If whatever you are casting could just as soon be found on an ultralight spinning rod (with a little extra weight or heavier model), it's not flyfishing. The fish doesn't care what hardware you're using to cast with, it cares about the lure/fly, and that's where the distinction should be made, not "But I'm casting it with a flyrod, so I'm flyfishing." To me, flyfishing is defined by an artificial fly handcrafted at the end of the line. I hesitate to say of only natural materials because tinsel, piping, etc. are legitimate materials...as long as they are incorperated with the same hands on technique as fur and feathers. However, whenever a lure is molded from plastic or metal (ie. spoons, spinners), or you're casting salted minnows or powerbait, you've left the realm of flyfishing.

I'd say that it's still fly fishing, It's just kinda trashy.

I don't want to, nor do I think it's wise to go down the road of defining something in the terms of a=b so long as b does not include c, d, e, and f and so long as it does include g, h, and i, unless d and i are used while c and a are not and so long as the combination of j, k, l, and m = b or c.

None of the major dictionaries do "fly fishing" justice (nor really does this definition following) but I have seen it in fishing dictionaries defined as: a Fishing Discipline which makes use of artificial lures resembling flies, insects, or fish. Aside from the use of artificial flies, what makes it different from other Fishing Disciplines is the fact that in Fly Fishing, the angler casts the Fishing Line, and not the Fishing Lure.

That being said, I don't see anything wrong with one saying that casting that hunk with a fly rod and fly line is not fly fishing.

I don't care for the argument of "If whatever you are casting could just as soon be found on an ultralight spinning rod then it isn't fly fishing". It leaves the window open too far. I've used flies on a spinning rod to catch small brim with my nephew. Does that then mean that no one can actually be fly-fishing because I can fish with flies on a spinning rod.

As far as "had nothing added to it that would impart action in the water", i've seen things used by popular fly fisherman like the muddler minnow that is tied to impart motion with hair or even sometimes foam (also trashy).

I've also used and it is very popular to use a small plastic spoon fly when fly-fishing for redfish. I still think that when I'm doing this, I'm fly fishing.

Every great and noble thing at some point is bastardized by something else. And when that happens we try to say it isn't the same thing by definition. Is a low-rider not a truck because it can't get through a small puddle? No, it's still a truck, just a trashy one. Is My church not a church because they don't think communion should be taken every week or because they are okay with drinking? No, it's still a church, maybe we're just a little trashier.

I think the key is to not let that define who YOU are as a fisherman. I love the statement: "Flyfishing--to me, at least--has always been a triumph of art over expediency". I could not agree more. That is what I strive for when I tie and when I fish. Get caught up in that, and not in what the trashier folks are doing, and you give the sport a good name. Let who we are define the sport.

P.S. I will add that I will never use that hunk as a fly while I'm fishing.

Adding to Merwin... Fly fishing is an art. It is the art of making artificial "flies" look real enough to a fish that the fish is fooled into biting them. The hardest part of this art is its simplicity. Flies do not have artificial motion and are directed by the line and water, not the other way around. Not to go too purist, but "nobody who did not know how to properly catch a fish should be allowed to disgrace the fish by catching it."

Bead head nymph = fancy little jig?

hey, im not a flyfisherman (yet), but that is a darn good idea to present little plugs accurately, and with some distance. i may not be flyfishing, but i will have a flyrod with me next time i go out. thanks, im always looking for new ideas.

hey, im not a flyfisherman (yet), but that is a darn good idea to present little plugs accurately, and with some distance. i may not be flyfishing, but i will have a flyrod with me next time i go out. thanks, im always looking for new ideas.

Who ever called a spinner an angler/fisherman. Bait is bait all it is flavor, scent, attractents, barbs, treble hooks and infused plastic. Should never be confused with an angler/flyfishing.

the only thing I'll say about this discussions is this...."To each its own". One man's definition of flyfishing may not suit anothers, the important principal is the love of fishing and being in the outdoors.

I fish small streams. I use 4 lb test. My choice of attractant is a 1/24th or 1/16th oz. rooster tail and my rod is right at 5'. I still wear waders and read the water. Walk upstream and enjoy what mother nature has to offer, we are all brothers.

To stir the pot a bit on this, let me add this.

What about two piece flies that are joined together with a flexible hinge like wiggle-nymphs?

They certainly violate Lee Wulff's maxim about not adding something that would impart action in the water.

They add action, that's their whole point for being. So are they then not flies?

You could argue that popper's hard or semi-hard bodies do the same as the plastic lip on plug baits. So are they too not flies?

The technique of making fly bodies with UV light activated acrylic resins is damned similar to making a molded plug body, as is hand rolling a popper head out of polymer clay and baking it hard.

The more you sit down and really examine all the options we have as flyanglers today, the more you realize so much of what we call flies would be a tough sell to pass Lee Wulff's maxim.

So, what is fly fishing in light of this? I don't have any answers to that but I certainly admire the problem.