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Chad Love: The Finest "Gun Poodle" Around

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April 09, 2010

Chad Love: The Finest "Gun Poodle" Around

By Chad Love

I was perusing the online edition of the Retriever Field Trail News the other day when I came across this remarkable photograph of a poodle retrieving a duck at the Master National hunt test this past October.

The caption reads "Bibelot's Tolka Hands Up, MH, is the first poodle to qualify at the AKC Master National Retriever Club Trial. "Ten" is owned by Mia Dibenedetto and Jack Combs, handled by Jack Combs."


A poodle. At the master national. A big, white, foo-foo looking poodle with a shaved coat and one of those pom-pom looking tails. My first thought was "Is Paris Hilton into hunt tests?" My second thought was "wait, hold on a second here...Mia Dibenedetto? Is that some kind of alias? Has our gun dog blogger David DiBenedetto been secretly training poodles? Where, exactly, is Pritchard?"

So what gives, David? Your readers demand an explanation...

Joking aside, as the owner of a minority breed myself, congratulations to Ten and her owners for hanging with the black dogs. The Master National isn’t just any old hunt test. It's the world series of the hunt test world and any the dog that qualifies for it has risen to the top of the heap. Indeed, for any dog to earn a master hunter title is a huge accomplishment, one the vast majority of gundogs out there couldn't hope to pass.

This is encouraging information, because when you want a Lab and your wife insists on a poodle, all hope is not lost.

Comments (51)

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from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Remarkable form! And that toe nail polish, lovely shade...

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from gman3186 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

whatever gets the job done doesnt always have to look the best

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from ejunk wrote 4 years 1 week ago

not interested in owning one myself, but standard poodles are traditionally a retrieving breed.

yrs-
Evan!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Well the Poodle was originally a water/gun dog before people downgraded it to house/lap dog. Not that I'm a big Poodle fan, I actually don't care for them too much. But it is regarded to be the second smartest dog to the Border Collie, so maybe their not that bad of a dog. They just don't look as "manly" as a Lab.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from -Bob wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Finally…a little recognition!

We've hunted over Standard Poodles (not those nasty, yappy little squeak toys) for 25 years now. They are nothing short of remarkable; smart, sturdy and willing to dive into whatever brush tangle you choose. We really need to get past the whole chi-chi foo-foo thing…think of them as big, curly-coated retrievers who drink out of the toilet just like everyone else. -Bob

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Standard poodles are good dogs. If I remember right some were also used to hunt bear. I understand the "traditional" cut but wish they wouldn't do that. At least there isn't a bow on her head.

I'd still opt for the compromise - a pudelpointer.

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from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

or the Labrodoodle

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from seadog wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Poodles are very smart. I know they're great dogs and their ancestors were hunting dogs but this still looks all wrong. LMAO Props to the poodle and his trainers, anyway--it really isn't fair to judge the working dog on his fru-fru pretty looks.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

It really is unfortunate that poodles have taken on the reputation they have. As already noted here, they are remarkably smart and were bred to be water dogs. I've always wondered how many hunters out there were still hunting over them.

From a practical standpoint though, I would hate to have to get burrs out of that coat and a big bright-white poodle would be hard to hide in a duck blind...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I like to see any dog perform well, especially a not-normal type breed for the sport.

Gives me hope for my purebred beagle/corgi/terrier/dachshund.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

but they do have black and chocolate coat colors as well

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Or have you seen where owners die the white coats multi-colors... just get a white one and paint him camouflage.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

It is nothing more or less than evidence of how badly the AKC has gotten off track.

They allowed the Field Trial to become degenerate and the Field Trial Breed is not what it used to be.

So a political faction drew up a set of rules to try to perpetuate the old breed and allow non-competitive dogs and generate additional revenue for the AKC.

Enter these ridiculous foo foo dogs.

At the last Hunt Test I attended, 99% of the "Labradors" were of the new field trial breeding for the purpose of cheating.

Sure am glad I got one from old bloodlines.

The irony was that the other dogs needed to "Hunt" and he ran directly to the birds at full speed.

Pinpoint marks while everybody else searched at least two acres.

In breeding out size and aggression, along with it went the old intelligence.

It is sad to say that Labradors can no longer be assumed intelligent.

On top of that, it was clear that the new breed has a significant amount of pointer in them.

Not that pointers are bad, but those were mutts!

There were other breeds as well, none of which were reminiscent of anything I saw in the Old Days.

I can't imagine Fifi slogging through the marsh for ten feet, much less fighting off the animals that reside therein.

The Hunt Test and the Field Trial have encouraged the emergence an exodus from AKC, to newly-emerging organizations.

The future is clear..

It is over for the AKC for retrievers.

Bird dogs as well.

All the best pointers and setters have gone to other organizations in this area.

-3 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Correction: fifth sentence from end...

The Hunt Test and Field Trial...delete "the emergence".

People have forgotten that the AKC is just a business and no kind of an authority.

Their re-definition of the breed standard for a taller and underweight dog put the breeders of English dogs out of business, and that is where the standardized breed came from in the first place.

The Field Trial regulations caused the extinction of the old breed as well.

AKC is nothing more or less than a political organization with today's breed of irresponsible managers churning their way to "improved" resumes by whatever means.

I attempted to communicate with them once to clarify an issue, and it was clear that the meaning and intent of the rules had long-ago faded into the misty past.

To Hell with 'em!!!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 1 week ago

That's just wrong, no matter what!~

Dear Lord, forgive them and be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea...

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I guess I know what I am going to do with my girlfriends new golden doodle puppy . I have been wanting a new bird dog and really been thinking of training him to hunt ,now his fate is sealed . How to deal with the girlfriends reaction to this news is the tricky part .

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from chadlove wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Bob, from one kinky-haired dog fan to another, I'd hunt over your poodles any day and I wouldn't make a single snide remark. I've heard way too much "where do your chessies get their hair done?" to make fun of any dog...

I've never been fortunate enough to actually hunt over or watch a standard poodle at a trial or hunt test, but I've always wanted to. I've read a lot of good things about them.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Koldkut wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Thisgives me faith that a pound puppy poddle mix would make a fine addition to the family and still be huntable.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 1 week ago

what will the neighbors say when they see that pic?! this is just not right. very disturbing!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from J4huntfish wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Im in florida right now for vacation and you see all these lap dogs on the beach. and i said to my dad are these people tring to chum for sharks

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Re: Blackdawgs

"It is nothing more or less than evidence of how badly the AKC has gotten off track.
They allowed the Field Trial to become degenerate and the Field Trial Breed is not what it used to be."

"I can't imagine Fifi slogging through the marsh for ten feet, much less fighting off the animals that reside therein."

But this isn't an example of the AKC allowing mutts in competition, or even say, a toy breed. The Standard Poodle IS a hunting dog! It was breed to be a hunting dog! Just because it has fallen out of favor does not negate what it is.

Not that a single dog entered in competition is an indicator of anything, butI would say that this is the AKC getting back to its roots!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

That just goes to show what happens when you fire from the hip.

I go all the way back to 1948 with Labradors.

None of the Gun Dog books from that era mention any kind of poodle.

And only Irish Water Spaniels from that genre.

The poodles I saw at hunt tests just didn't have it.

They were weak and slow and entirely unimpressive otherwise.

They didn't have any of the instincts.

There is no way that one can swim with a Labrador.

The AKC has just gone South along with certain other institutions of modern times, like the government and the presidency.

Go check the AKC records, and you will see that no poodle has never entered a National Championship, much less won.

In fact you can't even find a Golden in recent decades.

My records indicate that the AKC was only something to be corrupted, going back to 1941.

That year, Tar of Arden won the National Championship under the existing AKC rules, while a local club on Long Island put on one event, claiming it to be the National Championship.

Nobody with a competitive dog even went there.

They managed to get history re-written.

But I have in my profile a photo of Tar of Arden posing with the Field and Stream Trophy for the best retriever in the country.

This trophy was awarded to the National Champion.

Just to prove a point, Paul Bakewell III next showed up at the "National Championship" with a young relative of Tar's and won it two years in a row.

Then he went off to WWII for two years and came back and won it again with a 7-year-old shed to have the first (of two ever) 3-time National Champion, and the only one for 50 years.

All competitive Labradors today are descended from Tar and Shed.

To imagine a poodle competing with that guy, or many of his descendents (including my Bill), is to reside in fantasy land.

Shed was a Show Champion as well, and the first US Dual Champion.

He was the very definition of the best of the breed.

TODAY HE WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED FROM AKC DOG SHOWS BECAUSE HE'S MUCH BIGGER THAN WHAT THEY CALL A LABRADOR RETRIEVER.

I have always hunted with the best dogs and the best shotguns.

The dogs have been descendents of Tar and Shed, and the shotguns are Parkers, Elsies, and now Benellis.

I will continue to do so.

http://duckcallsgoosecalls

See the About Us page for more info.

Woofie should be the perfect show dog.

Under current AKC rules, he is 3" too short and 30 lbs too big.

But I must say, that in this magazine, the fish photos and the deer and Elk photos are the best ever.

I invite anyone to come out to a guided Mallard hunt (at your expense) and see what Real Retrievers look like.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

That is:

http://duckcallsgoosecalls.com/

not an ad, I don't care if I sell 'em or not.

I just make the best calls, just to do it.

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from huskerguy wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I guess you have to look at it this way. It's like a good lookin woman that you wouldn't picture carrying a gun, but can hang with the guys with no problem doin it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shotgunlou wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I took my pitbull quail hunting one day just to get her out and get some excercise and within about 5 minutes she pointed her first quail. I couldnt figure out why I couldnt get her to get her nose out of the tumble weeds until I walked up to her and 3 quail exploded out of it.
I got lucky and quickly recovered from my heart attack in time to shoot a double. She helped me get my first limit of quail.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Having stated The Case, along with submitting facts, and seeing no response from Real Retriever people, I will now abandon this inanity.

I will only further state that I have seen a Siamese Cat retrieve.

And a Canned Hunt Owner recounted retrieving tales of a certain Jack Russel retriever of pheasants which got eaten by a Cougar.

I do not see how making a mockery of Retrieving is going to advance the cause of this magazine.

Besides, I have no idea what I'm going to do with the "Points" I already have.

So I will reserve further comment.

The Last Days of "Field and Stream" are certainly at hand.

But I love the photos of the Big Game Animals and the Fish.

I don't see how anybody could find The Fishh more objectionable than this article.

Guess I gotta stick around to see who takes over this magazine...

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Blackdawgz,
As a grouse hunter, firing from the hip is what I do best.

I had a bit of trouble following your somewhat rambling post, but here is my rebuttal:

1)The AKC's own breed history describes the origins of the poodle as a water retriever. http://www.akc.org/breeds/poodle/history.cfm

As far as the poodles you have seen being weak and unimpressive; I have no reason to doubt your observation. It is a breed rarely used in competition anymore, and I would imagine at present, it's a somewhat weak talent pool. They don't benefit from the vast network of clubs developing talent like most of the other hunting breeds do.

Finally, I'm not sure I understand the point of the bulk of your post. Is it that Labradors are a superior breed for waterfowl hunting than all other breeds, and that it is insulting to allow any other breeds to compete?

If so, I think you are making a stupid argument.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mr. Creosote wrote 4 years 1 week ago

OK, Blackdawgz, I'll bite...

So you say the fact that a standard poodle earned a trip to the master national is evidence of...what, exactly?

I'm just not getting what you're trying to say. I'm not even sure you are. Seriously, what color is the sky in your world? Are you stoned when you write this s#*t or do you just make it up as you go along?

I read your rambling, incoherent posts claiming that the dogs at every hunt test and every field trial you attend are simply incompetent compared to...wait for it...yours!

Really? So the last hunt test you attended 99 percent of the dogs out there were bumbling around hunting on their marks while (of course) yours were nailing theirs at full speed? Would you care to elaborate on what club put on that hunt test? I assume none of those other dogs got their passes but yours did with flying colors, right? If it was a recent test we could easily verify your claims on Entry Express, right?

First you rip the AKC, field trials, hunt tests, modern labs and pretty much every other dog in the world except...wait for it...yours!

In fact, pretty much every single dog-related post you make is some kind of insult to every other dog out there except...wait for it...yours!

And then you turn around and use the poodles' lack of field trial success and/or national championships as evidence they suck? Huh? Are you serious?

Have any of your dogs earned a master hunter title? Have any of your dogs ever qualified for the master national?

If not, my suggestion to you would be to simply shut the hell up and stop criticizing someone whose dog has.

There are any number of historical hunting breeds out there that have been largely ruined as a result of selectively breeding for the show and pet trades, but for every one of those breeds there's a small and dedicated group of hunters and dog lovers who are trying to bring those breeds back to what they once were, whether it's red setters or field cockers or yes, standard poodles.

As a gundog owner, trainer and a lover of gundog history, I have a tremendous amount of respect for those people. And instead of being a total jackass and insulting them, maybe you should be thanking them for trying to save some vestige of the breeds they love.

After all, isn't that what you're always griping about with those "pointer-infused" modern labs? Maybe you should be getting some tips from the poodle guys...

And I went to your website. No offense, but your dogs resemble my avatar. No wonder you don't like field trials.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I second Blackdawgz comments about Labradors. I know nothing about the other breeds by choice. You want to see a retrieving exposition, come on out during snow goose season and our black dogs will show you how it's supposed to be done! LOL

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from C wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I have a poodle. He is smart, fast, acrobatic, tireless, diligent, relentless, lives to retrieve things and to eat chicken. Why would he not be a great bird-retriever? OK, your labs weigh more and are stronger. When you want to retrieve an ostrich, use a lab, but for any bird that weighs under 25 lbs, the poodle will do a better job.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

This argument reminds me of hunters that argue that all shotgun production should have stopped with the development of the 12 gauge Remington 870 since it can "do it all".

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from shadbuster wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I might consider getting a standard poodle as my next gun dog, if they are as good and intelligent as some say they would certainly be a interesting breed to train, and it would be nice to see the other guys reactions when you step out of your vehicle with a poodle in tow! If only I didn't love German shorthairs so much, too bad you can only own a handful of dogs in your lifetime.

"And I went to your website. No offense, but your dogs resemble my avatar. No wonder you don't like field trials."

Don't sale those fat labs short, I don't know how they perform in field trials but I owned one and they can retrieve all day long and all that blubber keeps them warm and lets them ride high in the water! But seriously they perform well in the field and in my experience are not as hyper as the skinnier type of lab.

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from Robert Ewing wrote 4 years 1 week ago

As a kid I taught our poodle to bite my older brother if only I knew what I could have done with that dog.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Well...

Glad I couls strike a nerve.

There are two of us out here, anyway.

A rambling post answered by a rambling post.

You have to know the history of the thing.

"Retrievers" are all descended from the Lesser Newfoundland.

When the Second Earl of Malmesbury imported them to England and shared them with his brother, the Duke of Buccleuch, in Scotland.

They would compete with each other taking turns as host.

Peter of Faskally won the first English Retriever Trial.

1915, I believe.

There was not a Poodle in attendance.

Nor at any other meet ever.

When Averill Harriman imported them to the United states for the purpose of competition and won it in 1935, there had never been a Poodle in competition.

And there hasn't been

The Hunt Test is a Farce and a social dance.

The Best Dawg is decided at the Field Trial.

No poodle has ever won a Field Trial in this country.

As for allegations of drug abuse, I should sue.

If you cannot understand my writing, that speaks for itself.

It is perfectly logical and concise (to me).

If your span of attention cannot handle a page, that is your problem.

I don't know how I can find presenting the Poodle as representative of American retrievers to be offensive.

I always enjoyed "Mad" magazine.

And nobody took it seriously, either.

In parting (this time for good), I already reminded everyone that the AKC is a business.

Businesses are here to maximize their profits.

If you don't understand what this means, you have never been in management.

They invented the Hunt Tests to double their profits.

The photo of the Poodle is to be taken the same way as the cute little girl doing a "Grip and Grin" with a small panfish.

Her heart is in the right place, but it is not to be taken the same way as the monster moose taken in Alaska last year.

I am particularly happy with my boys because of their breed history.

Tar and Shed were bred on Harriman's estate, Arden.

30,000 acres and a small castle in upstate New York.

He was heir to the Union Pacific and owned an international bank.

His business partners were George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush.

They financed the construction of the Nazi concentration camps.

They were convicted of consorting with the enemy and were never punished.

That's political clout.

Harriman went on to become governor of New York, Special Ambassador, and was Chief negotiator at the Paris Peace Talks.

You know about the Bushes.

Harriman had the clout to buy the best dogs or anything else.

The only dog that could match their pedigree in US history was N-Word of Barrington, 1938 NFC.

Bakewell was a sportsman.

His father and Grandfather were prominent patent attorneys during the industrial revolution and his wife's great Uncle was JP Morgan.

He got Tar and Shed from Harriman.

He had the social contacts to do so.

There was not a poodle on the radar screen.

It's laughable.

To even suggest such a thing would get you chased off to the end of the planet.

Bill Rook, who owned Bill and Woofie's kennel, was in the Army during WWII with Cotton Pershall as a dog trainer.

Pershall trained all the best dogs in the Chicago area, including Bakewell's.

Bigstone was a Pershall breeding project.

The First for studs there were Little Pierre of Deer Creek (Tar's Hall of Famer son), and Hall-of-Famers Shed of Arden, Marvadel Black Gum, and Cork of Oakwood Lane.

To mention "Poodle" in the same breath is to invite social ostracism forever".

All dogs bred back in were their descendents.

Resulting in an abnormally high percentage of Hall of Famers in my boys' pedigrees, increasing the probability that they would have the qualities of their ancestors.

It worked!

Just because I knew what to look for.

Like Harriman and Bakewell, I sought the best bloodlines.

I had been looking at all breeds.

I actually shopped for and compared Poodles, Goldens, NSDTRs, Chesapeakes.

Without bias.

But, in light of the fact that 95% of National Field Champions had been Black Labradors, one Brown that had not been bred for it, the rest yellows and Goldens, it came down to a choice between the Golden Retriever and the Labrador.

Some Swamp Collies are excellent.

Bakewell was the first competitor to train his own dog.

He won the NFC two years in a row with RIP.

The next season, RIP got killed in an accident, but it turned out that Tar was tied with him for first place.

Here is a girl who had been busy producing litters that were not registered with the AKC, so was virtually untrained, and the won the National Championship under the points system, which was in effect at the time, under AKC rules.

The AKC, submitting to political pressures, proclaimed someone else to be National Champion.

Someone who was not even in the points race, and was never considered to be champion material.

At that point, the AKC's credibility was at zero.

Then, to re-write the rules for competition and judge at the most simplified level, and then arbitrarily rewrite a breed description that had stood for over 7 decades, is to change the breed according to the AKC.

Understandably, many people departed.

People expect the AKC to behave honorably as an American institution.

It is not.

It is a get-down, shady business whose employees have an ever-shortening list of things they won't do.

For you to be unable to follow simple logic and resort to a libelous remark makes you

UNfit for Conversation.

Unworthy of Refutation.

But here's some info to educate readers on a fine Sunday morning.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 1 week ago

my lab has never competed but i would feel comfortable putting him against any of your champs regardless of bloodlines. he does everything he needs to and then some. he is very fast and one hell of a jumper. as far as a poodle goes, he'd just chew on it for a while and spit it out. i'll stick to labs, thanks.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

jamesti ;

Well said.

Picking from a known bloodline only increases the probability of getting one like yours.

A well-known authority has stated that "A grocery boy in Idaho may own a dog that would befit a Shooting Earl."

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

But I must add.

My post is my own opinion.

It is a sharing of information, and I have done my research.

If a dog can be written into the National Field Championship, anything is possible at the local level.

But there's more...

I can think of at least three contributors who have no problem reading, digesting, and analyzing my stuff.

I imply a lot and leave a lot to be tied in at the end; more mature and more accomplished readers like this.

They enjoy tying together the implications.

I can think of at least three who can say, "Well, he left this out and he left that out, and there are shade differences in word meaning.

But they have never once asked me to cut it short so they can understand it.

Everybody has a right to accept it or not, or believe it or not.

But a personal attack is unwarranted.

Anybody who reads something,knowing they won't like it and explodes is mentally ill.

It is like when the gay rangers bugged my workshop and driveway.

I used to end my speeches with, "If you don't like it, why do you listen?"

You would have to be mentally ill to subject yourself to something that causes you to lose it.

There are people here who are high-testosterone folk who occasionally go off.

Hunters usually have a lot of machisimo.

It is inevitable that they lock horns occasionally.

But they are also otherwise very logical and reasonable.

There are centuries of experience here.

Some of these guys are experts at what they do, and possess admirable bodies of knowledge.

The facts I have presented here are history and are undeniable.

Tar of Arden went on to become the first Labrador in the Hall of Fame.

She is the Breed Matriarch.

The other dog was forgotten by all except the AKC records.

There's more, but I can tell you're getting drowsy.

But the good news is that I think I have found some birds, and we'll be going to Goldendale in the next week or two to make a video.

I'll post a link.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 4 years 1 week ago

look forward to it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Well Blackdawgs,
If it's possible to win an argument simply by posting page after page of semi-legible ramblings, you've given it one he11 of a try...

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I heard a rumour about a guy who trained a pack of poodles to pull a sleigh and then completed the Idatrod in Alaska. Probably not true, but IF it is, that is spunky!

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 4 years 1 week ago

It IS true! http://home.gci.net/~poodlesleddog/

This just made my day!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Semi-legible?

Do you know what "legible" means?

This explains everything.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I feel almost ashamad to have to point this out, but...

Without a working vocabulary, you have no hope of understanding.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

You have earned a ripping of negative comments; how smart would I be to appear negative because of the comments of someone of little-to-no understanding?

Someone who does not understand what I said in the first place?

The point is that the AKC lost credibility early on.

Anybody who awaits their next "information release" or questionable business maneuver with bated breath knows less than I know.

AKC records reveal little truth.

And certainly less than complete information.

Here the trials are far from fair.

And the misbehavior of club members is appalling.

Everywhere, breeder fraud is a problem.

I guess I was naive to not expect a show of human frailties.

But I must admit that I have never been treated worse in my life, at the hands of prominent individuals (actually scumbag cowboys) who were trying to keep out outsiders.

A trainer involved in their club sicced two of his client's Chesapeakes on Bill and Woofie.

Somebody brought a girl in heat to the event and Bill had an Altered State, but it was "OK."

I was severely heckled on my way to the line.

And while I was standing at the line while awaiting the birds.

A prominent club member stood and shouted like a catcher harasses a batter.

A spectator actually sent Bill when he was supposed to "honor."

A spectator actually sent Bill when he was supposed to "honor."

A spectator actually sent Bill when he was supposed to "honor."

A prominent club member.

The judges looked the other way because they were politically afraid.

One of the judges was in open admiration of Bill after his exceptional performance.

This was enough for me, as the judge is a recognized authority.

And Bill ran the event entirely unpracticed.

This is more than a sore subject with me.

I am seeing the same kind of heckling here, from someone who doesn't even have a brain.

I have found some birds.

I am going to get some video with world-class bird dogs and my boys.

As far as I an concerned, Anyone is welcome to attend.

Bring your dawg and some birds.

Don't be a wise-ass.

My training partner is a zero-tolerance field trial judge.

He is a highly aggressive and competitive and intelligent person.

One of his dawgz is a former National Number Three.

The rest are in training for competition at National Field TRials.

I must admit that his dawgz are what Labradors used to be.

I didn't know pointers and setters could be so intelligent.

But he volunteered that Bill and Woofie were better markers.

Then he showed me his Pointer get the scent of a pheasant and point at 75 yards with only a light breeze.

I have only tried Bill out to 50 yards, but he did it.

He remembers marks from the previous year.

This is not an invitation for more idiocy.

Although I fully expect it.

Bill has not retrieved in over a year, due to injuries.

But I don't imagine that will affect his performance.

After all, he played the lead role in the "training".

I'll post videos.

I do not think Field and Stream should be a travesty.

The comic-book atmosphere and ignorance in some areas need to be cleaned up.

It attracts and fosters the presence of unintelligent people who are out for an internet romp

To sign on to a blog and try to defend something indefensible, make libelous remarks, and then reveal a total lack of vocabulary, all the while campaigning against literacy, appears to be the actions of a pure troublemaker.

There is nothing "funny" about any of this.

A certain person is trying to get some attention.

I now abandon this fruitless conversation.

But thank you for giving me the opportunity to relate the Sordid Tale of the Hunt Test.

Maybe I created the opportunity.

Really?

I thought he was Old...

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from Mr. Creosote wrote 4 years 1 week ago

And the weird, baffling and off-topic stream-of-consciousness continues...

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from uplander12 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Hear ye, hear ye. The King of the Labradors has decreed that all other dogs, being unworthy to even be called dogs, shall forever be eradicated.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

"You have earned a ripping of negative comments; how smart would I be to appear negative because of the comments of someone of little-to-no understanding?
Someone who does not understand what I said in the first place?"

Well, you got two things right. I have no idea what you "said in the first place", and semi-legible was the wrong adjective. How about semi-coherent.

I also give you credit for admitting you have a personal ax to grind with the AKC. It gives a lot of context to the bulk of your posts.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

But I would expect you to not understand.

I see precious little evidence that you have followed any of this beyond "The."

Your poor vocabulary and illogical mindset will prevent any attempt at "understanding" beyond a one-liner.

You have a Neanderthal mind.

You want me to abbreviate my answers so you will have something you imagine yourself to understand and issue a primitive rubber-stamp rebuttal.

None of this is personal to me.

Logical argument is the presentation of facts to support a conjecture.

Your emotional response showed that you have difficulty reading and that your vocabulary and reading comprehension are those of the average fifth grader.

Your only defense has been to quote a business organization of fraudsters regarding an inferior breed for the purpose of getting more entry fee money.

Go to a Field Trial.

See any poodles?

Not one.

Why not?

Because they are not even marginally competitive! The Hunt Test is an opportunity to give the owners of lesser dogs an opportunity to pay entry fees.

I am positively ashamed of having taken Bill to such an event.

But I don't even know anybody who has a Labrador, and I wanted to see how he was doing.

Without any practice whatsoever.

As a recurrence of an Old World Champion, he should have blown them away and he did.

Retriever Clubs are a circle-jerk.

If you are not invested in their club and dogs and trainers, then you are as welcome as a whore in church.

I'm glad we got run off.

We may reappear in the Puget Sound area.

I don't know.

He looked like Hank Aaron at a high-school game.

I'll have to think about it.

Give it up.

You have lost the battle so badly that you don't even have a stick to throw.

I should have no expectation of you being able to defend yourself.

I have a Master's Degree in Education, and I have taught everything from 8th grade Math to University Electronics.

Part of the job of a Teacher is to assess the ability of the student.

I have "assessed" thousands of people.

You are one of those who sat in the back and threw spitballs, primarily because of attention span problems.

Such people usually doggedly present their problems to society until the bitter end.

But, as long as you continue, I will slam you to the mat, if it goes on a hundred years.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I don't even know how to respond to that...

Ummm... wow?

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I take that back.

You will not burden me with your mental health issues.

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from Bookie12 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I hope this guy is not a representation of the entire Lab community in the US bc that is pathetic. Blackdawgz..you have made it very clear that you are not in this whole ball game for your dogs, you are in it for.......wait for it...yourself. As a newbie to the whole bird dog training world, you sir have left an awful taste in my mouth and you should be ashamed.

I am sure the Tar of Arden would be real thrilled at the way you are promoting your fine breed. Keep it up!!

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Post a Comment

from Beekeeper wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Remarkable form! And that toe nail polish, lovely shade...

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Re: Blackdawgs

"It is nothing more or less than evidence of how badly the AKC has gotten off track.
They allowed the Field Trial to become degenerate and the Field Trial Breed is not what it used to be."

"I can't imagine Fifi slogging through the marsh for ten feet, much less fighting off the animals that reside therein."

But this isn't an example of the AKC allowing mutts in competition, or even say, a toy breed. The Standard Poodle IS a hunting dog! It was breed to be a hunting dog! Just because it has fallen out of favor does not negate what it is.

Not that a single dog entered in competition is an indicator of anything, butI would say that this is the AKC getting back to its roots!

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from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Well the Poodle was originally a water/gun dog before people downgraded it to house/lap dog. Not that I'm a big Poodle fan, I actually don't care for them too much. But it is regarded to be the second smartest dog to the Border Collie, so maybe their not that bad of a dog. They just don't look as "manly" as a Lab.

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from -Bob wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Finally…a little recognition!

We've hunted over Standard Poodles (not those nasty, yappy little squeak toys) for 25 years now. They are nothing short of remarkable; smart, sturdy and willing to dive into whatever brush tangle you choose. We really need to get past the whole chi-chi foo-foo thing…think of them as big, curly-coated retrievers who drink out of the toilet just like everyone else. -Bob

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from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

or the Labrodoodle

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from gman3186 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

whatever gets the job done doesnt always have to look the best

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from ejunk wrote 4 years 1 week ago

not interested in owning one myself, but standard poodles are traditionally a retrieving breed.

yrs-
Evan!

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from MLH wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Standard poodles are good dogs. If I remember right some were also used to hunt bear. I understand the "traditional" cut but wish they wouldn't do that. At least there isn't a bow on her head.

I'd still opt for the compromise - a pudelpointer.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Poodles are very smart. I know they're great dogs and their ancestors were hunting dogs but this still looks all wrong. LMAO Props to the poodle and his trainers, anyway--it really isn't fair to judge the working dog on his fru-fru pretty looks.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

It really is unfortunate that poodles have taken on the reputation they have. As already noted here, they are remarkably smart and were bred to be water dogs. I've always wondered how many hunters out there were still hunting over them.

From a practical standpoint though, I would hate to have to get burrs out of that coat and a big bright-white poodle would be hard to hide in a duck blind...

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I like to see any dog perform well, especially a not-normal type breed for the sport.

Gives me hope for my purebred beagle/corgi/terrier/dachshund.

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from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

but they do have black and chocolate coat colors as well

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from jscottevans wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Or have you seen where owners die the white coats multi-colors... just get a white one and paint him camouflage.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I guess I know what I am going to do with my girlfriends new golden doodle puppy . I have been wanting a new bird dog and really been thinking of training him to hunt ,now his fate is sealed . How to deal with the girlfriends reaction to this news is the tricky part .

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from chadlove wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Bob, from one kinky-haired dog fan to another, I'd hunt over your poodles any day and I wouldn't make a single snide remark. I've heard way too much "where do your chessies get their hair done?" to make fun of any dog...

I've never been fortunate enough to actually hunt over or watch a standard poodle at a trial or hunt test, but I've always wanted to. I've read a lot of good things about them.

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from Koldkut wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Thisgives me faith that a pound puppy poddle mix would make a fine addition to the family and still be huntable.

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from Mr. Creosote wrote 4 years 1 week ago

OK, Blackdawgz, I'll bite...

So you say the fact that a standard poodle earned a trip to the master national is evidence of...what, exactly?

I'm just not getting what you're trying to say. I'm not even sure you are. Seriously, what color is the sky in your world? Are you stoned when you write this s#*t or do you just make it up as you go along?

I read your rambling, incoherent posts claiming that the dogs at every hunt test and every field trial you attend are simply incompetent compared to...wait for it...yours!

Really? So the last hunt test you attended 99 percent of the dogs out there were bumbling around hunting on their marks while (of course) yours were nailing theirs at full speed? Would you care to elaborate on what club put on that hunt test? I assume none of those other dogs got their passes but yours did with flying colors, right? If it was a recent test we could easily verify your claims on Entry Express, right?

First you rip the AKC, field trials, hunt tests, modern labs and pretty much every other dog in the world except...wait for it...yours!

In fact, pretty much every single dog-related post you make is some kind of insult to every other dog out there except...wait for it...yours!

And then you turn around and use the poodles' lack of field trial success and/or national championships as evidence they suck? Huh? Are you serious?

Have any of your dogs earned a master hunter title? Have any of your dogs ever qualified for the master national?

If not, my suggestion to you would be to simply shut the hell up and stop criticizing someone whose dog has.

There are any number of historical hunting breeds out there that have been largely ruined as a result of selectively breeding for the show and pet trades, but for every one of those breeds there's a small and dedicated group of hunters and dog lovers who are trying to bring those breeds back to what they once were, whether it's red setters or field cockers or yes, standard poodles.

As a gundog owner, trainer and a lover of gundog history, I have a tremendous amount of respect for those people. And instead of being a total jackass and insulting them, maybe you should be thanking them for trying to save some vestige of the breeds they love.

After all, isn't that what you're always griping about with those "pointer-infused" modern labs? Maybe you should be getting some tips from the poodle guys...

And I went to your website. No offense, but your dogs resemble my avatar. No wonder you don't like field trials.

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from C wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I have a poodle. He is smart, fast, acrobatic, tireless, diligent, relentless, lives to retrieve things and to eat chicken. Why would he not be a great bird-retriever? OK, your labs weigh more and are stronger. When you want to retrieve an ostrich, use a lab, but for any bird that weighs under 25 lbs, the poodle will do a better job.

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from Robert Ewing wrote 4 years 1 week ago

As a kid I taught our poodle to bite my older brother if only I knew what I could have done with that dog.

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from jamesti wrote 4 years 1 week ago

what will the neighbors say when they see that pic?! this is just not right. very disturbing!

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from J4huntfish wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Im in florida right now for vacation and you see all these lap dogs on the beach. and i said to my dad are these people tring to chum for sharks

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

That is:

http://duckcallsgoosecalls.com/

not an ad, I don't care if I sell 'em or not.

I just make the best calls, just to do it.

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from huskerguy wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I guess you have to look at it this way. It's like a good lookin woman that you wouldn't picture carrying a gun, but can hang with the guys with no problem doin it.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Blackdawgz,
As a grouse hunter, firing from the hip is what I do best.

I had a bit of trouble following your somewhat rambling post, but here is my rebuttal:

1)The AKC's own breed history describes the origins of the poodle as a water retriever. http://www.akc.org/breeds/poodle/history.cfm

As far as the poodles you have seen being weak and unimpressive; I have no reason to doubt your observation. It is a breed rarely used in competition anymore, and I would imagine at present, it's a somewhat weak talent pool. They don't benefit from the vast network of clubs developing talent like most of the other hunting breeds do.

Finally, I'm not sure I understand the point of the bulk of your post. Is it that Labradors are a superior breed for waterfowl hunting than all other breeds, and that it is insulting to allow any other breeds to compete?

If so, I think you are making a stupid argument.

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from jamesti wrote 4 years 1 week ago

my lab has never competed but i would feel comfortable putting him against any of your champs regardless of bloodlines. he does everything he needs to and then some. he is very fast and one hell of a jumper. as far as a poodle goes, he'd just chew on it for a while and spit it out. i'll stick to labs, thanks.

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from jamesti wrote 4 years 1 week ago

look forward to it.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Semi-legible?

Do you know what "legible" means?

This explains everything.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I feel almost ashamad to have to point this out, but...

Without a working vocabulary, you have no hope of understanding.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

You have earned a ripping of negative comments; how smart would I be to appear negative because of the comments of someone of little-to-no understanding?

Someone who does not understand what I said in the first place?

The point is that the AKC lost credibility early on.

Anybody who awaits their next "information release" or questionable business maneuver with bated breath knows less than I know.

AKC records reveal little truth.

And certainly less than complete information.

Here the trials are far from fair.

And the misbehavior of club members is appalling.

Everywhere, breeder fraud is a problem.

I guess I was naive to not expect a show of human frailties.

But I must admit that I have never been treated worse in my life, at the hands of prominent individuals (actually scumbag cowboys) who were trying to keep out outsiders.

A trainer involved in their club sicced two of his client's Chesapeakes on Bill and Woofie.

Somebody brought a girl in heat to the event and Bill had an Altered State, but it was "OK."

I was severely heckled on my way to the line.

And while I was standing at the line while awaiting the birds.

A prominent club member stood and shouted like a catcher harasses a batter.

A spectator actually sent Bill when he was supposed to "honor."

A spectator actually sent Bill when he was supposed to "honor."

A spectator actually sent Bill when he was supposed to "honor."

A prominent club member.

The judges looked the other way because they were politically afraid.

One of the judges was in open admiration of Bill after his exceptional performance.

This was enough for me, as the judge is a recognized authority.

And Bill ran the event entirely unpracticed.

This is more than a sore subject with me.

I am seeing the same kind of heckling here, from someone who doesn't even have a brain.

I have found some birds.

I am going to get some video with world-class bird dogs and my boys.

As far as I an concerned, Anyone is welcome to attend.

Bring your dawg and some birds.

Don't be a wise-ass.

My training partner is a zero-tolerance field trial judge.

He is a highly aggressive and competitive and intelligent person.

One of his dawgz is a former National Number Three.

The rest are in training for competition at National Field TRials.

I must admit that his dawgz are what Labradors used to be.

I didn't know pointers and setters could be so intelligent.

But he volunteered that Bill and Woofie were better markers.

Then he showed me his Pointer get the scent of a pheasant and point at 75 yards with only a light breeze.

I have only tried Bill out to 50 yards, but he did it.

He remembers marks from the previous year.

This is not an invitation for more idiocy.

Although I fully expect it.

Bill has not retrieved in over a year, due to injuries.

But I don't imagine that will affect his performance.

After all, he played the lead role in the "training".

I'll post videos.

I do not think Field and Stream should be a travesty.

The comic-book atmosphere and ignorance in some areas need to be cleaned up.

It attracts and fosters the presence of unintelligent people who are out for an internet romp

To sign on to a blog and try to defend something indefensible, make libelous remarks, and then reveal a total lack of vocabulary, all the while campaigning against literacy, appears to be the actions of a pure troublemaker.

There is nothing "funny" about any of this.

A certain person is trying to get some attention.

I now abandon this fruitless conversation.

But thank you for giving me the opportunity to relate the Sordid Tale of the Hunt Test.

Maybe I created the opportunity.

Really?

I thought he was Old...

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from Mr. Creosote wrote 4 years 1 week ago

And the weird, baffling and off-topic stream-of-consciousness continues...

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

But I would expect you to not understand.

I see precious little evidence that you have followed any of this beyond "The."

Your poor vocabulary and illogical mindset will prevent any attempt at "understanding" beyond a one-liner.

You have a Neanderthal mind.

You want me to abbreviate my answers so you will have something you imagine yourself to understand and issue a primitive rubber-stamp rebuttal.

None of this is personal to me.

Logical argument is the presentation of facts to support a conjecture.

Your emotional response showed that you have difficulty reading and that your vocabulary and reading comprehension are those of the average fifth grader.

Your only defense has been to quote a business organization of fraudsters regarding an inferior breed for the purpose of getting more entry fee money.

Go to a Field Trial.

See any poodles?

Not one.

Why not?

Because they are not even marginally competitive! The Hunt Test is an opportunity to give the owners of lesser dogs an opportunity to pay entry fees.

I am positively ashamed of having taken Bill to such an event.

But I don't even know anybody who has a Labrador, and I wanted to see how he was doing.

Without any practice whatsoever.

As a recurrence of an Old World Champion, he should have blown them away and he did.

Retriever Clubs are a circle-jerk.

If you are not invested in their club and dogs and trainers, then you are as welcome as a whore in church.

I'm glad we got run off.

We may reappear in the Puget Sound area.

I don't know.

He looked like Hank Aaron at a high-school game.

I'll have to think about it.

Give it up.

You have lost the battle so badly that you don't even have a stick to throw.

I should have no expectation of you being able to defend yourself.

I have a Master's Degree in Education, and I have taught everything from 8th grade Math to University Electronics.

Part of the job of a Teacher is to assess the ability of the student.

I have "assessed" thousands of people.

You are one of those who sat in the back and threw spitballs, primarily because of attention span problems.

Such people usually doggedly present their problems to society until the bitter end.

But, as long as you continue, I will slam you to the mat, if it goes on a hundred years.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I take that back.

You will not burden me with your mental health issues.

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from Bookie12 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I hope this guy is not a representation of the entire Lab community in the US bc that is pathetic. Blackdawgz..you have made it very clear that you are not in this whole ball game for your dogs, you are in it for.......wait for it...yourself. As a newbie to the whole bird dog training world, you sir have left an awful taste in my mouth and you should be ashamed.

I am sure the Tar of Arden would be real thrilled at the way you are promoting your fine breed. Keep it up!!

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Correction: fifth sentence from end...

The Hunt Test and Field Trial...delete "the emergence".

People have forgotten that the AKC is just a business and no kind of an authority.

Their re-definition of the breed standard for a taller and underweight dog put the breeders of English dogs out of business, and that is where the standardized breed came from in the first place.

The Field Trial regulations caused the extinction of the old breed as well.

AKC is nothing more or less than a political organization with today's breed of irresponsible managers churning their way to "improved" resumes by whatever means.

I attempted to communicate with them once to clarify an issue, and it was clear that the meaning and intent of the rules had long-ago faded into the misty past.

To Hell with 'em!!!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 1 week ago

That's just wrong, no matter what!~

Dear Lord, forgive them and be with the starving pygmies in New Guinea...

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

That just goes to show what happens when you fire from the hip.

I go all the way back to 1948 with Labradors.

None of the Gun Dog books from that era mention any kind of poodle.

And only Irish Water Spaniels from that genre.

The poodles I saw at hunt tests just didn't have it.

They were weak and slow and entirely unimpressive otherwise.

They didn't have any of the instincts.

There is no way that one can swim with a Labrador.

The AKC has just gone South along with certain other institutions of modern times, like the government and the presidency.

Go check the AKC records, and you will see that no poodle has never entered a National Championship, much less won.

In fact you can't even find a Golden in recent decades.

My records indicate that the AKC was only something to be corrupted, going back to 1941.

That year, Tar of Arden won the National Championship under the existing AKC rules, while a local club on Long Island put on one event, claiming it to be the National Championship.

Nobody with a competitive dog even went there.

They managed to get history re-written.

But I have in my profile a photo of Tar of Arden posing with the Field and Stream Trophy for the best retriever in the country.

This trophy was awarded to the National Champion.

Just to prove a point, Paul Bakewell III next showed up at the "National Championship" with a young relative of Tar's and won it two years in a row.

Then he went off to WWII for two years and came back and won it again with a 7-year-old shed to have the first (of two ever) 3-time National Champion, and the only one for 50 years.

All competitive Labradors today are descended from Tar and Shed.

To imagine a poodle competing with that guy, or many of his descendents (including my Bill), is to reside in fantasy land.

Shed was a Show Champion as well, and the first US Dual Champion.

He was the very definition of the best of the breed.

TODAY HE WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED FROM AKC DOG SHOWS BECAUSE HE'S MUCH BIGGER THAN WHAT THEY CALL A LABRADOR RETRIEVER.

I have always hunted with the best dogs and the best shotguns.

The dogs have been descendents of Tar and Shed, and the shotguns are Parkers, Elsies, and now Benellis.

I will continue to do so.

http://duckcallsgoosecalls

See the About Us page for more info.

Woofie should be the perfect show dog.

Under current AKC rules, he is 3" too short and 30 lbs too big.

But I must say, that in this magazine, the fish photos and the deer and Elk photos are the best ever.

I invite anyone to come out to a guided Mallard hunt (at your expense) and see what Real Retrievers look like.

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from shotgunlou wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I took my pitbull quail hunting one day just to get her out and get some excercise and within about 5 minutes she pointed her first quail. I couldnt figure out why I couldnt get her to get her nose out of the tumble weeds until I walked up to her and 3 quail exploded out of it.
I got lucky and quickly recovered from my heart attack in time to shoot a double. She helped me get my first limit of quail.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I second Blackdawgz comments about Labradors. I know nothing about the other breeds by choice. You want to see a retrieving exposition, come on out during snow goose season and our black dogs will show you how it's supposed to be done! LOL

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

This argument reminds me of hunters that argue that all shotgun production should have stopped with the development of the 12 gauge Remington 870 since it can "do it all".

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from shadbuster wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I might consider getting a standard poodle as my next gun dog, if they are as good and intelligent as some say they would certainly be a interesting breed to train, and it would be nice to see the other guys reactions when you step out of your vehicle with a poodle in tow! If only I didn't love German shorthairs so much, too bad you can only own a handful of dogs in your lifetime.

"And I went to your website. No offense, but your dogs resemble my avatar. No wonder you don't like field trials."

Don't sale those fat labs short, I don't know how they perform in field trials but I owned one and they can retrieve all day long and all that blubber keeps them warm and lets them ride high in the water! But seriously they perform well in the field and in my experience are not as hyper as the skinnier type of lab.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

jamesti ;

Well said.

Picking from a known bloodline only increases the probability of getting one like yours.

A well-known authority has stated that "A grocery boy in Idaho may own a dog that would befit a Shooting Earl."

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

But I must add.

My post is my own opinion.

It is a sharing of information, and I have done my research.

If a dog can be written into the National Field Championship, anything is possible at the local level.

But there's more...

I can think of at least three contributors who have no problem reading, digesting, and analyzing my stuff.

I imply a lot and leave a lot to be tied in at the end; more mature and more accomplished readers like this.

They enjoy tying together the implications.

I can think of at least three who can say, "Well, he left this out and he left that out, and there are shade differences in word meaning.

But they have never once asked me to cut it short so they can understand it.

Everybody has a right to accept it or not, or believe it or not.

But a personal attack is unwarranted.

Anybody who reads something,knowing they won't like it and explodes is mentally ill.

It is like when the gay rangers bugged my workshop and driveway.

I used to end my speeches with, "If you don't like it, why do you listen?"

You would have to be mentally ill to subject yourself to something that causes you to lose it.

There are people here who are high-testosterone folk who occasionally go off.

Hunters usually have a lot of machisimo.

It is inevitable that they lock horns occasionally.

But they are also otherwise very logical and reasonable.

There are centuries of experience here.

Some of these guys are experts at what they do, and possess admirable bodies of knowledge.

The facts I have presented here are history and are undeniable.

Tar of Arden went on to become the first Labrador in the Hall of Fame.

She is the Breed Matriarch.

The other dog was forgotten by all except the AKC records.

There's more, but I can tell you're getting drowsy.

But the good news is that I think I have found some birds, and we'll be going to Goldendale in the next week or two to make a video.

I'll post a link.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Well Blackdawgs,
If it's possible to win an argument simply by posting page after page of semi-legible ramblings, you've given it one he11 of a try...

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I heard a rumour about a guy who trained a pack of poodles to pull a sleigh and then completed the Idatrod in Alaska. Probably not true, but IF it is, that is spunky!

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from sjsmarais@gmail.com wrote 4 years 1 week ago

It IS true! http://home.gci.net/~poodlesleddog/

This just made my day!

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from uplander12 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Hear ye, hear ye. The King of the Labradors has decreed that all other dogs, being unworthy to even be called dogs, shall forever be eradicated.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

"You have earned a ripping of negative comments; how smart would I be to appear negative because of the comments of someone of little-to-no understanding?
Someone who does not understand what I said in the first place?"

Well, you got two things right. I have no idea what you "said in the first place", and semi-legible was the wrong adjective. How about semi-coherent.

I also give you credit for admitting you have a personal ax to grind with the AKC. It gives a lot of context to the bulk of your posts.

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from Bob81 wrote 4 years 1 week ago

I don't even know how to respond to that...

Ummm... wow?

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Well...

Glad I couls strike a nerve.

There are two of us out here, anyway.

A rambling post answered by a rambling post.

You have to know the history of the thing.

"Retrievers" are all descended from the Lesser Newfoundland.

When the Second Earl of Malmesbury imported them to England and shared them with his brother, the Duke of Buccleuch, in Scotland.

They would compete with each other taking turns as host.

Peter of Faskally won the first English Retriever Trial.

1915, I believe.

There was not a Poodle in attendance.

Nor at any other meet ever.

When Averill Harriman imported them to the United states for the purpose of competition and won it in 1935, there had never been a Poodle in competition.

And there hasn't been

The Hunt Test is a Farce and a social dance.

The Best Dawg is decided at the Field Trial.

No poodle has ever won a Field Trial in this country.

As for allegations of drug abuse, I should sue.

If you cannot understand my writing, that speaks for itself.

It is perfectly logical and concise (to me).

If your span of attention cannot handle a page, that is your problem.

I don't know how I can find presenting the Poodle as representative of American retrievers to be offensive.

I always enjoyed "Mad" magazine.

And nobody took it seriously, either.

In parting (this time for good), I already reminded everyone that the AKC is a business.

Businesses are here to maximize their profits.

If you don't understand what this means, you have never been in management.

They invented the Hunt Tests to double their profits.

The photo of the Poodle is to be taken the same way as the cute little girl doing a "Grip and Grin" with a small panfish.

Her heart is in the right place, but it is not to be taken the same way as the monster moose taken in Alaska last year.

I am particularly happy with my boys because of their breed history.

Tar and Shed were bred on Harriman's estate, Arden.

30,000 acres and a small castle in upstate New York.

He was heir to the Union Pacific and owned an international bank.

His business partners were George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush.

They financed the construction of the Nazi concentration camps.

They were convicted of consorting with the enemy and were never punished.

That's political clout.

Harriman went on to become governor of New York, Special Ambassador, and was Chief negotiator at the Paris Peace Talks.

You know about the Bushes.

Harriman had the clout to buy the best dogs or anything else.

The only dog that could match their pedigree in US history was N-Word of Barrington, 1938 NFC.

Bakewell was a sportsman.

His father and Grandfather were prominent patent attorneys during the industrial revolution and his wife's great Uncle was JP Morgan.

He got Tar and Shed from Harriman.

He had the social contacts to do so.

There was not a poodle on the radar screen.

It's laughable.

To even suggest such a thing would get you chased off to the end of the planet.

Bill Rook, who owned Bill and Woofie's kennel, was in the Army during WWII with Cotton Pershall as a dog trainer.

Pershall trained all the best dogs in the Chicago area, including Bakewell's.

Bigstone was a Pershall breeding project.

The First for studs there were Little Pierre of Deer Creek (Tar's Hall of Famer son), and Hall-of-Famers Shed of Arden, Marvadel Black Gum, and Cork of Oakwood Lane.

To mention "Poodle" in the same breath is to invite social ostracism forever".

All dogs bred back in were their descendents.

Resulting in an abnormally high percentage of Hall of Famers in my boys' pedigrees, increasing the probability that they would have the qualities of their ancestors.

It worked!

Just because I knew what to look for.

Like Harriman and Bakewell, I sought the best bloodlines.

I had been looking at all breeds.

I actually shopped for and compared Poodles, Goldens, NSDTRs, Chesapeakes.

Without bias.

But, in light of the fact that 95% of National Field Champions had been Black Labradors, one Brown that had not been bred for it, the rest yellows and Goldens, it came down to a choice between the Golden Retriever and the Labrador.

Some Swamp Collies are excellent.

Bakewell was the first competitor to train his own dog.

He won the NFC two years in a row with RIP.

The next season, RIP got killed in an accident, but it turned out that Tar was tied with him for first place.

Here is a girl who had been busy producing litters that were not registered with the AKC, so was virtually untrained, and the won the National Championship under the points system, which was in effect at the time, under AKC rules.

The AKC, submitting to political pressures, proclaimed someone else to be National Champion.

Someone who was not even in the points race, and was never considered to be champion material.

At that point, the AKC's credibility was at zero.

Then, to re-write the rules for competition and judge at the most simplified level, and then arbitrarily rewrite a breed description that had stood for over 7 decades, is to change the breed according to the AKC.

Understandably, many people departed.

People expect the AKC to behave honorably as an American institution.

It is not.

It is a get-down, shady business whose employees have an ever-shortening list of things they won't do.

For you to be unable to follow simple logic and resort to a libelous remark makes you

UNfit for Conversation.

Unworthy of Refutation.

But here's some info to educate readers on a fine Sunday morning.

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

Having stated The Case, along with submitting facts, and seeing no response from Real Retriever people, I will now abandon this inanity.

I will only further state that I have seen a Siamese Cat retrieve.

And a Canned Hunt Owner recounted retrieving tales of a certain Jack Russel retriever of pheasants which got eaten by a Cougar.

I do not see how making a mockery of Retrieving is going to advance the cause of this magazine.

Besides, I have no idea what I'm going to do with the "Points" I already have.

So I will reserve further comment.

The Last Days of "Field and Stream" are certainly at hand.

But I love the photos of the Big Game Animals and the Fish.

I don't see how anybody could find The Fishh more objectionable than this article.

Guess I gotta stick around to see who takes over this magazine...

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 1 week ago

It is nothing more or less than evidence of how badly the AKC has gotten off track.

They allowed the Field Trial to become degenerate and the Field Trial Breed is not what it used to be.

So a political faction drew up a set of rules to try to perpetuate the old breed and allow non-competitive dogs and generate additional revenue for the AKC.

Enter these ridiculous foo foo dogs.

At the last Hunt Test I attended, 99% of the "Labradors" were of the new field trial breeding for the purpose of cheating.

Sure am glad I got one from old bloodlines.

The irony was that the other dogs needed to "Hunt" and he ran directly to the birds at full speed.

Pinpoint marks while everybody else searched at least two acres.

In breeding out size and aggression, along with it went the old intelligence.

It is sad to say that Labradors can no longer be assumed intelligent.

On top of that, it was clear that the new breed has a significant amount of pointer in them.

Not that pointers are bad, but those were mutts!

There were other breeds as well, none of which were reminiscent of anything I saw in the Old Days.

I can't imagine Fifi slogging through the marsh for ten feet, much less fighting off the animals that reside therein.

The Hunt Test and the Field Trial have encouraged the emergence an exodus from AKC, to newly-emerging organizations.

The future is clear..

It is over for the AKC for retrievers.

Bird dogs as well.

All the best pointers and setters have gone to other organizations in this area.

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