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Bird Hunting

Rescued English Setter Trainable?

Uploaded on November 11, 2009

Hi everyone, just this past summer I received a purebred English Setter, about 4 years old from a hunting dog rescue. He is very birdy, or well anything: he points birds, squirrels, cats, whatever is available. He isn't gunshy- clearly has training, but was tossed for some reason or another.

I'm an experienced bird hunter, but have never set out to train my own dog.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I might be able to salvage him as at least a weekend hunter? One problem he has is roaming, once he's off the lead he's take off- I mean bolt. I was thinking a shock collar.

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All Replies
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 13 weeks ago

Well, he is a bit old for the usual regimen of training. Have you hunted over a pointing dog before? They are supposed to roam. Use a beeping collar that will tell you where he is when he's stopped moving and on point. However, you do need to ensure that he'll come back when summoned. If this is a problem, a shock collar might help, especially considering his age. A lot of dog treats in your pocket won't hurt either. Depending on the dog, it might even work better. One problem with some setters and pointers is deer or rabbits. They really have a strong urge to chase something that runs. I've seen an English setter that literally ran away if a deer sprang up. Could take days to find him. For something like this, I imagine a shock collar might be extremely useful. I've only raised and trained lab pups so can't advise you with much authority on the specifics of fine tuning this kind of dog. But it does sound like he has the instinct. Good luck!

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from SouthernUpland wrote 2 years 13 weeks ago

Thanks for the response. I have hunter over pointers, GSP's and Brits. I suppose what I meant by roam was he runs away until he decides to come back. When we take him out in the woods he'll disappear and then come back in an hour or so. He just goes on a joy run. He'll even zig-zag like a trained dog. I feel like he has promise, but people also don't get rid of trained dogs for fun. I may see if I can consult a trainer in my area.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 13 weeks ago

One way I have found to keep my pups from running too far is to simply disappear if they get out of sight. That usually freaks them out. When they finally find me I give em a good butt-chewing too (at least). But this isn't a lab or a pup. Still, I'm wondering if maybe you might try the same thing on a bit grander scale. Get out of the rig somewhere where you can hide good and then have someone else drive the truck off after the dog duffs for parts unknown. Hide yourself (maybe in a tree stand?), wait, and watch. Hopefully he'll get real nervous when he returns and sees he got left behind. If he doesn't then I'd say he doesn't give a darn. Not a very good quality in any kind of dog. Certainly will make training a challenge. If he does get nervous and upset then let him stew till it gets dark then reappear and give him the raspberries. It's an idea. Maybe not a good one. I've never had to deal with the problem on that scale. Or perhaps an e-collar may be the only answer.

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from Robert Ewing wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

As a rescue dog you have no idea what his experiences are in the field.All the training you would do with a pup could be used here,just go easy make the sessions short.Above all maintain your cool, you go off heavy handed it may cost you.A E-collar with a audible tone for correction and beeper to locate would work well. You don't know if he has carelessly over shocked before.If he is collar shy just put the receiver on him and forget it, let him get use to wearing it.In training use the tone to correct him. If he chases a deer or rabbit ,zapp him [start at #1]but don't say anything just look the other way.When he ranges out, a accessory beeper collar will help keep track of him .Zapp him if he gets too far out there or gone too long without checking in.You may have to turn it up to get him to responed ,then you can hide on him making him backtrack and find you [not to far from where he last saw you].Too much shocking can make them head strong so stay as low on the dial as you can so you have some reserve.Introduce the beeper collar slowly, turn it on in another room and leave it there for short periods of time up to 4 hours if you think he is shy.Most of all have fun with it ,you can have alot of fun getting to know a new dog.Remember if he does something stupid more often than not you set him up for it ,Have a laugh and start again.Hope this helps.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from SouthernUpland wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

Thank you for your advice.

Just a few questions: when you mean puppy training- quail wing on a stick, "whoa" training, and so forth?

Also: in terms of e-collars, can you provide any suggestions for ones that won't completely bust the bank?

It would be great if I could get him to hunt a bit, but if not, he's one of the best looking setter's I've seen, so if he doesn't want to, no harm no foul. He'll be a great dog either way.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

If there's an e-collar out there that doesn't bust the bank, I'd like to know too. Haven't seen one yet. My brother bought an el-cheapo one several years ago and then found replacement batteries cost a fortune. Then couldn't get them at all. Bob Ewing's advice is worth printing up and keeping somewhere for present and future use. And I mean that. Thanks, for sharing it!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Robert Ewing wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

Yes,all those to test and reinforce his interest in birds. Get a whoa barrel to teach him to be steady.Just praise him when your done,don't let him get on or off on his own and don't keep him on there forever.

I have not priced them out for awhile,I have Tri-tronics Field 90 G-2 gear.Mine controls the beeper unit that can be bought separatly.
Innotek has another one I liked,but you have to set your own price point.Just look for one that carries a audible tone and you can expand if nessary.Really no point to a beeper if he won't hunt other wise you should just keep him within site so he doesn't harass the wildlife. Have fun with him.

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from mr.grouse wrote 2 years 4 days ago

teaching him a here command , voice and whistle will certainly keep him from roaming when you are out with him. do not play games like hide and seek you will never have any consistent obedience with something like that. the here command is one of the most important commands a dog should learn it can save a dogs life . this command in a well trained dog should be automatic when taught properly. nothing is more annoying than listening to someone trying to get their dog to come to them . here is a basic command ,teach it properly ,four year old dog be firm dont play games.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 3 days ago

I don't use an e-collar so have resorted to "games". I'll admit, the hide and seek method works with labs and I've only used it for pups. Pups are still insecure enough to really get shook up if they can't find me. Mostly, as you seem to indicate Mr Grouse, it's about spending a lot of time with your dog to get the basics down. That's why my dogs live in the house with me. They learn many of the basic commands (sit, stay, here, etc.) simply in the course of living with us. The bond and desire to please is also much stronger than if they're just kept in a pen all the time. Also, spend as much time as you can walking the dog. They can learn a lot of obedience that way.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 3 days ago

As you can see from my profile photos, I start my lab pups hunting VERY young. This has worked well to instill in them early that they need to stay close when working upland birds. They can't see very far in the tall stuff and at that age they don't like to get out of sight from me. If they do, then I'll duck down till they come back. They learn to keep one eye on me while they're hunting. When they're that small that means staying well within range of my gun. The habit started early is easily carried forward as they grow.

Now, admittedly, training lab pups is different than training grown pointers/setters. My hide and seek method may not work in that case.

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from mr.grouse wrote 2 years 3 days ago

have some of the great labs myself i agree with you that time spent in the field and blind early in a dogs life are the best thing you can do.

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from lkkeeter wrote 1 year 10 weeks ago

southernUpLand- where did you find a hunting dog rescue? I really want to look into getting a duck hunting dog.

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from themcoons wrote 51 weeks 1 day ago

American Brittany Rescue for Brittanys for Quail. Ducks not sure.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 13 weeks ago

Well, he is a bit old for the usual regimen of training. Have you hunted over a pointing dog before? They are supposed to roam. Use a beeping collar that will tell you where he is when he's stopped moving and on point. However, you do need to ensure that he'll come back when summoned. If this is a problem, a shock collar might help, especially considering his age. A lot of dog treats in your pocket won't hurt either. Depending on the dog, it might even work better. One problem with some setters and pointers is deer or rabbits. They really have a strong urge to chase something that runs. I've seen an English setter that literally ran away if a deer sprang up. Could take days to find him. For something like this, I imagine a shock collar might be extremely useful. I've only raised and trained lab pups so can't advise you with much authority on the specifics of fine tuning this kind of dog. But it does sound like he has the instinct. Good luck!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Robert Ewing wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

As a rescue dog you have no idea what his experiences are in the field.All the training you would do with a pup could be used here,just go easy make the sessions short.Above all maintain your cool, you go off heavy handed it may cost you.A E-collar with a audible tone for correction and beeper to locate would work well. You don't know if he has carelessly over shocked before.If he is collar shy just put the receiver on him and forget it, let him get use to wearing it.In training use the tone to correct him. If he chases a deer or rabbit ,zapp him [start at #1]but don't say anything just look the other way.When he ranges out, a accessory beeper collar will help keep track of him .Zapp him if he gets too far out there or gone too long without checking in.You may have to turn it up to get him to responed ,then you can hide on him making him backtrack and find you [not to far from where he last saw you].Too much shocking can make them head strong so stay as low on the dial as you can so you have some reserve.Introduce the beeper collar slowly, turn it on in another room and leave it there for short periods of time up to 4 hours if you think he is shy.Most of all have fun with it ,you can have alot of fun getting to know a new dog.Remember if he does something stupid more often than not you set him up for it ,Have a laugh and start again.Hope this helps.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

If there's an e-collar out there that doesn't bust the bank, I'd like to know too. Haven't seen one yet. My brother bought an el-cheapo one several years ago and then found replacement batteries cost a fortune. Then couldn't get them at all. Bob Ewing's advice is worth printing up and keeping somewhere for present and future use. And I mean that. Thanks, for sharing it!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from themcoons wrote 51 weeks 1 day ago

American Brittany Rescue for Brittanys for Quail. Ducks not sure.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from SouthernUpland wrote 2 years 13 weeks ago

Thanks for the response. I have hunter over pointers, GSP's and Brits. I suppose what I meant by roam was he runs away until he decides to come back. When we take him out in the woods he'll disappear and then come back in an hour or so. He just goes on a joy run. He'll even zig-zag like a trained dog. I feel like he has promise, but people also don't get rid of trained dogs for fun. I may see if I can consult a trainer in my area.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 13 weeks ago

One way I have found to keep my pups from running too far is to simply disappear if they get out of sight. That usually freaks them out. When they finally find me I give em a good butt-chewing too (at least). But this isn't a lab or a pup. Still, I'm wondering if maybe you might try the same thing on a bit grander scale. Get out of the rig somewhere where you can hide good and then have someone else drive the truck off after the dog duffs for parts unknown. Hide yourself (maybe in a tree stand?), wait, and watch. Hopefully he'll get real nervous when he returns and sees he got left behind. If he doesn't then I'd say he doesn't give a darn. Not a very good quality in any kind of dog. Certainly will make training a challenge. If he does get nervous and upset then let him stew till it gets dark then reappear and give him the raspberries. It's an idea. Maybe not a good one. I've never had to deal with the problem on that scale. Or perhaps an e-collar may be the only answer.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from SouthernUpland wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

Thank you for your advice.

Just a few questions: when you mean puppy training- quail wing on a stick, "whoa" training, and so forth?

Also: in terms of e-collars, can you provide any suggestions for ones that won't completely bust the bank?

It would be great if I could get him to hunt a bit, but if not, he's one of the best looking setter's I've seen, so if he doesn't want to, no harm no foul. He'll be a great dog either way.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Robert Ewing wrote 2 years 12 weeks ago

Yes,all those to test and reinforce his interest in birds. Get a whoa barrel to teach him to be steady.Just praise him when your done,don't let him get on or off on his own and don't keep him on there forever.

I have not priced them out for awhile,I have Tri-tronics Field 90 G-2 gear.Mine controls the beeper unit that can be bought separatly.
Innotek has another one I liked,but you have to set your own price point.Just look for one that carries a audible tone and you can expand if nessary.Really no point to a beeper if he won't hunt other wise you should just keep him within site so he doesn't harass the wildlife. Have fun with him.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from mr.grouse wrote 2 years 4 days ago

teaching him a here command , voice and whistle will certainly keep him from roaming when you are out with him. do not play games like hide and seek you will never have any consistent obedience with something like that. the here command is one of the most important commands a dog should learn it can save a dogs life . this command in a well trained dog should be automatic when taught properly. nothing is more annoying than listening to someone trying to get their dog to come to them . here is a basic command ,teach it properly ,four year old dog be firm dont play games.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 3 days ago

I don't use an e-collar so have resorted to "games". I'll admit, the hide and seek method works with labs and I've only used it for pups. Pups are still insecure enough to really get shook up if they can't find me. Mostly, as you seem to indicate Mr Grouse, it's about spending a lot of time with your dog to get the basics down. That's why my dogs live in the house with me. They learn many of the basic commands (sit, stay, here, etc.) simply in the course of living with us. The bond and desire to please is also much stronger than if they're just kept in a pen all the time. Also, spend as much time as you can walking the dog. They can learn a lot of obedience that way.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 3 days ago

As you can see from my profile photos, I start my lab pups hunting VERY young. This has worked well to instill in them early that they need to stay close when working upland birds. They can't see very far in the tall stuff and at that age they don't like to get out of sight from me. If they do, then I'll duck down till they come back. They learn to keep one eye on me while they're hunting. When they're that small that means staying well within range of my gun. The habit started early is easily carried forward as they grow.

Now, admittedly, training lab pups is different than training grown pointers/setters. My hide and seek method may not work in that case.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from mr.grouse wrote 2 years 3 days ago

have some of the great labs myself i agree with you that time spent in the field and blind early in a dogs life are the best thing you can do.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from lkkeeter wrote 1 year 10 weeks ago

southernUpLand- where did you find a hunting dog rescue? I really want to look into getting a duck hunting dog.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

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