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Fly Fishing

Relatively new to fly fishing

Uploaded on April 27, 2009

I have been fly fishing for about a year now and absolutely love it, and have gotten the hang of casting and presentation finally. I hook trout all the time, but I am doing something wrong I think. I can only reel them in succesfully about 30% of the time. I usually get the fish to about 5 feet or so from me and they get off. I know to keep the rod tip high so that the bend in the rod absorbs the shock of the fighting fish, but alas i think I am still doing something a tad wrong. Does anyone have some advice or pointers on how to properly reel in a trout on a fly rod?
Thanks,
Ken

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Don't reel them, hand strip the line in, and make sure the barbs on you're hook are good, plus make sure to set the hook good.

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Hi Ken,
From the little that you have included in your plea for hrlp, I have some bits of advice:
1) Don't horse them in.
I don't know if you are just reeling the fish in, and not playing the fish. It is important to tire, NOT EXHAUST THEM...If you want to release them. If you exhaust the fish (regardless of the species), chance are you will kill it.
The idea is to tire the fish out QUICKLY, then reel them in. One day (please note that I did not say, "One day grasshopper..."), when you get more experience, you will be able to feel when the fish is tiring.
2) You may be wondering how to tire the fish out quickly. Number one: Four words....Bow To The Fish! By that I mean; When the fish starts to to run, when you are reeling it in, and your rod tip is high, immediately drop the tip and point it towards the fish. What happens is the fish will slow down and "relax" (if that is possible with a hook in your snout), when it feels no pressure. It will ususally find a calm spot to lie and rest.
Then start angling the rod to the side, so that it slowly pulls the fish into the current, if you are in a stream. If you are in a lake or the ocean, just keep pressure on the fish by changing the rod's position, and raising your rod.
3) May sure that your hooks are sharp, so you can get a good set of your hook. Check your hook often. The best way to do this, drag point over your fingernail. If it sticks, it is sharp...If it doesn't...Get a good, small hook sharpener, and keep in on your vest.
By using these techniques, in a surpisingly short amount of time, the fish will tire, and you will have a lot less problems landing your fish.
I have been fly fishing for 40 years, and a lot of my knowledge was learned at the "College of Hard Knocks"! I was extremely fortunate to have Lefty Kreh as one of my mentors. I suggest that you get a great, short book that Lefty wrote "Lefty Kreh's 101 Fly Fishing Tips". It is a treasure!
Good luck Ken!

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Hi Ken,
From the little that you have included in your plea for hrlp, I have some bits of advice:
1) Don't horse them in.
I don't know if you are just reeling the fish in, and not playing the fish. There is more than keeping your rod tip high. It is important to tire the fish out, but NOT EXHAUST THEM...If you want to release them that is. If you exhaust the fish (regardless of the species), chances are you will kill it.
The idea is to tire the fish out QUICKLY, then reel them in, resuscitate.
One day (please note that I did not say, "One day grasshopper..."), when you get more experience, you will be able to feel when the fish is tiring.
2) You may be wondering how to tire the fish out quickly. Number one: Four words....Bow To The Fish! By that I mean; When the fish starts to to run, when you are reeling it in, and your rod tip is high, immediately drop the tip and point it towards the fish. What happens is the fish will slow down and "relax" (if that is possible with a hook in your snout), when it feels no pressure. It will ususally find a calm spot to lie and rest.
Then, start angling the rod from side to side, so that it slowly pulls the fish's head into the current, if you are in a stream. If you are in a lake or the ocean, just keep pressure on the fish by changing the rod's position, and raising your rod.
3) May sure that your hooks are sharp, so you can get a good set of your hook. Check your hook often. The best way to do this, drag point over your fingernail. If it sticks, it is sharp...If it doesn't...Get a good, small hook sharpener, and keep in on your vest. It is hard to explain, so I will refer you to this website: http://books.google.com/books?id=j8c3Sklaz4AC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=sharpe... . It is a very long address, but it will take you to Google's Book Search for Lefty Kreh's book "Lefty Kreh's Presenting the Fly" By Lefty Kreh, Rod Walinchus. LEFTY IS THE FLY FISHING GOD/GURU!
By using these techniques, in a surpisingly short amount of time, the fish will tire, and you will have a lot less problems landing your fish.
I have been fly fishing for 40 years, and a lot of my knowledge was learned at the "College of Hard Knocks"! But, I was extremely fortunate to have Lefty as one of my mentors. I suggest that you get a great, short book that Lefty wrote "Lefty Kreh's 101 Fly Fishing Tips". It is a treasure!
Good luck Ken! If you have any more questions, write me.

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Regarding Alex Pernice the fly rod winner's advice:
"Don't reel them, hand strip the line in, and make sure the barbs on you're hook are good, plus make sure to set the hook good."

With all due respect, it makes me wonder if Alex has ever caught a big fish, and I am not talking about a sailfish! I am talking about a 16"+ trout, bonefish, or smallmouth bass. It is a fact if you are fighting a large fish and hand stipping it in, while fight it, the chances of losing the fish are very high.

The main reason for this is: when you are hand stripping a fish in, and the fish takes off running, most people will let the line run through their fingers, with some pressure on the line. When you do this, it cause friction; Or, if you hit a dry spot on the line, it will stop the line...And Bingo, No more fish.

The other "friction issue" with hand stipping when fighting a big fish like a steelhead is trying to maintain control, or slow the fish down. When a steelhead takes off after you hook it and set the hook, they take off like a torpedo! If you are letting that line scream through your fingers, you will have a bad "rope burn" on your fingers...It hurt reel bad Mon...I'll guar-on-tee it!

In today's market, you can buy a very good reel with a good, adjustable, and most of all SMOOTH drag system that won't cost you an arm and a leg. With these reels you can let the run and you can control the pressure without grabbing the line. Inexpensive reels with palm drags are work well too. Just make sure that you dip your palm into the water every once and a while, to keep the pressure smooth.

It is a good idea to reel in all slack line and play the fish with you reel and rod. That is what they are made for.

The other thing about Alex's reponse that has been debunked by professional anglers, with far more experience than I, is his issue about barbs. A sharp hook if far more important than a barb. I will refer both of you, Ken, and Alex to page 39, starting at the fourth paragraph in Lefty Kreh's book "Lefty Kreh's Presenting the Fly" (the Google website is: http://books.google.com/books?id=j8c3Sklaz4AC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=sharpe... .

Another thing about fly casting with barbed flies is: If you have ever had a barbed, #2 wooly bugger buried to the shaft in your forearm or in your mug, I will promise you that you will NEVER fish with a barb on your hook again! This is from the voice of experience.....ME...And IT HURTS LIKE HELL!!! That was one class I wished I would have skipped while at the "College of Hard Knocks"!

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from strayerkl wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Thank you very much for your responding troutmad, your post was very helpful. I will make a diligent effort to use this advice next time I am on the river, I will also check out the book you mentioned. Thanks once again!
-Ken

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

And if you're worried about line burn, get some gloves you cry baby, I never have burned my hands on the fly line, and I fished for salmon when I was 4, and they make that line fly off that reel like you hooked a 747.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

I started fly fishing at 3, I started off fishing for trout in some of California's best streams, and the first fish I ever caught was a 21 inch Brown, on a size 12 royal wulff that my dad made.

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Alex has reached the breaking point.

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from Cowboy Carl wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Haha, yeah I think Alex needs to calm down a little bit.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Hell, I think people need to quit messing with other people, he may seem like he knows, and he may, but I was offering advice to a BEGINNER. Most likely they are fishing for bluegills or small trout, you can hand strip those in.

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from strayerkl wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Lets not offend the master of fishing.... I severly doubt that you started flyfishing at 3, that would be almost physically impossible because you dont possess that kind of fine motor skills at that age. And a guide at 10 you say. You dont have to blow smoke on this forumn, dont need to try and impress anyone here mate. And to basically say that Lefty Kreh doesnt know what he is talking about makes you lose all credability you ever had in my humble opinion.

Troutmad, thanks once again. Went out to the river this past weekend and heeding your advice and reading that book by Lefty Kreh proved very fruitfull. Landed everyone of them with relative ease compared to before. Much different than a regular rod and reel I must say.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

He does know what he was doing, but I did start fly fishing at 3, my dad started teaching me to cast. Now, I didn't guide at 10, my dad did, I worked for him, I know how to fish, and yes, lefty can help, I may not agree that he is the best fisherman out there, but he is pretty good. I never even said Kreh is bad, I was talking about troutmad, now don't get me wrong, he may be a great fisherman, I haven't seen him, and the same goes for him, so lets cut the BS and go and fish.

AP

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Amen Alex

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Alex, Alex, Alex, “The fly rod winner”,

I thought long and hard about responding to your vulgar, immature rhetoric….But I can’t let what you said go unanswered.

In four words "Chill Out….Go fishing!"

Son, if you reread what I wrote to Ken, you would realize that I was just giving a new fly fisher an alternate opinion, and some more insight about the wonderful sport of fly fishing. I was not attacking you. After reading your responses, it still makes me wonder even more about your experience. Please believe me when I say, it truly takes more that 13 years of a Walter Mitty dream to make an expert!

There are so many unavoidable circumstances that so often happen to extremely experienced outdoorsmen and women, that they have no control over. I do not know of any experienced fly fishers who have not either been stuck by another fisher, or stuck themselves at least one time.
You are a very, very lucky boy not to have been accidently snagged by a fish hook.

It is not an issue of, as you said, and I quote, "If you don't suck at fishing you won't have it happen that often." The key words there, Alex, are “not often”. A better way to respond is, “If you fly fish a lot, and you are very lucky, you won't have it happen that often." It only takes one time to have a hard wind blow and have the direction of a fly cast, and fly into a person's body! You must realize that barbed hooks are no fun to remove and they really hurt! Frankly, I would be extremely surprised if your daddy has not been snagged by a fish hook at least once in his “professional career”.

I also did not feel it necessary, at the time, to mention the significant factor of fish mortality. The mortality rate of a fish caught and released when an angler uses a barbed hook, compared to one caught with a barbless hook is significantly higher. There is no comparison between the two. It is very difficult to remove a barbed hook, especially if it has been hooked deep in their throat. That is a fact! The less stress one puts on a fish when removing a hook, the chances of a fish living to “fight another day” improve a hundred fold.

One last thing about using barbed hooks: If people did not get snagged by fish hooks, there would not be so many articles written in so many respected magazines and books titled, “How to Remove Fish Hooks”. Enough said!

Alex, I probably did sound like a cry baby….Maybe I screamed like a little girl in pain when the first Chinook salmon I hooked took off like “a 747”. I tried to “slow it down” by pinching the line, to control his run back to Lake Michigan, from Baldwin, Michigan. That was when I decided to learn how to fight a fish correctly. Now, I just get the slack line under control, and then fight the fish using my very capable rod and reel. That is what they are designed for.

You are a very lucky if, as you proclaim, you were being taught how to fly fish at the age of 3. Two of the best fly fisherman I have ever known, had a Sage rod in their hands before they had a silver spoon in their mouths! They are now in their thirties and blow my mind, and usually out-fish me every time I am fortunate enough to fish with them. They are my God Sons, and their dad taught me how to be an angler 40 years ago.

Alex, there is something to be said about a child's immature ego. Your ignorant, vulgar replies and attacks just affirm your immaturity and childish arrogance. Please don’t use this forum to pontificate your “vast” 13 years of youthful experience.
PS: Yesterday you wrote, “Now, I didn't guide at 10, my dad did, I worked for him, I know how to fish, and yes, lefty can help, I may not agree that he is the best fisherman out there, but he is pretty good”. About five days ago you wrote: “Don't tell me I don't know what I'm Talking about. I have guided since I was 10, I have landed countless smallmouth bass over 5 pounds with flys, I have fished for kings in Alaska, and Tarpon in Florida, I know fishing, Its what I do, don't tell me I don't know what the hell i'm talking about

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Trout, what you said was an embarrassing attack on what I believe was help to a beginner, thats when I took offense with what you said, and I will admit, some of what I said was Immature, vulgar, arrogant, whatever... It still doesn't change the fact you were saying some really un-realistic crap that I found to come towards me as an "Attack"...

"Regarding Alex Pernice the fly rod winner's advice:
"Don't reel them, hand strip the line in, and make sure the barbs on you're hook are good, plus make sure to set the hook good."

With all due respect, it makes me wonder if Alex has ever caught a big fish, and I am not talking about a sailfish! I am talking about a 16"+ trout, bonefish, or smallmouth bass. It is a fact if you are fighting a large fish and hand stipping it in, while fight it, the chances of losing the fish are very high."

Read lines 4-6 a few times, even if you did say "With all due respect", you were still "Attacking" me,don't tell me that I was the one that started this crap, you brought it on yourself, and if you think I'm spreadin a ton of "BS" go and read the posts a few more times. Don't call me "Immature" I'm 15, Its fine to mess around with you're buds, or to fish hard and whatever, and when you attack me with something like that, I feel as though I was getting called an Idiot so I got mad at you for it.

We "Cool" now?
Lets quit acting like two fighting girls Trout, you say sorry, I say sorry, and we can shut up and we don't have to speak to one another ever.

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

And my Dad has been hooked a few times, I never said that he wasn't, and I a AM lucky to have never been hooked, and most times I was lucky and did something I like to call, "Ducking!"

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

and the above phrase is meant to be Joking, don't take it too seriously.

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

To Alex Pernice the Fly Rod Winner:
I have three simple words for you Child! Grow Up Boy!!! I just began checking out this F & S website, and unfortunately I opened up this string.
You are so out of your league, trying to so sound cool and so wise, when you are trying to intellectually spar with an obviously intelligent, and clearly a veteran, fly fisherman like Troutmad!
The more you try to dig out of the very deep hole you dug for yourself, the more childish, mendacious, and dim-witted you sound. Guiding at 10 years old! SHAME ON YOU! If your daddy found out about your juvenile fibs and behavior, he would probably give you a good spanking! Unless the apple does not fall too far from the tree, that is.
As much as you foolishly try to defend your tirade against him, and as much as you think that Troutmad was trying to “attack” you, as you say; you just make yourself sound more foolish, and as he said, “Immature.”.
He was merely trying to give Ken a well developed, academic explanation, based on sound investigation, citing both meticulous research (citing greats like Mr. Kreh) and “painstaking” fly fishing experience (I am sorry for my poor attempt at a pun Troutmad!),
Before you continue “trying” to act like a know-it-all grownup, kid, heed this advice: Adults can see through your thin façade! Adults do not have to tell one “Fish Story” after another to prove their prowess! There are enough real grown up adults to fill the bill.
Like I said at the beginning of this string, “I have three simple words for you Child! Grow Up Boy!!!”

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

And I have two words for you boy! "Stay out!", there are only two people that should even look at this post, Troutmad and myself.
its not that big of a deal to post some links, I do it too, he wanted simple advice, and i gave it, untill Trout started his attack, now that this thread is blown WAY out of proportion, I'm having it locked down.

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Don't even talk by the way, you may be younger than I am, and I see no proof of any knowledge that you have, with you're 1 total post.

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Alex:
Post # 2
Actually, this post is to help Ken, not for, and I quote you again, "'Stay out!', there are only two people that should even look at this post, Troutmad and myself."
Need I remind you, son, that this is a public venue, for the public to commuicate with one another.
The more that I read the words you write, the younger you sound than the immature 15 years old, that you really are.
BOY Alex, I certainly have to admit something: You sure are CUTE when I read the tantrums you write, when you go off on one of your juvenile tirades.

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Post # 3
Oh, one more thing: Usually when one adult has a differing opinion than another and expresses an alternative opinion, they call that a discussion, debate, difference of opinion....Not an attack!

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Just checking to see if Alex got the thread locked down or not. I enjoyed reading this debate.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Meh, Decided not to reply to anymore posts from Flyzen and troutmad and I stopped the stupid debate...

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Silly child! you have sway......

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I agree with AP. You do strip most fish in. Of course there are exceptions but on the most part a fly reel does not have the capacity to pick up line quickly enough to quickly land a fish.

AP, I got your back brother!

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Thanks bud, I new someone else did...

AP

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Yeah I hand strip in most fish too. I atually didn't once today though. I caught a gar and i used the reel for it.

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Oh, by the way. Merwin is much much better than Kreh. Kreh tends to follow the crowd. Merwin is no nonsense fishing skills at its best.

To answer your question Ken, stripping gets the fish to you much quicker. At times if you've hooked a toad then getting a fish on the reel may be best. Definitely keep your barbed hooks where allowed. Barbless hooks are way over rated but that's another story. Keep the line taunt and your tip high. I net most of my fish. The less hands on the better. If you fish a heavier tippet then you can set your hook and horse your fish in. The less you fight a fish the better.

Sometimes if you have a fly with thick hackle it takes away the hookability of a fly. You may want to trim your hackle if possible.

Either way, we all lose fish. It's part of the game. I glad to hear you are enjoying fly fishing.

Don't be afraid to jump in on the Fly Talk blogs.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Buck, you really do got my back, LOL!

AP

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from strayerkl wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Lets not offend the master of fishing.... I severly doubt that you started flyfishing at 3, that would be almost physically impossible because you dont possess that kind of fine motor skills at that age. And a guide at 10 you say. You dont have to blow smoke on this forumn, dont need to try and impress anyone here mate. And to basically say that Lefty Kreh doesnt know what he is talking about makes you lose all credability you ever had in my humble opinion.

Troutmad, thanks once again. Went out to the river this past weekend and heeding your advice and reading that book by Lefty Kreh proved very fruitfull. Landed everyone of them with relative ease compared to before. Much different than a regular rod and reel I must say.

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Hi Ken,
From the little that you have included in your plea for hrlp, I have some bits of advice:
1) Don't horse them in.
I don't know if you are just reeling the fish in, and not playing the fish. It is important to tire, NOT EXHAUST THEM...If you want to release them. If you exhaust the fish (regardless of the species), chance are you will kill it.
The idea is to tire the fish out QUICKLY, then reel them in. One day (please note that I did not say, "One day grasshopper..."), when you get more experience, you will be able to feel when the fish is tiring.
2) You may be wondering how to tire the fish out quickly. Number one: Four words....Bow To The Fish! By that I mean; When the fish starts to to run, when you are reeling it in, and your rod tip is high, immediately drop the tip and point it towards the fish. What happens is the fish will slow down and "relax" (if that is possible with a hook in your snout), when it feels no pressure. It will ususally find a calm spot to lie and rest.
Then start angling the rod to the side, so that it slowly pulls the fish into the current, if you are in a stream. If you are in a lake or the ocean, just keep pressure on the fish by changing the rod's position, and raising your rod.
3) May sure that your hooks are sharp, so you can get a good set of your hook. Check your hook often. The best way to do this, drag point over your fingernail. If it sticks, it is sharp...If it doesn't...Get a good, small hook sharpener, and keep in on your vest.
By using these techniques, in a surpisingly short amount of time, the fish will tire, and you will have a lot less problems landing your fish.
I have been fly fishing for 40 years, and a lot of my knowledge was learned at the "College of Hard Knocks"! I was extremely fortunate to have Lefty Kreh as one of my mentors. I suggest that you get a great, short book that Lefty wrote "Lefty Kreh's 101 Fly Fishing Tips". It is a treasure!
Good luck Ken!

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Hi Ken,
From the little that you have included in your plea for hrlp, I have some bits of advice:
1) Don't horse them in.
I don't know if you are just reeling the fish in, and not playing the fish. There is more than keeping your rod tip high. It is important to tire the fish out, but NOT EXHAUST THEM...If you want to release them that is. If you exhaust the fish (regardless of the species), chances are you will kill it.
The idea is to tire the fish out QUICKLY, then reel them in, resuscitate.
One day (please note that I did not say, "One day grasshopper..."), when you get more experience, you will be able to feel when the fish is tiring.
2) You may be wondering how to tire the fish out quickly. Number one: Four words....Bow To The Fish! By that I mean; When the fish starts to to run, when you are reeling it in, and your rod tip is high, immediately drop the tip and point it towards the fish. What happens is the fish will slow down and "relax" (if that is possible with a hook in your snout), when it feels no pressure. It will ususally find a calm spot to lie and rest.
Then, start angling the rod from side to side, so that it slowly pulls the fish's head into the current, if you are in a stream. If you are in a lake or the ocean, just keep pressure on the fish by changing the rod's position, and raising your rod.
3) May sure that your hooks are sharp, so you can get a good set of your hook. Check your hook often. The best way to do this, drag point over your fingernail. If it sticks, it is sharp...If it doesn't...Get a good, small hook sharpener, and keep in on your vest. It is hard to explain, so I will refer you to this website: http://books.google.com/books?id=j8c3Sklaz4AC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=sharpe... . It is a very long address, but it will take you to Google's Book Search for Lefty Kreh's book "Lefty Kreh's Presenting the Fly" By Lefty Kreh, Rod Walinchus. LEFTY IS THE FLY FISHING GOD/GURU!
By using these techniques, in a surpisingly short amount of time, the fish will tire, and you will have a lot less problems landing your fish.
I have been fly fishing for 40 years, and a lot of my knowledge was learned at the "College of Hard Knocks"! But, I was extremely fortunate to have Lefty as one of my mentors. I suggest that you get a great, short book that Lefty wrote "Lefty Kreh's 101 Fly Fishing Tips". It is a treasure!
Good luck Ken! If you have any more questions, write me.

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Regarding Alex Pernice the fly rod winner's advice:
"Don't reel them, hand strip the line in, and make sure the barbs on you're hook are good, plus make sure to set the hook good."

With all due respect, it makes me wonder if Alex has ever caught a big fish, and I am not talking about a sailfish! I am talking about a 16"+ trout, bonefish, or smallmouth bass. It is a fact if you are fighting a large fish and hand stipping it in, while fight it, the chances of losing the fish are very high.

The main reason for this is: when you are hand stripping a fish in, and the fish takes off running, most people will let the line run through their fingers, with some pressure on the line. When you do this, it cause friction; Or, if you hit a dry spot on the line, it will stop the line...And Bingo, No more fish.

The other "friction issue" with hand stipping when fighting a big fish like a steelhead is trying to maintain control, or slow the fish down. When a steelhead takes off after you hook it and set the hook, they take off like a torpedo! If you are letting that line scream through your fingers, you will have a bad "rope burn" on your fingers...It hurt reel bad Mon...I'll guar-on-tee it!

In today's market, you can buy a very good reel with a good, adjustable, and most of all SMOOTH drag system that won't cost you an arm and a leg. With these reels you can let the run and you can control the pressure without grabbing the line. Inexpensive reels with palm drags are work well too. Just make sure that you dip your palm into the water every once and a while, to keep the pressure smooth.

It is a good idea to reel in all slack line and play the fish with you reel and rod. That is what they are made for.

The other thing about Alex's reponse that has been debunked by professional anglers, with far more experience than I, is his issue about barbs. A sharp hook if far more important than a barb. I will refer both of you, Ken, and Alex to page 39, starting at the fourth paragraph in Lefty Kreh's book "Lefty Kreh's Presenting the Fly" (the Google website is: http://books.google.com/books?id=j8c3Sklaz4AC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=sharpe... .

Another thing about fly casting with barbed flies is: If you have ever had a barbed, #2 wooly bugger buried to the shaft in your forearm or in your mug, I will promise you that you will NEVER fish with a barb on your hook again! This is from the voice of experience.....ME...And IT HURTS LIKE HELL!!! That was one class I wished I would have skipped while at the "College of Hard Knocks"!

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from strayerkl wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Thank you very much for your responding troutmad, your post was very helpful. I will make a diligent effort to use this advice next time I am on the river, I will also check out the book you mentioned. Thanks once again!
-Ken

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 51 weeks ago

Don't reel them, hand strip the line in, and make sure the barbs on you're hook are good, plus make sure to set the hook good.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

I started fly fishing at 3, I started off fishing for trout in some of California's best streams, and the first fish I ever caught was a 21 inch Brown, on a size 12 royal wulff that my dad made.

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Alex has reached the breaking point.

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from Cowboy Carl wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Haha, yeah I think Alex needs to calm down a little bit.

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Amen Alex

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from troutmad wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Alex, Alex, Alex, “The fly rod winner”,

I thought long and hard about responding to your vulgar, immature rhetoric….But I can’t let what you said go unanswered.

In four words "Chill Out….Go fishing!"

Son, if you reread what I wrote to Ken, you would realize that I was just giving a new fly fisher an alternate opinion, and some more insight about the wonderful sport of fly fishing. I was not attacking you. After reading your responses, it still makes me wonder even more about your experience. Please believe me when I say, it truly takes more that 13 years of a Walter Mitty dream to make an expert!

There are so many unavoidable circumstances that so often happen to extremely experienced outdoorsmen and women, that they have no control over. I do not know of any experienced fly fishers who have not either been stuck by another fisher, or stuck themselves at least one time.
You are a very, very lucky boy not to have been accidently snagged by a fish hook.

It is not an issue of, as you said, and I quote, "If you don't suck at fishing you won't have it happen that often." The key words there, Alex, are “not often”. A better way to respond is, “If you fly fish a lot, and you are very lucky, you won't have it happen that often." It only takes one time to have a hard wind blow and have the direction of a fly cast, and fly into a person's body! You must realize that barbed hooks are no fun to remove and they really hurt! Frankly, I would be extremely surprised if your daddy has not been snagged by a fish hook at least once in his “professional career”.

I also did not feel it necessary, at the time, to mention the significant factor of fish mortality. The mortality rate of a fish caught and released when an angler uses a barbed hook, compared to one caught with a barbless hook is significantly higher. There is no comparison between the two. It is very difficult to remove a barbed hook, especially if it has been hooked deep in their throat. That is a fact! The less stress one puts on a fish when removing a hook, the chances of a fish living to “fight another day” improve a hundred fold.

One last thing about using barbed hooks: If people did not get snagged by fish hooks, there would not be so many articles written in so many respected magazines and books titled, “How to Remove Fish Hooks”. Enough said!

Alex, I probably did sound like a cry baby….Maybe I screamed like a little girl in pain when the first Chinook salmon I hooked took off like “a 747”. I tried to “slow it down” by pinching the line, to control his run back to Lake Michigan, from Baldwin, Michigan. That was when I decided to learn how to fight a fish correctly. Now, I just get the slack line under control, and then fight the fish using my very capable rod and reel. That is what they are designed for.

You are a very lucky if, as you proclaim, you were being taught how to fly fish at the age of 3. Two of the best fly fisherman I have ever known, had a Sage rod in their hands before they had a silver spoon in their mouths! They are now in their thirties and blow my mind, and usually out-fish me every time I am fortunate enough to fish with them. They are my God Sons, and their dad taught me how to be an angler 40 years ago.

Alex, there is something to be said about a child's immature ego. Your ignorant, vulgar replies and attacks just affirm your immaturity and childish arrogance. Please don’t use this forum to pontificate your “vast” 13 years of youthful experience.
PS: Yesterday you wrote, “Now, I didn't guide at 10, my dad did, I worked for him, I know how to fish, and yes, lefty can help, I may not agree that he is the best fisherman out there, but he is pretty good”. About five days ago you wrote: “Don't tell me I don't know what I'm Talking about. I have guided since I was 10, I have landed countless smallmouth bass over 5 pounds with flys, I have fished for kings in Alaska, and Tarpon in Florida, I know fishing, Its what I do, don't tell me I don't know what the hell i'm talking about

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Trout, what you said was an embarrassing attack on what I believe was help to a beginner, thats when I took offense with what you said, and I will admit, some of what I said was Immature, vulgar, arrogant, whatever... It still doesn't change the fact you were saying some really un-realistic crap that I found to come towards me as an "Attack"...

"Regarding Alex Pernice the fly rod winner's advice:
"Don't reel them, hand strip the line in, and make sure the barbs on you're hook are good, plus make sure to set the hook good."

With all due respect, it makes me wonder if Alex has ever caught a big fish, and I am not talking about a sailfish! I am talking about a 16"+ trout, bonefish, or smallmouth bass. It is a fact if you are fighting a large fish and hand stipping it in, while fight it, the chances of losing the fish are very high."

Read lines 4-6 a few times, even if you did say "With all due respect", you were still "Attacking" me,don't tell me that I was the one that started this crap, you brought it on yourself, and if you think I'm spreadin a ton of "BS" go and read the posts a few more times. Don't call me "Immature" I'm 15, Its fine to mess around with you're buds, or to fish hard and whatever, and when you attack me with something like that, I feel as though I was getting called an Idiot so I got mad at you for it.

We "Cool" now?
Lets quit acting like two fighting girls Trout, you say sorry, I say sorry, and we can shut up and we don't have to speak to one another ever.

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

And my Dad has been hooked a few times, I never said that he wasn't, and I a AM lucky to have never been hooked, and most times I was lucky and did something I like to call, "Ducking!"

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

and the above phrase is meant to be Joking, don't take it too seriously.

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

To Alex Pernice the Fly Rod Winner:
I have three simple words for you Child! Grow Up Boy!!! I just began checking out this F & S website, and unfortunately I opened up this string.
You are so out of your league, trying to so sound cool and so wise, when you are trying to intellectually spar with an obviously intelligent, and clearly a veteran, fly fisherman like Troutmad!
The more you try to dig out of the very deep hole you dug for yourself, the more childish, mendacious, and dim-witted you sound. Guiding at 10 years old! SHAME ON YOU! If your daddy found out about your juvenile fibs and behavior, he would probably give you a good spanking! Unless the apple does not fall too far from the tree, that is.
As much as you foolishly try to defend your tirade against him, and as much as you think that Troutmad was trying to “attack” you, as you say; you just make yourself sound more foolish, and as he said, “Immature.”.
He was merely trying to give Ken a well developed, academic explanation, based on sound investigation, citing both meticulous research (citing greats like Mr. Kreh) and “painstaking” fly fishing experience (I am sorry for my poor attempt at a pun Troutmad!),
Before you continue “trying” to act like a know-it-all grownup, kid, heed this advice: Adults can see through your thin façade! Adults do not have to tell one “Fish Story” after another to prove their prowess! There are enough real grown up adults to fill the bill.
Like I said at the beginning of this string, “I have three simple words for you Child! Grow Up Boy!!!”

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

And I have two words for you boy! "Stay out!", there are only two people that should even look at this post, Troutmad and myself.
its not that big of a deal to post some links, I do it too, he wanted simple advice, and i gave it, untill Trout started his attack, now that this thread is blown WAY out of proportion, I'm having it locked down.

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Don't even talk by the way, you may be younger than I am, and I see no proof of any knowledge that you have, with you're 1 total post.

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Alex:
Post # 2
Actually, this post is to help Ken, not for, and I quote you again, "'Stay out!', there are only two people that should even look at this post, Troutmad and myself."
Need I remind you, son, that this is a public venue, for the public to commuicate with one another.
The more that I read the words you write, the younger you sound than the immature 15 years old, that you really are.
BOY Alex, I certainly have to admit something: You sure are CUTE when I read the tantrums you write, when you go off on one of your juvenile tirades.

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Just checking to see if Alex got the thread locked down or not. I enjoyed reading this debate.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Meh, Decided not to reply to anymore posts from Flyzen and troutmad and I stopped the stupid debate...

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I agree with AP. You do strip most fish in. Of course there are exceptions but on the most part a fly reel does not have the capacity to pick up line quickly enough to quickly land a fish.

AP, I got your back brother!

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Thanks bud, I new someone else did...

AP

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from BamaCreekBum wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Yeah I hand strip in most fish too. I atually didn't once today though. I caught a gar and i used the reel for it.

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from buckhunter wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Oh, by the way. Merwin is much much better than Kreh. Kreh tends to follow the crowd. Merwin is no nonsense fishing skills at its best.

To answer your question Ken, stripping gets the fish to you much quicker. At times if you've hooked a toad then getting a fish on the reel may be best. Definitely keep your barbed hooks where allowed. Barbless hooks are way over rated but that's another story. Keep the line taunt and your tip high. I net most of my fish. The less hands on the better. If you fish a heavier tippet then you can set your hook and horse your fish in. The less you fight a fish the better.

Sometimes if you have a fly with thick hackle it takes away the hookability of a fly. You may want to trim your hackle if possible.

Either way, we all lose fish. It's part of the game. I glad to hear you are enjoying fly fishing.

Don't be afraid to jump in on the Fly Talk blogs.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Buck, you really do got my back, LOL!

AP

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

Hell, I think people need to quit messing with other people, he may seem like he knows, and he may, but I was offering advice to a BEGINNER. Most likely they are fishing for bluegills or small trout, you can hand strip those in.

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 49 weeks ago

Post # 3
Oh, one more thing: Usually when one adult has a differing opinion than another and expresses an alternative opinion, they call that a discussion, debate, difference of opinion....Not an attack!

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

And if you're worried about line burn, get some gloves you cry baby, I never have burned my hands on the fly line, and I fished for salmon when I was 4, and they make that line fly off that reel like you hooked a 747.

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from Alex Pernice th... wrote 4 years 50 weeks ago

He does know what he was doing, but I did start fly fishing at 3, my dad started teaching me to cast. Now, I didn't guide at 10, my dad did, I worked for him, I know how to fish, and yes, lefty can help, I may not agree that he is the best fisherman out there, but he is pretty good. I never even said Kreh is bad, I was talking about troutmad, now don't get me wrong, he may be a great fisherman, I haven't seen him, and the same goes for him, so lets cut the BS and go and fish.

AP

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from FlyFishinZen wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Silly child! you have sway......

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