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Question by dukerjj. Uploaded on February 05, 2009
what is better Thompson center muzzle loaders or CVA (Connecticut valley arms)
Depends on how much area is inside the fence. If it is less than a 1000 acres I'm not much for it. Over a 1000 acres and there is some challenge... but over all I would prefer free range and no fences.
I do not like baiting at all. There is no challenge to sitting on a feeder. Sooner or later game will show up. To me this is like shooting a cow in a feed lot. Feeding deer from a feeder also greatly increases the risk of spreading diseases such as EHD or Chronic Wasting Disease.
There are those that say food plots are just feeders. I disagree with that also. Food plots done right require an investment of time, labor, equipment, money and cooperation from mother nature. They will provide sustinance for deer after the season when they need good balanced nutrition the most. With food plots 1/4 acre or larger there is less chance of spreading disease and forages don't upset the balance of a deer's rumen the way some feeds do.
I don't hold with any fenced in area that holds game for hunting. It's not really hunting if you have them fenced in where they can't get away for good. If you can't kill a deer if 100 % fair chase conditions then you probably don't need to hunt. As far as baiting deer or any other animal for that matter I won't sit over corn and anything like that. I don't personally have a problem with food plots though.
fenced hunting is asanine baiting is ok if you dont hunt over it
I think baiting takes the fun and challenge out of hunting. But I understand if its done later in the year, because hunting can get pretty hard, and some people just need the venison.
A trophy buck would not mean much to me if it was: 1. Shot by someone else. 2. Shot over bait. 3.Shot inside a high fence. 4. Hit by a vehicle.
On the other hand when hunting for meat. Anything legal such as baiting is fine with me. After all in that case the idea is to get meat not a trophy. Today I photographed Steve Binkley's huge 242 inch buck. He is AWESOME and said to be worth many $K. Not worth much to me 'cause I didn't shoot him.
I'll jump on the bandwagon, High Fences arn't good for anything except business. People paying money to shoot that "once in a lifetime buck" when really... Its a deer that has basically been grown, and doesn't hold the same characteristics of a "wild" and "free range" deer where survival for them is a neccisity. As far as baiting, I've hunted on bait and even this year sat on a feeder or two. Heres where I'll disagree a tad bit. Putting feeders up isn't just a promise for deer to show up. I live in central FL and have put out gravity feeders and have watched deer literley walk around my feeder. Now I do prefer hunting away from bait just because of the challenge, But I do use bait to get the deer to come in my general area, for example, My 5 acres surronded by 250. Or my side of the fence instead of my buddys side of the fence which he happens to hunt. All in all hunting is hunting, Its a challenging sport.
BTW, Steve's buck is locked in a vault at undisclosed location except when the Taxidermist is working on the mount.
i beleive baiting and high fences are OK
I like to bait in post rut for the fact that there are few food sources. Where I hunt, that is the only way you will see deer. I am not a fan on fenced hunting, unless the area is a large area (1000+ acres).
fenced hunding is just wrong. i bait up intill 2 weeks before the season, just to get pictures an see what is still around. but i would never hunt over it.
There is no sport to fenced hunting, there is a high fence hunting setup near my home and I don't see the sport in it. You can walk up to the fence and see the exotics and other game sitting ther like they are pets waiting for you to pet them.
Fair Chase is always better in my opinion
If it is legal, I am not the type of person to put someone down for choosing to hunt that way. I personally would not want to hunt in a fenced in area, or use bait to hunt either, but there is nothing wrong with doing either if it is legal. I do think that B&C should never change its rules to include any type of animal harvested within fences, regardless of how many acres are involved.
Wrong and wrong again, it is never fair to hunt and animal that is fenced in, and I don't care how large the area is. This is not how hunting should be. Bait, I have mixed feelings on this topic if done right, meaning food plots, not just piles of gain. Let us all remember, that the word hunt, truly means putting your skills verses the animals, not fencing them in or bringing them to a bait pile. Hunters use your skills...
cannot stand the idea of fenced hunting. i really wish the outdoor tv shows would use disclaimers when they hunt fenced operation. that said, i won't criticize those who utilize it unless they start claiming to their trophies (pay by the inch) as "booners". B& C is limited to fair chase, free-ranging animals. as for feeders, learn the animals habits, do not create new habits.
I couldn't agree more with MB915. Fences and feeders are not for me, but I dislike the B-word, ban, even more. There are not enough hunters as a percentage of the total population for us to pick and choose our "pure" allies. The antis don't like any hunting, and they are fanatically committed to stopping all of it. They do not discriminate and we shouldn't either. If we don't hang together, we shall surely all hang separately.
I am all for feeders and high fences. I have hunted with and without. The vast areas of land under high fence in west and south Texas are not unlike your National Forests. The snobs who turn their noses up at the fence by saying " Its not fair" will be the first to grab a high powered rifle and "sneak" within 300 yards to shoot a buck and say that it was "fair-chase". Those high fences add greatly to the health of a deer heard by stopping EHD and CWD at the gate. They also reduce highway accidents saving untold millions in insurance premiums.
To the rest of you "purists" who prefer the loin cloth and knife; you have a much better chance of killing a mature buck on a food plot than you ever will under a feeder. The feeder supports the health of young deer and does. Trophy bucks will generally never come anywhere close to the feeder. Food plots and grain fields are way less sporting than a feeder but since we are about fair; we need to outlaw deer drives because you are not outsmarting the deer you are just herding him like a cow. Hunting on private lands where grain is grown should also be outlawed because thats really just a big feeder.
I do not think fenced hunting is fair for animals. That said I do not really care if people do it. If cared about how the animals felt about it I would have taken up golf instead. That said I don't do it and probally never will.
Baiting is ok, but here in michigan where it is currently banned because of chronic wasting disease. I think it is good that it is regulated.
For me at the end of the day it is all about putting some meat on the table, how it got there is less important than the fact that it is there. I think alot of people get to caught up in the thrill of the hunt to really appreciate what it is really about.
Fenced hunting is not fair chase and any true hunter would not consider it fair chase. The sad thing is with property owners taking advantage of leasing their land for hunting to make some extra money; so does the person who chooses to have fenced in areas to hunt. Freedom of choice I guess, we don't have to like it, but we have to live with it.
There isn't one answer for the whole country. It really depends on the size of the property and the population of deer. There are fenced ranches out west that are larger than the gamelands and state parks we hunt in the Northeast- business owners have every right to protect their heard from traffic or predators.
Unfortunately, there are also places where you can buy a trophy buck and "hunt" it from a heated blind with a TV. I'd hardly consider that hunting, but if someone is foolish enough to pay 10m for a buck- I guess that's his business. It must be a great story to tell your grandchildren, "Well tommy- I recall is was cold that day as the guide drove me to the blind in a golf cart.. I remember it was half time when he told me a big one was approaching the feeder... I placed my $15,000 custom 30-06 on the bench rest and dropped him from 50 yards.."
Where I live in SE PA, we are over-populated with doe and I'd support anything that reduces the heard including crossbows, baiting, or higher bag limits. May main concern here is with baiting is disease not ethics.
I've tried to do corn piles for years. I have not shot a deer over one yet. I have shot 8 deer in the past two years, none of them were within 200 yards of my corn pile, so the statement that baiting is "unfair" is disputable.
I have done baiting in the past, but have never shot a large deer over a bait pile. However I have shot several Pope and Young deer, but they have been over large food plots or agricultural fields. I used to treat bait piles as supplemental feeding through the harsh winter months, but I have found good food plots have been much more successful and actually cheaper in the long run. However their are certain places that you would never see a deer if it wasn't for baiting. For example,most of the hunts in northern Canada you wouldn't get a chance at a large whitetail if it wasn't for baiting. Or in Texas, you might never get a deer to step out of a sendaro. For high fences it is cool to see large animals, but it isn't hunting if it has a guarantee.
Teufelhunden posted an outright fallicy in his comment. CWD and EHD are bred and spread mostly by high fence operations. That is why I worked tirelessly on the citizens initiative in MT to ban hunting on game farms. The landowner can still operate them but it thinned their ranks considerbly. All game farms are required to double fence to prevent any ingress/egress however failures do occur and any potential contact by wild animals with game farm pet targets will immediately result in MASSIVE extermination efforts and testing of all wild deer and elk in near proximity. I remember just such a situation with a game farm by Hardin, MT. CWD and EHD symptoms do not show up in game farm animals until they have been bought, transferred and had offspring. Just look at how these diseases are spreading in areas with game farms. All hunters in all states should would on constitutional ammendments to ban hunting on game farms.
I never have and never will take a animal in a fenced trophy for cash, business. To me it's not hunting and for those who spend thousands may do so just don't post and brag about your conquest and tell us a long story to make yourself out to be a stud hunter. It makes the rest of us sick. As far as baiting goes there is really no need for it, although it does help farmers. If a state decides to allow food plots but outlaws dumping of bait, then this is wrong because foodplots and dumped bait both exist for only one reason and that is drawing animals for hunting. I see nothing wrong with recreational feeding as long as it's spread out over a large area and not during hunting seasons.
I did not post an outright fallicy. Fences by their very nature reduce interaction between deer. Without interaction the disease can be stopped and eradicated before they leave the fence. I know of no wildlife manager that would invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in a deer herd and not monitor the health of his herd; that would be lunacy. Constant spray programs can pretty much eliminate the midges that cause EHD.
High fence is not fair. Something wild shouldnt be fenced in. The deer don't belong to the landowner they belong to every tax paying American. And if I'm correct doesn't that mean that in high fence places they are bought and sold like cattle? Then fed and vaccinated like cattle? Doesn't leave much room for sport in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but anyway you look at it its not right.
To compare an agricultural field to a feeder is just plain ignorant. I've never heard of disease being easily spread from deer eating from the same 100 acre bean field. Can't say the same for feeders. And mature bucks rarely come to feeders? I dont own a feeder and wouldn't know but I have seen countless pics and video of very nice bucks standing around and eating from a feeder.
Baiting and feeding in my opinion can be detrimental to herd health. Many diseases are easily spread from deer eating from the same bait pile. Winter feeding I think can be done with the right intentions to help them make it through a rough winter but when they grow dependent on it and it stops, they suffer. I say leave the WILD in WILDLIFE.
Unless someone can give me a really good reason why some people should have thousands of acres of land that is fenced off to non-paying customers while public land is taken and hunters have to pile into what is left of the public land, i see no good reason for fenced off areas.
As for baiting, pointless. No hunting involved.
There is no fence in the world that can contain a der or prevent their interaction. CWD has been documented to stay in the soil long after captive pet targets have been removed. Have you noticed that there have been CWD problems in every state that has game farms. Thats why everyhunter reading here needs to actively pursue how they cam ban hunting on game farms in their home state.
I think it all depends on the situation, but it, like other things is right at times, but just as often, if not more often they are not right. Plus it might not be legal. Just things to consider.
montana hunter wrote;
"Have you noticed that there have been CWD problems in every state that has game farms."
Could that possibly be because more of the deer are tested? Truth is no one has any idea where CWD came from, nor does anyone have any idea how many wild deer are carriers. There are many legitimate reasons to disagree with high fence hunting; CWD and EHD are not one of those reasons.
In my state it's illegal, but I think it is OK if you have an over-population. Other than that I believe it kinda takes the sport out of hunting.
baiting is ok but only for certain animals. but no to high fences
High fence 'hunting' ain't hunting, it's a captive herd of livestock. These 'hunt preserves' where you don't need a hunting liscense, that's not hunting.
Baiting, if allowed by your Game Laws, is sometimes neccesary to achieve managemant goals. Though frowned upon maybe, using bait in some circumstances is acceptable if allowed by law.
I think it's fine as long as there is a big asterisk behind the score of the Buck's or Bull's Antlers! Fair chase on public land with a general license/tag should be the only way to harvest a trophy of a lifetime. I'll take a 170-180 Class Mule Deer Buck tagged on public land without a guide over a 190 Buck taken from a private ranch or governer auction tag any day, hands down!
i dont like them
People who hunt in fenced area are more then likely doing it purely for sport. If I could say I HATE the idea of killing for antler or horn size....I call it murder since they don't eat the meat and only keep the "trophy". The trophy is the meat itself!
a fenc to keep out stuff out is fine but not to keep stuff in. and baiting is wroung
I could deal with baiting, but fenced hunting is not really hunting in my opinion.
Absolutely no fences.
Baiting is nothing compared to fenced hunting... that is not hunting... you might as well just trap an animal and then kill it. That is not hunting... hunting is about going out there and maybe getting something, maybe not... not guaranteed success.
The thing that gets my goat is when these people come to my state of Idaho and pay $10,000 for a high fence elk hunt. Some work hard some don't but they all walk away with a trophy. When I say trophy I mean a museum trophy. Then everybody else busts their butts and gets a rag horn or a spike and everybody is like "is that a deer or an elk?" If I was the dictator every elk shot in a high fence must have it's florescent ear tag intact when mounted. Just to show that it isn't really a real elk that has been elusive, pure and a real trophy.
Haha I saw a comment way near the top by Kolbster in which he claimed that he has bait out "until two weeks before the season starts", but he would "never hunt over bait". If you have the bait out all year minus about a month, where do you think the deer will be the one month that their is no bait?!?!? SAME SPOT!!!!!
No thanks, No fenced hunting or baiting here!!!
I don't care for high fences but if that is what some people want to do I am not one to bad mouth them. The anti's do enough of that. Each person to choose what type of hunting they want to do. I don't bow hunt but I think it is fine. Hunting is hunting some people just see it different ways and I am not one to judge just because I don't want to do it that way.
I wouldnt mind so much if the Freakin deer wasnt bottle fed & trained to come & eat to the sound of a buck grunt...thats just not hunting bro.
Its not even hunting on all the tv shows! Its just a bunch of people who pretend to be hard core hunters. They probably don't even gut their own deer! Its a bunch of bs!
They just keep on doing the TV shows because dummies like us just keep on watching. Shame on us. I keep saying I won't watch another show because they are so fake but for something better to look at I seem to look at them again until I get too disgusted and turn the channel.
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