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Advice Needed on The Elements of Flyfishing, Prioritized

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August 07, 2009

Advice Needed on The Elements of Flyfishing, Prioritized

By Kirk Deeter

The string of comments (on this blog and others) in response to news that Steve Rajeff punched out a world record 243-foot one-handed cast has been interesting: It's either sheer awe, or "whoop-de-do, casting doesn't matter."

The latter is a symptom of "cast envy."  I can say that because I have it.  I can't throw it 125 feet, let alone 243 feet, so I grumble, "well, who on earth needs a 125-foot cast anyway?"

Then again, who needs a size #20 CDC-wing, goose-biot-body dry fly, when a regualr ol' #18 parachute Adams will usually do the trick just as well?  And who needs 7X flurocarbon tippet (honestly).  Who needs boron rods and five-layer Gore-Tex waders... and on and on?

Truth is flyfishing is a sport about doing more with less, yet at the same time, making things more complex than they have to be.  That's why we're all so weird. 

I'll let you in on a little secret...

I just finished a book on flyfishing for trout in partnership with Charlie Meyers of the Denver Post.  It's a how-to book.  But not a "guru" how-to book, rather, an "it ain't rocket science" how-to book meant to simplfy and take as much BS out of tips on flyfishing as possible.  (I'll tell you more later, when it's printed, and I load up on a really huge, shameless self-promotional campaign to plug the project... but you've seen some of the tips on the videos we've put up here on Fly Talk.)

Nevertheless... in organizing the book we break it out in the four basic areas of flyfishing:

The cast.  The presentation (drift).  Reading water (finding fish).  And choosing bugs (fly selection).  The we do a "misc." section on, gear, and fighting fish, and all that... but if you break flyfishing down, you can do it in four areas:  The cast, the presentation, reading water, and picking bugs.

So here's my question to you...

In order of importance to the (trout) fly fisher, how should we organize the sections of the book:  Cast, presentation, reading water, bugs?  Reading water, choosing flies, presentation, cast?  Etc., etc.  Rank them in order of importance to you.

Thanks for the help.

Deeter

Comments (17)

Top Rated
All Comments
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1) Reading water
2) Choosing bugs
3) Cast
4) Presentation

All this assuming were trout fishing in a stream.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

That's [we're]

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Alex Pernice th... wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1. Cast, you can't fly fish if you can't cast.
2. Reading the water, fish don't live in trees dude, you need to know where they are so you can at least have a shot at hooking one.
3. Bugs, a 14 inch rainbow wont hit a 4/0 bass popper (usually) and a Tarpon can't hit Tricos, so figure out what they like.
4. Presentation, yea this is important but you can't even get a fish if you don't know how to cast, where the fish are, or what they eat, presentation matters less, you can catch a fish on a bad cast, but not in a tree.

AP

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Koldkut wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

In thinking about this I look at my own shortcommings when I learned to flyfish and thought about which way I would have done it different. It seems to be more of a which came first, the chicken or the egg.

1. Reading water
2. Bugs
3. casting/presentation

I still can't read water all that well, mostly because the vast majority of my fly fishing(99%) is stillwater. So that ranks top for me, I can cast, present to fish all day long, and when I started to learn I spent all my time areializing line and not enough time with the bug in the water.

Etemology isn't too hard, mostly because I can look at a hatch chart and see what I'm working with and narrow it down, but if I was on strange water in an unknown location I'd be lost other than to throw a san juan copper john dropper setup.

Casting and presentation, as far as I've seen on moving water, goes too closely together. Worry about it when you know where the fish are and know what they are eating.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Seems there is a standard order for many flyfishing books. How about doing it differently:

1. Trout ... What are they? and why do we catch and release them?
2. Bugs and meat ... what do trout eat? and what artificials look like breakfast, lunch, dinner, and midnight snacks?
3. Reading water ... where do trout hang out and when?
4. Casting ... how do you use that delicate rod, artful reel, and mishmash of lines?
5. Presentation ... how do we put it all together and catch fish?

A forward by J. Merwin would be nice.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Evan V wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1.)shutting up
2.)and fishing

2 most important topics

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Brian W. Thair wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1. Read the water. Sit still and shut up and the fish will wave to you.
2. Pick a good bug for the place.
3. Cast (from a tree choked river bank)
4. Presentation to put it on the fish's plate.
My home-made rod, my home-made flies and the fish is on my plate. That's as good as it needs to be.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from chadlove wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

I sure can't help you with advice for the book but sign me up for one when it gets printed. Seriously. I need it. Just ask Tim what kind of hotshot trout angler I am...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 2Poppa wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

I guess the best question is, whom is the "how to" book being written for?
Is it for the choir,the ardent devotee ... or someone for whom the flames of fly-fishing haven't been ignited yet?

There probably should be a forward to the angler/wanna be's that has never had nor seen a fly-rod before.The details of wanting to start/begin a new hobby/fly-fishing bogs the mind down, inducing complexity,that one tends to procastinate,and never begins the desire to search out that new/used, expensive/cheap, fly-rod and all of the accoutrements/flys/7X flurocarbon tippet ... WHEW!

It sounds like too much trouble to take-up this glorified fishing hobby ... I'll just stick to casting my spinning reels???

You have just lost part of your readership,due to the level of difficulty and complexity, that the average angler or fly-fisherman, wanna be, perceives, and aspires often vainly, to emulate the tried and true successes of the fly-fisher gurus of the modern day era.

In all seriousness,have you done anything to help the angler move from desire to fruition in fly-fishing?
In all likelihood, that alone is the biggest obstacle and detriment,to anyone wanting to begin, the art of fly-fishing without all of the BS.

A wise guru/mentor/instructor reduces the complexity of the task at hand,and keeps it simple for the beginning student/angler, and creates a fervor with zeal and enthusiasm that absorbs and possesses the mind.

He casts vision,where there is none.

1.) Desire to learn fly-fishing.(Where do I begin?)
2.) Fruition (Trout dinner.)

As MLH texted: "A forward by J. Merwin would be nice."
I agree.
A little bit-of Bill Heavey would add a nice touch too ...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from yohan wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Well said poppa ,..still the plain truth is,.. you have to want to do it first .
That will usually open the first door.

Here's how I started ,.. I knew I wanted to fly fish when very young ,.. I just knew it ,.could actually feel it.
Yet ( and this takes nothing away from parents or relatives) there simply were no mentors in this regard for me.

So I didnt get to do it ,. until one day in mid April when I was 34.
Was at my office working my tail off ( per ususal)
I had a window open a slight breeze floated in.
It occured to me then I wanted to do it ,.and not next year.
I walked out of my cave ( what I used to call my office )
and annouced I would be leaving for the day. Maybe the week,( this was Tuesday ) cause I didn't for sure know how long it would take me to learn how to flyfish,
Needless to say ,.I got a few looks but by then there was no one that was going to tell me I couldnt.

So I left,the office 10 miuts later ,.. didn't go home didnt change out of business clothes ,. went directly to the nearest place I had seen flyrods in the past.
And I got LUCKY ,. ran into a retired guy who was a fly fisherman who worked there part time.
Mostly for something to do but also to pay for his fishing trips.
I said Sir I wanna get set up to fly fish ,. can you please point me in a direction that won't cause a major equipment train wreck.

The guy asked me a few questions and finally said look ,. buy a beginners outfit ,.get some poppers and spidders and go try the blue gills ,. there on the beds now,.if you like it you can always upgrade,.. he even told me where to go.

I was standing in the water ( in my duck hunting waders)
two hours later ,.. and I cought a nice mess of Bluegills . The 8-9 " variety,..
When I finally came out of the time warp /coma this new intriging sport had put me into ,. it was getting dark ,. I figured must be gonna storm ,. looked at my watch and looked arond again.
No storm ,. just getting dark,.. I had been at it 4 hrs and had no clue how much time had passed until then.

If I could offer my 2 cents ,. getting started is a combination of things already said here,. but immediate success on the panfish population is a very positive reinforcement plus its not complicated and not expensive.
If its in you,.. you can find out for $100s buck or less.

Have since caught other fish,..
But stream trout for what ever reason don't give me the thrill that a 10-15lb steelhead ,. 20lb chinook or an early fall Great Lakes brown does on flyrod.
Had a "king" take the line and and 90 yds of backing three times before O lost it ,.using #8 St croix Legend

But without question ,. my all time favorit(still to this day) is to hit a lake or pond in spring with a buddy or concenting female or just by myslef .
With a number 5 or lighter flyrod . Cath a mess of Bull Bluegills,..and fry those babies up that night or the next.
Yup ,.fried Gills (to a nice golden brown),.. a few fried potatoes, a salad,. some sourdough bread ( and butter ) and a cold one ,.. will for ever be the best fly rod adventure possible to me.

Hope that not too far of topic

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from kirkdeeter wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Good comments, guys. Truth is, I grew up on Lake Michigan, as a heavy metal-chucker. Why did I take up fly fishing? I met a girl, whose family was into it. We've been married 20 years now... talk about creating a monster...

To Poppa's point... I wholeheartedly agree.. There should be no "glorified" and no "too hard." It's all the same stuff.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Alex Pernice th... wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Deeter! Kings on the Root dude' all you need is an 8wt.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from YooperJack wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

As someone who wanted to learn flyfishing this summer, I am clueless as to reading water and what flies to use. I think that the casting is primarily learning the proper technique and practice, practice and practice. I'm not really surewhat presentation is.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from fflutterffly wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

* Right equipment for the job
* Casting the right equipment
* Bugs
* Reading the water
* Presentation to match the water

*I have fish envy not cast envy
*As for self-promotion: You write it.... I'll buy it!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

This past weekend was a test in this very subject for me. The family and I just returned from 6 days in the Great Smoky Mtn. NP. My oldest son has taken up fly fishing at the local farm ponds and was eager to give it a try in the wild streams of East Tennessee.

I think reading water is the first. There has to be a fish somewhere in the vincinity or it is just casting practice. The next is definitely presentation. We saw quickly that even if it was a good cast, that little v-wake is killer. However, there were bad casts that got hits IF the drift was decent. I would say next is cast, because it makes the other parts easier. Finally, fly selecetion, unless of course they are REALLY feeding on something specific. Otherwise just put on a small stimi or a parachute adams.

My son did land 2 rainbows, so I am a big puffed up Daddy. Fished were hooked, but more so was the boy! He is already trying to figure out a return trip. I managed a Smoky Slam, landing a brown, a brookie, and a rainbow during the trip. I also hooked (and lost on during a botched land attempt) the largest rainbow I have ever personally seen in the park, so I am thinking about that return trip as well. Plus we got to see some bears in the Cove.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Oh yeah, we will definitely be geting a copy of the book!!!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Johnnyras1624 wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Presentation, fly, reading water, casting.....fish on.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from Alex Pernice th... wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1. Cast, you can't fly fish if you can't cast.
2. Reading the water, fish don't live in trees dude, you need to know where they are so you can at least have a shot at hooking one.
3. Bugs, a 14 inch rainbow wont hit a 4/0 bass popper (usually) and a Tarpon can't hit Tricos, so figure out what they like.
4. Presentation, yea this is important but you can't even get a fish if you don't know how to cast, where the fish are, or what they eat, presentation matters less, you can catch a fish on a bad cast, but not in a tree.

AP

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1) Reading water
2) Choosing bugs
3) Cast
4) Presentation

All this assuming were trout fishing in a stream.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Seems there is a standard order for many flyfishing books. How about doing it differently:

1. Trout ... What are they? and why do we catch and release them?
2. Bugs and meat ... what do trout eat? and what artificials look like breakfast, lunch, dinner, and midnight snacks?
3. Reading water ... where do trout hang out and when?
4. Casting ... how do you use that delicate rod, artful reel, and mishmash of lines?
5. Presentation ... how do we put it all together and catch fish?

A forward by J. Merwin would be nice.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from 2Poppa wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

I guess the best question is, whom is the "how to" book being written for?
Is it for the choir,the ardent devotee ... or someone for whom the flames of fly-fishing haven't been ignited yet?

There probably should be a forward to the angler/wanna be's that has never had nor seen a fly-rod before.The details of wanting to start/begin a new hobby/fly-fishing bogs the mind down, inducing complexity,that one tends to procastinate,and never begins the desire to search out that new/used, expensive/cheap, fly-rod and all of the accoutrements/flys/7X flurocarbon tippet ... WHEW!

It sounds like too much trouble to take-up this glorified fishing hobby ... I'll just stick to casting my spinning reels???

You have just lost part of your readership,due to the level of difficulty and complexity, that the average angler or fly-fisherman, wanna be, perceives, and aspires often vainly, to emulate the tried and true successes of the fly-fisher gurus of the modern day era.

In all seriousness,have you done anything to help the angler move from desire to fruition in fly-fishing?
In all likelihood, that alone is the biggest obstacle and detriment,to anyone wanting to begin, the art of fly-fishing without all of the BS.

A wise guru/mentor/instructor reduces the complexity of the task at hand,and keeps it simple for the beginning student/angler, and creates a fervor with zeal and enthusiasm that absorbs and possesses the mind.

He casts vision,where there is none.

1.) Desire to learn fly-fishing.(Where do I begin?)
2.) Fruition (Trout dinner.)

As MLH texted: "A forward by J. Merwin would be nice."
I agree.
A little bit-of Bill Heavey would add a nice touch too ...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from yohan wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Well said poppa ,..still the plain truth is,.. you have to want to do it first .
That will usually open the first door.

Here's how I started ,.. I knew I wanted to fly fish when very young ,.. I just knew it ,.could actually feel it.
Yet ( and this takes nothing away from parents or relatives) there simply were no mentors in this regard for me.

So I didnt get to do it ,. until one day in mid April when I was 34.
Was at my office working my tail off ( per ususal)
I had a window open a slight breeze floated in.
It occured to me then I wanted to do it ,.and not next year.
I walked out of my cave ( what I used to call my office )
and annouced I would be leaving for the day. Maybe the week,( this was Tuesday ) cause I didn't for sure know how long it would take me to learn how to flyfish,
Needless to say ,.I got a few looks but by then there was no one that was going to tell me I couldnt.

So I left,the office 10 miuts later ,.. didn't go home didnt change out of business clothes ,. went directly to the nearest place I had seen flyrods in the past.
And I got LUCKY ,. ran into a retired guy who was a fly fisherman who worked there part time.
Mostly for something to do but also to pay for his fishing trips.
I said Sir I wanna get set up to fly fish ,. can you please point me in a direction that won't cause a major equipment train wreck.

The guy asked me a few questions and finally said look ,. buy a beginners outfit ,.get some poppers and spidders and go try the blue gills ,. there on the beds now,.if you like it you can always upgrade,.. he even told me where to go.

I was standing in the water ( in my duck hunting waders)
two hours later ,.. and I cought a nice mess of Bluegills . The 8-9 " variety,..
When I finally came out of the time warp /coma this new intriging sport had put me into ,. it was getting dark ,. I figured must be gonna storm ,. looked at my watch and looked arond again.
No storm ,. just getting dark,.. I had been at it 4 hrs and had no clue how much time had passed until then.

If I could offer my 2 cents ,. getting started is a combination of things already said here,. but immediate success on the panfish population is a very positive reinforcement plus its not complicated and not expensive.
If its in you,.. you can find out for $100s buck or less.

Have since caught other fish,..
But stream trout for what ever reason don't give me the thrill that a 10-15lb steelhead ,. 20lb chinook or an early fall Great Lakes brown does on flyrod.
Had a "king" take the line and and 90 yds of backing three times before O lost it ,.using #8 St croix Legend

But without question ,. my all time favorit(still to this day) is to hit a lake or pond in spring with a buddy or concenting female or just by myslef .
With a number 5 or lighter flyrod . Cath a mess of Bull Bluegills,..and fry those babies up that night or the next.
Yup ,.fried Gills (to a nice golden brown),.. a few fried potatoes, a salad,. some sourdough bread ( and butter ) and a cold one ,.. will for ever be the best fly rod adventure possible to me.

Hope that not too far of topic

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from kirkdeeter wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Good comments, guys. Truth is, I grew up on Lake Michigan, as a heavy metal-chucker. Why did I take up fly fishing? I met a girl, whose family was into it. We've been married 20 years now... talk about creating a monster...

To Poppa's point... I wholeheartedly agree.. There should be no "glorified" and no "too hard." It's all the same stuff.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from YooperJack wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

As someone who wanted to learn flyfishing this summer, I am clueless as to reading water and what flies to use. I think that the casting is primarily learning the proper technique and practice, practice and practice. I'm not really surewhat presentation is.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

That's [we're]

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Koldkut wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

In thinking about this I look at my own shortcommings when I learned to flyfish and thought about which way I would have done it different. It seems to be more of a which came first, the chicken or the egg.

1. Reading water
2. Bugs
3. casting/presentation

I still can't read water all that well, mostly because the vast majority of my fly fishing(99%) is stillwater. So that ranks top for me, I can cast, present to fish all day long, and when I started to learn I spent all my time areializing line and not enough time with the bug in the water.

Etemology isn't too hard, mostly because I can look at a hatch chart and see what I'm working with and narrow it down, but if I was on strange water in an unknown location I'd be lost other than to throw a san juan copper john dropper setup.

Casting and presentation, as far as I've seen on moving water, goes too closely together. Worry about it when you know where the fish are and know what they are eating.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Evan V wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1.)shutting up
2.)and fishing

2 most important topics

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Brian W. Thair wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

1. Read the water. Sit still and shut up and the fish will wave to you.
2. Pick a good bug for the place.
3. Cast (from a tree choked river bank)
4. Presentation to put it on the fish's plate.
My home-made rod, my home-made flies and the fish is on my plate. That's as good as it needs to be.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from chadlove wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

I sure can't help you with advice for the book but sign me up for one when it gets printed. Seriously. I need it. Just ask Tim what kind of hotshot trout angler I am...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Alex Pernice th... wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Deeter! Kings on the Root dude' all you need is an 8wt.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from fflutterffly wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

* Right equipment for the job
* Casting the right equipment
* Bugs
* Reading the water
* Presentation to match the water

*I have fish envy not cast envy
*As for self-promotion: You write it.... I'll buy it!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

This past weekend was a test in this very subject for me. The family and I just returned from 6 days in the Great Smoky Mtn. NP. My oldest son has taken up fly fishing at the local farm ponds and was eager to give it a try in the wild streams of East Tennessee.

I think reading water is the first. There has to be a fish somewhere in the vincinity or it is just casting practice. The next is definitely presentation. We saw quickly that even if it was a good cast, that little v-wake is killer. However, there were bad casts that got hits IF the drift was decent. I would say next is cast, because it makes the other parts easier. Finally, fly selecetion, unless of course they are REALLY feeding on something specific. Otherwise just put on a small stimi or a parachute adams.

My son did land 2 rainbows, so I am a big puffed up Daddy. Fished were hooked, but more so was the boy! He is already trying to figure out a return trip. I managed a Smoky Slam, landing a brown, a brookie, and a rainbow during the trip. I also hooked (and lost on during a botched land attempt) the largest rainbow I have ever personally seen in the park, so I am thinking about that return trip as well. Plus we got to see some bears in the Cove.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Wags wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Oh yeah, we will definitely be geting a copy of the book!!!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Johnnyras1624 wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

Presentation, fly, reading water, casting.....fish on.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

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