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What's the Best Survival Weapon?
If you’ve watched Survivorman, it’s hard to ignore the fact that Les Stroud, the star of the show, seems to starve during every episode. I don’t mean this as a criticism; Stroud is the real deal. But his hunger pangs raise a point: Boy Scout improv works better on the page than in the forest. If you want to bring down enough bacon to keep up your strength, you’re going to need bullets—and the more, the better. With this in mind, I recently tested two different approaches to the survival question.
The Pocket Protector
The Henry U.S. Survival firearm ($245; henryrepeating.com) is an updated version of the ArmaLite AR-7 designed for the Air Force. Weighing a scant 21⁄2 pounds, it is the ultimate breakdown .22, with the action and barrel unscrewing to fit inside the ABS synthetic buttstock, which floats in case your canoe capsizes. (Testing revealed the rifle also bobs like an apple when fully assembled.)
A lightweight .22 is a proficient survival firearm for harvesting small game, and at first glance the Henry seemed to perfectly marry the longer sighting plane of a rifle with pistol portability. But tests revealed a problem. The Henry is a blowback semiauto with a rough chamber and a reputation for unreliable feeding, and jamming was the rule until I switched from flat-nosed, regular-velocity ammo to CCi Stingers, which are high-velocity jacketed round-nose bullets. It seems to require kickback from a speedy bullet to work the strong spring of the bolt. The receiver rib is grooved for scope mounts, but this is a gun chosen for portability, and the adjustable aperture rear and ramp front sight proved adequate for the ranges at which most hunters will use it. I shot a 1⁄12-inch group at 20 yards—plenty good to render rabbit into hasenpfeffer.
The verdict? If I knew in advance I’d be forced to feed myself with a .22, I’d choose a more substantial takedown model, such as the Browning SA-22 or Marlin’s 70PSS Papoose. But where space and weight come at a premium, the Henry is a good choice. And it will keep you in squirrel stew as long as you feed it ammo it has an appetite for.
A Sleeve Up My Sleeve
The second gun I tested was a longtime friend—my .350 Remington Magnum. The best survival weapon is the one you have in your hand when you face a survival situation. For most hunters, that’s a centerfire rifle.
What turns an elk thumper into a small-game provider is the cartridge. Instead of using full-power loads, I fired handgun rounds using a cartridge conversion sleeve (KJ Knives: $25; 406-669‑3382). A conversion sleeve is a housing that encloses a handgun cartridge so it fits the diameter of a rifle bore. (For the .350, it’s the .38 auto.) You can drop 30 or more pistol rounds into a pocket and forget they are there. Reserve your big-game loads to signal for help or rebuff teeth-gnashing creatures of the night.
As expected, the pistol bullets seldom shot to the crosshairs, at least not at rabbit range. But accuracy was adequate and estimating holdover was simple—simple enough, anyway, to reward me with a snowshoe hare while I was elk hunting last fall. True, you have to eject the conversion sleeve after each shot, remove the shell, and reload. But firepower isn’t an issue regardless of the survival gun you choose—just as long as your first aim is true.
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Comments (56)
I think the best survival weapon is your brain, or your ability to use your personal knowledge and experience to evaluate your situation and what tools you have so you can then write on this blog how you did it.
haha nice RJ Arena.
RJ Arena-
Les Stroud woud have been very pleased that you were taking notes during Survivorman.
Great article and reminder ...
What about a velmet or a savage 24 in 22hornet(or whatever floats you boat) over 12gauge? Seriously. Or just a pump 12 gauge shotgun and forget the rifle. I mean you got birds on the ground or wing, all small game, and you can take or fend off large game.
This question is way to easy.
I think shotguns are better all around or survival guns. You can shoot different shot for different game or use slugs.
when i hike in the back country or go out on long range hunting tip i always use to take a pistol grip moss 500 with an rifled barrel. but that sleeve sounds like something i might try. sometimes i can't carry two firearms when i am hunting.
You can survive 30 days easy with no food. Water is another story. More thought should be put in to where and how will you get potable water rather than the gun you carry. Unless I am hunting (in which case that determines the gun) I would rather carry a water filter, billy can, or a piece of clear plastic to make a solar still. Of course a good knife or a multi tool.
I was considering buying a .32 ACP conversion sleeve for my '06 or .308, but I've heard stories. Bad ones. Is the risk of that thing damaging or getting stuck in your chamber significant? I asked on here once, but no one had any solid answers one way or the other.
I had a Charter Arms AR-7, same gun as the Henry that was reviewed, and it was a .22 hose that would indeed jam (crossstacking usually) and I didn't like the crude peep sight.
I also had a Savage 24 campers companion(.22 over 20 gauge) and I loved that gun. Presently I have Savage 24 in .22 over .410 which has a longer barrel and nicer wood, but that Campers Companion would be my pick for the "survival gun". A Gaugemate 20 to .410 adapter would allow you to use both .410 and 20 gauge shells so you could give a squirrel in a tree a .22, a ptarmigan a whiff of .410 or shoot a deer with a 20 gauge slug or buckshot. Both Savage 24s of mine broke down easily into barrel and stock but the shorter barrel of the Campers Companion was the same length as the stock, both fit into a nice soft case that would attach to a pack frame nicely.
I haven't gotten to check out the Valmet, although I've seen pictures. Then there was the Staggs-Bilt 20 gauge over 30-30 lever action over-n-under that was manufactured in limited numbers back in the 60's, I'd like to hear if anybody out there has experience with either the Valmet or the Staggs-Bilt guns.
Then there is the time honored European Drilling, 3 barrels with 2 shot barrels and a central rifle barrel, but every one of those I ever looked at was too pretty to grab in a "survival" situation.
Only issue I ever had with my Savage over-n-under is that the state wouln't let me hunt deer with it. The rifled barrel disqualifies it for shotgun season, but it is great for rabbits and squirrels!
As far as conversion sleeves go I have several of the Gaugemate shotgun adapters and they are extracted by the ejector for easy removal. Never had a problem with 'em. Hadn't tried any rifle to pistol cartridge adapters yet so I couldn't guess how they'd work.
I was thinking about the Thompson/Center Encore in the .45/.410 for a back pack hand gun. My main resoning is with one barrel you have both the .45 colt for the larger animals and .410 for smaller game and birds. Whats your thoughts on this?
From charlie elk; "You can survive 30 days easy with no food".
I know that food is much lower on the priorities list in a survival situation than water and shelter, but I seriously doubt that surviving for 30 days would be “easy” for anybody.
Your endurance would decline day by day, especially in conditions that require a lot of calories to maintain body heat such as very cold or hot weather. In cold weather your body works harder to maintain your core temperature thus burning more calories. Without food, your body will not be able to maintain your core temperature efficiently. On the other hand, if you don’t eat in very hot weather and only drink water you will lose electrolytes through sweat and death can result.
Another factor to consider is the psychological need for food. Food is comforting and maintaining a positive mental attitude is essential in a survival situation. Food comforts the survivor and facilitates clear thinking, positive and proper decision making.
By the way, I don't think there is a "best" survival gun. A shotgun is mulitrole yet a .22 revolver is reliable, portable and it's easy to carry around fifty or a hundred rounds of long rifle ammo.
Mutt - I like the idea.
I figure if you dropped me off in the middle of the wilderness and asked me to survive I'd want more than a .22 cal or a 410. Heck, a 30.06 will do just fine.
Your mind and any accurate 22 Long rifle and a box of ammo.
Good call on the drilling Bella. Those things trip me out.
a thompson contender with two barrels, a .22 and a large game load barrel.
Your bain is by far THE BEST survival weapon availible. (Second is a good knife and third is a good rifle.)
The best survival gun in my opinion is an 1894 Marlin 44 Magnum. You can load light loads for rabbits, squirrels, etc and you can load HOT loads for Moose and Elk. I can hit a deer's vitals out a maximum range of 200 yards with mine and it is plenty powerful and you can carry a crap-load of ammo.
i agree 100 % with rj arena
Rubbish. This is not a game show. You can't call out for pizza.
The Armalite AR7 is the real deal. Yeah, like I can have a salad bar of loads when I crash land? I'll be really happy if I can walk away from it. Try it. Do a "Les Stroud" for a week. See how you go.
Question: I can build a fire with a steel knife and a mag sparker block in the pissing rain 30 seconds. Can you? For heaven's sake practice when you can.
Shotguns would be great guys, but they are big and bulky. I kind of think that defeats the purpose of this article.
I think the Savage 24 is a great emergency/survival gun, I have one myself in .22/20gauge, but it's not exactly what I'd use as an emergency backup weapon on a hunting trip given it's size and weight. (It makes a SUPERB squirrel/rabbit gun on small game hunting trips, though...) If it were me in this situation, I'd rather just carry a compact .22 pistol of some sort (where legally permitted) which will put small game in the pot at say 25 yards or so with ease, without adding lots of weight to your pack. And a 50-count box of CCI .22LR ammo doesn't take up much space in your pack.
good gun
I would love to have a Drilling, 12x12x7mm you can feed and defend yourself, BUt you need other things too lightweight Poncho for shelter,multitool, matches or bic lighter iodine pills for water and gps signal.
An accurate .22 in the right hands will take down any game animal on the north american continent.
Although a shotgun would be the best all around gun, you couldn't beat a .22 for taking animals and birds on the ground. You could also carry a lot more .22 shells because of their size and weight. I agree that a well-placed .22 will take down most if not all N. American animals.
No clues on chamber inserts? Will they get stuck or damage my chamber? I've heard from some that they will.
i think this is a nifty little gun it fits back into itself and it shoots the cheapest round in the world it isnt the most powerful round in the world but if its a survival aituation you will be gratefulfor anything you can shoot to eat
If you don't have a gun, then a knife is the best survival tool. I think second best would be a compass because it can help you get out of whatever you are in. If I was stuck with one of the two guns that were tested - I'd take the .22 LR. You can kill anything with a .22 LR - if you are good with it...practice makes perfect. Why own it if you can't use it???
If I also have to pack the ammo, I'll take a .22 rifle. Next best for portability might be a Single Six in 22Mag/22LR.
Anyone know anybody who had to use the AR-7 or derivatives for the intended purpose, whether military or civilian? Gun tests are fine but actual survival tales would be better, don't you think?
I have a savage 24 with a williams peep. A leather sling holds 2 buckshot 3" shells while an elastic sleeve on the buttstock holds 2 3/4 #4s and #6s. It is a 22 mag over a 20 gauge. Fixed choke. Looking over the peep, I can hit skeet proficiently. This is an excellent weapon for meat.
the problem with boy scouts (they were mentioned in the article) is that they rely too much on being prepared i highly doubt when they are hunting they have all that gear you wouldnt last long going by their books
well, i take offense.if u actually took the hunter ed course you would know that your supposed to have a small survival kit AND a medikit AND a knife AND a compass on you when you go hunting. Isnt that what the boyscouts require to?????
RJ Arena-
Les Stroud woud have been very pleased that you were taking notes during Survivorman.
nerffodder has a good point!
@ j-johnson17:
A knife is a *far* more valuable survival tool than a gun. Can you do any of the following with your gun: Clean what you just shot, make kindling, strip down and make cordage, help start a fire, signal a rescue plane, sharpen a stick to a spear, make a splint / walking stick / improvised fishing pole, or build a shelter? OK, then a knife is probably ahead of a gun in terms of useful survival weapons.
Moving along the same subject...
In fact, I'd take a whistle before taking a gun. Much better as a signaling device. Come to that, an EPIRB would be a much better "survival weapon" than a gun. Heck, in a lot of places a CELL PHONE will do more for you than any gun could. ;) Oh, but you've got your rifle and didn't take along a powered down cell phone? Please. :)
I'll lightly treat not always being in a survival situation location where firearms are legally permitted. Yes, I'd rather have one of my guns with than lose my life. But I'd much rather rather be rescued in a survival situation than arrested or cited for unlawful possession in a non-survival situation. (Yes, flamers, do your best. But read the end of this.)
I think I remember that, in the "Sierra Nevada" episode of Survivorman, Les Stroud mentioned most successful SARs conclude within 72 hours of their beginning. Again, I'd rather have a gun than die because SAR can't find me. But even more vital to survival is leaving your itinerary for your outing with a trusted friend or relative.
Postscript: No, I am *NOT* anti-gun. I have carried on hikes and day-trips into the Arizona desert - where it was legal to. Guns surely do have a place in survival preparation. I could have just agreed with RJ Arena instead of posting this screed.
Even so, "The Best Survival Weapon," as a firearm, depends upon your the situation you find yourself in. In Elk and Bear country a good .44 or .454 pistol may save your life. In small game country an accurate .22 may save your life much more efficiently. But forethought (and not thinking a gun automatically equals survival) will probably provide better odds. Including when *not* to include one.
I have used a chamber adapter in .32 auto/.308 for several years. I recently replaced mine after the original got lost in a move. I do not know where the original one, which was made of aluminum came from,it was given to me. The replacement, which is stainless steel, came from MCA Sports in Anchorage, Alaska. You can get a blued one for $20 or stainless for seven dollars more. When I replaced the thing, someone asked me how well it shot. At the time, all I could tell him was, "about like a good .22, but it hits harder". Since then, I took mine to a local range on 'Sighting-In Day' and took a box of ammunition with me. With my Rem 788 sighted in at 25 yards, I can cover a .308/165 gr./3 shot group with a quarter 3" high at 100 yards. On the same range, same day, with the cheap 71 gr. .32 ammo, at 25 yards with scope I had a 5-shot dime-sized group on point of aim. At 100 yards, it opened up to the size of an Eisenhower half-dollar and 3" to the right. I have never had an adapter stick, but then, I keep my rifle and chamber clean. On the new adapter, the fired .32 cases stuck at first, but that cleared up after about 50 or 60 rounds and having been cleaned 3 or 4 times. If they stick, just take the case in your hand, reverse it and blow the fired case out. Does that answer your questions?
By the way, I have had a Savage 24-C .22/3" 20 Ga. since the late '70's. It is my favorite "just-out-messing-around" gun. And the knife I carry is actually two, a swiss army knife, and one of the 'pilot survival knives' that was issued to me while I was in the Army.And yes, I have lived 'out in the boonies' for various periods of time. (and I wasn't impressed with the M7, either. Take a handful of fishing gear, instead.)
No one has mentioned the Taurus Judge
I shot one a few weeks ago and it was outstanding. 2 1/2 inch 410 shells and 45 Colt ammo. It will dance some wood blocks at 15 yards or so with #6 shot. Pretty devastating with slugs or buckshot too.
I don't know if I would shoot Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon ammo in it, but any normal 45 colt loads would work great. Maybe some 265 grain lead flat-nose ammo for big game, and the shotgun side for rabbits, squirrels and birds etc.
Another option I have is an old bolt-action 12 gauge. It has a short barrel with a bead sight and some sort of crude notch in the rear for slugs. It doesn't weigh much and can shoot a variety of slugs, buck, bird shot, steel waterfowl etc. It also fires 12 gauge pistol flares. I think I paid $65 for it. I don't shoot too many slugs in it because it really, really hurts. it's very light and very short. Tough to beat the judge though.
AKX
Thanks F&S for enphasizing that Les Stroud is the real deal! I sometimes worry that some kid is gonna get seriously hurt trying to jump down a waterfall in sub zero temp. because he watched TV stuntman Mr. Bear Grills do it!
Trying to argue the best survival weapon is like trying argue the best caliber deer rifle; everyone has there own opinion and there will never be a correct answer. Guns and knife both have their strengths and weaknesses it just depends on your situation. With a knife you can do a lot more than a gun, but if your ruffing it long enough your blade will probably go dull and eventually be useless. The same with a gun you can probably kill a lot more with it, but eventually your going to run out of bullets and then your carrying around dead weight. But if you truly want my opinion anybody who goes walking into the woods without both is a damn fool.
JHawes said it all!
Although this is a great idea why carry the extra weight? The average person can live without food for a total of 3 weeks,but can only live without water for three days. I don't think many people get lost for 3 weeks.
I know it's not an original idea, but the brain and a decent sheath knife are best for starters.
I agree with Keith, the Browning and the Papoose are much better firearms. I had the Charter Arms AR7 and when the alloy barrel heated up, the rifle would walk all over the target. It was not a jammer though. I've heard the Henry is a great improvement over the originals but never shot one myself. If you get a chance, see if you can locate the Pathfinder School videos on Youtube. The guy takes a $20 single shot he bought at a pawn shop, then shows you a simple modification to have it shoot 45 Colt and .410. Then his youngest son proceeds to shoot out the X-ring on a target. Then he shows you how to reload the shells (both types) with a hammer, a board and a nail. I just sat with my mouth open. I do like the Ruger convertable 22/22mag. Can anyone say if the Hunter version is really worth the extra money? I think if I really had to feed myself on a semi-regular basis, I'd get a few good traps--from a cabin--or wire snares from a backpack. If my hunting is anything like what its like in "real life," I'd be found as a skeleton with alot of rounds in my pockets.
I agree with Keith, the Browning and the Papoose are much better firearms. I had the Charter Arms AR7 and when the alloy barrel heated up, the rifle would walk all over the target. It was not a jammer though. I've heard the Henry is a great improvement over the originals but never shot one myself. If you get a chance, see if you can locate the Pathfinder School videos on Youtube. The guy takes a $20 single shot he bought at a pawn shop, then shows you a simple modification to have it shoot 45 Colt and .410. Then his youngest son proceeds to shoot out the X-ring on a target. Then he shows you how to reload the shells (both types) with a hammer, a board and a nail. I just sat with my mouth open. I do like the Ruger convertable 22/22mag. Can anyone say if the Hunter version is really worth the extra money? I think if I really had to feed myself on a semi-regular basis, I'd get a few good traps--from a cabin--or wire snares from a backpack. If my hunting is anything like what its like in "real life," I'd be found as a skeleton with alot of rounds in my pockets.
Sorry about the double post server was stuck on the load.
For survival equipment while flying to Alaska I carried a 12 ga. double barrel shotgun. The shot gun was double trigger and could be broken into. My reasoning is that the two barrel together are very stout, you have another barrel if one misfires or damage occurs to one barrel. I carried two boxes of shell. One was light bird shot for small game. The other box had a combination of slugs, buckshot, and #4.
That .22 is pretty neat. After they work out the bugs I might get me one of them things
Had an ar7 it was not worth having would rather have and H&R survivor maybe a little heavyer but you have storage in the stock for items and you have a choice of calibers from 45-410 to 223 or 308 which to me would be a better choice for survival.
The other most important thing for survival besides your brain is your instincts and then all you need is a knife,a gun is more of a luxury and really a big help.
I think some of you have missed the point... This article is about "The Best Survival Weapon".
If it was about a specific way to survive, or 1 piece of gear, I'd have to say my choice is either a satillite cell phone or one of those personal rescue beacons like the "ACR".... but that's not what this is about.... its about a weapon....
I personally keep a .38+P in my pocket and enough extra ammo to fill the cylinder twice. My opinion is that "less is more" The less I have to carry while walking in the field, the more mobile I should be. An item like the I'd rather not have to be lugging a large pack around with unnecessary gear. A .22LR pistol should be enough for taking small game for survival as long as the person is proficient with using the weapon.
Thats just my opinion...
i completly agree with you stogie
I enjoyed reading the various comments above. What's the best survival weapon? Starts with your brain, which should already be on board. If you're wearing clothes, you should also have at least one knife in your pocket or on your belt at all times. I happen to always carry something that goes bang when I go out. For concealment this is usually a .380 or a .357 magnum. So what to "carry" when you go out, since you already have some gray matter and a knife? Has anyone seen the S&W model 317 with a 3 inch barrel? Capacity is 8 rds and it weighs 12.5 oz empty. That pistol and a box of 50 rds would make a great "kit" gun in my opinion. That said my favorite pistol to carry when I go into the woods is a Taurus Tracker made of Titanium chambered in .357. It weighs 24 oz empty. Readily available in SS and both revolvers have integral compensators and hold 7 rds. A variety of ammunition is available to suit just about every survival need, to include 180 grain hard cast bullets. I carry an ammo "wallet" with a selection of different ammo, including some .38 special for smaller targets where keeping the meat intact is an issue.
Yes, I had the old AR-7. It shot straight , but always had problems with the jams upon shell ejection. I hear the new model is better. The Papoose is a real nice gun, but bigger and heavier.
You guys are all missing the point. Make a fire. The premise is flawed as you will never find yourself in one of Les Stroud's scenarios. 99.9% of the time, you will have told someone where you are going. Make a fire. After about 3 days, you will have to suck it up and tell yourself you are lost. Make a fire. The S and R team will be looking for you. If you happen to have a .22 with you, you're eating well. Did I mention to make a fire?
Earlier, in my comment above, I neglected to say that the S&W model 317 is a .22 cal long rifle, revolver. Which is why that and 50 rds of .22 cal ammo would make a great kit gun.
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I think the best survival weapon is your brain, or your ability to use your personal knowledge and experience to evaluate your situation and what tools you have so you can then write on this blog how you did it.
What about a velmet or a savage 24 in 22hornet(or whatever floats you boat) over 12gauge? Seriously. Or just a pump 12 gauge shotgun and forget the rifle. I mean you got birds on the ground or wing, all small game, and you can take or fend off large game.
This question is way to easy.
From charlie elk; "You can survive 30 days easy with no food".
I know that food is much lower on the priorities list in a survival situation than water and shelter, but I seriously doubt that surviving for 30 days would be “easy” for anybody.
Your endurance would decline day by day, especially in conditions that require a lot of calories to maintain body heat such as very cold or hot weather. In cold weather your body works harder to maintain your core temperature thus burning more calories. Without food, your body will not be able to maintain your core temperature efficiently. On the other hand, if you don’t eat in very hot weather and only drink water you will lose electrolytes through sweat and death can result.
Another factor to consider is the psychological need for food. Food is comforting and maintaining a positive mental attitude is essential in a survival situation. Food comforts the survivor and facilitates clear thinking, positive and proper decision making.
By the way, I don't think there is a "best" survival gun. A shotgun is mulitrole yet a .22 revolver is reliable, portable and it's easy to carry around fifty or a hundred rounds of long rifle ammo.
I think shotguns are better all around or survival guns. You can shoot different shot for different game or use slugs.
You can survive 30 days easy with no food. Water is another story. More thought should be put in to where and how will you get potable water rather than the gun you carry. Unless I am hunting (in which case that determines the gun) I would rather carry a water filter, billy can, or a piece of clear plastic to make a solar still. Of course a good knife or a multi tool.
haha nice RJ Arena.
when i hike in the back country or go out on long range hunting tip i always use to take a pistol grip moss 500 with an rifled barrel. but that sleeve sounds like something i might try. sometimes i can't carry two firearms when i am hunting.
I was thinking about the Thompson/Center Encore in the .45/.410 for a back pack hand gun. My main resoning is with one barrel you have both the .45 colt for the larger animals and .410 for smaller game and birds. Whats your thoughts on this?
Good call on the drilling Bella. Those things trip me out.
The best survival gun in my opinion is an 1894 Marlin 44 Magnum. You can load light loads for rabbits, squirrels, etc and you can load HOT loads for Moose and Elk. I can hit a deer's vitals out a maximum range of 200 yards with mine and it is plenty powerful and you can carry a crap-load of ammo.
I have a savage 24 with a williams peep. A leather sling holds 2 buckshot 3" shells while an elastic sleeve on the buttstock holds 2 3/4 #4s and #6s. It is a 22 mag over a 20 gauge. Fixed choke. Looking over the peep, I can hit skeet proficiently. This is an excellent weapon for meat.
RJ Arena-
Les Stroud woud have been very pleased that you were taking notes during Survivorman.
Great article and reminder ...
I was considering buying a .32 ACP conversion sleeve for my '06 or .308, but I've heard stories. Bad ones. Is the risk of that thing damaging or getting stuck in your chamber significant? I asked on here once, but no one had any solid answers one way or the other.
I had a Charter Arms AR-7, same gun as the Henry that was reviewed, and it was a .22 hose that would indeed jam (crossstacking usually) and I didn't like the crude peep sight.
I also had a Savage 24 campers companion(.22 over 20 gauge) and I loved that gun. Presently I have Savage 24 in .22 over .410 which has a longer barrel and nicer wood, but that Campers Companion would be my pick for the "survival gun". A Gaugemate 20 to .410 adapter would allow you to use both .410 and 20 gauge shells so you could give a squirrel in a tree a .22, a ptarmigan a whiff of .410 or shoot a deer with a 20 gauge slug or buckshot. Both Savage 24s of mine broke down easily into barrel and stock but the shorter barrel of the Campers Companion was the same length as the stock, both fit into a nice soft case that would attach to a pack frame nicely.
I haven't gotten to check out the Valmet, although I've seen pictures. Then there was the Staggs-Bilt 20 gauge over 30-30 lever action over-n-under that was manufactured in limited numbers back in the 60's, I'd like to hear if anybody out there has experience with either the Valmet or the Staggs-Bilt guns.
Then there is the time honored European Drilling, 3 barrels with 2 shot barrels and a central rifle barrel, but every one of those I ever looked at was too pretty to grab in a "survival" situation.
Only issue I ever had with my Savage over-n-under is that the state wouln't let me hunt deer with it. The rifled barrel disqualifies it for shotgun season, but it is great for rabbits and squirrels!
As far as conversion sleeves go I have several of the Gaugemate shotgun adapters and they are extracted by the ejector for easy removal. Never had a problem with 'em. Hadn't tried any rifle to pistol cartridge adapters yet so I couldn't guess how they'd work.
Mutt - I like the idea.
I figure if you dropped me off in the middle of the wilderness and asked me to survive I'd want more than a .22 cal or a 410. Heck, a 30.06 will do just fine.
a thompson contender with two barrels, a .22 and a large game load barrel.
Trying to argue the best survival weapon is like trying argue the best caliber deer rifle; everyone has there own opinion and there will never be a correct answer. Guns and knife both have their strengths and weaknesses it just depends on your situation. With a knife you can do a lot more than a gun, but if your ruffing it long enough your blade will probably go dull and eventually be useless. The same with a gun you can probably kill a lot more with it, but eventually your going to run out of bullets and then your carrying around dead weight. But if you truly want my opinion anybody who goes walking into the woods without both is a damn fool.
Your mind and any accurate 22 Long rifle and a box of ammo.
Your bain is by far THE BEST survival weapon availible. (Second is a good knife and third is a good rifle.)
Rubbish. This is not a game show. You can't call out for pizza.
The Armalite AR7 is the real deal. Yeah, like I can have a salad bar of loads when I crash land? I'll be really happy if I can walk away from it. Try it. Do a "Les Stroud" for a week. See how you go.
Question: I can build a fire with a steel knife and a mag sparker block in the pissing rain 30 seconds. Can you? For heaven's sake practice when you can.
I think the Savage 24 is a great emergency/survival gun, I have one myself in .22/20gauge, but it's not exactly what I'd use as an emergency backup weapon on a hunting trip given it's size and weight. (It makes a SUPERB squirrel/rabbit gun on small game hunting trips, though...) If it were me in this situation, I'd rather just carry a compact .22 pistol of some sort (where legally permitted) which will put small game in the pot at say 25 yards or so with ease, without adding lots of weight to your pack. And a 50-count box of CCI .22LR ammo doesn't take up much space in your pack.
good gun
If you don't have a gun, then a knife is the best survival tool. I think second best would be a compass because it can help you get out of whatever you are in. If I was stuck with one of the two guns that were tested - I'd take the .22 LR. You can kill anything with a .22 LR - if you are good with it...practice makes perfect. Why own it if you can't use it???
Anyone know anybody who had to use the AR-7 or derivatives for the intended purpose, whether military or civilian? Gun tests are fine but actual survival tales would be better, don't you think?
i agree 100 % with rj arena
Shotguns would be great guys, but they are big and bulky. I kind of think that defeats the purpose of this article.
I would love to have a Drilling, 12x12x7mm you can feed and defend yourself, BUt you need other things too lightweight Poncho for shelter,multitool, matches or bic lighter iodine pills for water and gps signal.
An accurate .22 in the right hands will take down any game animal on the north american continent.
Although a shotgun would be the best all around gun, you couldn't beat a .22 for taking animals and birds on the ground. You could also carry a lot more .22 shells because of their size and weight. I agree that a well-placed .22 will take down most if not all N. American animals.
No clues on chamber inserts? Will they get stuck or damage my chamber? I've heard from some that they will.
i think this is a nifty little gun it fits back into itself and it shoots the cheapest round in the world it isnt the most powerful round in the world but if its a survival aituation you will be gratefulfor anything you can shoot to eat
If I also have to pack the ammo, I'll take a .22 rifle. Next best for portability might be a Single Six in 22Mag/22LR.
well, i take offense.if u actually took the hunter ed course you would know that your supposed to have a small survival kit AND a medikit AND a knife AND a compass on you when you go hunting. Isnt that what the boyscouts require to?????
RJ Arena-
Les Stroud woud have been very pleased that you were taking notes during Survivorman.
nerffodder has a good point!
@ j-johnson17:
A knife is a *far* more valuable survival tool than a gun. Can you do any of the following with your gun: Clean what you just shot, make kindling, strip down and make cordage, help start a fire, signal a rescue plane, sharpen a stick to a spear, make a splint / walking stick / improvised fishing pole, or build a shelter? OK, then a knife is probably ahead of a gun in terms of useful survival weapons.
Moving along the same subject...
In fact, I'd take a whistle before taking a gun. Much better as a signaling device. Come to that, an EPIRB would be a much better "survival weapon" than a gun. Heck, in a lot of places a CELL PHONE will do more for you than any gun could. ;) Oh, but you've got your rifle and didn't take along a powered down cell phone? Please. :)
I'll lightly treat not always being in a survival situation location where firearms are legally permitted. Yes, I'd rather have one of my guns with than lose my life. But I'd much rather rather be rescued in a survival situation than arrested or cited for unlawful possession in a non-survival situation. (Yes, flamers, do your best. But read the end of this.)
I think I remember that, in the "Sierra Nevada" episode of Survivorman, Les Stroud mentioned most successful SARs conclude within 72 hours of their beginning. Again, I'd rather have a gun than die because SAR can't find me. But even more vital to survival is leaving your itinerary for your outing with a trusted friend or relative.
Postscript: No, I am *NOT* anti-gun. I have carried on hikes and day-trips into the Arizona desert - where it was legal to. Guns surely do have a place in survival preparation. I could have just agreed with RJ Arena instead of posting this screed.
Even so, "The Best Survival Weapon," as a firearm, depends upon your the situation you find yourself in. In Elk and Bear country a good .44 or .454 pistol may save your life. In small game country an accurate .22 may save your life much more efficiently. But forethought (and not thinking a gun automatically equals survival) will probably provide better odds. Including when *not* to include one.
I have used a chamber adapter in .32 auto/.308 for several years. I recently replaced mine after the original got lost in a move. I do not know where the original one, which was made of aluminum came from,it was given to me. The replacement, which is stainless steel, came from MCA Sports in Anchorage, Alaska. You can get a blued one for $20 or stainless for seven dollars more. When I replaced the thing, someone asked me how well it shot. At the time, all I could tell him was, "about like a good .22, but it hits harder". Since then, I took mine to a local range on 'Sighting-In Day' and took a box of ammunition with me. With my Rem 788 sighted in at 25 yards, I can cover a .308/165 gr./3 shot group with a quarter 3" high at 100 yards. On the same range, same day, with the cheap 71 gr. .32 ammo, at 25 yards with scope I had a 5-shot dime-sized group on point of aim. At 100 yards, it opened up to the size of an Eisenhower half-dollar and 3" to the right. I have never had an adapter stick, but then, I keep my rifle and chamber clean. On the new adapter, the fired .32 cases stuck at first, but that cleared up after about 50 or 60 rounds and having been cleaned 3 or 4 times. If they stick, just take the case in your hand, reverse it and blow the fired case out. Does that answer your questions?
By the way, I have had a Savage 24-C .22/3" 20 Ga. since the late '70's. It is my favorite "just-out-messing-around" gun. And the knife I carry is actually two, a swiss army knife, and one of the 'pilot survival knives' that was issued to me while I was in the Army.And yes, I have lived 'out in the boonies' for various periods of time. (and I wasn't impressed with the M7, either. Take a handful of fishing gear, instead.)
No one has mentioned the Taurus Judge
I shot one a few weeks ago and it was outstanding. 2 1/2 inch 410 shells and 45 Colt ammo. It will dance some wood blocks at 15 yards or so with #6 shot. Pretty devastating with slugs or buckshot too.
I don't know if I would shoot Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon ammo in it, but any normal 45 colt loads would work great. Maybe some 265 grain lead flat-nose ammo for big game, and the shotgun side for rabbits, squirrels and birds etc.
Another option I have is an old bolt-action 12 gauge. It has a short barrel with a bead sight and some sort of crude notch in the rear for slugs. It doesn't weigh much and can shoot a variety of slugs, buck, bird shot, steel waterfowl etc. It also fires 12 gauge pistol flares. I think I paid $65 for it. I don't shoot too many slugs in it because it really, really hurts. it's very light and very short. Tough to beat the judge though.
AKX
Thanks F&S for enphasizing that Les Stroud is the real deal! I sometimes worry that some kid is gonna get seriously hurt trying to jump down a waterfall in sub zero temp. because he watched TV stuntman Mr. Bear Grills do it!
JHawes said it all!
Although this is a great idea why carry the extra weight? The average person can live without food for a total of 3 weeks,but can only live without water for three days. I don't think many people get lost for 3 weeks.
That .22 is pretty neat. After they work out the bugs I might get me one of them things
You guys are all missing the point. Make a fire. The premise is flawed as you will never find yourself in one of Les Stroud's scenarios. 99.9% of the time, you will have told someone where you are going. Make a fire. After about 3 days, you will have to suck it up and tell yourself you are lost. Make a fire. The S and R team will be looking for you. If you happen to have a .22 with you, you're eating well. Did I mention to make a fire?
the problem with boy scouts (they were mentioned in the article) is that they rely too much on being prepared i highly doubt when they are hunting they have all that gear you wouldnt last long going by their books
I know it's not an original idea, but the brain and a decent sheath knife are best for starters.
I agree with Keith, the Browning and the Papoose are much better firearms. I had the Charter Arms AR7 and when the alloy barrel heated up, the rifle would walk all over the target. It was not a jammer though. I've heard the Henry is a great improvement over the originals but never shot one myself. If you get a chance, see if you can locate the Pathfinder School videos on Youtube. The guy takes a $20 single shot he bought at a pawn shop, then shows you a simple modification to have it shoot 45 Colt and .410. Then his youngest son proceeds to shoot out the X-ring on a target. Then he shows you how to reload the shells (both types) with a hammer, a board and a nail. I just sat with my mouth open. I do like the Ruger convertable 22/22mag. Can anyone say if the Hunter version is really worth the extra money? I think if I really had to feed myself on a semi-regular basis, I'd get a few good traps--from a cabin--or wire snares from a backpack. If my hunting is anything like what its like in "real life," I'd be found as a skeleton with alot of rounds in my pockets.
I agree with Keith, the Browning and the Papoose are much better firearms. I had the Charter Arms AR7 and when the alloy barrel heated up, the rifle would walk all over the target. It was not a jammer though. I've heard the Henry is a great improvement over the originals but never shot one myself. If you get a chance, see if you can locate the Pathfinder School videos on Youtube. The guy takes a $20 single shot he bought at a pawn shop, then shows you a simple modification to have it shoot 45 Colt and .410. Then his youngest son proceeds to shoot out the X-ring on a target. Then he shows you how to reload the shells (both types) with a hammer, a board and a nail. I just sat with my mouth open. I do like the Ruger convertable 22/22mag. Can anyone say if the Hunter version is really worth the extra money? I think if I really had to feed myself on a semi-regular basis, I'd get a few good traps--from a cabin--or wire snares from a backpack. If my hunting is anything like what its like in "real life," I'd be found as a skeleton with alot of rounds in my pockets.
Sorry about the double post server was stuck on the load.
For survival equipment while flying to Alaska I carried a 12 ga. double barrel shotgun. The shot gun was double trigger and could be broken into. My reasoning is that the two barrel together are very stout, you have another barrel if one misfires or damage occurs to one barrel. I carried two boxes of shell. One was light bird shot for small game. The other box had a combination of slugs, buckshot, and #4.
Had an ar7 it was not worth having would rather have and H&R survivor maybe a little heavyer but you have storage in the stock for items and you have a choice of calibers from 45-410 to 223 or 308 which to me would be a better choice for survival.
The other most important thing for survival besides your brain is your instincts and then all you need is a knife,a gun is more of a luxury and really a big help.
I think some of you have missed the point... This article is about "The Best Survival Weapon".
If it was about a specific way to survive, or 1 piece of gear, I'd have to say my choice is either a satillite cell phone or one of those personal rescue beacons like the "ACR".... but that's not what this is about.... its about a weapon....
I personally keep a .38+P in my pocket and enough extra ammo to fill the cylinder twice. My opinion is that "less is more" The less I have to carry while walking in the field, the more mobile I should be. An item like the I'd rather not have to be lugging a large pack around with unnecessary gear. A .22LR pistol should be enough for taking small game for survival as long as the person is proficient with using the weapon.
Thats just my opinion...
i completly agree with you stogie
I enjoyed reading the various comments above. What's the best survival weapon? Starts with your brain, which should already be on board. If you're wearing clothes, you should also have at least one knife in your pocket or on your belt at all times. I happen to always carry something that goes bang when I go out. For concealment this is usually a .380 or a .357 magnum. So what to "carry" when you go out, since you already have some gray matter and a knife? Has anyone seen the S&W model 317 with a 3 inch barrel? Capacity is 8 rds and it weighs 12.5 oz empty. That pistol and a box of 50 rds would make a great "kit" gun in my opinion. That said my favorite pistol to carry when I go into the woods is a Taurus Tracker made of Titanium chambered in .357. It weighs 24 oz empty. Readily available in SS and both revolvers have integral compensators and hold 7 rds. A variety of ammunition is available to suit just about every survival need, to include 180 grain hard cast bullets. I carry an ammo "wallet" with a selection of different ammo, including some .38 special for smaller targets where keeping the meat intact is an issue.
Yes, I had the old AR-7. It shot straight , but always had problems with the jams upon shell ejection. I hear the new model is better. The Papoose is a real nice gun, but bigger and heavier.
Earlier, in my comment above, I neglected to say that the S&W model 317 is a .22 cal long rifle, revolver. Which is why that and 50 rds of .22 cal ammo would make a great kit gun.
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