


January 20, 2011
SHOT Show 2011: A New Bear Rifle From Savage
by David E. Petzal
About the Interview: The Bear Rifle is a .325 WSM thumper that can handle a lot more than bruins. I had a chance to discuss this gun and Savage's new direction with Bill Dermody.
Comments (43)
Will the 325 WSM work on Grizzly especially for Brown Bear? I'll take my 338 Win Mag with 250 grain Nosler Partitions. I've put my boot in the rear paw print of one Grizzly near Chicken AK. The tips of the claws extended a good 4 inches past my toe.
Bottom line,
All the firepower in the world is useless if you cannot accurately within milliseconds place the shot, recover instantly to repeatedly give additional shots accurately.
Food for thought, with today's ammunition technology etc, the 325 WSM just might do the job and give back change. Kinda hard for us Old School Outdoorsmen to break old traditions.
What the fella is trying to say, it's easier for a company that mass produces many products can afford to retool for another product. What makes many products more expensive is the retooling and place to manufacture etc, it isn't cheap!
I liked his definition of "High end"...meaning function, not aesthetics, AMEN.,...and that they can do it at an entry level price point is outstanding and encouraging for new hunters/shooters.
I don't own and have never shot a Savage, but I think I'll give them a try.
my dads shotgun is a savage 67 e and it aint pretty but its accutet i killed my first deer with it. i think savage guns are the best only second to henry
With all respect " What Clay Said"
While I'm sure it will kill bears, so will a .30-30. It is not a bear rifle. One needs to "Use Enought Gun". A .325 isn't. They should have gone with a larger bore.
I wonder why they picked this one when there are so many better choices for a "Bear Rifle".
I think the visual appeal of Savage rifles is getting right up there. My 116 is nice looking rifle in my opinion. It's the first one I have ever owned and I would have no qualms about buying another.
MG
Average range of a bear? Take the 30 WSM and punch it out to 35, 375 or perhaps 418, 458 perhaps maybe to big???? Maybe not?? Interesting thought, but what the hell do I know about up close and personal in Alaska! I wished I had a dollar for every time I thought I craped my pants!
A 30-06 loaded a little hot with a quality bullet would be just as effective. When I hear bear gun I think of 300 or 338 RUM, 416 Remington,458 Lott, something if you only get one good shot off it will go down, period.
I came to firearms later in life so I am still enamored with classic lever, pump and bolt action styles which are as timeless of design to me as a Gibson Les Paul, a Fender Stratocaster or many of the classic cars such as Mustangs and Camaros. I find the trend towards "black" rifles disconcerting on an aesthetic basis, although I hold no grudge against their use (don't want to suffer the fate as Mr. Zumbo). I've noticed Remington has cut back on many calibers for their bolt actions and Savage has discontinued a lot of models I was interested in (the slug rifle and the muzzleloaders of which I am fully aware of the problems associated with the later) for what I consider to be ugly laminate rifles with bad lines. Hope I get enough do-re-me saved up before Ruger discontinues the No.1. Hard to find their .44 lever action, might need to go the Winchester 88 route as a Sako Finnwolf is too expensive and I prefer American made items when possible. I never aspired to be Buck Rogers (just John Wayne). My 2 cents which has proved over time to be worth just that! Must be getting olddd....
When it comes to bear I'll take a larger diameter bullet over velocity anyday.
Looks nice. Not sure if it would be considered "The" Bear Rifle, since many other calibers would do as well, maybe better.
But Savage is making some accurate guns at a good price point. Glad to see an American maker doing well.
Also from the video it's good to see DP "cleans up" pretty well too. :)
Savage Co. seems to have it's pulse on what rifleman want, and they make their guns at a very affordable price, to boot!
As for the .325 WSM,if comparing it to the .338 win mag is the issue, the .325 should be able to hold it's own as far as ballistics go , but the .338 has a proven kill record in the field. SO, will the .325 stick around long enough on the market to be tested in the field, who knows? As far as Savage chambering this model in the .325 caliber, I think it was a good choice!
Dave does clean up rather well, but did anyone else notice he kind of resembles one of those bobble head dolls in the video? Just saying...
I am really glad to see Savage succeeding in an economy like this. I think they have figured out how to make cheap accurate rifles better than anyone. One day I hope to own another. I had one of their .22/.410 OU's once upon a time. It was my favorite gun as a kid.
The White Slug and Ralph the Rifleman makes an excellent case and point!
Will these exotic cartridges be around 5,7 or 10 years down the road?
if the .325 WSM is such a hot rifle, then why did the 8mm Remington Magnum drop out of the race so fast?
I'll stick to my Alaska tried and proven 338 Win Mag thank you!
Owning a 338 Win Mag and stepping down to a .325 WSM feels like I'm stepping down to a 338-06
Just so everyine knows the Model 16 Bear Hunter is the short action and available in 300WSM and 325 WSM. The Model 116 Bear Hunter is available in both 300 Win and 338 Win Magnums. Both models have the 23 in barrel and weigh 7 3/4 lbs. I never have shot a rifle above .300 Win Mag or at a bear. But I would rather have a larger bullet, but I think the .325 WSM would get it done. Clay I agree with you and wonder if the caliber will even be around in the next 5-7 years or any of the WSMs for that matter.
Thanks Clay. Can I come over for some venison tenderloin (skunked this year) and some hand loads? I'll try to be as unobstrusive as possible. Forgive the big words. Mr. Petzal is getting inside my head. Fine writers have that effect (hopefully). We have to fight the degradation of our language via text messaging with every fiber of our souls.
PS Any of you hardcore folks ever see or shoot a .30-378 Weatherby magnum? I was on a job and the client had the rifle for which the shells were immense. Looked them up and they were .338 Lapua priced, around $2 and up per shell. I read that it's the fastest 30 caliber bullet in the world? It doesn't count if any of you say you floss with that caliber.
Excuse me $6 dollars per shell.
I have fired a .30-.378 Weatherby in a custom Remington 700 action with no muzzle brake. Quite the sensation. I shot a .300 RUM at the range in October in a 26" Rem 700 SPS rifle. Not too bad, but more than I care to deal with long term.
What am i missing here, The 325 WSM is a .338 gun with a short throw on the bolt. Yes, maybe a 458 Lott can kill a bear with one shot but if I am on the ground trying to relocate my shoulder and there are two bears what am I to do. Ballistics wise the 325 and 338 are close and the 338 has a proven record, short bolt throw with a proven caliber's power good choice savage
little bit smaller than the .338 in diameter; but, as said, with a good homogenous-partition-bonded bullet, shouldn't be a problem. However, an old quote that I know not the origine of; "Alot of rounds will kill an elephant, but very few will stop one!". Might have been Karamojo (killed 100+ elephants with a .256 Mannlicher) who said it first, idk, but the philosophy is sound nonetheless. In terms of ballistics, they seem fairly close; I guess only time will tell.
The .325 may fall a hair shy of the terminal performance of a .338 winmag, is only .015mm shy of the diameter of the .338 (.323 vs .338) and may not quite reach the speed and trajectory of the .300winmag, but it's so close I doubt any bear would know the difference.
I'm slinging a 200gr Barnes TSX out of mine at just under 3k fps. It's flattened a lot of hogs, from 300lbs down. It's also knocked the tar out of a scimitar-horned oryx. Haven't shot a bear with it, and probably won't, but there's no question it's completely on par with the .338... which, as someone pointed out, is also available in the new Black Bear Hunter if that's what you prefer.
I shot the .300winmag version of the Black Bear Hunter on Monday, and played with the brake, turning it on and off. It's a really nicely designed rifle, it shoots like a dream, and with the brake turned off, it's no worse than any other magnum rifle for noise and recoil. With the brake on, it's loud as hell, but the recoil falls to a very bearable force.
To all to whom the .325 WSM is an abomination: This rifle is also available in .338 Winchester Magnum, it just goes by model 116 Bear Hunter.
@ The White Slug: A number of years ago, a good friend of mine had me try out his Mk V Accumark in .30-378. At the time, the in-store price for ammo worked out to about $4.50 per round. The rifle came standard with an Accubrake, but he didn't like the dust blowback in his eyes, and took it off. He had a target set up on the edge of his woods 100 yards away, and stated that I should hit 1" high. I squeezed it off, hit 1" high, and wound up with a respectable scope cut. I immediately wanted one of these (so I could leave my own damn brake on), but have yet to make my purchase. Someday...
They have a great business plan, and its terrific to see the marketing manager understands the operating principle. The breadth of their products reach a broad scale of the shooting community, and the backbone of it is affordability and quality, which will drive volume. Nice suit Dave.
Thanks.
I'll keep my .375 H&H thank you very much
HogBlog
While your pushing a 220 at 2706 fps
IMR 4831 66.0C 2706 54,900 PSI
______________________________________
I'm thumping a 250 Grain Nosler Partition at 2816
IMR4350 70.0C
The #1 choice of cartridge by Alaska Residents is the 338 Win Mag.
Shooting Black Bear with any cartridge larger that 30-06 with a 165 is a joke!
Go to Alaska with the Big Boys, I'll bet you will scrambling for something bigger than a .325 WSM.
By the way, 325 WSM 200 grain at 3000 fps? How about a 338 Win Mag 225 at 3000 fps.
Bottom line,
If I was going to shoot a 325WSM, I'll use a 300 Win Mag, but I still prefer my 338 Win Mag over the 300 Win Mag.
Black Bear?
Magnum Rifle?
I'm comfortable using my 25-06 LOL!
Moishe
Doesn't it feel great being in the woods able to shoot through a tree and still hit what your aiming at on the other side!
i did just fine with my '06, .300 win mag, and weatherby .270 mag in alaska.
Maybe if they can sell enough Bear Guns they can save the .325 WSM. I don't see it living any longer than any other 8mm cartridge has in the US.
Bee
10-4
I'll Second it
.325 I just feel like I have to really push it to extremes just to get 338 Win Mag basic performance.
Kinda like taking the Super Match AR15's (Poor Mans Match Rifle) loaded with a 70 grain bullet trying to get the 600 yard performance of either a Match Grade M14, M1A or M1 Garand.
I'll stick with the .338 Win Mag, thanks just the same.
For those newcomers to this blog has mentioned, Yes, Dave does clean up well. But what you don't know is a couple years ago, at the Shot Show, Dave actually smiled.
I think a booth babe may have been standing next to him, I forget.
FirstBubba is right,
Bill C. usta say, "The only reason they make magnums is so the Cajuns in south Louisiana can feel pain and hear noise when they pull the trigger!"
I don't know much, but I know I am not going for brown or grizzly bear with a .30/06. The ONLY .30 cal I would consider would possibly be .30/378. A .325 WSM seems like a pretty light dose of medicine for something that might want to eat me after I pissed him off. My vote: .338 Win or larger.
FNG, Who was the ivory collector in Africa who killed so many elephants with a 7X57 and 175 gr solids? Suppossed to have killed more elephants than any other person? Just askin,,
savage is just an all around great gun brand
I'm sure that this new round will do a bear, just like anything else will if the shot is good. But personally I'll use a larger bullet if I think a cranky bear might be hunting me. Thankfully the little black bears in Arizona are not usually cranky, but for them a .30 will typically do the trick. Still, a new plus .30 round isn't a bad thing, elk and all else factored in.
I find it funny how someone will say, I need that big cannon and I'll be using my ol'trusty 44 Mag!
The physics of the universe just don't add up in this equation!
_________________________________________________
For Black Bear 30-30 with a 150 will do just fine!
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
A .325 is not quite a .338, but it doesn't kick as hard either. If I could afford to hunt brown bears in Alaska, I'd give the .325 some thought. The lightweight .300 Win Mag I used to hunt with and the .338s I've shot kicked pretty hard even before my eye and shoulder problems. For a guy like me, who only has old-timey lever actions in soft-kicking .30-30 and .35 Rem, the .325 is an elephant gun. Maybe it's a good thing I plan on staying home.
Post a Comment
Maybe if they can sell enough Bear Guns they can save the .325 WSM. I don't see it living any longer than any other 8mm cartridge has in the US.
I came to firearms later in life so I am still enamored with classic lever, pump and bolt action styles which are as timeless of design to me as a Gibson Les Paul, a Fender Stratocaster or many of the classic cars such as Mustangs and Camaros. I find the trend towards "black" rifles disconcerting on an aesthetic basis, although I hold no grudge against their use (don't want to suffer the fate as Mr. Zumbo). I've noticed Remington has cut back on many calibers for their bolt actions and Savage has discontinued a lot of models I was interested in (the slug rifle and the muzzleloaders of which I am fully aware of the problems associated with the later) for what I consider to be ugly laminate rifles with bad lines. Hope I get enough do-re-me saved up before Ruger discontinues the No.1. Hard to find their .44 lever action, might need to go the Winchester 88 route as a Sako Finnwolf is too expensive and I prefer American made items when possible. I never aspired to be Buck Rogers (just John Wayne). My 2 cents which has proved over time to be worth just that! Must be getting olddd....
Savage Co. seems to have it's pulse on what rifleman want, and they make their guns at a very affordable price, to boot!
As for the .325 WSM,if comparing it to the .338 win mag is the issue, the .325 should be able to hold it's own as far as ballistics go , but the .338 has a proven kill record in the field. SO, will the .325 stick around long enough on the market to be tested in the field, who knows? As far as Savage chambering this model in the .325 caliber, I think it was a good choice!
Dave does clean up rather well, but did anyone else notice he kind of resembles one of those bobble head dolls in the video? Just saying...
I am really glad to see Savage succeeding in an economy like this. I think they have figured out how to make cheap accurate rifles better than anyone. One day I hope to own another. I had one of their .22/.410 OU's once upon a time. It was my favorite gun as a kid.
Thanks Clay. Can I come over for some venison tenderloin (skunked this year) and some hand loads? I'll try to be as unobstrusive as possible. Forgive the big words. Mr. Petzal is getting inside my head. Fine writers have that effect (hopefully). We have to fight the degradation of our language via text messaging with every fiber of our souls.
I'll keep my .375 H&H thank you very much
I liked his definition of "High end"...meaning function, not aesthetics, AMEN.,...and that they can do it at an entry level price point is outstanding and encouraging for new hunters/shooters.
I don't own and have never shot a Savage, but I think I'll give them a try.
my dads shotgun is a savage 67 e and it aint pretty but its accutet i killed my first deer with it. i think savage guns are the best only second to henry
With all respect " What Clay Said"
While I'm sure it will kill bears, so will a .30-30. It is not a bear rifle. One needs to "Use Enought Gun". A .325 isn't. They should have gone with a larger bore.
I wonder why they picked this one when there are so many better choices for a "Bear Rifle".
I think the visual appeal of Savage rifles is getting right up there. My 116 is nice looking rifle in my opinion. It's the first one I have ever owned and I would have no qualms about buying another.
A 30-06 loaded a little hot with a quality bullet would be just as effective. When I hear bear gun I think of 300 or 338 RUM, 416 Remington,458 Lott, something if you only get one good shot off it will go down, period.
Looks nice. Not sure if it would be considered "The" Bear Rifle, since many other calibers would do as well, maybe better.
But Savage is making some accurate guns at a good price point. Glad to see an American maker doing well.
Also from the video it's good to see DP "cleans up" pretty well too. :)
Just so everyine knows the Model 16 Bear Hunter is the short action and available in 300WSM and 325 WSM. The Model 116 Bear Hunter is available in both 300 Win and 338 Win Magnums. Both models have the 23 in barrel and weigh 7 3/4 lbs. I never have shot a rifle above .300 Win Mag or at a bear. But I would rather have a larger bullet, but I think the .325 WSM would get it done. Clay I agree with you and wonder if the caliber will even be around in the next 5-7 years or any of the WSMs for that matter.
PS Any of you hardcore folks ever see or shoot a .30-378 Weatherby magnum? I was on a job and the client had the rifle for which the shells were immense. Looked them up and they were .338 Lapua priced, around $2 and up per shell. I read that it's the fastest 30 caliber bullet in the world? It doesn't count if any of you say you floss with that caliber.
Excuse me $6 dollars per shell.
What am i missing here, The 325 WSM is a .338 gun with a short throw on the bolt. Yes, maybe a 458 Lott can kill a bear with one shot but if I am on the ground trying to relocate my shoulder and there are two bears what am I to do. Ballistics wise the 325 and 338 are close and the 338 has a proven record, short bolt throw with a proven caliber's power good choice savage
The .325 may fall a hair shy of the terminal performance of a .338 winmag, is only .015mm shy of the diameter of the .338 (.323 vs .338) and may not quite reach the speed and trajectory of the .300winmag, but it's so close I doubt any bear would know the difference.
I'm slinging a 200gr Barnes TSX out of mine at just under 3k fps. It's flattened a lot of hogs, from 300lbs down. It's also knocked the tar out of a scimitar-horned oryx. Haven't shot a bear with it, and probably won't, but there's no question it's completely on par with the .338... which, as someone pointed out, is also available in the new Black Bear Hunter if that's what you prefer.
I shot the .300winmag version of the Black Bear Hunter on Monday, and played with the brake, turning it on and off. It's a really nicely designed rifle, it shoots like a dream, and with the brake turned off, it's no worse than any other magnum rifle for noise and recoil. With the brake on, it's loud as hell, but the recoil falls to a very bearable force.
To all to whom the .325 WSM is an abomination: This rifle is also available in .338 Winchester Magnum, it just goes by model 116 Bear Hunter.
@ The White Slug: A number of years ago, a good friend of mine had me try out his Mk V Accumark in .30-378. At the time, the in-store price for ammo worked out to about $4.50 per round. The rifle came standard with an Accubrake, but he didn't like the dust blowback in his eyes, and took it off. He had a target set up on the edge of his woods 100 yards away, and stated that I should hit 1" high. I squeezed it off, hit 1" high, and wound up with a respectable scope cut. I immediately wanted one of these (so I could leave my own damn brake on), but have yet to make my purchase. Someday...
They have a great business plan, and its terrific to see the marketing manager understands the operating principle. The breadth of their products reach a broad scale of the shooting community, and the backbone of it is affordability and quality, which will drive volume. Nice suit Dave.
Thanks.
i did just fine with my '06, .300 win mag, and weatherby .270 mag in alaska.
Bee
10-4
I'll stick with the .338 Win Mag, thanks just the same.
For those newcomers to this blog has mentioned, Yes, Dave does clean up well. But what you don't know is a couple years ago, at the Shot Show, Dave actually smiled.
I think a booth babe may have been standing next to him, I forget.
savage is just an all around great gun brand
Will the 325 WSM work on Grizzly especially for Brown Bear? I'll take my 338 Win Mag with 250 grain Nosler Partitions. I've put my boot in the rear paw print of one Grizzly near Chicken AK. The tips of the claws extended a good 4 inches past my toe.
Bottom line,
All the firepower in the world is useless if you cannot accurately within milliseconds place the shot, recover instantly to repeatedly give additional shots accurately.
Food for thought, with today's ammunition technology etc, the 325 WSM just might do the job and give back change. Kinda hard for us Old School Outdoorsmen to break old traditions.
What the fella is trying to say, it's easier for a company that mass produces many products can afford to retool for another product. What makes many products more expensive is the retooling and place to manufacture etc, it isn't cheap!
MG
Average range of a bear? Take the 30 WSM and punch it out to 35, 375 or perhaps 418, 458 perhaps maybe to big???? Maybe not?? Interesting thought, but what the hell do I know about up close and personal in Alaska! I wished I had a dollar for every time I thought I craped my pants!
When it comes to bear I'll take a larger diameter bullet over velocity anyday.
The White Slug and Ralph the Rifleman makes an excellent case and point!
Will these exotic cartridges be around 5,7 or 10 years down the road?
if the .325 WSM is such a hot rifle, then why did the 8mm Remington Magnum drop out of the race so fast?
I'll stick to my Alaska tried and proven 338 Win Mag thank you!
Owning a 338 Win Mag and stepping down to a .325 WSM feels like I'm stepping down to a 338-06
I have fired a .30-.378 Weatherby in a custom Remington 700 action with no muzzle brake. Quite the sensation. I shot a .300 RUM at the range in October in a 26" Rem 700 SPS rifle. Not too bad, but more than I care to deal with long term.
little bit smaller than the .338 in diameter; but, as said, with a good homogenous-partition-bonded bullet, shouldn't be a problem. However, an old quote that I know not the origine of; "Alot of rounds will kill an elephant, but very few will stop one!". Might have been Karamojo (killed 100+ elephants with a .256 Mannlicher) who said it first, idk, but the philosophy is sound nonetheless. In terms of ballistics, they seem fairly close; I guess only time will tell.
HogBlog
While your pushing a 220 at 2706 fps
IMR 4831 66.0C 2706 54,900 PSI
______________________________________
I'm thumping a 250 Grain Nosler Partition at 2816
IMR4350 70.0C
The #1 choice of cartridge by Alaska Residents is the 338 Win Mag.
Shooting Black Bear with any cartridge larger that 30-06 with a 165 is a joke!
Go to Alaska with the Big Boys, I'll bet you will scrambling for something bigger than a .325 WSM.
By the way, 325 WSM 200 grain at 3000 fps? How about a 338 Win Mag 225 at 3000 fps.
Bottom line,
If I was going to shoot a 325WSM, I'll use a 300 Win Mag, but I still prefer my 338 Win Mag over the 300 Win Mag.
Black Bear?
Magnum Rifle?
I'm comfortable using my 25-06 LOL!
Moishe
Doesn't it feel great being in the woods able to shoot through a tree and still hit what your aiming at on the other side!
I'll Second it
.325 I just feel like I have to really push it to extremes just to get 338 Win Mag basic performance.
Kinda like taking the Super Match AR15's (Poor Mans Match Rifle) loaded with a 70 grain bullet trying to get the 600 yard performance of either a Match Grade M14, M1A or M1 Garand.
FirstBubba is right,
Bill C. usta say, "The only reason they make magnums is so the Cajuns in south Louisiana can feel pain and hear noise when they pull the trigger!"
I don't know much, but I know I am not going for brown or grizzly bear with a .30/06. The ONLY .30 cal I would consider would possibly be .30/378. A .325 WSM seems like a pretty light dose of medicine for something that might want to eat me after I pissed him off. My vote: .338 Win or larger.
FNG, Who was the ivory collector in Africa who killed so many elephants with a 7X57 and 175 gr solids? Suppossed to have killed more elephants than any other person? Just askin,,
I'm sure that this new round will do a bear, just like anything else will if the shot is good. But personally I'll use a larger bullet if I think a cranky bear might be hunting me. Thankfully the little black bears in Arizona are not usually cranky, but for them a .30 will typically do the trick. Still, a new plus .30 round isn't a bad thing, elk and all else factored in.
I find it funny how someone will say, I need that big cannon and I'll be using my ol'trusty 44 Mag!
The physics of the universe just don't add up in this equation!
_________________________________________________
For Black Bear 30-30 with a 150 will do just fine!
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
A .325 is not quite a .338, but it doesn't kick as hard either. If I could afford to hunt brown bears in Alaska, I'd give the .325 some thought. The lightweight .300 Win Mag I used to hunt with and the .338s I've shot kicked pretty hard even before my eye and shoulder problems. For a guy like me, who only has old-timey lever actions in soft-kicking .30-30 and .35 Rem, the .325 is an elephant gun. Maybe it's a good thing I plan on staying home.
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