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Question by Beekeeper. Uploaded on May 19, 2009
Wasn't Jim talking about the disapointment you would feel on finding out the velocity isn't what you thought it would be? In my experience replicating the velocity given in reloading manuals is often hard if not impossible to do without blown primers, etc. Maybe Mr. Cooper can bloviate on the subject for us. He seems to be the expert on hot loads. Clay, what say you O reloading Guru? I'll wait under the porch.
Now that chronographs are more affordable, and available to the general public, ammunition manufactures are less whimsical about their velocities. Perhaps, I should say more truthful.
I think Jim was trying to say the animals still went down, despite bad data..if you shoot carefully
Del you know this is my spot!(under the porch), cause I just thought I could "pee" like a big dog till I met you guys.
well..my favorite load is the 220 swift. disappointment i think not. but i guess i really don't know. never tried it
I chrony all my loads and have been surprised in both directions. Actually I think all you guys are right especially since in the old days not many people had chronograph so whatever the manufacturers said was often taken for granted. Old Roy was a great hand at promoting his cartridges and rifles during this time frame. I do believe that Jim mainly inferred that even if your load was not at the velocity you might believe it still would kill your game handily if you selected the right components and could shoot. I am certain that Jim fired enough factory and reloaded ammo through a chronograph that he knew what was going on. I really miss reading his articles but still glance through some of his books from time to time.
I remember that quote well. He was simply saying 'Don't believe factory claims about velocity. In fact, don't believe load manual claims'. He new what he was saying. There's to many variables. First thing I look at are my groups, cases, and then how easy the cases can be reformed and effort or lack of to insert the primer. If the primer inserts to easy after shooting a batch of max loads those loads may have been to much so throw them away the primers may fall out when chambering a newly loaded round. Above all don't feel you've done anything wrong by not achieving printed velocities.
Jim Carmichael of Outdoor Life fame
IS FULL OF IT!
I TRULY LOVE MY HUNTING LOADS!!!
Move over Big. There's plenty of room under there for two.
You know I'll give Jim two things he was a truely magical hunter and a very gifted writer. Back in the 70s and 80s which was his heyday most of the big manufactures flat out lied about velocity. Most were shot out of 28-30 inch barrels and then sold with 22 inchers. The same is true today as well. BUT to echo the aboves I believe that most reloading manuals are coming closer to reality while the big ones are still promoting the "NEW KIDS" like they did 50-60 years ago. Most of the short mags, ulra mags, super short mags will only duplicae or marginally improve upon a 50 year old cartrige. The manufactures are only trying to sell guns here. Hell they need to sell stuff just like everyone else. Don't blame them, I bought into the WSMs and WSSMs and some are better but most are not, but it does sell guns.
Same goes for your bow. I was disappointed for sure. Still deadly though. I'm not too caught up in numbers.(Not a reloader). It's your favorite because it works, right? Sometimes numbers fail to tell the story.
Yes, Mr. Carmichael was talking about velocity not being what you thought it would be. I'd say even after killing a barge full of game with a particular round/load the disappointment of lower than expected velocity still causes folks to go looking for something "better".
I suspect that Mr. Carmichael's opinion was based on people shooting factory ammo and the sparse availability of chronographs 20 years ago. People shot the factory loads and became believers in their favorite. To later discover that their favorite perhaps did not have the speed that was claimed might be a dissapointment. I have always reloaded and chronoed loads any way I could even before it was popular. I don't fall in love with a load for hunting until I know it is accurate and consistent and I depend on my chrono for that every time. I rarely shoot a factory load and I expect to get different results than the loading manuals becuase of the many variables in my personal rifle versus the one they used. I appreciate the load data the manuals offer and use it as a basis for working up my loads. I appreciate their load data enough to actually pay them for the manual.
Velocity may be a disappointment occasionally but the value of a chronograph is the ability to measure the variation from load to load. Typically the closer the feet per second is the better the load will shoot. It doesn't hold true all the time but It's a pretty sure bet.
Agreed with DakotaMan and + 1 for you sir!!!
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