Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

Merwin: The Great Braid Debate

Recent Comments

Categories

Recent Posts

Archives

Syndicate

Google Reader or Homepage
Add to My Yahoo!
Add to My AOL

The Honest Angler
in your Inbox

Enter your email address to get our new post everyday.

May 13, 2009

Merwin: The Great Braid Debate

By John Merwin

There hasn’t been much discussion of braided lines--so-called superlines--around here yet, so here are a few comments for openers.

Superlines have some major advantages over nylon monofilament, mostly because they are much smaller in diameter for any given pound-test and because they have much less stretch. Smaller diameter lines allow longer casts with spinning reels. Less stretch means stronger hooksets with any kind of tackle and also much better sensitivity; with superlines your “feel” for the movement of an underwater lure or the light tap-tap of a biting fish is substantially increased.

On the downside, these lines are generally much more expensive than mono. And If a backlash or other tangle occurs, the lines’ small diameters can make freeing such tangles more difficult. Also, and because superlines are made from various forms of slippery polyethylene, knots can be more difficult to tie well.

I’ve used various superlines since they first came out. I mostly use FireLine on spinning reels, in pound-tests ranging from 4 (for trout and panfish) to 10 (medium-weight spinning) to 14 and up (surf-spinning). For baitcasting reels, I think a superline with a more round profile tangles and digs into the spool less often. So for those reels I’ve most recently been using a Stren braid in 30-pound-test, which is about the same diameter as 10- or 12-pound mono. Line diameter determines line choice here, by the way. Smaller diameters are difficult to use on baitcasters.

So have you made the switch from nylon monofilament? And what superlines do you like? Curious minds want to know....

Comments (14)

Top Rated
All Comments
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I have several spools of fireline on my bench untouched. I'm stubborn but your report makes me want to try them out.

One concern not address is the visibility of the fireline or super line. I think fish can see it better than mono. What are your thought on that?

Second, If I can't find your wonderful article in F&S a couple months ago, what are your knots of choice for super lines.

One thing that keeps me from using super lines is the fact that they do not stretch. I like the stretch that mono gives on a hard fighting fish.

Another thing(yea, I ramble) How do you know when to replace superlines. My son uses fireline and it appears all frayed. Is it still good? Is it true that some super lines may cut some guides?

All of these things have kept me from going over to the dark side when it comes to super lines. I thought maybe they would be a passing fad but it appears they are here to stay.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from j-johnson17 wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I love the "superlines." I have a number of setups with both braided and other synthetics (i.e. Fireline). You can get a much stronger, higher lb-test rated line than mono in a smaller diameter with the superlines. I generally fish with a minimum of 25lb. Fireline and braid, and I think they are 10lb. diameter.

I love them. You also cut down on lost lures - most of the time hooks will be straightened before you will break the line. Another downside - if you want the line to break, you have to wrap it around a stick or something similar - it will cut through you skin like a razor blade if you're not careful...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from vtbluegrass wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I use both types of line. My main issue with superlines is the high visibility of them in clear water so a flourocarbon or mono leader is needed.I generally use mono for fishing soft plastics(gulp mostly) because if you get hung on a log the line always breaks at the back to back uni knot and I hate having to tie two knots every time I get an get a hang. Also mono is cheap and I change line frequently. 1/4lb spools of ANDE mono can be had for what 100 yards of superline costs.
When fishing with baits such as mirro-lures and spinnerbait type lures for speckled trout and red drum is usually go superline with a leader depending on water clarity. And for surf fishing I go superlines all the time for the added capacity, greater casting distance, and superb sensitivity in the waves.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dotcomaphobe wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I just bought my first baitcaster last week. I went to the tackle shop and bought 20-lbs test superbraid and tied it on. After practicing for about a half-hour, I noticed that with each long cast, the line dug in a little further into the spool. Since my reel spins so easily, it wasn't hampering the performance until I got my first bird's nest tangle.

After a few of those, the braid became so overlaid on the spool that my only choice was to strip nearly all of it and re-spool it. My next bird nest was so tangled, I got rid of it altogether.

Now, I'm using 14-lbs Spiderwire mono on it, and not only does it cast as far, but I've had easier tangles and less digging on the retrieve.

I think I'll stick with mono, at least until I can stop my thumb from sleeping on the job.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from labrador12 wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I've been using it for the last ten years or so. I like having a thin strong line that doesn't twist. If you're snagging humpies while trying to catch silvers you need a strong line to horse the humpies with and yet a thin line to not inhibit lure action. It is a real frustration fighter.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Golfing Sportsman wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

dotcomaphobe, I have had the complete opposite experience with braid vs. mono. I get fewer backlashes with braid and when i do i find them very easy to un-tangle.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I've used a lot of both, and really, it doesn't make that much difference to me. I just fish.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnmerwin wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

Buckhunter, those are all perfectly good questions, some of which have already been at least partly answered by other comments. Here are a few more suggestions. Yes, most superlines are opaque and you usually need a clear leader. Splice 2 or 3 feet of mono or fluorocarbon on with back to back uni-knots or use a J-knot. For superline knots: palomar knot as a terminal knot (such as tying on a swivel). I think you can find directions for those knots online here by using the search function. I think most of the line-cutting-rod-guide stories came from when a few lines were made of kevlar. That's no longer the case, and I haven't heard that issue raised in several years. FireLine and some others do start to look worn and fuzzy after extended use. They're probably still okay, but you might also just cut off the first 30 feet of line (the most worn part). Bottom line: Put some of that FireLine on a spinning reel and give it a try. You'll like it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from chuckles wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

Firline is all is use my spinning reels except my ultralight. I use the 14 lb except for the rods I use for larger fish and thick cover where I use 20 lb. I always use a 4-5' fluorocarbon leader (20lb) with the uni-knots you describe.
I agree with the post that said it is easier to untangle with the caveat that the tangle is not pulled tight. When that happens you are done and might as well cut and retie. I have also heard from walleye fisherman that it pulls hooks when trolling. I almost never troll so I can't speak from experience there.
Mine does fray and I cut off the last 6 feet every couple of weeks, that seems to help.
I have never broken Fireline, the uni-knot on the fluorocarbon side has given out several times but I think that was overuse and/or operator error in tying the knot. Another thing to be careful of is that the stuff will cut you if you are not careful tying or trying to free lures. I use the boat towel or a glove to cinch down knots and always when trying to pull a lure free.
Otherwise the stuff is awesome, I have watched a northern steam throught the weeds and you could tell where he was by the cut vegetation floating to the surface. It is super-sensitive and super strong. It is worth every penny in my opinion. Check it out if you haven't already.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from doublestrike wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

I used to be a 'hardcore' mono user. I got a spool of Power Pro as a gift and I have been sold ever since. On a trout fishing trip to the lake last spring I grabed the wrong pole that was spooled with Power Pro 20# to go for a day of trolling for trout. Other than getting used to the no stretch, I had a great time catching nice 16 and 17 inch rainbows. I have since downsized to 10# for trout and I am having the time of my life.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from labrador12 wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

My new wife had never fished before. With the new anti reverse reels, 20 lb test fireline and a weedless frog, she can catch fish. Her casting is not accurate but it doesn't matter. The fish bite, she can't get hung up, and the line won't break. I cheat because I have a private beaver pond that only I and the ospreys and eagles fish, but its nice. The technology that we have today is amazing. Super braids are a wonder tool. They will cut you though, be wary.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

I'm sold. I run a few of my reels to the shop and have them spooled.
Thanks for the good info guys.

It's worth repeating. Your always a better fisherman after you read Merwin.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

I have yet to make the change really... I have one reel that has some braid on it but I treat it like the "red-headed step child" of the bunch and it does not see much action. I usually, more often than none, fish with the reels with mono on them. But after reading this, I am kind of itching to take the red headed step child out fishing...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bill Sonnett wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

The one baitcasting application in which I have really enjoyed using super braid is in fishing hollow rubber frogs in heavy cover such as lilly pads. Solid hook sets and the inabilty of a 5 or 6 pound bass to break off make it ideal for me. I found the biggest problem was line "knifing" down into the spooled line. I cured this by filling the spool with mono and putting just enough super braid on top of the mono so I always have a few wraps on the spool after my longest casts. The result has been very few backlashes, easy casting and a lot more big ones in the boat.(to be released of course)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from chuckles wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

Firline is all is use my spinning reels except my ultralight. I use the 14 lb except for the rods I use for larger fish and thick cover where I use 20 lb. I always use a 4-5' fluorocarbon leader (20lb) with the uni-knots you describe.
I agree with the post that said it is easier to untangle with the caveat that the tangle is not pulled tight. When that happens you are done and might as well cut and retie. I have also heard from walleye fisherman that it pulls hooks when trolling. I almost never troll so I can't speak from experience there.
Mine does fray and I cut off the last 6 feet every couple of weeks, that seems to help.
I have never broken Fireline, the uni-knot on the fluorocarbon side has given out several times but I think that was overuse and/or operator error in tying the knot. Another thing to be careful of is that the stuff will cut you if you are not careful tying or trying to free lures. I use the boat towel or a glove to cinch down knots and always when trying to pull a lure free.
Otherwise the stuff is awesome, I have watched a northern steam throught the weeds and you could tell where he was by the cut vegetation floating to the surface. It is super-sensitive and super strong. It is worth every penny in my opinion. Check it out if you haven't already.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bill Sonnett wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

The one baitcasting application in which I have really enjoyed using super braid is in fishing hollow rubber frogs in heavy cover such as lilly pads. Solid hook sets and the inabilty of a 5 or 6 pound bass to break off make it ideal for me. I found the biggest problem was line "knifing" down into the spooled line. I cured this by filling the spool with mono and putting just enough super braid on top of the mono so I always have a few wraps on the spool after my longest casts. The result has been very few backlashes, easy casting and a lot more big ones in the boat.(to be released of course)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I have several spools of fireline on my bench untouched. I'm stubborn but your report makes me want to try them out.

One concern not address is the visibility of the fireline or super line. I think fish can see it better than mono. What are your thought on that?

Second, If I can't find your wonderful article in F&S a couple months ago, what are your knots of choice for super lines.

One thing that keeps me from using super lines is the fact that they do not stretch. I like the stretch that mono gives on a hard fighting fish.

Another thing(yea, I ramble) How do you know when to replace superlines. My son uses fireline and it appears all frayed. Is it still good? Is it true that some super lines may cut some guides?

All of these things have kept me from going over to the dark side when it comes to super lines. I thought maybe they would be a passing fad but it appears they are here to stay.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from j-johnson17 wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I love the "superlines." I have a number of setups with both braided and other synthetics (i.e. Fireline). You can get a much stronger, higher lb-test rated line than mono in a smaller diameter with the superlines. I generally fish with a minimum of 25lb. Fireline and braid, and I think they are 10lb. diameter.

I love them. You also cut down on lost lures - most of the time hooks will be straightened before you will break the line. Another downside - if you want the line to break, you have to wrap it around a stick or something similar - it will cut through you skin like a razor blade if you're not careful...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from vtbluegrass wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I use both types of line. My main issue with superlines is the high visibility of them in clear water so a flourocarbon or mono leader is needed.I generally use mono for fishing soft plastics(gulp mostly) because if you get hung on a log the line always breaks at the back to back uni knot and I hate having to tie two knots every time I get an get a hang. Also mono is cheap and I change line frequently. 1/4lb spools of ANDE mono can be had for what 100 yards of superline costs.
When fishing with baits such as mirro-lures and spinnerbait type lures for speckled trout and red drum is usually go superline with a leader depending on water clarity. And for surf fishing I go superlines all the time for the added capacity, greater casting distance, and superb sensitivity in the waves.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dotcomaphobe wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I just bought my first baitcaster last week. I went to the tackle shop and bought 20-lbs test superbraid and tied it on. After practicing for about a half-hour, I noticed that with each long cast, the line dug in a little further into the spool. Since my reel spins so easily, it wasn't hampering the performance until I got my first bird's nest tangle.

After a few of those, the braid became so overlaid on the spool that my only choice was to strip nearly all of it and re-spool it. My next bird nest was so tangled, I got rid of it altogether.

Now, I'm using 14-lbs Spiderwire mono on it, and not only does it cast as far, but I've had easier tangles and less digging on the retrieve.

I think I'll stick with mono, at least until I can stop my thumb from sleeping on the job.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from labrador12 wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I've been using it for the last ten years or so. I like having a thin strong line that doesn't twist. If you're snagging humpies while trying to catch silvers you need a strong line to horse the humpies with and yet a thin line to not inhibit lure action. It is a real frustration fighter.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Golfing Sportsman wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

dotcomaphobe, I have had the complete opposite experience with braid vs. mono. I get fewer backlashes with braid and when i do i find them very easy to un-tangle.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 2 years 39 weeks ago

I've used a lot of both, and really, it doesn't make that much difference to me. I just fish.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from johnmerwin wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

Buckhunter, those are all perfectly good questions, some of which have already been at least partly answered by other comments. Here are a few more suggestions. Yes, most superlines are opaque and you usually need a clear leader. Splice 2 or 3 feet of mono or fluorocarbon on with back to back uni-knots or use a J-knot. For superline knots: palomar knot as a terminal knot (such as tying on a swivel). I think you can find directions for those knots online here by using the search function. I think most of the line-cutting-rod-guide stories came from when a few lines were made of kevlar. That's no longer the case, and I haven't heard that issue raised in several years. FireLine and some others do start to look worn and fuzzy after extended use. They're probably still okay, but you might also just cut off the first 30 feet of line (the most worn part). Bottom line: Put some of that FireLine on a spinning reel and give it a try. You'll like it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from doublestrike wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

I used to be a 'hardcore' mono user. I got a spool of Power Pro as a gift and I have been sold ever since. On a trout fishing trip to the lake last spring I grabed the wrong pole that was spooled with Power Pro 20# to go for a day of trolling for trout. Other than getting used to the no stretch, I had a great time catching nice 16 and 17 inch rainbows. I have since downsized to 10# for trout and I am having the time of my life.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from labrador12 wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

My new wife had never fished before. With the new anti reverse reels, 20 lb test fireline and a weedless frog, she can catch fish. Her casting is not accurate but it doesn't matter. The fish bite, she can't get hung up, and the line won't break. I cheat because I have a private beaver pond that only I and the ospreys and eagles fish, but its nice. The technology that we have today is amazing. Super braids are a wonder tool. They will cut you though, be wary.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

I'm sold. I run a few of my reels to the shop and have them spooled.
Thanks for the good info guys.

It's worth repeating. Your always a better fisherman after you read Merwin.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 2 years 38 weeks ago

I have yet to make the change really... I have one reel that has some braid on it but I treat it like the "red-headed step child" of the bunch and it does not see much action. I usually, more often than none, fish with the reels with mono on them. But after reading this, I am kind of itching to take the red headed step child out fishing...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment