In the video the one guy is talking about a compensatory rebound effect...Is this something I have never heard of or is that guy just full of crap?

Don't get me started. Something similiar happened at a city owned property less than a block from my house. I woke up one morning to police cars and news reporters on the street right outside my front door. The hunt went on but not enough deer were removed. There were a half a dozen real nice bucks and one true trophy. Long story short the local activists found what they thought was a great way to save the deer. Some guy volunteered to capture the deer and release them in his private "nature preserve". The guy came and captured the deer. But according to the local newspaper his "nature preserve" turned out to be a high fence, pay for your trophy, hunting operation. Sweet justice. The local activists have been pretty quiet since then.

If a wildlife biologist say there are 8 txs more deer on the land than it can hold and they need to be culled, where's the agruement?

It's a shame they are limiting the hunters to off duty police officers.

As for the arguement presented by the anti's. I haven't a clue what that guy was talking about. Compensatory?

Would they have the same response if those were feral pigs in their parks and back yards? Well, maybe ... would probably claim they have higher mental abilities than dogs and try to set up an adoption campaign. Completely out of touch with nature.

The billboard is obscene. Using a spotted fawn and a semi-auto handgun goes way beyond misleading--it's outrageous.

Very typical of the anti's... Never let the TRUTH get in the way.
I thought Kansas City was full of meat eaters. Note to self, where not to visit

I live in the KC area and actually heard one lady claim that the deer would rather get CWD than die a slow painful death at the hands of an archer who may or may not be able to execute an ethical kill shot. these people are out of touch with reality. the swift death at the hands of a sportsman would beat wasting away with disease any day. maybe if we name a disease after them (swine flu, mad cow, bird flu, etc.) people will want them out of their way ASAP.

Now that these freaks lost the battle with the wolves in the rocky mountains they are off to Kansas. I'm just glad there gone from my state, heard they could really use environmentalists in Antarctica. I think the deer hunts are unregulated there, killing fawns with howitzers and everything. I would donate a slow leaking canoe to the effort.

I think its kinda comical, that billboard in Kansas City, If that was a angus calf instead of the fawn they'd all be saying MMMM Veal!!!! Hey hows the wolf hunts going? How come no more coverage on them???

So here's the "master plan" from the fledgling radical animal rights group kc bite club. http://biteclubkc.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/slaughter/ it involves setting up a pen in 10-50 acres of the park and putting 375 deer in there and feeding the deer in the pen while sterilizing them. If 1200 acres isn't enough for 400 deer, why would 50 acres be enough for 375? ridiculous. the plan also includes setting up a viewing area and charging people to look at the deer. this "humane, cost effective plan" is equal to putting the herd in a zoo. wonder how they feel about zoos?

So much for truth in advertising.

buckhunter I'm dry heaving right there with you.. what a joke.. in that article they claim they have proved the CRE, as well as proved that the city of Pepper Pike is on a mission to endlessly kill all of the animals. There are two enormous faults in both of those claims. 1st, their proof of CRE. Note how from the time the city culled off the population from 31/sq. mi. to 19/sq. mi. a year passes in their records before cull #2. According to their CRE claim, the population would then be right back up to 31 (OR EVEN HIGHER!!) Not so much. The next year, they are still going after the 19 to try and get it down to their 13 mark they originally set out. The first cull killed off 133 deer (falling short of their mark) so the next year the mayor calls out for a quota of 45. These morons of opponents to the cull don't even have numbers to see if they met the quota and they just complain they're killing endlessly. Long story short they throw out all this fact based info that they're going to use to prove there is so much wrong being done, and in the end they trail off, forgetting what they were complaining about, don't provide any hard fast results, and just say they were right all along and everyone should hate the people involved.. STUPIDITY!!

Newenglandcharters, I agree a .45 would do the job out to about 30 yards assuming someone can shoot it that accurately. I myself shoot a smith 629 .44mag with a 8inch barrel and can shoot 4x's the groups as my best shooting semi auto (beretta 92). My point was they could have shown a bow, bolt action rifle or shotgun which are far and above more popular choices than a semi-auto pistol for deer. They pictured that pistol because many uniformed folks would associate that kind of weapon with gang banging cop killing thugs.

I live 10 miles from the park and have been there many times. You wouldn't believe the number of deer. There is a browse line everywhere you look.
Last night on the local news they covered a meeting of the park board. Lots of idiots showed up to protest and one rather effiminate looking young man was thrown out. It was mostly young women. One even had red paint all over her face and neck. Guess it was supposed to look like blood. Anything the loons come up with is covered by the local state run media.
The approved plan is to have sharpshooters take out a percentage of the herd then allow bowhunters in. That of course is bassackwards to what it should be. The shooting will educate the deer and make bowhunting more difficult.

Atleast if they're gonna put up a picture of a deer and gun they should put a rifle or shotgun and an adult deer. Once again this shows their ignorance. It's illegal to kill spotted fawns and I don't know anyone that uses a semi automatic pistol with the maximum effective range of 50 meters. I like the 3 blood spots it adds dramatic effect.

Hmmm Stop the slaughter of deer? I guess they've never seen a starving herd or animal or one ravaged with disease.
What about the crop damage from population explosion?
What about the vehicle/deer collisions if anything thats an inhumane way to go.

This is another reason wildlife / hunter education needs to be mandatory in school.

So many good thoughts... I guess what this comes down to is that a significant portion of Americans have contracted a case of terminal stupidity.
It must be contageous amongst urban dwelling people that have nothing truly important to focus their time and energy on.
Perhaps awareness should be drawn to the fact that millions of children in the United States go to bed each night with not enough food in their stomachs, let alone the number in other countries around the world. Maybe someone could convince these chronically ignorant louts that if we harvest some deer, we can keep the deer herds from starving to death and donate a good portion of the venison to feed underpriveleged families.
But "stupid is as stupid does," Forrest Gump would put it like that, I think...

thats how smart the antis are how many people do you see shooting a fawn as high as yours knees with spots all over it be alot of meat on that wouldnt there be now

dont these lettuce eaters know that lettuce has a heart

Here's what we should do. Gather up all the anti hunting fanatics and put them in a building. Only let them breed with each other. then, after a decade or so of inbreeding, open up the building and see what the effects have been.

I guess these people have never heard of genetics. It is common sense that deer that are allowed to overpopulate any area eventually inbreed until disease and deformation start occurring regularly. Wildlife biologists will agree that effective deer management requires killing a certain number of deer every year.

The anti's not likely to come to a logical conclusion because they are already at their own FUBAR logical conclusion. I'm pretty sure most of the people have no idea what animals in the wild are really like. There are probably a few, but most are part of the group and have bought into their own groupthink. Since that is the only view they are open to it just gets reinforced that much more.

We're perceived as 'snuffing out Bambi and Thumper' so we have no credibility in their eyes.

FWIW the gun on the billboard looks like someone grafted a Beretta triggerguard onto a 1911 - just some dumb clipart from somewhere.

How many people on here hunt with a semi-auto handgun on a regular basis. Putting the handgun on the billboard shows how dumb the anti-hunters are.

Give them a year or two when the deer population explodes, cars start hitting deer and causing fatal accidents, parasites and damage to property costing countless of thousands of dollars to the community.

Not of small car vs deer but some of midsize and trucks vs deer can be found on google. Not pretty!

I don't understand these so called animal rights peaple and their extreme b.s.

They must all live in the city in the same apartment complex feedin the rats and roaches because trapping the disease ridden critters is inhumane.
All those organizations need to move to somewhere in south america or an uninhabited island on the Aluetion chain with no guns, fishin poles or any other type hunting/fishing device. Alocation that has Grizzlies or big cats and gators + some game animals. BTW it's remot so no stores or cars etc. No Air strips either so theres no chance of em gettin out of there.

This kinda crap angers me to no end! Here in AR the state and or city of Hot Springs Village just allowed a hunt inside the limits. This was or is to control the exploding population.Sorry if my details are sketchy but I just saw a blurb in the local news. No rukus raised or nothin. Thank goodness. The people that put up billboards such as this(my opinion)have a mental defect. Guess they can go pick a cheesebuger off the cheese burger tree.Why can they not understand the concept of fairchase? I love beef but I never saw a cow that had a sporting chance. If they are vegans, never met one that wasnt pasty and sickly lookin.Ok, maybe I'm gettin a little stereotypical. I have aquaitances of both ilk, vegatararians not so bad, vegans nut cases. The Vegan feels the same about me. So we can agree to disagree.The vegan I know would not put up a billboard so I can tolerate him. Runnin on a bit here. Guess the bottom line is true sportsmen would not resort to such tactics and tha makes me PROUD!!!

They need to have a regular lottery for tags so anyone who archery hunts can get one. Then everyone who is successful should take a picture of the deer and themselves with their bows. Then at the end of each year they should put all these pictures on a sign next to this one that has written in big letters, (Help manage your wildlife, eat deer!!!). That would be hilarious and prove the point quite well.

Options:

- Shoot them

- Bring back wolves

- Watch a zillion mangy, starving deer die of disease and spread it elsewhere

Hmm...

Its really unfortunate that due to all the flack they would get, they are unable to offer these hunts to paying sportsmen/women that would line up for these hunts and put the meat on their tables. Instead they are paying the local cops to go out there and cull the herd.

Why not let bowhunters thin the heard with extended permit type bowhunts. They could open an extended hunt to X amount of hunters with no limit, and the meat could be used by those hunters and donated as well. I dont like the idea of the cops getting to kill all of the deer. I think the local bowhunters should be given a chance. Also, the people that live against the track of land should be able to harvest the deer in their yards with a bow if they would like.

Where do you suppose all these deer come from? Because Kanasas too busy with their food plot to build large antlered deer and plenty of food availablity means more fawn births as well. Where there are killing in another town over the deer will start seeking shelter where there is no killing. Its because of the hunting industry we have so many deer for the hunting industry so busy with female reproductive system to ensure fawn birth mainly the males for "recruits" as they call it. What happenning in Shawnee park is the end result and out of towns desperation they mass kill the deer even the fawns as if they were nothing more then mere objects. The hunting industry should know about compensatory rebound effect and maybe they do and their plans are to "restart" fresh and hoping more fawn birth thus more male birth too.

A quote fro QDM (your disgsuting people)

"By keeping the deer population below the carrying
capacity of the available habitat, more forage (nutrition) is
available per deer. Thus, does are healthier, reproductive
success is higher and more does are able to carry two
fawns. Ironically, this can result in a greater deer harvest
each year. Depending on the relationship of the population
and the carrying capacity, an “optimum sustained
yield” can be achieved where a relatively high reproductive
rate allows an abundant harvest each fall. With highquality
habitat and increased nutrition, the percentage of
doe fawns that breed their fi rst fall increases (sometimes
up to 25 percent). Also, a higher percentage of yearling
does produce two fawns instead of one. Because fawns
are born at approximately a 1:1 sex ratio, more bucks may
be born each year. Therefore, in some areas, you actually
can increase the number of bucks born by shooting more
does."

The non-killing public should know once this lethal mass slaughter of deer is implemented there will be a never ending deer problems and of course excuses for killing every year after year which is good for the killing industry.

About the deer carcass to the pantries -You are all so pro-slaughter then you take the slaughered bodies and eat the meat and not dump carcass that are non-usda inspected and potential risk of CWD and other underlying diseases the pantries. The pantries are an easy way for the wildlife serial killers to kill more deer because its easy to "give" what you don't want. .

The hunting cause nothing but pain and suffering over and over again because lowlife scums with the mind of serial killers need to have their thrill kill. I hope they do start the DAA and maybe Kanasas will be the first of many states and counties to take up non-lethal options and live in more civilized society.

Ms. Caroline TC,
Respectfully,

QDM didn't make the park, or the city habitat that these deer are occupying. Why don't you heap some blame on the urban sprawl and people feeding the deer, and the uncontrolled population circumstances. Better yet lets call in a nuke strike and take out the whole town. Problem solved.

OK you see my last statement was not logical. Likewise you are taking stuff out of context from a guide for a different wildlife setting and trying to tie this circumstance to it -NOT LOGICAL EITHER.

You are yapping about the problem. Why don't you put forward a SOLUTION to the problem. Nobody here on this thread created or wanted this problem. What is the cost of your solution? You have already assumed we all have no heart and are thugs. I think everyone here is about solving it (the problem).

How about instead of spending money on billboards STFU and DO SOMETHING. It sure sounds like to me you think this problem should be solved by....somebody else besides yourself.

Reality Math Lesson #1:

Around here a billboard like that(in a high traffic area) costs about $3500/mo. with a 12 month contract plus artwork/setup cost. I bet one in KC costs a bit more than that....

OK math lesson:
12x 3500= um....carry the 1..... that's $42000. Add another $1000 for art/setup....$43,000

Y'all spent $43K (minimum) on trying to make hunters out to be killers, when that kind of money could have gone to feed hungry people (or do other worthy things) and would do immense amounts of good. You have no moral leg to stand on. You can't even feed human beings much less deal with deer in the park.

What have you to say for yourselves? You'd rather people starve than deer? Go get back in your Subaru with the rainbow sticker and dreamcatcher on the rear- view-mirror and drive your sorry keesters back to Shametown.

When you develop a logical argument that is fact-based we can chat again. You are dismissed. Go play in the park with the deer.

dear caroline tc... welcome to free speech. unless your posts become vulgar chances are that your "logic" will remain for all to see- unlike my posts to biteclub... if you should happen to question any part of their plan or claims your speech will be censored... perhaps you could tell me, caroline, there was a claim that it takes an average of seventeen arrows to bring down a deer. do you have access to the evidence of this? better yet, introduce me to the hunter that could manage to get seventeen arrows into a deer... i want to shake that hunter's hand...truly an incredible feat.

The "17 arrow" comment is this..

"Statistics gathered since the 1970s show that the non-lethal wounding rate of bow-hunting is around 50%, and that to kill one deer, an average of 17 arrows would have been shot, most hitting non-vital parts of the deer (anywhere but the chest), or missing altogether. "

I think you know what he meant.

There is enough wounding and crippling from bowhunting and we know that bowhunted deer death is never "quick" that is why in bowhunting manual they are required to wait the minimum of 30-45 min before tracking the deer Yup Bubbahs are up on the tree stand doing high fives as deer is suffering and drowing in their own blood. I have even watched videos of bowhunting and heard the bowkillers say "we should give it time" so "time" for what? Time for the animals to "lay up and die"? How cold hearted and cruel can you all be?!

caroline, consider this, we humans have survived through 6 major extinction events throughout time. supervolcanoes and meteorstrikes etc. all destroying bout 95% of all life on this planet, creating immense duststorms in the atmosphere in some cases that would block out sunlight for years. in those cases all plantlife died. only the seeds lived to replenish the earth when the dust settled, and what do u think your ancient ancestors ate then when waiting for the dust to settle?? the only available food to them at the time. meat! All living humans today r alive cos our ancestors ate meat to survive, and so would u if u wanted to live in such a situation..
So get off your moral high horse and get real..
peace;)

CarolineTC: 1st of All GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
This billboard is NOT a real representation of hunters!
NOT all hunters bait or grow food plots.
Not all hunters go out in the woods with camera crews and hi five each other in a treestand.
Most hunters try to make a kill as clean and humane as possible.
Stop watchin the idiot box obviuosly it's affecting you.
You must hang out with your PETS, HSUS and ASPCA buddies and dream up all kinds of lies and misguided BS.
Why don't you take a Hunters education course, read up on bovine tb, anthrax, hoof and mouth, cwd, mad cow disease and herd starvation.
Let me guess you've never watched the discovery channel and seen crocs gators, hyenas, wolves or lions make a kill or turtles or predatory fish like pike, sharks etc. Those animals they kill die while being consumed, they die from shock and blood loss while the animal is eating them ALIVE! but in your eyes that's just nature and its humane for them to do it. But a man or woman putting an arrow or bullet in the heart, lung(s) or brains of and animal ensuring a quick and humane as possible kill is unethical.
Let me guess you've never been to a slaughter house either? But you wear leather, carry a leather purse, use makeup, and I'll bet you eat fish, crustaceans (shrimp, crab, lobster), beef, pork and or chicken and of course eggs.
What a hypacrite you are! You judge us yet you wont take a hard look in the mirror.

You ever see a deer or any animal starving?
You ever see an animal get hit by a car?
Let me guess you tend to close your eyes and pretend it's not there.
Get off your high horse and do some real research. Alot has changed since the 1970's.

I've actually seen does with triplets have you caroline? have you ever watched a deer in the woods, herard a buck snort, weaze or grunt or even rub a tree? Have you ever seen one use a lickin stick? have you ever walked up on a bedded buck? Have you ever listened to a squirrel bark and watched them play or run up and down trees? Have you ever had a deer walk up on you? Have you ever had a squirrel eating acorns on a limb right next to you in a tree? have you had a hawk fly overhead while walkin thru the woods? Have you heard wild boar rooting in the woods? Have you been close enough to touch a moose?
Have you watched a covey of quail? Have you ever watched turkey or grouse strut and strum? Have you called in a quail, deer or anything other than an pizza? Do you even know what I'm talking about?
I have. I've also helped improve wildlife habitat by planting trees, native berry plants, and built bird houses and supporting the NWTF, Ducks Unlimited and other conservation programs. My tax dollars license fees and time go into wildlife habitat improvement and protection.
I've turned in personnel with guns that shot out of their vehicle. I've helped farmers who were suffering from crop damage by deer. Crops meant to feed people like you that are dependant on everyone else. Crops that are used to make pet foods, makeups, oils, soy milk etc.

HAVE YOU ? What have you done for your fellow man/woman?

Caroline people like you are what's wrong with this country. You're selfish and dependant on others and let misguided ideals and altered facts from organizations that like you are dependant on others yet won't lift a hand to help anyone else. These organizations do their thinking for you and you utter their sludge thru your pie hole. That's a shame you seem like an educated person
with alot more to learn.

Anyone else agree or disagree?

I don't bait, grow a food plot, trophy hunt or think of hunting as a sport. I take offense to that ideology.
I also don't kill fawns or for pleasure.

Let me tell you one thing I go out in the woods to escape idiots. I kill to eat. I hunt because it takes my mind off things I've seen while serving my country. I enjoy watching wildlife and doing what I can to preserve and conserve it and my rights. I don't always kill when I do go out into the woods either that's just part of life.

You go on believin what you do and sittin on your couch eating animal by products not knowing where it came from if it were electricuted, stunned or whatever they do in slaughter houses these days.

BTW caroline you're a contributing factor to these deer and their current situation:
How you might ask. I'm guessing you live in the city or subburbs? How many acres of land was deforrested to make room for you and your city friends? How much shore line on a river, stream, ocean or other water source was impacted by your metropolis? How many species of wildlife went extinct in your area (city limits)? How many were pushed out into highways to be hit by cars? How many were pushed out into larger groups to spread diseases they weren't immune to? How many? How much sewer sludge from your city/subburb flows into streams, rivers and eventually to the ocean doing far greater damage than one hunter? Because your city affects every man woman child, animal plant and water source.

You like facts those are facts. You want truth that's a truth, You want more keep comin up with your nonsense

CarolineTC
You must be the most ignorant person I have ever seen babble. Youtube is not a source of truth!! I have been to packing houses more than once, and my grandparents own a private locker. I am a rancher, hunter, ag specialist, and conservationist. I have learned from life, school and commen sense. It is human nature to eat the best tasting food, which is meat. You don't have to eat meat but I do. Take your bs and try telling someone else what to do. I hunt deer, antelope, pheasant, grouse and elk. I eat them all, and I shoot more than just males. I am a trophy hunter, but everything I take is a trophy to me whether it is an mature doe, or buck. I make my living with agriculture as I raise wheat and cattle. I can tell you right now that if everyone only ate the way vegans do there would be a lot less food to go around. There wouldn't be enough for everyone and more people would go hungry. You will argue that the ground that we use for animals could be used for vegetables and other plant crops for human consumption, but you would be wrong. Most of our ground that is pasture is pasture because it can't be farmed. You are unethical in your opinions, and are drinking too much liberal coolaid. Go eat your rice patty and be grateful you have food to eat.

CarolineTC
You must be the most ignorant person I have ever seen babble. Youtube is not a source of truth!!
Youtube have plenty of truth as well as pleny of BS.
"I have been to packing houses more than once, and my grandparents own a private locker. I am a rancher, hunter, ag specialist, and conservationist. I have learned from life, school and commen sense. "
And?
"It is human nature to eat the best tasting food, which is meat. "
Try eating that venison without the marinating, seasoning etc. In fact why dont you all eat it right after the kill while the body is still warm just like true carnivores does where there maybe some nutrient left, but nooooo, man not only eat when the body is beyond dead and start of putrification but they cook it on top of it and they claim to be "natural" meat eaters lol.
"You don't have to eat meat but I do. Take your bs and try telling someone else what to do."

Who says this is about eating meat? Where do you get that idea from? My fight is about sports killing and the lies of the wildlife killing industry

"I hunt deer, antelope, pheasant, grouse and elk. I eat them all, and I shoot more than just males."
Trying to collect as many bad karma as possible? lol
"I am a trophy hunter, but everything I take is a trophy to me whether it is an mature doe, or buck. "
Oh how "poetic" lol
"I make my living with agriculture as I raise wheat and cattle. I can tell you right now that if everyone only ate the way vegans do there would be a lot less food to go around. "
Let me ask you somthing, what does your cow eat?
"There wouldn't be enough for everyone and more people would go hungry."
Again what does your cow eat?

"You are unethical in your opinions, and are drinking too much liberal coolaid. Go eat your rice patty and be grateful you have food to eat."
Your comment was so full of Poo lol

"BTW your facts once again are wrong We dont use rendered animal parts in feed for wildlife. Mad cow disease came from man feeding cows to cows. Man supplemented livestock (bovine, swine, poultry)feed with animal by products."

CWD was first spread by supplement feeding rendered animals for protein (antler and herd growth) . Comments about CWD from From Organic Consumer Association.

"As you can see by reading this article [below] in this afternoon's Capital Times of Madison, word is slowly leaking out about what has apparently been a massive decade-long feeding of "supplements" (including meat and bone meal as mineral and protein) to wild deer in the heart of the "kill zone," the area of the WI Chronic Wasting Disease outbreak.

Apparently no one in the CWD research community has ever investigated the possibility that CWD may be spreading via rendered feed (mineral, fat and protein supplements), as happened in Britain with mad cow disease. This needs to be investigated immediately as a possible third means of infection for CWD, along with suspected animal-to-animal transmission and environmental contamination."

As you can see from the excerpts of two books below on feeding wild deer, there has been a huge push over the past 10-15 years of supplemental feeding of both game farmed elk and deer and wild deer to grow bigger animals with huge-boned antlers.

And guess what ? The killing industry is still using supplement feeding not necessaryly rendered animals anymore but still they are using supplement which can congregate deer thus spread wildlife diseases including blue tongue and CWD and whats worse is that the "deer management" website maks excuse as to why its "ok".

"One thing to keep in mind: Deer are likely to concetrate somewhere - whether it be a water source, food source, bedding area, or travel corridor. Although providing supplemental food will concetrate deer, I suspect that if a disease or virus is present the pathogen will be passed on regardless of whether or not you provide supplemental feed."

The rest of your comment sounds like bunch of defensive rambling lol

Carolinetc your an ignorant person.

Oh really caroline?? and if so where did the grand canyon come from??:P and meat has been a part of our diet for a very very long time, or didnt u know that chimps organize hunting parties and hunt kill and eat lesser apes?? allways instigated by pregnant females in the herd needing more protein in theire diet and by massaging the males egos by manipulation with sex the men then organise hunting parties..
And i would think i know alot more than u do about coservation of wildlife since thats what im educated in, but i will consede to this point, we probably eat more meat than we need right now since our meatconsumtion has like quadrupled since the 50`s, but to leave it out alltogether would be hazardous to your health both short and longterm, and what would u consider more cruel, keeping an animal trapped throughouth its life in small enclosures, stressing the animal and treating it roughly and never giving it freedom, or let a wild animal live free withouth contact with humans for its entire lifetime and then inflicting 30 seconds of shock and trauma, as compared with the natural way of dying being ripped appart by a predator or dying slowly of painfull illness??
I know u r probably trying to do good, but its horribly uneducated the propaganda u spew forth and no one that actually knows how the natural world works is ever ever gonna take u serious.. and because of that u r never gonna make a difference to the people actually taking care of theire natural habitat, and thats hunters belive it or not, we dont kill for sports etc. but to preserve our knowledge of harvesting from nature by its own terms and to eat natural meat full of richness and taste..

btw watch the animated film "free jimmy!" ;)

To: Silly vegan woman (if you really are even a woman)

Why don't you tag out and send in someone with the real A GAME?????? Your comments and ramblings are probably boring even to your cohorts. They are for sure drier than a popcorn fart to me. If you had the brain power to condense and sharpen your arguments, and form a cohesive thought (instead of regurgitating a publication or a website out of context) you would gain at least a small amount of respect from myself and others here.

Speak whats in that little vegan heart of yours and drop the talking points. You will instantly sound 3x more intelligent, if not more honest.

You are probably making copies of all these exchanges so that you can prove to each other how truly barbaric we are. I doubt if there are that many of you who are true hard-core kool-aid drinkers. Most, if not some are just hangers-on. I would wager that you have some folks at some college you have recruited and a few other folks that are sympathetic to your group. You are probably more of a social group than you are an actual organization that does something. I'd even bet that the vegan/animal rights/karma/wicca/tofu/whatever fest y'all have is just an excuse for socializing. You need a cause to unite, if you even are that united. Hate for the barbarians is more of a focal point than the deer in the park. I would bet the deed to my family's farm that those deer will never see an improvement of their circumstances from any of your (or your group's) actions.

We, as sportsmen & sportswomen, have a track record and can show results where animals have been brought back, populations strengthened, and habitats improved. Those are indisputable facts.

Show us some of your results. Not talking points. Not bluster. Pure results.