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Petzal: Our Most Popular Big-Game Rounds

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January 14, 2010

Petzal: Our Most Popular Big-Game Rounds

By David E. Petzal

My thanks to John Blauvelt for this one.

Here’s a list of the most commonly used North American big-game cartridges, compiled over the past three years by Boone and Crockett. These loads were used by hunters who entered trophies in the B and C listing. I’ve entered more or less intelligent comments of my own after each one.

1. .300 magnum—18 percent (This is all .300 magnums, and is not a surprise.)

2. Bow/crossbow—16 percent (This a surprise.)

3. .270—12 percent (Well deserved. Still one of the very best big game loads around.)

4. .30/06—11 percent. (Huh? WTF? Fourth?)

5. 7mm magnum (Another surprise. I’d have thought it would place higher.)

6. Muzzleloader/shotgun—10 percent (A modern muzzleloader bears little resemblance to what Jim Bridger or David Crockett carried.)

7. 6mm—3 percent (I think there are better light-kicking big-game rounds, but what do I know?)

8. .338 magnum—3 percent (The best all-around NA big game cartridge. Nice to see it on the list, but it should be higher.)

9. .257—2 percent (As a .257 Roberts or .25/06, much better than the 6mms.)

10. .30/30—2 percent (What can I say? It still works.)

11. .308—2 percent (Another WTF? I think if you surveyed a much broader base of hunters this would place much higher.)

12. .375 magnum—2 percent (Yes, it’s a cannon, but it’s an effective one.)

Everything else—8 percent.

Have at it.

Comments (141)

Top Rated
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from Greenhead wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would guess that is not a survey or average hunters, but rather hunters who enter game into B&C. Hardly representative. I would think in a broader survey, the .308 and .30-06 would rank much higher thanks to all the guys who just want to fill the freezer each fall.

+7 Good Comment? | | Report
from ejunk wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

out of curiosity, why are you surprised by the bow/crossbow placement? I have zero empirical evidence, but in my experience a greater proportion of archery only hunters veer towards trophy hunting than do gun only hunters.

yrs-
Evan!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mjenkins1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

30-06 i thought would have been top two. But how about the 6mm? like as in the .243win? Come on now, give it a little more credit Dave. Also that bow/crossbow really surprised me.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Greenhead I could not agree more, I know a lot of meat and potato hunters that are not concerned with trophies, rather bringing home meat for the freezer. my informal poll says; .30-06, .308, .25-06 are the top 3, with one hunter that likes to "reach out and touch" pronghorn with his magnums.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from babsfish4life wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I think that they main factor on this list is that most people that are really trying to get into the B&C need the antlers more than the meat. I think that is why the 300 mag is #1, and I think that bowhunting records are submitted more often since it is gaining in popularity and more bow opportunity. It is a great list but I think that understanding that it isn't "the top hunting rounds" for the general public is important.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tony C. wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

It's not going to make anyone's list, but I've been doing some hunting with a 7mm-08 lately and I just think it's terrific. My gun is the Ruger M77 Compact, a short little stubby thing that rides great in a truck and is real handy in the brush or in a tight treestand.

The lack of recoil is what I most enjoy. I shot a deer the other day. There was no recoil and I actually watched through the scope as the deer absolutely crumbled in its tracks.

I also own a .300 Win Mag and a 30-06, but the 7mm-08 is what I find myself reaching for as I go out the door. I bought it for my kids to hunt deer with, but I use it way more than they do. I'll probably carry it instead of the .300 on my next elk hunt.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

These are all good rounds, Dave. Your own list would look little different than this one (in fact except for the 7mm Rem., you have all these rounds in the cartridge guide you wrote a couple of years ago). .300 Magnums are a little heavy for deer and pronghorn, but about right for everything else, so them being #1 is probably about right.

I think Greenhead nailed it first man out of the blocks. It would seem to me that a trophy hunter will be more likely to overgun himself to more surely bag critters which did not live long enough to grow those big antlers/horns/skulls by being stupid, and will NOT be standing broadside in a clearing at 100 yards when he gets his shot.

This is just guessing, though. I can't speak from experience how a trophy hunter thinks. I'm ashamed to admit I'll shoot anything legal; 'if it's brown, it's down.' Beggars can't be choosers.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from PbHead wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No surprise on the high standing of the "primitive" bows, crossbows, shotguns and blackpowder weapons. Special seasons, early seasons and longer seasons create more opportunity. Also today's rifled slug gun with modern optics is a long way from Uncle Bud's High Standard pump.

I wonder how many "Book" trophies are taken incidentally?

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Teodoro wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I know in-line muzzleloaders are a far cry from what Boone was toting, but how do the flintlocks used in (for example) late season in PA compare?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Slappy wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The 300 and 7mm mags make a total mess out of deer and a 6mm as a big game round- WFT. The people in this survey were hunting for trophies- so they probably care more about range than a practical round. I'd guess the 30 06 would easily come in first in a broader survey, but I wouldn't tade my 308 for anything on the list.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jjas wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I'm not surprised that bows are #2. With sprawl putting an end to gun hunting in more areas every year, it's bow or nothing.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Archery is number two for the simple fact archery seasons are much longer than gun seasons. I would be curious to know how many B&C animals are from public or private land.

Living in Ohio I would have guess archery to be number 1.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would have guessed that the combined category of muzzleloader/shotgun would have been slightly higher - not because of the effectiveness of the round but because of all the states that only permit the use of shotgun or muzzleloader.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from hnestle wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

In a pool of all hunters not just those in the BC I would have to say the top two would be .270 and 30-06.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from JD wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Agreed,

The numbers are skewed towards more "elegant" calibers, not a cross section of all deer hunters. Interesting but not practical.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I suppose I'm surprised in that I thought B&C was for firearms and P&Y was for archery. But then I'm not a trophy hunter so what do I know. I would have thought the .308 Win would have made the top 5 even with bows included. I have no use for 6mm cartridges and am surprised that the .257's didn't place higher given all the hooplah given to them on this blog.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

.270 over .30-06 - bet that is making some jaws drop. lol

Does B&C put limits on bow let-off like P&C? If so, perhaps some trophies that are ineligible for P&C are eligible for B&C.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

You have hit a nerve with B&C records claiming our data set, which we strive to create a scientifically sound record of the best specimens of big game in North America, is biased by trophy hunting mentality. Both the Director and Assistant Director of the records program are trained and experienced wildlife biologists working for a diverse group of wildlife management employers at the private, state, and federal level before coming to work for B&C. Below you will find our two rebuttals.

+7 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

http://www.booneandcrockettclub.com/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID...

Here is the full press release with top choices by category.
I would argue that the record book is more of a snapshot of average hunters than you would assume, we are in the process of pulling out youth hunters who were 16 or under when the took their trophy in the last three years for recognition and all of these are included in this caliber list, they made up roughly 6% of the sample. Given, this is just a snapshot, not all entries include weapon data, but I would argue, since I talk to the hunters and compiled this list, that it is a representative snapshot. The majority of our entries are average hunters who have a once in a lifetime opportunity and convert.
Also, many bow enteries only go in Pope and Young Records so I believe bow numbers may be a bit low(yes we accept bow entries).
Finally the lack of 25/06 entries really surprised me as well, it is a great light caliber and it doesn't appear nearly as many people are using them as I would expect.
This list is being expanded to get a more precise picture of weapon choice in the future, so this data will only get better as time goes.

Justin Spring
Assistant Director
Big Game Records

+10 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I have worked for Boone and Crockett Club’s records program since 1976 and there are some incorrect stereotypical assumptions being made about the caliber data that B&C recently published, as well as the type of hunters entering trophies in B&C. From the comments posted, it appears that some hunters think only so called trophy hunters enter trophies in B&C. While there are no doubt serious trophy hunters doing so, nothing could be further from the truth. I have found over the years that the majority of hunters entering trophies in B&C are your average hunter who actually “stumbled” on a B&C trophy, especially whitetail deer. Many hunters take a B&C the first time they go hunting, and many other hunters take a B&C trophy after hunting a lifetime. Also, no less than 75 children, 16-years-old and younger, have entered a trophy in B&C in the last three years. Six percent of the sample size used for our caliber report was children who can hardly be considered trophy hunters. Given a choice, I have found that many of the so-called meat hunters will pick a buck over a doe, and most hunters will pick a larger buck if given a choice. That hardly makes them a trophy hunter. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. If the data is skewed, it’s because there are so many caliber choices today that are being hyped in the outdoor press that the average hunter doesn’t fully understand that bigger isn’t necessarily better. For example, back in the 1950s the .300 Savage was considered a great caliber for moose. Also, the archery figures are skewed lower because most hunters, including many bowhunters do not enter their trophy in B&C because they don’t know that B&C accepts animals harvested with archery tackle and/or because of a deliberate decision to only enter their trophy in P&Y.

Jack Reneau
Director, Big Game Records
Boone and Crockett Club
250 Station Dr.
Missoula, MT 59801
406/542-1888, ext. 205

+9 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

David, I know if I'd said anything disputing the lineup I'd be preaching to the choir also!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I wonder what sources was used to come up with this line up?

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Walt Smith wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wow I would have believed that the AR calibers would have been in there , with so many hunters switching over to the AR platform the .223 and 6,8spc should have been in there-NOT-He He Ha Ha!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

A few question that are coming up are good and I will take the time to answer them to the best of my ability later this afternoon/evening when I get home. Direct them to Justin on here and I will get to them as I get a chance in regard to entry requirements, or the compilation of my list.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Not P&C - meant P&Y (Pope & Young) - trying to do too many things at once.

Jack - Thank you for your insights. Does B&C set limits for bow let-off?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from KJ wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

For years a lot of gun writers have been boasting about their magnums, and a lot of readers bought into that, so it doesn't surprise me that the .300 mags are #1 and the 7mm mags are #5. But really - a .300 mag is just a loud, hard-kicking .30-06, and the 7 mags are just loud, hard-kicking .270s. This survey doesn't indicate worthiness, just use by people entering in the B&C books. You don't need magnums - bow entries were #2! I'm really surprised the 6mm came in higher than the .308.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

It's amusing me that a trophy recording service is upset at the implication that their stats might be skewed towards people who want their trophy recorded. That would seem to be self evident regardless of the background and intent of it's directors.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

My apologies "its directors."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hengst wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Stats of trophy hunter. A more realistic and honest answer would be by putting a poll right here on F&S. Ya'll have the best demographics a person could ask for when assembling data...put it to good use. I bet everyones pet caliber (but not mine) the 30.06 would score higher then...but bowhunting is gaining alot of momentum

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from hengst wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

btw 6% ok fine what about the other 94%

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

So let's see what the numbers are when you take all the Kids 16 and under out of the mix. Also what would it look like if you took out all the entries 18 years old and younger? Would bet that the 6mm/.243 would drop way down. I don't think it would matter for the .257's.

My unscientific survey of all the N0-$h1t deer and elk hunters that I know will tell you that .300 mags, 7mm Mags, .30-06, .270's of all flavors, and .308 Win/.300 Savage dominate the picture. Those of us who are really in the know will throw in a .35 Whelen and .338-06 or two into the mix. LOL (I'm just kidding about the "in the know part, so don't flame me!)

Our hunt group has piled up the deer and elk the past 5 or 6 years and not a B&C among them, but some real nice wall hangers none the less. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder anyhow.

+7 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B&C is definitely not the exclusive domain of the well heeled. I know 3 or 4 good old boys from down my way that are just hard core hunters with well worn heels that have bucks in the book.

Their favorite firearm, "Seb'um Mag" of course. That is 7 mm Remington Magnum to you folks from north of the Mason/Dixon... I too an surprised that the 7 Mag is not higher on the list.

Muzzleloader/Shotgun/Archery doesn't surprise me at all. As others have pointed out it is simply the availability of special draw hunts/longer seasons/archery only/shotgun only/muzzleloader only seasons becoming more prevalent.

I also thought the Quarter Bore Clan would finish higher as well.

I'm curious, what is the number of Whitetail entries vs. entries for other species? I'll bet it is out of proportion...?

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Ah-ha!

Read the link furnished by the B and C Records folks and that tells the Paul Harvey "Rest of the Story!

http://www.booneandcrockettclub.com/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID...

The .300 and 7mm magnums dominate the big Cervids and the '06 and .270 come into the mix with the small deer. Statistics can be and often are, in other words, lies and damn lies!

Let's get a good argument stirred up! That's where the truth come out!

Best regards,
WMH

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Cbass wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Overkill or no, .300 magnums individually would probably outdo neither the .270 nor the '06. Consider: the 300 Weatherby, 300 H&H, 300 WSM, 300 Winchester, Remington SAUM and Ultra Mags and possibly the .30-378, .300 Dakota and both Lazzeroni long and short mags all being lumped in. Wow. That's a choice or two, anyway.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would bet that there are very few .300 Remington SAUM, Dakota's, and Lazzeroni's in the pile. Know anyone who owns one? I don't.

There is not much differnce in the overall on-game performance of those big magnums anyway, IMHO.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I have questions.

#1 - Why does "B & C Records" feel such a need to be sooo defensive?

#2 - The real data, please. How many "B&C" 'racks' were taken at for-pay high fence ranch hunting operations? How many on public land?

#3 - Out of those taken, how many 'repeat customers' do you have? Does this suggest they are no-$#!+ hunters or that they have the $$$ to hunt places where the deck (odds)are more stacked in their favor for 'harvesting' such sized racks, er, I mean deer?

I'm just asking questions. I'm not inferring answers. Sounds like to me if you have so much data, you (not Dave, but B&C) could be more forthcoming with us here. And I'm not even mad that my 7 mag is low in the outcome of calibers used. I'm like others; I'd have bet the farm that 30/06 and .308 would be a lot higher, therefore my other questions.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Happy Myles wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wow, what a fire storm . Let the dust settle and Jack Reneau Director of Records, Boone & Crockett will explain these questions. He is a class act and will answer our questions
Why is anyone surprised about bow hunting being high on the list? Longer seasons, hunt during rut, less hunters disturbing animals and more interest in B & C/P &Y records. I hunt with a bow in areas where big animals are available. Must state, I have never entered a trophy in any book or contest. Yes, have taken many that would qualify

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To me this list is not a surprise based on BC record entries. Now, I think we need to look at this 30.06 "following" myth. Not saying the old .06 isn't popular, but as WA mentioned if I looked at our hunting camp three of us OWN a 30.06, but we hunt with a couple of different calibers, as well. I would say the .300 mags are taking the lead over the odd-6 in many places whether that extra power is necessary to kill an amimal is another story.
I still believe the .270 makes a better all around big game round over the .06; less recoil, flatter(by alittle)shooting, and can handle any deer sized animal just easily. Sure, the heavier bullets of the .06 can handle Elk better, but if I wan to take an Elk, I'll take my .35 Whelen or 45/70 to do that task.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To the Boone and Crockett directors:

Thanks for your responses. I'm satisfied.

The reason so many of us are seemingly debating you is that this is the first time in our lives we've seen any kind of a cartridge popularity list that didn't go

1. .30-06
2. .270
3. 7mm Magnum
4. .308

... and we want to know what happened!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Easy 'Neck,

I can feel the heat all the way up here in the Piedmont! On second thought it feels pretty good considering the weather lately, keep 'a stewin'!

I'd like to point out for one and all that B&C nor P&Y will accept animals killed from High Fenced areas, or at least the last time I read the rules they didn't.

I'd still like to have my question answered concerning the number of whitetails vs. the number of other species entered in the book.

WMH, I'd bet a good many of the .300 mags will fall into the bear category as well.

Dave, you need to really stir the pot more often!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from bthomasb1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WOW thtas a lot of nerves being hit for the record WA Mtn Hunter i know 4 people who own 300 saum's and 2 who own lazzeroni's. not being smart just saying,and all 6 guns are owned by differant people and 2 dont hunt just shoot for fun

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry to sound so wound up, y'all. Usually my BS detector starts going off when two different people have to offer multiple explanations (no offense to Mr.Renau). If Happy is speaking up for you, you must be at least moderately tolerable. I'll hold out for your response to my, ahem, stewing...

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thanks 'Neck,

Like I said, I'm enjoying the warmth which is radiating north! LOL! Here's to a spirited discussion that is not entirely 30/06 vs. 270!

Cheers!

Everyone

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would be curious to know how the game breaks down? The high percentage of .300s doesn't surprise me if you have a lot of sheep and antelope records, and elk. Bigger is better, right? Not that you need bigger for the speed goats, everybody just thinks you have to shoot 400 yds. to kill one. If it was strictly deer and elk, the '06 and .270 and even the quarter bores would have placed higher. Throw in the bears, and the low placement of the .338 and .375 makes me wonder what people use for bears. Do longer seasons for archery have that big an impact? Guess so.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

OK,
1. Boone and Crockett entry requirements in relation to archery are not subject to the same rules as Pope and Young in regards to Let-Off. Since we are not weapon specific, as long as the let-off is legal in the state, it is acceptable. The same goes for knocks, all sights are allowed as long as they don't incorporate light intensifying devices(night vision). Crossbows count as well
2. None of our trophies come from high fence pay to play ranches, our fair chase guidelines prohibit animals confined by artificial barriers including escape proof fencing enclosures
3. I cannot definitively tell you how many public versus private land trophies are entered but would assume that it varies in regard to the amount of public land available in the state in question
4. The 6 percent of trophies in reference to youth seemed appropriate since if you assume the hunting age is 12-60, I know that it can be lower or higher but assume this is "average" which is what all this comes down too, averages. ten percent of this range is 4.8 years the said range is approximately 4 years and accounts for 6% of entries leading us to assume that spread across the data set, the trophies are equally spaced with the one guaranteed age range(12-16 which I just compiled) I can summarize and therefore can partially rule out the theory of just trophy hunters entering animals in B&C. Obviously when i do this again I will supply an age demographic for further scrutiny. In relation to taking out the kids and 6mm/.243 dropping I don't think it would effect numbers since the youth make up an expected portion of the entries.
5. The reason that I put forth this data is, truth be told, I was curious and spit out a data base query which revealed that the 06 was not number one, Mr. Petzel I grew up reading your contributions to the shooting public and can probably trace the fact that I shot a .338 Mag until I was around 20 to your writing and was just plain curious as to the breakdown.
6. YOU CAN ALL REST ASSURED THAT THIS IS NOT THE LAST ARTICLE THAT I/WE WILL PUT OUT FOR THE PUBLIC TO VIEW. I am getting my feet wet and understand what I can and can't do with entry info and many factors you have touched on will hopefully be addressed as i modify data entry to be more conductive to decisive conclusions in regard to caliber choice.
6. The argument about all the possible .300 mags was my concern with this data we put out, I can say that the Lazzeroni's are not included nor "Dakota's, H&H's and the other less common but present .300's those are all in the 8% other category. The ultra's, WSM's, and Win. Mags, and a Weatherby or two are what make up this category, sorry to the 300 Savage fans as well, I did not include those as a .300 mag."

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
Thanks for the "rest of the story." I didn't even realize that cougars, musk ox, and bison were on the B&C
trophy list.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Other notable fact, WHITETAILS MAKE UP 25% of the entries considered and the .300 is not in the top 4 but still comes out ahead.
While I can't reply as quick as I would like, keep the questions coming and I will do my best to answer

Justin E. Spring
Assistant Director
Big Game Records

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Roost323 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

good article

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry I missed a few,
The defensiveness comes from the fact that those in the records department, Jack and I, take great offensive to a comment suggesting we aren't correctly portraying what in Jack's case has been a distinguished career working for the club and trying to keep the records as representative as possible since that is why it was started, we are a conservation organization that keeps records not a records keeping organization that cares about conservation. The records began as a way to record the best species present on the North American continent fearing they, and they were, going extinct. Wildlife management worked and we indirectly became the party who scores and recognizes world records, that is not why B&C was started nor why it continues. Repeat customers are the exception, not the norm.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Justin,

Thanks for your hard work and number crunching ability! Would you mind breaking out the entries by percentage and species for us sometime. Just curious...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Most lists(or polls) are bogus. This one included.
1. .30-06 no question
2. .30-30 inadequate? try telling all those ol'timers
3. .270 a classic versatile and beloved round
4. .300 mag(s)
5. .308

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B and C Records
Thank you for the valuable information and taking the time to answer our questions.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

BEEKEEPER
If you go to the Boone and Crockett Club Website www.booneandcrockettclub.com the article on the top gives the top three of each category. As I said earlier, the options for recording entries has been expanded and from here out I can tell you how many WSM, H&H, and Ultra's have been entered starting with all entries received after 1/1/2010 other than the top three I don't know as the other calibers are fairly represented. Not perfect but the best we could do with what we had.
For the non-common fans the .35 Whelen, 30-378, 338-06, 260's, .280's, 340 Weatherby etc. now have their own category.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B AND C RECORDS

That non-common category mentioned in your post above contains some of my favorite elk cartridges! Rock on!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

@ bthomasb1

I'm glad that someone owns those rifles chambered in those cartridges. Someone needs to save them from extinction!

FWIW, I'll keep using my very appropriate 35 Whelen, .30-06, and 7mm Weatherby to do my elk killing chores. The rest of the hunting world may certainly choose to do otherwise. I don't depend on others to sleep well.

LOL

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from AlaskanExile wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Great discussion guys! Now if you want to really learn something, go to B&C's website and look up their rules on "Fair Chase" and see what it says. It will be an education for some of you who think of yourselves as the example of an "ethical hunter". If it's not you it's someone you know.
I had to use B&C's rules printed from their website a few years back to "correct" the ways of an older gentleman who was new to hunting and bragging about his hunting "success". He was wounding game at ranges well beyond his ability or equipment, and having to chase the animal for miles.
Reading the standards in black and white was enough to cause him to see the error of his ways. He had no idea, what "Fair Chase" really means, and I bet some of you don't either. B&C/SCI/P&Y don't allow any trophies that aren't taken under their standards of Fair Chase.
Just my two-cents
AKX

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from kolbster wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

here is top list for the average hunter these arent really in order.
30-06
30-30
270 win
308 win
7mm mag
243
300 mag
bow
ML/shotgun
and the last spot is up for grabs
maybe 6mm or 257, 280

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from dickgun wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Dave,
Obviously a great post judging by the number of responses before I even reviewed it! Now, to be a little more specific, we need to have surveys which separate the categories into sensible groupings. What are bow and arrow doing in a gun survey - but it was not a gun survey - I guess. What are little guns doing in survey with big guns. Appropriate calibers depend on what you are going to hunt. If all you hunt is white tail deer in close forest you do not need much gun. That gun would not fit into a group that would represent hunting BIG BEAR. Nor would it fit into a group that would hunt mountain game where 400 yds is a taken for granted shot. But it is, without doubt, a great gun for what it does well.
So, interesting survey, but not too representative of anything, in my opinion.

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from Carney wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Well. I'm finally in a "majority group". 300 win mag suits me!

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I know P&Y is the 'exclusive' record book, altho like most, I started not knowing B&C also listed game taken with archery.

I really don't know what the fuzz is all about. Maybe the .30-06 shooters just don't submit a B&C that much. And if you're a 7mag or .30-06 fan, you can always cite sales records of both ammo and reloading dies to prove your point.

getting off the pulpit now.

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from elmer f. wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

well, from this it apears that trophy hunters do not want to chase their deer after they shoot ti. i can not imagine that the 30-06 places 4th, while the 300 magnum is first (and i own & deer hunt w / a 300 mag)! i would have thought that two sticks and a string would have been in the top five, but 2nd sure suprises me. i would like to see a real poll of what everybody out there really hunts with, because i do not believe this to be a true average slice of the pie. so, Dave, set up such a poll, post a link to it on here, and lets see what the real truth is. 375 magnum also suprises me. i thought that i would have been the only one that would seriously consider using a rhino gun on a whitetail deer!

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from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B and C Records,

Thanks for responding to all the questions. I only hear about B&C when it comes to individual trophy animals. In one of your posts, you stress the conservation angle of the organization - it would be nice to hear more about that. I would imagine you have something on that on your website - and I intend to look, but if you have a link to information about your conservation work, it would be appreciated.

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from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

If you follow the link posted by WA Mtnhunter, you will find a species-specific listing - which is lot more informative than the overall listing.

The top 3 for whitetail deer: 1.) Bow/crossbow, 2.) Muzzleloader/shotgun, 3.) .270

Which I think says more about hunting regulations than the relative merits or hunter's fondness for any particular caliber.

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from bradpareis wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thank God some folks still get B&C big game with a 30-30, now I won't have to hide mine in a case and take it out to the truck under the cover of darkness....

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from ricefarm wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sitting in the midwest in the heart of whitetail country I can tell you in my part of the world the number of hours bowhunters spend in their stands dwarfs what shooters do, even though in terms of pure numbers there are more guys going out for the shooting weekends. Virtually all of the bowhunters I know are strictly trophy hunters.
Trying to predict what weapon or caliber is being used around the country on a variety of species based on what goes on in your part of the world is about like assuming the weather in your backyard is representative of the whole country. However any article that gets this many people fired up has to get an A+. Good work, Dave.
To the B&C people, if you think you are taking heat you need to read the comments section here more often. This passes for no more than a polite discussion in this group.

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from ejunk wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Glad to see someone from B&C arriving to talk about the subject, but surprised at the defensiveness of the initial responses. relax. it's just the friggin' internet. subsequent (less defensive) responses were interesting and educational!

yrs-
Evan!

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from Gritz wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I was not surprised at all with the results of the numbers. However, I might not know enough about B&C because I would never submit and would not even know how to if I wanted to, but I am curious that no handgun cal's showed up. I have been seeing many more .44's walking around the woods these days. I guess not enough to make it into a top 10. Also, I was told but did not believe that I would feel this way, but I am an avid ml hunter and it hurt a little that we are all lumped into the same big category (with shotguns no less). To hunt with a flintlock, patch and ball should not be put into the same category as a saboted, 3.5 inch magnum 12 gauge or a 150 gr magnum inline that can group sub moa at 200 yards. Strange. I would never have thought of myself as a purist until I saw these things grouped together.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Rice Farm nailed it. This was a polite discussion compared to many on this blog! While there are those who have facts to back up their lists, favorites, best this or that, etc., there are a multitude of "regulars", dare I say it, that don't know $h1t from Shinola and are all too willing to spread their brand of fertilizer.

Lists, polls, and votes really always make sense and are always based on truth, justice, and the American way. Just like the 2008 Presidential Election, huh?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No surprise on the .300 mag beating the 30-06. Hunters may have devoted themselves exclusively in times past to old classics such as the '06, but not anymore. The new generation of hunters is hunting smarter with better equipment, which includes choosing rounds such as the 7mm mag or the .300 mag over the 30-06. Yes, the 30-06 is a classic, no one is debating that...but it no longer holds unquestioned authority.

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from Tom-Tom wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Justin--

If you could access data reporting the total sale of ammunition by caliber from the three largest manufacturering companies, then extract the data for the most recognized calibers used for whitetail deer and compare the percentages of sales for each caliber to your list of percentages of calibers of B&C entrants, that may be a valid comparison. As stated by many previously, even if your end result would show that "X" caliber accounts for 26.89% of total sales and also accounts for 25-30% of total B&C entries, I doubt that many will convert from our personal favorite(s). Your work so far is very interesting and stimulating.

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from davidpetzal wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I am very disappointed that no one has jumped on my comment about the .338 being the best all-around NA big-game cartridge. (Unless I missed a comment.) Kindly straighten up everyone.

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from JohnR wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Double ditto ricefarm! That was a very insightful statement. LOL, WA Mtnhunter I haven't heard that expression ($h1t from Shinola )in quite a while.
Add to the equation people like me who will hunt with my M1A in .308 most of the deer season, and the one or two days I hunt with my Model 70 in 30-06 I harvest a deer. Yet I would have to report that I hunted mostly with the .308. I am sure there are more of us here who hunt with different caliber rifles during one hunting season.

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from JohnR wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Cartridge Rifle Recoil Recoil
Weight Energy Velocity

.338 Marlin Express (200 at 2400) 8.0 16.2 11.4
.338-57 O'Connor (200 at 2400) 8.0 19.2 12.4
.338 Federal (210 at 2630) 8.0 21.9 13.3
.338-06 A-Square (250 at 2500) 8.5 28.2 14.6
.338 Win. Mag. (200 at 2950) 8.5 32.8 15.8
.338 Win. Mag. (250 at 2700) 9.0 33.1 15.4

Dave, I would agree that the last three .338's above would be the best all around American shoulder thumper
;-)!
For Comparison Sake

Cartridge Rifle Recoil Recoil
Weight Energy Velocity

30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7
.300 Sav. (150 at 2630) 7.5 14.8 n/a
.307 Win. (150 at 2600) 7.5 13.7 10.9
.308 Marlin Express (160 at 2660) 8.0 13.4 10.4
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 12.8

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from wingshooter54 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wonder what the chances of the 300 magnum being no 1 would be if Roy Weatherby had kept selling insurance instead of being a gun nut?
Not having any listings in Boone & Crockett, I am hardly an expert; but the 7x57 ranks no 1 with me. Everything I have shot with it has dropped to one shot. Usually in their tracks; a few have traveled as far as 15-20 ft.

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from JohnR wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Oops! Never mind, my chart didn't post like I had set it up!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

David

We just didn't want to rile you! The .338 Win Mag IS probably the best big game cartridge around for those who like 12 pound rifles or don't mind the noise generated by the sound of their shoulder blades clapping together. I bought one in 1989 because I thought it was the Alpha and Omega of elk rifles. After that Winchester M70 kicked the stuffing out of me trying to get it zero'd at the range, I punted to the .35 Whelen and have never regretted it. You can't kill 'em deader than dead. The .35W, 7mm Weatherby, and .30-06 are about the upper limit for me.

What say you?

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from luckytexan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Great article, lots of interesting discussion, but I don't understand the fuss about a particular cartridge not making the top 10 list. This list details mostly calibers, not particular cartridges, with only three exceptions: .30/06, the 30-30, and possibly the .308. (The list as published here doesn't specify .308 Win, but it doesn't include the .30/06 and .30-30, nor the .300 Savage based on Mr. Reneau's comments here.)

There's a lot of different .30 caliber magnum cartridges, so it doesn't surprise me that all .30 cal mags combined come out on top. What is really surprising is how well the .30/06 and the .30-30 stand up to other combined calibers.

What I would find interesting is to parse the raw data two separate ways: One list arranged solely by caliber, and another list arranged solely by cartridge. Just how many of those .270's were the .270 Win? Are the Weatherby Mag and WSM cartridges lumped in there as well?

Right now, the only broad conclusion that we can be sure of from the list as published here is that 86% of B&C trophies are taken with a firearm, and not one of the calibers listed has an overwhelming presence. Personally, I love the variety. It would be a poor world with only one kind of cartridge or caliber.

luckytexan

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Just scanned this one ,. and WOW,. who would have thought we as a (group ) demographic ) would give much of a rats behind ,. makes me laugh,
yet not disrespectfuly . (so thank you one and all )
What occurs to me is that we the (hunting shooting population) have really changed ( a lot) as a group in that past decade or two.

Many golden sunsets ago Jack Oconner
pontificated( something he was very good at ) on the magic 270,.. as did others of his time ( Jon Jobson) - Sports Afied circ 1950's and 60's etc etc.

Yet seldom did we hear of shots exceeding 300yds

Except of course by Cactus Jack ( and his cronies) as he / they poured fire down a canyon or sendero (sp?) after a giant bounding mule deer (at 400 yds and counting) occasionly accompanied by back up fire from his wife ( Elinor-?) using a custom mauser 7 x57 with 16o grain bullets behind some magical weight of a certain powder.
(which I should say is a load I personally believe to have certian magical elements )

Other than that a long shot, for most of us .. was 250 yds.Hell 200 was a long poke.

Having shot roughly a semi load of white tails ( 110 +) I can and will say the longest shot I ever made was a fluke .
It was a paced off diatnce of 300 (just over but not much ) yards. With a whomped up 8x57 with open sightes. Only reason I took the shot was I knew almost exactly how far it was ( before range finders ) ,.there was utterly no wind and my brother who was standing next to me with a 35 Rem said
"Yo if thats 300 +/- do you know the hold over ?
I allowed as how I thought I did . at which point he said "Well then why dont you shoot that guy" ( deer)
Said "guy" ( deer) having stepped from the edge of a woods and just stood there ,for a long time,.. looking around.
"That guy" ( the deer) stood there too long.

Got a rest against a tree,. steadied up, and let one go.
One shot kill a little high and a little back,from the shoulder ,
The deer took a couple steps .looked around some more ,.. then over and out.
But the other 100 + for the most part fell at distances under 100 yds and truth be told most within what I guess to be 60- 70 yds.

I say all that as refernce point ,.
With the advent of the more technical approach to shooting / hunting ,.improved powder optics and projectiles IE: improved accuracy ,..
effective ranges for (the average AJ hunter dude) got longer.
Due in my humble opinon primarily to lower tragectory / and higher energy,.
Guys could did and do kill things with greater consistency at greater ranges.
But it took more powder and more noise to do it.

With great emphases by gun manufactures and writers ,..
on smoke poles that will shoot with great precision into the next zip code it is no suprise to me the big 30's
are used in bigger country for longer shooting .
It would also be no suprise that a fair amount of wounding occurs due to the avrage ( macho wanna be) pilgrim who has developed flinch of epic proportion.

My stadard today is 200yds,. if it decernably further i start hunting again (to get closer) ,.. once within that range I will shoot,.. ( why they call it hunting and not shooting) and here's another truth ,.
Never shot a bear ,.. except one couldn't avoid
(Had me on the meneu as lunch.)
Everthing else ( aside from deer ) NOT including that which will bite back,.

Meaning the big ones with houves and antlers ,.. all with an 8 x 57 all within 150 yds shooting 196 grain bullets at just a tad under 2600 fps.

Thusly fellow shooters ( and magnum blasters ) yuk yuk )
I will never say bigger isnt better in the literal sense with respect to the subject of killing
but as a parctical measure maybe not.

What I would find intersting is what geopgraphic area amd economic strata those who shoot expensive magnum projetiles come from.
Still understanding the later is essentially a
"data mining" impossibilty ,. the former would still be to me interstiong and possibly a telling factor.

YAW YAW 1st ve shoot da moose and den ve soot da bull
yuk yuk

But as long as I have been hunting most of it has been in the upper midwest and I have seen exactly three 300
mags two .338 win mags and one 375 H & H ,. which was carreid by a man I knew to be simply gun crazy at the time. He wanted to see the effect a 375 would have
on big Minnisota Whiteail. Vert funnt story but for another day .

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from wingshooter54 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Couldn't resist another comment;
Without argument,the whitetail deer is the most hunted big game animal in America. Probably why the bow/crossbow was no. 2 at 16%. Figure out the ft. lbs. of energy for an arrow leaving the bow/crossbow at 375 fps. and it will be similar to that of a 22 Hornet. It ain't energy that kills, but complete penetration through the vital area. Whitetails, even big whitetails, don't demand large calibers or magnum velocities. Having said that, I just acquired a Ruger no 1 in 9.3x74. The excuse was to shoot hogs, but hell, I just wanted one. I also have on layaway a .257 Weatherby for next season. Large, open, wheat and peanut fields might strain my 7x57 a little. Makes a good excuse anyway, which is what gun nuts do.

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wingshooter - that ought to make one heck of a hog gun!

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from davidpetzal wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To WAMTnHuntr: I'll go part of the way with you. A .338 is about right at 9 pounds with scope, which isn't all that heavy, and after your retinas loosen and your hip sockets pop you don't mind it so much. I happen to love recoil, so that's my choice--but you could do as well with a .30/06.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Cheers to all and any time you want to throw around B&C numbers we are more than happy to clarify any question that come up. We aren't offended and thanks for the support most have shown on here, the next list will be better, inline's are seperate, crossbows are there own category etc.

Besides there is no reason to argue the fact that the .338 is the best all round caliber for North America, to those complaining...hit the weight room (Obvisouly my opinion not B&C's)

Justin

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wing shooter ,. the "sports" in France like the 9.3 x 62 for hogs ,and stag ( doubles and bolts)
Not sure no time to look this second
Is 9.3 x 74 pretty much the metric counter part to .338 ?
Must have some hellish big hogs in Georgia ? YUK YUK

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Have seen em 400+ and not tame....and NOT happy! forget about hogzilla or any of that BS - try being in a thicket, in mud, with one mad and close!
Ask DakotaMan - he's been down in these parts.

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from AlaskanExile wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Dr. Petzal;
I'm with you. I think the 338 Winchester Magnum is the ultimate big game rifle for North America, the world, really, however it's more recoil than a lot of people can take.
I hunt everything with mine. I can't speak for anyone else, I just know what works for me. If what you use works for you buddy, good on ya!

The 270 placement didn't surprise me. When you visit Cabela's (store #1) in the fall 270 has it's own end cap/ the boxes of 270 ammo are 4-1 over anything else in number. That many Huskers can't be wrong.
AKX

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wingshooter just punched up ballistics for both

9.3 x 74 and 9.3 x 62 ,..with 285 gr no practicle difference.

Hogs be ware ,.

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from wingshooter54 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Yohan:
The 9.3x74 is over 100 years old and basically the ballistic twin to the 9.3x62. It is a rimmed cartridge invented for single shots, combination guns, and double rifles. During WWII, the Luftwaffe issued "survival" combo guns (shotgun/rifle) to their pilots in North Africa. Find one of those, and you are a rich man at the next gun auction. I probably don't really have a use for mine, but it will kill a whitetail very, very dead with minimum meat loss due to bullet impact.

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from Mark-1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wow. DP and B & C have defiled the Inner Sanctum and spouted Heresy. The Reactionaries have crawled out of the woodwork….talking. I can believe B & C figures. …Times change. IMHO:

300 Mags offer extra powder not available in ’06 size or 308 cases. I can understand why a hunter would want 300 Mag’s for deer and real NA Big Game.

338 Mag is marvelous medium factory cartridge and will be used more by NA Hunters. I love the way 225 and 250 grain bullets overwhelm Big Game. I prefer 35 Whelen and 338-06 only because I like 22” barrel. IMHO 338 need at least a 24” barrel. I predict the future one rifle hunter will have a fine 338 Mag rifle instead of a fine 30-06.

I think folks will play with an AR Platform, but there’s no way an AR Platform makes a big game rifle. If it was otherwise we all be using semi-auto since the 50’s

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sgaredneck

Dont doubt you ,.. have never hunted big Po'd hogs
Whacked a couple smaller ones ( one with 170 gr 30-30 and bigger one with 45-70,.. but nothing over 225.

The idea of a 400lb anything,.. unhappy with your presence does turn a differnt light on it.
Only bear I ever shot ( not on purpose) was a black bear Dressed at 250 +,..
Said bruin clearly intended making me lunch ,. took two 196 gr 8x57 rounds ,. one to stop it,. and one to pay the insurance.
That scared me more than a big kitty who also clearly had designs on my tender parts. Expectation is probabaly a big part of it ,. IE: didnt expect brear bruin to attempt to eat me. Where I was certian the big kitty might take that attituide once I started to put holes in him.
Irritated 400 lb hog in a mud hole,.. is not (to me) a pleasant prospect.
9.3 x 62 or 74 probably appropriate medicine.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

David P.

Correctomundo, sir. As a now certified old fart having passed the big six-oh, I will leave the truly big magnums to those more able with better health care plans that cover detached retinas and shoulder and knee socket repalcement surgery. Wait? None of will have that soon, but I digress.

Some of my cronies complain about felt recoil from my .35 Whelen when I slip them a "mickey" of a 250 grain bullet. My 35W weight in right at 8.2 pounds with 3 cartridges in the magazine and Montana leather sling attached. Not too bad with 225 gr loads and a Limbsaver recoil pad on the old BDL stock. My 7mm Weatherby is a little heavier and shoots just fine with 150 gr full house handloads. A bit louder though. Personally, I would go with a .340 Weatherby since I don't follow the herd very often nor well.

Thanks for all your fine articles. Wish there were more.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wingshooter ,. Thank you,..
for jogging my memeory ,. was aware of 9.3 x 74 ,when I saw "rimmed case" it all came back that Lufteaffe issued this weapon.

As an aside ,.in the late days of WWII
my father (haveing made it through the battle of the bulge ( one of 3 left in his company ) managed to send home some German rifles in tact.
Which was a trick.as many arrived with fireing pins welded to bolt faces or worse.
But he had by that time made some connections and belive it or not ,.had a shot at just what you mentioned .

It gets better
As one of the fist few troups through the gates of Dachau seeing what he saw and hearing what they had done in Norway( born in Norway )He openly hated and dispised Nazies until his death ,
But was also suspect of anything and anyone "German",. for a very long time.
Thankfully he finally was able to distinguish the differnce between a Nazi, SS officer . and a German farmer forecd to fight in that war.

Even so he was always impressed with German small arms. As he said "having been on the busines end of the Kraut small arms you couldnt help but be impressed unless or until they killed you".

Some how he had the chance to get hold of (two) single shot rifles in that caliber.9.3x74 for what he said was "next to nothing". Supposdly out of German bombers.

He decided against it becasue his thinking at the time was hard to find amunition,. and just too much gun for deer hunting in WI yuk yuk
Ah yes ,.and so it goes

Have a good day.;

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from Happy Myles wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Congratulations and thank you Boone & Crockett for willingly stepping in and participating in this forum. I have a hunch most organizations would have not done so, at least not as promptly. B & C is our country's oldest conservation founded by Teddy Roosevelt.
As I mentioned earlier, Jack Reneau is a class act and will follow up on all inquiries.
Would like to reemphasize the earlier comment that White Tail deer represent 25% of entered animals. Looking at the 12th Edition Record Book there are more than 80 tied for last place, number 3381 for typical deer. Non typical, over 20 tied for last ranking number 2387.

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from Jim Blum wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I am supprised that the 338 is not inb the top 3 this cartrige is a bear stopper it shoots flat has knock down power out at 300 + yards... the kick is less than the 300 RUM 's well in my oppion.. but with all the new cartriges and new guns out there what can you expect??/
every year someone comes up with a new gun that is the newest thing that they say is the ultmate gun for hunting..last time I checked my old guns still knock down game regulary.....

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from sarg wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Well, It really doesn't matter who or what org. says this is tops or that is the top calibre, I'll still use my .308 win, Rem 700. Shoot what you want, don't argue that a certain cartridge is the top cal. unles you survey more people than B&C records Say.... All B&c can say is that these are the top cartridges that WE know...

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from sarg wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Shoot what you want, shoot what you like, I'llstick with my trusty .308. Several other cartridges are more popular, but after shooting a .300Win. mag the other day, I wouldn't carry it for deer here in E. Ky. If you gave it to me. If you want to shoot a .300win mag at 75yds ,Go ahead That's what makes Guns and shooting so much fun.Like the old Army Saying Goes,(SMOKE'M if you GOTE'M...)

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from sarg wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry about the double POST, Didn't realized there were two pages, Good post Dave....

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter

My 338 Win Mag either shot by me or someone else especially the 4 years in Alaska, all one shot bang flops with a bit of hamburger and no trailing needed!!

225 grain Hornady's thumping right at 3000 fps dead on at 225 yards and 250 grain Noslers thumping at 2830ish dead level at 100 yards and just a tad 1/4 inch to the right, how better can you get!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No argument from me that the .338 Win mag is a superior big game cartridge. I just don't care for the recoil coupled with the blast. Wanna beat it? Get a .340 weatherby Mag! LOL

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from blueridge wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Petzel...

You are the consummate crank-artist.

Keep it up.

Blue

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Don;t know wher the #'s came from, but not from my boks and catalogs.
# 1 is still the 30-06
#-2 -------------270
#-3----------------300,min Chester
4-4----------------30-30
All the remainder fill the final gaps. THe 30-06 and the 300 win man will kill anything we hunt in NA other than mabye a Griz or Brownie. The 06 and the 300 will kill the Griz if a well placed shot, but be sure it'swell placed. I know guy who killed one 3 weeks ago with a 270, shot him in the eye Another neighbor uses a 22 mag,shoots between the eye and ear, never fails, has a 50 mm scope and a gret wo0dsman '. I Also, love my 25-06 for deer size game, and Lopes,bu did by my fist 270 for the heck of it, mostly due to the price of Marlins XL7, Shoos like dream to bull with a Nikon Monatch scope. Zeroed at 200 yds,and will put them within 2-3' till bbl get too hot.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
My Winchester Model 70 in .338 tips the scale at nine lbs. with scope, sling, and 8 rounds. It is not a shoulder breaker, likes a 180 gr. Nosler Accubond, but neither is it something you want to shoot over the bench all day. The .30-'06 gets to go more because it weighs about two and a half lbs less. That .340 Weatherby IS a shoulder breaker, judging by the limited amount I have shot one. Don't know what load I was shooting, though.

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from hunting022 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, I am as suprised as you. Out of the top 12 I have 3, .270,.308, muzzleloader/shotgun. I have taken many animals with all 3 and actually prefer my .308's.
My next purchase will be a 30-06 as plans are afoot for a trip west for larger than deer sized game, and I can't see the use of anything much larger than that. Somebody really needs to poll the real hunting world and get those results posted.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

crm3006

My .35 Whelen is something not to be shot all day at the bench either with 225 gr loads. My .30-06 that doesn't quite touch the 7 pound mark loaded with 165's will snap you to attention too! But it is a joy to carry in the mountains for an old coot like me and you! Most of the .340 Wby's you see have those darn muzzle brakes installed. That would be your first hint at their recoil.

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from steve182 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal,
If there was anyone i'd like to trade jobs with... You'd make that list. I like recoil too.

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from AlaskanExile wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Clay; How much "magic powder" were you using to get 3000 fps from your 338 Win with 225 grain bullets?

I have a cousin who swears he gets 7mm Remington Magnum performance from his 7mm Mauser handloads, but I don't hunt or go to the range with him.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

AlaskanExile

You are a wise man no doubt. Pixie dust I'm sure....

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To many people still believe velocity kills.

Can't believe I got in this late for the ruckus.

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from Ferber wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Oh, yes, Dave. Many surprises. Many moons ago I shot the .338 for the first time ar Russ Carpenter's place with Bob Elman and another notable, observing. This in advance of a British Columbia grizzly bear hunt we were about to experience. Bob was commissioned by the old and long defunct--but excellent--publication, American Sportsman, to write a piece on the hunt. Bob asked me to come along to photograph the event...and kill if he didn't feel comfortable shooting if a less-than-ideal opportunity presented itself. (What? Me take the blame
for making a lousy shot?). Like most all of us I wouldn't shoot either if I wasn't sure I would take the beast. Moot point since we never saw a grizz...though I got close a few times. (Sasquach-sized tracks still filling up with water!).

The Winchester I sighted-in was accurate and not uncomfortable to shoot but I never used it again only because I got a Weatherby .340 soon after, which has seen a lot of use.

Great cartridge, the .338, as is, or in the slightly faster Weatherby version.

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from Mock1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

For big game, up close and personal, give me my Marlin GG in 45-70. I'll stand my ground against anything with confidence. I get a kick out of everytime Clay posts his velocities for his .338. It never fails to bring up skeptics/comments. I brought my marlin GG and my Browning BAR in .300 win mag to deer camp this year and everyone commented on me being "over gunned". Shoot what you want but hit what you shoot at. Personally, I'm glad we all have such a large variety to choose from because, damn, you get into some great arguments/discussions

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from Kerby wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Following is two cents worth. I own a 7mm mag, a .44 mag handgun and rife, some 12Ga shotguns, a .50 cal inline and, a compound bow. I don't get to use my 7mm much, it requires a trip up to northern MI. I hunt state land in Southern MI (no centerfire/rimfire rifes allowed). So, 90% of the time I hunt with a 12Ga shotgun and/or .44 mag handgun. I hunt muzzleloading season with the .50. I quit bow hunting 'cause it interferes with waterfowl season ( just can't find the time to do it all). And, even though I like my 7mm mag( it does not kick as hard as the Deerslayer 12Ga ) I told my son he should get a .30.6 or .308 ( the ammo is more reasonably priced ). If I would ever be serious about hunting trophy whitetail in MI I'd pickup the bow, first in the field 3x the time.

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from RichardF wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would agree with the list. Point being archery seasins for whitetails being the longest, truely I am supprised that they are not #1 then the .300 mags would take care of the majority of the big game animals out west. The rest are a crap shoot. I guess the 30-06 and 308 are falling due to the new 300 rounds.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
I'm not as old an old coot as you! LOL. I will confess to having a muzzle brake on my .338, and a Pachmeyer pad.

Clay Cooper- That is one HUMMIN' load you got there, son!

RichardF-How is the .30-'06 falling? You are getting a comparison of six or more .300 mags against ONE .30-'06.
'06 is still the Daddy of them all, (got some pretty good offspring, too) and still one of the most, if not the most versatile cartridges out there. Oh, forgot to mention, kills everything from prairie dogs to elk like the Hammer of Thor!

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The 30-06 is al the gun anyone needs fo all types of hunting. From a 55 gr to a 220 gr. so many variables. I just love guns, and got more than anyone needs to hunt with. I just enjoy rubbig, polishing thr nice walnut, but Walnt is goona be Historey soon. Go to mot gun shops and its all Syns. Me,and it only m, iI feel the 30-06 eith l5 gr or l80 for Elk will take them doen if you place your hot proper. Now for Lopes I love my 25-06. Al my hunting guns ( not plinkes r benh stuff is Walnutand well maintained in my safe. I'm told the larger calibes better for long distace lke teh 300 min mag. My 30-0 with a Nion Monarch scpe will shot 2' grop out to 400 yds most days and I can;t seebeyon that distace at all. Us old 12 ga shotgun deer hunts behind a pack of dogs will ruin a centerfire huntr. Again, if I had to rid myself of all the guns I own for hunting, except It would be the 30-06 last to go. As for handguns, my S&W model 27 in 357 i enough handgun as well. But enjoy my Uberti 44-40 at the range now and then. ys lets al face it, we don;t have enough guns, best we go on a buying spee and maybe will be happy till next new Guns and Ammo catalog comes out. I pray no new ones out so soon in 2010 give us time to get over fall hnting of 2009/ However, guns ae a beter investment than the bank or DOW.With little or no risk, mostly a profit if bought at right store and right time.Now is a gd time f or denterfe, as its Duck time now.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

i love the consept of the 270 winchester.. sadly there are better round out today, but still, have the same discussion 100 years from now and personally i think the newish 270wsm is gonna be on that same list, even if it only gets the percentage the 270win got today. and it will have surpassed it.. im pretty sure.. i want it, any sponsors?? rifletesters out there?? gimme gimme :D

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

That is the first time that I learned that an arrow is a cartridge. I don't think that is a fair representation of " average" hunters putting meat in the freezer. The 30-06 and the 308 would surely be up on the list. Made for good dicussion anyway.

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from Brian Robinson wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Personally I think the 30-06 has many pratical advantages over any of the 30cal magnums.

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from halconen wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Tony C great choice with your 7mm-08 for deer. And it does make the original list. It comes in at number 3 as it falls into the .270 category.

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I still feel the 30-06 is the caliber of choice for most al NA game, Until l0 or so yrs ago, when I was able to ramble thru the woods shots were in he l00 yds or less. Now at my age and disabilities i must hut from a stand,. With that being the case i must make longer shots. I never dreamed i could make a 345 yd shot, but I di and one at 325 with the 25-06. With todays supped up ammo like he Scirocos in l0 gr and Winc. Ballastic tips 400 yds is not out of the realm of acuracy for long shots. Now,I must use a scope, as eyes fadding a tad. For past several yeas, i have made B/P shots in the 300 yds range using l50 grs (pellets and Powerbelt pointed tips Bullets). My secrete is not teh weapon, but the pratice, if you plan on making a Rockie Mtn Shot, you must be able to shot accurate to 400 yds if you gonna kill your game. I failed to praticeenough this year, and made 2 lousy shots, both under l00 yds, but did kill the animal on 2nd shot, I prefer a one shot kill. My health is out of wack and got topratice a lot morebefore next season. Dill kill a groundhog at l70 yds using a 22 mag scoed for 200 yds 2 weeks ago. Again, teh 30-06 is all I want to try,as at 74 bones rittle and the 06 is all I can handle,. Granted the 300 min mag will shoot further and straighter than the 06,but with the right ammo the 06 will hold its own to 400 yds. Shoot-um-straight and often. Be sure and check that zero before the hunt,weather flying, driving, or walking. Don;t depend on last yrs zero to be the same always.I've fund the Leupold Dual Dovce Tail to be the most accurate, strongest and stay zeroed than any mounting sysrem I;ve tried.. I use to think Weaver as the better,but not now. Once you set the bases (using nail polish )on all screws the Leupolds being of steel, they will as a rule stay on zero After 4 trips west by plane,they have remainded zero so far. Pratice, then pratice some more.If using a see-thru mount, you best check the Zero often, even during the hunt if posible,as they the most flemisy set up you can use.

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I still feel the 30-06 is the caliber of choice for most al NA game, Until l0 or so yrs ago, when I was able to ramble thru the woods shots were in he l00 yds or less. Now at my age and disabilities i must hut from a stand,. With that being the case i must make longer shots. I never dreamed i could make a 345 yd shot, but I di and one at 325 with the 25-06. With todays supped up ammo like he Scirocos in l0 gr and Winc. Ballastic tips 400 yds is not out of the realm of acuracy for long shots. Now,I must use a scope, as eyes fadding a tad. For past several yeas, i have made B/P shots in the 300 yds range using l50 grs (pellets and Powerbelt pointed tips Bullets). My secrete is not teh weapon, but the pratice, if you plan on making a Rockie Mtn Shot, you must be able to shot accurate to 400 yds if you gonna kill your game. I failed to praticeenough this year, and made 2 lousy shots, both under l00 yds, but did kill the animal on 2nd shot, I prefer a one shot kill. My health is out of wack and got topratice a lot morebefore next season. Dill kill a groundhog at l70 yds using a 22 mag scoed for 200 yds 2 weeks ago. Again, teh 30-06 is all I want to try,as at 74 bones rittle and the 06 is all I can handle,. Granted the 300 min mag will shoot further and straighter than the 06,but with the right ammo the 06 will hold its own to 400 yds. Shoot-um-straight and often. Be sure and check that zero before the hunt,weather flying, driving, or walking. Don;t depend on last yrs zero to be the same always.I've fund the Leupold Dual Dovce Tail to be the most accurate, strongest and stay zeroed than any mounting sysrem I;ve tried.. I use to think Weaver as the better,but not now. Once you set the bases (using nail polish )on all screws the Leupolds being of steel, they will as a rule stay on zero After 4 trips west by plane,they have remainded zero so far. Pratice, then pratice some more.If using a see-thru mount, you best check the Zero often, even during the hunt if posible,as they the most flemisy set up you can use.

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Archery at 16%? Why not?

Another way to look at it is this: Firearms, including muzzleloaders - 84%.

Remove the blackpowder portion, you have smokeless/centerfire at 74%.

Not bad.

And since the .270, .30-06 and 7mag (usually Remington) are considered the Top 3 big game rounds, and are practically equal in effectiveness when it comes to whitetail/mule deer/caribou and even elk sized animals (with proper bullets), their shares of 12, 11 and 11% overall are close enough to be almost identical. Their combined 34% is about one-third of total.

Again, not bad.

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Again, this is for the most popular rounds.

Not a list for most sensible, most effective, most flat-shooting, most numb-em-right-where-they-stand-and-drop-em-dead cartridges.

Most popular.

34% (combined) of hunters preferred the "standard" or mild-magnum (7mm) rounds. The .270 shoots flat, the .30-06 throws a heavier bullet and hits harder. The 7mag (at Remington levels) somehow combines flat trajectory with heavy bullet. A big portion of hunters still chose this performance level. The 3 cartridges are common enough to ensure reliable supply anywhere in NAmerica, recoil is within tolerance limits of most North Americans, and the performance is adequate for most game not called "bear". Looks like the ingredients for "popular" to me.

Those who stepped up a bit chose the various .300 magnums. They accounted for 18%. I think that's very reasonable.

Those who could go heavier than .300 are understandly fewer, so we see fewer .338s and .375s.

We also see fewer 6mms and .25s because people want a gun that would handle a wider range of game.

I still can't explain the .308's low share though. Maybe they're just not into B&C registration. Or they happened to have left their .308 at home that particular day, and carried a .30-06 or .300 mag instead, then anchored a buck or bull and registered it. Remember, just because a hunter shot an animal with a .300mag doesn't mean he/she shoots that caliber exclusively.

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from RobertBlogger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

That's a good list. However, I would have thought the 7mm magnum and the 308 would have been higher on the list.

www.Gunsellers.com

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Check out the Readers Poll from a year or two ago on this site:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/pages/gun-nut-survey-highly-biased-unoffic...

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thr older article is much more to my liking! A lot more information.

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from Salvatore wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

All are great rounds in my opinion, and all seem to have their on purpose and specialty.

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from ericb622 wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Boone and Crockett is not really a representative cross section of hunters. Most entries are serious nimrods that are gonna use a little much than a little less. Plus, if you ask most guides and outfitters, they are gonna recommend a .300 magnum because it is going to anchor the animal faster than the lesser loads. Also, elk, mooses, 'bou, and bears are probably part of the survey not just deer. If you polled B&C whitetail, mule, and blacktail entries, I bet the .270 and 30'06 would be 1 and 2 and vice versa, with the .308 a close 3rd.

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from Tracer-Round wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

No one likes a blurred wet scope to see through. I might not be holding true, but to me it looks like you’re presenting ‘a hunter must have these’ if they want to better their chances to qualifying for the B&C pages. B&C is nice, but ‘Joe the Plummer’ couldn’t give a hoot. Or what was the purpose of your survey? Not to be a Spock, but it’s all logical really. I can understand the .270 as #3; it’s probably agreed that most big game hunters predominately go whitetail only and the .270 works really well. However, I live & hunt in central Colorado and we have a happiness of going 2 directions, east for 'lopes, west for mulies & wapiti. Having enough kill power at longer than 100 yard distances is the norm. Chasing down wounded, ran-off elk is not good at all. There are whitetails in Co, but not my direction. The .270 is an excellent choice for mulies, but it’s on the low side of acceptable cartridges for elk through various agreements. So the 30’s are my logical, affordable choices; 300 WM for primary and 30-06 for back-up and pronghorn. .308 would be my next choice. The archers & muzzys have it nice but . . . as one writer put it, take out the ‘modern’ cams and in-lines, and those numbers will change. But we’re past the 20th Century, not likely to go back. I use a .223 Rem for coyotes & prairie dogs, and don’t have/use either a 6mm or .243, so I’m set. Start by including a higher number of hunters in your survey that go a) on their own accords, b) still vote for hunting rights and c) don’t necessarily go or yet get B&C recognition. If these samples present a skewed or blurry picture, then do the surveys again, but correctly. Oh yeah, can ‘food-plot’ deer still qualify for B&C? Oh, okay then its fuzzy logic.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I'm an '06 lover as regular guys here know but, I will concede if I lived up north with elk, moose and possibly a bear encounter on my list regularly, AND I didn't own a .30 cal I would buy the 300 mag with 'premium' bullets to withstand the extra velocity and give those larger animals an extra thump. But, if I had an '06 to hunt these critters, I sure wouldn't buy a 300 if I thought I needed more power in that case I'd keep my '06 and buy a 338 or 358.

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from 3030forlife wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

A true list of average hunters would be somthing like this(in no particular order)
30-06
30-30
270
308

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from arosy123 wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

@ bthomasb1

I too know a few people who own 300 SAUM's...in fact, I own a 7mm SAUM myself. These really are great rounds. They have all the power of the standard 300 and 7mm magnums, but are more accurate and they use less powder. It's a shame the SAUM didn't catch on like the WSM did.

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from sbfish wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I am not surprized at the 270s rating .It is one of the most versitile guns

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from Redbone wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Not suprised at all about the bow. I see more and more bow hunters in the woods every fall. My pick is the 308. Unfortantly I have to hunt with a 12ga where i go.

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from tbogg10 wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

wow i always thought the 30/06 was the most popular big game rifle, but archery is no surprise because of the amount of time it allows in the woods.

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I really feel bad about rounds introduced by Remington when they are pitted against Winchester counterparts. While Remington has had better success in centerfire 22's (.222, .223 and .22-250) and 7mm,

it lost in the 6mm category (the .25-06 doesn't count, because until the .25WSSM, Winchester didn't have an entry in that caliber).

The .280 lost to the .270

The 8mmRemMag lost to the .338, and now to the .325

The full sized Ultra Mags had a 2-year reign, then were pulled back down by the more practical WSMs. The big .338RUM is really no better than the .340Wby, and is not even a big factor in the sniper market, where the reigning ".338" is the Lapua. Heck, even Remington is being forced to offer its sniper rifle in .338Lapua, how embarrassing!

And even though Remington could show evidence that it was ahead in developing its SAUMs, it was late in introducing them, so they smashed into the WSM wall.

I think the .416 Remington is a great success for Remington, but now the .416 Rem. must contend with the .416 Ruger.

I wish Armalite or DPMS or Remington itself would develop an AR-10 chambered for the .300SAUM. I know they already exist, but they're an On again Off again item in the DPMS lineup. With snipers beginning to prefer semiautos for urban warfare in the war on terror, an AR-type in .300SAUM would not only offer added reach and punch, it just might save the SAUM line!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

If you ever fired an 8mm Remington Magnum or bought ammunition for it, one would understand its demise as a production elk rifle.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I’ll stick to what is tried and proven, the WSM’s and WSSM’s just don’t thrill me. Performance vs cost isn’t worth bringing one of the cartridges on line. My 22-250, 25-06, 6.5x55, 30-06 and my 338 Win Mag always delivered at all ranges just as good if not better than any other round. Not only have I believed there better, they are more supportable in which I can make my own cases. 25-06 I use 270, 280 and 30-06 and for my 338 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag work really good. Even if the WSM’s or WSSM’s may be just 150 feet per second faster, 2 ½ times the cost trying to feed the darn thing just isn’t worth the hassle. As for the 25 WSSM, it’s 100 fps slower than a 25-06 so go figure.

Bottom line

If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it!

If it’s working flawlessly, don’t dink with it!

Whatever blows up your Kilt and you’re happy with it,

GO FOR IT!

Just call me an OLD DIE HARD!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Back in 86-90 the 416 was popular down in the Anchorage AK area, but not so around Fairbanks. 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag was the more popular round in the interior of Alaska followed by the 375 H&H

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Ijust read a book by JAck O'Conner and got the impresson, the 270 was a joke with him, not his # 1 gun to hunt with. I'd say the 06 was his gun of choice. Most of my hunting has been with the Shotgun and the 30-30 untilI started going to the rockies to hunt. I tried seveal calibers ad decide the 06 ws about all i cold/wanted to handle.With the newer Ammo now available,lke the Rem SCirocco's in l80 gr, it will each out there as well ss the 300 win mag and shoot much flatter and as accuate to 400 yds. Dubt many of us gona shot that far or further. 4 foot-ball fields a long distance.
As for he ASUM's and WSM's don;t dare think they gonna be arnd as long s the 30-30. 0,, 0r 308. A good writter friend of mine, when I ask his opinon about a Western gun,told me not to sell my regular 25-06' or 30-06 or 30-30, as the SAUM and WSM's was not long for the hunting world,maybe for the bench, but when accuracy comes into place,continue to use old faithfl 06. If i had to eliminatre all my fiearms these ae the one's i would keep:
#1- 30-06
#2- 25-06
#3- 270
#4-30-30
#5-22 SemiAuto LR
#6-44-40 5 l/2"
#7- Con.Carry a 2 l/2 22 mag
#8- Hunting in dangerous Game Country a 44-40 5l/2" bbl.

Now only need one shotgun, Remingto 1100 in 12 ga.
These are my primary hunting weapons, the remander, show and tell, trade and swap on.
I pray at age74, the day is far off that I will not be a gun and hunting nut. Never wanted all the guns, just one of each I like.
Almost forgot Black Powder
1: Encore in 50 Caliber Walnut stock and a few changeable bbls for Pest control, like Coyotes and Foxes.What-ever you use/own, shoot often and pratice a lot.When crunch tmes comes the pratice will pay great dividends.. Good hunting guy,hope you were successfl in 209. Got the deer of my dreams, a 290 lb(not field dressed) 10 point w-tail, that slpped into out core area and no one knew he was around,or if they did was hush hushHopefuly he left many genes for later years for my family.

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from sarg wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

My list of big Game cartridges is easy,

.308
.308
.308
.308
you shoot what you want, I'll shoot my .308

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from nigins wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

.300mag is definitely not a surprise. I think I have heard somewhere that it is fastest growing caliber, in popularity, across the nation. I just moved to Idaho from Ohio where centerfire rifles are judiciously limited to varmints only. I would say at least 25% of the people I have met shoot .300win mags. The others are mixed between 30-06, .308, .270, and the occasional .338.

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from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Many thanks to Mr. Petzal and the gentlement from B&C for posting this very interesting info. It is nice to see factual information like this. As hunters in America, the firearms we shoot have been accumulating for over a century now. Many of us have grandpa's and dad's old rifle and are still happy to be able to hunt with it. At the same time, new cartriges continue to be introduced constantly. The actual new cartriges being bought each year are heavily influenced by marketing dollars, ink (written articles), and shelf space (e.g. what Walmart sells). At the same time, technological advancements like better telescopic sights, mass production of higher quality barrels and emergence of the AR platform cause a gradual change in what becomes the norm in the hunting field. There are many 30-06s and .270s in closets across America and they continue to be sold, yet the 7mm mag and 300 mags are climbing because they close the longer range gap left by those vererable oldies. The black powder and archery numbers climb as states limit access to centerfire hunting and extend those seasons. I was most surprised to see that the .375, considered to be an African cartrige, to account for 2% of B&C records. I predict that number will climb in coming decades as more rifles are sold in this amazing big game caliber. In the future it would be good to see these statistics arranged by decade, by quarry, by location and finally by cartrige... numbers are most interesting and this is a great source for factual numbers. By the way, I don't mind using great cartriges that don't make the records. I used a 25-06 before Remingon adopted it. I also hunt with a .300 Dakota because I feel it is more accurate and has lower recoil than most of its .300 mag neighbors while extending my effective range substantially over the 30-06. Thanks again.

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from autoloader wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

No love for the .35 Remington? It's a proven round and has probably taken as many deer as the ol' .30/30. The 200 grain Core Lokts hit hard, you just have to get a little closer to your target. My first rifle was my granddad's Remington Model 8. Whatever I got in it's sights went down on the spot.

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from born2hunt7 wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

I think that is because of all the hoopla given by those "gun" experts of what is the best cartridge out there. What are these peopl hunting? Elefants ? Long before all of these magnum craze the old 06 and the 30-30 put a lot of meat on the table. Those elks and moose were dead dead. Another point is that those who kill "trophy" game do it on very expesive and selected places where the common man cannot hunt or better said, afford> I have hunted for years with my old 30-30 and 06 and every game I have harvested has been dead, dead. I close the distance (love it when is close and I can feel the beast breath ) I'm not disappointed with the results because I know it does not show the total harvested game, it only shows the "trophy" results. I know better..

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from lshenke wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

I think you would enjoy trying my Remington Model 721 264 Win Mag with its new 30 inch Shilen barrel and new Nikon Buckmaster 6-18 scope with BDC (not sighted in yet). I have loaded 95gr Vmax, 100gr HP and 100gr BT with 67grs H4831 pushing each with next to no recoil. The only thing that might discourage meeker Hunters is its 12.5 lbs weight.

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from jwallen wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

Do I understand this correctly that it is the last three years and not all time? If it is just the last three years then it would be slewed to fads and not quite represent the overall usage?

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from mr_A wrote 2 years 40 weeks ago

I would think that the 30/30 kills more deer each year that all others put together.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

http://www.booneandcrockettclub.com/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID...

Here is the full press release with top choices by category.
I would argue that the record book is more of a snapshot of average hunters than you would assume, we are in the process of pulling out youth hunters who were 16 or under when the took their trophy in the last three years for recognition and all of these are included in this caliber list, they made up roughly 6% of the sample. Given, this is just a snapshot, not all entries include weapon data, but I would argue, since I talk to the hunters and compiled this list, that it is a representative snapshot. The majority of our entries are average hunters who have a once in a lifetime opportunity and convert.
Also, many bow enteries only go in Pope and Young Records so I believe bow numbers may be a bit low(yes we accept bow entries).
Finally the lack of 25/06 entries really surprised me as well, it is a great light caliber and it doesn't appear nearly as many people are using them as I would expect.
This list is being expanded to get a more precise picture of weapon choice in the future, so this data will only get better as time goes.

Justin Spring
Assistant Director
Big Game Records

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I have worked for Boone and Crockett Club’s records program since 1976 and there are some incorrect stereotypical assumptions being made about the caliber data that B&C recently published, as well as the type of hunters entering trophies in B&C. From the comments posted, it appears that some hunters think only so called trophy hunters enter trophies in B&C. While there are no doubt serious trophy hunters doing so, nothing could be further from the truth. I have found over the years that the majority of hunters entering trophies in B&C are your average hunter who actually “stumbled” on a B&C trophy, especially whitetail deer. Many hunters take a B&C the first time they go hunting, and many other hunters take a B&C trophy after hunting a lifetime. Also, no less than 75 children, 16-years-old and younger, have entered a trophy in B&C in the last three years. Six percent of the sample size used for our caliber report was children who can hardly be considered trophy hunters. Given a choice, I have found that many of the so-called meat hunters will pick a buck over a doe, and most hunters will pick a larger buck if given a choice. That hardly makes them a trophy hunter. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. If the data is skewed, it’s because there are so many caliber choices today that are being hyped in the outdoor press that the average hunter doesn’t fully understand that bigger isn’t necessarily better. For example, back in the 1950s the .300 Savage was considered a great caliber for moose. Also, the archery figures are skewed lower because most hunters, including many bowhunters do not enter their trophy in B&C because they don’t know that B&C accepts animals harvested with archery tackle and/or because of a deliberate decision to only enter their trophy in P&Y.

Jack Reneau
Director, Big Game Records
Boone and Crockett Club
250 Station Dr.
Missoula, MT 59801
406/542-1888, ext. 205

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from Greenhead wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would guess that is not a survey or average hunters, but rather hunters who enter game into B&C. Hardly representative. I would think in a broader survey, the .308 and .30-06 would rank much higher thanks to all the guys who just want to fill the freezer each fall.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

You have hit a nerve with B&C records claiming our data set, which we strive to create a scientifically sound record of the best specimens of big game in North America, is biased by trophy hunting mentality. Both the Director and Assistant Director of the records program are trained and experienced wildlife biologists working for a diverse group of wildlife management employers at the private, state, and federal level before coming to work for B&C. Below you will find our two rebuttals.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

So let's see what the numbers are when you take all the Kids 16 and under out of the mix. Also what would it look like if you took out all the entries 18 years old and younger? Would bet that the 6mm/.243 would drop way down. I don't think it would matter for the .257's.

My unscientific survey of all the N0-$h1t deer and elk hunters that I know will tell you that .300 mags, 7mm Mags, .30-06, .270's of all flavors, and .308 Win/.300 Savage dominate the picture. Those of us who are really in the know will throw in a .35 Whelen and .338-06 or two into the mix. LOL (I'm just kidding about the "in the know part, so don't flame me!)

Our hunt group has piled up the deer and elk the past 5 or 6 years and not a B&C among them, but some real nice wall hangers none the less. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder anyhow.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B&C is definitely not the exclusive domain of the well heeled. I know 3 or 4 good old boys from down my way that are just hard core hunters with well worn heels that have bucks in the book.

Their favorite firearm, "Seb'um Mag" of course. That is 7 mm Remington Magnum to you folks from north of the Mason/Dixon... I too an surprised that the 7 Mag is not higher on the list.

Muzzleloader/Shotgun/Archery doesn't surprise me at all. As others have pointed out it is simply the availability of special draw hunts/longer seasons/archery only/shotgun only/muzzleloader only seasons becoming more prevalent.

I also thought the Quarter Bore Clan would finish higher as well.

I'm curious, what is the number of Whitetail entries vs. entries for other species? I'll bet it is out of proportion...?

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I have questions.

#1 - Why does "B & C Records" feel such a need to be sooo defensive?

#2 - The real data, please. How many "B&C" 'racks' were taken at for-pay high fence ranch hunting operations? How many on public land?

#3 - Out of those taken, how many 'repeat customers' do you have? Does this suggest they are no-$#!+ hunters or that they have the $$$ to hunt places where the deck (odds)are more stacked in their favor for 'harvesting' such sized racks, er, I mean deer?

I'm just asking questions. I'm not inferring answers. Sounds like to me if you have so much data, you (not Dave, but B&C) could be more forthcoming with us here. And I'm not even mad that my 7 mag is low in the outcome of calibers used. I'm like others; I'd have bet the farm that 30/06 and .308 would be a lot higher, therefore my other questions.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

OK,
1. Boone and Crockett entry requirements in relation to archery are not subject to the same rules as Pope and Young in regards to Let-Off. Since we are not weapon specific, as long as the let-off is legal in the state, it is acceptable. The same goes for knocks, all sights are allowed as long as they don't incorporate light intensifying devices(night vision). Crossbows count as well
2. None of our trophies come from high fence pay to play ranches, our fair chase guidelines prohibit animals confined by artificial barriers including escape proof fencing enclosures
3. I cannot definitively tell you how many public versus private land trophies are entered but would assume that it varies in regard to the amount of public land available in the state in question
4. The 6 percent of trophies in reference to youth seemed appropriate since if you assume the hunting age is 12-60, I know that it can be lower or higher but assume this is "average" which is what all this comes down too, averages. ten percent of this range is 4.8 years the said range is approximately 4 years and accounts for 6% of entries leading us to assume that spread across the data set, the trophies are equally spaced with the one guaranteed age range(12-16 which I just compiled) I can summarize and therefore can partially rule out the theory of just trophy hunters entering animals in B&C. Obviously when i do this again I will supply an age demographic for further scrutiny. In relation to taking out the kids and 6mm/.243 dropping I don't think it would effect numbers since the youth make up an expected portion of the entries.
5. The reason that I put forth this data is, truth be told, I was curious and spit out a data base query which revealed that the 06 was not number one, Mr. Petzel I grew up reading your contributions to the shooting public and can probably trace the fact that I shot a .338 Mag until I was around 20 to your writing and was just plain curious as to the breakdown.
6. YOU CAN ALL REST ASSURED THAT THIS IS NOT THE LAST ARTICLE THAT I/WE WILL PUT OUT FOR THE PUBLIC TO VIEW. I am getting my feet wet and understand what I can and can't do with entry info and many factors you have touched on will hopefully be addressed as i modify data entry to be more conductive to decisive conclusions in regard to caliber choice.
6. The argument about all the possible .300 mags was my concern with this data we put out, I can say that the Lazzeroni's are not included nor "Dakota's, H&H's and the other less common but present .300's those are all in the 8% other category. The ultra's, WSM's, and Win. Mags, and a Weatherby or two are what make up this category, sorry to the 300 Savage fans as well, I did not include those as a .300 mag."

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry I missed a few,
The defensiveness comes from the fact that those in the records department, Jack and I, take great offensive to a comment suggesting we aren't correctly portraying what in Jack's case has been a distinguished career working for the club and trying to keep the records as representative as possible since that is why it was started, we are a conservation organization that keeps records not a records keeping organization that cares about conservation. The records began as a way to record the best species present on the North American continent fearing they, and they were, going extinct. Wildlife management worked and we indirectly became the party who scores and recognizes world records, that is not why B&C was started nor why it continues. Repeat customers are the exception, not the norm.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

David P.

Correctomundo, sir. As a now certified old fart having passed the big six-oh, I will leave the truly big magnums to those more able with better health care plans that cover detached retinas and shoulder and knee socket repalcement surgery. Wait? None of will have that soon, but I digress.

Some of my cronies complain about felt recoil from my .35 Whelen when I slip them a "mickey" of a 250 grain bullet. My 35W weight in right at 8.2 pounds with 3 cartridges in the magazine and Montana leather sling attached. Not too bad with 225 gr loads and a Limbsaver recoil pad on the old BDL stock. My 7mm Weatherby is a little heavier and shoots just fine with 150 gr full house handloads. A bit louder though. Personally, I would go with a .340 Weatherby since I don't follow the herd very often nor well.

Thanks for all your fine articles. Wish there were more.

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Archery is number two for the simple fact archery seasons are much longer than gun seasons. I would be curious to know how many B&C animals are from public or private land.

Living in Ohio I would have guess archery to be number 1.

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from hnestle wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

In a pool of all hunters not just those in the BC I would have to say the top two would be .270 and 30-06.

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from JD wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Agreed,

The numbers are skewed towards more "elegant" calibers, not a cross section of all deer hunters. Interesting but not practical.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

A few question that are coming up are good and I will take the time to answer them to the best of my ability later this afternoon/evening when I get home. Direct them to Justin on here and I will get to them as I get a chance in regard to entry requirements, or the compilation of my list.

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from KJ wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

For years a lot of gun writers have been boasting about their magnums, and a lot of readers bought into that, so it doesn't surprise me that the .300 mags are #1 and the 7mm mags are #5. But really - a .300 mag is just a loud, hard-kicking .30-06, and the 7 mags are just loud, hard-kicking .270s. This survey doesn't indicate worthiness, just use by people entering in the B&C books. You don't need magnums - bow entries were #2! I'm really surprised the 6mm came in higher than the .308.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Ah-ha!

Read the link furnished by the B and C Records folks and that tells the Paul Harvey "Rest of the Story!

http://www.booneandcrockettclub.com/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID...

The .300 and 7mm magnums dominate the big Cervids and the '06 and .270 come into the mix with the small deer. Statistics can be and often are, in other words, lies and damn lies!

Let's get a good argument stirred up! That's where the truth come out!

Best regards,
WMH

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To the Boone and Crockett directors:

Thanks for your responses. I'm satisfied.

The reason so many of us are seemingly debating you is that this is the first time in our lives we've seen any kind of a cartridge popularity list that didn't go

1. .30-06
2. .270
3. 7mm Magnum
4. .308

... and we want to know what happened!

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Easy 'Neck,

I can feel the heat all the way up here in the Piedmont! On second thought it feels pretty good considering the weather lately, keep 'a stewin'!

I'd like to point out for one and all that B&C nor P&Y will accept animals killed from High Fenced areas, or at least the last time I read the rules they didn't.

I'd still like to have my question answered concerning the number of whitetails vs. the number of other species entered in the book.

WMH, I'd bet a good many of the .300 mags will fall into the bear category as well.

Dave, you need to really stir the pot more often!

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thanks 'Neck,

Like I said, I'm enjoying the warmth which is radiating north! LOL! Here's to a spirited discussion that is not entirely 30/06 vs. 270!

Cheers!

Everyone

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would be curious to know how the game breaks down? The high percentage of .300s doesn't surprise me if you have a lot of sheep and antelope records, and elk. Bigger is better, right? Not that you need bigger for the speed goats, everybody just thinks you have to shoot 400 yds. to kill one. If it was strictly deer and elk, the '06 and .270 and even the quarter bores would have placed higher. Throw in the bears, and the low placement of the .338 and .375 makes me wonder what people use for bears. Do longer seasons for archery have that big an impact? Guess so.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Other notable fact, WHITETAILS MAKE UP 25% of the entries considered and the .300 is not in the top 4 but still comes out ahead.
While I can't reply as quick as I would like, keep the questions coming and I will do my best to answer

Justin E. Spring
Assistant Director
Big Game Records

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

@ bthomasb1

I'm glad that someone owns those rifles chambered in those cartridges. Someone needs to save them from extinction!

FWIW, I'll keep using my very appropriate 35 Whelen, .30-06, and 7mm Weatherby to do my elk killing chores. The rest of the hunting world may certainly choose to do otherwise. I don't depend on others to sleep well.

LOL

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Rice Farm nailed it. This was a polite discussion compared to many on this blog! While there are those who have facts to back up their lists, favorites, best this or that, etc., there are a multitude of "regulars", dare I say it, that don't know $h1t from Shinola and are all too willing to spread their brand of fertilizer.

Lists, polls, and votes really always make sense and are always based on truth, justice, and the American way. Just like the 2008 Presidential Election, huh?

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Cheers to all and any time you want to throw around B&C numbers we are more than happy to clarify any question that come up. We aren't offended and thanks for the support most have shown on here, the next list will be better, inline's are seperate, crossbows are there own category etc.

Besides there is no reason to argue the fact that the .338 is the best all round caliber for North America, to those complaining...hit the weight room (Obvisouly my opinion not B&C's)

Justin

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from Jim Blum wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I am supprised that the 338 is not inb the top 3 this cartrige is a bear stopper it shoots flat has knock down power out at 300 + yards... the kick is less than the 300 RUM 's well in my oppion.. but with all the new cartriges and new guns out there what can you expect??/
every year someone comes up with a new gun that is the newest thing that they say is the ultmate gun for hunting..last time I checked my old guns still knock down game regulary.....

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from Mock1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

For big game, up close and personal, give me my Marlin GG in 45-70. I'll stand my ground against anything with confidence. I get a kick out of everytime Clay posts his velocities for his .338. It never fails to bring up skeptics/comments. I brought my marlin GG and my Browning BAR in .300 win mag to deer camp this year and everyone commented on me being "over gunned". Shoot what you want but hit what you shoot at. Personally, I'm glad we all have such a large variety to choose from because, damn, you get into some great arguments/discussions

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
I'm not as old an old coot as you! LOL. I will confess to having a muzzle brake on my .338, and a Pachmeyer pad.

Clay Cooper- That is one HUMMIN' load you got there, son!

RichardF-How is the .30-'06 falling? You are getting a comparison of six or more .300 mags against ONE .30-'06.
'06 is still the Daddy of them all, (got some pretty good offspring, too) and still one of the most, if not the most versatile cartridges out there. Oh, forgot to mention, kills everything from prairie dogs to elk like the Hammer of Thor!

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from Mjenkins1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

30-06 i thought would have been top two. But how about the 6mm? like as in the .243win? Come on now, give it a little more credit Dave. Also that bow/crossbow really surprised me.

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from babsfish4life wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I think that they main factor on this list is that most people that are really trying to get into the B&C need the antlers more than the meat. I think that is why the 300 mag is #1, and I think that bowhunting records are submitted more often since it is gaining in popularity and more bow opportunity. It is a great list but I think that understanding that it isn't "the top hunting rounds" for the general public is important.

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from PbHead wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No surprise on the high standing of the "primitive" bows, crossbows, shotguns and blackpowder weapons. Special seasons, early seasons and longer seasons create more opportunity. Also today's rifled slug gun with modern optics is a long way from Uncle Bud's High Standard pump.

I wonder how many "Book" trophies are taken incidentally?

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from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would have guessed that the combined category of muzzleloader/shotgun would have been slightly higher - not because of the effectiveness of the round but because of all the states that only permit the use of shotgun or muzzleloader.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I suppose I'm surprised in that I thought B&C was for firearms and P&Y was for archery. But then I'm not a trophy hunter so what do I know. I would have thought the .308 Win would have made the top 5 even with bows included. I have no use for 6mm cartridges and am surprised that the .257's didn't place higher given all the hooplah given to them on this blog.

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from MLH wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

.270 over .30-06 - bet that is making some jaws drop. lol

Does B&C put limits on bow let-off like P&C? If so, perhaps some trophies that are ineligible for P&C are eligible for B&C.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

David, I know if I'd said anything disputing the lineup I'd be preaching to the choir also!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I wonder what sources was used to come up with this line up?

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from jcarlin wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

It's amusing me that a trophy recording service is upset at the implication that their stats might be skewed towards people who want their trophy recorded. That would seem to be self evident regardless of the background and intent of it's directors.

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from hengst wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Stats of trophy hunter. A more realistic and honest answer would be by putting a poll right here on F&S. Ya'll have the best demographics a person could ask for when assembling data...put it to good use. I bet everyones pet caliber (but not mine) the 30.06 would score higher then...but bowhunting is gaining alot of momentum

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from Cbass wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Overkill or no, .300 magnums individually would probably outdo neither the .270 nor the '06. Consider: the 300 Weatherby, 300 H&H, 300 WSM, 300 Winchester, Remington SAUM and Ultra Mags and possibly the .30-378, .300 Dakota and both Lazzeroni long and short mags all being lumped in. Wow. That's a choice or two, anyway.

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from Happy Myles wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wow, what a fire storm . Let the dust settle and Jack Reneau Director of Records, Boone & Crockett will explain these questions. He is a class act and will answer our questions
Why is anyone surprised about bow hunting being high on the list? Longer seasons, hunt during rut, less hunters disturbing animals and more interest in B & C/P &Y records. I hunt with a bow in areas where big animals are available. Must state, I have never entered a trophy in any book or contest. Yes, have taken many that would qualify

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To me this list is not a surprise based on BC record entries. Now, I think we need to look at this 30.06 "following" myth. Not saying the old .06 isn't popular, but as WA mentioned if I looked at our hunting camp three of us OWN a 30.06, but we hunt with a couple of different calibers, as well. I would say the .300 mags are taking the lead over the odd-6 in many places whether that extra power is necessary to kill an amimal is another story.
I still believe the .270 makes a better all around big game round over the .06; less recoil, flatter(by alittle)shooting, and can handle any deer sized animal just easily. Sure, the heavier bullets of the .06 can handle Elk better, but if I wan to take an Elk, I'll take my .35 Whelen or 45/70 to do that task.

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry to sound so wound up, y'all. Usually my BS detector starts going off when two different people have to offer multiple explanations (no offense to Mr.Renau). If Happy is speaking up for you, you must be at least moderately tolerable. I'll hold out for your response to my, ahem, stewing...

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
Thanks for the "rest of the story." I didn't even realize that cougars, musk ox, and bison were on the B&C
trophy list.

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B and C Records
Thank you for the valuable information and taking the time to answer our questions.

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from B and C RECORDS wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

BEEKEEPER
If you go to the Boone and Crockett Club Website www.booneandcrockettclub.com the article on the top gives the top three of each category. As I said earlier, the options for recording entries has been expanded and from here out I can tell you how many WSM, H&H, and Ultra's have been entered starting with all entries received after 1/1/2010 other than the top three I don't know as the other calibers are fairly represented. Not perfect but the best we could do with what we had.
For the non-common fans the .35 Whelen, 30-378, 338-06, 260's, .280's, 340 Weatherby etc. now have their own category.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B AND C RECORDS

That non-common category mentioned in your post above contains some of my favorite elk cartridges! Rock on!

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from AlaskanExile wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Great discussion guys! Now if you want to really learn something, go to B&C's website and look up their rules on "Fair Chase" and see what it says. It will be an education for some of you who think of yourselves as the example of an "ethical hunter". If it's not you it's someone you know.
I had to use B&C's rules printed from their website a few years back to "correct" the ways of an older gentleman who was new to hunting and bragging about his hunting "success". He was wounding game at ranges well beyond his ability or equipment, and having to chase the animal for miles.
Reading the standards in black and white was enough to cause him to see the error of his ways. He had no idea, what "Fair Chase" really means, and I bet some of you don't either. B&C/SCI/P&Y don't allow any trophies that aren't taken under their standards of Fair Chase.
Just my two-cents
AKX

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from kolbster wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

here is top list for the average hunter these arent really in order.
30-06
30-30
270 win
308 win
7mm mag
243
300 mag
bow
ML/shotgun
and the last spot is up for grabs
maybe 6mm or 257, 280

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from Carney wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Well. I'm finally in a "majority group". 300 win mag suits me!

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from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

If you follow the link posted by WA Mtnhunter, you will find a species-specific listing - which is lot more informative than the overall listing.

The top 3 for whitetail deer: 1.) Bow/crossbow, 2.) Muzzleloader/shotgun, 3.) .270

Which I think says more about hunting regulations than the relative merits or hunter's fondness for any particular caliber.

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from bradpareis wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thank God some folks still get B&C big game with a 30-30, now I won't have to hide mine in a case and take it out to the truck under the cover of darkness....

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from ricefarm wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sitting in the midwest in the heart of whitetail country I can tell you in my part of the world the number of hours bowhunters spend in their stands dwarfs what shooters do, even though in terms of pure numbers there are more guys going out for the shooting weekends. Virtually all of the bowhunters I know are strictly trophy hunters.
Trying to predict what weapon or caliber is being used around the country on a variety of species based on what goes on in your part of the world is about like assuming the weather in your backyard is representative of the whole country. However any article that gets this many people fired up has to get an A+. Good work, Dave.
To the B&C people, if you think you are taking heat you need to read the comments section here more often. This passes for no more than a polite discussion in this group.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

David

We just didn't want to rile you! The .338 Win Mag IS probably the best big game cartridge around for those who like 12 pound rifles or don't mind the noise generated by the sound of their shoulder blades clapping together. I bought one in 1989 because I thought it was the Alpha and Omega of elk rifles. After that Winchester M70 kicked the stuffing out of me trying to get it zero'd at the range, I punted to the .35 Whelen and have never regretted it. You can't kill 'em deader than dead. The .35W, 7mm Weatherby, and .30-06 are about the upper limit for me.

What say you?

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from wingshooter54 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Couldn't resist another comment;
Without argument,the whitetail deer is the most hunted big game animal in America. Probably why the bow/crossbow was no. 2 at 16%. Figure out the ft. lbs. of energy for an arrow leaving the bow/crossbow at 375 fps. and it will be similar to that of a 22 Hornet. It ain't energy that kills, but complete penetration through the vital area. Whitetails, even big whitetails, don't demand large calibers or magnum velocities. Having said that, I just acquired a Ruger no 1 in 9.3x74. The excuse was to shoot hogs, but hell, I just wanted one. I also have on layaway a .257 Weatherby for next season. Large, open, wheat and peanut fields might strain my 7x57 a little. Makes a good excuse anyway, which is what gun nuts do.

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from davidpetzal wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To WAMTnHuntr: I'll go part of the way with you. A .338 is about right at 9 pounds with scope, which isn't all that heavy, and after your retinas loosen and your hip sockets pop you don't mind it so much. I happen to love recoil, so that's my choice--but you could do as well with a .30/06.

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from wingshooter54 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Yohan:
The 9.3x74 is over 100 years old and basically the ballistic twin to the 9.3x62. It is a rimmed cartridge invented for single shots, combination guns, and double rifles. During WWII, the Luftwaffe issued "survival" combo guns (shotgun/rifle) to their pilots in North Africa. Find one of those, and you are a rich man at the next gun auction. I probably don't really have a use for mine, but it will kill a whitetail very, very dead with minimum meat loss due to bullet impact.

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from blueridge wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Petzel...

You are the consummate crank-artist.

Keep it up.

Blue

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
My Winchester Model 70 in .338 tips the scale at nine lbs. with scope, sling, and 8 rounds. It is not a shoulder breaker, likes a 180 gr. Nosler Accubond, but neither is it something you want to shoot over the bench all day. The .30-'06 gets to go more because it weighs about two and a half lbs less. That .340 Weatherby IS a shoulder breaker, judging by the limited amount I have shot one. Don't know what load I was shooting, though.

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from steve182 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal,
If there was anyone i'd like to trade jobs with... You'd make that list. I like recoil too.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

To many people still believe velocity kills.

Can't believe I got in this late for the ruckus.

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from Kerby wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Following is two cents worth. I own a 7mm mag, a .44 mag handgun and rife, some 12Ga shotguns, a .50 cal inline and, a compound bow. I don't get to use my 7mm much, it requires a trip up to northern MI. I hunt state land in Southern MI (no centerfire/rimfire rifes allowed). So, 90% of the time I hunt with a 12Ga shotgun and/or .44 mag handgun. I hunt muzzleloading season with the .50. I quit bow hunting 'cause it interferes with waterfowl season ( just can't find the time to do it all). And, even though I like my 7mm mag( it does not kick as hard as the Deerslayer 12Ga ) I told my son he should get a .30.6 or .308 ( the ammo is more reasonably priced ). If I would ever be serious about hunting trophy whitetail in MI I'd pickup the bow, first in the field 3x the time.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

i love the consept of the 270 winchester.. sadly there are better round out today, but still, have the same discussion 100 years from now and personally i think the newish 270wsm is gonna be on that same list, even if it only gets the percentage the 270win got today. and it will have surpassed it.. im pretty sure.. i want it, any sponsors?? rifletesters out there?? gimme gimme :D

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

That is the first time that I learned that an arrow is a cartridge. I don't think that is a fair representation of " average" hunters putting meat in the freezer. The 30-06 and the 308 would surely be up on the list. Made for good dicussion anyway.

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from Brian Robinson wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Personally I think the 30-06 has many pratical advantages over any of the 30cal magnums.

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from halconen wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Tony C great choice with your 7mm-08 for deer. And it does make the original list. It comes in at number 3 as it falls into the .270 category.

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Again, this is for the most popular rounds.

Not a list for most sensible, most effective, most flat-shooting, most numb-em-right-where-they-stand-and-drop-em-dead cartridges.

Most popular.

34% (combined) of hunters preferred the "standard" or mild-magnum (7mm) rounds. The .270 shoots flat, the .30-06 throws a heavier bullet and hits harder. The 7mag (at Remington levels) somehow combines flat trajectory with heavy bullet. A big portion of hunters still chose this performance level. The 3 cartridges are common enough to ensure reliable supply anywhere in NAmerica, recoil is within tolerance limits of most North Americans, and the performance is adequate for most game not called "bear". Looks like the ingredients for "popular" to me.

Those who stepped up a bit chose the various .300 magnums. They accounted for 18%. I think that's very reasonable.

Those who could go heavier than .300 are understandly fewer, so we see fewer .338s and .375s.

We also see fewer 6mms and .25s because people want a gun that would handle a wider range of game.

I still can't explain the .308's low share though. Maybe they're just not into B&C registration. Or they happened to have left their .308 at home that particular day, and carried a .30-06 or .300 mag instead, then anchored a buck or bull and registered it. Remember, just because a hunter shot an animal with a .300mag doesn't mean he/she shoots that caliber exclusively.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Check out the Readers Poll from a year or two ago on this site:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/pages/gun-nut-survey-highly-biased-unoffic...

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from Tracer-Round wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

No one likes a blurred wet scope to see through. I might not be holding true, but to me it looks like you’re presenting ‘a hunter must have these’ if they want to better their chances to qualifying for the B&C pages. B&C is nice, but ‘Joe the Plummer’ couldn’t give a hoot. Or what was the purpose of your survey? Not to be a Spock, but it’s all logical really. I can understand the .270 as #3; it’s probably agreed that most big game hunters predominately go whitetail only and the .270 works really well. However, I live & hunt in central Colorado and we have a happiness of going 2 directions, east for 'lopes, west for mulies & wapiti. Having enough kill power at longer than 100 yard distances is the norm. Chasing down wounded, ran-off elk is not good at all. There are whitetails in Co, but not my direction. The .270 is an excellent choice for mulies, but it’s on the low side of acceptable cartridges for elk through various agreements. So the 30’s are my logical, affordable choices; 300 WM for primary and 30-06 for back-up and pronghorn. .308 would be my next choice. The archers & muzzys have it nice but . . . as one writer put it, take out the ‘modern’ cams and in-lines, and those numbers will change. But we’re past the 20th Century, not likely to go back. I use a .223 Rem for coyotes & prairie dogs, and don’t have/use either a 6mm or .243, so I’m set. Start by including a higher number of hunters in your survey that go a) on their own accords, b) still vote for hunting rights and c) don’t necessarily go or yet get B&C recognition. If these samples present a skewed or blurry picture, then do the surveys again, but correctly. Oh yeah, can ‘food-plot’ deer still qualify for B&C? Oh, okay then its fuzzy logic.

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from ejunk wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

out of curiosity, why are you surprised by the bow/crossbow placement? I have zero empirical evidence, but in my experience a greater proportion of archery only hunters veer towards trophy hunting than do gun only hunters.

yrs-
Evan!

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from Tony C. wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

It's not going to make anyone's list, but I've been doing some hunting with a 7mm-08 lately and I just think it's terrific. My gun is the Ruger M77 Compact, a short little stubby thing that rides great in a truck and is real handy in the brush or in a tight treestand.

The lack of recoil is what I most enjoy. I shot a deer the other day. There was no recoil and I actually watched through the scope as the deer absolutely crumbled in its tracks.

I also own a .300 Win Mag and a 30-06, but the 7mm-08 is what I find myself reaching for as I go out the door. I bought it for my kids to hunt deer with, but I use it way more than they do. I'll probably carry it instead of the .300 on my next elk hunt.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

These are all good rounds, Dave. Your own list would look little different than this one (in fact except for the 7mm Rem., you have all these rounds in the cartridge guide you wrote a couple of years ago). .300 Magnums are a little heavy for deer and pronghorn, but about right for everything else, so them being #1 is probably about right.

I think Greenhead nailed it first man out of the blocks. It would seem to me that a trophy hunter will be more likely to overgun himself to more surely bag critters which did not live long enough to grow those big antlers/horns/skulls by being stupid, and will NOT be standing broadside in a clearing at 100 yards when he gets his shot.

This is just guessing, though. I can't speak from experience how a trophy hunter thinks. I'm ashamed to admit I'll shoot anything legal; 'if it's brown, it's down.' Beggars can't be choosers.

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from Teodoro wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I know in-line muzzleloaders are a far cry from what Boone was toting, but how do the flintlocks used in (for example) late season in PA compare?

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from jjas wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I'm not surprised that bows are #2. With sprawl putting an end to gun hunting in more areas every year, it's bow or nothing.

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from MLH wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Not P&C - meant P&Y (Pope & Young) - trying to do too many things at once.

Jack - Thank you for your insights. Does B&C set limits for bow let-off?

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from hengst wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

btw 6% ok fine what about the other 94%

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from bthomasb1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WOW thtas a lot of nerves being hit for the record WA Mtn Hunter i know 4 people who own 300 saum's and 2 who own lazzeroni's. not being smart just saying,and all 6 guns are owned by differant people and 2 dont hunt just shoot for fun

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from Roost323 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

good article

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Justin,

Thanks for your hard work and number crunching ability! Would you mind breaking out the entries by percentage and species for us sometime. Just curious...

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from dickgun wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Dave,
Obviously a great post judging by the number of responses before I even reviewed it! Now, to be a little more specific, we need to have surveys which separate the categories into sensible groupings. What are bow and arrow doing in a gun survey - but it was not a gun survey - I guess. What are little guns doing in survey with big guns. Appropriate calibers depend on what you are going to hunt. If all you hunt is white tail deer in close forest you do not need much gun. That gun would not fit into a group that would represent hunting BIG BEAR. Nor would it fit into a group that would hunt mountain game where 400 yds is a taken for granted shot. But it is, without doubt, a great gun for what it does well.
So, interesting survey, but not too representative of anything, in my opinion.

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I know P&Y is the 'exclusive' record book, altho like most, I started not knowing B&C also listed game taken with archery.

I really don't know what the fuzz is all about. Maybe the .30-06 shooters just don't submit a B&C that much. And if you're a 7mag or .30-06 fan, you can always cite sales records of both ammo and reloading dies to prove your point.

getting off the pulpit now.

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from elmer f. wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

well, from this it apears that trophy hunters do not want to chase their deer after they shoot ti. i can not imagine that the 30-06 places 4th, while the 300 magnum is first (and i own & deer hunt w / a 300 mag)! i would have thought that two sticks and a string would have been in the top five, but 2nd sure suprises me. i would like to see a real poll of what everybody out there really hunts with, because i do not believe this to be a true average slice of the pie. so, Dave, set up such a poll, post a link to it on here, and lets see what the real truth is. 375 magnum also suprises me. i thought that i would have been the only one that would seriously consider using a rhino gun on a whitetail deer!

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from Bryan01 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

B and C Records,

Thanks for responding to all the questions. I only hear about B&C when it comes to individual trophy animals. In one of your posts, you stress the conservation angle of the organization - it would be nice to hear more about that. I would imagine you have something on that on your website - and I intend to look, but if you have a link to information about your conservation work, it would be appreciated.

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from ejunk wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Glad to see someone from B&C arriving to talk about the subject, but surprised at the defensiveness of the initial responses. relax. it's just the friggin' internet. subsequent (less defensive) responses were interesting and educational!

yrs-
Evan!

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from Gritz wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I was not surprised at all with the results of the numbers. However, I might not know enough about B&C because I would never submit and would not even know how to if I wanted to, but I am curious that no handgun cal's showed up. I have been seeing many more .44's walking around the woods these days. I guess not enough to make it into a top 10. Also, I was told but did not believe that I would feel this way, but I am an avid ml hunter and it hurt a little that we are all lumped into the same big category (with shotguns no less). To hunt with a flintlock, patch and ball should not be put into the same category as a saboted, 3.5 inch magnum 12 gauge or a 150 gr magnum inline that can group sub moa at 200 yards. Strange. I would never have thought of myself as a purist until I saw these things grouped together.

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from Tom-Tom wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Justin--

If you could access data reporting the total sale of ammunition by caliber from the three largest manufacturering companies, then extract the data for the most recognized calibers used for whitetail deer and compare the percentages of sales for each caliber to your list of percentages of calibers of B&C entrants, that may be a valid comparison. As stated by many previously, even if your end result would show that "X" caliber accounts for 26.89% of total sales and also accounts for 25-30% of total B&C entries, I doubt that many will convert from our personal favorite(s). Your work so far is very interesting and stimulating.

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from davidpetzal wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I am very disappointed that no one has jumped on my comment about the .338 being the best all-around NA big-game cartridge. (Unless I missed a comment.) Kindly straighten up everyone.

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from JohnR wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Double ditto ricefarm! That was a very insightful statement. LOL, WA Mtnhunter I haven't heard that expression ($h1t from Shinola )in quite a while.
Add to the equation people like me who will hunt with my M1A in .308 most of the deer season, and the one or two days I hunt with my Model 70 in 30-06 I harvest a deer. Yet I would have to report that I hunted mostly with the .308. I am sure there are more of us here who hunt with different caliber rifles during one hunting season.

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from JohnR wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Cartridge Rifle Recoil Recoil
Weight Energy Velocity

.338 Marlin Express (200 at 2400) 8.0 16.2 11.4
.338-57 O'Connor (200 at 2400) 8.0 19.2 12.4
.338 Federal (210 at 2630) 8.0 21.9 13.3
.338-06 A-Square (250 at 2500) 8.5 28.2 14.6
.338 Win. Mag. (200 at 2950) 8.5 32.8 15.8
.338 Win. Mag. (250 at 2700) 9.0 33.1 15.4

Dave, I would agree that the last three .338's above would be the best all around American shoulder thumper
;-)!
For Comparison Sake

Cartridge Rifle Recoil Recoil
Weight Energy Velocity

30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 10.6 9.5
.30-30 Win. (170 at 2200) 7.5 11.0 9.7
.300 Sav. (150 at 2630) 7.5 14.8 n/a
.307 Win. (150 at 2600) 7.5 13.7 10.9
.308 Marlin Express (160 at 2660) 8.0 13.4 10.4
.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5 15.8 11.7
.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0 17.5 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6 11.9
.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 12.8

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from wingshooter54 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wonder what the chances of the 300 magnum being no 1 would be if Roy Weatherby had kept selling insurance instead of being a gun nut?
Not having any listings in Boone & Crockett, I am hardly an expert; but the 7x57 ranks no 1 with me. Everything I have shot with it has dropped to one shot. Usually in their tracks; a few have traveled as far as 15-20 ft.

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from JohnR wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Oops! Never mind, my chart didn't post like I had set it up!

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from luckytexan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Great article, lots of interesting discussion, but I don't understand the fuss about a particular cartridge not making the top 10 list. This list details mostly calibers, not particular cartridges, with only three exceptions: .30/06, the 30-30, and possibly the .308. (The list as published here doesn't specify .308 Win, but it doesn't include the .30/06 and .30-30, nor the .300 Savage based on Mr. Reneau's comments here.)

There's a lot of different .30 caliber magnum cartridges, so it doesn't surprise me that all .30 cal mags combined come out on top. What is really surprising is how well the .30/06 and the .30-30 stand up to other combined calibers.

What I would find interesting is to parse the raw data two separate ways: One list arranged solely by caliber, and another list arranged solely by cartridge. Just how many of those .270's were the .270 Win? Are the Weatherby Mag and WSM cartridges lumped in there as well?

Right now, the only broad conclusion that we can be sure of from the list as published here is that 86% of B&C trophies are taken with a firearm, and not one of the calibers listed has an overwhelming presence. Personally, I love the variety. It would be a poor world with only one kind of cartridge or caliber.

luckytexan

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wingshooter - that ought to make one heck of a hog gun!

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from sgaredneck wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Have seen em 400+ and not tame....and NOT happy! forget about hogzilla or any of that BS - try being in a thicket, in mud, with one mad and close!
Ask DakotaMan - he's been down in these parts.

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from AlaskanExile wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Dr. Petzal;
I'm with you. I think the 338 Winchester Magnum is the ultimate big game rifle for North America, the world, really, however it's more recoil than a lot of people can take.
I hunt everything with mine. I can't speak for anyone else, I just know what works for me. If what you use works for you buddy, good on ya!

The 270 placement didn't surprise me. When you visit Cabela's (store #1) in the fall 270 has it's own end cap/ the boxes of 270 ammo are 4-1 over anything else in number. That many Huskers can't be wrong.
AKX

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from Mark-1 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wow. DP and B & C have defiled the Inner Sanctum and spouted Heresy. The Reactionaries have crawled out of the woodwork….talking. I can believe B & C figures. …Times change. IMHO:

300 Mags offer extra powder not available in ’06 size or 308 cases. I can understand why a hunter would want 300 Mag’s for deer and real NA Big Game.

338 Mag is marvelous medium factory cartridge and will be used more by NA Hunters. I love the way 225 and 250 grain bullets overwhelm Big Game. I prefer 35 Whelen and 338-06 only because I like 22” barrel. IMHO 338 need at least a 24” barrel. I predict the future one rifle hunter will have a fine 338 Mag rifle instead of a fine 30-06.

I think folks will play with an AR Platform, but there’s no way an AR Platform makes a big game rifle. If it was otherwise we all be using semi-auto since the 50’s

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from Happy Myles wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Congratulations and thank you Boone & Crockett for willingly stepping in and participating in this forum. I have a hunch most organizations would have not done so, at least not as promptly. B & C is our country's oldest conservation founded by Teddy Roosevelt.
As I mentioned earlier, Jack Reneau is a class act and will follow up on all inquiries.
Would like to reemphasize the earlier comment that White Tail deer represent 25% of entered animals. Looking at the 12th Edition Record Book there are more than 80 tied for last place, number 3381 for typical deer. Non typical, over 20 tied for last ranking number 2387.

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from sarg wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Well, It really doesn't matter who or what org. says this is tops or that is the top calibre, I'll still use my .308 win, Rem 700. Shoot what you want, don't argue that a certain cartridge is the top cal. unles you survey more people than B&C records Say.... All B&c can say is that these are the top cartridges that WE know...

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from sarg wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Shoot what you want, shoot what you like, I'llstick with my trusty .308. Several other cartridges are more popular, but after shooting a .300Win. mag the other day, I wouldn't carry it for deer here in E. Ky. If you gave it to me. If you want to shoot a .300win mag at 75yds ,Go ahead That's what makes Guns and shooting so much fun.Like the old Army Saying Goes,(SMOKE'M if you GOTE'M...)

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from sarg wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sorry about the double POST, Didn't realized there were two pages, Good post Dave....

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter

My 338 Win Mag either shot by me or someone else especially the 4 years in Alaska, all one shot bang flops with a bit of hamburger and no trailing needed!!

225 grain Hornady's thumping right at 3000 fps dead on at 225 yards and 250 grain Noslers thumping at 2830ish dead level at 100 yards and just a tad 1/4 inch to the right, how better can you get!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No argument from me that the .338 Win mag is a superior big game cartridge. I just don't care for the recoil coupled with the blast. Wanna beat it? Get a .340 weatherby Mag! LOL

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from hunting022 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, I am as suprised as you. Out of the top 12 I have 3, .270,.308, muzzleloader/shotgun. I have taken many animals with all 3 and actually prefer my .308's.
My next purchase will be a 30-06 as plans are afoot for a trip west for larger than deer sized game, and I can't see the use of anything much larger than that. Somebody really needs to poll the real hunting world and get those results posted.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

crm3006

My .35 Whelen is something not to be shot all day at the bench either with 225 gr loads. My .30-06 that doesn't quite touch the 7 pound mark loaded with 165's will snap you to attention too! But it is a joy to carry in the mountains for an old coot like me and you! Most of the .340 Wby's you see have those darn muzzle brakes installed. That would be your first hint at their recoil.

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from AlaskanExile wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Clay; How much "magic powder" were you using to get 3000 fps from your 338 Win with 225 grain bullets?

I have a cousin who swears he gets 7mm Remington Magnum performance from his 7mm Mauser handloads, but I don't hunt or go to the range with him.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

AlaskanExile

You are a wise man no doubt. Pixie dust I'm sure....

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from Ferber wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Oh, yes, Dave. Many surprises. Many moons ago I shot the .338 for the first time ar Russ Carpenter's place with Bob Elman and another notable, observing. This in advance of a British Columbia grizzly bear hunt we were about to experience. Bob was commissioned by the old and long defunct--but excellent--publication, American Sportsman, to write a piece on the hunt. Bob asked me to come along to photograph the event...and kill if he didn't feel comfortable shooting if a less-than-ideal opportunity presented itself. (What? Me take the blame
for making a lousy shot?). Like most all of us I wouldn't shoot either if I wasn't sure I would take the beast. Moot point since we never saw a grizz...though I got close a few times. (Sasquach-sized tracks still filling up with water!).

The Winchester I sighted-in was accurate and not uncomfortable to shoot but I never used it again only because I got a Weatherby .340 soon after, which has seen a lot of use.

Great cartridge, the .338, as is, or in the slightly faster Weatherby version.

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from RichardF wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would agree with the list. Point being archery seasins for whitetails being the longest, truely I am supprised that they are not #1 then the .300 mags would take care of the majority of the big game animals out west. The rest are a crap shoot. I guess the 30-06 and 308 are falling due to the new 300 rounds.

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The 30-06 is al the gun anyone needs fo all types of hunting. From a 55 gr to a 220 gr. so many variables. I just love guns, and got more than anyone needs to hunt with. I just enjoy rubbig, polishing thr nice walnut, but Walnt is goona be Historey soon. Go to mot gun shops and its all Syns. Me,and it only m, iI feel the 30-06 eith l5 gr or l80 for Elk will take them doen if you place your hot proper. Now for Lopes I love my 25-06. Al my hunting guns ( not plinkes r benh stuff is Walnutand well maintained in my safe. I'm told the larger calibes better for long distace lke teh 300 min mag. My 30-0 with a Nion Monarch scpe will shot 2' grop out to 400 yds most days and I can;t seebeyon that distace at all. Us old 12 ga shotgun deer hunts behind a pack of dogs will ruin a centerfire huntr. Again, if I had to rid myself of all the guns I own for hunting, except It would be the 30-06 last to go. As for handguns, my S&W model 27 in 357 i enough handgun as well. But enjoy my Uberti 44-40 at the range now and then. ys lets al face it, we don;t have enough guns, best we go on a buying spee and maybe will be happy till next new Guns and Ammo catalog comes out. I pray no new ones out so soon in 2010 give us time to get over fall hnting of 2009/ However, guns ae a beter investment than the bank or DOW.With little or no risk, mostly a profit if bought at right store and right time.Now is a gd time f or denterfe, as its Duck time now.

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I still feel the 30-06 is the caliber of choice for most al NA game, Until l0 or so yrs ago, when I was able to ramble thru the woods shots were in he l00 yds or less. Now at my age and disabilities i must hut from a stand,. With that being the case i must make longer shots. I never dreamed i could make a 345 yd shot, but I di and one at 325 with the 25-06. With todays supped up ammo like he Scirocos in l0 gr and Winc. Ballastic tips 400 yds is not out of the realm of acuracy for long shots. Now,I must use a scope, as eyes fadding a tad. For past several yeas, i have made B/P shots in the 300 yds range using l50 grs (pellets and Powerbelt pointed tips Bullets). My secrete is not teh weapon, but the pratice, if you plan on making a Rockie Mtn Shot, you must be able to shot accurate to 400 yds if you gonna kill your game. I failed to praticeenough this year, and made 2 lousy shots, both under l00 yds, but did kill the animal on 2nd shot, I prefer a one shot kill. My health is out of wack and got topratice a lot morebefore next season. Dill kill a groundhog at l70 yds using a 22 mag scoed for 200 yds 2 weeks ago. Again, teh 30-06 is all I want to try,as at 74 bones rittle and the 06 is all I can handle,. Granted the 300 min mag will shoot further and straighter than the 06,but with the right ammo the 06 will hold its own to 400 yds. Shoot-um-straight and often. Be sure and check that zero before the hunt,weather flying, driving, or walking. Don;t depend on last yrs zero to be the same always.I've fund the Leupold Dual Dovce Tail to be the most accurate, strongest and stay zeroed than any mounting sysrem I;ve tried.. I use to think Weaver as the better,but not now. Once you set the bases (using nail polish )on all screws the Leupolds being of steel, they will as a rule stay on zero After 4 trips west by plane,they have remainded zero so far. Pratice, then pratice some more.If using a see-thru mount, you best check the Zero often, even during the hunt if posible,as they the most flemisy set up you can use.

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I still feel the 30-06 is the caliber of choice for most al NA game, Until l0 or so yrs ago, when I was able to ramble thru the woods shots were in he l00 yds or less. Now at my age and disabilities i must hut from a stand,. With that being the case i must make longer shots. I never dreamed i could make a 345 yd shot, but I di and one at 325 with the 25-06. With todays supped up ammo like he Scirocos in l0 gr and Winc. Ballastic tips 400 yds is not out of the realm of acuracy for long shots. Now,I must use a scope, as eyes fadding a tad. For past several yeas, i have made B/P shots in the 300 yds range using l50 grs (pellets and Powerbelt pointed tips Bullets). My secrete is not teh weapon, but the pratice, if you plan on making a Rockie Mtn Shot, you must be able to shot accurate to 400 yds if you gonna kill your game. I failed to praticeenough this year, and made 2 lousy shots, both under l00 yds, but did kill the animal on 2nd shot, I prefer a one shot kill. My health is out of wack and got topratice a lot morebefore next season. Dill kill a groundhog at l70 yds using a 22 mag scoed for 200 yds 2 weeks ago. Again, teh 30-06 is all I want to try,as at 74 bones rittle and the 06 is all I can handle,. Granted the 300 min mag will shoot further and straighter than the 06,but with the right ammo the 06 will hold its own to 400 yds. Shoot-um-straight and often. Be sure and check that zero before the hunt,weather flying, driving, or walking. Don;t depend on last yrs zero to be the same always.I've fund the Leupold Dual Dovce Tail to be the most accurate, strongest and stay zeroed than any mounting sysrem I;ve tried.. I use to think Weaver as the better,but not now. Once you set the bases (using nail polish )on all screws the Leupolds being of steel, they will as a rule stay on zero After 4 trips west by plane,they have remainded zero so far. Pratice, then pratice some more.If using a see-thru mount, you best check the Zero often, even during the hunt if posible,as they the most flemisy set up you can use.

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Archery at 16%? Why not?

Another way to look at it is this: Firearms, including muzzleloaders - 84%.

Remove the blackpowder portion, you have smokeless/centerfire at 74%.

Not bad.

And since the .270, .30-06 and 7mag (usually Remington) are considered the Top 3 big game rounds, and are practically equal in effectiveness when it comes to whitetail/mule deer/caribou and even elk sized animals (with proper bullets), their shares of 12, 11 and 11% overall are close enough to be almost identical. Their combined 34% is about one-third of total.

Again, not bad.

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from RobertBlogger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

That's a good list. However, I would have thought the 7mm magnum and the 308 would have been higher on the list.

www.Gunsellers.com

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from ericb622 wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Boone and Crockett is not really a representative cross section of hunters. Most entries are serious nimrods that are gonna use a little much than a little less. Plus, if you ask most guides and outfitters, they are gonna recommend a .300 magnum because it is going to anchor the animal faster than the lesser loads. Also, elk, mooses, 'bou, and bears are probably part of the survey not just deer. If you polled B&C whitetail, mule, and blacktail entries, I bet the .270 and 30'06 would be 1 and 2 and vice versa, with the .308 a close 3rd.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I'm an '06 lover as regular guys here know but, I will concede if I lived up north with elk, moose and possibly a bear encounter on my list regularly, AND I didn't own a .30 cal I would buy the 300 mag with 'premium' bullets to withstand the extra velocity and give those larger animals an extra thump. But, if I had an '06 to hunt these critters, I sure wouldn't buy a 300 if I thought I needed more power in that case I'd keep my '06 and buy a 338 or 358.

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from arosy123 wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

@ bthomasb1

I too know a few people who own 300 SAUM's...in fact, I own a 7mm SAUM myself. These really are great rounds. They have all the power of the standard 300 and 7mm magnums, but are more accurate and they use less powder. It's a shame the SAUM didn't catch on like the WSM did.

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from sbfish wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I am not surprized at the 270s rating .It is one of the most versitile guns

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from O Garcia wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I really feel bad about rounds introduced by Remington when they are pitted against Winchester counterparts. While Remington has had better success in centerfire 22's (.222, .223 and .22-250) and 7mm,

it lost in the 6mm category (the .25-06 doesn't count, because until the .25WSSM, Winchester didn't have an entry in that caliber).

The .280 lost to the .270

The 8mmRemMag lost to the .338, and now to the .325

The full sized Ultra Mags had a 2-year reign, then were pulled back down by the more practical WSMs. The big .338RUM is really no better than the .340Wby, and is not even a big factor in the sniper market, where the reigning ".338" is the Lapua. Heck, even Remington is being forced to offer its sniper rifle in .338Lapua, how embarrassing!

And even though Remington could show evidence that it was ahead in developing its SAUMs, it was late in introducing them, so they smashed into the WSM wall.

I think the .416 Remington is a great success for Remington, but now the .416 Rem. must contend with the .416 Ruger.

I wish Armalite or DPMS or Remington itself would develop an AR-10 chambered for the .300SAUM. I know they already exist, but they're an On again Off again item in the DPMS lineup. With snipers beginning to prefer semiautos for urban warfare in the war on terror, an AR-type in .300SAUM would not only offer added reach and punch, it just might save the SAUM line!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

If you ever fired an 8mm Remington Magnum or bought ammunition for it, one would understand its demise as a production elk rifle.

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from nigins wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

.300mag is definitely not a surprise. I think I have heard somewhere that it is fastest growing caliber, in popularity, across the nation. I just moved to Idaho from Ohio where centerfire rifles are judiciously limited to varmints only. I would say at least 25% of the people I have met shoot .300win mags. The others are mixed between 30-06, .308, .270, and the occasional .338.

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from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Greenhead I could not agree more, I know a lot of meat and potato hunters that are not concerned with trophies, rather bringing home meat for the freezer. my informal poll says; .30-06, .308, .25-06 are the top 3, with one hunter that likes to "reach out and touch" pronghorn with his magnums.

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from Slappy wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

The 300 and 7mm mags make a total mess out of deer and a 6mm as a big game round- WFT. The people in this survey were hunting for trophies- so they probably care more about range than a practical round. I'd guess the 30 06 would easily come in first in a broader survey, but I wouldn't tade my 308 for anything on the list.

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from Walt Smith wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wow I would have believed that the AR calibers would have been in there , with so many hunters switching over to the AR platform the .223 and 6,8spc should have been in there-NOT-He He Ha Ha!

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from jcarlin wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

My apologies "its directors."

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I would bet that there are very few .300 Remington SAUM, Dakota's, and Lazzeroni's in the pile. Know anyone who owns one? I don't.

There is not much differnce in the overall on-game performance of those big magnums anyway, IMHO.

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from steve182 wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Most lists(or polls) are bogus. This one included.
1. .30-06 no question
2. .30-30 inadequate? try telling all those ol'timers
3. .270 a classic versatile and beloved round
4. .300 mag(s)
5. .308

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No surprise on the .300 mag beating the 30-06. Hunters may have devoted themselves exclusively in times past to old classics such as the '06, but not anymore. The new generation of hunters is hunting smarter with better equipment, which includes choosing rounds such as the 7mm mag or the .300 mag over the 30-06. Yes, the 30-06 is a classic, no one is debating that...but it no longer holds unquestioned authority.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Just scanned this one ,. and WOW,. who would have thought we as a (group ) demographic ) would give much of a rats behind ,. makes me laugh,
yet not disrespectfuly . (so thank you one and all )
What occurs to me is that we the (hunting shooting population) have really changed ( a lot) as a group in that past decade or two.

Many golden sunsets ago Jack Oconner
pontificated( something he was very good at ) on the magic 270,.. as did others of his time ( Jon Jobson) - Sports Afied circ 1950's and 60's etc etc.

Yet seldom did we hear of shots exceeding 300yds

Except of course by Cactus Jack ( and his cronies) as he / they poured fire down a canyon or sendero (sp?) after a giant bounding mule deer (at 400 yds and counting) occasionly accompanied by back up fire from his wife ( Elinor-?) using a custom mauser 7 x57 with 16o grain bullets behind some magical weight of a certain powder.
(which I should say is a load I personally believe to have certian magical elements )

Other than that a long shot, for most of us .. was 250 yds.Hell 200 was a long poke.

Having shot roughly a semi load of white tails ( 110 +) I can and will say the longest shot I ever made was a fluke .
It was a paced off diatnce of 300 (just over but not much ) yards. With a whomped up 8x57 with open sightes. Only reason I took the shot was I knew almost exactly how far it was ( before range finders ) ,.there was utterly no wind and my brother who was standing next to me with a 35 Rem said
"Yo if thats 300 +/- do you know the hold over ?
I allowed as how I thought I did . at which point he said "Well then why dont you shoot that guy" ( deer)
Said "guy" ( deer) having stepped from the edge of a woods and just stood there ,for a long time,.. looking around.
"That guy" ( the deer) stood there too long.

Got a rest against a tree,. steadied up, and let one go.
One shot kill a little high and a little back,from the shoulder ,
The deer took a couple steps .looked around some more ,.. then over and out.
But the other 100 + for the most part fell at distances under 100 yds and truth be told most within what I guess to be 60- 70 yds.

I say all that as refernce point ,.
With the advent of the more technical approach to shooting / hunting ,.improved powder optics and projectiles IE: improved accuracy ,..
effective ranges for (the average AJ hunter dude) got longer.
Due in my humble opinon primarily to lower tragectory / and higher energy,.
Guys could did and do kill things with greater consistency at greater ranges.
But it took more powder and more noise to do it.

With great emphases by gun manufactures and writers ,..
on smoke poles that will shoot with great precision into the next zip code it is no suprise to me the big 30's
are used in bigger country for longer shooting .
It would also be no suprise that a fair amount of wounding occurs due to the avrage ( macho wanna be) pilgrim who has developed flinch of epic proportion.

My stadard today is 200yds,. if it decernably further i start hunting again (to get closer) ,.. once within that range I will shoot,.. ( why they call it hunting and not shooting) and here's another truth ,.
Never shot a bear ,.. except one couldn't avoid
(Had me on the meneu as lunch.)
Everthing else ( aside from deer ) NOT including that which will bite back,.

Meaning the big ones with houves and antlers ,.. all with an 8 x 57 all within 150 yds shooting 196 grain bullets at just a tad under 2600 fps.

Thusly fellow shooters ( and magnum blasters ) yuk yuk )
I will never say bigger isnt better in the literal sense with respect to the subject of killing
but as a parctical measure maybe not.

What I would find intersting is what geopgraphic area amd economic strata those who shoot expensive magnum projetiles come from.
Still understanding the later is essentially a
"data mining" impossibilty ,. the former would still be to me interstiong and possibly a telling factor.

YAW YAW 1st ve shoot da moose and den ve soot da bull
yuk yuk

But as long as I have been hunting most of it has been in the upper midwest and I have seen exactly three 300
mags two .338 win mags and one 375 H & H ,. which was carreid by a man I knew to be simply gun crazy at the time. He wanted to see the effect a 375 would have
on big Minnisota Whiteail. Vert funnt story but for another day .

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wing shooter ,. the "sports" in France like the 9.3 x 62 for hogs ,and stag ( doubles and bolts)
Not sure no time to look this second
Is 9.3 x 74 pretty much the metric counter part to .338 ?
Must have some hellish big hogs in Georgia ? YUK YUK

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wingshooter just punched up ballistics for both

9.3 x 74 and 9.3 x 62 ,..with 285 gr no practicle difference.

Hogs be ware ,.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Sgaredneck

Dont doubt you ,.. have never hunted big Po'd hogs
Whacked a couple smaller ones ( one with 170 gr 30-30 and bigger one with 45-70,.. but nothing over 225.

The idea of a 400lb anything,.. unhappy with your presence does turn a differnt light on it.
Only bear I ever shot ( not on purpose) was a black bear Dressed at 250 +,..
Said bruin clearly intended making me lunch ,. took two 196 gr 8x57 rounds ,. one to stop it,. and one to pay the insurance.
That scared me more than a big kitty who also clearly had designs on my tender parts. Expectation is probabaly a big part of it ,. IE: didnt expect brear bruin to attempt to eat me. Where I was certian the big kitty might take that attituide once I started to put holes in him.
Irritated 400 lb hog in a mud hole,.. is not (to me) a pleasant prospect.
9.3 x 62 or 74 probably appropriate medicine.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Wingshooter ,. Thank you,..
for jogging my memeory ,. was aware of 9.3 x 74 ,when I saw "rimmed case" it all came back that Lufteaffe issued this weapon.

As an aside ,.in the late days of WWII
my father (haveing made it through the battle of the bulge ( one of 3 left in his company ) managed to send home some German rifles in tact.
Which was a trick.as many arrived with fireing pins welded to bolt faces or worse.
But he had by that time made some connections and belive it or not ,.had a shot at just what you mentioned .

It gets better
As one of the fist few troups through the gates of Dachau seeing what he saw and hearing what they had done in Norway( born in Norway )He openly hated and dispised Nazies until his death ,
But was also suspect of anything and anyone "German",. for a very long time.
Thankfully he finally was able to distinguish the differnce between a Nazi, SS officer . and a German farmer forecd to fight in that war.

Even so he was always impressed with German small arms. As he said "having been on the busines end of the Kraut small arms you couldnt help but be impressed unless or until they killed you".

Some how he had the chance to get hold of (two) single shot rifles in that caliber.9.3x74 for what he said was "next to nothing". Supposdly out of German bombers.

He decided against it becasue his thinking at the time was hard to find amunition,. and just too much gun for deer hunting in WI yuk yuk
Ah yes ,.and so it goes

Have a good day.;

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Don;t know wher the #'s came from, but not from my boks and catalogs.
# 1 is still the 30-06
#-2 -------------270
#-3----------------300,min Chester
4-4----------------30-30
All the remainder fill the final gaps. THe 30-06 and the 300 win man will kill anything we hunt in NA other than mabye a Griz or Brownie. The 06 and the 300 will kill the Griz if a well placed shot, but be sure it'swell placed. I know guy who killed one 3 weeks ago with a 270, shot him in the eye Another neighbor uses a 22 mag,shoots between the eye and ear, never fails, has a 50 mm scope and a gret wo0dsman '. I Also, love my 25-06 for deer size game, and Lopes,bu did by my fist 270 for the heck of it, mostly due to the price of Marlins XL7, Shoos like dream to bull with a Nikon Monatch scope. Zeroed at 200 yds,and will put them within 2-3' till bbl get too hot.

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Thr older article is much more to my liking! A lot more information.

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from Salvatore wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

All are great rounds in my opinion, and all seem to have their on purpose and specialty.

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from 3030forlife wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

A true list of average hunters would be somthing like this(in no particular order)
30-06
30-30
270
308

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from Redbone wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Not suprised at all about the bow. I see more and more bow hunters in the woods every fall. My pick is the 308. Unfortantly I have to hunt with a 12ga where i go.

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from tbogg10 wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

wow i always thought the 30/06 was the most popular big game rifle, but archery is no surprise because of the amount of time it allows in the woods.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I’ll stick to what is tried and proven, the WSM’s and WSSM’s just don’t thrill me. Performance vs cost isn’t worth bringing one of the cartridges on line. My 22-250, 25-06, 6.5x55, 30-06 and my 338 Win Mag always delivered at all ranges just as good if not better than any other round. Not only have I believed there better, they are more supportable in which I can make my own cases. 25-06 I use 270, 280 and 30-06 and for my 338 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag work really good. Even if the WSM’s or WSSM’s may be just 150 feet per second faster, 2 ½ times the cost trying to feed the darn thing just isn’t worth the hassle. As for the 25 WSSM, it’s 100 fps slower than a 25-06 so go figure.

Bottom line

If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it!

If it’s working flawlessly, don’t dink with it!

Whatever blows up your Kilt and you’re happy with it,

GO FOR IT!

Just call me an OLD DIE HARD!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Back in 86-90 the 416 was popular down in the Anchorage AK area, but not so around Fairbanks. 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag was the more popular round in the interior of Alaska followed by the 375 H&H

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from Gunslinger wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Ijust read a book by JAck O'Conner and got the impresson, the 270 was a joke with him, not his # 1 gun to hunt with. I'd say the 06 was his gun of choice. Most of my hunting has been with the Shotgun and the 30-30 untilI started going to the rockies to hunt. I tried seveal calibers ad decide the 06 ws about all i cold/wanted to handle.With the newer Ammo now available,lke the Rem SCirocco's in l80 gr, it will each out there as well ss the 300 win mag and shoot much flatter and as accuate to 400 yds. Dubt many of us gona shot that far or further. 4 foot-ball fields a long distance.
As for he ASUM's and WSM's don;t dare think they gonna be arnd as long s the 30-30. 0,, 0r 308. A good writter friend of mine, when I ask his opinon about a Western gun,told me not to sell my regular 25-06' or 30-06 or 30-30, as the SAUM and WSM's was not long for the hunting world,maybe for the bench, but when accuracy comes into place,continue to use old faithfl 06. If i had to eliminatre all my fiearms these ae the one's i would keep:
#1- 30-06
#2- 25-06
#3- 270
#4-30-30
#5-22 SemiAuto LR
#6-44-40 5 l/2"
#7- Con.Carry a 2 l/2 22 mag
#8- Hunting in dangerous Game Country a 44-40 5l/2" bbl.

Now only need one shotgun, Remingto 1100 in 12 ga.
These are my primary hunting weapons, the remander, show and tell, trade and swap on.
I pray at age74, the day is far off that I will not be a gun and hunting nut. Never wanted all the guns, just one of each I like.
Almost forgot Black Powder
1: Encore in 50 Caliber Walnut stock and a few changeable bbls for Pest control, like Coyotes and Foxes.What-ever you use/own, shoot often and pratice a lot.When crunch tmes comes the pratice will pay great dividends.. Good hunting guy,hope you were successfl in 209. Got the deer of my dreams, a 290 lb(not field dressed) 10 point w-tail, that slpped into out core area and no one knew he was around,or if they did was hush hushHopefuly he left many genes for later years for my family.

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from sarg wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

My list of big Game cartridges is easy,

.308
.308
.308
.308
you shoot what you want, I'll shoot my .308

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from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 11 weeks ago

Many thanks to Mr. Petzal and the gentlement from B&C for posting this very interesting info. It is nice to see factual information like this. As hunters in America, the firearms we shoot have been accumulating for over a century now. Many of us have grandpa's and dad's old rifle and are still happy to be able to hunt with it. At the same time, new cartriges continue to be introduced constantly. The actual new cartriges being bought each year are heavily influenced by marketing dollars, ink (written articles), and shelf space (e.g. what Walmart sells). At the same time, technological advancements like better telescopic sights, mass production of higher quality barrels and emergence of the AR platform cause a gradual change in what becomes the norm in the hunting field. There are many 30-06s and .270s in closets across America and they continue to be sold, yet the 7mm mag and 300 mags are climbing because they close the longer range gap left by those vererable oldies. The black powder and archery numbers climb as states limit access to centerfire hunting and extend those seasons. I was most surprised to see that the .375, considered to be an African cartrige, to account for 2% of B&C records. I predict that number will climb in coming decades as more rifles are sold in this amazing big game caliber. In the future it would be good to see these statistics arranged by decade, by quarry, by location and finally by cartrige... numbers are most interesting and this is a great source for factual numbers. By the way, I don't mind using great cartriges that don't make the records. I used a 25-06 before Remingon adopted it. I also hunt with a .300 Dakota because I feel it is more accurate and has lower recoil than most of its .300 mag neighbors while extending my effective range substantially over the 30-06. Thanks again.

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from autoloader wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

No love for the .35 Remington? It's a proven round and has probably taken as many deer as the ol' .30/30. The 200 grain Core Lokts hit hard, you just have to get a little closer to your target. My first rifle was my granddad's Remington Model 8. Whatever I got in it's sights went down on the spot.

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from born2hunt7 wrote 4 years 10 weeks ago

I think that is because of all the hoopla given by those "gun" experts of what is the best cartridge out there. What are these peopl hunting? Elefants ? Long before all of these magnum craze the old 06 and the 30-30 put a lot of meat on the table. Those elks and moose were dead dead. Another point is that those who kill "trophy" game do it on very expesive and selected places where the common man cannot hunt or better said, afford> I have hunted for years with my old 30-30 and 06 and every game I have harvested has been dead, dead. I close the distance (love it when is close and I can feel the beast breath ) I'm not disappointed with the results because I know it does not show the total harvested game, it only shows the "trophy" results. I know better..

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from lshenke wrote 4 years 9 weeks ago

I think you would enjoy trying my Remington Model 721 264 Win Mag with its new 30 inch Shilen barrel and new Nikon Buckmaster 6-18 scope with BDC (not sighted in yet). I have loaded 95gr Vmax, 100gr HP and 100gr BT with 67grs H4831 pushing each with next to no recoil. The only thing that might discourage meeker Hunters is its 12.5 lbs weight.

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from jwallen wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

Do I understand this correctly that it is the last three years and not all time? If it is just the last three years then it would be slewed to fads and not quite represent the overall usage?

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from mr_A wrote 2 years 40 weeks ago

I would think that the 30/30 kills more deer each year that all others put together.

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