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Petzal: Marlin Firearms Closes Its Doors (in North Haven Plant Only)

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March 26, 2010

Petzal: Marlin Firearms Closes Its Doors (in North Haven Plant Only)

By David E. Petzal

Latest Update: At  2:40 PM, EDT, I talked with a spokesperson from Freedom Group, which owns Marlin, and the news is better than first reported. The company is not, I say again, not, going out of business. The North Haven plant will be closed, but Marlin Firearms will be moved to a new location and will continue. Where, exactly, I don't know. Also, I wish to eat crow publicly for assuming the general news media did a story on guns and got the facts right. I of all people should have known better.

Earlier Update: It's not known right now whether this news report is correct. Marlin may indeed be closing, period, or it may be moving elsewhere. I have a call in to the parent company to find out what's going on and will advise you as soon as I learn anything.

This release from ABC News says it all: Marlin Firearms, which has been in business since 1870, will close its doors next year. I have no insight into why, except for the obvious one—the company was not making enough money, and its owner saw no chance of it doing so. It’s possible that someone will buy Marlin, but the odds on that are pretty long. In the modern history of American gunmaking only one company has come back from the dead, and that is Savage.

The irony is that Marlin has always made good guns, and its most recent models—especially the RX-7—are some of the best ever. If you have a Marlin, hang onto it. If you were thinking about buying one, do so forthwith, because there ain’t gonna be no more.

And wish some luck to the men and women who will be losing their jobs. Whatever happened was no fault of theirs.

Comments (124)

Top Rated
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from deanlikes2fish wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dangit Americans, buy more guns!!! We need to keep american gun manufacturers alive! Marlin will be tearfully missed.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from NolanOsborne wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Looks like I am buying a Marlin this summer.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from wjgrunde wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I hope the goverment does not have any influence in thier decision to close the doors! If so hold on to your hats.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Democrats in Connecticut are the reason for moving, just like Winchester.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Moose1980 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I'm from Connecticut and from the local news reports, it seams it is just the plant closing, not Marlin all together. I think ABC News may have gotten their facts wrong. I think they are just moving the operation out of state, but again, thats just how I've read it from our news.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Moose1980 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Actually in the artcile I just read, it says directly that the company is moving the work out of state. So lets not write off Marlin just yet.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dave, you'd likely know... but hasn't Marlin built its reputation more or less entirely on the lever gun? And haven't those been declining in market share for decades now?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Wasn't Winchester basically resurrected too?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Finally, IMO, Marlin could probably stay in business by narrowing its product line. I, for one, don't first think "Marlin" when someone says to me "Semi-automatic .22"

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

(Sorry about breaking that into three posts. Your filter seemed to think that when all three paragraphs were combined, there was an obscene word.)

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Semi-auto

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Cgull wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The loss of any American gun maker would be a knife in the chest of all Americans. Glad Marlin is just moving.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from bustedclays wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Freedom Group says they are closing to consolidate and save money. Probably going to move to North Carolina

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

What is going on with the site filter?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Seems that Marlin will continue but not in Connecticut.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I wish I could find out for sure, I was thinking of picking up a new lever gun.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

David, you don't think the Union had anything to do with it like what happened to Colt?

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Maybe Ron Coburn will buy Marlin from that money leaching holding company and have the same results as he did with Savage.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Maybe Ron Coburn will buy Marlin from that money leaching holding company and have the same results as he did with Savage.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Sorry about the double tap...too much caffeine!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Another thought... What about Hornady and all those new rounds they and Marlin have marketed together?

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from NolanOsborne wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I was thinking the same thing Bee

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Scott in Ohio wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Field and Stream obscene word detector would not post my comment from earlier this morning either

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Scott in Ohio wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

With that dang detector, it's a wonder that DP can post anything on here at all

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jbird wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I hope they're just moving, it's a shame those folks at that plant will have to lose their jobs, but it's better than the whole company. I'd think w/ the economy the way it is, the company (Marlin) making the cheapest good shooting bolt action would be doing just fine. Doesn't mean all their other models are though.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I hope this isn't a final R.I.P. I only own one Marlin, but now I'm going to treasure it. I'll be looking closer at Marlins at the next gun show.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Luckily I got my "RX-7" in time...

Whatever you want to call it, it's a great shooter with perfect function.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Wonder how long before the Remington 700 starts to look like the Marlin XR7...?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The XR7 uses some cheap processes to make the receiver out of tubular bar stock, but the results seem to be fine. I feel bad for anyone losing their jobs, but the unions in that part of the world have been sucking companies dry for years. Why do you think Winchester moved? Cheaper overhead, lower tax rates, motivated labor force, business-friendly state,....need I say more?

As for the Remington/Marlin/Hornady relationship, who do you think makes Remington's bullets that are not Core Lokt's? The Accutip, Copper Solid, and many of the SP's not branded as Core Lokt in the Express line are Hornady according to my sources. They own Barnes now too, but I have seen nothing speaking to Barnes not providing bullets to Federal and other competitors. Maybe they will.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jjas wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

FWIW, I read on "another site" that the operations would be moving to a Remington plant in the south.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from labrador12 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Look at the good side, Conn. gets to lower its carbon footprint!! Soon the only carbon being emitted in the whole country will be by Obama as he flies Air Force #1 around the country lecturing us on Why we peons can't be allowed to drive pickup trucks. What is the carbon footprint of touching off a 30-06? Maybe that's how he can ban guns??

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin firearms is closing it's doors next year after 140 yrs of manufacturing firearms. It joins the likes of Fox, Stevens, Charles Daley, Knight and Kraig. This is truly a very very unsettling trend for our country. With Buck, Ka Bar, Gerber and many other American Companies out sourcing it is only a matter of time before they are gone too. Then what?
Another American Icon gone.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 86Ram wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

That's great news that they aren't goin out of business... but it doesn't help those workers at the plant that is closing

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

This move has nothing to do with Democrats in Connnecticut. That's a fine excuse, but it's absentee private equity that has no sense of community. Sure, they can make 'em cheaper elsewhere, so they move to the lowest cost place. They don't answer to anything but the bottom line; their kids don't play Little league in N Haven, they don't go to the Elks or Lions club on Friday night.

The bottom line, likely? Cerberus, which owns Freedom, which owns Remington, which owns Marlin, lost a bundle on Chrysler and GMAC...and like good God-fearing Republican VC sharks, are hosing the little guy who's been making 336s for 30 years. That's your GOP, boys. Fella runs Cerberus is named Feinberg. Big GOP moneybags.

Mass. is just as "unfriendly" to business as CT and you don't see Ron Coburn packing out of Westfield.

People live in places for a myriad of reasons. Businesses should have more in their reasons than the almighty dollar and I'll bet you a sawbuck "Freedom Group" does not.

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman;

First, it doesn't look like Marlin is closing. For cultural and taxation reason, Guns and Ammo Magazine just got run out of California; Marlin is just more of the same. There's yourDemocratic Party, boys . Look to see other eastern and far western gun-related businesses moving south or midwest; that's where America is now. Everything west of the Sierra Nevadas and northeast of the Alleghenies is Obamerica, not counting a few terror cells in Chicago and Detroit.

+9 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

DEP - crow tastes too good. How about Brussels sprouts? Just kidding, I wouldn't even subject Pelosi to Brussels sprouts ... well, maybe ... though raw unsweetened lemons are more appropriate for that old crow. Apology accepted.

And just think ... yohan went out and got his XL7, which he's obviously been looking for an excuse to buy all along. I wonder if this caused a nationwide rush on New Haven stamped Marlins.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

That is great news. We need all the gun manufactures we can get.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Joel Panian wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Thank goodness the company isn't going out of business. That would be a dagger through all our hearts.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from BowtechWVU wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Buy more marlin firearms people and marlin is a excellent firearm

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

It seems like Marlin guns sell all the time? Could it be profits solely based on not making enough of it? I lost a job of 12 years to one of these "parent" company owners, and NOW my job of 2 years is in the same boat.
Dam* it all! America makes fine firearms at decent prices, and manufacturing them is part of our history.
Dam* it all...I sure hope they stay in business.
Glad I have my Marlins...

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I got an idea for a gun that would outsell marlins mod. 60. someone tell em please ;)

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hardwoodjdc wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

IMHO This is just another example of American manufacturers not being able to compete in a global marketplace due to government regulations, taxation and the labor unions socialistic attitudes. We need to move toward producing the best value in the marketplace before we can really recover. I own one Marlin and six CZs. Why? The Czs are a higher quality product when compared to Ruger, Remington , Marlin etc. and with more featurss at a better price why should I buy less for more? O.K. guys, go ahead and clobber me but I drove Chevy trucks for years and look at what that got me! Just the way I see it.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from LutherMartin1517 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Let's stop electing Dems!

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from kudukid wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dear G-man,

Which party is it that comes up with 99.99% of all gun laws - local, state and federal?

Which party controlling Chicago for who knows how many centuries enacted a gun ban on all handguns in defiance of the Supreme Court DC vs. Heller case?

Which recently elected president said he wants to do away with all "right to carry" laws?

Let's have some vote on this!

+12 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman you are on the money, typical of republican corporate thinking, move to a place where you can pay people less and then Blame "regulation" or "liberals". All I know is that some Conneticut gunsmiths are gonna get reamed by a Republican, who will then blame the Democrats.

-10 Good Comment? | | Report
from kudukid wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella,
I notice you haven't answered any of the questions I posed.
Give it a try.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from elmer f. wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

well, i guess i am confused, i thought remington bought out marlin. i love their guns, and i know many others do as well. when i think of a lever gun, or high quality rimfires, i think of marlin. if they indeed go completely out of business, it will be a sad, sad day for the firearm community. i guess i will need to figure out what to sell, so i can buy up a 1895 cowboy soon!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from nc30-06 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin, you would be welcome in North Carolina.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman, Bella, keep drinking the "Kool Aid" {8^D

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from naco96 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well that explains why about two weeks ago when I went to the North Haven factory to have the trigger on my 22 Model 94A worked on they told me that they would not do it. They said it was to old (serial number begins witht an L.....about 55 years) and that they would not work on a gun that old. I guess that was not the case. Any suggestions about a good gun smith willing to take on the job? My guy will not touch it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

While we are all entitled to our opinions on why Marlin or any other company moves it's operations, one thing is for sure; it is a move to increase the bottom line. That is the cornerstone of a free enterprise system. Take that away and what do you have? Socialism or worse. If the current location is in a tax friendly location with a motivated work force not overburdened by regulations or rules, what would motivate them to move? New letterhead? Not likely.

On a related note, I was visiting my local gun emporium yesterday afternoon to pick up an O/U shot gun that I had been eyeballing for sometime and right next to it was a new Marlin XL7 in .25-06. The bolt was a little sticky (perhaps due to gummy grease), finish was plain jane to say the least, but I thought it had an excellent trigger. It was an ok rifle, but I felt no motivation to take it home.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Or XR7 or whatever the synthetic model is...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

My 336 in .35 REM. is 38 years old; is scratched and marred - up like me - will kill anything I aim at with dependable precision and is now my favorite whitetail gun. I'm not afraid to drop her on the trail or on a wall as I'm prowlin Whoops! Bears in my beehives ----- gotta go.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Zermoid wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Sad part is I DID buy (what I thought was an American made gun) from Springfield Armory, a 1911A1, only to find a small stamping on the dust cover of "IMBER MADE IN BRAZIL". Can't win........

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

My 336 in 35 REM. is my favorite woods gun. She is scratched and marred-up a bit - like me. She will kill anything I aim at and flawlessly reloads. She don't mind damp weather and embraces the cold. Unike some of my more expensive Whoops, gotta go - bears in my beehives.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Apologize for above brain cramp. A sow and two cubs. Sorry to bend thread so much. My fault - turned power off.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

i've wondered for a long time about why so many firearms companies operate in states that are not friendly to guns in the first place. maybe marlin just decided to move to a less hostile state. what sucks about it is the people who will lose their jobs. the state could care less.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well, yo yo the idiot, you had to come back out from under your rock. I must admit, you were missed like an abscessed tooth. Sounds like you are still regurgitating you left wing bull snot, so maybe some poetry will un-wad your little pink undies. Wife been keeping you busy with housework? You still have not learned to spell, so I hope you can get help with the big words.

+7 Good Comment? | | Report
from hengst wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

How about a raffle and we all guess what state they are moving to...I say Texas or Montana....I have also often wondered that so many firearms manufacturers are based in typically democratic, un-gunfriendly areas

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Scott in Ohio wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

i certainly don't agree with everything, but regarding Yohan's comment:

"Wanna talk money? Talk about what that war costs.
And lets not forget how mcuh Boy George tapped the SS fund,.. and let us not forget when Clinton left we had a balanced budget. I dont care how many interns he boinked, we had a balanced budget"

- He's right on the money.

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

good call, crm. couldn't have said it better.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well short crotch been busy
Busy helping to get the health care package through.
Now a bunch of jerk water crackers like you.
Too dumb and or blind to see the woods for the trees who don't earn enough to change thier minds.
Will get insurance they could never other wise aford
all the while acting like there gona spin aroud and fall dead at the very thought.

But thats gonna be way cheaper for all of us than the way it was.

Your B S incarnate dude .. you know it, I know it, and any one who's listened to your thinly veiled attempts at seeming sobriety knows it too.
Just crawl back into the bottle ,.its OK you can sober up next week. When the weather is better or the wind blows different ,. or your teeny tiney boots dry out from pi$$ing youself
Ever notice little man I spel jut bad enough to cause you hives yuk yuk !

By 4 now ,...

-12 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Shakespeare of stupidity has once more escaped the lunatic asylum!
The Master of dumbassery, with wits to equal an earthworm, has returned.
Hopefully, poetry will soothe his soul, or engross him enough that the guys in the white coats can once more get him back in his padded cell!

THE TROLL
By crm3006 (The Poet Lariat)

Part IV

He yuk yuks and babbles all over the blog,
I've heard more intelligent things from my dog.
We don't know who let this dull troll on the loose,
But wish he was scarce as his old boarstagmoose.
For yo yo is good for just only one thing,
to bring on a headache and make our ears ring.
An EXPERT on all things, old yo does he claim,
but all of his writing sounds fake, stale and lame.
His exploits are many, his facts very few,
but write about anything, it's something yo knew.
He's been there and done that, whatever IT was,
and knows more about IT, he just knows he does.
He will run on and blather, ad nauseum plus,
until we all wonder, what does he discuss?
Now if you would see yo, get a pain in his guts,
just mention the man who can rap old yo's nuts.
An old boy from Texas, he is what he is,
but the Poet can really make yo yo's head fizz!
The curse words will fly, and misspellings abound,
if yo thinks this good Texas man is around!
Yo insults, and threatens, the blog will turn blue,
But unless plagiarism, yo says nothing new.
He has told the same story more times than we know,
of someone who near "got him kilt", long ago.
But a brawl in a barroom or a cathouse, or so,
is the closest to combat this ogre did go.
He tells all his stories, and tries to sound right,
but read them real closely, and try as you might,
you just can't believe that his posting sounds real,
old yo yo sounds more like a phony REMF deal.
This crap about fighting big snakes with a knife,
Good gracious he's led such a wild, wooly life!
When writing on charlie and S.E. Asia and such
when looking for real stuff, you don't find too much.
For those that have been there, for real and for true,
they don't say overmuch 'bout things they did do.
For all of yo's boasting, if you will just look,
it sounds like his stories came out of a book.
Or second hand stories? From bars? Maybe so,
one feels that there ain't too much truth to old yo.
With that I will leave it, I've written enough,
this rhyme about yo yo has got really tough

+14 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

another good one from crm. yohan, you babbled so much i actually had to scroll ALL THE WAY back to the top just to remind myself about the original topic. you are so far out there, you think that babbling is the way to draw people from the real problem. try being realistic for just once. marlin had other things going on besides just polotics in their decision to move. some on here have said unions and others have said lack of sales or expensive manufacturing issues. a liberal environment is not good for firearms makers or magazines. you will see more of the same in the future and the states that appreciate the revenue that these companies bring in and support the job creation will get the benefits from it. places like chicago and california will begin to see revenue fall and hopefully learn from it, though unlikely. all of your babbling will not change the facts about who supports jobs and more of your combativeness is reflective of why jobs are being lost. the only good thing is that lost jobs in conneticut mean more in a state that is more receptive to a legitamate company and not likely to tax or pentalize them for providing jobs and revenue to that state. please learn to spell before the dems elect you! ok don't.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from micko77 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

RE: moving to another state to avoid unpleasantness of original state of manufacturer--I got a phone call from Les Baer the day he decided to move his plant from Illinois to Iowa, largely due to the anti-gun, anti-business mindset of our leaders in Chicago--oh, I mean Springfield. Having the sword of Damacles hanging over one's head day after day sucks the fun right out of life, and IL frequently threatens "assault gun" manufacturers and owners. Beyond that, yet on a similar vein, the AR platflorm and "tactical" shotguns have been selling like crazy since BHO was anointed, leaving less money for us common folk to buy more traditional rifles and shotguns. There has been at least one muzzle-loader company close, and several companies bought by others. Think Thompson-Center and S&W. As for me, I'd love to pick up both a 336 and a "94, in 308 and .44 Mag respectively, but I think I'll pay the kids student loans for now!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from mattreney wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

im from ct i live like two towns over i think i actualy heard remington bought them out and then shut them down not sure though but i have a few fire arms from that factory any ideas if the prices will be affected? just curious thanks
-matt reney

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from mattreney wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

im from ct i live like two towns over i think i actualy heard remington bought them out and then shut them down not sure though but i have a few fire arms from that factory any ideas if the prices will be affected? just curious thanks
-matt reney

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jakenbake wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Way to yell "fire" in a crowded theater Mr. Petzal! I kid, I kid, I'm glad they aren't closing but it still bites for the workers at the factory...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from micko77 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh yes, I forgot; Intermedia Outdoors, who provide Guns and Ammo, Shotgun News, Shooting Times, as well as the Sportsman Channel have left California for Peoria, IL of all places. I sincerely wish that all manufacturers and competitions would follow Ronnie Barrett and tell Californication what they can do with their gun laws and pull out completely.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from stanleyda wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Are there really people in this country that believe the bottom line is not the most important thing in a bussiness? The bottom line is what causes a person to get up and go to work or decide if they want to risk their money.Why is it that the stupid think it's ok for the government,state and local governments to take more of the money that companys make. They don't make the money, they only collect it from those that earn it. I only hope these BIG liberal States wake up before they drive all their DUMB MASSES into other freedom loving states. Every where these DUMB MASSES go they take the most and give the least. Their so stupid as to think the government and give them something without taking from others who earned it. They don't even know or remember that the congress and senate did vote for the war we are in but did not have the balls to fight.They then begin to whine and cry about it,becoming the enemies biggest allies. While writing the checks for the war, YES it is the congress and senate that write checks and have the money for wars and anything else. Bring the companys and leave the UNIONS and DUMB MASSES to there own SOCIALIST DEMISE. If anyone wants to know what the whole US will look like under these Liberals, just look at those citys and states they run now. They are all broke and for the most part HELL HOLES. They only promise to take more, never, never, doing with less.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

take a look at the people's republic of california while they are writing IOU's to their state employees and tell anyone they should move a pro firearm company there when the pro firearm magazines get pushed out. how's progress and their own liberal agenda working for them now? maybe when they get rid of the wimpiest republican that ever took office and arrested the other traitors, they can once again become at least relevant in this country! not likely to happen. maybe when california and new york get washed away by something really bad, we can all get on with our lives! until then we can all watch the liberals and sir swartz run cali into the ground and learn from those lessons until obummer gets us all into a cival war!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Huh, a monarchy dont look so bad now does it? only takes 10% of your income and only 20% in wartime :D:D:D
(double facepalm)
When the annals of history will report on the long gone american empire its gonna have the flag next to the noun
Singular
stupidity
Plural
countable and uncountable; plural stupidities
stupidity (countable and uncountable; plural stupidities)

1. (uncountable) The property of being stupid.

I suppose you can put it down to gross stupidity, but that's not much of an excuse.

2. (countable) An act that is stupid.

That stupidity cost me the job interview.

3. Obstinacy.
(Stupidity is a lack of intelligence, understanding, reason, wit, or sense.)
(proove me wrong anybody :D:D:D )

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.
-socrates

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Never argue with Idiots. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. :P

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin was owned by a Republican, and a Republican made the decision to move, regardless of whatever blame is being ladled onto the center from the Right. Is Marlin going to move their employees? Not bloody likely, they will be sacrificed to the profit margin. At the new location, new contracts will be made with new workers and if there was a union before, you can bet there ain't no room for workers rights now. Blame the Dems again for another Republican decision. When Marlin began Conn was a republican state, then the Repugs Were the Left and the Dems were the Right! Everybody dosi-dos then the left gets blamed. You "cons" want a one party state run for the benefit of your would be wealthy masters, but that ain't America.

-5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh and the Democrats are not the Left and never were. They continue to be the Center. The Greens are the Left. Go Green! Just because the Dems are left of the Right doesn't make them the Left. There are political parties well left of the Dems. The last elections proved it, The Dems are smack dab in the middle, don't agree? go back to middleschool geometry class!

-7 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Republican Right has become the party of Racist, sexist homophobic people who would rather hold on to their hatred and prejudice more over health care, or security in their jobs, housing and savings.
When I look at the insults Tea Baggers scream at Pols they don't like they are all about racism, sexism or homophobia, all the attacks are "ad hominum" and none have any substance. When I look at legislation the tea baggers object to I see that all the things they are objections to are attempts to fix the messes that the cons themselves made. The "cons" crashed the economy themselves by stripping the country of manufacturing and substituting economic voodoo and open warfare for economic goals. The "Health Extortion" companies have trashed access for Americans to health care, but the Tea Baggers object to regulation of health insurers...
In anything that might benefit the average person the tea baggers and the "cons" are against it and screaming apoplexy about it.
Then there is "gun control". It is the Right that usually resorts to violence in America. We haven't had armed leftists in rebellion since the SLA. Leftists in America chain themselves to things, right wingers shoot people. People like MLK. Gay people. Black people. The problem is that the Right is Authoritarian at it's roots, and authoritarians tend to try to quell what they don't like with force. Humanitarians talk things out, authoritarians will try to beat you up to change your mind, because their arguments aren't about fairness, they are about What the Right Wants and what others want rarely counts with them because compromise ain't in the book. If the Rightists were more likely to use their arms for defense and hunting, rather than threatening people with them then "gun control" wouldn't be an issue. We could come to an accord about preventing access to guns for the insane and the violent without rancor. But the irrationality and undercurrent of violence in the metaphorical fabric of the Right suggests that the real reason the Right objects to "gun control" is because the Right is full of irrationally hateful violent people who know dang well that they themselves would be considered violent nuts by any sort of firearms regulatory agency.
At any rate, with the things written by "cons" about liberals convince me that you cons all want to be Zeks in a one party state, so you can all goosestep into a brave new all white Calvinist state where you can lovingly serve your corporate masters and live humbly in the hovels they leave you till you die of the industrial diseases they will refuse to consider coverable by health insurance.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Mission accomplisehd smokle the little weasel out of his hole see what he's got,.

To bad liitle man
Sam ole same ole,..accusation,. retribution and recrimination ,.and if you read your own stuff your a real champ when it comes to contradicting your self,
( The Doc was here last night ,.
he says it the booze:)
Youirs is the stuff of which fools racists are made.

Which would also cost you the farm ( ot the trailer) if it came to calling yor bluff like I did before
Involving a wager of significant coin of the realm. Say 10 or 20 or 40 K ,or hell make it 100 o ra mil.
B s walks and money talk little man.
But that would only shut you up.
Whch was not the goal last day or two ,.. need more poetic booze soaked blather such that the people curious as to your location education emplyment and substance abuse programs have something more to go on.

Since you probabaly scrap book this stuff ( and je^K Off ) at night to it.
I never faught a big nasty snake in my life ,but shot a few rattlers,. which remind me of you.
Those who knew where I was going explained how to kill big nasty snakes just in case one grabbed me and I couldnt shoot it.
You aint stupid ,littel man . you just aint smart,.
It a rule ,.little dogs dont kick big dogs asses yuk yuk .

ingebrigtsen is right on the money

I have a framed plack in my office which says
"Never argue with idiots ,. they will bring you down to their level then beat with experiance."
Very true ,.
So thanks again ,.. do believe its getting narrowed down.

and by the by ,.. I know good men from Texas and other states too ,.and you are not among their number.

OK off to a Scandnavian breakfast / brunch ,.with a German woman. who could probabaly kick your A$$
yuk yuk
Gotta watch the weight but every now and then on Sunday I let-her snap,
One shot of Aquavit,
Boiled fish,. potataoes sauges eggs and lefse, lingun berry jam , sourdough muffins and about a quart of Tea
Prior to which Im goona go to a place of worship and thank God for healtcare reform in the US.
I'll even say one for you ,. cause people don't come into the world as sour and F ed up as you.

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from Tim Platt wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well you know Yohoho there is no such thing a free health care. What there is is 30 to 40 million uninsured Americans who Uncle Sam wants to start taking huge amounts out of your monies via the IRS to pay for those who can't afford it.

If you are so enamored with socialism why not move to China and share the wealth and own nothing? It appears you believe we should all have the same thing. Unfortunately nobody has the incentive to work harder to get ahead when there is no ahead...

I know you are intelligent enough to understand this is just a huge money grab by Washington. Never before has a prerequisite to living in America been owning something.

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from John L wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Wow,
Johan and Bella, whatever you're smokin', it's working.
Mind altering at it's best.
And it's the TEA PARTY,should you ever have the courage (doubtful) to call me by the other name, you'd find a fistful of nose.

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

CRM & YOHAN, even though your banterings are fun to read, considerthe the result of the recent Feud with "Another person"
kept going for several days......

I enjoy some of both of your post and would hate to see you both sanctioned.

Bella you too.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Ralphy !! just about to leave quick check and its You!!
Nice to hear youe still kickin yuk yuk

No taking to you about this Ralph ,. You crack backs for a livng or drill teeth or maybe intenest.Doubt your a plasic surgeon ,. may OBGYN maybe.
What you are not (reading posts of yor)is a busness man
( which dosent make you a bad guy ) it just makes you wear blinders to the real issues.
We already pay enough tax ( have for years ) that heathcare should be "free" for everyone as it is,. but it aint.That alone from a purly economic point of view is criminal.

That togethre with the largest wealth transfer in recorded history taking place durring Boy Georges administration
3 years ago 2 % of the population controled over 20% of the nations wealth and God knows what it is now .
How did we manage that? ,.
The same time honored ole way my friend. Tax the crap out of the middle and lowe classes ,.while cutting breaks up te wazoo to the top 10 % ,Not to metion corperate tax breaks,.. and not for the little / mildde guy , for the giant / a$$ed enterprises.

For sure nothing is free ,.but opaying double suck in my mind to which is what we are presently doing.
and the real issue is not socializm.
It cost goong forward.
When a service or idustry becomes preditory and or such a burden on society that resonable responsible people are curtailed from reasonable life style.
Due to said preditory and or oppressive business practices,.sooner or later the rumblings of collective barganing will begin.

When people must choose between healthcare and food , when peole loose thier homes becuase they got sick and couldnt pay ,.. when one industry or service becomes so pwerful it become opressive .
We as a people are allowed to legislate,
We are there now and have been for years.
The rights ( Rep ) position was there are not enoug Dems to get it done,..Gues what ? there were and when this starts t shake out,. there will be more and more and more ,. that say yup enugh is enough.
We gave em too much rope ,they tried to hog tie us and damn nearly got it done with our rope .

If you get snapped in the PP for a few k,. it means your doing Ok ,.. If I get snappd in the PP ( alomost a certainty ) its ok cause in the longer run and to some extent even the shorter run its gonna cost less.
for everyone. If you are an MD assuming you dont own the hospital ,. tbhe affect on you will be minimal.

Also assuming you are mre or less correct ( I think its more ) 30-40 million additional people will also
BE PAYING IN to the pool or system. Now,.. not being a buisnes of busionss mentality I don expect you or many to perciecve the effect that will have.

When it comes to healtcare ,. yes I do belive,.
to keep our nation strong we should all be afforded healcare. Do I believe we shoud all have the same thing ,. no .
(third generation wealfare resipiants should be put in work camps)
But I believe in competition and the healtcare industry has been the neighborhood bully long enough.
As to my intellegence due to the fact that my father thought I was mildly retarded when young ,.
My school teacher mother had me tested ,.
IQ was 135+ ,. turns out I was just kinda bored with my father at the time.

Calm down Ralh its all gonna be ok.
We tried it the other way and look wht happened,..
See what happnes now,..
Geeze,. now maybe two shots Aquivit
Have a good day ,. shoot someting : )

in

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Moshi point taken
Pretty much done with him anyway.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Enlightenment really works like this:

your sleeping in the dark, nice and snug and safe. but u dont even notice cos your sleeping and enjoy it.

then someone puts a 100W lightbulb directly in your face and shake u awake...

so how do most people react??? -most get annoyed, cursing threathening or even lashing out to whomever woke u up from your peacefull rest/coma..

will the person wakening u ever get thanks?? not bleeding likely.

so keep on trucking anyway, cos when the house is afire its about saving lives not being "nice" to ppl..

now yohan + to u as a fellow underachiever ;)

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from The White Slug wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The problem is that firms owned by Wall Street holding companies go for the quick buck and ruin brands (see Penn and Timberland). Is it illegal for company owners who are making a good living to want to make the very most money they can? Of course mot. Is it immoral to throw the workers to the wind that built up your brand in the first place, just to get richer? You tell me. That is the short term greed that has us able to purchase fewer and fewer American made products. And fewer and fewer good jobs for Americans.

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from jim in nc wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

To DP: Good heavens, David, look what you started!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

A big problem is that making a profit has come to trump social responsibility. A big complaint I hear from the Right is that "We can't afford to give everybody health care"...But giving was never on the plate anyway, somebody pays no matter what. What I see as "cons" really objecting to is the notion that people unlike themselves might be entitled to the same access to various opportunities they themselves have taken for granted for years. They hear the phrase "representative government" and think that because that black guy in office doesn't resemble them that he doesn't represent them. The representation misinterpeted becomes more important than the democracy. Just because the founding fathers were (mostly) white (there was at least one Jew),male and landowning (women couldn't neccesarilly own anything at the time, being considered not quite human back then) that in our modern day similar standards should still apply. But, this particular mixed breed says No. America is no longer composed primarally of English descended people, and there is no reason why being English should carry any premium over being Polish, Mongolian, Chocktaw or Zulu. I occasionally chuckle at imagining the brawl that would occur if my many and varied ancestors had to sit in the same Theater together. The English, Irish, Welsh and Norwegians all were at odds at various times in the past, and the Prussians, Passamaquoddy and Romany only confuse the issue more. So our present leader represents me (and all those other partly brown people) just fine! If there were some "rule of precident" and "I was here first" meant anything worthwhile, then one would have to recognize that the Native Americans were here first and that the first building usually erected in any settlers community was not a church but a Tavern! Drinking alcohol was far more important to the colonists and pioneers than going to whatever church you might name! Our great nation was founded by people who believed firmly in drinking prodigiously and a state of inebriation was far more common than an odor of sanctity! Christianity shmistrianity, there may have been a lot of people who claimed they were motivated by supposedly "christian " principles but if you read the social context they were all drunks too! The first rebellion was about Whiskey, the triangle trade was 1/3 rum and our National Anthem is filked from a drinking song ("To Anacreon in Heaven", look it up!).
After All Jesus wouldn't have turned water into wine if he didn't like wine better and without beer, the English Colonies would never have even happened (several expeditions to America turned back because they ran out of beer!).
So don't tell me that White Christians deserve to be the be-all and end all model for American culture because the notions that view is based on are so alien to the way things really were it ain't funny. America was founded by drunken people and these days quite a few people should just take a stiff drink and settle down a bit, After all, I know that for my own part, I'd rather have a bottle in front-a-me than....(dah dum dum)

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella, Gman, Yohan, etc.;

There's no point in reasoning with you, because there's no arguing with name calling. So let me give you the words of Winston Churchill: “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

It is just a fact that liberal policies don't make life better or easier in any of the places they've been tried in. Where has gun control reduced crime? When has socialized medicine (though it sounds like it should be a good thing) brought better health care to any country it has been tried in? You know the reaction to the USA going socialized medicine got in Canada? Negative! Now the Canadians are all asking, "Now that the US has gone socialist, where are we supposed to go when we get sick?"

Now Marlin is moving. Do you think it is cheap to move to a brand new factory somewhere else, leaving behind perfectly good workers and infrastructure? Marlin moved because the neighborhood got too unfriendly for them to do business there. If you are nuts enough to think that has anything to do with Republicans, then enjoy your little world and vote Obama. But don't get sick. And buy the guns you need now.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh, and Bella, the Democrats are in the center? Abortion on demand, gay marriage, no handguns for anybody but military (and not all of them!), socialized medicine, and the Fairness Doctrine is center? What's Left, then? These are left, and the Democrats are left. The tree huggers are just a little more left. It'd be helpful if we all spoke the same language when we talk. Get with the program.

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gunslinger, I left an answer to your question on the thread about Bushnell scopes from last week.

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from Ed J wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

So Marlins mission is to employ people!
I always thought their mission was to make guns.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dr. R,
I'm amazed and glad to hear from you, so long.
Did your daughter get married (avatar)?

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

i live in norway, and by your standards we have socialised medicine. it works so well here that michael more when making sicko had tu cut those clips out cos the average american just would never belive it :P so there focusfront, spin on it :D

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago
from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The only "gun control" (aside from actually handling the piece) i support is keeping firearms out of the hands of violent crazies and unsupervised children. Anybody who thinks diagnosed insane sociopaths need access to firearms is likely diagnosably insane and sociopathic.
But a big issue is that so many right wingers feel so little connection to society and so little empathy for their fellow citizens that they don't see that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander too. America's biggest problems will never be solved with guns, because you can't fix the underlying structure of society with a gun, only with a school.
Ignorant people claiming Obama is a "socialist" have no idea what socialism is and claim "wealth redistribution" is on the way, when the "wealth redistribution" Already Happened behind your backs! This is the first generation that has no expectation of doing better that it's parents, because that redistribution has pumped all the money into the corporate class and empoverished the middle class. And the Right wants them to keep it! Plainly the Right has no interest in a strong middle class, but would prefer an ideologically straitjacketed ignorant serving class dependent on corporate handouts and without property or access to education or any other factor that would facilitate social mobility. But that won't be a free society...If you look at any "con" policy and extend it out to it's logical conclusion that is where you wind up. If Freedom and happiness for everybody were their real goal, then health care for all wouyld be considered a Right, as would educational access and housing access. But the Right doesn't want a happy America, the Right wants a Scared America that will swallow it's lies without question. But that is not what the Constitution says...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh and the Canadians I know would never ever trade their health care system for ours. A Canadian I know admitted that sometimes you have to wait for non-essential treatment but that rich Canadians wait the same time as poor ones and the system is fair, which ours ain't at all. Canadians didn't regulate health care itself, they regulated the health insurance companies instead, and that is what makes it fair. And as far as waiting goes, I have known a six month wait to see a primary care practitioner anyway. Even Canadians get health care faster!
Everywhere I look I see that "con" policies interfere in peoples lives and support the corporate interests that hurt families. They are agin health care for everybody, they want to impose their 16th century mentality on the schools by redacting textbooks, they are agin helping people save their homes and they are all for any corporate tax break that comes up. They want to let mining and energy companies exploit public lands and they want to privatize public services that were built with taxpayer funding like highways. They want to sell America to the highest builder and they want to repeal regulation on clean air and water too!
The "cons" will only be happy when they have made all the other citizens of this country profoundly unhappy. Dubya nearly succeeded in this, but then, he could get two elections thrown, but he couldn't throw three!
So given this equation, that either a minority of noisey antisocial protofascists are unhappy or everyone else is unhappy and both parties are never both going to be happy, then I am all for making the so-called "conservatives" (who conserve nothing) the unhappy party, because the "cons" will never be happy. Real happiness comes from contentment, and even after the "cons" have subjugated the rest of us they will not be happy themselves, because dominating others is never a route to happiness (even if sociopaths tend to think it will). You want to be happy? Sharing your cookies always makes more people happy than taking cookies from others and leaving them hungry. It is better to have half a cookie with a friend, then it is to have a whole cookie alone and lonely. Stealing cookies from little hungry kids is easy, if you are an adult, but it won't make you happy and the other adults will think you are a donkeys rear end. Basic kindergarten teaching, but the "cons" fail here. They want all the cookies left, even though they shipped the bake oven overseas.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Ahhh, Bella. Only if it really worked that way!

Best regards

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Fucus front ,. to day a little busy so this gotta be as brief as I can make it ,.
Just read your last and you deserve attention
you and ( guessing) 30 million others.

Maybe its something in the water where you live.
Or maybe just simple as political braIn washing by your elders ,.but I'll be dipped if I can figure it.

Mr Churchhil was from the UK if your recall
(A country which still has a KING :)
then refereing to the theory of adverse selection.
and or ( possibly ) the theory of unit cost avrageing )
But for now just adverse selection
Insurance comapanies swear by it.
As actuarial tables developed by some very bright people are used in condjunction with other mathmatical maodels to limit exposure to what is calleed down side risk.( adverse selection )

IE; Throw Momma from the train when she gets to old or sick,.or dont let her get on at all ,cause she has pre-existing conditon ,.. bad for the bottoem line.

IN business there is a practice of what is called "laying off risk ",. which is to say ,.
I want this deal ( percieved oportunity ) but I can't afford (all) the enherant risk,. so Im gonna get other people to go with me on this,.. which limits my down side and allows what I consider opportinity for profit ,. or gowth or what ecver it is I see as valueaable even though its not the whole enchalada.
Thus, under certian cercumsances to share the missery equally or nealry so allows a "a deal " which couldn't other wise be done.
AS you may guess these deals sometimes do not see profit as an immediate goal,. rather the creation of an environment by ground work meant to spawn strength and later indirect profit.
It also prevents ( especially in a sweeping social situation ) your Moma ,. Your wife and or your chilluns from being thrown under the train.
Which is how the insurance companies would prefer it to be.

If the United Staes did not enter , WWII. most of Europe would be speaking German now
And so it is with the insurance health care industy.
If/ had we not stepped in.
We will within ( less than ) a decade be AT THE ECOMIC MERCY OF THE HEALTHCARE INUSTRY.

Without this law / change in the grand scheme going foreward .Your major economic fear no matter what your coverage and cost now . Will be healthcare costs.
IE:$5 a gallon gas will seem like they are giving the stuff away comapared to health care cost.

Add to that the insurance / healcare industry has been allowed to opperate for decades unchecked and unregulated which is OUTSIDE and juxtaposed to the public interests.

It creates nothing less than a back door tax by the top 20 % of income and wealth levels to that below it ,.
Simple as that,. and it weakens us as a nation within.

War can be waged in many diffeent ways ,.and if I wasnt convinced to the contrary . The idea that ecomic warfare being waged from within might be an itersting topic of discussion.

All anyone (that can read ) needs to do is compare Healtcare costs in the past 15 years to any economic indicator,.GDP GNP cunsumer price index cost of living and or just plain growth adjusted for inflation.
Its like credit card companies ( which Mr Obama has also begun to deal with ) ,. charge what ever the hell we can get away with & Social responsibility be damned

So,. left unchecked without change sooner or later the question becomes,. can YOU afford insurance?.
It is mathmatical certainty ( exacerbated by the present econimic climate) that going foreward MANY MANY MANY more than now,. will not be able to cary the debt / priemium cost .

I know this how? I know this because its my business to know this, as part of my business is small buiness retirment plans,.
What Iv seen is this.
Busineses are forced first to limit then to eliminate insurance for employees so they can stay in buisness.
Which means the employees have a choice look for another job ( good luck ) ,. go into the market and get it.
No barganinbg power,. which means they (the Inscurance comapies ) are going to RIP YOU A NEW ONE!!Or remain unisured Plesant thought that millions are livng with every day.
Case in point ,. husband 42 .wife 34 two kids 8 & 5.
They now pay in excess of $14,500 for healthcare with a deductable,.. which is 20% + plus of there income and it aint goona get better .
NOW THAT,. IS NOT OK !!!

So,. when it catches up to YOU Mr focusfront ,..or a family memeber .
Will you or they die cause you cant afford the operaton ,. or when they drag you or your wife ( the person you promised to love protect and care for) or the "chilluns" into an ER
Whicg is the point at which hospitals are then obligated to treat you or them .
Will you loose the house ( the place you and yours call home) because YOU COULD NOT AFFORD TO PAY THE PRICE / PREMIUM ?.ot maybe the jus the college fund or the IRA plus tax and a 10% penaly

"Its just a fact that libral policies dont make life better or easier in any of the places theve been tried"
etc etc .

Ya know I wish your were my competition cause i wouild just LOVE LOVE LOVE to compete with you.
Then again,.. better for you your not.
First thng (weakness) i look for for is when someone makes statements of opinion,.. proferd as fact .

Fact is I talk to people in Canada on a regular basis ,..and that is not at all what I hear,..
Hmmm ?? fact your focus front-ness?? or fictional opinion.
Fact is I talk to people in differnt counties on a regular basis and what I hear is.
That we are the laughing stock of many nations on certain issuees.
One for relecting Boy Goerge and the hunter for the second time and two for allowing bought and paid for polititions to lobby for obcene corparate greed. Intent being to limit or kill healhcare reform under the cloak of less government.

To reason with me sir is what I and others call pretty easy ,.if you have the facts or can back up what you say.
But if you call reason,.. the enforcement of opinion based on nothing niore than opinion and or the differnce of opinion than you are corect sir
You cant reason with me
As you do not possess the criteria,.
to reason with me and those similarly disposed .

And lastly Oabma dosent want your guns. What he wants for the first tiems since Clinton is to keep you healthy enough to afford the ammunition and cercuimstance to go shoot your guns.
And so there is no mistake as a concervative liberal
I all all the guns I need last week ,..
But last week I bought anoter one,
Brefly felt guilty as always ,.. but hey
I like guns : )

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Cool, Yohan. I just helped my old buddie buy a nice Marlin 30-30 lever gun at a gun show. Nice wood & checkering, nice bright bore too. We tried it out on my range when we brought it home and it was sweet, made that steel plate ring nice...
Marlin began in Conneticut, because that was the "American Ruhr" at the time, the birthplace of industrial technologies where canal and river systems coupled early industrial freight hauling with waterpower driven machinery. As access to a river is no longer neccesary for firearms manufacture, Marlin has no real need to be in Conn, but hasn't Marlin developed ties to the community in North Haven in the century and some Marlin has been there? Last time I checked Marlin Manufactured sporting long arms and Conneticuts gun laws unlikely hinder sales that much. Besides isn't that Lieberman's country, and he is scarcely any sort of liberal. It ain't as if Marlin made saturday night specials. No this is about a republican CEO who doesn't understand the use of social capitol and put's the dollar over all, then blames somebody else for the repercussions of the deal.
As far as my earlier comments about the Right and violent tendancies I got one more word. HATARI.
Proves my point, I'm glad they moved on these false christians before they started a bloodbath in the name of Christ.
If you are really a "christian" your Jesus stated you are to love your enemies, turn the other cheek and render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. Anybody who claims to be a "christian" and advocates killing LEO's is no christian! Jesus did not wear camo!

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Unless Marling makes a statement, it's unlikely we're going to know exactly what motivated them to move. Maybe their insurance rates were too high, or property taxes. (Shrug).

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I pay bout 20 bucks for a consult with my doctor no matter what my proplem might be and a symbolic sum for any treatment i might need. most less than 30 bucks, even for an mri. and im guaranteed treatment by the gouverments waitinglist guarantee within 6 months even for treatments i might have to que up for and have long waiting lists for. anything serious like cancer would be dealt with forthwith. and i dont have ANY health insurane.
everything is payed by with my taxes and everyone have equal rights. the rich can afford privatized healthcare if they so wish, but have the same rights as john doe from whatsits. paying 36% taxes is nothing compared to what i actually get back. :)
And funny to see that i agree more with bella and yohan than most other indoctrinated people here :D:D:D
Atleast they think for themselves. ;)

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella

That would be "HUTAREE" wackos in Michigan and elsewhere.

Check the photos on msn.com and tell me they were the cream of the crop. Geez.

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from jbird wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Geeze! Can we address some facts here? First, when one company (Remington) buy another company (Marlin), and they both make the same product (guns), then naturally they're going to consolidate some operations (move a Marlin plant's production to a Rem. plant). This isn't about Unions, Republicans, Democrats, Tea Baggers or Obama, it's business. It's happened hundreds of times to hundreds of businesses. I've worked in the auto industry for over 15 years and have seen it time and time again. I don't like it, but unfortunately making an honest living and an honest profit just isn't enought for 'shareholders'. "Higher returns" is all they care about, and 'consolidating' plants is one way to get them. Gun sales exploded after Obama's election, and are still strong, so I don't think blaming him is very informed. I fully realize state's "incentives" can make or brake a company's willingness to stay, but it just doesn't seem like the case here either. Maybe in the future, whenever you all hear of one company buying another company, that makes the same product, you can rest assured 'consolidation' is gonna happen, and save yourself all the political fervor.

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Y'all folks screaming at Bella, Yohan and me are a stone hoot. I tell ya up front, ain't none of ya in my Final Four in the Nobel Economics pool. I know good and well the dynamics of free markets. I also know the dynamics of responsible citizenship, individual and corporate - which extends beyond carryin' a sidearm into Starbucks just becuz ya can! Yeehaa!

To that feller there what quoted that Churchill dude to me, I'm gonna hit ya with a little old Russian saying:

"Capitalism is a system in which man exploits man. Socialism is just the reverse."

Now, I reckon most of y'all are gonna take this as some kinda Commie saying and compleeetly miss the point and say more bad things about me and my poor old gray-haired Democratic mother. Go right ahead, it just makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. What a beautiful breath of fresh air we gots in the good ol' US of A now with a Dem in the White House, and majorities in both houses of Congress! Yeehaa! Makes me want to take my shoes off, put my feet up...and make you smell 'em!

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Yohan: learn to spell. I am a patient man but was unable to finish your lengthy post; try not to butcher the English language while you are defending Obama butchering our rights.

All: I recall being 16 and asking my father for a car. I had many, many good reasons for why I should have a car. They really were good reasons, too.

My Dad had exactly one reason why it could not happen; "You don't have the money for a car, and I can't afford another one." My one hundred good reasons were trumped by his one reason.

Too bad he wasn't Barak Obama. He'd have just borrowed the money. Never mind about paying it back. Now, we are trillions (!) of dollars in debt to the Chinese. Or did you think he just printed an extra two trillion dollars over the last year?

Last week I saw my pregnant daughter. I put my hand on her tummy to feel the baby move, and reflected that this baby will be paying all her life for this president. Parents are supposed to pass inheritances on to their children, not crushing debts. That is how I feel. Now go back to your name calling.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

focusfront, congrats to you! Some of the other posts make me want to puke yours made my day.
A plant moving but fortunately staying in the U.S. has degenerated the talk to this drivel amongst us?
Can't believe I said amongst.

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin is moving for a simple reason. Labor unions and a very serious tax situation with the state. No company will exist for long in any area if the profit margin is controlled by an outside entity. Some of you seem to think that when you invest huge dollars in a business you should not be able to recoup some of the rewards of that investment. This very simpleton thinking is putting us in the hole we are in today.

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Yohan, ye're gettin' too abstract fer most these folks.

I got a good story fer ye, 'bout a 'friend' of mine who, though he is a liberal Democrat, is also an entrepreneur, and therefore buys his own health insurance. Came time the premium got too high so he and his missus tried to get the old high deductible policy. The insurance folks dug high and low through their documents and said, 'No! You have high blood pressure when you go to the doctor every two years! Gotta keep your high cost policy!'

So my friend went and got a stress test, which showed his heart is just fine. And the insurance company saw the results and said, 'Well, maybe you don't have a bad heart, maybe we'll drag this out another six months and then change our minds.'

But the joke was on them. In all the doctor visits he took to determine that he really was healthy, somebody took a PSA blood test. And guess what? Turns out my friend has cancer!

So now the insurance company has to pay for all the surgery and tests and stuff instead of him having to use a high deductible.

So it ain't funny to have cancer, but there is some dark humor involved in watching the insurance company have to pay, I guess.

FocusFront, feller, that big deficit ye're screeching about had its origins in good ol' GW Bush's White House. Lowerin' taxes for rich folks, buyin' old folks drugs without finding savings in hospital procedures to pay for 'em, and then givin' the banks 750 bil to keep us from goin' down the toilet completely is gonna put a hit on your wallet, muchacho.

Goshamighty, when it comes to havin' basic knowledge about the way Barack is tryin' to climb us out of the pit of horror W created...most of y'all are true chicken lipped, pea brained REMFs! Harrumph! Harrumph! Egad!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Focusfront, whay yer grandbaby is gonna be paying for is Dubya's War for Halliburton and all the other corporate give aways. The Health insurance reform bill merely means she will be able to afford a doctor. The Reform Bill actually REDUCES the deficit. If however you want to continue being extorted by the HMO's you can still send them gifts of your money.
And thank you Wamhunter (it was you, wasn't it?) for correcting me on the Hutari thing. I could never ever fall in besides such christofascists although I could see myself mannig (womanning) the barricades next to my local LEO's defending my community from such violent twisted people. And No, none of 'em look to swift.
I look at the clips from their website "training video", they are fools. No helmets, no kevlar and they fire standing up like Bruce Willis in a movie, not taking cover, not firing and moving, not covering each other. They wouldn't have held the SWAT team up for 2 minutes deploying like that. I don't claim to be any expert, but the Hutari are very lucky the Feebs took 'em out, because every man jack would be very dead if they had tried to go toe to toe with SWAT. We have cops who read this blog! How about a comment on bloody minded heretics with guns blowing away police funerals? I'd like to read your thoughts.
I remember a certain Iraq vet who called such as the Hutari as "bleached Hadjis", this scenario played out just the way he predicted...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Ingebritsen, everything I have seen and heard tells me Norway is a loverly place where dour but sensible people live. Compared to places here one could really "pine for the fiords". Thank you for your input, and I would love to see Norway some day in person and have a nice sealmeat roast with you and yours. I have some Norwegian Ancestry somewhere waay back (likely back about the time of Harold Fairhair or Ivar the Boneless) and here in our household we use the ancient runes every day.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Fuxcus front what i just said didnt make it YUK YUK
So this cause Im outta time ( like normal)

Yassir Ahrifat (sp) one of the most murderous men of our time used to grab a baby when the cameras were on him.
Phoney low life sum succing bottom feeder that he was.
So this stuff about being concerded your grand baby will be saddled with debt ,. based on hear say and opinion ( yours ) does nothing but Pi$$ me off.

If your concerneded about your grand daughter or son.
Pull you head out sir,.. do the home work,. like myslef and many many others. Then put a shoulder to the wheel like myself and many many others,..if fnot for you for your grand child.

Ya ya I cant spell YUK YUK ,.I spell ok ,. im just a bad typest normally in hury,
My hands take an extra large glove (and thats tight) so my fingers are big and i hit two keys often
Further I have people who do that FOR me if it really counts.Type that is.

If the truth stings there focus front fix it.
But dont whine when the light of truth is shined right smack on that which is not.

On the lighter side hearing of the Marlin Closing ??
I recently bought an xl7.
Having had a life long love afair with Mauser 98s.
I can say for anything that might bite back ,. for me its still the controlled feed 98 in a 9.3x62 or heavier. Never hunted bears ( no clue why but I kinda like em) but once had to stop one that no doubt gonna vision andn the intent to recycle me into bear poop,.. did that with 8x57 in a Mauser 98 with 196 gr bullets.

Hwever my grandfathers vernacular
"Iyam pretty smiling " about buying dat Marlin gun ya .

The lines of the gun are American Classic but due to
the plastic stock more of a weapon to me than a hunting rifle. No big deal however,.. just my perception.

But for a 30-06,.with 3-9 scope rails rings and tax included coming in just under $360 aint bad.

No extnsive shooting yet but after cleaning the bore 3 times and once after every round fired (six rounds total three at 30 and three at 50yds)
Three rounds went waay less than an inch at 50 yds.
If i get what i think Im gonna get at 100 and beyond Im gonna buy anoher one.

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from Andrew Ferraro wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I'm shocked how many people on these posts argue against profit. With Marlin jobs were not "lost" they were moved. Capital flows to where it's welcome. When I evaluate business locations, naturally I look at taxes, labor cost and regulations- wouldn't any sane person? Would you set up a domestic manufacturing operation in NJ or SC- think about it. The goal of business is to make money and it's the only way we can pay our workers. I live a few miles from the abandoned Penn Reel plant. We all grew up with Penn reels and let me tell you in their later days of they made some real crap. The same can be said for countless American companies that had no competition in the 50s, 60s,70s and never innovated or reduced costs. In the end, they all tried to live of reputations and consumers fled to better products. The fact is private equity firms buy bankrupt companies and try to turn the around- they do this to make a profit and it also saves jobs.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman ,. you bella ingebrigtsen jabird amd a few Im sure I missed get it.
Im ghetting prety bussy so will need to stand down fo rn ow but wuill be wacthing Keep up the good fight
on what ever front we can,.. they will try a flanking move.

Ingebrightsen ,.. as one decended (2ond gereneration )here from Norweay
Welcome ,..I ecourage your input on an issue that has seen very powefull and convincing people.
Do everthing legal and not,. to convince "the chickens" ( meaning the American public) That Colonel Sanders who runs a resuraunt known as Kentucky fried chicken
( senonomous with the repiblican party ) is a good guy and we should do what he says.
Ie: just yump into da fryer cause da republican say it da right ting to do ,.Ya yuk yuk
Bull SH !T is my respose to that notion .

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I don't see a problem with Federal spending to ensure minimum standards of access to health care. I'd have preferred a single payer option but the change we have is a start.

Comes to this: The US is tasked to provide for the common defense. Defense against illness seems legitimate to me, since illness in turn, when widespread, undermines our national security (economics wise and manpower wise). So a health care bill that is projected to cost $100Bn per year for 10 years, and then -150Bn per year in the following ten years (reducing the deficit) seems like a good idea to me. It's certainly a better investment than the trillion or so (throwing in health care and costs subsumed in the regular pentagon budget) that we pissed away diddling around in Iraq.

The other thing I'd like to point out, to the complainers, is that you and I are already paying for health care for the uninsured. When you wind up hospitalized and the insurance company coughs up ten dollars for a fricking tylenol that costs two cents at the local pharmacy, why do you think the hospital charges that racketeer's rate? It's because they are REQUIRED by Federal law to treat people who show up in ERs with threatening conditions. And who shows up at ERs with threatening conditions? Why, it's uninsured folks whose illnesses go untreated until the illnesses become dangerous.

So it's pay one way or pay the other. Or else, just decide that ERs don't have to treat people who don't have insurance. But if your attitude is "Screw my neighbor, he's on his own" then it's an open question why any community would have you, or why any group of people would think they were well-served by a gov't that embraced that kind of nonsense.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella, Gman, etc.:

Again, to echo Churchill, health care will be fairer once Obama's law kicks in. It will be far more expensive and worse quality across the board (unless what has happened everywhere else in the world doesn't happen here, that is), but at least it will suck for all of us together. If fairness of this sort is all that matters, there is no sense in arguing further. And as for lowering the deficit, no government entitlement has ever, ever, ever lowered the deficit; even the CBO says that Obamacare will spend unimaginable amounts of money. But maybe they are wrong and Obama is right. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

Yohan: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I saw your clever misspellings of my handle. It has been my experience that liberals instantly go to profanity when they run into people who disagree with them. I'd prefer to think that you are just a lousy typist.

Marlin was smart to move before they were driven out. We may all have to do the same; there is still the tenth amendment.

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Health Care law reduces deficits by cutting expenditures in other arenas, notably Medicare. Since you're citing the CBO, it seems fair to point out that they did not say what you imagined they said. In fact, the CBO report notes that the Health Care law will reduce Federal expenditures in comparison with the status quo.

Here is the link:

http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm

From the summary:

"CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation will produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period."

According to Table 1 of the CBO report the HC Law saves 247Bn over current projected expenditures. About $120Bn in 2019.

There's lots of other pencilneck tables in there, mostly detailing various savings over current projected expenditures and breaking each down by whatever. Have fun.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Mike Diehl;

I mentioned the CBO because the CBO is virtually on Obama's team, and even the CBO says that costs will go up with this program. If the deficit does not go up it will be because the money is charged or taxed out of us to begin with, or the cost of care somehow goes down. Unless you think that adding a huge new layer of government bureaucracy to the health care mess as it is is somehow going to lower expenses. Maybe it will; it just never, ever has in the past, or in any other country it has been tried in. Why can't we learn from history? "A fool never learns; a smart man learns from his mistakes; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others." Which are we here?

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

"I mentioned the CBO because the CBO is virtually on Obama's team.."

No limit to conspracy theorists' ability to discount facts that don't support their claims I guess. So, they're, uh, "On Obama's team" but you claim they project huge additional debts even though they actually project debt reduction. Seems like you've got a problem of internal consistency there, in addition to the fact that the CBO said *exactly the opposite* of what you claimed.

"Unless you think that adding a huge new layer of government bureaucracy to the health care mess as it is is somehow going to lower expenses. Maybe it will; it just never, ever has in the past, or in any other country it has been tried in."

Seems to me that this particular bureaucracy replaces a bunch of other bureaucracy. So it's more a substition than an added layer.

"Which are we here?"

What you mean "we", kimosabbe?

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

You're wastin' your breath, Mike. These guys're just mad their bozos are outside lookin' in.

The only saving grace here is that we have two more years to use every parliamentary trick in the book to throttle them GOP bozos and restore some regular guy sanity to this great nation of ours.

But that'll give Boehner more time to work on his tan.

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Anyone know why Thompson/Center left gun friendly NH for Taxachusetts ? My theory - It has something to do with "Black Rifles", or lack thereof. 'Cept for DP, all I read about now is "Black Gun" stuff. I must be missing something, don't own one.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Izzat so? T/C is a great gun company, Had a T/C 50 cal Hawkin gun and it was awesome, if heavy. I swapped it for a lighter Traditions ML for the sake of the Tree stand (less weight, a sling, better sights), but I will be the first to say the T/C was the finer quality arm. I'd love to have a Contender pistol, 'cause I like single shot pistols. I hadn't realized they had moved to Mass.

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Maybe the health care was better and less expensive in MA, allowing T/C to increase their profit margin.

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Smith and Wesson bought them out - they're located in Springfield, MA. as most know. I hope that they'll still be manufactured in Rochester, NH. A lot of the town works there . But as Mike indicated, maybe they'll save money with Mitt Romney Healthcare and Bain Capital.

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from JOHN ANDERSON wrote 4 years 6 days ago

I hate to see any company especialy firearm wise close shop and move.Especialy state side.Jobs are scarce as hen teeth.Its a damn sad deal.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Shakespeare of stupidity has once more escaped the lunatic asylum!
The Master of dumbassery, with wits to equal an earthworm, has returned.
Hopefully, poetry will soothe his soul, or engross him enough that the guys in the white coats can once more get him back in his padded cell!

THE TROLL
By crm3006 (The Poet Lariat)

Part IV

He yuk yuks and babbles all over the blog,
I've heard more intelligent things from my dog.
We don't know who let this dull troll on the loose,
But wish he was scarce as his old boarstagmoose.
For yo yo is good for just only one thing,
to bring on a headache and make our ears ring.
An EXPERT on all things, old yo does he claim,
but all of his writing sounds fake, stale and lame.
His exploits are many, his facts very few,
but write about anything, it's something yo knew.
He's been there and done that, whatever IT was,
and knows more about IT, he just knows he does.
He will run on and blather, ad nauseum plus,
until we all wonder, what does he discuss?
Now if you would see yo, get a pain in his guts,
just mention the man who can rap old yo's nuts.
An old boy from Texas, he is what he is,
but the Poet can really make yo yo's head fizz!
The curse words will fly, and misspellings abound,
if yo thinks this good Texas man is around!
Yo insults, and threatens, the blog will turn blue,
But unless plagiarism, yo says nothing new.
He has told the same story more times than we know,
of someone who near "got him kilt", long ago.
But a brawl in a barroom or a cathouse, or so,
is the closest to combat this ogre did go.
He tells all his stories, and tries to sound right,
but read them real closely, and try as you might,
you just can't believe that his posting sounds real,
old yo yo sounds more like a phony REMF deal.
This crap about fighting big snakes with a knife,
Good gracious he's led such a wild, wooly life!
When writing on charlie and S.E. Asia and such
when looking for real stuff, you don't find too much.
For those that have been there, for real and for true,
they don't say overmuch 'bout things they did do.
For all of yo's boasting, if you will just look,
it sounds like his stories came out of a book.
Or second hand stories? From bars? Maybe so,
one feels that there ain't too much truth to old yo.
With that I will leave it, I've written enough,
this rhyme about yo yo has got really tough

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from kudukid wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dear G-man,

Which party is it that comes up with 99.99% of all gun laws - local, state and federal?

Which party controlling Chicago for who knows how many centuries enacted a gun ban on all handguns in defiance of the Supreme Court DC vs. Heller case?

Which recently elected president said he wants to do away with all "right to carry" laws?

Let's have some vote on this!

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman;

First, it doesn't look like Marlin is closing. For cultural and taxation reason, Guns and Ammo Magazine just got run out of California; Marlin is just more of the same. There's yourDemocratic Party, boys . Look to see other eastern and far western gun-related businesses moving south or midwest; that's where America is now. Everything west of the Sierra Nevadas and northeast of the Alleghenies is Obamerica, not counting a few terror cells in Chicago and Detroit.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well, yo yo the idiot, you had to come back out from under your rock. I must admit, you were missed like an abscessed tooth. Sounds like you are still regurgitating you left wing bull snot, so maybe some poetry will un-wad your little pink undies. Wife been keeping you busy with housework? You still have not learned to spell, so I hope you can get help with the big words.

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from LutherMartin1517 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Let's stop electing Dems!

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman, Bella, keep drinking the "Kool Aid" {8^D

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from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

another good one from crm. yohan, you babbled so much i actually had to scroll ALL THE WAY back to the top just to remind myself about the original topic. you are so far out there, you think that babbling is the way to draw people from the real problem. try being realistic for just once. marlin had other things going on besides just polotics in their decision to move. some on here have said unions and others have said lack of sales or expensive manufacturing issues. a liberal environment is not good for firearms makers or magazines. you will see more of the same in the future and the states that appreciate the revenue that these companies bring in and support the job creation will get the benefits from it. places like chicago and california will begin to see revenue fall and hopefully learn from it, though unlikely. all of your babbling will not change the facts about who supports jobs and more of your combativeness is reflective of why jobs are being lost. the only good thing is that lost jobs in conneticut mean more in a state that is more receptive to a legitamate company and not likely to tax or pentalize them for providing jobs and revenue to that state. please learn to spell before the dems elect you! ok don't.

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from labrador12 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Look at the good side, Conn. gets to lower its carbon footprint!! Soon the only carbon being emitted in the whole country will be by Obama as he flies Air Force #1 around the country lecturing us on Why we peons can't be allowed to drive pickup trucks. What is the carbon footprint of touching off a 30-06? Maybe that's how he can ban guns??

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

While we are all entitled to our opinions on why Marlin or any other company moves it's operations, one thing is for sure; it is a move to increase the bottom line. That is the cornerstone of a free enterprise system. Take that away and what do you have? Socialism or worse. If the current location is in a tax friendly location with a motivated work force not overburdened by regulations or rules, what would motivate them to move? New letterhead? Not likely.

On a related note, I was visiting my local gun emporium yesterday afternoon to pick up an O/U shot gun that I had been eyeballing for sometime and right next to it was a new Marlin XL7 in .25-06. The bolt was a little sticky (perhaps due to gummy grease), finish was plain jane to say the least, but I thought it had an excellent trigger. It was an ok rifle, but I felt no motivation to take it home.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

It seems like Marlin guns sell all the time? Could it be profits solely based on not making enough of it? I lost a job of 12 years to one of these "parent" company owners, and NOW my job of 2 years is in the same boat.
Dam* it all! America makes fine firearms at decent prices, and manufacturing them is part of our history.
Dam* it all...I sure hope they stay in business.
Glad I have my Marlins...

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from kudukid wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella,
I notice you haven't answered any of the questions I posed.
Give it a try.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Another thought... What about Hornady and all those new rounds they and Marlin have marketed together?

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I don't see a problem with Federal spending to ensure minimum standards of access to health care. I'd have preferred a single payer option but the change we have is a start.

Comes to this: The US is tasked to provide for the common defense. Defense against illness seems legitimate to me, since illness in turn, when widespread, undermines our national security (economics wise and manpower wise). So a health care bill that is projected to cost $100Bn per year for 10 years, and then -150Bn per year in the following ten years (reducing the deficit) seems like a good idea to me. It's certainly a better investment than the trillion or so (throwing in health care and costs subsumed in the regular pentagon budget) that we pissed away diddling around in Iraq.

The other thing I'd like to point out, to the complainers, is that you and I are already paying for health care for the uninsured. When you wind up hospitalized and the insurance company coughs up ten dollars for a fricking tylenol that costs two cents at the local pharmacy, why do you think the hospital charges that racketeer's rate? It's because they are REQUIRED by Federal law to treat people who show up in ERs with threatening conditions. And who shows up at ERs with threatening conditions? Why, it's uninsured folks whose illnesses go untreated until the illnesses become dangerous.

So it's pay one way or pay the other. Or else, just decide that ERs don't have to treat people who don't have insurance. But if your attitude is "Screw my neighbor, he's on his own" then it's an open question why any community would have you, or why any group of people would think they were well-served by a gov't that embraced that kind of nonsense.

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from Tim Platt wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well you know Yohoho there is no such thing a free health care. What there is is 30 to 40 million uninsured Americans who Uncle Sam wants to start taking huge amounts out of your monies via the IRS to pay for those who can't afford it.

If you are so enamored with socialism why not move to China and share the wealth and own nothing? It appears you believe we should all have the same thing. Unfortunately nobody has the incentive to work harder to get ahead when there is no ahead...

I know you are intelligent enough to understand this is just a huge money grab by Washington. Never before has a prerequisite to living in America been owning something.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

i've wondered for a long time about why so many firearms companies operate in states that are not friendly to guns in the first place. maybe marlin just decided to move to a less hostile state. what sucks about it is the people who will lose their jobs. the state could care less.

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from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

good call, crm. couldn't have said it better.

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from jamesti wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

take a look at the people's republic of california while they are writing IOU's to their state employees and tell anyone they should move a pro firearm company there when the pro firearm magazines get pushed out. how's progress and their own liberal agenda working for them now? maybe when they get rid of the wimpiest republican that ever took office and arrested the other traitors, they can once again become at least relevant in this country! not likely to happen. maybe when california and new york get washed away by something really bad, we can all get on with our lives! until then we can all watch the liberals and sir swartz run cali into the ground and learn from those lessons until obummer gets us all into a cival war!

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from Scott in Ohio wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

With that dang detector, it's a wonder that DP can post anything on here at all

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella, Gman, Yohan, etc.;

There's no point in reasoning with you, because there's no arguing with name calling. So let me give you the words of Winston Churchill: “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”

It is just a fact that liberal policies don't make life better or easier in any of the places they've been tried in. Where has gun control reduced crime? When has socialized medicine (though it sounds like it should be a good thing) brought better health care to any country it has been tried in? You know the reaction to the USA going socialized medicine got in Canada? Negative! Now the Canadians are all asking, "Now that the US has gone socialist, where are we supposed to go when we get sick?"

Now Marlin is moving. Do you think it is cheap to move to a brand new factory somewhere else, leaving behind perfectly good workers and infrastructure? Marlin moved because the neighborhood got too unfriendly for them to do business there. If you are nuts enough to think that has anything to do with Republicans, then enjoy your little world and vote Obama. But don't get sick. And buy the guns you need now.

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from hengst wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

How about a raffle and we all guess what state they are moving to...I say Texas or Montana....I have also often wondered that so many firearms manufacturers are based in typically democratic, un-gunfriendly areas

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from The White Slug wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The problem is that firms owned by Wall Street holding companies go for the quick buck and ruin brands (see Penn and Timberland). Is it illegal for company owners who are making a good living to want to make the very most money they can? Of course mot. Is it immoral to throw the workers to the wind that built up your brand in the first place, just to get richer? You tell me. That is the short term greed that has us able to purchase fewer and fewer American made products. And fewer and fewer good jobs for Americans.

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Are there really people in this country that believe the bottom line is not the most important thing in a bussiness? The bottom line is what causes a person to get up and go to work or decide if they want to risk their money.Why is it that the stupid think it's ok for the government,state and local governments to take more of the money that companys make. They don't make the money, they only collect it from those that earn it. I only hope these BIG liberal States wake up before they drive all their DUMB MASSES into other freedom loving states. Every where these DUMB MASSES go they take the most and give the least. Their so stupid as to think the government and give them something without taking from others who earned it. They don't even know or remember that the congress and senate did vote for the war we are in but did not have the balls to fight.They then begin to whine and cry about it,becoming the enemies biggest allies. While writing the checks for the war, YES it is the congress and senate that write checks and have the money for wars and anything else. Bring the companys and leave the UNIONS and DUMB MASSES to there own SOCIALIST DEMISE. If anyone wants to know what the whole US will look like under these Liberals, just look at those citys and states they run now. They are all broke and for the most part HELL HOLES. They only promise to take more, never, never, doing with less.

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from BowtechWVU wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Buy more marlin firearms people and marlin is a excellent firearm

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Democrats in Connecticut are the reason for moving, just like Winchester.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The XR7 uses some cheap processes to make the receiver out of tubular bar stock, but the results seem to be fine. I feel bad for anyone losing their jobs, but the unions in that part of the world have been sucking companies dry for years. Why do you think Winchester moved? Cheaper overhead, lower tax rates, motivated labor force, business-friendly state,....need I say more?

As for the Remington/Marlin/Hornady relationship, who do you think makes Remington's bullets that are not Core Lokt's? The Accutip, Copper Solid, and many of the SP's not branded as Core Lokt in the Express line are Hornady according to my sources. They own Barnes now too, but I have seen nothing speaking to Barnes not providing bullets to Federal and other competitors. Maybe they will.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Wonder how long before the Remington 700 starts to look like the Marlin XR7...?

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dave, you'd likely know... but hasn't Marlin built its reputation more or less entirely on the lever gun? And haven't those been declining in market share for decades now?

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Unless Marling makes a statement, it's unlikely we're going to know exactly what motivated them to move. Maybe their insurance rates were too high, or property taxes. (Shrug).

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

"I mentioned the CBO because the CBO is virtually on Obama's team.."

No limit to conspracy theorists' ability to discount facts that don't support their claims I guess. So, they're, uh, "On Obama's team" but you claim they project huge additional debts even though they actually project debt reduction. Seems like you've got a problem of internal consistency there, in addition to the fact that the CBO said *exactly the opposite* of what you claimed.

"Unless you think that adding a huge new layer of government bureaucracy to the health care mess as it is is somehow going to lower expenses. Maybe it will; it just never, ever has in the past, or in any other country it has been tried in."

Seems to me that this particular bureaucracy replaces a bunch of other bureaucracy. So it's more a substition than an added layer.

"Which are we here?"

What you mean "we", kimosabbe?

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from nc30-06 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin, you would be welcome in North Carolina.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Mike Diehl;

I mentioned the CBO because the CBO is virtually on Obama's team, and even the CBO says that costs will go up with this program. If the deficit does not go up it will be because the money is charged or taxed out of us to begin with, or the cost of care somehow goes down. Unless you think that adding a huge new layer of government bureaucracy to the health care mess as it is is somehow going to lower expenses. Maybe it will; it just never, ever has in the past, or in any other country it has been tried in. Why can't we learn from history? "A fool never learns; a smart man learns from his mistakes; a wise man learns from the mistakes of others." Which are we here?

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

My 336 in .35 REM. is 38 years old; is scratched and marred - up like me - will kill anything I aim at with dependable precision and is now my favorite whitetail gun. I'm not afraid to drop her on the trail or on a wall as I'm prowlin Whoops! Bears in my beehives ----- gotta go.

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Apologize for above brain cramp. A sow and two cubs. Sorry to bend thread so much. My fault - turned power off.

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from NolanOsborne wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Looks like I am buying a Marlin this summer.

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from micko77 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

RE: moving to another state to avoid unpleasantness of original state of manufacturer--I got a phone call from Les Baer the day he decided to move his plant from Illinois to Iowa, largely due to the anti-gun, anti-business mindset of our leaders in Chicago--oh, I mean Springfield. Having the sword of Damacles hanging over one's head day after day sucks the fun right out of life, and IL frequently threatens "assault gun" manufacturers and owners. Beyond that, yet on a similar vein, the AR platflorm and "tactical" shotguns have been selling like crazy since BHO was anointed, leaving less money for us common folk to buy more traditional rifles and shotguns. There has been at least one muzzle-loader company close, and several companies bought by others. Think Thompson-Center and S&W. As for me, I'd love to pick up both a 336 and a "94, in 308 and .44 Mag respectively, but I think I'll pay the kids student loans for now!

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from micko77 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh yes, I forgot; Intermedia Outdoors, who provide Guns and Ammo, Shotgun News, Shooting Times, as well as the Sportsman Channel have left California for Peoria, IL of all places. I sincerely wish that all manufacturers and competitions would follow Ronnie Barrett and tell Californication what they can do with their gun laws and pull out completely.

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from elmer f. wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

well, i guess i am confused, i thought remington bought out marlin. i love their guns, and i know many others do as well. when i think of a lever gun, or high quality rimfires, i think of marlin. if they indeed go completely out of business, it will be a sad, sad day for the firearm community. i guess i will need to figure out what to sell, so i can buy up a 1895 cowboy soon!

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from jbird wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Geeze! Can we address some facts here? First, when one company (Remington) buy another company (Marlin), and they both make the same product (guns), then naturally they're going to consolidate some operations (move a Marlin plant's production to a Rem. plant). This isn't about Unions, Republicans, Democrats, Tea Baggers or Obama, it's business. It's happened hundreds of times to hundreds of businesses. I've worked in the auto industry for over 15 years and have seen it time and time again. I don't like it, but unfortunately making an honest living and an honest profit just isn't enought for 'shareholders'. "Higher returns" is all they care about, and 'consolidating' plants is one way to get them. Gun sales exploded after Obama's election, and are still strong, so I don't think blaming him is very informed. I fully realize state's "incentives" can make or brake a company's willingness to stay, but it just doesn't seem like the case here either. Maybe in the future, whenever you all hear of one company buying another company, that makes the same product, you can rest assured 'consolidation' is gonna happen, and save yourself all the political fervor.

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from John L wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Wow,
Johan and Bella, whatever you're smokin', it's working.
Mind altering at it's best.
And it's the TEA PARTY,should you ever have the courage (doubtful) to call me by the other name, you'd find a fistful of nose.

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from deanlikes2fish wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dangit Americans, buy more guns!!! We need to keep american gun manufacturers alive! Marlin will be tearfully missed.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I hope this isn't a final R.I.P. I only own one Marlin, but now I'm going to treasure it. I'll be looking closer at Marlins at the next gun show.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Enlightenment really works like this:

your sleeping in the dark, nice and snug and safe. but u dont even notice cos your sleeping and enjoy it.

then someone puts a 100W lightbulb directly in your face and shake u awake...

so how do most people react??? -most get annoyed, cursing threathening or even lashing out to whomever woke u up from your peacefull rest/coma..

will the person wakening u ever get thanks?? not bleeding likely.

so keep on trucking anyway, cos when the house is afire its about saving lives not being "nice" to ppl..

now yohan + to u as a fellow underachiever ;)

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from hardwoodjdc wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

IMHO This is just another example of American manufacturers not being able to compete in a global marketplace due to government regulations, taxation and the labor unions socialistic attitudes. We need to move toward producing the best value in the marketplace before we can really recover. I own one Marlin and six CZs. Why? The Czs are a higher quality product when compared to Ruger, Remington , Marlin etc. and with more featurss at a better price why should I buy less for more? O.K. guys, go ahead and clobber me but I drove Chevy trucks for years and look at what that got me! Just the way I see it.

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from Cgull wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The loss of any American gun maker would be a knife in the chest of all Americans. Glad Marlin is just moving.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

That's great news that they aren't goin out of business... but it doesn't help those workers at the plant that is closing

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from bustedclays wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Freedom Group says they are closing to consolidate and save money. Probably going to move to North Carolina

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from Sarge01 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

That is great news. We need all the gun manufactures we can get.

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from wjgrunde wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I hope the goverment does not have any influence in thier decision to close the doors! If so hold on to your hats.

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from Moose1980 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I'm from Connecticut and from the local news reports, it seams it is just the plant closing, not Marlin all together. I think ABC News may have gotten their facts wrong. I think they are just moving the operation out of state, but again, thats just how I've read it from our news.

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from MLH wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

What is going on with the site filter?

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from MLH wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Seems that Marlin will continue but not in Connecticut.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Or XR7 or whatever the synthetic model is...

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella

That would be "HUTAREE" wackos in Michigan and elsewhere.

Check the photos on msn.com and tell me they were the cream of the crop. Geez.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Maybe Ron Coburn will buy Marlin from that money leaching holding company and have the same results as he did with Savage.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Maybe Ron Coburn will buy Marlin from that money leaching holding company and have the same results as he did with Savage.

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Sorry about the double tap...too much caffeine!

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Wasn't Winchester basically resurrected too?

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Finally, IMO, Marlin could probably stay in business by narrowing its product line. I, for one, don't first think "Marlin" when someone says to me "Semi-automatic .22"

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Maybe the health care was better and less expensive in MA, allowing T/C to increase their profit margin.

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from jjas wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

FWIW, I read on "another site" that the operations would be moving to a Remington plant in the south.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Izzat so? T/C is a great gun company, Had a T/C 50 cal Hawkin gun and it was awesome, if heavy. I swapped it for a lighter Traditions ML for the sake of the Tree stand (less weight, a sling, better sights), but I will be the first to say the T/C was the finer quality arm. I'd love to have a Contender pistol, 'cause I like single shot pistols. I hadn't realized they had moved to Mass.

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from Scott in Ohio wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Field and Stream obscene word detector would not post my comment from earlier this morning either

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from RJ Arena wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I wish I could find out for sure, I was thinking of picking up a new lever gun.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh, and Bella, the Democrats are in the center? Abortion on demand, gay marriage, no handguns for anybody but military (and not all of them!), socialized medicine, and the Fairness Doctrine is center? What's Left, then? These are left, and the Democrats are left. The tree huggers are just a little more left. It'd be helpful if we all spoke the same language when we talk. Get with the program.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Yohan: learn to spell. I am a patient man but was unable to finish your lengthy post; try not to butcher the English language while you are defending Obama butchering our rights.

All: I recall being 16 and asking my father for a car. I had many, many good reasons for why I should have a car. They really were good reasons, too.

My Dad had exactly one reason why it could not happen; "You don't have the money for a car, and I can't afford another one." My one hundred good reasons were trumped by his one reason.

Too bad he wasn't Barak Obama. He'd have just borrowed the money. Never mind about paying it back. Now, we are trillions (!) of dollars in debt to the Chinese. Or did you think he just printed an extra two trillion dollars over the last year?

Last week I saw my pregnant daughter. I put my hand on her tummy to feel the baby move, and reflected that this baby will be paying all her life for this president. Parents are supposed to pass inheritances on to their children, not crushing debts. That is how I feel. Now go back to your name calling.

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from Ed J wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

So Marlins mission is to employ people!
I always thought their mission was to make guns.

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from mattreney wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

im from ct i live like two towns over i think i actualy heard remington bought them out and then shut them down not sure though but i have a few fire arms from that factory any ideas if the prices will be affected? just curious thanks
-matt reney

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from Zermoid wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Sad part is I DID buy (what I thought was an American made gun) from Springfield Armory, a 1911A1, only to find a small stamping on the dust cover of "IMBER MADE IN BRAZIL". Can't win........

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from shane wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Luckily I got my "RX-7" in time...

Whatever you want to call it, it's a great shooter with perfect function.

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

My 336 in 35 REM. is my favorite woods gun. She is scratched and marred-up a bit - like me. She will kill anything I aim at and flawlessly reloads. She don't mind damp weather and embraces the cold. Unike some of my more expensive Whoops, gotta go - bears in my beehives.

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Smith and Wesson bought them out - they're located in Springfield, MA. as most know. I hope that they'll still be manufactured in Rochester, NH. A lot of the town works there . But as Mike indicated, maybe they'll save money with Mitt Romney Healthcare and Bain Capital.

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from NolanOsborne wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I was thinking the same thing Bee

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from jbird wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I hope they're just moving, it's a shame those folks at that plant will have to lose their jobs, but it's better than the whole company. I'd think w/ the economy the way it is, the company (Marlin) making the cheapest good shooting bolt action would be doing just fine. Doesn't mean all their other models are though.

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin is moving for a simple reason. Labor unions and a very serious tax situation with the state. No company will exist for long in any area if the profit margin is controlled by an outside entity. Some of you seem to think that when you invest huge dollars in a business you should not be able to recoup some of the rewards of that investment. This very simpleton thinking is putting us in the hole we are in today.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I got an idea for a gun that would outsell marlins mod. 60. someone tell em please ;)

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance.
-socrates

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Never argue with Idiots. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. :P

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Moshi point taken
Pretty much done with him anyway.

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from naco96 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well that explains why about two weeks ago when I went to the North Haven factory to have the trigger on my 22 Model 94A worked on they told me that they would not do it. They said it was to old (serial number begins witht an L.....about 55 years) and that they would not work on a gun that old. I guess that was not the case. Any suggestions about a good gun smith willing to take on the job? My guy will not touch it.

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from 86Ram wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin firearms is closing it's doors next year after 140 yrs of manufacturing firearms. It joins the likes of Fox, Stevens, Charles Daley, Knight and Kraig. This is truly a very very unsettling trend for our country. With Buck, Ka Bar, Gerber and many other American Companies out sourcing it is only a matter of time before they are gone too. Then what?
Another American Icon gone.

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from Joel Panian wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Thank goodness the company isn't going out of business. That would be a dagger through all our hearts.

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from jakenbake wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Way to yell "fire" in a crowded theater Mr. Petzal! I kid, I kid, I'm glad they aren't closing but it still bites for the workers at the factory...

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from Moose1980 wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Actually in the artcile I just read, it says directly that the company is moving the work out of state. So lets not write off Marlin just yet.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Ahhh, Bella. Only if it really worked that way!

Best regards

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

(Sorry about breaking that into three posts. Your filter seemed to think that when all three paragraphs were combined, there was an obscene word.)

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Semi-auto

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from Mike Diehl wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Health Care law reduces deficits by cutting expenditures in other arenas, notably Medicare. Since you're citing the CBO, it seems fair to point out that they did not say what you imagined they said. In fact, the CBO report notes that the Health Care law will reduce Federal expenditures in comparison with the status quo.

Here is the link:

http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm

From the summary:

"CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation will produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010-2019 period."

According to Table 1 of the CBO report the HC Law saves 247Bn over current projected expenditures. About $120Bn in 2019.

There's lots of other pencilneck tables in there, mostly detailing various savings over current projected expenditures and breaking each down by whatever. Have fun.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Dr. R,
I'm amazed and glad to hear from you, so long.
Did your daughter get married (avatar)?

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

focusfront, congrats to you! Some of the other posts make me want to puke yours made my day.
A plant moving but fortunately staying in the U.S. has degenerated the talk to this drivel amongst us?
Can't believe I said amongst.

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gunslinger, I left an answer to your question on the thread about Bushnell scopes from last week.

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Yohan, ye're gettin' too abstract fer most these folks.

I got a good story fer ye, 'bout a 'friend' of mine who, though he is a liberal Democrat, is also an entrepreneur, and therefore buys his own health insurance. Came time the premium got too high so he and his missus tried to get the old high deductible policy. The insurance folks dug high and low through their documents and said, 'No! You have high blood pressure when you go to the doctor every two years! Gotta keep your high cost policy!'

So my friend went and got a stress test, which showed his heart is just fine. And the insurance company saw the results and said, 'Well, maybe you don't have a bad heart, maybe we'll drag this out another six months and then change our minds.'

But the joke was on them. In all the doctor visits he took to determine that he really was healthy, somebody took a PSA blood test. And guess what? Turns out my friend has cancer!

So now the insurance company has to pay for all the surgery and tests and stuff instead of him having to use a high deductible.

So it ain't funny to have cancer, but there is some dark humor involved in watching the insurance company have to pay, I guess.

FocusFront, feller, that big deficit ye're screeching about had its origins in good ol' GW Bush's White House. Lowerin' taxes for rich folks, buyin' old folks drugs without finding savings in hospital procedures to pay for 'em, and then givin' the banks 750 bil to keep us from goin' down the toilet completely is gonna put a hit on your wallet, muchacho.

Goshamighty, when it comes to havin' basic knowledge about the way Barack is tryin' to climb us out of the pit of horror W created...most of y'all are true chicken lipped, pea brained REMFs! Harrumph! Harrumph! Egad!

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

You're wastin' your breath, Mike. These guys're just mad their bozos are outside lookin' in.

The only saving grace here is that we have two more years to use every parliamentary trick in the book to throttle them GOP bozos and restore some regular guy sanity to this great nation of ours.

But that'll give Boehner more time to work on his tan.

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from focusfront wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Bella, Gman, etc.:

Again, to echo Churchill, health care will be fairer once Obama's law kicks in. It will be far more expensive and worse quality across the board (unless what has happened everywhere else in the world doesn't happen here, that is), but at least it will suck for all of us together. If fairness of this sort is all that matters, there is no sense in arguing further. And as for lowering the deficit, no government entitlement has ever, ever, ever lowered the deficit; even the CBO says that Obamacare will spend unimaginable amounts of money. But maybe they are wrong and Obama is right. Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

Yohan: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I saw your clever misspellings of my handle. It has been my experience that liberals instantly go to profanity when they run into people who disagree with them. I'd prefer to think that you are just a lousy typist.

Marlin was smart to move before they were driven out. We may all have to do the same; there is still the tenth amendment.

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from mattreney wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

im from ct i live like two towns over i think i actualy heard remington bought them out and then shut them down not sure though but i have a few fire arms from that factory any ideas if the prices will be affected? just curious thanks
-matt reney

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

CRM & YOHAN, even though your banterings are fun to read, considerthe the result of the recent Feud with "Another person"
kept going for several days......

I enjoy some of both of your post and would hate to see you both sanctioned.

Bella you too.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Huh, a monarchy dont look so bad now does it? only takes 10% of your income and only 20% in wartime :D:D:D
(double facepalm)
When the annals of history will report on the long gone american empire its gonna have the flag next to the noun
Singular
stupidity
Plural
countable and uncountable; plural stupidities
stupidity (countable and uncountable; plural stupidities)

1. (uncountable) The property of being stupid.

I suppose you can put it down to gross stupidity, but that's not much of an excuse.

2. (countable) An act that is stupid.

That stupidity cost me the job interview.

3. Obstinacy.
(Stupidity is a lack of intelligence, understanding, reason, wit, or sense.)
(proove me wrong anybody :D:D:D )

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

i live in norway, and by your standards we have socialised medicine. it works so well here that michael more when making sicko had tu cut those clips out cos the average american just would never belive it :P so there focusfront, spin on it :D

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago
from ingebrigtsen wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I pay bout 20 bucks for a consult with my doctor no matter what my proplem might be and a symbolic sum for any treatment i might need. most less than 30 bucks, even for an mri. and im guaranteed treatment by the gouverments waitinglist guarantee within 6 months even for treatments i might have to que up for and have long waiting lists for. anything serious like cancer would be dealt with forthwith. and i dont have ANY health insurane.
everything is payed by with my taxes and everyone have equal rights. the rich can afford privatized healthcare if they so wish, but have the same rights as john doe from whatsits. paying 36% taxes is nothing compared to what i actually get back. :)
And funny to see that i agree more with bella and yohan than most other indoctrinated people here :D:D:D
Atleast they think for themselves. ;)

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from JOHN ANDERSON wrote 4 years 6 days ago

I hate to see any company especialy firearm wise close shop and move.Especialy state side.Jobs are scarce as hen teeth.Its a damn sad deal.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Fuxcus front what i just said didnt make it YUK YUK
So this cause Im outta time ( like normal)

Yassir Ahrifat (sp) one of the most murderous men of our time used to grab a baby when the cameras were on him.
Phoney low life sum succing bottom feeder that he was.
So this stuff about being concerded your grand baby will be saddled with debt ,. based on hear say and opinion ( yours ) does nothing but Pi$$ me off.

If your concerneded about your grand daughter or son.
Pull you head out sir,.. do the home work,. like myslef and many many others. Then put a shoulder to the wheel like myself and many many others,..if fnot for you for your grand child.

Ya ya I cant spell YUK YUK ,.I spell ok ,. im just a bad typest normally in hury,
My hands take an extra large glove (and thats tight) so my fingers are big and i hit two keys often
Further I have people who do that FOR me if it really counts.Type that is.

If the truth stings there focus front fix it.
But dont whine when the light of truth is shined right smack on that which is not.

On the lighter side hearing of the Marlin Closing ??
I recently bought an xl7.
Having had a life long love afair with Mauser 98s.
I can say for anything that might bite back ,. for me its still the controlled feed 98 in a 9.3x62 or heavier. Never hunted bears ( no clue why but I kinda like em) but once had to stop one that no doubt gonna vision andn the intent to recycle me into bear poop,.. did that with 8x57 in a Mauser 98 with 196 gr bullets.

Hwever my grandfathers vernacular
"Iyam pretty smiling " about buying dat Marlin gun ya .

The lines of the gun are American Classic but due to
the plastic stock more of a weapon to me than a hunting rifle. No big deal however,.. just my perception.

But for a 30-06,.with 3-9 scope rails rings and tax included coming in just under $360 aint bad.

No extnsive shooting yet but after cleaning the bore 3 times and once after every round fired (six rounds total three at 30 and three at 50yds)
Three rounds went waay less than an inch at 50 yds.
If i get what i think Im gonna get at 100 and beyond Im gonna buy anoher one.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman ,. you bella ingebrigtsen jabird amd a few Im sure I missed get it.
Im ghetting prety bussy so will need to stand down fo rn ow but wuill be wacthing Keep up the good fight
on what ever front we can,.. they will try a flanking move.

Ingebrightsen ,.. as one decended (2ond gereneration )here from Norweay
Welcome ,..I ecourage your input on an issue that has seen very powefull and convincing people.
Do everthing legal and not,. to convince "the chickens" ( meaning the American public) That Colonel Sanders who runs a resuraunt known as Kentucky fried chicken
( senonomous with the repiblican party ) is a good guy and we should do what he says.
Ie: just yump into da fryer cause da republican say it da right ting to do ,.Ya yuk yuk
Bull SH !T is my respose to that notion .

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from MLH wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

DEP - crow tastes too good. How about Brussels sprouts? Just kidding, I wouldn't even subject Pelosi to Brussels sprouts ... well, maybe ... though raw unsweetened lemons are more appropriate for that old crow. Apology accepted.

And just think ... yohan went out and got his XL7, which he's obviously been looking for an excuse to buy all along. I wonder if this caused a nationwide rush on New Haven stamped Marlins.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Focusfront, whay yer grandbaby is gonna be paying for is Dubya's War for Halliburton and all the other corporate give aways. The Health insurance reform bill merely means she will be able to afford a doctor. The Reform Bill actually REDUCES the deficit. If however you want to continue being extorted by the HMO's you can still send them gifts of your money.
And thank you Wamhunter (it was you, wasn't it?) for correcting me on the Hutari thing. I could never ever fall in besides such christofascists although I could see myself mannig (womanning) the barricades next to my local LEO's defending my community from such violent twisted people. And No, none of 'em look to swift.
I look at the clips from their website "training video", they are fools. No helmets, no kevlar and they fire standing up like Bruce Willis in a movie, not taking cover, not firing and moving, not covering each other. They wouldn't have held the SWAT team up for 2 minutes deploying like that. I don't claim to be any expert, but the Hutari are very lucky the Feebs took 'em out, because every man jack would be very dead if they had tried to go toe to toe with SWAT. We have cops who read this blog! How about a comment on bloody minded heretics with guns blowing away police funerals? I'd like to read your thoughts.
I remember a certain Iraq vet who called such as the Hutari as "bleached Hadjis", this scenario played out just the way he predicted...

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from jim in nc wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

To DP: Good heavens, David, look what you started!

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from Quahog wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Anyone know why Thompson/Center left gun friendly NH for Taxachusetts ? My theory - It has something to do with "Black Rifles", or lack thereof. 'Cept for DP, all I read about now is "Black Gun" stuff. I must be missing something, don't own one.

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from Andrew Ferraro wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

I'm shocked how many people on these posts argue against profit. With Marlin jobs were not "lost" they were moved. Capital flows to where it's welcome. When I evaluate business locations, naturally I look at taxes, labor cost and regulations- wouldn't any sane person? Would you set up a domestic manufacturing operation in NJ or SC- think about it. The goal of business is to make money and it's the only way we can pay our workers. I live a few miles from the abandoned Penn Reel plant. We all grew up with Penn reels and let me tell you in their later days of they made some real crap. The same can be said for countless American companies that had no competition in the 50s, 60s,70s and never innovated or reduced costs. In the end, they all tried to live of reputations and consumers fled to better products. The fact is private equity firms buy bankrupt companies and try to turn the around- they do this to make a profit and it also saves jobs.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Ralphy !! just about to leave quick check and its You!!
Nice to hear youe still kickin yuk yuk

No taking to you about this Ralph ,. You crack backs for a livng or drill teeth or maybe intenest.Doubt your a plasic surgeon ,. may OBGYN maybe.
What you are not (reading posts of yor)is a busness man
( which dosent make you a bad guy ) it just makes you wear blinders to the real issues.
We already pay enough tax ( have for years ) that heathcare should be "free" for everyone as it is,. but it aint.That alone from a purly economic point of view is criminal.

That togethre with the largest wealth transfer in recorded history taking place durring Boy Georges administration
3 years ago 2 % of the population controled over 20% of the nations wealth and God knows what it is now .
How did we manage that? ,.
The same time honored ole way my friend. Tax the crap out of the middle and lowe classes ,.while cutting breaks up te wazoo to the top 10 % ,Not to metion corperate tax breaks,.. and not for the little / mildde guy , for the giant / a$$ed enterprises.

For sure nothing is free ,.but opaying double suck in my mind to which is what we are presently doing.
and the real issue is not socializm.
It cost goong forward.
When a service or idustry becomes preditory and or such a burden on society that resonable responsible people are curtailed from reasonable life style.
Due to said preditory and or oppressive business practices,.sooner or later the rumblings of collective barganing will begin.

When people must choose between healthcare and food , when peole loose thier homes becuase they got sick and couldnt pay ,.. when one industry or service becomes so pwerful it become opressive .
We as a people are allowed to legislate,
We are there now and have been for years.
The rights ( Rep ) position was there are not enoug Dems to get it done,..Gues what ? there were and when this starts t shake out,. there will be more and more and more ,. that say yup enugh is enough.
We gave em too much rope ,they tried to hog tie us and damn nearly got it done with our rope .

If you get snapped in the PP for a few k,. it means your doing Ok ,.. If I get snappd in the PP ( alomost a certainty ) its ok cause in the longer run and to some extent even the shorter run its gonna cost less.
for everyone. If you are an MD assuming you dont own the hospital ,. tbhe affect on you will be minimal.

Also assuming you are mre or less correct ( I think its more ) 30-40 million additional people will also
BE PAYING IN to the pool or system. Now,.. not being a buisnes of busionss mentality I don expect you or many to perciecve the effect that will have.

When it comes to healtcare ,. yes I do belive,.
to keep our nation strong we should all be afforded healcare. Do I believe we shoud all have the same thing ,. no .
(third generation wealfare resipiants should be put in work camps)
But I believe in competition and the healtcare industry has been the neighborhood bully long enough.
As to my intellegence due to the fact that my father thought I was mildly retarded when young ,.
My school teacher mother had me tested ,.
IQ was 135+ ,. turns out I was just kinda bored with my father at the time.

Calm down Ralh its all gonna be ok.
We tried it the other way and look wht happened,..
See what happnes now,..
Geeze,. now maybe two shots Aquivit
Have a good day ,. shoot someting : )

in

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

This move has nothing to do with Democrats in Connnecticut. That's a fine excuse, but it's absentee private equity that has no sense of community. Sure, they can make 'em cheaper elsewhere, so they move to the lowest cost place. They don't answer to anything but the bottom line; their kids don't play Little league in N Haven, they don't go to the Elks or Lions club on Friday night.

The bottom line, likely? Cerberus, which owns Freedom, which owns Remington, which owns Marlin, lost a bundle on Chrysler and GMAC...and like good God-fearing Republican VC sharks, are hosing the little guy who's been making 336s for 30 years. That's your GOP, boys. Fella runs Cerberus is named Feinberg. Big GOP moneybags.

Mass. is just as "unfriendly" to business as CT and you don't see Ron Coburn packing out of Westfield.

People live in places for a myriad of reasons. Businesses should have more in their reasons than the almighty dollar and I'll bet you a sawbuck "Freedom Group" does not.

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from Gman wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Y'all folks screaming at Bella, Yohan and me are a stone hoot. I tell ya up front, ain't none of ya in my Final Four in the Nobel Economics pool. I know good and well the dynamics of free markets. I also know the dynamics of responsible citizenship, individual and corporate - which extends beyond carryin' a sidearm into Starbucks just becuz ya can! Yeehaa!

To that feller there what quoted that Churchill dude to me, I'm gonna hit ya with a little old Russian saying:

"Capitalism is a system in which man exploits man. Socialism is just the reverse."

Now, I reckon most of y'all are gonna take this as some kinda Commie saying and compleeetly miss the point and say more bad things about me and my poor old gray-haired Democratic mother. Go right ahead, it just makes me laugh and laugh and laugh. What a beautiful breath of fresh air we gots in the good ol' US of A now with a Dem in the White House, and majorities in both houses of Congress! Yeehaa! Makes me want to take my shoes off, put my feet up...and make you smell 'em!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The only "gun control" (aside from actually handling the piece) i support is keeping firearms out of the hands of violent crazies and unsupervised children. Anybody who thinks diagnosed insane sociopaths need access to firearms is likely diagnosably insane and sociopathic.
But a big issue is that so many right wingers feel so little connection to society and so little empathy for their fellow citizens that they don't see that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander too. America's biggest problems will never be solved with guns, because you can't fix the underlying structure of society with a gun, only with a school.
Ignorant people claiming Obama is a "socialist" have no idea what socialism is and claim "wealth redistribution" is on the way, when the "wealth redistribution" Already Happened behind your backs! This is the first generation that has no expectation of doing better that it's parents, because that redistribution has pumped all the money into the corporate class and empoverished the middle class. And the Right wants them to keep it! Plainly the Right has no interest in a strong middle class, but would prefer an ideologically straitjacketed ignorant serving class dependent on corporate handouts and without property or access to education or any other factor that would facilitate social mobility. But that won't be a free society...If you look at any "con" policy and extend it out to it's logical conclusion that is where you wind up. If Freedom and happiness for everybody were their real goal, then health care for all wouyld be considered a Right, as would educational access and housing access. But the Right doesn't want a happy America, the Right wants a Scared America that will swallow it's lies without question. But that is not what the Constitution says...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh and the Canadians I know would never ever trade their health care system for ours. A Canadian I know admitted that sometimes you have to wait for non-essential treatment but that rich Canadians wait the same time as poor ones and the system is fair, which ours ain't at all. Canadians didn't regulate health care itself, they regulated the health insurance companies instead, and that is what makes it fair. And as far as waiting goes, I have known a six month wait to see a primary care practitioner anyway. Even Canadians get health care faster!
Everywhere I look I see that "con" policies interfere in peoples lives and support the corporate interests that hurt families. They are agin health care for everybody, they want to impose their 16th century mentality on the schools by redacting textbooks, they are agin helping people save their homes and they are all for any corporate tax break that comes up. They want to let mining and energy companies exploit public lands and they want to privatize public services that were built with taxpayer funding like highways. They want to sell America to the highest builder and they want to repeal regulation on clean air and water too!
The "cons" will only be happy when they have made all the other citizens of this country profoundly unhappy. Dubya nearly succeeded in this, but then, he could get two elections thrown, but he couldn't throw three!
So given this equation, that either a minority of noisey antisocial protofascists are unhappy or everyone else is unhappy and both parties are never both going to be happy, then I am all for making the so-called "conservatives" (who conserve nothing) the unhappy party, because the "cons" will never be happy. Real happiness comes from contentment, and even after the "cons" have subjugated the rest of us they will not be happy themselves, because dominating others is never a route to happiness (even if sociopaths tend to think it will). You want to be happy? Sharing your cookies always makes more people happy than taking cookies from others and leaving them hungry. It is better to have half a cookie with a friend, then it is to have a whole cookie alone and lonely. Stealing cookies from little hungry kids is easy, if you are an adult, but it won't make you happy and the other adults will think you are a donkeys rear end. Basic kindergarten teaching, but the "cons" fail here. They want all the cookies left, even though they shipped the bake oven overseas.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Ingebritsen, everything I have seen and heard tells me Norway is a loverly place where dour but sensible people live. Compared to places here one could really "pine for the fiords". Thank you for your input, and I would love to see Norway some day in person and have a nice sealmeat roast with you and yours. I have some Norwegian Ancestry somewhere waay back (likely back about the time of Harold Fairhair or Ivar the Boneless) and here in our household we use the ancient runes every day.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Fucus front ,. to day a little busy so this gotta be as brief as I can make it ,.
Just read your last and you deserve attention
you and ( guessing) 30 million others.

Maybe its something in the water where you live.
Or maybe just simple as political braIn washing by your elders ,.but I'll be dipped if I can figure it.

Mr Churchhil was from the UK if your recall
(A country which still has a KING :)
then refereing to the theory of adverse selection.
and or ( possibly ) the theory of unit cost avrageing )
But for now just adverse selection
Insurance comapanies swear by it.
As actuarial tables developed by some very bright people are used in condjunction with other mathmatical maodels to limit exposure to what is calleed down side risk.( adverse selection )

IE; Throw Momma from the train when she gets to old or sick,.or dont let her get on at all ,cause she has pre-existing conditon ,.. bad for the bottoem line.

IN business there is a practice of what is called "laying off risk ",. which is to say ,.
I want this deal ( percieved oportunity ) but I can't afford (all) the enherant risk,. so Im gonna get other people to go with me on this,.. which limits my down side and allows what I consider opportinity for profit ,. or gowth or what ecver it is I see as valueaable even though its not the whole enchalada.
Thus, under certian cercumsances to share the missery equally or nealry so allows a "a deal " which couldn't other wise be done.
AS you may guess these deals sometimes do not see profit as an immediate goal,. rather the creation of an environment by ground work meant to spawn strength and later indirect profit.
It also prevents ( especially in a sweeping social situation ) your Moma ,. Your wife and or your chilluns from being thrown under the train.
Which is how the insurance companies would prefer it to be.

If the United Staes did not enter , WWII. most of Europe would be speaking German now
And so it is with the insurance health care industy.
If/ had we not stepped in.
We will within ( less than ) a decade be AT THE ECOMIC MERCY OF THE HEALTHCARE INUSTRY.

Without this law / change in the grand scheme going foreward .Your major economic fear no matter what your coverage and cost now . Will be healthcare costs.
IE:$5 a gallon gas will seem like they are giving the stuff away comapared to health care cost.

Add to that the insurance / healcare industry has been allowed to opperate for decades unchecked and unregulated which is OUTSIDE and juxtaposed to the public interests.

It creates nothing less than a back door tax by the top 20 % of income and wealth levels to that below it ,.
Simple as that,. and it weakens us as a nation within.

War can be waged in many diffeent ways ,.and if I wasnt convinced to the contrary . The idea that ecomic warfare being waged from within might be an itersting topic of discussion.

All anyone (that can read ) needs to do is compare Healtcare costs in the past 15 years to any economic indicator,.GDP GNP cunsumer price index cost of living and or just plain growth adjusted for inflation.
Its like credit card companies ( which Mr Obama has also begun to deal with ) ,. charge what ever the hell we can get away with & Social responsibility be damned

So,. left unchecked without change sooner or later the question becomes,. can YOU afford insurance?.
It is mathmatical certainty ( exacerbated by the present econimic climate) that going foreward MANY MANY MANY more than now,. will not be able to cary the debt / priemium cost .

I know this how? I know this because its my business to know this, as part of my business is small buiness retirment plans,.
What Iv seen is this.
Busineses are forced first to limit then to eliminate insurance for employees so they can stay in buisness.
Which means the employees have a choice look for another job ( good luck ) ,. go into the market and get it.
No barganinbg power,. which means they (the Inscurance comapies ) are going to RIP YOU A NEW ONE!!Or remain unisured Plesant thought that millions are livng with every day.
Case in point ,. husband 42 .wife 34 two kids 8 & 5.
They now pay in excess of $14,500 for healthcare with a deductable,.. which is 20% + plus of there income and it aint goona get better .
NOW THAT,. IS NOT OK !!!

So,. when it catches up to YOU Mr focusfront ,..or a family memeber .
Will you or they die cause you cant afford the operaton ,. or when they drag you or your wife ( the person you promised to love protect and care for) or the "chilluns" into an ER
Whicg is the point at which hospitals are then obligated to treat you or them .
Will you loose the house ( the place you and yours call home) because YOU COULD NOT AFFORD TO PAY THE PRICE / PREMIUM ?.ot maybe the jus the college fund or the IRA plus tax and a 10% penaly

"Its just a fact that libral policies dont make life better or easier in any of the places theve been tried"
etc etc .

Ya know I wish your were my competition cause i wouild just LOVE LOVE LOVE to compete with you.
Then again,.. better for you your not.
First thng (weakness) i look for for is when someone makes statements of opinion,.. proferd as fact .

Fact is I talk to people in Canada on a regular basis ,..and that is not at all what I hear,..
Hmmm ?? fact your focus front-ness?? or fictional opinion.
Fact is I talk to people in differnt counties on a regular basis and what I hear is.
That we are the laughing stock of many nations on certain issuees.
One for relecting Boy Goerge and the hunter for the second time and two for allowing bought and paid for polititions to lobby for obcene corparate greed. Intent being to limit or kill healhcare reform under the cloak of less government.

To reason with me sir is what I and others call pretty easy ,.if you have the facts or can back up what you say.
But if you call reason,.. the enforcement of opinion based on nothing niore than opinion and or the differnce of opinion than you are corect sir
You cant reason with me
As you do not possess the criteria,.
to reason with me and those similarly disposed .

And lastly Oabma dosent want your guns. What he wants for the first tiems since Clinton is to keep you healthy enough to afford the ammunition and cercuimstance to go shoot your guns.
And so there is no mistake as a concervative liberal
I all all the guns I need last week ,..
But last week I bought anoter one,
Brefly felt guilty as always ,.. but hey
I like guns : )

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Cool, Yohan. I just helped my old buddie buy a nice Marlin 30-30 lever gun at a gun show. Nice wood & checkering, nice bright bore too. We tried it out on my range when we brought it home and it was sweet, made that steel plate ring nice...
Marlin began in Conneticut, because that was the "American Ruhr" at the time, the birthplace of industrial technologies where canal and river systems coupled early industrial freight hauling with waterpower driven machinery. As access to a river is no longer neccesary for firearms manufacture, Marlin has no real need to be in Conn, but hasn't Marlin developed ties to the community in North Haven in the century and some Marlin has been there? Last time I checked Marlin Manufactured sporting long arms and Conneticuts gun laws unlikely hinder sales that much. Besides isn't that Lieberman's country, and he is scarcely any sort of liberal. It ain't as if Marlin made saturday night specials. No this is about a republican CEO who doesn't understand the use of social capitol and put's the dollar over all, then blames somebody else for the repercussions of the deal.
As far as my earlier comments about the Right and violent tendancies I got one more word. HATARI.
Proves my point, I'm glad they moved on these false christians before they started a bloodbath in the name of Christ.
If you are really a "christian" your Jesus stated you are to love your enemies, turn the other cheek and render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's. Anybody who claims to be a "christian" and advocates killing LEO's is no christian! Jesus did not wear camo!

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from Scott in Ohio wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

i certainly don't agree with everything, but regarding Yohan's comment:

"Wanna talk money? Talk about what that war costs.
And lets not forget how mcuh Boy George tapped the SS fund,.. and let us not forget when Clinton left we had a balanced budget. I dont care how many interns he boinked, we had a balanced budget"

- He's right on the money.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

David, you don't think the Union had anything to do with it like what happened to Colt?

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Marlin was owned by a Republican, and a Republican made the decision to move, regardless of whatever blame is being ladled onto the center from the Right. Is Marlin going to move their employees? Not bloody likely, they will be sacrificed to the profit margin. At the new location, new contracts will be made with new workers and if there was a union before, you can bet there ain't no room for workers rights now. Blame the Dems again for another Republican decision. When Marlin began Conn was a republican state, then the Repugs Were the Left and the Dems were the Right! Everybody dosi-dos then the left gets blamed. You "cons" want a one party state run for the benefit of your would be wealthy masters, but that ain't America.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

A big problem is that making a profit has come to trump social responsibility. A big complaint I hear from the Right is that "We can't afford to give everybody health care"...But giving was never on the plate anyway, somebody pays no matter what. What I see as "cons" really objecting to is the notion that people unlike themselves might be entitled to the same access to various opportunities they themselves have taken for granted for years. They hear the phrase "representative government" and think that because that black guy in office doesn't resemble them that he doesn't represent them. The representation misinterpeted becomes more important than the democracy. Just because the founding fathers were (mostly) white (there was at least one Jew),male and landowning (women couldn't neccesarilly own anything at the time, being considered not quite human back then) that in our modern day similar standards should still apply. But, this particular mixed breed says No. America is no longer composed primarally of English descended people, and there is no reason why being English should carry any premium over being Polish, Mongolian, Chocktaw or Zulu. I occasionally chuckle at imagining the brawl that would occur if my many and varied ancestors had to sit in the same Theater together. The English, Irish, Welsh and Norwegians all were at odds at various times in the past, and the Prussians, Passamaquoddy and Romany only confuse the issue more. So our present leader represents me (and all those other partly brown people) just fine! If there were some "rule of precident" and "I was here first" meant anything worthwhile, then one would have to recognize that the Native Americans were here first and that the first building usually erected in any settlers community was not a church but a Tavern! Drinking alcohol was far more important to the colonists and pioneers than going to whatever church you might name! Our great nation was founded by people who believed firmly in drinking prodigiously and a state of inebriation was far more common than an odor of sanctity! Christianity shmistrianity, there may have been a lot of people who claimed they were motivated by supposedly "christian " principles but if you read the social context they were all drunks too! The first rebellion was about Whiskey, the triangle trade was 1/3 rum and our National Anthem is filked from a drinking song ("To Anacreon in Heaven", look it up!).
After All Jesus wouldn't have turned water into wine if he didn't like wine better and without beer, the English Colonies would never have even happened (several expeditions to America turned back because they ran out of beer!).
So don't tell me that White Christians deserve to be the be-all and end all model for American culture because the notions that view is based on are so alien to the way things really were it ain't funny. America was founded by drunken people and these days quite a few people should just take a stiff drink and settle down a bit, After all, I know that for my own part, I'd rather have a bottle in front-a-me than....(dah dum dum)

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Oh and the Democrats are not the Left and never were. They continue to be the Center. The Greens are the Left. Go Green! Just because the Dems are left of the Right doesn't make them the Left. There are political parties well left of the Dems. The last elections proved it, The Dems are smack dab in the middle, don't agree? go back to middleschool geometry class!

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Mission accomplisehd smokle the little weasel out of his hole see what he's got,.

To bad liitle man
Sam ole same ole,..accusation,. retribution and recrimination ,.and if you read your own stuff your a real champ when it comes to contradicting your self,
( The Doc was here last night ,.
he says it the booze:)
Youirs is the stuff of which fools racists are made.

Which would also cost you the farm ( ot the trailer) if it came to calling yor bluff like I did before
Involving a wager of significant coin of the realm. Say 10 or 20 or 40 K ,or hell make it 100 o ra mil.
B s walks and money talk little man.
But that would only shut you up.
Whch was not the goal last day or two ,.. need more poetic booze soaked blather such that the people curious as to your location education emplyment and substance abuse programs have something more to go on.

Since you probabaly scrap book this stuff ( and je^K Off ) at night to it.
I never faught a big nasty snake in my life ,but shot a few rattlers,. which remind me of you.
Those who knew where I was going explained how to kill big nasty snakes just in case one grabbed me and I couldnt shoot it.
You aint stupid ,littel man . you just aint smart,.
It a rule ,.little dogs dont kick big dogs asses yuk yuk .

ingebrigtsen is right on the money

I have a framed plack in my office which says
"Never argue with idiots ,. they will bring you down to their level then beat with experiance."
Very true ,.
So thanks again ,.. do believe its getting narrowed down.

and by the by ,.. I know good men from Texas and other states too ,.and you are not among their number.

OK off to a Scandnavian breakfast / brunch ,.with a German woman. who could probabaly kick your A$$
yuk yuk
Gotta watch the weight but every now and then on Sunday I let-her snap,
One shot of Aquavit,
Boiled fish,. potataoes sauges eggs and lefse, lingun berry jam , sourdough muffins and about a quart of Tea
Prior to which Im goona go to a place of worship and thank God for healtcare reform in the US.
I'll even say one for you ,. cause people don't come into the world as sour and F ed up as you.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Gman you are on the money, typical of republican corporate thinking, move to a place where you can pay people less and then Blame "regulation" or "liberals". All I know is that some Conneticut gunsmiths are gonna get reamed by a Republican, who will then blame the Democrats.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

The Republican Right has become the party of Racist, sexist homophobic people who would rather hold on to their hatred and prejudice more over health care, or security in their jobs, housing and savings.
When I look at the insults Tea Baggers scream at Pols they don't like they are all about racism, sexism or homophobia, all the attacks are "ad hominum" and none have any substance. When I look at legislation the tea baggers object to I see that all the things they are objections to are attempts to fix the messes that the cons themselves made. The "cons" crashed the economy themselves by stripping the country of manufacturing and substituting economic voodoo and open warfare for economic goals. The "Health Extortion" companies have trashed access for Americans to health care, but the Tea Baggers object to regulation of health insurers...
In anything that might benefit the average person the tea baggers and the "cons" are against it and screaming apoplexy about it.
Then there is "gun control". It is the Right that usually resorts to violence in America. We haven't had armed leftists in rebellion since the SLA. Leftists in America chain themselves to things, right wingers shoot people. People like MLK. Gay people. Black people. The problem is that the Right is Authoritarian at it's roots, and authoritarians tend to try to quell what they don't like with force. Humanitarians talk things out, authoritarians will try to beat you up to change your mind, because their arguments aren't about fairness, they are about What the Right Wants and what others want rarely counts with them because compromise ain't in the book. If the Rightists were more likely to use their arms for defense and hunting, rather than threatening people with them then "gun control" wouldn't be an issue. We could come to an accord about preventing access to guns for the insane and the violent without rancor. But the irrationality and undercurrent of violence in the metaphorical fabric of the Right suggests that the real reason the Right objects to "gun control" is because the Right is full of irrationally hateful violent people who know dang well that they themselves would be considered violent nuts by any sort of firearms regulatory agency.
At any rate, with the things written by "cons" about liberals convince me that you cons all want to be Zeks in a one party state, so you can all goosestep into a brave new all white Calvinist state where you can lovingly serve your corporate masters and live humbly in the hovels they leave you till you die of the industrial diseases they will refuse to consider coverable by health insurance.

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from yohan wrote 4 years 3 weeks ago

Well short crotch been busy
Busy helping to get the health care package through.
Now a bunch of jerk water crackers like you.
Too dumb and or blind to see the woods for the trees who don't earn enough to change thier minds.
Will get insurance they could never other wise aford
all the while acting like there gona spin aroud and fall dead at the very thought.

But thats gonna be way cheaper for all of us than the way it was.

Your B S incarnate dude .. you know it, I know it, and any one who's listened to your thinly veiled attempts at seeming sobriety knows it too.
Just crawl back into the bottle ,.its OK you can sober up next week. When the weather is better or the wind blows different ,. or your teeny tiney boots dry out from pi$$ing youself
Ever notice little man I spel jut bad enough to cause you hives yuk yuk !

By 4 now ,...

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