archer88, after you've spent a liftime supporting your family using your arms shoulders and legs, you'll think twice about your comment big boy.

You nailed it. Good for geese and nothing else. And I don't even use them on geese because I watch my range and take sensible shots. Don't own a gun that can chamber a 3 1/2 inch shell and I don't foresee that changing anytime ever.

To each his own, I say. If you're comfortable with a 3 1/2" shell, use it. The 3 1/2" undeniably extends your killing range for turkeys. I've personally witnessed a mature gobbler drop like a rock at 55 yards using a 3 1/2" No. 4. Would the result have been the same with a 3" or 2 3/4"? I don't know, but I believe what I saw. I weigh 120 lbs soaking wet, and I can and have shot 3 1/2" 12 gauge shells. When I'm shooting at game, I'm too excited to notice the recoil at all. While patterning, I notice it, but it doesn't kill me. I don't shoot 3 1/2" shells out of masochism, I shoot them because I feel more confident in their ability to kill turkeys at 40+ yards. Turkey hunting has been tough around here the past few years, a man's got to give himself every advantage he can.

All in all, choose whatever shell you want and don't pass judgment on those who choose differently. Phil, go on hating the 3 1/2", and I'll go on shooting it--and we can still be friends.

Phil,

I couldn't agree more! 3.5 inch turkey loads rate up there with artillery recoil wise. You don't need all that payload to kill a turkey. I also tire of hearing all the 65 yard turkey kill stories all tied to 3.5 inch guns. They never tell how many run or fly off.

I began my turkey career as a youngster with a Browning Sweet 16, improved cylinder with a highbrass 1 1/8 ounce load of 6's. It was the only shotgun I had. I regularly killed birds to 30 yards with nary a failure. I still try to get birds into that range. My pet turkey gun is an 870 with a deer barrel and rifle sights, I shoot 3 inch Federal Flite Control 5's because they pattern great, not for extra 1/4 inch. Recoil is tolerable and not punishing. My wife shoots an 870 20 gauge with a tite choke and 1 oz of 6's. Patterns like a screen door! No turkeys have complained about that one either. After all dead is dead...

Beekeeper,

Regarding your earlier comment about the wounded Gobbler you shot. Three years ago I called in and shot a 3 yr old Kansas Tom with a bad leg. It looked like a bobcat or something got hold of his leg and just ripped it open. The bare flesh was dried hard as a piece of Jerky. The bird did not favor that leg but I did not eat him. According to the NWTF Turkeys generally have short lives. The 3 year old bird is rare just like a 3.5 year old buck. From the time the egg is layed just about everything in the woods wants to eat it or the bird it makes.
About long shots. I always endeavor to shoot birds close but sometimes circumstance intervenes. Recoil from my SBE has never been a problem and no bird has ever escaped it's lethal charge of heavyshot. Now that Browning BPS 10 guage was another matter. After 1 shot gave me a sore jaw and black and blue shoulder it had to go.

I recall an article some time ago about the danger of detatched retina damage from the big magnum. Haven't seen that brought up lately, is it a concern? I do want to keep my sight.

By the way, if the 3" turkey loads can't harvest the biggest, baddest tom in your woods,it's the hunter that lacks something, sure not the gun! The 3.5 was born in the 80's to deal with steel shot's limitations back then. That was it's purpose. To say you "need" a 3.5 for turkey hunting is just ludicris.

I recall first turkey hunting 40-years ago in SC mountains. No special shotguns. No special loads, no Camo. Did have calls. Sorta underlines how the sport has been taken over by "merchants" selling stuff to greenhorns.

BTW I liked your starting a bird dog article in the new F & S edition. Your editors don't give you folks much space to write. Sure hope F & S word-smiths aren't paid by the word.

C'mon fellas, turkeys are around 20 pounds,the average shot is what 20 yards? 30 tops? I ask why other than propaganda would you feel the need for a 12 gauge in the first place? A well aimed .410,20 or 16 gauge with #4's is all you need for any critter under 60 lbs. I've shot several coons that were at least 30 lbs with a .410 at 30+ yards, all one shot kills with #4 shot. Just like nowdays it seems that you cannot hunt elk unless you're using a .338 or a 300RUM. There have been more elk killed with a.270 and a 30-06 than anything else combined. I mean really, how many turkeys do you have to get to make it break even to buy that 700.00 12 ga.?

if you can take the hit, how can more pellets hurt.

Smoke and noise ... the more the better, How about a black powder 10ga full of 1/8 oz line sinkers ... BaaaaaaRoooooooom. Or .50 Barrett for squirrels :-). Yeah that's the ticket. Where's the $$$ in using a 1920 , breach loadin, external hammer , 2 3/4 12 ga for turkeys? The ol gun would certainly kill the bird but ... a mans gotta have new stuff. Right? It's all a pile a crap ... and the pile is gettin higher every day. I'll stick with my 870 ... got 5 barrels for it ... enuff to cover any target I can think of.

Anyone that has been in the woods for turkeys knows first hand that it is a life and death struggle. Everyone by now knows that turkeys evolved from the Velociraptor of Jurrassic Park fame. Have you seen the size of their talons?

Last year, my hunting buddy and I called in two toms. I took one and he took the other. I was using 3" and he was using 3.5". Both went down at about 30 yards. The one I hit still had enough life left to lob a pine cone at my buddy that hit him in the face. I will absolutely be using a 3.5" this year.

I agree chad, my main shotgun (benelli m2) won't even shot 3 1/2" shells. Now my back up does, and the only reason I put a 3 1/2" in it is to mess with my friends. If you can't do it with a 3", get some more pratice.

And much of the time you're backed up to a tree - ouch!

idduckhntr,
I hear ya man, you do what you have to do though it may not be pleasant.

I feel you should shoot a load that you are comfortable with. And whit that said I dont mean give a kid or a first time turkey hunter a 3.5 and tell him or her to have fun. I shoot a 3.5 and know that it kicks hard but feel its worth the bruise. In WI you probally only get one-4 day tag to hunt a spring bird and weather can be anything from blizzard to dry and hot. And when I do get a chance to get off of work and use my tag I feel better that I am throwing all the lead I can at that bird. My dad shoots a 3 inch but I dont hassel him about it. I grew up shooting at a young age and have been able to learn how to handle recoil. Do I love it, NO. But I feel its a small price to pay for a once a year shot.

Thanks Bourjaily, I am going to try a few of those bigger rifle calibers I have been hesitant to try up until now. I agree with you totally those 3 and 1/2 inch turkey mags are rough. But if I can go all the way up to a .458 Win mag and still feel less thump then I have a whole lot of new calibers I need to try out. Here I come .375 H and H!!!

Having shot everything from 2-3/4 to 3-1/2 inch magnum loads, I can honestly say I've never felt recoil when there was a bird out in front of the barrel, regardless of whether quail, dove, turkey, or geese.
Guess the adrenaline just kicks in.
But, when occasionally firing at cardboard to look at pattern (don't know why, somebody just told me I should) even my 20 gauge skeet loads were felt.
Same thing with rifles. On a bench rest "sighting in" it hurts. With a buck out 50 yards, never feel it.
So, I only shoot when it doesn't hurt anymore.
Browning 20 gauge 3" O/U will handle anything I need to shoot anymore, and I can carry it all day. You can keep the "big guns".

The more is better theory was motivating the pinhead I ran into a few years ago. Was hunting Texas Hill Country whitetails with a .338.

2 3/4 inch works too! I say it's all personal preference.

I dropped my one and only turkey with a 1 oz. load of #7 1/2 birdshot...the big dummy flew over me while I was bunny hunting (PA has a concurrent fall turkey/small game seasons). Went down like a bag of hammers. Some times it's better to be lucky than good. -Bob

I use a 20 for turkey and a 30-30 for deer. I don't shoot at 50 yard turkeys or 500 yard deer, but the ones I do shoot at usually fall down.

Some guys at Federal and mossberg had a Good idea for the 3.5 for geese. Then my guess is that they got tired of the brother-in-law,neighbor(insert your own) wanting to borrow a shot-gun for turkey hunting, so we have the birth of the 3.5 turkey round. Least thats why I bought a box. I still use the 3in. duplex(2x6), Got to love those re-loaders.

"i might not shoot a 3 1/2 inch but my gun sure as hell better" i dont know who im quoting but it doesnt matter really.
i see many meanings about the 3 1/2 inch but here is mine and its based on just a few criterias.. with a 3 1/2 inch u can borrow shells from anyone shootin 12`s withouth having to worry about blowing up your gun, nuff said.. and that the long 12`s work on a higher gas limit can only be a good thing if u use shorter ammo, cos u have a built in safety buffer if the case ever should rupture for whatever reason.. me i have used the same 2 3/4 inch 12 since i was 16 and that gun still shoots so good that my nephew is gonna get it.. he is a fledling hunter and needs a gun that wont punish him and thereby detract from his hunting eperience as a newbie.. but im primarily gonna use 2 3/4 inch in my new gun cos it kills effectively enough for any use ive put it to for more than a decade, as long as i actually hit what im shooting.. so why do i want to be able to shoot the long 12`s?? well i want to be able to load up the gun for anyone who is determined they need to shoot a big magnum rifleload to be a good hunter (and we all know thats bullshit) so sitting them on a bench and let them take good aim and then fire the 3 1/2 inch with a heavy hardkicking load should knock some sense into them and they r gonna land on the conclution that a standard rifle calibre will do fine for them in the future withouth having to argue the pros and cons ad infinitum:D
the only "need" i could think of for shooting the long 12`s in actual life is when the flock of geese is 45 yards overhead and ainth getting closer any time this year, or maybe for downing a deer (legal here) at a distance questionable with a 2 3/4 12ga..
nuff said actually, nobody really needs the long 12`s but if that makes them better hunters then let them have it.. (and the reason the 10ga 3 1/2 inch pounds your shoulder less is pure physics,, they r built heavier and to take the brutal recoil, recoil springs adapted etc..)
now stop being stupid and use more time on the shootingrange and the need for a bigger bang is gonna evaporate.. (i challenge anyone to shoot 500 rounds during a weekend with the 3 1/2 inch fully loaded rounds and have a wank afterwards:P)
peace out..

More is not always better.. Made the same mistake with a whitetail gun. Thought i would be all big and bad getting a 300 win mag.. After i blew apart the first deer i shot i realized more isnt better. Same thing applies here with the turkey loads. I prefer shooting a 20 gauge for turkeys

All I know is that the 3" turkey shells I shoot are as much recoil as I ever want to deal with. I can't imagine what kind of masochist would shoot a flippin 3.5" shell. It's really no different than shooting deer with a .300WSM or like caliber. For some reason many Americans, many of them in the south, tend to think that bigger is better under any circumstance. For example, who the heck needs an X-Heavy rod for a fish that averages just under 2 pounds? No one, but if a Heavy rod is good then an X-Heavy must be better.

I am with you PHil, I have shot 3 birds with 20nguage 3 inch shells and they work just fine. I HATE thae 3 1/2 12 gauge shell

A couple guys I hunted with last year used 3.5" shells, so I purchased 2 boxes of 3.5" turkey loads to give them a try. I'll say this about the shells: I'm 24, healthy, and not a afraid to take a punch, but there is no way I will ever use another 3.5" shell once I finish these. I can't shoot more than three when I'm patterning my shotgun, and even then I feel like I've be in a car wreck. I've shot a 10 gauge NEF Turkey Pardner, and it didn't feel nearly as bad. My 870 and a 3.5" shell is just a recipe for pain.

I had a 870 3.5' and all went well until I shot the 2ounce turkey loads. I shot a couple standing and yeah it kicked like hell but your not shooting volume like at waterfowl. Then I shot leaning up against a tree as you would in the woods and that just sucks. And I enjoy hard kicking loud guns but thats just plain stupid punishment. Those were the first shots I fired that I did not enjoy or look forward to. Now I have given up on the 3.5 all together and gone Italian with a Benelli M2 because life is to dang short to pump a shotgun.

Wow I guess we are all gearing up for turkeys! I own 31/2 inch shells and 3inch shells for my 870 and I end up loading the 31/2 every time because I hunt public ground and very rarely see birds at 30 yards or less. Am I a bad hunter or caller? I don't know but I killed two hens last fall one up close and then hit one at 58 yards with that big load of fives. BUT I goofed on the yardage. I had no idea she was that far away it was a wierd deal that just sort of happened but I was glad I had the bigger load. It took me 2 days to get over the headache. I hate shooting them but I feel more confident on not wounding a bird I misjudged the distance on and that is why I go ahead and get kicked. They put the gobblers down in the spring who hang up at 40 on me also. I have seen a practical use for the duck loads though. The duck guides I hunt with in Mississippi use them after the clients are done shooting to clean up wounded birds that are going out of range. But they will tell you they shoot alot less than most but it sure saves the dogs alot of work. I hate steel more than any gun or shell size I have ever heard of but whats good for the ducks is good for the hunters I suppose but I would love to see an article on what impact the change to steel has made. Just curious.

The load that patterns the best in your gun is the one you should shoot. If that load happens to be 3-1/2's, man up and deal with it. After all, how many turkeys do you shoot per year? Geese may be a different story. Not being a goose hunter, the only time I've personally noticed a difference with a 3-1/2 is while coyote hunting with dogs where you need all the help you can get. The "Dead Coyote" shells that are available are absolutely devastating out to at least 65 yards - Never tried them any farther.

the reason i shoot 3.5 inch shell is because they dont make 4 inch shells. when im hunting turkeys i dont want them to get away.

I've only killed turkeys with a 2-3/4" 12 ga.chambered Rem 1100. The turkeys never noticed a difference. The 3-1/2" belongs with the 500 S&W handgun and the hotdog sized rifle rounds. The inexperienced and impressionable have a propensity for getting fleeced.

Some of the 3.5" and 4" dreams come from being told when in a gunfight, use enough gun. A gunfight is one thing. This is not a fight. They are just birds. I killed a turkey 2 years ago, and only found 1 pellet hit him in the head right behind the eye. Dead. I guess some people like to burn extra powder and enjoy pain.

OK...got in a hurry, typing. Omitted the strategic 'we and 'see'...

Age is a wonderful thing. Dementia, however....

Now you tell me!
I recently bought a new 12 gauge (16 was my prefferance, but I noticed that shells were not as available) double s/s.
With sons encouragement I bought 3 1/2" Mags.
Sighting in the first round almost took the shotgun out of my hands.
Second round did the same thing, even though I was prepared. I'll use up this box on turkeys and buy shorter rounds for ducks and every thing else.

It really comes back to what are you confident shooting. If you think you have to have a cannon to make a kill you may hae too. If you are confident with a 3 or 2 3/4 you will do just as well. The shotgun load does not make the hunter successful, it is skill level that makes a good hunter or a vegetarian.

Del,
Just a little further north.
They're getting so thick the G&P people give you two for the price of one.
Same with deer. Got two this year, one whitetail-one mulie, both within 200 yards of house. Saw dozens without even trying.

To doekiller. A 375HH has the same recoil as a 180 out of a 30.06 with over twice the energy and you will get less meat damage with the 375. dont knock it untill you try it.

Let me ask this are you saying that a 3.5 mag has as much recoil as a 416 ??????

Hey alabamahunter, keep it down home, 'cuz! Rednecks are everywhere. I know 'cause I am one. That being said, if the 3 1/2 trips your trigger, folks, go right ahead. Who needs an excuse to buy another shotgun? Everyone should have a 3.5, or maybe two, just to annoy liberals if for no other reason. If they made a 4", I'd probably buy it too and add 2 pounds of wheel weights to it somewhere. If you build it, they will come. Is it necessary for turkeys? Absolutely not.

As for a shorter 10 ga., the vintage 2 7/8 inch 10 gauge shell has killed more ducks than cancer, but it's hard to find and the vintage doubles chambered for it are not suitable for steel shot. That's O.K. with me, as steel shot is not suitable for killing ducks, but that's opinion as well. Bismuth reloads, anyone? If nothing else, it gives us something to talk about.

Me like big boom

I'll keep the 3.5" shells in my 10 gauge BPS stalker, and the 2.75" and 3" shells (when necessary) for my 12 Gauge Mossberg. The 10 gauge BPS is backbored, a little heavier than a 12 gauge, and the felt recoil is comfortable.
The worst recoil I have ever experienced in a 12 gauge load was some 3" Federal Max load 11/4 ounce slugs. I fired 7 of those slug rounds off of a sandbag rest. The recoil bruised my cheek and shoulder, knocked the screw out of the earpiece of my glasses, and cracked the safety button on the Mossberg (it was the plastic, old style safety button). I gave the rest of them to my brother-in-law, who shared them with another brother-in-law, and after shooting a few rounds in a autoloader they both gave the leftovers back to me. Those slugs have to have one heck of a knockdown punch on deer because they sure do at the back end. BTW I'm 6'1" and 200 lbs and have no recoil issues with my 10 gauge.

I guess the reason I shoot 10 gauge 3.5 inch is the same reason I bench press 400 pounds in the gym - because I can. I never felt the recoil with a bird in front of me.

Gun / Ammo Marketers- pay attention!!

This hunter has absolutely NO need for a 3-1/2 shell that costs three times as much money as a 2-3/4" shell. If I need that much fire power for a bird of any species, I'll buy a plane ticket to Africa and chase rabid Ostriches on the Serengeti!

I think 3.5 inch shells are deplorable . I have heard of turkey hunters using them to kill birds at 50 and even 60 yards out . That's not turkey hunting . The thrill of a turkey hunt is to get a long beard 25 to 30 yards out .Thats honorable turkey hunting . Might as well use a rifle otherwise .

Chaz

I BOUGHT FOUR BOXES OF 3.5 TURKEY WINCHESTER ON SALE FOR 2.50 A BOX ON A CLEARANCE AT WALMART. I GUESS MOST HUNTERS ARE LIKE ME. I'LL TAKE THE POUNDING IF IT'S CHEAP ENOUGH. OTHERWISE I USE 3" BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE EXTRA 1/2 INCH ONLY MAKES IT HURT MORE NOT KILL MORE !!!

i got a tyhree and a half inch ten guage that dont kick as hard as my 870

i shot a four buck shell out of my ten guage at fifty yards and it looked to me like every bb hit the card bored and the bb`s were very close to the middle ,i got a ten guage ithica with a full choke and wouldnt be scared to shoot a turkey 60 yards away with it

idduckhunter,

Your comment posted was: "A 375HH has the same recoil as a 180 out of a 30.06 with over twice the energy and you will get less meat damage with the 375. dont knock it untill you try it."

You are kidding , right? You must be comparing a 6 pound .30-06 to a 15 pound .375 H&H.

Had my choice, I'd rather shoot 20 rounds of 45-70 at 458 Win Mag velocities in a Ruger #3 than one 3 ½!

Get yourself a Remington 870 Max Gobbler with the Spec Knoxx Op stock. It knocks the recoil down enough that even my wife can shoot it. Maybe the 3 1/2 is overkill, but it will reach way out there and crush those big toms.

You guys all spend way too much money on guns. I shoot a single shot new england with 3 1/2 shells, every year one shot one kill. You don't have to worry about recoil when you shoot your gun once a year, clean it and put it away. Gun=about $100 Shells=about $25 Ten years later, ten dead turkeys.

i use 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge shells but not 12 i broke m collarbone with a 3 1/2 when i was 16

If someone was 1000 yards away and they were shooting at me, I wouldn't care if they were using a .17 Mach 2 or a 500 Nitro Express! Y ou could kill a turkey just fine with a 20 gauge 2.5 inch load. Just don't miss.

Funny thing about shotgun shells. depending on how they are loaded and crimped, they can kick like a mule or shove gently. I've shot 20s that had more recoil than 12s, and 12s that had less recoil than 28s. I've also shot 10 ga 3 1/2" that kicked less than the 12 ga 3". Depends on the gun and the loading of the shell.

Me like big boom

I wholeheartedly agree with P.B. I used to own a Browning BPS Stalker 3 1/2" with emphasis on USED to. Got the gun and bought Winchester Turkey Supreme loads in 2 3/4, 3, and 3 1/2" (all #4 shot) and test fired. 3" proved to pattern best and be manageable recoil. 3 1/2 was horrible in both kick and pattern. That is too much lead for a 12 ga barrel. I did kill several turkeys with that gun (and 3" shells), but have since traded it in on a H&R Pardner Turkey 10 gauge. It still kicks like a mule, but the pattern is devastating. I can put up with that as long as it does just slightly more damage to the turkeys than my right shoulder!

i've heard from some people that the 3" shell actualy patterns better than the 3 1/2". still need to test it though.

I went out a couple summers when I was 16 with a new Mossberg 835 and 2 boxes of 3.5 inchers (Fedral 2-1/4 oz). Said' I'll go shoot cans and whatever to get used to it' That's exactly what I did. Now it doesn't faze me too much, I have a little lump on my bicep permanently from the bruising, but after that, now I can shoot anything. Although I had to get over my shell-shock from these, I swear by them. Shot a bird at 55 yards with one.

I like the idea if you can shoot 3.5 inch comfortably, shoot it but if you can't then don't. I tried shooting the 3.5 from a pump for the first time yesterday...WOW, what a KICK! i think i'll try the 3's and see how they pattern!

Jeez, where are you guys hunting?
Had one turkey walk across the backyard last fall while sitting in the kitchen in town drinking coffee. Saw six walking along the street in town while driving from one grocery store to another. Shot one (out of a flock of probably fifty) off a fencepost in a cattle feedyard, another off a barn rooftop. Friends told of seeing a flock of over a hundred while they were driving from one pheasant hunting spot to another.
They're getting to be as bad a menace as deer.
Have had two farmer/ranchers tell me to shoot as many as I can, they do.
(Don't you wish you knew where?)