Good post. This is the stuff we want. Gun porn.

I never considered the Casull's recoil bad - though, personally, more manageable in the Freedom Arms 83 than the Ruger Super Redhawk. It's the muzzle blast that's disturbing.

I saw a matched pair of 4 bore doubles a few years back - always wondered what they would be like to shoot ... praying both barrels don't go off. What is that ... about 1,800 gr a round? Imagine a situation where one needed both barrels from both guns. Might not be a situation one would get out of unscathed - by the quarry or the guns.

By the way, this is a bit disturbing (a bit graphic, like the old driver ed films) ...

http://dougdavisent.com/safety/revolver.html

I saw a slow motion of a Casull being fired and the gap flash from the cylinder/forcing cone gap is extreme. I imagine the same for the .460. Sandbags were burned and had holes in them. Gotta keep everything and everyone not expendable behind the gap of any revolver.

An interesting timing for this post for me. I just, today, parted company with my .460 WBY Custom to a gentleman who needed more than I. I bought it years ago when it was hanging on a prop service shop in ANC that I use for prop maintenance. The owner took it as money for service performed for a customer with not much other money. It is my experience that most 378 / 460 WBYs, for sale, have less than one box of ammo ever fired. Few original owners ever find that it is a gun they wish to hold forever! I believe that they buy on fantasy, fire a few rounds and sell. Mine was cherry and remained that way. I bought it 'very right' and sold it - at current fair value, according to the WBY Collectors Assn. guidelines.
I have owned a 454 Casull for many years. I spent quite a bit of time with Wayne (one of the principal owners) at trade shows where I was also exhibiting. Finally he sold me one. I carried it many years in a shoulder rig when I was servicing my bear camps by aircraft on the AK PEN. I found it to be manageable to shoot with a lot of big gun experience. Full power loads were way beyond the 44 Mag I had. But manageable to where I felt confident that, if needed, I could use it for the purpose intended, a bear problem.
Shooting big guns is not something I do for fun or to experiment anymore. But,'good on ya' for those of you who do so!
Cannot believe that our 'leader, 'DP' can continue to write so lucidly and learnedly after all the head rattling he must have experienced.

When I shot the .454, I probably got off cheap; my friend had a nice, soft, spongy set of Pachmayr grips on his. So though it came back pretty hard, at least the gun wasn't going anywhere; I didn't experience what Mack did.

Golfing Sportsman; those 3 1/2" 12 ga goose and turkey loads kick like a son of a gun. To me they kick harder than any .300 magnum, even more than a .338. But then a .338 only kicks about 1/4th as hard as a .577 Tyrannosaur, so that gives you some idea where you are.

It is my understanding that the giant dinosaurs went extinct some time ago, so in a world where .375s, .416s, and .458s can cashier an elephant, and elephants are the biggest thing we can shoot, what do you do with a .577 Tyrannosaur? Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FCY3_5Bg1M.

Dave, if you know anybody who's actually shot anything with a .577, we'd all like to hear about it. When you shoot a lion with it, does it blow up like a prairie dog shot with a .22/250? That kind of thing.

I forgot to add 2000 feet per second is plenty.....If you shoot fairly straight.

Other than lots of .454 rounds I have never fired any of the aforementioned cartridges. The Linebaugh series of revolver cartridges rivals or exceeds the Casull especially when they are built in the usual converted Ruger Bisley. I still look at my friend's .50 BMG single shot and wonder what the recoil is like WITHOUT the huge muzzle brake. The up side is that the rifle approaches 30 pounds in weight so kick probably would not be as bad as some of these big boys.

cliff68; I always pattern my shotgun on a 30"square of butcher paper, I've never tried patterning on my wife, she might refuse to cook for me for awhile, and might not stand still for the second shot anyway.
I've fired some hard kickers, the hardest was a 10ga., single trigger double, 3.5"that belonged to my cousin.
This was a Dakin, or something like that. Heavy engraving, beautiful wood, 32" full choke barrels, the ultimate goose gun,(he said,Don't kick as bad as you might think). Well, he didn't tell me the whole story, but offered to take me out to the range for a demonstration. Early Sunday morning we were alone on the trap range,(he had a key), said load, mount, and holler pull when you're ready. All that, I did and he stood behind me with the switch in his hand. The bird came out, and I fired, the second barrel fired as soon as the recoil cocked it, I turned 1/2 way around, and he caught the gun on the fly, or it would have hit the ground. He laughed so hard he had to sit down, but I have not yet seen the humor in all that. I literally ached for a week. All that was 50yrs. ago, and to this day, I have NO use for a double gun with a single trigger.
As for this post, it is good to read about these monsters, but I have no desire to fire one, as I'm not nearly as resilient as I was when I was 19, (nor as gullible).

Dave, I understand overcoming the fear and pain that comes from shooting these monsters is part of the challenge. How much shock value comes from reading the price tags on these little goodies?

Those are impressive - I'd like to have one of each. I'd only let certain people shoot them though - the people I don't like.

Well I've shot a .375 H&H a lot out of the Ruger #1. It rolls and is fun to shoot. It's 40 but a Weatherby .270 comes in at 22 ft./lbs. and I have shot one of those that hurt every time you pulled the trigger. Rifle design is an important part of this equation. Dave with your notoriety for loving pain I figured you would have a .577 T.Rex lying around just for kicks...

Happy Myles-
Would really like to read about some of your experiences in Tanzania, with emphasis on guns and loads and game taken. Still waiting on that bunch of hunting stories that you should write! Good luck with finding a big buff.
crm

Do I remember those 454 Casull shooters hitting the ground at the 25 yard line for a 50 yard shot. I would tell them according to Alaska and federal law they must remove the front sight. Remove the front sight why they reply. Your using that cannon for bear protection right? When you shot the Brown Bear he is going to snatch that gun out right of your hand and shove it up your ____ and those front sights are hell on the Hemorrhoids! You should see the panic in there eyes!!

I actually would like to shoot either the .460, .577, or .475 just once, so that I could appreciate the medium size game cartridges that I own, and to tell friends I had shot such a cartridge.

Cool stuff Dave, fun to read.

I fired a cylinder full of .454s out of a 4 3/4" (I think) Freedom Arms model 83 at the range one day (not my gun). The first shot, the gun came back so smartly it surprised me. I steadied down and emptied the cylinder, all rounds on target but nothing to brag about. When I handed the gun back my friend told me to look at my Stetson; the recoiling barrel, probably the first shot, put a deep dent in it. This with a two handed grip. That was easily the loudest gun I ever fired, and the blast through the cylinder gap would almost blow your hat off if you were standing near the shooter. Though I hate to contradict people who are smarter than me, I believe a .454 Casull at close range would lower the boom on an angry bear quite nicely. But until I go to Alaska I'll stick to my .40 S&W, thank you.

So where do the 12 gauge, 1 oz, 1600 fps slugs that we all shoot around here fit in, or the 3 1/2 inch steel goose loads, or the 3 inch turkey loads. I have no experience with any of the calibers listed above but plenty with these shotgun loads, where do they stack up?

3.5 inch turkey magnums are about on a level with the .458 Winchester, a popular African heavy dangerous game cartridge. In a light enough shotgun, they might be as bad as a .458 Lott, an even more powerful cartridge that some say is a necessary step up from the Winchester over there. None of the aforementioned kick as hard as the rifle cartridges listed in the blog. Turkey mags can be in the high 60's or even 70's, foot-pounds wise, and a Lott in a 10 pound rifle will be around 70. The Weatherby will be around 100 in an even heavier rifle, not to mention a rifle of the same weight. Ouch.

The 30-06 is about my limit. Feel it will handle anything in NA i plan to hunt other than the Griz or Brownie: Those I do not plan to hunt, but if the need arose, can bet will empty my 06 and my 44-40 side arm and hope/pray it stops them. Shoot-um-straight and often

My 458 is all I can handle and still shoot properly. I can't shoot a 460 well.

The meanest recoiling rifles I've fired were a 577 and a 10-ga double rifle. Both were black powder rifles that were also fog machines.

I can only imagine the excitement making a shot with these rifles on an elephant or lion, waiting to see if anything comes through that smoke cloud looking for you.

Those enormous cartridges are all beyond my recoil tolerance level. I can shoot my .375 H & H, .338 Win. Magnum, or .300 Weatherby Magnum a modest number of rounds without undue discomfort. But that is about my limit. A few years ago a rich guy at the range let me fire two shots offhand with his .416 Rigby in a Merkel double rifle that cost twice as much as my pickup. I did OK, being it was offhand, but wouldn't have wanted to fire that thing over a bench.

Worst experience with recoil: 1 - Little bitty 5-shot .357 with the factory grips. 2 - TC Contender with the 45-70 barrel. 3 - New S&W 460.
The .357 just hurt, nothing to hold on to. The Contender and the 460 were bad because of the muzzle blast. I don't remember whether the Contender kicked or not, just that I didn't want any more of it. The 460 actually kicked significantly less that I expected, but the muzzle blast was mean. I often wondered about those double barrel derringers in .410. (See .357 above)

I had a Taurus Raging Bull for a while. The first time I shot it, I laid a sheet of typing paper over the barrel and ports, thinking it would be cool to see the 8 little holes it would punch. I shot it once. It was snowing paper. The largest piece was about the size of my thumb nail.
It was loud, but one of the loudest ones I have shot is the North American Black Widow, .22 magnum. It is unbelievable for its size, even with ear plugs.

Dave back when is was about 18 my dads friend had a 460 wby and he let me shoot it ...WOW!!! it hit hard. then I bought a H&R 10 ga it wasn't that bad .Now that Iam almost 50 I have learned that when I go shooting I wear a past shoulder pad I shoot a mossberg 835 with 31/2 turkey loads and it's not bad . But I always wear the shoulder pad I feel I have learned through my years.

Thanks for the .30/o6 reference... it really helps compare. Saying that... OUCH! Those things hurt me just reading them. Thank the good Lord I have never needed, wanted, of had the chance to shoot any of them. I bet if you typed these loads into youtube, you might find some funny reactions. God Bless the people who actually use such calibers... everytime they shoot one, it must feel like they are getting their a$$ kicked.

I have shot a lot of stopping rifles, not because I enjoy doing so, but because I am a gun nut and have had opportunities to frequently hunt seriously dangerous game, and to help others who were in the process of finishing off seriously pissed off dangerous game These calibers are for split second danger filled situations. time for one shot their vicious recoil making a quick second shot almost impossible.

I have mentioned before I like a 500 grain bullet for elephant using 450Ackley, 470 Nitro, 500 Nitro (570 grain), and 500 Jeffrey (530 grain). These have stopped every animal I have fired at. On buffalo and on smaller game have successfully my 416 Rigby. Lion 06 up to 375.

When a stopping rifle, or backup for a wounded animal is needed, I switch to either of my side by sides, 470 Nitro or my 500 Nitro. Anything larger is too heavy and the ferocious recoil too much for this little buckaroo.

The 460 Weatherby has way to much velocity for real close work, but I know many experienced PH's who swear by it.

crm3oo6,
Have used all three. The 470 recoils harder, and being a side by side limited to inside 100 yards and normally even shorter range...a specialty rifle. I have used the 416 Rem, it is very similar to the 416 Rigby,and that is a compliment. If you can handle the recoil, you can take everything from small antelope to Cape Buffalo, I have done so. Personally I prefer the Rigby, but the Rem is just fine.

The 458 Win Mag has been one of the most maligned cartridges in past years. Now that it is loaded with modern powders and honestly advertised velocities and high quality bullets. It is what it always was, a reliable, accurate dangerous game rifle. The recoil mush less than my 450 Ackley, or 458 Lott , just not as fast. You will find it just about the most popular PH rifle in Africa. Kindest Rgards

Shane,
I have killed five lion, all with 300 through 338 never had a problem. Shot another with 416 Rigby, because that was what I had in hand. All with soft points. The 06 would have done just as well. Please, these were normal hunting situations, not stopping wounded animal charges...That is when the wheels fall off! AS you have said, cats don't need solids.

Del in KS I'll be in Tanzania for 21 days, focusing on White Bearded Gnu (Wildebeast) North West of Arusha, then over to the Eastern Swamps looking for an East African Sitatunga. Anything else real special gets in my way, I'll take a hard look at. Like a big buffalo. Should be a layed back trip. Going alone, unless my grandson gets a hall pass.

For a light rifle, either my new 30 06 by Empire or 300Win Mag by Bansner. On the heavy side, will take my battered 416 Rigby by Griffen & Howe. It would sulk, and I would have a guilty conscience if I left it home. Kindest Rggards

CZ rifles in .416 Rigby can be had far under $1000, which is good, but ammo is pricey, of course, but if I purchased one I would reload for it. This is not a very cheap alternative either, but I could taylor the loads for my needs.
ps-I don't have the need for such a caliber, but what the heck!

I once had the sorry pleasure of sighting in a .378 and a .460 Weatherby in the same day for a customer of an outdoor store I was working for. The .378 wasn't too bad, diligent bore sighting made quick work. I wouldn't want to spend too much time with a .378 off the bench though.

As for the .460, I used a bag of bird shot between my shoulder and the rifle. The concussion alone gave me a headache. To make matters worse the .460 didn't like any of the limited choices of ammo available to feed it. It went back to the factory. My entire upper body was sore from the experience.

The new .460 came in the next week. I bore sighted it and had it zeroed in three, with one check round, go figure...

The customer took the rifles to Africa and never uncorked the .460 except to confirm zero on arrival. He shot the .378 once on game, a Buffalo. He brought both guns back and sold them on consignment. As per your coment Dave, he told me the old .375 H&H was his limit!

I did fire a .458 Win. Mag. once, felt no ill effects, but that's plenty.

Clay Cooper-
Don't know, but if YOU want to sacrifice your shoulder to find out, will be interested in the comparison. .375 H&H is my limit unless I get to go to Africa without having to work!

Ruger #3 whas chambered in 45-70

What happened to 835 Ulti-mag with 3 1/2" Magnums?
It burns into your shoulder enough to make you remember that you don't want to take a second shot at the same target. I think that has issued a few foot pounds to many a hunter.

crm3006

How does .45-70 compare with a .375 H&H, recoil wise?

In the Ruger #3 loaded with a 350 grain bullet was around 2400ish fps wasn't really what I expected. It was a hard super fast push rather than the shoulder wrenching kick of a 375 H&H and in no way should anyone put a scope on it, it would be fatal! The distance of the pushing recoil is at least 9-12 inches if not more and yes it does clean your sinuses out too, NO JOKE! I could have easily fired 20 rounds and you have to keep your middle finger on the trigger guard instead behind it getting smacked, OUCH!

The same person also owned a 45-120 in a Ruger #1 in a 26 inch barrel pushing a 350 to have what appeared the same trajectory as a 180 grain out of a 30-06 at 400 yards! The recoil was similar to the 45-70 in Ruger #3

I have a 6 pound 338 Win Mag with a 19 inch barrel that will clean most anyone's clock. It has destroyed a set of Refield-type scope mounts when I fired it from a Lead-Sled.
I don't know what the recoil is in ft/lbs but it is a religious experience for anyone who participates or witnesses the firing process. It sometimes knocks my glasses off my face, and I weigh nearly 250lbs
AKX

Dave, this from a very experienced pistol hunter and target shooter. At one of the manufacturer-sponsored outings tied in with the SHOT show several years ago, I fired one round from the .454 Casull, put the gun down immediately after the shot, didn't ask any technical questions about the cartridge and walked away thinking...'My hand stings and that load is what rifles are for.'

When I was shooting on the Navy team, TAD to the Small Arms Training Unit in San Diego, one of the armorers built a 'big' rifle. At the time I think the largest shoulder cruncher in the world was the .600 Nitro Express. Could be wrong. This custom bolt-gun--I don't remember the action used but I think the original case began life as a .460 Weatherby...and I could be wrong about that, too.

The beast was taken to the 50-yard line and I was third in the little, but curious, group of pistol shooters to fire it. I was reminded of the event after reading your comments on the .700 H&H.

One of the reserve shooters fired the rifle first and while the barrel pointed immediately to God at the shot...the butt found a skinny space between armpit and ribs and exited there. The hapless, surprised pistolero managed somehow to keep hold of the rifle by its forearm, but his right hand/arm seemed to be waving to somebody downrange. I stepped out of the queue.

Wow, and I thought I was a tough-guy for not bruising after shooting a three shot group from a .458 Lott.

Let me guess, the guys who created the .475 A&M thought the .460Wby. was for wimps?

How about a really big one? Like a .575 "Texas" A&M (good football college, I heard).

So I assume the amount of kick a gun gives is measured in foot-pounds of recoil? If so, why does the .577 show the highest amount of foot-pounds of recoil?

yea they would probably break my shoulder

After a long night of drinking homebrew, a buddy of mine came over and made me go squirrel hunting. I grabbed a 12 guage, because my 22 was at my parents house, and a box of federal 31/2 flight controls and off we went. It was the worst day of my life. I recovered some usable squirrels. I also had a 338 RUM at the time. The only upside was that after the squirrel day there was no drama with the 338 RUM anymore, I never even thought about it being unpleasant. I don't reccomend this as a proper way of curing a flinch, but it will open your eyes to reality, which is even hot medium bores aren't that bad. That said I don't have the RUM any more, just a 338 win mag, though I'm thinking about a 338-375 ruger (338 campfire...)

Five unnecessary cartridges I'd never shoot. Thanks for the list, Dave, it's like reading an advanced notice on future Darwin Award nominee behavior.