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Petzal: The Rules of Gunfighting

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February 04, 2009

Petzal: The Rules of Gunfighting

By David E. Petzal

Normally, this blog is dedicated to peaceful pursuits. However, SFC Frick speaks much wisdom. I am giving him a meritorious promotion to Command Sergeant Major (E-9).

(For more on this subject, visit our list of the five best gunfights of all time).

Drill Sergeant Joe B. Fricks Rules For A Gunfight

1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.
 
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive
 
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
 
5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)
 
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.
 
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
 
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause then to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"
 
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
 
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
 
11. Stretch the rules.  Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
 
12. Have a plan.
 
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."
 
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.
 
15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
 
16. Don't drop your guard.
 
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.
 
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)
 
19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
 
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
 
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.
 
22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.
 
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
 
24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".
 
25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw your gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.
 
26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.
 
27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.
 
28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."
 
Finally, Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.
 

1. Never be unarmed.

Comments (85)

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from mikapp wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

This is just GREAT!!!!!! I have been to a few self defense courses, but they have not covered the rules in this down to earth fashion - how right you are, and so far I have been lucky by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from rabbitpolice88 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

This is really good stuff. One thing I learned is it's easy to talk tuff when there is no danger, but the minuet you point a gun at someone you must be mentally prepared to pull the trigger.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from 60256 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Most of these are self-explanatory, but a couple of them are good. YOu need 4 times the ammo, but don't get shot with your own gun cause there's no ammo in there. That's where the planning comes in. The only problem i had was thinking of a time nowadays where a situation like that would happen.
And with the unarmed combat, that's getting harder today with all the permits and bans they got now.
Great article!

Nate

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Douglas wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Ancient proverb;
War does not determine who is right, War determines who is left.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

29. Bring the largest caliber weapon that you can handle comfortably.

30. There should only be a microsecond delay between the time your gun clears leather and the first primer detonation.

31. Never unholster your gun and point it without shooting unless the target (perp) has disappeared.

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from silsbyj wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Oh man....that is fantastic!!! While I was in Iraq we always did as many push-ups as we could and then practiced shooting with a pistol. Turns out its a hell of a lot harder to hit something when your heart rate is going crazy.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

There are more good quotes in that article than in "Blazing Saddles".

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from DanP wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Translations from German are hard enough without making it politically correct. Are you *sure* that is a sergeant? I don't know of any sergeant that would go that far out of his way to be pc.

"Alle Kunst ist emsunst wenn ein Engel auf das zundloch brunzt."

"All art comes to naught when an angel pees in your touch-hole."

+5 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

The first and best advice is to avoid this situation anyway possible. Killing another human being never works out quite like it appears on TV. Many cases of justified homocide end up with the skum bags family sueing the person who protected his life in civil court. Even if you win you may be ruined finacially. You also have to live with it the rest of your life...

Don't get me wrong, I have a carry permit and I am prepared as well as can be to defend my life. As a state police officer once told me, "Do everything you can to avoid killing someone if you find yourself in a bad situation. Don't draw your gun unless you know you are in dire peril and will depart this life if you don't take action. When you do draw the gun leave your attacker and any accomplice unable to tell thier story." His closing advice was exactly like point #28...

+12 Good Comment? | | Report
from Charley wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Excellent, concise and true.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

....Very sage instruction.

I had to snicker at the truth everyone wants a handgun, but the "vets" never want to fight with one when there's another option.

The other truth is a conviction is indeed very difficult when there's no testimony. And...

At my age if someone wants to sue me, they can stand in line.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mike Diehl wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I like Frick's rule the best. It's accurate, concise, and gets to the core of the matter.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

My Dad, a WWII (101st Airborne) and Korea (187th RCT) vet, gave me some sage advice concerning gunfights:

1. Avoid them at all cost. Someone is going to get hurt.

2. The best way to disarm an armed opponent is from a distance with a rifle.

3. The best weapon to bring to a pistol fight is a shotgun (12 gauge goes without saying). If you can't end the fight with a shotgun, then you probably have enough distance between you to escape (see #1).

4. Never draw or point a gun at anyone without firing. If you do, it is likely that the bad guy is going to take it from you.

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from vtbluegrass wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Number 9 is great "pucker" factor. Anyone who carries should go to pistol matches. A timer buzzer will get you heart racing and makes you forget your plan of attack. Its as close to the "pucker" factor as I hope to come.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

32. Use a shotgun, no smaller than 12 gauge.
33. Keep shotgun loaded. Racking in a round is movie s$&t, and can get you dead.
34. Use buckshot. 00 is good, #1 or #4 is better. (More pellets, the guy you shoot won't know the difference.)
35. Don't quit shooting until perp is down and DEAD.
36. Be prepared!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Walt Smith wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Don't forget that if they fall away from your door to drag them inside before the cops come. Lot less questions that way.

-3 Good Comment? | | Report
from davidpetzal wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

To Dan P.: Huh?

To Walt Smith: I got that very advice from a chief of police in the mid-1960s. I repeated it a couple of years ago to a New York State trooper, and he said that now, if you tamper with evidence a) you are guaranteed to be caught and b) you will probably go to prison where you would have skated had you left things alone.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from Walt Smith wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I received this advice from a Michigan state trooper in the mid eighties, but with todays csi you are probably right.So I guess the rule of thumb would be shoot straight and leave em where they lie. I can live with that!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff Bowers wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I never, NEVER forgot my first range coach at Parris Island;

"If you can drop 'em at 500 yards, you never have to fix bayonets."

Now, THAT would be "pucker factor".

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from Amflyer wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Quote: "31. Never unholster your gun and point it without shooting unless the target (perp) has disappeared."

I'm glad the police don't teach this...would make felony stops more exciting but add to paperwork I would imagine.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Amflyer

#31. Believe it. Forget the police. They only show up after the firefight.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Love2Hunt wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

These are some great tips and advice. While I think the majority of them are more military applicable it is still good information to know. It is amazing though how much more difficult it is to shot when your heart is beating crazy and your adrenaline is pumping. GOOD tips though.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I'd like to see that written on parchment and framed. Could sell a few of those at gun shows.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tim Platt wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

My old friend the Lt.Col. had the rules for engagement on his wall. The two I remember are "tracer's work both ways" and "friendly fire isn't"...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Got to give Dave two thumbs and two big toes up on this one!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Harold wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Frick makes it sound like a gunfight is something you know you're going to get into beforehand, like an invitation-only event. How am I supposed to know when I'm going to be in a gunfight? If I knew I was going to one, I wouldn't go-bullets fly both directions, you know. So what am I supposed to do, carry all that armament around with me when I go to wally-world and the post office? The whole premise for this is dumb!

-7 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Harold,
Not really, perhaps it was written for military/police personnel, but it is a well written clue for civilians also. Be prepared and ready to defend yourself. And don't stop defending yourself.

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from Steven9253 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Harold the article starting off with Drill Sergeant Frick is a dead give away that this is going to aim more towards milltary. Mr. Petzal do you know where he is a drill sergeant at? I went to Fort Knox and was just curious.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Del in KS wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Not to mention (like me) he may have retired from service 19 yr ago. Some guys have worn the round brown more than once and sometimes at different Forts.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Del in KS wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

NOS but has anyone noticed the Messiah is having problems with his appointments being crooks? Daschle is done. The Clintonista he picked for CIA is in trouble among others.
There was a problem earlier. You can click my name and see that big gator in Mims Fla with a pig in his mouth now. My brother lived there for 35 years.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Harold wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Jim and Steven,

Thanks for the response, but these "rules" were obviously meant for civilians. When the baloon goes up in a military or police situation you don't have to worry about what armament to bring or what your comrades should bring. All that is provided for them. Some of the points are cogent but overall the piece reeks of testosterone. As a licensed concealed weapons carrier myself I realize the best gunfight is the one you avoid. If you absolutely can't avoid one then some of the above rules are right on, but the fact is most honest civilians won't know they're in a gunfight until seconds before the first round goes off.

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from Shaky wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Very good piece. My instructor for both ccw licenses and defensive combat stressed making sure the aggression was halted permanently and immediately. Next, immediately call 911 requesting an ambulance for a gunshot wounded patient. Also request police attendance, although that detail is a given. When asked why you shot the perp, you simply reply, "to atop the aggression", don't volunteer information, because in your emotional condition, you are likely to say something that, when the relatives read the police report, will give them grounds for lawsuit. Just make sure the perp can't testify. He also stressed the point that you should be prepared to defend yourself,and yours, BEFORE you pocket your gun, don't wait til it's time to take action, because if you wait, the perp WILL kill you, because of your indecision.
My instructor is a captain in the city police force.

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from Shaky wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Sorry, that should read "to stop the aggression".

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from Carney wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Few things rival the down to earth perspectives of Jeff Cooper but this collection should get a prize! (The double negative in #24 excepted...)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from AlaskanExile wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I don't believe that this is original, I've seen most of it before, but this is a great collection of words to live by (or keep living).

Don't move the body or touch any evidence, call the police, call an ambulance, call your lawyer, and don't say anything more.

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from davidpetzal wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

For Steven 9253: I have no idea what Drill Sergeant Frick's background is. This was forwarded to me by a former SF officer who once gave me some good advice on the subject, to wit:

"The day you buy a gun for self-defense, you should also hire a lawyer to defend you when you use it."

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from TommyNash wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

As an attorney (don't let that sad fact get beyond this blog and out in to the public) #28 is key. Reasonable belief is a jury question....make sure they always have reason to believe you....and when the smoke clears, there only needs to be one story the jury hears, not two.

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from Scott Kittinger wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Way to go Tommy. Right on. We're issued a Glock 22 to carry with us in our business. We're also issued 2 extra mags. That's 46 rounds. I hope never to clear leather with it but that's how many holes they'll find if I ever do. "Stop the aggression" is exactly why. Someone else wrote that about a second before it starts is when you'll find out you're in it. Very true so be prepared as in Rule 21. Great thread, Dave.

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from Amflyer wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter: What I mean is this; there are times in law enforcement and military work when it may advantageous to NOT shoot the person you are holding at gunpoint, although the prison crowding issued would be greatly lessened.

As for civilians, I recommend that they carry a gun because a policeman is too heavy.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Amflyer

Your point is well taken. Having served in both professions, you are correct in pointing out that there are times when holding someone at gunpoint is appropriate. As a citizen who will defend himself, family, and property against all enemies, foreign and domestic, my rules of engagement for an armed adversary do not include apprehension, just "shoot, shoot, look, shoot".

All,

Will those of you that have actually been in a firefight and DID NOT follow the rules above, please stand up.

Oh, how silly of me. You are on the wrong side of the grass or in a wheelchair.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from waterdrinker9 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

These rules apply to anyone that gets in a gun fight. Don't worry about the cops because like someone else said, they will be there after the fight. Tell the cops that they were going to kill you. It isn't like your opponent is going to get up and say, "He is lying, he tried shooting me first." Also, you can change your pants when you get home. There is nothing wrong with crapping in your pants during a gun fight because it will be the scariest time of your life. The only thing that matters is that you live to be able to change your pants.

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from wingshooter54 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

In the words of Bill Jordan (No Second Place Winner) "Take your time...fast!"

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Devil_Dog wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

While I believe #2 to be gospel for the military, as Harold pointed out, this is definitely oriented to civilians. Having just completed my NC CCW class, I can tell you that #2 will get you state sponsored vacation behind bars. Also, it is truly a sad fact that you can be sued into financial ruin by protecting your own life.

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from jamesti wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

when you have kids and a wife in your house that rely on you to protect them, why take chances? if someone enters your house in the middle of the night and evryone that lives there is asleep, they obviously aren't there for coffe and conversation. with the economy the way it is we are going to see an increase in home break-ins and as a result people getting hurt or killed. make sure your family is safe and shoot first. it's your house not theirs. don't move the body and say nothing more than you need to until your attorney is available to say it for you. if someone breaks into your home, they know what the consequences might be and should be ready to face them. no excuses. just know where your family is and don't shoot them!

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from william giordano wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

AS a retired cop I say that the most important rule of all is number 28. If you are protecting your life, you will never get convicted [ unless the bad guy is the mayors idiot son ]. As the good sargeant says, " he was going to kill me". Then keep your mouth shut.

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from Zermoid wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I have heard and always believed in this advise:
"Be mentally ready to kill your attacker before you draw your weapon, if you draw it and don't shoot the only person your gun will kill is you"

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from Tim Platt wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Now that the ambiguity of the post has been exposed by Harold I'm going to have to agree... you normally don't know you're going to have a gunfight unless you are military or police responding to one in progress or a criminal and this is obviously aimed at honest civilians. So throw out rules 1, 6, 12, 13, 18, 21, and 22. Rule 28 should be tattooed in your mind if you carry. I don't repo cars or spend a lot of time in bad neighborhoods or crack houses and I drink too much so I rarely carry. I can count the times I have concealed carried while not hunting in the last year on one hand. When I do carry it starts with a 4 and if it comes out someone will die even if it is me.

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from Happy Myles wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

A while back, an 80 year old South African lady surprised four chaps as they broke down her door with a sledgehammer. Her two Jack Russell,s instantly attacked, while she blazed away with her 9mm, killing one intruder and wounding another. The other two are still running. As far as I know, there were no canines injured by the hail of gunfire as she emptied a clip at the hapless scalawags.

Rumor has it, at the time of the occurrence, she was petit pointing Sgt Frick's Rules for A Gunfight #2 to hang next to an earlier embroidery work, God Bless Our Home.

#2 - Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice

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from ishawooa wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

These rules have been emailed around for the last month or so. I don't know Sgt. Frick but apparently he is well versed in armed conflict. It is difficult to fault his rules and I would prefer not to be his opponent. If you can't remember them then print the rules out for frequent referral in case you encounter a situation that bears utilizing any or all.

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from JIMMY JOSHIN wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

rules for gun fighting....I say rules for life!!!!

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from duckcreekdick wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Seems like most of these rules apply more to a foot patrol in Ramadi at its worst. If that's the case, I'd suggest a good man on a SAW and an assortment of your favorite hand grenades and flashbangs.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I like rule #1b. Never be unarmed.

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from mattreney wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

call the cops, then your attourney. if you call them first it looks like you thought did something wrong. and in court you can argue that you tried to help them by calling the cops who would bring the emt's and if you shoot and it doesnt kill them dont keep shooting unless their still armed. if you empty a clip into an unarmed man your looking to be arrested. and dont flip out on the cops. as soon as they identify themselves before they come in put the gun down so you dont look like a threat. they will most likely handcuff you while they sort things out. you dont need to keep your mouth shut just be carful what you say if you need to change the story you did something wrong and will have to pay.

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from tab6491 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

In my opinion if you are about to shoot for blood you shouldn't be worrying about legal consequences. Like Jeff Cooper says about being in condition red, you are at the point of no return, and all you concentrate on is pressing the trigger and feeling the break. Like they say, it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.

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from robert wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

magazine, it's called a magazine.
Shoot to kill, we don't carry no stinking stun guns.
forget all this nonsense about rules to a gunfight.
1) Carry a gun
2) be mentally and physically prepared to use it

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from CPT BRAD wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

Excellent!! I have actually printed these and posted them in my workplace! Of course my workplace being and old Iraqi Airbase that we "reused" that went well with my coworkers, the ACLU, Brady Bunch, and all the other Antis weren't called. To bad we can't all have a workplace like that!

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from GunsKill wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

Or maybe, 29. Live in a country where nobody carries a gun! Surest way to stay alive.

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from mmcnary wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

I;m glad I live in MO. With the castle doctrine, if they come through the door uninvited, they can leave feet first. And the families have no civil recourse.

Oh, and gunskill, sorry, I mean GunsKill, I guess by your definition Washington DC and New York must be the safest cities in the US. And tell me all about how safe it in in Britain where any home invader knows for sure that the owners are not armed.

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from qbzzt wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

GunsKill: Or maybe, 29. Live in a country where nobody carries a gun! Surest way to stay alive.

Ori: There are several problems with this theory:

1. AFAIK, all governments are dismal failures when it comes to preventing drugs from being imported into their country. Why do you think preventing guns from being imported, or produced locally, is easier?

2. Plenty of murders were committed prior to the invention of gunpowder. Guns can kill people. So can knives, clubs, and bare hands. An eighty year old granny with a gun can kill a buff twenty year old hoodlum, even if he has a gun too - so he has reasons not to attack her. If they are both unarmed or using clubs, he knows he'll win - so there is a lot less deterrence.

It would be nice to live in a world without violence, but violence is a part of human nature. That being the case, it's a matter of finding ways to deal with it instead of closing our eyes and wishing it would go away.

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from charlesh wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

I think he should be general with a whole lot of stars. This is great and all true.

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from billyf65 wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

You might feel guilt.

Dead is forever.

Confession is every Saturday afternoon.

RE: Walt...

My grandfather was a police sergeant in the 50s/60s. He taught my grandmother to shoot and gave her the same advice. But I expect that was then...

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

I like those rules, but you never know when you are going to get into a gunfight and all that will go out the window as soon as a gun comes out.

Here are the rules I train.

(1) Have a gun. Never draw it if you can run away.

You never know you are going to a gunfight, so you won't be carrying a lot of baggage. Expect to live or diwe with what you carry everyday.

(2) Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. (this is mine, but I might have learned it in Krav Maga.)This basically means to live in yellow.

(3) Start shooting when you clear leather. The debate is over. Assume that every round is your last one.

(4) Do not train yourself to put every round in the '10' ring. Train yourself to reliably put every round in the black part of the silhouette in low light while you are moving. Because in real life you have to take the shot. You can't hesitate and you can't wait for a perfect sight picture. You will never get one.

(5) You can only engage one opponent at a time. Don't worry about anyone else. Shoot your opponent to the ground and then shoot him on the ground. Reload.

(6)Get off the "X" and look around. If you still hear gunfire, you aren't finished with the fight.

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from Jerky wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Only in America, eh? Maybe one day you guys will wake up and realise that there might be a link between your attitude to guns and the killing that happens on the streets and in the schools in your country? How about you all grow up a bit and start acting less like 12-year old cowboys?

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

"Only in America, eh? Maybe one day you guys will wake up and realise that there might be a link between your attitude to guns and the killing that happens on the streets and in the schools in your country? How about you all grow up a bit and start acting less like 12-year old cowboys?"

I was a Deputy Sheriff for 30 years in LA County after 4 years in the Marine Corps and 2 in Viet-Nam. I have been involved in multiple pistol combats and I never fired first, only because it takes a second to register that someone is shooting at you. I once arrived at a benign call in an unmarked car. I stepped out of the car, heard gunshots, and the guy had fired five at my back from about twenty feet away before I realized I was in a gunfight. You call it 'cowboy' if you like, but I am here writing this and the other guy isn't because I did what I just wrote about.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

tc399

I salute you for your service to our sometimes ungrateful nation, sir!

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from oneshotonekill wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

A couple things:
Most "bad" guys aren't used to being shot at. Take your time, AIM. Present a small target - side, prone, etc. Is the safety on? Is the gun ready to fire? Be deliberate. Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice- just for insurance.
I recommend amateurs pull the trigger and keep pulling it until the other person is down and out or the gun is empty. Always keep extra ammo/clip near the weapon. Don't close your eyes- squeeze the trigger.
Remember "do unto others before they do unto you"- save the emotions- just shoot them, don't think about it. No one I killed ever complained, neither will they. Better them than you.
Lastly-- kill everyone- let God sort it out.

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I recommend amateurs pull the trigger and keep pulling it until the other person is down and out or the gun is empty.
-oneshotonekill

Many people don't have a choice. I am one of them. I train tactical pistol: two center mass, regain the sight picture and take the shot if there is still a target. But when it happens, at least half the people I know, including me, shoot to slide lock in a gunfight even if we don't plan to. I shoot a single stack .45 with Win +P Black Talon 230 grain HP slugs. It takes about four seconds to dump eight of them and I do it. If you are concentrating on the target you don't even necessarily know he is down until reload time.

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from BartKing wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Basketball player Rudy Fernandez has an interesting twist on this list at: http://blogderudyfernandez.blogspot.com/2009/02/deadly-lines-approach.ht...

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from Kit wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

My godfather's a State Trooper, and he taught me if it ever came to to it - shoot the attacker while yelling stop, then fire the last round into a ceiling or wall you know has no-one on the other side of it.
Anyone who heard gunshots and screaming also heard you fire that 'warning shot', and there's the proof.

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from sushirama wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

1. Dead men tell no tales and there's less paperwork involved.

2. There is no greater attention getter than the sound of an 870 Wingmaster Slide.

3. Lose speed, lose deed.

4. If you aint cheating you're aint trying hard enough.

The other 3 Rules that apply in all situations are :

1 - never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected.

2 - take it outside.

3 - be nice...until it's time to not be nice.

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from lamarlowe wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

With regard to rule #8, I think that if someone is aiming a firearm in my general direction, one of the last things I would want to do is yell "Fire!" :)

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from NYhunter wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

good rules!!!! that is the best thing I'VE read for a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 5 weeks ago

I found out where Petz lifted the rules. I hadn't seen it for a long time, but here it is.

USMC Rules For Gun Fighting

* Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
* Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
* Only hits count. A close miss is still a miss.
* If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
* Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movements are preferred.)
* If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
* In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics.
* They will only remember who lived.
* If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
* Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
* Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.
* Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
* Always cheat = always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
* Have a plan.
* Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
* Use cover and concealment as much as possible.
* Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
* Don't drop your guard.
* Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.
* Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
* Decide to be AGGRESSIVE enough, QUICKLY enough.
* The faster you finish the fight, the less shot up you will get.
* Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
* Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
* Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4".

Navy Rules for Gun Fighting

* Go to Sea
* Send the Marines
* Drink Coffee

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from 16gapheasantphiend wrote 5 years 5 weeks ago

you dont need to worry about the gun fight if you take the correct precautions such as ap mines, claymores driveway alarms etc, lol oh and dont forget to leave the dogs squeeky toys in front of all entry points!

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from JCDunn wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

holy hell, best...list...ever
well done!!!! thumbs up!!!!
'nuff said

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from Peter Campbell wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

Words to live (and possibly die) by.

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from wookles wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

In response to number one about bringing four times the ammunition. I carry 4 extra magazines for my .45 in my laptop bag, it sure makes it heavy but I know I'll almost have enough.

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from kodnocker wrote 4 years 22 weeks ago

I like the last thing in the article.

Never Be Unarmed.

Makes me think of the Clint Eastwood movie Unforgiven.
This guy tells Eastwood that he just shot an unarmed man!

Eastwood replies: "he should have armed himself!"

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from coho310 wrote 4 years 22 weeks ago

I remember it;
*Bring a gun,prefeably two guns

*Drink a flask,preferably scotch

*Avoid showing up

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from Big-D wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

In regards to rule 27.You WILL get over it. The easiest way is to remember that your enemy is less than human, KILL THE BASTARD AND DRIVE THE F%$# ON!

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from By_Karizma wrote 3 years 21 weeks ago

Thanks Super

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from By_Karizma wrote 3 years 21 weeks ago

Thanks Super
Good seslichatiz
you

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from By_Karizma wrote 3 years 21 weeks ago

Others are good SesliSohbet thinking Thanks admin...

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from Tristatedrugs wrote 2 years 49 weeks ago

Good..Keep going...Save upto 75% to 85% from retail prices by ordering online. Safe, Effective, Quality Generic Medicines - Accompanied by Fastest Delivery World-Wide @ http://www.tristatedrugs.com

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from ScottyBee wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

" 28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney." "

I love this one! It's so funny yet so true. Reminds me of one of the www.buckcommander.com guys. Can't remember his name but I can picture him saying something like this after a "bru haha."

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from Beekeeper wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

The first and best advice is to avoid this situation anyway possible. Killing another human being never works out quite like it appears on TV. Many cases of justified homocide end up with the skum bags family sueing the person who protected his life in civil court. Even if you win you may be ruined finacially. You also have to live with it the rest of your life...

Don't get me wrong, I have a carry permit and I am prepared as well as can be to defend my life. As a state police officer once told me, "Do everything you can to avoid killing someone if you find yourself in a bad situation. Don't draw your gun unless you know you are in dire peril and will depart this life if you don't take action. When you do draw the gun leave your attacker and any accomplice unable to tell thier story." His closing advice was exactly like point #28...

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from davidpetzal wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

To Dan P.: Huh?

To Walt Smith: I got that very advice from a chief of police in the mid-1960s. I repeated it a couple of years ago to a New York State trooper, and he said that now, if you tamper with evidence a) you are guaranteed to be caught and b) you will probably go to prison where you would have skated had you left things alone.

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from TommyNash wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

As an attorney (don't let that sad fact get beyond this blog and out in to the public) #28 is key. Reasonable belief is a jury question....make sure they always have reason to believe you....and when the smoke clears, there only needs to be one story the jury hears, not two.

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I never, NEVER forgot my first range coach at Parris Island;

"If you can drop 'em at 500 yards, you never have to fix bayonets."

Now, THAT would be "pucker factor".

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

29. Bring the largest caliber weapon that you can handle comfortably.

30. There should only be a microsecond delay between the time your gun clears leather and the first primer detonation.

31. Never unholster your gun and point it without shooting unless the target (perp) has disappeared.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

My Dad, a WWII (101st Airborne) and Korea (187th RCT) vet, gave me some sage advice concerning gunfights:

1. Avoid them at all cost. Someone is going to get hurt.

2. The best way to disarm an armed opponent is from a distance with a rifle.

3. The best weapon to bring to a pistol fight is a shotgun (12 gauge goes without saying). If you can't end the fight with a shotgun, then you probably have enough distance between you to escape (see #1).

4. Never draw or point a gun at anyone without firing. If you do, it is likely that the bad guy is going to take it from you.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Harold,
Not really, perhaps it was written for military/police personnel, but it is a well written clue for civilians also. Be prepared and ready to defend yourself. And don't stop defending yourself.

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from DanP wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Translations from German are hard enough without making it politically correct. Are you *sure* that is a sergeant? I don't know of any sergeant that would go that far out of his way to be pc.

"Alle Kunst ist emsunst wenn ein Engel auf das zundloch brunzt."

"All art comes to naught when an angel pees in your touch-hole."

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from crm3006 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

32. Use a shotgun, no smaller than 12 gauge.
33. Keep shotgun loaded. Racking in a round is movie s$&t, and can get you dead.
34. Use buckshot. 00 is good, #1 or #4 is better. (More pellets, the guy you shoot won't know the difference.)
35. Don't quit shooting until perp is down and DEAD.
36. Be prepared!

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from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I'd like to see that written on parchment and framed. Could sell a few of those at gun shows.

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from rabbitpolice88 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

This is really good stuff. One thing I learned is it's easy to talk tuff when there is no danger, but the minuet you point a gun at someone you must be mentally prepared to pull the trigger.

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from silsbyj wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Oh man....that is fantastic!!! While I was in Iraq we always did as many push-ups as we could and then practiced shooting with a pistol. Turns out its a hell of a lot harder to hit something when your heart rate is going crazy.

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from Douglas wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Ancient proverb;
War does not determine who is right, War determines who is left.

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from jamesti wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

when you have kids and a wife in your house that rely on you to protect them, why take chances? if someone enters your house in the middle of the night and evryone that lives there is asleep, they obviously aren't there for coffe and conversation. with the economy the way it is we are going to see an increase in home break-ins and as a result people getting hurt or killed. make sure your family is safe and shoot first. it's your house not theirs. don't move the body and say nothing more than you need to until your attorney is available to say it for you. if someone breaks into your home, they know what the consequences might be and should be ready to face them. no excuses. just know where your family is and don't shoot them!

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from 60256 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Most of these are self-explanatory, but a couple of them are good. YOu need 4 times the ammo, but don't get shot with your own gun cause there's no ammo in there. That's where the planning comes in. The only problem i had was thinking of a time nowadays where a situation like that would happen.
And with the unarmed combat, that's getting harder today with all the permits and bans they got now.
Great article!

Nate

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from buckhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

There are more good quotes in that article than in "Blazing Saddles".

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from mikapp wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

This is just GREAT!!!!!! I have been to a few self defense courses, but they have not covered the rules in this down to earth fashion - how right you are, and so far I have been lucky by not being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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from Harold wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Jim and Steven,

Thanks for the response, but these "rules" were obviously meant for civilians. When the baloon goes up in a military or police situation you don't have to worry about what armament to bring or what your comrades should bring. All that is provided for them. Some of the points are cogent but overall the piece reeks of testosterone. As a licensed concealed weapons carrier myself I realize the best gunfight is the one you avoid. If you absolutely can't avoid one then some of the above rules are right on, but the fact is most honest civilians won't know they're in a gunfight until seconds before the first round goes off.

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from davidpetzal wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

For Steven 9253: I have no idea what Drill Sergeant Frick's background is. This was forwarded to me by a former SF officer who once gave me some good advice on the subject, to wit:

"The day you buy a gun for self-defense, you should also hire a lawyer to defend you when you use it."

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from Carney wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Few things rival the down to earth perspectives of Jeff Cooper but this collection should get a prize! (The double negative in #24 excepted...)

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

tc399

I salute you for your service to our sometimes ungrateful nation, sir!

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from Mike Diehl wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I like Frick's rule the best. It's accurate, concise, and gets to the core of the matter.

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from Del in KS wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Not to mention (like me) he may have retired from service 19 yr ago. Some guys have worn the round brown more than once and sometimes at different Forts.

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from Tim Platt wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

My old friend the Lt.Col. had the rules for engagement on his wall. The two I remember are "tracer's work both ways" and "friendly fire isn't"...

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from Love2Hunt wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

These are some great tips and advice. While I think the majority of them are more military applicable it is still good information to know. It is amazing though how much more difficult it is to shot when your heart is beating crazy and your adrenaline is pumping. GOOD tips though.

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from duckcreekdick wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Seems like most of these rules apply more to a foot patrol in Ramadi at its worst. If that's the case, I'd suggest a good man on a SAW and an assortment of your favorite hand grenades and flashbangs.

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from mmcnary wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

I;m glad I live in MO. With the castle doctrine, if they come through the door uninvited, they can leave feet first. And the families have no civil recourse.

Oh, and gunskill, sorry, I mean GunsKill, I guess by your definition Washington DC and New York must be the safest cities in the US. And tell me all about how safe it in in Britain where any home invader knows for sure that the owners are not armed.

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from qbzzt wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

GunsKill: Or maybe, 29. Live in a country where nobody carries a gun! Surest way to stay alive.

Ori: There are several problems with this theory:

1. AFAIK, all governments are dismal failures when it comes to preventing drugs from being imported into their country. Why do you think preventing guns from being imported, or produced locally, is easier?

2. Plenty of murders were committed prior to the invention of gunpowder. Guns can kill people. So can knives, clubs, and bare hands. An eighty year old granny with a gun can kill a buff twenty year old hoodlum, even if he has a gun too - so he has reasons not to attack her. If they are both unarmed or using clubs, he knows he'll win - so there is a lot less deterrence.

It would be nice to live in a world without violence, but violence is a part of human nature. That being the case, it's a matter of finding ways to deal with it instead of closing our eyes and wishing it would go away.

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

I like those rules, but you never know when you are going to get into a gunfight and all that will go out the window as soon as a gun comes out.

Here are the rules I train.

(1) Have a gun. Never draw it if you can run away.

You never know you are going to a gunfight, so you won't be carrying a lot of baggage. Expect to live or diwe with what you carry everyday.

(2) Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. (this is mine, but I might have learned it in Krav Maga.)This basically means to live in yellow.

(3) Start shooting when you clear leather. The debate is over. Assume that every round is your last one.

(4) Do not train yourself to put every round in the '10' ring. Train yourself to reliably put every round in the black part of the silhouette in low light while you are moving. Because in real life you have to take the shot. You can't hesitate and you can't wait for a perfect sight picture. You will never get one.

(5) You can only engage one opponent at a time. Don't worry about anyone else. Shoot your opponent to the ground and then shoot him on the ground. Reload.

(6)Get off the "X" and look around. If you still hear gunfire, you aren't finished with the fight.

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

"Only in America, eh? Maybe one day you guys will wake up and realise that there might be a link between your attitude to guns and the killing that happens on the streets and in the schools in your country? How about you all grow up a bit and start acting less like 12-year old cowboys?"

I was a Deputy Sheriff for 30 years in LA County after 4 years in the Marine Corps and 2 in Viet-Nam. I have been involved in multiple pistol combats and I never fired first, only because it takes a second to register that someone is shooting at you. I once arrived at a benign call in an unmarked car. I stepped out of the car, heard gunshots, and the guy had fired five at my back from about twenty feet away before I realized I was in a gunfight. You call it 'cowboy' if you like, but I am here writing this and the other guy isn't because I did what I just wrote about.

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from oneshotonekill wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

A couple things:
Most "bad" guys aren't used to being shot at. Take your time, AIM. Present a small target - side, prone, etc. Is the safety on? Is the gun ready to fire? Be deliberate. Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice- just for insurance.
I recommend amateurs pull the trigger and keep pulling it until the other person is down and out or the gun is empty. Always keep extra ammo/clip near the weapon. Don't close your eyes- squeeze the trigger.
Remember "do unto others before they do unto you"- save the emotions- just shoot them, don't think about it. No one I killed ever complained, neither will they. Better them than you.
Lastly-- kill everyone- let God sort it out.

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from BartKing wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Basketball player Rudy Fernandez has an interesting twist on this list at: http://blogderudyfernandez.blogspot.com/2009/02/deadly-lines-approach.ht...

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from 16gapheasantphiend wrote 5 years 5 weeks ago

you dont need to worry about the gun fight if you take the correct precautions such as ap mines, claymores driveway alarms etc, lol oh and dont forget to leave the dogs squeeky toys in front of all entry points!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Got to give Dave two thumbs and two big toes up on this one!

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from Walt Smith wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I received this advice from a Michigan state trooper in the mid eighties, but with todays csi you are probably right.So I guess the rule of thumb would be shoot straight and leave em where they lie. I can live with that!

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from vtbluegrass wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Number 9 is great "pucker" factor. Anyone who carries should go to pistol matches. A timer buzzer will get you heart racing and makes you forget your plan of attack. Its as close to the "pucker" factor as I hope to come.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Amflyer

#31. Believe it. Forget the police. They only show up after the firefight.

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from Devil_Dog wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

While I believe #2 to be gospel for the military, as Harold pointed out, this is definitely oriented to civilians. Having just completed my NC CCW class, I can tell you that #2 will get you state sponsored vacation behind bars. Also, it is truly a sad fact that you can be sued into financial ruin by protecting your own life.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I like rule #1b. Never be unarmed.

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from Charley wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Excellent, concise and true.

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from Tim Platt wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Now that the ambiguity of the post has been exposed by Harold I'm going to have to agree... you normally don't know you're going to have a gunfight unless you are military or police responding to one in progress or a criminal and this is obviously aimed at honest civilians. So throw out rules 1, 6, 12, 13, 18, 21, and 22. Rule 28 should be tattooed in your mind if you carry. I don't repo cars or spend a lot of time in bad neighborhoods or crack houses and I drink too much so I rarely carry. I can count the times I have concealed carried while not hunting in the last year on one hand. When I do carry it starts with a 4 and if it comes out someone will die even if it is me.

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from ishawooa wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

These rules have been emailed around for the last month or so. I don't know Sgt. Frick but apparently he is well versed in armed conflict. It is difficult to fault his rules and I would prefer not to be his opponent. If you can't remember them then print the rules out for frequent referral in case you encounter a situation that bears utilizing any or all.

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from Scott Kittinger wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Way to go Tommy. Right on. We're issued a Glock 22 to carry with us in our business. We're also issued 2 extra mags. That's 46 rounds. I hope never to clear leather with it but that's how many holes they'll find if I ever do. "Stop the aggression" is exactly why. Someone else wrote that about a second before it starts is when you'll find out you're in it. Very true so be prepared as in Rule 21. Great thread, Dave.

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from Mark-1 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

....Very sage instruction.

I had to snicker at the truth everyone wants a handgun, but the "vets" never want to fight with one when there's another option.

The other truth is a conviction is indeed very difficult when there's no testimony. And...

At my age if someone wants to sue me, they can stand in line.

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from Happy Myles wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

A while back, an 80 year old South African lady surprised four chaps as they broke down her door with a sledgehammer. Her two Jack Russell,s instantly attacked, while she blazed away with her 9mm, killing one intruder and wounding another. The other two are still running. As far as I know, there were no canines injured by the hail of gunfire as she emptied a clip at the hapless scalawags.

Rumor has it, at the time of the occurrence, she was petit pointing Sgt Frick's Rules for A Gunfight #2 to hang next to an earlier embroidery work, God Bless Our Home.

#2 - Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice

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from wingshooter54 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

In the words of Bill Jordan (No Second Place Winner) "Take your time...fast!"

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from Shaky wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Very good piece. My instructor for both ccw licenses and defensive combat stressed making sure the aggression was halted permanently and immediately. Next, immediately call 911 requesting an ambulance for a gunshot wounded patient. Also request police attendance, although that detail is a given. When asked why you shot the perp, you simply reply, "to atop the aggression", don't volunteer information, because in your emotional condition, you are likely to say something that, when the relatives read the police report, will give them grounds for lawsuit. Just make sure the perp can't testify. He also stressed the point that you should be prepared to defend yourself,and yours, BEFORE you pocket your gun, don't wait til it's time to take action, because if you wait, the perp WILL kill you, because of your indecision.
My instructor is a captain in the city police force.

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from Shaky wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Sorry, that should read "to stop the aggression".

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from william giordano wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

AS a retired cop I say that the most important rule of all is number 28. If you are protecting your life, you will never get convicted [ unless the bad guy is the mayors idiot son ]. As the good sargeant says, " he was going to kill me". Then keep your mouth shut.

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from CPT BRAD wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

Excellent!! I have actually printed these and posted them in my workplace! Of course my workplace being and old Iraqi Airbase that we "reused" that went well with my coworkers, the ACLU, Brady Bunch, and all the other Antis weren't called. To bad we can't all have a workplace like that!

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from mattreney wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

call the cops, then your attourney. if you call them first it looks like you thought did something wrong. and in court you can argue that you tried to help them by calling the cops who would bring the emt's and if you shoot and it doesnt kill them dont keep shooting unless their still armed. if you empty a clip into an unarmed man your looking to be arrested. and dont flip out on the cops. as soon as they identify themselves before they come in put the gun down so you dont look like a threat. they will most likely handcuff you while they sort things out. you dont need to keep your mouth shut just be carful what you say if you need to change the story you did something wrong and will have to pay.

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from AlaskanExile wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I don't believe that this is original, I've seen most of it before, but this is a great collection of words to live by (or keep living).

Don't move the body or touch any evidence, call the police, call an ambulance, call your lawyer, and don't say anything more.

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from Zermoid wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

I have heard and always believed in this advise:
"Be mentally ready to kill your attacker before you draw your weapon, if you draw it and don't shoot the only person your gun will kill is you"

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from waterdrinker9 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

These rules apply to anyone that gets in a gun fight. Don't worry about the cops because like someone else said, they will be there after the fight. Tell the cops that they were going to kill you. It isn't like your opponent is going to get up and say, "He is lying, he tried shooting me first." Also, you can change your pants when you get home. There is nothing wrong with crapping in your pants during a gun fight because it will be the scariest time of your life. The only thing that matters is that you live to be able to change your pants.

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from Amflyer wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Quote: "31. Never unholster your gun and point it without shooting unless the target (perp) has disappeared."

I'm glad the police don't teach this...would make felony stops more exciting but add to paperwork I would imagine.

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from Amflyer wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter: What I mean is this; there are times in law enforcement and military work when it may advantageous to NOT shoot the person you are holding at gunpoint, although the prison crowding issued would be greatly lessened.

As for civilians, I recommend that they carry a gun because a policeman is too heavy.

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from JIMMY JOSHIN wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

rules for gun fighting....I say rules for life!!!!

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from tab6491 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

In my opinion if you are about to shoot for blood you shouldn't be worrying about legal consequences. Like Jeff Cooper says about being in condition red, you are at the point of no return, and all you concentrate on is pressing the trigger and feeling the break. Like they say, it is better to be tried by twelve than to be carried by six.

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from robert wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

magazine, it's called a magazine.
Shoot to kill, we don't carry no stinking stun guns.
forget all this nonsense about rules to a gunfight.
1) Carry a gun
2) be mentally and physically prepared to use it

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from charlesh wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

I think he should be general with a whole lot of stars. This is great and all true.

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from billyf65 wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

You might feel guilt.

Dead is forever.

Confession is every Saturday afternoon.

RE: Walt...

My grandfather was a police sergeant in the 50s/60s. He taught my grandmother to shoot and gave her the same advice. But I expect that was then...

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

I recommend amateurs pull the trigger and keep pulling it until the other person is down and out or the gun is empty.
-oneshotonekill

Many people don't have a choice. I am one of them. I train tactical pistol: two center mass, regain the sight picture and take the shot if there is still a target. But when it happens, at least half the people I know, including me, shoot to slide lock in a gunfight even if we don't plan to. I shoot a single stack .45 with Win +P Black Talon 230 grain HP slugs. It takes about four seconds to dump eight of them and I do it. If you are concentrating on the target you don't even necessarily know he is down until reload time.

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from tc399 wrote 5 years 5 weeks ago

I found out where Petz lifted the rules. I hadn't seen it for a long time, but here it is.

USMC Rules For Gun Fighting

* Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.
* Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
* Only hits count. A close miss is still a miss.
* If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
* Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movements are preferred.)
* If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
* In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics.
* They will only remember who lived.
* If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
* Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
* Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.
* Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
* Always cheat = always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
* Have a plan.
* Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
* Use cover and concealment as much as possible.
* Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
* Don't drop your guard.
* Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.
* Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
* Decide to be AGGRESSIVE enough, QUICKLY enough.
* The faster you finish the fight, the less shot up you will get.
* Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
* Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
* Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4".

Navy Rules for Gun Fighting

* Go to Sea
* Send the Marines
* Drink Coffee

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from Kit wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

My godfather's a State Trooper, and he taught me if it ever came to to it - shoot the attacker while yelling stop, then fire the last round into a ceiling or wall you know has no-one on the other side of it.
Anyone who heard gunshots and screaming also heard you fire that 'warning shot', and there's the proof.

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from sushirama wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

1. Dead men tell no tales and there's less paperwork involved.

2. There is no greater attention getter than the sound of an 870 Wingmaster Slide.

3. Lose speed, lose deed.

4. If you aint cheating you're aint trying hard enough.

The other 3 Rules that apply in all situations are :

1 - never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected.

2 - take it outside.

3 - be nice...until it's time to not be nice.

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from lamarlowe wrote 5 years 7 weeks ago

With regard to rule #8, I think that if someone is aiming a firearm in my general direction, one of the last things I would want to do is yell "Fire!" :)

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from NYhunter wrote 5 years 6 weeks ago

good rules!!!! that is the best thing I'VE read for a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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from JCDunn wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

holy hell, best...list...ever
well done!!!! thumbs up!!!!
'nuff said

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from Peter Campbell wrote 4 years 40 weeks ago

Words to live (and possibly die) by.

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from wookles wrote 4 years 32 weeks ago

In response to number one about bringing four times the ammunition. I carry 4 extra magazines for my .45 in my laptop bag, it sure makes it heavy but I know I'll almost have enough.

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from coho310 wrote 4 years 22 weeks ago

I remember it;
*Bring a gun,prefeably two guns

*Drink a flask,preferably scotch

*Avoid showing up

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from kodnocker wrote 4 years 22 weeks ago

I like the last thing in the article.

Never Be Unarmed.

Makes me think of the Clint Eastwood movie Unforgiven.
This guy tells Eastwood that he just shot an unarmed man!

Eastwood replies: "he should have armed himself!"

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Amflyer

Your point is well taken. Having served in both professions, you are correct in pointing out that there are times when holding someone at gunpoint is appropriate. As a citizen who will defend himself, family, and property against all enemies, foreign and domestic, my rules of engagement for an armed adversary do not include apprehension, just "shoot, shoot, look, shoot".

All,

Will those of you that have actually been in a firefight and DID NOT follow the rules above, please stand up.

Oh, how silly of me. You are on the wrong side of the grass or in a wheelchair.

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from Del in KS wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

NOS but has anyone noticed the Messiah is having problems with his appointments being crooks? Daschle is done. The Clintonista he picked for CIA is in trouble among others.
There was a problem earlier. You can click my name and see that big gator in Mims Fla with a pig in his mouth now. My brother lived there for 35 years.

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from Steven9253 wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Harold the article starting off with Drill Sergeant Frick is a dead give away that this is going to aim more towards milltary. Mr. Petzal do you know where he is a drill sergeant at? I went to Fort Knox and was just curious.

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from By_Karizma wrote 3 years 21 weeks ago

Thanks Super

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from By_Karizma wrote 3 years 21 weeks ago

Thanks Super
Good seslichatiz
you

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from Tristatedrugs wrote 2 years 49 weeks ago

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from ScottyBee wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

" 28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney." "

I love this one! It's so funny yet so true. Reminds me of one of the www.buckcommander.com guys. Can't remember his name but I can picture him saying something like this after a "bru haha."

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from Big-D wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

In regards to rule 27.You WILL get over it. The easiest way is to remember that your enemy is less than human, KILL THE BASTARD AND DRIVE THE F%$# ON!

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from By_Karizma wrote 3 years 21 weeks ago

Others are good SesliSohbet thinking Thanks admin...

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from Walt Smith wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Don't forget that if they fall away from your door to drag them inside before the cops come. Lot less questions that way.

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from Jerky wrote 5 years 8 weeks ago

Only in America, eh? Maybe one day you guys will wake up and realise that there might be a link between your attitude to guns and the killing that happens on the streets and in the schools in your country? How about you all grow up a bit and start acting less like 12-year old cowboys?

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from Harold wrote 5 years 10 weeks ago

Frick makes it sound like a gunfight is something you know you're going to get into beforehand, like an invitation-only event. How am I supposed to know when I'm going to be in a gunfight? If I knew I was going to one, I wouldn't go-bullets fly both directions, you know. So what am I supposed to do, carry all that armament around with me when I go to wally-world and the post office? The whole premise for this is dumb!

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from GunsKill wrote 5 years 9 weeks ago

Or maybe, 29. Live in a country where nobody carries a gun! Surest way to stay alive.

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