any connection with Iraq. None with Iran. Even Cheney really knew. That's why Scooter Libby now has to go to jail.Smile when you fill up your SUV. That dollar ninety-nine fake yellow ribbon is a bargain, if that's all Iraq cost you.Oh. So sorry. Traitorous of me, wasn't that? Undermining the War effort and all that.Say, why are we in Iraq?Well I'm a traitor, too, Dave. Been called that before, 4 years before, just for the attempt at objectivity. Only now it looks like I was one of the few who wasn't the fool, the only one who didn't betray.I still believe in America, but it's America as what it was.We don't torture. And we don't start wars with people who don't attack us. And we don't spy on citizens. And we don't throw American citizens into jail without charges or trials or even seeing a lawyers. Even if they are from the poorest families, with checkered backgrounds or past records, we still believe in innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. And we don't torture anyone. Period. Neither Nazis nor Commies nor enemy non-combatants nor enemy combatants. We don't torture political prisoners, or those under suspicion, or those caught red-handed, or those who are like the Jeffry Dahmers, or the Ted Bundys, or the Mansons, nor do we torture the sick, the deranged, the murderers, the mass-murderers, the monsters, the psychos or the truly evil. Because torturing people is what the truly evil do.Except that we do. Now we do. Just like the Stalinists, just like the fascists. Just like Pol Pot. Just like Pinochet.But I am no doubt a traitor.I suspect the commenter in question who called you a Quisling is most unwilling to face the possibility of projection. Usually when someone implies "fascist", you know you are hearing from the same.Dave you played it professional, with your own voice and your own take, without pandering and without pretending you had no voice or take on it either. And from this blog I can tell so many hate you for it.Recall in 1933 Germany any but the most extreme were denounced by passing gangs of Brownshirts as being not extreme enough.Well Brownshirts and Brownshirt-wannabees, go clutch your black rifles. Fat lot of good it did. You people are the living embodiment of the most persuasive argument why the 2nd Amendment is outdated and useless.Yah, OK "AIRFORCE" (guess you never hear of lowercase letters, huh?) I hear your bleating: "Most of us just want Mr. P to acknowledge his support for the original AWB and appologize for insulting us."Like expressing a differing opinion is insulting? Why is it insulting to you personally? Why should Dave apologize to you -- because you simply didn't agree with what he wrote? Will it make you sleep better? Make you feel more secure? What do you hope to gain by an apology? If this isn't your own personal powertrip, then why should you care?However, I certainly won't diss AIRFORCE for not knowing how to spell apologize. Nope. Sorry, wouldn't stoop that low to someone addicted to UPPERCASE for his online NAME.Oh. 'Scuze me. I was SHOUTING there for a minnit. BOLD NOISE MEANS I WIN, I suppose.But let me say it seems to diminish your argument, AIRFORCE, that Dave provide you with an 'appoligy'. After all, why should he 'appoligize' to you for his not sharing your precise and exact same sentiments? It's not like you hold yourself to similar exacting and precise standards -- hey, you didn't spell 'apology' exactly and precisely, even when you wanted to.I'd hope Dave has as much reason to concern himself to 'appoligize' to you for his failure to split hairs and reassure you on subtle differences between his and YOUR opinion as you have reason to concern yourself with your failure to split hairs and make subtle differences between 'appoligy' and 'appology'.Really, dude. It's amazing to hear someone demand an apology when you can't even spell it. You really want me to believe you understood what Dave was talking about?I love my guns, love having the right to own them; hate the gunnut stupidity that makes it hard to argue otherwise.So many of the people commenting here are our own worst enemies. Danged if these people can't see that. Danged if these people won't see why they provide a good argument as to why the 2nd amendment is no longer of any use. Danged if they don't provide the best possible ammunition for why people should see them as fixated on the same beetles crawling on the same bark of a single tree while utterly oblivious to the entire forest.But I'm pretty sure I know what the people here call people who worry about the forest. Tree huggers.Half this country has a good argument against everything most of these commenters go nuts over. And everytime most of the people here open their mouths, they just dig themselves in deeper.Fifty-fifty ain't good odds.Thanx a bunch. Really. I like owning my firearms. So thanx a bunch. You people really were a big help.

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from Randy wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Why, should you be treated any different then Jim.Stand down, no second chance.

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from Randy wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Why, should you be treated any different then Jim.Stand down, no second chance.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Airforce,People are pretty calm now. Even when this all started and this page was getting like 4 hits a minute there were some strong words and some of the dialog was a little over the top but most of it centered on the issue at hand. If you actually go through and read it all there are allot of instances were people found out they weren't that far apart after all. Most of us just want Mr. P to acknowledge his support for the origional AWB and appologize for insulting us. He doesn't have to loose his livelyhood like some people in the EBR industry did as a result of what he contribuuted to.G/UK

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from AIRFORCE wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Follow along everyone....................breath in.................exhale..............breath in................exhale..............AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH. Seriously calm down. Are you all just a bunch of head hunters wanting blood. If you don't shut up now you will kill this man's career. Do you all want that on your heads. This mans job is to envoke thought and response. He's doing his job. No doubt you have said stupid things that you wish you could take back. No wonder he hasn't responded to any of it. Keep on keepin on Dave.

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from elmer wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

The 2A isn't about hunting it's about gun ownership. Got it. No right to hunt, therefore no right to hunt with EBR. As was mentioned earlier States have been deciding legal hunting implements for years.One thing to keep in mind, not having 2A protection the hunting crowd is much more vulnerable when it comes to anti-hunting legislation, much of which is public referendum vote. That's why image becomes so important. When we lose public support, we lose hunting privledges, such as hunting with an EBR. Which isn't an attack on 2A rights, so we've been told.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

I just got a sweet Bulgee AK-74 (semi-auto) in trade. I'm trying to decide between leaving it in 5.45 and just using it for a blaster or convert it to 6.5G or 6.8 SPC and take up deer hunting again. BTW I support Panther Arms in their right to make command decisions based upon the feedback from their customer base but like I said earlier I think old Zumbo took enough of a beating on this. It might have been late but he did fully acknowledge that he was wrong and appologize. I would speculate he is in a financial situation where he could have just said FYT and retired. Instead he's making an effort to make things right. I heard he's actually going to attend a top notch tactical course and pen an article for SWAT magazine.Oh and Bill if things go well this summer I'm going to get finger printed, have my background check done, sign away all my protections from illegal serch and seizure and drop a paycheck to get my class III manufacturer's permit. It'd be nice if the ATF gave some of that money to help out conservation but they claim to need it. I'll let you know when it comes in you'll have to bring "the ole man" down for some full auto silenced goodness. Still say this site needs emotocons.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

I for one laud both Greg & Mark for their rational discourse. Nice change isn't it? Still no response to the questions I posed to Alex. Take your time. It seems as though we don't have just a "gap" in thinking. Are we not here to narrow this down? Lets go with some facts ! And how do we help ourselves? Do we go foreward or ? The last thing anyone needs is a replay of '68, '86, '94 , etc. I think that part of the component that resulted in those laws was ignorance and "scare tactics"But that said, maybe as some have pointed out, the vote with our dollars is even more effective than our electoral vote. And we have a means of communication that was only a dream then , the Net. ____Wm Stojack

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from Mark wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dirtcrashr's quoting of Petzal's 1994 anti "military" diatribe shows just what all hunters and gun enthusiasts need to fear. A person posing as a man on our side saying what we use/like or want is wrong. What more does an anti need than "our own kind" saying we are wrong? Find a new line of work Petzal- I think the Brady group might hire you.

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from Greg wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I've noticed that Alex Pohl (much like his preferred author Petzal) can't seem to make an argument without attacking his opponent (a favored liberal tactic). Calling somebody who wishes to own an AR-15 a Rambo of America is pretty cheap, disingenuous and low class. You admitted you're "ill-informed" about the legality of these weapons yet feel free to post comments on whether they should be legal or not and cannot understand why somebody might get upset when you attempt to take away their 2A rights.Referring to these weapons as "various tactical toys" is not an attempt to elevate the discourse and is simply another slam on AR gun owners instead of any attempt to discuss the matter or learn something.Opining that a person who owns an AR would somehow be happier living in Iraq, Afghanistan or some other 3rd world country where they would need armored cars and AK-47's simply because they wish to own an AR is a ludicrous and asinine argument that serves only to further insult your opponents instead of trying to discuss this civilly with them.And posting that people who disagree with Zumbo's and Petzal's statements would like to live in those same countries so they could issue fatwas against anyone who disagrees with them is ignorant, asinine and reprehensible.You claim that the NRA issued fatwas (those are religious orders to kill somebody in a holy war) against Jim Zumbo. You have libeled the NRA with what proof??You talk about the need for rational arguments instead of body armor and firepower, then post such ludicrous and libelous statements. Exactly how do you think your "irrational" statement is going to solve anything?

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from Greg wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Nuge just posted this on his forum yesterday so DPMS' action is confirmed (see quote below). Nugent referred to all of this incident with Zumbo, Petzal and himself (Nugent) as 2A insanity. He's right.There are many gun owners and hunters who do not like certain weapons and therefore do not support their ownership. These same people then get mad when the affected gun owners get mad about having their 2A rights trashed (so to speak) by fellow gun owners and hunters.Instead of admitting that we ALL need to support ALL aspects of the 2A, this minority is continuing to argue that their opinion is a valid one that should have no repercussions from AR-15 owners, etc.Essentially, Petzal, Zumbo and their supporters want to have freedom of speech yet shout down the rest of us for attempting to exercise that same right and are also demanding freedom from the consequences of their speech. This double standard simply isn't going over well with AR-15 owners and other 2A supporters who believe it encompasses all weapons and not just select "hunting" weapons.At some point, ALL gun owners, hunters and even fishermen need to realize we either band together and support each others' rights or face being divided, conquered (politically) and losing some if not all of our rights to own firearms, bows, fishing tackle and to hunt and fish with them."My BloodBrothers, I have never asked for personal assistance on my own behalf, however, DPMS Panther Arms claim they are getting hammered by the antigunners amongst us (lunatic fringe for sure) to abandon any relationship with me or my TV show for my stand to upgrade Jim Zumbo into a pro-DPMS rifle guy. HUH!!! Unbelievable for sure, but the cannibals amongst us are beyond xplanation. I respectfully request any of you who care, to write a brief, POLITE note to DPMS boss Randy Luth via Sasha at NugentUSA@cs.com, with your take on my standing up to educate upgrade & recruit JZ & his Nugely discovered 2nd Amendment absolutism. Ya with me? ASAP plz!! Brief & POLITE! HITIT! Happy shootemup weekend![This message has been edited by NUGE (edited 03-02-2007).]"

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I don't know how you managed to deternined that I'm "giddy", over the internet. But that aside, who is it that "i'm treating" , and in what manner? You, the Nuge ? I posted what is taking place according to the TNUSA board, and ? I would think that he has supporters here who could add their voices, and come to his aid with E-Mails etc. And you want ? And "the implosion" is ? Did I mis-state something ? I think not.___Wm Stojack

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from Nugentfan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well Mr. Stojack it would seem that you Sir are giddy with excitement that DPMS threw Nugent under the bus.It's a sad day indeed when a person who's a strident supporter of the 2a and is trying to help another human being gets treated in this manner.DPMS has received a letter from me concerning their lack of decency and testicular fortitude in the matter and I encourage ALL gun owners to do the same.Hopefully another AR manufacturer will step up and offer to help sponsor Ted's show.Let the implosion continue.

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from Jubal wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

In a message dated 2/27/2007 4:59:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindamuller@buchanan.org writes:Dear Brigade,As you know I am also the WebMaster for Jim Gilchrist and the Minuteman Project [MMP]. See below my latest MMP email. I am asking you to forward this email everywhere and ask others to pass it on as well. Upload it to message boards, and post it on websites. We need your help to let the world know about these shameful, greed-driven and downright diabolical conspirators.As always, for the Cause - LindaPS -- Within the last few minutes they also hacked into our MMP website and took control of it - they put up an "under construction" sign. For now, stay tuned to our www.forthecause.us site for MMP news and updates.-----------Dear Minutemen,Yes it is true. Several people who Jim Gilchrist fully trusted have put their pursuit of money and power above the Cause. They conspired to remove Jim Gilchrist as head of the Minuteman Project and insertthemselves in positions of power in the organization.Who are these individuals?Deborah Peterson - AKA Deborah CourtneyMarvin Stewart - a quasi-Minister and government workerBarbara Coe - California Coalition for Immigration ReformI am still stunned. Did they really think that all of us would just roll over and let this happen?See the MMP press release below and please note the following about these three individuals:1. Using stolen passwords they hacked into our Web Servers and changed the passwords for several of our accounts.2. They took control of all our Minuteman Project email addresses. As of right now, all email sent to anyone @minutemanproject.com goes to these corporate raiders. We are forced to use our personal email addresses until this is resolved in court. You can contact us at:Linda Muller [WebMaster] - lindamuller@forthecause.usJim Gilchrist [MMP Founder]- century21minuteman@sbcglobal.netTim Bueler [Media] - media@timbueler.com3. It also looks like they might have stolen our email list. If you, as a member of the Minuteman Project email list, receive email claiming it is from the MMP, from anyone other than me, Tim or Jim, please remember it is bogus.4. They stole over 20,000 pages of our letterhead stationery and envelopes bearing Jim Gilchrist's personal signature. Needless to say if you receive any letters in the mail that seem out of character, you will know they are from this band of devious conspirators.5. As of right now they have been unable to hack into our website - we still have full control over it. Tommy Crenshaw, who manages our system, is keeping watch on it round the clock. He says they are using sophisticated hacking tools to try and break into the Web Server. Thus far he has been able to thwart their incessant attempts to break in. Again, if you notice content on the website that seems out of character, you can assume that they were successful in taking over our website. If that happens, stay tuned to my personal website at www.forthecause.us for updates.For now I just wanted to make sure you know about our email addresses and the stolen stationery so you will not be confused if you are contacted by them. I will be writing up much more on this over the nextfew days and posting it on the www.minutemanproject.com and the www.forthecause.us websites... and also emailing it to several lists.Please help Jim Gilchrist and the Minuteman Project by sending this information across the USA. Post it on websites. Upload it to message boards and chat rooms.I for one will be damned if I will stand quietly by while Deborah Peterson [AKA Deborah Courtney], Marvin Stewart and Barbara Coe try to steal the Minuteman Project from Jim Gilchrist. How about you?As always, For the Cause - LindaAnd still the Minuteman Project Webmaster!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yes Sports-Fans ! Its confirmed! DPMS has pulled out ! It's another one! Might be tough to "Upgrade" this turn of events. You can speak your mind in this country, thats the 1st at work. But, you are the one to take the heat for your opinions . Is this "eating our own"? Or is it "culling the herd of the weak"? Or, what ?---- Wm Stojack

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

There's a thought ! It is for the children, right ?NEWS FLASH, NEWS FLASH ! Will the NUGE take heat for "Upgrading" (whatever that is) "Z-Man"? Seems so. His web site is in an uproar ! Seems a outfit called DPMS-Panther Arms ( Major EBR Mfg.)has announced on it's Homepage that they are dropping sponsorship of the Nuge's TV show. Wow ! There is not a sound of this on the Web , no out cry for Nuges head. They just did it, out of the wild blue !___Wm Stojack

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from Up Grade wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hillary Must be Elected Our Queen!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

And these folks that are feared to be running amok thorough the streets where? When? In my area the Law Enforcement folks would be there in in a heartbeat. As I would expect them too. And in case it has escaped your notice, they are almost as heavily armed as the Military. Because of my "EBRs" ? No, its not. The courts have found , years ago , in a Civil Suit ,that the "police" have no responsibility to protect you, me or anyone else! Do you feel then that the "military" will? Oh, the Gov of your state can use the National Guard , (the real Militia in the 2nd, right!) Call them? No, it's on you. Someone previously mentioned the "LA Riots", more recently "Katrina". I was on the ground for 21 days after "Andrew" is South Fla. Saw a lot of legally armed property owners. There were areas that had not seen LE , Fire, for 4-6 weeks! The "veener of civilization was wearing thin ". But, you could move to the "safe" DC Metro area where the possesion of "Any Firearm" has been banned for years. And there is a 40% higher chance of you being a "gunshot victim " than in Bagdad, today ! Thats based on incidents per 100 K residents. I know that it won't apply to the deer-stand, but the stats are out there , that the simple presence of a firearm PREVENTS, yes PREVENTS untold thousands of violent acts against folks, (like me & you , or our loved ones ) every single year. The reseachers did not mention mode of dress in any of the studies that I'm aware of. I do see local LE in cammies, lots of it the last time I was at the Pro Bass store ! ______Wm Stojack

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from David wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I can't help but notice how all the Fudds seem to be making their "final word" on the subject. Very Liberal of you to do that as that is a common tactic of those who no longer have a valid point to make. You attempt to silence the issue alltogether when you are totally outclassed and out-ed for your lack of knowledge and command of the facts. I sometimes find myself wishing for total gun bans just to see how loud you'll scream when "they" come after "your" hunting/sporting purposes" guns.This whole fiasco was set in motion ny one of your own who skinned HIS ignorance and intolerance for that which he knew knothing about, by his own admission I might add. Petzal has now ever tried denying that which he penned back in 1984 in an effort to save his hide. Hey Petzal, news flash for ya..."WE" know what you said, HOW you said it, and in what context. Put that in your Pigeon Grade and snag the trigger.The 2nd Amendment is about ALL guns, not just a certain few that some Fudd prefers to take out to pick off a few of those deadly skeets that seem to be menacing civilized society. Maybe we need to ban skeets since they serve no useful purpose. Oh, excuse me? They serve to sharpen one's skills at hitting a moving target? Well now, NOBODY really needs to be shooting at a moving target now do they? Unless of course they "might" be planning on executing a terrorist act and that's how they practice to hit people.....like POLICE OFFICERS, with those deadly cop-killer #8 shot loads. Yeah, you CAN kill a man with those damn things. Why on earth would ANY reasonable, rational, thinking, person even want to own one of those evil double barrel shotguns? They are only made for one purpose and that is KILLING something.Are you listening now Fudds???????? Two can play the same game you know. Rest well assured, us black rifle owners will NOT forget where you "really" stand and "WHAT" you really stand for.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Alex,I have to side with SSR where are these ravening bands of hallucinary Phsycos of which you speak? Nobodies saying that Mr. Zumbo or Mr. Petzal shouldn't be able to say what ever they want. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consiquences for what you say. If everyone said "exuse me but I don't agree with you" nobody outside the shooting sports would have heard that and the anti's on top of having a peach peice of propaganda would be able to say "See the shooters in this country agree with them cause nothing happened". I can forgive both of them their comments but unfortuantley the can never be erased. If they were really representative of the shooting comunitty in general they'd have had no issues and nobody would have complained. They weren't however and people have every right under their own 1A freedoms to express that disapproval with the sponsors because they are also the purchasers of these products and contributing to these guys paychecks.

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from David Loeffler wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Good. Enough about Zumbo.

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"I doubt that James Madison would want to see an America sprouting pockets of AR-armed hallucinatory paranoiacs who think they are entitled to don camo fatigues, boots and bandoleros"So now should we ban camo and boots? Again this is basing the argument upon appearances, not action adn function. Are people in camo and boots running through the streets shooting people with ARs? It is not a problem. Why are you using these arguments that are not realistically stating any problem. What about the Ar owners dressed like preppies. Should we just ban ARs for those that pass the dress code?I think the founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing and saying. The 2nd has exactly the meaning today that it had years ago. Armies can be defeated and wiped out. The US will not remain the world power for the rest of time. It will not happen. Our military will remain the most powerful forever.Armies can be wiped out and defeated. Our military could be defeated some day. Then, as a country, we would be naked. The 2nd is to prevent takeover and occupation. If Iraq should teach us anything it's taht even we, as the most powerful military in world history, cannot stay and occupy Iraq indefinitely. We cannot sustain the human, emotional, and finacial costs. And Iraq is some second rate two-bit country. Because when it comes to occupation, it comes down to individual soldiers on the ground with small arms, in patrols. And they can be fought with small arms among other things. If our military is ever wiped out (way past our lifetimes probably), a militia will arise and fight an occupation. The 2nd has teh exact meaning today that it had many years ago. It is to protect the long term survival of the United States as a sovereign country. The purpose is US survival.

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from Alex wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Matt,I must say I feel funny being manoeuvred into taking making the "liberal" argument--I'm not used to it. The 2A is not obsolete; it's just problematical. I doubt that James Madison would want to see an America sprouting pockets of AR-armed hallucinatory paranoiacs who think they are entitled to don camo fatigues, boots and bandoleros and take matters into their own hands every time they have a real or perceived grievance. I believe in the lawful bearer of arms, the "well regulated" militia of the 2A, "well regulated" being the operative expression. And I don't want to see an America where people like Zumbo and Dave Petzal are treated to an inquisitional blacklisting.The people of Al Qaeda, I'm sure, also admire the 2A much more than the 1A. They'd let you have all the tactical weapons you could ever dream of and let you fire on the evil U.S. government and its representatives, and everybody else, to your heart's content. They also deal with dissent in a no-nonesense way that would gladden the hearts of those applauding Mr. Zumbo's treatment and now calling for Mr. Petzal's blood.

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"As for the 2A, when it was written in the late 1780's, America had virtually no standing army. Police were far and few between; criminals probably got away with crimes more often than not; and Indians were still a menace on the frontier. The prevailing weapon was a cumbersome unrifled musket. Are we really expected to believe that nothing has changed?"Yeah, yeah. The same tired argument about times changing, the "living Constitution", etc. That is a lousy ploy used by many liberals to justify policies of theirs that everyone knows are unconstitutional in spades. Last time I read the Constitution, there were NO time limits on various rights and anyone with the slightest legal mind can make an argument that the First, Third, Fourth, etc, Amendments are as outdated as you perceive the Second to be. You don't like assault rifles? Fine, don't own them. You think the Second Amendment is a relic from the Revolution? Good for you. Don't use it. However, I do like assault rifles and believe the Founding Fathers gave us the Second Amendment to guarantee us the rest of the Constitution, so feel free to get off our case. I plan on keeping my assault weapons whether they give you the willies or not.P.S. No need for assault weapons? Where were you after Rodney King? Its sure wasn't in LA.

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from HerbHarry wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal/Zumbo - They do not speak for me.Outdoor Life/Field & StreamsThe is important, get it. I will vote with my dollars. I will not support or use products that contribute to ignorance about 2A issues. If you side with the anti-gunners on these issues it is not about freedom of speech, it is about ideas and fundamental truth. The anti-gunners are attacking us and ignorant and elitist writers like Mr. Petzal and Mr. Zumbo can not be allowed to be our spokesmen. Remember my words if you want my dollars. Petzal needs to retire to. Unfortunately I recognized the elitist nature of this magazine years ago and can't vote with my dollars, but others can.

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To the hunters who do not like black rifles and do not believe that banning them is wrong:It's just ANOTHER RIFLE! IT is not super powerful, or more deadly, or anything else the antis seem to believe. It's just another RIFLE shooting the same old cartridges!Once banning one kind of gun becomes acceptable to the masses, adding more to the list is a very simple process. It is truely incremental. It's JUST ANOTHER RIFLE.People say, well, we ban RPGs and bazookas, so why not "assault weapons". Well, we're NOT TALKING RPGs! We're TALKING RIFLES!

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from NUGE wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

We must upgrade with Jim Zumbo.We appreciate all of those who have made the very valuable contribution of upgrade with Jim Zumbo.We see this as a long-term upgrade.In any event, it’s hard for a name like zumbo not to be an upgrade. It was all about how we can make this UPGRADE together with JIM ZUMBO.We have started to upgrade without the upgrade.There are a few sections we must upgrade for our purposes. We must develop a message to link the major population centers in our BLACK RIFLE Brotherhood CULT. We all need planes, trains and automobiles, and we need them now. JIM ZUMBO knows in his heart felt upgrade brothers.We had to figure out how to put all the pieces together at the other end and boogey woogy the American love fest and the upgraded new JIM ZUMBO.

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from Alex Pohl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

My apologies for the ad hominem venom that I let slip in my previous post. I have a few questions/points to put out there and then I am pretty much through with this matter.The real problem I have with the Zumbo affair is that his (and Mr. Petzal's) detractors are claiming to be defenders of the 2A. The 2A is necessary to protect our liberties. But the most fundamental of liberties was laid out in the 1A. Now, Mr. Zumbo was in the business of opining. Is the whole situation so fragile and perilous, and the skins of those who chafed at Mr. Zumbo's opinions so thin, that the only response is to blacklist him? America is supposed to be a place where we have to tolerate opinions we find obnoxious. The response to his less than discreet remarks on AR's was to declare him a non-person and disregard all that he did well for 40 some years. America is increasingly a country of aggrieved cry-babies who, once offended, call forth the wrath of the gods on the offender. And, may I add, it succeeded so well in this case, not because of high principle, but because Cabelas, Remington and Outdoor Life were worried about money. They knew that what they had on their hands was the fury of an aggrieved, vociferous, and highly organized lobby.Both Mr. Zumbo and Mr. Petzal were/are in the business of writing and opining about hunting guns. F&S and OL were first and foremost about hunting & fishing. There are plenty of other magazines and forums for tactical guns. Neither of them should be run out of town on a rail because of a little dissent or failure to adhere to anybody's reigning orthodoxies. This is not North Korea or Saudi Arabia.As for the 2A, when it was written in the late 1780's, America had virtually no standing army. Police were far and few between; criminals probably got away with crimes more often than not; and Indians were still a menace on the frontier. The prevailing weapon was a cumbersome unrifled musket. Are we really expected to believe that nothing has changed?Many of us have a visceral reaction to AR's and for good reason. The things are meant for one thing only (unlike traditional sporting guns) and that is to kill people. Personally I'd rather see them in the hands of the police and our military than in those of would-be private militia. If I found myself in a crisis situation such as hurricane Katrina with looters menacing my home I could defend it with confidence until the police showed up with my 12 ga. Remington model 1100. When AK-47's are in the hands of anybody who wants them--no questions asked--we have Lebanon, the West Bank, parts of Pakistan, etc. I don't know that this makes a case for outlawing them altogether; but it does warrent a certain scrutiny that tradition sporting guns do not.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Even though I don't hunt any more (hopefully I'll find time to get back into it) I have absolutely nothing against hunters. I never miss an oprotunity to point out to the PETA types I bump into the importance of hunting as a part of overall sound game management and conservation. Most, sadly, don't get it but everyones in a while I'll sway one a little bit. Like I told the one guy a number of posts above when I see someone messing w/ duck hunters about lead shot etc. I get involved because I know the next thing they are coming after is my test range. The only problem I have is with a very small minority amongst the hunting crowd that doesn't see the need for unified defense of the 2A.

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Maybe this article will help end the divide between hunters and shooters.http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/phsar_022707/

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from Perry Brakus wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago
from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yet more well thought out points. And ! No "venom", et al. And those with a contrary view point say ?_____Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have a question for the more strident critics of Mr. Petzal and those who think the right to own assault rifles is sacrosanct. Is it admissible to make any kind of distinction between various sorts of "arms?" Why not contrue the term as used in the 2nd Amendment as including RPG's and Stinger anti-aircraft weapons? Why can't I own an RPG and hunt groundhogs with them? Should I be able to own a fully armed tank? If we can outlaw RPG's & Stingers for the general public, we can do the same for assault weapons without being in any way inconsistent and jeopardizing our right to traditional sporting guns. The hysterical tone of the "assault crowd" would seem to indicate that on some level they understand this. I for the life of me do not understand why hunters need to be bullied and intimidated into being in the "same trench" as the assault crowd.Alex1st off you (and I) as American Citezens have no constitutionally garaunteed right what-so-ever to "traditional arms". If you want to take the strictest view possible. All citezens are garanteed the right to keep and bare ARMS wich in the common usage of the times that the constitution was written meant military grade arms Or BETTER. Back then a state of the art military weapon was no better and in some cases quite inferior to civillian weapons. The miliatary was still using smooth bore muskets long after civillians routinely utilized rifled barrels. 2A rights serve two purposes. 1. When everything goes to hell in a handbasket (like in the case of Hurricane Katrina for example) and the government is incapable of providing for our security the local citizens can band together and provide for their own defense against lawlessness anarchy etc. until order can be re-established 2. In the event that the government gets completely out of control the citizens have the means at hand to reclaime control and preserve the principals of liberty and freedom that the nation was founded on in the first place.This amendmant has been systematically eroded over the years. The NRA and other institutions were origionally formed to promote "skill at arms" and have since been forced into the role of protecting the 2a.The reasons people got so rightfully fired up about this are:1. Mr. Petzal and Mr. Zumbo wouldn't have a job to begin with if it wasn't for the defense of the 2A. It's been proven time and time again in many democratic countries that once the tide of regualtion starts to creep guns are banned one or two distictions at a time until there are no guns in the hands of any citizen. There is no rational argument you can mount to dispute this fact. Without the 2A there are no traditional arms.2. Mr. Petzal sold out on this right in 94 in order to take the easy road. The problem is there is no easy road in the defense of the 2A. In the course of doing so he contributed materially not only in weakening the 2A but with the gutting of a portion of his own industry at the expense of many of his peers.3. On the eve of renewed assualt on OUR freedoms and this segment of his own industry Mr. Zumbo margionalized us AGAIN. And gave support to the very people trying to destroy OUR rights. To make it worse Mr. Zumbo enjoyed a lavish lifestyle paid for in no small amount by the people he attacked. His sponsors did the exact right thing in response to the thouroughly justified anger of the tens of thousands of people that responded.4. Mr. Petzar further margionalized 2A supporters by calling them by inference "mental patients" and "chat room hero's" etc. This comming from a man who sold out the 2A and encouraged others to do the same and went on to lead a very prosperous life paid for again in no small part by the very people he turned his back on. When he was called to task on it his response was "you weren't important back the even though I enjoyed shooting an AR-15 but we can't afford to sacrifice you now" "look at me I wrote an article about .50 cal rifles, that makes up for it right?"I've got nothing against "traditional arms". I fly fished as a kid and was an avid field and stream reader. Right up to the point that Mr. Petzar sold out my (and your) 2A rights. I spent my entire adult life in service to this country to protect our rights. Many of my fellow Marines gave their life to this calling. So All of our rights will be protected. I am not predisposed by nature to sit idly by and watch some be enriched by the very community that he betrayed then and be-littles now. I'm sorry if you don't like it but we have a resposiblity to hold our peers to the recognized standards of our community. If you make your living from the firearms community one of those standards is enthusiastic defense of the 2A and it has nothing what so ever to do with "traditional arms".

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from Renny Seymour wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow! What a response. Put me with those that say condeming any firearm is condeming all.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yet another well articiculated response. More of that needed. What else do We. need to do. It seems that no matter how the NRA is looked upon by the individuals of either "group", they appear to be the only organization to have folks from all the interest areas, Can there be others? I say this recognizing that they,NRA have not represented me in the past. But that aside, I feel that they may be "turning the corner" , as a result of many events. _____Wm Stojack

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from Mark wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Editors need to take a serious look at this fellow Dave, as our so-called friend of gun owners and set him out to pasture. Go Graze somewhere else Dave !!!!!!

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from scott wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yes, hunters and shooters need to realize that we are all in this together and not to turn on each other.However, it is the "hunters" (that are willing to sacrifice other gun-owners - like Petzal and Dumbo) that need to get on our side, not the other way around.For those "hunters" that recognize the issue, you need to support the NRA and other gun rights organizations and you need to very explicity oppose any and ALL restrictions on "assault weapons" and other things like licensing, registration, and one-gun-a-month laws. They are aimed at you too.If the millions of "hunters" and casual shooters that are not members of the NRA were, the NRA would have 40 million members not 4 million and there wouldn't be a single anti-gun law introduced, much less passed, by Congress.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Eric, You seem to be right on the mark! Thats what some folks seem to be doing, (divide & conquor). But then sooner or later most will realize that the majority of the "venom" would come from a sense of frustration on all sides. That combined with a sense of frustration will create a reaction every time. And not usually in a rational manner. Attacks result in reactions. Thats really not the road to any meaningful discussion of the threat that confronts all involved in what I think has been called The Shooting Sports in the past. Maybe the Outdoor Sports is a better term, don't know.______Wm Stojack

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from Eric Alder wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

There's an awful lot of prattle here (as is so often the case with blogs) but every once in awhile you come across a gem.To whit, the well-phrased posting by A.I. Rutledge, who obviously knows how to write (not to mention spell) and makes his points concisely, rather than just spewing venom.(Although I admit enjoying Pat Eddinger's 'commie-pinko-spin-meister' phrase - hilareous!)Divide & Conquor is still the leading strategy of the anti-gunners' campaign."United we stand, divided we fall" is NOT just a platitude.

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from Alex Pohl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Rambos of America, perhaps I am ill-informed abouut the legality of your various tactical toys. It seems to me that you would all be happier living in a country like Iraq or Lebanon or Afghanistan where I am sure you would really need armored cars and AK-47's. I also think you'd be happy living in a place where you could issue fatwas against anyone who disagreed with you the way the mullahs of the NRA did to Jim Zumbo. We don't need rational arguments against the Clinton's and Michael Moore; we need body armor and fire power! You all may be on to something. I think I may give up fly-fishing and start using dynamite.

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from Mayster wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Every movement that imploded from within did so by those inside the movement turning on those one step to the left. Absolutist rhetoric (not to mention actions) feeds into public misperceptions. Hello -show me a politician who cares about original intent. Re-election is the golden calf and the "public" is the only way to get there. All 2.5 million of us can get as worked up at each other as we'd like, but I can't imagine that's going to help the other 250 million voters think we're rational or reasonable. Gee, let's publicly crucify Petzal and Zumbo. I'm sure that'll help convince the soccer moms to let us all (hunters and shooters alike) keep our guns. We ceased to be a republic ruled by law long ago. Let's just shoot each other until they come take the guns away - 2nd amendment be damned. THEY really don't care about the constitution and it won't serve as a refuge. It's heading the way of the Electoral College - it's going to be all about the popular vote, and on that note, we're not helping ourselves much here.

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from Jay wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Golly, I can't remember when I became so elitist and devisive as a hunter. It must have snuck up on me. Lucky for me you tactical guys have come up with a clever nickname for us 'Fudds'. My favorite part of deer camp has always been sittin' around the old campfire talking smack about assault rifles. Thanks to you, I've seen the light! Please, leave our blog, but don't forget to do your threat assessment on the way out...

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from Overly Hackled wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have a black Lab, black gun ,black truck, black cat, black ice sled,black gun case ,black knife case,black flashlight ,black crow call,black sun glasses frames, a pair of black pants, a black shirt, a black pair of sox, several black friends, a pair of black shoes,a black pen , black hair , a black hat ,a black t- shirt, a black coat, have black letters on my key board drink black coffee,eat black beans,black molasses and black licorice fish for black bass , hunt black bear, read books with black print, have been black balled and want to have a drink of black velvet whiskey so I can black out and wake up to read about something other than every one beating this black dead horse to death!

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from James H. Black wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I realize the Mr. Zumbo has refuted his statement with regard to "black guns," but that did not stop the Brady Campaign representative from referencing his statement at the Maryland Assault Weapons Ban hearing held by the Maryland Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee yesterday. It was very disheartening.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Very well put Matt. Most of these items are available on the Legal, Govt Regulated market. Thats with the exception of MPADS ( Stinger type systems). The available items are not cheap. And you must have ATF approval before taking possesion. Funny thing, those in that area of interest call the Tax Stamp that is afixed to the orig. paperwork you Must Have, before you can take possesion, a "Duck Stamp ". Wonder where that has it's roots ? Since 1934 when these types of weapons have been Very tightly regulated, there has only be one documented case of Felony misuse. That was a Cop who flipped out & murdered a person with a Registered Weapon. Not a bad record , when the estimated numbers vary from 350k to as high as 475k in circulation. Can't say for sure ,as its Tax Information and Private. So a number of these things ( grenade-launchers, cannons, anti-tank guns, machine-guns, "silencers"-actually refered to as suppresors. They are there ,in licensed , vetted, civie hands. And have been for several Decades. (The Law Enforcement Folks have a lot also,and are part of those numbers), in the States that still believe in the concept of the 2nd Amend. Funny thing, those States seem to believe in the whole package of Amendments. Generally you can say there are 39 of them out of the 50. Pity that al of them don't seem to believe that you you are , what would the Poll. Correct word be ? I'll just use one of my own, how about "Trustworthy " So, they decided that you are not. I Voted with my feet in '71, moved to a place that you are still a "good Guy" ,unless you prove otherwise. And since I've moved here , fought to keep it that way, with my Vote, Wallet, & Support for those Polit.s that feel the same way, Local,and National. Alex, I must thank you again Sir, for the chance to explain some of this for you & others. What a grand thing! ____Wm Stojack

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Alex, glad you brought that up. The Second Amendment was given to us so we (the citizens) would have some means to defend against the oppression of our own government, should the need arise. Therefore, RPGs, Stingers, and other such weapons would be considered protected under the Second Amendment, just as certain rich individuals of the time possessed their own private arsenals. Laws banning RPGs and such, while very easy for the government to defend, do violate both the spirit and letter of the Second Amendment.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Alex, That is a good question. Not having any "tanks" I can't speak to that. But I do have several wheeled armored cars that people have mistakenly called tanks over the years. Ferrets,Saracens, & Saladins. They are former Brit. Military that have been restored over several years. They are Licensed & Insured & Street Legal. Oh, I need to mention that they are all equipped with their correct guns.The gun being: 1919a4 Browning MG, Browning M-2 HB MG. You see Alex, contrary to what you stated these types of "guns" are not "banned" as you would think or have. They are highly regulated & licensed. Sort of like a hunting license that I'm assuming you have. But I don't think that you get finger-printed , or go thru a Full Agency Back Ground Check for your Federal Migratory Bird license. Why , you say? I say , Because I want to! Its legal ! I am in a 2Mill + Metro area & have an agreement with the local Law Enforcement folks that the vehicles are available,hopefully never, "if needed". Hopefully ,this will help aleviate your "fear". And to some extent what I'll refer to as "Lack of Knowledge" on these subjects that you have expressed. I hope I have not given any impression that I'm prone to any form of "Hysteria". So how is it that I form a "threat"to you , or your choice of "Recreation". And yes, I grew up in the Great Outdoors. Hunted most all Game,Fished ,several Fly Ins to Northern Canada, Family Cabin in the woods (80acres). Went on to other things. Those other things still involving firearms. To sum this up . With all due respect Alex, I don't see that you have a full understanding of the issues at hand here. It's All the A's at stake here! If you would take the time to read back throuhg the previous posts, you see that. Its been expressed far better than I can. Lets just say that my intrests do you, or hunting no harm. I asure you I have never shot-up any road signs. You may not like what I enjoy, thats OK. I don't have the time nor the incination to share the camp with you. But I would fight right along side you to prevent you from becoming as regulated as my interests ( EBRs) have.And as Threatened. I Was There in '68 when this started. And you ? Thanks for the chance to explain & enlighten you Alex.______ Wm Stojack

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from Alex Pohl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have a question for the more strident critics of Mr. Petzal and those who think the right to own assault rifles is sacrosanct. Is it admissible to make any kind of distinction between various sorts of "arms?" Why not contrue the term as used in the 2nd Amendment as including RPG's and Stinger anti-aircraft weapons? Why can't I own an RPG and hunt groundhogs with them? Should I be able to own a fully armed tank? If we can outlaw RPG's & Stingers for the general public, we can do the same for assault weapons without being in any way inconsistent and jeopardizing our right to traditional sporting guns. The hysterical tone of the "assault crowd" would seem to indicate that on some level they understand this. I for the life of me do not understand why hunters need to be bullied and intimidated into being in the "same trench" as the assault crowd.

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from Allan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Let's be frank. The deep-down, gut-level reason that liberals want to ban guns is that they fear gun owners. They are generally elitists who want to tell the rest of us what to do. That's hard to do when so many of "the rest of us" have those unfortunate weapons. There is some level of oppression at which we will fight back. They don't want us to have the weapons with which to fight when that level arrives.

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from Greg wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal's comments (insults) towards gun owners appear to be disingenuous and condescending. Like Zumbo, he apparently doesn't "get it" that the 2nd amendment is about protecting all of our firearms rights and not just his hunting firearms. Petzal puts on a great show about shooting an AR-15 in a prairie dog town and then admits he doesn't own an AR-15 but an M1A. Could it be that the AR-15 he shot was simply borrowed and he doesn't own one as he implied?Regardless of whether he owns an AR or not, his condescension towards gun owners who are mad at Zumbo is readily apparent as is his lack of comprehension about why we are mad. Like Zumbo, Petzal simply doesn't "get it."

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tired , So it would seem. And Dave is there too! Thanks Again, ___Wm Stojack

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from tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Bill, good to see we can agree.Enjoy the threads around here. The regulars are good guys.Have a good evening.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Tired, I appreciate that. That is a very nice of you. See , we can agree on things after all. The other threads are pretty good. Very informative, I'm sure we can agree on that,right ? And you can call me Bill, OK ? Good. __Wm Stojack

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from Tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yes, William, thats everything.Have a nice evening.All my best to you and yours.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow, More valid complaints. I'll be around for a while. Right now there is a couple of Good discussions going on on the other threads here. Try them,you might like some of them. And nobody is quite so hostile. As I stated everyone has opinions on a lot of things. Thats everything, right ?___Wm Stojack

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from Tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey William,You've been chastising Dave and anyone else who won't agree with your position for days on this blog and now that someone gives you a bit of grief, you can't handle it.This sir is why most people will not pay any attention to your position. You are like a child who whines when he doesn't get everyone to play the game his way. Perhaps you'd like to take your ball and go home. It would be appreciated.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well put Matt. Need more comments like that don't ya think ? It would seem to be much more productive than name calling & personal shots. But, I understand the motivation behind it. That is the great part of the free exchange of ideas that the Internet has brought into play. Isn't that the function of BLOGs ? Agree or disagree thats how it has turned out to be. Oh ,then there is censorship. But then thats the Moderators function. Alas, I'm now chastised for a spelling error. But no comment on what the statement was. That would seem to fit the definition of "Troll"as used previously.___Wm Stojack

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I've been sick for a few days so forgive my lateness at getting into this little implosion in the hunting world. First things first. From what I have heard, the particular words Zumbo wrote that got people fried were that those who own what he calls assault rifles would be "lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them", meaning, as if anyone didn't know, Al-Qaeda. There are many, many shooters in this country, including myself, who own what can easily be called assault rifles. True, Sarah Brady and Al Gore seem to reinvent what an assault rifle is and so the term now has little if any meaning, but that’s besides the point. Many Americans enjoy going to the range with an AR or an AK or what-have-you. Because these firearms don’t look old or sleek enough, they have given too many people (including Zumbo) an irrational fear of them bordering on hysteria. Then there is also the little fact that when we talk about hunting and about the Second Amendment, we are talking about two VERY different things, and y’all know it. The Second Amendment was not given to us so we could go out and blast prairie dogs. Zumbo’s comments were beyond stupid for several reasons. First, they show a lack of knowledge about why some of us own these weapons and express the view that anyone who own guns for reasons other than those of the author has somehow erred. Second, they show disunity among the hunting/shooting community. Such disunity is raw feed for the anti-gunners and we need it like we need a hole in the head. Remember when Colorado outlawed in-line muzzle-loaders because a few elitist fossils didn’t consider them sporting enough? If you don’t like them, don’t use them. But for God’s sake, stand up for the right of others to use them! Third and finally, comparing gun owners to terrorists is simply insulting and disgusting. Sarah Brady tried that and hunting magazines tore her limb from limb for it, as they should have. I lost friends and family on 9/11 so I take such comments extremely personally. I do realize that unlike the calculating Brady, Zumbo’s terrorist comment was most likely a slip of the tongue brought on by lack of sleep or a little too much whiskey. But he should have known better. He should have known that after the tooth and nail struggle to defend our rights through eight years of Clinton, we do not have much of a sense of humor over these things. And with the slight chance that Bubba’s bitchoid of a wife will wiggle back into the Oval Office, now is the last time gun owners should be at each other’s throats.What Zumbo said was beyond stupid. However, I believe what he said was said as a mistake and not out of true hatred for owners of “assault weapons”. He has paid a heavy price for it, as well he should. However, lets not go overboard. Lets not crucify him because all that’s going to do is embolden the Sarah Bradys of this world.

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from tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"Origonal"? Apparently skipping your meds has destroyed your reasoning skills and spelling abilities. I would adhere to the schedule William, I really would.Again, Take care and be well, Sir.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow, There is a really origonal one. Nothing else to comment on ? Very rational, issue based response! Thank you for making my point for me. _____Wm Stojack

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from tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

No William, it's not an issue.But perhaps you shouldn't be skipping your meds. It's not healthy.Take care and be well.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

No Tired, You think its just me? We don't give up ! Look at this as kind of a "Wake_up" We have been given up in the past "the under the bus" thing. You seem to be the one giving up. Maybe you don't care. I've subscribed to Dave E-Mail service so I can stay tuned in to what he has to say in the event goe's away, or starts blocking folks in the future. Is that an issue? ______Wm Stojack

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from Nelson wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I will be contacting all of your sponsors, and what I have to say will not be nice.

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from Tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Give it up Stojack.Dave's ignoring you (thanks dave) and I believe I'll join him.So long.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Michael, Your opinion is noted. I'm glad you can express yours also. This is not the forum to express them ?? You Sir,it would appear are willing to put the "horse" right into the "DogFood Can. So be it ! Then opt off and don't post. That Sir is your option. Have you taken the time to read the posts previous to even the last 100 or so ? If you had you will see that at no time have I asked for Dave to lose his employment with F &S. No, I would like him to come foreward and respond to the question posed here ? Power ? I have the power of one, the same as you. At the Voting Booth ,(Nat & Local) I Sir, have never missed a chance to exercise my franchise of free choice. Altho ,I did Vote absentee ballot in '68 as I was in the Mekong Delta at the time. I freely admit that from my own perspective your "a comment made 14 years ago" seems like "only yesterday" because of the impact it had on My Freedoms. Perhaps it did not impact you as it did me? Humm ? Asking , no make that pleading for a response in a chiding & repetive way is "Hateful" ? And I Sir, have no problems in having my name attached to everyting I care to write.---Wm Stojack____Are you there Dave ?

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from Michael wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I think this horse has been ridden to death. Perhaps we should all stop posting on this blog. That would certainly give Mr. Stojack more space to keep repeating over and over his Hate/Dave inane ramblings that make very little sense. It seems he will not stop until F&S fires Petzal for a comment made 14 years ago. Grow up, sir. If you have that much power, why not use it to get some of the anti-gun politicians removed from office?

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Interesting comments about Zumbo. It appears that he has a very long way to go to get back in gun owners good graces.I noticed that in one of his apologies he said something to the effect "I have had a revelation."I got a kick out of that comment because it seemed he was setting himelf up as "Moses on the mountain" ready to lead all of us gun owners to the promised land.I think he needs to quit hiding behind Nugents name and fame and get out on some of these other gun boards and face the music.That might go a long way in getting redemption and show that he is serious about his "conversion".So far it seems he is just content to hide behind Nugent and his Blood brothers hoping they can put him back on his gravy train.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Earth to Dave! Do you have a clue Dave? Dave are you there? Dave? Dave, we had a tip from _____ that you had plane reservations to France! Reality to Dave ! We will be here Dave! We'll keep a candle in the window! _______ Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mumbo ZummboI'm not looking down on you bro for anything and if I gave you that impression I appologize. I by no means am trying to slap a dash of holy water on the guys' brow and loudly proclaim "he is healed". He indeed has a long long way to go to dig himself out of his hole. I'm just letting you know I accepted his apology and am in favor of handing him his shovel so he can start digging. If he just goes away the Anti's claim "See those mean EBR guys are Jack Legging the rest of the sportsmen." The guy needs to put back what he's taken out. By mearly closing out his carreer how is he supposed to pay back that debt? Like I said it's up to you to decide when or if ever to forgive him and if you never do I'm cool with that.

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I checked with the president of our local club this evening and he says there is a guy who's a member that can handle these issues for us.Thanks again for your time. I appreciate it and apologize for taking so long to post this response.Ed

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from Brian in Oregon wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

When I see Zumbo as the new spokesman for DPMS, Rock River, or Armalite, THEN I'll accept his "apology". Until then, he can KMA. Apologies don't have weasel clauses in them like "yeah, but". Further, he knows what words are, he uses them professionally. He knew exactly what he wrote, tired or not. The latent anti-gun tendancies came out. He pulled a Mel Gibson on his fellow gunowners, and his "apology" comes up short. Especially when you consider he called fellow gun owners "terrorists". That in no uncertain terms was outrageous. OUTRAGEOUS!As for those of us kicking Zumbo to the curb somehow "dividing" gunowners, sorry, but you better save that for the Fudds that have been doing that for decades now.If there is reconcilement to be made, it better start with the Fudds. And the litmus test is going to be HR1022. We need to see whether the Fudds are going to put their mouths where their NRA membership cards are. And that includes soft-on-the-Second Amendment hunting and fishing magazines.

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from Ol' Johnny wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I'm glad that you chose to open your mouth without thinking, just like your mate zumbo did, the more people like you rear your ugly heads the more true 2nd amendment supporters like myself may continue to relentlessly reprimand you; you and your publication have no right to chastise us for enjoying our right to bear arms or criticize those who dare to label us as "terrorists" soft-minded people like you and zumbo throw judgment around as though it has no meaning. You have no idea what terrorism is, it most certainly is not an American patriot who enjoys and deeply appreciates the freedoms given to us by those who were willing to lay down their lives in the name of freedom for everyone in this great country.

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from Mumbo-Zumbo wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty, If you want to forgive a man for spitting in your face, then that's your choice, don't look down on those of us that won't.I have noticed a disturbing trend in some locations to look upon this "Zumbo affair" as being "over the edge" or "cruel" or even "mean spirited" because this "poor old guy" has "issued" what another "fuddite" would consider "an appology"... but is,in reality, nothing more than an attempt at damage control by mr Zumbo and his elitist writing buddies and a group of fellow fudds.You see; I am a 2nd Amendment Supporter first, a collector of Curio and Relics and other military style firearms second, a shooter third. One thing is that no matter how we place our priorities we all should have the same number one priority: the 2nd Amendment, without it the others matter not.The article posted by Mr Zumbo was not: 1) a precision comparison of bolt action to AR type rifles, 2) a ballistics comparison of various ammo capabilities 3) a dependability comparison based on functionality and number of moving parts. It was in its truest form GUN SNOBBERY and a complete lack of respect for someone else's 2nd amendment rights.I have noticed a disturbing trend in some locations to look upon this "Zumbo affair" as being "over the edge" or "cruel" or even "mean spirited" because this "poor old guy" has "issued" what another "fuddite" would consider "an appology"... but is,in reality, nothing more than an attempt at damage control by mr Zumbo and his elitist writing buddies and a group of fellow fudds.IMO it's all lip service and he's only trying to salvage his gravy train, nothing more.Unless he starts actively supporting the rights of all gun owners and going head-to-head with the Brady Bunch, then it's lip service IMO, and he's only trying to salvage his gravy train, nothing more.I would never, no matter how much I dislike a gun, no matter how much I dislike a certain genre that uses a certain gun, NEVER tell someone that their gun choice does not belong, has no place, and should be banned from forsts and praires.If I were to do this then my choice of gun has no relevance and would be undeserving of ownership as I would have condemned another's choice.And I certainly would never describe a gun with the term "Terrorist". Someone who has been in the NRA for 40 years and as well respected hunter should have known this! For this Jim Zumbo should NEVER be forgiven.Jim Zumbo should never make another dime off his name. He should never write, or publish for that matter, any opinions on firearms or firearms skills.He should never endorse, or be endorsed, by any name or label no matter how big or small. He should never recieve another free promotional item to be tried out or tested.He should just simply fade away only to be rolled out as an example of what true 2nd amendment support is all about.

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from TooTSweet wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

the guys are working on getting stock reports on F&S sponsors.Next week-end we take out those fragile sponsors. The easy one first and then the H bomb baby is coming and I mean hell on earth jr.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mumbo ZumboSuit yourself bro. The man f***ed up royally and was justly held accountable by the community he serves. I guess you never really screwed the pooch in your life? The man lost alot financially but at his stage of the game if he wasn't prepped for retirement he's wrong. The real punishment by far unless I totally miss my guess is that a quarter of a million people from his own community took time out of their busy shedule to tell him to eat $h!t. I'd rather take a kick in the balls anyday. I make my livleyhood in the EBR industry and have a lot to loose in addition to my 2A rights if the AWB goes back in and I accepted his appology. You said he hasn't done anything to rate your forgiveness which is fine that's something only you can weigh for yourself. But I would submit that if people don't now give him the chance to do anything without kicking him in the teeth how will he be able to redeem himself in anyone's eyes.ON THAT NOTE THE BALL'S IN YOUR COURT NOW MR. PETZAR. I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS HOW THE AVERAGE GUY FEELS ABOUT YOUR WHAT HAPPENED IN '94 I'M JUST ASKING THAT YOU OWN UP TO BEING A PARTY TO THE AWB AND APOLOGIZE FOR THAT AND YOUR ARROGANT CHARACTERIZATION OF THE EBR COMMUNITY. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE POSTS ABOVE WERE EXPRESSING CENSURE OF YOUR CONDUCT. THE PEOPLE DOING THE YELLING PAY YOUR WAGES WETHER THEY PATRONIZE FS OR NOT. YOU MAY THINK THAT 13 YEARS CONSTITUTES A LONG TIME HARBOR RESENTMENT BUT I SOPPOSE THAT DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU HAD A PROSPEROUS 13 YEARS OR YOU SPENT THE TIME CLAWING AND SCRATCHING TRYING TO KEEP YOUR COMMUNITY AFLOAT WATCH A FEW GO UNDER THE WAVES IN THE PROCESS. NICE THING ABOUT ADVERSITY THOUGH. IT MAKES YOU LEAN IT MAKES YOU STRONG AND IT MAKES YOU VIGILANT.WHAT SAY YOU MR. PETZAR?

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from Esq. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"Al Gore’s mansion, located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric Service (NES). . . . The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWh—more than 20 times the national average. Last August alone, Gore burned through 22,619 kWh—guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of his energy consumption, Gore’s average monthly electric bill topped $1,359."We don't know how much Zumbo's bill is yet.We do have a guy that claims he had a homosexual affair with petzal back in 1983.But thats another blog.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

WHO EVER RUNS THIS BOARDPlease tag me too. From your persective this avalanche was an accident waiting to happen. One thing you may want to consider is you had 1500 or so hits from fellow 2A folks that were a tad bit vexed at you. There was some strong language traded but nobody did anything but vent their frustration. If you don't hook your site up a little the next "blogstorm" could be a couple of colledge kids with the anti mentality and the knowledge to do some real nasty $h!t to your server and the first thing you know about it is people are calling you on the land line asking why they're getting a gay porn reveiw when they log on and you can't figure how to make it stop. Then you got kids that cruze around looking for sites w/ weak security and just wreck em kinda like cyber-vandals. At least you have a rudimentary defense against a "many hits" attack. But a few simple protocal steps like automatic IP logging and sign in procedures help allot. Any how good luck. Please do the right thing and be responsible for your staff writers.

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from Mumbo-Zumbo wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Zumbo hasn't done anything yet to deserve my forgiveness, nor was he my favorite hunting writer.In fact, I dislike all hunting writing. It's a waste (IMHO, of course) of paper and ink. If I want to look at photos of dead animals, I'll go to the news stand and buy a copy of Dead Animal Monthly. I buy gun magazines to read about and look at pictures of guns, not dead animals.That whole premise that you can deliberately insult someone, say you "are sorry" and then become the "victim" when the aggrieved party does not accept your "less than abject" or "not quite heartfelt appology" is typically liberal.Anyone that defines a gunowner as a terrorist deserves to rot in literary limbo for a lot longer than Mr. Zumbo has left to live on this planet.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Sooo, Dave, did you survive the storm? I honestly hope so, and I honestly hope that people will decide to let Zumbo back in the circle, with a renewed understanding and appreciation & vigor for the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment. At least Zumbo apologized a few times, from the heart. C'mon, people, give at least Zumbo another chance if he proves himself!

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed,Tag me at that address so I can send you my regular contact info for your range folks. That address is a throw away and I'll dump it as soon as I fwd my regular info. As you have seen this is an Unsecure Page so I'm not going to link my regular digits to it.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from Patriot wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Amendment II"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Thats excellent ,see all the "GOOD" that Can be acomplished working Together! Thats what this site can do, if you put aside the crap. We are in this together! It won't make any difference if we all don't try to take the first gesture. Come on down. Bring facts, not feelings. Dave , Did you see that? We are getting along pretty good on our own! Dave ,are you there Dave ? Wm Stojack

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Aaaahh...have we finally vented enough? Now, let's get on to the important Next Steps.1) JOIN THE NRA!! JOIN THE NRA!! JOIN THE NRA!! JOIN THE NRA!!2) Write your Congressman / Woman about Opposing HR 1022!! It only takes a couple of minutes!!This site will allow you to easily find your Congressman/woman:http://www.govtrack.us/And here is a sample letter you can use, I posted the reference earlier, but now revised a little:Please OPPOSE H.R. 1022Dear Congressman/woman [Insert name]:I am a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen, a voter, and a firearms owner. I implore you, as my representative in Washington, to uphold not only the letter, but also the spirit of the Second Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms is essential to our continued freedom, both as a nation and as a people.If you are at all familiar with firearms, then you will know that the new ban that is being proposed (H.R. 1022) is absolutely & completely without merit. As in the previous failed ban, the restrictions are entirely cosmetic, and will in no way stop the use of weapons of any kind among the criminal element. This ban would restrict the free exercise of law abiding citizens’ rights simply because of the fear and ignorance of a vocal minority.Gun bans only hinder law-abiding citizens, not criminals.You have an opportunity to stand up for the rights of your constituents, the people who voted for you. I urge you, please do not let fear and ignorance sway your decision. There are far more supporters of firearms rights (and the right to own your choice of firearms) than those opposed. We, as responsible firearms owners, do not deserve to be told that our exercise of our rights is immoral or terroristic simply because of the appearance of our chosen firearms.You swore to uphold the 2nd Amendment with the oath you took on January 4th, 2007:“I, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”Please no not break your oath by allowing H.R. 1022 to pass.I, and millions of others, are watching your action on this matter, and our votes for you in any future elections hinge on your support for the Second Amendment.Sincerely,[Insert name & contact info]Proud AmericanProud Firearms OwnerNRA MemberDucks Unlimited MemberMember of Local Gun Club/Firing RangeSoon to be member of (because of this newly proposed ban):www.AR15.com

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I'll check with the guys @ the range. I've kept your email address and will have the president of our range send you an email if we need the help.Thanks so very much for taking your time to offer. You sir, are a gentleman.Ed.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed tag me on this e-mail. I don't know how computer savy you are so I'm not trying to be insulting but just click on the "posted by: Krusty0369" at the bottom stamp of this post and you'll be linked to a throw away email account. Guns-Up!Krusty

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed,Give me a while to make a throw away email account. I'll post it later send me an email at that account and I'll get in touch w/ you direct. I've got a friend who's an environmental chemist AND gun friendly (go figure) I don't know if she'd be able to do an onsite but she'd probably be able to give you some sound advice if nothing else.Who Ever Runs This BoardListen to Mysterio he knows what he's talking about. If you had controls and mods you'd have been able to enforce discipline around here. Go talk to the Aviles Brothers at AR-15.com I'm sure they would be able to give you some good advice on how to set up a board so you can have some control. At that point how hard you want steer the conversation is up to you and your mods.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Troll !Bye Troll! Wm Stojack

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dave, Are you there Dave (Old movie dialogue), Hal, I'm here. Are you here to shut me down Dave? No Hal! Dave, are you anywhere?___Wm Stojack

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I'm in the great state of Indiana.Home of slug guns, muzzleloaders and the Indianapolis 500(not necessarily in that order).

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed, I'm sorry. What I should have said is that your election results are correct. But I think they are not a blanket numbel for our interest groups. I do beleve that over all ours "Gun Folks", for lack of a better term. Are much higher than the general population. Not as good as they should be, but higher. We need to work on this, or we fail overall.Contrary to what on the surface may seem devisive dialog. It is becoming more apparent every day with the Mass Media that WE Are Becoming A Force to Be Concerned With! As so often in the real world it took "blood on the deck" before they took note. A event that took our elected reps by surprise. They are just starting to realize the power of organization that is ours in the modern age. Is this the signal to take a time out? Not for many. Do you really think that those of use that are present here on these pages sit around on our asses & monitor the internet as our sole interests & it's our form of fun? _____ Hope this clears up my comment for you, Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tom,Anytime brother.Ed,Your right on the expense part. I'm not talking about duplicating their testing but even having a pro on deck to observe the process and cry foul isn't cheap. What part of the country are you in?Guns-Up!Krusty

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from mysterio wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I've been looking through thesepost over the last day or so and it seems like (for the most part) the same half dozen people are posting. I think the duration is over for most of these guys. They have vented and gone onto something else.Oh... you didn't get the memo? Were the ones who've been detailed to hang around and see what action is eventually taken in this matter. It's really boring trying to sit and watch a blog page when the editors have put a gag order on the main guy so ya gotta post something once and while to keep from falling asleep. There are still some sights where this matter is seriously churning and burning. While you're out there take a good look at how those sights are set up. If you guys had an administrator, a moderator or two and all the technical controls of a real post board you could of shut this little rant session down any time you wanted to. It would have cost you a little more per month but then again you would still have control of your board without having to result to just pulling the plug and leaving it off for a month. We honestly like you guys so just think of this as an educational process. Of course you could just pull the plug or do the right thing and take responsibility for your content.

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from Tom Mix wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago
from Tom wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,Thanks for the suggestions on the range thing. I'll get with the board at our next meeting.

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

William,You lost me on your response to my post, sir.Krusty,Most ranges can't afford the amount of third party testing that you speak of. The EPA is backing this (according to the people who run my range) and making the environmentalists job a whole lot easier than it should be. You and I can agree to diagree on the lead issue, every year I see more and more lead subsitutes and I see lead being banned sooner rather than later.

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from Tom Mix wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The failure of the media elites of the world to show these Anti-gun disciples in true light is important. Only by understanding their deeper motivations can future generations comprehend the ultimate failure of gun control policy and there architects.They tell us that we have the right to self-defense never really meaning it.They're willing to be attacked and called, in some form or fashion, "TRAITOR" in order to advocate policies that are good for the country.In the end, that's what liberalism versus conservatism all comes down to sappy, feel good emotionalism that sounds appealing, but doesn't work versus doing things the right way, even when it's not easy.Anti-gun liberals seldom do consider the long-term consequences of their feel good policies.It takes a lot more integrity, character, and courage to be a conservative than it does to be a liberal. That's because at its most basic level, liberalism is nothing more than childlike emotionalism applied to adult issues. Going to war is mean, so we shouldn't do it. That person is poor and it would be nice to give him money, so the government should do it. Somebody wants to have an abortion, have a gay marriage, or wants to come into the U.S. illegally and it would be mean to say, "no," so we should let them. I am nice because I care about global warming! Those people want to kill us? But, don't they know we're nice? If they did, they would like us! WE HAVE TO PUT THE IRON BOOT TO THESE TRAITORS MY FELLOW GUNNERS!!! WE DON"T NEED OR WANT ANYMORE - "Michael Moore compares Iraqi insurgents who kill Americans to the Minutemen of Revolutionary New England." WAKE UP PEOPLE AND LETS GO TO WAR! WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE SOMETIME,WHY NOT DIE HERE AT HOME AND FREE OURSELVE'S FROM THESE TRAITORS!!!! ANY OF YOU MEN LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY? WASHINGTON TRAITORS MUST GO!How man VICHY GOT SHOT IN THE BACK FIRING ON COUNTRYMEN?

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I read in a previous post that the NRA has only 4 million members. I've read that there are 80-100 million gun owners in this country. If the above data is correct, the NRA has only managed to recruit 4 to 5 percent of us.Someone needs to be looking @ their marketing strategy a little better, don't you think?

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

That is a very incisive & fact filled comment Ed. And your version of normal is ?Might it be without being able to express our displeasure with a Public Figure? That seems just a little over the top. Come on in, you & Dave can explain how we "Just Don't Understand, The Real Truth". Right Dave ? Dave ,are you there? ___Wm Stojack Oh Dave, I signed up to your E-Mail service too!

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tom,You have a huge point there! It's one of the things that have made the BRAC proccess so screwed up. Who's going to pay for the cost of cleaning up the firing ranges when they close a base down. This is going to bite us in the ass in about 5 or 6 years. No easy solution but if you have the granola munching togo sandle wearing crowd trying to close your range down here are some tactics.1. Demand that they test and prove that there is a leeching condition going on.2. Make sure sample wells go down to the water table.3. The good news is Lead contamination from range accumilation is a red herring in most soil types.4. The bad news is that the people doing the testing for the state will likely be granola munching togo sandle wearing hippies with degrees. So depending on how bad you want to keep your range open hire some 3rd party experts to verify their methods.The overall problem facing partcularly water fowlers and other shotgunners and public land shooters is going to be tougher. Talk to the ammunition companies and ask them how you can get involved for a start. Trust me I haven't killed an animal with a gun in a long time (maybe I'll get back to doing some hunting but just to damn busy now) but I follow an vote my consience when I hear of people trying to f--k with duck hunters 'cause it means that there comin for my range facilty next.As for the free perc stuff your right. It's the way any industry works. All I'm saying is if'n your loving life and living large spare a thought for how you got there in the first place. It's counter intuitive to expect to get a completely unbiased eval from a comercial print magazine. The best of the writers out there at least get around the issue somewhat by only doing reviews of top quality products. That's why internet firearms boards are so popular. EBR guys (sorry who ever didn't like the term but since we got branded with it we kinda take a perverse pride in it)are amazingly quality consious so instead of buying a magazine I'd go online and say "hey I'm thinking of buy an ACME gun. Who's got one and what do you think?" that way you'll at least get the opinion of a real consumer who'd be more inclined to say "dude, bought one, it sucked, sold it at a gun show for 1/4 the purchase price".

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

We ,Have Been There,Done That, Got the T-Shirt,And Signed Up for the Duration! Is this too tough to understand? ____Wm StojackI've been looking through thesepost over the last day or so and it seems like (for the most part) the same half dozen people are posting. I think the duration is over for most of these guys. They have vented and gone onto something else.The U.S. population tends to lose focus and forget pretty easily.Maybe that's why Bill Clinton got elected twice, same with George Bush.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Great Comment! Thats looking foreward. Its what we ALL need to do. Each battle is just a part of the War! As we become United (hopefully) we can fight on many fronts at the same time. The time is now, there may not be a "Next-Season". We ,Have Been There,Done That, Got the T-Shirt,And Signed Up for the Duration! Is this too tough to understand? ____Wm Stojack

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from jh45gun wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

What Petzel and Zumbo do not get is they say the AR's and AK's and I would bet they put the SKS in the same group do not belong in the hunting fields. Why because it is a military arm???? If that is the case if I had a NICKLE for every past military gun used for hunting I would be rich. Every Garand, M14 and M1 that was used in this country for hunting I would have a good chunk of change. Then if we added the sporterized 03 and 03A Springfields, 1917 Enfields, Krags, and Trapdoor Springfields I would really be rich. Then if we added all the various Mausers,Mosin Nagants,Arisakas,Krags, Enfields, The Swiss and Canadian Straight pull rifles and the French riflea and any other imported milsurp rifle I have missed that has been used for hunting or sporterized in the past the numbers would be staggering so why should they pick on the modern milsurps when this country has a rich past of using milsurps for hunting. It was brought up in a earlier post that a 100 years ago was the last time the military and the civilian used the same rifles for war and hunting. I disagree as gunsmiths and the guy who likes to tinker have been using and modifying military arms (milsurps) from the Revolutionary war to now for hunting so why pick on the modern day military rifles. Pretty stupid considering some one put a name "assault" to a gun that makes it 'evil to some yet it is no different than any other military gun from the past. Milsurps have been taking game ever since there have been milsurps. Maybe Zumbo and Petzal should have looked back at history before shooting off their mouths.

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from jh45gun wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

What Petzel and Zumbo do not get is they say the AR's and AK's and I would bet they put the SKS in the same group do not belong in the hunting fields. Why because it is a military arm???? If that is the case if I had a NICKLE for every past military gun used for hunting I would be rich. Every Garand, M14 and M1 that was used in this country for hunting I would have a good chunk of change. Then if we added the sporterized 03 and 03A Springfields, 1917 Enfields, Krags, and Trapdoor Springfields I would really be rich. Then if we added all the various Mausers,Mosin Nagants,Arisakas,Krags, Enfields, The Swiss and Canadian Straight pull rifles and the French riflea and any other imported milsurp rifle I have missed that has been used for hunting or sporterized in the past the numbers would be staggering so why should they pick on the modern milsurps when this country has a rich past of using milsurps for hunting. It was brought up in a earlier post that a 100 years ago was the last time the military and the civilian used the same rifles for war and hunting. I disagree as gunsmiths and the guy who likes to tinker have been using and modifying military arms (milsurps) from the Revolutionary war to now for hunting so why pick on the modern day military rifles. Pretty stupid considering some one put a name "assault" to a gun that makes it 'evil to some yet it is no different than any other military gun from the past. Milsurps have been taking game ever since there have been milsurps. Maybe Zumbo and Petzal should have looked back at history before shooting off their mouths.

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To Michael,it's sarcasm, I surely know their is nothing evil about them I have one as well as several AK's.How's this for you"EBR"!

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from Tom wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I keep hearing talk about the free hunts and fancy gear that Petzal and Zumbo receive. Don't you think the boys @ the NRA receive the same type of perks.It's the way the industry works.Here's a point of view I've not seen addressed. While everyones been screaming about the 2a and calling each other names, noone has addressed other real concerns gun owners will be facing.Gun usage. The second is the most important thing to protect but the anti's and environmentalists are coming after gun owners through the back door. Zoning changes, noise ordinances and lead contanmination in soil are just three ways that target ranges, skeet, trap, sporting clays and hunting are all being attacked.A lead ban on ALL ammo is going to be a reality sooner rather than later. The cost of any non-lead ammo is super expensive and will severly limit the amount of shooting done anywhere. If a box shells cost 5 times as much as it used to most people can't afford to shoot much.Trying to take down the 2nd amendment has proven to be tough for the anit's. These environmental items will be much easier to put into place and have a far reaching effect on all shooters.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ah the sweet sound of the oft tossed about phrase "Divide & Conquer". Think about that, First half "Divide" was well done in '68. Yes, I WAS THERE ! Never again ! Think the rift did not start then? Conquer, Not quite so easy in the Net Age. And WE have the Numbers! We made it to where we are today (only took us 40yrs)And the "Hunting-Elitists" are now in the Minority. Check the stats ! Its only numbers. And you honestly can't understand the feelings involved? This is Close Quarters Combat ! We are all going to have casualities. Thats just the nature of warfare. The stongest,the biggest, the best may be among the losses. You can turn tail & run, or get over it ! If you think that ANY, repeat ANY individuals career is to high a price to pay in the Battle to Maintain the Little that has been left for My Grand-Children to cherish and Treasure when I'm gone! You better think over your on set of values son! Ain't no Fair-Chase rules here so might as well quit lookin' & snivelin' In this fight there will always be another hill to take, and hold! A lot of "hunters" self proclamed in '68, the Brady,and in'94. "Don't bother-me-none", Yea, I WAS THERE ! Can't tell you HOW many times I heard it! Times have changed. I think you are now in what is called "Culture-Shock". Treat it, get help. Got out from In Front Of The Bus ! Its moving faster! ____ Thanks for taking the time to read the Whole Blog! So you know whats been said already, _______Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Folks this is a real narrow format screen layout. No offense to FS but they ussually don't handle anything approaching this amount of traffic. Might I humbly suggest posting a link to gynormous documents along with your commentary?Guns-Up!Krusty

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from deerhunter270 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Petzal, are you a co=sponser of this one too?Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take long)House.gov ^ | 12/13/2007 | Mrs. MCCARTHY of New YorkPosted on 02/20/2007 5:58:18 AM PST by xmissionA BILL To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007'.SEC. 2. REINSTATEMENT FOR 10 YEARS OF REPEALED CRIMINAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO ASSAULT WEAPONS AND LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.(a) Reinstatement of Provisions Wholly Repealed- Paragraphs (30) and (31) of section 921(a), subsections (v) and (w) and Appendix A of section 922, and the last 2 sentences of section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect just before the repeal made by section 110105(2) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, are hereby enacted into law.(b) Reinstatement of Provisions Partially Repealed- Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:`(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (r), (v), or (w) of section 922;'; and(2) in subsection (c)(1)(B), by striking clause (i) and inserting the following:`(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or'.SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;`(ii) AR-10;`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;`(iv) AR70;`(v) Calico Liberty;`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;`(xi) M1 Carbine;`(xii) Saiga;`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;`(xv) SLG 95;`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;`(xvii) Steyr AUG;`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;`(xix) Tavor;`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:`(i) Calico M-110;`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or`(v) Uzi.`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:`(i) Armscor 30 BG;`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;`(iii) Striker 12; or`(iv) Streetsweeper.`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;`(ii) a threaded barrel;`(iii) a pistol grip;`(iv) a forward grip; or`(v) a barrel shroud.`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--`(i) a second pistol grip;`(ii) a threaded barrel;`(iii) a barrel shroud; or`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;`(ii) a pistol grip;`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).`(K) A conversion kit.`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.SEC. 4. GRANDFATHER PROVISION.Section 922(v)(2) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--(1) by inserting `(A)' after `(2)'; and(2) by adding after and below the end the following:`(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the 1st sentence and inserting the following:`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or`(C) is an antique firearm.'.SEC. 6. REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR THE TRANSFER OF LAWFULLY POSSESSED SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.Section 922(v) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:`(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1) does not apply, except through--`(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of subsection (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon shall be considered to be transferred from the business inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer shall be considered to be the transferor; or`(B) a State or local law enforcement agency if the transfer is made in accordance with the procedures provided for in subsection (t) of this section and section 923(g).`(6) The Attorney General shall establish and maintain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model, and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic assault weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State law, and the nature and circumstances of the crime involved, including the outcome of relevant criminal investigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall annually submit the record to the Congress and make the record available to the general public.'.SEC. 7. STRENGTHENING THE BAN ON THE POSSESSION OR TRANSFER OF A LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.(a) Ban on Transfer of Semiautomatic Assault Weapon With Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device-(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (y) the following:`(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:`(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.(b) Certification Requirement-(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922(w) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--(A) in paragraph (3)--(i) by adding `or' at the end of subparagraph (B); and(ii) by striking subparagraph (C) and redesignating subparagraph (D) as subparagraph (C); and(B) by striking paragraph (4) and inserting the following:`(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large capacity ammunition feeding device that was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before the end of the 60-day period that begins with the date of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, that the device was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.'.(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title, as amended by subsection (a)(2) of this section, is amended by adding at the end the following:`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.SEC. 8. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--(1) in paragraph (1)--(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and(B) by adding at the end the following:`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'; and(2) in paragraph (2)--(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and(B) by adding at the end the following:`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.SEC. 9. BAN ON IMPORTATION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.(a) In General- Section 922(w) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2)' and inserting `(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B)';(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `(2) Paragraph (1)' and inserting `(B) Subparagraph (A)'; and(3) by inserting before paragraph (3) the following:`(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.(b) Conforming Amendment- Section 921(a)(31)(A) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994'.

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from Michael wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To: Dan (2/26/07)Dan, I firmly believe that if we lose our 2nd amendment rights we have just lost all our other rights under the constitution. I believe you have the right to own any firearm you wish as long as you ownership of it is legal.I do wish you would stop referring to your choice of weapons as EBR's (evil black rifles) When you do this, you are giving anti's more ammunition for their inane arguments. I am not a "bubba", "fudd" or any other label. I, as a public school teacher, cannot afford to own all the firearms I would like to have. (believe me, I would have them all!) Therefore I mostly own, buy, swap, etc. sporting armsbecause that is my prefernce. Blued steel and walnut catch my eye. Well, some men prefer ladies with red hair. Good shooting to you in the future.Michael

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from Larry T. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal,I am disgusted with your attitude towards self defense weapons. You are a traitor to gun owners around the world. I will be emailing your sponsers and will let everyone on the internet know you are a political cancer to gun owners.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Michael I completely agree w/ your posts with two exceptions. The debate raging here is essentially a healthy thing. If this little flap never occurred these feelings would be festering along like they have been since '94 stifling communication between the two factions. I've been watching this closely and even though there's still a lot of yelling and name calling going on there has been an ever increasing amount of dialog and common ground being found. It'll continue and eventually a true common ground will be found based upon a better understanding than we had going into this mess. You think this is bad?Research some of the transcipts of the debates from the origional constitutional convention. Some of the dookie bombs our esteemed founding fathers hurled at each other make this look like a tea party full of old ladies debating what type of flowers to plant around the church! Freedom is a messy, messy process my friend but IMHO it works best when you let it run it's course.The other thing is an issue of personal accountability. These guys are accountible to the people that make their lavish lifetyles possible. Without the guys doing the screaming and yelling out there guys like Petzar wouldn't have the cush jobs that they do. It's not just the field and stream readership it's everyone who buys any product from the industry. So when they piss off the masses then they should expect this kinda stuff. The flip side of this coin is professional accountability. If you make a living from this industry you are required to live up to it's standards. One of those standards is you support 2A. The whole 2A for all industry members not just your part of it. Like I said earlier I was on active duty deployed when it all went down in '94. But I talk with guys every day now that went through those times. According to them it sucked real bad. When the industry provides you a soap box to run your mouth from you are accountible for what you say. Lot's of little guys faced the consequences for one selfish and ill considered statement. The guy who ran his mouth went on to have a pretty good lifestyle and apparently didn't give a whole lot of thought to the guys who did the paying. Sometimes Karma takes a little while to get around to ya but it almost always does.True RegardsKrusty

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Zumbo and Petzal have exersized thier 1st A. rights now we are using ours in response,it's not rocket science.Some people don't like it,tough break that's the way it is.If you don't support the 2nd and my EBR you support the other side.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Look up "Defense" thats personal & if need be national. Got it folks? A this point in our history, defense is Still a need! Not just a Plesant Week End Pastime ! Ya can Love to Hunt with all your heart! Be honest with yourselves. If you are hunting to keep your family fed, God Bless You, may you keep them fed. If thats not the case defense is a little more than a 1 or 50 times a year event, it comes first, or should ! No compromise, no slack !If you see that as the crux of the matter then you will understand !_ Wm Stojack

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from Mike Diehl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

@Dave P.Anyone who writes in the public view often enough on *any* subject with potential value as a political football eventually gets slammed. All I can say is **Good On You** for telling it like it is about Zumbo.FWIW I don't concern myself with whether or not someone hunts with a black rifle. It's not my cup o' coffee, but then it's not ME doing the hunting with one of those things so why would I care? I support owners' rights to own such ghastly, overpriced tire-jacks.

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from Michael wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I enjoyed your analysis and comments. Here is another quote for you:"Today is a day that will go down in history.Today we have complete gun registration (not control-my words)Our police force will be more effective.Our streets will be safer, and many countries will follow our lead into the future."Adolf Hitler 1939Any of that sound familiar?The police force was Hitler's brown shirts/Gestapo.Don't think it can happen in democratic America? It can.That is why I believe we should band together instead of bickering among ourselves and berating each other because some prefer a different style of firearm. (Ever read any of the blogs where bowhunters accuse gun hunters of not being "real hunters"?When the founding fathers wrote the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, the arms of that period were flintlock rifles, pistols, derringers, knives, tomahawks, etc. and people carried them openly to hunt for food, and defend against animals and humans. Does anyone think conditions are much different today? Read about the number of carjackings, muggings, home invasions, abductions, etc. that happen everyday. Ever been attacked by a pit bull when you have been walking in your neighborhood? If I wanted to get literal about the 2nd amendment, I could carry a handgun without having to have a concealed permit governed by state law. The 2nd amendment says I can. Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees. Enough. I am off my soapbox

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Plooker, Wow , by posting that so far along in the dialog, it means that you "Just" found out that "Many in the Mass Media" are not totaly with us. So, have you written a letter to him expressing your differing opinion? E-Mail? Like Dave. Are you there Dave? Plooker, Do you have a name? Or are you a Troll?_____Wm Stojack

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from tim wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

what did Bill O'reilly say?

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from Plooker wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Bill O'Reilly from FOX new is ANTI-GUN!

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To Outdoor Life and all of Mr. Zumbo's sponsors: Voltaire once said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Youpeople are cowards as regards this principle and stabbed a very good man in the back because of petty politics.Nice quote Micheal!Voltaire was a hell of a guy but really liked structure his thoughts like binary code. You know good/bad, right/wrong, on/off, hot/cold. Absolutism has its place and can be a real source of motivation for writing poetry but tends to land you in a world of hurt if you try to apply it to the real world with out tempering it with a little logic. In the real world people should apply analytical thought to the decision making process and then use Absolutism as a litmus test to adjudge the morality of that decision prior to committing to that course of action (COA). Here let me give you an example of using these two classical schools of thought in tandem. Let’s go back to the start of all this and apply both schools of thought in tandemAnalysis: COA # 1 If I side with Sen. Feinstein I can possibly protect the guns I feel are worthwhile at least for a little while. I know that eventually they’ll come for more. Most likely the handguns are next. It’ll probably be another 6 maybe ten more years until they get the handguns. If we get lucky we can satisfy them a while longer with just the automatic handguns because allot of legitimate sportsmen use revolvers and single shots. We may loose the single shots because you can shoot those cop killer 30-30 rounds out of them but we’ll have to cross that bridge when it comes. Let’s see that’ll buy me maybe another ten years before they get rid of the last side arm. Wow by that time I’ll be in my 70’s maybe 80’s. I’ll be able to retire and let someone else worry about it. Gee that works for me but what are the ramifications of my actions. Well some folks are definitely going to loose their right to own a firearm of their choice. It’ll probably kill a chunk of the industry and some good people are going to loose their livelihoods. Those people are probably going to get pissed but hey, what are the chances of the ban actually sun setting and not getting re-established and those guys bootstrapping their section of the industry back to 5 times their previous market share in just a couple of years?COA# 2 If I side with the guys who I don’t agree with and defend their livelihoods and pastimes to the death we may still loose. But then again we may win. If we loose I’ll still be in the exact same position I would be in with COA # 1. I’d be able to talk to those guys and offer genuine sympathy and say hey man I gave it best shot but we get what we wanted. I’m sorry.Absolutism: Both courses of action will pretty much leave me in the same place if we loose and COA # 1 is the easiest for me personally but it kind of gives me a creepy feeling when I think of the black rifle guys taking it in the shorts. COA # 2 has a chance of success and even if I loose I can still look the black rifle crowd in the eye and I’ll still be able to hang on to my guns a little while longer. Hmmmmmm…..”What would Voltaire do?”

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from Marx Kitty wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Democrats GOOD. H.R.861To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.Other Bill TitlesOfficial: To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State. as introduced.All Bill ActionsFeb 06, 2007: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.Introduced on Feb 06, 2007.Bill StatusSession: 110th CongressBill Status: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.Introduced: February 06, 2007Latest Action: Feb 06, 2007: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.Committees: House JudiciaryAmendments: This bill has no amendments.

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

If Zumbo is truely sorry, and has truely had some kind of enlightenment, yes it is a great opportunity for him to become a uniter for us all. I hope he has truely has as and can be one to bring us together. I have doubts, however, until I see tangible acts and statements, not just a couple posts on the Nuge's board.I hope he is truely sorry and has been enlightened. If so, I will gladly accept his apology, for all of our sakes. But it is going to take some convincing for me to believe everything he has stood for and believed for decades is now changed within days.

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

It's true.If your not posting anything about our 2nd A. rights to an EBR,you are suspect!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Danny, No one can reasonably ask for anything more! None of us will be roll-overs again in this fight!_____Wm Stojack

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from Danny Boy wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

There are two kinds of posts here:1) Sophomoric attempts by small-minded individuals on both sides of the "Fudd" debate to stir animosity between "shooters" and "hunters" (when in actuality, most shooters support hunting and most hunters genuinely support the 2A)2) Those that call for shooters and hunters to unite against the common enemy of ALL guns.Let's have less of the former and more of the latter. We're all in this together!As for OL and F&S, they will get no more of my $$$ until some very public and unequivocobal statements are made in favor of the 2nd Amendment, REGARDLESS whether a rifle is used for hunting. I love to hunt, but I'm sick and tired of those hunters with the attitude that the 2A is only for them and their "traditional sporting" guns.The 2A protects only muzzleloaders and bolt actions. Yeah Right. The 1A only protects fountain pens and typewriters.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Have you guys read Zumbo's 2nd apology? C'mon, guys, he made a huge mistake, and is paying for it dearly, and really trying to make up for it any way that he can. What else do you want, his blood? Jesus Christ, do we really want to make this a society where someone can never, ever make a mistake without being crucified and never given a second chance? Have none of you EVER sinned, made a bad judgement call, made a mistake, betrayed someone unknowingly and unintentionally? Let he who is without sin...Give the guy a break, already - he can now become one of your best supporters by having seen the light.And remember: Those who are slow to forgive will receive forgiveness slowly themselves. We are all human, we all make mistakes. Damage done or not, it's still plentuy of opportunity to turn this around.A convert makes the greatest and strongest ally!http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_102302.aspJim Zumbo posted a second apology on Ted Nugent's Internet Forum. It reads as follows:"The last few days have been an educational experience, to say the least. My ill-conceived inflammatory blog, as all of you now know, set off a firestorm that, I’m told, has never before been equaled. I’m not proud of that.Let me say this at the outset. My words here are from the heart, and all mine. No one can censor me, and I answer to no one but myself. And I have no one to blame but myself. Outdoor Life, a magazine that I worked for full-time as Hunting Editor for almost 30 years, fired me yesterday. My TV show was cancelled yesterday. Many of my sponsors have issued statements on their website to sever all relationships. This may cause many of you to do backflips and dance in the streets, but, of course, I’m not laughing, nor am I looking for sympathy. I don’t want a pity party.They say hindsight is golden. Looking back, I can’t believe I said the words “ban” and “terrorist” in the context that I did. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I can explain this as sheer ignorance and an irresponsible use of words. What I’ve learned over the last few days has enlightened and amazed me. As a guy who hunts 200 days a year, does seminars on hunting, wrote for six hunting magazines, had a hunting TV show, and wrote 20 books on hunting, how could I have been so ignorant and out of touch with reality in the world of hunting and shooting?But I was. I really can’t explain it, maybe because I just summarily dismissed the firearms in question in my mind when I saw them in magazines and catalogs. I saw one “black” firearm in a hunting camp in all my 50 years of hunting, and I shot one last year off a boat when fishing in Alaska. To tell the truth, it was fun and I enjoyed it immensely, but I never considered one for use in hunting. I have to tell you that I have had a revelation. I’m learning that many of my pals own AR-15’s and similar firearms and indeed use them for hunting. I was totally unaware that they were being used for legitimate hunting purposes. That is the absolute truth.My biggest regret is not the financial impact of all this. I’m almost 67 and retirement is an option. The dreadful impact here is that I inadvertently struck a spear into the hearts of the people I love most…America’s gun owners. And, even though this huge cadre of dedicated people have succeeded in stripping me of my career, I hold no grudges. I will continue to stand as firm on pro hunting as I’ve ever done. But what’s different now is that I’ll do all I can to educate others who are, or were, as ignorant as I was about “black” rifles and the controversy that surrounds them. My promise to you is that I’ll learn all I can about these firearms, and by the time this week is out, I’ll order one. The NUGE has invited me to hunt with him using AR-15’s, and I’m eager to go, and learn. I’ll do all I can to spread the word.I understand that many of you will not accept this apology, believing that the damage has been done and there’s no way to repair it. You have that right. But let me say this. I mentioned this above, and I’ll repeat it. I’m willing to seize this opportunity to educate hunters and shooters who shared my ignorance. If you’re willing to allow me to do that, we can indeed, in my mind, form a stronger bond within our ranks. Maybe in a roundabout way we can bring something good out of this.Jim Zumbo"

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Just ask Michael if he supports your 2nd A. rights to an EBR,If not-he's been exposed.It's really easy!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

It's getting beter now! Now this issue is on of "Petty Politics" Petty? The First Amend. protects Freedom of Speech. Not Public Opinion of that Speech, as it should be. Maybe Dave has been detained, against his will for what he has written! Naw, that would be a violation of the First, not commentary on it. We have that Right also ! Think this is rough, try some of the EBR sites ,if you dare. We are being for the most part, very civil. And as Mr Z found out, we have a bit of purchasing power. I suggest you take the time and as long as it takes, read All that has been said previously by others far better than I. All the points, other than emotionally have been covered. ______ Wm Stojack

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Michael - I'm sorry! I should have realized that those 'other rights' you talk about are only for the likes of Zumbo and Petzal.After all THEY are well known "good' men and I am just an average guy. If they want to insult me and cast me to the wolves I should be happy that they even know I exist.After all Their wants and needs are much more important than my rights. From now on I'll just go sit in the back of the bus and be quite. Is that all right master??

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"I don't expect every outdoor writer to write only about what I want to read nor agree with my convictions. It is time for some of the gun owners of America to grow up and start working together. Remember! Divide and conquer has long been an effective military and political tactic. Smart anti gun politicians will use this rift among hunters, target shooters, military collectors etc.. against us if we continue to argue."Don't you see, though. As shooters, we thought the "hunters" and "gun writers" were with us. Turns out, when they speak what they really believe, they are not with us. They are for themselves and would sell out other gunowners to try to protect their pastime. That is why so many gun rights supporters are upset. It is the hunters who have forsaken us or have never been with us, not the other way around.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Lets see now, We are running people off that can help us! Heard the same comments in '94 (NRA membership nosedived). Lets see, Humm! Lets sing Kum-Ba-Yah! We age to vitrolic,hateful,etc. Those are buzzwords used mostly when you don't agree with what someone else is saying, but can't deny the truth or reality of what they are saying! And yes we as a result of growing older have retained a knowledge of what happened then. And now our BullShit Meters are a little more sensitive. Not to get off the subject but, Dave are you there Dave? You apparently have not noticed, the Antis don't rely on anything that will not help them. They Create Any Thing They Care Too! Truth is not needed, nor used if not suitable for their purposes. ______Wm Stojack

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Their is only one question to ask anybody that is posting here.Do you support the 2nd and my right to an EBR.If not I could care less how emotinal your feeling and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!

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from Michael wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The pen is mightier than the sword...you can cut your own throat with one. Oh well, opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one. Here's mine-I don't believe either Zumbo or Petzal are siding with the antigun fanatics. Zumbo made a mistake voicing his opinion (to which he is entitled;the 2nd amendment is not the only one in the Constitution) However, in America today there are lots of fanatics; and people in the public eye have to watch very carefully what they say or write. Consider politicians; they have elevated this personal survival tactic to an art form. I applaud Zumbo & Petzal for stating their opinions even if I don't agree with them. I read many hunting, shooting, reloading, etc. columns mainly for information and entertainment. Most of the time its more entertainment than info. I don't expect every outdoor writer to write only about what I want to read nor agree with my convictions. It is time for some of the gun owners of America to grow up and start working together. Remember! Divide and conquer has long been an effective military and political tactic. Smart anti gun politicians will use this rift among hunters, target shooters, military collectors etc.. against us if we continue to argue.To Outdoor Life and all of Mr. Zumbo's sponsors: Voltaire once said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Youpeople are cowards as regards this principle and stabbed a very good man in the back because of petty politics.

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from Sherlock Holmes wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Fellow gunowners, don't be taken in by some of these posters spouting their venom about the NRA. Most are members of the AHSA, which is a shill group for the anti-gunners.Ignore their threats when they say they are cancelling their memberships because they were never members to begin with. They are onlly here to divide us.

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To these people that say they're leaving the NRA and doin all the pissin and moanin about how sad they are and on and on.It's obvious that you never thought suppoting the 2nd was very important to begin with and more than likely you would do more damage than good to most any cause concerning our gun rights.

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from KJ wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Zumbo made a mistake. As best as I can tell he has owned up to it and is taking the heat for it like a man. As one who has been accused of speaking out of turn on a couple of occassions I appreciate the honesty and candor Zumbo has displayed. Some of the hysteria posted on this blog is way over the top:"I liken it to a Jewish man in Nazi Germany in WWII learning that his brother was a member of the Nazi party.""YOU WROTE A INJUSTICE DAVE! YOU SOLD US OUT PERIOD!!!!""I think Petzal is the John Kerry of gun writers."Wow. The shooting community is not served by such vitriolic attacks. Debate - yes. But the rest of this stuff just makes us look even worse in the eyes of the voting non-shooting public.Neither Petzal nor Zumbo is a sell-out. They have considered opinions and are free to express them. They may disagree with yours. Deal with it. Their opinions may change over the years. As I've grown older some of my opinions have changed on a variety of subjects (yes, I knew it all when I was 20; 20-some years later I know less than I did then).Enough said.

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

You see it is not that we can blast FUDDs from our midst that the Brady Bunch is afraid of. It is that if we are smart we will settle ours differences and together take aim at them. They try to divide and conquer it is a tactic which has worked for them. Be smarter!

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

See if the wedge won't work from one side.....they will try the other. Not going to work folks we are smarter than that!

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"I'm done with the NRA and the way the immediately turned their back on a 40 year member. I'm done with f&S and OL and remington and the rest of the sponsors who ran like cowards. I'm done with the black gun crowd and the walnut and steel crowd. I'm not donating any more time and/or money to any gun groups period. "Boy, I'm sorry we're losing such a strong gun rights supporter as you.

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

If by "Slick" you are referring to me then I should tell you I do not hunt. I don't own and AR yet either although I want one. I do have a SAR-1 AK variant and I enjoy target practice.And no to be weeding out the FUDDs of this world I applaud. But to abandon any group of gun owners would be a mistake on everyone's part. There is nothing better or worse about any lawful use of a firearm. All uses constitute "keeping and bearing arms".The Brady Bunch would like nothing better than to try and divide us. So when people post they are leaving the NRA I have to suspect that they may be folks not trying to strengthen our cause but rather trying to divide it.I know many do not agree with the everything the NRA does but in a large group that is always the case. I am just saying they are the largest and best chance for us all to help us stand up for our rights.

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from Captain Yahoo wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

First we're yahoos, now we're just a bunch of people who don't read your blog. LMAO. How many tiers are in your gun-owning hierarchy, Petzal? Is a Yahoo above or below a non-reader and why is it that you seem to believe that neither can legitimately comment on Zumbo and on your written support of anti-gun positions?I know that it pains you royals to be reminded of the past, but we commoners do have long memories, Petzal. What is more, we also have wallets.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Slick ,If you are confusing us with the Bradys , I respectfully suggest you go piss in a bottle, you are in dire need of a drug test. That or you want to remain in your Outdoorsie version of Wally-World. The "Wolf" is kicking in the Cabin Door. Its not '94 this time! Next time you go to the store ( you know, get them provisions ya just caint get out in the Field) look at the Magazine Rack. You know, its where you have to dig thru all them pesky EBR "trash paper" to get to the new issue of "Chase,Gut & Hang" to see what group is after "Huntin Now!" Well it must be a news flash, people Buy Those Magazines! What I'm leading up to is a shocking concept for you, I know that. Ya Sittin Down Pard, There are manny more "Shooters" Than there are "Hunters". How did that happen ? Simple when you look past the deer-hide. A lot of us are former or still military. We have been to Bad Places & seen what happens when the people have the form of govt will not allow them to have "defensive" firearms. So a lot of us have seen what this brings firsthand. Its a thought that sticks. And as an afterthought, those folks for the mostpart are not mighty hunters to survive, they are farmers & store keepers, & teachers,etc. Someone has to keep the lights on in town! So ,we learn from our observations, history, etc. And when we see things headed that way, yes we are making a stand. And yes, there are a lot of us, yes we are adamnant,yes we are vocal.Yes we have a common goal. So now is the time to cowboy-up,feel the wind in your face ,Wm Stojack take a deep breath, swallow hard & Join Us in the Fight. That or step aside! ____

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from Grant Gable wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I need a price check.It is a basic tenet of maturation to discover that all that glitters is not gold. Every nickel spent for "security" must be taken from one person and chipped away at by each bureaucracy along the way. Not only are bureaucratic means unjustifiable, the end (security) is a pipe dream. Calling something secure (e.g., "Social Security") does not make it so. In fact, it practically ensures the equal and opposite outcome as we now witness with the crumbling and evaporation of social safety nets. When we become completely responsible for ourselves, everything changes. We can no longer identify with other "victims" of life who want to be taken care of with the guns of government pointed at our neighbors. We begin to identify with mature people who take complete responsibility for their experience of life and realize that those guns are being pointed at us too. We begin to see that freedom is essential to the pursuit one's own happiness and the irrational desire for security, even though it once glimmered brightly, becomes too costly when measured up against liberty - the Hope Diamond of human existence - invaluable and only obtainable at the greatest cost, the loss of your illusions.

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Folks don't be sucked in by the Brady Bunch posting here to try and drive wedges.If you go read Jim Zumbo's own comments on the subject. He realises that it was his own fault that his downfall occured and that it came about not from the NRA but from a grassroots effort.He has promised to work to reunite this 2nd ammendment community of ours now.The NRA is the largest of several organizations which attempt to protect our rights. Now more than ever we need to take aim at the real enemy. The gun grabbers!

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from Brian in Oregon wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

And some comments concerning the Fudd post above:"Are you people still at it? Brush your teeth, put on your NRA pajamas and go to sleep. Tomorrow when dawn breaks we can all rejoice in the irreparable damage we've done to gun owners. I've never seen this group so fractured. Petzal and Zumbo may have said some stupid things, but I've never seen the amount of hateful, ridiculous, divisive garbage vomited up on this blog and others in my life. I'm done."Whoa there pardner, WHO has been doing irreparable damage to gunowners, fracturing them, with hateful, ridiculous, divisive garbage being vomited up on this blog and others? It's none other than those who are responsible for this mess in the first place - backstabbing Fudds like Zumbo and Petzal, who advocated banning certain firearms because of their cosmetic features. WHO called some law-abiding gunowners "terrorists" simply because they owned a certain kind of firearm? Zumbo.Before you start acting indignant and pointing fingers, you better get your facts and time line straight. WE did not start this. Zumbo did.

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from Brian in Oregon wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

""Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons. "The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma".An Uzi or an AKM or an AK-47 should be no more generally available than a Claymore mine or a block of C4 explosive." David E. Petzal 1994"David Petzel pulled a "Zumbo" 13 years before Jim did. He's lucky the new word for backstabbing other gunowners isn't "Petzelling".The upshot from all this is that the bitter resentment of those who the Fudds have literally crapped on all these years has finally hit the fan. Many of us are, and have been for a long time, fed up with Fudds.We are tired of being told by some pipe smoking, plaid jacket wearing, fair weather friend gun owner that we should not own a firearm other than one with wood stocks. There is no difference between Zumbo (and Petzel for that matter) and the old fellow at the last gunshow I went to who walked around and said at every booth with a "black rifle" that "Thet's them aye-salt wippins what's gunna git us ouh gun rayhts all taken 'way. Yessir'" This guy was soooo stereotypical of Fudds, yet there he was, in living flesh and blood.Fudds, wake up and smell the coffee. The boat is sinking, and somehow you think you can save yourself by tossing everyone else overboard. Those days are gone.

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from Dave wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Are you people still at it? Brush your teeth, put on your NRA pajamas and go to sleep. Tomorrow when dawn breaks we can all rejoice in the irreparable damage we've done to gun owners. I've never seen this group so fractured. Petzal and Zumbo may have said some stupid things, but I've never seen the amount of hateful, ridiculous, divisive garbage vomited up on this blog and others in my life. I'm done.I'm done with the NRA and the way the immediately turned their back on a 40 year member. I'm done with f&S and OL and remington and the rest of the sponsors who ran like cowards. I'm done with the black gun crowd and the walnut and steel crowd. I'm not donating any more time and/or money to any gun groups period. I'll take my chances and if the bans pass, so be it. I have been shooting and hunting for 30 years and I can't believe how we all turned on one another. I'm done.Posted by: unhappygunowner | February 26, 2007 at 01:25 AM*****Don't let the door hit you in the ass. This purge ain't over, and all you traitor Fudds better figure out that the Second Amendment ain't 'bout hunt'n, its about firearms ownership.Suck it up and get with the program Fudds.******

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from unhappygunowner wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Run Away, Run Away, Quit the NRA! Kinda almost rimes! Thats the spirit ! Glad your covering our "6"' I'm sure Dave appreciates it, especially quiting F & S. Are you anwhere Dave ? _____Wm StojackDave's probably doing what I will as of now, ignore your petulant (you might need to look that up) response and let you head rest on your NRA pillow. Be sure to kiss your picture of Wayne LaPierre before you nod off.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Run Away, Run Away, Quit the NRA! Kinda almost rimes! Thats the spirit ! Glad your covering our "6"' I'm sure Dave appreciates it, especially quiting F & S. Are you anwhere Dave ? _____Wm Stojack

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Run Away, Run Away, Quit the NRA! Kinda almost rimes! Thats the spirit ! Glad your covering our "6"' I'm sure Dave appreciates it, especially quiting F & S. Are you anwhere Dave ? _____Wm Stojack

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Run Away, Run Away, Quit the NRA! Kinda almost rimes! Thats the spirit ! Glad your covering our "6"' I'm sure Dave appreciates it, especially quiting F & S. Are you anwhere Dave ? _____Wm Stojack

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from Big Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Zumbo aside, the beginnings of this battle were lost approximately 100 years ago. At that time, the last of the American Frontier was being over-run and that was the last time that sportsmen and the military used equivalent guns. Since then, it has been one long dichotomy between the "black gun" folks and those that shoot Remington, Colt, and Winchester.It's probably too late now. but if anybody wants to take a shot (pardon the phrase) at changing the future, now is the time. Take your neighbor to the range. Educate a kid about safe gun handling. Hell, just take someone out in the field for a walk with the dog.It's been said that reality is the sum of all probablilities with a numerical value of one. If that is the case, then there are still a few 0.997's out there that don't involve Ms. Clinton. Have at it!

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from unhappygunowner wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Are you people still at it? Brush your teeth, put on your NRA pajamas and go to sleep. Tomorrow when dawn breaks we can all rejoice in the irreparable damage we've done to gun owners. I've never seen this group so fractured. Petzal and Zumbo may have said some stupid things, but I've never seen the amount of hateful, ridiculous, divisive garbage vomited up on this blog and others in my life. I'm done.I'm done with the NRA and the way the immediately turned their back on a 40 year member. I'm done with f&S and OL and remington and the rest of the sponsors who ran like cowards. I'm done with the black gun crowd and the walnut and steel crowd. I'm not donating any more time and/or money to any gun groups period. I'll take my chances and if the bans pass, so be it. I have been shooting and hunting for 30 years and I can't believe how we all turned on one another. I'm done.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

If I was aware of who you were refering to as US I might call your numbers (20%) into question. But I do know the numbers on a group I am a part of, so I'll stick with those. I routinely remind politicians about them. Over all 97% are registered, of that in excess of 92% exercise that franchise routinely (thats pol-speak for EVERY TIME!) That their numbers ( My area alone) are 225 Thousand. And they are very aware of ALL the Amendments, and the threats posed to them. They are the Veterans of our Country. That I can speak of! _____Wm Stojack

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from Skeeter wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Brady Bunch must Go!

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from El-Wazir wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey, morons! You know what's REALLY pathetic?It's the fact that only about 20 percent of us are even registered to vote!We're all talk and very little action.

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from as moeggs wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

WEll DP, there are somethings I have disagreed with you on. One, your sarcasm towards law enforcement sometimes goes overboard, but I do see your rational in these last two blogs. There are few good outdoor/gun writers left, hopefully Zumbo will show up somewhere else.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Thats a good point jh45gun. I don't think the spirits of Skeeter,Keith,Cooper Askins ,Et Al are really resting easily right about now. I don't think that they would be quite as calm as we have been in discussing this. What do you think Dave? Dave are you there Dave ? I think Dave is probably "lurking". More response than you have ever had before, right Dave!__________Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Sage Sam and roger reeves,1. We are getting bent out of shape and vigourously defending 2A. We have been ever since the sellout of '94.2. The NRA had and has absolutely nothing to do with the chastisment that Mr. Petzar is recieving. He brought it entirely on himself. Many of the irrate folks you've been hearing from were too young to remember his duplicitous conduct in '94 others simply didn't know. Some of us remember first hand and that makes his current comments all the more heinous. If he is so worth your support why are all these people so mad at him. If you are really his friend urge him to do the right thing which would be to own up to what he did then and now and issue a full and sincere apology.

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

David the quisling, are you out there Sir Quisling?

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from jh45gun wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Another gun writer who does not get it and has no clue about the Second Amendment! The Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting yet every one who should know better confuses that fact. If you condone banning any sort of gun it may come back to haunt you when they want your favorite scatter gun or pistol, rifle ect. The gun grabbers will not stop in their agenda to get rid of all guns. I wish some of the crop of gun writers we have today would get a clue and write like the writers of the past did. At least they knew what they were talking about.

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from Peta sucks wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The EBR owners are tired of being marginalized by not only the Brady Crowd, but also by the Petzal and Zumbo crowds which are a bunch of elitist snobs in the shooting sports who think that there is such a thing as 'reasonable restrictions' on gun ownership.These Fudds who you would think might be on our side, are actually in favor of gun control as long as it doesn't affect their favorite sacred cow.You would think they might be a tad more willing to see that there is ZERO difference between a Long Range Sniper Rifle that can penetrate a cops bullet proof vest, and your basic scoped hunting rifle.But, again, from where I sit, they just don't get it.The Fudds like Petzal and Zumbo will throw us under the bus in a New York minute. This is why they are so dangerous and need their soapboxes taken away from them.The Fudds convinced the NRA to toss the Machine gun owners off the bus in 1986. Fifty calibers are probably gonna be next. Then, probably either handguns or scoped 'sniper' rifles. Then finally, shotguns.After that is complete, they will probably go after the fishing sports.EBR owners, machine gunners, hunters, traps shooters, bench rest shooters, and yes, even Fudds need to stand together, or we're going to lose it all.

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mr. Petzel sits in an ivory tower that we paid for and calls legal EBR owners:mental patients,yahoos,rabid,chatroom heroes,foul mouthed and vicious.He seems to be a CHERRY PICKER that feels he is above us rather than one of us, as he judges while we carry out our God given 1st A. rights in any language some may choose!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Thats the spirit Sam, you'll show them! Quit the NRA, well thought out! Ya going to burn those Remingtons too? After all, they were the first to react to 'ole Zumbo ( never did like them much,huh ) I'm sure Dave needs your support, right Dave? Dave, are you there Dave?____Wm Stojack____PS: Grew up reading F &S. Dad won a few of the fishing contests way back when.

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from Roger E. Reeves, Sr. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

If all you jerks would get as bent out of shape over a item such as this, why not put forth a little of your energy to save our guns. A bill not before congress to ban even more guns is facig us now, and all you can do is bitch about a statement a guy wrote about 2 guns. Most of us prefer a certain weapon to hunt with, I know I do, and if someone don't like it, tuff stuff. I will continue to use what I got or want, be it a 22 RF or a Cannon. Thats one reason the gun mfgers make so many different guns, is because we all want something different. Like the WSM's and now the WSSM's, which all of those did nothing but sell more guns. The old standard calibers we all used for years, are yet by far better guns than the short, faty stubby junk in plastic stocks. So bitch on, and one day, when the deputy comes to your house to get your AK's or etc. remember you started the mess.In closing, if it takes more than 2 or 3 shots to down your game, you need to pratice or don;t shoot a mile away. I have hunted the Rockies many times, and have killed Elk,.Mulies, W-tails, Antelopes and only once, did I need a 2nd shot. But, I;m pretty sure I can make the shot before I pull the trigger. If you pratice enough and know where your gun shoots, then you only need l shot if you have the gun zeroed proper. Try saying something positive about gun ownership and let the other guy have his say, same as you. We all will be better off in the end results.O for the record, my hunting rifles for the Rockies are a 700 Rem.30.06 in 180 gr Bonded Polymer tip; and a 700 Rem.25.06 ll5 gr.Ballistic tip both are zeroed in at 200 yds, and I do use a rangefinder before I shoot unless game in my lap. Hey, I;m looking for a Sears/J/C/Higgins Model 50, in 270/30-06 anyone got one for sell?

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from Sage Sam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal-Please remember that for every one of the ranting inbreds calling for your head, there are 10 hunters that enjoy your coumns and believe that you impart valueble information that we can utilize. Also, please note that due to the NRA's indefensible behavior towards Jim Zumbo and a myriad of other insane actions, I have cancelled my membership. I believe in the right to own firearms--any and all firearms--but I also believe in civility and giving a man a fair shake.

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from larry T. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal,Your a traitor to gun rights in America. Its people like you who prostitute themselves to the enemy to save their own skins when times are hard. Field and stream needs to get rid of you.Also, get your head out of your ass. Their are millions of semi-automatic weapons in America. There is alot more than 250 people that are enraged over Zumbo and know your comments.Your a traitor to all gun related sports, and your a traitor to the right of self defense. If I want to protect myself with an assault weapon, I do not need you to tell me otherwise. If I want any more shit from you, Ill squeeze your head and watch shit dribble out.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

One quick clarification on my last post above folks. My comments concerning Mr. Zumbo are in reference to his conduct Prior to his last public appology on Ted Nudgent's board. I have since accepted his appology publicaly and nothing has changed. I applaud ODL for doing the right thing. I also commend Mr. Zumbo for eventually giving a full and sincere appology. He has pledged to do all he can to make right what he made wrong. I humbly request that we as a shooting community allow him the opportunity to redress this situation.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Walt, You might have noticed that a bill didn't make it there! Why? Because the Antis got the message that it was political Finiti! to push one. Do a little research on the quotes from Gore & Clintons comments about pushing for it ! Being Anti has cost a Lot of election, more to come !And why do you think that was the outcome? We have been active on the 2A issues for a Couple of Days now. Great move on Bushs part, by the way. Its called TACTICS ! The '94 Ban died after we hammered them ! _____ Wm Stojack

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from Harry Cole wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, I am appalled that you have failed to realize that the "pretty" rifle technlogy that you have embraced in deference to what you consider a "weapon of war" are actually one in the same.The internationally licenced Mauser design that fought in two world wars as the apex of military weapons technology lives on in every turn-bolt rifle you've ever used, even if it now wore inlaid gold and was hafted by the most elegant fiddle back walnut.The "black rifle" typified by the designs of Stoner and Kalashnikov and are the same. Rugged, reliable, accurate, and not liable to the whims of zero-shifting changing humidity. And the better ones will whup the average bolt-gun on the target range quite handily, hence their popularity in the prairie-dog fields that took Zumbo by surprise.You're writing has been entertaining over the years, but you have unfortunatly become a literary dinosaur that has at best is lost touch with many of you readers, and at worst has served to fuel ignorance regarding modern sporting weapons. If that is not bad enough, you have totally ignored the sacred protections payed for with the blood of patriots and provided to dilute the power of a government among its people. The second ammendment is about something infinitly more imortant than hunting ducks with a two-thousand dollar Italian scattergun.I respect your right to voice your opinions in accordance with the second ammendment of said constitution, but also reserve my right to withhold my support of any literary firm that chooses to feature you.Good day,Hary Cole

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from JWI wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I'll put it this way. Maybe then someone will realize that we are not messing around about this.F&S. I WILL BE SENDING IN NOTIFICATION VIA FAX AND CALL TO CUSTOMER SERVICE TO CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION TO YOUR PUBLICATION. I AM ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER PUBLICATIONS OWNED BY YOUR PARENT COMPANY AND WILL BE CANCELLING SUBSCRIPTIONS WITH THEM AS WELL.Also. I will be reviewing the advertisers in my previous issues, specifically the ones who have helped to compensate Mr. Petzal and will no longer deal with them in regards to pending or future purchases. Thank you. If you cannot support my rights as a legal firearms owner, I cannot support your right for life, liberty and the pursuit of financial gains at my expense.Krusty. WELL PUT SIR!

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from Paul wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

When are you gun goons going to impeach your President Bush? He said that he would sign the "assult weapon ban" if Congress would bring him a bill on it. That is a FACT. Instead you chastise an outdoor writer for making a personal comment! WOW, talk about having it brass backwards!

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from walter m greer wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Sir You are confused. My Ruger #1 manlicher 270 is for hunting. My AK47 and my Garrand are to protect me and mine agianst the government and their tyranny. (you know the Constitution. we still have one, and they wern't talking about hunting in the 2nd ammendment.) thats all.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Outstanding ! ,Very Well put Sir ,(thats Krusty). Are you getting any of this Dave. Earth to Dave? _____ Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

**** Quote What happened to Zumbo should have been done quietly with emails, not publicly on blogs. End Quote******WRONG. What happened to Mr. Zumbo never would have happened quietly with e-mails. Firstly he publicly insulted a large part of his own community whose purchases fund his lavish lifestyle. Keep in mind he was on a varmint hunt paid for by Remington Arms. For every 1 round of Remington Brand .223 ammo that is fired out of a “sporting arm” 50 or more are fired out of a black rifle. So he richly deserved the public roasting he received in return. Secondly an email campaign would have taken weeks to put together and as they dribbled in to OL they would have been quietly deleted. Mr. Zumbo would have stood on his original mealy mouthed non-apology (or none at all) and the Antis would have been able to say “see the Sportsman of America agree! They afford this guy a lavish lifestyle of hunting for free and they’re not complaining about what he said so there fore there really is no place for black guns in sport”. Sorry folks that’s the same way that Petzar did us in ’94. Never again!***Quote Do you think looking like a rabid, hair-trigger Rambo is going to further your cause? Like it or not, you're a minority within a minority…… As hard as it may be for you to swallow, Petzal was right when he said black rifles are a burden on the rest of the shooting community, simply because of the mistaken image they project, but since my rights are unbreakably attached to the rights of the Rambos, its my responsibility to protect them.End Quote***WRONG You specifically Tim are one of the people creating our “perception problem”. I’m “rabid and hair triggered “ because I have the nerve to come on your forum and take a man to task for insulting my friends, supporting a man who called me a terrorist, and sold me out in ’94 then lied about it? As has been pointed out earlier, more gun owners in this country shoot or keep a weapon for defense than hunt. Your specifically Tim despite your protest to the contrary are a text book Fudd and you don’t even know it. I’m not saying this to get a rise out of you or insult you (even though you called me a “RAMBO” how many times in your post?) I’m trying to demonstrate to you why we’re so upset. Have you ever been to a 3-gun match? Have you ever been to Camp Perry or any other AR dominated shooting venue? Have you ever been to a FCSA event? No you probably haven’t (and yes I’m generalizing here but if this doesn’t exactly fit your situation there are many too whom it does) but yet you just characterized me as a Rambo. You are defending and agreeing with a man who blatantly sold out a portion of his own community back in ’94. Then despite being confronted with his very words denies it. His comments were the centerpiece of our opposition and by taking the stance that he did persuaded countless other gun owners to sit that one out. As a consequence hundreds of people’s livelihoods collapsed overnight. People were laid off or companies just folded, and the entire EBR industry had to scrape and scrounge just to get by. The big companies with gov contracts and or diverse product lines were ok but the little guys got hammered! Then he has the unmitigated gall to say what he’s been saying recently. Let me tell you what it sounded like from my perspective “You guys weren’t all that important back then but hey it’s ok your important now that you’ve overcome the swift kick in the groin that I dealt you and oh by the way I owned (or shot) a black rifle all along. Thanks for supporting my lavish lifestyle with your purchases from companies that treat me like a prince in return for softball product reviews” But you just want us to be quiet Tim. It’s ok you’re going to do your responsibility and protect my 2nd Amendment Rights? You think we’re an anchor around your neck that you so nobly bare for the good of all? Sorry but it’s the other way around. The last time around we thought you would stand up for us. I remember telling people “Hey with all the Hunters in this country and the money they spend we’ll be ok ‘cause we’re all in this together”. Boy was I ever wrong. From my perspective a portion of the Hunters in this country rode that one out because the grand and all knowing Fudd, David E. Petzar told them too. Its ok, Senator Feinstein promised me she’ll only take the black rifles. Get used to it Tim; the EBR demographic is expanding at roughly twice the rate that the Pure Hunting demographic is declining. We buy 100 times the ammo you do per capita and spend 2 times what you do on each gun purchased. But don’t worry about it since OUR guns are first on the list you’re included in our efforts to defend 2A by default. Since many of us hunt all manner of game with our guns (which are every bit as capable as a bolt gun in like caliber) your hunting rights are going to be defended as well.**** Quote Its also time for the Rambos to grow up and accept the responsibility of projecting a positive image…… [You need to] be self policing. End Quote****RIGHT We had a rude awakening in ’94. I shoot with lots of AR guys. We are heavily inundated with Military folks (not militia looney rambo’s). On average we spend way more time shooting so are more familiar with our weapons and have way better muzzle awareness and other safety habits than the guy who touches his gun 10 times a year. We spent over $18 million dollars last year on professional training courses. We contributed about 1500% more in ammo excise taxes to conservation than you (pure hunters) did last year. The average tactical carbine course requires the student to bring over 1000 rounds of ammunition for 4-5 days range time and can cost as high as $1000 per day. Courses are usually at capacity. I went on my favorite EBR/Tactical site last night and did a rough accounting of 28 posting members based on the bio’s they provide when joining. The results aren’t statistically perfect but as near as I can figure our demographics break down as roughly 20% active duty military, 20% current LEO (law enforcement officer)30% Non LEO former military (many retired after 20+ years service) and the rest just good old American gun enthusiasts (many of the later college students. Many of the guys outside of active duty Military and LEO categories are PSC (private security contractors overseas) who carry a privately purchased black rifle every day and have to stake their lives on it. But according to you we’re just a bunch of “hair triggered Rambos”. You say we need to grow up and police our own! I’ll tell you what WE ARE POLICING OUR OWN RIGHT NOW BECAUSE LIKE IT OR NOT WE ARE STUCK WITH YOU NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. THE POSITIVE IMAGE WE’VE BEEN FORCED TO ADOPT DUE TO BEING SOLD OUT LAST TIME IS ONE OF AGGRESSIVE VIGILANCE. WE WILL MOBILIZE AT A MOMENTS NOTICE AND DEFEND THE 2A BY EVERY LEGAL MEANS AVAILIBLE. IF YOU ARE PART OF THE FIREARMS COMMUNITY WE WILL HOLD YOU TO AN EVEN HIGHER STANDARD OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

JOIN JOIN JOIN THE NRA TODAY!!!

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

From Dpeacher:== Ode to David Petzal ===When they came for the machine guns, I said nothing because I didn't have a machine gun, and I didn't think they should be used for hunting.When they came for the "assault" rifles, I called them "terrorist" rifles because I didn't have a "terrorist" rifle, and I didn't think they should used for hunting.When they came for my bolt action scoped deer rifle, they called it a "sniper" rifle... and there was nobody left to stand up for me because I had already sacrificed too many of my fellow citizens Rights by trying to keep my own little 'hunting' world safe from the gun grabbers.

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from Uncle Tom wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Fudds ran the NRA for a long time, Wayne La Pierre and others are from the gun rights side of the coin. The ILA is a fairly new part of the NRA, take a look at what they are doing. I know of know other organization that has the combined membership of hunters/shooters or the clout politically that the NRA does. Dems are not stupid, they remember the hammering they took at the polls and losing Congress for the first time in memory. That this was a temporary set back rather than a permanent re-alignment has more to do with Republican foolishness than anything good on their part. And this is not straight party line either, there are gun grabbers in both parties and most of the "new" Dems in Congress are Southern Conservatives(Blue Dog Dems) that support at least some gun rights. We were sold out in 86 by Repubs and Dems, 94 too. '68, Brady bill, AW ban, 86 executive order all had Dem and Rep fingerprints on them. The NRA today is much more about RKBA than they were 30 years ago- it got that way because a bunch of folks cared enough to band together and elect like minded folks. If you haven't looked at the NRA in a while, you should- I like what I see now, and I am a member today. And the membership as a whole can stand together on these issues, it does not divide the NRA like it does the gun community as a whole- at least the Zumbo's and Fudds don't run the NRA today, and that is because people did exactly what you suggest. Check it out. No, I am not selling memberships- but I certainly encourage it for anyone who cares about RKBA, hunting, shooting, or civil rights. The NRA is the one going after "Chocolate" Nagin in NO. Check them out, I think you will see I am right.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hello Dave, Is anybody home ? Hello, Hello! It is us the Un-Washed rabble , Dave? Just wanted to know what he feels about the Hunting-Elite in the UK ? Have they got the right idea there Dave ?_________ Wm Stojack

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from Anglican wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Without such a clear picture, public policy will go wrong, remedies will be applied to the problem that are not remedies, and the revolution will continue to advance. Make no mistake: false, whitewashed history is a weapon of the revolution. Don't let yourself become a victim.People who ask 'what should we, as a society, do' about a given problem always conclude that we need more laws, policies and programs as if we did not have enough already. America has more social programs than any other country on the planet. Insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. We drive ourselves crazy enacting more and more laws, policies and programs while the problems we attempt to solve get worse and worse. This problem is only caused by a small number of individuals. We are actively targeting those individuals.

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from 7.62Superman wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Scares the crap out of you elites when the peons start to fight back, don't it Dave?

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Dave, You still there? Don't know if your aware of it, over on the "Nuges" site they seem to have shut down all the threads on Zumbo when folks started asking what Sponsors Booths they were going to be present at the next ShotShow in Vegas'08. Just a simple question, Thanks in advance for your speedy reply, ____Wm Stojack

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from Jayhawker wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Walt: You say"Lordy,Lordy,Lordy, what a crock of ****, I'vealways heard that you could say anything in this country(Remember 1st Admendmant) but now it seems that you can only say what you want to only if it's okay with your bosses and the general public. "You need a little education about the First Amendment...which protects "political speech" ...this means that you cant be jailed for "sedition" or speaking out against the government. There is nothing in the 1A that absolves you from the consequences of the words regarding other subjects you speak in a public forum...Mr. Zumbo is a perfect example of this...he said something that a large number of people took umbrage to. They in turn wnet to his employer and sponsors and voived their displeasure...and to reinforce that displeasure advised that they would no longer buy their products...the rest is history....

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

By the way, help oppose HR 1022, which could ban millions of more firearms than the original AWB!!This site will allow you to easily find your Congressman/woman:http://www.govtrack.us/And here is a sample letter you can use, found on http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5682&postdays=0&postorder=asc&... (fill in names of Reps and Senators):I am a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen, a voter, and a gun owner. I expect you, as my representative in Washington, to uphold not only the letter but also the spirit of the Second Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms is essential to our continued freedom, both as a nation and as a people.If you are at all familiar with firearms, then you will know that the new ban that is being proposed (H.R. 1022) is absolutely & completely without merit . As in the previous failed ban, the restrictions are entirely cosmetic, and will in no way stop the use of weapons of any kind among the criminal element. This ban would restrict the free exercise of law abiding citizens’ rights simply because of the fear and ignorance of a vocal minority.Gun bans only hinder law-abiding citizens, not criminals.You have an opportunity to stand up for the rights of your constituents, the people who voted for you. I urge you, please do not let fear and ignorance sway your decision. There are far more supporters of gun rights (the right to own your choice of guns) than those opposed. We, as responsible gun owners, do not appreciate being told that our exercise of our rights is immoral or terroristic simply because of the appearance of our chosen weapons.I, and millions of others, are watching your action on this matter. My vote for you hinges on your support for the Second Amendment.Sincerely,(will add personal info to the letter)Proud AmericanProud Gun OwnerMember of OA2.orgMember of AR15.comSoon to be member of (because of this newly proposed ban):NRADucks UnlimitedLocal Gun Clubs

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from Nyles wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Greetings to you all from across the Atlantic:When you guys are talking about guns & ammo spare a thought for us in Europe who cannot legally obtain any of them here.I must admit to feeling more than a little envious when I hear one of you talking about that Remington or AR15.I know America has it's far share of troubles but at least you are allowed to defend yourselves when someone breaks into your home.Over here if we don't let them take everything and kill us, we go to prison.All the best,Nyles

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from Greg Abramson wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

If you aren't going to say any more on the subject, perhaps you should find another line of work. Or at least another subject. Clearly, you don't have a clue about this one.

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from Just a Hunter wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Any firearms owner that is not 100% sure the anti-gun forces want to ban all firearms is sadly mistaken. They want them all. I am hopeful that this will translate into mobilizing against HR 1022, if it gets out of committee. It is much more far reaching than the original ban and has implications that could spell the end of private gun ownership in the future.

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

This need sto follow Mr. Petzal whereever he goes on the internet and in the mass media.No Traitors in our midst!SeanNever Forget! 1994!

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from Fuzzbean wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Man, just shut up! Zumbo is getting what he MUST get. I don't hate the guy, but he put himself in a position where he MUST be made an example of. Others like him MUST wake up.And how popular military-style guns were in 1994 is a non-issue. The Second Amendment isn't a popularity contest -- the whole Bill of Rights was made to protect us from the majority gone wrong.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

This is why the second amendment was added to the Bill of Rights, lest any of us forget. I wonder how many Americans have actually ever read it? A big thank you to SC Texas - I followed some of your pages links to get to it.http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/doi/text.htmlHere is the complete text of the Declaration of Independence. The original spelling and capitalization has been retained.(Adopted by Congress on July 4, 1776)The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of AmericaWhen, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining in the meantime exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance.He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our legislature.He has affected to render the military independent of and superior to civil power.He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:For protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states:For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world:For imposing taxes on us without our consent:For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury:For transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretended offenses:For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule in these colonies:For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments:For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.He has constrained our fellow citizens taken captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare, is undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms: our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.Nor have we been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.New Hampshire: Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew ThorntonMassachusetts: John Hancock, Samual Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge GerryRhode Island: Stephen Hopkins, William ElleryConnecticut: Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver WolcottNew York: William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis MorrisNew Jersey: Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham ClarkPennsylvania: Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George RossDelaware: Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKeanMaryland: Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of CarrolltonVirginia: George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter BraxtonNorth Carolina: William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John PennSouth Carolina: Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur MiddletonGeorgia: Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Source: The Pennsylvania Packet, July 8, 1776

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ron, great post, I agree 100%!

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from Rod McDonald wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Repeat after me:"I am a gun owner and I will protect the rights of gun owners."Many, many gun owners, as well as many non-gun owners, simply are not well imformed on the political issues surrounding gun legislation. Many have opinions formed on only what the main stream media has provided them.I would like to see publications such as Field and Stream and Outdoor Life publish some well researched and informative articles on past legislative attempts and current threats facing gun owners. In depth looks at the agendas of prominent gun-hating legislators should be covered too. I would also like to see these issues addressed in depth at least a couple times per year.This type of education will lead to solidarity, and stop the misunderstandings that lead to infighting. Bickering in a web blog probably will not.Rod McDonaldWashington

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from MOSendero wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow, You just saw what happened to your pard, Zumbo, and now you are spewing this. "Mental Ward patients", I'm sure you didn't mean it though?I feel you missed the rath of the internet response cause you were hiding, hoping nobody remembered the stuff you wrote years ago.Field and Stream should run you off, just like OL did Zumbo.MO

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ok, I have read all the posts here. Leave a comment for Mr. Petzal, that's what this is for, not to rant and rave in irrelevant stuff.Posted by: Lowell | February 25, 2007 at 01:29 PM================================Mr. Petzal,If you have not seen the light as Mr. Zumbo has and publicly apologize for the damage your your appeasement comments have done in the past then please resign. I do not wish to have a back stabber associated in any way with my rights.

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from Lowell wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ok, I have read all the posts here. Leave a comment for Mr. Petzal, that's what this is for, not to rant and rave in irrelevant stuff.

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

But for the fact that I can't type for crap this morning, or spell this morning!SeanNever Forget! 1994

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

David,I am now subscribed to your blogs.I will be bringing these comments to everything that you right to remind you that you are a traitor to this community.SeanRemember 1994

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I agree with Sarah.Posted by: Soccer Mom Sally | February 25, 2007 at 12:56 PM=================================Then you too do not deserve to be protected by the very implements you choose to try and outlaw.

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

We should take this fight to every blog that David Petzal publishes.

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Who are Petzal's sponsors?Lets get a list up.Also, for those who feel tha tI am a mental patient, let me explain: I will no longer sit quietly as someone who claims t be a friend to ginowners stabs me and my fellow firearms owners in the back.That ended in 1986 & was reinforced in 1994!Sean

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Field & Stream doesn't want to hear from us. But, they have been nice enough to publish their customer service telephone number of 1-800-289-0639.I called this number and asked for Amanda McNally in the Media Relations Department to discuss David Petzal's references to us as "mental patients". The customer service agent refused to provide the information, and instead told me to go look at the F&S web site so I could send an e-mail to the web master. I let her know that people have already been e-mailing Amanda and that she is not responding. I then let her know that I would publish F&S' telephone number and that Amanda can't hide forever behind customer service agents.Folks, Field & Stream is owned by Time Inc, yes "Time Magazine" in New York City as you can see here: http://whois.domaintools.com/fieldandstream.comPlease give them a call and then press "0" three or four times to get through to their customer service. Let the customer service agent know that you want to talk to Amanda McNally terminating David Petzal. If you want to send her another e-mail, here's the address: amanda.mcnally@time4.com

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

You didnt endorse the ban, you called for the ban of our weapons. You are no better than Zumbo and I would say worse.YOU are a TRAITOR not a GUN NUT!"Gun owners -- all gun owners -- pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons ... and the American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma."-- Column by David Petzal, "Endangered Tradition" column in Field and Stream, June 1994.

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from Soccer Mom Sally wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I agree with Sarah.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Sarah,If the maniac that shot your husband when trying to shoot the President had instead used a knife to try to stab him, but had stabbed your husband instead, would you have devoted your life to trying to ban sharp objects? What if he had used a bat? Would you have devoted your life to banning sticks? What if he had used a brick? Would you have devoted your life to banning rocks?Amazing how blind you are to the fact that people will kill people with whatever is avaiilable, and there is nothing you can do about it, except step on our rights in your crazed pursuit of mental healing.

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from ctx wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

not an apology? I don't want your apology, I want you and other "sportsmen" to understand that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting. When they take your Rem700 high powered sniper rifle, maybe you will understand.

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Sarah,Thanks you for attempting to step on the rights guaranteed us all by the constitution of these United States. What don't you get? People kill people....guns just sit there peacefully by themselves.Read and understand the following from U.S. vs Timothy Joe Emerson:"Prudential ConcernsSome scholars have argued that even if the original intent of the Second Amendment was to provide an individual right to bear arms, modern-day prudential concerns about social costs outweigh such original intent and should govern current review of the amendment. However, there is a problem with such reasoning. If one accepts the plausibility of any of the arguments on behalf of a strong reading of the Second Amendment, but, nevertheless, rejects them in the name of social prudence and the present-day consequences of an individual right to bear arms, why do we not apply such consequentialist criteria to each and every part of the Bill of Rights?As Professor Ronald Dworkin has argued, what it means to take rights seriously is that one will honor them even when there is significant social cost in doing so. Protecting freedom of speech, the rights of criminal defendants, or any other part of the Bill of Rights has significant costs--criminals going free, oppressed groups having to hear viciously racist speech and so on--consequences which we take for granted in defending the Bill of Rights. This mind-set changes, however, when the Second Amendment is concerned. "Cost-benefit" analysis, rightly or wrongly, has become viewed as a "conservative" weapon to attack liberal rights. Yet the tables are strikingly turned when the Second Amendment comes into play. Here "conservatives" argue in effect that social costs are irrelevant and "liberals" argue for a notion of the "living Constitution" and "changed circumstances" that would have the practical consequence of erasing the Second Amendment from the Constitution.Other commentators, including Justice Scalia, have argued that even if there would be "few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights."Thus, concerns about the social costs of enforcing the Second Amendment must be outweighed by considering the lengths to which the federal courts have gone to uphold other rights in the Constitution. The rights of the Second Amendment should be as zealously guarded as the other individual liberties enshrined in the Bill of Rights."If you don't get it then even your right to express your stupid opinion may someday be taken away!

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from M1Thumb wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Walt:Why is it so hard for people like you to dilineate between FREE EXERCISE OF RIGHTS and TOTAL LACK OF CONSEQUENCES?NO ONE'S FREEDOM HAS BEEN ABRIDGED HERE. No one is stating that the government should pass a law outlawing Zumbo or Petzal's opinions.We're voting with our dollars. Consumer-driven boycotts don't infringe anyone's right to free expression.You can scream all you want, and if the people decide to stop listening, you may have lost your influence, but no one has trampled your rights.You and Petzal really are two of a kind. You don't even understand what rights even ARE. How in the world can we hope that you would be any use in DEFENDING them?

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from RK wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tim,Why the bad press? Why the "negative image"? Oh, right, because of groups like the Brady Campaign comparing them to machine guns and individuals like Zumbo and Petzal going on about "terrorist weapons" and being willing to "compromise".If they don't want it made "public" then they shouldn't be posting on an open forum.

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from walt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Lordy,Lordy,Lordy, what a crock of ****, I'vealways heard that you could say anything in this country(Remember 1st Admendmant) but now it seems that you can only say what you want to only if it's okay with your bosses and the general public. Thats a shame because i've alway's enjoyed Mr.Zumbo's opinions right along with Mr. petzal's,wether I agreed with them or not. As for Mr. Zumbo I'm sure he won't be out of work long as another magazine will look at this, laugh and hire him and his years of experiance on the spot.If field and stream's ownership are smart they will realize this and put him on their payroll. I think it would be the end of a lot of subscriptions for Outddor life. Having Petzal and Zumbo in the same magazine would be outstanding!! Of course this is only my founding fathers given,right of my own opinion.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Todd, as my high school history teacher taught me: The 1st Amendment is to protect people from punishment by the govt. from voicing their opinions. It does not protect people from physical censorship by private citizens (that's actually kidnapping), nor does it protect people against unpopularity from voicing those opinions.And as far as you saying your 22-250 is a more responsible choice, and that a black gun is not enough gun for deer, then you obviously don't know that black guns also come in calibers like .308. Obviously, if you knew that then you would admit that it's more than enough gun. So it's evident that you don't know much of what you are talking about. Do some research, get informed first, then speak with some wisdom instead of blindly stating what you think.

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from Dave from Iowa wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Most important, you shouldn’t construe any of this as an apology. It isn’t. But it is the last thing I’m going to say in this space about the Zumbo matter. I don't think anyone construes this as anything more than a pathetic attempt to play revisionist with what you did in '94. Your lack of integrity is such that you should consider running for Congress, or even as Hillary's running mate. She needs a good sackless eunuch for a gun control spokestraitor.Instead of trying to learn even the slightest from the overwhelming torrent of letters, you have elected to play arrogant journalist tough-guy. FWIW, the only reason anyone is paying attention to your pissant blog is because your words, like Zumbo's will be used by the anti-gun community to further their cause. But you are too full of yourself to recognize that.I'll not support Field & Stream or anyone else who affords you a platform to spout your ill-advised and incompetent blather.

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from Sarah Brady wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Mr.Petzal,On behalf of Jim and myself, I want to thank you for being a loyal ally in our fight to remove these terrible intruments of murder from society.Your continued efforts have not gone unnoticed. The children of American thank you. After all, it's all for the children.Yours in a common cause,Sarah

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from Rk wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well, Todd, It's good you didn't see any "assault rifles" in the field because those are select fire military weapons. Did you also note the part in JZ's blog where he wants them banned from hunting, complete disassociation, and called them "terrorist weapons"? Had he said he "personally felt XXXX rifle was more responsible" and left it at that, none of this would have happened.His 1st amendment rights have not been violated. He's free to speak his mind elsewhere (see tednugent.com). The businesses he was associated w/ choose to no longer finance him. Big difference.

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from TIM wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

As I read through this blog I keep seeing the statement that the second amendment isn't about hunting, which is absolutely correct. Now, what Zumbo said was, at best, poorly worded and ill timed, and also quite inflammatory to a segment of the shooting community, where did he call for the repeal of anyones second amendment rights? He didn't, he wanted game departments to exclude them from hunting, because he was concerned about the image they conveyed to the non-shooting public. And guess what, when it comes to banning certain weapons for hunting, you have no constitutional protection. In my home state of Pennsylvania, black rifles are already illegal for hunting, and the regulations restricting them were in place before there were any black rifles.You're worried about Zumbos comments being used by the anti's, look at whats being posted on these blogs. Do you think looking like a rabid, hair-trigger Rambo is going to further your cause? Like it or not, you're a minority within a minority.What happened to Zumbo should have been done quietly with emails, not publicly on blogs. As hard as it may be for you to swallow, Petzal was right when he said black rifles are a burden on the rest of the shooting community, simply because of the mistaken image they project, but since my rights are unbreakably attached to the rights of the Rambos, its my responsibility to protect them.Its also time for the Rambos to grow up and accept the responsibility of projecting a positive image. You need to make yourselves easier to defend, be self policing. If someone with the experience of Jim Zumbo wasn't aware of the sporting uses of black rifles, what do you think the non-shooting public is aware of? With pending anti-gun legislation coming up, the Rambos need to make themselves look like the good, upstanding citizens the vast majority of them are. You do that by talking and reasoning with people in a civilized manner, not by beating them senseless with your black rifles. I really hope you guys didn't shoot yourselves in the foot on this one, because I think you gave the Brady bunch more ammo than Jim did.For general information - I am not a "fudd",or an elitist, nor do I own or have any interest in black rifles. I do have a rather strong attachment to my pair of ancient self loading rifles, which are no different, functionally than your black rifles, so I'm not blind to your arguements. I am a registered independent, with libertarian leanings, and I support EVERYONES second amendment rights. As a minority member (gunowner) in this country, I feel its my obligation to stand up for my rights when they're threatened, put forth a positive image to non-shooters when in their view, and keep our quarrels to ourselves and stay under the radar the rest of the time. I hope we all don't regret this.

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from Todd wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I hear so much screaming about 2nd Amendment rights, but what about the 1st Amendment. Last I knew, there's a thing called the freedom of speech and everyone has a right to their opinions. I've been hunting for 25 years, and I can count on one hand all the times I've seen an assault rifle in the field. I agree they really have no place out there. I personally own a mini-14, which I enjoy plinking with and use on coyotes occasionally, but honestly my 22-250 is a much more responsible choice. On top of that, I wouldn't even think about using either gun on a deer (too small). I think the actions against Mr. Zumbo are a travisty, and I hope that somehow this can be turned around for him. I have always been a supporter of gun rights, but if this is how we're going to react against a fellow outdoorsman (for voicing his opinion) then all I can say is that I'm ashamed.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow, this puppy won't quit. Dave, you might really want to rethink your comments, and do something, God only knows what.Anyways, with this kind of mobilization of BGO's, maybe we can one day turn the communist NYC around and allow black guns here. I'd love to have one!

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I don't quite understand your logic here Mr. Petzal. You say that because black rifles are now popular in the shooting sports they should no longer be banned. In your eyes a firearm must pass the "popularity test" in order to be owned by citizens. That’s strange, because my copy of the constitution says the people have the right to bear ARMS, there is no distinction between popular or unpopular firearms. As much as you may dislike it Mr. Petzal your "popularity test" doesn't exist. Neither you nor anyone else has the right to determine which firearms can be owned by the good citizens of this great republic. Perhaps I could lend you my copy of the Constitution sir, as it is obvious that yours has been corrupted and edited to fit your own bias against the millions of responsible gun owners that choose to own black rifles.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

He didn't call the EBR community mental patients, just you and 249 others. I'd say he wasn't far off the mark, either.Mattwv, Yes he most certianly did in the process of defending the "gentleman" that called EBR owners "terrorists" which is exactly how Peztar feels. The big difference between then (94) and now is this time is he didn't even have the balls to speak his mind like Zumbo did. And now you,re upset that people are taking the guy to task? Sorry if I'm not going to shed a tear for a liar, a traitor and an arrogant snob who makes his living off of proceeds from the products I buy! It's just Karma, the guy sold us out in '94 and now it's coming home to roost. One word of advice if you're a FS reader. When they trot out this guys' replacement Insist on a little integrity from the staff of the rag you give your money too.As for you calling me a mental patient that's fine. I spent 20 years in the Corps and some the best dudes I've ever met are f###ing pink mist in the wind all done on your behalf pal. Just so you can run your mouth and say what ever you like. Just remember Freedom of Speech does not = Freedom from the consequences of running your pie hole.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

He didn't call the EBR community mental patients, just you and 249 others. I'd say he wasn't far off the mark, either.Mattwv, Yes he most certianly did in the process of defending the "gentleman" that called EBR owners "terrorists" which is exactly how Peztar feels. The big difference between then (94) and now is this time is he didn't even have the balls to speak his mind like Zumbo did. And now you,re upset that people are taking the guy to task? Sorry if I'm not going to shed a tear for a liar, a traitor and an arrogant snob who makes his living off of proceeds from the products I buy! It's just Karma, the guy sold us out in '94 and now it's coming home to roost. One word of advice if you're a FS reader. When they trot out this guys' replacement Insist on a little integrity from the staff of the rag you give your money too.As for you calling me a mental patient that's fine. I spent 20 years in the Corps and some the best dudes I've ever met are f###ing pink mist in the wind all done on your behalf pal. Just so you can run your mouth and say what ever you like. Just remember Freedom of Speech does not = Freedom from the consequences of running your pie hole.

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from Son of Skipper wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I must live in a vacuum. My Black Lab told me that Dave Petzal was guilty of sedition during the Klintoon Glory Hours.Staff, I'm sorry about that inappropriate post. I was very tired when I made it. I had been out working on the Broke back mountain all day and it was windy.

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from VaHam wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Constitution DOES protect the right to hunt. See the Ninth Amendment, not the Second.Yours,Wince==================================Ok==================================Amendment IXThe enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.==================================I don't see hunting mentioned in the IX ammendment. Perhaps you should review the the basis for the supreme court decision in U.S. vs Miller 1939 regarding shotgun usage."In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense. "The basis was not whether the shotgun was useful for hunting; it was whether it was useful for defense. Had the respondant's actually showed up and shown that "trench guns" were in fact useful military weapons we would have different laws today regarding shotguns.While you at it take a look at the following from U.S. vs Timothy Joe Emerson:Prudential ConcernsSome scholars have argued that even if the original intent of the Second Amendment was to provide an individual right to bear arms, modern-day prudential concerns about social costs outweigh such original intent and should govern current review of the amendment. However, there is a problem with such reasoning. If one accepts the plausibility of any of the arguments on behalf of a strong reading of the Second Amendment, but, nevertheless, rejects them in the name of social prudence and the present-day consequences of an individual right to bear arms, why do we not apply such consequentialist criteria to each and every part of the Bill of Rights?As Professor Ronald Dworkin has argued, what it means to take rights seriously is that one will honor them even when there is significant social cost in doing so. Protecting freedom of speech, the rights of criminal defendants, or any other part of the Bill of Rights has significant costs--criminals going free, oppressed groups having to hear viciously racist speech and so on--consequences which we take for granted in defending the Bill of Rights. This mind-set changes, however, when the Second Amendment is concerned. "Cost-benefit" analysis, rightly or wrongly, has become viewed as a "conservative" weapon to attack liberal rights. Yet the tables are strikingly turned when the Second Amendment comes into play. Here "conservatives" argue in effect that social costs are irrelevant and "liberals" argue for a notion of the "living Constitution" and "changed circumstances" that would have the practical consequence of erasing the Second Amendment from the Constitution.Other commentators, including Justice Scalia, have argued that even if there would be "few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights."Thus, concerns about the social costs of enforcing the Second Amendment must be outweighed by considering the lengths to which the federal courts have gone to uphold other rights in the Constitution. The rights of the Second Amendment should be as zealously guarded as the other individual liberties enshrined in the Bill of Rights."It is about rights!

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from CavVet wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Im tired of being attacked from the looney left, and atthe same time from those who should be on my side as well.MOLON LABE.Pretzel, get a clue. They will take your scoped sniper rifle so fast it will make your head spin.

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from 556Nato wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal isn't responding because his editor has told him to STFU.He's in deep deer urine right now, trust me.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Petzal ! Are you still out there ? I realize you will not read past the first hundred or so replies that don't support you,or call you to task over your statements. Did we just whitness another RGE ( Resume Generating Event ) take place? Inquiring minds want to know ? Several other sites are having a lot of hits on this subject also. No Dave, they are being very cordial. They are all looking foreward to meeting both you & Jim at the NRA meeting in St Louis ,but most of all at ShotShow in Vegas (Feb '08)At all your favorite Vendors Booths. You will be there, won't you Dave ? Please let us, your "New Found Fans" know Dave. Thanks in advance for responding to this question Dave. Wm Stojack

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from Kris Wittlieff wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

There sure are a lot of stupid people on this blog. A lot of you do not have very broad minds. Time changes and previous comments usually do not have the same meaning as it once may have!

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from Frank wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"When I wrote it, black guns were not nearly as important a part of shooting as they are now. We can’t afford to sacrifice them, just as we can’t afford to sacrifice .50-caliber rifles"We shouldn't have to sacrifice a damned thing. You can take your so called "support" in the past and shove it. Writing about people being lunatics doesn't help. Neither do your articles in reference to the 2nd, most of which have some form of an appeasement tone. Grow a pair coward!

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from Mr.Smith wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

When smith&wesson betrayed gun owners to appease the klintons we gun owners united and boycotted smith&wesson and almost put them under.Zumbo opening his mouth and spoke his heart and revealed how he felt about us who arent really hunters but are firearm enthusists. So we responded to Mr.Zumbo and Mr.Zumbo's apology really wasnt an apology.We gun owners need to police ourselves in defending out 2nd amandment rights by boycotting any gun rag or hunting rag or manufactuer. Who becomes a turn coat or offers a platform to the Quizlings and Chamberland's among us.As of now i will not buy any more outdoor life or field&stream magazines or buy anything from any company that advertises in these publications.When are you sportsman going to learn the 2nd amendment isnt about duck hunting?

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from Rob wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal,Let's review.1) You defended a man, Zumbo, who called assault rifle owners -- 'terrorists'.2) Then in this very column you said you agreed with Zumbo.3) You compounded the insult by referring to those upset by Zumbo's comments as 'yahoos' and 'mental patients'.4) You have a long history of supporting legislation restricting firearm ownership.Petzal in 1994 --" The American public -- and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public -- would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma". An Uzi or an AKM or an AK-47 should be no more generally available than a Claymore mine or a block of C4 explosive."5) What makes it worse is that you admit owning one and still wanted to throw gun owners under the bus by supporting Clinton's Assault Weapon Ban.An honorable man would admit he made a mistake and move on.You chose to end discussion and run away from the controversy you created like a little girl.Field & Stream should be proud.

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from Code 326 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Last week, I lamented how we sportsmen are slowly becoming our own worst enemy, and cited examples of how fishermen are turning against each other.This week, it's the hunters' turn under the microscope.Hunters are getting to the point of cannibalism.The number of groups out there turning against each other is ridiculous. Many are trying to take away the tactics that have worked for generations.Deer baiting is one of the most heated debates in recent years since the onset of Chronic Wasting Disease. The theory (and it is still just a theory) is the disease is passed from deer-to-deer through saliva or nose-to-nose contact, and that when deer are gathered at a bait pile, the likelihood of transmission increases.The reality is nobody is 100 percent sure just how deer get CWD. The Wisconsin Deer Hunters Association (WDH) and Wisconsin Bowhunters, (WBH) are two of the biggest statewide organizations that want to ban deer baiting and the feeding of deer. The organizations, like many hunters, fear the disease will spiral out of control.These same groups are also in favor of being able to plant food plots to attract deer. Their logic is since food plots are spread out over a larger area instead of a two-gallon pile of corn, there is less chance of nose-to-nose contact between deer.Tell that to deer eating under an apple tree or where acorns are falling.Did you know there are fellow hunters out there who want to ban the use of scents to lure deer?Believe it or not, some are beginning to think using scents, like doe in heat, will attract too many deer to one spot and raise the risk of contact, thus increasing the risk of spreading diseases.It sounds crazy, but it's in the works.If that still doesn't bother you, think about what happens if legislation like that passes. What is going to stop these groups from pushing for even more rules? Rules that would dictate how you can do things on land that you may own.Maybe some of this isn't that important to you, but if we keep allowing bans on more things, how will that make new hunters want to get into the game? After all, do we want to make things so tough that it turns future hunters off, thus jeopardizing its future?I say putting more bans on things is going to hurt, not help.Shawn Clark is a local hunting and fishing enthusiast.

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from Geebus wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Many radical Leftists seem to suffer from a basic twist in character. They constantly confuse aggressive and defensive actions by their own , on whose freedom and protection they depend every hour of the day. They constantly indulge sworn enemies of our freedom and well-being. They constantly push for government actions that seem plausible on the surface, but which inevitably hurt the very people they are supposed to help. It happens over and over again.When I was young I thought the Left was just confused, but now I'm increasingly drawn to the idea that there is a deep, if unconscious, malevolence at the bottom of the history of disasters inflicted by those people. They are dangerous.

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Et tu, Petzal?

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey mr. ignorant. What was the Mauser k98 designed for? What was the Springfield 03a3 designed for? What was the Enfield designed for? They all have bayonet lugs, one has a detachable magazine? Those enough clues? They were designed for killing people. They are not black guns, they are bolt action rifles. And no they should not be banned either as semi-autos should not be banned. Get a life, get educated.

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from Marc wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Good job in not addressing the core issue.I too hope this is the last thing (about Zumbo or anything else) we see you post.

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from Wince and Nod wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Constitution DOES protect the right to hunt. See the Ninth Amendment, not the Second.Yours,Wince

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from MattWV wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

He didn't call the EBR community mental patients, just you and 249 others. I'd say he wasn't far off the mark, either.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

PS. it's 3 o'clock in the morning and I'm staying up long enough to contact the last two of your advertisers that are on my list so far. Reckon I'm just a tad riled up about all this? Just one of many.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

One thing I just can't figure. There was the huge negative feedback recieved in 94 Pre internet. So there's no doubt in his mind the average black rifle owner thinks he's a sell out at best. Then the example of Zumbo figuartively diving face first into a carreer chipper shredder (dude went from the epicenter of the fudd universe to flat on his ass in <48 hours). Why in the world would Petzar run his mouth about it TWICE in a roughly 24 hour span, label the EBR comunity as mental patients and Yahoos and conclude his remarks with "this isn't an apology". Wow! The only thing I can come up with is he really believes that black rifles are an inconsiquential part of shooting sports and his exualted position would insulate him from any negative opinion from us terrorist, mental yahoos. Just got done mailing Swarovski, Chevy's next, then Castrol GTX at that point I've run out of website advertisers. Guess I'm going to have actually go out and buy my first issue of FS since '94 to get a list of all the print advertisers.FS leadership please save a whole lot of people a whole lot of typing and do the right thing.

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from scott wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well. It seems to have come down to remembering good ol' Mr. Murphy and his law when it comes to things like this. If it CAN happen, it usually will. Remember guys, if the enemy is in range it generally means we are also in range.

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from Second amendment wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I hope something good comes of all this, its time for the fudds to pull their heads out of their ass and realize what the 2nd amendment is all about. It sure as hell aint about your precious hunting rifle! Time to stop throwing other gun owners under a bus and join the rest of us in protecting our constitutional rights from the libtards."The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."Zachariah JohnsonElliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution.""And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"Samuel Adamsquoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State""Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."George WashingtonFirst President of the United States"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."Patrick HenryAmerican Patriot"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."Richard Henry LeeAmerican Statesman, 1788

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from Big Red 1 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago
from Dennis Bender wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Since when did David and Jim try to divide us? Jim apologized and David provided an informative history. Some firearms were made out of a military background but others were made for hunting and target purposes. It is speaking from panic and a lack of direct information that will divide us.

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from Andrew wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The more people like zumbo and petzal continue to try and divide us the more our rights become vulnerable. Since their common sense has gone out the window. Let us all educate them. The semiautomatic action is 100 year old technology. Basically every firearm is based off military weapon technology. The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. Is time to wake up and quit watching cnn. Start standing on the second amendment and not just part of it. Remember this! Write it down if you have to. They wont be satisfied until they are all banned!

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from Dennis Bender wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Sure we can throw away two of the best reps supportive of the 2nd Amendment that we have had for many years. But what would that accomplish, it would make us that much an easier target. If they have made mistakes so have we all. If we stand behind them we will be stronger not weaker. Let's move on to higher ground and give them a chance.

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from Bull Simons III wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hello,I just wanted to let you know that I am a former member of the NRA and a year ago I let my membership laps because I didn't think my firearm interests were being represented. I am a class 3 collector and own several military style semi automatic rifles (the libs call them assault weapons but I don't use that term). With your recent statement concerning the Zumbo comments and your open stance against HR1022, I now feel like we are on the same page so tonight I rejoined the NRA. Please continue your support of military style weapons because our numbers are many and if more of us think that you'll stand up for us, word will spread and so will NRA memberships.Thanks

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have one thing to say to those who whine "Oh, those evil AR mental patients are so mean with their comments."Zealousness in defense of liberty is no vice.

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I think Petzal is the John Kerry of gun writers.He really can't tell where he sits on this fence.First, he was a hero becasue he owned an AR15 backin 1965.Then, he decided that it wasn't popular to be a hero so he sold his fellow gun owners out back in 1994.Then, Petzal decided that he likedbeing a hero again so now he is all for owning his AR15.What is wrong with this man and his flip flopping? Doesn't he sound just like John Kerry?Hey David . . who did you vote for? Did you vote for the gun grabbing democrats?Sincerly,Sean

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from Anti-Fudd wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal, Zumbo, and their starry-eyed followers are the typical Fudds all gun owners has met at leat once in their lifetime.They are the myopic morons that will eye your eye high-cap semi-auto at the range and say " whatcha need that fer? Dat dare gun is only fer killin' people!"These Fudds like Petzal, Zumbo, and their ilk are hunters who don't care what happens to guns they do not use for their hunting activities. They don't care if other guns are restricted, left alone or outright banned by politicians because they have no interest in them.Some of these Fudds are actually anti-gunners themselves and believe that any firearm with a modern military weapon lineage or that is not their type of hunting arm, has no place in anyones hands outside of the military or law enforcement.The Petzals and Zumbos within our gun-owning community have no problem with throwing his EBR owning brothers to the wolves to save his own sorry hide.This is why Petzal and Zumbo are so dangerous to our sport, and this is why my friends, their pulpit needs to be taken away from them.

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from MK77 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal axed????Word is about PETZAL'S BLOG- LAY OFF HIM! A NEW PLAN OF ATTACK... HIS DAYS IS NUMBERED.

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from U.S.M.C. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Anyone at all aware of the discussions among the online gun culture on the Internet had little choice in mid-February, 2007, but to be aware, however dimly, of the controversy surrounding Jim Zumbo. The amusingly named Zumbo, a "sportsman" and hunting writer of some years' experience, wrote a column in his "blog" at Outdoor Life Magazine's website in which he characterized those rifles inaccurately termed semi-automatic "assault rifles" (so named for their magazine capacities and cosmetic similarities to select-fire military rifles) as the tools of terrorists, "terrifying" weapons for which he sees no use and which he would like to shun, Amish-style, not to mention ban by force of law. In making these comments, Zumbo draws a line between wholesome hunters like himself, and owners of guns that, quite frankly, scare him. How any hunter conversant in firearms can be 'terrified' of weapons whose cartridges are far less powerful than the hunting rifles -- excuse me, "sporting firearms" Zumbo himself carries in the woods when he's shooting animals defies reason, but then, I'll let him tell you in his own words:I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.The gun culture online turned apoplectic when word spread of Zumbo's ill-considered editorial. Angry calls and e-mails began flooding in to Zumbo's various sponsors, including Remington, Gerber Legendary Blades, Cabelas, and the host of the blog itself, Outdoor Life Magazine. Most demanded that Zumbo immediately be dropped by sponsors, threatening a boycott -- which, among gun owners, is no small thing. Second Amendment zealots (of which I am proudly one) have long memories and they hold grudges. The firearms community nationwide, while large, is relatively small. A gun company, or any commercial endeavor related even indirectly to firearms, cannot survive if it gets a reputation for less than solid support of the Second Amendment. A few of the larger companies have weathered storms created by ill-considered business decisions or public comments on the Second Amendment, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule. The fact is that the threat of a boycott from supporters of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA) is no empty threat.Fearing the ramifications of this, and perhaps pressured by Outdoor Life (if not simply afraid of the impact such widespread outrage would have on his commercial sponsors), Zumbo went back to his keyboard. With a sincerity matched only by former President Bill Clinton's lower-lip-chewing, finger-wagging denials "of sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky," he typed the following "apology," in which he even invoked one of Bill Clinton's more famous excuses for ramming his own foot down his digestive tract -- that of being "tired." I'm not sure how a lack of sleep turns you into an ignorantly pontificating traitor to the United States Constitution, exactly, but the description is certainly applicable in both cases:Someone once said that to err is human. I just erred, and made without question, the biggest blunder in my 42 years of writing hunting articles......Let me explain the circumstances surrounding that blog. I was hunting coyotes, and after the hunt was over and being beat up by 60 mph winds all day, I was discussing hunting with one of the young guides. I was tired and exhausted, and I should have gone to bed early. When the guide told me that there was a "huge" following of hunters who use AR 15's and similar weapons to hunt prairies dogs, I was amazed. At that point I wrote the blog, and never thought it through.Now then, you might not believe what I have to say, but I hope you do. How is it that Zumbo, who has been hunting for more than 50 years, is totally ignorant about these types of guns. I don't know. I shot one once at a target last year, and thought it was cool, but I never considered using one for hunting. I had absolutely no idea how vast the numbers of folks are who use them.I never intended to be divisive......What really bothers me are some of the unpatriotic comments leveled at me. I fly the flag 365 days a year in my front yard. Last year, through an essay contest, I hosted a soldier wounded in Iraq to a free hunt in Botswana. This year, through another essay contest, I'm taking two more soldiers on a free moose and elk hunt....Believe it or not, I'm your best friend if you're a hunter or shooter, though it might not seem that way. I simply screwed up...So you see, Zumbo's your best friend if you support the Second Amendment. He was tired. It wasn't his fault. He took a a few of those people he called "terrorists" -- oh, excuse me, American soldiers -- on free hunts, so he must support the Second Amendment. Why, the man has a flag that he flies all year 'round; how could you dare question his patriotism?At what point do ridiculous, backpedaling excuses like these start to sound like an anti-Semite squealing that he's not anti-Semitic, because he's got Jewish friends, or a Klan member protesting that he's not racist, because he goes out drinking with his black coworkers? Now, Zumbo is not a racist (I could no more assert that than I could claim he was a Martian, a Republican, or a dentist -- I don't know anything about the man's personal life or credentials other than what he wrote in his blog). What I can say with certainty and conviction, based on the same two blog post excerpted here, is that Zumbo is a hunting snob who sneers at other gun owners whose guns don't match his definition of a "sporting firearm."Zumbo is, in short, a Fudd.A Fudd is an ignorant hunter who sees no connection between his "sporting firearms" -- his hunting tools -- and his firearms rights. He is not a Second Amendment supporter; he may even be a Democrat. He loves to hunt, for whatever reason, but he has no respect and no use for "non-traditional" shooters. He can't imagine a rifle stock made of plastic being good for anything; he can't see a need or a "legitimate sporting purpose" for any weapon cosmetically similar to a military arm. He is, in short, an elitist who doesn't wish to associate with those gun owners he considers beneath him.As the outrage over Zumbo's column spread, consequences started to be felt. The overwhelming grassroots pressure prompted posters in at least one Internet forum to declare "Zumbo" a verb, a good working definition of which might be "to inundate with grassroots support or opposition, as in the advocacy of a political issue." For my own part, I e-mailed all the sponsors I could think of, including Zumbo himself. I e-mailed Outdoor Life demanding he be let go. I even sent a snailmail letter with my business card to Jim Zumbo's Post Office box, because if I'm going to demand a man be fired, I'm damned well not going to do it anonymously.The firestorm took its toll. Sponsor Remington severed all ties with the man in no uncertain terms. Cabelas, another sponsor, issued a statement saying that it was analyzing its contractual obligations -- the implication being, I think, that it was trying to determine if it could legally drop support for Zumbo. Yet another sponsor, Hi Mountain Jerky, sent e-mail saying explicitly that it did not support Mr. Zumbo's statements and that it "would not have supported [his hunting show on the Outdoor Channel] or had his endorsement on our packaging in the past had we known [his opinion]."Outdoor Life Magazine finally deleted the Zumbo columns completely, dropping them down the Memory Hole while bleating in protest that it really wasn't anti-gun, not really. "Due to the controversy surrounding Jim Zumbo’s recent postings," the official announcement read, "Outdoor Life has decided to discontinue the 'Hunting With Zumbo' blog for the time being. Outdoor Life has always been, and will always be, a steadfast supporter of our Second Amendment rights, which do not make distinctions based on the looks of the firearms we choose to own, shoot and take hunting."Outdoor Life's protestations notwithstanding, various friends of Zumbo were quick to leap to his defense, activating the Good Ol' Boy network of Fudds and other less than solidly Second Amendment-supporting hunters (and those others who are nominally shooters, but hardly defenders of the Second Amendment) who were only too willing to act as apologists for one of their own. It didn't matter that Zumbo's strident and self-righteous editorial was made from ignorance by his own admission in his "apology." No, all that mattered was another flannel-clad man with a wood-stocked rifle was being taken to task for his ignorance by owners of, and sympathizers to, the "terrorist rifles" Zumbo had so bravely decried. It was therefore necessary to start bitching and whining about how terribly unfair it was that Zumbo be held accountable for his statements.Jim Shepherd of the Outdoor Wire commented on the controversy, saying in part that the Zumboing of Zumbo was the "shouting down" of "voices calling for reason and tolerance." This characterization does not emphasize harshly enough the fact that it is Zumbo who is responsible for creating, through his inflammatory and ignorant rhetoric, what Shepherd characterized as a "schism" -- the "ill-considered" creation of "good-gun, bad-gun categories" even now being used in Congress as "further evidence of the 'need' to regulate firearms -- all firearms -- more stringently."I wonder if readers will get the impression from Shepherd's column (The Blog Heard 'Round The Industry: Jim Zumbo angers firearm enthusiasts, posted 20 February, 2007) that the "schism" is created by the implied 'intolerance' of those "firearms enthusiasts" angrily calling for Zumbo's metaphorical head on a virtual platter. If only those of us eager to protect the Second Amendment would be more 'reasonable,' one might conclude, there would be no "schism" and the gun-grabbers wouldn't be using our own divisive politics against us. The problem with this tempting conclusion is that it relieves of responsibility for his actions the man who created the problem, who indeed sought to create "good-gun, bad-gun" categories -- Zumbo himself, whose mind-numbing ignorance in writing the editorial in the first place is matched only by the insincerity of his subsequent apology for it."Gun Talk" host Tom Gresham, in a column titled "Tipping Point -- Suicide on the Web," concluded that Jim Zumbo "basically committed career suicide." He went on to explain that Zumbo "made a mistake from which there was no recovery. He wrote his blog while on a hunting trip. Just before going on the air, I checked the internet forums (fora?) and found a firestorm. People were livid, and with good reason. Some of the comments were clearly over the top, but most of them conveyed the rage that comes from a feeling of being betrayed by someone you thought of as one of your own."Gresham, it seems, now regrets initial comments he made in an interview with Zumbo about the online controversy, comments in which he decried firearms owners' "willingness to eat our own." He was wrong to say that, Gresham now says, because such cannibal mistreatment of Zumbo was "not what was going on here, as I discovered when I got off the air...The outrage by gun owners is completely understandable. To put it in context, Zumbo's comments came only days after we saw the introduction of a bill in Congress to bring back the Clinton Gun Ban (the so-called 'assault weapons' ban). The final nail in the coffin was when-- Sunday afternoon -- the Brady Campaign (the leading group working to restrict gun rights) posted Zumbo's comments to several places on the net, saying, in effect, 'See, even the top hunting writer says these rifles have no legitimate use.' At that point, it was all over for Jim Zumbo."Gresham correctly points out that the real problem here is not Zumbo's statements in and of themselves, ignorant as they were. No, the problem is that Zumbo's comments were almost immediately picked up by various anti-gun groups as evidence of support for their noble cause within the firearms community. Such gun-banning groups are always trolling for pet "experts," those Second Amendment quislings supposedly knowledgable of firearms whom they can trot out for media soundbites condemning certain kinds of "bad" firearms. This is a common tactic in the incremental push among such groups for total gun bans. First they go after "junk guns" and "Saturday Night Specials." Then they attack "assault weapons." Then they decry the proliferation of "sniper rifles." It doesn't matter that in all cases, these vilifying terms are lies and distortions meant to justify banning perfectly legitimate firearms. All that matters is that the gun banners can claim a victory and further their agendas. If they can do so while pimping a "firearms expert" who's happy to oblige them with fuel for their propaganda machine, they'll do so. It confers on them the veneer of legitimacy while disguising their true intentions, cloaking as "reasonable gun control measures" their long-term goal of banning all firearms.The problem is, you see, that gun owners are a persecuted minority. The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, which protects the inalienable and natural right of American citizens to keep and bear arms, has been under attack for years, incrementally chipped away, suppressed, infringed, and circumvented by activist judges and left-wing pressure groups almost since its inception. Some of the earliest infringements on the RKBA had to do with restrictions on bowie knives, Arkansas toothpicks, and other tools of dueling, a tradition seen as barbaric by more "civilized" governing Americans. Some time later, "Jim Crow" laws included restrictions on firearms ownership, such as requiring permits issued by local law enforcement, in an attempt to disarm black Americans. The 1930s and the 1960s saw restrictions on firearms that were politically motivated by attempts (ill-conceived and ineffective attempts, I might add) to prevent gun violence, born of national horror at crime and political assassinations.This issue is so serious because it quite literally concerns life and death -- specifically, the lives and deaths of American citizens trying to protect their families and themselves from crime. Any attack on your firearms rights reduces or eliminates by force of law your right, your opportunity, and your ability to own and employ a firearm, the most useful tool for personal defense yet invented. Any statements that facilitate these attacks -- any lies, arguments, or quotes used by the firearms prohibitionists to attack your gun rights -- are therefore no less than an indirect attempt to decrease the value of your life. A man who presumes to tell you that you cannot own a firearm is not just pissing on the United States Constitution and the Second Amendment; he is presuming to tell you how much your life is worth. He is saying he sees no reason to make it easier for you to defend that life, or the lives of your family. He is declaring his supremacy over you by presuming to judge your life and its value. If there is a more tyrannical worldview, I don't know what it might be.Whenever your firearms rights are attacked, therefore, you have no choice but to see that attack, ideologically, as an attempt to devalue your life. You are fully within your rights to speak out, loudly and persistently, in opposition to such presumption. You are also correct to be outraged that anyone would presume to tell you what your life is worth. There are varying degrees of outrage, however.When irrational, fearful, ignorant people like the gun-banners at the Brady Campaign or the Violence Policy Institute or (whatever it's called) spit on your life and the lives of your family, empowering violent criminals by attempting to disarm you, it's not much of a surprise. Some people simply have this worldview and, motivated by a fear of guns and an ignorance of firearms technology, they lash out in all their impotent fury, a screaming mob made powerful by pandering lawmakers with no respect for the United States Constitution. Gun owners have pretty much come to expect this behavior. Those gun owners alive and active today have been coping with truly serious and deleterious infringements on their gun rights since the 1960s.When an irrational furtherance of firearms prohibition is made from within the ranks of your fellow shooters, however, it is only just and it is perfectly understandable that one's outrage would be that much greater. That is what occurred. Jim Zumbo attacked the firearms rights of the very people with whom he hunts and socializes, the Fudds within their numbers notwithstanding. He betrayed the people he should have been working to support, the people whose rights are protected by the very Constitution one would hope Zumbo is lauding when he flies his precious flag 365 days a year. I would think such a patriotic American would understand why you can't then call for the banning of certain kinds of firearms without infuriating thousands of Second Amendment supporters and armed citizens, who see such statements as a betrayal of their rights and an attack on the values of their lives. But, no, Zumbo and his Fudd supporters don't grasp this. Instead they mewl and shriek that the First Amendment protects their right to further the destruction of the Second without consequence.The First Amendment guarantees you the right to speak your mind without fear of legal repercussion. It is not, however, a shield behind which to hide in an attempt to avoid the unpopularity incurred when one voices unpopular opinions. It is not an all-purpose aegis from whose shelter you may demand license to offend anyone, anywhere, for any reason, unless you are willing to live with the consequences of having given offense. This is why having the courage of one's convictions requires courage. Stand up and say what is unpopular, by all means -- but don't then complain that you have become unpopular. In a free market, you are free to piss on your customers -- but don't complain when they take their business elsewhere.Zumbo and the Fudds don't, won't, or can't understand that the Second Amendment is not about hunting, no matter how many times this is repeated vehemently by RKBA supporters. When Zumbo's hunting rifles are banned as "sniper rifles" (a tactic even now being employed by the gun banners to mischracterize any rifle with some glass mounted to it), perhaps he'll come to regret his comments -- but then again, he's already admitted to advocating the banning of firearms about which he is, in his own words and by his own admission, "totally ignorant." Ignorance is a tool of the firearms prohibitionists, the gun banners, the gun-grabbers, the antis. By any name, they are fighting to destroy the United States Constitution and the rights of all American citizens as protected by the Second Amendment. When the Fudds employ these tactics, they are every bit as guilty as the Brady Campaign and their ilk.You Fudds have a choice. You can understand that by furthering the cause of the gun-grabbers, you are cutting your own throats. You can make the connection between your precious hunting trips and the firearms you take on them. Or you can continue to shoot your deer and your bears and whatever else, all the while working to make certain that, eventually, you'll no more be able to gun down an elk than you'll be able to shoot the rapist who is coming for your wife.It's your choice. Make it now

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from Redwagyu wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

One More Time....the second amendment is NOT ABOUT HUNTING or BLACK RIFLES! It's about the people defending themselves from the government!Write it on your hand so you don't forget!

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from SC-Texas wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Its time to stand up and make damned sure that the fudd writers and magazines get the message.We are ALL in the same boat and the sooner that they understand that minor little fact the sooner I will stop pounding their hard heads whenever they stick this up.This ignorant anti-gun attitude stops now.

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from M1Thumb wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

What an arrogant, pompous jerk you have proven to be.I'm glad you don't answer to anybody, Petzal. More importantly, I'm glad our freedoms don't answer to the likes of back-stabbing cowards like you.The Second Amendment is better off with out your "defense" of it.

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from Roger E. Reeves, Sr. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Most sports/gun writers write what their Co's want to hear. How do you thin they keep their jobs. If us Idios believed every thing teh writes had to say about guns, we all would have a room full of worthless junk. Yes, Junkies. As for Auto's or other guns, if one is banned, then look out, yours will be next.Once, writers wrote good hunting stories, now all they write about is a certain gun they used on the bench and to hunt with. Sure, they gonna get their animal, as they will hunt (all expenses paid) till they kill the game. Have you ever read of a Writer telling us DO NO BUY THIS GUN. No and never will. F&S is going down the tube as Sports Afield did if they don;t listen to the guys who buy and support sporting mdse.One gun banned, and sooner or later all will be banned.

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from Lawrence wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

My first gun was an old Winchester lever action rifle. I hunted deer and bear with it for many years. Guess what...that old hunting rifle was originally designed for war. We are all in the same camp. Whether you shoot black rifles or lever guns, you're still a gun owner. I am 87 and know this, you'd think some guys in their 60's would know this and more!!

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I just look at it this way we (the EBR crowd) just kind of desended in and took over this board. Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing becuase A. It's a public space and B. I think we honestly opened a lot of peoples eyes that otherwise out of touch with the big picture. It's just that we're now in a position to start reaching out and cementing some aliances that would really P/O the antis. So lets tread if not lightly ... thoughfully. Thank you.G/UK

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from Jeb wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

THE MILLION GUN MARCH IS COMING AND ITS GOING TO GET UGLY! DOWN WITH WASHINGTON SOCIALIST TRAITORS! DOWN WITH ALL TRAITORS!Where is the outrage from the New World Order supporting traitors in Washington? TIME FOR US TO PURGE THE Marxist IN WASHINGTON! These ANTI's are "the most insidious of traitors."

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I thanked Fred!I just don't see this as some complex issue as some would have people beleive.Support it / don't suppot it. I'm neither worked up,angry,sad,disappointed etc....as far as your couriosity goes I'll be contacting said folks as well as others.Thanks

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

LOL some where right now there's an anti sitting in front of a computer screen screaming NOOOOOOOOooooooo! Dan and Fred are talking civilly twds one another quick open a shill account and stir the pot!

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from Fred wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Dan, That's great, We should stay together to be able enjoy what we love to do in the future Fred

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dan,Take a deep breath bro. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who's lively hood is in the EBR industry. We've every right to be pissed but bashing everyone who sticks his head up is counter productive. Just because you fly fish and own a O/U doesn't make you a fudd. I've got no problems with direct blunt dialog with people that are defending the Fudd mentality but lashing out at people that support the 2A and you're EBR just becuase they aren't as thick skinned as you would like is almost as bad as what you're getting worked up about in the first place. Just out of couriosity have your contacted Swarovski or any of the other FS sponsors about this issue?G/UK

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Thanks Fred,you see there is no rift as long as we can agree on the 2nd and my right to an EBR!

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from JS wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal,You need to stop drinking the kool aide. Your buddy sold everyone out & his apology does NOT come close to showing he yet "gets it". Apology be damed....While I have YOUR attention- why not explain why YOU Mr.Petzal want to refer to anyone who has disagreed with either Zumbo or you as "Mental patients". I suggest that you sir also step down from your position before you corrupt young minds with your drival and self-serving nonsense, 'ol buddy protectionism and what not. SOME here have not forgotton YOUR stance on the '94 AWB.Time to clean house; You and your buddy need to hit the road......

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from Silvestris wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Gee Dan, I don’t know about Fred, but I support the 2ND Amendment and would support your right to own even a fully automatic EBR. Heck, I wouldn’t mind if they sold them at Walmart. All the anger and irrationality I’m seeing here in response makes me wonder if I am sadly mistaken in that view. I would prefer the owner of any firearm to be reasonably rational in addition to law abiding. I am not calling you irrational of course, you are understandably passionate about what you believe, but some posts on this blog are a little much.

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from Fred wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Dan, Please do not get so excited. I just posted that I do support 2nd and your right to own and enjoy EBR.

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Time to weed the posers with the question:Do you support the 2nd and my right to have an EBR?I'm tired of hearin the Fudds piss and moan about how vile,angry and sad it is that they are now exposed!

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Or just get over yourself,freedom is messy!

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from Butch wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have contacted Chevy, Toyota, Swarovski, and others. Most have said that emails are piling up. Keep up the good work!

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Seems Fred has shown his colors,Oh the sadness,Oh the anger,OH FRED-YOUR A FUDD!Support the 2nd or get out!

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from Fred wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Don, Yes, I do support the 2nd and your right to have and enjoy EBR.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dan , Very well put, Wm Stojack

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from AndyC wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Posted by John: "It amazes me that there are even considered to be two different groups - hunters vs shooters. I always that we were one & the same...thought we all loved guns - all guns - and enjoyed shooting them as much as we could, and defending the 2nd amendment as well. It greatly saddens me to learn that there is a rift between the two groups."I hear what you're saying, John - for me, it came as a huge shock and an even bigger sense of betrayal that a few gunwriters exposed how FUDDs really feel about us EBR-folks. We always thought they were regular pro-gun folk like us as well (albeit a touch snobby), but it's like finding out that your best friend has been molesting your child; violated by the people you trusted intimately.That shock, nay, that *rage* which we're seeing now is in direct proportion to our feelings of abuse and betrayal. That they are willing to throw us EBR-people from the sled to protect their own selfish desires is absolutely unforgiveable and so far beneath contempt that words simply fail me.As mentioned before, hunters themselves are not automatically Fudds - only those types who, in their arrogance and selfishness, would willingly sacrifice those whose interests differ from theirs.Savvy? ;)

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Fred,do you support the 2nd and my right to have an EBR?

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from Fred wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I am traditionalist, like walnut stocks, bolt action rifles and over and under shotguns.It is very sad what I am reading here - "divison between little people and elitist snobs, shooters vs. hunters" etc.Dear coleagues, black gun owners - your hate and anger dig grave for the entire shooting/outdoor community please be reasonable.

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from Monte Stanloski wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

So far, Swarovski, Chevy and Jack Daniels Racing. But these might be specific to F&S. A good place to start though.

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from Monte Stanloski wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well, Mr. Petzal. Your apology would be meaningless and you can write about the Zumbo matter further in the Brady space.This "yahoo" has begun to contact your sponsors.

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from Dan Bothwell wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Would someone please post a list of companies who sponsor/support Petzal? I want to know who else I can't trust in the shooting world!

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from Mike wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yep, you and other "hunters" posting in this blog would have me give up my right to own a semi-auto like an AR, so you could keep your bolt action.That's really sad.......I'm ashamed that you call yourselves hunters.You certainly don't believe in The Constitution or 2nd Amandment.The lack of knowledge and ignorance shown in this blog is incredable.Those you think the AR is inaccurate need to visit Camp Perry.My subscription to F&S has been cancelled.

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from flintinfrizzen wrote 5 years 29 weeks ago

I realize there is a huge gap in time between my posts on this issue, but I couldn't help noticing the juvenile nature of my above posting (two or three up, I think). I beg your forgiveness, for I've forgotten how others laughed at my bad hearing. If one can't help his situation, why contribute to his hardship? Also, forgive my straying from the topic at hand. A gun, any gun, is a tool that we have the right to own, and only we should be the judges of what specifications we require for whatever purpose.

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from hooka wrote 5 years 33 weeks ago

This is my first time visiting your site and i must say i like it very much.Your message was an interesting read.I will definetly come back here more often!hooka

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from Papper Shredders wrote 5 years 39 weeks ago

They seem so simple, but this kind of organization will help save a lot of time. It can also help you appear more professional and on-the-ball should you ever meet with clients in your home office.

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from flintinfrizzen wrote 6 years 8 weeks ago

I read this comment elsewhere (I forget where and by whom), but in some situations it fits precisely: "Fighting online is like the special olympics-even if you win, you're still retarded." I know this is a cruel, crude comment, but I couldn't help laughing my a$$ off. #@!* it's starting again! Lord help me!

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from Ron Santarpio wrote 6 years 11 weeks ago

Can you supply reloading info for the Broomhandle Mauser in 30Cal?Bullet dia >308 or is it .309?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 6 years 47 weeks ago

Give it a rest, please... you're all preaching united we stand divided we fall and then doing the exact opposite!!!

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from Visitor wrote 6 years 47 weeks ago

Remember everyone the man claims he never said this, even though it was printed in black and white in Field and Stream."at some point we must face the fact that an Uzi or an AKM or an Ak-47 should no more be generally available than a Claymore mine or a block of C4 explosive. It is time for these guns to be limited to people with Treasury Department licenses, just as with fully automatic arms. I doubt if anyone would suffer much without assault weapons. Surely, we will suffer with them."-- Column by David Petzal, "Endangered Tradition" column in Field and Stream, June 1994.

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from Brian wrote 6 years 51 weeks ago

Well ladies and gentlemen when I was in grammer school i was taught that all the ammendments of the Constitution of the United states were important not just the ones i like. i do not agree with mr. zumbos comments but i do agree with mr. petzels and want to say when we stop protection of the First Amendment then the Second will be sure to follow.

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from Brian wrote 6 years 51 weeks ago

Well ladies and gentlemen when I was in grammer school i was taught that all the ammendments of the Constitution of the United states were important not just the ones i like. i do not agree with mr. zumbos comments but i do agree with mr. petzels and want to say when we stop protection of the First Amendment then the Second will be sure to follow.

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from tford wrote 7 years 6 days ago

"Gun Nut?" Why would you eaven go there? You and I both know that one word to the anti's from any of you gun writers is "bolld in the water!"Forget the Mia Copa's, and start standing up for ALL gun right's!We do not need any more Nevil Chamberlins in our ranks, we need more Winston Churchill's!Tom Ford

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from Roger Reeves wrote 7 years 4 weeks ago

Man o Man: Will this subject ever end? It's not the type gun I;m afraid of , it's those IDIOTS who use them that bothers me. As for me, I've said, wrote, etc. many things I wish I had not done so. Why not let this Issue of Black guns/Zumbo die and move on to other subjects, such as hunting. As for type of gun to use, I suggest you hunt with what-ever is comfortable for you. I'm a true gun NUT, don;t want all the guns, just one of each. Also, if the readers on this bog don;t like what is stated by Dave, for gods sake read something you do agree with in another magazine or screen. For past month, all we have read and written is bitching about someone's opinion, don;t each of us have a opinion?Roger

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from tford wrote 7 years 4 weeks ago

At this juncture in firearms history, when we have every rabid anti gun fool in Congress, why would you come out against any firearm?Winston Churchill once said "an appeaser is one who feeds the aligator, hoping he will eat him last."Your either on our side, or yur not, make up your mind!tford

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from Jonas wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Fifty Caliber Institute AlertMarch 8, 2007Illinios Passes "Assault Weapons Ban" Out of Committee:Hot on the heels of the introduction of .50 ban legislation in NJ, the state of Illinois, yesterday, passed out of Senate committee a bill of its own banning the caliber.SB16, Chicago Mayor Daley's "Assault Weapons Ban" legislation can now move to the Illinois Senate for a vote at any time. The bill would require Illinois citizens to register a huge list of firearms (rifles and shotguns) with the state police and prohibit future ownership.Included in the ban are .50 BMG caliber target rifles, .50 BMG caliber ammunition, and large capacity ammunition magazines of any caliber. Prohibiting the sale, transfer, and ownership, Illinois residents would have 90 days to register them or face felony charges. Manufacture of a .50 BMG caliber firearm or .50 BMG caliber ammunition is prohibited. (You will no longer be able to reload your own .50 ammo!)Exceptions were granted to military & law enforcement, the movie industry, and competitions held only at the Sparta IL shooting complex.The caliber banned is any .50. Exceptions are granted only for firearms defined as "antique" by United States Code 18, Section 921(a) (16).The bill was passed out of the Senate Public Health Committee on Wednesday March 7. What's particularly onerous about all this is that, while those in favor of the legislation were allowed to testify for the bill, NO ONE was allowed to testify against it, under the orders of Committee Chairman Susan Garrett.Apparently the last shreds of freedom have finally been torn from the fingers of Illinois residents.Firearms owners in Illinois, .50 caliber or otherwise, should IMMEDIATELY contact their legislators and recover their constitutional rights.Details of the bill can be found here: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/default.aspYou can find your Senator's contact information here: http://www.ilga.gov/senate/Do it today, before the knock at your door.Fifty Caliber Institutewww.fiftycal.org

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from Gig wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Thank you for taking the time to contact me. I value thecorrespondence I get from people back home in Wisconsin, and Iwould like to take this opportunity to address your concerns.As you may know, H.R. 1022, the Assault Weapons Banand Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007, was introduced byRepresentative Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) on February 13, 2007.This legislation would reinstate the federal ban on the sale ofcertain semi-automatic assault weapons. This prohibition, whichwas originally passed as part of the Violent Crime Control andLaw Enforcement Act of 1994, expired on September 30, 2004.I agree that the right of law abiding Americans to own agun should be protected. However, laws prohibiting felons andother potentially dangerous individuals from owning guns arereasonable and effective ways to reduce violent crime in ourcommunities. In the past, the Senate has considered a variety ofgun safety measures. I carefully evaluate each of these proposals,and I only support gun control legislation that corresponds to twoimportant principles. First, I do not believe we should deprive lawabiding gun owners, particularly hunters and target shooters, oftheir Second Amendment rights. Second, I only support proposalsthat I believe will unquestionably make our communities safer.H.R. 1022 has been referred to the House Committee on theJudiciary. Similar legislation has not yet been introduced in theSenate. I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind should thislegislation be considered by the Senate.Again, thank you for contacting me. I appreciate hearingfrom you.Sincerely,Herb KohlU.S. Senator

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from Blckhrn wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

http://forums.gunbroker.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4 Zumbo was right.GET OVER IT NUTBALLS

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Good job Mike, Yea that is ironic. But don't think about putting a folder on that 10-22 thats an "Evil" feature. The peasants are not worthy. Sad isn't it. If any of this legislation gets over on us, firearms R & D work will die out. Wm Stojack

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from Mike Diehl wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Thanks Wm.I sent in my NRA app form & fee today just to stand with you guys... even though as it turns out HR1022 exempts .22cal rimfire from the magazine capacity limit. Ironic name for that bill don't you think?Wish the Mini 30 came in a Mini .30-06.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Hi Mike, The "word" on the street here is that the Zombies are now wearing goalie masks, fritz helmets & body armor. So I guess that the bottom line is use what you feel best with. And in the latest legislation (HR 1022) both those items would be banned anyway. Heck, the folks in Cal can't have bayonet-lugs ,( there was that rash of drive-bys with them a few years back in Fresno )So your choice is up to you. For now. Wm Stojack

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from Mike Diehl wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

I'm a "Fudd" kind of guy who also totally supports "EBR" firearms ownership. I have a serious question ('tho I'm trying to bring out the humour in all this) for the "EBR" crowd.What's the attraction? If you ever needed to repel an Undead Hoard, wouldn't a .22LR semiauto like the 10/.22 with, say, four or five preloaded 50 round magazines and a low power scope serve your needs better?

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from Lloyd wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago
from Steve Holsten wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

http://216.22.2.74/cgi-local/ffa2.cgi?noframes Second Amendment Gun Shop'sdie Volkenwaffen Kammer"The Peoples Armory"

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

BinzWoW! That was a well written disertation. Not that I agree with very much of it but well written none the less. Excuse me for being somewhat more brief in my reply.Having been around the world more than just a few times and having the seen first hand the results of facist's and other classes of despots I have a somewhat different view of things. Your's is more than just a little niave (I probably mispelled that but I really don't care). Before you talk about US not tortouring people in WWII you should really talk to some of the fine gentlemen who served in that era. There are about 1 Billion people in the world that would love nothing better than to cut your head off with a dull knife. They could care less about rights freedoms and what not. The only thing that matters to them is impossing Sharia on the world. They are well positioned in this country allready and when they decide to kick it off you won't have the luxury of whining into your Wash Post. The only thing they understand is brute force. Unfortuantely America has probably seen her zeinith and she's not going to go down with a crash. It's going be a slow and lingering thing. We're seeing the first signs right now. PC armchair commentators forcing our troops to fight with ludicrous rules of engagement against an enemy that won't even adhere to the low standards of engagement that our Nazi foes followed in WWII. And by the way some of the members of the "Greatest Generation" tortoured the $h!t out some Nazi's if the situation demanded it. But that's just my 2 cents.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Bobby, Glad you are here to express your opinion. Is there any other point you care to express ? So All of these folks that disagree with your stand are now lumped in a big pile with Pot Pol etc. I read your post twice , but I still cannot see where you are coming from on some of your statements. Obviously you are entitled to them. But they seem to have the feel to them that you also take exception to from others ? I thought that Dave just posted a new column on barrel length ? So the censorship is where ? I have not called for much of anything from Dave____ Wm Stojack

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from bobby binzer wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

AIRFORCE, I made a mistake.I looked again and I saw you were not the person with the inane demand for an 'appology' (there seems to be several of those in here).I see now that as my browser loads slowly, I got parts of the column of comments, and your name on your post appeared at the bottom. I thought it was you. I'm sorry.But dang, kind of shot myself in the foot, didn't I, railing on you sounding just like some of the fools I was railing against.Oh but you 'Dave you traitor-this' and 'Dave you traitor-that' twits are not off the hook. Don't even think it extends to there. That kind of stuff is beyond foolishness.binz

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from bobby binzer wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

The people here love to play with the bigness of their littleness.So esoteric a discussion, so passionate about so very little.I'm a gun owner, but I can't understand for the life of me why so many insist on minutiae as if their own definition of being depended on it.So many here exalt and split hairs over the bathwater and have no clue about the baby.And for those who simply cannot ever resist bringing up Clinton (either male or female) -- Go get a real life. It's well into 2007 now. Hello -- where have you been for most of the past decade? Time to grow up and move on. Didn't we get our black rifles back? Like, the better part of a decade ago?I don't give a hoot about getting my black rifles back.I want my habeas corpus back. And my privacy. And my sense of American decency that went along with knowing that we didn't torture people, no matter the situation or how heinous the crime of the war criminal. Because that's what fascists did. And Stalin's men. And we weren't like that. But not any more.But all the black rifles and Barret sniper rifles didn't seem to deter that from going away.What's the use of a thirty round now-legit pre-ban magazine if you are thrown in a jail without charges or access to counsel or ability to face your accusers? Oh, I've heard it before: Sticking someone's head in a wet bag until they think they are drowning isn't really torture. It's just 'harsh interrogation'. No more than frat-boy hijinks. Sure it is.I think the hi-cap sunset was a pacifier thrown to those most susceptible to this insidious rot. I think it worked, too.But wait! If you're white and Christian, why worry? Only culprits need fear. Herr Himmler said that himself.I'm glad I read this article and these comments. I'm glad the author had the integrity to say what he had to say.It's so revealing that being even nowhere near pro-gun lopsided is now so often seized upon as being somehow akin to treason. Dave even felt the need to defend himself -- "In case you’re wondering, I’ve been using black rifles since 1965". Please stop that, Dave. It detracts from the courage it took you to take your position, and does nothing for those who attack you. Do not apologize to fools. They will jump on you for even an extremely mild case of objectivity.Dave please stop defending your position against people who have no desire for critical thinking, have no desire other than to see things in black and white, and have no respect for differing viewpoints fairly presented. Calling you a Quisling is a cheap insult; it's an attack, and a cowardly one at that. It's easy to throw anonymous spitwads from the back of a big room.They're gonna hate you for even your *thinking* about being even-handed. Which incidentally, as you knew and tried to point out, you weren't. Not especially. You were able to take a temporary objective view. But Dave you are dealing with a readership of very conservative people. A hypocritical sleight-of-hand conservatism, as conservatism now is in reality radical. Both fascism and communism in the '30s were radical. I'd be surprised if you haven't gotten any death threats from this stuff (as silly and trivial and ridiculous and petty as this whole subject seems). After all, you already were compared here in the comments to a fascist traitor -- and keep in mind what happened to ol' Vidkun. And we all know what they do to traitors. Thus to tyrants, and all that.Well poor Dave. You are probably now learning that anything remotely approaching objectivity is a no-no (and you sure as heck weren't skewed toward them gun-bannin' libruls -- you made it very clear on that score) but alas, to no avail. No effort is extreme enough when you are dealing with extremists.Stupid stunted shriveled rightwing authoritarians.How else can one explain what's behind this veiled threat of a post of "Thanks a lot, Dave. Quisling then, Quisling now."?Vidkun Quisling was the name of a Norwegian who played the willing puppet to his Fascist masters. And for those Google-impaired Fox News readers, please look up 'fascist'. It's not the same as you've been told. Is about as far away from liberalism or New Deal as it is from Goldwater conservatism. But not too far from what's going right... um.. shh. Hate to get called a traitor. Nasty business. People like to act out on it, think they're Lord Protectors of the Realm and all that. Defenders of Democracy. Patriots. And they don't have worry about volunteering to go to Iraq. That can get messy, crimp one's lifestyle. Or just crimp one's life. Taking a baseball bat to my mailbox or threatening my wife is so easy. No real danger, no real sacrifice. Just like those "support the troops" yellow ribbons on those SUVs. For a dollar ninety-nine, apparently one can buy immunity to the irony.Say, why are we in Iraq? Can't be about oil. I know Cheney still says Saddam was behind 9\11 and all that, but everyone else in the world, including the 9\11 Commission, says that's soap bubbles. Saudis flew those planes. Fifteen of the 19. More than three quarters. They own more than three quarters of the oil, too. None came from Iraq. None from Iran. None were based in Iraq. Nor Iran. None had any connection with Iraq. None with Iran. Even Cheney really knew. That's why Scooter Libby now has to go to jail.Smile when you fill up your SUV. That dollar ninety-nine fake yellow ribbon is a bargain, if that's all Iraq cost you.Oh. So sorry. Traitorous of me, wasn't that? Undermining the War effort and all that.Say, why are we in Iraq?Well I'm a traitor, too, Dave. Been called that before, 4 years before, just for the attempt at objectivity. Only now it looks like I was one of the few who wasn't the fool, the only one who didn't betray.I still believe in America, but it's America as what it was.We don't torture. And we don't start wars with people who don't attack us. And we don't spy on citizens. And we don't throw American citizens into jail without charges or trials or even seeing a lawyers. Even if they are from the poorest families, with checkered backgrounds or past records, we still believe in innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. And we don't torture anyone. Period. Neither Nazis nor Commies nor enemy non-combatants nor enemy combatants. We don't torture political prisoners, or those under suspicion, or those caught red-handed, or those who are like the Jeffry Dahmers, or the Ted Bundys, or the Mansons, nor do we torture the sick, the deranged, the murderers, the mass-murderers, the monsters, the psychos or the truly evil. Because torturing people is what the truly evil do.Except that we do. Now we do. Just like the Stalinists, just like the fascists. Just like Pol Pot. Just like Pinochet.But I am no doubt a traitor.I suspect the commenter in question who called you a Quisling is most unwilling to face the possibility of projection. Usually when someone implies "fascist", you know you are hearing from the same.Dave you played it professional, with your own voice and your own take, without pandering and without pretending you had no voice or take on it either. And from this blog I can tell so many hate you for it.Recall in 1933 Germany any but the most extreme were denounced by passing gangs of Brownshirts as being not extreme enough.Well Brownshirts and Brownshirt-wannabees, go clutch your black rifles. Fat lot of good it did. You people are the living embodiment of the most persuasive argument why the 2nd Amendment is outdated and useless.Yah, OK "AIRFORCE" (guess you never hear of lowercase letters, huh?) I hear your bleating: "Most of us just want Mr. P to acknowledge his support for the original AWB and appologize for insulting us."Like expressing a differing opinion is insulting? Why is it insulting to you personally? Why should Dave apologize to you -- because you simply didn't agree with what he wrote? Will it make you sleep better? Make you feel more secure? What do you hope to gain by an apology? If this isn't your own personal powertrip, then why should you care?However, I certainly won't diss AIRFORCE for not knowing how to spell apologize. Nope. Sorry, wouldn't stoop that low to someone addicted to UPPERCASE for his online NAME.Oh. 'Scuze me. I was SHOUTING there for a minnit. BOLD NOISE MEANS I WIN, I suppose.But let me say it seems to diminish your argument, AIRFORCE, that Dave provide you with an 'appoligy'. After all, why should he 'appoligize' to you for his not sharing your precise and exact same sentiments? It's not like you hold yourself to similar exacting and precise standards -- hey, you didn't spell 'apology' exactly and precisely, even when you wanted to.I'd hope Dave has as much reason to concern himself to 'appoligize' to you for his failure to split hairs and reassure you on subtle differences between his and YOUR opinion as you have reason to concern yourself with your failure to split hairs and make subtle differences between 'appoligy' and 'appology'.Really, dude. It's amazing to hear someone demand an apology when you can't even spell it. You really want me to believe you understood what Dave was talking about?I love my guns, love having the right to own them; hate the gunnut stupidity that makes it hard to argue otherwise.So many of the people commenting here are our own worst enemies. Danged if these people can't see that. Danged if these people won't see why they provide a good argument as to why the 2nd amendment is no longer of any use. Danged if they don't provide the best possible ammunition for why people should see them as fixated on the same beetles crawling on the same bark of a single tree while utterly oblivious to the entire forest.But I'm pretty sure I know what the people here call people who worry about the forest. Tree huggers.Half this country has a good argument against everything most of these commenters go nuts over. And everytime most of the people here open their mouths, they just dig themselves in deeper.Fifty-fifty ain't good odds.Thanx a bunch. Really. I like owning my firearms. So thanx a bunch. You people really were a big help.

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from Randy wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Why, should you be treated any different then Jim.Stand down, no second chance.

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from Randy wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Why, should you be treated any different then Jim.Stand down, no second chance.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Airforce,People are pretty calm now. Even when this all started and this page was getting like 4 hits a minute there were some strong words and some of the dialog was a little over the top but most of it centered on the issue at hand. If you actually go through and read it all there are allot of instances were people found out they weren't that far apart after all. Most of us just want Mr. P to acknowledge his support for the origional AWB and appologize for insulting us. He doesn't have to loose his livelyhood like some people in the EBR industry did as a result of what he contribuuted to.G/UK

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from AIRFORCE wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

Follow along everyone....................breath in.................exhale..............breath in................exhale..............AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH. Seriously calm down. Are you all just a bunch of head hunters wanting blood. If you don't shut up now you will kill this man's career. Do you all want that on your heads. This mans job is to envoke thought and response. He's doing his job. No doubt you have said stupid things that you wish you could take back. No wonder he hasn't responded to any of it. Keep on keepin on Dave.

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from elmer wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

The 2A isn't about hunting it's about gun ownership. Got it. No right to hunt, therefore no right to hunt with EBR. As was mentioned earlier States have been deciding legal hunting implements for years.One thing to keep in mind, not having 2A protection the hunting crowd is much more vulnerable when it comes to anti-hunting legislation, much of which is public referendum vote. That's why image becomes so important. When we lose public support, we lose hunting privledges, such as hunting with an EBR. Which isn't an attack on 2A rights, so we've been told.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

I just got a sweet Bulgee AK-74 (semi-auto) in trade. I'm trying to decide between leaving it in 5.45 and just using it for a blaster or convert it to 6.5G or 6.8 SPC and take up deer hunting again. BTW I support Panther Arms in their right to make command decisions based upon the feedback from their customer base but like I said earlier I think old Zumbo took enough of a beating on this. It might have been late but he did fully acknowledge that he was wrong and appologize. I would speculate he is in a financial situation where he could have just said FYT and retired. Instead he's making an effort to make things right. I heard he's actually going to attend a top notch tactical course and pen an article for SWAT magazine.Oh and Bill if things go well this summer I'm going to get finger printed, have my background check done, sign away all my protections from illegal serch and seizure and drop a paycheck to get my class III manufacturer's permit. It'd be nice if the ATF gave some of that money to help out conservation but they claim to need it. I'll let you know when it comes in you'll have to bring "the ole man" down for some full auto silenced goodness. Still say this site needs emotocons.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 6 weeks ago

I for one laud both Greg & Mark for their rational discourse. Nice change isn't it? Still no response to the questions I posed to Alex. Take your time. It seems as though we don't have just a "gap" in thinking. Are we not here to narrow this down? Lets go with some facts ! And how do we help ourselves? Do we go foreward or ? The last thing anyone needs is a replay of '68, '86, '94 , etc. I think that part of the component that resulted in those laws was ignorance and "scare tactics"But that said, maybe as some have pointed out, the vote with our dollars is even more effective than our electoral vote. And we have a means of communication that was only a dream then , the Net. ____Wm Stojack

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from Mark wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dirtcrashr's quoting of Petzal's 1994 anti "military" diatribe shows just what all hunters and gun enthusiasts need to fear. A person posing as a man on our side saying what we use/like or want is wrong. What more does an anti need than "our own kind" saying we are wrong? Find a new line of work Petzal- I think the Brady group might hire you.

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from Greg wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I've noticed that Alex Pohl (much like his preferred author Petzal) can't seem to make an argument without attacking his opponent (a favored liberal tactic). Calling somebody who wishes to own an AR-15 a Rambo of America is pretty cheap, disingenuous and low class. You admitted you're "ill-informed" about the legality of these weapons yet feel free to post comments on whether they should be legal or not and cannot understand why somebody might get upset when you attempt to take away their 2A rights.Referring to these weapons as "various tactical toys" is not an attempt to elevate the discourse and is simply another slam on AR gun owners instead of any attempt to discuss the matter or learn something.Opining that a person who owns an AR would somehow be happier living in Iraq, Afghanistan or some other 3rd world country where they would need armored cars and AK-47's simply because they wish to own an AR is a ludicrous and asinine argument that serves only to further insult your opponents instead of trying to discuss this civilly with them.And posting that people who disagree with Zumbo's and Petzal's statements would like to live in those same countries so they could issue fatwas against anyone who disagrees with them is ignorant, asinine and reprehensible.You claim that the NRA issued fatwas (those are religious orders to kill somebody in a holy war) against Jim Zumbo. You have libeled the NRA with what proof??You talk about the need for rational arguments instead of body armor and firepower, then post such ludicrous and libelous statements. Exactly how do you think your "irrational" statement is going to solve anything?

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from Greg wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Nuge just posted this on his forum yesterday so DPMS' action is confirmed (see quote below). Nugent referred to all of this incident with Zumbo, Petzal and himself (Nugent) as 2A insanity. He's right.There are many gun owners and hunters who do not like certain weapons and therefore do not support their ownership. These same people then get mad when the affected gun owners get mad about having their 2A rights trashed (so to speak) by fellow gun owners and hunters.Instead of admitting that we ALL need to support ALL aspects of the 2A, this minority is continuing to argue that their opinion is a valid one that should have no repercussions from AR-15 owners, etc.Essentially, Petzal, Zumbo and their supporters want to have freedom of speech yet shout down the rest of us for attempting to exercise that same right and are also demanding freedom from the consequences of their speech. This double standard simply isn't going over well with AR-15 owners and other 2A supporters who believe it encompasses all weapons and not just select "hunting" weapons.At some point, ALL gun owners, hunters and even fishermen need to realize we either band together and support each others' rights or face being divided, conquered (politically) and losing some if not all of our rights to own firearms, bows, fishing tackle and to hunt and fish with them."My BloodBrothers, I have never asked for personal assistance on my own behalf, however, DPMS Panther Arms claim they are getting hammered by the antigunners amongst us (lunatic fringe for sure) to abandon any relationship with me or my TV show for my stand to upgrade Jim Zumbo into a pro-DPMS rifle guy. HUH!!! Unbelievable for sure, but the cannibals amongst us are beyond xplanation. I respectfully request any of you who care, to write a brief, POLITE note to DPMS boss Randy Luth via Sasha at NugentUSA@cs.com, with your take on my standing up to educate upgrade & recruit JZ & his Nugely discovered 2nd Amendment absolutism. Ya with me? ASAP plz!! Brief & POLITE! HITIT! Happy shootemup weekend![This message has been edited by NUGE (edited 03-02-2007).]"

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I don't know how you managed to deternined that I'm "giddy", over the internet. But that aside, who is it that "i'm treating" , and in what manner? You, the Nuge ? I posted what is taking place according to the TNUSA board, and ? I would think that he has supporters here who could add their voices, and come to his aid with E-Mails etc. And you want ? And "the implosion" is ? Did I mis-state something ? I think not.___Wm Stojack

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from Nugentfan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well Mr. Stojack it would seem that you Sir are giddy with excitement that DPMS threw Nugent under the bus.It's a sad day indeed when a person who's a strident supporter of the 2a and is trying to help another human being gets treated in this manner.DPMS has received a letter from me concerning their lack of decency and testicular fortitude in the matter and I encourage ALL gun owners to do the same.Hopefully another AR manufacturer will step up and offer to help sponsor Ted's show.Let the implosion continue.

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from Jubal wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

In a message dated 2/27/2007 4:59:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, lindamuller@buchanan.org writes:Dear Brigade,As you know I am also the WebMaster for Jim Gilchrist and the Minuteman Project [MMP]. See below my latest MMP email. I am asking you to forward this email everywhere and ask others to pass it on as well. Upload it to message boards, and post it on websites. We need your help to let the world know about these shameful, greed-driven and downright diabolical conspirators.As always, for the Cause - LindaPS -- Within the last few minutes they also hacked into our MMP website and took control of it - they put up an "under construction" sign. For now, stay tuned to our www.forthecause.us site for MMP news and updates.-----------Dear Minutemen,Yes it is true. Several people who Jim Gilchrist fully trusted have put their pursuit of money and power above the Cause. They conspired to remove Jim Gilchrist as head of the Minuteman Project and insertthemselves in positions of power in the organization.Who are these individuals?Deborah Peterson - AKA Deborah CourtneyMarvin Stewart - a quasi-Minister and government workerBarbara Coe - California Coalition for Immigration ReformI am still stunned. Did they really think that all of us would just roll over and let this happen?See the MMP press release below and please note the following about these three individuals:1. Using stolen passwords they hacked into our Web Servers and changed the passwords for several of our accounts.2. They took control of all our Minuteman Project email addresses. As of right now, all email sent to anyone @minutemanproject.com goes to these corporate raiders. We are forced to use our personal email addresses until this is resolved in court. You can contact us at:Linda Muller [WebMaster] - lindamuller@forthecause.usJim Gilchrist [MMP Founder]- century21minuteman@sbcglobal.netTim Bueler [Media] - media@timbueler.com3. It also looks like they might have stolen our email list. If you, as a member of the Minuteman Project email list, receive email claiming it is from the MMP, from anyone other than me, Tim or Jim, please remember it is bogus.4. They stole over 20,000 pages of our letterhead stationery and envelopes bearing Jim Gilchrist's personal signature. Needless to say if you receive any letters in the mail that seem out of character, you will know they are from this band of devious conspirators.5. As of right now they have been unable to hack into our website - we still have full control over it. Tommy Crenshaw, who manages our system, is keeping watch on it round the clock. He says they are using sophisticated hacking tools to try and break into the Web Server. Thus far he has been able to thwart their incessant attempts to break in. Again, if you notice content on the website that seems out of character, you can assume that they were successful in taking over our website. If that happens, stay tuned to my personal website at www.forthecause.us for updates.For now I just wanted to make sure you know about our email addresses and the stolen stationery so you will not be confused if you are contacted by them. I will be writing up much more on this over the nextfew days and posting it on the www.minutemanproject.com and the www.forthecause.us websites... and also emailing it to several lists.Please help Jim Gilchrist and the Minuteman Project by sending this information across the USA. Post it on websites. Upload it to message boards and chat rooms.I for one will be damned if I will stand quietly by while Deborah Peterson [AKA Deborah Courtney], Marvin Stewart and Barbara Coe try to steal the Minuteman Project from Jim Gilchrist. How about you?As always, For the Cause - LindaAnd still the Minuteman Project Webmaster!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yes Sports-Fans ! Its confirmed! DPMS has pulled out ! It's another one! Might be tough to "Upgrade" this turn of events. You can speak your mind in this country, thats the 1st at work. But, you are the one to take the heat for your opinions . Is this "eating our own"? Or is it "culling the herd of the weak"? Or, what ?---- Wm Stojack

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

There's a thought ! It is for the children, right ?NEWS FLASH, NEWS FLASH ! Will the NUGE take heat for "Upgrading" (whatever that is) "Z-Man"? Seems so. His web site is in an uproar ! Seems a outfit called DPMS-Panther Arms ( Major EBR Mfg.)has announced on it's Homepage that they are dropping sponsorship of the Nuge's TV show. Wow ! There is not a sound of this on the Web , no out cry for Nuges head. They just did it, out of the wild blue !___Wm Stojack

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from Up Grade wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hillary Must be Elected Our Queen!

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

And these folks that are feared to be running amok thorough the streets where? When? In my area the Law Enforcement folks would be there in in a heartbeat. As I would expect them too. And in case it has escaped your notice, they are almost as heavily armed as the Military. Because of my "EBRs" ? No, its not. The courts have found , years ago , in a Civil Suit ,that the "police" have no responsibility to protect you, me or anyone else! Do you feel then that the "military" will? Oh, the Gov of your state can use the National Guard , (the real Militia in the 2nd, right!) Call them? No, it's on you. Someone previously mentioned the "LA Riots", more recently "Katrina". I was on the ground for 21 days after "Andrew" is South Fla. Saw a lot of legally armed property owners. There were areas that had not seen LE , Fire, for 4-6 weeks! The "veener of civilization was wearing thin ". But, you could move to the "safe" DC Metro area where the possesion of "Any Firearm" has been banned for years. And there is a 40% higher chance of you being a "gunshot victim " than in Bagdad, today ! Thats based on incidents per 100 K residents. I know that it won't apply to the deer-stand, but the stats are out there , that the simple presence of a firearm PREVENTS, yes PREVENTS untold thousands of violent acts against folks, (like me & you , or our loved ones ) every single year. The reseachers did not mention mode of dress in any of the studies that I'm aware of. I do see local LE in cammies, lots of it the last time I was at the Pro Bass store ! ______Wm Stojack

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from David wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I can't help but notice how all the Fudds seem to be making their "final word" on the subject. Very Liberal of you to do that as that is a common tactic of those who no longer have a valid point to make. You attempt to silence the issue alltogether when you are totally outclassed and out-ed for your lack of knowledge and command of the facts. I sometimes find myself wishing for total gun bans just to see how loud you'll scream when "they" come after "your" hunting/sporting purposes" guns.This whole fiasco was set in motion ny one of your own who skinned HIS ignorance and intolerance for that which he knew knothing about, by his own admission I might add. Petzal has now ever tried denying that which he penned back in 1984 in an effort to save his hide. Hey Petzal, news flash for ya..."WE" know what you said, HOW you said it, and in what context. Put that in your Pigeon Grade and snag the trigger.The 2nd Amendment is about ALL guns, not just a certain few that some Fudd prefers to take out to pick off a few of those deadly skeets that seem to be menacing civilized society. Maybe we need to ban skeets since they serve no useful purpose. Oh, excuse me? They serve to sharpen one's skills at hitting a moving target? Well now, NOBODY really needs to be shooting at a moving target now do they? Unless of course they "might" be planning on executing a terrorist act and that's how they practice to hit people.....like POLICE OFFICERS, with those deadly cop-killer #8 shot loads. Yeah, you CAN kill a man with those damn things. Why on earth would ANY reasonable, rational, thinking, person even want to own one of those evil double barrel shotguns? They are only made for one purpose and that is KILLING something.Are you listening now Fudds???????? Two can play the same game you know. Rest well assured, us black rifle owners will NOT forget where you "really" stand and "WHAT" you really stand for.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Alex,I have to side with SSR where are these ravening bands of hallucinary Phsycos of which you speak? Nobodies saying that Mr. Zumbo or Mr. Petzal shouldn't be able to say what ever they want. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consiquences for what you say. If everyone said "exuse me but I don't agree with you" nobody outside the shooting sports would have heard that and the anti's on top of having a peach peice of propaganda would be able to say "See the shooters in this country agree with them cause nothing happened". I can forgive both of them their comments but unfortuantley the can never be erased. If they were really representative of the shooting comunitty in general they'd have had no issues and nobody would have complained. They weren't however and people have every right under their own 1A freedoms to express that disapproval with the sponsors because they are also the purchasers of these products and contributing to these guys paychecks.

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from David Loeffler wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Good. Enough about Zumbo.

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"I doubt that James Madison would want to see an America sprouting pockets of AR-armed hallucinatory paranoiacs who think they are entitled to don camo fatigues, boots and bandoleros"So now should we ban camo and boots? Again this is basing the argument upon appearances, not action adn function. Are people in camo and boots running through the streets shooting people with ARs? It is not a problem. Why are you using these arguments that are not realistically stating any problem. What about the Ar owners dressed like preppies. Should we just ban ARs for those that pass the dress code?I think the founding fathers knew exactly what they were doing and saying. The 2nd has exactly the meaning today that it had years ago. Armies can be defeated and wiped out. The US will not remain the world power for the rest of time. It will not happen. Our military will remain the most powerful forever.Armies can be wiped out and defeated. Our military could be defeated some day. Then, as a country, we would be naked. The 2nd is to prevent takeover and occupation. If Iraq should teach us anything it's taht even we, as the most powerful military in world history, cannot stay and occupy Iraq indefinitely. We cannot sustain the human, emotional, and finacial costs. And Iraq is some second rate two-bit country. Because when it comes to occupation, it comes down to individual soldiers on the ground with small arms, in patrols. And they can be fought with small arms among other things. If our military is ever wiped out (way past our lifetimes probably), a militia will arise and fight an occupation. The 2nd has teh exact meaning today that it had many years ago. It is to protect the long term survival of the United States as a sovereign country. The purpose is US survival.

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from Alex wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Matt,I must say I feel funny being manoeuvred into taking making the "liberal" argument--I'm not used to it. The 2A is not obsolete; it's just problematical. I doubt that James Madison would want to see an America sprouting pockets of AR-armed hallucinatory paranoiacs who think they are entitled to don camo fatigues, boots and bandoleros and take matters into their own hands every time they have a real or perceived grievance. I believe in the lawful bearer of arms, the "well regulated" militia of the 2A, "well regulated" being the operative expression. And I don't want to see an America where people like Zumbo and Dave Petzal are treated to an inquisitional blacklisting.The people of Al Qaeda, I'm sure, also admire the 2A much more than the 1A. They'd let you have all the tactical weapons you could ever dream of and let you fire on the evil U.S. government and its representatives, and everybody else, to your heart's content. They also deal with dissent in a no-nonesense way that would gladden the hearts of those applauding Mr. Zumbo's treatment and now calling for Mr. Petzal's blood.

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"As for the 2A, when it was written in the late 1780's, America had virtually no standing army. Police were far and few between; criminals probably got away with crimes more often than not; and Indians were still a menace on the frontier. The prevailing weapon was a cumbersome unrifled musket. Are we really expected to believe that nothing has changed?"Yeah, yeah. The same tired argument about times changing, the "living Constitution", etc. That is a lousy ploy used by many liberals to justify policies of theirs that everyone knows are unconstitutional in spades. Last time I read the Constitution, there were NO time limits on various rights and anyone with the slightest legal mind can make an argument that the First, Third, Fourth, etc, Amendments are as outdated as you perceive the Second to be. You don't like assault rifles? Fine, don't own them. You think the Second Amendment is a relic from the Revolution? Good for you. Don't use it. However, I do like assault rifles and believe the Founding Fathers gave us the Second Amendment to guarantee us the rest of the Constitution, so feel free to get off our case. I plan on keeping my assault weapons whether they give you the willies or not.P.S. No need for assault weapons? Where were you after Rodney King? Its sure wasn't in LA.

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from HerbHarry wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal/Zumbo - They do not speak for me.Outdoor Life/Field & StreamsThe is important, get it. I will vote with my dollars. I will not support or use products that contribute to ignorance about 2A issues. If you side with the anti-gunners on these issues it is not about freedom of speech, it is about ideas and fundamental truth. The anti-gunners are attacking us and ignorant and elitist writers like Mr. Petzal and Mr. Zumbo can not be allowed to be our spokesmen. Remember my words if you want my dollars. Petzal needs to retire to. Unfortunately I recognized the elitist nature of this magazine years ago and can't vote with my dollars, but others can.

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from ssr wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To the hunters who do not like black rifles and do not believe that banning them is wrong:It's just ANOTHER RIFLE! IT is not super powerful, or more deadly, or anything else the antis seem to believe. It's just another RIFLE shooting the same old cartridges!Once banning one kind of gun becomes acceptable to the masses, adding more to the list is a very simple process. It is truely incremental. It's JUST ANOTHER RIFLE.People say, well, we ban RPGs and bazookas, so why not "assault weapons". Well, we're NOT TALKING RPGs! We're TALKING RIFLES!

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from NUGE wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

We must upgrade with Jim Zumbo.We appreciate all of those who have made the very valuable contribution of upgrade with Jim Zumbo.We see this as a long-term upgrade.In any event, it’s hard for a name like zumbo not to be an upgrade. It was all about how we can make this UPGRADE together with JIM ZUMBO.We have started to upgrade without the upgrade.There are a few sections we must upgrade for our purposes. We must develop a message to link the major population centers in our BLACK RIFLE Brotherhood CULT. We all need planes, trains and automobiles, and we need them now. JIM ZUMBO knows in his heart felt upgrade brothers.We had to figure out how to put all the pieces together at the other end and boogey woogy the American love fest and the upgraded new JIM ZUMBO.

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from Alex Pohl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

My apologies for the ad hominem venom that I let slip in my previous post. I have a few questions/points to put out there and then I am pretty much through with this matter.The real problem I have with the Zumbo affair is that his (and Mr. Petzal's) detractors are claiming to be defenders of the 2A. The 2A is necessary to protect our liberties. But the most fundamental of liberties was laid out in the 1A. Now, Mr. Zumbo was in the business of opining. Is the whole situation so fragile and perilous, and the skins of those who chafed at Mr. Zumbo's opinions so thin, that the only response is to blacklist him? America is supposed to be a place where we have to tolerate opinions we find obnoxious. The response to his less than discreet remarks on AR's was to declare him a non-person and disregard all that he did well for 40 some years. America is increasingly a country of aggrieved cry-babies who, once offended, call forth the wrath of the gods on the offender. And, may I add, it succeeded so well in this case, not because of high principle, but because Cabelas, Remington and Outdoor Life were worried about money. They knew that what they had on their hands was the fury of an aggrieved, vociferous, and highly organized lobby.Both Mr. Zumbo and Mr. Petzal were/are in the business of writing and opining about hunting guns. F&S and OL were first and foremost about hunting & fishing. There are plenty of other magazines and forums for tactical guns. Neither of them should be run out of town on a rail because of a little dissent or failure to adhere to anybody's reigning orthodoxies. This is not North Korea or Saudi Arabia.As for the 2A, when it was written in the late 1780's, America had virtually no standing army. Police were far and few between; criminals probably got away with crimes more often than not; and Indians were still a menace on the frontier. The prevailing weapon was a cumbersome unrifled musket. Are we really expected to believe that nothing has changed?Many of us have a visceral reaction to AR's and for good reason. The things are meant for one thing only (unlike traditional sporting guns) and that is to kill people. Personally I'd rather see them in the hands of the police and our military than in those of would-be private militia. If I found myself in a crisis situation such as hurricane Katrina with looters menacing my home I could defend it with confidence until the police showed up with my 12 ga. Remington model 1100. When AK-47's are in the hands of anybody who wants them--no questions asked--we have Lebanon, the West Bank, parts of Pakistan, etc. I don't know that this makes a case for outlawing them altogether; but it does warrent a certain scrutiny that tradition sporting guns do not.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Even though I don't hunt any more (hopefully I'll find time to get back into it) I have absolutely nothing against hunters. I never miss an oprotunity to point out to the PETA types I bump into the importance of hunting as a part of overall sound game management and conservation. Most, sadly, don't get it but everyones in a while I'll sway one a little bit. Like I told the one guy a number of posts above when I see someone messing w/ duck hunters about lead shot etc. I get involved because I know the next thing they are coming after is my test range. The only problem I have is with a very small minority amongst the hunting crowd that doesn't see the need for unified defense of the 2A.

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from Dave in St Pete wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Maybe this article will help end the divide between hunters and shooters.http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/phsar_022707/

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from Perry Brakus wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago
from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yet more well thought out points. And ! No "venom", et al. And those with a contrary view point say ?_____Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have a question for the more strident critics of Mr. Petzal and those who think the right to own assault rifles is sacrosanct. Is it admissible to make any kind of distinction between various sorts of "arms?" Why not contrue the term as used in the 2nd Amendment as including RPG's and Stinger anti-aircraft weapons? Why can't I own an RPG and hunt groundhogs with them? Should I be able to own a fully armed tank? If we can outlaw RPG's & Stingers for the general public, we can do the same for assault weapons without being in any way inconsistent and jeopardizing our right to traditional sporting guns. The hysterical tone of the "assault crowd" would seem to indicate that on some level they understand this. I for the life of me do not understand why hunters need to be bullied and intimidated into being in the "same trench" as the assault crowd.Alex1st off you (and I) as American Citezens have no constitutionally garaunteed right what-so-ever to "traditional arms". If you want to take the strictest view possible. All citezens are garanteed the right to keep and bare ARMS wich in the common usage of the times that the constitution was written meant military grade arms Or BETTER. Back then a state of the art military weapon was no better and in some cases quite inferior to civillian weapons. The miliatary was still using smooth bore muskets long after civillians routinely utilized rifled barrels. 2A rights serve two purposes. 1. When everything goes to hell in a handbasket (like in the case of Hurricane Katrina for example) and the government is incapable of providing for our security the local citizens can band together and provide for their own defense against lawlessness anarchy etc. until order can be re-established 2. In the event that the government gets completely out of control the citizens have the means at hand to reclaime control and preserve the principals of liberty and freedom that the nation was founded on in the first place.This amendmant has been systematically eroded over the years. The NRA and other institutions were origionally formed to promote "skill at arms" and have since been forced into the role of protecting the 2a.The reasons people got so rightfully fired up about this are:1. Mr. Petzal and Mr. Zumbo wouldn't have a job to begin with if it wasn't for the defense of the 2A. It's been proven time and time again in many democratic countries that once the tide of regualtion starts to creep guns are banned one or two distictions at a time until there are no guns in the hands of any citizen. There is no rational argument you can mount to dispute this fact. Without the 2A there are no traditional arms.2. Mr. Petzal sold out on this right in 94 in order to take the easy road. The problem is there is no easy road in the defense of the 2A. In the course of doing so he contributed materially not only in weakening the 2A but with the gutting of a portion of his own industry at the expense of many of his peers.3. On the eve of renewed assualt on OUR freedoms and this segment of his own industry Mr. Zumbo margionalized us AGAIN. And gave support to the very people trying to destroy OUR rights. To make it worse Mr. Zumbo enjoyed a lavish lifestyle paid for in no small amount by the people he attacked. His sponsors did the exact right thing in response to the thouroughly justified anger of the tens of thousands of people that responded.4. Mr. Petzar further margionalized 2A supporters by calling them by inference "mental patients" and "chat room hero's" etc. This comming from a man who sold out the 2A and encouraged others to do the same and went on to lead a very prosperous life paid for again in no small part by the very people he turned his back on. When he was called to task on it his response was "you weren't important back the even though I enjoyed shooting an AR-15 but we can't afford to sacrifice you now" "look at me I wrote an article about .50 cal rifles, that makes up for it right?"I've got nothing against "traditional arms". I fly fished as a kid and was an avid field and stream reader. Right up to the point that Mr. Petzar sold out my (and your) 2A rights. I spent my entire adult life in service to this country to protect our rights. Many of my fellow Marines gave their life to this calling. So All of our rights will be protected. I am not predisposed by nature to sit idly by and watch some be enriched by the very community that he betrayed then and be-littles now. I'm sorry if you don't like it but we have a resposiblity to hold our peers to the recognized standards of our community. If you make your living from the firearms community one of those standards is enthusiastic defense of the 2A and it has nothing what so ever to do with "traditional arms".

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from Renny Seymour wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow! What a response. Put me with those that say condeming any firearm is condeming all.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yet another well articiculated response. More of that needed. What else do We. need to do. It seems that no matter how the NRA is looked upon by the individuals of either "group", they appear to be the only organization to have folks from all the interest areas, Can there be others? I say this recognizing that they,NRA have not represented me in the past. But that aside, I feel that they may be "turning the corner" , as a result of many events. _____Wm Stojack

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from Mark wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The Editors need to take a serious look at this fellow Dave, as our so-called friend of gun owners and set him out to pasture. Go Graze somewhere else Dave !!!!!!

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from scott wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yes, hunters and shooters need to realize that we are all in this together and not to turn on each other.However, it is the "hunters" (that are willing to sacrifice other gun-owners - like Petzal and Dumbo) that need to get on our side, not the other way around.For those "hunters" that recognize the issue, you need to support the NRA and other gun rights organizations and you need to very explicity oppose any and ALL restrictions on "assault weapons" and other things like licensing, registration, and one-gun-a-month laws. They are aimed at you too.If the millions of "hunters" and casual shooters that are not members of the NRA were, the NRA would have 40 million members not 4 million and there wouldn't be a single anti-gun law introduced, much less passed, by Congress.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Eric, You seem to be right on the mark! Thats what some folks seem to be doing, (divide & conquor). But then sooner or later most will realize that the majority of the "venom" would come from a sense of frustration on all sides. That combined with a sense of frustration will create a reaction every time. And not usually in a rational manner. Attacks result in reactions. Thats really not the road to any meaningful discussion of the threat that confronts all involved in what I think has been called The Shooting Sports in the past. Maybe the Outdoor Sports is a better term, don't know.______Wm Stojack

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from Eric Alder wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

There's an awful lot of prattle here (as is so often the case with blogs) but every once in awhile you come across a gem.To whit, the well-phrased posting by A.I. Rutledge, who obviously knows how to write (not to mention spell) and makes his points concisely, rather than just spewing venom.(Although I admit enjoying Pat Eddinger's 'commie-pinko-spin-meister' phrase - hilareous!)Divide & Conquor is still the leading strategy of the anti-gunners' campaign."United we stand, divided we fall" is NOT just a platitude.

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from Alex Pohl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dear Rambos of America, perhaps I am ill-informed abouut the legality of your various tactical toys. It seems to me that you would all be happier living in a country like Iraq or Lebanon or Afghanistan where I am sure you would really need armored cars and AK-47's. I also think you'd be happy living in a place where you could issue fatwas against anyone who disagreed with you the way the mullahs of the NRA did to Jim Zumbo. We don't need rational arguments against the Clinton's and Michael Moore; we need body armor and fire power! You all may be on to something. I think I may give up fly-fishing and start using dynamite.

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from Mayster wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Every movement that imploded from within did so by those inside the movement turning on those one step to the left. Absolutist rhetoric (not to mention actions) feeds into public misperceptions. Hello -show me a politician who cares about original intent. Re-election is the golden calf and the "public" is the only way to get there. All 2.5 million of us can get as worked up at each other as we'd like, but I can't imagine that's going to help the other 250 million voters think we're rational or reasonable. Gee, let's publicly crucify Petzal and Zumbo. I'm sure that'll help convince the soccer moms to let us all (hunters and shooters alike) keep our guns. We ceased to be a republic ruled by law long ago. Let's just shoot each other until they come take the guns away - 2nd amendment be damned. THEY really don't care about the constitution and it won't serve as a refuge. It's heading the way of the Electoral College - it's going to be all about the popular vote, and on that note, we're not helping ourselves much here.

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from Jay wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Golly, I can't remember when I became so elitist and devisive as a hunter. It must have snuck up on me. Lucky for me you tactical guys have come up with a clever nickname for us 'Fudds'. My favorite part of deer camp has always been sittin' around the old campfire talking smack about assault rifles. Thanks to you, I've seen the light! Please, leave our blog, but don't forget to do your threat assessment on the way out...

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from Overly Hackled wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have a black Lab, black gun ,black truck, black cat, black ice sled,black gun case ,black knife case,black flashlight ,black crow call,black sun glasses frames, a pair of black pants, a black shirt, a black pair of sox, several black friends, a pair of black shoes,a black pen , black hair , a black hat ,a black t- shirt, a black coat, have black letters on my key board drink black coffee,eat black beans,black molasses and black licorice fish for black bass , hunt black bear, read books with black print, have been black balled and want to have a drink of black velvet whiskey so I can black out and wake up to read about something other than every one beating this black dead horse to death!

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from James H. Black wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I realize the Mr. Zumbo has refuted his statement with regard to "black guns," but that did not stop the Brady Campaign representative from referencing his statement at the Maryland Assault Weapons Ban hearing held by the Maryland Senate Judicial Proceedings Committee yesterday. It was very disheartening.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Very well put Matt. Most of these items are available on the Legal, Govt Regulated market. Thats with the exception of MPADS ( Stinger type systems). The available items are not cheap. And you must have ATF approval before taking possesion. Funny thing, those in that area of interest call the Tax Stamp that is afixed to the orig. paperwork you Must Have, before you can take possesion, a "Duck Stamp ". Wonder where that has it's roots ? Since 1934 when these types of weapons have been Very tightly regulated, there has only be one documented case of Felony misuse. That was a Cop who flipped out & murdered a person with a Registered Weapon. Not a bad record , when the estimated numbers vary from 350k to as high as 475k in circulation. Can't say for sure ,as its Tax Information and Private. So a number of these things ( grenade-launchers, cannons, anti-tank guns, machine-guns, "silencers"-actually refered to as suppresors. They are there ,in licensed , vetted, civie hands. And have been for several Decades. (The Law Enforcement Folks have a lot also,and are part of those numbers), in the States that still believe in the concept of the 2nd Amend. Funny thing, those States seem to believe in the whole package of Amendments. Generally you can say there are 39 of them out of the 50. Pity that al of them don't seem to believe that you you are , what would the Poll. Correct word be ? I'll just use one of my own, how about "Trustworthy " So, they decided that you are not. I Voted with my feet in '71, moved to a place that you are still a "good Guy" ,unless you prove otherwise. And since I've moved here , fought to keep it that way, with my Vote, Wallet, & Support for those Polit.s that feel the same way, Local,and National. Alex, I must thank you again Sir, for the chance to explain some of this for you & others. What a grand thing! ____Wm Stojack

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Alex, glad you brought that up. The Second Amendment was given to us so we (the citizens) would have some means to defend against the oppression of our own government, should the need arise. Therefore, RPGs, Stingers, and other such weapons would be considered protected under the Second Amendment, just as certain rich individuals of the time possessed their own private arsenals. Laws banning RPGs and such, while very easy for the government to defend, do violate both the spirit and letter of the Second Amendment.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Alex, That is a good question. Not having any "tanks" I can't speak to that. But I do have several wheeled armored cars that people have mistakenly called tanks over the years. Ferrets,Saracens, & Saladins. They are former Brit. Military that have been restored over several years. They are Licensed & Insured & Street Legal. Oh, I need to mention that they are all equipped with their correct guns.The gun being: 1919a4 Browning MG, Browning M-2 HB MG. You see Alex, contrary to what you stated these types of "guns" are not "banned" as you would think or have. They are highly regulated & licensed. Sort of like a hunting license that I'm assuming you have. But I don't think that you get finger-printed , or go thru a Full Agency Back Ground Check for your Federal Migratory Bird license. Why , you say? I say , Because I want to! Its legal ! I am in a 2Mill + Metro area & have an agreement with the local Law Enforcement folks that the vehicles are available,hopefully never, "if needed". Hopefully ,this will help aleviate your "fear". And to some extent what I'll refer to as "Lack of Knowledge" on these subjects that you have expressed. I hope I have not given any impression that I'm prone to any form of "Hysteria". So how is it that I form a "threat"to you , or your choice of "Recreation". And yes, I grew up in the Great Outdoors. Hunted most all Game,Fished ,several Fly Ins to Northern Canada, Family Cabin in the woods (80acres). Went on to other things. Those other things still involving firearms. To sum this up . With all due respect Alex, I don't see that you have a full understanding of the issues at hand here. It's All the A's at stake here! If you would take the time to read back throuhg the previous posts, you see that. Its been expressed far better than I can. Lets just say that my intrests do you, or hunting no harm. I asure you I have never shot-up any road signs. You may not like what I enjoy, thats OK. I don't have the time nor the incination to share the camp with you. But I would fight right along side you to prevent you from becoming as regulated as my interests ( EBRs) have.And as Threatened. I Was There in '68 when this started. And you ? Thanks for the chance to explain & enlighten you Alex.______ Wm Stojack

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from Alex Pohl wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I have a question for the more strident critics of Mr. Petzal and those who think the right to own assault rifles is sacrosanct. Is it admissible to make any kind of distinction between various sorts of "arms?" Why not contrue the term as used in the 2nd Amendment as including RPG's and Stinger anti-aircraft weapons? Why can't I own an RPG and hunt groundhogs with them? Should I be able to own a fully armed tank? If we can outlaw RPG's & Stingers for the general public, we can do the same for assault weapons without being in any way inconsistent and jeopardizing our right to traditional sporting guns. The hysterical tone of the "assault crowd" would seem to indicate that on some level they understand this. I for the life of me do not understand why hunters need to be bullied and intimidated into being in the "same trench" as the assault crowd.

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from Allan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Let's be frank. The deep-down, gut-level reason that liberals want to ban guns is that they fear gun owners. They are generally elitists who want to tell the rest of us what to do. That's hard to do when so many of "the rest of us" have those unfortunate weapons. There is some level of oppression at which we will fight back. They don't want us to have the weapons with which to fight when that level arrives.

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from Greg wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Petzal's comments (insults) towards gun owners appear to be disingenuous and condescending. Like Zumbo, he apparently doesn't "get it" that the 2nd amendment is about protecting all of our firearms rights and not just his hunting firearms. Petzal puts on a great show about shooting an AR-15 in a prairie dog town and then admits he doesn't own an AR-15 but an M1A. Could it be that the AR-15 he shot was simply borrowed and he doesn't own one as he implied?Regardless of whether he owns an AR or not, his condescension towards gun owners who are mad at Zumbo is readily apparent as is his lack of comprehension about why we are mad. Like Zumbo, Petzal simply doesn't "get it."

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tired , So it would seem. And Dave is there too! Thanks Again, ___Wm Stojack

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from tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Bill, good to see we can agree.Enjoy the threads around here. The regulars are good guys.Have a good evening.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Tired, I appreciate that. That is a very nice of you. See , we can agree on things after all. The other threads are pretty good. Very informative, I'm sure we can agree on that,right ? And you can call me Bill, OK ? Good. __Wm Stojack

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from Tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Yes, William, thats everything.Have a nice evening.All my best to you and yours.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow, More valid complaints. I'll be around for a while. Right now there is a couple of Good discussions going on on the other threads here. Try them,you might like some of them. And nobody is quite so hostile. As I stated everyone has opinions on a lot of things. Thats everything, right ?___Wm Stojack

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from Tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey William,You've been chastising Dave and anyone else who won't agree with your position for days on this blog and now that someone gives you a bit of grief, you can't handle it.This sir is why most people will not pay any attention to your position. You are like a child who whines when he doesn't get everyone to play the game his way. Perhaps you'd like to take your ball and go home. It would be appreciated.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Well put Matt. Need more comments like that don't ya think ? It would seem to be much more productive than name calling & personal shots. But, I understand the motivation behind it. That is the great part of the free exchange of ideas that the Internet has brought into play. Isn't that the function of BLOGs ? Agree or disagree thats how it has turned out to be. Oh ,then there is censorship. But then thats the Moderators function. Alas, I'm now chastised for a spelling error. But no comment on what the statement was. That would seem to fit the definition of "Troll"as used previously.___Wm Stojack

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from Matt wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I've been sick for a few days so forgive my lateness at getting into this little implosion in the hunting world. First things first. From what I have heard, the particular words Zumbo wrote that got people fried were that those who own what he calls assault rifles would be "lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them", meaning, as if anyone didn't know, Al-Qaeda. There are many, many shooters in this country, including myself, who own what can easily be called assault rifles. True, Sarah Brady and Al Gore seem to reinvent what an assault rifle is and so the term now has little if any meaning, but that’s besides the point. Many Americans enjoy going to the range with an AR or an AK or what-have-you. Because these firearms don’t look old or sleek enough, they have given too many people (including Zumbo) an irrational fear of them bordering on hysteria. Then there is also the little fact that when we talk about hunting and about the Second Amendment, we are talking about two VERY different things, and y’all know it. The Second Amendment was not given to us so we could go out and blast prairie dogs. Zumbo’s comments were beyond stupid for several reasons. First, they show a lack of knowledge about why some of us own these weapons and express the view that anyone who own guns for reasons other than those of the author has somehow erred. Second, they show disunity among the hunting/shooting community. Such disunity is raw feed for the anti-gunners and we need it like we need a hole in the head. Remember when Colorado outlawed in-line muzzle-loaders because a few elitist fossils didn’t consider them sporting enough? If you don’t like them, don’t use them. But for God’s sake, stand up for the right of others to use them! Third and finally, comparing gun owners to terrorists is simply insulting and disgusting. Sarah Brady tried that and hunting magazines tore her limb from limb for it, as they should have. I lost friends and family on 9/11 so I take such comments extremely personally. I do realize that unlike the calculating Brady, Zumbo’s terrorist comment was most likely a slip of the tongue brought on by lack of sleep or a little too much whiskey. But he should have known better. He should have known that after the tooth and nail struggle to defend our rights through eight years of Clinton, we do not have much of a sense of humor over these things. And with the slight chance that Bubba’s bitchoid of a wife will wiggle back into the Oval Office, now is the last time gun owners should be at each other’s throats.What Zumbo said was beyond stupid. However, I believe what he said was said as a mistake and not out of true hatred for owners of “assault weapons”. He has paid a heavy price for it, as well he should. However, lets not go overboard. Lets not crucify him because all that’s going to do is embolden the Sarah Bradys of this world.

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from tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"Origonal"? Apparently skipping your meds has destroyed your reasoning skills and spelling abilities. I would adhere to the schedule William, I really would.Again, Take care and be well, Sir.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Wow, There is a really origonal one. Nothing else to comment on ? Very rational, issue based response! Thank you for making my point for me. _____Wm Stojack

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from tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

No William, it's not an issue.But perhaps you shouldn't be skipping your meds. It's not healthy.Take care and be well.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

No Tired, You think its just me? We don't give up ! Look at this as kind of a "Wake_up" We have been given up in the past "the under the bus" thing. You seem to be the one giving up. Maybe you don't care. I've subscribed to Dave E-Mail service so I can stay tuned in to what he has to say in the event goe's away, or starts blocking folks in the future. Is that an issue? ______Wm Stojack

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from Nelson wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I will be contacting all of your sponsors, and what I have to say will not be nice.

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from Tired wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Give it up Stojack.Dave's ignoring you (thanks dave) and I believe I'll join him.So long.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Michael, Your opinion is noted. I'm glad you can express yours also. This is not the forum to express them ?? You Sir,it would appear are willing to put the "horse" right into the "DogFood Can. So be it ! Then opt off and don't post. That Sir is your option. Have you taken the time to read the posts previous to even the last 100 or so ? If you had you will see that at no time have I asked for Dave to lose his employment with F &S. No, I would like him to come foreward and respond to the question posed here ? Power ? I have the power of one, the same as you. At the Voting Booth ,(Nat & Local) I Sir, have never missed a chance to exercise my franchise of free choice. Altho ,I did Vote absentee ballot in '68 as I was in the Mekong Delta at the time. I freely admit that from my own perspective your "a comment made 14 years ago" seems like "only yesterday" because of the impact it had on My Freedoms. Perhaps it did not impact you as it did me? Humm ? Asking , no make that pleading for a response in a chiding & repetive way is "Hateful" ? And I Sir, have no problems in having my name attached to everyting I care to write.---Wm Stojack____Are you there Dave ?

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from Michael wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I think this horse has been ridden to death. Perhaps we should all stop posting on this blog. That would certainly give Mr. Stojack more space to keep repeating over and over his Hate/Dave inane ramblings that make very little sense. It seems he will not stop until F&S fires Petzal for a comment made 14 years ago. Grow up, sir. If you have that much power, why not use it to get some of the anti-gun politicians removed from office?

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from Visitor wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Interesting comments about Zumbo. It appears that he has a very long way to go to get back in gun owners good graces.I noticed that in one of his apologies he said something to the effect "I have had a revelation."I got a kick out of that comment because it seemed he was setting himelf up as "Moses on the mountain" ready to lead all of us gun owners to the promised land.I think he needs to quit hiding behind Nugents name and fame and get out on some of these other gun boards and face the music.That might go a long way in getting redemption and show that he is serious about his "conversion".So far it seems he is just content to hide behind Nugent and his Blood brothers hoping they can put him back on his gravy train.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Earth to Dave! Do you have a clue Dave? Dave are you there? Dave? Dave, we had a tip from _____ that you had plane reservations to France! Reality to Dave ! We will be here Dave! We'll keep a candle in the window! _______ Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mumbo ZummboI'm not looking down on you bro for anything and if I gave you that impression I appologize. I by no means am trying to slap a dash of holy water on the guys' brow and loudly proclaim "he is healed". He indeed has a long long way to go to dig himself out of his hole. I'm just letting you know I accepted his apology and am in favor of handing him his shovel so he can start digging. If he just goes away the Anti's claim "See those mean EBR guys are Jack Legging the rest of the sportsmen." The guy needs to put back what he's taken out. By mearly closing out his carreer how is he supposed to pay back that debt? Like I said it's up to you to decide when or if ever to forgive him and if you never do I'm cool with that.

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I checked with the president of our local club this evening and he says there is a guy who's a member that can handle these issues for us.Thanks again for your time. I appreciate it and apologize for taking so long to post this response.Ed

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from Brian in Oregon wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

When I see Zumbo as the new spokesman for DPMS, Rock River, or Armalite, THEN I'll accept his "apology". Until then, he can KMA. Apologies don't have weasel clauses in them like "yeah, but". Further, he knows what words are, he uses them professionally. He knew exactly what he wrote, tired or not. The latent anti-gun tendancies came out. He pulled a Mel Gibson on his fellow gunowners, and his "apology" comes up short. Especially when you consider he called fellow gun owners "terrorists". That in no uncertain terms was outrageous. OUTRAGEOUS!As for those of us kicking Zumbo to the curb somehow "dividing" gunowners, sorry, but you better save that for the Fudds that have been doing that for decades now.If there is reconcilement to be made, it better start with the Fudds. And the litmus test is going to be HR1022. We need to see whether the Fudds are going to put their mouths where their NRA membership cards are. And that includes soft-on-the-Second Amendment hunting and fishing magazines.

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from Ol' Johnny wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I'm glad that you chose to open your mouth without thinking, just like your mate zumbo did, the more people like you rear your ugly heads the more true 2nd amendment supporters like myself may continue to relentlessly reprimand you; you and your publication have no right to chastise us for enjoying our right to bear arms or criticize those who dare to label us as "terrorists" soft-minded people like you and zumbo throw judgment around as though it has no meaning. You have no idea what terrorism is, it most certainly is not an American patriot who enjoys and deeply appreciates the freedoms given to us by those who were willing to lay down their lives in the name of freedom for everyone in this great country.

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from Mumbo-Zumbo wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty, If you want to forgive a man for spitting in your face, then that's your choice, don't look down on those of us that won't.I have noticed a disturbing trend in some locations to look upon this "Zumbo affair" as being "over the edge" or "cruel" or even "mean spirited" because this "poor old guy" has "issued" what another "fuddite" would consider "an appology"... but is,in reality, nothing more than an attempt at damage control by mr Zumbo and his elitist writing buddies and a group of fellow fudds.You see; I am a 2nd Amendment Supporter first, a collector of Curio and Relics and other military style firearms second, a shooter third. One thing is that no matter how we place our priorities we all should have the same number one priority: the 2nd Amendment, without it the others matter not.The article posted by Mr Zumbo was not: 1) a precision comparison of bolt action to AR type rifles, 2) a ballistics comparison of various ammo capabilities 3) a dependability comparison based on functionality and number of moving parts. It was in its truest form GUN SNOBBERY and a complete lack of respect for someone else's 2nd amendment rights.I have noticed a disturbing trend in some locations to look upon this "Zumbo affair" as being "over the edge" or "cruel" or even "mean spirited" because this "poor old guy" has "issued" what another "fuddite" would consider "an appology"... but is,in reality, nothing more than an attempt at damage control by mr Zumbo and his elitist writing buddies and a group of fellow fudds.IMO it's all lip service and he's only trying to salvage his gravy train, nothing more.Unless he starts actively supporting the rights of all gun owners and going head-to-head with the Brady Bunch, then it's lip service IMO, and he's only trying to salvage his gravy train, nothing more.I would never, no matter how much I dislike a gun, no matter how much I dislike a certain genre that uses a certain gun, NEVER tell someone that their gun choice does not belong, has no place, and should be banned from forsts and praires.If I were to do this then my choice of gun has no relevance and would be undeserving of ownership as I would have condemned another's choice.And I certainly would never describe a gun with the term "Terrorist". Someone who has been in the NRA for 40 years and as well respected hunter should have known this! For this Jim Zumbo should NEVER be forgiven.Jim Zumbo should never make another dime off his name. He should never write, or publish for that matter, any opinions on firearms or firearms skills.He should never endorse, or be endorsed, by any name or label no matter how big or small. He should never recieve another free promotional item to be tried out or tested.He should just simply fade away only to be rolled out as an example of what true 2nd amendment support is all about.

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from TooTSweet wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

the guys are working on getting stock reports on F&S sponsors.Next week-end we take out those fragile sponsors. The easy one first and then the H bomb baby is coming and I mean hell on earth jr.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Mumbo ZumboSuit yourself bro. The man f***ed up royally and was justly held accountable by the community he serves. I guess you never really screwed the pooch in your life? The man lost alot financially but at his stage of the game if he wasn't prepped for retirement he's wrong. The real punishment by far unless I totally miss my guess is that a quarter of a million people from his own community took time out of their busy shedule to tell him to eat $h!t. I'd rather take a kick in the balls anyday. I make my livleyhood in the EBR industry and have a lot to loose in addition to my 2A rights if the AWB goes back in and I accepted his appology. You said he hasn't done anything to rate your forgiveness which is fine that's something only you can weigh for yourself. But I would submit that if people don't now give him the chance to do anything without kicking him in the teeth how will he be able to redeem himself in anyone's eyes.ON THAT NOTE THE BALL'S IN YOUR COURT NOW MR. PETZAR. I THINK IT'S OBVIOUS HOW THE AVERAGE GUY FEELS ABOUT YOUR WHAT HAPPENED IN '94 I'M JUST ASKING THAT YOU OWN UP TO BEING A PARTY TO THE AWB AND APOLOGIZE FOR THAT AND YOUR ARROGANT CHARACTERIZATION OF THE EBR COMMUNITY. THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE POSTS ABOVE WERE EXPRESSING CENSURE OF YOUR CONDUCT. THE PEOPLE DOING THE YELLING PAY YOUR WAGES WETHER THEY PATRONIZE FS OR NOT. YOU MAY THINK THAT 13 YEARS CONSTITUTES A LONG TIME HARBOR RESENTMENT BUT I SOPPOSE THAT DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU HAD A PROSPEROUS 13 YEARS OR YOU SPENT THE TIME CLAWING AND SCRATCHING TRYING TO KEEP YOUR COMMUNITY AFLOAT WATCH A FEW GO UNDER THE WAVES IN THE PROCESS. NICE THING ABOUT ADVERSITY THOUGH. IT MAKES YOU LEAN IT MAKES YOU STRONG AND IT MAKES YOU VIGILANT.WHAT SAY YOU MR. PETZAR?

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from Esq. wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

"Al Gore’s mansion, located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric Service (NES). . . . The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWh—more than 20 times the national average. Last August alone, Gore burned through 22,619 kWh—guzzling more than twice the electricity in one month than an average American family uses in an entire year. As a result of his energy consumption, Gore’s average monthly electric bill topped $1,359."We don't know how much Zumbo's bill is yet.We do have a guy that claims he had a homosexual affair with petzal back in 1983.But thats another blog.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

WHO EVER RUNS THIS BOARDPlease tag me too. From your persective this avalanche was an accident waiting to happen. One thing you may want to consider is you had 1500 or so hits from fellow 2A folks that were a tad bit vexed at you. There was some strong language traded but nobody did anything but vent their frustration. If you don't hook your site up a little the next "blogstorm" could be a couple of colledge kids with the anti mentality and the knowledge to do some real nasty $h!t to your server and the first thing you know about it is people are calling you on the land line asking why they're getting a gay porn reveiw when they log on and you can't figure how to make it stop. Then you got kids that cruze around looking for sites w/ weak security and just wreck em kinda like cyber-vandals. At least you have a rudimentary defense against a "many hits" attack. But a few simple protocal steps like automatic IP logging and sign in procedures help allot. Any how good luck. Please do the right thing and be responsible for your staff writers.

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from Mumbo-Zumbo wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Zumbo hasn't done anything yet to deserve my forgiveness, nor was he my favorite hunting writer.In fact, I dislike all hunting writing. It's a waste (IMHO, of course) of paper and ink. If I want to look at photos of dead animals, I'll go to the news stand and buy a copy of Dead Animal Monthly. I buy gun magazines to read about and look at pictures of guns, not dead animals.That whole premise that you can deliberately insult someone, say you "are sorry" and then become the "victim" when the aggrieved party does not accept your "less than abject" or "not quite heartfelt appology" is typically liberal.Anyone that defines a gunowner as a terrorist deserves to rot in literary limbo for a lot longer than Mr. Zumbo has left to live on this planet.

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Sooo, Dave, did you survive the storm? I honestly hope so, and I honestly hope that people will decide to let Zumbo back in the circle, with a renewed understanding and appreciation & vigor for the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment. At least Zumbo apologized a few times, from the heart. C'mon, people, give at least Zumbo another chance if he proves himself!

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed,Tag me at that address so I can send you my regular contact info for your range folks. That address is a throw away and I'll dump it as soon as I fwd my regular info. As you have seen this is an Unsecure Page so I'm not going to link my regular digits to it.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from Patriot wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Amendment II"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Thats excellent ,see all the "GOOD" that Can be acomplished working Together! Thats what this site can do, if you put aside the crap. We are in this together! It won't make any difference if we all don't try to take the first gesture. Come on down. Bring facts, not feelings. Dave , Did you see that? We are getting along pretty good on our own! Dave ,are you there Dave ? Wm Stojack

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from John wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Aaaahh...have we finally vented enough? Now, let's get on to the important Next Steps.1) JOIN THE NRA!! JOIN THE NRA!! JOIN THE NRA!! JOIN THE NRA!!2) Write your Congressman / Woman about Opposing HR 1022!! It only takes a couple of minutes!!This site will allow you to easily find your Congressman/woman:http://www.govtrack.us/And here is a sample letter you can use, I posted the reference earlier, but now revised a little:Please OPPOSE H.R. 1022Dear Congressman/woman [Insert name]:I am a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen, a voter, and a firearms owner. I implore you, as my representative in Washington, to uphold not only the letter, but also the spirit of the Second Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms is essential to our continued freedom, both as a nation and as a people.If you are at all familiar with firearms, then you will know that the new ban that is being proposed (H.R. 1022) is absolutely & completely without merit. As in the previous failed ban, the restrictions are entirely cosmetic, and will in no way stop the use of weapons of any kind among the criminal element. This ban would restrict the free exercise of law abiding citizens’ rights simply because of the fear and ignorance of a vocal minority.Gun bans only hinder law-abiding citizens, not criminals.You have an opportunity to stand up for the rights of your constituents, the people who voted for you. I urge you, please do not let fear and ignorance sway your decision. There are far more supporters of firearms rights (and the right to own your choice of firearms) than those opposed. We, as responsible firearms owners, do not deserve to be told that our exercise of our rights is immoral or terroristic simply because of the appearance of our chosen firearms.You swore to uphold the 2nd Amendment with the oath you took on January 4th, 2007:“I, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”Please no not break your oath by allowing H.R. 1022 to pass.I, and millions of others, are watching your action on this matter, and our votes for you in any future elections hinge on your support for the Second Amendment.Sincerely,[Insert name & contact info]Proud AmericanProud Firearms OwnerNRA MemberDucks Unlimited MemberMember of Local Gun Club/Firing RangeSoon to be member of (because of this newly proposed ban):www.AR15.com

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I'll check with the guys @ the range. I've kept your email address and will have the president of our range send you an email if we need the help.Thanks so very much for taking your time to offer. You sir, are a gentleman.Ed.

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed tag me on this e-mail. I don't know how computer savy you are so I'm not trying to be insulting but just click on the "posted by: Krusty0369" at the bottom stamp of this post and you'll be linked to a throw away email account. Guns-Up!Krusty

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed,Give me a while to make a throw away email account. I'll post it later send me an email at that account and I'll get in touch w/ you direct. I've got a friend who's an environmental chemist AND gun friendly (go figure) I don't know if she'd be able to do an onsite but she'd probably be able to give you some sound advice if nothing else.Who Ever Runs This BoardListen to Mysterio he knows what he's talking about. If you had controls and mods you'd have been able to enforce discipline around here. Go talk to the Aviles Brothers at AR-15.com I'm sure they would be able to give you some good advice on how to set up a board so you can have some control. At that point how hard you want steer the conversation is up to you and your mods.Guns-Up!Krusty

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hi Troll !Bye Troll! Wm Stojack

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Dave, Are you there Dave (Old movie dialogue), Hal, I'm here. Are you here to shut me down Dave? No Hal! Dave, are you anywhere?___Wm Stojack

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,I'm in the great state of Indiana.Home of slug guns, muzzleloaders and the Indianapolis 500(not necessarily in that order).

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ed, I'm sorry. What I should have said is that your election results are correct. But I think they are not a blanket numbel for our interest groups. I do beleve that over all ours "Gun Folks", for lack of a better term. Are much higher than the general population. Not as good as they should be, but higher. We need to work on this, or we fail overall.Contrary to what on the surface may seem devisive dialog. It is becoming more apparent every day with the Mass Media that WE Are Becoming A Force to Be Concerned With! As so often in the real world it took "blood on the deck" before they took note. A event that took our elected reps by surprise. They are just starting to realize the power of organization that is ours in the modern age. Is this the signal to take a time out? Not for many. Do you really think that those of use that are present here on these pages sit around on our asses & monitor the internet as our sole interests & it's our form of fun? _____ Hope this clears up my comment for you, Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tom,Anytime brother.Ed,Your right on the expense part. I'm not talking about duplicating their testing but even having a pro on deck to observe the process and cry foul isn't cheap. What part of the country are you in?Guns-Up!Krusty

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from mysterio wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I've been looking through thesepost over the last day or so and it seems like (for the most part) the same half dozen people are posting. I think the duration is over for most of these guys. They have vented and gone onto something else.Oh... you didn't get the memo? Were the ones who've been detailed to hang around and see what action is eventually taken in this matter. It's really boring trying to sit and watch a blog page when the editors have put a gag order on the main guy so ya gotta post something once and while to keep from falling asleep. There are still some sights where this matter is seriously churning and burning. While you're out there take a good look at how those sights are set up. If you guys had an administrator, a moderator or two and all the technical controls of a real post board you could of shut this little rant session down any time you wanted to. It would have cost you a little more per month but then again you would still have control of your board without having to result to just pulling the plug and leaving it off for a month. We honestly like you guys so just think of this as an educational process. Of course you could just pull the plug or do the right thing and take responsibility for your content.

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from Tom Mix wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago
from Tom wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Krusty,Thanks for the suggestions on the range thing. I'll get with the board at our next meeting.

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

William,You lost me on your response to my post, sir.Krusty,Most ranges can't afford the amount of third party testing that you speak of. The EPA is backing this (according to the people who run my range) and making the environmentalists job a whole lot easier than it should be. You and I can agree to diagree on the lead issue, every year I see more and more lead subsitutes and I see lead being banned sooner rather than later.

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from Tom Mix wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

The failure of the media elites of the world to show these Anti-gun disciples in true light is important. Only by understanding their deeper motivations can future generations comprehend the ultimate failure of gun control policy and there architects.They tell us that we have the right to self-defense never really meaning it.They're willing to be attacked and called, in some form or fashion, "TRAITOR" in order to advocate policies that are good for the country.In the end, that's what liberalism versus conservatism all comes down to sappy, feel good emotionalism that sounds appealing, but doesn't work versus doing things the right way, even when it's not easy.Anti-gun liberals seldom do consider the long-term consequences of their feel good policies.It takes a lot more integrity, character, and courage to be a conservative than it does to be a liberal. That's because at its most basic level, liberalism is nothing more than childlike emotionalism applied to adult issues. Going to war is mean, so we shouldn't do it. That person is poor and it would be nice to give him money, so the government should do it. Somebody wants to have an abortion, have a gay marriage, or wants to come into the U.S. illegally and it would be mean to say, "no," so we should let them. I am nice because I care about global warming! Those people want to kill us? But, don't they know we're nice? If they did, they would like us! WE HAVE TO PUT THE IRON BOOT TO THESE TRAITORS MY FELLOW GUNNERS!!! WE DON"T NEED OR WANT ANYMORE - "Michael Moore compares Iraqi insurgents who kill Americans to the Minutemen of Revolutionary New England." WAKE UP PEOPLE AND LETS GO TO WAR! WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE SOMETIME,WHY NOT DIE HERE AT HOME AND FREE OURSELVE'S FROM THESE TRAITORS!!!! ANY OF YOU MEN LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY? WASHINGTON TRAITORS MUST GO!How man VICHY GOT SHOT IN THE BACK FIRING ON COUNTRYMEN?

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I read in a previous post that the NRA has only 4 million members. I've read that there are 80-100 million gun owners in this country. If the above data is correct, the NRA has only managed to recruit 4 to 5 percent of us.Someone needs to be looking @ their marketing strategy a little better, don't you think?

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

That is a very incisive & fact filled comment Ed. And your version of normal is ?Might it be without being able to express our displeasure with a Public Figure? That seems just a little over the top. Come on in, you & Dave can explain how we "Just Don't Understand, The Real Truth". Right Dave ? Dave ,are you there? ___Wm Stojack Oh Dave, I signed up to your E-Mail service too!

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Tom,You have a huge point there! It's one of the things that have made the BRAC proccess so screwed up. Who's going to pay for the cost of cleaning up the firing ranges when they close a base down. This is going to bite us in the ass in about 5 or 6 years. No easy solution but if you have the granola munching togo sandle wearing crowd trying to close your range down here are some tactics.1. Demand that they test and prove that there is a leeching condition going on.2. Make sure sample wells go down to the water table.3. The good news is Lead contamination from range accumilation is a red herring in most soil types.4. The bad news is that the people doing the testing for the state will likely be granola munching togo sandle wearing hippies with degrees. So depending on how bad you want to keep your range open hire some 3rd party experts to verify their methods.The overall problem facing partcularly water fowlers and other shotgunners and public land shooters is going to be tougher. Talk to the ammunition companies and ask them how you can get involved for a start. Trust me I haven't killed an animal with a gun in a long time (maybe I'll get back to doing some hunting but just to damn busy now) but I follow an vote my consience when I hear of people trying to f--k with duck hunters 'cause it means that there comin for my range facilty next.As for the free perc stuff your right. It's the way any industry works. All I'm saying is if'n your loving life and living large spare a thought for how you got there in the first place. It's counter intuitive to expect to get a completely unbiased eval from a comercial print magazine. The best of the writers out there at least get around the issue somewhat by only doing reviews of top quality products. That's why internet firearms boards are so popular. EBR guys (sorry who ever didn't like the term but since we got branded with it we kinda take a perverse pride in it)are amazingly quality consious so instead of buying a magazine I'd go online and say "hey I'm thinking of buy an ACME gun. Who's got one and what do you think?" that way you'll at least get the opinion of a real consumer who'd be more inclined to say "dude, bought one, it sucked, sold it at a gun show for 1/4 the purchase price".

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from Ed wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

We ,Have Been There,Done That, Got the T-Shirt,And Signed Up for the Duration! Is this too tough to understand? ____Wm StojackI've been looking through thesepost over the last day or so and it seems like (for the most part) the same half dozen people are posting. I think the duration is over for most of these guys. They have vented and gone onto something else.The U.S. population tends to lose focus and forget pretty easily.Maybe that's why Bill Clinton got elected twice, same with George Bush.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Great Comment! Thats looking foreward. Its what we ALL need to do. Each battle is just a part of the War! As we become United (hopefully) we can fight on many fronts at the same time. The time is now, there may not be a "Next-Season". We ,Have Been There,Done That, Got the T-Shirt,And Signed Up for the Duration! Is this too tough to understand? ____Wm Stojack

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from jh45gun wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

What Petzel and Zumbo do not get is they say the AR's and AK's and I would bet they put the SKS in the same group do not belong in the hunting fields. Why because it is a military arm???? If that is the case if I had a NICKLE for every past military gun used for hunting I would be rich. Every Garand, M14 and M1 that was used in this country for hunting I would have a good chunk of change. Then if we added the sporterized 03 and 03A Springfields, 1917 Enfields, Krags, and Trapdoor Springfields I would really be rich. Then if we added all the various Mausers,Mosin Nagants,Arisakas,Krags, Enfields, The Swiss and Canadian Straight pull rifles and the French riflea and any other imported milsurp rifle I have missed that has been used for hunting or sporterized in the past the numbers would be staggering so why should they pick on the modern milsurps when this country has a rich past of using milsurps for hunting. It was brought up in a earlier post that a 100 years ago was the last time the military and the civilian used the same rifles for war and hunting. I disagree as gunsmiths and the guy who likes to tinker have been using and modifying military arms (milsurps) from the Revolutionary war to now for hunting so why pick on the modern day military rifles. Pretty stupid considering some one put a name "assault" to a gun that makes it 'evil to some yet it is no different than any other military gun from the past. Milsurps have been taking game ever since there have been milsurps. Maybe Zumbo and Petzal should have looked back at history before shooting off their mouths.

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from jh45gun wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

What Petzel and Zumbo do not get is they say the AR's and AK's and I would bet they put the SKS in the same group do not belong in the hunting fields. Why because it is a military arm???? If that is the case if I had a NICKLE for every past military gun used for hunting I would be rich. Every Garand, M14 and M1 that was used in this country for hunting I would have a good chunk of change. Then if we added the sporterized 03 and 03A Springfields, 1917 Enfields, Krags, and Trapdoor Springfields I would really be rich. Then if we added all the various Mausers,Mosin Nagants,Arisakas,Krags, Enfields, The Swiss and Canadian Straight pull rifles and the French riflea and any other imported milsurp rifle I have missed that has been used for hunting or sporterized in the past the numbers would be staggering so why should they pick on the modern milsurps when this country has a rich past of using milsurps for hunting. It was brought up in a earlier post that a 100 years ago was the last time the military and the civilian used the same rifles for war and hunting. I disagree as gunsmiths and the guy who likes to tinker have been using and modifying military arms (milsurps) from the Revolutionary war to now for hunting so why pick on the modern day military rifles. Pretty stupid considering some one put a name "assault" to a gun that makes it 'evil to some yet it is no different than any other military gun from the past. Milsurps have been taking game ever since there have been milsurps. Maybe Zumbo and Petzal should have looked back at history before shooting off their mouths.

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from Dan wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To Michael,it's sarcasm, I surely know their is nothing evil about them I have one as well as several AK's.How's this for you"EBR"!

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from Tom wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

I keep hearing talk about the free hunts and fancy gear that Petzal and Zumbo receive. Don't you think the boys @ the NRA receive the same type of perks.It's the way the industry works.Here's a point of view I've not seen addressed. While everyones been screaming about the 2a and calling each other names, noone has addressed other real concerns gun owners will be facing.Gun usage. The second is the most important thing to protect but the anti's and environmentalists are coming after gun owners through the back door. Zoning changes, noise ordinances and lead contanmination in soil are just three ways that target ranges, skeet, trap, sporting clays and hunting are all being attacked.A lead ban on ALL ammo is going to be a reality sooner rather than later. The cost of any non-lead ammo is super expensive and will severly limit the amount of shooting done anywhere. If a box shells cost 5 times as much as it used to most people can't afford to shoot much.Trying to take down the 2nd amendment has proven to be tough for the anit's. These environmental items will be much easier to put into place and have a far reaching effect on all shooters.

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from William Stojack wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Ah the sweet sound of the oft tossed about phrase "Divide & Conquer". Think about that, First half "Divide" was well done in '68. Yes, I WAS THERE ! Never again ! Think the rift did not start then? Conquer, Not quite so easy in the Net Age. And WE have the Numbers! We made it to where we are today (only took us 40yrs)And the "Hunting-Elitists" are now in the Minority. Check the stats ! Its only numbers. And you honestly can't understand the feelings involved? This is Close Quarters Combat ! We are all going to have casualities. Thats just the nature of warfare. The stongest,the biggest, the best may be among the losses. You can turn tail & run, or get over it ! If you think that ANY, repeat ANY individuals career is to high a price to pay in the Battle to Maintain the Little that has been left for My Grand-Children to cherish and Treasure when I'm gone! You better think over your on set of values son! Ain't no Fair-Chase rules here so might as well quit lookin' & snivelin' In this fight there will always be another hill to take, and hold! A lot of "hunters" self proclamed in '68, the Brady,and in'94. "Don't bother-me-none", Yea, I WAS THERE ! Can't tell you HOW many times I heard it! Times have changed. I think you are now in what is called "Culture-Shock". Treat it, get help. Got out from In Front Of The Bus ! Its moving faster! ____ Thanks for taking the time to read the Whole Blog! So you know whats been said already, _______Wm Stojack

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from Krusty0369 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Folks this is a real narrow format screen layout. No offense to FS but they ussually don't handle anything approaching this amount of traffic. Might I humbly suggest posting a link to gynormous documents along with your commentary?Guns-Up!Krusty

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from deerhunter270 wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

Hey Petzal, are you a co=sponser of this one too?Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take long)House.gov ^ | 12/13/2007 | Mrs. MCCARTHY of New YorkPosted on 02/20/2007 5:58:18 AM PST by xmissionA BILL To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007'.SEC. 2. REINSTATEMENT FOR 10 YEARS OF REPEALED CRIMINAL PROVISIONS RELATING TO ASSAULT WEAPONS AND LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.(a) Reinstatement of Provisions Wholly Repealed- Paragraphs (30) and (31) of section 921(a), subsections (v) and (w) and Appendix A of section 922, and the last 2 sentences of section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as in effect just before the repeal made by section 110105(2) of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, are hereby enacted into law.(b) Reinstatement of Provisions Partially Repealed- Section 924 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--(1) in subsection (a)(1), by striking subparagraph (B) and inserting the following:`(B) knowingly violates subsection (a)(4), (f), (k), (r), (v), or (w) of section 922;'; and(2) in subsection (c)(1)(B), by striking clause (i) and inserting the following:`(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or'.SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.(a) In General- Section 921(a)(30) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended to read as follows:`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;`(ii) AR-10;`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;`(iv) AR70;`(v) Calico Liberty;`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;`(xi) M1 Carbine;`(xii) Saiga;`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;`(xv) SLG 95;`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;`(xvii) Steyr AUG;`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;`(xix) Tavor;`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).`(B) The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof:`(i) Calico M-110;`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or`(v) Uzi.`(C) The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof:`(i) Armscor 30 BG;`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;`(iii) Striker 12; or`(iv) Streetsweeper.`(D) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;`(ii) a threaded barrel;`(iii) a pistol grip;`(iv) a forward grip; or`(v) a barrel shroud.`(E)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), a semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.`(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.`(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--`(i) a second pistol grip;`(ii) a threaded barrel;`(iii) a barrel shroud; or`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;`(ii) a pistol grip;`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.`(I) A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.`(J) A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).`(K) A conversion kit.`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.(b) Related Definitions- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:`(36) Barrel Shroud- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.`(37) Conversion Kit- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon, and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.`(38) Detachable Magazine- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.`(39) Fixed Magazine- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.`(40) Folding or Telescoping Stock- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.`(41) Forward Grip- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.`(42) Pistol Grip- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.`(43) Threaded Barrel- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.SEC. 4. GRANDFATHER PROVISION.Section 922(v)(2) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--(1) by inserting `(A)' after `(2)'; and(2) by adding after and below the end the following:`(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.SEC. 5. REPEAL OF CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS.Section 922(v)(3) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `(3)' and all that follows through the 1st sentence and inserting the following:`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or`(C) is an antique firearm.'.SEC. 6. REQUIRING BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR THE TRANSFER OF LAWFULLY POSSESSED SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.Section 922(v) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:`(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1) does not apply, except through--`(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of subsection (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon shall be considered to be transferred from the business inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer shall be considered to be the transferor; or`(B) a State or local law enforcement agency if the transfer is made in accordance with the procedures provided for in subsection (t) of this section and section 923(g).`(6) The Attorney General shall establish and maintain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model, and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic assault weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State law, and the nature and circumstances of the crime involved, including the outcome of relevant criminal investigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall annually submit the record to the Congress and make the record available to the general public.'.SEC. 7. STRENGTHENING THE BAN ON THE POSSESSION OR TRANSFER OF A LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.(a) Ban on Transfer of Semiautomatic Assault Weapon With Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device-(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (y) the following:`(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:`(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.'.(b) Certification Requirement-(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922(w) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--(A) in paragraph (3)--(i) by adding `or' at the end of subparagraph (B); and(ii) by striking subparagraph (C) and redesignating subparagraph (D) as subparagraph (C); and(B) by striking paragraph (4) and inserting the following:`(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large capacity ammunition feeding device that was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before the end of the 60-day period that begins with the date of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, that the device was manufactured on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.'.(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of such title, as amended by subsection (a)(2) of this section, is amended by adding at the end the following:`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.SEC. 8. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--(1) in paragraph (1)--(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and(B) by adding at the end the following:`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'; and(2) in paragraph (2)--(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and(B) by adding at the end the following:`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon; or`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.SEC. 9. BAN ON IMPORTATION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE.(a) In General- Section 922(w) of title 18, United States Code, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended--(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2)' and inserting `(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B)';(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `(2) Paragraph (1)' and inserting `(B) Subparagraph (A)'; and(3) by inserting before paragraph (3) the following:`(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.(b) Conforming Amendment- Section 921(a)(31)(A) of such title, as added by section 2(a) of this Act, is amended by striking `manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994'.

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from Michael wrote 7 years 7 weeks ago

To: Dan (2/26/07)Dan, I firmly believe that if we lose our 2nd amendment rights we have just lost all our other rights under the constitution. I believe you have the right to own any firearm you wish as long as you ownership of it is legal.I do wish you would stop referring to your choice of weapons as EBR's (evil black rifles) When you do this, you are giving anti's more ammunition for their inane arguments. I am not a "bubba", "fudd" or any other label. I, as a public school teacher, cannot afford to own all the firearms I would like to have. (believe me, I would have them all!) Therefore I mostly own, buy, swap, etc. sporting armsbecause that is my prefernce. Blued steel and walnut cat