


August 07, 2009
Bourjaily: Blast From The Past
By Philip Bourjaily
A lot has changed in shotgunning since I started hunting in 1979, and I don’t think anything has changed as much as slug shooting has. I remember the days before rifled barrels and sabot slugs. Back then, people really did brag about slug guns that could hit a five-gallon milk jug at 100 yards. My old Polychoked A-5 probably couldn’t hit a milk can every time at 100 feet but I shot quite a few deer with it at close ranges and never lost one.
Fast forward to last week, when my son John and I were cleaning out the garage and we came upon this forgotten target. John is not usually an impertinent kid, but he is 15 and sometimes can’t help himself. He said, “Nice group, Dad. What did you shoot that at, 50 yards?”
I was thinking it was probably a bad 100 yard group and was wondering why I kept the target until I looked at the back where I had written: “Hornady SST. Ithaca DeerSlayer III. 200 yards.”
After smugly reading the back of the target aloud to John, I remembered the day I shot that group spring before last, testing SSTs and Winchester XP3s (which also shot very well) on a measured 200 yard rifle range.
I realize that by centerfire standards, eight inches at 200 yards is not very good. However, considering the state of the art of slugs even a few years ago, five shots in the vitals of a whitetail at 200 yards is impressive accuracy.
Personally, I would not shoot at a real deer that far away. I made the group in the picture on a calm day from a benchrest with a scope re-zeroed to 200 so I wouldn’t have to worry about holdover and I still barely managed to keep all five shots in the vitals. Nevertheless, the is a lot better than minute-of-milk-can accuracy.
Comments (23)
Ha I would have never thought to look on the back and probably would have instantly thrown it away. That's one of those "good day" groups you get every now and then from some guns. Good stuff
I remember seeing the video on the Ithaca website of the guy making "tiny" groups at 200 with that gun. Very impressive. Almost bought one, but then realized than an NEF will do just about as well with the right slugs. Even knowing I could, I can't imagine shooting past 100 yards during shotgun season, I haven't even shot one that far yet. It's too thick where I hunt with slugs, and it's in the same spots I bowhunt, so short shots practically present themselves.
Shotguns with a load they like amaze me... I had a Sweet 16 that would shoot them like a rifle, I know it would have been a sin, but I've often wondered what it would have done with a scope on board.
And old roommate bought a Savage Model 94 in 20 GA, aquired a massive amount of old Winchester super speed paper hull slugs and proceded to amaze me with what the little pump gun and he could do. He still has the gun and he still ocassionally takes a deer with it.
The new slugs, especially the ones shot thru rifled barrels are amazing truly amazing. I will never brag about an old smoothbore I once owned that would shoot 1oz. slugs into 4" at 100 yards because I never had one! 50 yds was more like it.
While I know this group was @ 200 yards, most people who shoot slug guns are happy if their rifled slug gun consistently groups 4-5" @ 100 yards. If a person got that type of accuracy out of $2.00-$4.00 per round from their centerfire rifle they'd have a fit. Sluggers are happy....or @ least realistic.
I'll use a slug gun shooting fiocchi slugs for some of my deer hunting when the shots are going to be pretty close (75 yards or under). The fiocchi's cost me .80 cents per round. If I'm going to hunt where shots may be potentially longer, I'll carry my muzzleloader. It groups much better than any slug gun I've ever seen much more consistently and for much less than $2.00-$4.00 per round.
Jim
Can't help but love those Ithaca Deerslayers. They are truly classic guns.
As I was sitting at the edge of a plowed field watching my Father moving in from my left on a nice buck straight out in front of me, I remember the shot as if it just happened. A long yellow flame from his Winchester Model 12 and 200 yards away the buck drops! Don’t know what slug load he shot in it, but he shot it as if it was a rifle! He even had make shift sights to put on it during deer season.
I have a Model 11-87™ Sportsman® ShurShot™ Synthetic Turkey and with slugs it's a tack driver at 100 yards!
I shot my first buck with an antique stevens 12 ga. pumpkin slinger that, fully loaded, held 6 rounds.
I aimed at the heart lung area from 40 - 50 yards and hit the buck right behind the ears.
I eventually bought a browning A-5.
Well Douglas, at least you did not waste any good meat with that shot and he went down quick!! ;)
I got lucky once with my old (1961) Rem.870 with a slug,@just over 70 yds in the neck.
shotguns work great for deer. especially up close and personal like! but i also would not shoot at a deer at 200 yards with one. if the area was that open, i would use a rifle. if it was in a shotgun only area, we have the option of shooting a muzzle loader as well, and between the two i have, i would use the muzzle loader. now, if we could just use smokeless powder in our muzzle loaders during regular firearm season, that would be a real improvement.
I used to have a Mossberg 500AT 12 Ga that I hunted deer in NJ with, was a smoothbore with a Poly Choke, it liked Rotweil/Brenekke Slugs, which were expensive compared to regular foster type slugs but when groups go from a foot or more circle at 50 yds to under 6 inches I don't argue price. This is shooting with the slight notch in the receiver and a single bead up front too. I thought it was pretty good at the time as rifles were illegal for any hunting in NJ and "slug guns" were a very new thing then.
I loaded a slug in the chamber backed up by 2 rounds of 3" Magnum 000 Buck. Yes you were also limited to 3 rounds in the gun for deer, NJ sucks.
Douglas,
That reminds me of a friend of mine! Shot at a Buck in Archery season from about 75 Yds down an old logging road. He was standing broadside in the middle of the road and looking at him, knowing he was busted by the buck he decided to shoot for the heart/lung area and hope, and arrowed him right between the eyes! PURE LUCK! The deer dropped like a rock! One of those "Hail Mary" type shots that paid off. Had to chop the Skull open with a hatchet to get the broadhead out though. Luckily(?) it wasn't a "trophy" buck!
Bourj, That is still a dead deer!
I never heard the word "slug" to refer to anything other than a garden pest or a fake nickel until I moved out west. In WV a shotgun slug was called a "punkin ball"...
For all my delight in rifle shooting, the only deer I've shot so far has been with a 12 gauge slug in a "shotgun only unit". Didn't flinch or blink -- saw it hit the deer like a sledge hammer, knock it sideways and slam it to the ground. It was only a 50 yard shot and a little high -- but it was a "done deer".
The first time I stepped into the woods to deer hunt, was with my buddys 1100 Remington and a slug.Prior to opening day,I asked him what was the first thing I would notice on a deer,his reply,"A White tail."
My next question proved to be the un-doing of my first whitetail deer. "Where do I aim at?" He told me to take the Texas heart shot.
Sure enough,after falling asleep on my first hunt,I woke up to freshly fallen snow. I walked down to the creek bed to find a fresh set of tracks. I followed them into a thicket,and got caught-up in the vines and decided to vacate the entanglement.
After being liberated,I looked across the creek bed I had just crossed after my outdoors nap, and seen my first sign,the proverbial whitetail waving sayonara,bye-bye,I'm outta here.
After the 8-pointer threw up his "target" I swiftly pulled the trigger ... he folded up like an accordian. The slug entered his "Texas heart", and travelled up to the backbone, and ricocheted off of it, and caught a lung and his boiler room.
I was surprised how quick the slug proved to be so fatal,a 45-yard shot,with no tracking.
At 150 yds. you'd do well with that shotgun and load vs. whitetails. Perhaps i will look into a Deerslayer.
Slugs, and slug guns to shoot them in; have come a long way that's for sure. My first years deer hunting in our "Zone 3" in Michigan I use an old Mossberg pump with polychoke that I was lucky to hit a basketball at 20 yards with...it thew most slugs high 10 to 15 inches.
I carried mostly OO buck in it, and had to watch more then a few deer walk away unharmed from the limited range.
This pattern at 200yds is quite impressive, indeed!
Just finished a great range session. my Moss 500 put SST's and whitebox lightfields within a half inch of each other. They hold minute of vitals at 150 yards. this is a very good thing for me, with the hornady's superior proformance at long ranges it is good for when the deer runs after the first shot. it is more insurance than neccesity. some of the land i hunt is tight quarters if the deer runs to far i will loose him.
Zermoid,
Your friend sounds like one I have. He was always one of those lucky SOB's. He was archery hunting and had a deer moving straight away at 75 so he rainbows it and the damn arrow hit the deer right in the spine and dropped him.
As a slug hunter in Illinois, I can appreciate the accuracy of newer rifled guns, particularly because I've never had to shoot a smoothbore. Ha. I'm pretty happy with my 5" groups at 100yds with my rifled 870. Now I may have to take it out farther and see what happens, but I refuse to scope my shotgun as long as my eyes are good, so we'll see.
My old model 12 will shoot win.2 3/4" rifled slugs into about 3" at 40 yards and won't come close to the 3" mark with either Rem. or Fed. This is as far as I would shoot anyway but it's always nice to know what a particular gun will do. One of my friend has a scoped 20 ga. with a rifed bbl. and his groups at 100 yards are on the average of 2 1/2".
One interesting thing about the modern slugs and rifled barrels is they add a whole new dimension to the old "If you could only own one firearm, what would it be" debate. With a 12 gauge shotgun and a couple of barrels you can reasonably hunt anything from squirrels and birds to elk at 200 yards. Dangerous game? Back in the day, when tracking a wounded leopard, lion, or tiger, the wise hand would put aside his .470 and take up a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot. Stick an 18" smoothbore barrel on your 12 and you have everyone's favorite house gun. Shotgun ammo is bulky but that's about the only downside; anywhere you can buy ammo, you can buy 12 gauge. Also, you can get a very decent pump shotgun for half the cost of a good bolt gun, and it'll be lighter, handle better, and shoot faster to boot. Finally, as it is so UN-assault rifle-like, the 12 gauge shotgun will probably be the last gun Obama takes away from us. What do you think?
Never shot a deer with slugs from my shotgun; I've always used buckshot due to the swampiness where I hunt. 30 yards there is a long shot.
I did gain respect for pumps and slugs however when I was in law enforcement and we had to qualify with the shotgun.
The last course of fire was at the 50 yard line, 3 shots offhand and 2 kneeling. I was surprised at how well those shotguns shot the slugs; especially so when your job depended on it. I did not like those lightweight Ithacas however (Model 37's???). They were brutal on the shoulder. I always qualified with my Mossberg 500 and took it with me on duty.
Now, they are saying you can get un-imaginable accuracy out of slug guns and Remington is bragging about the accuracy of their new slugs. I never have had a slug gun but with the close range shooting I do and seeing how i do not like to track animals through the woods, it would probably make sense to invest in one.
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I used to have a Mossberg 500AT 12 Ga that I hunted deer in NJ with, was a smoothbore with a Poly Choke, it liked Rotweil/Brenekke Slugs, which were expensive compared to regular foster type slugs but when groups go from a foot or more circle at 50 yds to under 6 inches I don't argue price. This is shooting with the slight notch in the receiver and a single bead up front too. I thought it was pretty good at the time as rifles were illegal for any hunting in NJ and "slug guns" were a very new thing then.
I loaded a slug in the chamber backed up by 2 rounds of 3" Magnum 000 Buck. Yes you were also limited to 3 rounds in the gun for deer, NJ sucks.
As I was sitting at the edge of a plowed field watching my Father moving in from my left on a nice buck straight out in front of me, I remember the shot as if it just happened. A long yellow flame from his Winchester Model 12 and 200 yards away the buck drops! Don’t know what slug load he shot in it, but he shot it as if it was a rifle! He even had make shift sights to put on it during deer season.
I have a Model 11-87™ Sportsman® ShurShot™ Synthetic Turkey and with slugs it's a tack driver at 100 yards!
Douglas,
That reminds me of a friend of mine! Shot at a Buck in Archery season from about 75 Yds down an old logging road. He was standing broadside in the middle of the road and looking at him, knowing he was busted by the buck he decided to shoot for the heart/lung area and hope, and arrowed him right between the eyes! PURE LUCK! The deer dropped like a rock! One of those "Hail Mary" type shots that paid off. Had to chop the Skull open with a hatchet to get the broadhead out though. Luckily(?) it wasn't a "trophy" buck!
Bourj, That is still a dead deer!
I never heard the word "slug" to refer to anything other than a garden pest or a fake nickel until I moved out west. In WV a shotgun slug was called a "punkin ball"...
For all my delight in rifle shooting, the only deer I've shot so far has been with a 12 gauge slug in a "shotgun only unit". Didn't flinch or blink -- saw it hit the deer like a sledge hammer, knock it sideways and slam it to the ground. It was only a 50 yard shot and a little high -- but it was a "done deer".
The first time I stepped into the woods to deer hunt, was with my buddys 1100 Remington and a slug.Prior to opening day,I asked him what was the first thing I would notice on a deer,his reply,"A White tail."
My next question proved to be the un-doing of my first whitetail deer. "Where do I aim at?" He told me to take the Texas heart shot.
Sure enough,after falling asleep on my first hunt,I woke up to freshly fallen snow. I walked down to the creek bed to find a fresh set of tracks. I followed them into a thicket,and got caught-up in the vines and decided to vacate the entanglement.
After being liberated,I looked across the creek bed I had just crossed after my outdoors nap, and seen my first sign,the proverbial whitetail waving sayonara,bye-bye,I'm outta here.
After the 8-pointer threw up his "target" I swiftly pulled the trigger ... he folded up like an accordian. The slug entered his "Texas heart", and travelled up to the backbone, and ricocheted off of it, and caught a lung and his boiler room.
I was surprised how quick the slug proved to be so fatal,a 45-yard shot,with no tracking.
Slugs, and slug guns to shoot them in; have come a long way that's for sure. My first years deer hunting in our "Zone 3" in Michigan I use an old Mossberg pump with polychoke that I was lucky to hit a basketball at 20 yards with...it thew most slugs high 10 to 15 inches.
I carried mostly OO buck in it, and had to watch more then a few deer walk away unharmed from the limited range.
This pattern at 200yds is quite impressive, indeed!
Now, they are saying you can get un-imaginable accuracy out of slug guns and Remington is bragging about the accuracy of their new slugs. I never have had a slug gun but with the close range shooting I do and seeing how i do not like to track animals through the woods, it would probably make sense to invest in one.
Ha I would have never thought to look on the back and probably would have instantly thrown it away. That's one of those "good day" groups you get every now and then from some guns. Good stuff
I remember seeing the video on the Ithaca website of the guy making "tiny" groups at 200 with that gun. Very impressive. Almost bought one, but then realized than an NEF will do just about as well with the right slugs. Even knowing I could, I can't imagine shooting past 100 yards during shotgun season, I haven't even shot one that far yet. It's too thick where I hunt with slugs, and it's in the same spots I bowhunt, so short shots practically present themselves.
Shotguns with a load they like amaze me... I had a Sweet 16 that would shoot them like a rifle, I know it would have been a sin, but I've often wondered what it would have done with a scope on board.
And old roommate bought a Savage Model 94 in 20 GA, aquired a massive amount of old Winchester super speed paper hull slugs and proceded to amaze me with what the little pump gun and he could do. He still has the gun and he still ocassionally takes a deer with it.
The new slugs, especially the ones shot thru rifled barrels are amazing truly amazing. I will never brag about an old smoothbore I once owned that would shoot 1oz. slugs into 4" at 100 yards because I never had one! 50 yds was more like it.
While I know this group was @ 200 yards, most people who shoot slug guns are happy if their rifled slug gun consistently groups 4-5" @ 100 yards. If a person got that type of accuracy out of $2.00-$4.00 per round from their centerfire rifle they'd have a fit. Sluggers are happy....or @ least realistic.
I'll use a slug gun shooting fiocchi slugs for some of my deer hunting when the shots are going to be pretty close (75 yards or under). The fiocchi's cost me .80 cents per round. If I'm going to hunt where shots may be potentially longer, I'll carry my muzzleloader. It groups much better than any slug gun I've ever seen much more consistently and for much less than $2.00-$4.00 per round.
Jim
Can't help but love those Ithaca Deerslayers. They are truly classic guns.
I shot my first buck with an antique stevens 12 ga. pumpkin slinger that, fully loaded, held 6 rounds.
I aimed at the heart lung area from 40 - 50 yards and hit the buck right behind the ears.
I eventually bought a browning A-5.
shotguns work great for deer. especially up close and personal like! but i also would not shoot at a deer at 200 yards with one. if the area was that open, i would use a rifle. if it was in a shotgun only area, we have the option of shooting a muzzle loader as well, and between the two i have, i would use the muzzle loader. now, if we could just use smokeless powder in our muzzle loaders during regular firearm season, that would be a real improvement.
At 150 yds. you'd do well with that shotgun and load vs. whitetails. Perhaps i will look into a Deerslayer.
Just finished a great range session. my Moss 500 put SST's and whitebox lightfields within a half inch of each other. They hold minute of vitals at 150 yards. this is a very good thing for me, with the hornady's superior proformance at long ranges it is good for when the deer runs after the first shot. it is more insurance than neccesity. some of the land i hunt is tight quarters if the deer runs to far i will loose him.
Zermoid,
Your friend sounds like one I have. He was always one of those lucky SOB's. He was archery hunting and had a deer moving straight away at 75 so he rainbows it and the damn arrow hit the deer right in the spine and dropped him.
As a slug hunter in Illinois, I can appreciate the accuracy of newer rifled guns, particularly because I've never had to shoot a smoothbore. Ha. I'm pretty happy with my 5" groups at 100yds with my rifled 870. Now I may have to take it out farther and see what happens, but I refuse to scope my shotgun as long as my eyes are good, so we'll see.
My old model 12 will shoot win.2 3/4" rifled slugs into about 3" at 40 yards and won't come close to the 3" mark with either Rem. or Fed. This is as far as I would shoot anyway but it's always nice to know what a particular gun will do. One of my friend has a scoped 20 ga. with a rifed bbl. and his groups at 100 yards are on the average of 2 1/2".
One interesting thing about the modern slugs and rifled barrels is they add a whole new dimension to the old "If you could only own one firearm, what would it be" debate. With a 12 gauge shotgun and a couple of barrels you can reasonably hunt anything from squirrels and birds to elk at 200 yards. Dangerous game? Back in the day, when tracking a wounded leopard, lion, or tiger, the wise hand would put aside his .470 and take up a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot. Stick an 18" smoothbore barrel on your 12 and you have everyone's favorite house gun. Shotgun ammo is bulky but that's about the only downside; anywhere you can buy ammo, you can buy 12 gauge. Also, you can get a very decent pump shotgun for half the cost of a good bolt gun, and it'll be lighter, handle better, and shoot faster to boot. Finally, as it is so UN-assault rifle-like, the 12 gauge shotgun will probably be the last gun Obama takes away from us. What do you think?
Never shot a deer with slugs from my shotgun; I've always used buckshot due to the swampiness where I hunt. 30 yards there is a long shot.
I did gain respect for pumps and slugs however when I was in law enforcement and we had to qualify with the shotgun.
The last course of fire was at the 50 yard line, 3 shots offhand and 2 kneeling. I was surprised at how well those shotguns shot the slugs; especially so when your job depended on it. I did not like those lightweight Ithacas however (Model 37's???). They were brutal on the shoulder. I always qualified with my Mossberg 500 and took it with me on duty.
Well Douglas, at least you did not waste any good meat with that shot and he went down quick!! ;)
I got lucky once with my old (1961) Rem.870 with a slug,@just over 70 yds in the neck.
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