Rifles
I have heard alot of crap about what rifle load is the best. some people say rem 700 super magnum is to big for deer and it goes so fast it doesnt kill the fast enough. i have also heard that .223 is to small and doesnt get enough penetration. What do you think. What is the best load in your mind?
It depends what I had in my gun cabinet. If all I had was a .338win mag then thats what I would use.
IMO, anything "magnum" is not necessary. A good old .270 or .30-06 is more than plenty gun.
The largest I've used is a 300 win, which was more than enough. But, if all I had was a .375 H&H, I would use it happily. Yes, you can take deer with a .223, for those who say you can't, I've done it on numerous occasions. Is it my first choice; "no." I think deer hunting territory begins with .24 caliber.
The .243 Winchester is as good a deer gun as any. As far as to big? There's no such thing IF YOU CAN SHOOT IT WELL!!!
Whitetail only? Are we talking 300 pounders up in Saskatchewan or 140 pound Texas deer?
For WA, MT, ID, CO deer, I would be using my Ruger .257 Roberts or maybe a .25-06 or .270 Win if I had one. Although I have killed more deer with the .35 Whelen and .308 Win because that's what was in my hand at the time in a combination season. I'll let you know if I suffer a testosterone deficiency and take up .22 centerfires to overcome it.
I don't think it really matters,there can be overkill, you don't need a .338 Lapua or anything like that, bit if you use a big caliber with a tough bullet, I don't think it will "Puddle-ize" a white-tail. I think you should use a practical caliber for the game, anything btween a .243 and .30-06 I think would do a fantastic job.
If I'm hunting purely whitetails, it's either a .257 Roberts, a .308 Winchester, or a 7mm Remington magnum loaded down a notch. If I'm bear hunting while the antlerless season is in and opportunity presents, I'll use a .300 Winchester magnum, which is entirely too much but was at hand.
I use a 270 win for everything I hunt. When I bought it I was tempted to buy a 338 win mag. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that bullets for it were more than 2x the price of the 270 win. It would have been nice to be confident in every shot I'd ever take and NEVER have to worry about the distance and loss of hitting power.
With a 270 I may have to get a little closer and as a result have to pass on some shots.
Now here is my admission. I admit to not being a military sniper and for me 200 yards is a good shot. If you can't place the shot properly it dosen't matter what size of gun you have.
I could have grown into a 338 but for now a 270 will be just fine. I had another 270 before this one and have shot deer that have not taken a single step after being shot.
To answer your question though I don't think there is such a thing as "too much gun" but there certainly is "unnecessary gun" . For me as stated above for right now a 338 win mag is unnecessary but for somebody who can confidently shoot 400-500 yards it is great.
If you want to grow into a rifle as your ability increases or if you want to carry one rifle for everything you'll ever hunt you may want something bigger.
It's all about personal preference. That's why there are so many options. Use what is legal and what you are comfortable with.
I'm looking for something in a .25 as a perfect deer gun. My .30-06 is admittedly overkill but was a nice gift from my dad.
steve182,
If you're interested in a .25, try a 25-06, or another good one, a .250 Savage. I've got a .250 that's been in the family for years, my Grandpa had it and shot elk, mule deer and bear with it. In the .250, the 100 gr. pills will do the job, if you do yours!
I like the .30's my self. .30-30,.308,.30-06,.300 Win Mag.
I have, as my deer battery, the .270Win,30.06, .35Whelen, and the 45/70...I like them all, but to ask what is the "biggest" caliber I would use on deer? If I had it, I would use a .416 or .570 caliber...if had I had it ;o)
My dad used a .375 H&H Magnum to good effect (and on rabbits too!)
I'm an avid shooter but an infrequent hunter. I own rifles in 257 Roberts, 257 Ackley Improved (AI), 7x57 Mauser, 7x57 AI, 280 AI and 308. I used to own a .270 Winchester in a Savage Model 111, but I gave it away to a friend of mine who needed a great-performing rifle (and it is, though it is also incredibly ugly with its factory-issue crappy plastic stock). I handload for all these calibers except the 308.
These days, my favorite rifle for hunting in TX (e.g., whitetail deer and wild pigs) is my 7x57 Mauser, followed very closely by my 257 Roberts, 257 AI and 7x57 AI. The 7x57 AI is a great rifle and a great round, but for deer or any other game animal in Texas, and despite its reasonable recoil, it (like my .280 AI) is unnecessarily powerful, at least for me.
I have discovered over the last 6 months what millions of shooters in this country have long known: that an accurate, well-aimed, modern action 7x57 Mauser with a Barnes 120-grain TTSX bullet (or a Nosler 120-grain Ballistic Tip, or a Sierra 120-grain ProHunter) and 51-52 grains of H414 is a thing of beauty--minimal recoil, muzzle velocity from a 22" barrel of around 3100 fps or a little better (at safe pressures), good ballistic coefficiency and sectional density (so the bullet loses velocity slowly and penetrates very deeply), and outstanding lethality (with a well-placed heart/lung shot) out to 300+ yards. What more does one need for any deer (or pig) in this country?
I feel very comfortable shooting my centerfire rifles out to 300 yards. I routinely practice shooting waterfilled 1/2 gallon milk cartons at 300 yards, and when this becomes too easy (after a week or two at the range), I switch to 16-oz. waterfilled plastic softdrink bottles. The nice thing about the waterfilled milk cartons and softdrink bottles is that you can always tell if you've made a good hit--the carton or bottle explodes--and you don't need a spotting scope to see it. Secondly, as long as your bullet hits in the main body of the carton or bottle--which is the only way the carton or bottle will explode--then you know you've just nailed the heart-lung zone of your future deer or pig. This technique of shooting--using waterfilled jugs and old milk cartons--will, once you've gotten tuned to your rifle and its load, boost your confidence considerably on shots out to 300 yards.
While I have no issue with a hunter using his 7mm Magnum or even his .300 Magnum (of whatever type) to take his deer, I believe there is no difference in lethality between those rounds and a well-aimed accurate handloaded 7x57 Mauser (with any of the bullets and powder load mentioned above) out to 300+ yards on a heart-lung shot. For shooters who have a low tolerance for high recoil, then rifles in 7x57 Mauser (or healthy 120-grain Nosler or Barnes handloads using H-100-V powder in 257 Roberts or 257 AI or 7mm-08) are preferable, in my view then any of the 7mm (or larger) magnum cartridges, because the shooter won't flinch and isn't afraid of the recoil or muzzle blast of his rifle.
TWD
Agreed, T.W.
I ain't skeered of my 7mm Weatherby and it doen't make me flinch!
The .257 Roberts is all anyone needs to kill deer! The 7x57 is probably even better with slightly heavier bullets. As you pointed out, the extra lethality is not required! Dead is dead.
This will probably win the 'WTF and Why' award. I've got a load for my .375 Ruger that I have been working on with 220gr Hornady jacketed flat points at around 2100-2200 fps. I'm still refining it and hope to take it out in the next month.
Sgaredneck. You already answered the "Why",...you're tinkering with a load. that's what handloaders do. As long as you're loading it down and not up, why not? Many whitetails fall to .45 or .50 cal loads from muzzleloaders, much larger than your .375. I know many guys who sometimes carry their inlines during regular rifle season because they're so effective out to 150, where most of our kills take place. If i was a handloader i'd work up a hot load using the Hornady flextips for my .32win.spcl. that would be awesome to 200 yds or so. Instead i bought the Hornady leverevolution stuff and will give it a try for something different than the ol'06.
What I have been trying to do is come up with a load that approximated a .375 Winchester lever gun load (thereabouts) that would still fly 150 yards, yet wouldn't be so fast as to destroy that bullet I'm using. My main reason is to take the new Ruger African out and play with it. :-)
For deer my primary rifle has been a 25-06 for the last 45 years. I has done so well for me that you would have a hard time trying to convince me to prefer something else. I have shot deer with several different calibers though and I do still tinker. I currently still use a .300 Dakota and a .375 H&H for deer just to try something different in special situations. With a good bullet, I have found that ANY centerfire cartrige is adequate for deer. They all do much better than an arrow. Of course as we know, even an arrow is quite deadly. I haven't had much meat damage to speak of because I usually shoot them just behind the top of the shoulder blade. I haven't found any cartrige to be too much for deer as in that spot they all pretty much poke a hole and kill the deer instantly. The only concern I have with anything from the .375 and larger is that you really have to watch where you shoot. The bullets will penetrate deer, big trees and houses without slowing down too much. For safety's sake you need to make sure you have a good backstop.
it doesnt matter what u shoot as long as you shoot it well. ive heard of people shooting whitetail with a 7mm mag and a 357 weatherby but ive also heard of them bieng taken with a .22 LR so the shooter makes the kill not the rifle.
I hunt deer with my .308, 300 WSM and the heaviest is my new .338 Federal.
50 cal Barrett punch those lungs right out. Thats ethical if you can afford the shells!!!
I've been thinking evil thoughts of rebarreling a Turkish Mauser in 9.3x62. Since I'll probably never make it to Africa, it'd be my whitetail, elk & black bear overkill rifle.
30-06
whatever
30-30 Winchester, 35 Remington, 32 Special. If I am in the "Bear" woods My 444 Marlin or 45-70. Those are my favorites. That being said if all I had was a 700 nitro mag and I needed meat in the freezer I would use it. It is way too much, but a slug that size even if it does not expand will open a wound that will not close, leaving a trail that even the most inexperienced hunter could follow.
here is remingtons suggestion page
http://www.remington.com/pages/community/hunting-suggestions.aspx
There really are so many good cartridge choices that it's difficult to isolate one (or three, or five) as BEST. Unable to afford all of them, I can only tell you what I've used or continue to rely on with great satisfaction, such as the .250 Savage, .30-30, .308 Win., 6.5x55mm, 7x57mm. I have shooting colleagues who swear by the 7mm-08, the .260 Rem, the .257 Roberts, the .25-'06, the .270 Win, .280 Rem and others...and they have the venison to prove their point. The best instinctive whitetail deer hunter I personally know has taken almost all his game with a .300 Savage, so he gets no argument from me.
I can credit any number of cartridges for their versatility, but it's very difficult to recommend one cartridge or another as the "best" when they're time-tested and proven up to the task.
Plus one to Edward above. I have used 30-06, 308, 7mm-08, 6.5x55, and 35 whelen on whitetail. My favorite currently is the 7mm-08, but I would pick up and use any of the others too.
i would use no bigger than a .300 win mag and no smaller than a .222 rem
Some guys are so into firepower they would say 155mm HE round, anything over a 30/06 is too much 30/30, .270, 243. 6.5 all great rounds for whitetail
I would love to do white tail hunting with an old .30/.30 lever action.
The most suitable thing I had.
150 gr 30-06 Springfields
.30-06 is about the biggest cartridge I would have around and call a deer rifle. In fact I do have a .30-06 "deer rifle" but it's for moose and bear, too. What I would be willing to use is a different story. If a buddy handed me his (insert big cartridge) and said lets go deer hunting, I would say yes to about anything I could handle recoil wise.
I used a 338 Win Mag once ('06 was in the shop). Not again. I spoiled more venison with that slug than a 12gauge.
30-06 now.
Forgive the duplication, but I thought it timely. This is what I posted on the "best deer caliber" post earlier.
"Regarding the .338 Win mag, one of the best deer hunters I ever knew swore by a model 70 in .338, he liked the long range capability and how it hit with authority, and also said that it was less destructive on meat than his .30-06. That was with factory ammo. Conversely, my son has one that he feeds a hot handload of WW760 and Hornady 200 grain Interlocks (Bee, does this sound familiar?) and it's just much too destructive for my tastes, the front end usually looks like it was run over by a road tractor. Personally, I prefer a .308 Winchester or a .257 Roberts, light to carry, not overly destructive, moderate recoil, long range capable, and hits like Thor's hammer. With age comes wisdom, right?"
I often use my 300 RUM, and works just great. I have had only one deer run, because I prefer the high shoulder shot. Yes you lose some meat, but tracking is always almost null and void. The one deer that ran, only ran about 30 yards, but happen to run closer to the field edge where I could easly get my truck to it:)
The largest I use is a 149 grain with a particion bullet................In a 7MM Mag. Doesn't take must to put a deer down,unless your shooting over 300 yards,than I would go to a 175 grain.
Last season I felt sadistic and wanted use my 338 Win Mag, but out at Jacks place cows and human habitation has an allergic reaction to ricochets!
I used to take my .338 Win Mag for a back up, just in case of something terrible happening to the primary Old Ugly .30-'06. Now that I have a .25-06, I don't take the .338 any more, but since I found a 180 gr. load in .338 that the Winchester really likes, maybe next season?
Post a Reply
Whitetail only? Are we talking 300 pounders up in Saskatchewan or 140 pound Texas deer?
For WA, MT, ID, CO deer, I would be using my Ruger .257 Roberts or maybe a .25-06 or .270 Win if I had one. Although I have killed more deer with the .35 Whelen and .308 Win because that's what was in my hand at the time in a combination season. I'll let you know if I suffer a testosterone deficiency and take up .22 centerfires to overcome it.
I'm an avid shooter but an infrequent hunter. I own rifles in 257 Roberts, 257 Ackley Improved (AI), 7x57 Mauser, 7x57 AI, 280 AI and 308. I used to own a .270 Winchester in a Savage Model 111, but I gave it away to a friend of mine who needed a great-performing rifle (and it is, though it is also incredibly ugly with its factory-issue crappy plastic stock). I handload for all these calibers except the 308.
These days, my favorite rifle for hunting in TX (e.g., whitetail deer and wild pigs) is my 7x57 Mauser, followed very closely by my 257 Roberts, 257 AI and 7x57 AI. The 7x57 AI is a great rifle and a great round, but for deer or any other game animal in Texas, and despite its reasonable recoil, it (like my .280 AI) is unnecessarily powerful, at least for me.
I have discovered over the last 6 months what millions of shooters in this country have long known: that an accurate, well-aimed, modern action 7x57 Mauser with a Barnes 120-grain TTSX bullet (or a Nosler 120-grain Ballistic Tip, or a Sierra 120-grain ProHunter) and 51-52 grains of H414 is a thing of beauty--minimal recoil, muzzle velocity from a 22" barrel of around 3100 fps or a little better (at safe pressures), good ballistic coefficiency and sectional density (so the bullet loses velocity slowly and penetrates very deeply), and outstanding lethality (with a well-placed heart/lung shot) out to 300+ yards. What more does one need for any deer (or pig) in this country?
I feel very comfortable shooting my centerfire rifles out to 300 yards. I routinely practice shooting waterfilled 1/2 gallon milk cartons at 300 yards, and when this becomes too easy (after a week or two at the range), I switch to 16-oz. waterfilled plastic softdrink bottles. The nice thing about the waterfilled milk cartons and softdrink bottles is that you can always tell if you've made a good hit--the carton or bottle explodes--and you don't need a spotting scope to see it. Secondly, as long as your bullet hits in the main body of the carton or bottle--which is the only way the carton or bottle will explode--then you know you've just nailed the heart-lung zone of your future deer or pig. This technique of shooting--using waterfilled jugs and old milk cartons--will, once you've gotten tuned to your rifle and its load, boost your confidence considerably on shots out to 300 yards.
While I have no issue with a hunter using his 7mm Magnum or even his .300 Magnum (of whatever type) to take his deer, I believe there is no difference in lethality between those rounds and a well-aimed accurate handloaded 7x57 Mauser (with any of the bullets and powder load mentioned above) out to 300+ yards on a heart-lung shot. For shooters who have a low tolerance for high recoil, then rifles in 7x57 Mauser (or healthy 120-grain Nosler or Barnes handloads using H-100-V powder in 257 Roberts or 257 AI or 7mm-08) are preferable, in my view then any of the 7mm (or larger) magnum cartridges, because the shooter won't flinch and isn't afraid of the recoil or muzzle blast of his rifle.
TWD
There really are so many good cartridge choices that it's difficult to isolate one (or three, or five) as BEST. Unable to afford all of them, I can only tell you what I've used or continue to rely on with great satisfaction, such as the .250 Savage, .30-30, .308 Win., 6.5x55mm, 7x57mm. I have shooting colleagues who swear by the 7mm-08, the .260 Rem, the .257 Roberts, the .25-'06, the .270 Win, .280 Rem and others...and they have the venison to prove their point. The best instinctive whitetail deer hunter I personally know has taken almost all his game with a .300 Savage, so he gets no argument from me.
I can credit any number of cartridges for their versatility, but it's very difficult to recommend one cartridge or another as the "best" when they're time-tested and proven up to the task.
I like the .30's my self. .30-30,.308,.30-06,.300 Win Mag.
I've been thinking evil thoughts of rebarreling a Turkish Mauser in 9.3x62. Since I'll probably never make it to Africa, it'd be my whitetail, elk & black bear overkill rifle.
It depends what I had in my gun cabinet. If all I had was a .338win mag then thats what I would use.
IMO, anything "magnum" is not necessary. A good old .270 or .30-06 is more than plenty gun.
The largest I've used is a 300 win, which was more than enough. But, if all I had was a .375 H&H, I would use it happily. Yes, you can take deer with a .223, for those who say you can't, I've done it on numerous occasions. Is it my first choice; "no." I think deer hunting territory begins with .24 caliber.
The .243 Winchester is as good a deer gun as any. As far as to big? There's no such thing IF YOU CAN SHOOT IT WELL!!!
I use a 270 win for everything I hunt. When I bought it I was tempted to buy a 338 win mag. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that bullets for it were more than 2x the price of the 270 win. It would have been nice to be confident in every shot I'd ever take and NEVER have to worry about the distance and loss of hitting power.
With a 270 I may have to get a little closer and as a result have to pass on some shots.
Now here is my admission. I admit to not being a military sniper and for me 200 yards is a good shot. If you can't place the shot properly it dosen't matter what size of gun you have.
I could have grown into a 338 but for now a 270 will be just fine. I had another 270 before this one and have shot deer that have not taken a single step after being shot.
To answer your question though I don't think there is such a thing as "too much gun" but there certainly is "unnecessary gun" . For me as stated above for right now a 338 win mag is unnecessary but for somebody who can confidently shoot 400-500 yards it is great.
If you want to grow into a rifle as your ability increases or if you want to carry one rifle for everything you'll ever hunt you may want something bigger.
It's all about personal preference. That's why there are so many options. Use what is legal and what you are comfortable with.
I'm looking for something in a .25 as a perfect deer gun. My .30-06 is admittedly overkill but was a nice gift from my dad.
steve182,
If you're interested in a .25, try a 25-06, or another good one, a .250 Savage. I've got a .250 that's been in the family for years, my Grandpa had it and shot elk, mule deer and bear with it. In the .250, the 100 gr. pills will do the job, if you do yours!
I have, as my deer battery, the .270Win,30.06, .35Whelen, and the 45/70...I like them all, but to ask what is the "biggest" caliber I would use on deer? If I had it, I would use a .416 or .570 caliber...if had I had it ;o)
Agreed, T.W.
I ain't skeered of my 7mm Weatherby and it doen't make me flinch!
The .257 Roberts is all anyone needs to kill deer! The 7x57 is probably even better with slightly heavier bullets. As you pointed out, the extra lethality is not required! Dead is dead.
This will probably win the 'WTF and Why' award. I've got a load for my .375 Ruger that I have been working on with 220gr Hornady jacketed flat points at around 2100-2200 fps. I'm still refining it and hope to take it out in the next month.
Sgaredneck. You already answered the "Why",...you're tinkering with a load. that's what handloaders do. As long as you're loading it down and not up, why not? Many whitetails fall to .45 or .50 cal loads from muzzleloaders, much larger than your .375. I know many guys who sometimes carry their inlines during regular rifle season because they're so effective out to 150, where most of our kills take place. If i was a handloader i'd work up a hot load using the Hornady flextips for my .32win.spcl. that would be awesome to 200 yds or so. Instead i bought the Hornady leverevolution stuff and will give it a try for something different than the ol'06.
What I have been trying to do is come up with a load that approximated a .375 Winchester lever gun load (thereabouts) that would still fly 150 yards, yet wouldn't be so fast as to destroy that bullet I'm using. My main reason is to take the new Ruger African out and play with it. :-)
Plus one to Edward above. I have used 30-06, 308, 7mm-08, 6.5x55, and 35 whelen on whitetail. My favorite currently is the 7mm-08, but I would pick up and use any of the others too.
i would use no bigger than a .300 win mag and no smaller than a .222 rem
Some guys are so into firepower they would say 155mm HE round, anything over a 30/06 is too much 30/30, .270, 243. 6.5 all great rounds for whitetail
I would love to do white tail hunting with an old .30/.30 lever action.
.30-06 is about the biggest cartridge I would have around and call a deer rifle. In fact I do have a .30-06 "deer rifle" but it's for moose and bear, too. What I would be willing to use is a different story. If a buddy handed me his (insert big cartridge) and said lets go deer hunting, I would say yes to about anything I could handle recoil wise.
Forgive the duplication, but I thought it timely. This is what I posted on the "best deer caliber" post earlier.
"Regarding the .338 Win mag, one of the best deer hunters I ever knew swore by a model 70 in .338, he liked the long range capability and how it hit with authority, and also said that it was less destructive on meat than his .30-06. That was with factory ammo. Conversely, my son has one that he feeds a hot handload of WW760 and Hornady 200 grain Interlocks (Bee, does this sound familiar?) and it's just much too destructive for my tastes, the front end usually looks like it was run over by a road tractor. Personally, I prefer a .308 Winchester or a .257 Roberts, light to carry, not overly destructive, moderate recoil, long range capable, and hits like Thor's hammer. With age comes wisdom, right?"
I don't think it really matters,there can be overkill, you don't need a .338 Lapua or anything like that, bit if you use a big caliber with a tough bullet, I don't think it will "Puddle-ize" a white-tail. I think you should use a practical caliber for the game, anything btween a .243 and .30-06 I think would do a fantastic job.
If I'm hunting purely whitetails, it's either a .257 Roberts, a .308 Winchester, or a 7mm Remington magnum loaded down a notch. If I'm bear hunting while the antlerless season is in and opportunity presents, I'll use a .300 Winchester magnum, which is entirely too much but was at hand.
My dad used a .375 H&H Magnum to good effect (and on rabbits too!)
For deer my primary rifle has been a 25-06 for the last 45 years. I has done so well for me that you would have a hard time trying to convince me to prefer something else. I have shot deer with several different calibers though and I do still tinker. I currently still use a .300 Dakota and a .375 H&H for deer just to try something different in special situations. With a good bullet, I have found that ANY centerfire cartrige is adequate for deer. They all do much better than an arrow. Of course as we know, even an arrow is quite deadly. I haven't had much meat damage to speak of because I usually shoot them just behind the top of the shoulder blade. I haven't found any cartrige to be too much for deer as in that spot they all pretty much poke a hole and kill the deer instantly. The only concern I have with anything from the .375 and larger is that you really have to watch where you shoot. The bullets will penetrate deer, big trees and houses without slowing down too much. For safety's sake you need to make sure you have a good backstop.
it doesnt matter what u shoot as long as you shoot it well. ive heard of people shooting whitetail with a 7mm mag and a 357 weatherby but ive also heard of them bieng taken with a .22 LR so the shooter makes the kill not the rifle.
I hunt deer with my .308, 300 WSM and the heaviest is my new .338 Federal.
50 cal Barrett punch those lungs right out. Thats ethical if you can afford the shells!!!
whatever
30-30 Winchester, 35 Remington, 32 Special. If I am in the "Bear" woods My 444 Marlin or 45-70. Those are my favorites. That being said if all I had was a 700 nitro mag and I needed meat in the freezer I would use it. It is way too much, but a slug that size even if it does not expand will open a wound that will not close, leaving a trail that even the most inexperienced hunter could follow.
here is remingtons suggestion page
http://www.remington.com/pages/community/hunting-suggestions.aspx
The most suitable thing I had.
150 gr 30-06 Springfields
I used a 338 Win Mag once ('06 was in the shop). Not again. I spoiled more venison with that slug than a 12gauge.
30-06 now.
I often use my 300 RUM, and works just great. I have had only one deer run, because I prefer the high shoulder shot. Yes you lose some meat, but tracking is always almost null and void. The one deer that ran, only ran about 30 yards, but happen to run closer to the field edge where I could easly get my truck to it:)
The largest I use is a 149 grain with a particion bullet................In a 7MM Mag. Doesn't take must to put a deer down,unless your shooting over 300 yards,than I would go to a 175 grain.
Last season I felt sadistic and wanted use my 338 Win Mag, but out at Jacks place cows and human habitation has an allergic reaction to ricochets!
I used to take my .338 Win Mag for a back up, just in case of something terrible happening to the primary Old Ugly .30-'06. Now that I have a .25-06, I don't take the .338 any more, but since I found a 180 gr. load in .338 that the Winchester really likes, maybe next season?
30-06
Post a Reply