Ive used the .270 with great success on pronghorn and deer and find its flat trajectory and velocity to be just about perfect for open country...

That being said, I still prefer my trusty '06 for its versatility and availability of ammunition...

Wow! I actually learned something today!

I was raised in a country type environment. Now, we all shot, but there wasn't a bunch of talk about ammo. We had .22, .30/30, .30-06, and 12-gauge. For pistols there was .22, .38, and .45. That was it. Until I joined the service I didn't think there were any other rounds. Except for TV, I had never seen any plastic-y thing like they handed me, either.

I brought that up because reading this, I hear people say; "50-year-old .270". I had no idea it had been around. I remember in the '80s or '90s when somebody was coming out with a new ammo every week for pistol or rifle with the same BS... "Same energy as a .30-06.", "Same energy as a .45.". I just tuned it all out. Didn't care. I liked a .308, but all that other stuff was just for the uneducated and inexperienced.

Hunting or target shooting, I would just grab my Remington and go. It has been my more mature, thoughtful years before I could concede that there could be a use for any other type of ammo.

Granted, I still believe that some of the "cutesy" calibers are limited use. I still laugh silently when I hear people talk about what they use at 100 yards, 150 yards, etc... I've never thought about having multiple calibers for different ranges or game. It also removes the possibility of having to make some dumb comment like; "Sorry, Fred, but that deer is 150 yards away, and I only brought my 80-yard rifle.".

Thank you for your indulgence. I believe in the saying:

"There is no overkill. Just 'Open fire', and 'I need to reload'."

In one of the recent blogs or answers I stated my views on every version commonly encountered based on the original committee designed 1906 case save for the .400 Whelen. I presented my view clearly then, have not changed my mind, and refuse to discuss it any more. Arguing .243, 7-'08, .308, .338 Fed, and .358 makes for a more meaningful discussion since at least there is considerable difference from one to another (now that probably ruffled somebody's feathers). We should toss in the 6 mm Rem, the 6 x 284, 6.5 x 284, 22 CHeetah, .270 Redding, the Weatherby .240 just for spice. Seriously guys it beginning to look like we are running out of things to talk about. Let's try wildcats, yeah I know I mentioned some above. Maybe discuss gunmakers both large and small (concerning production not belly girth), gunleather makers, barrel makers, or custom rifle actions for a change.

Shot both quite a bit. Both will do the job. Since there is a severe shortage of Moose or big Bears in kS or MO I have switched to a 25-06 Kimber and it seems to be just as deadly with Barnes 100 gr TSX's at 3250 fps. After shooting 6 deer with it I still have not recovered a bullet due to full penetration.

To Jim in MO: I didn't say that the 200-grain is best, just that it deserved to be more popular, or at least factory-loaded, because it gives the old '06 a whole 'nother dimension. The rifle that gave me 2700 fps was a freak; it would swallow abnormally large charges of powder. I don't think you could get that kind of velocity out of a normal gun; 2600 would be much more like it. The powders I would try are H4831 and R22; you may also get better results with a CCI 250 primer than with a standard large rifle primer.

My Pop was a quiet, deadly shot, and a faithful reader of Jack O'Conner. He wildcatted the first 7mmMag I ever heard about, with P.O. Ackley making the specified changes. He brought home lots of Mule Deer, and yet...his toy--was a 721 Remington .270. He loved that gun, and shot running jackrabbits with it. Dad was quite familiar with the '06, and shot it in the military, but felt that the caliber was wrong for him. He was always respectful of the die-hard '06 man, and just took up the old Mauser 7mm Magnum that he had created, when it came to killing.

The funny thing was...Dad restored his grandfather's Kentucky Rifle...and we had more fun shooting it than any of the other rifles in our battery. I saw him drop a running jackrabbit at 162 paces with the old .44. He aimed way out ahead of it, and high. He was an incredible shot, my old man.

I guess the point of all this is, from my perspective, who says the Big Argument is between the .270 and the '06? It is like believing that the only food in the world is Soup...or, Sandwiches. They are both good, but not the end of the discussion about food.

Frankly, I like the 6.5mm Mannlicher Schoenauer. So did Karamojo Bell.

Blue

.270 from deer to elk and all very few animals in between

My pick is the .06 'cause that's what I have. When you're a hammer, everything's a nail, right???

I like the 270. It's hard to beat when pursuing a species like antelope, deer or elk. Additionally, if one has limited recoil tolerance, it can be pushed to greater scope. Long time 270 users, planning their first South African plains game trip are often tempted to buy a new magnum. I discourage this, use the 270 you're used to using, and you'll do just fine.

However, African hunting is different than in the U.S. More likely than not, you'll have the opportunity for a variety of species on the same day, from Steenbok to Eland. In my experience, this is were the versatile 06 proves to be more useful than the 270. The slower 06 doesn't seem to blow up small antelope as badly as the 270, yet will drive through the massive shoulder bone of an Eland with more authority.

Most African shooting is only occasionally at long range. When you're paying a $1000 per day your Professional Hunter wants you to spend the day hunting, not tracking wounded animals. He won't know what a great shot you are, and will discourage ultra long shots until he has seen example of your shooting prowess.

Dave,

Looks like Cpt Kangaroo is using Cpt Brad's username. Just kidding. Still have my 30's and 350 Remington. They just aren't necessary to kill most game.

ultimately I would say it comes down to which rifle you are more comfortable with. Which one gives you more shooter confidence etc. I have shot both the 30.06 and the .270, I can honestly say I have found very little difference in performance over all. If you put the bullet where it needs to go it both will more than get the job done. A very interesting thread I must say!

Petzal, let's see a link to that article about the trip to Africa with that .30/06. Is there one?

If there was, we would read of an '06 doing everything you would like to do over there with a .270, plus more things you probably shouldn't do over there with a .270.

Mr. Petzal, Great Job! Excellent discussion. This is why I read the blog. Thank you!

I shot my last deer with a .270. I was shooting some kind of cartridge with some kind of bullet in it. I know this because the rifle went "bang!" and the deer dropped. I don't know how fast the bullet was going, but it was obviously fast enough to get there before the deer went anywhere. I suspect that it would have been just as dead had I shot it with a 30-06. I have also killed deer with the 30-30 and the 7x57 Mauser. They were also shooting cartridges that contained bullets that were fast enough to get there. I realize my experience may not be technical enough for some of you guys, but we all have character flaws and one of mine seems to be a pragmatic attitude.

Forget the 270 vs 30/06 debate. Gimme a .270 AND a .338 Mag. Then your covered for anything from Coues deer to Bigfoot. If I can only have one rifle then whats better than the 06 ?

I love this discussion. I can't believe it is another 7 months until I can field test my 06 once again. This is torture. One nice thing about the 06 is that I can buy a box of shells anywhere that sells ammo. I once walked into a small gun shop that had an entire wall of nice rifles. I was excited because I was in the market for one and I pretty much knew what I wanted. As I began to go down the row and feel them I started on one end. "Oh, a 270. Oh, another 270. Wait, these are all 270s. What the (*&(*&>?!" Every single rifle in this shop was a 270. I asked the man behind the counter if he could order the one I wanted in a different caliber. He replied, "You don't need a different caliber. A 270 can do anything you want it to." It was at this point that I thanked the man and walked out the door. Six months later the store no longer existed. There are a few errors this man made. One was TELLING me what I want. The other was, even if it was true, thinking that giving shooting enthusiasts a single option and forcing it down their throats was going to be anything but a disaster. We like tools. Even if I never buy anything but an 06 for the rest of my life I would not buy an 06 from a man who sold only 06s. That is a sure sign of instability and there is no way to know there is nothing better out there unless you are willing to shoot them and test your beliefs.

Amen.

Now if we start discussing "out west" stories; I have one to share as well. My brother-in-law, a retired FBI guy, has been working the corp security sceen the past few years out in Montana. A very well to do company owns a ranch out in the middle of no where for executive get-aways. The cow pokes that rangle the horses all carry their bear/deer guns in he scabbard; the 30-30 winchester. Now I now we are not talking about a primary long range hunting choice here, but basically these locals were raised on guns, hunting, and living off the land.They swear by the little lever gun(primarily the 94win)with open sights, and most have not even heard of the lever-evolution ammo. Now, ask them what ammo one can find most ANYWHERE? The 30-30 of course! But would we base a choice on ammo/rifle to hunt with because we can find the ammo for it anywhere? One guys tells my brother in law,"This gun(30-30)is all you need to get the job done." I wonder what he would say about this .06/.270 debate?

By the way, Hornady 130's out of a 30-06 is my favorite Mule Deer and critter bullet!

I’m still learning about the ’06 late in my career since I bought this Springfield 1903. I have seen many 270’s shot and have shot and worked up loads for a 270. My observations:

-270 is a great big game hunting cartridge, but I can’t say it’s capable of fine accuracy for targets and varmint.

-30-06 appears, mind you…appears to be capable of fine accuracy and it can really mow down the big game with any bullet weight from 150-grains or more. That 165-grain bullet appears to be the best all-around big game weight.

DEP-
Is the 200 gr. .30-'06 as good a stopper as the 220 gr. in your opinion, and would I be gaining anything trying to work up a load for the 200 gr. over the 165 gr? I am shooting a few 220 gr. loads to see how they perform in anticipation of a New Mexico elk hunt next November, the Good Lord willing and the revolution don't start before then.

I see this "my (what ever) is just as good as a 30-06" over and over in the magazines and all over the internet year after year.

Hardly ever see any one argueing their "what ever" is just as good as a 270.

May be they are, maybe they ain't. I know an '06 is just as good as an '06.

All . . .

When I was a kid on my family's rural farm in CA, there was a .270 and a .30-06 (among other weapons) in a corner of the mud & coat room where everyone except guests first entered the house. The 30-06 was a 1903 gorgeously blued, touched-up action in a magnificent rosewood or cherry stock or something similar, one of the most beautiful hand-checkered stocks, and one of the most beautiful rifles in general, I ever saw. The rifle had a very fine (and tiny) peep sight on it, but there was a side mount for a scope as well--I'm remembering things from 35 years ago here--and sometimes there was a 4x Weaver on the rifle and sometimes there wasn't. It was a fairly accurate rifle; you could always get 1 1/2" to 2" groups with it, and this is back in the 1970's.

I fired that '06 rifle probably 250 times when I was a kid. I loved it for its beauty and its history, but it kicked the crap out of me and it was difficult for me to overcome a bad flinch I developed because of it.

I also fired the .270 a whole bunch when I was a kid, too. It kicked less, but appeared to be just as deadly as the 30-06 was downrange at anything I or anyone else ever aimed it at. My stepfather handloaded healthy loads for both rifles, among others. When we went on elk hunts up in Idaho and Oregon, using a train of mules and horses to get way back deep in the wild country, my stepfather would always, without exception, pack those two rifles, the '03 30-06 and his .270. Sometimes, for reasons I never bothered to ask and never received an explanation for, my stepfather would also take a particularly beautiful .300 H&H he was very fond of--although he very rarely ever shot it, or a .308 Norma Magnum, although he was just as likely to stick an old Remington 721 or 722 (I can't remember which model it was) in .257 Roberts in a scabbard and take that rifle, too. Sometimes we took four or five rifles. We were never short on rifles in the wilds.

That 30-06, as my stepfather was fading away a couple of years ago and no longer knew who I was, was swiped by "family" members who hadn't been around in 20 years. It's gone. As is the hideously beaten-up, weathered and scarred .270. As are all the other rifles, including that beautiful .300 H&H. But I have my own .270 which I handload for (130-grainers at 3120-3150 fps from a 22" barrel), and although it is outhouse-ugly and has accumulated its own scars and scratches over the years, it still shoots MOA any day of the week.

It is one of two rifles I always take out in the wilds today.

TWD

To Del in KS...

Nice rifle. And I thought Cerakote was where drunk people sang to music in bars.

Much ado about nothing. Anything the .270 can do, the 30.06 can do. If there is a difference, its the wider range of bullet weights of the .06.

I believe all on this Blog know how I feel about the 06 usig the Rem Scricco's in l80gr for Elk/Mulies out west.When i go I take the 25-06 as well, but till I get the Elk I use the o6. When Marlin came out with the XL7 I bought the first one I could find in 270. It came in late for my Western hunt so not tried it on live animals yet. Have it scoped with a Nikon 3 x 9 x 40 with Leupold set up and hopefully will work as well as the 06. When hunting season begins in the fall, will see. I only bought the 270 in Syn stock as a 4 wheeler/truck gun and as a backup to Montana, C0. weather. I do hate for my 700's to get soaked. Again, if you have read my past articles about the 06, 25-06 in 700's there is little left to say. Get either the 06,270, etc. to a weight of 9-10 lbs and go hunting. But, buy and use the best ammo $ will buy. My 700's like the Remington Ammmo better, especially the Scricco's, now hopefuly teh 270 will be as accurate. Again, I'd rather be overgunned than under. In my l2 Western hunts, all the game I;ve killed other than one Elk, all bullets went completely thru. AS for a flat shooting gun,, try the 700 25-06 using ll7 gr. Winchester Ballistic tips and your Lope will tumble if you place the shot correct. It also does well on W-tails here at home. I plan on this Marlin 270 replacing the 25-06 as it's custom shop made and I love the way it shoots. We can beat our heads against the wall and we will get the same opinions on the 06 and the 270. Just do as I;ve done, buy one of each and give them a try. Shot-um-straight and often.

I'm a big fan of the .270 Winchester simply because the results, to me, are as good or better than a .06, with less recoil. I have an Ultra Light Arms M24 in .270 and it shoots groups at 100 yds. that can be covered with a nickel. I like the Winchester Supreme Elite 130 gr. XP3. It flies like a ballistic tip and hits like a fail safe.

007,
I'm surprised by your recoil assesment of the 760. I have a 760 and a Savage both in '06 and I've always thought the 760 had a milder felt recoil.

Like many of you have discussed here, both the .270 and 30.06 both have admirable qualities for big game hunting to which it really comes down to personal preference. I have more hunting/shooting experience with the .270 and believe it is all the gun needed for 95% of the average hunter to get the job done. While the .06 can handle things a bit better with heavier loads, it comes with the recoil factor going up significantly. At this point, recoil isn't a factor for me so I stepped up from the .270 to the .35 Whelen. The "heavy" 250 grain bullet in this caliber will give you a stout lesson on recoil factor in short order. I still have the .270, but when I plan my moose, or bear, hunt I will take the Whelen that's a better fit to take these animals in my opinion. By the way, I recently purchased a Remington semi-auto in 30.06 just in case I wanted to follow the .06 crowd in the future.

Ralph

My buddy just got some Barnes TSX 225 grainers from a trip to Cabela's. We are going to handload some soon and see how they shoot. I have a supply of Federal 225 TBBC in tha safe from the time a couple of years ago when Federal dropped them from production. I think I have 4 boxes left. At 3 rounds to check zero and one or two shots at elk, they might just last my hunting years! I practice with 200 gr Hornady's. He doesn't have but a partial box of TBBC left and doesn't want to pay $40+.

My one and only load for the Naught Six these days is a 165 gr TSX. Very accurate in my rifle.

Ralph the Rifleman

Thanks. I have also thought about Accubonds for the .35W. I handloaded a box of those for my '06, but they were not all that accurate, at least they didn't suit me. I only tried 2 powders so maybe they would be ok. I shot a box of Federal Accubond loads and they were about the same. That Weatherby is finicky, but it shoots the 165 gr TSX way better than I can group them. Stick with what works until you find something better!

I gotta agree with j-johnson-I hunted with, and reloaded for, the 7mm rem mag for over 8 years; hunting ground hogs to Moose. I think it's a very cabable cartridge.
OK Dave P. How about a "7mm Mag VS 30 Mag" debate on the discussion blog next?

Ah, Clay C.
Where would we be without your saged wisdom?;o)

By the way, when I worn out the action of my Ruger M77 I was seriously considering a 7mm Rem Mag, no joke! But I had all that brass and stuff so replaced it with a Remington 700CDL 25-06

And my Grandson Alex has claimed it as his own!

When I worked in a gun shop, most guys planning a Canada moose, or bear, hunt suffered from "get a magnum" virus. One gent asked me what I thought about him taking his pet '06 for moose. I told him if he is confident with the rifle, choose a factory load in the 180 grain wt, and shoot a moose with it! His huntin buddies thought he was crazy;He showed me pictures of it 6 weeks later after the trip. He was so grateful for my advise, and I liked the moose burgers, too!

Ralph the Rifleman,

One word: "AMEN"

To BO: Thats one of the advantages to the 06.As a rule,can buy Ammo most anywhere they sell sporting goods. I was in the Bitteroots 2yrs ago and was headed to Motel about 25 miles away from the City and saw a Log built Night-Club-Bar-Resturant out in middle of no-where. So had to stop and take a look. Was a beautiful older Log building, had a band stand and a corner marked off for dancing, a fireplace big enough to burn a 8 ft log in. A long Bar and many tables. Sold steaks, Beef Stew, best Hamburger in the West, Beer,Coffee, tea. I was at the Bar, and noticed a few guns on the rack, guess what calibers they were????? 30-06's and he had about a dozen boxes of 06 ammo and a few 22's.I asked the Bartender about the supply.His reply was that was all he ever was asked for in that area, which had Elk, Moose, both deer and Bears. That told me all I need to know. Made a few pictures and if I return to MT will surely re-visit that beautiful place. PS; I inquired and found out the Business had been there over 40 yrs.Forgot the name, but will find the pictures and list them here. So, maybe I;n not such and old foggie about my 06 after all.?????? Shoot-um-straight and very often. PS; Also had enough Mounts to fill Wal-mart hanging from every spot overhead, plus lots of older sporting goods mdse. If I had that property here in N.C. Could make a killing, as People would go wild with that arrangement. Kinda reminded me of the Saloon on Gunsmoke??

I have shot both, and have come to find out I can get the same ballistics out of a 308 and a 30 06 and in a lighter rifle, but back to the debate I would take a 270 with a 150 any day. Far rider you need to check out Noslers 160 Partion for the 270.

idduckhunter,

Thanks, I will check out the bullets you mentioned. The reason I asked about the 180 gr .277 bullets is because I was surprised to find reloading data for such a load. I wasn't aware that .277 bullets were made heavier than 160 gr. Then when I started looking for these 180 gr bullets, I couldn't find them, so I'm curious if anyone knows where to find them. If they're not being made anymore and becoming rare, I'd like to buy some just in case I ever hunt something large enough I think I need a 180 gr bullet.

buckstopper, IMO none of my rifles likes a clean barrel.
I do not hunt with a clean barrel, I like to bore foul first.

Didn't you guys have this same argument last year?

Pointless to turn a rifle in to a hands gun?

No you will catch heck when the TC guys who think they are handgun hunters read this.

I have taken over 300 Alabama whitetails, mostly freezer does, with a .270. My heaviest buck was 212 lbs., longest shot was 333 yards. I have harvested only one with a borrowed 30-06. That old Model 70 hammered my scrawny shoulder so bad I decided I didn't need the extra "killing power" of the 30 caliber. In the .270,I use factory loaded 130 grain boattails. Low recoil, flat trajectory, plenty of gun for an Alabama whitetail.

To CRM30/06: A 200-grain .30 Swift A-Frame will match any 220-grain bullet that ever lived. If you're asking should you work up loads for the 200 over the 165, no; you'll get a lot more use out of the 165.

To Shane: I've used both in Africa, and there's no question I prefer the '06.

To ishawooa: I told you it was a terrific gun. Pretend you own a bank and collect an enormous wad of cash from the government.

to kaanimal: It's an effective cartridge--look at all the game it's taken--but there's nothing it won't do that a .270 or.280 won't. The 7mm Weatherby, however, is a different story.

Forgot to mention, all rifles had scopes.

I think either would do great, but I personaly like the .308Win for dear hunting here in Ky. where I live.(75-100yds). If I had to pick, between the .270 and 30-06, I'd pick the 06.