One thing I forgot to mention:
If you've got a "long Range" Cartridge, it doesn't mean you should shoot at long range on animals. Don't buy a giant rifle, powerful scope, and rangefinder and head for the field, put the time in and practice and only shoot to as far as you know you can. Don't hold over an animal (coughsneezeclaysniff) dial your scope directly for elevation and windage corrections before you shoot for every shot, and only take the shot if it will be a suprise/shock to you that you missed.

four-wheelin,

Like I said this question has some of the components as your previous question. You are 2 for 2 in asking questions that stir the.....um, you know what I mean.

And in no way am I down on you for asking the question. Looks to me like it needs to be asked and hashed out. AGAIN.

Four-wheelin, you are going to have to use your judgment to decide who is really on your side. What I mean by that is there are folks here, myself included, that are going to give you an answer you won't like sometimes, maybe a lot of the time. But know that if someone gives a forceful answer it's because they are passionate about the circumstances. Not because they think you are dumb. They have been there, done that, and probably can save you some headache & heartache you might otherwise go through. I look up to the advice of some of these folks and I have learned a hell of a lot. My 2 cents.

S GA

7mm Weatherby Magnum or .300 Weatherby or faster equivalent and lots of practice at shooting at MOP targets at that range....in the wind.

And don't believe all the long range tales you hear. Verrify your range with a rangefinder and learn how to dope the wind. A guy I hunted with last week missed a mule deer 5 TIMES at 505 yards before finally hitting him (bang flop). In the 15-20 mph crosswind he needed 22-25 inches of correction with what he was shooting. When I asked him how much did he dope the wind, he answered, "Oh, I forgot about that." to which I replied, "How much do you think you should have applied". He had no clue.

Retards??!! I dont think you know what it takes to make a shot at that range or why you would even want to. Its not the cal but the energy it creates at that range you need to look at. So go get yourself a 338.378 and shoot a 200 grain or 250 grain bullet and after it kicks you all over the range from practicing 4 days a week because thats what its going to take then you can tell us how great your new long range cannon worked on the biggest deer you shot at 250 yards.

Not the arrow,

It's the Indian!

MntHunter I agree a 7mm WBY with a good 160 in it like a Partion or Barnes will do the trick, just remember the farther you shoot it its that much farther you have to pack it out. Oh yea thats also a ways ou there to be shootin I would say practice alot and then keep your shots at the 500 mark.

fishfearmeis

Your absolutely right, 308 like the 30-06 and 308 I have out shot 300 Win Mags on the 1000 yard line topped with extraterrestrial telescopes with an open sighted M1 Garand and M1A!

Sure is fun shooting 45-70 trap door out in areas like New Mexico at rocks and bushes at 1000 yards pluss. Gun goes bang, you lower the rifle and a second or two later watch the bullet hit launching a yard of dust into the air!

For me it’s Hands down my 338 Win Mag with Hornady 225 grain thumping out at 3000 fps. For the average shooter and my Second choice is the 30-06 with 180’s over a 7mm Rem Mag any day! If you’re going to shoot a Magnum Cartridge, shoot a Magnum Caliber and leave the 30 cal Mags at home. If you’re going to get kicked like a mule, then shoot a bullet that gives better performance down range!

BigBboy25

I've done more than home work, I recovered a many of bullets out of Caribou and Moose at those distances.

Don't say it cannot be done and get in the way of those who are actually doing it!

On my desk, I have a 338 225 grain recovered from one of the Caribou I shot at 650 and still turned the meat into hamburger, the ribs were so blood shot they were uneatable and the diameter of the mushroom portion is a good 5/8 in diameter.

I tell'ya, armchair know it all are something else!

Check my Pics, I have a picture of it

i love to shoot long rang shoots at the range but dam 800 yards . i no hunting i have not the amount of skill that would take iv only seen very few who do growing up on military base and they shoot every day talk to clay copper he was on a air force shooting team i think. he could help you out for the right rifle for range shooting he helped me on the best load for my 25-06 shooting at 500 yard on the range and his info was rite on the money . helped me alot

I'm not a long range shooter but from what I hear a 7mm mag is a favorite.

Remamber though it's not only caliber. You also need to see your target so a proper scope is also crucial.

My brother in law does long range shooting as a hobby and has a Tikka T3 Tactical 308. He took a 600 yard shot and hit a shoe box. His rifle was at a 45 degree angle.

Please take a look at the Barnes Reloading Manual #3 for a comparison of the .300 Dakota and the RUM. The Dakota is a hair slower but not much. For example a 165g Dak goes up to 3400 fps while a RUM goes up to 3480 but normal loads are about the same. As you step through loads and bullet sizes they cross over with one being a little faster in some and a little slower in others. You are also right sqaredneck. It is tough to find 1,000 yards of clear space and high winds in Georgia. I shoot at the 600 yard range at River Bend and then do the high wind 1,000 yard testing in South Dakota. I have caught two good wind days there. One day the wind was a nice consistent 50mph and the other it was gusting 40-50MPH. I'm not perfect at it yet but I found that widage was much more predictable than I had expected as long as I read the wind speed correctly. You just need a lot of lead at 50 mph but the tables are right. As for treestand's coke truck... well, I won't be shooting any deer at 1,000 yards if I can't nail that Coke can... it is sure harder with high velocity winds and I may just not be able to take those shots... still working on them though. My biggest problem seems to be judging the wind without a wind speed meter. I'll probably have to get one or pass on those shots. I hope to get back to South Dakota in a couple of weeks and try some more. I have no doubts about the Coke truck though... I am hoping to be at pie plate levels on the next try if I can catch some wind.

BigBoy25,

I too have been contemplating something 338. I have been looking at a 338-375 Ruger wildcat, since I just acquired a LH long Savage action a couple of days ago. I already have the .375 Ruger, so I have brass. It wouldn't be as quite as hot as what you have in mind.

I shot a friend's 338 Lapua (suppressed)a couple of weeks ago and had too good a time shooting it. Gave me a case of the "I wannas"........

Clay said: "If you’re going to shoot a Magnum Cartridge, shoot a Magnum Caliber and leave the 30 cal Mags at home."

200 Grain Nosler accubond 3050fps out of a .300 win mag vs. 225 Grain hornady 3000fps out of a .338 win mag

.300 Win Mag:
300yds
-Velocity:2643fps
-energy:3101ft/lbs
600yds
-Velocity:2272fps
-energy:2293ft/lbs
1000yds
-Velocity:1872fps
-energy:1482ft/lbs

.338 win mag:
300yds
-Velocity:2417fps
-Energy:2918ft/lbs
600yds
-velocity:1907fps
-Energy:1817ft/lbs
1000yds
-velocity:1345fps
-Energy:905ft/lbs

Hmmm maybe it's just me but looks like that .30 caliber outperforms the .338. The bullet clay is using has a minimum expansion velocity of 1800fps(as does the nosler I use) but he hits 1800fps at about 600 yards and me at about 1000, and I have more energy at long ranges. Clay hasn't done his homework seems to me

Clay

Good job at recovering a few bullets, but I don't see your relavancy in bringing this up. I've heard the stories of your long shots, I know you can do it. But your method is all wrong. You boast at your "kentucky windage" skills, and that is unethical in my opinion, you're just guessing, no "if's, and's or but's" about it. I shoot long range as well, I shot a bull this year at 590, a bear at 643, and a coyote at 540 all with one shot. I'm nowhere near the best shot in the county, but I have the equipment and skills necissary to make those shots. Also each one of those shots, I placed the croshairs where I wanted the bullet to impact and squeezed it off, no guessing. When I said you didn't do your homework, I was refering to the fact that you said a .338 win mag was better for long range than a .300 win. mag. when it's not, not with the bullet you're using. I'm not trying to say the .338 is a bad round, it's not. But it's not the best in my eyes. Look at the math, it all is opposite of what you said. But if it works for you great, I am just trying to give everybody the information I know and use, which was exactly what you were doing.

I'm a little reluctant to join in this thread as some seem to be anxious to pounce on someone offering their point of view. I will go ahead however because I think it is an interesting question and one I have invested in just in case my experience to date can help someone.

I have built a rifle for long range shooting and have been experimenting with it for about two years. After all the research and mulling over most of the calibers mentioned above, I chose to build my rifle on a .300 Dakota cartrige. Although many cartriges are very close at 1,000 yards (especially the .338 Dakota through the .338 Lapua), I chose the .300 Dak because it had the lowest recoil among those big cartriges (including .300 Win). Its ballistics are similar to the .300 RUM with much less recoil caused by the "short/fat". I felt I could easily shoot a few thousand rounds through it practicing and that it was mild enough to avoid a flinch or a jerk when I was taking the actual shot. I have found the recoil about like an eight pound 30-06 in my 12 pound rifle. I personally believe that in long range shooting, the fear of recoil is what spoils the shot about 75% of the time.

To shoot 1,000 yards, I started with a very good barrel and a very well aligned chamber. I got it professionally bedded with a good trigger and started with loads shooting under .1 inch at 100 yards. I shoot 210g Bergers and they have been performing very well. I especially love to shoot in big winds and verify the dope tables. So far, crossing 40-50 mph winds is the highest for me but I find the tables to be very accurate. The drop and windage is very predictable. I am still not deer hunting with mine this year as I had hoped. Just haven't had enough practice time to get comfortable adjusting my turrets for the exact distance/windage as conditions change. At times, it is still taking taking me one shot to dial exactly in to the target from my normal 200 yard zero (I use the rifle for short range shooting too). I am debating on moving to a mill dot cross hair with an an established 1,000 yard dot setting. It is just taking me too long to adjust and I am not always right on. I won't shoot until I can consistently hit that coke can at 1,000 yds with a 40 mph cross wind. I could use holdover but find I am not as accurate that way after about 600 yards. The .300 Dak has plenty of energy to knock an elk dead at 1,000 yards and beyond. I like the energy of the .338 at that range too but just can't take the recoil. I believe that for starters, your rifle must be exceptionlly accurate to consider hunting at that range or you don't have a chance. Secondly, the hunter must be exceptionally practiced or it is crap shoot. When I get it all dialed in, I expect that my first hit will be as exillerating as my first bow hit. I am still working on it! It has been fun getting ready.

I have a 1/2" thick x 6 inches round steel 'plate' with a loop of log chain welded to the back. It hangs from a loop of rebar so the target 'plate' is about 30" off the ground. This is set up in the back of the field next to my house so that when I sit at my bench, it's roughly a 500 yard shot give or take a few feet. I shoot that with the my 7 mag, my 270WSM, my Encore 22-250, and the Rock River Varmint AR in my avatar. I can hit it pretty consistently with all of them. When get to where I can shoot freehand and ring it 3 for 3, I'll consider myself a good enough shot to be taking hunting shots at that distance. I am not there.

I am shooting E to W, so I almost always have a gulf wind quartering out of the SSW at 5-15 mph. Reading a variable wind is a bigger deal than holding and hitting it. I guess this qualifies as 'minute of pot-pie plate'.

Dakota, I'm not in any way calling BS, but where in GA are you getting 40 mph winds? Or are you traveling somewhere else to shoot. There aren't many if any 1000 yard ranges in GA that are open to the public. I have access to a friend's private range that used to be a grass airstrip near the GA coast and even with the coastal breezes you rarely see over 25 there.

BigBboy25

You can take your math and try to prove what ever you want, those bullets I recovered and witnessing first hand what a 338 Win Mag vs 300 Win Mag proves you wrong. The bullet proof is in the hand!

I find it funny how someone can get there nickers all in a twist, 300 Win Mag 200 grain bullet at 3050 fps vs 338 Win Mag 225 grain at 3000fps and at 1000 yards the only difference is only the knock down power of a 22 Magnum, WOW LOL! This debate really cracks me up when you add the diameter of the bullet causing a much larger wound channel and much more hydrostatic shock than the smaller caliber!

Seeing is believing!

Got dinking around what I can do with my new Savage Muzzle loader shooting a Thompson Center Shock Wave muzzle loader bullet 250 grain with a Ballistic Coefficient of .240 with 75 grains of IMR4198 at 2800 fps. Check this out, at the muzzle 2800 fps and 4352 foot pounds and zeroed in at 225 yards will rise 3.0 inches at 100 yards with only minus 8.0 at 300 yards! Also a 500 grain at the muzzle at 2100fps and 4896 foot pound energy, rise 5.6 at 100 yards for a 225 yard zero and drop minus 13.3 inches a 300 yards.

Not bad for a muzzle loader thats not your daddies!

Like I said, I wasn't calling BS - I figured you had to be going somewhere besides GA for that kind of wind. And yes, 1000 yd ranges are not plentiful in GA. I have access to one but you have to go when the cows aren't there....

I kept looking at the 300 Dakota vs. 300 RUM, and for the life of me I don't see the big advantage that the RUM has. I have consulted my 7 manuals that have data for both and loaddata.com (one of my favorites) for more. Both are overbore, both burn a lot of powder, BUT the Dakota looks (and probably is) more efficient and works in a shorter action. There are faster numbers going from the Nosler#6 to the Nosler#5, but Retumbo and Magnum weren't listed in the #5 for the Dakota. If you discounted those there was little appreciable difference in the performance. AND, the Dakota was doing what it was doing with 15 -20 grains less powder. At the most I saw 50-100 fps advantage if that with the RUM, and that was only on a few loads. Verdict: the 300 RUM has a larger carbon footprint....

BigBoy25, I'd like to know what manual(s) you are working from. Also in your earlier 300Win Mag vs. 338 mag, you said 3050fps for a 200g Nosler Accubond. That's a good bit faster than even Nosler's book #'s. Maybe they should publish yours. If you go from their accuracy load(which I thought we were talking accuracy here as the core of the (ahem) discussion), the number drops to 2910 fps. At that, then the 300 vs. 338 argument blurs more and more.

Treestand you would do well to heed the advice of Clay Cooper, Dakotaman , S GA Redneck and Big O, I shot a high expert with the M1 Garand in 1959,& 1960, but that was on a KD Range at Fort Riley, I know my limitations, you need to set up at a KD range and learn yours. ( For the non military people KD is A KNOWN DISTANCE RANGE.)

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nm_campperry.asp

Camp Perry Website.

Ok clay, whatever you say, all hail the great Clay Cooper...... But I still say your wrong.

SGaRedneck:

That is my personal load, I figured if clay was going to give his load I could use mine. The Nosler Reloading Manual tests for a .300 Win Mag. were done with a 24" Barrel, I have a 28" Barrel on my rifle. My load is 72 Grs RL-22 listed for 2960fps with a 24" barrle in the Nosler reloading manuel, add four inches to the barrel length with that load and it gives you my velocity of 3050 fps.

BigBboy25

I agree with you on the foot pound, where the 338 has the advantage is the wound channel and hydrostatic shock. I have shot several Mule Deer and hundreds of Jack Rabbits and Coyotes with the 300 Win Mag I had and believe me as you probably know the loads were close or at the 300 Weatherby Factory loads.When I got my 338 Win Mag the devastation was horrific! Jack Rabbits and Coyotes were literally blown apart. When I got to Alaska June 86 thru June 90, the difference between the 300 Mags including the Super Wild Cats my 338 Had more Hydrostatic shock and much larger wound channel and you figured it, plenty of HAMBURGER!On paper looking at the Foot Pound Energy, one does think the 300 Win Mag does have an edge over the 338 Win Mag, but when you figure in the diameter of the bullet and the diameter of the mushroom this adds a totally different twist to the subject!

PS

Too bad you wasn't up there with me, I always let my Hunting Partner have first choice to shoot while I stood behind them with binoculars calling the shots low, high left or right, hit or miss! I turned it into a miniature "Military Rattle Battle", you had a shooter and a spotter if you ever been in one, kinda like a Sniper Team!

Gotta RUN, daylights wasting and I got a kitchen pass to hit Jacks Place to get some string time in!

Time to climb a tree!

Clay:

We can agree both of our combinations is deadly at long range. It's just a matter of personal preference and what gives us the most confidence I guess. I'm a numbers sort of guy, hence my pick. That bull I shot at 590 was with an '06 and a 180gr. accubond and I threw both shoulders out they were so chewed up.

SgaRedneck:

You're welcome for the clarification, and I've toyed around with the idea of building a .338 long range gun, and if I did make one, I'd chamber it in .338 Edge with a 30" barrel and I'd shoot 300 grain sierra mathckings out of it, it's give you a MV of a little over 2800fps! This rifle would be effective on game up to mile, But that is a shot no hunter should take. I chose .300 Win. Mag. because it will do everything I need it to. Are there other good choices, yes, lots of them.

BigBboy25, I can see why you and I differ on whats the best choice. Your being a numbers guy while I take the numbers and toss a little spice into the stew for a different taste. 300 or 338 or "WHATEVER"!, the real question and my bottom line is, above all the hate and discontent which one is best, can you hit "MOP" with the darn thing at that distance!

By the way, once I got to my destination my Sent Lock Bibs pant leg zipper busted so I dinked around with it for an hour trying to fix it. Jumped 2 does right were I was going to setup then realized I lift my Safety Harness in my backpack at home so I ground hunted. Get ready to leave and when I stood up, a small not legal Buck and 3 Does bolted off just on the other side of a dead fall. That's OK, I still got until 28 February to hunt!

It was a Cotton Tail!

Dakota Man I do not believe you can hit a Coke Truck, let a lone a coke can at 1000 yards, with a 40 mph cross wind. Sorry Brother

Thanks clay I am sure there are even more 1,000 yard ranges, the only tim I tried a 1,000 yard shot I missed 3 of five shots, I have always had glasses.

.50 cal BMG baby! Not only will it kill game at 600-800 yards, but it will also leave you with a nice mess of hamburger :-)

talbaugh

Like I said, it all depends how much punishment you can take! After4 years in Alaska, the 338 is my choice in the knockem down department! Nothing wrong with the 30 cal's, I think personally the 338 has a bit more edge over it and I can hit with my 338 Win Mag at those ranges.

I have done some in creidable stuff at those ranges with my 30-06, so it all burns down to the ability to hit "MOP" at those ranges!

That sounds good. My rifles are pretty heavy, two weighing 11 lbs and another weighing 14. Not a lot of fun to lug up the hill, but worth it in the long run for me.

willherlong

With some practice that will take good shot placement on elk?

YEP "MOP!

and a +1 for you Sir!

or a .50 BMG, sneak in a bit closer