


July 12, 2010
Hurteau: What Should The Penalty Be for Jacking Deer?
By Dave Hurteau
A common complaint among hunters (myself included) in the wake of many deer poaching convictions is that the punishment isn’t tough enough. So I’ve got a simple question for you: What should the punishment be? For example, what should a first-time offender get for:
1. Jacklighting deer
2. Killing a deer out of season
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer
Pennsylvania just approved new penalties for first-time offenders caught doing any of the above. So let’s compare your answers with PA’s new rules. (If you’ve been reading the news and know PA’s new penalties, kindly keep it to yourself for now.) I’ll post a news story detailing the Keystone State’s updated rules in a few days.
Comments (54)
1) $15,000 fine
2) fine, imprisonment or both depending on circumstances.
3) fine, imprisonment or both depending on circumstances.
And just for the record if a homeless family poaches a deer to keep from starving to death, I'm gonna have a hard time calling fish and game. Just saying.
1. Jacklighting deer = If it’s just spotlighting... I’d say a fine $100 range. If there is a (projectile launching apparatus of any type in the vehicle) potato gun, harpoon gun, air gun, .270, crossbow, blow gun what have you, then they perpetrator should forfeit that weapon+ a hefty fine $2000ish. If they have killed a deer or shots have been fired (attempted to kill) then vehicle and weapon should be lost, larger fine (I like the pay by the inch rule for bucks) loss of 3 years+ of hunting privileges, community service and maybe a night or two in the county lockup.
2. Killing a deer out of season = Large fine $2000+, Pay by the inch for bucks, loss of weapon used, loss of hunting privileges for upcoming seasons.
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer = $500 per deer ($1000 for a buck + pay by the inch rule) and one or two less tags for the following season
I know there could be a lot of what “if’s” put into these but this is a quick “rough” assessment. I like pay by the inch, you kill a 170” class deer then…. 170x $20 per inch= $3,400 on top of a base amount.
1)Take hunting license for 5 years and fine
2)Hefty fine
3)Take hunting license for 1 year
1. Jacklighting deer - 2 Year License Suspension
2. Killing a deer out of season - 5 Year License Suspension
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer - 2 Year License Suspension
People will pay fines and move on...taking away their privilege to hunt hurts so much more. Plus...if fines are to high and people don't have the money, then what's that really accomplish...
I had very harsh penalties typed up for the first two, then I got to the last one and thought "well, if the person's feeding a family of 7, unemployed ..." Then I looked back up at the first two and applied that reasoning, and realized I'm not qualified to govern the people.
1) $1k, license revoked 1 year, 6 mon jail
2) $5k, license revoked 2 year, 1 year jail
3) $10k, license permanently revoked, 2 year jail
They should be put in a maximun security prison for the rest of thier lives, for all of the offenses.
1. Jacklighting deer (with intent/ability to shoot) - 5 Year License Suspension
2. Killing a deer out of season - 10 Year License Suspension
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer - 5 Year License Suspension
As for the folks trying to feed their families, operate undetected man!!!
In WV:
1.
Lets try this again.
In WV:
1. Automatic 10 days in jail, $100.00 fine $180 court
cost, 10 points hunting license ( lose hunting
license 2 years)
2. Min $20 fine Max $300 fine possible 100 days jail
$180 court cost 6 points on hunting license.
$100 Replacement fee
3. Min $20 fine Max $300 fine possible 100
days jail
$180 court cost 6 points on hunting license.
$100 Replacement fee
When a person gets 10 points on their hunting license they loose their hunting license for 2 years.
Magistrate decides what fine will be between $20 and $300
and if jail time will be .
Can lose anything they are using to violate the law( truck, gun etc.)
Take the license, vehicle and weapon along with a fine that equals the value of the game.
1) fine $1000ish and loss of hunting and fishing privelages for 5-10 years
2)loss of hunting and fishing privelages for life fine of $5000-$10000ish
3)loss of hunting and fishing privelages for life fine of $30000 or more
all should include restitution costs based on the formulas used now. hopefully these offenses happen in a state in the interstate wildlife violator compact so they lose even more.
And just for the record if a homeless family poaches a deer to keep from starving to death i will have a hard time reporting them.
Lifetime loss of trophy room bragging rights, 3-5 years loss of hunting/fishing rights, confiscation of truck and guns used in offense. These are actual punishments in Arkansas.
I'd imagine the fines are plenty harsh already and the judge I hope has discretion for someone who doesn't have much money for food. I hear some states back east have real high unemployment.
Jacklighting means spotlighting and killing right, because spotlighting is legal here...
jacklighting: $500 fine loss of hunting license 4years
deer out of season: i think it should multiply if in spring because its like killing potentially 3 deer. but also $500 loss of license for 3 years
Bag limit: cost of tag X11 loss of license 2years.
Repeat offenses should be double.
I know many offenders just end up hunting without a license which kind of just makes an even worse situation but it is a privilege and no license is a good reminder.
Jacklighting means spotlighting and killing right, because spotlighting is legal here...
jacklighting: $500 fine loss of hunting license 4years
deer out of season: i think it should multiply if in spring because its like killing potentially 3 deer. but also $500 loss of license for 3 years
Bag limit: cost of tag X11 loss of license 2years.
Repeat offenses should be double.
I know many offenders just end up hunting without a license which kind of just makes an even worse situation but it is a privilege and no license is a good reminder.
I really like the law we have in ohio where the larger the buck you poach the larger the fine you have to pay. Some deer are running 5 figures...
I try not to gudge people who are trying to feed their families. However the case may not be for food then I get really upset. More public hunting opportunities are needed. I do not condone such behavior I just wish we did more for the hungry than donate what we kill. for instance nusance deer kills that farmers shoot are not harvested and usually go to waste. We could do better.
Jeez guys! Why don't some of you just go ahead and construct a scaffold!?
I know poaching isn't right, regardless of method.
Any penalty, to me, is a deterant. I just don't do it.
They (the state) can take my vehicle, take my firearm, take my hunting priviledge for several years. It just ain't worth all that, PLUS a fine.
Bubba
I guess my problem with suspending or taking away hunting privileges from these scoundrels is that a license is just a piece of paper - it isn't going to stop them from going out and killing deer, especially if they've already proven that they think they are above the law. At least if they're buying a license and breaking the rules they're at least still contributing to the operating costs of the DNR or wherever the license money is going these days.
I like the idea of confiscating the vehicle and weapons, and a hefty fine. For those that worry about fines being "too high" there's an easy way to avoid them - don't poach.
If a deer is actually poached, it needs to be a felony. Besides any fine, a convicted felon cannot possess a firearm. They may switch to a bow, but will never legally own a gun. Misuse a firearm, loose the right to have one!!!!!
I am not sure being more impoverished will help people not shoot deer for food and not being able to own a gun doesn't keep people from finding one, I am just trying to get people in camp to stop killing legal 6 month old deer. This kid was like, but "they are more tender", and since he lives close to the lease I am pretty sure it has been used like a meat grocery store year round, but the reality is 6 month old deer are so small that they don't produce very much meat, and when I think about 6 month old nubbin bucks that were conceived in the second rut taken before they can contribute and mature I want to pay more and push folks out of the club. I will age an old buck and marinate the loins and it provides plenty of tender meals, but this kid will want to shoot these deer until he is taught otherwise.
If the offenses occur in a State where whitetails are as numerous as fireants and cause millions of dollars of damage to property and several human deaths per year.......
Give him a certificate of appreciation for a job well done and tell him to double his efforts.
Jacklighting is a danger to the community at large and shows no respect for the lives and safety of others. They should be accorded the same fate as wifebeaters and violent offenders: loss of firearms ownership priviledges like other felons.
The other violations should have penalties like other game for exceeding bag limits and out of season. Nothing that sacred about a deer over a goose, for example.
First Bubba
I like the scaffold idea. You'll only have to hang one.
I will have to make a statement here that I have made in other posts. I have never arrested anyone for spotlighting that needed the meat to feed their families. 90% of the time alcohol was involved and it was a game. The people had the cash in their pockets to pay the fine so I think they could have bought groceries. We had crop damage permits out all the time and all they had to do was to contact us and we could put them in contact with a landowner that had a damage permit and they could kill how many deer they needed to feed their family. Don't be fooled to believe it is to feed their family it is a game. Thank goodness a lot of the time I won the game.
I say bring back chain gangs. I hear swinging a pick and shovel along side of the road builds character.
My first instinct is to say hang em high, but even I think that might be a little excessive. I think it should be different from state to state depending on the harm. Where deer are jumping out in front of vehicles like luv bugs on the Florida Turnpike, maybe the fines don't need to be as high as places where the deer are scarce. But wrong is still wrong--jacklighting is the worst of the three--take the hunting license on the first offense--maybe cut off the trigger fingers for a second offense--both of em--one for the light & one for the gun. LOL
In Alaska fir Game Violation is easy!
For what you used to get you from home to the place of kill, Motor Home, trailer, Boat, ATV and all equipment including your Learjet will be confiscated on top of a hefty fine!
On a Alaska Sheep Hunt, They will weigh your meat and check every portion to make sure you even carried out the meat below the knee and if it doesn't add up for even the meat below the knee, they will helicopter you out to inspect the remains and you better hope a bear got it and don't tell them a bear got the meat when you brought the rack or horns out, they don't give a rip about your sniveling story!!!!
Scott, as a former Military Game Warden, Civilians were tried in County Court and chances are the Judge happens to be a friend of a friend or worst yet, next of Kin! They don't take to kindly messing with dar Kin Folks, know what I'm saying dar Vern!!!
Comparing back in the 70's & 80's are very different than now. I turned loose a few allowing them to keep the deer because the actually needed it for food. We scared them abit making them think we were taking them in,but we were instructed to handle it that way.
For today's violations, individuals caught rarely need the meat and driving expensive vehicles.
1. Jacklighting deer
AND
2. Killing a deer out of season
Confiscation of the vehicle and equipment used plus fine and jail.
As for 3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer?
Same as 1 & 2 provided it wasn't an accident, two deer with one shot. The Shooter must also report the two kills to prevent prosecution unless evidence proves otherwise. It happens to even the best, been dar witness dat!
I think that the fines should not be as rediculous as some of you have been saying, this is a deer for gosh sakes, if it's a trophy make the fine stiffer and if not then minimal. If you used a gun then loss of the weapon used to commit the crime, and a loss of 1 years privileges. Most people will learn after one time, we don't give stiif sentences to drug dealers and wife beaters as bad as some of you want to give poachers. No felonies, that hurts persons chances of holding down jobs to feed their families, if they can't afford it then they can't so why destroy their life over a deer. they have a family don't peanalize their wife and kids. be compassionate and take care of one another, a good rule to live with.
deerwhacker40. I am not trying to start any argument and I am not judging you, I am just kind of annoyed I guess you can say at your "its just a deer comment". A deer is an animal and it should be treated that way. It breathes just like all of us and our families. If its "just a deer" then is your dad "just a dad"? What if someone murdered him would he be just a dad? No you love him and respect him. And you should respect deer. I know that comparison isn't on the same caliber but I think you understand where im coming from. Anyway throw them in jail and let em suffer for the rest of their lifes
Any of the 3 would be illegally taking a deer. In Iowa its $1500 restitution for a doe, and up to a max. of $20,000 for a trophy buck, depending on the size. They will also pay hefty fines,lose weapons and vehicles, and lose hunting priveliges in all states in the compact for at least 3 years.
I know the penalities have increased I won't give them away(mostly because I don't remember them). Poching is a big problem here. Most poachers don't need the meat they shoot buck's for their heads(racks) and leave the rest to rot. Let the punishment fit the crime.
i think fines should be stiff for all wildlife violations but should be based on the violators ability to pay. it is very difficult for a person making minimun wage to pay a fine ranging into the thousands, but to a person earning a 6 figure income a 5 thousand dollar fine is like a slap on the wrist. judges should have flexability to fine accordingly. since poaching of all kinds is rampant in my area, jail time should be mandatory for all offenders. "if you can't do the time,don't do the crime."
I agree with Clay Cooper. Alittle jail time and confiscation of equipment would be a good deturrent.
Seriously, you can't get some people to pay a ten dollar seat belt ticket, and plenty of people drive every day with no license or after it has been suspended or revoked.
Loss of rifle, vehicle and or reasonable jail time would be more realistic punishments.
despite what I said earlier, let me say this. Don't judge others, as you also will be judged.
Some days I look at this and think that poachers should be punished harshly. Other days I step back and see how govermentized hunting has become, with all the laws and regulations. Daniel Boone and Davy Crocket would roll in their grave.
Society operates more successfully with a few rules and or, regulations for the common cause. Since the perpetrator(s) were violating the law by taking something, he or she ought not only replace what they took, but made to serve the part of society that had their interests violated.
For example, one could best be prosecuted by helping and aiding the Department of Wildlife by talking to High School and College students, outdoor groups and enthusiasts about the inherent characteristics of violating game restrictions.
But first, a fine must be levied to pay the cost of the wildlife and time lost investigating and implementing such an unconventional penalty.
It seems that just a fine isn't enough to keep someone from violating the law, for example, a speeding ticket. But if someone had to humble themselves, and speak to the younger generation after studying the effects of their poor choices, it would "probably" sink in a little deeper not only to the speaker and violater, but to the up and coming outdoor enthusiasts.
There is an old latin phrase, "Praemonitus praemunitus" which translates to "Forewarned is Forearmed!"
Knowledge of imminent danger, breaking the law, taking something that doesn't belong to you, can prepare us, as well as younger people to overcome it, through preparation of both the heart and mind, through someone else's experience.
They say, "Knowledge is King," and it is, but e-x-p-er-i-e-n-c-e, first hand, personal experience, sometimes trumps knowledge.
Some minds, whether young or old, experience is "the" only teacher.
#1 5year lose of licens n 2 years jail time
#2 lose hunting N fishing licens for life
#3 same as #1
do the crime do the time
I have often thought on this topic and others will probably disagree, but tag the fine to double what the game farms are charging. A cull, with a score less than 125 would end up about $5k, a score of 180 plus could end up close to $40k plus loss of firearm or bow and if a vehicle was used in the crime ... confiscate it. Oh also make it a felony.
First time offence, clear record, stupid AZZ mistake, JACKLIGHT W/Weapon including up to Straw & Pea or Rubberband & paperclip = 3 days solitary confinement, no phone call, $1200.00 fine, all weapons confiscated, loss of license for 3yrs in all 50 states, 400 hrs community service serving @ orphanage or V.A. Hosp. KILLING OUT OF SEASON = 3 days solitary confinement no phone call, 90 days in jail, confiscation of all equipment except shirt, pants, socks., loss of game, $10,000.00 fine, loss of all hunting & fishing in that state + 3yrs in any other states, 1000 hrs of wearing sandwich board stating that he or she is a poacher in front of local schools. EXCEEDING BAG LIMIT FOR DEER = $1000.00 or $100.00 a pound for doe & fawn which ever is more, $2500.00 or $200.00 a pound for 8pt or less which ever is more, $1000.00 per point + $250.00 per pound on 9pt + and loss of game, loss of license for following year in all 50 states, 200 hrs community state park service. It could be worse, I thought I was reasonable ?
stealing is stealing. If someone stole grocery from the grocery store an was caught,they would go to jail the law don't care if the family was hungry.
the penalty should be the same as whatever your states classify as theft.
Number 1, jacklighting is illegal in our state, if caught, you lose the vehicle, firearm and jail time is a certainty, and you lose hunting privileges for up to 10 years, plus a hefty azzed fine.
Number 2, shooting a dear out of season is theft! Stolen from you and me, hunters who pay for a licenses and hunt game fairly. The same rules apply as Number 1.
Number 3, Same rules apply as Numbers 1 & 2. Really now, if you're stupid enough to say, hunt while jacklighting, and out of season, why the hell would you want to shoot more than one? You think the shots fired after the first one wasn't heard too? How many can you pack on your back at a time? If you're that big of a dufus, you deserve to be caught!! Numbers 1 & 2 apply here also!
However, like a lot of folks today being out of work, families to feed, the economy being what it is....... be smart, just shoot one, let me know where it is and I'll help you get it home!! I remember as a small lad, if the meat in the freezer hadn't been taken on the sly, God knows we'd have been hungry like these other folks portrayed in the 3 questions asked at the beginning of this blog. God forgive us all.
$250 fine, restitution for the animal and permanent loss of hunting privileges. I did a little checking and it appears that the old "I was only trying to feed my family" routine is without merit. Today there is no place in this country that aid cannot be found, from the largest city to the poorest village in the remote mountainous areas of our Nation. Even if a person is an illegal alien they can get food stuffs and medical treatment just for the asking. The food stuffs will not be venison, nor the medical treatment from one of the big Hospitals (most likely a free clinic), but it's there for the asking, and no one needs to resort to poaching unless they enjoy putting one over on the local conservation officer, or wants to put forward an image of himself as the poor downtrodden woodsman self supporting his poor family. Poaching is Poaching - Stealing is Stealing.
Deepwoods
I agree with you that "stealing is stealing", period!
In an attempt to make a bit of mad money, I applied at a world known retail outlet. In my recall interview, I was asked why I stated "It depends" on whether I would report an employee stealing.
My reply was, "If JoeBob just started working for the company, was broke and hungry, and snatched a candy bar, I ain't saying nothing! If Fred was stealing computers to sell, to me that's different!"
I was informed that there are NO degrees of theft, just theft!
A kid that went to work the same time I did, was fired about 6 months later.
Seems he and his wife both worked at this joint, but still didn't make that much money. He would go to the grocery end of the store, grab an item or two out of the bent can bin to eat! They were just going to throw it out, but they terminated him for theft!
Bubba
Interesting range of opinions here. If you're honest with yourself, you've screwed up a time or two in your life. To learn from it, it's gotta hurt. But everyone deserves a second chance. Repeat offenders are the ones who should have their trigger fingers cut off and spend some time in jail.
Whackdaddy's first post seemed to be praised for what I think was copping out on the question at hand ? Not that his opinion should be tossed aside but somewhere down the line, a penalty should be addressed...to POACHING ! If there are no penalties why have a license ? why hunt within regulated seasons or in daylight ? What does it take to really answer the question ? Out of line is out of line and yes Whackdaddy maiming is out of line so really, Whackdaddy I am interested in your opinion about those three questions as they pertain to everybodys property and we are there to keep their numbers in check, legally. It would not take to many free-for-alls to screw up something hunters have worked very hard on over the past 60yrs. Bottom line someone has to pay, the sportsman has been paying all along, should not the criminal ?
DEATH BY JACKLIGHT!
Jacklighting and killing a deer out of season are very different from exceeding the bag limit in my opinion. Anyone participating in Jacklighting or killing a deer out of season has to be aware that they are breaking the law, however a person might exceed the bag limit by
(1) killing more than one deer with one shot
(2) multiple shots thinking that they are shooting at the same deer when in fact they are shooting at different deer, as in shoot, wounded deer runs, see deer in distance, think it is same one previously wounded, shoot again, kill deer, find first deer and second deer dead. This can easily occur especially when doe hunting, as no rack to differentiate size or form.
The difference in this case is whether or not the hunter in question reports the facts or just sneaks the extra deer home.
1- If there is a firearm in the vehicle then 1k fine(attempted to kill loss of privleges for 3 years.
2-$3,000 fine for each deer and loss of hunting privliges for 1 season for each deer killed out of season.
3-$3,000 fine for each deer and loss of hunting privliges for 1 season for each deer over the limit.
You asked for it: My next article is going to be about Louis Vuitton handbags.
Concerning those Vuitton handbags, do you like them with a short or long shoulder strap? A leather strap or gold chain? Just kidding!!!!!!!!!
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I had very harsh penalties typed up for the first two, then I got to the last one and thought "well, if the person's feeding a family of 7, unemployed ..." Then I looked back up at the first two and applied that reasoning, and realized I'm not qualified to govern the people.
I'd imagine the fines are plenty harsh already and the judge I hope has discretion for someone who doesn't have much money for food. I hear some states back east have real high unemployment.
Lets try this again.
In WV:
1. Automatic 10 days in jail, $100.00 fine $180 court
cost, 10 points hunting license ( lose hunting
license 2 years)
2. Min $20 fine Max $300 fine possible 100 days jail
$180 court cost 6 points on hunting license.
$100 Replacement fee
3. Min $20 fine Max $300 fine possible 100
days jail
$180 court cost 6 points on hunting license.
$100 Replacement fee
When a person gets 10 points on their hunting license they loose their hunting license for 2 years.
Magistrate decides what fine will be between $20 and $300
and if jail time will be .
Can lose anything they are using to violate the law( truck, gun etc.)
Jeez guys! Why don't some of you just go ahead and construct a scaffold!?
I know poaching isn't right, regardless of method.
Any penalty, to me, is a deterant. I just don't do it.
They (the state) can take my vehicle, take my firearm, take my hunting priviledge for several years. It just ain't worth all that, PLUS a fine.
Bubba
I guess my problem with suspending or taking away hunting privileges from these scoundrels is that a license is just a piece of paper - it isn't going to stop them from going out and killing deer, especially if they've already proven that they think they are above the law. At least if they're buying a license and breaking the rules they're at least still contributing to the operating costs of the DNR or wherever the license money is going these days.
I like the idea of confiscating the vehicle and weapons, and a hefty fine. For those that worry about fines being "too high" there's an easy way to avoid them - don't poach.
If the offenses occur in a State where whitetails are as numerous as fireants and cause millions of dollars of damage to property and several human deaths per year.......
Give him a certificate of appreciation for a job well done and tell him to double his efforts.
I will have to make a statement here that I have made in other posts. I have never arrested anyone for spotlighting that needed the meat to feed their families. 90% of the time alcohol was involved and it was a game. The people had the cash in their pockets to pay the fine so I think they could have bought groceries. We had crop damage permits out all the time and all they had to do was to contact us and we could put them in contact with a landowner that had a damage permit and they could kill how many deer they needed to feed their family. Don't be fooled to believe it is to feed their family it is a game. Thank goodness a lot of the time I won the game.
i think fines should be stiff for all wildlife violations but should be based on the violators ability to pay. it is very difficult for a person making minimun wage to pay a fine ranging into the thousands, but to a person earning a 6 figure income a 5 thousand dollar fine is like a slap on the wrist. judges should have flexability to fine accordingly. since poaching of all kinds is rampant in my area, jail time should be mandatory for all offenders. "if you can't do the time,don't do the crime."
1) $15,000 fine
2) fine, imprisonment or both depending on circumstances.
3) fine, imprisonment or both depending on circumstances.
And just for the record if a homeless family poaches a deer to keep from starving to death, I'm gonna have a hard time calling fish and game. Just saying.
1. Jacklighting deer (with intent/ability to shoot) - 5 Year License Suspension
2. Killing a deer out of season - 10 Year License Suspension
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer - 5 Year License Suspension
As for the folks trying to feed their families, operate undetected man!!!
I am not sure being more impoverished will help people not shoot deer for food and not being able to own a gun doesn't keep people from finding one, I am just trying to get people in camp to stop killing legal 6 month old deer. This kid was like, but "they are more tender", and since he lives close to the lease I am pretty sure it has been used like a meat grocery store year round, but the reality is 6 month old deer are so small that they don't produce very much meat, and when I think about 6 month old nubbin bucks that were conceived in the second rut taken before they can contribute and mature I want to pay more and push folks out of the club. I will age an old buck and marinate the loins and it provides plenty of tender meals, but this kid will want to shoot these deer until he is taught otherwise.
In Alaska fir Game Violation is easy!
For what you used to get you from home to the place of kill, Motor Home, trailer, Boat, ATV and all equipment including your Learjet will be confiscated on top of a hefty fine!
On a Alaska Sheep Hunt, They will weigh your meat and check every portion to make sure you even carried out the meat below the knee and if it doesn't add up for even the meat below the knee, they will helicopter you out to inspect the remains and you better hope a bear got it and don't tell them a bear got the meat when you brought the rack or horns out, they don't give a rip about your sniveling story!!!!
I know the penalities have increased I won't give them away(mostly because I don't remember them). Poching is a big problem here. Most poachers don't need the meat they shoot buck's for their heads(racks) and leave the rest to rot. Let the punishment fit the crime.
despite what I said earlier, let me say this. Don't judge others, as you also will be judged.
Some days I look at this and think that poachers should be punished harshly. Other days I step back and see how govermentized hunting has become, with all the laws and regulations. Daniel Boone and Davy Crocket would roll in their grave.
Number 1, jacklighting is illegal in our state, if caught, you lose the vehicle, firearm and jail time is a certainty, and you lose hunting privileges for up to 10 years, plus a hefty azzed fine.
Number 2, shooting a dear out of season is theft! Stolen from you and me, hunters who pay for a licenses and hunt game fairly. The same rules apply as Number 1.
Number 3, Same rules apply as Numbers 1 & 2. Really now, if you're stupid enough to say, hunt while jacklighting, and out of season, why the hell would you want to shoot more than one? You think the shots fired after the first one wasn't heard too? How many can you pack on your back at a time? If you're that big of a dufus, you deserve to be caught!! Numbers 1 & 2 apply here also!
However, like a lot of folks today being out of work, families to feed, the economy being what it is....... be smart, just shoot one, let me know where it is and I'll help you get it home!! I remember as a small lad, if the meat in the freezer hadn't been taken on the sly, God knows we'd have been hungry like these other folks portrayed in the 3 questions asked at the beginning of this blog. God forgive us all.
DEATH BY JACKLIGHT!
1)Take hunting license for 5 years and fine
2)Hefty fine
3)Take hunting license for 1 year
1. Jacklighting deer - 2 Year License Suspension
2. Killing a deer out of season - 5 Year License Suspension
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer - 2 Year License Suspension
People will pay fines and move on...taking away their privilege to hunt hurts so much more. Plus...if fines are to high and people don't have the money, then what's that really accomplish...
1) $1k, license revoked 1 year, 6 mon jail
2) $5k, license revoked 2 year, 1 year jail
3) $10k, license permanently revoked, 2 year jail
They should be put in a maximun security prison for the rest of thier lives, for all of the offenses.
In WV:
1.
1) fine $1000ish and loss of hunting and fishing privelages for 5-10 years
2)loss of hunting and fishing privelages for life fine of $5000-$10000ish
3)loss of hunting and fishing privelages for life fine of $30000 or more
all should include restitution costs based on the formulas used now. hopefully these offenses happen in a state in the interstate wildlife violator compact so they lose even more.
And just for the record if a homeless family poaches a deer to keep from starving to death i will have a hard time reporting them.
Jacklighting means spotlighting and killing right, because spotlighting is legal here...
jacklighting: $500 fine loss of hunting license 4years
deer out of season: i think it should multiply if in spring because its like killing potentially 3 deer. but also $500 loss of license for 3 years
Bag limit: cost of tag X11 loss of license 2years.
Repeat offenses should be double.
I know many offenders just end up hunting without a license which kind of just makes an even worse situation but it is a privilege and no license is a good reminder.
Jacklighting means spotlighting and killing right, because spotlighting is legal here...
jacklighting: $500 fine loss of hunting license 4years
deer out of season: i think it should multiply if in spring because its like killing potentially 3 deer. but also $500 loss of license for 3 years
Bag limit: cost of tag X11 loss of license 2years.
Repeat offenses should be double.
I know many offenders just end up hunting without a license which kind of just makes an even worse situation but it is a privilege and no license is a good reminder.
I really like the law we have in ohio where the larger the buck you poach the larger the fine you have to pay. Some deer are running 5 figures...
I try not to gudge people who are trying to feed their families. However the case may not be for food then I get really upset. More public hunting opportunities are needed. I do not condone such behavior I just wish we did more for the hungry than donate what we kill. for instance nusance deer kills that farmers shoot are not harvested and usually go to waste. We could do better.
If a deer is actually poached, it needs to be a felony. Besides any fine, a convicted felon cannot possess a firearm. They may switch to a bow, but will never legally own a gun. Misuse a firearm, loose the right to have one!!!!!
Jacklighting is a danger to the community at large and shows no respect for the lives and safety of others. They should be accorded the same fate as wifebeaters and violent offenders: loss of firearms ownership priviledges like other felons.
The other violations should have penalties like other game for exceeding bag limits and out of season. Nothing that sacred about a deer over a goose, for example.
I say bring back chain gangs. I hear swinging a pick and shovel along side of the road builds character.
Comparing back in the 70's & 80's are very different than now. I turned loose a few allowing them to keep the deer because the actually needed it for food. We scared them abit making them think we were taking them in,but we were instructed to handle it that way.
For today's violations, individuals caught rarely need the meat and driving expensive vehicles.
1. Jacklighting deer
AND
2. Killing a deer out of season
Confiscation of the vehicle and equipment used plus fine and jail.
As for 3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer?
Same as 1 & 2 provided it wasn't an accident, two deer with one shot. The Shooter must also report the two kills to prevent prosecution unless evidence proves otherwise. It happens to even the best, been dar witness dat!
Society operates more successfully with a few rules and or, regulations for the common cause. Since the perpetrator(s) were violating the law by taking something, he or she ought not only replace what they took, but made to serve the part of society that had their interests violated.
For example, one could best be prosecuted by helping and aiding the Department of Wildlife by talking to High School and College students, outdoor groups and enthusiasts about the inherent characteristics of violating game restrictions.
But first, a fine must be levied to pay the cost of the wildlife and time lost investigating and implementing such an unconventional penalty.
It seems that just a fine isn't enough to keep someone from violating the law, for example, a speeding ticket. But if someone had to humble themselves, and speak to the younger generation after studying the effects of their poor choices, it would "probably" sink in a little deeper not only to the speaker and violater, but to the up and coming outdoor enthusiasts.
There is an old latin phrase, "Praemonitus praemunitus" which translates to "Forewarned is Forearmed!"
Knowledge of imminent danger, breaking the law, taking something that doesn't belong to you, can prepare us, as well as younger people to overcome it, through preparation of both the heart and mind, through someone else's experience.
They say, "Knowledge is King," and it is, but e-x-p-er-i-e-n-c-e, first hand, personal experience, sometimes trumps knowledge.
Some minds, whether young or old, experience is "the" only teacher.
#1 5year lose of licens n 2 years jail time
#2 lose hunting N fishing licens for life
#3 same as #1
do the crime do the time
$250 fine, restitution for the animal and permanent loss of hunting privileges. I did a little checking and it appears that the old "I was only trying to feed my family" routine is without merit. Today there is no place in this country that aid cannot be found, from the largest city to the poorest village in the remote mountainous areas of our Nation. Even if a person is an illegal alien they can get food stuffs and medical treatment just for the asking. The food stuffs will not be venison, nor the medical treatment from one of the big Hospitals (most likely a free clinic), but it's there for the asking, and no one needs to resort to poaching unless they enjoy putting one over on the local conservation officer, or wants to put forward an image of himself as the poor downtrodden woodsman self supporting his poor family. Poaching is Poaching - Stealing is Stealing.
Deepwoods
I agree with you that "stealing is stealing", period!
In an attempt to make a bit of mad money, I applied at a world known retail outlet. In my recall interview, I was asked why I stated "It depends" on whether I would report an employee stealing.
My reply was, "If JoeBob just started working for the company, was broke and hungry, and snatched a candy bar, I ain't saying nothing! If Fred was stealing computers to sell, to me that's different!"
I was informed that there are NO degrees of theft, just theft!
A kid that went to work the same time I did, was fired about 6 months later.
Seems he and his wife both worked at this joint, but still didn't make that much money. He would go to the grocery end of the store, grab an item or two out of the bent can bin to eat! They were just going to throw it out, but they terminated him for theft!
Bubba
Interesting range of opinions here. If you're honest with yourself, you've screwed up a time or two in your life. To learn from it, it's gotta hurt. But everyone deserves a second chance. Repeat offenders are the ones who should have their trigger fingers cut off and spend some time in jail.
Whackdaddy's first post seemed to be praised for what I think was copping out on the question at hand ? Not that his opinion should be tossed aside but somewhere down the line, a penalty should be addressed...to POACHING ! If there are no penalties why have a license ? why hunt within regulated seasons or in daylight ? What does it take to really answer the question ? Out of line is out of line and yes Whackdaddy maiming is out of line so really, Whackdaddy I am interested in your opinion about those three questions as they pertain to everybodys property and we are there to keep their numbers in check, legally. It would not take to many free-for-alls to screw up something hunters have worked very hard on over the past 60yrs. Bottom line someone has to pay, the sportsman has been paying all along, should not the criminal ?
Jacklighting and killing a deer out of season are very different from exceeding the bag limit in my opinion. Anyone participating in Jacklighting or killing a deer out of season has to be aware that they are breaking the law, however a person might exceed the bag limit by
(1) killing more than one deer with one shot
(2) multiple shots thinking that they are shooting at the same deer when in fact they are shooting at different deer, as in shoot, wounded deer runs, see deer in distance, think it is same one previously wounded, shoot again, kill deer, find first deer and second deer dead. This can easily occur especially when doe hunting, as no rack to differentiate size or form.
The difference in this case is whether or not the hunter in question reports the facts or just sneaks the extra deer home.
1- If there is a firearm in the vehicle then 1k fine(attempted to kill loss of privleges for 3 years.
2-$3,000 fine for each deer and loss of hunting privliges for 1 season for each deer killed out of season.
3-$3,000 fine for each deer and loss of hunting privliges for 1 season for each deer over the limit.
You asked for it: My next article is going to be about Louis Vuitton handbags.
Concerning those Vuitton handbags, do you like them with a short or long shoulder strap? A leather strap or gold chain? Just kidding!!!!!!!!!
1. Jacklighting deer = If it’s just spotlighting... I’d say a fine $100 range. If there is a (projectile launching apparatus of any type in the vehicle) potato gun, harpoon gun, air gun, .270, crossbow, blow gun what have you, then they perpetrator should forfeit that weapon+ a hefty fine $2000ish. If they have killed a deer or shots have been fired (attempted to kill) then vehicle and weapon should be lost, larger fine (I like the pay by the inch rule for bucks) loss of 3 years+ of hunting privileges, community service and maybe a night or two in the county lockup.
2. Killing a deer out of season = Large fine $2000+, Pay by the inch for bucks, loss of weapon used, loss of hunting privileges for upcoming seasons.
3. Exceeding the bag limit for deer = $500 per deer ($1000 for a buck + pay by the inch rule) and one or two less tags for the following season
I know there could be a lot of what “if’s” put into these but this is a quick “rough” assessment. I like pay by the inch, you kill a 170” class deer then…. 170x $20 per inch= $3,400 on top of a base amount.
Take the license, vehicle and weapon along with a fine that equals the value of the game.
Lifetime loss of trophy room bragging rights, 3-5 years loss of hunting/fishing rights, confiscation of truck and guns used in offense. These are actual punishments in Arkansas.
My first instinct is to say hang em high, but even I think that might be a little excessive. I think it should be different from state to state depending on the harm. Where deer are jumping out in front of vehicles like luv bugs on the Florida Turnpike, maybe the fines don't need to be as high as places where the deer are scarce. But wrong is still wrong--jacklighting is the worst of the three--take the hunting license on the first offense--maybe cut off the trigger fingers for a second offense--both of em--one for the light & one for the gun. LOL
Scott, as a former Military Game Warden, Civilians were tried in County Court and chances are the Judge happens to be a friend of a friend or worst yet, next of Kin! They don't take to kindly messing with dar Kin Folks, know what I'm saying dar Vern!!!
I think that the fines should not be as rediculous as some of you have been saying, this is a deer for gosh sakes, if it's a trophy make the fine stiffer and if not then minimal. If you used a gun then loss of the weapon used to commit the crime, and a loss of 1 years privileges. Most people will learn after one time, we don't give stiif sentences to drug dealers and wife beaters as bad as some of you want to give poachers. No felonies, that hurts persons chances of holding down jobs to feed their families, if they can't afford it then they can't so why destroy their life over a deer. they have a family don't peanalize their wife and kids. be compassionate and take care of one another, a good rule to live with.
Any of the 3 would be illegally taking a deer. In Iowa its $1500 restitution for a doe, and up to a max. of $20,000 for a trophy buck, depending on the size. They will also pay hefty fines,lose weapons and vehicles, and lose hunting priveliges in all states in the compact for at least 3 years.
I agree with Clay Cooper. Alittle jail time and confiscation of equipment would be a good deturrent.
Seriously, you can't get some people to pay a ten dollar seat belt ticket, and plenty of people drive every day with no license or after it has been suspended or revoked.
Loss of rifle, vehicle and or reasonable jail time would be more realistic punishments.
I have often thought on this topic and others will probably disagree, but tag the fine to double what the game farms are charging. A cull, with a score less than 125 would end up about $5k, a score of 180 plus could end up close to $40k plus loss of firearm or bow and if a vehicle was used in the crime ... confiscate it. Oh also make it a felony.
First time offence, clear record, stupid AZZ mistake, JACKLIGHT W/Weapon including up to Straw & Pea or Rubberband & paperclip = 3 days solitary confinement, no phone call, $1200.00 fine, all weapons confiscated, loss of license for 3yrs in all 50 states, 400 hrs community service serving @ orphanage or V.A. Hosp. KILLING OUT OF SEASON = 3 days solitary confinement no phone call, 90 days in jail, confiscation of all equipment except shirt, pants, socks., loss of game, $10,000.00 fine, loss of all hunting & fishing in that state + 3yrs in any other states, 1000 hrs of wearing sandwich board stating that he or she is a poacher in front of local schools. EXCEEDING BAG LIMIT FOR DEER = $1000.00 or $100.00 a pound for doe & fawn which ever is more, $2500.00 or $200.00 a pound for 8pt or less which ever is more, $1000.00 per point + $250.00 per pound on 9pt + and loss of game, loss of license for following year in all 50 states, 200 hrs community state park service. It could be worse, I thought I was reasonable ?
stealing is stealing. If someone stole grocery from the grocery store an was caught,they would go to jail the law don't care if the family was hungry.
the penalty should be the same as whatever your states classify as theft.
First Bubba
I like the scaffold idea. You'll only have to hang one.
deerwhacker40. I am not trying to start any argument and I am not judging you, I am just kind of annoyed I guess you can say at your "its just a deer comment". A deer is an animal and it should be treated that way. It breathes just like all of us and our families. If its "just a deer" then is your dad "just a dad"? What if someone murdered him would he be just a dad? No you love him and respect him. And you should respect deer. I know that comparison isn't on the same caliber but I think you understand where im coming from. Anyway throw them in jail and let em suffer for the rest of their lifes
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