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Question by dukerjj. Uploaded on February 05, 2009
I like the CVA products. Good value for a fair price, excellent warranty.
Savage Model 10ML-II is the best!
A Muzzleoaders Dream Come True
Call it innovation...call it thinking out of the box...at Savage, we call it listening to the needs of the hunter. That's why we developed the world's first smokeless powder muzzleloader. The 10ML-II's barrel and hardened breech plug are designed to safely contain the pressures from shooting smokeless. And, since smokeless powders are non-corrosive, the 10ML-II is a muzzleloader hunter's dream come true--clean it next week or next month--you decide.
The 10ML-II is loaded with options. Use smokeless powder, black powder, Pyrodex or other black powder substitutes--the choice is yours. Set trigger pull weight to your own requirements--the revolutionary AccuTrigger is a standard on the 10ML-II. This 50 caliber rifle with 209 primer ignition can deliver 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards and produces velocities exceeding 2,300 fps. With more than 3,000 foot pounds of knock down energy, the 10ML-II is muzzleloading perfection that caters to every taste.
I personaly like thompson center. I have used several models and have nothing bad to say about them. They can be a little pricey but I believe it is worth the extra money. I have also had good experiences with the customer service center when I broke my fiber optics in my front sight. They sent me a new one no questions asked.
PS my Brother has a Savage 10ML-II and it's the most accurate rifle he has!
I could not ask for any thing better than my TC omega
Thompson Center is a better designed, built and shooting gun over CVA.
I own an Optima, Renegade, 700ML and 2 CVA's. By far the good ole T/C Renegade is my favorite. 80 grns with a patched round ball shoots the best.
I've owned several in-lines and side locks but my all time favorite is my custom made Pennsylvania Lancaster County Flintlock long rifle. Never get tired of holding it. Perfectly balanced, accurate and has beautiful curly Maple full stock.
That Savage sounds bad a$$ i love my savage 93r17fv its accurate as hell i like savage rifles
i love my TC.
TC's are very, very well made.
I wouldn't be found anywhere close to a guy shooting a CVA after reading this article. CVA's are POS. Period
wow that is intense
I've never regretted buying my T/C Omega Z5.
CVA has always worked well for me! I have shot several and they were all accurate and reliable. Can't say the same for TC.
I shot my deer at 150 yards this year, measured with a laser range finder, with a patch and ball, through
both lungs, using a CVA accura, the most accurate muzzleloader I have ever shot. Bergara barrel and 6x-24x scope. CVAs are not junk.
i hav had t/cs in the past and this december decided to buy a cva optima i owned a omega before and let me tell u the guy below that also answered say cvas pos weel he is a pos. that cva shoots .5 inch groups at 150 with a 50 cal i was lucky to get 2 inch groups from my omega so i shoot 2 777 pellets(100) grains and a 245 grain aerotip powerbelt outta this thing @ 150 yards with only a 100 grains of powder. Plus my friend has a omega and we went ut coyote hunting and hel cldnt make near as far as shots i was making with my cva and so now i am proud to say i am a cva customer for life. CVA ALL THE WAY hint u r jus paying for tht tc name but in reality that name isnt worth a 1/2 a penny
I own a company (Muzzleloader Accuracy Xperts) that test muzzleloader equipment of all types to include bullets, powder, primers, rifles.... We do this with no sponsers, meaning that we foot the bill for everything we do and test. No one can buy or pay for a good review from us. We own many muzzleloaders, to include 8 Encores and 2 Omegas and alot of old side locks. In the past year, while looking for new projects, we have started testing two new rifles, both made buy CVA. These two rifles are without any question, the most accurate out of the box rifles we have tested to this date. One is the new CVA Apex and the other is their CVA Accura. Both have proven to be capibale of producing sub MOA gropes at 100 yards right out of the box!!! By the way, we have have also been very sucessful at getting many of our customers accuracy problems worked out with their Encores. The first thing we subjest to them is to replace their Thompson Center barrel with a Begara barrel, yes, the same barrel that comes standard on both the Apex and Accura. At this point, Thompson Center does not make a rifle that will compete, out of the box, with either the Apex or Accura. Be looking for or test videos about these rifles the summer of 2010.
CVA's accuracy is second to none and every year their innovation and new products continue to position CVA as a True Leader in the muzzleloader industry. With the introduction of Bergara Barrels in their line several years ago, plus their offering of competitive after market barrels it is hard to find a better value and quality product.
CVA offers exactly what customers are looking for today, quality products at very resonable prices throughout their product offerings.
For years people have been buying the TC products because "That's what my buddies have and it's the most expensive one so it MUST be a better gun and that's what I want!" It's agood thing there are those of us who can think for ourselves and don't care what other "Know-it-all's" think. It's like they can't think for themselves and when they get one they can't uderstand why they can't get it to group. BPI has fixed the grouping problem by offering the Bergara barrel for the TC Encore. That means their Apex comes out of the box more accurate than the TC. It cost less and shoots better. Don't take my word for it. Try it youself or are you affraid what your buddies will say? Truth is, they can't get their TC to group like they want it to either!
I've shot black powder guns for about 25 years now. I have owned many different brands over those years. Most of the time I bought something due to the marketing of that item. I read about the product and maybe the catchy name drew me in or it was the appearance. Most manufacturers have a marketing department that either does a great job or perhaps a not so great job. T/C had a great marketing department for years and sold a lot of guns because of that. A lot of sales didn't have anything to do with the quality of the gun. Now days the marketing is key but you have to back it up. Just like this web site, there are many that ask the consumers opinion. Here is mine--I shoot CVA-I shoot the guns now because they are a better gun-period. The look, feel and function of the gun is far better than its competitor T/C. I compared prices of T/C and CVA and found more and better features for less money-a lot less-on the CVA's. This is one case where you do not get what you paid for-with CVA you get much more. I shoot one of the new Accura's and it is hands down a better gun. Go to your local sporting goods store and pick one up. You will not want to put it down.
CVA has made an asserted efford to improve their guns to the quality level of the best of the best at a lower price. They have listened to what the customer has said and continued to make those improvements. Their guns of today are some of the most accurate, good functioning and stylish. It is just a better gun even if it wasn't better priced. I'm in the shooting industry and I shoot a lot of muzzleloaders and I own all brands and today's CVA are just plain hard to beat. From the switch barrel gun to the break open, or even the electronic ignition they are great guns.
CVA is the best answer out there bar none. The APEX and Accura has a better fit and appeal over anyone out there (including TC)and will prove itself for anyone out ther that knows how to shoot. The Begara barrels that are on the CVA APEX are the best out there and hold a true Accuracy Guarantee. As said above, go out and make your own mind up, not what your buddy says. If you are not getting paid to say what you like, then go out and shoot what is the best, CVA.
I work at a gun store in NC and for years I had what they call tunnel vision and the only muzzle loaders on the market were TC, that was until August of 2009 when my CVA REP stop by and ask me again if I would consider putting in the guns in the store I told him I would if I could I could get one to test. Well 2 days later I had a package arrive from CVA/BPI address to me and inside there was a ACCURA muzzle loader and a TC BERGARA muzzle loader barrel, I put the Bergara barrel on my TC frame and pick up the ACCURA and headed for the range. Well to make a long story short upon returning from the range I put my TC muzzle loader barrel for sale and also bought me and ACCURA. The TC wtih the Bergara barrel and the ACCURA both shot excellent I have never seen anything like it needless to say I have shot both of them over 400 rounds testing different sabot and bullets an the groups have been from .480,.523,.443,.416 to one group I shot last week which it was .271. Since them when A customer comes in and wants a muzzle laoder I show him every thing I carry but after showing the targets I keep at the store he buys the ACCURA. Out of the box there is nto a better gun them the ACCURA and if you own a TC PRO HUNTER and want to shoot this kind of groups put a bergara barrel own it. At this I'm in the proccess of testing tha APEX and a TC BErgara barrel in 45 cal. I will keep you guys posted.
Now to JAy who worte that CVA was a POS. all I have to say to you is that I know where you got your info from and it was from Randy Wakeman. Just remember IGNORANCE and lack of FACTS put together is a dangerous thing and it creates fear.
I like the CVA myself!!!
I have everything good to say about CVA. I have owned cva for about 3 years now and have no problems with the gun.. I shoot a wolf and fire about 200 rounds a year. I use a Hornady 45 cal 250 grain sst low-drag sabot and 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards .. I use 100 grain of loose 777 powder. I also have a bushnell red dot scope. I did my homework before buying. I saw right through the 2 guys who were trying to smear cva. Cva has continued to improve their production and quality of their muzzleloader's through the years since 1996. My next purchase will be the apex.
You want better groups you need to get you a down size kit and you'll get better groups!
VariFlame Primer Adapter
Cecil Epp has done it again! Introducing the new VariFlame Primer Adapter. You can now take advantage of an accuracy solution that was only available to a select few. Folks owning muzzleloaders that use 209 primers, which had no .25 ACP Breech Plug conversion made for them, can now use the VariFlame Primer Adapter kit. Incidentally, the VariFlame Primer Adapter in the front row, right side has been loaded and shot 50 times. Read what Cecil has to say about it below.
Works with Remington 700 ML 209 Conversion Kits and Replacement Nipples also. Click here to order Remington 700 ML 209 Conversion Kits and Replacement Nipples
Also works with the Ruger 77/50 209 Conversion Kit also. Click here to order the Ruger 77/50 209 Conversion Kit
Give this site a look; http://muzzleloadingbullets.com
CVA Barrels are not proofed. Check the write up by Chuck Hawkes and see just how dangerous they are.
I have a TC Impact and a CVA Apex both with Nikon Omega scopes and both in .50 cal. I've tried every bullet and sabot combo I can buy with both pellets and Blackhorn 209 powder. I still can't get a group better than 3" at a hundred yards. I can do better than that with my Rem 870 12 gauge with rifled barrel, which is what I use for deer because it's more accurate than my muzzle loaders. I hear all the marketing people talk about these small groups they shoot using their products but I never see them on paper at the 2 shooting ranges I belong to. Unfortunately you need to keep buying rifles until you luck into one that shoots. If that happens.. hang onto that rifle.
CVA, Knight, TC it's like determining what to buy between Ford, Toyota or GMC or a John Deere or New Holland. As the buyer of the gun you need to look at hold and feel the gun to see what is best for you. All the for mentioned manufacturers put out products that shoot, drive and work effectively. I personally like TC. I shot a deer yesterday at 120 yards perfect shot the deer ran 50 and dropped. My TC fits me well and that's why I like it others obviously like CVA. I personally owned a CVA when they first came into the market and didn't care for it. Not that it didn't shoot straight it just didn't fit me well. A deers vitals are roughly the size of a paper plate and with a TC or CVA open sights or with a scope you should be able to hit an area that size consistently. If you can't hit this area it's more then likely shooter error. If you are shooting competitively go with a Bergara barrel regardless as they are more accurate. CVA has them standard and you can order a Bergara barrel from TC. As I stated before hold both guns shoulder them see what fits you and look into what both companies represent. After you have done this make your decision not what someone else told you they would do.
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