


October 21, 2009
Discussion Topic Update: Student Fights Suspension Over Knife
From AOL News:
An upstate New York high school senior suspended for 20 days because of a two-inch knife is fighting back.
Matthew Whalen's family has retained a lawyer to appeal the suspension and clear his record. Lansingburgh Central School District Superintendent George Goodwin punished Whalen for having the small utility knife in a tool kit that was locked in the teen's car. Goodwin ruled it was a weapon that is forbidden on school property under Lansingburgh's "zero-tolerance" policy on weapons. . . .
So far, school officials have refused to back down and won't comment on the controversy, which has attracted national news media attention. The school board might discuss the matter at its Oct. 27 meeting. The Whalens threatened to sue unless the board reverses the superintendent's decision, Fox News reported.
Comments (15)
Sir Matthew Whalen was on FOX News the other day and this Zero Tolerance has gotten out of hand.
I totally support Mr. Whalen and find him totally innocent of the charge. As for Superintendent George Goodwin, a totally mindless, self Indulging, intellectually challenged, zealot!
If Goodwin worked for me, I’d fire him!
Amazing how people can be so smart, they are so stupid!
I hope school super George Goodwin loses so badly in the lawsuit that he loses his house and retirement savings along with his job.
Clay and Mike, i agree with you both. The thing that I find the most idiotic about these whole zero tolerance policies is the punishment. Punishing kids by not letting then go to school and learn. Granted they shouldn't be punished in the first place, but either way cutting a kid off from learning because he had a small utility knife in his car?? That does not seem right to me. Even if he was deserving of punishment what good does it do to send him home for 20 days...if anything he will just be behind on his school work when he gets back....that is NOT constructive what so ever.
Just like Mrs Gorfinkle......EPIC FAIL!!
Took my son shooting one weekend and the next Monday morning at school a .22 cartridge fell out of his coat pocket. Living in Tennessee has its advantages obviously. The principal talked to him about hunting and shooting and made him show her his hunting licsence and all was forgiven. Hell if you accidentally shoot yourself in NY they put you in prison, as if losing your NFL carreer and the humiliation and pain and suffering weren't enough.
The "Absurd Results" doctrine in effect (the zero-tolerance policy that is)! If you want an example, read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870447150457444709021853413...
This is one of my pet peeves, ever since my kids got caught up in the zero thought-zero tolerance policies. I agree with Mike D. I hope the school board pays & Goodwin loses everything but his shorts.
Fortunately, West Point says this will have no affect on his ability to come to the Academy. If I were the kids in school, I'd tell the Principal to buzz off regarding searching my car. I guess the Principal forgot about the 4th Amendment.
at my high school some kids keep their shotguns in their truck one kid got caught and was told to keep it covered as long as its locked and covered they dont care
I can understand the fact that punishments for students having deadly weapons on school property should be severe and example setting, but this is harebrained stupidity to the extreme. Had the boy had it in his locker or pocket then some kind of suspension would be warranted. but since it was in his locked car, the superintendent should not treat this young man as a common criminal looking to commit some wayward action.
i vote to send the superintendent some common sense pills.
Political correctness
Secular progressivism
Zero tolerance
No-fail
Affirmative action
Three strikes
Don't Ask, don't tell
Not in my back yard
(I'm sure I'm leaving out something)
The thread all these things have in common is CYA. A lack of personal responsibility also is there. These things were all products of a culture of passing the buck; people not wanting to make hard choices in fear of hurting someone's little feeling. This culture has morphed into people like this superintendent that fill our local, state, and Federal governments.
The school superintendent has absolutely zero interest in this boy's life, predicament, or beliefs. It is all about his (George Goodwin's) little career, and him being yet another 'Peter Principle' idiot that rose to a level of incompetence in the system.
Unfortunately the Good Lord didn't give out equal amounts of common sense to everyone. Goodwin is proof of that, as he is just another robot bureaucrat riding the system.
Let's hope the folks at West Point accept this young man. They definitely have the opportunity to strike a blow for common sense here.
sgaredneck, I believe you hit the nail squarely, and drove it home!
The only thing I can add is that somebody should sponsor a formal "poop-for-brains" award and mail the first one to Mr. Goodwin. I am picturing a rubber dog turd mounted on a plaque that is shaped like the profile of the human brain with the inscription "Way to go Goodwin" on a small gold label...
All zero tolerance policies are instituted because someone in authority wants policy that can be invoked without need for investigation or consideration (ie. thought) A zero tolerance policy for weapons actually is impossible to invoke because almost everything can be used as a weapon including bare hands and feet! Of course conservatives will blame the so called liberals for stupidity for this and similar insanities (I do hope the kid wins) but I see it as another symptom of our sick society where people equate security with restriction of liberty. The new model for the American paradigm is the prison. We incarcerate more of our citizens than any other nation on earth, everything becomes modeled after prisons, schools, banks and airports especially. If some folks feel insecure, the first technology Americans go for is penal. Our schools bring our kids up to be Zeks in the new corporate world order, wage slaves to the corporate elite.
Land of the Free and the home of the Brave anyone? Bahhh.
First. I agree the is ridiculous. THe zero tolerance policies are ridiculous. They were adopted because of our ridiculous judicial system which leaves out common sense.
If Mr. Godwin didn't follow through with this policy he would have been subjected to a suit by anyone who has been expelled even if they deserve it.
You are right it is CYA but wouldn't we all. I would like to think that we would all stand up for what is right but when it's your job and feeding your family it's a little tougher. In schools safety has to be THE TOP priority. Administrators should use common sense though and even in schools with the zero-tolerance incidents can be "overlooked" but every time they are you open yourself up to personal liability which can affect your livelihood and your family.
The fourth amendment doesn't apply in these situations. Students are minors and anything on school property is subject to search and seizure by a school official.
Don't be too hard on some of these guys. (although this guy seems like a real weenie) We need to fix our judicial system and stop stupid litigation.
I am glad to see the kid fight back. Maybe he can get the law repealed or at least reworded. But at least West Point is showing some common sense. Did anyone ever here of a guy called Thomas Paine?
I didn't know it was in a locked car and inside of a tool kit are you serious. are we supposed to not allow people with hands in schools because they are weapons.
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I hope school super George Goodwin loses so badly in the lawsuit that he loses his house and retirement savings along with his job.
Sir Matthew Whalen was on FOX News the other day and this Zero Tolerance has gotten out of hand.
I totally support Mr. Whalen and find him totally innocent of the charge. As for Superintendent George Goodwin, a totally mindless, self Indulging, intellectually challenged, zealot!
If Goodwin worked for me, I’d fire him!
Amazing how people can be so smart, they are so stupid!
Took my son shooting one weekend and the next Monday morning at school a .22 cartridge fell out of his coat pocket. Living in Tennessee has its advantages obviously. The principal talked to him about hunting and shooting and made him show her his hunting licsence and all was forgiven. Hell if you accidentally shoot yourself in NY they put you in prison, as if losing your NFL carreer and the humiliation and pain and suffering weren't enough.
sgaredneck, I believe you hit the nail squarely, and drove it home!
The only thing I can add is that somebody should sponsor a formal "poop-for-brains" award and mail the first one to Mr. Goodwin. I am picturing a rubber dog turd mounted on a plaque that is shaped like the profile of the human brain with the inscription "Way to go Goodwin" on a small gold label...
This is one of my pet peeves, ever since my kids got caught up in the zero thought-zero tolerance policies. I agree with Mike D. I hope the school board pays & Goodwin loses everything but his shorts.
First. I agree the is ridiculous. THe zero tolerance policies are ridiculous. They were adopted because of our ridiculous judicial system which leaves out common sense.
If Mr. Godwin didn't follow through with this policy he would have been subjected to a suit by anyone who has been expelled even if they deserve it.
You are right it is CYA but wouldn't we all. I would like to think that we would all stand up for what is right but when it's your job and feeding your family it's a little tougher. In schools safety has to be THE TOP priority. Administrators should use common sense though and even in schools with the zero-tolerance incidents can be "overlooked" but every time they are you open yourself up to personal liability which can affect your livelihood and your family.
The fourth amendment doesn't apply in these situations. Students are minors and anything on school property is subject to search and seizure by a school official.
Don't be too hard on some of these guys. (although this guy seems like a real weenie) We need to fix our judicial system and stop stupid litigation.
I can understand the fact that punishments for students having deadly weapons on school property should be severe and example setting, but this is harebrained stupidity to the extreme. Had the boy had it in his locker or pocket then some kind of suspension would be warranted. but since it was in his locked car, the superintendent should not treat this young man as a common criminal looking to commit some wayward action.
i vote to send the superintendent some common sense pills.
Clay and Mike, i agree with you both. The thing that I find the most idiotic about these whole zero tolerance policies is the punishment. Punishing kids by not letting then go to school and learn. Granted they shouldn't be punished in the first place, but either way cutting a kid off from learning because he had a small utility knife in his car?? That does not seem right to me. Even if he was deserving of punishment what good does it do to send him home for 20 days...if anything he will just be behind on his school work when he gets back....that is NOT constructive what so ever.
Just like Mrs Gorfinkle......EPIC FAIL!!
Political correctness
Secular progressivism
Zero tolerance
No-fail
Affirmative action
Three strikes
Don't Ask, don't tell
Not in my back yard
(I'm sure I'm leaving out something)
The thread all these things have in common is CYA. A lack of personal responsibility also is there. These things were all products of a culture of passing the buck; people not wanting to make hard choices in fear of hurting someone's little feeling. This culture has morphed into people like this superintendent that fill our local, state, and Federal governments.
The school superintendent has absolutely zero interest in this boy's life, predicament, or beliefs. It is all about his (George Goodwin's) little career, and him being yet another 'Peter Principle' idiot that rose to a level of incompetence in the system.
Unfortunately the Good Lord didn't give out equal amounts of common sense to everyone. Goodwin is proof of that, as he is just another robot bureaucrat riding the system.
Let's hope the folks at West Point accept this young man. They definitely have the opportunity to strike a blow for common sense here.
Fortunately, West Point says this will have no affect on his ability to come to the Academy. If I were the kids in school, I'd tell the Principal to buzz off regarding searching my car. I guess the Principal forgot about the 4th Amendment.
I am glad to see the kid fight back. Maybe he can get the law repealed or at least reworded. But at least West Point is showing some common sense. Did anyone ever here of a guy called Thomas Paine?
All zero tolerance policies are instituted because someone in authority wants policy that can be invoked without need for investigation or consideration (ie. thought) A zero tolerance policy for weapons actually is impossible to invoke because almost everything can be used as a weapon including bare hands and feet! Of course conservatives will blame the so called liberals for stupidity for this and similar insanities (I do hope the kid wins) but I see it as another symptom of our sick society where people equate security with restriction of liberty. The new model for the American paradigm is the prison. We incarcerate more of our citizens than any other nation on earth, everything becomes modeled after prisons, schools, banks and airports especially. If some folks feel insecure, the first technology Americans go for is penal. Our schools bring our kids up to be Zeks in the new corporate world order, wage slaves to the corporate elite.
Land of the Free and the home of the Brave anyone? Bahhh.
at my high school some kids keep their shotguns in their truck one kid got caught and was told to keep it covered as long as its locked and covered they dont care
The "Absurd Results" doctrine in effect (the zero-tolerance policy that is)! If you want an example, read this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870447150457444709021853413...
I didn't know it was in a locked car and inside of a tool kit are you serious. are we supposed to not allow people with hands in schools because they are weapons.
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