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Petzal: All About Rifle Abuse*

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July 10, 2009

Petzal: All About Rifle Abuse*

By David E. Petzal

In my post on Cooper rifles, a number of you brought up the problem involved in taking an expensive rifle into the cold, hard world of hunting and getting the hell beaten out of it.

In the eyes of this grizzled, embittered old observer, there are two kinds of people who actually use fancy rifles. The first gives them all the consideration that you would a rake or a broom. It’s nothing more than a tool, they say, treat it as such. Don’t be a slave to the thing. The second kind, to which I belong, shows all rifles, and especially fancy ones, the same kind of obsessive care that former Senator John (“The Breck Girl”) Edwards shows his hair. Any rifle is going to show wear if you use it enough, but that’s not the same as beating on it.

Some people like to bash expensive gear because it shows they are above mere material concerns. Or it may be a way of letting the world know that they don’t care if they reduce a gun to rubble because they have 32 more just like it. That stuff drives me crazy. Any gunsmith who turns out a handsome firearm has invested a ton of time and skill and heart into making it that way, and to throw the gun around is a gesture of contempt toward the man who made it.

The two most-used rifles I’ve ever seen were the .300 Weatherby Mark V that C.J. McElroy carried to put 350-odd species of big game in the SCI record book. It was hardly recognizable as a rifle any more. The other was Warren Page’s Old Betsy, his famous 7mm Mashburn magnum, with which he slew everything on four legs and, like McElroy, won the Weatherby Award. Old Betsy had its bluing worn off in spots, and obvious wear to the stock, but it was still in good shape. Both rifles had lived equally hard lives, but Page loved Old Betsy, and it showed.

*I don’t know any songs about rifle abuse, but there is an old bluegrass song about child abuse called “Please Poppa, Don’t Whip Little Benny,” sung by the Stanley Brothers. But that’s not important now.

Comments (52)

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from 175rltw wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I have aome really plane rifles- fiberglass stock, unfinished barrel, or gunkoted or whatever, and the way those guns shoot is what makes them art, the care in the level of machining makes them somehwat aweinspiring, and I give them care commensurate with thier status as ART. The same goes for my Cooper 257 Bob, The level of craftsmanship there demands that you respect it for the ART that it is. Yeah I use it some, same with my old 722 257 roberts (which is ugly at best, but damn does it shoot) But I hold those rifles in vry high esteem, because they do something really well, weather it be shoot or just pluck at my heart strings (they all shoot, my views on feckless rifles mirror Dave's) My old ruber 44 carbine shoots OK, looks OK, but it gets the same level of love too, again because like most rifles and women, if I look at one long enough I'll find something to fall in love with.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I pamper my guns, and "mentally" beat myself up when I do scratch, or dent, them while in the field.
Dave are you really an "embittered" old observer? I mean can relate to what you're feelin`, it this be that be the truth?
BTW-Every mark on my guns have a story attached to them which seems to justify the damage somewhat. At least a little...

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from jjas wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Petzal quote:Some people like to bash expensive gear because it shows they are above mere material concerns. Or it may be a way of letting the world know that they don’t care if they reduce a gun to rubble....

Dave,

I don't "bash" expensive gear because I think I'm above material concerns, nor do I "reduce" any of my less expensive guns to rubble, because I have 32 others. I take care of all my firearms just as you would your expensive ones.

I just think spending thousands of dollars on a rifle/shotgun/pistol/revolver that offers little (if any) improvements in performance and/or accuracy from one that costs several hundred dollars is not a judicious use of my capital.

You obviously feel differently and I say more power to you.

Jim

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from yohan wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Have a Mauser 98 rifle which started life as miltary arm.
Wont state caliber cause the caliber dosent matter,
It was new ( packed in cosmoline ) when I came to own it some 40 years ago.
Over the years,.with condiderablle expenditure of my limited funds as a youth. It was tweeked and worked,.. to what is presently decribd by some of my old hunting cronies as "one damn handsome rifle,.. and a shooter to boot".
As Ralph the DR says,. its not a prom queen but its lines are clean,.. and traditional hand cut checkering on the Italian walnut stock is still about 90 -95 % and it still shoots like a dream.
I think to some extent becuase I decided not to have barrel steps machined out. But I digress
As you might immagine I have taken good care of it.
Yet the stock now shows the miles its been carried through various terain over the past 40 odd years .
So last year i was gonna get the stock cleaned up ,. but
a man Ive hunted with for a very long time said ,. yohan ,. you could do it ,. but that gun's got what I call character now ,. so you might wanna thing that one over once more ,. I did and so ,.. I didn't.

I also mighht mention men who are familiar with it have offered to buy it for a lot of years.
(good luck with that) A nephew has asked to inherit it and one friend has a standing offer for significantly more than its worth . But it aint for sale.
The blueing is still 90- 955 % because with one exsception ( a screwed up compass causing me to be lost over night ) I cleaned it, each and every time I used it.
Regardles if the nights venue was a tent, a shack or snug warm cabin with running water and showers 5 miles from some of the best hunting in the upper midwest.

All that said so there is some levity here
I could probbaly afford to be rougher on things / equipment than I am.

But as mister Petzal says there is heart in that
piece and not just mine.
So to treat it like a shovel is something I am simply not capeable of doing .
I might also add I intentionally do no spend (any) time around people who do or those who are carelessly hard on guns and other impotant gear .
AS I have found generally,. and specifically,. I do not like that personality profile.
To be blunt they p1$$ me off.
Because they commit what I consider intentional or at least carelss waste for resons very likley already stated by Mr Petzal
In world where there are people less than 10 miles from most of us who dont have enough to eat and decent place to sleep.

Intersting Mr Petzal being 180 degrees apart on the political compass we seem to have a similar take on
other things ,. So how the heck is it that a died in the wool concervative ( republican? ) who would likley vote for a Brown Swiss Bull or Sara "O "Palin ,. if it
or it ,.. were running on the republican ticket.
Has anything in common with a concervative liberal like me and the other millions who decided to make the switch this last time around

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from crm3006 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I would put people who.. "like to bash expensive gear because it shows they are above mere material concerns. Or it may be a way of letting the world know that they don’t care if they reduce a gun to rubble..",
in the same category as butt-wipes who abuse horses and kick their dogs. To be avoided if at all possible, and if not possible, to be made the victim of any possible misfortune it
is within my ability to arrange or instigate.
That being said, I hate to hunt with someone who weeps, wails and gnashes teeth about the least little nick or scratch to a piece of equipment. I try to keep my firearms in the best mechanical and cosmetic condition possible, some even have 50+ years of use by
myself and preceding generations, but a firearm is a tool, and with use will acquire wear marks. Unlike DEP, I do not own any truly costly or high end guns, but if I ever acquire one, I will probably baby it if I ever get to the point of hunting with it.

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from Jeff4066 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I've never had the budget some of the people you talk about have.

I try to pamper them as well as I can as long as circumstances permit. Military people have to depend on their weapons in a way no civilian does outside of law enforcement. There was simply no question about it. It WILL be cleaned and oiled.

Eventually, with anything, a scratch here and there can't be helped. But deliberate abuse to my tools just doesn't feel right.

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from Asherdan wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Tools, equipment, horses, rifles, I view 'em all the same. I have 'em because I picked 'em out to do a specific job and I maintain 'em because of the pleasure good working gear (and stock) gives me in using them. I expect equipment to be used, not abused, regardless of co$t.

I might find them pretty in their own way, too.

Regardless, someone with a mindset that allows them to junk up or abuse perfectly good equipment is someone I'd trust about as far as I could kick 'em.

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from Bob81 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I half agree with alot of the postings here. However, I love the fact that when I accidently drop my Rem 870 in the bottom of the duck boat, it slips out of my numb hands into waist-deep bog water, it acquires a few new scratches protecting my face from the bramble patch I am pushing through trying to catch up to my dog that has a grouse pinned down, I don't have to worry too much since it's already got "lot's of character". (Granted, it always gets stripped down to atomic level when I get home and gets a good oiling.)

Meanwhile, I have a Beretta Onyx o/u that I'm scared to take out on half my bird hunts since I tear up every time it gets the slightest nick or scratch.

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from shane wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I treat my guns as carefully as possible, so long as it doesn't become a hindrance to its purpose, shooting game. So sometimes, I'm not so careful. I choose the gun I take accordingly.

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from buckeye wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I always take good care of my equipment and try like heck to keep them scratch free. Sometimes that first scratch to a new weapon is a blessing in disguise, after I get it a tend to focus more on the hunting and less on trying to make my gun look pretty. I do not abuse any of my gear and it drives me nuts when other do not take the same amount of care with their equipment.

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from MaxPower wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

It's always good practice to treat rifles right. Do your best to take care of them, because mother nature will do her best to ruin them

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Two thumbs up for David!

Let’s add another category to rifle abuse!

I remember at a High Power Match in Albuquerque New Mexico when I caught a shooter as he was rearing back for the big swing at the rear bumper with his brand new M1A rifle. I interrupted him just before the swing and asked what’s up and he replied the BLAKETY BLANK rifle can’t hold the black at 600 yards! I asked if I could see it and he gladly handed to me as a son handing his Father his broken toy knowing who I was with the Air Force Team. I tilted the rifle down and pointed it back up and the gas piston was frozen up. I asked him to follow me to my truck and gave it a quick once over and discovered another problem. Yes the rear sight adjustment knobs where out of adjustment. You can raise the rear sight and push it back down with your thumb, not good! Anyhow, I gave it a thorough physical from muzzle to butt. Tightened front sight, adjusted rear sight and thoroughly cleaned and lube. Next we went back to the firing line and after 3 sighting rounds, I shot 2- 10’s and 1- X rolled onto my left side and this fella was so happy he couldn’t stand it!!!

So what’s my point here?

There are those who buy something that is above their technical understanding of it. In this case, the shooter owned an AR15 and had no working knowledge of the M1’s. Other cases are individuals owning a rifle and purchasing a Muzzle Loader who shoot it then put it away for the season discovering the next season a corroded barrel because they failed to clean it and the list goes on and on!

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Simply put I hate it when a nice gun gets a scratch. I hunt like heck and don't worry with my SBE. It has a plastic stock. On the other hand I fret about taking my Shiloh Sharps (beautiful walnut stock) to the range for a shot or two. My Grade III Citori has 2 dings I will never get over.

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from libertyfirst wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Dents and dings and scratches mean nothing to me at all if the gun came by them honestly during hunting activities, but those same marks stand out like a sore thumb for the rest of your life if they came about because of neglect and abuse. I really don't pamper my guns, some of them don't look all that great, but they all have gotten to were they are from use-not abuse.

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from Gritz wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

The way I look at it, my firearms, which I purchased with hard earned money, are not really mine. I am using them while they are in my possession. When I am no longer able to used them, they will all fall to the next hands. I do not cry when my rifle takes a bump against a tree. I don't spend all of my time outdoors protecting it from every branch and moist leaf. But I do, however, use common sense, clean it religiously, and keep it oiled and ready to go. I do this because my father has a few very nice family rifles that I learned to shoot on. One such gun was mine for 14 years of hunting before I could afford my own. When I had it, I kept it clean and shooting strait. I gave it back as good as I received it. I was up to my father's house last hunting season and asked to see it. It was in his basement in a pile of old junk along with four other fairly nice rifles that had not even been wiped down since the prior season. Every rifle, including a family piece from the Spanish American War, had rust pits from here to there. My father never bought any of these rifles. They are all older than him and were passed to him in good condition. He, for some reason, decided that he was not responsible for passing these on and they will likely end their useful lives in his dank basement. For that reason, I began a new collection that will begin anew. With this collection I will make sure to pass on the traditions and sense of responsibility towards the future of hunting so as to ensure that this set of long guns does not fade anytime soon.

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from nc30-06 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

All of my rifles and pistols are special to me. I bought nine of them new. The rest were used but in very good condition. I have tried to keep every one of them in at least as good condition as when I got them. A couple, I have brought back from less than good condition. I agree with you Gritz. They will be passed on at some point to people who will use and take care of them. My left-hand Remington 700 was used and had a couple of little nicks, but to me it is a beautiful rifle.

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from blueridge wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Dave Petzel has character, and it shows in this blog. His observations about preserving the work and mastery of the gunsmith resonnates with me, and with my Dad before me. Johan seems to 'get it', too.

My old Mausers and Mannlichers have their 'smiths talking to me, every time I take them for a walk in the woods, or on the wide fields. Even my Great Grandfather's Kentucky rifle has the ernest care of a forgotten American smithy speaking across the century to my aging hands.

Personally, I believe that men of character honor that, and pass it on. Nothing is quite like a 'family' firearm, that has memories attached to it, and put into one's hands.

Rock on, Petzel.

Blue

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from Scott in Ohio wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

For my first hunting trip I was loaned a pump shotgun from my grandfather. Before he handed it to me however, he removed and showed me the inside of the barrel. Inside it shined like the sun. Next he showed me the barrel of an old single barrel break action shotgun that his brother has used 40 years ago one New Years Eve and had never bothered to wipe clean the barrel. This barrel was dark and pitted. That one early lesson taught me to always take care of my equipment. I still clean each of my firearms immediately upon returning home...and the barrel of that old Marlin pump (which I now own) still shines like the sun.

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from imawild1 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I was taught that, if you have nice things, you have to take care of them. It works for firearms, relationships, trucks, or dogs. It doesn't matter the cost, to fully enjoy anything in life, you have to put in a little effort yourself.

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from Carney wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

If you take care of your tools, your tools will take care of you.

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from Zermoid wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I personally don't clean the barrel of my hunting rifle until season is over, I sight it in a few days before season and the bore doesn't get touched till after the season is over as a clean bore always shoots a little off from a fouled bore and it was sighted fouled. And I've never figured out how to get the deer to let me take a fouling shot before shooting at it. I missed the best deer of my life because of cleaning my rifle mid season and not having an opportunity to re-sight before heading back out. Never again.

I also wouldn't consider buying a expensive work of art rifle, it would never leave the gun case. And a gun you can't bring yourself to use is worthless in my book. Sure some antique guns that are un-shootable have history that would make them worth owning, but buying a new rifle just to look at it? No. I prefer a good shooting used gun that if it ends up clattering down a mountainside I won't cry over for days. I have a few "new" guns leftover from when I had a small gun shop. A Llama IX-C 45 pistol, a Norinco JW-15 22, (Which I re-did the God awful stock on, it's now nicely checkered and Tung Oil finished and looks as good as it shoots with ammo it likes, CCI Blazer! Go figure) and a 25ACP hammer fired pistol that I cannot remember the make of at the moment, and a Savage pump shotgun I bought around 1985 when I started hunting, bought it at JC Penney! Try to do that today! (Yes, they were a real department store at one time)

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from duckcreekdick wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

As an eight-year old boy, I once left my Daisy BB gun out in the yard overnight. When I later remembered and recovered it, it had light rust all over. I felt I had let my Dad down by not caring for my rifle. Never again has that happened to any firearm of mine.
You can generally size up the respect and care a person has for his rifle or shotgun by watching if he rests the butt of the firearm on his foot or on the dirt.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

IS THE BLOG DOWN?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Funny it didn't take my first two posts.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

All . . .

I grew up in a house in which my father's guns, and then my stepfather's guns, happily resided. Both men, veterans from families of meager financial means, highly prized their quality tools--including firearms--and took great pains to ensure their respective tools's perfect functionality and reliability. Both men could, and did, view a beautiful rifle as art, and yet also, simultaneously, as weapon or survival tool.

The first real rifle I ever shot was my father's Remington single-shot bolt action .22, simple yet pretty, maybe five pounds in weight (if even that), very accurate, not a single unnecessary adornment anywhere on it, with a peep sight that worked. My father showed me how to disassemble and clean the rifle, which I was always required to do within a day of shooting it. I took up polishing the dark walnut stock on my own.

My stepfather's everyday working rifle was a .270 built on a Mauser 98 action embedded in what had once been a pretty, and nicely hand-checkered, light-colored walnut (or maybe rosewood) stock. But by the time I first saw that rifle in the late 1960s, it was already at least twenty-five years old and had been on countless expeditions to the wilds of Idaho, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana and just about every other mountainous state in the continental U.S. The rifle's checkering was worn almost completely smooth. The barrel might appear blue if you rubbed dirt and dust on it, but there was no original bluing left on it at all, worn off by many hard years of use in the field. The original sling swivels had sheered off and had been replaced with new swivels drilled into new holes--the mule carrying the rifle in a leather side scabbard had slipped off an icy trail in Idaho in -20F weather and and tumbled into a ravine--and the pistol grip of the stock had a deep crack nearly all the way through it that my stepfather had dealt with in the mountains via the contents of a tiny bottle of superglue and a yard or two of gray duct tape. Pretty the rifle was not. I once asked my stepfather why he didn't junk the old stock and put a new one on the rifle, and why he didn't reblue the barrel or replace it. Always a man of very few words except when he was trying to teach me something or was angry at me, my stepfather merely looked at me with surprised raised eyebrows and said, mildly, "Because she doesn't miss." And he was right. I never raised the subject with him again.

About five months ago I acquired an excellent condition Model 70 Featherweight in 7x57 Mauser. The previous owner had either been a gunsmith or had had one who was a good friend, because the bolt glitters like a diamond and glides like butter, the trigger is wonderfully crisp and light, the barrel is a gorgeous deep blue on the outside and is brilliantly bright and shiny on the inside, the stock is beautiful and lovely and pretty, and the rifle, overall, is a dream to handle. Alas, she is a touch rebellious and doesn't shoot all that well just yet--I've just started experimenting with handloads for her--but I did take the rifle to a P.O. Ackley-trained gunsmith to glass- and pillar-bed the action and do some inner work on the magazine and chamber, and I expect the rifle and I to come to an agreement about producing MOA groups (at least) in the near future. So far I've managed not to ding the rifle at all, although she has a very few tiny dings and scratches here and there on her already, including one or two accumulated at the gunshop (always a dangerous place for any rifle).

While at the range a week or two ago, my shooting partner, who knows how much I value the beauty and functionality of this particular sweet beautiful 7x57, pointed out that I was pouring sweat all over the rifle while testing it from the bench, and expressed concern that I was staining the stock or causing corrosion on the barrel from my gallons of sweat produced by a blistering TX sun. But to me, this kind of naturally-accumulated wear and tear is part and parcel of owning and using a fine rifle; it comes with the territory. I told my buddy that if the stock became a little stained, that was all right. If the barrel lost a touch of its bluing, that was all right, too. As long as she didn't miss when I needed her to shoot straight and true, little signs of accumulated wear and tear and love along the way would always be just fine with me and, I'm sure, with her, too.

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from Bernie wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I have known several people over the years who took pride in treating a firearm like a garden rake. I think it was a reaction to my lifelong habit of treasuring and caring for my own guns. They seemed to enjoy my outrage at their lack of care.

In my experience, a hunter can take an expensive rifle on 90 percent of North American hunts without damaging the rifle. The exceptions might be a backpack Dall sheep hunt in the Chugach Mountains, or an Alaska brown bear hunt. On either hunt, you are bound to encounter foul weather. I wouldn't subject a $6,000 rifle to alders and the inevitable rubbing against a backframe on the Dall sheep hunt. Neither would I use a fine custom rifle on a brown bear hunt where you are sure to encounter more alders, rain, salt spray and what-have-you.

But if a guy just uses a little common sense, you can take a fine rifle hunting just about anywhere else and not wreck it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Let’s add just one more category to rifle abuse!
Back in 88, Mom and Dad came up from Arkansas to Eielson AFB to visit. First weekend Dad and I headed out to Chicken Alaska. You’re probably wondering why in the “Sam Hill” they named a small town Chicken? During the town Hall meeting to name the town, nobody didn’t know how to spell ptarmigan. Dad and I decided to campout by the Post Office and the next morning we rode in and came back out for lunch. As I was dinking around a couple of guys rode up and this one hunter had a 03-A3 across his back riding a 230 Suzuki (http://www.atvriders.com/images/suzuki/vintage/suzuki-1985-lt230-quad-sp...) with a 5 gallon gas jug tied to the handle bar. Every which way the ATV tilted the gas jug would flop that way. I told him he was going to roll his bike and he said no way. Being an 03-A3 buff I asked if I could see his rifle and he handed it to me. I noticed before he did the firing pin was down so I expected the rifle was unloaded, NOT! The safety was off and the firing pin was lowered. I told him that the most dangerous way to carry it and once again he thought different. So I stepped away from everyone got everyone’s attention and pointed it in a safe direction. I gave the firing pin a sharp rap with my Buck Model 110 knife, BOOM!! so much for that theory!! They rode off and about an hour later this fella came back off the hill looking like he went thru a cement truck! Giant goose egg on his forehead, handle bars bent and the stock on his 03-A3 bust and the grip. All he wanted to know is if I had a spare stock I could loan him. Looking at his pupils it was obvious he had a concussion and since he was Military I pulled rank on him and pointed him towards medical help.

Bottom line!
There are those who go afield not prepared with the right equipment and knowledge for tasks at hand especially how to keep out of trouble yet alone what to do if something happens. This hunter was careless from the get go!!

By the way, We all went down to Valdez and Mom and Dad had a blast catching Salmon!!!

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from Bella wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I don't have any "expensive" firearms, I have some functional firearms with some of the more traditional features I prefer. wood stocks, exposed hammers and no plastic. I got every one used, but I treat my old Mossberg, Savage and Ithaca Like they were Purdys, My Rugers are, well they are Rugers, My BP rifle is from Traditions. I clean my few old guns like I was still in uniform and depended on them every day (not that I ever had to in my AirForce Days). All of my guns were not young when I got them but I try not to let them age in my custody. I understand that some folks think physical objects (like a gun) are meant to be used up like tissues, but I see that often well cared for used tools (like a gun) are superior in quality and care of manufacture to younger goods. But if they aren't cleaned and oiled and cared for they cannot last. I become emotionally attached to my arms anyway, If I don't feel good with it, I don't keep it.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I enjoy my beautiful firearms an use most of them to hunt with. Kinda hurs when I put dents and scratches on them. I am 74 and kinda clumsy these days, so I bought a MArlin XL7 in Syn stock to haul around on my 4 wheeler and truck. Did not cost a ton and if it gets beat up I'm ok. I keep lots of stain, stel wool, Blueing, etc, an will fix the really bd licks. But as stated above, guns are tools and should be used for the job intended. Just Hope/Pray make another season here and in the Rockies. All my long guns zeroed at 200 yds plus l" and they shoot to point of aim. Shoot-um-straight and often. O, have you guys bought your switch-blade yet?

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from buckhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I don't spend good money on equipment to pamper it. I spend good money on equipment so I have equipment that will absorb abuse and still function at a high level.

I consider all the scratches on my guns a fond memory.

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from jamesti wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

i have expensive rifles and rifles that i have paid less than 100 bucks for. i treat them the same and understand the circumstances that i take then into. every scratch is painful! but also a memory. it's called hunting.

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from Edward J. Palumbo wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I've owned two rifles with beautifully figured walnut stocks, and worried about scratching or denting both of them. I handled it as if it was stocked in fine crystal, and that's not the way to appreciate a rifle that's perfect for the field. Rifles with plain or laminated stocks went to the field with me. The beauties went no further than the rifle range. Lesson: What goes afield and what sits in the rack like a wallflower? I've sold a number of rifles in the past few years and the favorites remain, but none of them fit into the "too beautiful to take afield" category.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Gunslinger

Maybe if the importation of one-handed opening knives is banned, a quality USA made selection will be manufactured!

Hope you get out West again this year.

Best regards

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

NOS This is an Item of interest to current and former military members. This man was a true hero. Not to be confused with some of the clowns that our media call heros these days.

http://www.military.com/news/article/twotime-navy-cross-recipient-dies.h...

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from crm3006 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Thanks Del-
In this age when everybody from a guy who gets overpaid to play a game to a deceased pedophile to a schmuck who gets home from being a POW is called a "hero", it is a real good experience to read about a man that was a real hero, not once, but time and again.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Thanks, Del. My kind of hero, too!

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from ggmack wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

my girlfriend just bought her self a brand new stag arms 6.8 mm Stag 7 for predator patrol. it is keep in a hard case mounted on the bed rail of the truck. she still keeps and older, dinged up handmy down mini 14 in the back seat though.

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from JCDunn wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine."

Never know when your life may depend on your rifle, even on a hunting trip. Seems enough reason to take of it, especially since you though you may have 32 more, you probably won't have 32 more with you.

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from JCDunn wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

last post should have said "take care of it" not merely "take of it." Damn typos.

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from randwarner wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I don't treasure my guns like I used to. I use them much harder these days also. Maybe it is a function of having kids and seeing them slowly destroy everything I own?

I've used my wood clad cooper .270 for 20 hunts. Many of these hunts were in snow. Guess what? It still looks just fine. Shocking, but true. I wipe it down when I get in and try to be careful with it, but I am sort of done with getting sick over dings and things.

I say that guys that are too scared of taking a nice looking rig out are being melodramatic. Mine has a scratch or two, but nothing too bad. Maybe there is another reason Echol's Mcm stock is so popular...so guys will actaully use them in the field.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I am in the process of thinning out my 'safe queens' by giving a couple of them to young hunters in need of a good rifle and selling others that are in pristine condition that I will never likely take to the field. What the heck, I won't live forever and I sure won't be hunting forever. When I can't hike the mountains, I'll drive around to the camps and see how the hunters are doing. When that becomes too hard, I guess I'll hang out with the other old farts at the trap club.

I like to take care of my weapons and hate to see them scratched and dinged, but they are designed to be used.

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from duff wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

My firend in college had Beretta Golden Snipe that his dad had got a great deal on as an importer back in the late 60's. I had Topper and used to run alongside my buddy with a second shell in my teeth in case I need 2 quick shots, which was quite often. Boy I admired that beretta! It wasn't until I was 20 that I could finally afford my own O/U, which I fallen in love with since using Dan's Beretta. I bought a Citori in 1978 (fixed chokes).
A week later we were shooting trap at a friend's farm, and the guns were leaned up against the side of a barn (probably 5-6 shotguns)as we set up the thrower. A fellow showed up with one the regular guys we shot with, who was always a "borrower of guns". He had his kid with him, who proceeded to knock all the guns over in succession like dominoes. My new Citori got a nice scratch on the forearm. Rather than let this ruin our session, we used it as a learning experience for the kid.
About a half hour later, I went to the barn to get another box of clays. On my return, the gun borrower was instructing his kid the (im)proper use of a shotgun to shoot clays with my Citori. The kid had a big Carhart coat on and when he shot the gun, the rear stock got a nice zipper scratch due to his improper mount.
I really look after my gear, and while marks are marks, I like to be the one causing any damage through controlled use. This was a big lesson for me.
Thanks.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

WAMtn hunter; Hope you correct on the one hnd knives. I also collect knives and now its hard to find a knife tat even looks like a old Case. I got a Marbles Sheath knife my uncle gave me 64 yrs ago. Caried that knife on many hunts a well as my Son. Found ot that Marbls was back in busiess again so bought a exact Copy and now I use it. If it gets scratch or even lost doubt I would cry. I try not to abuse my equiptment, never used a gun as a Axe handle, but do use whenever I hunt a certain gun for what-ever game I'm hunting. ou may recall my True story of the older man coming into deer camp with a old looking beat up 06 with wood stock with Elec. tape around the grip and hardly any shine or blueing. No one said a word. Next AM old man was gone before us younger guys had a coffee.About 30 minutes after light BAMM. Shortly the old man came into Camp with blood on his hands and ask the Outiftter if he could borrow a pack mule to get his 6 x 6 out. Enough said. Looks don't matter, results do. Shoot-um-straight and often. Thanks the way I feel about my 700 CDL in 06, us while I'm around, if gets bet up or scratched so what. That gun has killed over a dozen animals and only once a 2nd shot used and it was not necessary. I hope I can beat all the finish off beforer I'm thru hunting. But I do clean and oil and wipe down after each hunt.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Gunslinger

I know what you mean. I removed the original factory stock off my Remington 700 Classis .35 Whelen several years ago before it got too beat up. Still in about 95%. The blueing is probably about 90% except for the trigger guard and floorplate which have seen better days. The bolt handle is beginning to show wear and the BDL stock with fine figure has seen hard times before I bought it and put it on the 700. Because of the stock, it probably has more character than most in camp, but I never abuse it and clean, dry, and oil daily in the field. If an elk wanders close enought to smell the Rem Oil, he's already in trouble! My Weatherby wears a gray composite stock, but every other rifle has walnut and blued steel. All but one shotgun is wood/blued. I don't have any stainless guns, so I try to take care of what I have. Just like the 4x4 pickup with 277,000 miles driven daily.

Best regards.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Should be "Remington 700 Classic"

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from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Hell, I treat all my guns like a newborn baby... if I get so much as a scratch on one or something, it will ruine my day and possibly my hunt. All I will be thinking about is going home and working the scratch off and cleaning the gun. I know some people who have had guns that do not believe in cleaning them for some reason... I do not know how that works but I believe that if you treat your rifle well, it will return the favor.

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from jimmied wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I am a little late logging on. I own a 280 Cooper Model 52 Western Classic with a Z6 2X12 Swarovski sitting on top. I purchased it as a retirement gift (from me to me). It is beautiful and it shoots like a house on fire. It really loves Nosler 120 grain ballistic tips. On a good day, if I do my part,it will shoot 3/8 groups.I did not buy it to look at, I will use it to hunt. I am 66 years old and not using it never crossed my mind. I will never forget how my dad never used floor mats in his car or pickup. He said he would wear it out, it is his ride and he had no intention of saving the carpet for the next owner.
I will enjoy the rifle, it is mine. Sitting in my stand I will look at it just to pass the time, knowing I may shoot a nice white tail or a prime hog if the right one comes around and enjoy life to the fullest. You never know when your life may end, this could be the last sun rise. It is an event we all must face. The next person that owns my Cooper will know it was hunted with. I don't think I will care.
Jimmie D

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from crm3006 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
Know what you mean about the wear and tear on stocks. My Old Ugly has a whole lot of paint where the stock has been chipped or scratched. I am considering a hard camo overlay for the whole stock if I can ever bear for that gun to be out of sight that long. On the other hand, that stock has (at last count) 27 marks for dead deer down near the butt.
Gunslinger-Check out the new Case Trapperlock
one hand opener, comes with yellow or bone handles, looks like it was made in 1950! You might like it.

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from Jere Smith wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

el, good to hear about the Marine, with 2 Navy Crosses you would think he SHOULD have had the MOH!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

crm3006

Gonna pull the Whelen apart this week and apply some steel wool scrubbing, some touch up stain and a fresh coat of matte finish spray polyurethane. Then torque it back together, scrub the bore real good, and cut some paper! Maybe I can find a grip cap to replace the long broken and lost one.

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from wingshooter54 wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

Regarding McElroy and Page's guns; "Beware of the man with one gun....he probably knows how to use it."
Michael

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from Mike Diehl wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

"So to treat it like a shovel is something I am simply not capeable of doing. I might also add I intentionally do no spend (any) time around people who do or those who are carelessly hard on guns and other impotant gear."

I agree. Every time my rifle or shotgun goes into the field it gets cleaned when it returns. You can buy a nice looking gun or you can buy a plain old smokemaker, but they all get cleaned if they're mine.

I don't mind taking an upscale gun hunting, knowing that the wood is going to accumulate little scratches and dents. Even the king's own shotgun ought to be used to hunt. But whether it's a Weatherby Athena d'Italia or a Stoeger Classic Single it should be given proper care and maintenance.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

WAMtnhunter:
All my hunting guns that I use mostly are 700's except the B/P jobs and 2 are T/C's and a CVA inline. Been a Remington user for many years. In fact got my first Remington ( still have and use) a Sportsman 48 Auto thatthe bbl recoils and have 2 bbls for it. It has killd many deer as whr I once hunted for l5 yrs was Buck Shot only and I ordered a 30" full choke for the 48. Custom made are ok if you want to blow $ but my Remington 700's in classice 30-06 and 25-06 do me just fine. I cn;s see a gun smith improving on my results with a l0K gun. I do own one Custon built onMauser action real fancy but don;t like it or use it as i hate the claw extractor.When some rich hunter coe by with a bundle it goesm it's also a 06, dble set triggers, solid rib on top and a wedge in the forearm like a T/C B/P has 3 screws to hold action/to bbl. Beautiful Turkish Walnut with cheek piece. I traded several use guns for it as That was only way I could ever afford a Custom built rifle. With the 700's topped with Nikons and Leupolds mounts they shoot where I aim an thats all we need. The 06 and 25-06 have both killed game beyond 350 yds which I was fooled in distance, then I bought a Nikon Rangefinder so would know the dist. Just hope my health improves so can hunt here in NC this year. Been on sick list since Jan. no improvement. I got Position Vertigo or Mimniers disease. Take treatments weekly plus a to of Rx's. Shot-um-straight and very often.PS; If Dr get me straightren out will take my Son and a friend to Craig, Co next year for the 3 Season or which ever hs the longest seson after the lst season ad they get snow.Unless my mind changes,I've flown my last trip, as cost for luggage is out of this world and they ruined 2 high $ and quality cases. Did get a l/2 $ replacement on l.More later. I get dizzy if set up long.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

WAMtn hunter: I just want to get well so can hunt period. Even if not wher I'd like to hunt. Just to be out there makes a great day for a old man of 74. Di break-down a while back and bought one of the new MArlin XL7's to haul about on my 4 wheeler and truck. Gun is nice and well built plus the metal fits th syn stock like a glove. Plus I never owned a 270 an I want to try one on the w-tails here. Got it scoped and ready for final zeoring in, shooting a tad low for me lst time out , I like for all my large caliber guns to be at 200 yds + l'.That 0 will just about get any game I plan t hunt here and in the Rockies. These Sciroccos by Rem in l80 grs will fly flat an long.I tried 4 brands sof bullets when I bought this CDL Classic and the Sciroccos did the better of the 4 I tried. I do like the Bonded bullet. Ikilled a huge Mulie in MT last yr at 50 yds, and was able to recover the bullet (the first) and it ws spreadout about the size of a penny, so does a make a good size hole on it way thu the animal and like the 2 hole blood stream, easy to trail if necessary. Shoot-um-straight and often. Do you live in Washington State? I was there in 98.My wife and I made a cross country trip that year , drove l0K miles in 4 months plus a few rentalcars, saw 28 states. Now I only lack 2 states seeing them all Texas and OK. Yet for my final hunt, I want to try ELk in NM or C0 again.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Two thumbs up for David!

Let’s add another category to rifle abuse!

I remember at a High Power Match in Albuquerque New Mexico when I caught a shooter as he was rearing back for the big swing at the rear bumper with his brand new M1A rifle. I interrupted him just before the swing and asked what’s up and he replied the BLAKETY BLANK rifle can’t hold the black at 600 yards! I asked if I could see it and he gladly handed to me as a son handing his Father his broken toy knowing who I was with the Air Force Team. I tilted the rifle down and pointed it back up and the gas piston was frozen up. I asked him to follow me to my truck and gave it a quick once over and discovered another problem. Yes the rear sight adjustment knobs where out of adjustment. You can raise the rear sight and push it back down with your thumb, not good! Anyhow, I gave it a thorough physical from muzzle to butt. Tightened front sight, adjusted rear sight and thoroughly cleaned and lube. Next we went back to the firing line and after 3 sighting rounds, I shot 2- 10’s and 1- X rolled onto my left side and this fella was so happy he couldn’t stand it!!!

So what’s my point here?

There are those who buy something that is above their technical understanding of it. In this case, the shooter owned an AR15 and had no working knowledge of the M1’s. Other cases are individuals owning a rifle and purchasing a Muzzle Loader who shoot it then put it away for the season discovering the next season a corroded barrel because they failed to clean it and the list goes on and on!

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

All . . .

I grew up in a house in which my father's guns, and then my stepfather's guns, happily resided. Both men, veterans from families of meager financial means, highly prized their quality tools--including firearms--and took great pains to ensure their respective tools's perfect functionality and reliability. Both men could, and did, view a beautiful rifle as art, and yet also, simultaneously, as weapon or survival tool.

The first real rifle I ever shot was my father's Remington single-shot bolt action .22, simple yet pretty, maybe five pounds in weight (if even that), very accurate, not a single unnecessary adornment anywhere on it, with a peep sight that worked. My father showed me how to disassemble and clean the rifle, which I was always required to do within a day of shooting it. I took up polishing the dark walnut stock on my own.

My stepfather's everyday working rifle was a .270 built on a Mauser 98 action embedded in what had once been a pretty, and nicely hand-checkered, light-colored walnut (or maybe rosewood) stock. But by the time I first saw that rifle in the late 1960s, it was already at least twenty-five years old and had been on countless expeditions to the wilds of Idaho, Oregon, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, Montana and just about every other mountainous state in the continental U.S. The rifle's checkering was worn almost completely smooth. The barrel might appear blue if you rubbed dirt and dust on it, but there was no original bluing left on it at all, worn off by many hard years of use in the field. The original sling swivels had sheered off and had been replaced with new swivels drilled into new holes--the mule carrying the rifle in a leather side scabbard had slipped off an icy trail in Idaho in -20F weather and and tumbled into a ravine--and the pistol grip of the stock had a deep crack nearly all the way through it that my stepfather had dealt with in the mountains via the contents of a tiny bottle of superglue and a yard or two of gray duct tape. Pretty the rifle was not. I once asked my stepfather why he didn't junk the old stock and put a new one on the rifle, and why he didn't reblue the barrel or replace it. Always a man of very few words except when he was trying to teach me something or was angry at me, my stepfather merely looked at me with surprised raised eyebrows and said, mildly, "Because she doesn't miss." And he was right. I never raised the subject with him again.

About five months ago I acquired an excellent condition Model 70 Featherweight in 7x57 Mauser. The previous owner had either been a gunsmith or had had one who was a good friend, because the bolt glitters like a diamond and glides like butter, the trigger is wonderfully crisp and light, the barrel is a gorgeous deep blue on the outside and is brilliantly bright and shiny on the inside, the stock is beautiful and lovely and pretty, and the rifle, overall, is a dream to handle. Alas, she is a touch rebellious and doesn't shoot all that well just yet--I've just started experimenting with handloads for her--but I did take the rifle to a P.O. Ackley-trained gunsmith to glass- and pillar-bed the action and do some inner work on the magazine and chamber, and I expect the rifle and I to come to an agreement about producing MOA groups (at least) in the near future. So far I've managed not to ding the rifle at all, although she has a very few tiny dings and scratches here and there on her already, including one or two accumulated at the gunshop (always a dangerous place for any rifle).

While at the range a week or two ago, my shooting partner, who knows how much I value the beauty and functionality of this particular sweet beautiful 7x57, pointed out that I was pouring sweat all over the rifle while testing it from the bench, and expressed concern that I was staining the stock or causing corrosion on the barrel from my gallons of sweat produced by a blistering TX sun. But to me, this kind of naturally-accumulated wear and tear is part and parcel of owning and using a fine rifle; it comes with the territory. I told my buddy that if the stock became a little stained, that was all right. If the barrel lost a touch of its bluing, that was all right, too. As long as she didn't miss when I needed her to shoot straight and true, little signs of accumulated wear and tear and love along the way would always be just fine with me and, I'm sure, with her, too.

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from Gritz wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

The way I look at it, my firearms, which I purchased with hard earned money, are not really mine. I am using them while they are in my possession. When I am no longer able to used them, they will all fall to the next hands. I do not cry when my rifle takes a bump against a tree. I don't spend all of my time outdoors protecting it from every branch and moist leaf. But I do, however, use common sense, clean it religiously, and keep it oiled and ready to go. I do this because my father has a few very nice family rifles that I learned to shoot on. One such gun was mine for 14 years of hunting before I could afford my own. When I had it, I kept it clean and shooting strait. I gave it back as good as I received it. I was up to my father's house last hunting season and asked to see it. It was in his basement in a pile of old junk along with four other fairly nice rifles that had not even been wiped down since the prior season. Every rifle, including a family piece from the Spanish American War, had rust pits from here to there. My father never bought any of these rifles. They are all older than him and were passed to him in good condition. He, for some reason, decided that he was not responsible for passing these on and they will likely end their useful lives in his dank basement. For that reason, I began a new collection that will begin anew. With this collection I will make sure to pass on the traditions and sense of responsibility towards the future of hunting so as to ensure that this set of long guns does not fade anytime soon.

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from blueridge wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Dave Petzel has character, and it shows in this blog. His observations about preserving the work and mastery of the gunsmith resonnates with me, and with my Dad before me. Johan seems to 'get it', too.

My old Mausers and Mannlichers have their 'smiths talking to me, every time I take them for a walk in the woods, or on the wide fields. Even my Great Grandfather's Kentucky rifle has the ernest care of a forgotten American smithy speaking across the century to my aging hands.

Personally, I believe that men of character honor that, and pass it on. Nothing is quite like a 'family' firearm, that has memories attached to it, and put into one's hands.

Rock on, Petzel.

Blue

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from Asherdan wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Tools, equipment, horses, rifles, I view 'em all the same. I have 'em because I picked 'em out to do a specific job and I maintain 'em because of the pleasure good working gear (and stock) gives me in using them. I expect equipment to be used, not abused, regardless of co$t.

I might find them pretty in their own way, too.

Regardless, someone with a mindset that allows them to junk up or abuse perfectly good equipment is someone I'd trust about as far as I could kick 'em.

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from imawild1 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I was taught that, if you have nice things, you have to take care of them. It works for firearms, relationships, trucks, or dogs. It doesn't matter the cost, to fully enjoy anything in life, you have to put in a little effort yourself.

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from Carney wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

If you take care of your tools, your tools will take care of you.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Gunslinger

Maybe if the importation of one-handed opening knives is banned, a quality USA made selection will be manufactured!

Hope you get out West again this year.

Best regards

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from crm3006 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I would put people who.. "like to bash expensive gear because it shows they are above mere material concerns. Or it may be a way of letting the world know that they don’t care if they reduce a gun to rubble..",
in the same category as butt-wipes who abuse horses and kick their dogs. To be avoided if at all possible, and if not possible, to be made the victim of any possible misfortune it
is within my ability to arrange or instigate.
That being said, I hate to hunt with someone who weeps, wails and gnashes teeth about the least little nick or scratch to a piece of equipment. I try to keep my firearms in the best mechanical and cosmetic condition possible, some even have 50+ years of use by
myself and preceding generations, but a firearm is a tool, and with use will acquire wear marks. Unlike DEP, I do not own any truly costly or high end guns, but if I ever acquire one, I will probably baby it if I ever get to the point of hunting with it.

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from crm3006 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Thanks Del-
In this age when everybody from a guy who gets overpaid to play a game to a deceased pedophile to a schmuck who gets home from being a POW is called a "hero", it is a real good experience to read about a man that was a real hero, not once, but time and again.

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from crm3006 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

WA Mtnhunter-
Know what you mean about the wear and tear on stocks. My Old Ugly has a whole lot of paint where the stock has been chipped or scratched. I am considering a hard camo overlay for the whole stock if I can ever bear for that gun to be out of sight that long. On the other hand, that stock has (at last count) 27 marks for dead deer down near the butt.
Gunslinger-Check out the new Case Trapperlock
one hand opener, comes with yellow or bone handles, looks like it was made in 1950! You might like it.

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

NOS This is an Item of interest to current and former military members. This man was a true hero. Not to be confused with some of the clowns that our media call heros these days.

http://www.military.com/news/article/twotime-navy-cross-recipient-dies.h...

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from jjas wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Petzal quote:Some people like to bash expensive gear because it shows they are above mere material concerns. Or it may be a way of letting the world know that they don’t care if they reduce a gun to rubble....

Dave,

I don't "bash" expensive gear because I think I'm above material concerns, nor do I "reduce" any of my less expensive guns to rubble, because I have 32 others. I take care of all my firearms just as you would your expensive ones.

I just think spending thousands of dollars on a rifle/shotgun/pistol/revolver that offers little (if any) improvements in performance and/or accuracy from one that costs several hundred dollars is not a judicious use of my capital.

You obviously feel differently and I say more power to you.

Jim

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from jamesti wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

i have expensive rifles and rifles that i have paid less than 100 bucks for. i treat them the same and understand the circumstances that i take then into. every scratch is painful! but also a memory. it's called hunting.

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from Bella wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I don't have any "expensive" firearms, I have some functional firearms with some of the more traditional features I prefer. wood stocks, exposed hammers and no plastic. I got every one used, but I treat my old Mossberg, Savage and Ithaca Like they were Purdys, My Rugers are, well they are Rugers, My BP rifle is from Traditions. I clean my few old guns like I was still in uniform and depended on them every day (not that I ever had to in my AirForce Days). All of my guns were not young when I got them but I try not to let them age in my custody. I understand that some folks think physical objects (like a gun) are meant to be used up like tissues, but I see that often well cared for used tools (like a gun) are superior in quality and care of manufacture to younger goods. But if they aren't cleaned and oiled and cared for they cannot last. I become emotionally attached to my arms anyway, If I don't feel good with it, I don't keep it.

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from Scott in Ohio wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

For my first hunting trip I was loaned a pump shotgun from my grandfather. Before he handed it to me however, he removed and showed me the inside of the barrel. Inside it shined like the sun. Next he showed me the barrel of an old single barrel break action shotgun that his brother has used 40 years ago one New Years Eve and had never bothered to wipe clean the barrel. This barrel was dark and pitted. That one early lesson taught me to always take care of my equipment. I still clean each of my firearms immediately upon returning home...and the barrel of that old Marlin pump (which I now own) still shines like the sun.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I enjoy my beautiful firearms an use most of them to hunt with. Kinda hurs when I put dents and scratches on them. I am 74 and kinda clumsy these days, so I bought a MArlin XL7 in Syn stock to haul around on my 4 wheeler and truck. Did not cost a ton and if it gets beat up I'm ok. I keep lots of stain, stel wool, Blueing, etc, an will fix the really bd licks. But as stated above, guns are tools and should be used for the job intended. Just Hope/Pray make another season here and in the Rockies. All my long guns zeroed at 200 yds plus l" and they shoot to point of aim. Shoot-um-straight and often. O, have you guys bought your switch-blade yet?

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from buckhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I don't spend good money on equipment to pamper it. I spend good money on equipment so I have equipment that will absorb abuse and still function at a high level.

I consider all the scratches on my guns a fond memory.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I pamper my guns, and "mentally" beat myself up when I do scratch, or dent, them while in the field.
Dave are you really an "embittered" old observer? I mean can relate to what you're feelin`, it this be that be the truth?
BTW-Every mark on my guns have a story attached to them which seems to justify the damage somewhat. At least a little...

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from jimmied wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I am a little late logging on. I own a 280 Cooper Model 52 Western Classic with a Z6 2X12 Swarovski sitting on top. I purchased it as a retirement gift (from me to me). It is beautiful and it shoots like a house on fire. It really loves Nosler 120 grain ballistic tips. On a good day, if I do my part,it will shoot 3/8 groups.I did not buy it to look at, I will use it to hunt. I am 66 years old and not using it never crossed my mind. I will never forget how my dad never used floor mats in his car or pickup. He said he would wear it out, it is his ride and he had no intention of saving the carpet for the next owner.
I will enjoy the rifle, it is mine. Sitting in my stand I will look at it just to pass the time, knowing I may shoot a nice white tail or a prime hog if the right one comes around and enjoy life to the fullest. You never know when your life may end, this could be the last sun rise. It is an event we all must face. The next person that owns my Cooper will know it was hunted with. I don't think I will care.
Jimmie D

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Let’s add just one more category to rifle abuse!
Back in 88, Mom and Dad came up from Arkansas to Eielson AFB to visit. First weekend Dad and I headed out to Chicken Alaska. You’re probably wondering why in the “Sam Hill” they named a small town Chicken? During the town Hall meeting to name the town, nobody didn’t know how to spell ptarmigan. Dad and I decided to campout by the Post Office and the next morning we rode in and came back out for lunch. As I was dinking around a couple of guys rode up and this one hunter had a 03-A3 across his back riding a 230 Suzuki (http://www.atvriders.com/images/suzuki/vintage/suzuki-1985-lt230-quad-sp...) with a 5 gallon gas jug tied to the handle bar. Every which way the ATV tilted the gas jug would flop that way. I told him he was going to roll his bike and he said no way. Being an 03-A3 buff I asked if I could see his rifle and he handed it to me. I noticed before he did the firing pin was down so I expected the rifle was unloaded, NOT! The safety was off and the firing pin was lowered. I told him that the most dangerous way to carry it and once again he thought different. So I stepped away from everyone got everyone’s attention and pointed it in a safe direction. I gave the firing pin a sharp rap with my Buck Model 110 knife, BOOM!! so much for that theory!! They rode off and about an hour later this fella came back off the hill looking like he went thru a cement truck! Giant goose egg on his forehead, handle bars bent and the stock on his 03-A3 bust and the grip. All he wanted to know is if I had a spare stock I could loan him. Looking at his pupils it was obvious he had a concussion and since he was Military I pulled rank on him and pointed him towards medical help.

Bottom line!
There are those who go afield not prepared with the right equipment and knowledge for tasks at hand especially how to keep out of trouble yet alone what to do if something happens. This hunter was careless from the get go!!

By the way, We all went down to Valdez and Mom and Dad had a blast catching Salmon!!!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Thanks, Del. My kind of hero, too!

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I am in the process of thinning out my 'safe queens' by giving a couple of them to young hunters in need of a good rifle and selling others that are in pristine condition that I will never likely take to the field. What the heck, I won't live forever and I sure won't be hunting forever. When I can't hike the mountains, I'll drive around to the camps and see how the hunters are doing. When that becomes too hard, I guess I'll hang out with the other old farts at the trap club.

I like to take care of my weapons and hate to see them scratched and dinged, but they are designed to be used.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Gunslinger

I know what you mean. I removed the original factory stock off my Remington 700 Classis .35 Whelen several years ago before it got too beat up. Still in about 95%. The blueing is probably about 90% except for the trigger guard and floorplate which have seen better days. The bolt handle is beginning to show wear and the BDL stock with fine figure has seen hard times before I bought it and put it on the 700. Because of the stock, it probably has more character than most in camp, but I never abuse it and clean, dry, and oil daily in the field. If an elk wanders close enought to smell the Rem Oil, he's already in trouble! My Weatherby wears a gray composite stock, but every other rifle has walnut and blued steel. All but one shotgun is wood/blued. I don't have any stainless guns, so I try to take care of what I have. Just like the 4x4 pickup with 277,000 miles driven daily.

Best regards.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Should be "Remington 700 Classic"

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from Mike Diehl wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

"So to treat it like a shovel is something I am simply not capeable of doing. I might also add I intentionally do no spend (any) time around people who do or those who are carelessly hard on guns and other impotant gear."

I agree. Every time my rifle or shotgun goes into the field it gets cleaned when it returns. You can buy a nice looking gun or you can buy a plain old smokemaker, but they all get cleaned if they're mine.

I don't mind taking an upscale gun hunting, knowing that the wood is going to accumulate little scratches and dents. Even the king's own shotgun ought to be used to hunt. But whether it's a Weatherby Athena d'Italia or a Stoeger Classic Single it should be given proper care and maintenance.

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from Del in KS wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Simply put I hate it when a nice gun gets a scratch. I hunt like heck and don't worry with my SBE. It has a plastic stock. On the other hand I fret about taking my Shiloh Sharps (beautiful walnut stock) to the range for a shot or two. My Grade III Citori has 2 dings I will never get over.

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

IS THE BLOG DOWN?

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from Dr. Ralph wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Funny it didn't take my first two posts.

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from nc30-06 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

All of my rifles and pistols are special to me. I bought nine of them new. The rest were used but in very good condition. I have tried to keep every one of them in at least as good condition as when I got them. A couple, I have brought back from less than good condition. I agree with you Gritz. They will be passed on at some point to people who will use and take care of them. My left-hand Remington 700 was used and had a couple of little nicks, but to me it is a beautiful rifle.

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from Bernie wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I have known several people over the years who took pride in treating a firearm like a garden rake. I think it was a reaction to my lifelong habit of treasuring and caring for my own guns. They seemed to enjoy my outrage at their lack of care.

In my experience, a hunter can take an expensive rifle on 90 percent of North American hunts without damaging the rifle. The exceptions might be a backpack Dall sheep hunt in the Chugach Mountains, or an Alaska brown bear hunt. On either hunt, you are bound to encounter foul weather. I wouldn't subject a $6,000 rifle to alders and the inevitable rubbing against a backframe on the Dall sheep hunt. Neither would I use a fine custom rifle on a brown bear hunt where you are sure to encounter more alders, rain, salt spray and what-have-you.

But if a guy just uses a little common sense, you can take a fine rifle hunting just about anywhere else and not wreck it.

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from MaxPower wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

It's always good practice to treat rifles right. Do your best to take care of them, because mother nature will do her best to ruin them

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from Edward J. Palumbo wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I've owned two rifles with beautifully figured walnut stocks, and worried about scratching or denting both of them. I handled it as if it was stocked in fine crystal, and that's not the way to appreciate a rifle that's perfect for the field. Rifles with plain or laminated stocks went to the field with me. The beauties went no further than the rifle range. Lesson: What goes afield and what sits in the rack like a wallflower? I've sold a number of rifles in the past few years and the favorites remain, but none of them fit into the "too beautiful to take afield" category.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

WAMtn hunter; Hope you correct on the one hnd knives. I also collect knives and now its hard to find a knife tat even looks like a old Case. I got a Marbles Sheath knife my uncle gave me 64 yrs ago. Caried that knife on many hunts a well as my Son. Found ot that Marbls was back in busiess again so bought a exact Copy and now I use it. If it gets scratch or even lost doubt I would cry. I try not to abuse my equiptment, never used a gun as a Axe handle, but do use whenever I hunt a certain gun for what-ever game I'm hunting. ou may recall my True story of the older man coming into deer camp with a old looking beat up 06 with wood stock with Elec. tape around the grip and hardly any shine or blueing. No one said a word. Next AM old man was gone before us younger guys had a coffee.About 30 minutes after light BAMM. Shortly the old man came into Camp with blood on his hands and ask the Outiftter if he could borrow a pack mule to get his 6 x 6 out. Enough said. Looks don't matter, results do. Shoot-um-straight and often. Thanks the way I feel about my 700 CDL in 06, us while I'm around, if gets bet up or scratched so what. That gun has killed over a dozen animals and only once a 2nd shot used and it was not necessary. I hope I can beat all the finish off beforer I'm thru hunting. But I do clean and oil and wipe down after each hunt.

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from buckeye wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I always take good care of my equipment and try like heck to keep them scratch free. Sometimes that first scratch to a new weapon is a blessing in disguise, after I get it a tend to focus more on the hunting and less on trying to make my gun look pretty. I do not abuse any of my gear and it drives me nuts when other do not take the same amount of care with their equipment.

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from duff wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

My firend in college had Beretta Golden Snipe that his dad had got a great deal on as an importer back in the late 60's. I had Topper and used to run alongside my buddy with a second shell in my teeth in case I need 2 quick shots, which was quite often. Boy I admired that beretta! It wasn't until I was 20 that I could finally afford my own O/U, which I fallen in love with since using Dan's Beretta. I bought a Citori in 1978 (fixed chokes).
A week later we were shooting trap at a friend's farm, and the guns were leaned up against the side of a barn (probably 5-6 shotguns)as we set up the thrower. A fellow showed up with one the regular guys we shot with, who was always a "borrower of guns". He had his kid with him, who proceeded to knock all the guns over in succession like dominoes. My new Citori got a nice scratch on the forearm. Rather than let this ruin our session, we used it as a learning experience for the kid.
About a half hour later, I went to the barn to get another box of clays. On my return, the gun borrower was instructing his kid the (im)proper use of a shotgun to shoot clays with my Citori. The kid had a big Carhart coat on and when he shot the gun, the rear stock got a nice zipper scratch due to his improper mount.
I really look after my gear, and while marks are marks, I like to be the one causing any damage through controlled use. This was a big lesson for me.
Thanks.

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from duckcreekdick wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

As an eight-year old boy, I once left my Daisy BB gun out in the yard overnight. When I later remembered and recovered it, it had light rust all over. I felt I had let my Dad down by not caring for my rifle. Never again has that happened to any firearm of mine.
You can generally size up the respect and care a person has for his rifle or shotgun by watching if he rests the butt of the firearm on his foot or on the dirt.

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from Zermoid wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I personally don't clean the barrel of my hunting rifle until season is over, I sight it in a few days before season and the bore doesn't get touched till after the season is over as a clean bore always shoots a little off from a fouled bore and it was sighted fouled. And I've never figured out how to get the deer to let me take a fouling shot before shooting at it. I missed the best deer of my life because of cleaning my rifle mid season and not having an opportunity to re-sight before heading back out. Never again.

I also wouldn't consider buying a expensive work of art rifle, it would never leave the gun case. And a gun you can't bring yourself to use is worthless in my book. Sure some antique guns that are un-shootable have history that would make them worth owning, but buying a new rifle just to look at it? No. I prefer a good shooting used gun that if it ends up clattering down a mountainside I won't cry over for days. I have a few "new" guns leftover from when I had a small gun shop. A Llama IX-C 45 pistol, a Norinco JW-15 22, (Which I re-did the God awful stock on, it's now nicely checkered and Tung Oil finished and looks as good as it shoots with ammo it likes, CCI Blazer! Go figure) and a 25ACP hammer fired pistol that I cannot remember the make of at the moment, and a Savage pump shotgun I bought around 1985 when I started hunting, bought it at JC Penney! Try to do that today! (Yes, they were a real department store at one time)

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from shane wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I treat my guns as carefully as possible, so long as it doesn't become a hindrance to its purpose, shooting game. So sometimes, I'm not so careful. I choose the gun I take accordingly.

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from Jeff4066 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I've never had the budget some of the people you talk about have.

I try to pamper them as well as I can as long as circumstances permit. Military people have to depend on their weapons in a way no civilian does outside of law enforcement. There was simply no question about it. It WILL be cleaned and oiled.

Eventually, with anything, a scratch here and there can't be helped. But deliberate abuse to my tools just doesn't feel right.

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from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Hell, I treat all my guns like a newborn baby... if I get so much as a scratch on one or something, it will ruine my day and possibly my hunt. All I will be thinking about is going home and working the scratch off and cleaning the gun. I know some people who have had guns that do not believe in cleaning them for some reason... I do not know how that works but I believe that if you treat your rifle well, it will return the favor.

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from JCDunn wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

"This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine."

Never know when your life may depend on your rifle, even on a hunting trip. Seems enough reason to take of it, especially since you though you may have 32 more, you probably won't have 32 more with you.

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from JCDunn wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

last post should have said "take care of it" not merely "take of it." Damn typos.

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from libertyfirst wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Dents and dings and scratches mean nothing to me at all if the gun came by them honestly during hunting activities, but those same marks stand out like a sore thumb for the rest of your life if they came about because of neglect and abuse. I really don't pamper my guns, some of them don't look all that great, but they all have gotten to were they are from use-not abuse.

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from 175rltw wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I have aome really plane rifles- fiberglass stock, unfinished barrel, or gunkoted or whatever, and the way those guns shoot is what makes them art, the care in the level of machining makes them somehwat aweinspiring, and I give them care commensurate with thier status as ART. The same goes for my Cooper 257 Bob, The level of craftsmanship there demands that you respect it for the ART that it is. Yeah I use it some, same with my old 722 257 roberts (which is ugly at best, but damn does it shoot) But I hold those rifles in vry high esteem, because they do something really well, weather it be shoot or just pluck at my heart strings (they all shoot, my views on feckless rifles mirror Dave's) My old ruber 44 carbine shoots OK, looks OK, but it gets the same level of love too, again because like most rifles and women, if I look at one long enough I'll find something to fall in love with.

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from ggmack wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

my girlfriend just bought her self a brand new stag arms 6.8 mm Stag 7 for predator patrol. it is keep in a hard case mounted on the bed rail of the truck. she still keeps and older, dinged up handmy down mini 14 in the back seat though.

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from randwarner wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I don't treasure my guns like I used to. I use them much harder these days also. Maybe it is a function of having kids and seeing them slowly destroy everything I own?

I've used my wood clad cooper .270 for 20 hunts. Many of these hunts were in snow. Guess what? It still looks just fine. Shocking, but true. I wipe it down when I get in and try to be careful with it, but I am sort of done with getting sick over dings and things.

I say that guys that are too scared of taking a nice looking rig out are being melodramatic. Mine has a scratch or two, but nothing too bad. Maybe there is another reason Echol's Mcm stock is so popular...so guys will actaully use them in the field.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

crm3006

Gonna pull the Whelen apart this week and apply some steel wool scrubbing, some touch up stain and a fresh coat of matte finish spray polyurethane. Then torque it back together, scrub the bore real good, and cut some paper! Maybe I can find a grip cap to replace the long broken and lost one.

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from wingshooter54 wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

Regarding McElroy and Page's guns; "Beware of the man with one gun....he probably knows how to use it."
Michael

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

WAMtnhunter:
All my hunting guns that I use mostly are 700's except the B/P jobs and 2 are T/C's and a CVA inline. Been a Remington user for many years. In fact got my first Remington ( still have and use) a Sportsman 48 Auto thatthe bbl recoils and have 2 bbls for it. It has killd many deer as whr I once hunted for l5 yrs was Buck Shot only and I ordered a 30" full choke for the 48. Custom made are ok if you want to blow $ but my Remington 700's in classice 30-06 and 25-06 do me just fine. I cn;s see a gun smith improving on my results with a l0K gun. I do own one Custon built onMauser action real fancy but don;t like it or use it as i hate the claw extractor.When some rich hunter coe by with a bundle it goesm it's also a 06, dble set triggers, solid rib on top and a wedge in the forearm like a T/C B/P has 3 screws to hold action/to bbl. Beautiful Turkish Walnut with cheek piece. I traded several use guns for it as That was only way I could ever afford a Custom built rifle. With the 700's topped with Nikons and Leupolds mounts they shoot where I aim an thats all we need. The 06 and 25-06 have both killed game beyond 350 yds which I was fooled in distance, then I bought a Nikon Rangefinder so would know the dist. Just hope my health improves so can hunt here in NC this year. Been on sick list since Jan. no improvement. I got Position Vertigo or Mimniers disease. Take treatments weekly plus a to of Rx's. Shot-um-straight and very often.PS; If Dr get me straightren out will take my Son and a friend to Craig, Co next year for the 3 Season or which ever hs the longest seson after the lst season ad they get snow.Unless my mind changes,I've flown my last trip, as cost for luggage is out of this world and they ruined 2 high $ and quality cases. Did get a l/2 $ replacement on l.More later. I get dizzy if set up long.

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from Gunslinger wrote 2 years 44 weeks ago

WAMtn hunter: I just want to get well so can hunt period. Even if not wher I'd like to hunt. Just to be out there makes a great day for a old man of 74. Di break-down a while back and bought one of the new MArlin XL7's to haul about on my 4 wheeler and truck. Gun is nice and well built plus the metal fits th syn stock like a glove. Plus I never owned a 270 an I want to try one on the w-tails here. Got it scoped and ready for final zeoring in, shooting a tad low for me lst time out , I like for all my large caliber guns to be at 200 yds + l'.That 0 will just about get any game I plan t hunt here and in the Rockies. These Sciroccos by Rem in l80 grs will fly flat an long.I tried 4 brands sof bullets when I bought this CDL Classic and the Sciroccos did the better of the 4 I tried. I do like the Bonded bullet. Ikilled a huge Mulie in MT last yr at 50 yds, and was able to recover the bullet (the first) and it ws spreadout about the size of a penny, so does a make a good size hole on it way thu the animal and like the 2 hole blood stream, easy to trail if necessary. Shoot-um-straight and often. Do you live in Washington State? I was there in 98.My wife and I made a cross country trip that year , drove l0K miles in 4 months plus a few rentalcars, saw 28 states. Now I only lack 2 states seeing them all Texas and OK. Yet for my final hunt, I want to try ELk in NM or C0 again.

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from Bob81 wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

I half agree with alot of the postings here. However, I love the fact that when I accidently drop my Rem 870 in the bottom of the duck boat, it slips out of my numb hands into waist-deep bog water, it acquires a few new scratches protecting my face from the bramble patch I am pushing through trying to catch up to my dog that has a grouse pinned down, I don't have to worry too much since it's already got "lot's of character". (Granted, it always gets stripped down to atomic level when I get home and gets a good oiling.)

Meanwhile, I have a Beretta Onyx o/u that I'm scared to take out on half my bird hunts since I tear up every time it gets the slightest nick or scratch.

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from Jere Smith wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

el, good to hear about the Marine, with 2 Navy Crosses you would think he SHOULD have had the MOH!

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from yohan wrote 2 years 45 weeks ago

Have a Mauser 98 rifle which started life as miltary arm.
Wont state caliber cause the caliber dosent matter,
It was new ( packed in cosmoline ) when I came to own it some 40 years ago.
Over the years,.with condiderablle expenditure of my limited funds as a youth. It was tweeked and worked,.. to what is presently decribd by some of my old hunting cronies as "one damn handsome rifle,.. and a shooter to boot".
As Ralph the DR says,. its not a prom queen but its lines are clean,.. and traditional hand cut checkering on the Italian walnut stock is still about 90 -95 % and it still shoots like a dream.
I think to some extent becuase I decided not to have barrel steps machined out. But I digress
As you might immagine I have taken good care of it.
Yet the stock now shows the miles its been carried through various terain over the past 40 odd years .
So last year i was gonna get the stock cleaned up ,. but
a man Ive hunted with for a very long time said ,. yohan ,. you could do it ,. but that gun's got what I call character now ,. so you might wanna thing that one over once more ,. I did and so ,.. I didn't.

I also mighht mention men who are familiar with it have offered to buy it for a lot of years.
(good luck with that) A nephew has asked to inherit it and one friend has a standing offer for significantly more than its worth . But it aint for sale.
The blueing is still 90- 955 % because with one exsception ( a screwed up compass causing me to be lost over night ) I cleaned it, each and every time I used it.
Regardles if the nights venue was a tent, a shack or snug warm cabin with running water and showers 5 miles from some of the best hunting in the upper midwest.

All that said so there is some levity here
I could probbaly afford to be rougher on things / equipment than I am.

But as mister Petzal says there is heart in that
piece and not just mine.
So to treat it like a shovel is something I am simply not capeable of doing .
I might also add I intentionally do no spend (any) time around people who do or those who are carelessly hard on guns and other impotant gear .
AS I have found generally,. and specifically,. I do not like that personality profile.
To be blunt they p1$$ me off.
Because they commit what I consider intentional or at least carelss waste for resons very likley already stated by Mr Petzal
In world where there are people less than 10 miles from most of us who dont have enough to eat and decent place to sleep.

Intersting Mr Petzal being 180 degrees apart on the political compass we seem to have a similar take on
other things ,. So how the heck is it that a died in the wool concervative ( republican? ) who would likley vote for a Brown Swiss Bull or Sara "O "Palin ,. if it
or it ,.. were running on the republican ticket.
Has anything in common with a concervative liberal like me and the other millions who decided to make the switch this last time around

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